Coraggio Consulting
Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Housing Committee, Tuesday, August 1, 2023

Date: Tuesday, August 1, 2023
Place: Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 1h 28m (video)
Official meeting video (Fairfax County): https://video.fairfaxcounty.gov/player/clip/2987
Official Board of Supervisors page (Fairfax County): https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/boardofsupervisors/

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-11-03. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:03] that is so good morning everyone okay i have to comment on this apparently uh welcome to the uh housing committee meeting august 1st uh apparently some of you did not get the memo about the barbie

[00:00:32] ties? Come on, guys. I don't know. That's funny. Anyway, on that note, I wanted to start the meeting by introducing our two guests, Melissa McKenna and Lenore Stanton, as many of you

[00:01:11] know, Melissa has been chair of the RHA for many years, and recently there was a change at the RHA. Melissa is now the vice chair in large measure because she's taken on one of the neatest jobs in Fairfax County, being the executive director or president of the Dulles Regional Chamber of commerce, which is just awesome. But Melissa represented Drainsville since 2013, or still

[00:01:44] represents Drainsville since 2013, and I think housing advocates across the region and every member of this board will recognize as we've witnessed some tremendous advancement in terms of our efforts to address affordable housing issues under Melissa's tenure, and I just wanted to thank her for that and tell her that we look forward to continue working with her as vice chair. And also, Lenore Stanton was elected to replace Melissa. Lenore has represented

[00:02:21] the Solly District since 2019, and she spent several years as an attorney at a very prestigious law firm, and then spent over two decades at Freddie Mac as specializing in securitization financing for single family residences, which nothing else you do is going to be harder than that, I'm sure. So it just sounds very difficult. And a very interesting fact that many of us will appreciate is before going to law school, Leonard was a land use and planning consultant. That

[00:02:58] appeared in your resume uh so we look forward to working with you as chairman and uh if either of you uh want to make a comment you're most welcome thank you sir i um wanted to tell you all thank you for letting me lead this important part of the county's plan to address affordable housing over the last several years and john thank you for appointing me so many years ago um little did i know what a path I would take in that role. Little did I know how long I would sit in this role.

[00:03:31] I am so grateful to be here. I will remind John, as I always do, that he told me it was really easy. It was, you know, not even two meetings a month. And, you know, it was really simple. I mean, so if you're looking to recruit someone, just use the tack that John took and you'll find somebody.

[00:03:48] So I just am so grateful every day. And we recently gave away our first scholarships at the Housing Authority. It was an incredibly moving and incredibly important step in furthering our mission holistically that I'm so proud of. And being there and hearing the stories again directly from our residents, reading those 29 applications was just another kind of, you know, punch in the chest for me about, hey, this is why we do this. We are changing people's lives and we are changing

[00:04:22] generations by doing the things that we do. And I thank you for your commitment to this mission and for letting us lead and find those opportunities. I will take this opportunity as well to say that without the tremendous staff that we have in place, none of this would happen. So thank you to everyone at HCD, particularly Tom and now newly Anna sitting here around the table for all of the hard work that you do to find those little nuggets and turn them somehow from a nugget into gems that we have now scattered across, as Jeff would say, the four corners of the county.

[00:04:59] So we are doing great things, and I appreciate the opportunity I've had to lead. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, please. Lenore. Thank you. Thank you very much. I just need to start by thanking Melissa.

[00:05:16] I have learned so much, and for thanking Kathy, who also kind of fibbed a little bit when she put me here in 2019. it had it's a lot of work and it's great work and the work would not at all be possible without the staff I mean I learned from them every single time I get an email or a meeting or a document look at them and um it's amazing how much work they do for us and make it so much easier and give us the opportunity to they do all the hard work behind the scenes all the financing all the bond documents all the stuff that we can read it but being able to come in the room and actually

[00:05:51] make it all happen because of them behind us is what really gets makes the county move and um i've been on a lot of the subcommittees and a lot of the cc facts and listen i've both worked on a lot of the background and there's just so many people involved and when we get to the table and there's 12 of us and it looks easy kathy um it's not at all so we know what's going into it and i just really excited about this opportunity i'm really excited melissa will be sitting right there all the time for for as long as i can make her sit right there um and this is great i'm excited so thank you all and it's great to meet you all thank you very much and we look forward to working with

[00:06:30] you uh chairman mckay yeah just uh very briefly um melissa i wanted to thank you because the last you know you've chaired this now a little over three years right and so when when history is written I think we'll all realize that over the last three years we've created more affordable housing opportunities in this county by volume I'm sure than any other three-year period of time in the county's history and that happened while you were chair and you know Melissa and I spend this is a good thing spend a lot of time in all corners of the county at ground breakings and

[00:07:07] ribbon cuttings it seems like almost seems like every week I know it's not that frequent but it's close uh that were at those events and and you know it's just you've just done an amazing job the entire rha as you mentioned with staff um has done an amazing job but um you will forever be that chair that you know accomplished that during that period of time and and i know it wasn't just you was it was a ton of people and you'd be the first to say that um but that leadership was necessary uh through you and i think probably the proudest moment is the volume piece but as you

[00:07:42] said before, that we have been to every corner of this county building affordable housing and have made that a huge piece of our agenda here for the past couple years. And so I know it's been a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of fun at times, but a lot of effort put in to do that. And certainly, Lenora, your background's amazing. So, you know, we're looking forward to working with you. And don't feel bad because I think all of us at some point in time have been told the same things you were told which is do this because it'll be easy won't take much time you'll have

[00:08:16] your nights and weekends free that type of message and and so usually it's the people who are the most talented have the least amount of free time that do these things and and you all are both that and so thank you Melissa for your years of service and Lenore look forward to continuing the progress that we've had over the past couple years for many years to come so and Melissa I'm so glad you're staying on. I'm as glad as Lenore is that you're staying on the RHA because your voice is still necessary, and we're so glad that while you're stepping aside as chair, you're certainly

[00:08:55] not stepping aside from your passion and the work that you do at RHA, so thank you. Thank you. Well, I appreciate so much your coming out and giving us the opportunity to I recognize you, but I also understand that if you have other commitments, you don't have to sit in those seats for the next hour and a half, but it's up to you.

[00:09:18] You're certainly welcome to stay, but thank you so much. Thank you, sir. After getting my daughter married this past weekend, I feel a little behind at work, so I am going to go back to my job and wish you all a great meeting. Thank you. Thank you all, and I look forward to working with you all.

[00:09:34] And I did leave Freddie Mac, and then I was bored being retired, so I went back. So I actually have a job, too, today. All right. Thank you so much. Okay. There were minutes of our last meeting distributed. Did anyone have any changes or comments on those minutes?

[00:09:53] If not, no changes. The minutes are accepted. Okay. So we have a good and interesting meeting today. First of all, we're going to get the brief progress report, which is hard to keep brief given the progress that's being made, but we thank you for that, Tom.

[00:10:14] Then we're going to talk about the administrative guidelines for multifamily affordable housing preservation, and the board will recall that in March, we adopted the affordable housing preservation policy and added it to the comprehensive plan. Today, we're going to review the administrative guidelines that, when adopted, will help clarify and interpret the preservation policy. Assuming there are no significant issues identified today, the plan of action is to finalize the administrative guidelines and bring them

[00:10:47] before the board for public hearing on September 26th. The other item on the agenda is an item to create opportunities for workforce homeownership. This item responds to the board's prior direction to staff to evaluate how the board could contribute to delivering low and home ownership to low and moderate income earners in the county.

[00:11:18] Today, we're going to seek the board's input on possible program that could be paid for by available state and federal funds, I think, and based on the input from today's meeting, staff will continue to revise the proposal. We hope, if the Board likes the concept, we hope to be able to present a final draft at the November Housing Committee meeting.

[00:11:45] With that, I would turn the meeting over to Mr. Fleetwood. Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. Tom Fleetwood with the Department of Housing and Community Development. As has become our custom in the Housing Committee meetings, we're going to do a brief update on our progress since our last meeting.

[00:12:04] And we've continued to work on a number of fronts, including, of course, new development, our policy initiatives, preservation, as well as homelessness governance. Jump right into our construction work. We have over 1,000 units under construction, as you can see, all over Fairfax County, over 1,000 underway or having just been delivered.

[00:12:30] In our development pipeline, we also have well over 2,000 units in our immediate pipeline with many more that are coming right behind them. You can see, again, a wide variety of projects all over Fairfax County.

[00:12:49] I am particularly pleased to note that the Lamb Center project, the Permanent Supportive Housing Project in the City of Fairfax, was awarded its low-income housing tax credits. and as was the first phase of residences at the government center, too.

[00:13:09] So those are a couple of very significant wins for us on the tax credit with respect to the competitive tax credits, and those projects will be moving forward. At long last, we've delivered North Hill.

[00:13:27] I know that you all have been hearing about it for many, many years, but we did we did finally open the north hill project earlier this summer i just wanted to thank supervisor stork again for all of your leadership in getting us to this point chairman mckay thank you this was a major step forward in in terms of being able to deliver high quality well-designed affordable housing using using a public private partnership to deliver truly a mixed income mixed tenure type intergenerational community and we're we're very proud of it and

[00:14:06] thank you it only took 40 years an overnight success um with respect to affordable housing preservation um there are two uh two things that i want to report out on uh today you'll be hearing of course a an update on the latest language with respect to the preservation uh guidelines And also, I'm very pleased to report that we are moving forward with the preservation of Coraline Gardens in the Mason District.

[00:14:40] We have selected a developer, and we expect to proceed with the developer in terms of getting the project closed. We anticipate closing in January of 2024. Our WDU For Sale Task Force, again, this is a task force that you asked us to get underway to look primarily at the income served in the WDU For Sale Program.

[00:15:12] The task force is hard at work. We've brought on HR&A Associates as our third-party consultant to assist us with the financial analysis going forward. and we do expect that we're going to be able to deliver recommendations later this year.

[00:15:30] As Chair McKenna mentioned, the FCRHA awarded its first scholarships this year under our new scholarship program that was made possible via our Moving to Work Authority.

[00:15:49] We made awards to 10 deserving residents of our housing who represent a range of ages and interests, people who are going to be studying law, who are going to be studying nursing, and who are truly investing in our community.

[00:16:09] And I just want to introduce a couple of them to you virtually here. Isra and Sharon talking about their, what affordable housing has meant to them. Isra, who's the young woman on the right, is planning on studying law. Next, Yolanda and Ashley, who, you know, talk about, you know, the criticality of affordable housing in terms of family stability and a path to self-sufficiency.

[00:16:38] All of our awardees were at the Housing Authority meeting the other night, and it was such an inspiration to hear their stories and the difference that our programs are making in their lives. With respect to homelessness governance We have begun recruitment for the continuum of care board for the direction that we got from the board We have requested that all of you submit nominees by August 15th if at all possible and we're looking at having the appointments and confirmations done in

[00:17:13] September at at your appointments at the meeting where the appointments will be done in September and that mr. Chairman concludes my update. I'm happy to answer your questions. Thank you, Mr. Fleawood. Did anyone have, yes, Chairman McKay. Thank you, and it's just always good to see this in one place. This is very helpful, a lot going on. I guess I had two questions. One, on page four in the development pipeline, we see the various stages that these are in, design, land use entitlement process or financing, but are you

[00:17:52] Getting a lot of interest in very early stage Continuation of this type of volume. That's not necessarily in the formal Pipeline here because it hasn't reached any of these stages, but are we still seeing enough? Opportunities coming through the door where we can look at page four and feel like for at least the next couple years This page is always going to be full even though some of these projects are moving into a completion stage mr chairman and i may ask our deputy director anna shapiro to speak to this as well we are confident that at least for the next couple of years we're going to have a very

[00:18:31] significant volume and we continue to have a very significant amount of interest in our public private partnership work and as you're aware the board has continued to take steps forward in terms of moving properties to the housing authority to you know to execute these projects for which we are very grateful um so at this point we are you know we do anticipate having this volume um you know certainly from a capacity perspective you know that continues to be a concern for for hcd

[00:19:03] um but but in terms of volume and demand absolutely hi anna shapiro department of housing It's also important to remember that we are constrained by the state's financing mechanisms. The low-income housing tax credit is one of the important tools that we use and that we partner with developers on to actually make these happen, and we know that it's a very, very competitive space at the moment.

[00:19:28] We've had great projects who haven't been able to be awarded in the past and even this year, so it's really important to remember that while we have all these in process, they're constantly changing and morphing when we're not able to kind of, you know, go the sort of plan a route uh so that's really important that while the pipeline is what it is and we are going to constantly try to add to it um the sort of shifting is is sort of a just a constant beast that we're working through um and that these projects also just thinking about sort of timeline end up taking about five to eight years in a good market right so that's um just

[00:20:03] really important to remember that as we go towards our goal of 10 000 over the next 11 years or yeah that we are you know that a lot of these projects won't deliver tomorrow that we do have a lot of you know a lot of work that needs to go into even the pipeline that we have today including sourcing the new deals that are coming in the door and we do talk to a lot of developers they have a lot of great ideas they see a lot of opportunity in the county and we're really excited about that and we try to you know encourage those that are feasible and that are really kind of that we can commit to

[00:20:33] Good. And I asked that question because obviously this is a lot, but as you well mentioned, we have that 10,000 goal and just want to make sure we're continuing to stay on track towards that because it's an impressive number on here. My second question is with the scholarships, are you envisioning this being an annual opportunity, and how were these advertised to, was this something that went out to everyone who participates in one of our housing programs, and they were selected by the RHA?

[00:21:05] Just maybe help us understand a little bit about the process and kind of the future of that program, because it seems promising. So we do anticipate that this would be funded on an annual basis, And the outreach that was done for the scholarships was done to all of the participants in our rental programs.

[00:21:25] And there was very consistent communication coming out of HCD to our residents about the opportunity. And we received, we were far oversubscribed, as you can imagine. And the stories that were told by our applicants as part of the process, you know, it was really inspiring to see.

[00:21:50] And the funds could be used for what specific types of uses? So for tuition, tuition only. And they would be paid to the institution. It could be for technical school. It could be for, you know, two-year community college.

[00:22:06] It could be for a four-year university. Very good. Thank you. Yes, sir. Thank you. One of the downsides of retiring is I'm losing my Fairfax County email at the end of the year.

[00:22:25] And I've got a lot of things that I want to keep track of. So, Tom, when I get a new email address, I want to make sure that you can promise me that you'll keep me in the loop. The First Christian Church, the Coraline Gardens, and now also, and I should have, I didn't give you a highlight that I was going to ask this question, but at the last meeting, at our last board meeting, we transferred or authorized the transfer of county-owned property next to Alter Crossing in Bailey's Crossroads for potential development.

[00:22:59] At the time, I didn't really give a whole lot of information, just we were transferring. Could you give us just a thumbnail sketch of the process now that the board has authorized the transfer and what you anticipate happening on that site?

[00:23:16] Because, again, that's another one I won't be around to oversee. Number one, Supervisor Gross, he can count on regular emails from me with respect to these. Second, with respect to the property in the southeast quadrant, going forward, the board will be holding a public hearing, and then as part of that public hearing, you will presumably approve the transfer.

[00:23:44] Following that, what your staff would do is get to work on preparing a request for proposals. It would be a solicited request for proposals through PPEA. In terms of what we're hoping to see there, we're hoping to see a, you know, 100-plus unit affordable development coupled with perhaps a child care center.

[00:24:09] So it's not quite souped yet. Okay. But generally speaking, that would be the sequence of events. Thank you, Ben. And then, forgive me, and then we would go through our usual process through the FCRHA of selecting and negotiating with a developer.

[00:24:26] And we have already, I might add, received interest from developers about it. Good. One of the things I would hope that because it's immediately adjacent to the new Altacrossing development and it's moving along, they've got the parking deck started and the elevator shafts going up.

[00:24:46] But I think it would be, from a design perspective, probably a good idea to look at what Altacrossing is looking like and make it very compatible so it's almost a wrap along that particular section of Columbia Pike.

[00:25:03] I think that would be architecturally appropriate so that it's not two stovepiped kinds of locations, but the colors and everything will be complementary. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[00:25:20] Walter. Thank you very much. Question on slide four, if you could go back and appreciate the chairman's question on that. this is fantastic progress. I'm very excited about it. We do have a ways to go in future years, but this is a tremendous start. I think this probably is the biggest three-year number of units that we've ever done, probably by a good amount, actually.

[00:25:49] My question is this. On the financing, and I understand the state tax credits are a little bit outside of our control but on the local financing and what we're putting in locally is this all paid for uh with current money uh or what is in our budget guidance how are we doing on the financing on our part um and shapiro um so there is actually a variety um right now so for example stonegate village is still in the process of kind of pre-development um similarly uh you know a lot of projects have not been through our notice of funding availability process which is

[00:26:26] how we award funding. I would say, so Telestar recently got awarded and approved by the board. Westox is still in the pre-development stages. It's in the design stage. Little River Glen is also, the financing is still in development. Dominion Square has been awarded. We've closed on the land, and also Amazon recently closed with Amazon on a pre-development loan. That will close at the end of the year. Somos was not awarded 9% tax credits, so we are looking at how to restructure that currently. And the residences at the government center was awarded 9% tax credits

[00:27:02] for the first phase. And so it's been, the first phase is committed. It'll go, we expect it to apply for the NOFA this year for the second phase. Pendaw and, Pendaw, Franconia are still in planning stages. Lamb Center has been awarded and the First Christian Church. We expect to come into the NOFA this year as well. Thank you, Anna. What does that mean in terms of how much we at the board of supervisors have appropriated uh and including arpa funds and i know i know that's history at this point but supervisor alcorn if i might suggest we do we owe we will send to the

[00:27:39] board a nip okay is what i would suggest with a more fulsome accounting of the projects versus the money that's been appropriated versus what the delta is um so that you can have that information That would be great, Tom. And, again, I'm not looking for specific project accounting.

[00:27:58] I'm looking sort of overall as the group of projects. Where are we in terms of keeping up with our local part in terms of paying for them? So thank you, Tom. Appreciate it. Yes. Doyle. Thank you, Chair Faust. First of all, I just have to add on the congratulations.

[00:28:14] I mean, I think we're almost a third of the way to our goal once these are completed. And so it's just very exciting. I know all of us want to make sure we get there and keep pushing forward, and we'll keep doing that, and it's so hard to really look at what we've done so far and really honor that.

[00:28:30] So thank you for sending this to us. I know all of us here keep saying, find more, find more in our district, so I appreciate all you've done, and Anna, clearly you have all the financing in your head, so thank you. I think my only question here, because as you've mentioned, there's so many different paths we're looking at, and I know we have a few presentations coming up.

[00:28:50] I'm pretty excited about First Christian Church, and I know Vice Chair Gross will be watching it closely, and I think it's an exciting opportunity. And I know I've had a few churches and faith communities start to look at it. They've maybe heard through the grapevine that there are specific persons who are able to help a lot of them. But have we heard from more? Are we seeing this first project with the faith community really roll out and bring interest in others? And is Is there anything else we could be doing to help some of those churches or faith communities looking to build on their land?

[00:29:29] So thank you for that question, Supervisor Palachick. A couple of things. You know, we look at First Christian as sort of the leader, and we're looking forward to moving that one forward. We do also at the Lamb Center also effectively as a faith-based project.

[00:29:48] I think that, you know, there is a lot of work to be done with these congregations in terms of decision-making. That's sort of the first, you know, kind of hump that you need to get over, and we have not, as of yet, beyond First Christian and the Lamb Center, seen a lot of traffic on that just yet, but we remain very open to it and certainly understand the opportunity that they could potentially present.

[00:30:18] And if I could add, and I think that it actually would be great if, you know, if you all reach out to your communities and if there are opportunities or if they want to explore what that looks like, we're happy to, you know, to meet with faith communities to really talk through kind of how the process works, sort of the timeline, and connect them.

[00:30:35] We have a list of potential partners that we've developed through our preservation program that could also be leveraged as potential contacts to sort of start to think about partnerships because that is really important that, you know, that sort of mission-based organization partner with a really sophisticated development team.

[00:30:51] And I appreciate that. Clearly, this is not what most faith communities do day-to-day, and so it can be a little daunting. So we'll definitely reach out if we do have more interest. Thank you. Thank you, Supervisor Polcic. Supervisor Stork. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all, absolutely.

[00:31:11] North Hill, I mentioned 40 years earlier, and that's really a fact. But in reality, what's happened is the last, I would say, six to eight years, we've come together and we've focused on it like a laser. You all have focused on it like a laser.

[00:31:27] I know that I have as well. And we had a number of bumps along that road for sure. And I would call it the slide. It wasn't the electric slide. It was the potential clay slide that I know was one of our biggest concerns, the hill that was taken out and the wall that needs to protect that.

[00:31:45] a marine clay that's endemic to our to least to this part of the county so again very much appreciated do we have a date for occupancy permits is that clear and you may not know that but I just would like to get an update I I know we're closed but I didn't I haven't heard the date we can double check but almost all the buildings have their permits now in our leasing okay and move-ins believe move-ins are underway at this point okay yeah we'll we'll double-check and make sure thank you and thank you all and I think the list is

[00:32:20] is fantastic it's definitely I think identifies I think the projects where we are but some of the projects that I know are at least out there and I know I think the chairman was kind of referencing this is for example around Mo Mata and their properties in particular Huntington has opportunities there and I know it's not at that stage but how do we ultimately count for those or is there some way, is there some, like, list that's in the bullpen, if you will, that we can use?

[00:32:55] So that's helpful to me, and I know probably other, my colleagues, to get a sense of what you all see are opportunities. Even if they don't make it to fruition, we at least know we can be kind of monitoring and supporting and trying to engage, in this case, WMATA, to move along their own efforts in this regard.

[00:33:19] We have in the past taken sort of a set of opportunities that we've identified and visited with board members and looked at properties in their district and gotten feedback. I would suggest that, to your point, it's probably time for us to do that again, and we certainly would be very pleased to do that on an individual basis with board members.

[00:33:45] I think it would give us all an idea of where we are with the 10,000, if you will. We know that that's, frankly, just a start, but that is our commitment, and we know it's only going to get more challenging, it's not less. Market affordable preservation, I don't know where that fits into the – I know there's been a number of units that were acquired, and at least in the – I would say the Mount Vernon District, but I know it's really Francona-Mount Vernon-Richmond Highway Corridor, and they're not in here, even though I know that they're coming online, if you will, as a kind of dedicated – How do we fit that in, and where do you see that?

[00:34:24] So a couple things on that, and I may turn to my colleagues as well. We are constantly monitoring the situation with the market affordable properties. As you know, we recently did an updated inventory.

[00:34:41] Great work, yep. We are – so much of that is opportunity-driven. And, you know, I think that, you know, to this point we've been pretty effective in terms of responding to opportunities. I think, you know, certainly the landings one and two is a great example.

[00:35:01] The Colvin project in the Hunter Mill District, city side. So, you know, I would, in the last two years, I think we have preserved approximately 1,000 units, which is. I know it's close to 1,000 in along Richmond Highway Corridor, Mount Vernon District.

[00:35:17] by itself. That's right, with city side. So we're continuing to monitor those, and our preservation officer is hard at work keeping your finger on the pulse of the market. Thank you, and obviously very pleased to see that all the districts in Fairfax County have affordable housing projects that are either online or close to being done, and I think that's a statement about our own commitment to making sure that that's a county-wide development. And last but not least, I want to thank Tom Barnett. I think all of you who have worked with him know that he does a great job

[00:35:55] particularly engaging the community. We had a difficult meeting on Thursday night where we're talking about not only affordable housing, but in this case our fire station and emergency housing, I like to call it, because I think it's different than the homeless shelters of the past. And Tom did a great job, I think, of responding and addressing the needs and concerns of the community while still trying to make sure that we all understand what those issues and concerns truly are.

[00:36:23] So I wanted to share that publicly and with you as well. So thank you. Very good. Thank you. Thank you, Tom. Thanks for keeping us informed, and thank you for keeping our progress moving forward.

[00:36:39] We're now going to turn to our discussion of the Administrative Guidelines for Affordable Housing Preservation. Megan Van Dam will be making the presentation. Good morning, everyone.

[00:36:57] My name is Megan Van Dam with the Department of Housing and Community Development. I'll be giving the presentation. Bree Fuller, who is our preservation officer, is not able to join us this morning. In addition to Anna and Tom, we're also joined by Kelly Atkinson as well in the audience from the Department of Planning and Development who has been a constant partner in this endeavor and will be as we move forward with these administrative guidelines and preservation opportunities as well. So as Supervisor Faust mentioned, we last presented the guidelines

[00:37:32] in May. That was prior to their publication and public engagement on the draft guidelines. So today we'll provide an update as we move forward to finalizing the draft and prepare for the presentation and potential adoption in September. So the affordable, just as a bit of background, the Affordable Housing Preservation Policy sets forth the goal of the one-for-one replacement of multifamily rental units that are both market and committed affordable.

[00:38:05] And those are proposed to be redeveloped or part of an infill development. And the policy also offers additional density to encourage such preservation. And this is in line with the board's goal of no net loss of affordable housing.

[00:38:23] The proposed administrative guidelines provide greater details on the process that aren't laid out in the comprehensive plan itself. And the administrative guidelines also outline how property owners will work with the county to utilize the policy and provide direction on the administration of the preserved units after an entitlement is approved.

[00:38:47] So the components of the administrative guidelines, those have not changed. It's the same as how we've presented in May. They go over the applicability of the policy to both rezoning cases as well as potential comprehensive plan amendments.

[00:39:03] They include the review process of preservation proposals that are utilizing the property, the goals for the replacement units such as the AMI levels and the number of bedrooms, The administration of preserved units post entitlement and occupancy, as well as the inclusion of the need for relocation assistance plans to existing tenants during the redevelopment process.

[00:39:31] Since we last briefed the Housing Committee in May, we've conducted the outreach, as I mentioned, to gather feedback on the draft guidelines. A draft of the guidelines was available on our website from June 1st through the 30th, along with a public comment form for stakeholders to provide us with direct feedback.

[00:39:51] We hosted two virtual engagement sessions that were attended by members of the public, industry professionals, property owners, and advocates. The links to both of these sessions were posted on our website, and a video of one of the sessions was made available on the website as well.

[00:40:08] We sent letters to the property owners of market and committed affordable units to let them know about the draft. And the public information sessions and we gave them also the ability to provide input We conducted also we also conducted targeted outreach with members of industry to get their perspective on the guidelines We spoke to NBBIA, NAOP, the Affordable Housing Advisory Council as well as various land use attorneys and affordable housing providers So just to go over some of the themes from the outreach we overall

[00:40:45] I'd say commenters gave positive feedback on the proposed factors that we're using to determine if a site has affordable units on it. There was also positive comments about the new opt-in guidelines for market affordable properties that have rents between 61 and 80 percent of the area median income, which which is above the 60 percent AMI threshold that was set forth in the policy.

[00:41:20] Another major theme of the feedback related to the need for predictability in the process, and there were requests for review timeframes saying that that would be beneficial in the assurity of the process.

[00:41:39] We've been working with DPD on what those time frames might look like, and we plan to try to identify and estimate those time frames, and we can make that available as we talk about -- as we publish the administrative guidelines online.

[00:41:55] We do need to take into -- we acknowledge that there's -- that would, of course, contribute to greater predictability in the process, but we want to make sure that we are -- we We have realistic expectations for staff capacity. We receive positive feedback as well about the flexibility in the guidelines for property owners to show what it would take to get to the one-for-one replacement, but also the openness to alternative scenarios that might be less than one-for-one in consideration for the needs of the tenants or other project or planning objectives.

[00:42:32] Finally, we received feedback on the need to provide clear relocation plans based on the Fairfax County relocation guidelines, which we'll talk about momentarily. So the revisions to the guidelines are included in the materials.

[00:42:49] You all have both the markup from the May document as well as a clean version of the guidelines. We also sought feedback on the idea of preserving units off-site if it would not be feasible to locate preserved units on the site of a redevelopment proposal and factors for the location of off-site units.

[00:43:15] The goals of the off-site units would be still to retain the affordability that exists on the primary site and to provide off-site units that are close to the current site with comparable accessibility and amenities. So the feedback was focused on the factors for how to do this and how to include the location of the offsite units.

[00:43:39] So we were looking at what we had put out for public comment was considerations for the location of offsite units within one mile of the primary redevelopment site, as well as where there would be comparable access to transportation and transit, schools, public facilities and commercial and employment centers.

[00:44:03] So the feedback overall supported this option and the factors that we had put out, but acknowledged that the relocation of units off-site may not be -- it may be more complicated, and it also could complicate the relocation proposals if the new units off-site were already occupied.

[00:44:29] So speaking of relocation, the draft administrative guidelines state that the relocation assistance plans should be submitted as part of the preservation proposal, making reference to the current Fairfax County relocation guidelines.

[00:44:45] Those relocation guidelines assist developers in creating effective relocation plans and cover the following topics on the slide. So circumstances where relocation plans should be utilized, pertinent relocation terminology, measures that can be taken to retain existing residents, how to accommodate tenants who do qualify to return to the property, as well as how to address permanent location of tenants who might not be able to return to the property.

[00:45:16] These guidelines, as we talked about in May, were last adopted in 2012. And so we wanted to spend some time on this last slide mapping out the strategy for the update of those guidelines and the time frames that we'd like to work with.

[00:45:32] So we are forming an internal staff work group from various divisions within the housing department who have experience or involved in relocation. And this is not just related to preservation as well if there are rehabilitation of units that we have as well.

[00:45:54] So we want to kind of cover all bases. So over the next two months, this group will review the document and identify areas of improvement, identify gaps within the document, especially using the One Fairfax lens.

[00:46:11] So between September and October, we'll solicit feedback from the public by hosting listening sessions where staff can hear about lived experiences with relocation in areas where the guidelines can be improved, as well as working with advocates, developers, and other stakeholders.

[00:46:29] This will help us formulate recommendations on the update, and we plan to provide the update at the November Housing Committee on input that has been received and draft revisions to the guidelines. So, in conclusion, today we're looking for additional feedback as we finalize the guidelines.

[00:46:50] We are preparing an administrative item for the September 12th board meeting to authorize the hearing on the preservation guidelines at the September 26th board meeting. While the hearing may not be required, we do think that it's important to have one to allow stakeholders to provide additional comments directly to you all on this new process.

[00:47:09] And then following that, we will come back to you all with the updates to the relocation guidelines. So that concludes my presentation. Thank you for that excellent presentation. Just clarification, the administrative guidelines will be presented to the board for approval, if all goes well, today, or at least for consideration with a public hearing on September 26th.

[00:47:40] The relocation guidelines will be brought back to the board committee in November and it is There's no issue with respect to approving the administrative guidelines without having a set of relocation guidelines in place This is megan. No, we don't believe so we'd currently the relocation guidelines are available to be used

[00:48:12] Granted, they are dated, but overall, the material within them would work to, if there were relocation needs, we could use that as we work through the process. Okay. Do we have good, we're getting better.

[00:48:28] Yes. Very good. Mr. Chairman? Yeah, just a comment and a question. I think the themes from the outreach, I mean, obviously predictability and flexibility are going to be key here. And I know that the one-for-one replacement or the net no-loss goal is aspirational.

[00:48:48] And obviously, it's going to be determined on a case-by-case basis because those of us who have, all of us who have worked on these over the years know no two redevelopments are exactly alike. And so, it's going to be determined, you know, based on a lot of factors. And so, having that flexibility is important.

[00:49:05] But on the predictability part, the review process speed does give me a little bit of pause. And I know that, you know, not the entire review process is certainly not in your hands. But with regard to the preservation proposals review and the work that you will do administratively to review these applications with the applicant is going to take some time.

[00:49:29] And I'm sure the answer is depending on the complexity and the size of the redevelopment will determine the timeline. But could you give me a little bit clearer understanding of how long will it take you likely to review a preservation proposal?

[00:49:46] And before the preservation proposal, how much time would it take to do an initial evaluation? I know the proposal itself, if I'm reading the guidelines properly, the policy guidelines, the proposal itself is submitted by the person who may be developing or redeveloping a property.

[00:50:06] But before that proposal is submitted, there's a lot of work that gets done on the front end with staff, and I'm trying to understand kind of the totality of the timeline of what those barricades kind of look like and how one who is interested in doing a redevelopment under these guidelines can ensure that they don't get caught up in delays, because obviously the delays could cost the entire redevelopment proposal or could prevent it from even coming forward.

[00:50:34] So help me understand the timing of that and the complexity. Well, I would say part of the complexity relates to information that's available and determining the affordability. You know, we, the preservation officer, is on a monthly basis using COSTAR to track rents.

[00:50:56] And so we're building our library, if you will, of rents that are affordable at the thresholds and above it. But we don't have past information. And so we do need to, and we do expect that there will be some back and forth with property owners as they approach us.

[00:51:20] with preservation proposals to try to nail down where that threshold is and what is the level of affordability. And so what we're expecting, though, is to have a small window of time where we can define affordability, potentially two to four weeks.

[00:51:42] But again, it depends on whether or not there would be how much back and forth is needed with the property owner to ensure that the rents that we have match up with the rent rules that they have on their end as well. So, I mean, hopefully, you know, the COSTAR information is the best, you know, the best information that we have.

[00:52:06] But, you know, there are other discounts, there are other incentives that are provided to renters, that we may need to, we don't have that information, and that might be where the property owner gets involved to provide additional information to us.

[00:52:25] But again, we'd like that window to define the affordability to be pretty tight, since we, you know, from our end, we do have the information available through COSTAR. Okay. I think that's important, because depending on the type of development, there could be very complex financing structure here that you know folks are looking at too and we we obviously don't want to disrupt that that process with unnecessary delays and obviously it's not in anyone's anyone's interest to do that so i would suggest when uh this comes back to the board in

[00:52:57] late september um that we're also given some idea of how aggressive an outreach campaign we can do with industry because it's clear in the guidelines that one of the big factors that will determine this timeline is the encouragement of folks before they submit a plan amendment or before they submit a rezoning application that they have conversations with you about this and there's going to be a lot of folks out there that won't even know that this is in place and so how we communicate this with industry I think a communication strategy that comes forward with

[00:53:32] the new policy would be helpful in helping them and you save time so that you're not doing these once something is already submitted, but hopefully a lot of people take advantage of that early window. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have Supervisor Alcorn and Lust and Walkinshaw and then Gross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, Megan, great work. This is complicated.

[00:53:57] A lot of things to think through here. I do want to focus on the off-site provisions just a little bit. And I guess one of the things I would want to make sure, I'm just curious, are we in this looking at a situation where we could allow a developer to, say, purchase relatively modestly priced condominiums off-site and then dedicate those to be the off-site units? I'm thinking of a situation where you have a two- or three-bedroom

[00:54:30] condo within a mile that might be selling at 250,000. Would that be allowed under this? And I realize this may not be completely thought through. That is a great question. The goal of this was to preserve multifamily rental. So I think we would need to think through how the condominium and the homeownership component could factor into this. If it would, I mean, ideally, if we were to bring that in, you know, it's a great opportunity for affordable homeownership, but we just need to

[00:55:10] think through how that might work with this objective of the rental component. Yeah, I'm not sure. Tom, do you have a thought on this? Yeah, I might also add that, you know, in addition to, you know, sort of the challenges of something like that existing within a condominium regime, It's the volume of units as well that would need to be replaced that I think, you know, while in the face of it, purchasing, you know, one or two condos might be helpful.

[00:55:38] But if you're trying to replace 50, 75, 100 units. Yeah, thank you for thinking that through. And I would think it would be helpful as we look at off-site provision that we incorporate an idea like an additionality that we're not looking to, I think we would be looking to not just, you know, take an already existing affordable area and then have it on paper be now preserved, even though, you know, it was under no threat at going away, you know. So just, I would want to

[00:56:15] make sure that we're actually, when we're talking about preservation, that we're not going into a different community off-site and you know just basically continuing the existing situation and that one other uh point and i know this is all rental uh that we're focused on here um i we also have across the county many many condominiums and for sale units that are modestly priced uh in the market um you know a lot of those values have just now gotten back to where they

[00:56:47] were pre-financial crisis 15 years ago. And so I guess I don't know if we have plans for a similar policy, because I think it's going to require a different approach, you know, for preservation of for sale communities. But I'm just curious if that's been on the radar, if that's something we should be talking about later.

[00:57:11] I think it sounds like our list might be growing, but the issue of for sale is an important one to us. Right now, we're looking at how to make our for sale program through the Workforce Dwelling Unit program more effective, and if we wanted to look at for sale in terms of preservation, that's something that we could talk through and perhaps come back to you all on.

[00:57:45] Yeah, because I think there are different factors that are going to be in play there, particularly when we're talking about condominiums and, you know, basically maybe liabilities of common assets that maybe haven't been kept up. Sometimes that's driving the price down.

[00:58:02] But there are going to be other situations. A lot of these are going to be unique, but I do think from just a pure affordability and preservation standpoint, that's something at some point we need to look at because I think it's not I think we're going to see a good number probably thousands of units in the coming years that are going to be in one way or another threatened if you will by various forces so Tom. Mr. Chairman if I may a couple things on that if I could number one I think that one of the most important steps that we can take relative to addressing the challenges

[00:58:41] that exist in some of the more moderately priced ownership communities is providing a broader path for people to be able to buy in those communities. And I think we'll hear more about that in our next presentation, but that's one comment I'll make. The other comment with respect to direct intervention in owned housing, we do have our Home Repair for the Elderly Program, which is continues to be a going concern and continues to be well-loved and highly utilized in the

[00:59:19] community. What HCD does not have any longer is any kind of single-family rehab lending operation. We used to have that infrastructure over the last two decades. That infrastructure was repurposed, went away. So there's not any structure at HCD to be able to carry out something on the scale of what you're talking about. Okay. All right, Kim.

[00:59:48] Thank you. Thank you. Supervisor Lusk. Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to commend the staff also on this presentation and appreciate the specific details that you've identified in it. For me, personally, the one-for-one goal and replacement is so vital and important, so just want to raise that up again.

[01:00:12] But I think on the preserving the units off-site, I do, there's a number of things here that are certainly resonating with me under the factors for consideration, making sure that we are within a mile radius if we can. The employment centers, that one's really pushing hard towards me because I recognize that we've got to ensure that people still have the opportunity to be able to support themselves and to be able to find employment.

[01:00:41] The question I want to ask is, thinking about the kids who would be displaced and moved, do we have a focus also on the schools and thinking about really the supports? Because the families are really dependent on a number of the neighborhood factors and just thinking about how we ensure that we're protecting those kids and their families through both the focus on the schools and their other supports.

[01:01:09] So I just wanted to hear if that was also a consideration. Yes, we do have that consideration as part of it. I think we'll need to sort of think about is it where the equity is in the pyramid, if it's at the elementary school level all the way through high school, or how does it fall?

[01:01:29] But yes, that is included under public facilities. We would want to take that into consideration. Yeah, I think that's kind of important personally, and I do appreciate where you're going with the relocation guidelines as well, so I look forward to hearing the additional details at the upcoming meeting.

[01:01:48] Can I pivot, though, and I apologize. I know this isn't directly connected, but just thinking about this issue in my district. So we have the highest number of mobile home units in the county in my district, And we acknowledge that there are some issues here around preservation as well as providing replacements and also providing locations.

[01:02:15] So I'm assuming that as we go through the review of the manufactured ordinance and the recommendations that we receive from that panel, Are we going to be looking at something similar for manufactured housing where we'll kind of take a stab at thinking about how we address the issues, very similar issues that we see with the multifamily units?

[01:02:42] Will we be thinking about doing the same with those manufactured housing units as well? The short answer is yes. And mobile home and manufactured home communities also has a specific section within the relocation guidelines.

[01:03:01] Yes, it does. So we'll be looking at a preservation policy within the comprehensive plan, administrative guidelines, and as well specifically looking at how manufactured home relocation happens. Yeah, I hope that we can do some of the same things around the manufactured housing as we're doing here because I think this is a really good template.

[01:03:23] So I just wanted to raise that up as well. And, again, thank you for the work that you're doing and look forward to seeing the additional guidelines. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Supervisor Wilkinshaw. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, and, Bree, if you're watching or when you watch, thank you for all your work on this.

[01:03:42] I'll be very excited and eager to see the first use case, and I think we'll learn from that and maybe make adjustments. I actually had the same thought as Supervisor Lusk on page three where we talk about the proximity to county facilities and services, parks, et cetera, et cetera.

[01:04:01] Maybe it makes sense to add schools there, even though you could say it's included in county facilities. Just, you know, based on an experience with this in the Braddock District with some relocation issues, that's an issue that comes up.

[01:04:17] Obviously, understandably, something that families are concerned about. I also, when I saw the one mile, seems to me like very much an ideal. I find it hard to believe that there would be many property owners that would be able to make that work.

[01:04:40] I don't think we are generally, you know, at the Housing Authority, HCD. But so I'm also wondering about the language because it says offsite units must be within one mile radius.

[01:04:57] And then at the end of the sentence, it says to the extent practicable, a term of art, I guess. So was the one mile, was one mile something that we heard from property owners that they felt they could make work? Or where did the one mile come from?

[01:05:16] The one mile radius may be difficult to achieve in certain circumstances if there are actually no units that are available, comparable units that are available. So we did want to allow for some flexibility within that. But in general, we looked at the one-mile radius, thinking about what might be walkable, what might be reasonable in terms of if you do have support networks in place in your community, how could you access those, where would they be located?

[01:05:45] So, we were looking to try to at least have our priority to have those units be located in areas that are within a reasonable potential walking distance, you know, a driving distance, so that we weren't disrupting the communities.

[01:06:01] And based on the conversations with property owners, I mean, did any of them talk through how they could achieve the off-site provision of PAUs? Is it that they already own a property that they could accommodate people? Or to Supervisor Alcorn's point, there are relatively affordable condo units that they, the developer, could purchase and then rent at affordable rents?

[01:06:26] Or what are the scenarios under which it could happen? So that is part of the complexity of it. We did, I think, in terms of who we spoke with, We did receive some feedback about that and having mostly attorneys sort of think through how they could make that work.

[01:06:50] But you're right, it can be difficult. There are property owners who do own multiple properties within the same corridor, so potentially that could be an option. But I think realistically there also would be the option where you would purchase or rent and commit to those rents at another site that you did not own or that they were trying to purchase.

[01:07:19] But that, I'll just say that is, that would have to be within a partnership arrangement. And I think that's where we'll just have to work through, you know, and see how it works and make sure we're monitoring how that works to make sure it's a reasonable option, because highly likely it might be two property owners working together.

[01:07:38] Okay. And then final question, just along the lines of the chairman's question, the PAUs, is it that they are preserved in perpetuity? So they're preserved as affordable in perpetuity? Because that doesn't, I don't see that in the guidelines.

[01:07:59] So we're relying on the Workforce Dwelling Unit administrative guidelines for a lot of that administrative piece of it. So as far as the term length, right now within the Workforce Dwelling Unit program for rental, it is a 50-year commitment.

[01:08:16] Got it. So for 50 years, the rents can increase, but only in a line. They have to stay under the AMI levels, right? That's correct. So we adjust our multifamily rental WDUs every year, and we would similarly apply that increase to this.

[01:08:36] Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Supervisor Gross. Thank you. My question also was on this addition of preserving units off-site. The way I look at it, this is not a magic bullet to solve a whole lot of problems, But it's a possible option that would allow folks to achieve, allow us to achieve some of our goals.

[01:09:07] I'm, you know, I'm thinking, and maybe it's because we didn't have language in our guidelines to accommodate this several years ago.

[01:09:22] And it's been so long, I'm not sure I remember all the details. It's been at least 10 years, maybe longer. We had a proposal to build a 12-story market-rate apartment in downtown Annandale. The southern management was part of that deal, and they owned the Parliament's apartments across the street.

[01:09:47] And so in trying to accommodate the need to have affordable units, they proposed to have those affordable units across the street in the mid-rise apartment complex that they owned. We never could quite get it to work.

[01:10:03] And ultimately, the deal dissolved because there were some deaths in the partnership that was working on this, and the deal went away. But it would seem to me, if I'm recalling this correctly, that opportunity to preserve affordable sites across the street would be an example of this.

[01:10:30] We didn't have this availability at the time. So maybe a future development, this would work because you'd have the same, you'd have the developer owning multiple properties really nearby and it would certainly solve the one mile piece.

[01:10:50] So I just wanted to make sure because I would not want someone to look at this and say, oh good, this is the way we can do this because it really would be a very specific option for very specific situations.

[01:11:06] I would think. Yes, that is the case. And I would add, they would also have to demonstrate why they could not preserve the units on site. So it's not like the off-site would be the first, you know, option. We would want to know exactly and have them prove to us and demonstrate that they cannot do the preservation on the site first, and then they would move to the off-site. Well, let me then, let me ask a little bit more of a question, because this, what I'm thinking about in the development. This was a redevelopment of a commercial site. There was no housing on that

[01:11:43] particular site. In order to make the proposal work and accommodate affordable units, it was the off-site piece. So if you're redeveloping a site that wasn't residential to begin with, this is in our revitalization areas, especially where you've got, now we're looking at more mixed-use than we were just housing and residential and commercial, the mixture here, you'd have

[01:12:20] a requirement for affordable units, along with the market weight, most likely, and how you would accommodate some of those affordable units, maybe increase the affordable units by going across the street. I don't know if this would work for that.

[01:12:36] In that scenario, it doesn't sound like we're talking about the preservation of existing units on a particular site, though. I mean, if it's a commercial redevelopment and they were building residential, then we would look to how we would accommodate, most likely if it was 12 stories, the WDUs on the site.

[01:13:01] So that would be, we would, and I don't know that the Annandale Comprehensive Plan has provisions for off-site accommodation of WDUs. I'm not sure it does. Yeah, of WDUs. This is a newer idea. The Annandale plan was done in 2008, I think it was.

[01:13:18] Right. I mean, the only, this might be complicated, and I probably maybe should defer to Kelly on this, But if they were rezoning the entirety of the development where you have both the commercial property and they were bringing in the units from across the street, so they were looking at a larger development scheme, maybe then we could pull the preservation policy into the works if they wanted to, if on that commercial site they didn't need to go through a comprehensive plan amendment,

[01:13:56] they could take advantage of this. Thank you, Megan. Not to belabor this, but I do think that in our revitalization areas especially, we need to take another look because this may work, but it may not because you're looking at preserving units. Anyway, we'll have another discussion on that offline. Thank you. Supervisor Herity. Yes. First, thanks for holding the public hearing even though it's not required. I think it's important to do that. I am still considered

[01:14:34] with the impact of this proposal obviously on market-based housing because it increases housing cost period. A couple of specific questions. I don't see rent defined in here and as a CFO rent can be net, it can be gross, it can have add-ons. Do we have a definition for rent? Based on our, I mean looking at the workforce dwelling unit program, you know our rent is simply the cost shelter it doesn't it doesn't include utilities or any other add-ons so we would follow that and that's defined where through in the workforce dwelling

[01:15:14] unit policy and the program is how we would look at rent should we add that to this then to reference it at least we have a reference for the workforce dwelling unit program within the document in terms of the administration of it. And I agree with several of the comments on the one mile. I don't see how that is possible in a lot of occasions. Again, that further drives up the cost of housing because it gets

[01:15:46] more expensive closer in many of the situations. Right to returns not included in this, correct? Within the relocation guidelines, there is language about the ability, defining when the new development can accommodate the existing residents.

[01:16:09] So, yes, we would look at within the update to that how any new development can accommodate existing residents as long as they meet the qualifications. So for the existing residents, if they didn't actually verify their income, credit score, employment, all those other factors, and the new tenant, the new landlord requires that, is that going to?

[01:16:33] In order for a tenant to return, based on the current relocation guidelines, they would need to go through a qualification process. So they might not be able to return if they don't meet the qualification process, even though they didn't have one originally.

[01:16:49] Right. You know, there's a certain amount of time within the relocation guidelines currently for notification of the potential redevelopment or relocation, and that is intended to allow for tenants to be able to find new accommodations if they are not going to qualify in the future.

[01:17:12] Okay, so it's a right of return for most, but not all. Supervisor Stark. Thank you. AMI, is that a county-wide definition, or do you have some subset?

[01:17:30] How do you determine or assess that, and does that differ? Obviously, the cost of living in different parts of the county can be different. Please, if you can't address that now, if you could at least address that going forward. The AMI is defined by HUD annually for the Washington area, and that's what we use to calculate our rents.

[01:17:58] And, yeah, so it's as a definition. It's not specific to Fairfax County, not specific to areas of Fairfax County. It's just a broad measure. And so the cost of a unit in a particular part of the county can vary. And is that considered as part of the work that you're doing?

[01:18:19] Right now, we do use an average. We do use the area average. I'll say as we look at the WDU calculations every year, it's not a straight calculation of 70% of the area.

[01:18:40] There are additional adjustments that we make to ensure greater affordability in terms of our household size um so so there aren't i wouldn't say it's area specific um within within the county though so so area is defined as county so that the the area median income is based on the washington area okay so within so the cost of units in that particular area is not a function of that specific area tyson's versus something else no we don't we don't have those specific areas

[01:19:19] Thank you. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if I may, just really briefly, I would just note that, you know, certainly recognizing that there are different rental markets within the county, the key here is that what's affordable to someone at 60% of median income in, you know, one part of the county is the same thing as affordable to them in any other part of the county, recognizing that there may be more of those units in one part of the county.

[01:19:55] as opposed to another. So in terms of applicability, we really, you know, we do feel that, you know, using the 60% of AMI is, you know, remains the, you know, sort of the best measure for a countywide policy.

[01:20:19] Obviously I would share, I understand and support that, but I also share the bias that that creates in the process in terms of where you preserve what housing so and the objective is to clearly preserve affordable market affordable but it's also to make sure that that's the county-wide preservation and not just in specific areas that have maybe more affordable housing now absolutely and also dependent on the opportunities that present themselves sure thank you uh thank you mr chairman i'll be brief i know

[01:20:57] we don't have a lot of time left um my comment i guess is a little bit a question both for this and the next one on home ownership, which I'm very excited about. And I think we've talked a lot about policy, and that really is our role and your role. My question is more around the implementation and seeing that we are putting quite a bit of work on your office, and it's very important for your office to have that role.

[01:21:20] But I'm wondering, are we looking at partners like LEDC or Wesley or others to look at the implementation and perhaps support them in implementing this ones who've done it in other areas, especially in the region, and ensuring that, you know, the residents in our offices and your office are getting the support they need to make these successful.

[01:21:45] I think that, you know, you definitely hit the nail on the head in terms of these, you know, all of these programs are so wonderful, and that we are kind of using our existing resources to administer the new programs. We expect to leverage a lot of consultant support, and particularly when looking at preservation proposals, just ensuring that we have kind of that third-party market appraisal of the development scenarios and making sure that they are balancing out and that we are given market reasonable assumptions from the developers because we want to make sure to push them, but we also want to make sure that it is a feasible project that, you know, provides the returns that are necessary to make the project successful.

[01:22:23] And I think that's really important. I guess my question is more, and this might be further down the line ensuring that the engagement outreach and support for the residents for the community is there and I don't know that we have that internal capacity I just want to make sure that we're able to have that available when necessary and especially when we hopefully get pilots of this absolutely and I think it's important that you did mention homeownership and we do have those partnerships with a number of community-based organizations throughout the county through the homeownership program, we are looking at ways to leverage them even more and

[01:22:58] to find ways to expand those partnerships. And I think this is a great opportunity as well to make sure that we are connecting both through various languages and various outreach to communities that we might not have, you know, typically do outreach to, to make sure everyone understands kind of what is happening in some of these redevelopment scenarios leading up to it and also what their rights are under relocation plans and the whole process. I would also note that in cases where we're doing a hundred percent preservation uh and a large-scale renovation that by and large uh our partners in doing those those types of projects would be community-based mission-based

[01:23:37] organizations either for-profit or non-profit that are affordable housing developers okay no i appreciate that as you know trust is so important and some of them have already built that with the community so um yeah i guess my only feedback is i think this is a great step forward a lot of work has gone into it. I know we're tweaking it right now, but hopefully this is one of those living documents that we really learn from the reality and what we're able to come across. And when it comes to affordability, you know, definitely I'm thinking here schools was brought up, but also access to transportation is so key. And we know especially around metro centers,

[01:24:17] around transportation areas, and hopefully those continue to expand, that we do see increased housing prices and are able to take that into account through this work. And if I may, just to plug some of the other work that the preservation officer has done with us was that in December there was a RFQ that was released to develop the inaugural pool of partners of our affordable housing providers that we could have pre-qualified

[01:24:54] and we have we had we based on that we had we have 22 affordable housing providers that are pre-qualified or excuse me 21 that are pre-qualified to work with us when preservation opportunities come up so I just wanted to sort of plug that work that we were what that we've done because it's very important as you're saying for us to leverage and kind of quickly act on these preservation opportunities and having those partnerships already established is a great step forward to kind of getting, to taking advantage of the preservation opportunities as they come up.

[01:25:34] All right. Thank you. That was a great discussion. I think it's obvious this is very complex and, you know, you've gotten a lot of excellent comments and points made.

[01:25:54] I know we're looking at bringing this for advertisement on the 12th and then I think the 26th. I think we can still try to do that, but it's going to depend upon once you go back and consider what you've heard today, can you address the concerns that have been raised?

[01:26:18] And a lot of it's just going to be adding clarity to what you've got. Not that it wasn't clear, but it was just not as comprehensive as some of the questioning was but if we can still meet that objective that would be wonderful if we can't that would be understandable but if the board's okay with that that's how we'll proceed and if appropriate as you're going through the comments reaching out to board members with specific answers thank questions we'll raise the only question I have after hearing everything is when we're talking

[01:26:53] about additional density as an incentive is that a one for one like if they preserve one unit they get one unit of additional density or are we talking about 10% as a maximum additional density if they preserve a certain number of units that's a great question and I think the reality is is that it will not be it will not be one for one and I think we I think that it'll be project specific because it will depend on, you know, areas throughout the county will have different types of projects and different proposals.

[01:27:29] So we'll have to work closely with the community, with the Department of Planning and Development, with your offices to figure out what is that right number, both from the financial perspective to make the project work, but also sort of how does it fit in with other kind of project and planning objectives great well we didn't give you an easy task this time but we'll make up for it with another assignment down the road I mean we're not obviously we're not going to get to the home ownership but every the board

[01:28:06] has the has the information we would we're planning on bringing another draft back in November anyway but I would hope that that draft is you know ready for prime time is where we're at uh if the board has comments or questions about what you what's been presented please share them with staff uh before the end of the year would love to get a home ownership program in place or at least well on the way so uh we will address that that will be on the agenda in uh november at the housing committee are there any other issues to come

[01:28:45] before the committee this morning if not thank you all for your very good questions

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