Coraggio Consulting
Fairfax County School Board Work Session, Tuesday, January 10, 2023

Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2023
Place: Fairfax County School Board, Virginia
Length: 3h 26m (video)
Official meeting video (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FExXvur1jm8
Official School Board page (FCPS): https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/leadership/school-board

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-11-04. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:06] All right, thank you for waiting for us. Before we begin, in order to comply with section 2.2-3712D of the Code of Virginia, it is necessary for the board to certify that since the Fairfax County School Board convened a closed meeting on January 10th, 2023, to the best of each member's knowledge, only public business matters lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements, and only such public business matters as were identified in the motion convening the closed section were heard, discussed, or considered by the board during the closed session. Do I have a motion? Dr. Anderson, seconded by Ms.

[00:00:44] Omesh. All in favor? All right, that is unanimous. And I have one more order of business. Ms. Sizemore-Hizer has submitted a written request to virtually attend today's meeting due to a personal conflict, and Ms. Cohen has submitted a

[00:01:05] written request to virtually attend today's meeting due to a medical conflict all in favor of approving these requests. All right, that is unanimous with all of us in the room. Thank you. And I now turn this over to Miss Bikarski to start our first topic on the capital improvement program. But this one is good morning, everyone. Mr. Franshaw, welcome to your first CIP with Fairfax County. We've got a tight two hour block for this. So we

[00:01:40] We have asked staff who's posted a very extensive presentation with lots of data to kind of high level talk through it and hopefully everyone's had the opportunity to look through that, if not, it is posted, but we want to get to discussion.

[00:01:57] So thank you for being here. Sorry, Mr. Smith, I apologize, I did not welcome you to introduce. So if we're ready to begin, so good afternoon, everyone.

[00:02:13] I just want to make sure, Ms. Pekarski, that we are ready to begin the work session. Okay, we're good to go. So good afternoon, everyone. We're excited to bring you the CIP work session this afternoon. We have lots of great information to share. I do want to begin by thanking each one of you for engaging in our two-by-twos. That process really did help inform the presentation for today. I know that a few have asked some questions that we have answers for and that we'll be able to provide. And so we're going to get started. I do just want to take a

[00:02:47] point of privilege for myself to thank the team for their work around the CIP. At the table we have Jessica Gillis who is our Executive Director for Capital Improvement and Planning. We have Lidi Haruda who is our Director for the Office of Research and Strategic Improvement. We have the team along the wall there from Facilities and Transportation Services. And then I do want to take a moment to publicly thank Mr. Chuck Fanshawe for his work not only with the CIP but all the support that he has provided everyone at FCPS during his tenure as interim. He has certainly

[00:03:25] been, and I don't use these words lightly, but clearly a breath of fresh air for our work in Fairfax County Public Schools. He has brought a very crucial and different lens to our planning process and it's evident in the presentation today as we think about how we might address our capital improvement planning down the road and so mr.

[00:03:49] Fanshawe it has been truly an honor to work with you this year and I'm grateful for the perspective that you've brought and I'm grateful that you have given your time in retirement to FCPS Fairfax County Public School so thank Thank you for that.

[00:04:06] And with that, I am going to turn the presentation over to Mr. Fanshawe, and we'll have time then for questions at the end of the presentation. Thank you, Marty. Good afternoon. Today we're going to provide a brief presentation on the proposed Capital Improvement Program for fiscal year '24 through '28.

[00:04:27] Next slide, please. At the request of the meeting managers, we have included a slide for the follow-ons adopted by the school board during last year's CIP process. These include work on a future Western High School, the development of a plan for the state construction grant, and the assessment and report of school nutrition best practices. Next slide please. As stated previous previously a capital improvement program is a planning and fiscal management tool used to coordinate the location timing and funding of projects over five years. The

[00:05:05] cash flow is submitted to the county for incorporation into the larger Fairfax County CIP. The FCPS CIP includes an annual review of student membership and facilities data to identify capital projects. Newly identified needs are included in the estimated schedule of capital projects for the next five years and the capital cash flow tracks the funding allocation for these projects. Next slide please. This slide covers what is new in this year's CIP. This year we've included the asset management and environmental sustainability information and have put them into individual

[00:05:44] sections for those topics. The resources section has been updated to reflect the 2021 magisterial district changes and references to the ongoing process to update the capital project community engagement process are also noted. Lastly, a reference to the applicable page of the draft CIP can be found in the upper right-hand corner of most slides. Next slide. This slide gives an overview of the certified students September student membership for school year 22-23 FCPS experienced a decline of total membership since school year 19-20

[00:06:24] when the COVID-19 pandemic began total certified September membership for this school year is the client of 8900 students or 5% from the 19-20 school year data for these three factors the factors shown are included in the slides at the end of this presentation for reference. As mentioned earlier, total membership also has been found to increase by approximately 1,000 students from September 22 through November of 2022. Next slide, please. The five-year

[00:07:03] projection set included in the CIP reflects an overall decline in membership for the five-year period. The recent decline and ongoing changes in membership, it is important to highlight that projections are updated annually in the CIP to reflect changing conditions. As requested by the school board last year, the Office of Research and Strategic Improvements has produced an analysis of FCPS membership which will be briefed at the end of my presentation. Next slide please. This graphic shows information on FCPS staff's

[00:07:40] review and collaboration with the county planning staff on countywide residential development beyond the five-year horizon. To identify impacts on school facilities staff monitors new residential development during one the plan amendment review process for Fairfax County comprehensive plans the review to the review process of rezoning applications and three as a part of five-year membership projection set development include included in each year CIP as an example of this long-range planning initiative with the county is

[00:08:19] the acquisition of the silver line elementary school site the need for a school site was identified by FCPS staff as part of the comprehensive plan review of land unit a within the Dulles Suburban Center a school site was recommended by FCPS staff and dedicated as a proffer as part of a zoning application I will point out that in my opinion this is not a long-range facilities plan but this is this would be part of a future long-range plan I'd recommend that a strategic facilities review be completed that looks at our

[00:08:55] current inventory of properties to see if they are being used for their highest and best use. The review would be the place where the many individual ideas I've heard could be evaluated holistically and with system-wide impact considered. From there and with the strategic the system's strategic plan in place the long-range plant long-range facilities plan would follow.

[00:09:22] Next slide. Funding sources for capital projects include the CIP in the CIP include the general obligation bond as voted on by residents in the biannual school bond referendum.

[00:09:37] The annual limit for general obligation bond funding has increased over time. The most recent increase is an annual allocation of $205 million per year and an upcoming increase to $230 million a year, which is still insufficient to renovate the schools in the current renovation queue.

[00:09:56] We thank Fairfax County and the Board of Supervisors for their continued partnership, which resulted in increased funding to support FCPS capital projects. As a result of escalation in the construction industry, FCPS continues to closely monitor these costs as they relate to FCPS capital projects.

[00:10:16] Additional funds that impact the CIP include FCPS operating funds, funds from the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors for infrastructure management and proffers, and the state construction grant.

[00:10:33] Types of capital projects in the CIP include new construction, new school construction, capacity enhancements, which include additions and modulars, facility renovations, and potential site acquisition, which are defined on this slide.

[00:10:49] Next slide, please. Recently completed capital projects include capacity enhancements at West Potomac High School and Madison High School. Next slide. And renovations at Washington Mill Elementary School, Hughes Middle School, and Oakton and Herndon High Schools. This slide summarizes the capital projects identified in the capital construction cash flow for the next five and ten years.

[00:11:19] Okay, now next slide. Thanks. A summary of funding for these projects is on this slide. The total five-year funding requirement is approximately 1.4 billion dollars. Approximately 470 million is funded by bonds and approximately 935 million is unfunded. The total 10-year requirement is approximately two billion dollars of which approximately five hundred and fourteen is funded and one and a half billion is not next slide please

[00:11:51] construction bids for 2021 bond projects completed in 2022 reflected the state of the market with 30% plus 30% plus cost increase projects were valued engineered to reduce cost and we still needed to access the construction reserve which was established by past project savings the increase in the county's bond allocation to schools is not sufficient to cover these cost increases additionally we have to consider and account for cost increases

[00:12:30] associated with a variety of escalation factors including labor shortages which are leading to higher wages for construction workers fewer con fewer contractors or contractors who choose to sit out bidding our work and supply chain issues which are still a thing for example we used to what used to be a 10 to 12 week delivery time is now 60 weeks or more one way to mitigate this is to use other authorized procurement methods like construction manager at risk contracts which allow us to bring contractors on board during the school

[00:13:08] design phase so that materials may be ordered long ahead of their need excite next slide thank you for capital project timelines and durations the projects are listed in the CIP updates which are provided on an annual basis the school bond referendum is on the ballot every other year in odd years architectural and engineering services are procured via a request for proposal with information on project assignments provided to the board during the process design of bond approved projects kick off in the spring following the bond

[00:13:47] vote and this phase lasts approximately two to four years depending on the size of the project. The construction phase is started with school board approval of contractor selection. There are multiple school and community meetings throughout the project timeline. I'll also note that this is a this slide is a work in progress and is our first attempt to depict the timeline for a project. As you can see school type has a major impact. This timeline along with another process flowchart which is developed will eventually become part of

[00:14:20] our project communication and engagement strategy next slide this slide shows the process for the development of the new renovation queue the current renovation queue is anticipated to have funding for planning and design by 2027 with planned bond referenda a new renovation queue will need to be developed for future renovations this will occur in three phases phase one is currently underway which is to develop the criteria for the new queue a consultant is on board and will engage stakeholders, including the school board, shortly after the CIP process is

[00:14:59] completed. Once the criteria is set, phase two will commence, which will assess the criteria set developed in phase one, which will include assessments of our physical facilities. Phase three will be to implement the new queue, which would be incorporated in future CIP and bond referenda when complete. We are working with OCCR on the communication plan to ensure meaningful community input during

[00:15:29] this process. It is anticipated that the new Q development will be completed by 2025. Next slide please. The JET recommendations called for new county buildings and major renovations starting in 2021 to achieve net zero energy. These enhancements will typically include photovoltaic solar arrays and ground source heat with geothermal wells. We're currently working to ensure major renovations are net zero ready which would provide infrastructure and not preclude

[00:16:05] future installation of these items. Next slide. Currently, as schools are renovated, the Office of Design and Construction replaces and updates all building systems wall-to-wall. The current cycle between renovations is approximately 37 years and growing at this time, much longer than the 20 to 25-year renovation cycle identified in Policy 8258. I'll also note that only major assets are tracked developing this funding requirement.

[00:16:46] This slide provides a breakdown of the cost of infrastructure replacement requirements by type of replacement for the next five years. And just so you see, the requirements are on the top half and the funding is on the bottom.

[00:17:01] As I just mentioned, we are unable to come close to our goal of fully renovating facilities every 20 to 25 years. There are many building systems that will not last 37 or more years and I propose we create creating a capital asset preservation or renewal program.

[00:17:20] There are many facility components that have shorter life cycles than the buildings they support and require replacement at least every 10 years or so depending on the capital component type and the frequency and intensity of use. Typical facility components would include electrical, heating, ventilation, and air conditioning components like chillers, boilers, and air handlers, roofing and elevators. While the impact would delay one renovation project, it would likely allow five or six other schools to receive a thoughtful system renewal instead. This would also allow more

[00:18:00] maintenance dollars to be spent on preventive maintenance instead of reactive maintenance or repair, which is an industry best practice. Next slide. Environmental sustainability highlights of of FCPS facilities are shown on this slide and include get to green, energy conservation, solar energy projects, and electrical vehicle conversion.

[00:18:28] Next slide, please. Upcoming dates for the CIP are highlighted on this slide. Today is January 10th, a school board work session on the CIP. A public hearing for the CIP is scheduled for day after tomorrow, January 12th, and school board action on the CIP is scheduled for February 9th, 2023.

[00:18:50] This concludes my presentation on the CIP. I will turn it over to Leidy, Director of Office, the Office of Research and Strategic Improvement, to discuss their analysis of FCPS student membership as requested by the school board last year.

[00:19:07] So, good afternoon. The updated report that we provided this year was focused around answering one specific question, which had to do with how stable our membership is now following the decrease that we saw during the COVID pandemic.

[00:19:23] that was kind of the end point of the last report that was provided last year that it wasn't stable enough really to base any kind of ongoing decision making on and underlying all of this in relation to the cip is of course understanding membership trends so that we can understand what kind of facilities might be needed in different parts of the county moving on to the first slide with the data what we found is that membership and migration have stabilized after being impacted at the the beginning of the pandemic and you can see on this slide this the line at

[00:19:57] the top is membership since 2017-18 up until this past September for 22-23 and the columns below that show migration in and out as Mr. Fanshawe mentioned migration in and out is one of the big reasons that membership might change and so we have seen not only an overall stabilizing in the number at around a 180,000 in membership, but also a stabilizing in the migration in and out, which was one of the issues previously.

[00:20:28] Most of the decrease that we saw at the start of the COVID pandemic, that 10,000 decrease was due to students not arriving in FCPS, roughly 60% to 70% of the changes were students not coming as opposed to students leaving the school division.

[00:20:47] The other point on the next data slide around grade 12 cohorts is we have an ongoing decrease or decline in membership that happens every year as our grade 12 cohort which is larger leaves the system and our kindergartners arrive which is a smaller cohort of students.

[00:21:08] That's expected to continue over the next several years as well and will continue to be a downward push on membership unless we have more migration in which we are currently that would make our our membership decline over time but because we have the membership coming in or the migration in our our numbers tend to be more stable and we expect that to continue over the next several years and with that I will end that brief update on membership and so I just like to thank everyone here at the table for the information that we've provided in the CIP

[00:21:45] I know that there are likely questions from the board and we're here to answer those questions and we also know that the board also in the past has wanted to use this time to have conversations across the table about the CIP and so we're here to answer those questions and help facilitate that conversation. The first board member that would like to speak is Carl Frisch. First I want to commend the

[00:22:23] team about how far we've come with our CIP over the last few years. The document better and better every year and this is no exception let's go to slide 14 really quick where we talk about what i think is the most important slide of of the cip uh presentation today um and that is how much more we are paying for construction projects right now than was anticipated or is customary um and i did communicate some with staff on this subject before

[00:22:59] both during my two by two and also over email and i want to bring some of that to the board conversation so can you reiterate how much of the facilities first of all the facilities reserve is where facilities over time has managed to save a dollar here and there or a million dollars here or there um on projects and then that has helped us fund you know playgrounds at schools that need need to be written, those kinds of things over time. Can you let us know how much that reserve was and where it stands today? Sure. So at the start of 2022, the construction reserve balance

[00:23:38] was about $31 million. Projects which were funded by the bond were Falls Church High School, Wakefield Forest Elementary School, Louise Archer, and Justice High School. They were going, which would need to tap into the reserve and then to receive funding following the value engineering. Sorry. The current construction reserve balance is now at $16 million. In

[00:24:12] an effort to retain some balance in the reserve, the 2023 school bond referendum, we're considering crafting part of it to account for inflation of current projects so as not to deplete our reserve completely. - So in layman's terms, we've spent half of the reserve.

[00:24:31] Falls Church High School still needs another $33 million in addition to what it was bonded for, even though we only have 16 million left in the reserve. And to get a solution on this, y'all are thinking about including something to address this in the next bond. - Correct.

[00:24:46] I mean, there's really no unprecedented amount of escalation over the last year, which was unanticipated by no one. - I see that as really the option going forward.

[00:25:01] - And it's correct that we've spent an estimated more than $50 million in unanticipated costs for construction. - Correct. - And typically an elementary school renovation costs $25 million. So we're talking about the ability to renovate two elementary schools that we've had in additional cost, not to mention the money from the reserve that was spent.

[00:25:26] Finally, for upcoming or recent projects, much are we spending compared to what is typical though the up for our upcoming construction bids we're estimating 30% over and this season we have four bids remaining Justice High School Crossfield Elementary Mosaic Elementary and Bonnie Bray Elementary renovations that shortfall at the 30% is about 28 million dollars across those four projects and we will have actual numbers when the

[00:26:01] when the bids are all open which will conclude in March of this year some school board member in this room represents an elementary school that will not be renovated because of the overruns of current projects and I bring that up well I bring that up because one of the things that's listed on this page is renovations being deferred no one wants to slow things down but we are shooting ourselves in the foot by pouring this money out the window instead of waiting perhaps a year to see if prices stabilize for construction materials there's not a lot we can do about prevailing way wage but where we

[00:26:40] can do something is with the cost of the materials for construction there was an article last week about how timber has come down by 30% over the last year and hopefully we're seeing that in other areas too but simply by pausing worst case scenario things don't start for a year best case scenario we save ourselves forty fifty million dollars which will enable us to pick up two additional projects rather than wasting it on a project that should have cost half as much so in the weeks ahead before CIP is voted on I'll be talking to staff about what a pause would look like whether there's a contract change

[00:27:17] that would benefit us that would keep us from having to do a pause and also be talking to colleagues about it any thoughts on pausing new contracts so I don't have thoughts on pausing the new contracts at this point but I will I I will add that the logic you're using for brick-and-mortar also holds true for real estate as well.

[00:27:39] When you think about the environment we're currently in for real estate, when we think about interest rates, it might be prudent for us to come together with the possible recommendations for us to think about the timing on certain purchases so that we can maximize our spending power for major land purchases down the road.

[00:27:58] So I wanted to add that as part of the conversation as well. But I'll let the rest of the team weigh in on the possible slowdown. So I think we're talking a hypothetical until we see some of our bids come in.

[00:28:17] And then I definitely could be speaking with a little more assurance as to where things are going. I mean, in discussions with other systems about what they're looking at as far as escalation into the future the rate will go down so it won't be increasing as much but nobody sees a retreat at this point in time to the previous level what we saw two years ago so I think I mean it's absolutely worth monitoring it's gonna have a huge impact and every school system that I've talked to is wrestling

[00:28:53] with the same question at this point in time and and the reality is the dollars are what they are and we can build up to the dollars we have and which is going to mean it takes longer to get work all the way through the list. And what I didn't mention is that we're also eating up every single penny of the new money coming from the Board of Supervisors and increased construction dollars. Right. So the construction bond cap increase is about 28 percent. So the extra $50 million plus the reserve fund and we're still paying double. All right, moving on to

[00:29:33] another topic. Excited to see some meat on the bones around the expected Q process. Can you talk a little bit about how long you think the first stage of gathering input from stakeholders will take? Sure. So we started the initial planning for it at this time and we have a consultant on board so we're ready to move with the information gathering as soon as we finish the CIP and I want to put two things on top of one other another for

[00:30:08] all of our sakes but as I see it it should flow into that discussion from from this because really we're setting the stage of how we want to do things going forward some of the discussions we're having here even okay one last thing before I go and I'll want to go back as we continue this conversation I think we should use the right language we don't have jet recommendations anymore we have board directives built off of jet recommendations and those board

[00:30:41] directives were passed by a vote of the board unanimously Corbett Sanders thank you and thank you for your hard work on this it has been a continuous process of continuous improvement on our cip since i've been on the board and i just really appreciate all your hard work um and i welcome your comments carl on the impact of the economy in which we are currently

[00:31:20] operating so i think that's important i also think though that it's important to um look at our student trends and so i do welcome a the analysis of how each and every one of our buildings in this county is being used and if they are being used effectively. Over a year ago, we were informed that you would be undertaking a review of all of our alternative school programs because we have buildings that have very few students in them. And so looking at how we utilize our real estate is very critical. But there's another piece, and that is we know how important the

[00:31:58] pre-k pieces and Lidia I think you did an excellent job on our trends would it be possible for you to take a look at those trends and build in what the impact on our student load would be our student enrollment if we were to make sure that every child that is on a wait list for pre-k in this county was accommodated we could certainly take a look at it and try to do that there are some differences in where we put our preschoolers versus others, but we could, I could check with

[00:32:36] the early childhood folks about whether that would be possible to kind of take the wait list and put them where they would normally attend. Yeah, I think that would be very important because we know that during the COVID shutdown across the country and across this county, that there were, I read one article and I can't remember exactly where it was, but that there were a thousand pre-K slots that were lost but that most of them had come back but they didn't necessarily come back into the areas in which there was the need and so it would be helpful for us to best understand and i

[00:33:12] know you've been doing some work in this area of how that impacts the capacity in our schools that would be great and i would hope that that would also be part of your analysis of our how our buildings are used and then finally I think it will be very important for us to take a look at the the environmental issues because this board voted unanimously to support the deployment of solar on our schools and I know that we

[00:33:51] are still waiting to have that accelerated I think at this point there are two schools and obviously the there's a initial investment but there is a large savings not only in direct energy costs but there is a savings on the impact of kids if they if we have cleaner energy we're using and we plan to in the new year we partnered with the county to have the solar the contract extended which they have done for a year so we're hopeful to work with the two

[00:34:25] contractors that are on that contract to see if we can get additional proposals in from them on our next level of schools. And one last thing, you know, safety and security is always front and center for all of us. Do you think it would be possible to add a section on safety and security to our CIP to include where we are on vestibules, where we are on the replacement of locks, and where we are on the deployment of additional cameras?

[00:34:59] Because that's where most of our community looks for a status update. Certainly. We could look into that. Most of the improvements and enhancements that we've done to the CIP have come from this table. And so we will certainly look at providing that as another section in the CIP and be able to report on that next year.

[00:35:21] And if we could have an interim report before then. Thank you. Dr. Anderson. Thank you so much. Thank you again for this presentation. And I have to say, I was very pleased with my, I didn't get a two by two. I had an individual session. It was very, I was very appreciative of being able to ask a lot of questions and to hear some of the work. So I'm just going to jump in here.

[00:36:00] I do want to lend my support for the Q, the plans that were described in this document, because I just feel like we've been doing this in a manner that is not the most productive, where we're just jockeying for positions and not having a set of objective criteria that will not be relying on school board member initiative or community motivation in order for us to do the right work as we're looking at the division as a whole, not as individual neighborhoods.

[00:36:28] You mentioned that you know you're trying to get it started and some parts of it have begun. When do you anticipate that beginning to impact the process after the board has adopted it in 2027 I believe? I'm sorry 2025? Just trying to get a sense of the queue and the timeline. When would that start having impact in the system?

[00:36:53] Sure. So we still have schools left on the current queue, which we would respect finishing those because they've been waiting the time they've been waiting. So the reason we've started now is to have the new criteria set and in place by 2025 so that we can then, and that includes creating the new queue, not only based on the criteria, but after the analysis, the objective analysis of the facility condition.

[00:37:24] So time-wise, it would be ready for the next bond cycle because we, help me if you. So our current renovation queue is anticipated to have funding for planning and design through 2027 with the planned bond referenda.

[00:37:43] So after that 27 bond referenda, then we would go into this new queue. So 2029 bond referenda. So pretty much, I guess what you're asking, and confirm this for me, is for us to refrain from adding to any kind of queue at this time, because I know much of that advocacy takes place here, just to wait until that process has been completed.

[00:38:06] Yes, and that's what I would say. And I think, coupled with a few other changes in how we look at performing work as well, I mentioned the capital asset renewal or preservation plan, which would, it's a different way of looking at renovations.

[00:38:25] That will impact, I think, how we look at the queue created. I mean, we're looking at injecting money in between that 37-plus year cycle for other work to be done so that schools are not in the dire straits.

[00:38:41] They may be while they're waiting that last few years to get their renovation done. So I think it's more than just the cue. It's also doing things a little differently to have facilities that are in good condition and not get them to that point where some of them are, where we're having to spend money and then we renovate the school and it probably wasn't the best way to spend that money, if that makes sense.

[00:39:08] It does, but I'm going to follow up with that in a minute. I see my time just really going down really quickly. If you could speak a little bit to the communication. When it comes to the renovation, addition, whatever it is that we're doing in the school community, I would like for you to speak to what our community can expect moving forward because I've been burned not once but twice on this matter.

[00:39:29] And I know it's part of FCDC's work at this point. I know what you mean. Thank you. All the C's, all the D's. Did I say FCDC?

[00:39:48] Okay. CPDC. That group, yes. So we have discussed it as part of the rollout, and I wanted to highlight some of what we've done here was trying to create a more simpler process. The timeline chart was one first step so that people know when things happen, improving the communication, our mechanisms.

[00:40:14] I think we have made some steps over the last, since I've been here, on trying to establish a different rigor in our communication process and set expectations for meetings at certain points with websites that are up to date and that are the one-stop shop resource for a project where people know to look.

[00:40:38] Engagement with different stakeholders at different levels and at the right times to make sure that we have meaningful input from all the people that should be giving us input. So that's kind of the vision and what we're trying to work towards. Thank you. One of the things I want to make sure that I highlight is the opportunity for input while there's still chance to influence the process.

[00:41:02] It's not just, oh, you're telling us, but it's too late now because things have already proceeded beyond the opportunity for, you know, revisions. So that's important to the community. On page 13 here of the document, you highlighted what's funded, what's unfunded, and we see this every year, and it's a shocking graphic.

[00:41:22] I would love to hear any thoughts that you have in terms of how can we close this gap locally, at the state level, and nationally. Because our buildings are crumbling, and we know we're throwing good money after bad because of that other chart that you shared, where we're replacing parts of the building off cycle and that does not help us to maximize their lifespan because we're doing it piecemeal. How can we get to a place where we can meet our needs a little bit more quickly than we currently are able right now? Quickly is a tough question.

[00:42:01] Quicker. Quicker is still a tough question in this environment. I think seeing where the numbers end up this year is going to kind of tell us and I think I think we might have to sit down and decide what what do we need to do do we need to do the type of renovations we're doing at that level I think we have to look at all all of our all the tools in our toolkit for yeah the the I can't remember what page it's on and the CIP where we have the

[00:42:36] whole list of things to consider programming as far as capacity in schools or so any other it's to look at the current options that the board has available to it as we think about anything from program placements and buildings how we use utilize space and buildings all the way to option H which is looking at boundaries and so looking at all those adjustments helps us to

[00:43:07] leverage our current capacity that we have in our buildings. And if we could leverage that capacity in a different way, those are dollars that we wouldn't have to use in terms of the cash flow for additions for enrollment purposes. And so thinking about ways to make that red section smaller is all part of those options, A through H, that we should all be considering.

[00:43:32] And what efforts are ongoing to ensure that we are maximizing this, where we do have space, whether it's within the building or around an area? Ms. Gillis, I know we briefly talked about that, so could you speak to this, please?

[00:43:50] Sure, so we work with the principals, and we work on how they program their spaces to maximize the highest and best use for every room that they have. We also annually do a program review with DSS and ISD for which schools have capacity for additional programs and where the program needs are or where we might need to move programs out of one school and into another because they have a capacity concern before we go.

[00:44:15] And that's one of our potential solutions, which are options A through H. It's multiple places throughout the CIP for each region, et cetera, to go through like when we have a school that's either over or under capacity, what are some things that we can do to provide some relief? I'd run out of time. I'd like to go back, please. Ms. Cohen. Thanks very much. I think, you know, one question that I have is when we were looking at doing this five years ago, obviously two major

[00:44:54] things were different. Our enrollment projection was markedly different, and the funding was very different. It cost significantly less than it did, you know, five years ago when we started this current plan. So while I agree, and I understand that there's an expectation that this is how the plan is going to go, I understand that. But, you know, I guess I'm finding myself more in line with Carl's thinking about the idea of when, Mr. Fanshawe, you've been talking about doing an

[00:45:30] assessment of all of our facilities and thinking about how we do this in a different way. I wonder if right now, because we are in a very different and unique situation than we've ever been, is this not the time then, especially to be the most fiscally prudent that we can possibly be, to put a pause, do that evaluation of our facilities? Because you may come to us and say, look, Bonnie Bray, for example, would love a renovation, and here's all the reasons why, but X school is in much worse shape because of these seven factors that we've identified.

[00:46:09] So, you know, we'd like to have that conversation. And I only picked Bonnie Bray because Megan and I get to share it. It's a wonderful school with people who will be fully invested in whatever happens going forward. Also, people who very acutely understand our fiscal responsibility as a system.

[00:46:31] So, I guess that's my question. And of course, I know that Stella and I have, you know, repeatedly had this conversation about the Western High School. And so selfishly, I would say that being able to take a pause and evaluate where that extreme need is instead of a cue that may or may not be ordered in a way that you all think makes the most sense, you know, in my mind, certainly would speak to addressing more quickly what's happening on the Western end of the county.

[00:47:06] And the other question that I had, and then I'll pause, is that I, when we first started on this board, Ms. Tolan may have a better memory than I do, but I thought I remembered a conversation that we were going to change how capacity was addressed and that we were hiring somebody within your department, Ms. Gillis, about assessing capacity at schools instead of just relying on having our principals add one more thing to their plate to try to do that.

[00:47:36] without necessarily the architectural and design and urban planning skills necessary to do that particularly well. So I wondered if you all could give us an update on that as well. So we did hire a coordinator, Brian Schuster, who's now the acting director.

[00:47:54] So we've had a little bit of a pause on that work as he's covered for me as the vacancy that we've had when I got promoted to the executive director position. We have hired staff, capacity architects, who do reach out to principals when they have space utilization issues.

[00:48:11] But again, it's a decision that's made locally. So we can make lots of recommendations, but it's ultimately, at this point, the principal's decision. And when we say principal decision, we also work closely with our region offices as well. And so if principals have different needs for their buildings, what I don't want to say is that the principal says either yes or no, we're not going to do anything or implement any of your recommendations if we feel strongly about a recommendation we will work very closely with that principle and work very closely with the region office to ensure that we're all making the best decisions for students within that building

[00:48:49] i guess you know i would argue that seeing that firsthand sometimes that in some places that works better than than in others i know my time is over so i if you don't mind putting me on a go back i would appreciate it we will do that miss calfax thank you and thank you for all of this um because we have short amount of time i'm going to spend my time here on a property that sits in my area to talk to my colleagues about and with it's a bonded property in the root one corridor on the

[00:49:25] the franconia district side that was originally funded by a bond referendum in 2013. as i wrote to you in emails and as Dr. Reed has supported in her letter with a white paper that was done by Marty Smith and his team it talks about taking this bonded property that is no longer needed for capacity as known as Pinewood Lakes and making it a pre-k site with the maps that I showed everyone that staff has prepared and shared this area and this is the map that I want to show you you can see this is the three and four year olds below the federal poverty

[00:50:04] level and this dark green side is the highest level that there is there's a few other areas in the county but what other areas in the county don't have is a bonded property available to meet the needs of these pre-k students so Mr.

[00:50:20] Fanshawe I would ask you how much might it cost and if you don't have this number right now I get that to get design and construction to get design and planning done on possibly making this Pinewood Lakesite an early childhood education center? So our estimate would be $500,000 to do some initial planning and design work. Okay okay and in order to get that on this bond I would have to make an amendment to the CIP or yes something like that. So my colleagues I

[00:50:56] will be asking for your support to get this on here. I am happy to talk to to anyone about this as we move forward it is a small amount to pay to invest for a large future investment we cannot close achievement gaps without effective use of pre-k particularly in those areas where children do not receive it do not have the opportunity to receive it and if we can work in tandem eventually with our county partners to make this happen but if we can at least get it on the design phase right now. I would really appreciate your support and I you know I'll be moving forward on that and happy to talk to you about that. And just for

[00:51:34] clarification Mr. Koufax if I may. Yes please. You would like that added to the cash flow. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. And and also now that I put that all out there I do support you know realignment of the queue. We've done this a couple times right. We've had outside consultants come in. We we have chosen and then not to follow those recommendations so maybe this time we will work in a way this board and future boards will work in a way that you know there's there's lots of things to take into consideration and I support a new

[00:52:11] look at this so and maybe sooner than later even it on in the timeline that you outlined so thank you Karen keys Camaro thank you I'm I'm happy to follow columnist Darren at Koufax because much of my comments center on the prospect and the possibility of taking this moment to reevaluate where we are and perhaps how we can make sure

[00:52:46] that we're bringing along our stakeholders, the community is participating in those conversations so that we can have removed, demystified this process and the cue we've had to deal with in the past. So I know we've had some discussions about this, Mr. Fanshawe, in CPDC, particularly about the dates and what the community can expect with respect to outreach. We certainly don't have any final recommendations for that now, but that's in the works. What I would

[00:53:22] like to make sure and bring to the attention of my colleagues is that we perhaps include some of the things that I believe the community does have some confusion about, such as the bond process, right? We, you know, it takes years and years for that money to actually be used because of the queue, but perhaps we can, and I'm surprised we don't have anybody here from our communications department, but to the extent that we can include the story of capital improvement and what the

[00:53:55] process is and how we're making decisions i think we can do a better job with that so i'd like to include the bond process i'd like to include the question of and the need that i think this board has already identified with respect to needing to have pre-k sites and yet not having locations and so this is an opportunity to do that county-wide assessment and make recommendations as i look through the draft CIP, I see some schools at 163% capacity. Can we also identify those locations

[00:54:35] where perhaps the overcrowding is so significant that we need to at least discuss it with the community or make them aware that we have noted it and these are the plans going forward? So I'll I'll stop there and give you an opportunity to respond, if you'd like.

[00:54:55] Thank you. And I appreciate the comments, especially with regards to informing the community on the process and the timeline. We've made this first effort to get something out that we can at least talk from and really inform folks that it is not a quick process.

[00:55:15] you're spending two to four years in design and two to three years or more in construction that's an expectation that people may not have and we want to make sure that we're communicating how how long it takes and when we want to be talking to them I mean it's about keeping keeping the pro keeping the projects in front of folks so they remember what it is and and and how to stay involved so i i would just add my uh support for considering possible delays but i think it also

[00:55:51] needs to be a part of that community discussion right it has to make sense and and and uh that the community needs to be a part of that discussion and we can ensure that the community is part of that discussion it's also important uh for them to understand our potential solutions as we have those conversations about potential solutions so that if we're making decisions about capacity and are ever making changes to where students go to school that community is well aware of that as part of the process and as we do

[00:56:26] outreach about the the Q process so that we can get input from the community on that and our stakeholders it's important for them to understand how all of these factors fit together so there are no surprises at the end of the day when we have to start having conversations about having capacity in some schools and being over capacity in others so that we aren't necessarily just building ourselves out of these situations and that it's not a surprise for the community at the end of the day. Well I consider that the preparatory work you know an ounce of something is preparation okay you know what I'm trying to say

[00:57:02] and as we look at that I'd also like to make sure we look at the issue of repurposing right we may have some schools with lower um you know with lower student volume in the building what else can we is that a pre-k site is that offering more technical opera you know opportunities for our students uh perhaps i know you guys are looking at this all the time unfortunately i'm not sure the community knows that so i think we need to be more forthcoming and hopefully we can come up with a plan dr reed as to how to do that and i'll honor those zeros on the clock thank you

[00:57:37] nice miss mclaughlin can you turn your mic on megan oh i'm glad you noticed miss cohen

[00:58:15] anyway so a couple of things one i will be very supportive of miss koufax's request that we do anything and everything in this upcoming cip to further opportunities for pre-k this is something that has been going on since she and i first began more than a decade ago and it's long since time that we find those avenues as soon as possible i want to echo what ms corbett sanders said about underutilized buildings not just our alternative

[00:58:51] schools but dr reed i guess one of my questions to ask when i conclude my remarks is who or how can we better position facilities to have an analyst to be doing this with 200 buildings that is a job unto itself and i think it's been put at the bottom of the totem pole you know or certainly i'm not seeing it happen even for my district i've got two elementary schools that are quite small in the woodson pyramid there's i had

[00:59:24] conversations with Mr. Fanshawe's predecessor and this goes back to 2019 that we were going to try and and look at those two very small elementary schools smaller than Clifton Elementary for those who remember that got closed because it wasn't economically you know efficient to keep them open and or financially efficient and yet here we go so I feel like there's just a lot that facilities hasn't had the staff and the time and the analysis to get it done and I really want to support that if that means more positions and Mr. Fanshawe knows the interim you know part of your work is looking

[01:00:04] at where the needs are but that is a strong advocacy of mine um I'm very supportive of a new queue but I would also say that I would like to see how we do not wait until a 2029 bond to have a new you know proposal i mean if this is going to be a 2025 report then the 2027 bond we every every year we go by is not just the planning money but then it's the construction and renovation so i i would like us to be aggressive in doing that because that's far too long to be waiting that

[01:00:43] we're going to essentially approach the next decade and if there is time permitting i would I would like to go back 'cause I already ran out. - Ms. Meheron? - Oh, I'm sorry. - I do want to follow up and so we can certainly, I'll work with Mr. Fanshawe and also with Ms. Burden as we look at, and with Dr. Wilson as we look at possible vacant positions that we have within FTS for the possibility of ensuring that we have a position or an individual who can do some of that work.

[01:01:15] And so we'll take a look at that in the coming weeks. And then certainly as we look at the renovation queue and as we get recommendations from our consultant about within those three phases, we can certainly look at possibly grandfathering some of the schools that are at the end of the queue if there is an ability for us to share with the community and share with the board and our stakeholders what a future focus might be so that there's an understanding of what's happening down the road while still grandfathering some of those schools that are at the end of the queue.

[01:01:52] It's highly likely, given where they are in the queue, that they will still be in need of renovation. So we could certainly look at condensing that timeline based on what the review shows. Ms. Tolan, I had asked the question of Dr. Reed as well.

[01:02:08] I know Mr. Smith answered that, but I'd like to hear her thoughts on, does she agree that getting an analyst to look at our 200 schools, because we can't rely on fpac either for that i think we will make better decisions with better data and if our data is not what it could be then we need someone to provide the data in a way we can view it and actually make it actionable i think that often in school divisions it's not the building utilization is directly related to the enrollment patterns of students so it's often

[01:02:45] the conversation divisions don't want to have is around boundary adjustments but often if you take the total amount of students and the total amount of square footage in classrooms there's a nice match it's just they're in the wrong places and the county right and in terms of transportation and all of those pieces it creates a challenge so to answer your question directly yes i'm supportive of that because we'll make better decisions with better data note that program placement though can sometimes supplant boundary changes. It's just stop

[01:03:15] crowding a school. Ms. Marin. Thank you. I'm really glad to hear the excellent points made by Mr. Frisch about the analysis and those questions that have been bubbled up and infiltrated in other people's comments so I would love to see staff continue that line of analysis and thinking. I do agree that moving up the timeline to begin the implementation of the revised queue would be more preferred and so Mr. Fanshawe can you speak to why you're presenting the

[01:03:44] timeline you did and why not use the 2027 public bond vote I know you know and I think this is can this is the concept I don't think we're casting it is we must wait till 2029 I mean I would certainly say we need to go sooner we don't want people to forget what we've done it's going to inform going forward and hopefully it incorporates some of the other ideas that we've that I put forward as we do this because i think i think it should be imagined in a different way i mean

[01:04:24] because clearly the the full-blown renovation isn't we're not going to get there if we keep doing that so without knowing the outcome um well it's done i can't predict where it's going to take us but i think it's going to be not it's i don't think it's going to look like what it looks like now if i had to guess but that's purely speculation at this point if that makes sense

[01:04:51] Yeah, I mean, I'm intrigued. I'd love to, I mean, I see what you're saying now more clearly than I had earlier, that it's not going to, the work will not look like what we tend to have happening now. But what I'm not sure about is why wait that extra cycle on the bond, on the public vote. I hear you saying you're not opposed to it, but I'm just wondering.

[01:05:08] Well I'm the worst I'm the worst time estimator ever I have been asked multiple times about projects and projects completion and how long you think it'll take so I'm probably the last person to ask for a timeline estimate but I will I would tell you that you know if nothing else our planning piece should be starting earlier and Jessica have you got any any other thoughts on this I mean.

[01:05:36] so the timeline is based on all the current projects that are in this version of the queue to have money on these individual bonds by 2027 so if we space it out and what we're looking at currently that's why i say we would look at the 2029 bond for the next queue okay i understand more clearly and i understand that it will become even more clear as we move forward so we'll learn things along the process as we're developing the new queue and if there are any changes that we would need to make with respect to the CIP we would certainly bring that back to the board for consideration. Great. Two things I want to

[01:06:15] ask about. One are while schools are in construction the fees that might get passed on to schools and even our parent teacher associations and the second is about schools paying for capital improvements like playgrounds. So the first is about I have several schools in Hunter Mill where they're in construction and they want to do things like have a traditional annual in-school celebration, like Fox Mill Elementary does an amazing -- their Japanese immersion program.

[01:06:42] They have to rent the space from an adjacent school, because their facility cannot hold such an event. And there's been a few times now, that school, another school, where the school or either the PTA is paying that fee to the other school to host them.

[01:06:58] So I'm wondering -- and I appreciate regional staff has gotten involved -- so I'm wondering how that can be mitigated. The other thing, Chola mentioned, like Crossfield Elementary, so they're going through a renovation. They have the good fortune of being right next to a Fairfax County park and brokering, you know, use of fees for in-school date, you know, when the park can allow.

[01:07:19] But, you know, charging the school for use or the same thing, if the school was going to have a school-wide, you know, event, asking them to go to another school, either pay for the, the advice I got was pay for transportation of those students to a nearby elementary to use the facility.

[01:07:35] So just I wanted to raise that awareness and just being sure that while schools are in renovation, that they're not being asked, that parents aren't being asked to pay extra fees or building funds aren't being asked to use adjacent FCPS buildings during that time. I'll follow up with community use on that piece because there was a confused look on my face because I thought, well, why is this happening?

[01:07:57] So I'll follow up with that. And as we've identified in the CIP, there are operating funds that we currently carve out of operating funds to support some of this work. And so we can also take a look at how we might be able to use current funds to support some of these fees.

[01:08:15] When I think about fees for community use, oftentimes it's because we have custodians in those receiving buildings who need to be paid. But we should be able to find funds within our current structures to pay those individuals without charging schools who are under renovation.

[01:08:32] Right. And for like Fox Mill, there obviously isn't an event that a custodian at Fox Mill is doing for the Matsuri Festival. So I understand that someone has to pay the custodial staff at another school, but -- Exactly. So there are some opportunities for us to think about what that process looks like.

[01:08:48] But I will follow up with you after the meeting so that we can nail this down a little bit more so I can get the right questions for our community staff. Great. And the last thing is similarly about playgrounds. Mr. Fanshawe, I just sent you an email that I had put together from before you joined the team.

[01:09:07] But I would appreciate clarity, and I think the public would too, about the process for playground updates. I have one school, Aldrin Elementary, where the community has raised $50,000 for a new playground. That's amazing, but why are we asking the community to pay out of pocket for what should be part of our education?

[01:09:26] So I'd love to know how are we assessing the cost, how is it updated, and who else is supplementing this cost? So I'll have to read what you sent, and I'll have to get back with you on that one.

[01:09:45] Okay. Thank you. thank you and thank you staff there's a lot actually to reflect on here I guess I wanted to confirm the reasoning for the over the 30% plus over cost estimates for the projects are those for market reasons is that how we're understanding it yes yes okay I think in that case I would I would agree with my colleagues that perhaps halting pausing rethinking what prevents us from doing that I guess Why was that not necessarily your first intuition?

[01:10:23] Yeah, I was going to say, is it just us? In terms of first intuition, we have a directive from the board to fulfill the CIP. And so we don't make the decisions on stopping projects based on costs. We will work within our current structures to follow through.

[01:10:40] And so we don't have the ability to say, you know what, we're not going to, and I'll just, well, I won't use one because somebody will hear it and think that we're going to do something. But we're not going to fulfill our responsibilities for this particular renovation because we don't think it's the best time to do that.

[01:10:57] Yeah, no, and just to clarify, that 30% ends up being what in dollars? Even a ballpark. Yeah, I'd have to calculate it.

[01:11:17] I'd just be spitballing if I said anything. But that's a look back, 30%. That's not look ahead. And the look ahead is the more scary thing right now. There are numbers being discussed with some of our neighboring jurisdictions on pricing that I never thought I would see You know, I was doing school construction 20 years ago and the prices that we're seeing now and the escalation of prices It's just it's not something that anybody has planned for to this degree. So it's really I and I think I think if we do look at a pause

[01:11:57] I think we need to probably tap our experts who are on FPAC because some of them are well-connected into the industry. And I think that would be a good question to ask of them as to what do you think. And we may get an answer that confirms or contradicts what we might think is the right thing to do.

[01:12:17] So I would probably ask, I will ask them that question because this is, they're in the business and the industry every day where we are. but not at that level and is that something you're saying maybe you have a hunch that it could just continue increasing as opposed to being a matter of the times there's a there have been the trends that I've seen so if you remember 2008 2009 we had a recession a pullback and there was a dip

[01:12:50] but the trend continued upward we either we flattened it or maybe went down a little but not to the extent that we all thought. We were changing gears at that point in time wholesale because of some of the procurement techniques we'd used where contractors were telling us that steel is expensive, concrete is cheap, switch to concrete, and those were the kind of things that allowed us to keep moving forward.

[01:13:22] We don't have those type of contracts yet. I think that's a way to help us understand the market as we move forward, too. So I hope that makes sense. Absolutely. No, I think this is actually a critical point that's been identified.

[01:13:39] And perhaps after you have the chance to talk to FPAC and reflect a little bit more on it, I think our board probably wants to revisit that question before we make final decisions about how we move forward. So I'll leave that for our meeting managers to consider. And with that, not to say, obviously, that we're not going to do the work we want to do, right, But to think there's plenty of other work that's been slated that we could shift our focus to.

[01:14:03] I mean, specifically, you know, for me, I'm thinking a review of our spaces to look at where there are hubs of overcrowding elsewhere. I mean, I continue to be amazed that Glen Forest has more kids in trailers than it does in the actual building. We could have an entire school of trailers.

[01:14:21] It's just, it's absurd. And I know we made that slight adjustment last cycle, but still, you know, just inching at it. And I imagine if we were to put an equity lens on the whole thing, we would find other pockets of need that we can be creative about rethinking a county-wide plan, which brings me to our favorite topic, boundaries.

[01:14:44] Where have we landed? I know that there's a piece on the board's part. After the consultants came back and gave us some great feedback on our boundary policy, chair, vice chair, I really want to know where we're at. It's been, the can's been kicked for far too long.

[01:15:01] I mean, we started, this conversation was ongoing before we even got on the board, and we still haven't made progress on that policy. So I don't know, staff, if you have any updates on the boundary side of things to just consider. Otherwise, I don't know, maybe chair, vice chair, if you have thoughts on where that's at on the agenda. I've asked the past three chairs about

[01:15:18] this. Can you use your mics, please? We can't hear, but the mic's not on. And I would say that as staff, we wait for direction from the board. And so we provided some information with the last update from our boundary consultant. And then we've had some discussions around all of those

[01:15:56] potential solutions today. And so as we think about capacity, so we say boundary, but we've talking about capacity all day and so the way that we can address capacity is in a variety of ways option h is that boundary option and as you've heard dr reed say if we have pockets of schools that have capacity and pockets that are over capacity there is a logical way for us to figure out how to move those students we have several options available to us and again we are ready to Facilitate that conversation when the board is ready to have that conversation

[01:16:36] I appreciate that Marty and I guess the silence speaks for itself We have to revisit that go back to it to me The question is about fairness when we pick these projects to do they're all great projects They're always going to be important, but where are where is there more urgency that we're simply not hearing from you know For example miss tollen always very thoughtful about your work We have the Kent Gardens question to look at this year. I'm excited to support it But at the same time, I'm pulled to think, where else are there issues that are perhaps more urgent that we're not hearing about or working on because we don't have them as stolen to bring it to the table?

[01:17:13] That's, I think, where we can invest some of our energies if we decide not to move in the construction path this time around because of cost. We have other areas to reflect on that I think our system will be really well served in doing. So I'd support that kind of shift, and I'll take a go back.

[01:17:30] Thank you. - Ms. Seizmerheiser. - Thank you. And if I could just take a brief performance time to address Ms. Lamache's question since she sent to the chair and vice chair, that would be great.

[01:17:47] Ms. Lamache, I'm happy to have the conversation. I had not heard from you any time recently about wanting to add that to the agenda in a more urgent fashion. So I'm happy to take that back to chairs, but I hadn't heard from you any time recently about wanting to add that in a more urgent way to the agenda.

[01:18:02] We have quite a few, as people know, pending work session items. we'll take that back to chairs and talk to staff about what that looks like but i'd be happy to talk to you offline about the urgency um on that so i will go ahead and start my turn if that's okay uh thank you very much and i apologize for not being able to be there today in person many of my questions and thoughts have been shared by my colleagues and so i just wanted to bring up a couple um thoughts as we're talking about the renovation queue mr fanshawe and i'm wondering as we do this how are we sort of collaborating or working in tandem with our strategic planning

[01:18:39] process um as well as our um you know we're looking at our strategic also a special education enhancement plan right i think many of the things that we're doing to build those processes have a impact right on facilities and of course facilities doesn't impact vice versa one of my concerns for a long time has been our split feeders especially the impact of our programs on split feeders um you know where you have a student going to a school for a program where the school is not just outside their community but outside of their pyramid and then having to go back at a much later

[01:19:16] date to their pyramid um you know i'm also had a concern about um some of our special education program delivery when we have multiple grade levels in the same class in particular when we have you know first through sixth grade in the same class and i wonder what impact facilities has on that. So I guess the question I'm getting at is as we do this look at the renovation queue, I think there's great opportunity here to do that work thoughtfully and strategically alongside our strategic plan and the special education enhancement plan. So I just would love to hear your thoughts on how that might look or just your thoughts on that. Well, thank you. So,

[01:19:52] I mean, I will say that, you know, all of our work needs to be guided by our strategic plan. that's that's the north star that we are are following um as far as partnering as we develop the next queue um we work with all isd uh who else i mean i'm drawing a blank um dss the equity office sorry i drew a blank there for a minute it's okay you don't know all those acronyms i'm

[01:20:28] sorry yeah you don't know off your head it's okay Mr Fanshawe you have learned quite a bit in your time here so I'm very impressed so no and there there will be opportunities for us to work with our stakeholders on that uh and as Mr Fanshawe said the strategic plan will frame every the work for us moving forward uh and so as that process comes uh to fruition uh here in the spring we will certainly consider all that feedback as we work with stakeholders and use that as the umbrella uh for the direction uh for uh our work as it relates to the cip i just wanted to make sure

[01:21:05] that was looked at as part of especially our program placement in split theaters and just how we're delivering services right as we're looking at renovations and as you're looking at a queue um i think mr frisch's idea or thoughts around our challenges right for our supply chain challenges and inflation and cost challenges is very interesting i think we should explore what makes the most sense from a fiscal responsibility but also a maintaining our excellent buildings so i'd love to hear more from staff on that piece of it i also had a question when i looked at the analysis membership trends you know people often talk about

[01:21:40] the fall off during covid you know the fall off in our net migration when i look at slide 27 i see that during the school year 2020 2021 you know we had a fall off of almost 5 000 students but since then we've had a net um in migration of about 30 almost 3 800 students and so i just and it seems like the bigger impact on our um reduced enrollment seems to be the birth to kindergarten ratio and that would have a longer impact on enrollment so i'm kind of curious what your thoughts are on that and how that might impact our thoughts on the renovation queue going forward

[01:22:18] or perhaps it is really looking at our program placement where our students are and how we maximize that capacity. We'll have to review that and we can get back with you on it. Okay, that would be just because I think it's a short term right versus long term trend issue that we should look at when we're planning our renovation queue in our facilities. So I will, my time's up, I don't need to go back. Many of my other questions were already answered. So thank you for the time and for the hard work. And I would just add that it's really taking a look at a few more years of

[01:22:56] data. I know that Ms. Haruta talked about some stabilization that we've seen, but we would like to see a few more years so that we can establish those trends. We were having a brief conversation at the table about when we thought we might see some changes over time and Mr. Schuster had a perspective and Ms. Haruta had a perspective and so it really will take a little more data for us to identify at least what the kindergarten numbers might mean for us and what the impact might be for time perfect thank you so we are very fortunate today to have with us our um student representative

[01:23:34] to the school board um so miss tagby we would love to hear your comments thank you um i had kind of like a broad question um about well slide eight made me think about this actually where it mentions uh overcrowding and kind of like i guess the budgeting for it i guess um and i was wondering at any point has there ever been like a sit down where there was research into our split theater schools so like let's say what's a good example um is it sangster in west springfield right um

[01:24:10] and like i know the elementary school like i want to say like maybe like 95 percent end up going to that middle school in the area and five percent would go to a different one but they all end up at west springfield why don't we all just send it to like let's say one middle school so they all end up going to middle school together and eventually high school and let's say that other that other middle school was overcrowded is at any point is that ever like researched

[01:24:39] to like consider whether or not that would be saving us money so everything goes back to capacity and boundaries because we are looking at boundaries with that and

[01:24:56] I know that our boundary consultant did look at some of that, and when we brought an initial report back to the board with the Fairfax County boundary study, we looked at distance to school as one of those factors, and so there is some research to support resiliency of students, and there's some research to support the impacts of students not going to a particular school with their cohorts, and we can certainly bring some of that back to the board.

[01:25:26] But we've had those conversations in the past, and there is some research to support that. And as we continue to have conversations about capacity, conversations about boundaries, I think that it's important for us to bring that research to the fore. So I appreciate you sharing that with us and helping us kickstart that back on our brains.

[01:25:47] Thank you. Okay, with that, Ms. Bukarski and I will take our turns. I am just going to dive in here. I have advocated since 2020 for that new renovation queue, so I've got a couple questions on the timing with that.

[01:26:07] But I'm very excited to hear, Mr. Fanshawe, your talk about a little bit of a different way to do business with the capital asset renewal plan. I really think this might help us to avoid situations like we do see in Drainsville, McLean in particular, where we've got a high school and an elementary school that were renovated you know 20 some years ago and have you know a building capacity issue in those buildings over the last 12 years and so with the over capacity on top of everything else in those buildings um the overcast and the age um

[01:26:47] you know we've got some crumbling infrastructure that needs to be taken care of um as far as do we you know how do we know that this is an issue there and versus some other parts of the county if you just look into the cip you know kent gardens for example let me focus on that has been listed as a school to watch for the last three years because of the capacity numbers that that school has been dealing with it's been either the most overcrowded or the second overcrowded you know elementary school in fairfax county for years so it's time for us to really

[01:27:22] take a look at it. Over the last couple years, facilities staff, ISD, etc., we've been having many, many conversations about what to do. It's very complicated. It is a, you know, program issue. It's a development issue. There's a French Immersion Program. There's Local Level 4. There's increased development in the surrounding communities to lead us to where we are today. I will look for a, you know, adding into this CIP, you know, moving Kent Gardens from the list that's been on, you know, we need to watch this to this is

[01:27:58] acute and we need to move forward and get a full analysis and scoping. We did some preliminary work this fall and met with the community with some data and information and I thank my colleagues for all of the work on that. But it is time to take a deep dive and really look at all of this information, as complicated as it is, and go back to the community with some solutions that can be implemented in the relatively near future, both within the CIP and then on the facilities and maintenance site as well with what we're seeing in those facilities.

[01:28:37] Happy to provide photos if anybody needs photos about how horrible some of these things are. So anyway, colleagues, I sent you a huge email with lots of information, data, information backing all of this up. we'll be looking to add, you know, directive to staff for a complete scoping and analysis and moving forward with community engagement for Kent Gardens.

[01:29:01] And that's my time, but I've got lots of other questions we'll talk about later. All right, thank you. Well, you know what I'm going to say, but I'm going to save that for a minute. And first I'm going to start with just saying that I fully support moving through this current

[01:29:21] renovation queue. Now, whether that's a pause and, you know, we go to FPAC, we actually looked into this, do some analysis. If it would be prudent to take a short pause before we start, I am open to that idea, especially if there are fiscal benefits to it, only if there are fiscal benefits to it, of course, but I, we've made a commitment to go through the renovation queue, so I am very much in support of doing that. Thank you for the membership analysis. We've heard a lot about our membership in the last

[01:29:59] couple of years, and I think being able to do this and putting out the data to the public is important because people we know make their own assumptions and have their own analysis. So having all that out there is crucial. So with that, for a decade, the Western high schools have been overcrowded. We've been talking about it. They've been on the watch list. We've had a decade to do something about it. Two bonds. Nothing has moved. It has not been an area of, you know, fire under

[01:30:38] us to actually do something to relieve that. We've done many other things in the meantime in other districts. It is very hard for me to go back to my community and tell them how I continue to vote for a CIP where that is not top of mind, where solutions are not brought forth to us.

[01:31:01] You know, COVID, all I understand, people understand, it's hard to find land, but at some point it's, no, this just hasn't been a priority for the school system. So with that, I'd like to hear why we have not finished the follow-on, why that has not been completed, what the timeline is for that to be completed, and what your thoughts are around relieving the overcrowding in those Western high schools.

[01:31:31] And I know we're gonna add those seats to Centerville, but a 3,000 person school is not, and I cannot imagine that's a best practice. It certainly does not seem to be a manageable number for staff and there has to be something different.

[01:31:51] so i'll let you speak to that i know we talked a lot in our two by two about this thanks and and we did um and one of the uh suggestions that i have um was really to look at the strategic facilities review and look at how we're using properties and how we might use properties differently across the or across the the the county naturally we'd be focusing on the West for properties that we have out there and come up with different

[01:32:29] strategies for what we might do so and I don't have a timeline for that because really that's been an idea that's been baked recently but it's it clearly has to occur because the need and to inform our process going forward we need to do that relatively soon because it has to be in place I think for the next CIP cycle so that we can start to make decisions based on what we have and if we need to change the use of a property that doesn't happen overnight and it may

[01:33:08] there may be second and third order effects of doing something differently so that's a piece on that as far as the the overcrowding situation in the Western high schools we did have some conversations with you all at our two by two and I think we did propose a possible more immediate solution and I think that's that you know that that's something that we'd certainly do it

[01:33:43] because it's what we do so thank you i don't have a lot of time so i will just put a bookmark on that and come back to it uh but uh the follow-on we can you just tell me so a brokerage firm has been attained okay when did that happen you know um after i got here yes so since i've arrived so probably in the last month or two yeah i think it was the last month or so sorry you know this

[01:34:20] follow-on was last what January February when we vote on this so that's that I think speaks to the comments that I've made here but thank you for being here and that finally do we have a timeline with them of what they're thinking any preliminary feedback or we are scheduled to get an update from them this month right so there may be some things to share great I would like to know what that is thank you and I'll I think my time's up thank you all right Let's go to go back. There were only a couple of people who said they wanted to go back, but if you want to, please go ahead and put your placards back up.

[01:34:59] Start with Dr. Anderson. I've got a bunch of questions left, and I'm trying to jam them all in here, so bear with me. I think this speaks to the work that you are doing to get a cue going that has objective criteria that we can all follow, that is not dependent on the initiative of school board members.

[01:35:19] that is beyond frustrating because the same conversation that I'm hearing here I can make a case for any one of my schools the largest middle school Stella just talked about a 3,000 person high school we've got almost 2,000 well we've got an over 2,000 person middle school where does it show up in the queue that shouldn't have to be my responsibility to add it to the queue that that's unfair that this burden is being placed upon us and what I heard earlier with somebody's question which is the board hasn't raised it as a point of consideration we're just pretty much lay people we're really hoping that the staff will provide recommendations for the

[01:35:56] board to respond to in the same way that we get from our legal counsel you know something happens john foster says these are the recommendations we mull it over we make changes and we respond to it but we don't come up with them but yet in this process we do the other piece that i'm sitting here just literally trying not to have my hair be lit on fire is i have the justice um pyramid almost all of those elementary schools are overcrowded where's the conversation about a new school in that area where's the conversation am i the only one responsible to raise it because

[01:36:32] if i don't it doesn't come up to this conversation and i don't want to hold that responsibility it shouldn't be my responsibility to hold it shouldn't be any of our responsibility to hold

[01:36:42] So I want to hear about it. What are we going to do about Glasgow? Crowded. Same problem that we have at the Western High School. What are we going to do about the area in which Glen Forest and Bailey's? Crowded schools. Where's the additional elementary school at that site? Who's evaluating this? You know, we have this follow on motion reviewing space. Are we having the conversation about Cub Run? That's a site that we own outright already. It's just leased. So is that going to be part of this consideration for this group? So I'm going to take a pause there and then my time is up.

[01:37:13] jesus wow nice job dr anderson would anybody like to respond or i think um maybe mr smith yes no yeah and so and i and i saw your reaction earlier when i made the comment about the board having discussions about the boundary process and so uh as i shared those comments i wasn't intimating that individual board members need to bring those issues to us. I think that we

[01:37:48] currently have a boundary policy in place that we have used to develop all the work that we've brought forward to the board and then for our members who were on previous boards remember that we've engaged a consultant to bring forward some recommendations about boundary policy moving forward and then we've had a pause on boundary policy and the previous superintendent placed a moratorium on boundary adjustments and so as we look at the workforce staff moving forward when I say that we are looking for our conversation from the

[01:38:26] board it's not to put individual board members or the board on notice other than the fact that if we're good with our current boundary policy then we certainly can make some recommendations for staff or for the board to consider moving forward and if there are further discussions to be had about that boundary policy we are certainly open to hearing what that discussion might be and so i i certainly didn't want you to feel that we were that that i was saying that individual board members need to bring that work to us so that we

[01:38:58] can then act upon uh issues that are having an impact on our students that's i appreciate it but But that's not the crux of my question. Does anybody else have anything to add?

[01:39:15] Yeah, go ahead, Dr. Anderson. Okay. How is it that I get the schools that I've just discussed on the table for the conversation? How do I get Glasgow in the conversation?

[01:39:32] How do I get the Justice Pyramid schools for that area to be considered for another school because most of the elementary schools are overcrowded? Glenn Forrest has been the largest elementary school for years with, as Abra just shared, most of the kids were outdoors in the portables.

[01:39:49] And it wasn't until we came here to have this conversation that we made the slight adjustment, which is literally throwing a pebble in the ocean. So how do I get that elevated? Do I need follow-on motions? Do I need any of these things? If so, I'm going to start typing them right now.

[01:40:12] I think they've been, I think I've heard clearly what you've said this afternoon, and I think I need to better understand our process for the queue. However, we do that. We have 200 sites, and how do we identify the most, where we start in a rank order?

[01:40:30] So let me get some more information on that, Dr. Anderson, and get back to you on that process. I almost feel like there are several processes happening at the same time, and that makes it a little confusing to me, I kind of think I understand where we're, which group is working on it, but then there's another group, right? So I think I probably need a visual of all the groups working on this. And it almost feels a little like the strategic planning conversation where we have all these arrows of good work, but they're not aligned. So there are times that likely what we're seeing are competing agendas and not, you know, moving forward. So let's, let's give the team a chance to take a look

[01:41:10] that and see who the siloed groups are that are working on it what their charges are it's almost like i'll just leave it there i think we need to take a look at who all is informing this and everyone can't inform it or no one is right we just are stuck and and thank you for that i'm so sorry for taking the additional time but i'm frustrated because i've had these individual conversations for years now and yet i'm like where is it thank you i don't want people to get mad at me here, show favoritism. Mr. Fraschen. I think the elephant in the room when it comes to

[01:41:46] boundaries is that if staff were to come to the board and say we'd like to change boundaries here, here, and here, they probably worry that heads on the board would explode at the mere reference of one of their schools and a boundary that should be considered. And so what we're left with is a process that's board driven like dr anderson has been describing and um you know for any future school board members i will say the biggest challenge of being a school board member has been getting people to talk to me like i'm not a school board member um and like uh they don't have to

[01:42:24] please me with their answer um so um speaking of pleasing me with their answer um let's talk about the the um board direction regarding the jet recommendations um we just had a kind of board recommendations they're no longer jet recommendations they're not recommendations at all they're board directives right whatever i said um board and now i've lost a minute thank you um uh so board direction around our jet recommendations we just a few minutes ago we're talking about how staff didn't have the ability to not do something simply because it wasn't prudent in the moment and yet

[01:43:04] the 2021 bond funded projects have been designed not to be net zero even though board direction was to make them net zero and the bond listed them as being net zero projects how does that happen

[01:43:25] i can tell you what i know since i've been here um and how how we got to where projects are i i don't know so so that doesn't i mean that sorry it i want that that's good that's that's an honest answer well and you know in four and a half five months I mean I've done what I can do and I think it's positioning us to go forward I think it's having the conversation with you all aware what the cost drivers would be to go full net

[01:44:00] zero I'm not an expert on it and you know I'm told it's five to six million dollars extra per facility I think it's part of that conversation as we look at trade-offs going forward as well I think renovation projects are harder to do I think where we do new construction and be should be easier to do and I think it is something we should look at more closely on our new construction sites if that makes sense I would also like to follow mr. Fanshawe's response but I

[01:44:35] think we have a new appreciation for that directive and are going to go back can revisit what we're doing without music to my ears because I think the community is expecting it as well and you know part of thinking this through when you come back to us and tell us it's going to be this much money the the lost money of savings over the life cycle of that school is something that we need to be told about as well so if we're going to spend six million dollars if we're not going to spend the x number of dollars to bring a school to net zero how much

[01:45:15] in energy expenses are we going to incur as a result of not making that investment. So I'll leave it there because I'm out of time. And I would always say that life cycle cost is absolutely essential when you're looking at projects like this. First cost is one thing.

[01:45:30] Life cycle is really when you're making this kind of decision, it has to be considered. Well, and save the planet, yes, but save the money and put it back in our classrooms, even better. Ms. Cohen.

[01:45:50] Thank you. I'm glad to follow that. I think some of the frustration too is that some of these things come to light as a board just by happenstance. I think the net zero conversation with Mr. Frisch and I happened because I went to a Willow Springs Renovation Committee meeting and found out that we were not doing that renovation compliant with net zero. And the person who was there just matter fact we said well we can't it's it's too much money it'd be way over cost um and as carl said

[01:46:27] that's that's a reality but when it when it doesn't come back and we're out in the community talking about the jet goals and adopting them and um how excited we are about at least having net zero ready buildings then if that's not what's actually happening you know it doesn't feel i think very much like that two-way communication that that we expect um and i think just following on what dr anderson said i i really do feel and share that same frustration that i think the the

[01:47:01] idea people did not elect us to be facilities planners because that isn't any of our expertise they hired us to be you know oversight of this system and the understanding is that you all are consistently bringing your best recommendations even when they're painful and then we're the ones who have to figure out how that sausage is made to do the right thing by our students and so i think that's some of the frustration that you're hearing around the table today is the idea that we know that overcrowded schools are not best for our students they're not best for

[01:47:39] our staff that we've not created the best learning environments possible and to dr anderson's point we certainly haven't done it in an equitable manner and so i think we are hungry to see from you all here is what the cip should look like not what you think we think it should look like so i appreciate what um what dr reed said about taking a second look here but i think that's some of the frustration that you're that you're hearing thank you thanks no i appreciate your comments and um

[01:48:19] You know, I see things running differently than they have. I think I've tried to inject some of my opinions as we move forward and try to suggest improvements.

[01:48:35] And I'll continue to do that as long as I'm here, because I think that's the only way to move us forward. And I would like a system that is more automatic. And that's hard to get to a fully automatic system, but one that presents options in a way that it's clear to see what the selected path should be.

[01:49:04] So, you know, that's where I am, and that's what I'm going to keep trying to do. And I think that there are opportunities for improved communication. So when we think about communication not only within the office and the department, but communication with the board as to where we are, I think that communication up front on the front end, we're very good on this side of the table of saying, yep, we can do that, sure.

[01:49:31] And the board would like this, yep, no problem, we can do that. And then we cluster and say, oh, we said we were going to do that, now how are we going to do that? So I think that as we are sharing information with the board, that we can do a better job of level setting expectations so that as you're working with your communities, you're not out talking about the things that we've said that we can do and staking your reputations on those things that we've said we can do when we then think about that in a different way.

[01:50:01] And so there are some opportunities on our end for that communication up front and communication during and after, during processes and then upon follow-up as well. Thank you. Ms. McLaughlin.

[01:50:20] I just want to restate this because pretty much every board member has somehow alluded to this, including our student. There has long been a lack of operational analysis being done on our 200 buildings from the programs that are getting placed in there and drawing extra students in.

[01:50:42] So boundaries are not the only problem. It's what programs we put in. But the history here for this current board is the prior board asked for a boundary looking at the national best practices.

[01:50:59] Frankly, the consultant's report was a disappointment for me. Anyone can go look up the video, and I complained about it. I felt like we got very little proposed changes to it. Boundaries are complicated.

[01:51:14] I will also be clear that I have been consistent throughout my tenure. neighborhood schools, reducing buses and emissions, and sending kids all over the county. You know, the more we can keep children in their neighborhoods, that I think has the overall benefits. But again, it's for the board to discuss. To Ms. O'Mish's concern, we did ask that the equity office was going to look at the boundary policy, and that was going to be part of the bigger picture. We've had transition and change from our equity officer. We have an interim now.

[01:51:50] Then we had a new superintendent. I mean, this board between COVID for two years and a new superintendent search and a lot of change at central office. But Dr. Reed, I guess I'll put it in 16 seconds. Again, we are expecting central office to be the operational experts. I hope I do not hear ever that it's the board didn't drive this the board didn't do that the operations brings us their independent expert recommendations we vet it we engage with the community on it and you know what that's where the final decision making happens but I feel like a little bit too

[01:52:28] much today has been well if the board didn't do this or didn't do that and in the end um you know I I have great confidence in your leadership that we will get this CIP continuing to get stronger but there's some work to do thank you gave you a lot of time i did i promise no no you finished a lot of thoughts actually i'm just gonna say many thoughts all right um miss omesh followed by

[01:53:02] miss sizemore heiser thank you i thought we were going through everyone um yeah i agree about neighborhood schools and we didn't get to talk to today about really that program aspect of the facility use that drives how things are planned for, so that's a whole other bucket.

[01:53:23] But I agree, less moving students around for programs and keeping them close to home and partnering with our business partners and community colleges and all these amazing partnerships we have more equitably, I think is really, I would love to do more with that. So about early childhood, this is my first job as an early childhood policy.

[01:53:43] It's a love of mine. We need it. I want to support Ms. General Koufax what has been on the table for a while, but Dr. Reed, you also did share with the board your internal thinking about planning to reach capacity. And I'm wondering how that proposal fits into there, especially in light of what we've been discussing today about how do we make decisions about where we place programs.

[01:54:04] So I think that the data point that sticks out to me is that only 37% of our income eligible pre-K students are being served right now in Fairfax County. And that means that 63% of our income eligible, which our youngest learners, really in the most challenging circumstances economically, are not being served.

[01:54:29] So we actually took a look in Cabinet. If we started this year and went to 2030 and wanted to get to 100% of just our low-income students being served, it would be 40 classrooms a year. We have a proposal on the table, like the white paper was for less than 40 in a given year, but we're going to have to start doing something.

[01:54:52] Doing nothing and wringing our hands is not meeting the needs of our youngest learners, and as Ms. Darnak-Kovac said, it's harder to close gaps the older our children get. We're exponentially speedier in our ability to do that the younger our children are, and the more confident they are, the less supports they need.

[01:55:14] I mean, there's also a financial and economic interest in making sure our youngest children are ready when they start school. I think the proposal from Mr. Kovacs is a piece of that March to 2030. And so I see it aligned with the work that I think we've all been describing.

[01:55:35] And the funding for that, does that need to come from the CIP or that's going to come from elsewhere? It sounded like there was another. work i think it's something we're going to need to talk with our county colleagues about and also our sip planning team about because having an early childhood sort of location allows us also to more efficiently provide specialists speech and language those types of ancillary services for younger children all in one place there's an economy of scale

[01:56:10] while we also recognize we can grab two rooms here three rooms there across our entire division the ability to bring together support services are going to be more challenging both from a human capital standpoint and also an economic standpoint so pros and cons but i think that it's an important piece of the strategy there's never like one thing that's gonna like woof we got it right it's going to be in multiple paths we're going to have to take to mitigate this concern and at some point it'd be fabulous to be able to offer um you know sort of

[01:56:47] um i'm probably talking too early about this but innovative elementary opportunities like if we were on a montessori three to eight year old or right like they're just different kinds of things you can do if we had developed space um so again also the heat map ms darinac kovacs was talking about in terms of the high concentration of students. It seems like a location that makes sense from that point as well to the neighborhood school conversation. Well I'm glad. Thank you.

[01:57:13] That's really helpful because when you do show the heat map you know when we talk about equity and how do things get the table well that's obviously very clear. So you know in this particular instance I could see supporting that. What I don't want to do is start doing the piecemeal like has been challenged today and so um I mean gosh I'd love to see more early childhood so it could be really exciting so let's do it thank you all right i just want to remind everyone that we are running about five minutes behind now um and we were already scheduled to end at 4 30 today so just

[01:57:46] keep that in mind miss sizemore hyzer no i'm sorry miss sizemore hyzer wait wait i'm miss omesh it's a good turn but she wants it back now oh it's fine i'm kidding i know okay all right two Two things. One, I don't want to lose the thread on this. Dr. Anderson, Megan, kind of built a little bit.

[01:58:09] It looks like, all right, we have the consultant recommendations. You know, staff are saying it's up to the board. Board is saying we're waiting for staff. So I kind of want to see, can we get, it sounds like people are ready for a recommendation, like response, right? So staff would normally respond, present something and saying, okay, so we're going to adopt Dr. King or whoever.

[01:58:30] Is that actually in the equity shop? Where is that right now? in terms of the previous boundary study the consultants recommendations to the policy right correct yeah there there were recommendations I'd have to follow up with Dr. King to see what her team may or may not be doing with those recommendations at this point

[01:58:57] and I'm not putting her on the spot but there's there's that piece of it um and and then I I would also quite frankly want to go back to some of those recommendations I didn't come in today with all of those at the top of my head just to make sure that we're sharing the most up-to-date information with the board regarding those recommendations yeah I mean it seems if there's a kind of I trust that miss Sizemore hyzer will follow up from here you know in trying to find where the missing pieces and perhaps we can start with having them having staff take a look and provide

[01:59:35] recommendations if it seems like that's where we're asking for if I'm hearing people correctly the other pieces I don't want to lose the possibility of a countywide boundary study also I know that's been floating around it was discussed at the joint CIP committee the board supervisors decided not to adopt it as a joint priority but that perhaps could be a next step in that work just so that we keep the ball rolling I wanted to learn a little bit yeah go ahead Marty clarify are you saying joint see a joint CIP or a joint boundary study no no sorry so a countywide boundary study was a point of conversation

[02:00:10] in the joint CIP committee yeah so I wanted to bring that back for our consideration as we look at all the locations and overpopulation overcrowding etc etc I had questions about the new queue development or what are some of the factors what's the you know if you can flesh out a little bit more on how we're thinking about equity in that process I mean that's that's part of what we want to get at as we develop the criteria I mean there's a very definite objective set of criteria, which is condition of the facility, its components, et cetera, et cetera.

[02:00:47] It's the other pieces that we want to try to draw out as we have these discussions as to what else needs to be considered. Okay. And so that's going to come back or how? Well, that'll be as we have the two by twos to talk about that. That's how we're going to have that come out and then how it's all weighted to get to, so we can end up coming up with a cue at the end.

[02:01:15] Okay, so just to be clear on, I guess you have like a third phase here. That's going to, your goal is to have that done before the February vote? No, that's future work. Yeah, go ahead. So we'll be engaged in that first phase to get feedback on what the criteria should look like. So you're asking the question of what are the criteria?

[02:01:33] And we'll be working with the consultant and working with you as a board and working with our stakeholders to identify what criteria we should be considering. As we then move into that next phase, if these are the criteria, then let's go out and assess our buildings based on this criteria.

[02:01:49] And then after we assess our buildings, we would then create the queue. So we know that there are a basic set of criteria to look at, and then what else? So what else should we be considering as we think about what our buildings should look like in the future?

[02:02:05] And what we should be considering as it relates to renovations and all the work that's within the CIP? So that work is beginning, and you as a board will be important to give us some of that feedback and what you're looking for, and the rest of our stakeholders as well.

[02:02:23] Okay, and I would just modify the step after, perhaps, is my question, where it's how are we ensuring equity is a priority within the various components that we're developing and working with that consultant. And certainly working with Dr. King and her staff. So as we look at equity, it's not an add-on.

[02:02:40] It's part of our work. And so certainly having that lens on the work is important to us and would be fully included as part of our stakeholder engagement. Awesome. Because I do remember that being one of the three priorities our consultants came back with in best practices when doing this work.

[02:02:57] So great. Thank you. The last piece is just regarding Tammy's, you know, I know it's going to cost $500K to bring that preschool piece. I think it's a great first step towards March to 2030, as Dr. Reid pointed out. Where is that money planning to be taken from? And it leaves me thinking about previous conversations we even had about bussing to local level, to AAP centers. Dr. Reed, you know, I know staff had told us it's going to take two to three years to get to a place where we have local level fours everywhere. I was pushing for us to be a little more urgent on that. Can we perhaps speed that up to make up for some of the money that costs, I know, between 500K to a million in our bussing annual cost? That was a question

[02:03:35] I'd asked before. Yeah, yeah. So if I could hear a response to that. Yeah, yeah. I saw the time. If I'm hearing the question correctly and thinking about the recommendation or at least what Ms. Darenot-Kofak shared, that would come out of the cash flow.

[02:03:53] So it would come out of our current project cash flow. We would make some adjustments along the way so that we could identify that $500,000 for the design process for the Pinewood Lake School. Okay. And I don't know if Dr. Reed can address the other piece.

[02:04:12] Local level four. Oh, okay. The local level four I know that is something that is being worked on right now they're adding this is year three I think coming up for adding a resource teacher but I'm not entirely sure many schools we have left to be honest with you Marty do you know I'm thinking that it might be either 16 and 16 to 20 range but I have to that are still that are still that are still up yeah at a recent work session they said it's going to take two to three more years but I was pushing for us to speed that up so all right okay

[02:04:49] Ms. Seizmoorheiser, followed by Ms. Corbeth Sanders. - Thank you, and I will try to be quick and not ease up my whole two minutes. I appreciate the conversation really here around the boundary policy study and one of the things that's pending out there for us to follow up on.

[02:05:06] So I appreciate Ms. Mesh bringing that up and Ms. McLaughlin talking about it. And I also did want to lift up what Dr. Anderson said and Mr. Frisch and Ms. Bukarski. It is, I think as we're looking at our renovation queue and really even Chuck, as you're here, Mr. Fanshawe, looking how we do our facilities process and and looking at our boundary policy consultants recommendations i really do think we need to um on slide seven you mentioned about the school facilities planning beyond a five-year horizon i almost think we need to sort of subsume all of that and come back to us right to say here's what it looks like because i agree with dr anderson i

[02:05:42] don't think it should take a school board member saying well what about this school here what about this school here and as an at-large member i often feel like we're on the back burner because it's not our district and i do wonder how we can take all of these consultant recommendations the great thinking of your team and staff and dr reed as a new superintendent working with our equity team to come up with a process and a plan not just for the renovation queue but a process for how what the board input is what the board role is how we um maybe work in a different way moving forward so i just would love to kind of see what that looks like and i'm happy you know take mr missions your thoughts back to chairs about where we're on the boundary policy and check with

[02:06:21] our equity team and go from there but i'm just wondering if at this point where we're at it's instead of just the boundary policy it's part of the larger conversation around capacity and facilities planning so i'd love to hear some thoughts on what that might look like and how we might have those conversations as a board with our staff so i i thanks for your your comment and And I guess going back to the holistic study that I think we have to look at for our, I mean, we need a long-range facilities plan.

[02:06:55] And there's different components and pieces of it. And, you know, all the different options, again, that are available are what needs to be considered. The renovation queue, we'll look at the renovation piece.

[02:07:13] Our membership numbers should drive our capacity issues. I mean, those, and again, I'm not familiar enough with all of our processes, but I can see where we need to adjust certain things so they become more automatic, which is easier for people to follow, and that's where I would hope we can get to.

[02:07:38] But again, I think this is stepping off onto the next thing, which has to yield the next thing, And then we're trying to get to a long-range plan that has all the component pieces that feed into it to have a, you know, that then supports the strategic plan.

[02:08:00] And perhaps I'll put something in next steps or maybe, you know, talk to my colleagues about how do we maybe do a long-range facilities plan that can come back to us in the work session that subsumes the boundary policy, that subsumes all of these things and sort of the frustration you hear around the table.

[02:08:15] but I just wonder if this is a great moment in time, especially in Mr. Frisch's idea to pursue that. My time is up, I'll stop. Thank you. - Oh, thank you, Ms. Seismar Heiser. Ms. Corbett Sanders. - Yes, thank you. And I enjoyed hearing your remarks, Dr. Reed, about the pre-K situation because we do have a significant Delta and availability of pre-K spots in the Southern side of the county.

[02:08:45] shared with you a couple of studies on that when you first came on board one of the questions or one of the things I will urge you to do though is the county is also working on pre-k so we need to have a collaborative approach to the pre-k but the other piece is that there are a number of pre-k spots that are expected to go into the original Mount Vernon high school but as part of those pre-k spots there will also be a partnership with northern virginia community college to train

[02:09:20] pre-k teachers and so as you are working in this area i see heather over on the side she worked very closely with me when we were doing some of the original work on the original mount vernon high school plans and so i would just urge that we take that into account as well because it you know one fairfax means the county and the schools working together thank you uh miss keys gamara

[02:09:54] yes thank you and i um do appreciate all the comments we've had um trying to figure out how we approach topics that are so difficult so i would um propose that as we consider how to come have a county-wide approach to facilities and consider boundaries that we also include how the community in particular how the community and especially fpac can help to advise us

[02:10:27] they have long become experts focusing on these issues for quite some time and i would think that they might be able to provide some guidance i do agree with those and i'm sorry i have to step out that this is an operational issue right we cannot afford for this to simply become political which it often has and then we end up not making decisions that can cause some long-term harm so i'd like to hear your thoughts on how fpac might make your life easier and perhaps help the

[02:11:01] community understand uh when we hear when we include that community voice in the process of developing a county-wide policy thanks um and no i i absolutely agree that you know fpac is a unique uh resource um that that i um see absolutely see the value in using them uh and their expertise uh and i think the more input you can get um the better product you have so i think that's that's another way to

[02:11:39] leverage uh to find better solutions thank you i i just if if perhaps at some point we can get an idea of what that would look like i know we talked a little bit about that in CPDC but I think if the board can know what those proposals are and and I know we haven't finalized anything that might be helpful for the community to understand how we're moving forward and it's not just one particular board

[02:12:10] member trying to make a decision okay thank you thanks thank you that's Darin at Koufax thank you and thank you to my colleagues who are saying you're you'll be supportive of this if you still have questions on and why I say this I mean the situation with the Pinewood Lakes property and how that can be used for a pre-k site so I look forward to those of you who still have questions or concerns and thank you to first facilities team for giving us

[02:12:50] costs and ways to move forward one advantage or disadvantage of being on the board as long as I have been I've seen many of these things come and go AND JUST AT THE START OF THIS CURRENT BOARD'S TERM, WE DID DO A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT SAID WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO MOVE FORWARD.

[02:13:10] OF COURSE, CAPACITY WAS A NUMBER ONE ISSUE. BOUNDARIES WAS A SECOND ISSUE. I DO BELIEVE AT THE TIME WE WENT OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY AND THE COMMUNITY WASN'T AS RECEPTIVE TO THE BOUNDARY CHANGES ISSUE. I think Jessica and Marty both recall that, and that is kind of where the board left it at that time.

[02:13:32] And so while we can look to you for your expertise, in the end it is a board matter to move forward and check under your leadership, your time with us. I look forward to you, maybe, don't smile that way, I feel like.

[02:13:52] I feel perhaps, you know, you can confer with your team and see where things were historically. And this wasn't many, many years ago. This was probably two years ago. So where we left off, that's the way I described it, the way I recall it.

[02:14:09] And what we might need to do forward to dust that off and move forward or get a new consultant and new idea. But I think it has to be a combination of your leadership, coming back to the board, and going out to the community to make sure the community is comfortable with whatever we come up with.

[02:14:30] Thanks for that. And I do feel like every day is another opportunity to learn something else that I didn't know. Rich in opportunities we are. Yes, just a couple of additional comments.

[02:14:47] Through my work on Skipped, I'm acutely aware of the need for pre-K in the county. so absolutely support taking a look at that and I just a little preview we'll be having some discussions on that with our upcoming budget as well and and if it's you know our strategic plans conversations to date there have been a lot of conversations that have gone on around pre-k so I think it's important for us as we move forward with capital planning as we move forward with our budgeting as we move forward with the strategic plan I think Ms. Rogers

[02:15:24] Heizer did a pretty good job of saying all these things need to be tied in together and we need to be looking at all of this holistically, whether it is making big decisions like slowing things down because of the economic situation, we need to look at it holistically.

[02:15:43] One of the things that did not come up today in conversation is the pockets of huge development that we have in Fairfax County, Tyson's, Route 28, Route 1 Corridor, and the potential capacity impacts that they have in neighboring high schools.

[02:16:01] I also know I advocated a long time for additional staffing in the planning office to be able to take a closer look at all this, so we do have two, I think, people that started this year. I'm hoping, you know, we've talked about a lot of things that those two people can do, But I'm really hoping that as part of this overall big picture planning, taking into consideration those development areas and the impact of schools is going to be something that they'll be working on.

[02:16:28] I also very much support being more creative and collaborative with our county people around co-location and co-use of facilities. I know the park authority is interested in having those conversations as just one county agency that we can look to so we have lots of people that we need to be talking to about that as well um I guess that's my time thank you um we are behind my 25 minutes my only parting thoughts and we'll talk offline and I'm

[02:17:04] going to talk with my colleagues about what's next the reason I have continued to harp on the Western High School beyond the obvious documented from our professionals that those schools are all overcrowded the building that is going on on Route 28 I mean we were foreseeing you know these things and what they're gonna bring is the fact that we made a commitment to taxpayers we went out not once but twice and asked them for money and they very very general generously gave it to us with a commitment that we would utilize it for what we had earmarked in which we have not done for a decade so I'm gonna stop

[02:17:39] it there but i just you know um anyway with that i think five minute break and then we will um have our audit and thank you all right with a sufficient number of colleagues to reach quorum in the room we will begin uh this is the work session on the oag annual report we're joined by esther co our

[02:18:14] auditor general and danielle moore our deputy auditor general and they're going to take about 20 minutes to walk through the report and we will pick up with traditional board member comments and questions after that. Great so good afternoon everyone and it is my honor today to present the fiscal year 22 Office of Auditor General any report so we would like to do a short highlights from the report as Carl mentioned in 20 minutes or so and then we will leave the

[02:18:51] majority of the time to converse with the school board about any questions or comments. So this annual report summarized our work from the past fiscal year and also look forward to our plan for the current year which is fiscal year 23. Before we get into the details I would like to first give you know say a few appreciations. First off of course to the school board you all to create and maintain this independent function which to us is the key to ensure successful internal audits to take place and then so that we can have like looked at our

[02:19:30] existing system with separate pairs of eyes with our professional lens to ensure the system work as in as it is intended to be and secondly I would also like to thank our last year audit committee members which this audit report or any report is focused on, chaired by Tammy and then with Elaine and Karen Keyes-Kamara and then also Reshna and our two citizens members, Mr. Dan Wacko and Mr. John Shames have provided the industry experts throughout all the monthly audit committees so that we can get through all

[02:20:09] the reports and solicit your feedback. So a great thank you. And I also want to thank the FCPS administration regions and schools who have supported us along the way so that we can complete the audits with independent lens but through a collaborative manner. It is not easy to be audited but we have been receiving overwhelming support and trust from our leadership team that they may say hey Esther Danelle take a look at our process which you may be able to find you know improvements on. So to me this is a great story to tell because we

[02:20:45] We really want to be proactive and be able to resolve problems before they become ones. And last but not least, I'm grateful for the Auditor General team members, and Danelle, Joni, Monia, Colette, Luke, Brittany, Heidi, and Bruce.

[02:21:01] So I mentioned all the team members, so you can count. We are not a huge team, but I think we have accomplished big things. So it seems like that I'm at a Grammy award ceremony. So I will stop doing that and get to the contents of what we are going to debrief today.

[02:21:19] But it is indeed, it is a big team effort so that the Office of Auditor General model is functioning as what it is intended to be. So as for today's presentation, we will cover mainly the four pillars of work for the office and I will call ourselves as OAG going forward, which means the Office of Auditor General.

[02:21:40] And the four pillars of work are risk assessment. Risk assessment means how do we determine the audit to look at, that the second pillar is the internal audit, which is our bread and butter for what we do. The third area is the fraud, waste and abuse hotline.

[02:21:58] And the last one is the education and outreach. So OAG has completed all the fiscal year 22 school board approved engagements, including five performance audits, one non-audit service. So I think this is good clock. Yes, this is good. So we completed five performance audits, one non-audit service, which is the one that related to the special education review, where my office served as a project liaison. And

[02:22:30] we also completed 12 business process audits. And we also received and evaluated 48 cases through our fraud, waste, and abuse hotline and channel. We also encourage our staff members and community members to really see something and say something.

[02:22:51] And to provide above and beyond services, our office continues to host our accredited trainings to our staff members. And we cover important audit risk technical training, such as procurement, begin with the end in mind, ethical intelligence training, etc.

[02:23:09] We also provide a regular technical training to school-based administrators, so principals, assistant principals, directors of students' services and activities, they attended our training, as well as our finance staff as well, meaning our finance technicians and our administrative assistants.

[02:23:29] This training will attend by almost 1,000 FCPS staff and state holders. And I know that this number is not like a huge percentage, consider we have 20,000 employees, but I really think it's a good start. And we continue to publish our newsletter, which we call as the Audit Bus.

[02:23:48] And as of the day of the report, we have 1,700 subscribers. And now we checked again, we have over 2,100 subscribers. And I'm sure you all have helped us to spread the word and people sign up to receive the news from our office.

[02:24:03] And I would also like to highlight on page 4 and page 5, which is where we are right now, that covers some of the indicators, meaning where we are benchmarking our numbers with some of the other school districts.

[02:24:19] So if we can just go down a little bit, Clark, to the right, that's the table. So, where it measures kind of how the efficiency of the OAG work is compared with the other school districts, these are all self-disclosed numbers from the other school districts.

[02:24:38] So you can see that our numbers are in line or a little bit more efficient, I would like to say, compared to other school districts in how we are using our resources. And with the goal that our office would like to be a role model, right, in leading of the

[02:24:54] internal audit work in the school districts amongst the nations. So with that, I also want to highlight that at the bottom, or actually if we can go to page five, meaning the next page. So here is where after each of the audit, we will solicit feedback from our audit clients, meaning if we just audited community use area, we will send out a survey to them to really ensure what we do has been able to provide added services to them. And as you can see, we have set up a very high bar for us and

[02:25:31] so far we have received, you know, a hundred percent of yes to all these questions. These are all yes or no questions to make sure whether we have proposed feasible audit recommendations, does the audit team show, you know, understanding of the concerns that the auditees are going through. So I'm very proud to present that to you all. And then going down a little bit more on page five is the -- some of the other OAG accomplishments that we highlight here that we have further enhanced our risk assessment process, meaning we have been engaging with

[02:26:08] more state holders, and for this fiscal year coming up, we are not only engaging with the top managers, meaning the leadership teams, we also engage with some of the coordinators and directors, the middle managers, who really know, kind of like, and have the insights of what are the things that that would need improvement upon.

[02:26:30] So that's some of the improvement that we have made, and we have provided quite a lot of presentation last year, like 20 presentations to almost 1,000 stakeholders, like I mentioned before. And then we also make sure our team members met our professional requirements, as it is required by the Generally Accepted Auditing Standard. So with that, I just want to mention this before I hand the time over to Danelle to highlight some of the audits that we completed last year. That this report has been discussed with

[02:27:07] the Audit Committee members in our December meeting and the committee appreciated content highlighted in the report. A question that we received and which I would like to brief the full school board here from an audit committee member is about how we could further encourage the use of the fraud, waste and abuse channels by our employees and also making sure that our community members are aware of these channels that they can use. So after that meeting we met immediately with the Office of Communication and Community Relations, OCCR,

[02:27:45] to really think about ways to further making sure our community members are aware of these tools, that we have done a couple of things already, including to move our call-out bar about the various channels on our web page to the top, so making sure that people can see that very easily.

[02:28:04] And we also included the translation bar, making sure that they are on every single page of the oag website to ensure inclusiveness of our community members and we will also share an awareness paragraph in the upcoming employee news fcps this week and the employee hub and then also the audibus to highlight what is available for our staff members and community to use and then it will be done repeatedly throughout the year so that it can keep at front and center we will also Also making sure that we include the promotion of the channels in our trainings provided

[02:28:43] to school-based administrators and administration staff. So with that, looking forward, we are marching on with our fiscal year 23 audit plan, and we will begin the FY24 risk assessment exercise very soon.

[02:28:59] So I will ask for meetings with you all again, and then to just making sure that your insights and what you think is important for the school system will be considered them and then to put forward our plan for next fiscal year.

[02:29:17] So with that, I would like to hand the time over to Danelle and she will go over the audits that we completed last year with you all. Thank you, Esther. As Esther mentioned, I will be going over the audit results, which is located on page 11 of the report, which provides a matrix of all of the performance audits that we completed We completed five performance audits and 12 business process audits.

[02:29:41] And as you can see, we provide the number of findings by risk rating, and the risk ratings are high, medium, and low. And a high risk rating means that the controls were in place, or controls were not in place, excuse me, or inadequate, or compliance with legislation was also inadequate.

[02:30:00] A medium risk rating means that controls are in place but not sufficiently complied with or compliance with the FCPS policies and regulations are inadequate, and a low risk rating means controls are in place but the level of compliance varies and there were no systemic issues noted.

[02:30:19] And as you can see, for the five performance audits that we conducted, the community use audit, the IT audit, the legal audit, the local school activity funds audit, and the continuous monitoring for the ESSER III funds, there were a total of 12 medium-risk findings noted and a total of four low-risk findings.

[02:30:39] There were no high-risk findings. As it relates to the local school activities fund audit and the continuous monitoring for ESSER, we noted a total of four observations, and observations are not findings. They did not meet the risk rating to be considered a finding.

[02:30:59] For our business process audits, we completed a total of 12 business process audits, and And these audits are conducted on an ad hoc basis when there is a change in principal or finance tech or administrative assistant. And also this year we have been getting a lot of requests from principals for us to come in and look at the finances and do a full business process audit.

[02:31:22] For the business process audit, we identified a total of 18 low risk findings, 11 moderate risk findings, and three high risk findings. And as you can see, the three high-risk findings are related to Justice and Bucknell Elementary.

[02:31:39] We went in and did a complete audit and found issues with the timeliness of the completion of the FMRs and the procurement card reconciliations. And once we identify these as high-risk findings, we immediately contacted financial services to provide the school with additional support and training so these items could be rectified.

[02:32:01] We also followed up on these items and noted that they were rectified. And in the instance where we have a moderate or high risk finding, we do get a response from the principal so we can follow up on, and when it is a high risk finding, we also get a response from the RAS to follow up on that as well.

[02:32:22] And as I'm speaking of follow up, we do conduct follow up on a quarterly basis and we report out to the audit committee on a quarterly basis for all the business process audits and performance audits. During FY22, we had 40 recommendations. I'm sorry, can you go down to the next page? I mean to page 15. I'm sorry, 15. At the beginning of FY22, we had a total of 40 recommendations from the prior year audits that remain outstanding. During the year, 29 additional

[02:32:55] recommendations were made, and a total of 45 recommendations were closed. And as of July 31st, 2022, which is what was the most recent reporting period at the time of this report was issued, there were 24 recommendations remaining from the current and prior years that related to the facilities maintenance audit, the hiring and onboarding audit, and the community use audit.

[02:33:19] So that's just the summary of the audit results for the FY22 audits. So with that, I would like to, yeah, if the chairs can help us. Thank you. We will go ahead and get started with Ms. Corbett Sanders.

[02:33:34] Thank you very much and I appreciate all of the work that you and your team do, Esther. It is always impressive. One of the things that I think would be helpful in the future is to have kind of a breakout between there are really three types of risks.

[02:33:53] There's the financial risk, there's the reputational risk, and there's safety and security risk. And those three types of risk analysis impact everything that you do.

[02:34:08] So it might be helpful in future reports if you could kind of address those three and where we're at in those. What do you think of that? So thank you, Karen. And I think that's a great suggestion, right? Thinking about the risk universe, there are so many that we have to address, right?

[02:34:28] And then to making sure that the school board is aware of them so that you all can make and inform the decisions. is one of the how do I say like it's a bigger work that we have to be engaged with in the business world I'm sure Karen that's why you mentioned is the enterprise risk management right so financial security operational legal reputational sorry I missed that one so it's a very holistic approach I mean that if it is something you know the school board would like to support to me

[02:35:05] by itself it's a new engagement because we want to do it right right then you have to devote the enough resources on it and it will involve a lot of the conversations with you all the conversation with the leaders of the school districts to making sure we capture and rate them accordingly so I think this is a great idea that that Danelle and I would definitely you know put it on our to-do list and then can solicit like a school board advice to consider to put it in our next year audit work plan thank you I would appreciate that because I do believe that that's part of the ISO standards I

[02:35:44] on some of those criteria so it would be interesting to have your feedback on sure next there I noted that or you noted that Bucknell Elementary had some findings what is the process that should work for a board member to be aware if there are concerns at a school in their magisterial district or in a school where their students attend because I was not aware of that nor was I aware of the findings at some of the other schools that were only in the low risk

[02:36:20] category. Thank you Kara this is a question that you know that I have been thinking about right that we definitely have keep the audit committee members you know that that we are debriefing all the reports but then how to ensure the relevant school board members is aware of the issues and I think that now we can do a better job in it so going forward we will I need to make sure like for all the relevant you know schools that are related for example to Karen district that she will be the first one to be aware of the challenges that we

[02:36:59] went through and then we can very happily you know to give you a debrief about that because sometimes I know that we have a lot of communication with you all we do send out a monthly you know email that summarized all the reports but sometimes there's a lot of information so if there's any way that my office can support your work and I'm totally for it and can summarize it for all the school board members to know but the at large school board members we have a lot of information from us well it would be I understand you inform the

[02:37:32] RASs about what's going on. And so Dr. Rhee, you and I have spoken about briefly about the need to standardize communications and the type of information that each of our RASs provides to both the magisterial members as well as the at-large members. And this would be something that I would suggest since the RASs have been updated on an individual issue that we utilize that and make sure that that's part of that standardized communication. Of course. I think we're very happy to do it. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. And once again, thank you for all that you all do.

[02:38:10] Ms. McLaughlin. Thank you. Ms. Coe, I'm not sure if there's maybe a little more clarity that needs to be had. With the Office of the Auditor General, I thought that when the school board in prior years made enhancements to the office.

[02:38:37] One of the things that we added was a position prior to your tenure where we would be doing that risk assessment every single year as part of building an audit plan. And so in terms of the risk universe and checking in with the board, I mean, it's been my expectation all along that the Office of the Auditor General would be doing that risk assessment, and that would include legal, reputational, financial risks.

[02:39:08] And, you know, so could you elaborate a little bit more on what you meant by that? Because I don't want to have to re-engage the board on what I thought was already sort of a settled practice. Yep, yep, yep. So sorry that I may not be explaining it clearly in my previous response.

[02:39:24] So definitely there are risks everywhere, right? Some of the risks can be audited. some of the risks may not be able to be audited, right? So what I'm trying to say is that throughout our risk assessment, which you correctly pointed out, which is the first pillar of the work that I stated, that we consider, you know, the risk that could, that audit could support to measure where we are, whether the management has implement relevant measures to remediate the risk but some of the risks may not be auditable

[02:40:04] like for example if i may mention hiring right like the talents in our region in our area is really limited we are under keen competition right with the other businesses in the northern virginia area. So those risks is beyond audits and in the other business that, for example, before I joined FCPS, I worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers. So where we provided consulting work to some of the major co-operations, Megan, that doing the enterprise risk management by itself is a huge

[02:40:40] engagement that you will need to involve different, you know, community members, like different state holder, sorry that's what I meant, that to ensure we got a holistic view on the risk. That may be what I interpreted Karen earlier question is, so I'm sorry if I don't interpret it correctly, but definitely under the OAG's risk assessment we consider the risk that could be measured or checked upon by audits.

[02:41:10] Does it make sense to you? A little bit. We often talk about that FCPS is over a $3 billion enterprise, it's one of the largest employers in Virginia, and so I'm just trying to understand, we had this in our prior work session earlier today, we really rely on central office from the superintendent to the leadership team and including your office to provide that expertise of how do we ensure that this is a highly successful public school system and that includes that enterprise you know risk

[02:41:49] management and so if that's not already our current practices as a division not just your office but as a division a to my colleagues that's concerning to me number two i want to know how we get there um so i'm i would just say that coming out of today's meeting you all i think that we do need to identify and this is where Ms. Coe with your expertise I would like you to frame out for us what needs to happen I think that Dr. Reed unfortunately she's not here so I'll just circle

[02:42:25] back with her on it but I do believe she's committed to continuing to improve and strengthen this division but look you guys I mean we we've barely been back from the winter break a week and And I think I had six items on my plate to talk with Dr. Reid about last Friday.

[02:42:44] I mean, three business days, and there were six items that needed attention. So we are talking about how can the board be more involved in improving the system, and yet we're constantly being dragged into operational challenges.

[02:43:02] And so I see the OAG as office that we need to continue to build out and strengthen. And, you know, Ms. Ko, that's the part that I would like for you to share with us because this is our sort of once a year review with you.

[02:43:19] Any thoughts to what I just said? Not a problem at all. We can make proposal, right? Like kind of is this the end goal that the school board would like to see about this enterprise risk management strategy? This is actually one of my passion, if I may mention that here.

[02:43:36] Because without that you don't really, just like the strategic goal, right? You need to understand what are the risks, what are the challenges that as a system that we go through with everything. And then in the past engagement that I worked on from my previous live is then you have to rank them.

[02:43:52] You have to rank them and then you have to consider your risk appetite, right? Meaning like there's no way that we only have limited resources that we can remediate all the risks. There's just no way. So somehow, some way, we need to prioritize and see which one that, on a school district level, is the most concerning that we have to address immediately.

[02:44:13] And I think with a ERM, we call it Enterprise Risk Management tool, then it can, again, help the school board to make a more informed decision for budget, resources, or for different types of challenges that come up.

[02:44:28] At the same time, though, we would require the commitment from management to do it. Because it will not be just Danelle and I sitting here in isolation. I have to have access to the management in order to get their thoughts as well.

[02:44:43] And then to be able to meet up with them regularly to assess where we are with the risk. Because once the risk is identified, then they are identified. Then we really need to have a follow-up process, right, to really assess where we are.

[02:45:00] So that will require significant management commitment as well. So I just want to echo that this is something that I would love to do, but at the same time, I would need to have the stateholder's commitment before, you know, we started that journey. Thank you. Dr. Anderson and then Ms. Tolan.

[02:45:23] Thank you. And I apologize if you already talked about this, but I noticed under the list of schools with audit findings, a couple of the schools that I represent that have high and medium risks. How is this communicated to the schools, and what is the timetable for the schools to remedy the situation, or has this already been done?

[02:45:45] So these particular ones listed here, we have already conducted the audit, let them know their results. Usually the process is when we're out at the school, we'll do an exit conference with the principal and the finance tech, so they'll already have their preliminary results once we leave the school.

[02:46:00] We'll give them a couple of days. We'll draft our report, send the report out to them. we'll actually give them a couple days to if there's some documentation missing they have like three to five business days to provide that documentation also we ask for them for the responses I mean the excuse me the findings that are moderate and high we ask them to provide the management response at that time once they do that we provide a copy of the report to the RAS and also to financial services so financial services can you know notify them if they need provide additional support to the schools for these particular audits we give about maybe about

[02:46:40] a three-month turnaround time and we will come back and do a follow-up to make sure that they've implemented everything they said they were going to implement in their management response and in their corrective action so this is the audit that you did at the schools at the end of the school year i'm just kind of pulling back on my experience as a school principal in june audit comes out we lay everything out is this that audit because it's january now right so no so are you if you're talking about the local school activity funds audit that's the one that we do this is at the year end page 11 page 11. so the schools that are listed under business process audits that's a

[02:47:16] separate audit that those are we look at both non-appropriated and appropriated funds for the business process audits give me a little bit more detail in terms of how is the business audit different from the year-end audit? Let me try. So the schools are always have auditor to visit, Dr. Riccardi. So one is about the year-end audit that you mentioned, right? When June comes or like in July or something like that, we will go and focus on the non-appropriated money. So that's the local school activity fund audit. So we may either visit them in person or we may do desk

[02:47:55] audits right because we only have like seven auditors I cannot visit all the 200 school at the same time however throughout the school year right meaning even though now is January school will also receive visit from us and this or this business process audit and this is what is a business process audit is a you can think about that as a full-blown audit right we looked at particularly on financial side we focus on not just uh local money we also focus on the appropriated money we also want to check hey let's just show me your procurement cards are

[02:48:33] they here are they in the right place are they the the right cards right because when in the past something we found is that we may found a card in the safe but they are an expired card so somehow some way the current cards are not there. So we go in in person to do that and we also check a couple of things as well like Danelle mentioned there's a process called the financial monthly report on appropriated money meaning that on a monthly basis the principal has to sit down with the finance technician or the administrative assistant of the elementary school to go

[02:49:12] over every single transaction, right, for appropriated money or for ESSA money. That's my understanding. So we do that on some of the school with this full-blown audit, which we call business process audits. How we select them, right, and I think Danelle explained it earlier, is maybe there is a change in principle, change in finance technician, or even better for me, I think, again, it's a good story to tell, is that the principal or region will reach out and say, hey, Danelle, Could you come out and visit school ABC because they are currently going through maybe some challenges

[02:49:47] or maybe they see some of the numbers are not adding up or something that needs to be addressed? Then they proactively reach out to us. So to me, that's even better than us sampling, right? Because sampling, you're trying to find a needle in the haystack, right?

[02:50:04] And then maybe not a needle at all. But when the principals or rats come to us, that really, they are trying to be very proactive, they are proactive, and then we are providing our support as audit to them. So that's how the process works.

[02:50:19] Does it make sense, Riccardo? - It does, which leads me to my next question, because when you have risk ratings that show up, obviously it creates a level of alert. So I don't know if it's in this document. I'm sorry, is my time? Oh, I'm still good. I don't know if it's in this document, but where is it identified what exactly are the risks that were found at these business process audits?

[02:50:45] Is that listed by school? Is that just listed overall? Where can I find more information in terms of what the school needs to shore up? Sure. So I think that a question I think Danelle can assist. Maybe what we can do, if the school board members would love to hear maybe more about those high risks, should we talk about them here now?

[02:51:05] Or, I don't know, I just want to know whether this is the forum for it, that is not up for me to decide. I just like to have that information. Board members can use their time as they want to use it. We did discuss each of the reports in detail at the audit committee.

[02:51:26] But maybe, Danelle, do you mind to speak about those, like, where to find them first for Riccardi to know and then maybe go into a little bit of the details about where they are? Kind of like the key highlights, right? Like the key takeaways. That would be helpful. Sure. So, and if you want to access those business process audits from this annual report, there is a link listed in the report on page 14, and it'll take you to the OAG web page of all the audit reports, and they are listed there, and you click on each individual audit report, and it will bring it up for you. But were there anyone in particular that you had?

[02:52:03] I have two schools here and only one has a high risk. So I would love to get the example of what is the high risk rating for Justice High School for Justice High School. And I can remember off the top of my head, I believe there was no review of the the FMR report was there was no review of that. It was not completed and approved by the principal in a timely manner. And I believe it was more than one instance. When we go in, we'll sample them like the most current three months to make sure that they are doing it.

[02:52:33] you know on a timely basis by the date specified by financial services and I believe for Justice High School I believe all the three months we looked at none none of those records of those reviews or reconciliations were performed so we noted that as a high instance of a high level instance and also I see I there's several of the medium risk ratings can you just give me some examples of any one of them it doesn't have to be specific so for some examples include timeliness of bank reconciliations, which may include the

[02:53:10] FMR reconciliations, procurement card reconciliations, also bank reconciliations, and not having sufficient documentation on file. We'll go in and do a sample of maybe 10 to 20 transactions, and we want to make sure that all the supporting documentation, including receipts or invoices, are on file, and that the purchase orders were approved prior to the purchase. Some other Other instances include that deposits were made in a timely fashion.

[02:53:43] So those are some of the main findings that occurred during business process audits. And what would constitute a low rating, a low risk rating? So a low rate would be less of significance. Say if we looked at a sample of 10, if there were maybe one out of those 10 didn't have sufficient documentation or or the one item was only five dollars you know it was a lower it was a lower amount of transaction not necessarily the act it's the frequency correct the frequency and if there's a if we see a pattern established then I would consider that a moderate or high rating I see okay

[02:54:21] thank you so whether if I may whether that is a one-off situation right like we all human being right we all I always make mistakes if you ask my husband you would know. We won't ask him. So one off right we don't see any like systematic monetary value like Danelle mentioned but then when we see something like more systemic right for example she mentioned about the one school that you highlighted I just put up the report Justice High School is all on our public website Riccardi so everyone can access them and I can send you all the link and then also think about the way how to highlight them for

[02:54:58] specific school board members if they're school in your districts but I want to say that that for that particular school at that time it was the fact that the financial monthly report hasn't been revealed and we didn't see any documentation right for auditor is not just they say they have it we have to see the documents and so in that particular case when we go there was no documentation at all and I'm sure that they are in the process of you know correcting the the actions very likely it has been corrected already I need to go back and check but we do have a quarterly follow-up on issues and also

[02:55:36] for for schools that may have high or moderate even rating we will circle back we will go back to see them within like a couple of months and to make sure they are clean and be being followed up upon and at that point is it a conversation or do you review documentation again definitely yes we request additional documentation. And if I'm not mistaken, I know Bucknell and Justice, they are on our BPA listing again this year. So they're on our listing to conduct a full-blown BPA again in FY23.

[02:56:07] Thank you. Much appreciated. Thank you. Ms. Toland followed by Ms. Kees-Gamara. Hello. Thank you for all of your great and thorough work. I really appreciate it. And I do want to thank you again for the work that you did coordinating the special education review that we had. I think we got some very valuable information from that process. I do want to ask you a quick question. Something new that we had you do, we added to your plate, was this

[02:56:41] continuous monitoring of our ESSER spending. And I know through our ESSER spending process and some of the things that we put in place, for example, using the school improvement plans as a way for people to document what they were doing and then now we're doing quarterly reviews of those plans and they're kind of rolling and being improved every quarter you know we had some really great lessons that we learned through that process have you I'm just curious if you've seen anything you know from sort of the financial audit side that you think is a good practice or something

[02:57:21] that you've seen that maybe we should be implementing across the board in other situations based on this monitoring you've been doing? Maybe I can start. Danelle is also our audit supervisor on those continuous monitoring audits.

[02:57:39] So I can start at a high level first. So we have completed two rounds of continuous monitoring and right now completing the third time. So each time when we do it, we really learn from the previous process and making sure, right, we honed in the problematic, potentially problematic areas.

[02:57:59] So, Ileng, to answer your question, we did not see anything, you know, get any findings, like related observations, right, for actually also one of my past life, what I did is like as a federal grant auditor.

[02:58:16] So when we get a grant, we are very happy, right, it's extra money, it also come with a lot of other commitments that the grantor could get the money back or request the money back so so throughout the process we not look not only looking at the compliance aspects which already we have thousands of that we also looked at the system right do we process them accordingly um and also we have so many schools now right and then the implementation is actually at the school level that add another layer of complication right instead of like a centralized

[02:58:51] monitor the money spending now the money is at the school level so each time when we conduct the continuous monitoring we try to refine that a little bit more so if I may talk about the latest round that we completed we not only do it internally we also had a conversation with our external Financial Auditor, Cherry Backert, because they also looked at the ESSER, ESSER is one of the major programs that they selected to audit.

[02:59:22] So we communicated with them and see, "Hey, Mr. and Mrs. Auditor, did you find anything maybe not documented, but we need to know?" So we had that conversation. And then we also have, of course, co-presented with the ESSER management team, I think sometimes in December and then and then looking forward right like how we can leverage upon what we know I believe right now as many of you know that the major spending item is time and effort related

[02:59:56] meaning how do we charge our time is that legitimate ESSER uh qualified money like to spend on that cap that category so it um I'm giving out the answers of my audit but likely in the third round we will focus a lot on time right do like if danielle said that that she incurred five hours on esser to charge on hourly funding is that really the the qualify for esser spending or they are more routine work right that may not be qualified so these are some of the

[03:00:29] aspects um i encourage my team to really look into um because those are big dollar like compared to like you buy like items right you can definitely see the items you have received then you fulfill that transactions but I think time and effort will be one of the key risk areas that I would like to continue to encourage my team to look at the other area is the journal entries because sometimes you post all the transactions and sometimes you reverse them at the very last minute or you add another one at the very last minute that's also another risky areas

[03:01:05] that we would love to focus on too but as of right now we haven't seen you know again findings but i just want to anticipate what will be high risk so that we can delegate our resources accordingly so with that dano anything else to add yes and i wanted to mention one of the the things i think is um that's currently established um by the esser team that it's good it's a good practice is that they have all the supporting documentations in one central location so we we We go in and pull the documentation from that location, and it should be there before they, that documentation should be uploaded by the schools or departments prior to the ESSER

[03:01:44] team submitting those funds, submitting for reimbursement of those funds. So say for instance, if an outside agency, a state, a federal, a BDOE comes in and wants to do monitoring, that documentation should already be right there, readily available for them to review. So I think that's a good practice that we have as it relates to the ESSER funding.

[03:02:02] Got it. That we could utilize for other grants, too. Correct. And they may have, Esther, I think it's the only grant I've looked at so far, so I can't say they may have that established already for other grants, but I think that that is a good practice to have. Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting to think maybe as you move forward into some of the further audits, like what are practices like that that we should say are working really well and that we should be utilizing across the board.

[03:02:30] Thank you very much for your hard work. Thank you, Ms. Toland. Ms. Keyes-Gamara. Yes. First, I want to thank you guys, because I know as I've worked with you, I thought the only problem we have is that the rest of the system and our families don't always know the great work that's coming out of your office.

[03:02:53] And so I do thank you for helping us to grow, especially with the special education review and really helping us monitor the ESSER dollars and being an independent arm so that our community understands that we are taking steps, taking our duties of accountability seriously.

[03:03:14] having listened to my colleagues I do think we can perhaps there we can improve a little bit so that they also a board members that are not on the audit committee are aware I know when I worked with you we started you call it the audit bus and perhaps there can be hot links there can be links in that as because we do distribute that to every school board member it goes into the newsletter so it would then allow that not just the community but board members

[03:03:51] to understand that these are the audits that have been done and whether those have could impact their their particular magisterial district I would also ask that the summary paragraph would highlight the schools that you have been working with so that would that could also you could be notifying not only the community but also the magisterial and I know you typically send that information out about once a month so that may be an easy way to let magisterial members who may be impacted by your work that they would then

[03:04:29] receive a notice and and they would also be given a tool to notify their community so that would be my my suggestion there just a really easy way to do it, I think. Not to tell you what to do, but I just thought that's something you already do. So, you know, because you have such a broad exposure to our system, I do think it's important for us to hear your recommendations as to where we need to look,

[03:05:02] right? You're expert in looking, but you're also expert in going around the system and helping us to figure those things out. As I listen to my colleagues, I had the privilege of working with you for about three years, and so I'm more familiar perhaps with how you regularly review things, but there are also some audits that are required by law, and I would like, I think our fellow, my colleagues need to understand what those are in addition to being able to receive

[03:05:36] your recommendations? Sure, thank you Karen. So first of all, yes, we can definitely expand upon the monthly emails that I sent out to include a summary of the audit reports that were presented so that the school board members can locate them more easily. We can certainly do that. We will start doing it this month. And then about the second question about which audits are um manually like required maybe by state law or something that we have to conduct

[03:06:11] there is only one audit which is the local school activity fund audit so which is required that the is a state code i don't have the number in front of me but it's required that we need to do it annually so to look at all the schools but then it talks about the principal it doesn't talk about exactly what need to be covered so to speak so our office has been utilizing continuous monitoring process meaning instead of like hey go to all the 200 school the same time in summer we try to spread that out throughout the year because with the assumption that the process is the same

[03:06:50] right the pro the process is the same when you looked at it on july 1 versus you look at it now so we try to alleviate some of the work with school during summer and then we looked at it throughout the whole year for continuous monitoring that is the only state requirement audit that we have to do there are some other audit that i believe we have to continue to do is the school audits which is the business process audits because that's the bread and butter of what we do even though money wise it may be small like one out of the 200 but to our

[03:07:27] office this is something really important and then on top of that we will add the different process audit meaning central process audits on an annual basis depending on after we have the discussion with the school board members and see which topics will rise to the top of the least but those are more you know that optional or something that we would talk about and see which one we should do. Thank you I know that you do a really thorough job and i was always pleased to work with you i know also that sometimes you run into recommendations

[03:08:02] that aren't resolved over a period of time uh even though you keep excellent records of that and and may you may want to think about how to make that information available to the full board but have you thought about a time period in which you need to stop monitoring and just turn it over to our superintendent it becomes an operations matter i don't think i personally believe that you should not have to monitor a recommendation for beyond say a year um or two it depending on how long it would take to get it done but have you given that some thought thank you and i i just

[03:08:39] want to say that i did not plan for that question but i really welcome that question so thank you karen so we do have a process and um we will discuss that with uh in the uh january audit committee meeting and then i will share with the full school board so it's a decision tree model so you will all see that very soon but if i can just describe it is that we will continue to follow up all the recommendations within three years and then after three years we followed it on quarterly

[03:09:13] if it still remained unresolved, then we will move it to an annually assessed timing because it doesn't really worth a lot of, I mean, we want to focus our resources and strength on some more prominent items. So between three and eight years after that recommendations were highlighted, we will follow up on an annual basis. And then after eight years, we will not follow up anymore. The major reason is because we are following the library of Virginia or our retention

[03:09:50] menu, and I'm sorry I may not get the name terminology right, but there is a statutory kind of like limitation on audit documentations that we are keeping it for eight years, which to me already is a very reasonable or you may say a longer time than what we need to keep. So that's our current process and we can think about um i can have a further conversation with dr reed so the so what right after eight years so where are those remaining recommendations should go right now fortunately we don't have any of that yet um because this is only my six years so eight

[03:10:30] years is coming up so um so the only one that we still have like going towards that direction is facilities maintenance audits. I was here like listening to the CIP discussion. Some of them is kind of like interlinked right. So those are some of the recommendations are still open at this point and it has reached a six years birthday. So we are following up on that on an annual basis now.

[03:10:58] Thank you. I would only ask that you have a conversation about at what point does the superintendent need to understand or have a report that that that those things are continuing. I mean i understand facilities but perhaps there needs to be some discussion about that all right miss darrenak koufax sorry it's been a long day guys um so i just want to thank you for your work you miss moore you miss co for your work i have had the privilege of working with you this past year

[03:11:33] and a half and um i had not ever been a part of the audit team before so i think it's really important for you to present this to us annually so we understand the good work that you are doing and the public understands what we're doing on a regular basis and all of the special other things we're doing like the special education audit like monitoring esser funds as a result of esser funds because of the covid situation so i hearing my colleagues around the table

[03:12:09] and i think it is important i think there are some things we can do to inform each other because um as we were talking about the audit chair and the audit team know and then when you're saying and then the ras knows but it's not getting back to the district member i think we need those final things in place and i think that's a combination of um you know your suggestions AND WORKING WITH THE AUDIT MEMBERS CURRENTLY AND THEN THE BOARD AND THEN THAT AUDIT TEAM

[03:12:43] WORKING WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD TO ENSURE THAT THAT LAST PART OF THE CIRCLE GET CONNECTED BECAUSE IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOU KNOW OR HAVE THE RAS DO IT BUT I THINK I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT NUMBER ONE LIKE THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT I THINK IS IMPORTANT I THINK THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT WE MAY NEED TO TALK ABOUT HOW IT GETS CONNECTED some of the things we talked about earlier today in earlier meetings how does that get

[03:13:15] to the full board if it's necessary or the individual board member so i as part of the audit team and laura jane i'm i think she's still on here um you know happy to work with the audit team your staff as well as the audit committee to see how we can take those last little bits up that we haven't talked about but um yeah i want to ensure like as she said and we have we we certainly have lots of information out there but just so everybody knows this is quite up to

[03:13:50] date every um fiscal year 22 audit is there so um and they're all detailed and they're all the reports including the one that we're going over today so thank you again and i look to continue working with you as this year goes on appreciate it thank you i'll take my turn uh first i have every confidence in uh your abilities miss co and team um to do the work that you're doing and only wish that we could give you more resources to do it one of the questions that

[03:14:25] you identify in your report is how do we get word out about our fraud fraud waste and abuse tip line And I'll be honest, I don't know anybody who spends a lot of time on the employee hub, you know, waiting for updates.

[03:14:42] And so if I'm thinking about how to get the word out, I think one way to approach that is thinking about what types of employees are likely to come into contact with either money or inventory of some kind.

[03:14:58] And so that makes me think of food services, custodians, librarians, tech specialists, warehouse employees, band, orchestra, athletics. They all maintain some kind of an inventory or take money as part of the function of their work.

[03:15:15] And they're most likely to see fraud, waste, or abuse, perhaps. So perhaps there's something that the Office of the Auditor General can do to target those employees with specific communications about their work or their work generally so that they're aware of these, you know, tools that are available to them and that they are that this is an anonymous tip line.

[03:15:42] You know, we need to stress that as well. Any thoughts about that? Sure. Thank you, Carl. So let me start with saying that we have been trying to invite ourselves to staff meetings a lot.

[03:15:58] So in the beginning of each fiscal year, I will ask my EAA to reach out to different associations and see if there's a space for me to go and present to them. Because for me, always, we can send out a lot of communication, but the trust will be difficult to build until I got the face-to-face time with the staff members.

[03:16:18] So, for example, like in the past, I always can be like, it's going to the Employee Advisory Council, the support, sorry, I'm thinking about the acronym in my mind, it's like the School Support Employee Advisory Committee that consists of the food and nutrition staff members, finance technicians, AA, and that group.

[03:16:43] So I spoke with them on a yearly basis, and the one for this year is coming up as well. And, of course, there are other categories that you mentioned we haven't been able to targetly reach out yet. And Danelle and I are taking notes on that.

[03:16:59] So we will go back and ensure that we touch upon all the higher risk, not risk is not the right term, but that the population that may have access, like you mentioned, to inventories or to money to make sure we hit all the targeted group.

[03:17:16] We will continue to provide the technical trainings that I mentioned earlier on, including to the finance technicians as well, because to us, they are a very key part in, they are the gatekeepers, right, to making sure the financial stewardship, to make sure the money is spending the way that it should be.

[03:17:35] So we will continue to do that. And we will continue to work with administration, like, for example, if principal come and say, we need an audit we go out the next day so to ensure that we kind of make sure we address you know those needs immediately because time is important we will continue to think about other avenue car i don't know we have been reaching out to all employees we're trying to come up with some very relevant technical trainings that we invite everyone to join and i think some of the staff aides have been a very kind to to join our training to learn about some of the

[03:18:14] technical components of audits so we have continued to do that I don't know that now do you have any other thoughts to add about raising the awareness of the fraud ways and abuse channel yes there has been discussion rather than thank me you have already discussed about trying to get with HR and see if we can have we include have some type of module and onboarding process so that you know all new employees coming in will know about and are aware of that fraud waste and abuse hotline you provide them with that number um you know kind of define what fraud waste and

[03:18:49] abuse is for them um so we we have reached out to hr but um you know we're still in talks to see if that is an avenue that we can use um to help increase the awareness i'm sure the superintendent can assist you in making sure that that is an avenue for you um additionally i think uh meeting with OCCR to explore you know producing videos etc multiple languages and so on and I don't think you can undersell the importance of removing intermediaries from the approach to people

[03:19:27] staff associations are a great place to start but we have the ability as the school system to reach staff members directly so you know whether that means coming up with an annual email that goes to all staff or some staff with the video and some written text about how this is a resource for them for reporting i think think outside the box come up with a plan and then you just do it you know um so we have one uh go back ms mclaughlin thank you um so ms co i wanted

[03:20:01] to share uh maybe some constructive feedback that i hope maybe we can see in in this future report i really appreciate the hyperlinks there but my concern for both the board and for the public is you know there is just endless amounts of reports and documents and part of what is very helpful is to have something that gives that sort of high level spotlight and so for example you done an audit on on division council operations having just a hyperlink to here were the five performance

[03:20:40] audits we did and then you have to go and read those and now you've got like five different 20 page reports to go through i would prefer my colleagues that we consider that this annual report should give a breakdown of high level key findings for each of the five performance audits

[03:20:59] If we really do want even for the public to appreciate the value add of what is audit, because I think so few people really understand its functionality, then, you know, I think the report needs to, I'd rather see it embedded in the report with the key findings for each of those five performance audits, and then people can hyperlink based on what they see in the annual report itself.

[03:21:25] Otherwise, I think people just go, that's nice, but it's not going to capture their attention. And so even today, as someone who's not a member of audit, though I've enjoyed my time when I did serve on it, I would have hoped today that the full board would have gotten a briefing of those five performance audits because I think that's a key component of the work you do.

[03:21:50] I would have liked to have also had maybe a little bit more detail on the waste, fraud, and abuse cases for both the public and for the board. What was found in those fraud, waste, and abuse cases?

[03:22:06] Was everything unfounded? If it wasn't, what was it? Because part of what we do here in these work sessions is to dialogue with each other and the superintendent, and I'd like to see us be able to improve on that. Sure, definitely. It's a continuous improvement process, so I really appreciate it, Megan.

[03:22:24] You know, you highlight how we can make the report more useful for you. So we really appreciate it. So in the next round, or even in the monthly email that I sent to you all, we also want to continuously improve it, like how can we not just hyperlink -- hyperlink is good, but then also give a little bit of details behind that, right, so that you will get into that link.

[03:22:49] So we would definitely do that, and we can try to start with that in our January email to you all after the audit committee where we summarized how the meeting committee go, and then we, so that for those of you who may not be like, you know, be with us for the audit committee, you can have the same level of details as well.

[03:23:10] So thank you. Thank you, Ms. Koh. We have audited the time and the list of people wanting to speak, and we are adjourned. Thank you. We have one more go back. We're unadjourned. Just a real quick, I just want to give you an opportunity to explain when you do get a fraud, waste, and abuse claim, how do you handle that and how do you report and close that out?

[03:23:38] Because I know you have a procedure, but I'm not sure that our board members know about it. Sure. Thank you, Karen. So we have multiple avenues to receive cases. So, one is the ad nominus hotline. We also have an online submission form.

[03:23:54] So for the citizen members who are listening to us today, you can just go to the hotline and type to that form. It will go to us. And of course, you can also call us and sometimes people just come and see me here physically. So when we receive the case, no matter what they are, we lock them into our audit software.

[03:24:16] And then we also looked at each one of them, looked at the facts and information very diligently. And we follow a regulation and for those of you who would like to find out all the details is regulation 1410 which is the investigation procedure on fraud, waste and abuse or other financial wrongdoing.

[03:24:39] Again it's regulation 1410. And then we would also look at policy 1107 as well. That is the fraud, waste and abuse policy, meaning how FCPS defined what is fraud, waste and abuse.

[03:24:55] So we reviewed every single case with this two major directive, a policy and a regulation. Sometimes we may need to refer the case out to other departments within FCPS, such as human resources or sometimes we need to refer to the residency office because a lot of the cases come in are residency related such as Esther I saw you send your kids to a FCPS school but you live in other district Loudoun County I'll just make that up so those cases we will refer to a to the residency team who has like a team to really go out and surveillance like whether that is true

[03:25:34] or not. And after we received, like, the evidence, right, if no matter what we circling back with the claimant. So there's a closure with the claimant about what's happened with the case. So that's pretty much is a highlight. But the Regulation 1410 govern how we looked at into different cases. Thank you. I don't want to hold everybody up, but I do. There's

[03:26:01] There's a lot. You go through a lot of steps to make sure, but perhaps the link that may be missing is that the full board is not always aware that you've completed that work. So maybe that's something you can talk about. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kees-Kamara. We are re-adjourned. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Have a good night.

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