Coraggio Consulting
Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Environmental Committee, Tuesday, February 27, 2024

Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2024
Place: Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 1h 20m (video)
Official meeting video (Fairfax County): https://video.fairfaxcounty.gov/player/clip/3244
Official Board of Supervisors page (Fairfax County): https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/boardofsupervisors/

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-11-01. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:04] yeah people are okay good let's get started everyone all right good morning again and welcome to the february 27th meeting of the board's environmental committee before we start i wanted to just just take a moment and thank supervisor stork for his inspired leadership of the committee over the last over the last four years at one in in our second presentation today i think you'll see

[00:00:42] the really astounding progress that we've made and it's in large part due to your efforts and your leadership. So thank you. And with that, we have a meeting summary of our December meeting.

[00:00:57] Board members have received it. So if there are no updates or changes to that meeting summary, we will jump right into our first agenda item, which is our annual report on the environment from EQAC. Larry, take it away. Thank you, Supervisor Walkinshaw. Well, it's a pleasure

[00:01:17] to be here today to talk with you about the annual report on the environment. I think we greatly benefit from having dialogue with the board and being able to get any kind of reactions to things. If I may, first of all, I'd like to begin by introducing to you the people that are here from EQAC. First of all, there's Ken Lamphere. He is vice chair of EQAC. He's with the Hunter Mill District. And I hear most every time I talk with him about meetings he's having with his supervisor. He meets very frequently to discuss environmental and many other issues next we have brian campbell brian campbell you

[00:01:55] you know well he's from your district uh renee greeby she she writes our parks and um ecological resources chapter and we have clyde wilbur uh clyde is also the chair of the wetlands board and we have eric gobelrude eric uh comes with a strong history on climate issues and i'm sure you probably know his work from the Faith Alliance as well. So one of the things I will notice is I

[00:02:30] feel very fortunate to work with these folks because they are all very knowledgeable about environmental issues. I feel that EQUAC folks are some of the most skilled in their area and and they bring a lot to the table. So with that I will go ahead and get into the slides that I have and hopefully we'll have time at the end to have some discussion. One of the things that we want to do today is just highlight some of our key recommendations um and in future years if you see a different way that we might approach this that would be more effective let me know and we will

[00:03:07] do what we can do to accommodate that we make recommendations to the board on things that we we expect may well come up to you and hopefully will be helpful to you as you undertake your work when we prepare the are we think about trying to provide a perspective on what is the state of the environment what does the environment look like for Fairfax County we try to highlight recommendations first of all we put together a lot of recommendations then we put together focused recommendations the focus recommendations

[00:03:47] might be three or four recommendations that are likely to require some work with staff in order to make progress on we have budget recommendations which are basically recommendations which the board needs to make a decision on what they can accommodate what they can and then we also have other recommendations for things that we think should be addressed but they don't rise to that same level and and we also go to my next slide the top recommendation we had

[00:04:25] from this year was to update the employee compensation policy for areas with critical staff shortages such as wastewater and solid waste to attract and retain employees we saw this as a recurring issue in a couple of departments and we just thought that it would be really unfortunate if the inability to attract and retain employees in key areas was such that it meant that we couldn't have enough people to adequately staff a critical

[00:05:00] area if you had a problem in a facility or in operations that caused some other issues the consequences could be could require a lot of corrective action or they they could be publicly undesirable and so so it just seems like it's better to stay in front of these issues and and and we thought this was important to highlight and in particular we noted that we saw some some some issues with

[00:05:35] respect to DPWES and some other areas as well and and from my conversations with director Harrington it seems like progress is being made and that's great so these I wanted to highlight the other priorities that we had that we're going to be focusing on with staff this year one is implementing specific processes that minimize ecological degradation from development pressure.

[00:06:10] This is a recurring recommendation we've had for a number of years, and it's a challenging one to deal with. As you have development, you often have loss of trees, you often have loss of habitat, and to the extent that it's possible, it's good to try to preserve as much as you can this process. And sometimes that may involve taking things down and having the area get new trees and new habitat and still preserving a good amount of the ecological function that

[00:06:49] the area once had. But this is an area which is going to require, I think, continued attention. Another one was to budget and implement an accountable zero waste plan for the public and private sector. This will be a significant lift for the county. Director Harrington has told us that he plans on having something perhaps in July where we can hear about it. We really look forward to it. We know that's a very challenging issue. Adopting a climate plan for public

[00:07:27] consumption that allows for CCAP, Brazilian Fairfax, and other climate-related efforts such is the Virginia Clean Economy Act to be implemented and show how we're moving towards achieving these goals.

[00:07:46] And Supervisor Walkinshaw, you and I discussed this particular plan and how the desire that we have is not to create new documents, new paperwork, but rather to just make sure that the actions that the county has undertaken are clear and transparent and people can see value in the work that is being undertaken.

[00:08:05] you know that's that's one of the things that sometimes is kind of hard is is county staff works really hard to do great work and and when they do great work sometimes people don't know it you may know about it but the public at large may not appreciate it unless they tune into all the board meetings and so so trying to present things in a way such that we can actually see the budget that that we're investing in the areas that are getting going to get the benefits that we are seeking that would be really a good thing to do um and we talk with with staff all the time

[00:08:39] about that and another challenging one is plan and implement an ev charging charging network so that residents of buildings with ev charging and travelers will have options for charging their evs uh this seems to be an issue that is uh challenging the nation with respect to the conversion to evs people have a fear that they won't have options for charging their vehicles And one of the things that I feel is that Fairfax County is at least recognizing this and they are undertaking steps in order to develop a network of EV charging and they're looking at those areas where there's the greatest concern.

[00:09:18] So it seems like we're on the right path. Then there's budget priorities. Here we highlighted two things. One is setting the fee rate for wastewater treatment to meet the documented needs.

[00:09:39] Of the county and one of the things that I was glad to see is it looks like in the in the proposed budget from the county executive It looks like like that need need is being met And that's very positive Taking a look at that same document. It looks like the the stormwater Quarter penny was was not included this time and so The next document that I think we will prepare is is our budget recommendations So my belief is that we will be including that item as one of our recommendations for the board to consider.

[00:10:17] I wanted to quickly give you a sense of the different topics that we're talking about discussing this year. We're thinking about further discussions on CCAP, resilient Fairfax, data centers, budget recommendations, updates to the environmental comprehensive plan.

[00:10:43] we're working with the planning commission in order to try to contribute to the work that's being done and the updates to the comprehensive plan. Looking at smart growth, one of the things that we appreciate is the comprehensive plan includes a smart growth perspective and we think that's a good idea and we think it's important to retain that in general. Lake Akatink, we see continued discussions on Lake Akatink and stream restoration work. Stream restoration work I think

[00:11:19] is important for a lot of different reasons i i think i said on some of the meetings for lake akatink and and the discussions on lake akatink really uh heighten my sensitivity towards the importance of stream restoration work no matter what we do with something like lake akatink if we don't address street you know stream restoration and try to stabilize the streams and reduce the um erosion that we would otherwise see we're going to be back to square one uh it's an issue throughout the county it's important for water quality support the environment and it seems like Fairfax County is a leader in this area it's

[00:11:57] good work addressing flood risks supervisor Stork has been quite sensitive to this issue for the Mount Vernon district I certainly think it's important I think it's important for other other areas as well and it's with climate change it's it's it's never increasing the water security that's another area that has come to light one of the things that we learned is that the Washington DC area only has about five days worth of water and so which is

[00:12:35] not a lot at all Fairfax County is a bit better off but in terms of large metropolitan areas having sufficient water to make sure that your your your scent is is is important and and and I think this is something that would be could have more focus schools the environment parks there's there's parks are are are important to the residents of Fairfax County they're expensive and with tight budgets it's challenging to meet all the needs and another issue

[00:13:14] that's that's been raised by Clyde Wilbur is trash and the lack of tree plantings the beat out right away so those are some of the issues that I expect we will be looking at and with that I think one of the questions that we're constantly asking is what more can we do to make the annual report on the environment a a more effective document the supervisor walk and show you've already provided one comment that is we would benefit from an executive summary and I then I then I then I then I then shared with you the story about how when

[00:13:54] I first joined EQAC that the annual report was closer to 1,000 pages, and I actually got resistance on the question of having an executive summary, because then people won't read the whole chapter, the whole bucket. So, those are the points I wanted to raise, and I wanted to welcome any comments or discussion you might offer.

[00:14:16] Yeah. Thank you, Larry. And, yeah, the idea that folks are going to read 1,000 pages, that's definitely making perfectly any really good there um but but thank you for all the equac members for for the incredible work i i have read the entire 2023 um report and and it's really great work and i think the important thing is as board members know is the collaboration between equac and our staff is ongoing throughout the year so it's not that a report is produced sent over and that's the end of the conversation so it's an ongoing conversation and dialogue and your input makes everything that

[00:14:51] we do better. And I think there's some really valuable recommendations in here. And on most of them, we have efforts underway. Probably all of them, we have some efforts underway that are going to be informed and improved by your continued engagement. And I'll just note, you know, in terms of the 2024 priorities that you laid out there, our potential priorities, it's a big list.

[00:15:17] Certainly for me, one that should be at the top is working with the planning commission on the environmental policy plan. I think that is a huge opportunity for us as a county to take the next step, and I'll talk a little bit about the green building policy in our next presentation, but you all can add so much to that conversation, and that is an opportunity that doesn't come around every year to participate in that.

[00:15:43] So I hope, I know you'll take advantage of that. So with that, let me turn it over to my colleagues. Start with Chairman McKay. Yeah, I pick up on your last comment because I do think that's critical. This is something that rarely happens. It probably should happen more often. But what the Planning Commission is doing and our Planning Commission chairman is here, the amount of work that will need to be done in that environmental section is going to be really, really important to make that collaboration happen.

[00:16:12] Just, you know, I want to thank EQUAG for another great report. I do have one note of, one thing to give some more thought to, and then two things that maybe you can help us with. One, this issue of public consumption has been something, public consumption of our climate action plan has been something I've been talking about here for years.

[00:16:34] And I know that we're doing a much better job with trying to make things simpler for the public to understand. And I would just say that, you know, when I look at the OEEC website Climate Action Dashboard, it is by far and away, from my mind, the best place for a resident to go and kind of see in very clear, easy ways what we're doing with regard to our climate action initiatives in the county.

[00:17:01] And I would just ask EQAC to take a careful look at that and see how we might augment that to help with the public consumption piece of this that you've raised here because we've come a long way in this area but i'm in agreement with equac that you know there's still a ways to travel um on the ev piece um you know my experience has been we have we need more ev charging stations for the public but the biggest problem is we have roughly at any given day well over 50 percent of them out broken due to maintenance issues. And what I have repeatedly heard is that the federal

[00:17:40] initiatives to install EV charging stations are very aggressive on the put them in place, then there's absolutely nothing about maintenance. And so the EV charging people are racing to get as much federal money as they can to install these and then don't have anybody to go back can repair them. And to me, that's a huge threat to EV utilization, because you see them on a map, you expect them to be working, they're not. And so one of the things I think EQAC should look at is what are the federal incentives for that? Are there any measures for maintenance? And what might we might consider for our legislative package to deal with that? Because this is a nationwide

[00:18:19] chronic problem with the stations that are breaking down. The one piece I want to offer a little bit of caution on is the first bullet implements specific processes that minimize ecological degradation from development pressure. No argument there. We need to do that. I would just ask us to give some thought to how that intersects with the oldest parts of the county that are in desperate need of revitalization. I think of areas like the Route 1 corridor. We have this embark plan and one of the biggest drivers of that is the environmental features on the highway

[00:18:53] because almost all the development on the highway happened pre any measures to deal with water quantity, water quality, runoff, best management practices, tree cover. These are seas of asphalt in parts of the county that also have other income challenges and as a result have lower health outcomes. And so we need new development desperately in those areas to bring those communities up to today's environmental standards um and so i would just ask you when we look at that first bullet point that we also weigh very carefully what we need to do in older parts of

[00:19:31] the community to bring in new development to improve the environment you know you can't get smart growth is one of the one of the bullets in here uh unless you give some thought to how we're utilizing some of the the older parts of the county that are in desperate lean of environmental improvement. We've seen some of that through redevelopment and some of that's very clear on aerial shots. And so I just say when we have that conversation, let's also give some thought to the totality of the benefits of today's requirements on new development that didn't exist when large parts of the county were already developed. And I know you all are aware of that. It's just

[00:20:09] something I think is relevant to make a part of that conversation. Great. Thank you. And we will go until 11 50 so 15 or 20 more minutes on this presentation before we move on to the next one and i think all of the equac members should feel free to to jump in larry i'll let you guide them but feel free to to jump in in response to anything that you hear uh supervisor beerman thank you uh mr chairman uh i just wanted to add or perhaps as a proposed topic but also a part of

[00:20:47] the minimizing ecological degradation from development pressure, something that's very important in my district in particular, though I do think it is an issue countywide, which is tree preservation and infill development. My residents, I hear all the time about that house going in next door, the mature trees that came down that could have been protected, or how could we protect more of them. Sometimes I sound like the Lorax talking about it. I have a three-and-a-half-year-old, so

[00:21:20] of course that's how I see it. But, you know, I think that's something that's potentially, and actually, you know, the next presentation does talk about tree canopy, but that's potentially something to add to your list of things to consider, and I think also actually fits in with what you're already talking about when it comes to minimizing ecological degradation from development pressure. Thank you all for this presentation and for the hard work you're doing

[00:21:52] as volunteers. Go ahead. Thank you. In connection with what Chairman McKay said, and tree cover is one of the biggest indicators of heat islands. We have, of course, the NASA maps of the county of heat islands. They correspond to transportation, shopping centers, and things like that, and low-income areas. Our GIS is perfectly good and points that out beautifully. So tree canopy is a

[00:22:26] very critical issue for more than just that you like trees. Thank you. Okay, Supervisor Jimenez. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and so great to hear from EQAC. Thank you all for being here and thank you for your service. I know that our equine appointee, Mr. Healy, is fantastic and helps out in so many ways. Real quick, just wanted to recognize our planning commissioner chair and good friend, former colleague, Mr. Phil and Jeffrey Eichner. Thank you for being here.

[00:22:59] And one of the things that I would recommend is that you all spend time, more time with the planning commission. I think that the more that they can learn from you, the more informed they're going to be as a former planning commissioner, one of the things that I left thinking was we need to hear from you more. We need to have more environmental committees. We need to make sure that we're hearing from different groups and organizations throughout the county because that's only going to help the perspective of the planning commission as they make important decisions before it comes before the board. One quick, I guess, comment question is in regards to the adjustment fee proposal on wastewater treatment and increasing funding

[00:23:38] for stormwater programs, I would hope that there would be something in place to ensure that the cost increases are equitable and do not disproportionately affect low-income residents. So as we look at that, we need to keep that in mind. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So if I could just note, this year we have tried to undertake a lot more focus on trying to coordinate with the Planning Commission. I speak with Mary Cortina at least once or twice a month. It was our intention actually to have her speak at our next DQAC meeting, but unfortunately a planning

[00:24:15] commission meeting is set for that night too. So we have a scheduling issue to figure out, but I think our conversations with the planning commission have never been richer, and I really am hoping to have a much richer dialogue and contribute to the environmental part of the I appreciate that. We all know how hard Commissioner Cortina works. So I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

[00:24:45] Okay, we'll just keep going down. Supervisor Lusk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think my point is I appreciate the presentation as well, and thank you for all of the details. And really, on the budget priorities, acknowledging the need for the compensation for staff and looking at where we have a lot of vacancies.

[00:25:04] something that's obviously important for us to do and something that we care about dealing I also wanted to kind of dovetail on the point about the tree cover and canopy as it relates to heat island because I think in my district where we have a fair number of mobile home parks manufactured housing communities we see that as a problem for many of them because you really unfortunately don't have a lot of trees in those areas and certainly making sure that we're doing things to provide more and to address that is, I think, pivotal and necessary.

[00:25:41] So I appreciate the point. And then on the issue around water needs and availability, I think that one is also one of resiliency for our military bases. So thinking about the work that we do for Belvoir and other military installations that are in the county, we should be thinking about how we can kind of work jointly across the installations in addressing these needs collectively.

[00:26:10] So I just wanted to add that and then say really appreciate the, you know, thoughtfulness and the presentation and discussion here today. Thank you. Okay. Supervisor Patrick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, and thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[00:26:28] Mr. Chair, thank you for the work you do. Again, I know it's been a challenge. I do have, I hope, a new EQAC appointee coming your way. And that really leads me to answer your question of what more can you do to help us? And I think that helped me realize the next presentation is showing all the different plans and the work that we are doing and trying to do.

[00:26:50] And those of us who sit at this table maybe understand up to 80% of it. And I think the engagement piece in the community is the one where I'm really seeing that we, And I think with your help could do a better job of not just getting the word out there, but bringing people to the table, right?

[00:27:09] So working with NCS, Opportunity Neighborhoods, and the Community Engagement Framework. Who doesn't know that we are here, that you're here, and that we want to hear, especially targeting our community, like you said, that hasn't been targeted, our opportunity areas.

[00:27:27] How do we get not just us sharing information with them, but them telling us what they want to see in their community, how we can impact what they're doing in their own neighborhoods, whether through the schools, NCS, or others.

[00:27:42] So to me, there's so much knowledge on the EQUAC, and that's still the big, big gap of knowing what the EQUAC is and getting more engagement from our communities on all of the work that we are doing collectively. Larry?

[00:27:59] I would just like to note that I think that's a really critical thing. I know Supervisor Stark knows that I try to reach out to different parties in the Mount Vernon District, and I know that others on EQAC do the same in theirs.

[00:28:16] I look at the amount of things that, like, Brian takes on in your district, and it's huge. But it seems like, you know, it's serving on EQAC. I think it's important that we not just sit in our meetings, but we also have a dialogue with our communities and try to share information.

[00:28:38] And one of the things I think that's helped is sharing information on what's going on. But I think that engagement that you're talking about is really critical because engagement goes two ways. And if we could do anything to improve engagement, be it with the Planning Commission, the Board of Supervisors, or anyone else, I think that is really a worthwhile thing to do.

[00:29:02] And one of the things I would seek is figuring out how to best engage with you, given all of the other many priorities that you have. Okay, Supervisor Stork. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Larry, thank you for your leadership of EQUAC, and I know you're long service on EQUAC.

[00:29:23] And obviously, given the experiences you have in Alverna District, which pretty much covers the range of kind of environmental issues that the county typically faces, I think it gives you a broad perspective. But I know that you have an amazing number of other leaders there. I see and know the different roles that they have and the advocacy that they've had to get us where we are today, at least in my mind as a leader in the country environmentally.

[00:29:47] Not that we don't have opportunities to do much better, but clearly we are, we're clearly in the top tier of folks who are looking seriously and how do we address these issues. My number one question, concern, and I've been sharing this, and I know John Murrow is familiar with this issue because it was something that I keep bringing up because I don't know how best to do it.

[00:30:11] I have some ideas, and I know ultimately it's a community engagement. But our CCAP, our Community Energy and Climate Action Plan, is our communities, the counties, if you will, plan to get us, you know, more environmentally sustainable, definitely energy sustainable.

[00:30:27] And I recognize, and I know you all must as well, that we cannot achieve that without deep, deep engagement with the community and lots of different categories, whether it's commercial, you know, office space or malls or HOAs or, I mean, again, businesses, you name it the type.

[00:30:51] There's all these different, and I know particularly, so Eric over there, I look at what they've done in looking with churches and spiritual communities and how they can be a better, if you will, custodian of the responsibilities to reduce their energy and climate, your carbon emissions.

[00:31:08] I think that that is the number one place where Equac could really do more to kind of build those lines of connections, you know, build those leadership, build those champions within particular communities that are ultimately essential to us overall getting to our climate action goal for the county, which is by being net zero by 2050.

[00:31:35] I don't know any other way to get there. We're going to have to have champions in all different categories. We're going to have to have people that are willing to take leadership within their particular area of interest and passion. So whatever I can do to support that, I know that that's, again, it is that difficult of an assignment.

[00:31:56] We have our green business partners, and we have other things that we're trying to do. But it's like that kind of creaky car that's just trying to get started, and we're slowly moving, but we need to be zooming more quickly forward. And I know that we need to find a way to energize these different sectors, the community, to take on and to move forward the objectives that CCAP identified that they need to meet if we're truly going to be successful by 2050 or hopefully even before.

[00:32:26] So that's really my broad statement question and would look for ways that you all could align yourself, organize yourself to try to support and facilitate that challenge and achievement. Okay. Supervisor Alcorn.

[00:32:42] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Great work. I like the direction you're going in general. The one thing I would just suggest or ask as you go through and develop the annual report, And I know you do this some anyway, but one of the roles that we play on the Board of Supervisors is we look across county programs, across agencies, across, if you will, stovepipes.

[00:33:11] We don't stovepipe as much here as a lot of places, but we're big and it just happens from time to time. So wherever you can see, as you're looking into these things, wherever you can see efficiencies that could be gained by maybe doing things a little differently, maybe more coordination across different programs or different agencies, departments, point it out.

[00:33:35] You know, don't be afraid to look at that because that's one of the things that I know is always on our minds is how we can accomplish some of those things efficiently, and that would be helpful as well. Thank you. Supervisor Herdy.

[00:33:53] Say thank you, and thank you, Clyde, for both your service on EQUAC and the Wetlands Board, and hopefully we're moving forward on that joint checklist for the tidal waterlands. Hopefully we'll see that moving forward. Okay. Thank you, everyone.

[00:34:11] Larry, any final words? No. I thank you very much for this opportunity to speak with you. I've enjoyed our touching base with you, and I also appreciate all the comments by the board members. I think we'd like to pursue all the issues that were raised, particularly engagement, looking at efficiency, trees, and everything else as well.

[00:34:36] Thank you. Great. Thank you all. Mr. Chairman, I apologize for interrupting, but since the Planning Commission was referenced a few times, if you wouldn't mind, I just want to, since you have a few minutes before the next topic, but first of all, the policy planning process is number one priority.

[00:34:55] It's certainly for us, and I would recommend it be a very high priority for you, as you've The environmental component of it is probably the most complex element and will be given considerable attention. The relationship that we have with EQAC, as well as other environmentally oriented commissions, as well as the community at large, will be embraced during that process.

[00:35:26] Commissioner Cortina is the chair of our environmental committee. She's also the liaison with staff on the environmental chapter. So what we have, the way we've organized this is to have a commissioner have a liaison role with staff for particular elements of the policy plan.

[00:35:47] So Commissioner Cortina will be the liaison with EQUAC and others. And so we recognize the significance of this, and we are looking forward to the opportunity to both work with the EQUAC, but also the board.

[00:36:04] Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all. And as I was going to say, if you can stick around for the next presentation, we'll be covering a lot of the topics that you all mentioned in your report. But thank you for all your work. Okay. Let's try to change over quickly.

[00:36:38] Okay.

[00:36:57] Next, we'll get an update on our climate action progress. Mr. Morrill. Okay. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the Board of Supervisors. I'm John Morrill with the Office of Environmental and Energy Coordination. At the last meeting of this committee in December, I provided a quick abbreviated summary of the county's progress on climate action. Today, I'll provide a more complete picture of that progress, including a few of the programs that are showing success and showing momentum on climate action. We hope this will be useful

[00:37:36] to the new supervisors on the board as well as a refresher for an update for existing ones. A comprehensive report is part of today's packet and this report provides extensive detail on all the work mentioned here. There is a 35 page executive summary which endeavors to boil it down but we have heard the you know that we know that there's great interest in the community about about all

[00:38:12] that we're doing and so we have we have documented that here and today's presentation is is still a snapshot the county's provided generous funding in recent years to support this effort and and today I'll touch upon some recent and efforts to supplement that funding with external support. From those of us working on these issues, we thank you. And half of our team is here to answer questions if we go a place that

[00:38:48] my depth is exceeded. As you may recall, the county's work on reducing the causes of climate change and building our resistance to the effects of climate change involves a whole-of-government approach. Over 150 staff from over two dozen agencies are involved in these efforts. The role of our office is largely to scan the organization and overcome any stove piping that may be

[00:39:27] occurring. Naturally, this is a non-trivial effort, but we've got a handle on this, and this is how we've organized it. In 2021, the Board of Supervisors adopted two plans that address the causes of climate change and focus on reducing the greenhouse gas emissions that drive climate change. The Community-Wide Energy and Climate Action Plan, or CCAP as we've come to know it, aims to achieve a carbon neutral community by 2050. The plan looks at energy use throughout

[00:40:03] the community with goals for improved efficiency, use of renewables, and the shift to electric vehicles and other improvements to reduce transportation emissions. The operational energy strategy is a companion document focusing on county operations with also goals of carbon neutrality. Resilient Fairfax, adopted by the board in 2022, is our plan addressing the impact of climate change, aiming to improve our ability to reduce the impact of and or recover from

[00:40:40] climate-driven events, such as extreme heat, flooding, or electric power outages. There are certain themes that appear in all three plans, such as development codes or natural resources. Additionally, the staff across county agencies responsible for implementing the three plans are very similar. Therefore, for greatest efficiency, OEEC, working with the other agencies, combine the three plans into a consolidated matrix. We looked at all the strategies and

[00:41:18] duplicates, and we organized the work into six groups on the right-hand side for implementation. Group one is funding, coordination, legislative. Group two is development codes, plans, and policies. Group three, community aid, education, engagement, incentives. Group four, natural Resources, Group 5 County Facilities and Operations, and Group 6 is Data and Research. Some staff participate in all the groups. We call these groups the Interagency Climate Teams, and they

[00:41:54] convene frequently to share and coordinate work advancing the various strategies to achieve our goals. What goals, you may ask. Here are a handful of metrics we track for outcomes in the CCAP or or the community plan. And the focus is really the headline goal at the top, seeking carbon neutrality and at least an 87% reduction in carbon emissions from a 2005 baseline by 2050.

[00:42:26] The inverted triangle on each bar shows where we should be toward the goal, assuming progress proceeds in a straight line over time. At present, the county's greenhouse gas emissions are down about 30% from 2005, just slightly behind the pace needed, but it's a significant improvement nonetheless. This is an audacious endeavor, and there is steady progress being made throughout the community. This decline in emissions is mostly due to the cleaning of the electric grid,

[00:43:04] as the electric grids become cleaner with the retirement of many coal power plants and the emergence of renewable power on the grid. However, we also see gains in buildings and transportation. Energy use flat or declining in the past 10 years. Relevant to the discussion just occurred a little further down in green, we see figures for tree canopy. Those are nearly on track. And I'll note that, as has been mentioned earlier, tree canopy is a metric useful for both

[00:43:39] emissions reduction, because trees absorb carbon and reduce heat, reducing air conditioning need, but also for resilience, since shading is very important to reduce the urban heat island and the health effects on our community in the summer. So the overall takeaway from this slide's graphics, to me, is one of optimism. This shows encouraging signs of progress toward vital goals in the community, and we have a number of initiatives underway to build on that progress.

[00:44:17] One more process slide. There are over 150 recommendations across the three plans. These were streamlined into 77 strategies, and those were further consolidated into 22 categories across the six group teams. This chart identifies each strategy by its relevance to resilient Fairfax, CCAP, or the operational energy strategy. You'll see a few are unique to one plan,

[00:44:52] while others are relevant to two or three plans. The progress bars on the right are a sum of what has been completed within each strategy roll-up. Now, I'd like to emphasize that the previous chart showed outcomes. This chart shows level of activity. This is the activity that is going on in the county on the recommendations and strategies that were outlined in these plans.

[00:45:26] So we are tracking the activity in all of these areas with great detail, and a lot of that detail is in this staff report. I'll now just provide a few highlights from some of these groups.

[00:45:41] Group one, coordination funding and legislation is the broadest team, includes all agencies working on climate action. We've aligned elements from the climate plans with the strategic plan, hazard mitigation plan and public health plans.

[00:46:01] We're also working closely with Department of Planning on the environmental elements of the comprehensive plan. I mentioned funding at the outset of the talk. Here I'll mention in the middle of the slide that OEEC and other agencies continue to pursue federal funding to support these initiatives. While a couple of our applications for funds made available by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act and Inflation Reduction Act were not successful

[00:46:35] in 2023, we are encouraged that those are annual funding programs and we're likely to apply again this year with lessons learned from helpful agency debriefing sessions. We had conversations with the funding agencies and they identified, they shared some insights that will be helpful in the next applications. I'll also note that the Climate Pollution Reduction Grant opportunity is a multi-billion dollar funding pool for states and metropolitan regions, which we are pursuing

[00:47:10] through the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments. COG has agreed to lead a regional application with a strong Northern Virginia emphasis in cooperation with the Northern Virginia Regional Commission. We're also closely following state activity, including the Virginia DEQ plan for an application to the same program. And with apologies for not listing it on the slide, I'd like to inform you that we will pursue federal payments that are now allowed for non-taxed

[00:47:45] entities for our own investments in renewable energy, electric vehicles, and EV charging infrastructure at our own facilities. As you may know, for many years, the federal government has offered tax incentives to individuals and businesses for solar energy systems and electric vehicles. The Inflation Reduction Act now allows non-taxed entities like local governments, schools, and nonprofit organizations to also claim 30% of the eligible costs in the form of a direct payment from the IRS. Now, it's taken the IRS quite a while to develop the guidelines

[00:48:24] for this process. Staff from OEEC, finance, and other agencies are reviewing these guidelines to plan for future requests for payments. I will deliver a NIP to the board prior to our next committee meeting outlining this opportunity in more detail and our process for that.

[00:48:47] For residents, the county webpages for climate action have been broadly expanded with greater ease of use to provide better accessibility to our information resources. We have material in multiple languages and details about our program campaigns, as well as a monthly newsletter with growing subscription list. Much of our emphasis in 2024 will remain continuing to execute on our

[00:49:18] existing programs, but one additional thing to, again, spur community engagement is we continue to pursue a low-cost platform for residential engagement that can include an element of competition. And that's getting closer to rollout where we're still wanting to make that as multilingual as possible. Complementing the work on energy and emissions is the county's work on

[00:49:55] resilience. Extreme heat is a health hazard that is too often overlooked and underappreciated. The county has made great progress on a range of services and programs related to extreme heat. The fact is many households lack air conditioning.

[00:50:14] The heat emergency work group did a fantastic job of upgrading the county's cooling center services, providing transportation and accessibility and distributing supplies on extreme heat days, especially for unsheltered residents. There are now 47 official upgraded cooling centers, which are largely located either within or near urban heat islands.

[00:50:37] These are at human services centers, community centers, and libraries. In addition to cooling centers, the Department of Family Services continues to provide financial and equipment assistance to those without air conditioning through their cooling assistance program.

[00:50:56] Over 1,400 service requests were approved in 2023. So this group three is continuing to coordinate, speak with each other to ensure that those who need the services know about them and that similar services are coordinated with each other.

[00:51:21] In 2024, the group will work on developing heat-related guidance for outdoor workers and outdoor sports and guidance for heat-related design, such as cool roofs and cool pavements. Our programs for businesses and associations include Charge Up Fairfax, which is our initiative helping community associations install EV charging, the Green Business Partners Program, which now counts over 30 members and allies, and the Energy Conservation Assistance Program,

[00:51:56] offering incentives for clean energy upgrades at houses of worship, community organizations, and other nonprofits. I'll offer two examples of how the Charge Up Fairfax program has helped communities. At one pilot community selected last spring, the Homeowners Association is moving forward and they've hired a contractor to do the work. Their installation will follow a bit of site work to add two new parking spaces to their lot for EV charging. All of this was in steady consultation with charge-up staff and the county's feasibility study helped confirm the suitability

[00:52:34] of their plans, which the community said provided, quote, very helpful information for the project, At another pilot community chosen just last December, which happens to be in an equity-designated neighborhood, during the county site visit, the team found that their preferred location for an EV charging spot did not meet the size requirements for parking space, which is important for safe movement of vehicles.

[00:53:03] However, the county team in the feasibility study did examine two other spots in a surface lot on the premises. The county's contracted firm has been in touch with Dominion Energy to provide the community with the needed information about powering their project.

[00:53:23] That HOA's thanks staff saying, quote, you've taken away the daunting part of the process, end quote. We remain in constant contact with all of the pilot participants and look forward to celebrating installations soon. We'll also launch another application process in May to expand participation in the program.

[00:53:45] Last on this slide, I'd like to acknowledge our growing collaboration with the Faith Alliance for Climate Solutions. They have become an important partner in stimulating activity in the community, both with their own programming, and they've been very, very helpful in increasing the reach of this Energy Conservation Assistance Program, where a number of congregations have applied for funding for substantial improvements in their properties.

[00:54:20] Switching gears to government operations, energy retrofits continue through our energy services contract with award-winning projects at two Parks Authority rec centers. We now have five county buildings with rooftop solar and over 20 additional solar projects in the queue.

[00:54:40] OEEC has worked constructively with capital facilities, DPWES, solid waste, the Department of Housing, Facilities Management, and the Parks Authority on these jobs. Since FY18, we estimate that the avoided cost from energy use reduction in county facilities has reached about $2.5 million per year across the enterprise.

[00:55:12] I use the term avoided cost because we've reduced energy use, the price of energy has gone up, and so it's not savings we have in the bank, but we would have spent about $2.5 million a year had we not reduced consumption. The solar installation on the Woodlawn Fire Station provided the final points for capital facilities to gain LEED Platinum certification for that building, which is the first in the Fairfax County portfolio. And the county continues to increase

[00:55:48] the fleet of electric vehicles, and we're steadily increasing EV charging capacity across county buildings. For the government center, engineering design is well underway for 24 level two EV charging spaces for employees and visitors in one of the forward parking lots, with about half to be installed this year and the other half to be installed as needed, but we're laying the infrastructure there. This is in addition to 40 new spaces for fleet vehicles in one of the rear

[00:56:26] parking lots, again, with half to be equipped this year and the remainder as needed. We have a scope of work to engage a consultant to guide EV charging infrastructure deployment community-wide.

[00:56:48] And they'll look at both like a transition plan for the county fleet and the county charging the county fleet vehicles, as well as identifying the gaps in the community where future county activity could be considered to fill those gaps with EV charging. That's a scope of work, and we're aiming to get that work done this year. And so to close, I'd like to emphasize

[00:57:21] a growing refrain we sometimes use in the office. Emissions reduction is a global effort requiring change and innovation throughout the economy. Enhancing resilience can be a very local activity, where protecting health and property are things the county has a little more control over.

[00:57:44] Now, there's no question that county programming to facilitate the clean energy transition in Fairfax yields benefits to individual residents, businesses, and the broader public health through reduced pollution. But there are also many things that affect carbon emissions that are beyond our control or influence.

[00:58:07] And so we aim to quantify those uncontrollables to better focus our work in 2024. We want to maximize our impact through strong execution with limited resources. In a similar vein, we have good policies and public services to provide and enhance resiliency in the community, and we'll continue to leverage them for public benefit.

[00:58:35] So overall, we'll continue to grow our community-facing programs at broader scale, building upon our success thus far, and really enhance the visibility of our effort and successes. We're also keen to access external funding to further leverage our work to date and scale up, if we can, using federal funding, which can be a powerful force multiplier.

[00:59:02] So with that, I'd be happy to address any questions you have. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Morrill. Can you just go back to slide four, I think it is, the outcomes? And I just want to highlight this, you know, to the chairman's point about communicating our progress to the community.

[00:59:23] I think this slide is key. This is on the dashboard. We also have a similar slide for the operational energy strategy and for Resilient Fairfax. I think this will be eye-opening to folks in the community to see the way that we're tracking the metrics and the progress we're making and the fact that in some areas we're ahead of where we need to be.

[00:59:44] Others were behind, largely due to forces outside of our control. But in some areas we're ahead. And we've come a long way in the last year to get to this point where we're able to articulate it and display it with this much clarity.

[01:00:02] And I think if you heard a lot of the things that came out of the EQAC report, They're incorporated into these outcomes and the work that's being done. I also think for us, when we're in the community talking about these efforts, it is so critical that we tell people that we have reduced greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent since 2005, despite the county having grown by 12 percent, because that surprises people, even people who are deeply engaged in this work.

[01:00:37] I think you hear and read a lot of doom and gloom, understandably, in the media about climate issues and the slow progress or lack of progress, but it's important to tell people that we are making progress in Fairfax County, and that's how we get buy-in across the community for what we need them to do to help us accelerate that progress.

[01:01:02] I also want to just commend the staff for the work to consolidate three plans, each of which are hundreds of pages, three different plans into 77 strategies. 77 strategies is a lot of strategies, but when you think about what went into all of the work that went into the development of those three plans, to be able to consolidate it down to 77 strategies where we know if we execute on these 77 strategies we can meet our goals. I think that's really powerful and has helped us to continue to focus our work. You know one area that I'll just I'll just raise for the board to keep in the back of

[01:01:41] your mind Mr. Morrill mentioned some of the grant opportunities that are out there. And you know on the federal level Mr. Jimenez knows it better than anyone there are huge opportunities big dollars, a lot of money on the table. And one of the things that's different is unlike most of our grant work in the county where we are competing for established programs, right? If you think about the transportation grant programs that we're competing for year after year after year, for the most part, those are established programs with established processes. And we know very well

[01:02:16] how to do it. These are new for the most part, and they're highly complex. And it takes a lot of staff time and resources to complete those applications and go through those processes. And I've asked Mr. Morrill to let us know if there is a situation where additional resources or a little bit of outside support could better position us to reap a huge reward in terms of being successful in one of these grant opportunities that are coming up.

[01:02:44] So with that, I'll turn it over to Chairman McKay, and we'll start on this side this time. Thank you very much, and excellent presentation, and we've come so far in trying to help people understand some really complex things in a simple way.

[01:03:01] I guess one of the questions I have on this same slide, which I think is the most important slide in here in terms of showing the community the progress that we've made, I'm wondering if there's any way to simply tell the community what we need them to do to close these gaps, Because we know in each one of these categories, there are some hurdles.

[01:03:25] But if I'm resident in Fairfax County and I look at this chart, I might not know what are the obvious things I can do to help us achieve our goals here. We talked extensively about there's a limit to how much the county can do when it comes to greenhouse gas reductions and some of the other things that we have a narrow lane of what we can do.

[01:03:45] We need the community's help to finish the job. And that's one of the reasons why I'm very glad to see the relationship with groups like FACS in here, because we need those stakeholders that are trusted out there in the community and in some cases communicating to populations of people who will receive them differently than they receive county government saying, hey, think about doing this.

[01:04:11] And so I'm not asking this to be answered here, but what would be really nice to know is kind of what the top three or four things the community can do in each of the outcome areas to help us continue to move that needle in a simple way so that when they look at this chart, they're almost given instructions on how they can help.

[01:04:31] Thank you. We haven't yet matched the please do this to this chart, but I'd like to echo what Supervisor Stork mentioned about getting the champions in the community to tell their story so that, as you say, it's not just the government suggesting that you do this, but they hear that their neighbor did it.

[01:05:01] or if we now have a number of significant real estate development firms as members of Green Business Partners. We can highlight, hey, look what they did. And, of course, this helps them to see that their work is spotlighted.

[01:05:18] But it goes to, I don't want to oversimplify it, but a little healthy, friendly competition, peer pressure, essentially. Or another way to spin it is if it's not pressure, it's, hey, they did that, maybe I can do that too. And so, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I ask staff, let's, you know, create as many case studies as we can. Once we've got a success, create a case study and, and, and we can, we can promote the case studies to help get the word out. So it's not just someone telling

[01:05:57] you what to do, but you can see what someone like you has done. Yeah. And, and I think that's an important evolution of this because we we started with all things we can do and there's still plenty of things we can do but we need to have the community and trusted groups uh doing doing the rest of the piece then one other quick question um on the ev progress that you've made as county government's made is tremendous um i guess the question is are you aware of anywhere in the country where there's been a direct partnership with the municipal government and a charging network that can help accelerate.

[01:06:33] You know, we're doing all of this for our fleet and for customers who come to county facilities, but is there any creative partnerships we can be doing to accelerate these out in commercial areas where we might share the charging revenue or something? I mean, this is a revenue-generating opportunity.

[01:06:49] It's a big piece of upfront infrastructure cost to begin with. There's a lot of federal money for this, to the chairman's point, and I'm just wondering if we could accelerate greatly the network by playing some type of a direct role in getting more of these put into public commercial spaces and then guaranteeing to a certain extent that they're being properly maintained. As I mentioned earlier, I think it's a major challenge for people to adopt EV. Thank you. We'll look into that. Great. Thank you. Okay. Supervisor Smith. So on

[01:07:26] the subject of EV charging, has there been any discussion about the pros and cons of having some level three rather than just all level two charging? Level three is attractive because it's so fast. Level three is also extremely expensive to install. It is really 10 times more electric power there, and the cost can be 10 times more than level two. We've got a staffer who owns an

[01:08:03] electric vehicle. And he's let me know that there is a Tesla supercharger network across Monument Drive over in Fairfax Corner. And so that does provide, that, you know, addresses that potent need. And now that Tesla is opening up charging to Ford and GM as well, that will help. I think the stations that we'll install here for employees and visitors will also help the neighbors for

[01:08:33] that matter, if they're in the townhouses and so forth. So yes, level three, the fast charging is wow, but the price tag's also wow.

[01:08:51] And I think John earlier referred to the scope of work that we're looking at with an outside group to see whether it makes sense for us to identify gaps in the network. That could be a gap in level three charging somewhere in the county and does it make sense for us to play a role and facilitate the filling of that that gap but there's kind of some information gathering yeah i think that's important for us to just consider things not like all level three but you know time is an issue and as people get more evs i think that'll become more of an issue

[01:09:24] thank you okay we'll go down this way supervisor alcorn uh thank you mr chairman um slide four love slide floor for this is great. I think there's a lot of usage here. Two questions or one question, one request. One, if we do accomplish, and I know this is just probably a subset of outcomes, but if we accomplish all these things, what percentage of our climate neutrality goal will we achieve? Do you know that? I don't have a numerical number, but I suspect it is high.

[01:10:01] Okay. It would be good if even you get kind of a, you know, just general, you know, does that get us 80% there, 50%, you know, 95%, whatever. That'd be helpful. And sort of along those lines, too, I think it would also be helpful, maybe not totally changing the way you do this, but it would be helpful to get a sense of, to reach our climate neutrality goals, which of these are more important.

[01:10:29] You know, where, and I realize some of these we don't have really control over, like, you know, the grid. And, you know, that's not us. But in terms of where the needle could be moved, which of these, I guess, are the big ones and, you know, and how much.

[01:10:51] So, and I guess I'm also suggesting that, you know, at some point it would be helpful for us to see for those big needle moving items, you know, even if it's the grid.

[01:11:08] You know, what Chairman McKay was saying, maybe to go down the rabbit hole a little bit on those, what can people do to help move the needle? Because obviously we're not going to be able to move all these needles. So, you know, how much is, you know, would this get us to our goal?

[01:11:29] Which of these are really critical or at least have the biggest bang for the buck in terms of moving us towards climate neutrality if they change? And then sort of stepping down, what needs to be done? What can others do? What could we do more to maybe be more effective in those?

[01:11:46] And I think those are all really, really good points. One thing that I'll suggest that board members can consider distributing on your newsletters is we did put together a climate action checklist, and I think some mini climate action checklists, maybe coming out of a previous discussion we had about starting with the EPA footprint calculator, calculate your carbon footprint, and then here's the list of actions you can take.

[01:12:14] So we have that material, and I'll say I could do a better job of pushing that out into the community, but it does really walk people through the things that they can do. I think to the chairman's point, it would be great to map those actions to our broader metrics and goals.

[01:12:33] Okay, Supervisor Stork. Thank you, and thank you, John Morrill, and your team. And this is to me the culmination of years of effort to try to simplify a very incredibly complex subject, and I think this has been brilliant.

[01:12:50] I think this does that. I think we'll still have to do a lot of work to really understand it and follow it, et cetera. And I would highlight to folks here that particularly slide four, those are 2030 goals for a lot of those.

[01:13:06] So 2030 goals are intentional in there. That's exactly the ones we should be focused on. And then we have to then we hopefully meet those and then we focus on 2040 or 2050 or whatever those are. So just to remind folks that these get us on a path but don't necessarily get us there.

[01:13:24] I also wanted to thank you, I think, in the 2023 climate plans of progress update. I love page 11 just because it has in there all the different initiatives we had before this, which were the Environmental Vision, the Fairfax Green Initiative, the JET Final Report, Carbon Neutral Counties, Sustainability Initiatives, and then just identifies it.

[01:13:50] Okay, those have now all been put together into the three that we really have, which is the Operational Energy Strategy and Sustainable Development Policy, CCAP, and then Resilient Fairfax. So we have really, we've boiled those down into things I think we can keep talking about.

[01:14:08] And the final point I'd make is I know that I brought this up previously, and again, we've come a long way, but I think each of our board offices have to step up and do more, and particularly friendly competition or whatever you want to call it.

[01:14:26] And I know we, and I'm, you know, my partner for many years would say when you point a finger at somebody, there's three coming back at you. So, I mean, there's always three coming back at you. So I know that that's an opportunity for each board office to organize and work and help to develop these champions within their community, particularly in particular segments.

[01:14:47] And I would love to see even friendly competition to identify within CCAP, there are more than 10 segments or sectors in there, even if each board office kind of took one that was maybe more central to their particular district and would become the leader and, if you will, Report among ourselves about how we're doing to try to particularly focus on wanting to drive it forward.

[01:15:11] That might be another way. So those are some ideas. I'm happy to talk with each of you individually. I know that we've got a long way to go in Mount Vernon District, and I'm happy to step up and do more as well. So thank you all. Okay, Supervisor Patrick. Thank you. I will take you up on that challenge, Supervisor Stork.

[01:15:28] I was actually going to point out and ask how we can do more to help with the Green Business Partners. I know you mentioned those here. have quite a few already in my district small and large businesses that have gotten engaged and I believe from their website that you are already working on we still highlight them if there's more we can do to help highlight them so that our residents go and consider them highly when they're looking for businesses as well as help spread the word and really build that competition, friendly competition there as well. I think especially with our large and growing

[01:16:07] business community. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. Happy to have you follow up, but that's one that I'd be very excited to help us champion more. Thank you. We now have periodic lunches with environmental staff, and so we've been noodling a number of ideas and encouraging this further outreach. So we'll continue talking. Okay, wonderful. As a follow up, I noticed there were some events posted for 23. If you have any for 24 already, if not, if they're in the works, if you could let us know when you have them, we'll help post them out. Thank you. Great. Supervisor Jimenez and then Behrman.

[01:16:47] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one quick. It was great to see the slide of the funding opportunities, especially looking at the EPA. Obviously, the money coming out of IRA right now is it's coming out fast. Communities all over the country are getting some really, really good help. And one of the sticking points, one of the things that they're looking for are vulnerable communities. And I see that you have climate justice community changes grant. You know, I would encourage you to contact me in our office. I think that Mason District especially is a fantastic

[01:17:24] a place as an innovative hub for the kind of work that the EPA right now is funding. And again, the funding money that's coming out, it's coming out quick. They are just pushing it out as quick as they can right now, and communities are getting a lot of help right now.

[01:17:40] So it'd be great to speak with you and talk to you a little bit more about some of these opportunities. Thank you. Supervisor Behrman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. But just to try to take it full circle from where we started this morning, I think one of the big challenges and one of the things that I hope you can do in part through some of the competition, Supervisor Palczyk mentioned with businesses, but also residential buildings, making sure that our residential buildings, beyond just retrofitting, but all new residential developments are trying to figure out better ways to conserve energy.

[01:18:20] I think people want that. And I'll note that on page 19 of your broader implementation, you talk about how, and on that slide up there, you talk about how the, you know, all new eligible buildings have a commitment to green building.

[01:18:42] But I think that to the degree that eligible buildings expands or we're, at the very least, you know, trying to incentivize private actors who may not have to go through the entitlement process to still be putting in and using energy efficient windows to be considering solar panels on houses, what have you. That's a really, in some ways, that takes us from the plan being here to here. That's the next step. So if you have any comments on the work you're already doing on that

[01:19:17] front um would love to hear them but that's sort of what something that jumped out to me uh thank you it's it's it's largely a matter of of um kind of the bully pulpit and and encouraging or you know incentivizing through things like solarize uh for new construction it is unfortunate that we have no authority to require um new home building to exceed code understood

[01:19:52] yeah and obviously you know building code issues are something we've we've spent a lot of time on at the legislative committee and we continue to kind of bang away at that every year but that's it's a challenging issue in in richmond for a lot of different reasons but we'll keep keep working on it okay well we uh we started a few minutes late but we made up some time so thank you everyone appreciate it thank you mr moral

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