Coraggio Consulting
Albemarle County Board of Supervisors AC44 - Draft Transportation Chapter, Wednesday, May 28, 2025

Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2025
Place: Albemarle County Board of Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 2h 25m (video)
Official meeting video (Granicus): https://albemarle.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=1&clip_id=1364
Official agenda: https://albemarle.granicus.com/AgendaViewer.php?view_id=1&clip_id=1364

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-14. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:02] I am pleased to call to order this meeting to Albino County Dade Supervisors this 28th of May, 2 p.m. to 241 at our county office building. I'd like to note at the table we have Supervisor Mike Pruitt of the Scottsville District, Supervisor of the Peaceful Furtley of the Urbana District, Supervisor James McKeel of the Jack DeWitt District, Supervisor Ann Malick of the Whitewood District, myself, Jim Andrews, representing the Samuel Miller District.

[00:00:24] The quorum is present. We've got the absence of Supervisor Galloway today. We're also joined by our deputy county executives in law, Mr. Henry, thank you, Mr. Richardson, who's unable to attend today, Mr. Andy Herrick, our county attorney, is here, and Ms. Claudette Gorgerson, our clerk.

[00:00:45] Also, let me please welcome the Albemarle County Police Officer Present, Officers Shaka Choyner and Regina Ryan. Welcome. Thank you for being here, for your service here today, and your colleagues every day on behalf of the Bill of Albemarle County. And we have one major item on the agenda, which is a work session on the AC 44 draft transportation chapter. And I believe this is being on the table here, Tanya Swartzen-Druber, Deputy Director of Planning, I'm sorry, Kevin McDermott, Deputy Director of Planning, Tanya Swartzen-Druber, Planning Manager, sorry, I got that too quickly,

[00:01:24] and Bart Savota, Deputy Director of Community Development. You're welcome, and with others as needed. Thank you. Thank you. I am Tanya Swartzen-Druber, Planning Manager. I'm here to speak about the transportation chapter of the AC44 comprehensive plan.

[00:01:43] So just a quick agenda for today, we'll go through some community input themes, a summary of the PC feedback that we heard a couple of weeks ago, and then the chapter overview and an upcoming schedule.

[00:02:01] And as always, we have the focus topics slide that will show up at the end of the presentation as well. To start off, we heard a couple of things about transportation in the development areas, mainly about providing safe and comfortable infrastructure for all the modes, including sidewalks, cars, and bike lanes.

[00:02:29] That's separated from cars. Something else we heard is that transit needs to be frequent and reliable for those that are choosing transit over driving. Specifically related to driving and cars, we heard that we need to slow cars down and potentially reduce parking requirements to reduce the amount of space and impervious coverage for parking.

[00:03:00] There was a concern about traffic congestion and infrastructure keeping up with growth, as well as safety in general. For the rural area, a little bit different, but some similar themes.

[00:03:20] We'd like to explore and implement ways to make walking and biking in the rural area safer, both by small-scale improvements and potential improvements to the rural roads, like widening shoulders and adding signage.

[00:03:38] Additionally, increasing access to transit in the rural area, especially access to the urban area of the development area to serve daily needs for those that live and work out there. What we heard from PC specifically on development areas is there needs to be additional bike and pedestrian connectivity, not just, or sorry, in addition to bike and pedestrian connectivity, we should promote vehicular activity. And what this means is

[00:04:15] eliminating cul-de-sacs and dead ends so that you know cars can move more freely and have other choices other routes to get around um also we work we heard that we should consider completing a study to enhance um connections to the airport prioritize infrastructure investments and multimodal connections despite the funding challenges that we've all been hearing about at the federal level and then consider a recommendation to establish a parks and trail fund to support public space and greenways. Specifically in the rural area, what we heard

[00:04:55] was, as I mentioned before, expanding the rural road margins, which is that shoulder piece outside of the line markings for walking and biking along our major multimodal routes.

[00:05:11] And then we were asked to consider moving rural roads away from the floodplain where flooding occurs, or at least when roads are being laid out to really focus on keeping them out of the floodplain.

[00:05:29] And then we did have a bit of a focus on recreational users, specifically in the rural area. Really felt like this might imply that all the other users are lesser priority and they should be prioritized the same.

[00:05:44] I'm going to turn it over to Kevin, and he'll give you the chapter summary. Thanks, Tanya. To start off with, you might have noticed from Tanya's description about the feedback that we've been hearing is that there is a real distinct difference between the way we look at transportation in the development area and the way we look at it in the rural area.

[00:06:06] And so that's kind of a theme that you'll see as we move through the chapter, that there is a difference. We have different goals, different objectives, and different needs. Development lawyer chapters that you see here are different as well. So the development area, we see that high peak hour demand issue that really sort of turns out to be a little bit of congestion in the mornings and evenings, especially in the development area where people are living and working.

[00:06:35] There's a fragmented multimodal network and needed safety improvements to improve that multimodal network. So because of the way we've dealt with bicycle and pedestrian facilities over the years, you'll see a lot of breaks in that where we have new developments that are putting in those facilities, but the older developments don't have it, so it becomes a very fragmented system.

[00:06:59] There's limited funding and rising project costs in Albemarle County, and that's really prevalent in the development area because of the right-of-way issues we have there, because of the utilities, the conflicts of space that you have a little bit more in the development area than you do in the rural areas has become an issue there.

[00:07:19] Then the VDOT ownership of roadways. That means that we have to adhere to all the VDOT requirements for those roadways. They have a very strict process. It ends up taking more time to move through their process to get approvals. It ends up costing more. That's something that you see a lot in the development area.

[00:07:37] In the rural area, it's a little different. Safety really is the primary challenge that we have out there. Not to say safety isn't a problem in urban areas as well, but in the rural area, we have narrow winding roads, little clear zone. A lot of those roads don't meet the current standards for their roadways, too narrow, and don't have the sight lines that we would typically like to see.

[00:08:02] We also see a lot of wildlife collisions that we continue to keep an eye on in the rural area. Another challenge in the rural area is providing transit service to the aging population that we have out there. We know that there's a lot of need to get into the development area for people that may not be able to drive anymore, and we want to be cognizant of that.

[00:08:24] Also, we see a lot of biking and walking for recreation and exercise in the rural area, where the roads are a little bit easier to navigate, they're prettier. And that's not just the people that live in the rural area, but it's people that live in the urban area that want to get out and experience the beauty of the rural area, ride those roads or run those roads, so it creates a little bit of a conflict there in that use.

[00:08:52] So based on that, we've come up with two different goals, one for the development area and one for the rural area. In the development area, we want to create safe, comfortable, and accessible options for walking, biking, and transit.

[00:09:08] In the development area, obviously, the density that we see there really creates that use and makes it more worthwhile for us to build that multimodal network within the development area. And then in the rural areas, we're really focused more on the movement of goods, and that includes interstates and rural areas, and just being able to get people from the rural areas into the development areas.

[00:09:36] That's really our focus there, but to retain that rural area feel that we need to have. So our overall transportation planning strategy is to support the same land use strategies that we've outlined in the rural area and the development area land use chapters.

[00:09:59] So that includes acknowledging the growth management policy, which directs the future growth that we can into the development area. And recognizing that in the rural areas, we would like to see a less need for services, for transportation services out there.

[00:10:21] So we're going to focus on achieving that high-quality transportation network. And we recognize that this is going to take a long time and a lot of investment from both the public and private sector. future transportation planning can build on what we've included in this chapter that you have here and provide additional guidance. And we'll get into that a little bit more as we get into the objectives in this next slide, which is about multimodal transportation plans. So one of the primary recommendations that we have in this plan is to actually do a deeper dive into what we're

[00:10:59] terming a multimodal transportation plan for the county. We recognize we just don't have the time and the resources right now to get into all that kind of detail in the cop plan. The cop plan does is set up that high-level overview of where we want to go with transportation, but we want to use a multimodal transportation plan to really get into the details of that. It'll build on what you see here in the transportation chapter. It'll articulate a long-term strategy for transportation planning. That includes prioritizing projects based on the values that we see in the comprehensive

[00:11:35] plan. It'll integrate land use and transportation planning so that we know that our transportation proposals match the land use and zoning that we expect to see in the rural area and the development area. And then our recommendations are the same for that. So it'll also define typical cross sections for future roadway designs, then what this means is that we can set up sort of a standard baseline for what we'd like to see each of our roadways look like, what that cross section is, what the pedestrian and bike facilities are that are necessary on the different roads

[00:12:11] based on where they're located. It'll delineate that modal emphasis network. So we'll more specifically look at the routes based on where people want to go and where people and how they want to get there so if it's likely that people will be walking the areas we know that's our area we want to focus our pedestrian network or our transit network so really it'll define what that network looks like and then based on that identify the cross sections and then finally it'll prioritize projects based on the limited funding resources that we have and

[00:12:47] and other constraints. This is similar to what we've done in the past when we have done a prioritization process, but we'd like to set this up so that it's easily replicable over every three years or so and be able to run through a process where we look at all the projects that are coming in based on the values we see in the comp plan and then tell us what we should be investing our money in and what those next projects that we should be looking at are.

[00:13:16] So getting into the transportation objectives that you'll see here, I don't have to read all these, they're in your packet, but the development area we want to focus on is the development of transportation plans like that multimodal transportation plan that I talked about.

[00:13:37] Also, that would include things like our area plans or corridor plans that we do. That's really a focus to keep moving the projects forward. The second objective you see there is really focused on the bike ped network and how we want to build that out.

[00:13:54] The third one is about public transit and how we want to improve public transit and development area. The fourth is really focused on vehicular use, how we want to increase the efficiency of our vehicle use in the urban area. That's related to that challenge that I mentioned of the high peak hour demand. Number five is strengthening regional and inner city transportation. That includes highways, airports, rail, all that stuff. So those are the action steps that you'll see

[00:14:30] under that objective. The sixth one is focused on safety and improving safety. And the fourth is addressing our climate action policies. So then we get into the transportation objectives for the rural area. The first one really focuses on how we want to address the safety issues in the rural area for vehicular users. We say vehicle congestion, that wording may want to change a little bit because really we don't see a lot of vehicle congestion out there.

[00:15:04] What we want to focus on is safety just to get people into those urban areas. And then the second one, we also discussed a little bit of the language here with the planning commission. What we really want to say there is we want to provide access to transit services.

[00:15:20] What I don't want to imply by that objective is that we don't want to send fixed route transit service to route the rural area because that would just be a lot of wasted resources. Some people aren't using it, but we want to direct people to those areas where they can get transit services.

[00:15:37] So this may be building on things like the Afton Express or our connect routes that John operates and making sure they have a few designated places they can stop in the rural area to get people into the urban areas and reliance on park and rides and bus stops for that out there.

[00:15:58] The third one is the safety element in the rural area. The one thing that's consistent between the development area and the rural area is that need for safety improvements. And then finally, number four there is improving rural area community members' access to walking and bicycle opportunities.

[00:16:16] So this is trying to address that issue where we see a lot of people wanting to walk and bike in our rural areas, on our rural roads, and we want to make sure that we're cognizant of that. as we plan for what those roads should look like and maybe develop programs that can enhance their ability to go out there and use those roads.

[00:16:35] I think with that, I will be turning it back over to Ty. Thank you. So as you can imagine, the transportation chapter does touch on a few of the other chapters and overlap a little bit, including both of our land use chapters, our environmental stewardship chapter, as Kevin alluded to, looking at that climate change, climate mitigation component, and then thriving economy, where workers need to get to where they're going, and then housing, of course, we need to connect

[00:17:11] our, where we live to where we're, where we work or where we live. So, here's our schedule. We met with PC on this topic on May 6th, and we're meeting with you here today we just had our last chapter um presentation to pc and on cultural resources and we'll be coming back to you on that topic on june 4th we do have a virtual lunch and learn on that

[00:17:44] topic to be scheduled in june but we'll be finalizing that date in the coming weeks our our next set of meetings is really to dive into implementation and what that looks like That will start with PC June 24th. We'll be seeing you on July 16th to discuss implementation.

[00:18:06] Just as a reminder for some of the folks in the audience or those who might be listening, ways to engage with AC44 are always listed on our Engage Abomaral website. All of the chapters that we have discussed so far are uploaded on the site, including cultural resources.

[00:18:30] Engagement activities and work sessions are always up on that site as well, and you can always sign up for a newsletter. Here are our chapter focus topics, the questions that we usually provide for you to focus your discussion.

[00:18:48] The chapter does outline different approaches to the rural area and development areas, and we'd like to hear your feedback on that. As well as, do you support us looking into a program that supports active recreation on rural roads? what what might that look like and then given the next step is implementation of this chapter do you agree with the general approach of a multimodal transportation plan and as always please let us know if we've missed anything i'll leave these up for your discussion thank you

[00:19:22] we will just these and more i'm sure um i'm not sure if it's maybe best if we take this group Although, I think we're going to have a lot of comments just generally, so I think I'm just going to let people go a little bit and see where it leads us, and we'll reign it in if it looks better.

[00:19:55] So, yeah, suggestion or procedure? Yes, procedure. Are we starting with what we've heard so far to get that comment squared away before we get to the packets or not? because those of us at the end of the list, I don't want to be told we're too late.

[00:20:12] We're not going to listen. No, no, no, we're definitely going to. This has a chance to have lots of comments for everybody, and it should, but hopefully we'll be organized about how to do it. I'm going to open it up and see what happens. We'll pull back for you.

[00:20:28] Start with Supervisor Pro. So I'm going to begin by just addressing this. Okay. It's been a long time, so we can talk about distinct concerns.

[00:20:59] This generally captures that. Be surprised. Two, advice here. But this is something I've talked about before, and I support in concept.

[00:21:16] I think, you know, we need to think about tourism as a form of economic development and recreational tourism and using our land that we've spent quite a lot of public energy and sometimes dollars preserving, making sure they're actually for the public in a form of utility.

[00:21:37] This is something I talk about a lot. We have all this land that we talk about as our general common heritage, but most of it is actually privately held. And as people will sometimes, I think, correctly point out, is that the only way to experience so much of our beautiful rural area is out of the window of a car, unless you happen to have the good fortune to have property there.

[00:21:59] I think investigating discrete recreational opportunities and ways to enhance specific areas for recreational opportunities should be a county priority. Guardrails, I mean, I think as an initial plan, probably identify specific roads that could benefit from these, based on location, based on pre-existing geography, based on tourist value, natural heritage value, however we want to articulate it.

[00:22:33] Not every road in the county is going to be a beautiful place for someone to want to go for a 40-mile bike ride. Not every road is that. captain's roads um multimodal transport plan kind of begs a question that i marked several times throughout this which is how are we understanding and delineating our own work from carta's work understanding that like this is a tricky position we're in that i think is a little different than

[00:23:06] some of our other sections where we have a very planning process happening right now stakeholders that is discreet from the transportation section of the comprehensive plan. And ideally, they would speak to and inform one another, but they're moving at different speeds at the same time in separate silos.

[00:23:29] So I guess I want to recognize that that's a complicated problem, but I guess with this one, I would just bet I am not clear when we talk about the multimodal transit plan, if this is entirely a county-bound moral plan, if this is something that is designed to be co-developed with Carta, this is something that is supposed to thread in with Carta's work, and given the centrality that Chapter focuses on this and that you just focused on this, I think that I would need that answered first just to better understand what we're talking about.

[00:24:04] I think that your description of it, threading in, is probably most appropriate. We really can't move forward with transit unless we're working regionally with Carta, CAT or other partners in that, but also they can't go out and plan for what's going on in the county on their own either. So when we talk about how that regional planning works, and I think a lot of it is working with looking at our land use planning and figuring out where do we need

[00:24:39] transit to be serving and how do we want it to serve those areas. And that's based on our land use in our existing network of roads so getting that information and making sure we're providing that through CARTA to our partners in expanding on transit in that sense I think this informs my recently vented on a little bit from the dais which is we have quite a lot of plans and documents in the county and through our regional planning partners and I'm not sure we always do the best

[00:25:16] job of cataloging and inventorying them and making them click. And I'm thinking of some studies that have been conducted by the RTP that speak to elements of that, but not in its entirety. You're speaking of the transit vision plan, maybe, and obviously I think that's really the way that this should work. So during that transit vision plan, we had representatives at the table with the RTP helping them to understand how that fit in with our existing land use.

[00:25:52] And that's, you know, a high-level, broad vision. We have another, I think that the Carta is getting ready to start another planning process, right? The one that you invited us in on recently. I think it's like an implementation-type thing.

[00:26:08] So how to move, how to make that vision a reality is what they're looking at right now. And, you know, we'll have staff that sit in on that as well and provide the input so they understand what the county's needs are. I'm in favor of all.

[00:26:28] The thing I'm kind of stabbing at, there is always a concern, right? Like, planning feels like it's a low-cost thing, but it's not, right? Like, we could say planning. We're not implementing. We feel safe saying it. Go plan. But, like, every planning effort is hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[00:26:49] I think in this realm, it feels like a colorable concern that there's duplicated effort. And I guess I would leave that at that, because I don't claim to be expert on these planning processes, but I might pitch that just as a concern I have for the rest of the board to reflect on.

[00:27:15] That's a good point. That's a good point. I'm alighting transit transportation. I know you're speaking sort of OJ, but I did hear your point. Just to be clear, what I have.

[00:27:36] More than once, of course. Great. Now, I'll just speak to these at a high level for the most part, because I think we're going to go into more detail. For bullet number one, absolutely, I think the rural and development area have different challenges, have to have different ways to address those challenges.

[00:28:00] The devil's always in the details. Do you support the investigation of a program to support active recreation on some rural roads, one of the guardrails? Generally, yes, but recognizing we are financially challenged.

[00:28:20] Understand what Mike is saying about using some of these areas for economic development. We certainly are not ready for that now, right?

[00:28:37] Having said that, I do think we have to be careful to make sure that we have our priorities right over and above recreation, safety, getting our citizens around to hospitals, to jobs, to work, to health care clinics.

[00:28:57] So I'm just thinking they're our guardrails. And again, we're going to go into a lot of them. But in general, I would support this in a limited way, maybe more limited. Given the next step, and everybody is, Chad, do you agree with the general approach to multimodal transportation plan?

[00:29:18] Yes. I think it is interesting. So when you say multimodal for the public, what do you mean? I mean, seriously, talking pedestrian. We are talking about it all.

[00:29:35] Talking about it all. And the idea behind using the term multimodal is that they're all looked at equally. So instead of historically where we've put all of our focus on private vehicular travel, I think this multimodal planning really looks at it as an integrated system that has all of those things.

[00:29:55] And I think you got that a little bit in the doc. But I just wanted for our discussion for the public to make sure we have an understanding. It's like affordable housing. It means something different to everybody. So talking about multimodal transportation plans. So, yes, I do agree with that approach.

[00:30:13] Just a couple of kind of high-level thoughts. For the public, again, we're talking about CARTA, that's Charlottesville Albemarle Transit. We're talking about the Transit Authority. And I will say one of the, that is already established and working, and one of the things I noticed, and I'll just mention it now in the pages that we have here, it says develop a regional transit authority, to develop a regional transit authority.

[00:30:44] The word develop I got hung up on a little bit because that's kind of already done. I would say we have one. So as you're going back and redoing this or updating it, I think recognizing that the authority is established and is working and looking at it through a little different lens of getting to one, what do we want that to do for us?

[00:31:11] so I can say that I've already said that for that point. Anything missing? No, not right off the top.

[00:31:26] I have some other comments I want to make as we go through a little further, but I'll just let this go right now. Supervisor Brown. Thank you very much. Okay, so if we're focusing on the screen first, then yes, definitely the needs are different.

[00:31:46] With one thing that jumped out in the earlier presentation, which I was trying hard to take notes on because I didn't have it. It was mentioned that rural area roads are only for getting people to the growth area.

[00:32:02] But there are rural area users who never come to the growth area, or rarely. So their uses within are equally important. And so I would just hope you will take out that caveat that this is fine to see. And in the development area, lots and lots of people need more than bikes and pedestrians.

[00:32:24] We're talking about seniors, and when I was on crutches, I couldn't be doing anything but get in my car. So I want to be sure that there's a perception that I hear about in the public that all we're worried about is bikes and pedestrians, and I think some of this focus is because it is, as Kevin just said, been so focused totally in the other direction for 50 years that there's sort of a little payback going on here, but continuing to be balanced, as you just described, and all users working together, I think, will help to get that education level out there for everybody.

[00:32:59] The second bullet, much more than recreation, much more than tourism. So there are different sorts of users, and I'm seeing Albert over there because we've met multiple times on Ridge Road, but there are many other roads like Ridge Road where there are local people who walk out of their kitchen, go for a walk on the road, and have one set of issues of people cutting through, speeding, throwing them in a ditch, et cetera.

[00:33:27] and then there are other roads which are very popular because they're on some list like the running cruise list you know got to go here it's like blue holy before you graduate you got to go take your case of beer and go out to sugar hollow well i wish those lists didn't exist frankly because they cost everybody a lot of pain but there are other roads who which are when we've done surveys as we've been standing out there the grand majority of the people are driving in from somewhere else

[00:33:55] Some in the city, some in the Urban Ring, some in Waynesboro or someplace else, and parking their car here or there, wherever they can find a space, half the time, in the travel lane, which creates issues for the police department and VDOT. So sorting out sort of how we can better have rules that will allow sharing of these facilities in a safer way.

[00:34:18] I think all different types of roads in the rural area, speeding is absolutely the number one safety issue, maintenance issue, accident issue, you know, all the different departments because of trouble that people find themselves in when they try to go way too fast on whether it's a paved road or a gravel road in the country because of the historic layout that we've had of CalPAS that ended up getting paid.

[00:34:42] So I don't expect that those design features will change because I don't think that's financially or even possible or even desirable of a huge amount of rebellion. People said, oh, we're going to turn country roads into all looking like urban streets.

[00:35:02] I mean, I think that's a non-starter. And I'm not sure that that's suggesting that that's what you were putting in there. But it is one of the things that people, when they're leaping to the wrong extreme, see in some of the wording. So I think guardrails, for me, would be taking care.

[00:35:25] We can't, everyone, every site is different, and I think take our step-by-step. But there are some, I'm hopeful that there will be some guardrails that can be created in consultation with VDOT and ACPD that will help the safety features on all of our roads, no matter who the user is, or, you know, our fire chief goes on these 80-mile bike rides around the scariest roads that I've ever been on.

[00:35:54] Whitehall District 810 Loop. I would dream of taking a bicycle on those roads myself because I know how scary it is in a car to meet somebody on the road but people love to do that and good for them. These roads are challenging for sure and I'm concerned about that. Multimodal, this is sort of a new term in here so I'm glad to see that it's happening but I think the confusion about duplication is there are different layers federal has the long-range transportation plan

[00:36:32] that's one thing state has their thing we have our things we've basically done with team comp plan to see how there was overlap so everybody's been doing their own little chunk and totally different responsibilities from my perspective so I think we just need to focus on in our lane and try to do the very best job we can on that let's see rural area goods of rural area roads far more than just movement of goods. I do not support having our rural roads designated as just for truckers and people getting

[00:37:12] from Waynesboro or Stanton or Harrisonburg down to Charlottesville by cutting through the A-10 and places like that. Local users, I think, justifiably feel left out. If that's what I understood you to say from some of the input, I can do that.

[00:37:28] I will stop there and come back to missing things later. Number one, I generally do agree with the approach because we do have to have different approaches between rural and development areas. We are different. Do you support the investigation program? Support active work? I'd like to know from you all what you consider recreation. Your definition of recreation may be different from my definition of recreation than what someone else's. So I'm not quite sure

[00:38:07] what you mean, what you're looking at when you say recreation. I know this is high level but some examples would be helpful. This is focused on active recreation, so we're referring to our bikers, walkers, runners.

[00:38:24] And this is something that I know our team deals with a lot on these rural areas. As Supervisor Malik mentioned, it's a big user on a lot of our rural routes is that we see people that go out there specifically to do those activities, but there's a conflict there, Whether it's the parking or it's just people choosing to do that on roads that are high volume with vehicle traffic and that creates a conflict, safety conflict, that kind of thing.

[00:38:54] So our idea here is that we should be looking and identifying where people are going, where we think appropriate for them to go, and what we need to do to support that. There's going to be things like just signage programs. They could be identifying places where the recreational users can park and leave their car for the day if they want to go out and do a bike ride.

[00:39:19] So that's the kind of program that we're looking at. Okay, so kind of like a little parking area. It can be anything.

[00:39:35] I think gravel road riding has become very popular, so they make bikes that are specifically designated for that now that are in between a real mountain bike and a road bike. But yeah, we hear that a lot when we talk about our paving programs, is that there's a lot of people in the county that don't want us paving these roads because they love riding these gravel bikes on these unpaved roads.

[00:40:00] That is good. I have some real concerns regarding rural roads, because we're also talking about in here maybe widening the road for bikers or extending the side of the road.

[00:40:15] i i know the roads in my district i don't know about the other districts but that's going to be hard it'll be extremely hard in fact a lot of the cars can't even seem to stay in the road with the current width so or trucks same thing but how do you widen that i mean that if we could do it i think that would be great to have a separate area for bikers i guess that uh i'd to see where that's being contemplated because I don't think that's going to happen in my district.

[00:40:50] I mean, maybe, but from what I'm seeing, no, maybe Burnley Station Road, something like that. Could be, could be. So I just have to, I guess what my concerns are safety concerns. Having cars and people riding bikes on, without a delineated area for bikers, That scares the jeeper's enemy.

[00:41:19] The roads can't be widened, but maybe if areas were identified where this was safe or on gravel roads in certain areas, that would be good. Guardrails, I'd have to see what it is.

[00:41:38] I guess that would be the delineation on a road for bikes only. Just metaphorical guardrails. Metaphorical guardrails, not literal one. Okay, no. As in like guardrails on the policy. I, okay, okay. I know not the illiterals.

[00:41:54] Okay, sorry. That I know, that I know. Not all of, yeah. I just didn't, okay. So it would be, I'm not sure what I would think of what kind of guardrail. It would be the top of the road, frankly.

[00:42:10] I'd have to see that. That would be interesting. Given the next step on the recreation, I do believe in the recreation. I know Supervisor Pruitt touched on recreational things to do on the rural roads or off of the rural roads or in the rural area that takes you to some recreational things.

[00:42:36] We have a lot of beauty in this county, and it shouldn't be just for some. It should be for everyone to be able to experience, frankly, that beauty. Given the next step implementation, do you agree with that? I do like the multimodal transportation plan.

[00:42:55] It seems to be really regarding bicycles and, well, pedestrian and bicycle, I totally agree with in the development area. I'm really concerned in the rural area, even pedestrian. I don't want to see people walking along 20 or even riding a bike along 20.

[00:43:16] That scares me in my district. Anything missing that will probably come with some more of my – oh, I did want to mention, you had mentioned about the cul-de-sac, and you had said that there would be a connector to go through to another development at the end of a cul-de-sac. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read that it was for pedestrian and bikes, not so much cars. I was referring to comments that we heard from PC, so that had not

[00:43:51] made it into the chapter yet, but I did want to bring it up that they wanted us to focus on potentially adjusting regulations to eliminate cul-de-sacs and dead ends or new subdivisions. And I know we're having connectors with new subdivisions. Everyone's having a connector.

[00:44:11] And I know in Hollow Hills, there's a pedestrian bike connection part that also. I'll take the approach that we've taken to. I'm grateful for just to answer these questions first. And I certainly do agree that there are different approaches required. There are some things that I think are potentially missing. For example, the development area talks about greenhouse gas reduction, but it doesn't say that with the rural. Now, understandably, the ways in which you might do that are different, but I still think it should be a priority for both

[00:44:48] areas and I'd like to see that included. But I do agree with the approach. As far as support active recreation on some rural roads, to the extent that it is it is already happening and it's already somewhat supported because they're are already designated parking like at Whitehall for Sugar Hollow and others, you know, trying to make sure that that's facilitated would be a really nice thing for the community.

[00:45:13] At the same time, I recognize that one of the things that we're doing here is Three Notch Trail is discussions of that, which I think are high priority and may, in some respects, replace some of these other opportunities or offer new opportunities that become more popular than the existing opportunities if they're made available.

[00:45:29] So I would prefer that we get that done than that we identify any new place where we're going to try to do some support for people using a rural road, especially ones that aren't currently. I wouldn't go out and create new ones, and I also would be very sensitive to the guardrails, very sensitive to those who have to use those roads and what imposition there may be.

[00:45:55] Because there are certainly some where we know that people just go out there and park up and down the road, make it very difficult for the users who live there sometimes because they don't know that suddenly we've got regular road races going on or something. And then a multimodal transportation plan.

[00:46:13] I obviously thought when I was reading this that in some respects it will replace this document and flesh it out in many respects. There are other things that are also in here that are referenced that need to flesh it out, like the Safe Streets for All, which I think should probably be referred to as Move Safely at this point, and the references.

[00:46:36] And then the Safe Roots to Schools was also one of the other plans mentioned that gets incorporated into this. So there's some things that already exist, I guess is what I'm saying, that are approaches that flesh out some of what is going into this transportation chapter.

[00:46:57] And so I guess I do share a concern that we worry so much about planning and getting a transportation plan together that we may miss opportunities to get things done. And I noticed, I was very interested when I saw in the objective some mentions of low plan and no plan projects.

[00:47:19] And so I would like to understand that better because... Well, it certainly sounded to me like very efficient if it's in the right place, but obviously I have to understand it better. So I'll leave it there and let you respond to that, if you may, and then we'll go through.

[00:47:40] And I would suggest maybe in the next round we could focus on the development area once and then focus on the rural area once. And that way we can at least keep it somewhat organized. I was just going to address the, sorry, low plan, no plan.

[00:47:58] This is a program that we've seen working in Enrico County. I think maybe Fairfax or Loudoun also does this where they, it's a small project. It might be just, it might be putting in a handy hat for you.

[00:48:14] Where we've already got the details ready for it. It's a simple construction project. A contractor has built a hundred of these, and it's a low-cost, low-plan type of project that we can execute quickly for a small amount of money.

[00:48:34] And not necessarily. We're exploring, you know, we don't know exactly how it would work, but it is a program that exists out there that we're trying to explore and learn more about.

[00:48:51] Thank you. I want to go back through the order and this time focus, I hope, on the development area of both the objectives and actions, but also the comments. Are we going to that? Yeah, I think we can go to that while also going through the text.

[00:49:06] Right. Because there's a lot of overlap. If you're ready, if you'd like your vote. Great. I want to talk about first 1.2 and whether or not that is a truly distinct action from 1.1.

[00:49:23] It feels like I read that and I was like, is that not just like figure 12, tack 4, such and such page of the multimodal transit plan? Yeah, I think that a modal emphasis map would be a part of that.

[00:49:39] It could be done separately as well, but I think if we were to do a multimodal transportation plan that we would want to have a modal emphasis map as part of that. So it could be combined. I'll say the modal emphasis map might be one of the first parts of the plan that we focus on right out of the gate so that it does help inform where we spend our investments and such and make some decisions on projects that VDOT may be proposing.

[00:50:14] Are y'all viewing this as kind of like an initial day one descriptive document to inform? Does that make sense? I think so. I think the way I think of it is it's literally a map saying all things being equal, we have limited right-of-way on a given street or road.

[00:50:38] On a particular road, is it on a bike lane? Are we focusing on needing sidewalks? How does that right-of-way get split up? Sometimes we're limited on that right-of-way and we have to make hard decisions. So that's what that modal emphasis should.

[00:51:02] should delineate is what our emphasis is what we should be focusing on prioritizing for that particular they help us with some of the guardrail i want to make sure that when we're micro mobility which i see in 2.1 probably when i hear that i'm thinking like a bird scooter i want to make sure

[00:51:36] i'm thinking the right thing if there's other things that are being contemplated i think in in this case when we're thinking scooters as well we don't look to the rest of the team but we were thinking scooters.

[00:51:52] Not. I should just raise this, and I don't know that this needs to be reflected specifically in the comprehensive plan. Having lived previously in the black suburbs of D.C., which has a very robust micro transit structure.

[00:52:19] Constellation of private actors. A very robust constellation of private actors. My experience of micromobility is quite sour and negative. And I think very easily see that translated into some of the further out suburban edges, fringes of our developmentally led operations.

[00:52:44] They are going to do collections in areas that are higher density, which results in kind of the accumulation of literal detritus in further out communities, which are also disproportionately going to be communities that are less affluent than your...

[00:53:02] I mean, that's maybe not as strictly true here, but that was definitely true in D.C., right? People who can afford living only 30 minutes out from the urban core rather than people who can afford living in the... I don't know, and this is just a challenging intersection of government and private actors that I think is hard to plan around.

[00:53:22] Just the general economics that plays into this and the kind of destructive knock-on effects. I only raise that because this is something I feel like weirdly alone on an island, being skeptical about micromobility and microtransit companies.

[00:53:38] And I would just raise that for your consideration, any kind of planning activities. But that's mostly just, I'm not suggesting any changes on that, just a bugbear for your considerations. Supervisor Pruitt, I'll just mention that we do have a policy, not a policy, sorry, a regulatory framework for micromobility that we put into place a number of years ago.

[00:54:02] and that was really becoming a popular thing, and it's a permit system. So right now, we won't allow any company just to come in and put their micro-mobility devices around the county. They have to get a permit to do that, and so we can strictly control what that permit allows them to do and make sure that we have contacts.

[00:54:26] Not to say that it's not a danger, but we do have some guardrails on that program already that I think we could probably utilize if we don't. Just some additional context I did not know. Objective three is kind of all the constituent actions.

[00:54:46] This is another one of these things where I think we can be more specific and, like, frankly, do some more work on the front end, thinking how we want to delineate responsibility between regional planning organizations and the county. And I don't see that being done here. I actually don't even, I didn't clock any reference until 4.2 to any kind of regional planning organization.

[00:55:09] And it seems to bear really actively on 3. I don't have a specific recommendation on that because I think that's a more, like, fulsome discussion that I would think. I would hope staff would have the expertise to lead on that. Like, there is going to be overlap outside of who's carrying what by.

[00:55:32] One thing I say during our pre-session, what's missing when we talk about, I had not been saying, like, at least I as a supervisor, the constituent concerns I hear about active recreation and about safety on our roads is almost always from the perspective of people who are ambling on there, who are concerned about the school that has started routing its traffic around these and intersection that they want to use.

[00:56:31] or people who want to take a half-institutional down James River Road and the concern about the speed. Those are, I think, real distinct concerns than those that bear on a person who wants to take a 80-mile bike ride to parts of historic, some framework for identifying those as discrete problem sets and classifying them separately.

[00:57:06] I'm not sure it's helpful to think of them all in a single block. One is going to bear on really specific, isolated, like, Here is a residential area that people have certain, here's a significant stretch of really isolated road that we might want to have certain considerations or planning strictures in whether or not we're doing something that might interrupt the recreational capacity, that really long stretch of road.

[00:57:38] parents athletes and I'm not sure we are looking at my notes I'm almost terrified to try to figure out how to deal with a lot of very general notes and I have a couple of actions that you have that

[00:58:10] I've noted so I just um one of my overarching notes is how are we dealing with the disconnect between Crozet and Tops 29 North those areas to the airport we need to figure out how to get folks to the year. And I just named our population centers for the most part, right? But how are we getting through this? And if we do nothing else, one of our main goals should be figuring that out

[00:58:45] because we just, we don't have it right. So that's just kind of a... The other thing I would note again as a big concern I have is I don't see a lot in this document working with, I know this is difficult but working with the city and uva specifically the city at our entrance corner

[00:59:18] if we don't figure out with vdot the city and us our entrance corridors how to make all of that work we just are going to be you know we had a report what back in 2012 i keep quoting from from tjpdc that said if we don't address the entrance corridors if the city that reports it It doesn't address the entrance corridors into the city and county lines.

[00:59:48] We'll be gridlocked by 2025. Here we are. And I'm just saying that we can do all we want in the development area around traffic concerns and bike and pedestrian. If we don't figure out how to work, get the city on board with us and work better together.

[01:00:08] I mean, I had a call at one point from a citizen in our community a few months ago. They had a gridlock on Pantops. I called Carrie VDOT to see what was going on.

[01:00:24] She sent someone out to look at the gridlock was actually down at the bridge, right at the city-county line. It took VDOT's person 45 minutes to get there to investigate what was going on, only to find that the city had shut down the intersection without telling VDOT what they were doing.

[01:00:48] I'm just saying, and it works both ways, guys. I would suggest that we buy VDOT a helicopter so that they can helicopter in to these areas to deal with the gridlock. And VDOT just shut them down and said, you can't do this. We have to figure out how to do this better.

[01:01:05] And I'm not blaming the city because I'm sure VDOT makes mistakes too. I'm just saying that if we don't figure out how to work better with our partners, especially these areas where we have intersections and connectivities, it's all for naught.

[01:01:22] synchronized lights comes to that. Just think about how our traffic would move better if the city and the county lights were synchronized or if the city was synchronizing the lights on their side, but the ones that impact us and the intersections. So somehow or another, wrapping our arms around this and getting everybody is going to be just critical. And boy, that is a rock up a hill. I get that. But it's really going to have to be done because we are one community like that. Our intersections are just

[01:01:59] so tight enough said about that um i could go on about that for hours um i was a little concerned about and i'll just kind of point out a few things i was concerned about um investigate county funded programs to supply local businesses with bike parking infrastructure i am on 2.5 okay sorry citing an installation upon request i'm not sure am i reading that right we're going to give and i'm all for businesses and i love for them to have by but it says

[01:02:35] investigate the cost of a county-funded program to supply local businesses? I'm one supervisor who is a little concerned about that. Maybe there's some sort of cost sharing, but I'm just putting a red flag on that one.

[01:02:59] Your proposal, I might not absolutely, but I have questions. I'm just reading my notes here. Sorry. The 2.8 I made a note, UVA, again, I'm getting back on my high horse, but we really have to figure out whether it's through Lubick or whatever it is, get UVA to help us be on understanding what they're planning so that we can react

[01:03:38] without us having to react after it's already done. And you know exactly what I'm talking about. I mean, we find out about it after it's already been approved by the Board of Visitors, And then we're trying to play catch up and react when, in reality, while they get to do whatever they want because they're the state, somehow or another opening those doors and trying to convince them to let us know so that we can at least be prepared.

[01:04:05] Get off that out. Let's see my next notes. And I've already talked about developing a regional transit authority, so I've talked about that already. Improve transit stops to enhance safety, comfort, accessibility, franchise stops, movements, low-income, and underserved areas.

[01:04:31] That's all part of that transit work. And one of the biggest complaints I hear in my district around the CAT stops certainly is ice and snow and trying to figure out how perhaps to encourage CAT to handle their snow removal.

[01:04:51] It seems like to me they could be able to handle snow removal at their just saying stops. If a person can get all the way to the bus stop, they shouldn't be falling down and standing in the street. That's a very practical suggestion, but it's something that really impacts our citizens.

[01:05:10] And I had synchronized lights. I've talked about that. Requiring connected developments. So this gets back to sort of the cul-de-sac piece that you were. I felt we encouraged connections all over the country, and yet that's the one thing we hear from citizens.

[01:05:33] And we're often saying, okay, you don't have to have to finish. And how do we get at that seriously? I mean, now, because often they don't even want bicycle and pedestrian connection all nodding their head.

[01:05:52] So if we, if somehow or another, if we can, I thought Fairfax at one point just said, if your proposal doesn't include a connection, then we're not even entertaining it. Application. Yeah.

[01:06:07] I mean, I thought that's what Fairfax did. They got so tired of the fights over connections to neighborhoods in their work of trying to get a connected community. And they just said, we're not going to entertain it if it's not connected. Now, maybe you wouldn't want to say that we're vehicular, but certainly for biking pedestrians.

[01:06:24] I'm just saying, so stressing connections with our, I have people all the time that say, I don't like that roundabout at Whole Foods. What am I going to do? I can, well, there are four other ways you can go. I'm just saying, really?

[01:06:42] So let's, folks, that's the whole idea of having different connections is that you just don't have to go one way. You can go other ways. Get back to my grants here. All right, so I'm at 4.5, which is the pedestrian.

[01:07:03] Well, that's good. I think all of those are going to move on here. Prioritize the safety of students traveling. So this is 6.5. Prioritize safety of students traveling to safer institutions.

[01:07:19] yeah we have students now that are walking in the urban areas in the road because there are no sidewalks or it's just like with the bicycles you walk or you'll be on your bicycle and all of a sudden the connection is gone and you're all and you're out in the street so prioritizing some of these and i especially think safe routes to school is a good place these connections to schools where students are required now by the school division to walk.

[01:07:51] We ought to have those connections prioritized. And now I'm down to 6.7. Collaborate with police and FEDOT to refine the county's process to respond to speeding complaints and proactively reduce speeds to improve safety.

[01:08:10] That's an interesting nundrum because I hear folks often saying, we want the speeds reduced. And yet, when the speeds are reduced, they come back and say, well, that didn't make a minute. And VDOT has very specific rationale as to how they set speed limits.

[01:08:35] And I don't want to do a workshop on that right now. But I do think that when I see reduced speeds to improve safety, I'm not sure just reducing those speeds really gets at it. It would be interesting for VDOT to talk at some point about that.

[01:08:52] Kevin, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, and I think we can be more specific about that. I don't think that the idea is that we're going to go on and change the sign to reduce the speed limit. We want to reduce the actual speed of vehicles. That's right. The traffic calming programs, I think that's the kind of thing.

[01:09:09] So thank you. Because when I saw that, I thought, that's not going to work. It doesn't work. There's a rationale as to how they set the speed limits to begin with. And it's pretty sensible. Okay. Traffic calming.

[01:09:26] I would love to see us in some of these areas where we're seeing a lot of speeding look very holistically at traffic calming programs. But it doesn't mean that you have to go in and take a whole lane away. You know, there are things you can do.

[01:09:43] And there are, I think, some states and some communities that have used art traffic calming. And I don't see anything in this whole document about art. Maybe it's there, but I just missed it.

[01:10:03] But even the feds, the Department of Transportation at the federal level has said that they are approving now art on roads, art in different areas. You can use art on crosswalks.

[01:10:18] I mean, let's think, I mean, Kevin, I talked to you a few years back about Solomon Road and Englewood, that huge, wide road over there. And people are flying down. And if we had a pedestrian area where people could walk that had some art going down, you would have some traffic and a safer place for them.

[01:10:38] So just think that a little bit differently, maybe. And I'm digressing, and I apologize. But I am looking at traffic calming, but maybe in a different way, looking at other options besides just making the road.

[01:10:55] Develop a long-term maintenance plan for street trees and right-of-ways. I would love to see that. If 29 North is any example, we need to figure it out because all those trees planted up there all those years ago, then they either died, I guess the fumes from the traffic, I don't know, and then a bunch of them we dug up because we put infrastructure where they were and they were in our way.

[01:11:25] So I think looking at that would be wonderful. A tree program, street trees, and maybe not just in our 29 North, but in our other roads as well. I think that's a great idea.

[01:11:41] That gets to our urban area in shade and trees, right? So, cooling. Here's the public realm around bus stops, such as, oh, there's an art installation. And I'd actually started, so I didn't see it right there. So, yes, obviously I agree with that.

[01:12:01] Let me see, I'm getting close, Jim, here. I think I might be through. This is all rural, so I'm good. Yep, I'm good. Thank you. So we're on to the truck. All right, we'll send you the scribble all the time.

[01:12:25] 2.1, well aware already, so many places where for neighborhoods, park and paver, hilltop, places that have already suffered 20 years of drive-thru trucks getting through to the new subdivisions that were built on interior land, now with its own street access, really important.

[01:12:51] I had to learn about no plan, and while I'm thinking about that, I will jump over to, I'll come back to it later. All right, 2.5, I was concerned about that and thought, get a business grant to do that.

[01:13:15] And things like e-bike vouchers and things, I just, that's support. I'm very concerned about using tax money for things like that, because even a $1,000 voucher, still somebody has to come up with thousands more to buy that, and that's just a very limited clientele, and I'd rather not be trying to separate out people for that.

[01:13:36] Let's see, 2.8. Oh, what can we do about getting you views fake? For the last 10 years, the county has came numerous times and allowed the university to get out of paying for infrastructure, like the sidewalk in front of Old Ivy Road between ECC and whatever closer in.

[01:13:58] That somehow became our business when they had promised to do it when they tore down the Clugy Hospital. Fontaine, they promised to do it for the rezoning on Fontaine Research Park, and now we're getting stuck with using our dollars for that whole Fontaine organization.

[01:14:14] So we have some sturdiness in our standing up for ourselves on that. I think that would go a long way to do that. 2.11, very concerned about the whole scooter thing on roads that are not just 15 miles an hour because I don't think, I mean, bicycles, I'm a little, very concerned always when I'm driving, Even at 30 miles an hour, a bicyclist is going to fall in front of me, and I'm going to kill them.

[01:14:42] So in these narrow confines, it's just a real concern. And the way people fly on the scooters and have nothing to hold on to, they're just standing there. I mean, holy mackerel. So anyway, I'm showing my old age here, I guess, but that worries me a lot. And I think that we're having so much trouble keeping our speeds down in the development area as well as the rural area.

[01:15:03] Very few people go 35 in the places they're supposed to go 35 in the development area, and it's difficult. And the litter of these abandoned scooters all over the place at the county border still, I see them. So I went out at Airport Road and Profit Road the other day.

[01:15:22] I thought, wow, that was a long way out of town. So I just get annoyed by that. I appreciate the success that CARTA is doing. And I think that as we develop more governance involvement for the county, that makes our dollars seem more well represented.

[01:15:42] That would be great. 3.2, Microtransit, I think fees should be associated with that. I don't think we can continue supporting the microcat for free for millions of dollars a year for a few people without any means testing to make sure that people who can afford a ride should be able to pay for their ride.

[01:16:05] I see a lot of great ridership, but I'm not sure that it's benefiting people who really need it to get to the PBCC for training, for job skills, or anything like that. We've tried at the Workforce Center to link people with that program so that they can get to job training. I absolutely appreciate the ice and snow at the transit stops and for the sun and for not having any shade for a lot of these places in the summertime. It's so debilitating and there's no place to even stand except under the bramble. So I look forward to those kinds of improvements too.

[01:16:39] 4.1, I have written down synchronized lights in all caps because they got money for that when we did the 29 solutions. And they just somehow spent on something else. So that's good. 0.7 are related. Traffic calming has been for years. The county points a finger at VDOT and says VDOT won't let us, and VDOT says, oh, yes, you can. All you have to do is fill out the process.

[01:17:16] But it is incredibly frustrating, even for Park Ridge Road, which has a 25-mile-an-hour speed limit on it. People's animals have been killed. Kids were almost run over at the bus stop this spring. Enforcing this or somehow getting the highway furniture, as what they call it in Europe, things in the road to make people go around. I mean, I said to you 10 years ago, I'll just bring you an 800-pound hay bale and you can put it right in the middle there. You've got plenty of road width and people will just have to drive around it. And yet now the cost for the Waz Roundabout is, what, 10 million bucks? I mean, we've got to find a better way to do this. But

[01:17:54] it's almost the Cadillac version versus the Vega version over and over and over again. We have adequate right-of-way and we need to just change the paint on the road or put one of those portable teacher's mounds in the middle to force people to go around, delineators, whatever. But we've got to find a way to put structural changes in these roads, and maybe fourth year we'll be able to get the photo speed cameras, which would take care of everything in a heartbeat. People will not be getting multiple $200 tickets for long since we

[01:18:30] can't do that yet. We really have got to use all of our brain power to try to figure out a way to structurally changes in these roadways to make people care a little bit about themselves or somebody else. And 6.4, I have not seen it myself except on somebody else's phone, but there is all sorts of bicycle and running software that generates all sorts of data about where people are using roads for these purposes. And so I don't think we need to hire a consultant. We just need

[01:19:07] to get the data that's already out there in the public sphere and be able to incorporate that information as we're planning things better. 6.5. This has been a crisis in the oldest part of Crozet where the houses were all built in the late 1700s, early 1800s.

[01:19:27] The road is 12 feet wide. Talking about art, it was a perfectly beautiful 20-foot diameter or 12-foot diameter kaleidoscope painted on the road and it did slow people down and we not painted it over because they decided it didn't meet their requirements. I mean, that was crushing. But where St. George crosses, VDOT will not protect them, make a crosswalk that had been there for 50 years beforehand, because there's not a little ramp down on the other side. Well, people have been crossing and walking on the road because there's no sidewalk on the other side anyway. But anyway, this has

[01:20:03] literally held a separate tenure. We've had numerous meetings with delegates and everybody else, and nobody will push the needle off top dead center here. But we've got to figure out, that's just one example. I'm sure there are hundreds more throughout the growth area where small things like that need to be done. And maybe that's a no plan, low plan.

[01:20:21] Drop the ramp in the box right there. Get people to be able to roll down the hill to the road on St. Jordan North and be able to then qualify for that crosswalk. 6.7, I had circled where appropriate at the end and said please take that away because there's no place where it's appropriate for people to speak.

[01:20:46] So let's think about design changes are really what's needed. And as much as I thought it was a surprise when they put those pop outs at Park Street, it didn't really work. And so while there are not a lot of places where that would work, it certainly is just one example.

[01:21:05] We already talked about the hay bales, the street trees. I mean, if we want people to walk anywhere, we've got to have sidewalks that have some elements of shade pretty frequently in order for all these 90-degree days for people to be able to stand up there on a white, reflective, hot sidewalk and be able to survive.

[01:21:28] 7.7, I just said grant funded only on that. There, the only other thing on the growth area was regarding microCAD.

[01:21:55] I mean, I think that's been a very, very successful program the RQP has done. I understand that they have enough funding through grants to get them through another year. And it will come back to us for decision work. I'm sorry. Yeah, you're right.

[01:22:10] And then it has to come back to us for a decision. And then we have to decide what we're going to do at that point. And maybe we may, you know, tweak it as far as what you, Supervisor Malik said, you know, it could be for those people who can't pay for it or have a sliding scale, that type of thing.

[01:22:31] Traffic calming measures, super important. We are limited by VDOT. I mean, we can't, I mean, I appreciate what you're saying, Anne, regarding sticking a bale of hay in the middle. But, you know, if someone runs into that, it's not VDOT approved, and we're going to get sued.

[01:22:52] And I know you will probably, you know. I was talking to VDOT with a suggestion because that's what I'm talking about. I understand. But I think we need to work with VDOT, maybe work with the state, because VDOT's not going to, once things change, they're not going to budge.

[01:23:10] and i just want to make sure that we can get some things actually through and done but maybe work with them maybe they can tweak a little bit and i do agree with traffic calming as far as putting things in the middle of a road but maybe they get some proof i've seen it done before in other areas where you just put something in concrete um like a uh a curb pardon a jersey barrier maybe yeah Is that what you're thinking of, those large concrete?

[01:23:42] Concrete or even like going in the middle of the road with the curbs and everything that forces oncoming traffic to, and you have signs to slow down as they go around that, that they can't just speed through. I mean, hopefully there's some things we can do because we've got areas, it's very dangerous, and traffic calming would very much help.

[01:24:07] I find that VDOT is not very up on, I don't think, the latest traffic calming measures. And maybe we can entice them to do that. Regarding the signal synchronization, I think it's very important.

[01:24:27] And down with the bridges, I think once the project rolls the road to about 20, I know they can't change the signal now because that's all going to be done in 27. We're going to redo that whole thing. But I think it would be important to say, because I've asked them, are you, you know, can you synchronize?

[01:24:50] They say that costs X number of dollars, whether or not they're going to do it. But I think this would be a good time to maybe push them, saying, we're doing our part up to 20. Can you do your part and get the signals changed there, too?

[01:25:06] And that would really help with that congestion. You know, let's press them to do this. When our project is done, theirs is done also, I think that would help. I think, okay, so going through here, 2.3, part of the annual budget process, establish a steady funding stream.

[01:25:34] You mean something dedicated or solely for that? You're thinking for pedestrian bicycle projects? I think we're thinking just of a fund that might be added to on a regular basis where we could potentially go out and do some of those low plan, no plan type of projects.

[01:25:58] Right. So it would be an annual contribution. Which I agree with. And I like an annual, you know, some kind of contribution. I just don't want to tie our hands. You know, budgets get tight and then someone says, hey, you promised it'd be a steady stream. We're holding you to it, and then we've got to raise taxes.

[01:26:15] That's what I don't want to do, but I do. 2.5, once again, it's brought up the program to supply local businesses. We ought to work with businesses, and especially any new businesses, to have them as part of their development that they put in, bike parking and infrastructure and things like that, instead of us paying them to do that and work with the businesses to do that.

[01:26:49] Hopefully they're not saying anything. Colleagues with activity centers, appropriate design, speed.

[01:27:17] Well, the only thing, it doesn't concern me, but VDOT does this. I mean, we have asked VDOT numerous times, can you reduce the speed on this road? And they will do a speed check, then they'll come back a month later, and they'll say no.

[01:27:32] It would be really, really nice. I mean, I don't have a problem with this, but VDOT is already doing this good. We don't have control over public VDOT-owned streets, right, to regulate the speed.

[01:27:49] I wish we did, but we don't, correct? Well, we can work to design streets that would reduce speeds from the start. Put something in the middle or narrow it, not the hay bale, but, you know, something along that line of thought.

[01:28:08] Traffic calming and placemaking, these are things that we're all talking about. What Supervisor McKeel mentioned with art, that ties into this placemaking street. So landscaping, anything like that that makes a street more inviting to pedestrians and also reduces the speed of vehicles.

[01:28:29] Can we put in here then traffic calming? We don't have, you know, I wasn't sure on placemaking streets. Yeah, let's look at that and figure out how we can tie that. Because it's mentioned in other places how to tie it in. Okay, 7.2.

[01:28:51] I love trees, however, I've also gotten complaints on 29, you all know because I've called you about it, where residents call and say the line of sight, it's a signal, 29 and some of the other words, the line of sight is blocked by a tree.

[01:29:14] We all remember that horrific accident that happened in fact. So I think, I'm not saying don't plant trees. I'm just saying make sure that when we do, if it's at an intersection, there is a clear line of sight.

[01:29:31] Otherwise, we'll be pulling it. And speaking of trees, just for, I know this is not, this is a presentation, but as you're driving along and you want people to be able to see the stores, you know, be it retail, be it restaurants, commercial, whatever, but if you want people to see that, I think we need to be cognizant of where we place trees along roads, busy roads, where they block signs, where they block businesses, especially restaurants and

[01:30:11] such. Notice how I was able to slip that in there. And that's it for me. I actually think that a lot of what I had written has been said. I note that this is development areas and the words in development areas appear in two of all of the actions in the entire list of seven objectives and I was kind of curious that I went through why that and in one

[01:30:48] case it's because it was dealing with microtransit which is in the development area and others but and then in the other case is 6.8 it says clarity would lead out this form of funding mechanism an opportunity to implement traffic calming programs in the structural and variety type of roads in the development area, and I thought, well, why is that in the development area?

[01:31:08] Because I will bring that up in the rural area as another thing for crossroads communities, so I'm jumping ahead with it, but I thought that the comment belonged here because it's odd that only those two places, the only places in the development area, were used. I was also looking for some consistency within the document, And I noticed that 1.2 has developed a modal emphasis map to identify bicycle facilities that link Dementia's County City.

[01:31:36] And I think it's been mentioned that UBA should be included in that. Then 6.8 specifically says, oh no, I'm sorry, not 6.8, 2.8. Like an pedestrian network connectivity between counties, the city, and the University of Virginia along major corridors.

[01:31:54] So I was trying to figure out what the difference was between those and why we had a separate action, except for this modal emphasis map, which I didn't fully understand and had already been discussed. And again, I do agree with a lot of the comments about making sure that we don't just expect the county to fund bike parking infrastructure, but in fact, maybe incentivize it and not fund it fully.

[01:32:27] When we get to micro-mobility, I certainly hope we do learn from others' mistakes in this area because it's become controversial and a lot of rules apply to making sure that's done in a way that doesn't create hazards. I'm not too fast, but I do want to say that I've heard a lot of these comments made in one form or another pretty clearly.

[01:32:55] 4.4 that says collaborate operational improvements for major corridors, 29, 250, 64. I want to make sure there's some place in the document where we recognize that we want local alternatives for those roads as well, because that becomes a source of relief.

[01:33:13] I know that there's a comment made in the text about how adding lanes doesn't actually reduce congestion. I found that a curious comment. I'm not sure how that exactly could work, but I do agree that adding lanes creates additional barriers as well, but having sort of alternatives is actually specifically mentioned in that same paragraph that says adding lanes doesn't help, it says, you know, but finding alternative ways does.

[01:33:43] And, you know, make sure that that's prioritizing. It's recognized that roads are new roads or bridges can expand the network and better distribute traffic. That's where it says, while expansion does not reduce congestion in the long term. That's an interesting statement. And then I'll just add the, just a final comment.

[01:34:17] This was made by one of the people writing in, where it says in Objective 7, not in the actions, but in the objective, including reducing greenhouse gas emissions partially for a reduction of vehicle miles traveled.

[01:34:34] It suggests that partially really should be particularly, because I don't think you're going to reduce greenhouse gases effectively in the county, you know, interlocally, without just particularly reducing the use of single-occupant vehicles.

[01:34:53] I agree with that. And I'll stop there as well, with respect to me on something in here that I missed. Oh, go ahead. I think, then I forgot, just the light came on. Red light cameras were authorized to have red light cameras for speeders, well, not for speeders, but running red lights.

[01:35:15] I see that happen a lot, maybe in the, especially in the urban 29 corridor, 50 areas, but I think red light cameras save lives, and I would love to see some more red light cameras.

[01:35:33] I know we had one at 29 in Rio, and then when the parade change came out, I'd love to see red light cameras. The other thing is addressing, Jim mentioned, you know, he didn't quite understand how if you expand it, then that's going to, it's not going to reduce traffic.

[01:35:56] California, the 401 freeway, they have 16 lanes. No, I'm not, I'm not advocating. No, no, I'm just saying I read the same thing you did, and I go, wait a minute. And then I realize, yeah, if you make it wider, they will come.

[01:36:14] Just quickly, two things. Dots all over the country do things. BDOT is very, there are dots.

[01:36:35] All I'm saying is to think about that. Sometimes states are doing what other dots are doing. And go to our representatives and say, but this is happening in other states.

[01:36:54] And when I say dots, you know what I mean. And there is no doubt that VDOT is among the most conservative and resistant to change of many of the dots. Just saying, just to put that in your, and you all know that, I'm sure, but at some point they really need to be in the past.

[01:37:17] Having said that, one thing that I do that really had a successful, and I wanted to point this out to you, Because you all probably remember the meeting where I was so frustrated about trucks not using, ignoring the through truck.

[01:37:33] And actually, VDOT did what I asked. I think at least on the Around the Edges, it's helped some. Instead of having that road restriction, route number 68493, they went in on my signs, Georgetown Road.

[01:37:52] Let's get them to do that more often, because when truck drivers are driving, they don't know what State Route 6426 is, but they know Georgetown Road more likely, and it has actually helped.

[01:38:08] They went into Barracks Road and Georgetown Road area, and all of those through truck restrictions, they put in the name of the road. They can do it. Just something to think about. Thank you. Now we should go to the rural chapter.

[01:38:27] I do want to begin with the same round. The last one that I had made a note on and didn't remember it until a comment from Street Trees, which I think is halfway mentioned, of course, if you don't have shade, like all the multimodal transit in the world doesn't really help me.

[01:38:50] I suggest that there's reference in, I think, two different actions to Street Trees. There's not a reference to climate or heat islands or anything of this sort, And I'm not sure that street trees alone are an adequate tool at all times to deal with weather and climate concerns that citizens have that create an obstacle.

[01:39:15] The two kind of dueling examples I can thank right off of the city's new Avon Bridge project, which I adore. Street trees will probably eventually become robust in offering shade, but right now it is still an onerous task to cross that bridge in the summer.

[01:39:35] And I doubt it experiences as much traffic as it should in the summer. On the flip side, like, naturally planning around pre-existing shade and climate concerns, we can look at, like, Biscuit Run Greenway, the proposed Biscuit Run Greenway.

[01:39:51] We have natural cooling coming off the river, but we have each shade already in existence next to an employment center to a residential center. But also deeply climate-vulnerable to planning. December and January, it was not usable in its current state.

[01:40:08] I guess I just raised this all to say, I think concerns around climate and environment need to be, this is our big resilience, but buzzword for this calendar year, right? We need to actively planning around experience, like experience of climate and weather.

[01:40:29] I'm not sure that's captured by the state when we're talking about multivolt. So I think Chair Andrews already kind of alluded to this and his desire to talk about it.

[01:40:49] But so we talk about in the intro, we talk about the desire to prioritize and emphasize planning around safety concerns in the rural area. And I look at where we're most realizing that through actions, mostly see, look at that, and it seems to me that it still does not catch what I feel like are the resident concerns I hear the most related to safety, which is around normally intersections that VDOT has already said we don't care.

[01:41:24] We do not care because we do not have the kind of traffic, we do not have the kind of incident or fatality data, give us cause to invest in it, such a low throughput area, and so we don't care. I can think of like three specific intersections off the top of my head.

[01:41:42] There's one on Secretary Sands, there's two on James River Road, one at the James River Road intersection on 20, the other at the really wonky Warren Ferry section. I get complaints about those roads frequently, and VDOT on each of those has said, we don't care, because there's just not the data showing it.

[01:42:03] And so I would suggest that if this is something that we do, that we want to lean in as a priority on safety concerns related to rural transit. I'm not sure we have a tool in our toolkit currently for how we might manage that. And I don't, maybe the answer is surprising proof that there's not a tool.

[01:42:21] We don't own those roads. I see that kind of concern contemplated in the plan currently, and I know that is certainly something I hear about. And especially if we're trying to figure out how to energize pockets of the rural area for service delivery, for, like, key services so that people don't have to exclusively drive into the development area in their lives, that's going to be the required tool in that tool.

[01:42:51] I mean, like, the intersections, the kind of thorny nest of intersections around, like, the Green Mountain Storm at Keene, right? is already a mess, and if we're trying to, if we're envisioning that as a place that people might, like, experience community, um, in some kind of planning document, we don't have the accompanying transportation toolkit to kind of handle that. Existing roads, I mean, the response I might sometimes get to talk about crossroads communities is, our roads aren't equipped to deal

[01:43:26] with that, that's dangerous. And in its current state, that might be true, right, with significant more traffic, right? Um, 1.7, um, this is unique to the rural chapter, and I'm actually not clear why. So this talks about the need for an equity lens in evaluating transportation. So there's two things here. One, that seems like it also applies to the development area. Maybe I missed it, maybe it's there, but I don't think I saw a corollary to this in the development area. It feels like it

[01:44:03] deserves one. I'm not sure there's anything there that is unique to the rural. And the other thing I would raise is I think it's correct to flag equity in the term, in the universe of transit and transportation. I think equity normally and primarily implicates concerns about disability. That is the right flag.

[01:44:29] There are other things an equity lens could implicate in the context of transit. How you're fracturing or disrupting historic communities is the main one that comes to mind. This happens around transit planning lens that might be something that should be considered. Making sure that equity lens does not entirely constrain itself to thinking about accessibility in the terms of disability, but how it is equally serving different communities, how it is preserving existing historic communities,

[01:45:03] whether or not it has some kind of negative externality related to any set of classes. Those would be the things I would think when I hear equity ones, and I'm not sure that it's fully captured. And I see word three, not trail shared use path.

[01:45:26] Get me excited. And maybe it will be finished, or I'm dead. That's all I got. I'll probably see it. You didn't hear what he said.

[01:45:53] I'm not coming under the table. Let it come. Okay. So I'm looking at the action items under the ones right now. Why their shoulders may be implemented?

[01:46:09] I thought I was told years ago that there was an agreement with VDOT that when they paved road, they would add asphalt, I would love to say asphalt, but asphalt, as much as possible to the edge of the road.

[01:46:34] Obviously, we have rural roads, but there's no way that they could be wide. It would cost hundreds of millions of dollars if you took Garth Road and tried it. Right, having said that. But we had some sort of an agreement that when they paved, they would not just pave that area, but they would widen it as much as possible.

[01:46:55] Now, it may get into the substructure underneath and not being able to do that, and they say, well, that won't hold up and it'll crack, and I get all that. I just thought we had an agreement with VDOT, something like that. Is that, do you all? I am saying yes.

[01:47:13] 2002, absolutely. There you go. And I had noticed occasionally, maybe it was Garth Road, it looked like they paved Garth Road at one point and went further out with the paving than I would have expected.

[01:47:33] So I guess looking back at that or thinking about that, like I said, they may have stopped it because if you go out and just put asphalt down further out and you don't have that substructure underneath to support it, then you end up with a big mess so i but it i do remember that okay having said that um so wider shoulders circled there um oh on 1.3 i took a big x and said new roads should be for agriculture and forestry purposes so i don't think that's even realistic help me understand is it because we

[01:48:11] had so much pushback from some of the logging trucks and some is that what why that is i don't I think that the idea behind that is just distinguishing that we are not building roads to enable a future like residential growth.

[01:48:31] So we're trying to separate the more rural activities. We want to support the rural area, and that's why we wouldn't own roads as opposed to building residential. Interesting. And it's not that I'm against forestry or agriculture.

[01:48:49] I just thought that was interesting, and I don't see how you – that was confusing. me, so I put big exits across it. I'll leave it there. And again, the regional, the regional transit, I sort of circled that. I've already talked about that.

[01:49:11] 3.3, collaborate with the Abilene County Police Department and VDOT to refine the county's process, respond to speeding complaints, and proactively reduce speeds. Again, it gets into that reduced speeds enforcement. So we know we have a lot of speeding on rural roads. And I'll tell you, I get a lot of complaints from people on a couple of the roads, if not district garth road specifically and someone out in free union about from vehicle driving you know cars having to wait while all the bicycles you've you all heard this you know the bicycles come

[01:49:48] around come down and the cars are behind the bicycles and there's a lot of friction on those roads between the cars and the bicycles especially on weekends gets back to the economic development bicycle piece and you're going to put a lot of bicycles on these roads for economic development in tourism and then it's a conundrum and how we work that out so um not that i'm against either but there is a conflict um i'm our county police department though in vdot to respond to the police

[01:50:27] department says that there's nowhere to pull over what i hear all the time from the police is we can't enforce speeding on the rural roads because number one we can't give chase and i get that but even if we got stopped them there's nowhere for them to stop i don't know if that no idea if there's something that can be done about that because that's what the police are saying is they can enforce the speed limits better if there was a place for people to pull over i'm just that

[01:51:03] what you offered to me that's true oh yeah that's true um and again safe routes to school that's an obvious i've talked about that in the development area that's a given in both um create safe wildlife crossing areas this really reminds me of afton and the research council did you know the work the studies on afton and see where the conflicts were and then put up fencing and it has reduced

[01:51:42] those i don't know if i'm just wondering if the research you know transportation research council could help us in figuring out where some of those impact areas are.

[01:51:59] They're a state agency. They're always happy to work with governmental agencies, right? And they do some great work, and they might be able to help us. Similar to what we do, I mean, I don't think we can go and fence around everything, but I just wonder, because I'm not sure we even know where these areas are.

[01:52:18] We have worked with the Research Council on that. Oh, you have? We're all geniuses. Bridget was her name that did that program and put up the fence on the section of 64, the big commit. I've seen the presentation that she has where she looked at it going all the way up to Afton as well and they have identified key places.

[01:52:43] The difference there is that there's fewer existing crossings in that area. So it makes it much more difficult. On the section they fenced, there were a lot of places they could direct the wildlife to, but that didn't happen. It wasn't as often as on the other section, on the western section of 64, but I think working with them is a great suggestion.

[01:53:05] Yeah, I would try them and see what their response might be, even if it's just helping us to identify the areas, and then they're really good at coming up with solutions, you know. So I would look to them. Okay. And yes, that's really, Jim, right now, I think some of these are really good, and I just don't have comments.

[01:53:34] Oh, Supervisor Mal. Sorry. I'm not going in front of Supervisor Mal. Thank you very much. I just wanted to add that during the early 2000s chart process, that was the first time I heard about the widening.

[01:53:56] Garth Road was the primary example. Every seven years, we're going to be hitting this road, and they have a special machine that packs stone under the outside edge, and then they pave over the top of it. instead of just putting it in air. So that helps. It's a retrench or something or whatever.

[01:54:12] It's to build up a base. But anyway, about 2009 and the recession, that, so we need to revitalize that. Maybe Sean can dig that machine out of storage and get it to work for. Incredibly helpful, and certainly within their right-of-way, where so many of the rural roads have recruited right-of-way, so they don't even have 16 feet from the center of the road.

[01:54:37] They have only to the edge of the asphalt, and that's it. So those will still make problems for us. But anyway, the 1.1, I always, the congestion on regional routes.

[01:54:53] I mean, if this is focused on the major highways, that's fine. If it's saying we're going to be using congestion as an excuse to make people go faster in rural roads, then we've got a good problem with that. So I think that it's focused on those three, the state-sindificant COSS roads.

[01:55:10] Okay, very good. I definitely prefer the discouraging of new roads, but was this referring to roads on private property? Explain to me, because my question mark was, what does this mean? We're not building developers either.

[01:55:32] On 1.3? 1.3, yes. I think this is really looking at... Paving existing gravel roads, that's one thing, but...

[01:55:47] Yeah, paving existing and discouraging new. It's really something that's tied to, I think, our land use policy, our growth management policy. to discourage the road building for residential.

[01:56:03] So this would be in the planning stages. So like the thing that came to Planning Commission last night where they had apparently made changes instead of all sorts of super long driveway, they were going to bring in extra things along the way. That's another situation where there's continued development, major subdivisions in the rural area that we're going to have to deal with.

[01:56:24] Okay, number four, I just put a great big star, hooray, hooray. continue on on that. We have not mentioned enough. Jaunt exists and has for 30 years take your 20 years for house door-to-door for rural area residents with disabilities or anybody who needs transportation and so that has not been mentioned about continuing to work with them but that sort

[01:56:57] of it's way more I think than getting people to the bus stop because that works in a growth area a situation, but it absolutely does not work in a situation where someone may be perfectly able to work, they just cannot drive for whatever their personal situation is.

[01:57:14] And Jaunt has allowed them to function for years and years. So I didn't want that to be forgotten. Yeah, I mean, 3.3 have said, when you get the cohort in the morning on Garth Road going east and the sun is shining in the car driver's eyes going east and up and down all those hills on Garth Road, it's literally 25 30 minutes for these packs of drivers and i have met with bicycle groups almost annually for

[01:57:50] years oh it's not us you know it's all those independents but i'm thinking curious i saw all these people in your group so it creates tremendous hostility and i think in the rural town halls which i've had for years and years this is a primary concern because drivers are concerned they're going to mow down by mistake. A whole bunch of people they cannot see. Afternoons going west, exactly the same thing. From the Meacham's River going up, there's a 15-minute pull for the bicyclers up that hill going west to Morrowdale, and there's just no way

[01:58:26] to see. So that is a great concern. Our people have been at these meetings with me to try to help. Bicyclers have said, in response to Greg Jenkins years ago, say, well, what do you need from the dryer well we don't even know they're there uh so beep your horn but you know people feel like well maybe they shouldn't do that but now since they mentioned that to me now i do but when they look back over your shoulder like this and see that you're there and there's a long line of cars and still do nothing to pull over that's where that hostility level happens and there's nothing you all can do anything about that but it's concerned that i think education

[01:59:06] as various groups uh pretend to work uh together will be helpful um general assembly this past year, while Virginia carried a bill that did get almost $500,000 for the wildlife crossings developed, and they, I know with that same extension west on 64, they had some projects on this side of the mountain and also in the valley that we're trying to support for. So that's another good, in addition to the Research Council, they have maps and maps and maps of all the research they have done about the high volume areas for crossings.

[01:59:43] Let's, 4.2, absolutely, I know the Plenty District for years off and on has worked on rerouting 76 off of the most dangerous places. I mean, 250 is not fun, and a lot of people have started rerouting themselves through Batesville and come out Dickwoods Road and then up the mountain that way, but Newtown Road is no great shakes either as far as coming through from Greenwood on bicycles, so I think that some extra help working on that would be very well received by those bicycle folks.

[02:00:19] And guess what I wrote after 4.4. There are a lot of people who bicycle commute also. So in addition to the recreational people who want to ride the middle of the day or whatever, there are people who they can solve a few logistical hurdles, would love to be able to bike to work. And it's just not possible right now. In the shower. I used to have them coming into my office. That's the fact that I could use my shower. I mean, I biked to work, but it was in downtown Boston. It was only a short distance so I've always passed open to people in the cars who

[02:00:56] were sitting there for 25 minutes as I was a crew inside but I wouldn't bike on the roads here much more dangerous than in downtown Boston for sure thank you very much. One point to include access management strategies we're planning to improve the rural roads this is really just looking at

[02:01:30] How, you know, the frequent access points on rural roads and maybe addressing the, like, site distance issues, things like that, when you have a lot of access points where you wouldn't expect to have cars coming into another major road, come up with a process to evaluate those, you know, managing all those access points.

[02:01:59] wouldn't that be also consumer lights there's no way you're going to be able to look for all you know line of sight access points all over for every single room in the rural area just yeah i think this is really specific to when we're when we are doing a project okay and how we can enjoy okay well i do know i'm not going to make supervisor a ballot uh but i do know that

[02:02:38] When a winery wanted to enlarge or have a wedding venue, it was a line of sight. They were kind of on a curve, so they had to cut down like four or five big trees. They hated to do that, but that's what VDOT required in order to have, if you wanted to widen the entrance a little bit, to have a line of sight.

[02:03:01] And I think a line of sight is important. I hated to see that, frankly. Okay, that ends that. 1.4, the last sentence, wider shoulders may be implemented to provide space for recreational walking and biking.

[02:03:20] Are you thinking of it? I can't think of anything in my area on a rural road that, first of all, that you could widen it, and that for recreational walking or biking, I wouldn't suggest that anywhere, frankly, in my area.

[02:03:38] I don't know, maybe there would be in different areas, I'm not sure. I can just imagine it's something, the tool in the toolbox that we would use. Should that happen? Should it come up live?

[02:04:00] Last sentence, collaborate. Well, you're talking about significant transportation improvement for goods movement. So we're talking about trucks. You're collaborating with the economic development to identify primary priority routes.

[02:04:20] Is that where to tell large trucks to roads to use? Yeah, I think so, but I think it's focused primarily on our primary routes already being used, so 29 and 250 and access to the 64 and that kind of thing.

[02:04:41] Okay, so if we already have them, I guess I'm not understanding why this is in here. We had talked to Economic Development about making sure that when we're planning improvements to roads like 29, that that is one of the considerations that we're making.

[02:05:09] How it's utilized and how it's affected by my companies that want to ship. Would it be nice if we had a relationship with companies to be able to tell them which roads not to use that they're currently using?

[02:05:25] Any way to put anything in here for that? I mean, I know I don't have the only roads that are heavily traveled with oversized trucks where it's totally restricted.

[02:05:42] I know other areas probably have that, too. And that's just really bugging the heck out of me. I know. It's been a big problem that we've run into. Five years that I've been working on that. Yeah. We'll look into it and see if there's something we can.

[02:06:00] Even, I think, Supervisor Mallard or McKeel mentioned cutouts. you know, in roads, I mean maybe that's so the police can hold on work, because right now they're doing it either at the beginning or the end.

[02:06:15] 2.1, love it. MicroCat is to be able to get people, frankly, of limited means to get them to UVA and shopping and be able to get them there.

[02:06:36] And someone else mentioned about, I think Supervisor Kiel mentioned about airports. So, I mean, maybe there needs to be a, do we have a concerted effort where someone can get from their home using maybe MicroCat and then to a bus that takes you to the airport?

[02:06:55] Pardon? There are no buses to the airport. But MicroCat does service the airport. Yes. But, okay. So right now you can take MicroCat. you're in with within the micro cut zones you can get that to or from the airport. I would think that's something we would really want to expand either to get cat or a small bus. I mean I can't imagine there's a ton of people but you know to be able to get micro cat or a small bus or a regular route because you know they fly they fly out in the early in the morning it's always early in the

[02:07:32] morning at six o'clock, five o'clock, seven o'clock, so, and you're not going to have a lot of traffic at that time. That would be a perfect thing to have to go up there, right? You do need access from the community to the airport, I think, somewhere or not. Yeah, I agree. 3.3, helping the bus, I hope, again, we can have a legislative, maybe the legislative issue of photo speed cameras will pass this time. That would be the help. That's all I have.

[02:08:06] Again, there's a lot of the things that I wanted to mention, so I'll try to keep it brief. But just an overall comment about improving safety on roads. One talks about the major roads, and I don't know where this will go in, because I think it goes in elsewhere.

[02:08:28] I don't think there's been much comment about dangers associated with, and this is something that climate change happens more and more, flooding. There was a mention before about rerouting roads that flooded, but I think there are other ways to just at least, you know, identify them, where they flood, put warning signs up prone to flooding.

[02:08:50] This is one of the things that I think has been really dangerous with some of these big storms that we've had, these roads that have become, if not impassable, very dangerous to drive at high speeds because you can plane really quickly. And if it's possible to sometimes work not just on the road, but on the grading around it, because the Forest Creek or one of the other unidentified or intermittent streams, it may be some way to work on that that's much less expensive than working on the road itself to prevent the continued flooding.

[02:09:26] And along with that, these storms come debris and whether we can not only help figure out how to identify and get debris off the road quickly, but also work on rights and rights so that debris issues are very difficult in the rural areas and it's also a major problem in the rural areas.

[02:09:48] Even still we have trees that are just barely touching 29 in other areas because they fall in and haven't got a chance to clean them up yet, and it's a problem. In 1.4, utilize rural rustic roads program to determine appropriate road changes.

[02:10:08] I'm confused because I think the rural rustic roads program determined appropriate road paving. That was more our unpaved road policies and how we educate people and help them decide whether they think it's appropriate or not to pave their road.

[02:10:27] And it's not just a question of whether they're eligible for the rural rustic road program. So that language confused me. But in the same vein, it also reminded me that I would like to see us and encourage VDOT to do, if it's possible, to count more than just vehicles. So there have been advocates telling us some of these roads are used for a lot of different modalities, and if we can start to count that, it would be helpful in identifying, and this goes back to the recreational, but it also very much impacts ruralistic road programs.

[02:11:05] 1.6, somebody mentioned in one of our write-in comments that should be frequent non-local heavy vehicle traffic. Obviously, this is only about through-truck restrictions and not local truck, which may be there.

[02:11:24] 2.1, notice again that this says within the rural area. It was almost identical to the previous section where it said in the development area, but it's really the same point made in two different places. And those are the only places where those qualifiers are otherwise two separate sections.

[02:11:41] Let's see, a general comment that I think has been made, and I'll just emphasize it, whether it's in 3.3 or elsewhere, is recognizing traffic calming measures in crossroads communities.

[02:12:12] It's certainly been something that's been a priority for some of my constituents that live in crossroads communities is trying to figure out better traffic home in those areas, in the rural areas. And as I mentioned before, again, I don't really see any discussion of the effects of IMPACT greenhouse gas emissions on using roads.

[02:12:39] It's in the development area of the problem. We're going out to be out here, whether it's an objective five or something else, I'm not sure. And that's all I had to say. Whenever you get to that point. Okay. Yeah. All right. I love the, do you want to start in order?

[02:12:58] No, I think we can just go. Okay, the no plan, low plan, you mentioned Henrico, and Henrico and Arlington are the two counties to do their own roads. So just keep that in mind when you're thinking about following Nambus. That may be an extra obstacle for us.

[02:13:14] Airport has refused to have buses for 20 years. So this is something where we can talk to our county executive who represents us on the authority and also our commission appointees, airport commission appointees, because parking for cars is a huge moneymaker to do.

[02:13:33] Every time I've tried to get over that hurdle, they've smacked me back and said, no, no, we're not going to do that. So that's just a little background I wanted to share. I disagree that we should not have trees so that people can see the signs on the buildings because I want people focused on driving, not looking for the signs on the buildings.

[02:13:52] and those big pedestal signs or the signs that were put up during the 29 Solutions work that told people well in advance where various features were, were wonderfully successful. So I would prefer that approach as opposed to trying to have people looking like this for where they're going to turn off for fast food.

[02:14:14] Access points 1.3. When I was fussing at VDOT years ago about the permission which they had given for a rural driveway on an absolutely incredibly dangerous situation where there was like three seconds between when one could see the school bus approaching. I went there and sat in it to wait for the bus and literally that was the time interval that you had in order to pull out or not in both directions.

[02:14:45] And I was told at the time that if Amarillo County Development Department gave an approval for a subdivision for a loan, VDOT could not deny access. So I will push that burden back on CDD to say this is really important that when rural lots, especially because they have, seems like, fewer planning requirements than urban projects, if those are going to be allowed, that element has to be taken into consideration first because it's only a miracle that we haven't had more accidents at some of these places that are just so, so dangerous.

[02:15:21] So I will just provide, that's just a little history for that. And just recently, more people called about loose mirrors because of the trees that are cut off at the edge of the pavement. They get pushed over by a truck in the car in the other direction and lose the mirror on their right-hand side.

[02:15:38] And they're getting real tired of it because it's been there for three years now. So I think that we all have to push on the cleanup crew for that. 1.5. Transportation routes, we had a huge problem with the early teens with, I guess it was just as the mapping GIS stuff was getting started, and huge numbers of 18-wheelers servicing grocery stores and convenience stores in the rural area.

[02:16:19] I'm most familiar with the northern, western part of the county, but 33 come over from Harrisonburg, 810, 743, and then hit all of those super hairpin turns and just incredible damage to the roads as well as trailers falling off and capsizing on the side of the road because their rear wheels fell in the gully. They are on Advance Mills Road. I'm sure Bart is familiar with that corner on his way home.

[02:16:49] So it's more than just the main roads because they will not stay on the main. One saving grace for the Advanced Mills area is the way the bridge was designed with the absolute 90-degree turn to get onto the bridge, not improving too much, 641 from Advanced Mills over to where it joins up with Burleigh Station on the other side.

[02:17:19] Because at least three or four times a year, a trailer will still belly up there and can't stuck and has to get a tow truck to get up onto the high level because they won't believe the truth. But that's another lack of signage thing that I think we could perhaps make an official request with a whole bunch of locations to say these places cannot service 18-wheelers on this road.

[02:17:44] Don't come here because you won't be able to get out. And maybe, I don't know what languages one would choose for the drivers, but I know that many drivers have had a terrible time because they get stuck and then they have language barriers even ask for help.

[02:18:00] And that's really a difficulty for them as well as for the neighbors. So I'll stop there. Okay. I'm just going to mention regarding the trees in front of businesses. I think we need to be flexible there because I know of one restaurant.

[02:18:18] They've gone through three restaurants, and if it's not successful, we don't get the commercial value of it. But yet if you cut down, what happened is – and there's not enough room to put a pediment sign. But if you cut down or if you lower one tree, you can still have some greenery, but you can move one or two trees so that people can see the sign that's on the side that they spend a lot of money for.

[02:18:46] We're trying to keep the business open. So I think not being so cutting off our nose to spite our face, but actually thinking, okay, how can we help this business? And yet still not, still have foliage. So I think the flexibility part is very important.

[02:19:07] Do you have what you need from us? You do. I won't. OK. OK. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Good work on this chapter.

[02:19:25] I'll look forward to the next. The board that brings us to, from the board, matters not listed on the agenda. I'll just look. Go through quickly. I don't know. Can you see it? Lisa, I probably should have done it for you, but I was just curious.

[02:19:44] We talked about the community engagement, and I was really pleased to see that Andrea Copeland has been named the new CEO of the Chamber. So permanent CEO now, not acting or interim or whatever.

[02:20:01] So that's great news for the Chamber, I believe. And I'm getting to this to ask. We talk about transportation. I guess I'm specifically talking about the Albuquerque area more, but I hear from some of the chamber businesses that their employees can't get to work or they're struggling to get some of their employees to work, right?

[02:20:25] So do we reach out to the chamber as one of the groups that we're talking to when we're looking at – because I looked at these focus groups and I didn't see specifically business, but that would just be a suggestion. And I don't – here she goes.

[02:20:42] Here she goes. I think it's a great approach and something that we've been considering is how we can, going into the final stretch of this AC44 engagement process, really sort of target into, we may not have contacted, really like hyper-targeted versus the broad net, which we've been doing.

[02:21:12] And so the chamber, some other stakeholders and community groups are definitely going to be on our list of some targeted outreach over the next couple of months. And I think it will help now that they have a permanent CEO named and she's that. But I would suggest with businesses trying to get employees, the chamber would be a great group to work with.

[02:21:34] And kind of out of context. No, it's appropriate to make that enough. Supervisor Mal. Thank you. I understand that this week Mediacs is supposed to be treating the fire ants in Hollymead. I'm not positive because of all the rain. This may get put off again. But anyway, this is still please, please, people who have not seen the pictures on the mound, the Harbor Extension Office has lots of information about this and I know that the information is in our minutes from the last

[02:22:13] couple of meetings with photographs and things so worry about that lot and also on it here we go the Albemarle Amateur Radio Club will be participating in the national amateur radio event known as the Peel Day noon to noon June 28th and 29th at the earliest volunteer fire department they've been doing this for at least a decade and it is wonderful fun and family oriented kids especially get a big kick out of talking to somebody in Australia or something so I would encourage people to check it out. Thank you very much.

[02:22:50] Thank you. Yesterday morning I had the honor of attending a ballet recital at Stonyport Elementary School. It's a wonderful play that was actually, she developed it.

[02:23:08] Sarah Claiborne, who is the wife of my planning commissioner, Corey Claiborne, for Charlottesville Ballet, did a presentation and incorporated the environment because they did a whole ballet on the O-O bird, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, from Hawaii, in Hawaii.

[02:23:26] And it was fantastic that children, grades K through 6, were just enthralled with the whole thing. And then afterwards they got to dance, they were jumping up and down.

[02:23:41] I was jumping up and down, everyone was jumping up and down. It was really, really sight to behold, so well behaved. And I loved the way that they tied in. Not only the delay, but also with preservation.

[02:23:58] Well, unfortunately, they're the old bird because it's extinct. So, but it lets children know what can happen. And I fire ants to follow up on that. Fire ants are on 29 North, East, and West.

[02:24:15] I've notified the Hollymead HOA. I've notified the Forest Lakes HOA and also Bentomar HOA so that they can tell everyone to look out for. and also our Delegate Amy Lawford, she is aware of it also.

[02:24:35] And I think you heard from probably, I'm going to say at the risk of saying all of us, that I think traffic calming is relevant. To our executives, if there's anything for today.

[02:24:59] Or for their business. And in that case, we will adjourn. Thank you. Our next meeting is scheduled on Wednesday, June 4th at 1 p.m. The main auditorium. Opportunities for the public to access and participate in this meeting are posted on the Appalachia County website on the Board of Supervisors homepage and on the Appalachia County calendar.

[02:25:16] The presentation will include the opportunity to comment on those matters for which comments from the public will be received. Thank you.

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