Coraggio Consulting
Fairfax County School Board Governance Committee Meeting, Tuesday, January 6, 2026

Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2026
Place: Fairfax County School Board, Virginia
Length: 2h 8m (video)
Official meeting video (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evj8CJm4rSY
Official School Board page (FCPS): https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/leadership/school-board

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-28. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:07:44] - We'll just be a few more minutes, thank you. Actually, we could go ahead and get started.

[00:08:01] We'll take care of some admin things. Thank you. People walking around now. Are we gonna get, can we go ahead and get started, folks? Okay, we're gonna go ahead and convene the Governance Committee meeting on January 6th at 5:37.

[00:08:20] Thanks for your patience in starting. The, we are all here. Happy New Year, everyone. The first order of business is to approve the minutes. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes? Agenda item 1.02. Mr. Frisch has moved. Dr. Anderson seconds.

[00:08:35] All in favor? That is unanimous for the motion of the minutes, okay? All right, today we are gonna get through three buckets of work. One is to work on capital improvement program or facilities-related policies that have little or no change.

[00:08:54] Then we'll move on to ones that might require a bit more discussion and have change. And then we're gonna look at some human resources-related policies. so let's dive in we're in agenda item 1.03 the first policy is policy 1460 religion and we do have on our board docs the redlined version dr anderson i see you want to be recognized go ahead yes thank you um what i would like to recommend and this is not an edit that is substantial to

[00:09:27] the content but rather to the grammar i think the philosophy is a little bit laden and i'd like to propose admitting the first part of the philosophy that says the school board affirms their position that i'd like to begin that section with the fairfax county school board shall be neutral in respect to religious beliefs and shall not engage in any activity that disparages or advocates religion. Mr. Frisch. Thanks. I think this raises a question of I'm not sure why we have

[00:10:06] the philosophy section of our policies generally speaking. They should speak the policies themselves should speak for themselves. As I've been crafting some of these, I'm like, why am I writing this? And so I would also say that the suggested change would be stepping away from the format of all of the other philosophies that have been included. So I'm not opposed to it necessarily, but if we're looking for uniformity that would be not uniform and that's may i i also think that as i'm reading these just kind of refreshing my memory they're all kind of inconsistent so not all of them start with affirming and i i don't necessarily think that they all need to start with

[00:10:44] affirming i think we need to have a philosophy that speaks to the values but some of them are a little bit wonkier than others and i don't think we lose anything by removing that first component so i and thank you mr frisch for your work on these philosophies just a reminder you we have talked about philosophy purpose vision the goal here is to at least this is a better step forward we're getting the purpose of the board's you know values down so i would say without objection uh striking the school board affirms their position that and just begin the philosophy with the

[00:11:20] fairfax county school board shall be neutral etc so starting leaving with the the obviously there and then if that needs to be adjusted in other policies just like we did previously we can go ahead and do that by agreement so so is anyone ready to make a dr anderson has a motion to move this to wait hold on let's make a motion yes yes i will make a motion to move policy 1460.3 to the

[00:11:55] full board oh okay the governance committee will send policy 1460 religion that's what it's called okay religion literally as revised to the full board for adoption the second mr. Frisch will second any further comment dr. Anderson oh well I'll just have to do this I'll just have to do this he just got real short okay dr.

[00:12:33] I wasn't sure if there was a floor in there Thank You Deputy Clerk Brown Dr. Anderson do you have anything more you'd like to share no that's it okay Dr. Mr. Frisch okay all those in favor of the motion that is unanimous way to go that was about five minutes okay next we have policy 2201 compulsory attendance requirements Dr.

[00:13:07] i'd like to make a motion to move this forward if we're able to admit the first part and start this with the fairfax county school board shall adhere to following the virginia code requirements regarding compulsory school attendance and then i do have a question so i'm just going to wait for the clerk to capture that in notes while right okay sure um the fairfax county school board again trying to be consistent with what was in the previous one shall adhere to

[00:13:45] following the Virginia Code requirements dot dot dot any anyone else for some comments I do want to say that although we just approved that religion policy the religion policy under its section well it's misnumbered yikes so in the

[00:14:21] religion policy the summary does not state that the philosophy was included whereas in this one it does state that the summary is included so that is something one of those administrative things that I think we I will ask if we can give access you know flexibility to the clerk we have that language that we can vote on at the end to make those similarities right so we want to be sure that summaries of changes since last publication sure I think and I'm trying to write down the stock language here so like that one was the school board

[00:14:55] affirms anyway okay anything else about this one yeah I had a question on 2201 regarding parents or guardians whose child will not have reached his or her sixth birthday is this just speaking to doctory that they can hold their children outside they could hold their children home right and I guess the question that raised for me is and I don't know whether this is the right place to do that and it may not and please confirm that with me we have a

[00:15:34] policy that you have to be five by September 30th to enter kindergarten but there's no policy well there's no code there's no Virginia code that says you have to be six in order to attend first grade should that be in here where does that live I'm guessing it might not live yes I probably should in part because children might transfer in who've been in kindergarten in a state that may have allowed an exception so if there are five

[00:16:14] and seven eights we wouldn't hold them out of first grade if they've already completed kindergarten satisfactorily right and I guess I'm asking where does that live like could that live here like we would add something about first grade here that's what I'm asking like for kids who are and you know I have the example in my house my daughter was at a private kindergarten and then well private day school preschool they decided to move her to kindergarten and my thought is well when you go to public school we'll just push you back which we

[00:16:49] never did do because she's tall and etc etc but when she started first grade she was five and she wasn't going to be six for many many many more months which I think we're fine with if she's done kindergarten right but do we need I guess the question is do we need to say that somewhere and if it's not here does that live someplace else that is a question that I've been asked before I don't think we need to because it reduces our flexibility I think saying that you have to be five to do kindergarten is reasonable and then but we do have

[00:17:22] children that transfer in no very good thank you one other thing I will add is I think it would be more accurate regarding the summary of changes since last publication to say since last review because that's actually the title of the date below and publication just seems kind of random because we're not publishers so I would just ask for agreement in that without objection I think there's no objection okay is there any action to move this policy 2201 forward

[00:17:58] anyone want to make a motion oh you made it oh that was your first comment right did you well I'm sorry did you want to make a second comment no okay oh got it okay so dr. Anderson had moved and spoken to it and dr. Frisch mr. Frisch was a seconding any other comments nope all right all in favor of sending that the Governance Committee send policy 2201 compulsory attendance requirements as revised to the full board for adoption and that is unanimous for everyone thank

[00:18:29] you okay next policy 4425 lactation support programming dr. Anderson I'm going to start with my question the language in blue says that we shall provide accommodations until the child is one why so specific is it is this a legal requirement that only until the child is one and who's checking that birthday shouldn't it be as a parent is requiring it that we provide it seems to

[00:19:06] be kind of judgy I agree with the latter statement I just wonder if that's within the statute but I'll ask John to look that up so while he looks that up I have another thought in terms of the beginning of this philosophy the Fairfax County School Board recognizes that's why I would start and then take out everything else recognizes the well-documented health advantages so that's how I'd like it to be worded but I'm also questioning that recognition

[00:19:42] this is and I know this is our values and this is our beliefs but is this the territory we really want to be weighing in I just some people think you know breastfeeding is best some people do not think that I don't want as a board member to do anything besides what is required by the law and I don't want to get to that space where we're saying this is well documented and it is good what if I'm a staff member reading this and I choose to not breastfeed oh but the judge the board is judging me because it's well documented as per their words I just wonder if we could take a more neutral stance on the introduction

[00:20:18] okay yes ma'am well before you decide to do that others might want to comment on dr. Reed's I mean dr. Anderson's statement yes ma'am ms lady well I mean you know I don't know that we need a philosophy for all of these but we were trying to create consistency and this is the direction that it seemed like the momentum was taking us. I do think it's a section we spend a lot of time wordsmithing. I'm fine to have one and I think I agree anything in there that

[00:20:55] could be misinterpreted as leaning towards a belief in something versus people who may not believe in it, we can make it more benign. So I'd be comfortable with editing it. Thank you. Mr. Frisch. So I'm okay with the first part that speaks to the science behind the belief I agree on the arbitrary age usage being struck and would support well I mean here's the question right

[00:21:32] because this is not just a philosophy right this is laying out that there will be reasonable breaks for staff I presume this could apply to students as well you up to the age of one and so there may be a reason that there's an age limit on when they want to allow children to be brought to school right and so maybe there's a better way of articulating that and it seems that like the reason

[00:22:11] they may have put the age limit on there is because the child might be least disruptive if the child was older I'm not sure - A child is not present if you wrestle your pumping. - Well, let's, before we debate it, let's, Mr. Frisch, did you have more to add?

[00:22:28] - No, it does seem more prescriptive than the other philosophies. - It is in the code of Virginia until the age of one. - And I will add-- - We could become more liberal than that, but that is the code of Virginia.

[00:22:48] - Well, and just as a facilitator, I just want to mention before I call on our next member, just sent around the memo that was given to us previously and so it does reference the state code it doesn't say that that's what the state code says but that might be helpful for you all to take a look at again I know I just did miss st. John Cunningham so I agree with well I know we're going to the code doesn't mean we have to stick to the code we could expand it if we wanted to but I do think that this justification that we're putting here is because we

[00:23:26] recognize that this is important that's why we're allowing it to happen because what ends up happening sometimes and there will be resentment why does she get a break and I don't well because we didn't think that this was valuable based on science then why are we affording a break for people to take time off and go take a break and that that's just the one of the things that I want to say that this affirms the fact that we are making this decision based on scientific evidence and it doesn't judge whether you decide not to I mean

[00:24:03] some people can breastfeed some people can't some people choose to some people choose not to I don't think the judgment is there I think the judgment goes more to workplace and why we're allowing this to happen within the workplace if that if that makes sense so I think that that's why I would want that to still be there and then if we want to change the date the age again that's gonna go back to like do that are some people going to feel that it's that there are some individuals that are being abusive of that those breaks

[00:24:37] versus not like if I mean like I would have breastfed my kids till five if they would have I mean I love breastfeeding so but some people would not I'm sorry I know I'm just saying that there are some people that will breastfeed their children for a long time do you know I'm saying and there's some people there's six months I'm done you know so so I I'm trying to be sensitive to the person that is using the service and also the staff members that are watching the

[00:25:14] person use the service if that makes sense so in the interest of time I want just point out a few things one of them is that this concept of acknowledging something because it's something that some people might need it makes me think of our policy around rooms for prayer and meditation I would like to look at that and see what are we what's the commonality right like we can compare the other thing though unfortunately as I'm looking at the format of these things I first want to say we've come a long way we've done a lot of work with these policies but not a single one of these three is formatted the same this one it says purpose then it says number two summary of changes then it says

[00:25:52] philosophy the other versions have philosophy section this one has a goals section the previous one had requirements the previous one had a policy statement we're gonna need the superintendent and the clerk's help to point these things out and help us rectify now I do have a suggested format I'd have to pull it back up I thought we discussed this at the end of the previous year miss lady I don't recall but either I get that we don't want to adopt something outright and have to change everything but at least as we review things we've got to be looking at the formats because it's it's it's a

[00:26:27] problem and this one I mean doesn't even make sense it's 1 2 D 3 I mean we need to be presented with right things so what I'd like to do is set this one aside because I don't want us to get hung up on this we have other things that we have put off so I'd like to put this aside and we could determine what do with it at the end of the meeting if that is amenable to everyone is that okay without objection okay thank you everyone miss marin i do want to note that my office is working with the

[00:26:59] superintendent's office on coming up with uh formatting suggestions so that is working on a template that can be used moving forward as we start making changes to policies that that's not new news we've discussed that last year and i have an example but at the very least if we don't have it adopted please don't give the board three documents with three different formats make your best recommendation to us okay okay the next one facility is

[00:27:34] 1.04 let's pull this up here okay all right so we're gonna start with 8561 child care services do you like to speak dr. Anderson I'd like to move it forward to the school board for consideration I know you have language but is there a

[00:28:06] second to that mr. fresh dr. Anderson would like to speak mr. fresh I think we should yeah and we'll try to write it as we go sure let me make a note of that as well okay let me so we're going to be uniform in how we capture the summary of changes okay yes any other comment on this one yeah so miss lady thank you

[00:28:45] sorry I'm trying to find it in my binder but I just I have a question about when school is over capacity and we have an ongoing lease with a child care center who's in a school like that and where trailers have been put on the property and I've had in one of my particular schools constituents upset that their kids are moved to a trailer having said that I ran on advocacy for preschool for all so I don't I don't want to give up space I'm just asking the question I

[00:29:21] I don't know if that's not in the policy anywhere.

[00:29:40] Yes, thank you, Dr. Anderson. It says classroom space as is available. So I guess I just need to follow up on the accuracy and the fidelity with which that's being done. Okay, thank you.

[00:29:59] - Are there other comments on this? We have a motion to move it forward. So it looks like we can, oh, okay. So it sounds like we have another question, Dr. Anderson?

[00:30:17] - No, I was just hoping to hear what Dr. Reed's response was to Ms. Lady's question because we have similar things where trailers are being added in order to do this accommodation. Like, how are we working around adhering to this policy when we are putting in preschool programming?

[00:30:39] Because otherwise, if we're not doing that, why bother have it? - I guess I'll have to go back and check whether it's a preschool of ours or a SAT class, or I'm not sure what we're talking about.

[00:30:56] - Okay, so it's county preschool, so we're seeing that as different from our-- - Mr. Frisch, did you wanna add, if that's okay, Dr. Anderson? - Yeah, I think sometimes like specificity matters, right? So like trailers or classrooms.

[00:31:11] We may not think that they're as good a classroom as a classroom in a physical school building, but we use them as classrooms. And so I take the point and have students in the school that Ms. Lady is thinking about, and it's an issue that should be addressed.

[00:31:29] But if there are trailers at a school modulars at a school and they're being used for daycare preschool etc it's because we have the classroom space for it however we define classrooms modulars or classrooms trailers or classrooms school buildings have classrooms so I would not want to tie the hands of staff on whether those services can be offered outright in the entire county if there are not available

[00:32:05] classrooms in the school building because you can think about margins right like what what is that to say like if the student population already pushes the capacity into trailers or modulars but they could do they could have space for pre-k and and daycare in it in the extra space that's not being used but they're still going to be in there in those in those trailers or or modulars regardless

[00:32:36] whether there's daycare or preschool then it just gets really hard to put down rules that can apply neatly to everything I think if the board wanted to have something along the lines of what the priorities are like is there a prioritization of the use space I think that's probably something that would be would merit further discussion that's it okay so this is getting really interesting because I haven't looked at this in this with this lens since we

[00:33:15] really dug into the facility joint facility committee and also the athletic council work and this really has me thinking about our rooms that are used for SAC and the cost it takes to run them and the use and it also makes me think just as a matter of reviewing the remainder of these policies maybe we should just go through and familiarize ourself with the the topics that we're gonna go through because there might be these other connections but one of the policies it's not on this list but it is the community use policy and as I've reviewed that policy and considered bringing forth changes this childcare

[00:33:55] piece could go right into that and so do we need a separate policy about childcare if it should be in the community use policy because if we if this policy is to be about FCPS is childcare spaces that's one thing but it currently talks about other community uses and we already have a policy that does that not very clearly but if we're trying to make things as strong as we can focused I kind of want to put a pause in this and say okay because there's a lot of stuff we're still trying to figure out with that so miss

[00:34:31] John Cunningham and Mr. Frisch. You just kind of got my brain thinking in a different way. I think what's important to realize is finding the balance because particularly in certain areas, mine in particular, some of those programs, the SAC program, the child care programs are essential for our families and they because they are in the school those professionals work with the teachers and

[00:35:07] so by de facto they kind of become like an extra even though they're being operated by the county the employees are working with teachers and they're helping kids are kind of tutoring them they're kind of working hand-in-hand with them that's kind of unseen benefit that that we see happening for our kids and that is also a benefit for our parents that they know that their kids are in a safe space they're with their friends they're with you know so many times it's the SAC person that is telling the parent when they're picking them up this is what happened in class this was their homework this is how I helped them with it I think you know we

[00:35:46] have to be familiar with what's happening down in the ground you know with with these kids and with these programs and see that they are in a lot of ways they are true partners with us and it's a benefit of the space issue it's like six in one hand half a dozen in the other type of situation because it does benefit our kids and it does benefit our parents.

[00:36:10] Dr. Everson, not Mr. Frisch. I hear what you're saying about community use, and since that is still yet to be determined, I would be very comfortable in moving forward with this, but as we are looking through the community use, if it makes sense to fold it in, let's go ahead and fold it in at that time.

[00:36:33] There's nothing that means we have no restrictions on how many times we could review a policy. we just have so many of them that we don't get a chance to do that on a frequently enough basis but we could go move this forward today and it gets voted upon and in three months we fold it in the community use and we sunset it I I don't think we need to pick and choose I think this could move forward until it is no longer applicable I'm with you like 90% of the way there but where I got tripped up was that it says that the host school principal shall be the responsibility of the endorsing agency and I'm not sure if that's saying that the principal has to be accountable for this,

[00:37:11] because again, I see a lot of, at the number four responsibilities, the coordination of the activities with the host principal shall be the responsible of the endorsing agency, which I guess would be us.

[00:37:27] What I want to avoid is putting anything more on principals than they're already doing. And I see how things happen currently where there's a lot of expectations about community use put on the principals and what they're supposed to be doing.

[00:37:44] So are we clear that that's not what this is saying? Mr. Frisch, you have thoughts? - Whatever it says, we aren't putting more on, this is currently on, right? 'Cause it's not underlined in red. So it's currently the policy.

[00:38:04] - So there's essentially no changes to this policy, really, right? Oh, it was added. It's not in red, but shouldn't it be in red?

[00:38:19] The school board, that's new language, correct? The school board recognizes the operation of childcare centers as an important community service? 'Cause if that is the only change,

[00:38:29] sure I can I can look at that let's just take a second on the old policy the

[00:39:07] language is the same it's it's not that philosophy was added at the the child care services was renamed philosophy so i'm happy to change that language if that's what you want but that statement the school board recognizes is there in the original policy they were ahead of their time okay shall we uh anyone want to move then to move this forward anybody new want to move it mr frish do you want to move it marcia right here yes okay uh miss st john cunning oh

[00:39:35] let me read the motion my apologies uh get the script up you got it okay so thank you we already have a motion on the table with dr. Anderson movie did you already my apologies there okay also ahead of our time okay great so the motion is up there all in favor to move this policy forward that's unanimous wonderful and I did also resend you the whole link to all of those background materials colleagues

[00:40:11] in case you want that handy okay the next one maintenance of physical facilities 8560 so we have added a philosophy section mr. Frisch is your thing up no dr. Anderson I'm hoping that we could without objection instead of having those two sections which are four and five as office of facilities

[00:40:47] management and then a separate for the school principal that we could change number four to responsibilities and have those two be two paragraphs underneath it and then we won't need a section 5 I'm not asking to change any language just a title of the role the school principal that doesn't really align with anything else that we're doing but we have many roles and responsibilities so if we have responsibilities you know trust policy that's always where I go because there was something for everybody so responsibilities would be number four and then those two would be paragraphs

[00:41:23] underneath that I don't object to that so just in the terms of our formatting that we want to do so like a roman numeral four now again it now again in the previous ones it's been different right we've had the number two be the philosophy section and number three be the summary so again we're going to give without objection the clerks the ability to make it all consistent the order of intro um a purpose philosophy summary of changes and now we're

[00:41:56] changing this particular one to responsibilities maybe we'll do that in others but okay clerks let Let me know when you are good to move forward.

[00:42:13] So Dr. Anderson has, we've got responsibilities that will be spell-checked. And then is the Office of Facilities Management still the correct name? That is the current name. - Should it be changed to, excuse me, to chief instead of director?

[00:42:29] - Well, that's what I'm, oh. - Under the supervision of the chief? In the first sentence? - Yes, yes, instead of director. You're right, Miss Lady. Under the supervision of the director. Mr. Gordon, would you mind reciting your title for us we have it right here since you're here chief of facility services and capital planning and is office of facilities management still the overall office right or did we i don't have my org chart

[00:43:04] down it is right okay thank you mr fish did you have something more mr fish oh mr fish has more okay so as i've been working my way through the government's manual and finding all kinds of things that we used to call it this way i worry about creating future problems in policies by identifying exact we talked we did talk about this you're right we were gonna just put superintendent every time we talked about this that is it the superintendent designee perfect catch-all and then that way if a future superintendent in like in like 2040 yes 2050 decides that they're going to

[00:43:44] change how they structure things we don't have to change every policy so mr. fresh you're reminding me I think what I'd like to what I'd like to offer the committee is soon after this meeting sending the list that I compiled through last year and I think beginning of this year with all these kinds of things and then maybe we could actually agree on them maybe carve out like 10 minutes at the next meeting I like that idea I like that okay let me just write that down on my although I will say it is fun to find names of offices that haven't been in the name of that office it's like 1983 or whatever so it's like

[00:44:23] a it's like yeah it's like a treasure hunt I found the word tape recorder recently I'm pretty sure we say his or her but that's one of those things also so let me pull up that thing again without objection giving the clerks authority to or flexibility to change there to his or her or somehow make it gender-neutral some other way well just to be clear we wouldn't be putting the department name here either would we no yes so the superintendent or under the

[00:44:55] super so delete everything before under yeah great could also just be their designee but yeah that's but I think we've had that discussion and we were trying to make it standard so that should be there even though it's singular

[00:45:29] superintendent I know so but his or her is not inclusive I'm with you and so let's let me share what I've collected as we've said before right and then let's make a decision I agree with you mr. fish and then so also strike the office of facilities management in the second sentence right the superintendent shall be you know or is charged or shall be shall and may you know how that goes shall be charged with how about just developing can we cut out charge with

[00:46:08] the responsibility charge with developing maintenance is that okay in the second paragraph to remove the office of facilities oh screen it's just removing the not just but it is removing office of OFM which is also in the last line on this page as well and then do we want to be dictating here what the school principal does and what the custodians do since that's pretty

[00:46:41] operational so thoughts on that are we striking that language too that is very specific the last should be the superintendent or name is the second

[00:47:09] reference in the paragraph above I actually have a question when we say the superintendent is it like a royal we like do you read that in our policies if it just said the superintendent is your designee implicit or do you like having a clear line between things that the board is expecting you personally to do versus things that they're saying that you should delegate given that we've on a macro sense given you ability to designate it to delegate everything

[00:47:48] when I see superintendent I know I'll be held accountable whoever I put in charge of it which is true so how about just the super we don't have to put or designee again word economy right I like it capital I think we should capitalize it okay so I will note that down in one of those formatting things okay your first are you all good dr. Anderson I'm sorry I just I was looking can we be consistent in the in the semantics with the first paragraph

[00:48:25] to say that the superintendent shall be responsible for safeguarding the public interest the public investments yada yada yada instead of all of those words under the supervision of the super I mean that's a given who else will be supervising that so the superintendent shall shall safeguard or be responsible it's just something like that now shall safeguard how about that the public's investment public facility assets right I like using that term public facility assets that's what we've been using more there you go yeah that that works and then in the second

[00:49:05] paragraph, just let me know when you're ready. Instead of the school print, that's not quite it.

[00:49:21] - Wouldn't we delete all of the other things after that up to by insuring? - I'm sorry, I can't really see what you've got going on there. - It says public facility assets. I think that would be inclusive of school physical facilities, grounds, and equipment.

[00:49:37] - I'm agnostic over that, but that's fine. - The phrase that's been being used when we're doing the CIP work is to safeguard public school facility assets. - Gotcha. - Oh, instead of investment. - That's been the phrase we were trying to be more consistent. - And equipment? - Public school facility assets.

[00:49:53] - Would that be inclusive of physical, I'm sorry, grounds and equipment? - Yes. - Or in addition to? - It's all the things. - Okay. - It's all the things. So not the, just public school facility assets.

[00:50:08] - All right. - And then, well, I was just making a statement. - We'll vote on it, but. - And then with the second paragraph, instead of the school principals, since we're, should it be that the superintendents shall provide oversight, you know, dot, dot, dot, and then in the regulations, she can specify that this is gonna be a principal responsibility.

[00:50:37] - Just say thumbs up, just say yes. - Say again. - There you go, all of the above.

[00:50:56] Is that all for now? - I will say I'm happy to approve this today to get it moving, but I think I'm gonna bring some language at the dais to add something akin to what we've been talking about with the Joint Facility Committee, which is recognition that our schools are used more than instruction because it's coming to constantly on us that we have to maintain it and our dollars and our instructional dollars are going more and more to maintenance so I don't know but I can't do it right now so I'd rather bring it to the full board at that time so shall we Oh mr. first maybe language

[00:51:35] that's reused in the what is it 85 at it might be never mind it's not an important point i can't find it go ahead okay okay great so it looks like we're good this is pretty basic and um so the school principal part is stricken out it's hard to see and then just do please spell check

[00:52:13] responsibilities up there no no no no no no no do we want to do that dr reed so so you don't want to name the school principal when it's their facility okay i mean i definitely think it's the responsibility of the principal to do that for their well I mean here's here's what we get into with policy right like if the board really wants it to be the principals then they should tell the superintendent that we really want it to be the principals otherwise a future superintendent who may not agree with

[00:52:51] the current superintendent that it should be the principals could decide that somebody else gets to do it alternatively the board could update its policy if that happens so you know I'm comfortable with how it is sorry I have no objections if you want to leave it as a school principal because I thought we to cover that in the regulations because at the end of the day that's who's gonna do it and I think the regulation needs to speak to some of the issues that when people are not routinely walking your building especially in summer that they

[00:53:26] need to be right I mean we got 200 facilities that's why I'd rather say the school principal and I don't know if we want to say oversight of the physical facility if we can say oversight of the we have other facilities that don't have principal in them right so is it I agree I'm thinking out loud right because we definitely have facilities that don't have a principal so maybe just in

[00:53:59] regulation it will work so yeah and I think again getting away from physical facility and more towards that public school facility assets because that has been all encompassing to a building like you know even gatehouse I think also the logic then applies to removing the sentence about the custodians there could be something in the future where different schools are cleaned differently you know and again it is one group of employees and that also i wonder is collective bargaining implications like well it is interesting because they don't say anything about your building supervisor

[00:54:38] they reference custodians again i'm comfortable with that word to come out and just be if it needs to be part of regulation be part of regulation i'm really pleased with where this is headed and i think as we do more of the facility work and then maybe go around these policies it'll get even better so okay um so are we ready to move this not quite because okay change to use the public school facility assets a second time kind of screws with the verbiage that follows to ensure

[00:55:11] okay take out it's it might work if it just was asset sure i don't know shall provide oversight of the public school facility asset to ensure its cleanliness and ensure it it's also not always just buildings it's fields it's parking lots so that's why that public school facility asset free is something we're trying to use all the time then this should be shall provide oversight of the public school facility assets to

[00:55:43] ensure cleanliness safety access that is accessible I mean this is opening a can of worms but yeah I mean also the problem is that this policy is clearly this part of the policy at least is clearly about it was written for a school building and so what we're now trying to do is drive a comprehensive all of our assets up onto the language that was defined for a school building so what do you what do you say if we pause and go to the next one and see because I'm just wondering if all of these have this element like are we

[00:56:23] gonna have to come back and like I can I can commit to working after this to try and bringing a next round with edits that weave these things together because you're right mr. fish I mean the title is maintenance of facility a physical facilities while parking lot is a physical facility I'm building but they're also I just want to say that Ms. Brown or deputy clerk and I had worked through trying to understand where things were in their cycle of being

[00:56:58] reviewed this one and environmental stewardship have been redlined the rest had not been are they red line now okay do people want to hammer this out or do we want to move on a little bit I think that there's a world of difference between making a couple changes here and there to something at the in a meeting and being able to say like clearly this paragraph needs some work if we could identify what we'd like the paragraph to do

[00:57:39] staff can change that and bring it back for the next meeting and i think what i've heard thus far in the conversation around that final paragraph is that we want a paragraph that speaks to the the superintendent's responsibility to provide oversight of our public school facility assets, and then what that oversight includes.

[00:58:04] It could include, to include, but not limited to, cleanliness, blah, blah, blah, blah. The whole litany of the types of things that they'd be responsible for. Knowing that most of the time we're talking about schools, but there's a lot of other things that happen in the school division as well.

[00:58:22] Knowing all that, they bring us back the paragraph and it's much closer and probably saves us a lot more time than wordsmithing something entirely new. - All right, what do others think? Shall we set this aside for right now? Mr. Frisch did just give some clear direction.

[00:58:39] Miss St. John Cunning. - No, I'm actually, I agree with Mr. Frisch just by reading this and I actually sideboard with Miss Lady just because of the specific wording and trying to figure out where policy ends and where regulations begin because some of this wording, like I know how principal doesn't generate the work order, somebody else does, you know, the custodians, the building supervisor, and then the way we've divided it is for a school building and saying the school principal shall, but you know, we have buildings that, like Virginia Hills, there's not a school principal, but there is somebody there that's in charge of the building.

[00:59:15] So I do think that we should send it back with that kind of direction for clarity if we're going to make it more encompassing for all assets versus just school buildings that are being used as schools. You know, we have Dunlory, we have Wilton Woods.

[00:59:32] We have so many, like several in my region, Virginia Hills, that are used as Lee Center. - So, Superintendent Reed, do you feel you have the notes needed to update the policy as such?

[00:59:49] - Yes, ma'am. - Okay. - I'm sorry, just one more thing, 'cause we might be able to give this guidance as well. Where it says maintenance of, excuse me, physical facilities. Collectively, I think we're on the same page of using the new language when we're talking about it.

[01:00:06] So it should be public school-- - Facility asset. - Public school facility assets there. Maintenance of public school facility assets. And then because we've changed this section to not need to iterate out responsibilities since we're putting them all under the superintendent, that section needs a new title other than responsibilities, which could be responsibility for maintenance or something like that.

[01:00:42] But just know that it doesn't make sense to put responsibilities for one person, you know, so maybe come back with some ideas there. - Okay, so we will leave that one be for now and heading back to the superintendent.

[01:00:57] The next one up is 8552 environmental stewardship. I love this one, yeah. - Just looks like a lot because there's strikethrough and underline. - Mr. Frisch, would you like to speak a bit about it?

[01:01:14] I know you spent some time on it. - Yeah, so in 2021, the board finished three years of work on the Joint Environmental Task Force with the Board of Supervisors, when both the Board of Supervisors and the school board adopted the recommendations of the Joint Environmental Task Force, which included board members, community members, students, a whole bunch of people.

[01:01:43] And we worked on, it was me and Ms. Tolan, and before that it had been Dahlia, and, excuse me, Supervisor Palchuk and Pat Hines from Hunter Mill, and I believe that, and Ms. Corbett Sanders from Mount Vernon.

[01:02:02] And we worked on the recommendations which were into various categories, including energy conservation, transportation, facilities, and so on, waste, recycling.

[01:02:20] And so what resulted was what became the JET directives. And so the policy did not speak to those things, even though the board adopted it. And that's why we find ourself here.

[01:02:36] - Okay, so it weaves together a lot of stuff. Dr. Anderson? - Yes, I'm gonna jump into this, if that's okay. Hopefully trying to chunk it by page. On the first page, purpose summary is fine.

[01:02:51] philosophy this is one of the first ones that we're looking at that says FCPS all of the others have said the FCPS school board so I suggest that we make that change that the school board because this is the school board's document to to the division so the school board the Fairfax County School Board is dedicated to so that's one that I'd like to offer I agree and also take out the we commit because that's not the same person's voice so making that okay

[01:03:27] thank you there's a lot of heat coming in here right now we're having thermostat issues okay so let's so philosophy seems okay and then so we'll go to the definition philosophy is okay and then the back page oh shoot I completely misdefinition I don't have a thought on that but I'm gonna go to where I have

[01:04:04] thoughts the responsibilities and I know we this was raised a few years ago when the JET committee concluded its work and it was adopted by FCPS so therefore by the by the board so therefore it's the board's work I am not sure if I see the utility of kind of having this history lesson here not under responsibilities it should be who's responsible for what and this does not convey that as far as I'm concerned just speaks to the history upon which the jet was founded and how

[01:04:42] it came to be the board already adopted those recommendations so it's irrelevant to me I would also take a turn to say that it captures the genesis behind it but should it be under responsibilities that's the question maybe it's more to purpose and we get back to the formatting that we in a lot of other places but responsibilities I'm looking for somebody is going to be it's going to be their duty to complete this thing the way that we just had that long discussion about the school buildings and the physical assets you're going to

[01:05:21] be responsible for a particular thing there's no more responsibility to the jet because it no longer exists that task force is dead so that's one and then my other question is regarding the next three sections that speak to carbon neutrality green globes i guess those two sections i'm wondering both of these are activities to get to a better environmental place should they be captured under one heading that has

[01:05:54] those two as two separate activities so that's a wondering um so i'll pause here mr frisch did you want to comment yeah I agree on the jet information being under responsibilities being a lot but it could be something like context or the you know the school boards charge or something like that other than responsibilities in terms of

[01:06:33] items six and seven I'm fine with them being separated out because they're independent things as is number eight and number nine and number ten they're all independent things that have specifics that we're asking the superintendent and company to drive towards but I I do think that the jet information is helpful if it does get struck then we're gonna have to change the way that it's used throughout the document because we use the jet because is used in parentheses the first time.

[01:07:12] We used JET throughout for the rest of the document. But I would be in favor of changing the heading for number five to historical context.

[01:07:36] - Dr. Anderson, do you have more comments? - I mean, I appreciate what the JET did, but we don't really offer historical context in these documents per se.

[01:07:52] I think it's okay to let it go because even the language that we have here, It's not even, the JET provides a forum or collaboration in alignment. It's not providing anything right now. It's no longer a functioning committee. I think it's perfectly okay because we have the JET show up in so many other places up to when all of the, all of their recommendations were adopted.

[01:08:17] I don't think it lives in the policy per se. So I actually, I don't know if we, I don't see the utility at all for that kind of history lesson here. - Okay, doctors, that concludes your comments for now.

[01:08:36] Okay, Ms. St. John Cunning. - So for me, first of all, I don't think it should be responsibilities. I agree with this, but for me, this informs what comes down below it. I know what you're saying, like the JET doesn't exist, but what this policy is saying that as we move forward with, you know, you go down to the other points, carbon neutrality, everything, that what we wanna be looking at is we wanna be looking at how we can reach these goals of environmental sustainability, which is transportation, capital improvement, recycling.

[01:09:14] It kind of gives you the big umbrella, and then we get a little bit more specific. So to me, it's informational for someone that's reading this and looking at it. It's kind of giving an overall direction, and then we get into the specifics of the Green Globes carbon neutrality classroom environment.

[01:09:38] I find it valuable. I'm just putting my two cents in saying that that helps me understand and it's giving a direction. - Thank you, I'll go ahead and take another turn.

[01:09:54] So I suggest that under philosophy, we add a sentence that says this policy is driven by the jet work that concluded in this year and is embedded throughout the document. name so that people know exactly and then perhaps we remove JET because as you I mean you always say right it's our goals it's not the directive it's like it is what it is so that's my suggestion is the work is you by the work of you know or is guided or is you know that's well could this work is driven by the adopted recommendations of the Joint Environmental Task Force parentheses JET

[01:10:32] which concluded its work in July yeah we could even did we have a vote a formal vote yeah so we could cite that this way people it was it's dated in the part in July okay great I think that would be really great the other thing is I like that this policy has all the topics in it but it's really about facilities management and so when it gets to talking about transportation and school-based environmental action as much as I love that stuff it's not

[01:11:07] really here that it should be and workforce development as well now alternatively I actually am really interested in updating our instructional policy our curriculum whatever the policy is to add more of that in so I'm okay to include it for now because I'd rather have it than not but it's um it's not exactly on point but so I welcome your thoughts so I guess I am proposing that that summary of jet go into that philosophy section and then I am asking

[01:11:44] for and then we remove we change responsibilities it's got to be something more about the superintendent will do this or we don't have one responsibility section but that content has to go away and then I'm okay with I asked for your input on whether to keep all those different sections and then also then second question is do we just remove the reference to the jet for the rest of the policy so mr. Frisch and the dr. Anderson so I support the change made for the philosophy and eliminating responsibilities because it no longer

[01:12:22] serves a purpose in the policy there in terms of the other things that are iterated throughout I think we keep those until we change elsewhere and you know part of the reason that these things are in there is because previously the departments were one, right, facilities and transportation, and I think for ease of use, the policy is called sustainability and environmental stewardship, so they've included other things that relate to environmental stewardship, and that's always going to be the rub as a policymaker is, okay, well, if something is environmental stewardship, do we

[01:12:59] now need five policies because everything has a piece of it, and if that's the case, do we want to amend five policies every time we have a change? So we can decide that it is appropriate to include these things in this policy because it is more over overarching but this is one of those policies that is far more detailed than the typical policy as well when they are very detailed is when they could easily be broken up into pieces for different policies but those pieces wouldn't live alone either they'd likely end up in other other policies so it gets complicated really quickly and it doesn't have to necessarily okay thank Thank you.

[01:13:39] I have comments. Dr. Anderson, first. Yes, very quickly, I think under -- you know, I still go back to what I shared a little bit earlier. I think these can be grouped a little bit differently, and I was starting to do that and I didn't have enough time.

[01:13:54] Carbon neutrality, green globes, building and classroom environment, indoor quality, transportation water management grounds and landscaping practices watershed management get to green those are very different activities or different things components than workforce development then purchasing and performance measures as they are listed they come across as kind of listing that are the same thing so I'd like for that consideration under carb carbon neutrality the first

[01:14:31] sentence that starts with FCPS is committed to the overarching goal of being carbon neutral one I think our commitments have been living under philosophy and I definitely support what you've provided in terms of moving all that jet language and under philosophy and I don't think we need to have jet here again jet gold the jet goals no longer exist once FCPS adopted it once the school board adopted it we have school board goals that were based upon

[01:15:06] JET but JET no longer exists so I think we need to remove JET from here and also consider the commitment moving under philosophy but I'm not that's not a hill to die on I I guess I'm trying to find the language that speaks to what is it that we're going to accomplish or require and that starts with you know to supplement to have measures to achieve carbon neutrality by 2040 and then what it means should we have a definition section that's also a wondering because

[01:15:46] some of these are kind of a little bit more technical than others I would love to have a definition section that speaks about carbon neutrality rather than having to be embedded in the body of direction to the superintendent I'll just - So can I make a recommendation?

[01:16:08] It would be such a huge thing to be able to pass this policy. Like it's been two years in the making and it would just be like next level, you know? So I'm wondering this, can we move forward with the changes we talked about, the change in the philosophy to recognize JET, keeping JET in there for now, move it to the board, and we're gonna be talking about the CIP.

[01:16:30] We can adjust this policy at the dais. It's a great time to do that work, but can we get it out of this committee so that it can be in consideration and see the light of day? And I also do just wanna say, we have 45 minutes left. I do wanna be sure we get to the HR policies because our chief has been sitting here.

[01:16:47] So I don't know if I, he was sitting here. He's just went out. But so I don't know if I can't make the motion, but I would make the motion to move this policy with the change. - Miss Madam, I do just wanna note that I recommend we change the summary of changes to this policy has been changed in its entirety, which is what we normally do and we have such big changes like this.

[01:17:12] - Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, that would be, I agree with that. Yes, Mr. Frisch. So what we did without objection, the change in the philosophy.

[01:17:27] So the motion, Mr. Frisch is that motion. Can I second it? I'll second it. Well, let's share, I don't know. Do you wanna speak?

[01:17:43] I already have, anyone else? Let's pass the policy. All in favor? Oh, we're in favor. Opposed? Go green. Yeah, I'm gonna call Elaine. Okay, all right, just one second here.

[01:18:11] So colleagues, just to do a time check here, we're doing great. So we have got four more CIP policies, okay? And we have a few HR policies. Does anyone have top of mind the HR policies, things that they definitely wanna talk about?

[01:18:32] My understanding is that they were pretty straightforward. So do we maybe just, and I know Mr. Solomon is headed back here, but do we just wanna take few minutes switch gears go to HR because I wouldn't want to have had him oh it's my party okay so without objection if we could just switch gears look over the items and agenda item 1.05 oh there's a lot okay madam deputy clerk can you remind us actually can you remind us which of the

[01:19:10] HR policies we've already looked at and I see if you look on board Docs colleagues it'll say the versions with Carl's edits which were about philosophies and correct okay so mr solomon we're just looking over those policies to see to remind ourselves what we've seen before because we wouldn't want you have to been here in vain all night so so let's just take a few minutes and get our

[01:19:34] bearings and but we did look at some of these at a committee prior though a committee meeting prior didn't we we did so all seven have been reviewed at a prior governance committee correct yeah mr. Frisch brought up so all seven have edits from mr. Frisch mr. Frisch brought up the edits and said does everyone agree with these and we bring them back to a later meeting and and and put them

[01:20:14] through and everyone said yes and so that's why they're here right so the bulk of these so again we wanted to be sure at some point in the past that all of these held up with the collective bargaining now in place and I think we

[01:20:29] had questions about why some were being addressed in others let me take 41 20 is

[01:21:05] up. So I would propose that we go through each of the versions that have Carl's philosophy edits as well as they have edits of other things there. I just saw one that had quite a few because we had asked about why some policies call it operational policies. We do also want to be sure that we're not referencing the chief as we had already discussed tonight. We're just going to represent talk about the superintendent in our policies so those will have to be done. Thank you.

[01:21:35] Okay, so we're going to start, sure, okay, so Dr. Anderson, we'll start with 4120, right, Dr. Anderson? Yes? Yep, 4120. Under philosophy, I'd like to add the Fairfax County School Board recognizes that.

[01:21:51] Again, trying to be consistent with the language of the others. That's it. And then I'm happy to move it. Okay, and Mr. Fresh, I'm okay with that. So can we just, sure.

[01:22:23] so can we just articulate exactly what we expect will be changed so we are articulating that second so for the HR policies removal of reference to any staff other well any designee so it will just reference the superintendent if there's any cleanup to the philosophy language that says it is the statement

[01:22:59] of that it will be changed to the Fairfax County School Board shall adhere recognizes believes and I will send that stock starter language as well okay of course the formatting and the order is checked other things that we would give the clerks the flexibility the order I did yes I did just say that yes the order of the section is checked and if there is a discrepancy so let's say we

[01:23:34] give this approval now and the clerks have a question how do we want to we actually have a governance committee meeting coming up very fairly soon but hopefully that would only happen like one yeah it's the 20th we have a January 20th January 20th okay you could reach out to me but like am I I don't know that I'm empowered to make a substantive decision well what we can do is these will be on new business for one eight so we can put them on new business for one eight if we have any questions we can ask at the top of 120 so that they are and have them ready for consent or action for 122 that way we can keep the

[01:24:13] trains moving if that works that's okay with me so are there any other particular comments specific to a thing and I for me I want to just reiterate I want to be sure that nothing in here was contrary to collective bargaining so there are some things in here that still surprised me but you know just procedures for suspension or under 4270 in terms of their topic not what's in

[01:24:48] them but just that but I'm okay with it it's been vetted as I think it gets back to that question of you know do we have to say it directly you know who's the designee or not like I don't know it's just kind of in that area but it's I am

[01:25:22] clear about it okay I'm just looking through them one more time 4411 so like for instance in 4411 it says general duties so that would have to match up with responsibilities I just want to make that

[01:25:56] under protections mr. Foster should we have any references to the collective bargaining under protections for 4411 do you have it in front of you you can move

[01:26:34] the document further along thank you it says on request on request the school board shall make available legal counsel to advise employees of his or her rights and obligations I'm just wondering like does collective bargaining live here and if so how right I think that you know this document stands on its own I would not recommend that we start cross-referencing the collective bargaining

[01:27:04] agreement and I think it's fine as is mr. Frisch correct me if I'm wrong mr. foster but the collective bargaining agreement has language about being in compliance with school board policy and regulations so that gives us a catch-all I think where we'd have to worry about policy is anything that undermines the ability of employees related to their bargaining so things about discipline or

[01:27:41] or whatnot, our policy, and if they wanted, they could try and bargain changes, and the superintendent would come to us as part of the collective bargaining process and say they would like to bargain for a change to this policy as part of their agreement, and then the board would have to update the policy if that ended up being something that was included in the policy.

[01:28:07] - Thank you, Mr. Frisch, good reminder. Ms. St. John Cunning. - So I don't have a problem with this this is a very specific to us as a school system being responsible to job related assault and battery against an employee I mean it's that's what it's talking about it's not talking about other us providing legal counsel for other things it's very specific to like providing that like workplace if they get assaulted and something in our school system I don't know how this I mean I'm sure it fits somewhere into collective bargaining but this is us

[01:28:46] taking some ownership of that is that correct I don't know I'm just I don't understand the legalese about it but it's kind of like saying that if you're a teacher and you know somebody comes in which I have seen somebody comes and pops you that they're we're gonna provide them legal counsel and they have to press charges against assault and battery because it's a very specific to

[01:29:08] job-related assault and battery yes it is very specific so I agree I mean clearly we've all been here long enough to know that when something happens we tend to dump it into the policy is this something that we need to be this specific because there are other things that could happen to employees besides assault and battery for which we should be

[01:29:43] supporting them i guess mr foster i'm looking to you to share why is this here is there a code that is specific to assault and battery because there are other circumstances that we would need to provide the same support and assistance i don't know the reason why i mean if there's a specific incident from years ago that prompted the policy I just don't know I'm sitting here I was going to pull up the Virginia code section to see if there's any reference in there because this is speaking to something I was talking with

[01:30:18] dr. Reed about this morning if an employee is is under what's that it's in my email yeah you but if an employee is is being part of a lawsuit and the regular course of their duties then they're protected which is what's on the back page here which I wish I had remembered that that was here I don't know this just seems very specific and maybe there's other circumstances we

[01:30:54] could be broadening this language to cover mr. first did you have yes so the the Virginia code section does authorize as the policy provides for legal fees to be paid right yeah so I there is a certainly a Virginia code basis for what's outlined in the policy but not necessarily speaking to assault and that's the Virginia code section is broader it's broader should we and

[01:31:31] should we have broader language because there could be some other things that are happening to employees beyond assault and battery for which we need to provide protection as this is labeled right it that really is a decision for the board and the updating of its policy I think the code provides the board the ability to do that whether you want to do that is up to you I mean I kind of think we should do we have any VSBA language here to consider I don't think

[01:32:04] we do for this one I mean I'd like to he says it's broader I don't know can you read what the code says? Ms. St. John Cunning just asked. If an employee of a school board is arrested, indicted, or otherwise prosecuted on any charge arising out of any act committed in the discharge of his duties as such employee and such charge is subsequently dismissed or a verdict of not guilty is rendered or if an employee of a school board is made a defendant in any civil action arising out of his actions and connections with his duties as such employee, the school board

[01:32:42] may pay the legal fees and expenses of such employee so that speaks to what's on the back page it doesn't speak to the assault and battery specifically is it something that we want to consider not having because it is so specific or to just have language that we shall make available legal counsel like under what are the circumstances would we provide legal counsel if an employee is in some sort of circumstance in the course of their duties i just think we need to be closer

[01:33:20] to the code language i think i would agree with being closer to the code language i also like providing protections and writing to the staff so is it clear what language we could put in now or does that need to be developed it would have to be developed what remind me what number that is please 44 11. for the board's consideration one thing i would share is if you're considering broadening that language remember the scope is narrow right now so i might advise costing out what it would look like to expand the scope i don't want to expand it i just want to make it

[01:33:57] a little bit more high level because mr solomon perhaps you're aware or perhaps you know this is very specific as miss central cunning talked about with assault and battery like those will not be the only two things for which we provide protections to staff there could be some other circumstance do we have to be that narrow uh that's a good question so as mr foster shared uh the code is broader and allow school systems to be broader however I would advise taking a look at and considering the financial implications of doing so so you're

[01:34:35] saying it's cheaper to just do assault and battery I'm saying that it's in addition to the cost it's also a good idea to look at the divisions risk tolerance and make a decision from there and the protections that we're providing is legal counsel so if you could juxtapose that with what's on the back page with mr. which mr. foster just talked about regarding and their regular course of duty that we can provide legal counsel and reimbursements I don't know if you said reimbursements and what you read from the code that

[01:35:10] could be anything outside of assault and battery so we already have to as per code even though it may be more costly to us mr. foster doesn't the code say may and this is shall so I will note that but the policy says shall and the code says may so I guess I'd like to better understand why should we why must we provide supports on adult on adult on a softened battery but may everywhere else

[01:35:44] and then I'll stop I'm not aware of any Virginia code requirement that mandates a school board to provide legal counsel to advise an employee of his rights and obligations with respect I'm just reading from the policy I'm not seeing anything in the Virginia code that mandates that as the clerk noted it's a may not a shall mr. Frisch all right I'm going to try and make sense of the

[01:36:22] conversation we just had mr. Foster correct me if I'm wrong but what you all are saying is that the state says here are the many things that you may cover and we looked at that and we said of those things that we may cover we will

[01:36:41] cover this one so we shall cover this one and so we are in doing that saving ourselves of the potential litigation expense or risk as mr solomon described it of all of the other things that were

[01:37:10] in the may category in the state code is that correct yes does that make sense dr anderson yes all right so state code says here are the many things that you may cover we look at that list and we've said we will cover or we shall cover this one in doing so we are only taking on the risk the cost of this one thing and we are therefore saying we will not take on the risk

[01:37:46] or cost of all of the other things that the state says that we can take on that's why we say shall and they say may at the state level if we wanted to cover all of the many things or four of the the many things that the state code says that we can but are not required to cover. To Mr. Solomon's point, he's advising that we simply have a good understanding of what the risk threshold change means potentially from a financial perspective. So if I allow you to destroy one record from my

[01:38:25] collection, there's a value to that one record. If I allow you to destroy my entire collection, there's a bigger value to what I've lost. So we just, I think the idea is if we expand it beyond or if we say may or follow the state language to a T and say shall do all these things, then we're taking on a bigger risk financially. And Mr. Solomon is advising that if we do that, we should know what that risk is before we do it. I imagine when the initial school board developed this policy, they were saying we are comfortable taking on the risk of this one type

[01:39:02] of thing that we will cover if an employee needs that coverage. And we, in essence, are not comfortable taking on the risk of all of these other things. Thank you. Just one more thing, Mr. Foster, where it says here that the board shall make available legal counsel to advise, would that be up to representation in court? Or I will sit with you and give you a consultation and you go forward and do whatever you need to.

[01:39:43] It doesn't say up to and including representing the employee in court. It talks about advising of rights and obligations. And so I think in light of the express language that's there, I think a reasonable interpretation would be that it is for the purposes of advising but could be read to not require representation in court.

[01:40:10] - Okay, so if it's advising, that means you'll just pretty much, it's a consultation, it's a conversation. - Correct.

[01:40:27] - I am uncomfortable with this, thank you though. - Ms. St. John-Cunning. - And I don't know if anybody here would know the answer to this, like in terms of collective bargaining, like I'm thinking if I'm an employee and something happens, like if I would go to my union to help them help me with whatever's happening, like this happening, I was working at a school, you know, maybe it was maybe it was a student maybe it was another employee that did this to me like is and i don't know if anybody in here has the answer with collective bargaining if the union provides

[01:41:01] the support is this like a double support type of thing i i don't know is step for writing an answer so and good evening everyone i i would say that this is a situation where the employee could go to the union may not necessarily go to the union but always has the ability all employees regardless of their membership status with the union are covered

[01:41:36] by the protections of the union so they could go to the union but they wouldn't necessarily have to miss lady did you want to just for clarification that's different from pre-collective bargaining unit agreement because before we had the agreement you had to be a member of the it wasn't a union well, we didn't have a CBA, right? We didn't have the CBA, and I think that for our previous

[01:42:10] associations, that was always a way for them to build their membership, was to offer some type of insurance coverage, while at the same time, Fairfax County would also offer that same kind of protection. But I know that at the time, it was the associations used it as a way to highlight additional insurance and it wasn't only the teacher associations but the principal associations and administrators did this provided the same coverages additional coverages but now there's a CBA if someone's not a member of the Union they would still be represented because of the CBA but if

[01:42:49] they chose to go to the Union they would have the ability to have some kind of coverage okay okay thank you so dr. Anderson did you have one quick follow-up question to what was said we have and I heard what you said mr. Smith if I'm a teacher I'm not in the union because the teachers are in a union group I will get the same coverage what if I am a an employee that is not part of a group that is represented what protections are provided to those kinds of

[01:43:25] employees i i'm just asking mr smith so the only employees who aren't covered are our hourly employees so hourly employees outside of those employees with no benefits all employees who had benefits are covered by a union here in fairfax county so the second p the part on the second page of this document that says if an employee is engaged in the course of their duty and something

[01:43:59] occurs those individuals will not be part of any coverage of any protections correct an hourly employee and as it states here though on request the school board shall make available that council if requested but if an hourly employee requested there they will get a note from the union no from us I guess I'm

[01:44:30] asking from us because of that second part I just want to do a time check here is there something that is very specific that you could ask to be delivered to you or to us for this policy and can we move on the other policies either without this one or we'll take a vote on an ombuds for all of them and then again it can be always addressed at the dais

[01:45:08] so dr did you have any question you wanted to get and put on or questions i just i'm not sure if they're being answered and I don't want to hold up any more time so that's a lot of questions on this okay well well thank you so do we want to do an ombuds on the bus on all of these HR policies to send them forward is there objection to doing all of these HR policies okay there's objection so we'll do them I

[01:45:42] I wonder if with all but 4411 okay so we're gonna do an omnibus for all policies except for 4411 let's get let's get this together that's okay once the

[01:46:15] clerks have some language we will move forward if you are waiting if you wanted to take a look at the four remaining policies under 1.04 are there any that are short that you think you could approve if you're waiting with nothing else to do I've seen what we're waiting for the clerk back to agenda item 1.0 for the CIP changes those policy related changes of the four remaining that we haven't discussed this evening are there any that are sort of quick to be able to

[01:46:52] do maybe not okay okay so there is a motion on the board it's for action item 1.05 HR related policies would anyone like to make a motion miss st. John

[01:47:31] Cunningham will move the motion a second mr. Frisch miss Tina Cunningham would like to speak to the motion no mr. Frisch no all in favor of the governance committee moving all of the HR related policies except policy 4411 operational employee obligations and rights together as an omnibus motion as revised to the full board for adoption all in favor we have a unanimous vote for yes for that action okay and then we will vote separately for policy 4411 support employee obligations and rights is there a motion to move that if mr. Frisch a

[01:48:10] second I can second it mr. Frisch any comments I have no comments any other comments okay so the motion that the Governance Committee sends policy 4411 support employee obligations and rights is revised to the full board for adoption all in favor mr. Frisch miss lady missing John Cunning and myself

[01:48:36] opposed dr. Anderson okay well done guys well done folks gals people okay so my We've got 12 minutes.

[01:48:56] Thank you, Mr. Solomon and Mr. Foster. Okay, long time coming, woohoo. Okay, looping back to agenda item. I'm sorry, Dr. Anderson, what number was it again? Tell me, 8320, Dr. Anderson suggests that 8320 is perhaps fairly innocuous, 8320, is it not innocuous?

[01:49:26] Oh, 8320, so it's been revised to add a philosophy and responsibility statement.

[01:49:48] a reminder we've collectively pre accepted the formatting and stylistic changes are we okay with the philosophy it starts a different way but oh that's gonna be okay so with that formatting okay so is there a motion to move policy 8320 like okay Ms. St. John Cunning 8320 second I can second it or your second

[01:50:22] Ms. Lady? Okay, great. Ms. St. John Cunningham, would like to speak to your motion? Ms. Lady? Mr. Frisch, did you have something? I think this is really exciting. That's long to say. All right, we're going to call the question. All those in favor of the motion to send policy 8320, site and building acquisition, wait a minute, 8320, correct? Yes. Because we do have an 8230. Now I get it, ms brown okay 8320 site and building acquisition to the board for consideration all those in favor

[01:50:59] we are unanimous here to move policy 8320 site and building acquisition okay all right any other ones you think that we could do leasing for school facilities 80 82 30 are you being serious 80 okay 82 30. in essence the only thing that we need to fix in this are things that we've already said stylistically would be changed yes cool design right so it would remove number five and again I have captured all those and I will send them once I can just do

[01:51:37] a final read-through superintendent reference I mean we've all mm-hmm I also do think that once we get all these through right our intentions had always been let's get these approved and then we could look at them again holistically especially for this one knowing that we had done the procurement one recently like it feeds into this one okay is there a motion to send policy 82 30 forward mr frisch sends the motion this is for 82 30 school design mr frisch moves is there a

[01:52:12] second dr anderson would either of you like to speak to your motion no okay so we have the motion to send policy 82 30 school design as revised to the full board for adoption all in favor it's unanimous okay gosh this might be a record okay leasing we have 8410 and 8310 let's take a quick look. Mr. Frisch, which one? 8410. It looks like more redlining, but it really isn't a substantive

[01:52:49] matter. The one that caught my eye was, no, this is not the one that I was thinking of, but this one is similar. They're basically just removing superfluous text and tightening up language here there I don't see a need to delete this one at all other than the stylistic changes we've been talking about thank you dr. Anderson question should I be

[01:53:20] viewing this differently if it's in blue versus red I will say again the community use policy does have implications to this so again it will be nice to have this cleaned up for that any other comments on 8410 no do I have motion to send this forward mr frisch moves to move policy uh 8410 forward to the school board

[01:53:54] a second miss lady any comments from the motion makers no any comments from other members uh mr frisch moved and ms lady seconded all those in favor of sending 8410 leasing for school facilities to the board we got a unanimous 8310 let's try 8310 site planning and development mr frisch all - All right, so the only thing that sticks out in this one is under landscaping, and that we're removing the PTA,

[01:54:33] local garden clubs, et cetera, et cetera. But I have heard from various principals about things that have been unintentionally destroyed. There were some kids gardening activities that were kind of plowed over, so I get that.

[01:54:51] And that's not to say that these groups are not being invited in. There are many volunteers that help the kids with their school gardens. So it's not to say that they're not engaged in the school community anymore. I think it's just being a little bit more specific about what's allowed and what's not.

[01:55:06] Other than that, the only other big substantive change is that they've changed the acreage for middle and high and added the senior high or combined school.

[01:55:23] everything else either points to the guidelines or adds the philosophy, so I'm fine with it. - Okay, Dr. Harrison. - Yes, and this is speaking about size.

[01:55:40] So would it be a good assumption, I guess Mr. Smith, I'm not sure if you have this information, Dr. Reed, that when sites such as Bailey's Upper that do not meet the acreage requirement, that it would go through this waiver process to the board itself, 'cause Bailey's Upper is not 4.5 acres.

[01:56:13] - We approve the school. - Yeah, you do approve, and we do a school. I'm sorry, which paragraph are you referring to? - Paragraph that speaks to size number four.

[01:56:29] - Five, new five. - Oh, okay, yes, new five. - It's got that basic acreage. - Any requests for waiver or requirement minimum size shall be approved by the school board. - So we're approving living outside of what's provided here.

[01:56:50] Thank you. - I will say, as much as I wanna have a full set of all these things done on our agenda, there's a few things in here, again, looking with the facility lens, like landscaping the new sea, talks about artificial turf will be installed on stadium fields wherever possible.

[01:57:08] And this is a big sticking point for community use, and there's a budgetary aspect, and I know there's other options the superintendent's looking into. I also wonder if landscaping, what we're really talking about is the planning of the landscaping, not the upkeep of it, which is what Mr. Frisch was really talking about, that once it's installed, ensuring that staff know not to take things out that are, so I don't know, I need more than three minutes to kind of think this one over, but I'm also okay to send it forward and work on it for the CIP discussion.

[01:57:43] Those are my hesitations. Mr. Frisch, did you have a comment? - Yeah, I can envision if there's a need for a change around, first of all, the term artificial turf is agnostic to the type of artificial turf, right?

[01:57:59] So thankfully, because I think since we've been on the board, we've gone through two iterations of the types of things that we value. So I think that provides a lot of flexibility to staff around what is used. I think the point there is, even with the expense, upkeep of athletic facilities on non-artificial turf can be quite expensive.

[01:58:21] And it's also not necessarily as safe. So it's one of the reasons that we do artificial turf. So I agree with you that if this was being prescriptive to the type of turf, for example, we've replaced many of the football stadium turf with basically professional grade used by the NFL as part of that pilot.

[01:58:40] If we were saying that is what you must use, I would probably want something a little bit more broad, but it's pretty broad. It's just saying that we will use artificial. - Thank you for that. Are you guys, did you have any comments? No, Ms. St. John Cunning.

[01:58:58] - And just specifically to the artificial turf, I just wanna add that that's an equity issue. I remember there was a time when, you know, on my side of the county, there were several fields that didn't have artificial turfs and the football team really felt less than and other team members would make fun of them as less than.

[01:59:15] I am not a football player, I don't know what is better to play on, but I do know how the community and the students felt about that. So to me, it becomes an equity issue that it should be, you know, throughout our entire division, it should be the same because those kids, like they would be called in the huddle West poor for not having artificial turf.

[01:59:39] So we can't have kids feeling that way. - Okay, Dr. Anderson. - Given what was just said, this does not speak to that equity because this says artificial turf will be artificial turf will be installed on stadium fields wherever possible which will continue what you've just talked about should it be the expectation again I'm just right but this says wherever possible if all of them are done should we be striking wherever possible is it our basic expectation then if it is we need to strike that I'll just say that goes to there is a debate about that I

[02:00:18] I think, from what I understand from facilities, but do you want to speak in 7:29, so just check it in. Maybe we can go a few more minutes if you want to try and nip this, but. - Types of, I think they're trying to be economical in their verbiage because there are lots of types of athletic fields, it's not just football fields, right?

[02:00:37] So. - It says stadium fields, so those would not be, you know, your regular playground fields, stadium fields would be, to me, speaking where you're playing your football, soccer, lacrosse.

[02:00:53] That's where it's played. It's played on the football fields. But there's, yeah. - There, Gordon, what does stadium field mean to you? - I would look at it and to include all fields, I would practice fields as well.

[02:01:10] I mean, it says stadium. If you wanna be prescriptive and say stadium, fine. I would look at it from a aspect of practice, but we're not, we don't have artificial turf on all of our practice fields as well, right? So.

[02:01:27] - I just would like to offer, this is one of those examples I think Mr. Frisch, you pointed out, so this was last reviewed in 2013, which was also when the turf allocation agreement was last reviewed that is starting to be under review now. So again, I do wonder, just given the hour, should we just put this aside for now and come back?

[02:01:46] - I know, we're so close. - I have one suggestion that might fix it. - Okay, all right. - Because we're being more prescriptive with the word stadium, I think we get max flexibility by taking out the word stadium, because now it's then saying all fields wherever possible.

[02:02:02] And that could include stadiums, it could also include, there are other facilities that have turf fields that are not part of the stadium. - But that doesn't resolve the issue. The issue is, are we going to put artificial turf in some places and not in others?

[02:02:17] - But we have policies that do address that. We have an overreaching equity policy. - Right, so it's not wherever possible. That is our expectation. I think where I would like to have the delineation is that it's on the main fields and not necessarily in the practice fields. And I don't even know if that matters, because the reason why we're doing this is for a health issue.

[02:02:37] And yes, I know we've said before grass is best, but some of these are really good. I don't know if that resolves the question that I have, because what I don't want it to be is wherever possible, and it's possible in these places and not possible in these places, meaning not types of field, but where the schools are located.

[02:02:59] - Well, that's what I'm getting is we have an equity policy that would say that that is in violation. A choice made like that would not be in alignment with our equity policy. - So then do we need the language that says wherever possible? - I think you do because of two reasons. One, some sports you wouldn't do this to.

[02:03:15] And number two, there might be a physical limitation. For example, when we talk about net zero schools, not every school can be truly net zero because it might not be able to have a thermal well or some other kind of physical limitation. So they have to have some flexibility.

[02:03:32] What we're basically saying here is when possible, do this. - So what are we, let's see, we're one away. Do we want to modify the, remove the word stadium?

[02:03:52] Again, we can work on this and bring the change to the board, right? We're so close, so I'm gonna go for it. Let's go for it. - Can I make a motion to strike the word stadium and adopt the motion? - I'll second that motion.

[02:04:10] So it's not rushed. We've been trying to do this for two years. I mean, and the CIP is coming up, so this is such a great time to be rethinking this over. So Mr. Frisch has moved that the word stadium be struck from whatever section that is, and that the board committee send policy 8310 site planning and development as revised to the full board for adoption.

[02:04:41] So let's make sure that that motion is accurate. Right, but this one, Mr. Frisch made one more motion to remove the word stadium, which is not part of the, so do we want to agree, is there objection to removing stadium without objection?

[02:04:57] Dr. Anderson, do you object to that, to removing the word stadium? Okay, so without objection, we will remove the word stadium. You don't need to put in motion, thank you, Madam Clerk. Okay, motion.

[02:05:13] Did you make the motion? Mr. Frisch made it, and who seconded it? I did. The Governance Committee, the Governance Committee sends policy 8310, site planning and development as revised to the full board for adoption. Moved by Mr. Frisch, seconded by me, no comments.

[02:05:29] All those in favor? Mr. Frisch, myself, Ms. Lady, Ms. St. John Cunning, those opposed, Dr. Anderson. So it moves forward to the board 4-1. And with that, oh-- - Ms. Marin, really quickly, I just wanna note based on what you're saying with the CIPs, it sounds like for the CIP policies, we should reserve, since the CIP, I believe, is on action for 2-12, so for the CIP policies, it seems like we should put those on action or consent for 2:12 since that would be all the conversation or do you still want it all on 1:22 based on the comments I'm hearing?

[02:06:06] We just want clarity. That is one clarity question. - I think the governance chair should work with the chair and vice chair to schedule appropriately. It gives you time to actually think it through. My choice would be before we do CIP so that it's hammered out and done before we actually engage in the actual vote.

[02:06:22] Having these, if there is gonna be debate on the same night as CIP is only asking for a late meeting. - Yeah, I see both sides, but it's gonna come down to I think a practicality thing too. Okay, so I will work with our chair and vice chair to schedule. Just real quick for our next governance committee meeting, we've heard a lot from our public about the calendar being problematic or just wondering how they can provide input in the board also has talked about it.

[02:06:48] So, I'm sorry. So we were gonna talk about that. That was something we could talk about. and also AI, the superintendent has an AI policy that she would like to bring in draft, very timely.

[02:07:09] And then the third thing, gosh, I can't remember now, there was a third thing, just one second. We were meeting again on January 20th, so very full. - Thank you everybody for agreeing to move the timing of these meetings, by the way.

[02:07:25] - Yes, and oh, and we had a policy from October 14th, it was agenda item 3.05, 6860, about broadcasting curricular and extracurricular events. So that would bring us up to speed with everything we've discussed so far, and then we could go back to that list we looked at, I think, in June, when Ms. Lady was chair of the committee, and then get the next slew of things, okay?

[02:07:49] So we'll confirm the agenda. Please continue to give input, but we'll turn that around. So go governance. All right, we are adjourned at 7:37 p.m. Thank you.

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