Coraggio Consulting
Hanover County Board of Supervisors Meeting - Special Budget Work Session (2:00 pm) and Regular Meeting (6:00 pm), Wednesday, March 26, 2025

Date: Wednesday, March 26, 2025
Place: Hanover County Board of Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 5h 59m (video)
Official meeting video (CivicClerk): https://hanovercova.portal.civicclerk.com/event/1376/media
Official agenda (CivicClerk): https://hanovercova.api.civicclerk.com/v1/Meetings/GetMeetingFileStream(fileId=3623,plainText=false)
Official minutes (CivicClerk): https://hanovercova.api.civicclerk.com/v1/Meetings/GetMeetingFileStream(fileId=3737,plainText=false)

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-25. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[00:05:45] It is now 2.01 p.m. and I call the March 26, 2025 Hanover County Board of Supervisors meeting to order. First, an announcement that Sean Davis is out of town. He will not be with us today.

[00:06:02] Mr. Stoneman will be filling in for today only as our vice chair for today's meeting. Next, as is customary, we will have an invocation led by Mr. Ryan Hudson, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance, led by Supervisor Dibble.

[00:06:20] Mr. Hudson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. If you'd bow with me, please. Our most gracious Heavenly Father, we humbly come before you and ask you to be in our midst. Give us purity of heart and clarity of mind as we go about the people's work. Be with all those in positions of leadership across our land as they go about their decision-making.

[00:06:39] We thank you for this great nation, our commonwealth, and our beloved Hanover County. Watch over us all as we go about our daily lives and place a hedge of protection over those who respond to those in need. We thank you for your Son, Jesus Christ, in whose name we pray. Amen.

[00:06:55] Amen. Please rise with me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[00:07:17] Well, thank you, Mr. Hudson, and thank you, Supervisor Dibble. next considerations of amendments to the agenda mr stoneman thank you mr chair i would like to motion that we add to our agenda day today after item number six that we will enter into closed session in order to discuss a candidate for employment at the deputy county administrator position second there is a motion and a second all in favor of amending the agenda as described

[00:07:55] in the motion please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed none agenda has been amended next agenda item three comment period i will begin by recognizing our sheriff good to see you with us today sir thank you very much for being here also i would like to take the time to remind anyone who's interested in serving on the hanover county school board for the cold harbor district or the south Anna district residency is required we will be receiving nominations at the

[00:08:30] public hearing on April the 9th at 6:00 p.m. I believe by the end of the business day today there will be an interest form available for those who would like to fill that out would like to be considered to serve on the Hanover County government website today an interest form is required no later than public hearing to be considered so staff has time to make sure that individuals who are interested do in fact reside in either the cold harbor district or the south anna district that concludes

[00:09:07] my comments for today any other comments from any other board members okay seeing none mr bedesky thank you mr chair just a few comments today and to further your comments mr chair the the form is up on our website as we speak and so people interested parties can begin applying today and just to emphasize that april 9th public hearing is required if individuals want their name on the record either they or someone on their behalf must put their name on the record on april 9th we look forward to receiving those submissions today we will

[00:09:47] continue our budget work it's been an ongoing process today's work session is just another step in that process we will hear today further discussion on budget amendments capital projects and other issues outstanding to the board next wednesday april 2nd at 6 pm in this board room will be the formal budget public hearing we invite all of our residents to participate in the budget public hearing with adoption consideration on april 9th do want to share that on just this week

[00:10:23] we opened some new exhibits at our museum we were honored to be selected as the initial host site of the traveling 250th museum here at the hanover museum on our campus and also have introduced a new historic exhibit related to the brown grove community that's that's opened and to the public this week so we encourage everyone to take the opportunity to get by and see that a couple upcoming events i want to share as soon as may 20th at our community development committee meeting

[00:11:00] we will continue our work on the henry clay elementary school repurposing and share more of the work that's been done with our community and thoughts and perspectives on how we'll move that project forward wanted to share that today april 8th is our hanover county spirit of volunteerism award ceremony this is an amazing evening if you want to feel good about some amazing people in our community it's open to the public please join us at 7 30 p.m on april 8th there's a reception prior to that but we welcome so many of our community that's given back in so

[00:11:37] many different ways also now registration is open for our seventh annual finding value in your prime activity this is may 15th from 8 30 a.m to 1 p.m at fairmont christian church this is always one of the the great events that we do in partnership with our commission on aging and other folks in our community that serve our our senior population i did want to also share that we're very proud to announce that our very own parks and rec director aaron reidmiller today at 6 p.m

[00:12:12] and will miss our meeting is being recognized by richmond region tourism for being an rva champion aaron played a huge role in recruiting the virginia recreation and park society annual conference to come to the richmond convention center in 2026. the region has not hosted this event since 2010 and congratulate aaron on that and and well deserved mr chair that's all i have this afternoon thank you mr brideski supervisor dibble thank you so much i just want to give a

[00:12:45] big shout out to miss tory goodson who's a student at atlee i believe is anybody out in the student in atlee who is a national champion in the girls hurdles national champion i mean i'd love to have her here so if we could work to get her here i'd love to have her as our guest at one of our meetings because this is superior so tori i know you're not watching but we're thinking about you

[00:13:20] so i hope your ears are burning bravo girl well thank you for sharing that supervisor dibble any other comments from other board members seeing none we will close agenda item three we will now go to agenda item four citizens time citizens time is a time for citizens to address the board on any matter under the board's authority is there anyone here who wishes to speak at citizens time today please raise your hand seeing none we will now close citizen time agenda item

[00:13:54] five is the consent agenda mr. Stoneman okay thank you mr. chair I'd like to make a motion that we approve the consent agenda all in favor of approving the consent agenda please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed none the consent agenda has been amended we will next move on to agenda item six fiscal

[00:14:30] year 2026 budget work session ms shelley wright has some information for us thank you very much

[00:14:37] ma'am thank you mr chairman all right thank you for the record my name is shelley wright i'm the

[00:15:19] budget division director and today i'm going to be outlining some amendments that staff is recommending to the county administrators proposed budget schools have received more information from the state on anticipated funding and even since putting this together of course we continue to receive more information more came out from the governor's budget on Monday and then again yesterday so we're still working through that the purpose of this slide is really to let you know that as far as

[00:15:55] we know right now the the budget could it could include as much as 3.1 million dollars of additional state funding and the schools had already sort of gotten ahead of that and anticipated that and posted it in their reserve for revenue account in anticipation of this so if they if that money does end up getting approved after the governor's amendments and the reconvene session then it will not require a change in the bottom line to the budget so there'll be no change from what was presented to you before about budget to budget increases although it will change categories when we put out the adopted budget

[00:16:30] from the reserve account over into the state funding account and again those numbers are unknown these this is just an estimate at this point similarly the school nutrition fund same scenario they potentially will get more in state funding but that will come out of the reserve as the schools had had anticipated some portion of that and there would not be a change in the bottom line on the county side we'll start with some personnel technical amendments this budget the proposed budget funded the second year of a four-year cycle of position reviews so this is

[00:17:09] really more in the form of a disclosure than an amendment we will be transferring those dollars to align with the impacted departments now that we have a specific better understanding of where that's going regarding the tourism program similar scenario we fully funded the program in the proposed budget so there is no additional funding coming into that and we've now identified that a portion of that funding will be used to fund two full-time positions in support of the program as mr redeski had indicated in his presentation the adopted budget will add those

[00:17:44] positions to the personnel listing for you as well as reallocate those funds within line items or object codes again no change to your bottom line again both of those items are for informational purposes and require no further action from the board and then finally the reserve for revenue so we use reserve for revenue to anticipate future appropriation of things like insurance recoveries grants donations there are no local dollars associated with this appropriation however when we receive a new grant we use that appropriation to capture those new outside funds and

[00:18:23] and properly classify them county policy financial policy has very strict rules regarding the use of those funds and the approval levels necessary due to the growing size of our organization and our increasing success in getting grants i'm asking to increase this reserve from in the proposed budget it is 850 000 and i would like to increase that to 1.2 million if we do not need all the appropriation uh to recognize outside funding it cannot be used for anything else and expires at the end of the fiscal year i will also be coming forward to ask for talk to the finance committee

[00:19:00] at their next meeting to ask for more reserve for revenue in the year we're already spending out of so this is a this is more of a trend that we're seeing coming out of of covet and things like that so again no local dollars and finally a reminder i want the public to remember we have public hearing coming up on April the 2nd and budget adoption on April the 9th which will be I will also present to you the final amendments that we know of at that time and you will be asked to approve the budget with any of those

[00:19:33] enumerated amendments this concludes my recap of what we know today I'm happy to take any questions the board may have on the county budget also from your discussion at the last meeting there appeared to be some interest at this meeting and talking about school construction and as you can see our partners at the schools their team is here and are available to answer any any questions or participate in any way that you would need with regard to that discussion thank you very much ma'am any questions or comments from board members for Shelley Wright seeing none thank you very much ma'am thank you okay we will

[00:20:12] next go into our workshop format before we do that I will would like to recognize the members of the school board who are here I see chairman Bob May welcome I see mr. Eikenberry good to see you as always Steve I see mr. Ryan Martin thank you for being here any other members of the school board I may have missed I see Greg Coleman he must came in late but he's here thank you very much sir and our super or into interim superintendent dr. Penning cup is with us see Jennifer gripe Terry stone welcome to all of you thank you all

[00:20:46] for being here so we are going to now open this up for workshop mode which means we don't have to go through the chair we are going to have some discussion I believe that things on acceptable topics for today will be anything relating to do with the capital improvements program anything to do with the budget anything to do with the capital improvement schools study and program schools budget we're gonna have some open dialogue today of course we will always be respectful even if we disagree I have one topic that I would

[00:21:26] like to start with it I think it's a light topic and before we get into the heavy topics I would like to begin with a light topic and then I would like to hear some feedback and discussion from board members I think it's time for the school board to have a raise the school board has not had a raise since 2006 it's been 19 years we cannot vote to do that here but i do support the school board voting themselves a raise they have to do it uh i support right here openly a thousand dollars per year i'm open to

[00:22:03] other amounts but i would like to see if we have consensus to support that action by the school board that's the chair supervisor dibble workshop mode man yes thank you sir um as the chairman did did we change are you the chairman of anyway as a member of the finance committee i forget which hat i wear on that board now um we are actually have been in conversation with dr j brown and are not just studying compensation increases for the school board but also for

[00:22:43] all of our paid boards planning commission hadn't had a raise since 2003 either so we are in the process of looking at it in a comprehensive manner dr brown has been working with our hr department and we do anticipate having some suggestions at our next finance committee meeting because i believe all of us have collectively talked about this for two years even previous boards so um i think finally this year we're going to make some private progress and

[00:23:18] get it done so support that 100 thank you ma'am i definitely support it um i think the school board does a lot of work and are under compensated so i absolutely would support a raise what she said i will also concur with that as well thank you i i want to reiterate what ms dibble said i have no opposition to the school board getting a raise but i want planning commission and the

[00:23:54] other folks who serve us with such tremendous amounts of work to also be compensated okay well thank you very much all board members school board members I do believe you have consensus of support here at the Board of Supervisors to take that action I know not everyone they liked that we'll hear oh you know 25% and all these high numbers but I assure you I'll have your back on this issue so thank you very much thank you for your willingness to serve i know it's a tough job i know that you all all seven all seven of you are putting in

[00:24:34] a lot of time on on your roles as public servants to serve the citizens and the parents and the taxpayers and our students here in hanover county and your work is appreciated so thanks again okay now i'll open it up to any other topic of discussion for board members we'll also give an opportunity after board members for anyone in our school division to speak to anything it looks like you may have something on your mind ma'am yes i just wanted to discuss today

[00:25:08] we had talked about replacing three the three campus style elementary schools mechanicsville elmont and pearson's um you know in the coming future and i just kind of wanted to have a conversation about the order that we would replace them I believe we have mechanics will slated to be the first one in the in the budget but I just want to make sure that we are replacing the ones that are actually mechanically in need of replacing I think that should be looked at which ones are costing us the

[00:25:47] most in maintenance and repairs which you know I just want to look at those three specific schools okay any other comments from board members along those lines supervisor dibble yes thank you miss floyd for bringing that up I was looking at my May of 2018 comprehensive study that we did with regard to our schools and I think that together we need to understand why we fund what we

[00:26:24] fund and we need to be all of us on the same page with regard to the process and regard to the outcome because at the end of the day we have to support our budget when our constituents come and ask us questions and I'm not sure that my board is able to answer that question at this time and when I look at what's in this book that was evaluated by the professional architect we do say that that we want to take a look at the safety concerns which is why we're moving in the direction of

[00:27:01] these campus schools and I think all of us as parents support that um and and understand that because I know I say it all the time you know but our kids are our number one priority they just are that's me um always will be and I know Sheriff Hines one of his top priorities is protecting those children and i appreciate sheriff hines we had a discussion about bringing uh one of our sheriff's deputies in every school and it took 10 years but we got there and i especially you know

[00:27:36] appreciate the conversation that you and i had 10 years ago we never let go of that goal so uh thank you for that sheriff but in this document it does um talk about evaluates the three campus style schools they were all built about the same time but it recommends that Elmont be replaced and it doesn't even recommend that mechanicsville be replaced so I guess I'd like to understand what has happened between

[00:28:14] 2018 and the current evaluations justifications for bringing mechanics forward at this time because again it doesn't appear to us that there was much of a process so we need to be enlightened as to what that process might have been and understand it I'll tell you from my perspective Mr. Herzberg and I visited Elmont this week and I appreciate him taking the time to be there with me that school is about the front door is about 80 feet from the

[00:28:51] road there's two sets of areas for parking that are predominantly full before we get into dismissal and arrival so at any time during the day it's hard to find a parking space anyway and surely hard to find a parking space when Elmont has any type of event they're parking all over the place and it's halter-skelter but more importantly what happens none of these schools were built to accommodate parent drop off and pick up that's just the reality and so Elmont doesn't have

[00:29:26] a lot of stacking because it's so close to the road and so that traffic on Karen Lane stops both directions so concern that Chief Anderson I've talked about is how do we get an emergency vehicle through there the ditches you know you can't really move over so again it's it's a concern it's a safety concern and and it's a big concern of mine always has been so it was a little shocking when we had our budget presentation without us knowing that Mechanicsville had been chosen so

[00:30:05] we're just here to understand the process so that we can all move forward together we'd like to continue on board member comments so we get all this out and then you have an opportunity to to respond as much as you can uh any other comments i've got just got a comment yes so uh beaverdam elementary uh had its groundbreaking this week and it was a great event um and i enjoyed being there a lot of enthusiasm around that project um but i would like to bring up that there was an opportunity back uh in the uh the last year in the spring uh when we first uh did community meetings that there

[00:30:43] was a piece of property that's in front of uh beaver dam elementary um and you know the the idea was to try to pursue maybe a purchase because it was offered up to the county uh the the owner of the land would like to like to sell that to us and i think it would facilitate in the construction so i'd like to you know have that brought up as a consideration for this board uh that we we might pursue that a little more diligently um that it would it would definitely change the the configuration and help the flow in that process.

[00:31:15] So I don't know if you would like to speak to that maybe and what it would mean to the process going forward. Anyone else? I'd add a follow-up. Do we know that's still for sale? It was questionable when we talked about it a couple months ago. Yeah, I had that information, and I cannot find that email, the contact information, but I would be willing to pursue that.

[00:31:38] But I do think that that's a great possibility, yes. And I think that you did present that opportunity to the school board six months ago. I did. But it was not followed up, not that the same players are here that were there then.

[00:31:59] Correct. Okay, I have a few comments, and then we'll open it up to our school administration, school partners. So I have some concerns about some of the funding. when i read the 2022 capital the school capital plan study update the rrmm it had showed beaverdam elementary as a renovation and i believe the budget item that that i saw was somewhere around 16

[00:32:35] million dollars and i think now it's in the 32 million range now there may be a very good reason for that i'm not a construction expert i'm certainly not an expert on beaverdam elementary I didn't even know where it was until Monday, and I was wondering if I was ever going to get there, a 55-minute drive.

[00:32:54] But it was a great place to visit. I'm glad I had an opportunity. It was wonderful meeting the principal there, and it was an honor to participate in the groundbreaking. So, you know, that's $16 million or so. It might be $15, it might be $17, I'm not sure.

[00:33:11] But that is a huge budget increase. it and it's also bringing me to the fact that the study for mechanics for elementary showed a renovation and now that's 45 million and so I'll be straightforward with everyone this isn't just schools we're here to discuss the budget I hear from taxpayers I hear from citizens and I'll say this as nicely as I can I think the budget is growing too fast countywide I really do our county

[00:33:49] administrator called board members i remember the the conversation just about four months ago november or so he said we may need to look at some budget reductions he said that to me and the very first thing i said is is this can we push back some of this school construction because we've got we have two which is beaverdam and battlefield we've got another one after that washington henry and you know 45 40 whatever we're up in the 200 million dollar range so that's a lot it's a lot

[00:34:28] and i would like to understand it a little better uh the other point i'd like to bring up is i don't think the final determination on henry clay has been determined i think that's a it's a county asset now so i can't tell anyone what we're doing with henry clay i can't tell anyone what we're doing with Beaverdam Elementary. I can't tell anyone what we're doing with Washington Henry.

[00:34:58] And most sensitive, most important to me, and I know Steve feels the same way, we can't tell anyone what we're doing with the existing Battlefield Park Elementary. And these existing buildings, what's going to take place with them is a concern for our citizens and taxpayers, especially the center and the core of Battlefield Park Elementary. And there's been some discussion and someone had a great idea and said maybe we could use part of that school for preserve it

[00:35:33] for future space maybe for pre-k and i said well maybe if there's an emergency we need space we could preserve some of that battlefield park elementary school that would be good fiscal planning in my opinion or maybe if the school somehow gets overcrowded someday we have some space whatever the reason i think that that should be a part of our conversations what are we going to do with these existing structures and I could be wrong here but I don't think the budget numbers include what we're going to do with these existing structures now just to let everyone know

[00:36:11] this is not a school board issue this is a board of supervisors issue but we have an application right now on the ash cake road landfill and I'm not going to get into the details but there's some people that think it's time to expand that site on the parcel there's some people think it's time to be done with it. And so this is something that I have to consider. You know, where would some of this construction debris go? I mean, it is on my mind. And what's it going to cost? And when I first

[00:36:49] heard about the RRMM Capital Plan Study for Schools in 2022, and I saw the update, I saw replace Battlefield Park Elementary. I'll be straightforward. I'm 50-50 on that. I understand why we're doing it it's coming i support it but i do have concerns about citizens and their historical attachments to the existing building steve knows what i'm talking about he hears it

[00:37:22] also i saw rebuild washington henry seems like a good decision to me originally it was a renovation for beaver dam that's changed renovation for mechanicsville elementary now that's changing i think the consolidation of clay and gandy clay and gandy excellent decision whoever came up with that idea would get a pat on the back from me that was a winner no doubt i also want to point out while i have the opportunity that the expansion for the career and technical education center

[00:37:57] that's a great idea 100 support i can explain that without even thinking about it great idea but you know that's seven and a half million on top of the 16 million that's been added and i was one of the ones that said what are we going to do in the chromebooks for k-5 we're out in four years well we're here now okay we know what's what's going to happen and i'm okay with that not opposed but not thrilled about it another three and a half million and then we have these uh the next two schools at 90 million so those are my areas of concern i'd like to have some discussion and

[00:38:36] here uh some input feedback from other board members and school administration and staff okay mr badeski mr chair i think you've raised some good questions that are almost and certainly i want the school's feedback but from a capital planning standpoint we introduced the 25-year capital plan i think your question about reuse of existing facilities is critical at this juncture as we think about moving forward at no time prior to today has there been direction that we should

[00:39:08] plan for operational use of vacated schools and that can change today but Henry Clay the direction we've been given is to work towards an RFI that would and we have not budgeted for any capital into that facility or operations the RFI that's being developed for Henry Clay would hopefully identify an end user that would take it make investments in it and operate it and that would not be hanover county uh initially battlefield elementary was not planned to remain uh in the

[00:39:45] original planning battlefield elementary and the the further design that is ultimately on the street maintain the existing structures we will be in the same place unless directed different from this board with battlefield elementary to determine if we are going to use it for a county or school use and fund those county or school uses and so that certainly is a consideration in your deliberations as we look at the collective capital that that was a change from the original planning for battlefield that was not planned to be that structure and initially was planned to come down

[00:40:21] as of now washington and henry is not planned to be maintained and operated in another capacity unless the schools have another thought and so i have in my planning and exercises over the past five years we have not planned to maintain any of the old structures other than battlefield was preserved in part of the redesign so we have not planned and any of the projects that you have coming forward to you to maintain operate uh any of the vacated schools uh they were assumed to

[00:40:56] to have outlived their useful life for our purposes um and we have not budgeted around maintaining or operating those facilities so if that is a change in the collective board's thought it certainly would have to be a factor in our budget deliberations moving forward and so i if i'm incorrect in the school's planning side i welcome that addition but that has not been a factor that we had planned for thank you mr videski terry stone good to see you man thank you mr chair before she starts let me i want to just comment on a couple of high level things

[00:41:34] um the purchase of the land i'll tell you mr stone when that's first time i've heard about it i've been chairman for two years so i just share that with you uh we would support that you know you give us a check we'll go we'll go buy the land today but that's the first time i as chair have heard anything about it was in the last week so i share that with you okay um second of all uh so we're obviously support that's what i was trying to say um i'll ask your beaverdam whoever asked the question about beaver dam i'll go ahead and ask that for you uh it's a thing called asbestos once we got out there and started looking the building is full of asbestos the mediation and i don't know if that's all part of your briefing or not but i happen to i don't know if you were

[00:42:13] here or not but uh part of the mediation strategy was going to add about 15 million dollars on top of what the original estimate was so all of a sudden you're up into 30 million dollar range so why do we want to renovate an asbestos building that what are you going to do with kids when you start trying to get all the asbestos out so that's where the decision was made to go from renovating to rebuilding because the architect said i could do this for almost the exact same amount of money so that's why beaverdam was chosen to rebuild versus renovate the asbestos was not considered in 2021 when the study was done i could just share that with you so that's that's two of

[00:42:51] the answers i wanted to give with you um before she starts and we're prepared to discuss all the things with you and and we will try to attempt to logically explain uh what your board has done uh diligently to um consider we know because we're all taxpayers too we also know that this is uh this is not monopoly money and so i i took down the three things that uh there there is not a plan we go along with what mr bedesky has said there is no plan to save anything washington henry or at beaverdam elementary those will both come down lock stock and barrel and we'll have new

[00:43:28] schools operated on the grounds and then um we can i'll let miss stone because i've seen the briefing slides already go but about what she's going to present today on our process for how we got to the buildings that we are recommending and why we're recommending them the battlefield park one is one that has come up for discussion um there is no renovation i'm sorry there is no demolition money in that contract so we're building battlefield park with no demolition money involved we will have to decide how what are we going to do at some point in time to do with

[00:44:02] that but there is no demolition plan as part of that uh of that contract so with that i'll let miss stone now do her thing that she's eagerly awaiting oh i'm sorry i'm not sure if it'll pull out before mrs stone begins we came today to be able to be prepared to explain between the three campus style schools why we why the recommendation was made that the first one that would be replaced would be mechanicsville if you look in the 2021 rrmm study all three of the campus style elementary schools were originally recommended recommended for renovation and not replacement so the reasons

[00:44:41] that that was decided to move in that direction had to do with safety and security or the the largest piece so beyond that mechanicsville high school and patrick henry high school are the next two schools that have been recommended for demolition and replacement so today terry will mrs stone will start with us on why of the three campus schools for safety and security mechanicsville was selected first and then we'll move into questions that we thought you might have about the boundary adjustment and then we're happy to answer any other questions that come up thank Thank you.

[00:45:19] Before you get started, just want to clarify, I'm abundantly aware now that I gave that information to the wrong person. I followed up with him a couple of times, but yeah. So anyway, and then also Michael did bring up the Ashcake Landfill. None of that asbestos will be allowed.

[00:45:35] Just to make sure everybody knows that, that they don't receive asbestos. Well, I think another important piece is it doesn't become dangerous until you start the demolition and you start renovating and repairing because it's intact.

[00:45:51] Yes. And so it is safe for the children to be there. I had a follow-up. No money in the demolition at Battlefield Park. Let me clarify, if I could.

[00:46:07] So there's money in the contingency, so we know that we'll have enough money to pay for the demolition if that's the decision. So what we don't know is, and it's in the contingency, wasn't built into the contract to automatically demolition provide the demolition for the school and miss Stone can elaborate on that for us are you going to elaborate on that ma'am I was not here and again I'm Terry stone this is superintended shame on us I'm supposed to introduce myself but my

[00:46:44] understanding is that the original budget did not assume two turning lanes one off of Walnut Grove Road and and I was not here so I apologize if this is not completely accurate and also off of Mechanicsville Turnpike so that resulted in additional two million cost associated with that project however even with our contingencies and as you know we've awarded to the GC for that project we still should we still have remaining budget if everything goes as planned and lives within contingency we would have sufficient remaining budget

[00:47:24] to do a demolition if necessary and we had a quick conversation with the GC and said we already had some estimated numbers from RRMM when they looked at where would be the best location for trade school additional trade school should it be or additional career and technology instruction should it be at the old battlefield park should it be in addition to the trade school they looked at a cost associated with demolition we asked when we met with the gc hey what what would that look like back of the

[00:47:58] envelope both of them currently are a number that we can live within within the within the budget as assuming everything goes as planned because you all know as well as i do so but that is my understanding it you know originally it was going to be a part of the original bid and then there was concerns you know was there enough funding there and so um that is certainly a topic that we will be tackling um with the development of next year's capital improvement plan although i

[00:48:31] think we may have the funding there so i may jump did i hear you say two million dollars for turning lanes that is that could be rumor that's so let me do that doesn't sound right because the estimates i had from mr vadunas last year was nowhere near that my the architect shared that number with me i must be honest with you i would have to go back and pull the actual so i shouldn't have said that number i apologize but i know it was a significant number that impacted the overall budget for the project and the point we're trying to make is that's what caused us to pull out the demolition

[00:49:07] initially right now so that we could actually get the cup approved and get the building going is so that we could do all the things that were required because that was a i'm probably speaking out of my term but it was a county um recommendation that we include those two turn lanes well i was one to ask for that because you can't have 18 wheelers and tractor and trailers on 360 on a four-lane highway there coming up on moms and grandmas dropping their kids off at battlefield park elementary so that that was a safety concern i understand what you're saying but the the dollar amount that i had asked i mean the land's already there it's not like it

[00:49:47] just has to be paved and striped and something's wrong with the two million i'll follow up with that okay we'll reach out to our architect um okay so we did come today prepared to talk about the capital improvement plan and that choice between the campus style schools um as you know this is just a quick overview there seems to be a bit of a disconnect we have just stated that we have been doing a 25 year capital improvement plan with the assumptions very clear assumptions

[00:50:22] that none of these schools would be salvaged they would all be demoed right that was the initial plan i understand in the development of the battlefield design there was a fair amount of community concern that had weighed into that particular stance changing on the battlefield project and I understand that but the message is that we expected the building the demo and the turn lane to all be included in the budget that we allocated and that's still the expectation so

[00:51:00] it's it's not good when the public we don't know what we're going to do with the building I mean it's better to break the bad news early than later but I just want to be clear that there's no more money to take that building down and if you have some use that you want for it again there's no money in our budget to do that so it just um i am comfortable at this time that there is sufficient budget dollars within the battlefield park elementary school for demolition which is what

[00:51:37] i'm hearing from mr bedesky was the assumption so there i just want to be clear that there will be no more money allocated because that was our expectations of all of us sure okay so and i'm going back if i may real quick um i just wanted to touch on the asbestos um you said that it was not considered in the 2021 report but by the architects why did those architects not take

[00:52:09] that into account um i'm just i'm worried that what happened at beaver dam with we had a plan for renovation got turned into replacement because of asbestos which makes sense I mean is it fair to say that the other elementary schools built in the 60s would have the same asbestos issues that's why they can't be renovated the one thing I will say is when we when we've had one of those facilities assessments was performed while I was with the schools and the update I was not but we typically ask them to go in and perform a general

[00:52:48] assessment cost increases depending on what level of detail you want to go into and so I think we have to acknowledge that when we say we need you to go in and look at 10 or 15 schools they let us know hey this is a high-level assessment there's always something that could be unexpected I don't think that was intentional and I think we can always get a more detailed assessment But when you're getting assessment that's looking out 2025 years, you probably do not want to go into that level of detail We could think about when we're looking at five or seven years. Should we do a more detailed assessment?

[00:53:28] But I think it's fair to say it was more of a general assessment, right? I just feel like and I could be wrong But the architects should know just from the age that they were built the building materials that would have been used at the time Right. Yeah, sounds reasonable. I agree with you Ms. Floyd, 100 percent. It's frustrating now. I wasn't here, but I don't know. I don't need an architect. I don't. To know that if I went to Elmont and I pulled the asbestos tile down and would look at a pipe that is wrapped in asbestos insulation, I guarantee you it's there. And so

[00:54:08] that's not, while it'd be a high level assessment and in addition to Dr. Pennycuff's point, it is not a problem until it is disturbed, but once you disturb it, it is a particulate that is subject to be inhaled by everyone and recirculated. I would venture to say, Ms. Dibble mentioned earlier the old HVAC systems, that ductwork is wrapped in asbestos, as dumb as it sounds now, not to mention I'm sure full of mold. So yeah, I think it just really, they left something out on

[00:54:46] that and shame on us for not making sure that they pointed it out at the time because exponentially I mean you can't you can't have those kids anywhere in the area when you disturb that stuff and and water has to be put on it to keep the particulates down I mean it's a tremendous process just the permits no that's a great point and we'll certainly keep that in mind going forward if we do additional assessments um and and I was not here when the decision was made where some of these renovations became new builds i will say that typical when i look back to the assessment

[00:55:24] the rmm when you do a renovation you're buying yourself an additional 20 to 30 years a new build you're 60 to 70 years so why we look at the dollar amount and say that's a big difference but it does buy you know more in hanover 80 to 90 years right correct i wasn't going to say that i think that's across the state so we're not different okay but to focus in on the decision of what which campus style school first back in October or November rather during a work session this is the matrix that we brought to the school board in terms of

[00:56:01] trying to make that decision and if you you can see there's not a huge huge difference between all of them when we look at some of the infrastructure within the building we've got elmont mechanicsville and pearson's corner across the top the year that it was built and interesting pearson's corner is the oldest we have our current enrollment and then if the boundary adjustment if the green plan is approved by the school board we just wanted to project forward what does it mean for each school are they gaining students are they losing students we have the number of learning cottages there mechanicsville has one the others do not

[00:56:39] hvac i have another slide in regards to that and no one's winning prizes on the hvac i got to tell you between all three of them sanitary sewer we've got some minor issues at elmont more moderate issues at mechanicsville and i have a picture i understand a couple of the board members board of supervisor members were out at mechanicsville last week so they they will recognize this picture and then no issues right now at pearson's corner a roof fair to poor and and that's a range between

[00:57:12] we need to invest uh you know 150 000 to 200 to we need to invest six to seven hundred so none of them are great although there is some work that we have done there and then we zeroed in on on safety and security and we have carrie wright with us today because i'm not the expert But I asked her, just brainstorm for us, you know, what do you think about when you think about these schools?

[00:57:37] And so she did talk about at Elmont, there's limited pedestrian traffic, although more car traffic. And she talked about that secluded area with the wood line, heavy wood line. She doesn't like that. You know, Carrie wants to see everything at a long distance.

[00:57:54] But then when we got to Mechanicsville, she said it has the greatest amount of unrelated pedestrian traffic. people want to walk through there, cut through there, and because these are all three campus style schools, we don't want people walking across their grounds at all, but I think that has a high density population, there's a lot of traffic through there, and there's far more walking, people just unintentionally, well they're intentionally doing them, but they're cutting across the school property, it creates alarm within the building, and then it has to be addressed.

[00:58:29] And then for Pearson's Corner, there is limited pedestrian traffic. So I have another slide that talks about safety and security, but that really it felt as if that was a bit of the tipping point. When we go and drill down a little more into the HVAC, you see some of the work that we did in 2021, 2010 for the three schools.

[00:58:54] There are planned projects in 2027. however once we know which school is first you know once we find have a final adopted budget then we would probably have to go back and say well is that first school could we limp along a little longer and could those funds be directed somewhere else but you see there's to the extent that we're going to continue to operate those schools there there are needs there for mechanics we talked about that the sewer piping it's starting to leak there's backups and

[00:59:29] we probably have multiple small repairs more significant issues I'm hearing once a quarter or so we also have the roof for all three of them the work that has been done recently and then proposed work for the future so again when you look at the HVAC and the roof there's not one of the three that I can say oh this one is this one's great you know it's doing well but definitely with the sanitary sewer we have more significant issues at mechanicsville in regards to that and again I've got my experts here because you guys know I wouldn't know

[01:00:09] what to do with a sanitary sewer backup but but call someone and then I felt as if during that meeting and I don't want to speak for the school board members but there was a real strong focus on safety and security and when we focused in on the pedestrian traffic calls for service in the area of the particular school and the vehicular traffic I think that is where Mechanicsville just edged a notch up over the others and I would be happy to take any questions get my experts to help me out in regard oh wait I have some schematics I do have

[01:00:47] pictures thank you I'm just coming back from vacation so you thank you for the prompt and this is the schematic out of the RRMM report you have likely seen some of this green means good yellow means fair red is poor this is Elmont and and these look similar also frankly each school other than the modular at Mechanicsville have some green and they have some yellow so that's Mechanicsville this is the sanitary sewer backup and so that's disruptive when that happens during a school day we've got to close off some of the bathrooms and I can smell that picture

[01:01:26] Terry do they indicate in the RRMM report what does it take to be red it reminds me of you know yourself of your employee valuation and you want a superior and nobody gets a superior right so does nobody get red because if it's red then the kids shouldn't be there at all well no bad field park had some red had it had a good half a school red so there there is some red out there um but i think and again this this original assessment was done in 2018 and we have to

[01:01:59] acknowledge seven years have passed now they they refreshed it in 2021 but based on what i'm seeing i think these schematics remain the same um so you know with each year that passes we're probably or yellow is starting to turn towards maybe a peach or something um so again that's pearson's corner and um i keep going too far i apologize this is too fancy for me um but in regards to the decision um and i don't again i don't want to speak for you mr may or or mr eikenberry but

[01:02:35] that's the field that safety and security kind of became the tipping point and i will go back to that matrix are there any other questions that we can assist with in regards you know to these campus style schools this was really helpful to know the details about the condition of each of those three schools it helps me to explain the replacement order to our residents in much more detail so this screen here is very helpful to me thank you oh you're welcome and i think we shared

[01:03:12] a lot of that verbally um with the board um so let's take a look um the beaver dam elementary school property and mr stoneman you brought that up a couple of weeks ago when we were in the meeting with the architect and he he got excited he jumped for joy and said wow that would be wonderful if you know that that's every time we look at this rebuild and where everything's going that is a barrier but i recognize the fact that there is no appropriation for it today and as you and i spoke i didn't want to approach anyone and ask questions because legally i do not have funding

[01:03:50] for that um but i think that everyone would be excited especially probably the gc and the and the architect if that opportunity were to present itself mr chair can i just add to that and terry i think sometimes when folks are in transition things get lost uh we did reach out and i've dr penicup just sent you an email that to miss burda and miss burda said it would be included in the design work and they would get back to us and we never heard anything back and so it was not considered any further on the county side we were awaiting that determination and at this point you

[01:04:29] have a bid project that was designed around utilizing that and certainly amendments can be made and change orders can be made um but at this point we without further guidance we did not initiate a purchase okay that makes sense all right i'm looking at um i'm trying to look at my list so we you also had mentioned the replacement versus renovation for beaver dam mechanics for elementary how what was that ranking order and then in terms of I think for

[01:05:08] looking at my notes we do have some information on the boundary adjustment I would also say that in regards to the high school middle schools right now to the best of my knowledge mr. Badesky and working with Shelly the mechanics for high school in bell creek is out there 2040 fiscal year 2040 that's a total of 217 million dollars because high schools and middle schools cost so much more and then for patrick henry and liberty

[01:05:43] what is slated now just in that long-term debt plan um is about 147 million with um liberty coming in at a lower cost right now just based upon that initial assessment and I know a lot of times on the county side because of debt capacity and debt ratios you know they have to smooth out some of that debt and certainly you know sometimes you got to wait for other debt to be paid off and and move off the to be to expire so before you can bring in some of those big dollars so I don't know if that was definitely some of the decision-making but then you're very

[01:06:19] accurate and please know we did not assume any new revenue so no um no data center revenue is considered in the long-term capital planning projection um and so it's it's utilizing trends and of current debt capacities um and i would all love to know exactly what a new high school middle school is going to cost in 2040 um so it's you know we've made some assumptions on projections but right likely those numbers are low i i concur okay well what what i what else i have

[01:06:55] is in regards to the boundary adjustment i'm not sure if you yes ma'am i just have one comment i appreciate um this very comprehensive information and i hope that the board appreciates our position that without this information we have nothing and um i will have to say when i first asked about this i was told it was hvac and now that's not really what this document tells me so i was also not getting the same consistent answers but i think this comprehensive report like this um it's really

[01:07:32] just a toss-up you know between the two um they're both in bad shape they both have issues what's what's less safe people walking through the rear of the school or i'll ask the sheriff traffic stopping on Karen Lane you can't get through it's dead stopped so that you know that's that's a problem and so you have to make choices that I know Sheriff Hines and I would love to be able to say we're gonna we're gonna fix both of them because we're concerned about traffic we're concerned about our first responders getting in the vicinity of Elmont Elementary and Mechanicsville Elementary

[01:08:10] and it's a problem at both schools so we have to make a decision and I'd like to hear from you Not to put you on the spot as you're on the spot. He doesn't mind. He's the best of the best. I'm in my mess.

[01:08:26] So, yes, don't leave, Terry. Look, our elementary schools, look at Mechanicsville Elementary. Mr. Hudson probably drives by it every day. We've got Elmont. I know Mr. May comes through there.

[01:08:42] Our elementary schools are not built for the amount of traffic that they get today. Now, there are a lot of people that would like us to direct traffic at the elementary school. The problem is there's no place to stack that traffic. There's just no place to stack it.

[01:08:59] There's too much traffic coming in and trying to get out. I think our citizens have done a really good job being patient with each other at these. We saw this at Rural Point. Rural Point redesigned their traffic coming in by utilizing their parking lot and pretty much putting a queue in so that traffic could stack up more.

[01:09:26] There's absolutely no room at Mechanicsville for that. There just isn't. So as the schools, elementary schools, are being built, I'm hoping that that will be some consideration as they go forward of allowing for, because I don't think our traffic is going to lessen in the future, but I'm hoping that there will be some consideration given to the traffic situations at each one of our elementary schools as they're being built.

[01:09:59] There needs to be that consideration given, or we're going to live with the same traffic concerns tomorrow that we have today. Can I just speak on one other item? As these schools are being considered, I think we also need to have a conversation, and it may just be a conversation, but we need to have a conversation of what we're going to do for the future of looking at our schools as to items being brought in and how we may better detect that.

[01:10:34] So that's a conversation that we need to have that I'm going to make an assumption, because this is a workshop, I can do that. I'm just going to make an assumption that that kind of equipment has not been figured in to our budget just yet.

[01:10:51] Not to my knowledge. In building the school. But I do think that that's the kind of conversation that we need to have. And the other thing I will tell you, and Ms. Pennycuff, I know she's new, she's been wonderful to work with, we just finished doing our assessment of each one of the schools.

[01:11:11] Every year we do it, but we are doing an assessment on what's presently there, not what the future would bring. So every year we go through crime prevention, does an assessment of the school from whether or not the bushes need to be trimmed to what cameras need to be replaced and what doors need to remain locked, all of that.

[01:11:30] Each principal gets their own copy of that for their school. then the superintendent's office gets the full copy for every school. So, you know, we're trying to stay on top of that. Did I answer your question?

[01:11:48] Yes, and I appreciate that, and I know that Ms. Stone would probably agree with me that bringing the sheriff to the table as we move forward with future designs is critical because, again, our number one priority are our wonderful children.

[01:12:05] And if you've got the best of the best standing at the podium, use him. Well, just for clarification, the sheriff's got great people that you want to talk to. I agree with that. We definitely need the sheriff or someone from his department involved when we design these schools.

[01:12:23] Shame on me. I would have assumed that was already happening. We actually, Carrie Wright had some input in regards to after she went to Ashland Elementary and said, hey, I think you should consider this and you should consider that.

[01:12:39] so we connected her immediately with the architect and so certainly we are going to bring in more of that focus have her in earlier on and be able to ensure that we're comfortable can you set me straight on something I don't say that a lot good luck transportation dollars at Mechanicsville Elementary School for the proposed turn lane that we're getting right away acquisition on correct

[01:13:14] i have to tell you amanda are you familiar with that mechanics i i am not up to date on that okay and that's okay i mean and some one of my colleagues can jump in and say no mr hudson we we dumped that money elsewhere we're not doing that but i know that's not the case but i could have been absent went to the restroom or something um because i if that money could be moved if things are going to stay as they are i would be okay with that to to allow to allow elmont to get

[01:13:49] their traffic problems resolved since they would have to wait is what i'm getting at but it doesn't help if nobody in the room well and mr podesky is that more on the transportation side i believe that's a separate project under transportation it is a separate project however if i could just add i think when we look at some of the transportation it aligns with the current capital improvement plant so i think we looked at that need and the timing of the recommended school similarly and so

[01:14:26] i'm not sure if we would be able to break those funds out and i wasn't on the board but how would they know what the recommended school was since we didn't know till two weeks ago that transportation problem exists whether that was the first school or not got it that's okay i think mr hersberg can give us some history yes thank you mr hudson i can so in 2022 we um we saw this on the roads committee because we were receiving complaints about traffic backups in front of mechanics for elementary and it is a corridor for the hospital memorial regional hospital and so there

[01:15:03] was a design to widen atlee road in front of mechanicsville elementary to provide for turning lanes which would be a very nice safety improvement that project went through design i've seen the project but it has not been submitted for funding so there is no funding for that project at this time then there was a school board announcement or a school division announcement i should say it that way we're gonna replace mechanics for elementary next so in transportation committee

[01:15:41] we made the decision just to put that project on hold so there's no dollars yet there's there's documents there's a design there's no right-of-way purchase yet uh so that project has just been put on hold there's no sense in advancing a project like that if there's discussion about replacing a school because it's possible it'll be well it can't be built where the school is now can it It's going to have to be moved over.

[01:16:13] So I hope that clears that up. It does. I just want to, and I see Todd's there on his computer. And I'm fine if I was mistaken, and thank you, Mr. Herzberg, for giving the complete backstory, but it was my understanding at one of our most recent updates, to Mr. Herzberg's point, before the school division made the announcement, that we were in fact in right-of-way acquisition, but according to Mr. Herzberg, it did not occur. And that's okay. You're checking

[01:16:49] on it. Okay. All right. Thank you. I'll save you both. I don't know that you need to get involved. He gave a really good recap and Todd's going to confirm everything. Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Herzberg. We appreciate your help. Okay. So what I have next is boundary adjustment. Is there an appetite for that or have you all seen enough I'm happy to stop or go I think Terry there was some confusion with regard to capacities and seeing a

[01:17:27] variety of capacities for each schools and I think again I'll remind my colleagues that Terry inherited this work and I think that the architect in or the consultant in this boundary adjustment has done an excellent job visiting the schools and if you could sort of talk about that slides and and explain that sure so well and Jerry hold on for you on this deal I just want to make sure mr. Hursberg is that pretty much everything about the schools that was before we shift gears completely or do we want to keep it open to come back that's I was just trying to make sure I understood that we answered all your

[01:18:05] questions now I think most of the questions have been answered to a degree but it's still possible we could go back to it okay while she's here okay brought it up I think it would be good to get the information on the school capacity because it was very confusing we're fine with that sir I just want to make sure that we I didn't want to throw two things up in the air while we're trying to juggle balls here so if we can but we'll move on and then if we need to come back we can circle back we have included the targeted capacity in this presentation so you'll see it here that's good to hear thank you and I'm

[01:18:40] clicking all the buttons I will go through this quickly to get us there but if you see something that you say hey stop let's talk about it we MGT surveyed our community and our community results from that survey is what is most important to the community it's neighborhood schools minimize impact capacity and utilization where we are is that the work group from the school board has recommended the green scenario it has not been voted on it is slated to go to the april

[01:19:15] 8th meeting school board meeting they did vote to delay the implementation by one school year and that gives people more time to respond prepare for it maybe daycare changes and things like that and then they directed admin to go back and develop an an implementation plan framework and bring back to them at that April board meeting when we look at the green scenario we see that it would only impact 7% of our students if that impacted every student but what we know the implementation plan will likely lower

[01:19:52] that number it will give parents some choice not every grade but there will be some opportunity for choice so we're feeling pretty confident that that 7% number will be um you know quite a bit lower maybe even cut in half or closer to four percent the major adjustments and this is not the only adjustments with the green scenario because it impacts almost every school not all a little bit but the major adjustments are these that are listed here so in the first year of implementation at lee manor cranny island farms cranny island

[01:20:30] states and would move from Cool Spring to Washington Henry and then in the 2027 28 school year Giles would move from Cool Springs to Washington Henry with the opening of the replacement school I have provided you with a matrix and I'm going to put it up on the screen clearly some students are moving out of Washington Henry to Mechanicsville Elementary or to Rule Point Elementary to make room for Washington Henry to receive these students these new that are coming their way also what is recommended and I'm gonna share a slide with you is that we

[01:21:10] have clean feeder patterns one of the things that we heard from public comment with parents was that my child went all the way through elementary school with the same children and then 5% of them went to another school and it was like them you know starting all over in another county so they are proposing clean feeder patterns for all except for mechanics for elementary which is just truly split half and half and it's difficult to make that change so this is the matrix that I provided Lisa with a hard copy so you may have that in front

[01:21:45] of you this shows you if you look at a school down the left-hand side that students are moving from those schools to the schools that are lifted listed across the top so for example Ashland Elementary 30 students are moving from Ashland to South Anna I'm gonna get a cough drop because I'm talking too much and then so on you can see for Cold Harbor Elementary 61 students are moving

[01:22:19] to Battlefield Park if you look at the cold hard Harbor column you'll see that 85 students are moving from Mechanicsville Elementary to Cold Harbor so that's the way to read this matrix and again if you take the sum of all of those moves then it's around 7% of our total student population that is being impacted

[01:22:44] thank you this is the map the impact map for elementary schools and so you can follow when you see the crossed lines that means that's an area that is moving to a new school so if we look up there near ashland elementary you see those crossed lines arrow over they're going

[01:23:16] to south anna there are about 30 students in that area that would be moving we break it down below You can see there are 83 that is part of that move from Attlee Manor, Craney Island in 2026 moving to Washington Henry.

[01:23:37] The box, we had to blow it up and make it a little easier to read. And then in 2027, for Giles, that's about 154 students that would be moving to Washington Henry. And you can kind of follow that. We've dropped in the numbers. won't go through all of them but this demonstrates the impact of how many students in a certain area that are moving to another sometimes for example when we look at that I think that's Elmont moving over to Kersey Creek looks like a bigger geographic area but it only impacts ten students not only but

[01:24:14] the potential for ten students no one wants to be impacted and I understand that so again that just demonstrates the amount of movement for those different areas any questions about that it's a little confusing you may need to digest it I have a quick question do you know how many students that you guys project projected was going to be at Caldwell Park which is on the corner of 301 and new ash cake going to Pearson's corner so that is the 58 number oh you what he taught me how to use this but i'm still not going to do it well i don't believe it's that

[01:24:53] 58 number because it is higher it's up higher on the map than that's right there on the corner correct it but that still has not completely built out that's also included it's not been built yet i just wanted to make sure that we are accounting for because it was going to be 417 rental units so i have a slide for that okay it doesn't it doesn't have a graphic to it um but um they did i'll share what they took into account and can reference you to a report um so right now today i think

[01:25:25] it's around 58 but they did account for future developments and we'll touch on that so i got a question for you real quick sure before we move on are there allowances for for anybody any exceptions in some of these transfers so um the that decision has not been made but staff has been brainstorming and looking at what's done other places and we do plan to go to the school board next month and make some recommendations for their consideration i don't want to get in front of it i gotta we gotta save up all the good material to answer your question mr stonewood we've asked

[01:26:03] the professionals to go back to look at what happened when we opened atlee and and uh hanover high school and and to try to make sure we're trying to be semi-consistent with what we've done in the past and then to also take in what other best practices we may have learned in the last 10 years 15 years so that we can do that and those professionals are the ones bringing it to us at our meeting in april and if i could just add to that that's where she had mentioned earlier that we were at seven percent students impacted but one of the top three goals was to lessen the impact

[01:26:39] on students so we're hoping to cut that number in half by the implementation plan that we bring that's out to the principals now for their consideration and feedback of things that we may not have thought of we'll be getting that back from them very soon making any adjustments and then bringing it to the board next week so good news is coming yeah go ahead so i'm still confused about the 30 that are moving to south anna 30 existing students that are being moved it is projected for the next school year and the way this model works but but we had to take a

[01:27:14] snapshot to get a feel but the model works that for new development and they age out the students so they recognize that 30 students today may not be 30 students five years from now because some of those students could be in high school but they they've made assumptions about they take the live birth rate for Hanover County they look at the trend they make assumptions for the area how many kindergartners are coming in based upon previous history for the area and they age the students out they bring in new development it's a pretty robust

[01:27:53] approach I don't have any new development there well then they assume they age out the students but they also they were able to calculate some turnover numbers which are low for Hanover especially during this economic environment but they have to make they'll make some assumptions based upon our historical enrollment that there will likely be some there they may be some homes that are sold that then so for your area it's a very small number but when they look at it across the county they are making those assumptions and considering all of that impact well there's no assumption to be made that

[01:28:33] those large farms are going to be developed I'm just going on record okay I'm going to email them tonight. Dr. Penningcuff, your comments earlier, I just, you kind of took the words out of my mouth, and that was that I think the implementation of the results are what is going to be key to minimize the impact.

[01:28:59] So I was glad to hear that, actually, that the principals are being able to look, because they do know their schools. My children were going to be and are not being impacted, but it doesn't make it any easier.

[01:29:21] So, and I think the implementation, even to the point of the grade level, you know, I've had some conversations. Third grade is when school gets real, and it's very, very difficult. And as professionals, it would be my expectation that that is something that would be taken into account.

[01:29:43] just as one factor so thank you all for your work yes sir think about that that's why our committee voted and the board approved last month well actually earlier this month for us to delay implementation which would give time for families to figure that out and also our staff transportation logistics everything to figure all this out and again they're doing it by the steps they've already presented some of the ideas to mr may and i and as dr penny cuff said the principals now have it is now going to come back to us in about two weeks so thank you all good stuff thank you so this is

[01:30:21] the map that shows the movement at the secondary level however all of this is related to having those clean feeder patterns um so if you look at our current feeder pattern we we talked about students elementary students having to leave their classmates and go to a different school there are four schools that split elmont elementary is split um between three um three schools some between yes i'm sorry okay and then mechanicsville elementary is split and that would remain there it's just a it's a 50 50 split almost pearson's corner and kersey creek so what was recommended

[01:31:01] by MGT is clean this up take take this opportunity to clean this up and do direct feeder patterns to the secondary level so the results the movement related to secondary is all - in order to get this direct feeder pattern so this is just a great visual the idea is to have your schools between 80 to 89% at capacity and we're going to talk about those capacity numbers but that is the

[01:31:40] sweet spot as they called it so that's green and then when you get to yellow you're starting to get close to capacity red you're over capacity 70% you're in the blue when you get to 66 and the dark green you're under utilizing that that facility so the existing this is a visual of what it looks like today we've got reds we've got dark greens and then with a draft green scenario you see to the right of it there's so much more green there there is some yellow but

[01:32:16] it's it's far less in terms of there's no red there's less yellow there's less dark green so you're better utilizing the facilities that you have this is at the elementary level when we look at the secondary again you see that when with the recommendation of the green scenario you're seeing a lot more green um you've got some blue you do have some yellow and and that's at chickahominy and at lee but it is not getting to capacity and again you've got those clean feeders and i just added both the principals at chickahominy and atley have said they can handle that that's that's in there they don't have to do anything

[01:32:56] special to be able to handle that number of students and miss stone could you add some context to the capacities at hanover high and why that would have a different sweet spot with regard to the functionality of the building correct with the um the specialty center there and the other programs that go on there sometimes students are in there two days a week or but we definitely need more a lower capacity there to ensure that that building is ready to accommodate those specialty programs. Was that, Ms. Greif is so much more articulate than the accountant. So have you, I guess

[01:33:35] the last time we did this exercise, we actually counted those students as far as a total utilization of the building to know that we really don't have a building that's a third empty. We really have a building that any day of the week has, is 80% full, right? That is correct. So we have two different ways that our students attend Hanover High School and one is as full-time students and they are there the whole time but we have many students who come for two blocks at a time and we transport them in the middle of the day each day and so they go back and forth we have to make sure that we have the

[01:34:13] capacity for those students to come to those classes every day so we don't want to see Hanover High School get as high or get even in the green if we can we like the blue for them and you feel 66 is a good good place 60 to 70 so in the draft with the recommendation for change we are bumping that up and 73 is a very good spot for there thank you sure ma'am i have a question can you go back to the elementary chart that chart right there so

[01:34:49] i have a question about battlefield park so right now the school is under capacity but the new school will be smaller i still do not understand why we're moving kids or students through washington henry through mechanicsville elementary through cold harbor elementary to put battlefield at 90 or 89 percent and then this chart shows washington henry's at 82 percent why would we move so many through uh to put battlefield park close to 90 one of them's in the yellow there and then leave

[01:35:23] Washington Henry at 82 or 84 well and the yellow is before the rebuild and not that it's a larger school but there is some natural again they've looked at the number of students that are passing through and what the grade level that follows them and so it frankly I mean gets it to the green I hear what you're saying that shift shift shift and what we know today most of the capacity the greatest excess capacity or available capacity I shouldn't say excess is that

[01:35:57] South Anna and pole green well we couldn't pick up cool spring students and take them to pole green or South Anna so it does feel maybe you're touching a lot but we're still at that seven percent but so we moved some of the cool spring students to Washington Henry because it's after the build it's going to have additional capacity the rebuild and so we wanted to fill that and then you were correct that resulted in some of Mechanicsville Elementary some of their students existing students today Washington Henry moving to Mechanicsville

[01:36:34] Elementary that then some of those students moved to Cold Harbor and some to Battlefield Park so it was part of that little bit of a counterclockwise shift to get more students to the exterior well ma'am I with all due respect to understand your explanation thank you very much but it didn't really answer my question because why do so many students have to be moved out of Washington Henry through Cold Harbor in the battlefield to put battlefield at

[01:37:11] 88% when Washington Henry is showed at 82 so why not transfer 20 30 less students and have Washington Henry at 84 85 and battlefield at 84 85 and keep those students the students going to Washington Henry so you would keep the students at Washington Henry as opposed to going to mechanics fell and sending them sending shift in 30 more to Cold Harbor shift and 30 more to battlefield because this chart here shows battlefield it well 90 to 89% and it's

[01:37:47] It's that, I think Steve, sorry, Mr. Eikenberry can likely assist, but this part right here that's leaving Washington Henry and going to Mechanicsville Elementary, that natural boundary or the boundary there is at least.

[01:38:05] It doesn't exist. It's not really natural because it's part of Ellison's garage. Oh, I'm sorry, the Ellison's Drive Road right through there. We would have to have split that neighborhood, and we've been trying to stay away from the splits as much as possible.

[01:38:23] You know, we discussed that before. Ellison Drive is a natural division between the subdivisions over there. The way they've been building those homes, they've kind of combined them into one community, and that was part of the problem. Okay. We just didn't have a place where it's kind of like when we were looking at some other options, and do we split Milestone, do we split King's Charter, and the same thing with that part of Mechanicsville.

[01:38:51] Do we split that part of Mechanicsville when these kids have been used to their community neighborhood school all along? And then all of a sudden, now we've split it. And that's what we're looking at. Well, I understand your explanation, sir.

[01:39:08] Thank you very much. But we're also redistricting students, which is an inconvenience to begin with. That's my point. And so what I'm hearing is, well, there's two different neighborhoods on both sides of Ellerson Drive.

[01:39:24] And we don't want to split both sides of Ellison Drive, so we'd rather just redistrict more kids. Well, that's what we had to look at with King's Charter, because there's a northern part of King's Charter up by Sliding Hill Road up near the air park. And you might think, okay, we could split them and send them over to Pearson's.

[01:39:43] Well, they still consider them a part of King's Charter, and then they use King's Charter Drive and they work their way on down to Cool Spring. And again, they didn't want to be split. They still feel like they had that integrity of that neighborhood, and the Ellison's part of Mechanicsville felt the same way.

[01:40:02] Again, we're looking at some of the driving forces or the survey that we received from the community, and that's one of the things that we did listen to, so thank you. Okay, so we're going to catch.

[01:40:18] We're almost at the end, I promise. The planned residential development, so MGT met with county planning staff and also town planning staff and they they looked they added in or made assumptions for an additional 35 planned or active projects it's over 1300 units that included single-family multifamily apartments and they forecast that out for the next 10 years they made different assumptions they were able to calculate air typical yield in Hanover based upon the type of housing and so those are the

[01:40:57] assumptions that they used to project out and the report i have with me today and it's out in board docs but there is actually a page where they list all of those developments that they are accounting for so i'm happy to give you a copy of that and that may be helpful yes please do send that to me and i also see on here it doesn't say single family attached we have a number for that like townhomes i think they for for attached they use that same assumption as single family detached i I will go back, but I believe they do.

[01:41:31] I'm going to grab that report, but I don't necessarily know that they make the distinction. And I think there's so few. Townhomes? They actually, let me pull that document. Sure. I do not want to misspeak. Thank you. All right.

[01:41:46] So what we have here in regards to capacity, until MGT, MGT came in and performed the study on capacity and they created a targeted capacity where they take the functional capacity and then they take 90 of it so how did they do that they actually went out into our school buildings and jen assisted in some of her staff and they counted the classrooms and they said okay every school

[01:42:22] has to have art music we have to assume a certain number of special ed classes we need a space for speech they went in did that calculation they made assumptions on the number of students sometimes based upon grade level certainly based upon what type of programming was occurring in that classroom they got a grand total and then they took 90 percent of it and said that is what we will use as our target capacity what is a little confusing let's take cold harbor elementary for

[01:42:55] example if we went back and we look at the construction build where they're saying you got to have 25 kids in every space when we looked at those plans that's 900 you you cannot fit 900 students in Cold Harbor so in the past what Hanover County what we were doing in our budget document was there was a calculation of taking about 90% or some a prorated share of that which resulted for cold harbor of it said 750 students or some number around there will mgt study is far more

[01:43:32] defined and targeted and then they only take 90 of it so moving forward this is the capacity number that we will use and we will produce in our budget document they worked with their staff with the instructional experts and said no you can't go by what the architect says you can fit in every space we've got to look at how how does it function okay so quick question going back to Caldwell Park so if you use those those numbers that you had and you took that middle number for multifamily which was point two by 417

[01:44:10] units and even taking 90% of that we're at 75 students so is Pearson's getting 75 from coldwell park and then an additional 58 well so that but coldwell park we're not going to have them overnight i don't think i think that will be built in phases and be populated and they've made that assumption but in the meantime you're going to have existing students that start to phase out so they all of that and it's very complex right um because i used to do some of this manually with an Excel spreadsheet and they really show me up so it's very

[01:44:49] complex but they have in what I've seen I feel pretty I'm impressed I feel confident that they're accounting for that but I'm gonna share that document with you when we're done and let you take a look at it thank you so if I stop advancing too far I think we we have these new school capacities that we're going to start including in our budget document we'll also look at that when planning or when we're talking about what is the capacity in the school we're going to look at these target capacities based upon function versus old construction capacity and that is all that i have

[01:45:26] today and chairman herzberg we're going to try to use a consistent number from this point going forward and it'll be that target number that you see on these slides so that you we when you go visit a school where you get data from it should all have a same target number and this is our established target number based upon this study thank you mr chairman so everyone will be on the same page whether it's here with a presentation it's a school board tour or it's an application for a rezoning coming to the board of supervisors so i greatly appreciate that improvement i do have

[01:46:04] have a question for you ma'am yes so I've heard that fifth graders will be able to stay in their current school for fifth grade if they're in the area being redistricting is that right that is part of what will go to the school board next month some of those considerations that will be part of the implementation plan so one thing I'd like to get an answer to is so you have a brother in fifth grade with a second grade brother so in part of our planning

[01:46:40] for that and brainstorming we've talked about what happens with siblings so we're we're including that thought and how to approach that well that's good thank you we just don't want to get ahead of our school board because they haven't all seen that yet right I understand I just you know these questions have been asked of me and I'll tell you mr. Hertzberg and this is you know we keep trying to say it over and over and over again we're trying to get a plan established we got a plan established we've now delayed a year for implementation we will we will then work through implementation based upon the input from our professionals which is what we're now trying to do and but

[01:47:19] everybody wants to we want to we want to skip some parts here you just got to let us get a plan approved and then I encourage all of our and they're probably more watching y'all than they do that watch our meetings but it is encouraging to know that that we are trying to do this in deliberate steps we're going to vote on a plan then we're going to hear the recommendations of the professionals you've heard us say including the principles so that we're getting full input and then we're going to go back and look at what have been the best practices for the last two times we've done this which was Hanover and Attlee and then we will then also look at what else is best practices in

[01:47:56] region and then we will listen to their recommendations to the board the board will have we have started doing work sessions prior to going into our open meeting so that we can answer all get questions answered and stuff so that when we go in our board meeting we end up having a lot of the information up front we've already worked on it in the afternoon before we get to the to the meeting and then we will then make a motion but we're going to give at least a year and there is as uh our interim superintendent said there's a lot of opportunity here for even for variances and stuff if it makes sense this is not a let's punish people this is us trying to come up with

[01:48:36] solutions that can work for the best we possibly can with the information we have today and i think over the next two months they will see some real positivity come out of this and delaying it a year has really seemed to help at least the people that are talking to us saying thank you for that because it gives us time to try to get our ducks in order and we want to make sure we understand the plan that we're that we approved the recommendation is we will implement all of the plan next year a year from now except for those moving to washington and henry but everybody else will be moved in a year

[01:49:13] does that make sense thank you very much and sir on april 9th i i can send it over to the board of of supervisors and it will either still be in draft as recommended or it will be in approved for action so either way I'll be able to send it one way or the other on April 9th very good thank you any other questions or comments for Terry's done okay thank you thank you for all your diligent work very much okay so we do need to wind down to the workshop I do have some general comments I'd like to make while our school partners are still

[01:49:52] in the room any other comments from board members mr hersberg i'm sorry i interject but i want to make sure everybody knows this stone just got off an airplane she came back from vacation to be able to be here with us today so when we talk about team hanover we're pretty proud of our staff we're pretty proud of the people that work with us and it's a show of real commitment and how supportive it is to have our staff working together and doing what it's doing and so it's a real shout out to to Ms. Stone to come back to be here today and we appreciate that. We certainly appreciate all of your efforts all of you who are here today you could have said oh we're busy we can't make it

[01:50:30] figure it out on your own you didn't do that showed up and answered some tough questions I do have a tough comment it's not meant to be tough it's just the nature of the comment is and I'm going to be very straightforward highly concerned about the decision to demo Battlefield Park Elementary I believe from what I can tell here today, the decision was made in 2018. I certainly understand it. It's an old building. I have heard from a lot of citizens, generational families, they're not happy about that. Now I want to point something out. We have, I have uncovered three very significant

[01:51:10] changes that have occurred since 2018. So decisions were made in 2018 based upon the knowledge at that time and i respect those decisions but we heard that this the decision to renovate beaver dam elementary changed based upon new information isn't that right and that was an additional 16 million dollars correct we've also heard uh about the decision to change mechanicsville elementary

[01:51:43] from a renovation to a complete rebuild obviously now that's in the mid 40 millions correct uh and And the school that, the elementary school that would come after that, same thing. So these are very significant numbers.

[01:52:01] So my comments are that, and the nicest way I can say it is, I'm not happy hearing that Battlefield Park is going to be demoed based upon 2018 information when we now have much more information from citizens.

[01:52:26] I think we should have a community meeting and let these people come out like they did at Henry Clay. We did it at Henry Clay. It was a great format. I attended it with Supervisor Pritchard. People were able to come out. They were able to go up to boards, and they were able to put their sticky notes up there.

[01:52:42] They all had a say. And I think it was two separate nights, because not everybody can make it. So two separate nights was great. I do think there has been a potential idea to possibly preserve some of the classroom space that was on the northern side, northeastern side, that faces Hughes Road that could be used for pre-K or something else.

[01:53:04] I think that's a good idea, but the real controversial part is the historical part that's in the center. So what could be used for that? So I want to point out our county administrators aware, our deputy county administrators aware, in our facilities plan in the early 2030s, in our Hanover County facilities plan, there is a line item to build, to construct a parks and recs community center for the eastern corridor.

[01:53:35] That is in our facilities plan. Isn't that correct, Mr. County Administrator? It is. It's projected. It hasn't been defined location or anything, but it is projected to match the Montpelier Center, sir. I understand that, sir. Thank you very much. And in that information, it includes a $2 million estimate for a land purchase.

[01:53:57] Well, maybe if we can find a way, figure out a good way to, I mean, I know it would be a heavy renovation, but even when I look at the chart in the facilities study or the facilities plan, the cost of heavy renovation at times is lower than the cost of new construction especially when we have when we already have a parcel that's owned by the school board and they would be very generous to donate to know to donate that to the hanover county board of supervisors for parks and parks at least that portion i'm sure you've done it before you did it for the fire department and that was very gracious and thank you very much for that so

[01:54:32] this parcel already has water already has sewer already has electricity everything that we need So I do think that this is something that should seriously be considered, and it could end up being less expensive than tearing everything down and then buying something somewhere else and running water and sewer to it and paying all those new construction fees.

[01:54:53] So it's my hope today that the people in this room will have that on their radar and let the people come out and have to say. And if they don't show up, then they don't show up, okay? But if they do, I think their voice is important, and I think they will show up.

[01:55:09] So that concludes my comments for today. Mr. Hershberg, can I respond to what you just said? I would love for you to do that, Supervisor Pritchard. I think when we talk about cost, and our budgets are tight and cost is always going to be at the forefront, but I think there's all kinds of costs.

[01:55:29] And I think when any of us decides to do away with a building or any sort of edifice that has historical magnitude in our county, that that shouldn't be purely a dollars and cents financial decision.

[01:55:45] And I understand the school board owns this building, but I also think when we are thinking about tearing down a building that has historical consequence, that that is a real conversation that should be had with the board of supervisors and, in fact, the community, because your community is going to be as upset as my community was going to be if we just tore down a building without conversation and I think in my case the options because I don't want the county to spend money here in my case the option is gonna be very different than your case but that doesn't mean there aren't options and so I would just urge the school board that when there are

[01:56:25] issues like this this is a community concern not just a dollars concern thank you very much for your comments supervisor pritchard any other comments or questions from board members mr. may i just want to make one comment when we move to battlefield park we turn that back over to y'all i want to make sure you understand that's our that's that's what we have to do with any of our facilities when we're done using it it goes back to the board of supervisors just like we did with, go ahead.

[01:57:02] I guess I'll disagree with that. Can I hit the pause right there? You can. And I'm not saying you would do this, but if y'all make the decision to send a bulldozer out there, the decision's been made and then it's too late. Right, but we'd have to change. Yeah, we'd have to do a change. Don't worry, sir. I'm not arguing with you about that.

[01:57:17] I'm just telling you, it's not in our plans today is what I'm trying to say. There is no plan to demolition. That's why I said that. And if I could add, I think that we have had a lot of interest in what could happen with Battlefield Park.

[01:57:33] So as a as a chairman of the board and a vice chairman of the board, one of the things that we've talked about is take in the next year before the next CIP to have those discussions. We've talked about having a joint work session with the board of supervisors to determine, you know, what could be done and could something be added to the CIP?

[01:57:53] or is it, if it's not feasible, you know, or what our plan can be. But there's a lot of interest around how can Battlefield Park, parts of it, be repurposed. So the funds are there for a demolition if that's the final decision at the end of the day.

[01:58:12] But that decision has not been made. So I think what I hear from the Board of Supervisors and from our school board is we'd love to have that conversation. We want to be together. we want to work through it you know we are some of us are very interested in being a preschool center but a parks and rec center you know is also something that would greatly benefit the community and we certainly would like to investigate those options before the building is before a decision is made but the funds are in place to demolish it if that is the decision but we do not have to decide yet and we met with a general contractor and he told us that

[01:58:50] we wanted to do it as a demolition it would be possible to do it as a change order because of the anticipated amount so no decision has been made and we will work together with you to see what the next steps around that need to be thank you very much anyone else mr chair if i could add i know you all might not have this but this is uh the graphic of the current battlefield oh you do very good miss double and and you can see that we have a 1987 and a 1997 wing which i guess in

[01:59:27] contractor terminology that's relatively new and so why disrupt new when there could be an alternative use and again a kindergarten center again i'm i'm getting slightly ahead preschool i'm sorry as i was just whispered in my left ear um that it would also serve the schools around it that are within about a seven mile and you count the elementary schools if you know that area i know mr hudson mr herzburg definitely know that area because you can just go down the road and

[02:00:02] you're real close to pole green you're real close to laurel meadow you're real close to rural point i mean do i need to go on you understand where i'm coming from and so it would serve at least five or six other schools and that's kind of what we've been talking about and i think what dr penicuff was talking about a workshop on this topic would be uh something i think very valuable going forward thank you sir thank you sir anyone else mr podesky mr chair um just i don't want to make assumptions but if we're wrapping up the budget component of today's meeting i just wanted

[02:00:42] to sort of summarize if that would be okay it would be sir please do um mr chair and first thank the school board all all the team uh for working together because there was some good discussion and depth of information provided that i i believe addressed some of the concerns that the board had had as we move forward the budget public hearing moves into next week it's always within this board's prerogative not only till budget adoption but even after adoption to make changes however what we present to the public is what we're trying to foreshadow not only for the upcoming budget but multiple years of capital i think the concerns mr hersbury i hope you heard

[02:01:21] that that your concerns on battlefield there is time to have those addressed and amongst the boards and so no decision as we're sitting here right now is for battlefield to come down that can be changed modified amended as we move forward should it be the the board's desire certainly we can help you with projected costs and operational for that full picture conversation The question as we move forward, just so staff's prepared for the budget presentation,

[02:01:54] I have not heard any motions of change based on what was introduced as relating to Mechanicsville being the next campus school. The final campus school that was introduced into the five-year plan was not identified. It's just listed as additional campus school right now.

[02:02:13] I don't want to assume from the schools, and they haven't suggested their perspective, But based on the data presented today, it sounds like Elmont would be possibly under consideration next, but they haven't declared that as a board. Our public hearing would include the introduced operational budget and the capital as presented today unless amended today by this board, and certainly that could be changed after the public hearings, but I just want to make sure that this board is still comfortable moving forward as introduced.

[02:02:48] any combat comments or feedback from mr badeski i still have some concerns but i'm not prepared to make any changes today sir thank you sir okay all right well that concludes our budget workshop for today i was hoping it would be finished by four o'clock mr eikenberry look at that clock it's 358.

[02:03:15] that is right on time so let's take a five minute recess for the purpose of clearing the room then we will go into the closed session uh agenda item okay five-minute recess thank you

[02:04:18] We had gone dead with the house out there, but still couldn't find the contact. But, you know, we just, if it was something new, we would have to. Oh, it would be a game changer for the parking lot. Oh, yeah. It really would. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, like I said, I hate to introduce.

[02:04:34] The time to do it was when I introduced it to him back in. It was in February. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and we'll be charting.

[02:05:00] Double-sided.

[02:10:24] we need to vote board is back in session next on the agenda is closed session agenda item mr

[02:16:04] stoneman thank you mr chair i would like to make the motion uh that the board of supervisors enter into closed session under the following authority pursuant to virginia code section 181 discussion for a candidate for employment uh deputy county administrator

[02:16:58] okay the time is 4 31 p.m the board is back in session chair recognizes vice chair stoneman thank you mr chair i'd like to make a motion that the board of supervisors certify that the the closed session only public business matters lawfully exempted from the open meeting

[02:17:34] requirements of the freedom of information act and only such public business matters as were identified in the motion of closed session were discussed second there is a motion and the second all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye aye any opposed hearing none the the board is back in open session next on the agenda is recess i would like to make a comment that at 5 30 p.m there is an informal reception for our engaged hanover graduates that'll be 5 30

[02:18:12] p.m. the board will be in recess until 6 p.m. hello everyone it is 6:01 p.m. I'll

[02:20:25] now call the Hanover County Board of Supervisors meeting back to order next on the agenda agenda item 8 engage Hanover graduation for a presentation I would like to invite all board members who would like to participate to please

[02:20:40] feel free to come down front for a presentation okay everyone I'd like to

[02:21:36] take this time to recognize a very special group of individuals our engage Hanover Citizen Academy graduates over the past five months these citizens have dedicated their time to learning more about how Hanover County operates they've heard directly from our County leaders visited departments and gained a deeper understanding of the services and programs that impact our community every day.

[02:22:06] Their participation in this program reflects a strong commitment to civic engagement and a genuine interest in the future of Hanover County. They've asked great questions, shared valuable insights, and most importantly, strengthened the connection between our local government and the people that we serve.

[02:22:26] On behalf of the Board of Supervisors, I want to thank each of you for taking part in this program. We hope you leave with not only a greater understanding of county government, but also a continued desire to be involved in shaping our community.

[02:22:45] Thank you very much. I'll now introduce Mr. John Badesky, County Administrator. Good evening. First, to the graduates of the program, thank you. Thank you for taking the valuable time to join us for five months.

[02:23:02] Take time away from your families, other things of importance in your lives, to learn about your local government. Some folks really think we do one thing and you learn another when you go through a program and spend the time here. I hope you found that the staff, the constitutional officers that you've had the pleasure to meet with are all caring individuals that love this community, love it as much as you do and want to make it a better place for those that follow.

[02:23:32] time and commitment is valued in many ways. By the way, whether you knew it or not, you are now 21 additional potential board committee members and assignees for additional work. But that's because you have deeper knowledge and understanding. And that's due to not only the time we spent with you, but the time that we learned from you in this program. The questions that you asked throughout the sessions, glad I have a different tie on tonight, but the questions that you asked make us better employees for your local government and we'll continue to shape this program as we

[02:24:08] move forward for all of those that are here with us tonight or watching and streaming this is just the beginning to quote my friend dan johnson this was the first time this and that should be an honor that i hope you really take pride in as we establish this program there's only one time to be the first class and and you are the inaugural class of engage hanover thank you you will shape how this program serves residents for years to come and we want you to know that hopefully that the engagement that you had throughout this program this is ongoing this is how we operate your

[02:24:46] government every day and while we don't always get the opportunity to really peek behind the curtain and share all the day-to-day operations we want you to know we're better because of you we want you to know we're better for you and so thank you for taking that opportunity really want you to tell your family and friends because we will be announcing the upcoming class uh in in in weeks to come here and we will be continuing this uh for for hopefully years to come so on behalf of county administration and all of the staff and constitutional officers that had the opportunity to join you over the past five months thank you

[02:25:23] thank you for letting us share that time with you as well and i'd be remiss if i didn't thank Kristin, Alice, Shelby, Sandra, all the departments and constitutional officers, thank you for your work and leadership in this process.

[02:25:39] So with that, Kristin, I'm going to turn it over to you, and we will commence the graduation. Thank you. Hello, everyone. I have to say, we couldn't have had a better class for the inaugural Engaged Hanover Citizens Academy.

[02:25:57] You guys were great. You were curious. You had ideas. You had suggestions. And I've told each and every one of you that your feedback has already helped shape and improve this program for the next class and the next class after that. We didn't know what to expect with this being the first academy.

[02:26:13] So every time you've shared what you liked, what you didn't like, what you thought was so-so, we took that to heart and we are going to be meeting to make this an even more dynamic experience for the next class. So they'll have you to thank and I'll send them your way so they can give you the kudos.

[02:26:29] It's been great to watch you learn and connect and become more engaged in Hanover County. So I'm very pleased to recognize each one of you now. If you come up, as I call your name, you can receive your certificates over here and shake hands with the board.

[02:26:47] Let's start with Lisa Brown, Tim Brown, Bertel Bunyard, Crystal Delk, Frank Delk, Jana Duncan, Patrick Ferretti, Susan Ferretti, Danielle Geist, Ed Gooding, getting ahead of you, Tana Hampton,

[02:27:23] Stephen Helton, Nicholas Hoare, Dan Johnson, April McNulty, Lorena Oskins, Stuart Oskins, Katie Pegram, Kristen Stevens, and Billy Wells.

[02:27:56] Thank you all and congratulations.

[02:31:08] - Okay, moving on, congratulations again our graduates next on the agenda is agenda item 9 citizens time is there anyone here who wishes to address the board during citizens time I have one card any additional please show your hands I see one additional that's a total of two so far citizens time is an opportunity for members of the public to present comments and information to the board regarding any matter within the scope of the board's authority that is not on today's agenda for a public

[02:31:46] hearing there are cards available in the back of the room you are not required to fill out a card however it makes it easier for our board clerk to get the spelling of your name correct and gives us your contact information in case we need to follow up with you after your comments speakers who wish to address the board are requested to follow these guidelines each speaker is asked to give your name and the magisterial district in which you live speakers will have up to five minutes to address the board. The vice chair this evening will be Mr. Stoneman. He will keep track of each speaker's

[02:32:25] time and will try to give you a warning before your time is expired if needed. Speakers are asked to address their comments to the board and not the audience. Okay, first is Mr. Dan Johnson.

[02:32:41] Mr. Johnson, please state your name and the magisterial district in which you live. You will have up to five minutes, sir. Thank you. Dan Johnson, South Anna District. I would like to title this, Telling Our Story. Thank you, Mr. Padeski, for initiating Engage Hanover Citizens Academy. And Mrs. Kristen Smith Dunlop, I want to thank you and your team in developing and presenting this program with perfection. I've lived in Hanover County exactly 30 years,

[02:33:16] and I felt I knew a great deal about Hanover County, making frequent contact with Hanover's finest, Hanover Sheriff's Department, our school system, Department of Economic Development, and having served on a number of county committees. But after taking this program, I realized how little I knew about Hanover County. There is a clear message that every department and staff

[02:33:48] projects. How can we help in making your experience with Hanover County enjoyable and rewarding? thank you for giving us the opportunity to be of assistance. Mr. Berdesky, please continue this program, and I hope you will gently encourage every Hanover staff member to participate in this program. I want to encourage board members to also become an engaged Hanover student. I

[02:34:27] I encourage every resident in Hanover County to become an engaged Hanover participant. To see the vast improvements made in Hanover County in the past three years is overwhelming. A very famous hunter and guide, Mr. Jim Shockey, says at the beginning of his shows, I have been hunting for 45 years and I am just getting started.

[02:34:57] citizens of Hanover County, your board of supervisors, county administration, and staff are sending a message loud and clear. We are just getting started. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

[02:35:20] Next, please state your name, the magisterial district in which you live, and you will have up to five minutes. Kristen Stevens in Mechanicsville. Good evening. While I wasn't able to be present this afternoon for your earlier session. I was able to listen in to the meeting and the budget discussions with the school board. I have a few comments and observations that I'd like to share. First of all, thank you for making the audio and video of your work session available.

[02:35:56] I'm still waiting for the school board to do the same with their work sessions prior to their meetings, as it would be helpful to people who want to listen in. Second, I'm concerned with the apparent lack of understanding and communication between the board of supervisors and the school board. You all had some really valid questions and concerns today relating to the rebuild versus a renovation of our elementary schools, but I already had the answers to the questions you guys were asking. Why do I know more about what's going on in our school board than you guys do? There's no good excuse for that, honestly. You guys are the governing body, and you are the pointers of

[02:36:35] our school board members. You should be fully aware of what is going on and how the money is being spent. How are you going to appoint new members in the next month or two if you don't understand what challenges they're going to be facing in the next four years of their appointment? Mr. Herzberg, you have encouraged the school board to vote themselves a raise, and you said you have their back and support it. And yet, you turned around in the next breath and asked why it costs so much to build new schools. Which is it? Do we have the money to spare for some school board raises, or should it be put towards the new schools? Perhaps if we weren't spending an additional

[02:37:10] $97,000 on the A Better Way Athletics contract to teach our coaches and student-athletes to be decent people, maybe if we weren't wasting money on nonsensical issues like book bans, I could agree with the raise. But I'll be honest, I'm not really impressed with the way this current school board has addressed community concerns or the way they have treated parents at meetings.

[02:37:34] please as you move forward make an effort to pay closer attention to the school board meetings listen to the public comments and hear what the parents have to say make an effort to talk with the teachers staff and administrators at all of the schools not just the ones in your district because the choices you guys are making especially with the school board appointments and the budget directly affect the entire county our students our taxes our houses it's not just affecting your little portion of the county please make the effort thank you thank you for your comments ma'am

[02:38:14] is there anyone else who wishes to address the board at this time seeing none i will now close citizens time and i will take a quick moment of personal privilege uh since my name was mentioned to address comments the school board has not had a race since 2006. they currently earn eight thousand dollars per year and some of them work a full-time job on the school board and my message to them was y'all are working very hard you're providing a lot of your time your energy your

[02:38:54] hearts into our education system and for the first time in 19 years i think it's time for you to have a raise so that concludes my comments on that moving on agenda item 10 public hearing ordinance 25-05 requests to add Giles Farm subdivision to the Hanover County Recycling Service District for the purpose of funding curbside recycling services. Magisterial District Chickahominy.

[02:39:29] Mr. Randy Hardman, Director of Public Works. Thank you, sir. Good evening, Chairman, members of the board. I'm here tonight to hold a public hearing for ordinance 2505 request to add Giles Farm to the Hanover County Recycling Services District for the purpose of funding recycling services. Virginia Code 15.2-2400 authorizes localities to impose assessments on real estate for the cost of certain public services. According to the Recycling Service District application procedure, a minimum of 80% of the community must express interest in being

[02:40:09] part of the Recycling District. If 80% is obtained, a public hearing process will be initiated for adoption of the community into the Recycling District. To recap the events for Giles Farm, On May the 16th, 2024, a meeting was held with the Giles Farm community and county staff to answer questions about the recycling program and begin the petition process.

[02:40:32] Petitions were returned and signed to the county prior to October 31st, 2024. Giles Farm had 442 homes to be serviced for curbside recycling. To satisfy the 80% requirement, 355 signatures were required. 358 homes signed in favor of bringing the curbside collection to the Giles Farm community.

[02:40:54] County staff reviewed the petition and verified 5% of the signatures. The annual cost for this service is currently $46 and the anticipated cost to be $52 in the next year. The rate is subject to consumer price index updates and or new contracts and is billed on a real estate tax for each residential property within the service district.

[02:41:19] 96-gallon carts will be provided and delivered to each resident, and Giles Farm will be added into the larger service district if approved. To reiterate, 358 homes of the 442 homes signed the petition, which is about 81%.

[02:41:39] Just to familiarize everybody, if you don't know where Giles Farm is, it's directly across Atlee Station Road from Atlee High School. The smaller lots you see in the front are townhomes. The rest of the subdivision is detached single-family dwellings. And this is going to be an every-other-week pickup curbside through a service agreement with the Central Virginia Waste Management Authority.

[02:42:05] And the items that can be recycled are the typical materials, aluminum, steel cans, paper, cardboard, plastic containers, glass, and cartons. And this is a map of all the other communities within Hanover that have a recycling service district.

[02:42:23] pretty much encompassing by the 301, New Ashcake, Sliding Hill, and Atlee Station Road corridor. At that point, if you have any questions before we open up the public hearing. Any questions or comments from board members?

[02:42:41] Supervisor Pritchard. Thank you very much, Mr. Harmon, or Mr. Chair and Mr. Harmon. First of all, I'm very much in favor of this, and I don't want to set the wrong expectation, but about two years ago, I got a letter from a citizen in my district using language that was so choice that people would have thought it was me writing the email rather than the citizen.

[02:43:04] And his neighborhood had had recycling for about three years. He didn't know that. And when the rates went up, he decided we were imposing recycling on him.

[02:43:21] So he'd had it for three years. He'd been paying for it for three years, and somehow he just didn't know we had it. And what I want to make sure of is while 81% of the people signed in favor of this, do we or does the Neighborhood Association, does somebody send out a letter to all of the community to say, hey, heads up, y'all voted, you get this?

[02:43:43] I believe we do send a letter out to everyone on that list. So the property list that we look to verify for signatures is the same list that we would look at the tax records for. Yes, and we would notify them. I figured it was an anomaly, but just to be careful. Any other questions or comments from board members?

[02:44:06] I just want to make a quick comment, if I could, Mr. Stoneman. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just just want to say that anything that we can do to encourage recycling is as a member of the Central Virginia Waste Management. I realized that, you know, our capacity for garbage is dwindling quickly.

[02:44:23] And so all of these efforts is are vital to us being successful, managing our garbage. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Stoneman. Anyone else? seeing none this is on the agenda for a public hearing thank you sir we will now open the public hearing is there anyone here to speak in favor of this ordinance amendment please approach ma'am please state your name your magisterial district and you will have up to five minutes okay my name

[02:45:00] is vanessa grooms and i am in the chickahominy district i wish to express my full support for implementation and promoting of the recycling initiative within the giles neighborhood as a member of this evolving community i believe that embracing sustainable practices like recycling is vital for protecting our environment and improving the quality of life for current and future generations recycling has numerous benefits such as reducing waste sent to the landfills conserving

[02:45:34] natural resources and lowering greenhouse gas emissions by adopting recycling programs in our neighborhood. We can make significant strides towards environmental stewardship while fostering a sense of responsibility and pride amongst our residents, youth, and adults. Moreover, a neighborhood-wide recycling initiative can encourage community engagement by providing opportunities for education, collaboration, and participation in eco-friendly initiative. Together we can create a greener, cleaner, and more sustainable Giles neighborhood. I strongly

[02:46:13] urge community leaders residents organizations to support and prioritize recycling efforts let us work together I thank you for your time and attention something goes out to everyone in reference to thank you for your comments anyone else who wishes to speak in favor of this ordinance amendment please state your name your magisterial district and you will have up to five minutes hi my name is Nicole Paulson I'm a resident from the Giles neighborhood in the

[02:46:52] Chickahominy District, and I am here today in support of adding the recycling program to our neighborhood. I am very excited to be here today because our neighborhood has been working on this initiative for over a year. Standing here means we are that much closer to getting recycling in July, which is very exciting. This is truly a win for all of us. This is a win for our neighbors, our district, our county landfills, and our planet. My husband and I decided to move to

[02:47:24] Hanover in 2021 for the amazing schools and sense of community. When we moved into Giles, I was a bit shocked that curbside recycling wasn't a thing. I was honestly amazed. I guess I was a bit naive.

[02:47:41] I just assumed recycling was a standard amenity in most neighborhoods. We've always recycled. It's always been a part of my life. It's a small annual fee. It's good for the planet. It reduces waste in our landfills, and honestly, it's a no-brainer. So naturally, I spoke with our HOA, and I wanted to know what we needed to do to bring the program to Giles. I joined the recycling committee. I learned about the county's requirement to get the program, the mandate of the 80% that you heard

[02:48:16] about earlier. In our neighborhood, that's about 358 hard signatures, which I can assure you, getting anyone to sign anything in person is a challenge. Tasks seemed a bit daunting, but we did it. Our community of a dozen volunteers on our committee, we spent all summer and early fall hours and hours going door to door collecting signatures. Myself and the many members of our committee learned overwhelmingly our neighbors wanted recycling. Neighbors were all in the same boat as us, taking numerous trips to the transfer station each month. We all were collecting

[02:48:55] massive piles of cardboard in our garage as a result of our lifestyle and online shopping. Although the process was quite time-consuming, I found it truly was a rewarding experience. I got to meet and talk to a ton of my neighbors that otherwise I may have never met. Each time that I loaded my three-year-old into the wagon to go on our many canvassing efforts with the many other volunteers in our neighborhood. We got to have meaningful conversations when she asked, what are we doing? I got to have many meaningful conversations with her about the importance of

[02:49:31] civic consciousness and recycling, the value of recycling and caring for our planet. And that is why I'm here today. I'm so excited for the board to approve this initiative today. And I'm even more excited even more excited to see the shiny new recycling bin at my curbside so thank you so much thank you for your comments anyone else who wishes to speak in favor please state your name your magisterial district you will have up to five minutes thank you kelly goudreau chickahomedy

[02:50:06] district and giles resident and i'm here this evening to ask for your support for the ordinance 2505 which would add us to the recycling program i had the pleasure of being part of the recycling effort gathering the signatures in our neighborhood as well and we're very excited about this moving along the process getting closer to the finish line according to the county website there are 22 other neighborhoods in hanover who already have these services and we're very excited about having giles added to that list thank you for your time and hopefully for your support and good evening

[02:50:41] thank you for your comments anyone else who would like to speak in favor seeing none is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition seeing none we will now close the public hearing supervisor floyd thank you i just loved your comments especially about bringing your daughter around and meeting all your neighbors that's wonderful so obviously i think that this is a great idea recycling is a wonderful thing to do i motion to approve the establishment of a service district through

[02:51:18] ordinance 2505 giles farm service district for the purpose of funding solid waste collection in the nature of recycling service and authorize the county administrator to take all actions necessary to implement the program second there is a motion second any comments from board members seeing none we will call for the vote all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed hearing none service district has been created congratulations okay next on the agenda we will

[02:51:55] now go into our planet public hearings mr andrew pompey deputy director of the planning department thank you sir planning and zoning is a special exception request in the south anna district and this is a request to permit an accessory family housing unit off of gun barrel road so again this property is off of gun barrel road near its intersection with old ridge road this is northwest of montpelier it's outside of our suburban service area in an area designated rural and agricultural the subject property and most of the surrounding properties in the area are zoned

[02:52:34] a1 agricultural in the a1 zoning district an accessory family housing unit requires approval of a special exception by the board of supervisors the applicants currently live on the property and use that property as their primary residence and then the accessory family housing unit that's proposed we use for their daughter it will be 429 square feet in size with one bedroom it would share the driveway and septic system be located in the side yard it have two additional parking spots all these requirements or all these characteristics align with the requirements of the zoning ordinance for accessory family housing unit this is a picture of the existing main house on the right and on the

[02:53:13] left is the aerial of the property and where the accessory unit will go you can see there's the existing residence and then a detached garage already on the property and the proposed accessory housing unit will go next to the driveway on the edge of the woods along the tree line this is what the accessory family housing would look like again it's 429 square feet and it's similar in style and character as the existing home on the property the property itself is 5.21 acres and again this property and surrounding properties are zoned a1 it'll be spaced far from other properties that are

[02:53:48] also used for residential purposes and it won't generate significant noise odor vibration it will be visible from gun barrel road and old ridge road but there is some screening provided by trees no additional traffic congestion and again it meets all the requirements for this type of unit staff is proposing five conditions for the special exception these conditions are typical with this type of use the size is limited to 429 square feet that's the max allowed by the ordinance elevation and colors will be similar to the main building this will be valid for three years following approval or until the family member no longer resides in the unit and then adherence to all building inspections health department and other

[02:54:26] applicable development regulations this concludes staff's um presentation the applicant is here tonight they don't have a formal presentation plan but they're happy to answer any questions the board may have any questions or comments from mr pompey from board members supervisor dibble thank you sir um mr prompey can you let us know what happens after three years or after the resident no longer lives there so once the accessory family family housing unit is is not occupied by the family member it can remain on the property as a guest house which means that it can

[02:55:06] only be used for guests of the owner and occupied for up to 90 days thank you i appreciate that just want to make sure that we all heard and understood yeah thank you any other questions or comments from board members okay seeing none thank you mr pompey this is on the agenda for a public hearing we will now open the public hearing is the applicant present please approach would you like to make a presentation or address the board okay you're available for questions yes okay but

[02:55:46] you do not wish to address the board at this time is that correct correct any questions from board members for the applicant thank you ma'am thank you next we will see if is there anyone here who wishes to speak in favor of the application is there anyone here who wishes to speak in opposition of the application seeing none we will now close the public hearing supervisor dibble thank you mr chairman i love cases like this it's always a pleasure and an honor to be part of

[02:56:25] keeping our families together taking care of each other family is so important to all of us here in hanover county so i applaud what you're doing and support this case and move to approve sc 2025 dash 0004 subject to the submitted sketch plan and the recommended conditions second second there is a motion and a second are there any question or discussion amongst board members seeing none we'll call for the vote all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed

[02:57:05] none application is approved mr pompey the next planning public hearing item is also a request in the south ana district and this is a request to rezone from a1 to rs to allow one additional lot for a family member for a property on cedar lane near its intersection with elmont road so again this property is along cedar lane this part of the county is within the suburban service area which is that part of the county designated for more growth and development in this particular property is designated suburban neighborhood residential with a recommended density of one and a half to

[02:57:40] three units per acre this property is zoned a1 as our many surrounding properties the adjacent property is zoned rs and that was also approved for a family division in 2010. this is an aerial view of the property there is an existing home on the property where the applicant lives and then the applicant's proposing an additional lot for his daughter and the existing home is seen on the right of the screen where the existing driveway is and then again the area of the property i'll show a conceptual plan where the house will go on the next slide this shows how that new lot will be

[02:58:15] created the existing house is on the lot outlined in orange it'll be roughly one and a half acres and then the new lot created for the family member will be two and a third acres with the building site behind the existing home access will be shared per the proper conditions and conceptual plan from cedar lane so there'll be one entrance point serving the two lots this use is compatible with surrounding existing rural residential uses where lot sizes along this portion of cedar lane range from one to 18 acres again the home site for the new lot is set behind the existing home and the applicant has proffered to preserve existing trees on the property this will help

[02:58:53] maintain the rural character and the view from cedar lane a shared access has been proffered as i mentioned and shown the conceptual plan which will minimize access points to cedar lane the applicant has proffered sever seven conditions these are pretty typical for rs family divisions they include adherence to the conceptual plan tree preservation lots outside of the building or trees outside the building area that are five and a half inch caliper above must be maintained bricker stone foundations right-of-way reservation of 40 feet from the center line of cedar lane shared access to the property and then completing a wetland certification and perenniality study

[02:59:30] at the time of subdivision plat review the planning commission reviewed this request recently and recommended approval with a vote of seven to zero no members of the public spoke during the public hearing and that concludes staff's presentation the applicant is here tonight they don't have a formal presentation planned but they're happy to answer any questions the board may have any questions or comments from board members thank you mr pompey this is on the agenda for a public hearing i will now open the public hearing i understand the applicant is present

[03:00:06] did you wish to address the board or just be willing to answer any questions please state your name and your magisterial district my name is luke scott and we are in the south end of district so i appreciate the work that our supervisor mrs dibble has done she's been exceptional in helping us with this we're excited for your hopeful support um my father-in-law is aging and my wife is an only child and he's a widower so we're excited to hopefully be able to be on the property with him so he can stay in place and age and also spend time with his granddaughter so thank you guys for

[03:00:45] your help thank you for your comments is there anyone here who wishes to speak in favor of this application is there anyone here who wishes to speak in opposition seeing none we will now close the public hearing supervisor dibble thank you mr chair and sir i do commend you for your efforts to preserve your family relationships and enjoyed working with both you and your wife and wish you well and i'm always here to help and with that uh this checks all the boxes with regard to

[03:01:21] compatibility within the area and does protect our rural care you should as you drive along cedar lane so with that in mind i will move to approve rezoning 2024 yes 00023 with the proffers dated march the 4th 2025. second there is a motion and a second any discussion amongst board members call for the vote all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed application approved

[03:01:55] Mr. Pompey, the next public hearing item is in the Chickahominy District, and this is an industrial rezoning request that would accommodate reuse of an already developed property off of Old Rich Food Road.

[03:02:10] So, again, this property is located off of Old Rich Food Road in an area that has developed with industrial uses, and it's designated industrial in the Congress of Plan. It's just southwest of the Interstate 295 U.S. Route 301 interchange adjacent to the Chickahominy River, again, in an industrial area.

[03:02:30] the property itself has mixed zoning a portion of the property is zoned m2 and it was rezoned m2 in 1973 and then the remainder of the property is zoned a1 currently as part of this request the applicant is requesting that the entire property be zoned m2 as i mentioned this property isn't an industrial area it's currently being used as a contractor's equipment storage yard which also has an office building the applicant is proposing to redevelop the site for heavy equipment sales service and storage the construction service vehicles will be stored on the property so there will be an office building and then that outdoor

[03:03:06] storage area this is what the site looks like right now again there's an existing building on the property and there's a large gravel area along old rich food row between the road and the power lines the applicant as shown on the proper conceptual plan would be redeveloping that property and there'd be a new office building built in the center of the property with the storage area and accessory uses to the side and rear away from Old Rich Food Road. I will note this conceptual plan has been modified since the Planning Commission reviewed the case. When the Planning Commission reviewed the case, the original building was going to remain and now the applicant is proposing a new

[03:03:44] building on the site. This is what that new building would look like. It'd be up to 44 feet tall. The max height in this district is 45 feet and again incorporates brick stone with an office building and service area in the rear. In terms of compatibility, this area is industrial and is designated industrial. There are existing industrial uses on three sides with the Chickahominy River to the rear which is the boundary with Henrico County. Surrounding properties are zoned M2 and A1 and this area is designated for industrial uses and there actually is

[03:04:18] similar uses in this area along Richview Road. The applicant has proffered seven conditions which relate to development the site they include adherence to that conceptual plan that i showed dedication of right-of-way along old rich food road architecture including the materials and elevations i showed screening and mechanical equipment the use of monument signs limiting lighting to 30 feet in height and that existing building would be removed within 60 days of a certificate of occupancy being issued for the new building on the property the planning commission reviewed this request and voted to recommend approval with a vote of six to zero

[03:04:55] no members of the public spoke during the public hearing and that concludes staff's presentation the applicant's representative is here tonight they don't have a formal presentation plan but they'd be happy to answer any questions the board may have as well thank you mr pompey any questions from board members thank you sir this is on the agenda for a public hearing i will now open the public hearing is the applicant present please state your name your magisterial district or the

[03:05:29] entity that you represent good evening mr chairman members of the board my name is anne miller and i'm a planner with balls and associates representing the applicant this evening we want to thank mr pompey for his presentation and all the work that he and other staff members have put into this case we do agree with everything in the staff report the conditions we put forth and believe that the report does a great job outlining everything but if you all have any questions or need additional detail i'm happy to provide it this time any questions from board

[03:06:00] members thank you thank you is there anyone here who wishes to speak in favor of the application is there anyone here who wishes to speak in opposition of the application seeing none we will now close the public hearing this is in the magisterial district of chickahominy supervisor floyd thank you mr chair um i just want to clarify for if there's anyone watching this this is not the controversial skinnell case um that backs up to burnside farms just

[03:06:36] want to clarify that um this is in the industrial area of richard old richard road there are no residential homes that would be impacted if you have been out there and seen the other carter sites they look very nice well maintained carter's cat is a great company hanover is happy to have them i think it will be a great project and will look wonderful it fits with the area and there has not been any opposition so i motion to approve rez 2024 00019 with the proffers dated

[03:07:13] march 10th 2025. second there is a motion and a second any discussion amongst board members seeing none we will call for the vote all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed application approved mr pompey the next two items will be discussed concurrently there are two companion requests in the ashland district to support and allow the installation of a memorial in the brown grove community the property is located along ash cake road near its intersection

[03:07:49] with Egypt Road across from Brown Grove Baptist Church. Brown Grove Baptist Church is proposing to construct a memorial for the Brown Grove School, which burned down in the 1940s. This particular property is currently zoned M2. It was rezoned at M2 in 1994, with that zoning case amended in 2020 for the Wegmans Distribution Center. The church is now requesting to revise the proffers for the two-acre site to facilitate the construction of the new memorial. Some of the Existing proffers make it difficult to develop the site for this proposed Memorial, particularly the 75 foot buffer along Ashcake road.

[03:08:24] The historic school site is close to that buffer closer to Ashcake road. So they are requesting some changes to the proffered conditions. This property is on the edge of the suburban service area and the Brown Grove community. This side of the road is within the suburban service area, designated suburban neighborhood residential.

[03:08:40] The opposite side of Ashcake road is outside the suburban service area and designated rural agricultural. Again, this property is zoned M2 and has been zoned M2 since 1994. Many of the surrounding properties to the north, east, and west are zoned A1.

[03:08:57] This is an aerial view of the site. Currently, it's wooded, and again, Brown Grove Baptist Church is on the opposite side of Ashcake Road. This is the conceptual plan that was submitted by the applicant that has been proffered. It shows the site of the memorial in the magenta color.

[03:09:13] There will be a small parking area with three parking spots to serve the memorial, the entrance across from one of the entrances to brown grove baptist church it shows the buffers there'll be a 30 foot buffer along ash cake road a 40 foot buffer to the east adjacent to residential properties and then 100 foot buffer to the rear this is what the applicant is proposing for the site this frame structure would mark and memorialize the site of the brown grove school it'd be similar to pole green church that's on rural point road whole green church is on the right on the picture and then what they're proposing here at this site is on the left

[03:09:51] again this site is within the brown grove community which is recognized in the history and culture section the comprehensive plan it is a on the national register of historic places is the brown grove rural historic district and this project addresses some of the recommendations in the conference of plan related to this project including community identification and the preservation of historic sites within the district the applicant is part of the proffer amendment rezoning case has proffered six conditions adherence to the conceptual plan maintaining a natural buffer in the natural buffer trees less than five inch caliper can be cleaned up

[03:10:26] and removed by existing vegetation five inch caliper and above must be maintained right away dedication along ash cake road planning inspection so within 30 days to completing the improvements planning staff will go out to make sure they align with the conceptual plan limiting lighting to 20 feet tall with house side shields and then limiting the size of signage in addition to the proffer amendment we're classifying this use as a promotional activity promoting the history and culture of the brown grove community there's a special exception request as rel there are 10 recommended conditions many of these conditions align with the proffer conditions the additional

[03:11:05] guidance are included in conditions 6 through 10 that's screening the parking lot with an evergreen hedge there's a small parking lot but that would require some evergreen plantings along the edge of it maintaining the parking lot service and surface in good condition allowing up to three church related events on the property per year from dawn to dusk this special exception will be valid for two years unless the use is substantially underway and then the standard condition with all our special exceptions adherence to all development regulations the planning commission reviewed the proffer amendment portion of this request and recommended approval with a

[03:11:42] vote of 7 to 0 no members of the public spoke during that public hearing that concludes staff's presentation I'll be happy answer any questions the board may have at this time any questions from board members from mr. Pompey supervisor Pritchard I don't have a question mr. chairman I wanted to make sure as we go into this that you know sometimes public hearings get a little complicated but I want to make sure that everyone understands that Wegmans donated this property for this purpose as we begin the conversation thank you for your

[03:12:17] comment supervisor any other questions for mr. Pompey or comments from board members mr. Stoneman I'd just like to voice my support for this I think it's a step in the right direction to help the memorialize the legacy and I also think it highlights you know should this emotion pass that you know Hanover's commitment uh to the brown grove community and also the uh the importance of of a corporate citizenry and support and so i just want to voice that thank you thank you sir this is on the agenda

[03:12:53] for a public hearing we will now open the public hearing is the applicant present please approach sir please state your name the magisterial district in which you live or the entity which you represent thank you to the chair to the board members my name is roger brown ashland district and a member of Brown Grove Baptist Church.

[03:13:29] I have no other presentations to make other than what has been presented, but should you have any questions of me, I'd be glad to answer. Any questions for Roger Brown from board members? Thank you, sir. Thank you. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak in favor of the application?

[03:13:48] I want to be clear that we are having a public hearing for both the rezoning and the special exception. The public hearing is open for both. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak in favor of either applications?

[03:14:09] Is there anyone here who wishes to speak in opposition of either of the applications? Seeing none, we will now close the public hearing. This is in the Ashland District. Supervisor Pritchard. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[03:14:27] It has been my pleasure and my privilege over the last nine years to represent the Brown Grove community. And while I'm very proud of everyone I represent in Ashland, I don't know of any community that's worked harder to preserve and build their community with a sense of community.

[03:14:46] It's not just that people have tried to build back buildings, but they've come together as a community. I think this is very clear that this community was designated as the first rural historic district in Virginia. And that is through all the hard work of the Brown Grove Preservation Community Preservation Group.

[03:15:06] And so I am proud tonight to recommend approval of rezoning 20 24 dash zero zero zero two two with the proffers dated February 5th, 2025. Second, there is a motion and the second any discussion amongst board members.

[03:15:25] I have a comment I would like to add on to Supervisor Pritchard's comments about the very generous donation from Wegmans. I think it's important to point that out, that they made a land donation and a cash donation. That's being a good community neighbor for a very good cause.

[03:15:45] Okay, we will now call for the vote. All in favor, we are voting on REZ 2024-00022. Please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? That application is approved. Supervisor Pritchard.

[03:16:03] Sorry. would also like to move for approval of se 2025-00003 special exception for the promotional activity second there is a motion and a second any discussion amongst board members seeing none we'll call for the vote all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed that application is approved mr pompey the next two cases are also in the brown grove community there'll be separate presentations and separate public hearings even though they are related

[03:16:43] we're going to move farther down ash cake road and the first part or this next case is a request to amend the comprehensive plan it's a request to change the land use designation from suburban neighborhood residential to suburban high residential within a portion of the brown grove community centered on ash cake road virginia crane drive and johnson town road in the ashland district so for a little bit of background the conference of plan that's our long-range advisory document that establishes a vision of what hanover county could look like in 20 years one major component of the comprehensive plan that we use as we evaluate land use request is the general

[03:17:19] land use plan that's an advisory document that recommends and identifies where different use types and residential densities may be appropriate as we grow as a community it is general in nature it's not site specific so whereas zoning is regulatory and parcel specific the conference of plan general land use plan establishes areas as an advisory document there is a related rezoning request which spurred this conference of plan amendment this will be our next public hearing item but rez 2024-0014 is a request to rezone approximately seven acres to rm multi-family

[03:17:54] residential to allow development of 41 attached and detached condominium homes the board of of supervisors reviewed that particular request in January and that recommended or that project has a density that's higher than recommended in the general land use plan. So the board of supervisors requested that a comprehensive plan amendment be initiated and reviewed concurrently with the rezoning request. So this is where this request comes from and includes the area that is subject to that related zoning request. So this request would change this area's designation

[03:18:30] from suburban neighborhood residential to suburban high residential i'll show a map of the area but first i want to describe the different land use designations the general land use plan has multiple land use designations and these two are both residential their main difference is in terms of density so right now this area designated suburban neighborhood residential recommends single family homes at a density of one and a half to three units per acre with the rs zoning district being the corresponding zoning district this proposed amendment would change this area roughly 20 acres to suburban high residential with a recommended density of three to seven units per acre that allows higher intensity residential development does allow

[03:19:09] townhomes small-scale multi-family buildings as well as the single-family homes the corresponding zoning districts rrs and rm so it's the next level up in terms of residential densities in our comprehensive plan i'll have a zoom in of the map or in the area in a moment but this is what's changing so the white outlined area is the area we're talking about roughly 20 acres again right now it's in designated suburban neighborhood residential that's the yellow color in the map and the proposed change suburban high residential is shown on the right that area 20 acres roughly would change that designation as shown in orange some of the surrounding land use designations

[03:19:48] include highway commercial at the lewistown road interstate 95 interchange and then once you get closer to Virginia Crane Drive in the airport that area is designated industrial and then along Ashkake Road suburban neighborhood residential this is a close-up of the area so the proposed area is roughly 20 acres again it's not parcel specific it's a general area so it's roughly 20 acres the density if this is approved that's recommended would be go from one and a half to three units per acre to three to seven units per acre it would not change the underlying zoning but again the lane use designation would change this property or this area is located within the

[03:20:27] brown grove rural historic district ash cake road is on the one side of the area and then it goes down to virginia crane drive and encompasses either side of johnson town road as it intersects with ash cake road this just gives an overview of the different parcels within the area again this is not parcel specific but it shows how the parcels fit into the proposed area for suburban high residential and there's really three sub areas in this there's the west side of virginia crane drive that's roughly seven acres it also there's also a seven acre parcel that's the area

[03:21:05] that is included within the associated rezoning request and then johnson town road there's existing single family residential homes much of that is zoned rs already and the lots are roughly half acre and then the northern part of this area which is roughly four and a half acres there's three-ish parcels over there with the larger one being two and a half.

[03:21:28] So you have the Johnson town road area in this 20 acre area, a portion along Virginia crane drive and then the area closer to the Lewis town road, Ashcake road intersection, all of this encompasses 20 acres. Some of the things the board of supervisors may consider as they evaluate this particular request is changing the designation from suburban neighborhood residential to suburban high residential would allow for additional housing options in this particular community and as part of the county there are a mix of uses in this area industrial single-family residential as well as the more highway oriented uses closer to the

[03:22:06] interchange this particular designation could serve as a transition between those various uses not only would it be a transition there is a consideration that there are industrial uses in the area and the airport so how does this particular change fit in with those industrial uses in the proximity to the airport in terms of public utilities there are water and sewer existing infrastructure within this area and there is capacity for both those utilities in terms of school capacity there currently is school capacity this area is zoned for atley high school which is part of the boundary adjustment process atley high school may be over capacity in future

[03:22:42] years 2029 but the other schools are under capacity there are transportation improvements planned for the area there are funded improvements at lewistown and ashcake road for a roundabout as well as farther to the east at sliding hill mount herman peaks and ash cake road and then residents have expressed support for residential development as part of this zoning case as well as part of the outreaches in the conference of plan amendment the brown grove community had specific meetings where they expressed a desire for residential development the planning commission reviewed this request at an earlier meeting and recommended approval with a vote of seven to zero no members of the

[03:23:19] public spoke during that public hearing that concludes staff's presentation i'd be happy to answer any questions the board may have at this time any questions from board members for mr pompey thank you sir this is on the agenda for a public hearing we will now open the public hearing is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor of this request is there anyone who wishes to speak in

[03:23:50] opposition please state your name your magisterial district you'll have up to five minutes sir uh i'm here in favor i'm sorry good evening chairman hersberg and board supervisors my name is bob nelson i reside in the ashland district i testified in january and here to make peace the center of the brown grove community is its baptist church families have worshiped and prayed there for 155 years comprehensive plan endorses brown groves vision of residential development

[03:24:24] parishioners are as important as residents and families churches have supported residential rezonings this one adds 40 new homes near the church brown groves faith community should grow i support this rezoning request and the comprehensive plan amendment which changes the land use the board should approve both thank you thank you for your comments sir we will go back to anyone who wishes to speak in favor is there anyone else who wishes to speak in favor

[03:24:58] please state your name your magisterial district in which you live you will have up to five minutes okay i don't think i'll need all the time i have a question am i allowed to ask a question about the map before i speak in favor yeah um so the other map the the other one you the black and white one nana you have to say who you are i'm sorry my name is renata harris and i am in the ashland district okay man so you have five minutes for comments in there you can ask a question

[03:25:35] possible staff will answer okay it's not a back and forth question and answer okay ongoing process i just had a question about the johnson town road um the parcel where it says number two of if those were residential houses or not i'm just confused about the map um the way that johnson town road runs in between so the proposed amendment to increase the comprehensive plan density from three dwelling units to seven per acre in brown grove is more than just a technical adjustment

[03:26:12] it represents a visionary step toward meeting our involving housing needs while ensuring the vitality of this historic community by approving this amendment you are signaling signaling your commitment to creating a thriving hanover county that balances growth with respect to identity and history the brown growth community will benefit greatly from this change increasing the dwelling density will create housing for young families and seniors many of whom aspire to call brown grove home moreover this amendment will enable us to make a better use of the land by

[03:26:47] minimizing industrial sprawl that threatens our community responsible sustainable development in brown grove will allow us to grow where it makes sense fostering a balanced approach to preserving rural historic character while me while meeting our housing demands thank you for your consideration and i trust that our vision will uh meet your vision and your wisdom thank you thank you for your comments mr pompey did you hear a question in there that you can answer yeah so the um there

[03:27:25] was a question about johnson town road and that area or the segment of johnson town road that's within this area proposed for a land use change does include some existing single family homes that are zoned rs and are roughly um half acre lots a little bit smaller in some instances so this this map doesn't change anyone's zoning it just changes the general land use plan which signals this area could be appropriate for that residential development at a density of three to seven units per acre or four to seven units per acre but each case will be evaluated on

[03:28:04] a case-by-case basis and it's up to the landowner to initiate a zoning change or decide if they want to pursue development of their property so the question was that about the single family residences that they they are located on that part in that part of the area mr pompey i have an additional question while you're there sir you had mentioned the capacity at lee high school and so i was just reviewing the staff report again can you comment openly restate your comment about the utilization

[03:28:42] of at lee high school based upon what is shown in the staff report and the knowledge that you have about the enrollment and the capacity yes so as part of these comprehensive plan amendments we're looking at infrastructure in the area that could support any change in intensity of development so again roads public utilities and schools the schools of course is undergoing their boundary adjustment process so they have updated data regarding school capacity and utilization based on what the on the data compiled as part of that process

[03:29:18] this area is zoned for elmont elementary school chickahominy middle and atley high school right now those schools do have capacity and elmont elementary school and chickahominy middle school are expected to have capacity through 2035 which is what that that study looked out to atley high school may exceed capacity in 2029 based on population forecasts so the the high school level based on the current boundaries and the data collected as part of that boundary adjustment process may be over capacity in 2020-2029 so you may not know sir but i'll ask

[03:29:56] a question this potential rezoning this data is is this been calculated into the boundary adjustment process no it wouldn't be since these are not approved zoning zoning cases as part of that boundary adjustment process they looked at our growth rate and our approved developments from what I understand okay so they looked at growth rate approved developments but not applications am I understanding you correctly I believe that's that's

[03:30:33] correct I have a question when you okay I would like to hear any comment and anyone could make on this topic supervisor Pritchard so what I would like to ask the schools to do if we approve the rezoning tonight along with the comprehensive plan adjustment and frankly we've been working on this for two years we sat in a million it seems like although good ones meetings with the brown grove community we've been planning for residential here for over

[03:31:11] two years if schools is not looking at that then I feel like they missed something that that we've been working on for a long time and if we approve this rezoning tonight I would really like to ask them to consider these numbers in their boundary adjustments because it seems unfair to punish a community for something that we've been planning for a long time and they didn't catch it and I agree with mr. Hertzberg they should be looking at approvals as well as what's

[03:31:43] already there any other comments on this topic before we move on yeah yeah to say one up it's not so much a negative comment but increasing the size of the uh the comp plan amendment to 20 acres and encompassing residents that are already there it kind of seems counterintuitive if you want to if you want to maintain your community we want to to keep the folks there and increasing the now the value of those properties would be more and the incentive to sell and move out uh in order to make you know would be there

[03:32:22] i'm just just wondering if that's taken into consideration is that you're increasing that size in encompassing residential houses already you know i think the purpose i get the purpose of of and i'm in support of of the the the seven acres you know for sure and what we're trying to accomplish there i'm definitely in support of that um and then the wisdom behind you know increasing that higher density on a road that typically has a lot of industrial traffic right right in that particular area in the safety the safety issue that that might arrive might make

[03:32:53] raise supervisor pritchard sorry thank you i mean sue you were um i know you're very supportive of our community but i know that too that you were not here um during the the comprehensive plan work that we did with brown grove and one of the things that was consistently said to me by brown Grove is they have habitat houses there they have quote-unquote and for affordable houses what Brown Grove wants in order to grow in the positive

[03:33:32] direction that they want is aspirational houses they want houses that people want to move into the Brown Grove community want to become a part of the Brown Grove community the rezoning I mean the I'm sorry the change in the comp plan doesn't force anyone who lives on Johnson Town or in that in that area to sell their property but over time should they want to do that it increases the value of those properties it makes sure that people who who live there if they sell their properties can do better and that it continues over time to financially benefit the people who live in brown grove as

[03:34:11] well as benefiting their quality of life so i i know every single thing we do has some potential drawback some sometime but we worked on this for a long time and i really really think we have this covered okay and one thing if i can add to the comprehensive plan particularly the general land use plan so when staff was looking at this area we tried to look at an area uh at a 10 000 square a 10 000 foot level uh when changing the land use designation we don't want to just change one parcel or be parcel specific look at what could work from an area perspective as well supervisor

[03:34:50] devil yes thank you mr. chair um I was just quite I guess I'm gonna have to sort of disagree with mr. Miss Pritchard on this because we just went through a very lengthy comprehensive plan update and the decision was made to make this area one and a half to three units I do acknowledge that she's been working on this project for quite a while and I have already said in public that I support this project and would like to support this project and I thought that was why we were here tonight but to take this project which is only seven acres

[03:35:28] I'm fine change of the comprehensive plan to support this project but I'm not gonna be here tonight to support any more high-density on air comprehensive plan because that's what I heard throughout the process we don't want any more comfort only one more high density I actually went to the extent to take all of it out of South Anna district and I realize this is not South Anna but I heard a recurring theme we decided one and a half to three was what belonged in this area I think it could be a nice mixed use of single-family and townhouses

[03:36:07] but I'm not going to support the full change on the comp plan for anything but This project one more time Supervisor Pritchard So mr. Bo so agreed This is not South Anna and the needs are different from South Anna, but I want to say to I kind of hamstrung here Right. I came in the last time we brought this forward and the very clear message was if you want this project Then you need to change the comprehensive plan to meet this project

[03:36:42] Even though staff said technically we didn't need to do that, but but the board overwhelmingly said if you don't go back and look at the comprehensive plan then then we can't necessarily support this So we went back we sent it to the Planning Commission who by the way approved this seven to nothing But the Planning Commission felt that they couldn't do a single parcel and that's why they included the rest of this area And so I feel like we've been putting a catch-22 To do the thing that is right for this community and and I just I don't know what we could have done differently here

[03:37:22] Supervisor tipple. I have a question for miss hunter would staff have an issue with a motion tonight that Supported only changing this part this projects land on the conflict the board has that they can do that because the comprehensive plan is not parcel specific we looked at what was made the most sense from a planning perspective the board definitely has the prerogative if they don't if they feel like this is too much and just want

[03:38:00] some more support it for the seven acres that can be done as well as I'm also very concerned about the fact that this feeds into Elmont and I think we could handle this project as presented I think it's a good project I think that this Brown Grove community worked on it really hard and I applaud the developer for finding compromise in this particular project but I am very concerned about adding additional land because that adds additional students and it just it's just simply not something that I'm going to support

[03:38:37] tonight one more time supervisor Pritchard miss do well I'm I'm open to reducing the area back to the original area that we proposed last time that it would be the seven acres only and move our project forward I'm certainly open to making that change I'd like to make a comment I would like to support the seven acres only and I'm concerned about the capacity of Attlee high school what did we just go through at a cool spring elementary and people say well the board the board the board well here's one right in front of us so it would

[03:39:14] certainly be better to reduce that down to the seven acres that's where I'm at at this time thank you very much mr. Pompey so we are in still in the public hearing is there anyone else who wishes to speak in favor of this application is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this application seeing none we will now close the public hearing for the comprehensive plan amendment i am going to recognize supervisor dibble and please choose your words carefully

[03:39:54] on the motion how about supervisor pritchard since supervisor dibble sitting down there you just recognized sue i am so sorry i know i know it's pritchard i know it's ashlyn i feel taller i got caught up in the seven acres thinking about all good um so let me just say up front that despite the agreements and disagreements here, ultimately we and Brown Grove are getting exactly what we asked for in the first place. We never asked for the expansion

[03:40:29] of the district. And so this is what we asked for to begin with. So what I would like to move is that we approve cpa 2025 dash 0001 changing the boundary of that district or the the boundary of that comp plan adjustment back to the original um original land plan i'm sorry how much was that seven acres through the original seven acres so there is a motion to amend the comprehensive plan

[03:41:08] for the additional seven acres only is there a second second any comments or discussion amongst board members the quick master stoneman even though I raised a little concern I just want the community members of Brown Grove to know that I wholeheartedly support this this project and it likes I look forward to seeing it come come to fruition okay we will now call for the vote all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed okay the comp plan has been

[03:41:42] amendment amended okay mr pompey so the next public hearing is the related rezoning request that we were talking about with the last case that's a request to rezone to rm multifamily residential to permit 41 attached and detached homes at the southwest corner of the intersection of virginia crane drive and ash cake road in the brown grove community and again this is in the ashland district so the comprehensive plan has changed with the the previous action this property is in the suburban service area that's the portion of the county that is designated for

[03:42:18] higher intensity development and with the last action this land use designation has changed from suburban neighborhood residential to suburban high residential again the property is zoned a1 currently and they're requesting rm zoning there are a mix of zoning districts in this area along virginia crane drive there are some industrial zonings and then along johnson town road there's residential rs zoning as well as some a1 zoning in the area this is the conceptual plan with the rm zoning district the applicant is required to submit a conceptual plan they must adhere to throughout the development process this conceptual plan meets or exceeds the requirements in the rm

[03:42:57] district for residential development it shows 36 one and two-story townhomes four detached homes and the existing home the property will remain and i'll show a picture of those homes in the next slide landscape buffers 50 feet along ash cake road and 25 feet along virginia crane drive within the rm district based on the size of this parcel 1.4 acres of open space are required and the applicant is providing just over 2.9 acres part of that open space includes five foot wide asphalt pedestrian trails as well as a multi-purpose ball field and along the exercise

[03:43:34] trails there along the trails there are exercise stations as well so there are the amenities that are required within the rm zoning district as well as the buffers open space and all the provisions that district requires for residential development the rm district with the application does require the submittal of elevations that the applicant must adhere to throughout the development process and again this project has 36 townhomes and that's what the townhomes will look like on the top again with the the mix of one and two-story units and then the single-family homes those are located along ash cake road and the applicant has proffered that the front elevations will face

[03:44:10] ash cake road so those elevations are what you will see as you're driving through the brown grove community so again the land use designation has changed from suburban neighborhood residential to suburban high residential in this particular proposal meets all the design-based recommendations or many of the design-based recommendations for that particular land use designation so in the conference of play not only do we have the land use designations but there's also different components of community development that are addressed within the document this particular area is within the brown grove rural historic district and within several parts of the plan we do have specific recommendations on how this district can grow and develop over time this

[03:44:50] plan meets many of those recommendations including landscape buffers along ash cake road the single family homes are oriented towards ash cake road so you'll see the front of the homes versus the backs when you drive by the homes are comparable in scale and include features that are similar to existing homes there are a mix of housing options single family detached single family attached as well as one and two story units and then there are pedestrian trails along ash cake road and virginia crane drive in the conference of plan this is one of our pedestrian bicycle focus areas where we're focusing pedestrian bicycle improvements as part of private development as well as public funds come available this is a transitional area as i showed on the zoning map

[03:45:28] there's industrial along virginia crane drive and residential along johnson town road the site design and proffers help address this transitional location through buffers and other design features in terms of transportation ash cake road is a focus corridor it's one of the roadways we want to focus on as we look at development the applicants completed a turn lane warrant analysis which found that turn lanes are not warranted in this area vdot reviewed that analysis and found it generally acceptable in order of transportation improvements the applicant is dedicating 40 feet of right-of-way as recommended in the comprehensive plan particularly the major thoroughfare plan for ash cake road so they're they're dedicating that

[03:46:07] right away for any future improvements that may occur in the area because this property is located within the brown grove rural historic district and it touches some civil war features as shown on our historic maps the historic commission reviewed this request in october the several people from the brown grove community spoke in support of this request and the national park service indicated there were no civil war features on the property so based on that feedback from citizens as well as the national park service the commission determined this request would not have negative impacts on the community so in addition to the adherence to the conceptual plan and

[03:46:43] elevations which is required for the rm rm zoning ordinance the applicant has submitted proffered conditions related to development that includes brick or stone foundations again those front facades faced towards ash cake road as part of marketing materials the deeds and contracts they will be required per the proffered condition to disclose proximity of the project to hanover county airport and industrial operations one standard proffer we have with our residential developments are recreational amenities bonded with section one the enhanced thoroughfare buffer so additional landscaping above and beyond what the ordinance requires and then along virginia

[03:47:20] crane drive to provide additional transition and screening against that roadway at least 50 of the plannings will be evergreen consistent fencing along virginia crane drive right-of-way dedication along ash cake road as well as virginia crane drive and then based on some feedback from the planning commission they have proffered that lighting on the units that are oriented towards johnson town road and those existing residents will have special features such as house side shields or glare shields to help reduce any potential impact lighting from the rear the units will have on those existing single-family residences so based on the proffer conditions

[03:47:58] and the conceptual plan as well as the addition of that lighting related proffer the planning commission after holding the public hearing recommended approval of this particular project with a vote of six to one two people spoke in favor or support of the project and with one speaker in opposition with the speaker opposition referencing the congress of plan amendment or the need for one the board of supervisors held a first public hearing on this case in january and voted after the public hearing and discussion to defer action for 60 days to allow a conference of plan amendment which you all just reviewed since that time we have had the conference of

[03:48:34] plan amendment and the applicant has conducted analysis to look at how a school bus could move through the site based on some feedback from the board following the public hearing they did a complete analysis and they shared that with the school system on how a bus could successfully navigate through the development at the public hearing the five members of the public spoke four spoke in support and one opposition again the one opposition expressed interest in having the conference of planned amendment which was just reviewed that concludes staff's presentation the applicant is here tonight they completed a full presentation

[03:49:13] at the last public hearing so i don't think they have a full presentation planned tonight but they are here to answer any questions as am i thank you mr pompey any questions from board members i have a question i'd like to understand the effect on atlee high school a little better than i currently do so if this were to be rezoned what is the total number of units here so the total uh number of units is 41 there's one existing home and then 40 new units okay so the total here

[03:49:48] is 41 and the calculation for the for the effect on the school i think is in the comp plan amendment paperwork so would we be assuming an average household size of 2.61 people yeah it would be it's the same uh calculation um as that particular document so um the the two um 2.6 people per

[03:50:22] household i believe it is times 41 houses and you assume um 20 could be school age children in total so based on the the way we typically calculate that there could possibly be 21 students total in all in all grade levels through this project 20 i want to just make sure i understand it correctly i believe i heard you say 21 students total could be the average result for rezoning like this that's correct and that would include uh 20 that would be from k through 12. that's

[03:50:58] that's correct 21 total okay thank you very much sir okay mr stoneman thank you mr chair uh andrew thank you for your presentation um so at the last meeting uh there was uh some concern about school buses uh in the turn radius coming in there and i know that we received a report that that engineering wise you said it's the bus can go in there but do we know from hanover county public schools that buses do enter into areas like this the applicant might be able to speak to this as

[03:51:34] well but as as of yesterday that neither the applicant or staff have heard from the school board on this the applicant indicated that some of this part of some previous developments they've entered into a agreement to allow the school buses to go on to the private roads but we have not heard as of yesterday whether the schools have as an opinion on this particular development as to whether they would allow the bus to enter the development or not but there has been precedent in some other cases to have an agreement in place to allow the schools to enter the private roads to pick up and drop off students and i guess i got one more point that is more of a curiosity

[03:52:12] um you know because you know i really applaud the brown group community tonight i think we've had had some big wins and um and we want to continue that stroke uh but i just want to make sure what i'm hearing is you know they want this train they want this uh you know like a more enhanced living environment and and i know that i have been part of this but i have heard the stories about where townhomes have been converted uh before construction that's to to apartments and i just you know is there any risk of that is there or there's any way we can make sure that that doesn't happen because i don't think apartments could be the quality that we're looking for here

[03:52:53] uh mr walter might want to chime in on this but i think from a zoning perspective there uh we we as a county cannot dictate whether it's for rent versus for sale uh units and maybe mr walter can provide his opinion on that certainly um mr chairman mr pompey is correct in the sense that the board is uh primarily focused on land use rather than land users in terms of who the folks are who may live there there have been some other instances where developers and

[03:53:27] future homeowners associations have agreed that they would include restrictive covenants that provide for a minimum amount of time for rentals but as far as as i'm aware there's no ability to Have a proffer that says no rentals whatsoever. So that may be an issue that when the applicant comes forward now knowing that At least one board member has a concern about that. Hopefully they will be able to address that issue and depending upon what they say we may be able to craft some language or they may be able to

[03:54:02] Address your concerns so that nothing additional needs to be made. Thank you. Any other questions from board members from mr. Pompey Thank you, sir. This is on the agenda for a public hearing. We will now open the public hearing It's the applicant present. Please state your name the district in which you live or the entity you represent Hello. Good evening. My name is Nathina Hodges. I'm with Roger Chennault I first want to thank mr. Pompey with his presentation and we are in agreement with the staff report

[03:54:40] I also want to thank the brown grove community for all of for meeting with us on multiple occasions and providing feedback and input as we put this together and A huge thanks to miss Pritchard for all her hard work and dedication her time and Constant input and feedback is so appreciated and it really helps us meet the wants and needs of the Brown Grove community There haven't been any changes as mr. Pompey met mentioned before and We outside of the CPA and then we also have done the school bus turn analysis

[03:55:19] We have provided that to the school board and their transportation administration. However, we have not heard back yet We I did look into the regulations generally they don't allow it into private roads because of their concerns of having to reverse But there are possibilities depending on the number of school-age children that do need to be dropped off and picked up that you can kind of work an agreement out I can't say if they will do so or not until we do hear back from them but we will continue to try to work something out especially for

[03:55:52] the safety of the kids coming off of Ashcake Road we also have I believe that's the only questions that I had to address but I am happy to address any other further questions that come up thank you ma'am any questions from board members for the applicant supervisor stoneman so you did i did hear my question about uh you know apartments and all is it possible to put in in the uh hoa agreement um a proffer that says that uh you know these will be sold for owner occupied and then maybe put a time frame because i know

[03:56:29] some people might might purchase a townhome and then rent it out for a year or something like that i don't have a problem with that but um my main concern is that you know apartments don't generally uh last or they don't have the same appearance that department i mean that townhomes would have and in the upkeep that owners landowners would have um i would have to defer to mr rogers to answer that if you would like ladies and gentlemen of the board my name is todd rogers president of rogers chenault incorporated uh the question is a good one and we typically don't put

[03:57:04] those in our covenants and restrictions just because of exactly uh that happened a lot we had undo some covenant restrictions back when the market was really bad 2007 and eight when a lot of homeowners had no choice but to rent those their units I will tell you our intention is and our this is a for sale product we are building them for sale I just can't tie to whether some future owner or and I want to say this too if we get down the road and we you know three buildings up and we don't have any sales we may be forced to rent a few but I will tell you

[03:57:40] our intention is to sell these units that's what the they're going to be for sale units they're not a for rent product that's not what our intention is so i know that's vague and i'm sorry to be vague but that's i'm telling you the truth so i have a question for you sir thank you so the townhouses that you built in cherry grove were those sold or rented we have two rentals that ended up being in there and 134 sold okay and the the new homes that were recently built

[03:58:12] off the shady grove road 100 owner-occupied okay thank you very much sir any other questions for the applicant either mr rogers supervisor dibble yes um i'd like to circle back to the the bus situation um this week i was in contact with the transportation director over at the schools and i know that your engineer created a very engineered drawing on how a bus could perfectly drive to get in and out of this tight development but as a general

[03:58:50] guideline we do not take our buses into these places because one car parked in the fire lane and we all know there's lots of times there's not a lot of parking in this type of development so I actually I don't know why this didn't get back to you but I actually asked mr. frearson I said just to be clear you would prefer that the buses not enter the development to pick up the students with the exception of the special needs buses which are smaller and shorter so

[03:59:25] he indicates that the possibility might be along Virginia Crane Drive that we would have a bus stop right at one of your entry points the one where the trees are shown in that vicinity so I'm hoping that we could move this forward with coordination from the schools because we generally do not go in there because we will get stuck yes ma'am that's that so I know that's something we can work through at time of site plan development but please do have your

[04:00:01] engineer reach out to the transportation department to to work that out we certainly work towards that one one main difference between this type of townhouse and some of the ones they've had some issues with the other ones had individual driveways and so people would park in the driveway and then park on the street this is a drive aisle with perpendicular parking so hardly ever will you have parallel parking behind that so that's that's one main difference and the the way the fire code is with the widths of these drive aisles it certainly accommodates the buses because of that are you willing to look at a bus

[04:00:38] stop on the street or what do yeah we would i mean that would be certainly good by us to do that you know we don't have any control over where the bus stops but i'm just letting you know that a bus could make it through these with the expanded drive aisles that are now required any other questions for the applicant thank you to both of you one more question for staff supervisor tipple has a question for mr pompey mr pompey so you've documented that in our minutes that when you get to

[04:01:15] site plan approval there will be more communication with the director of transportation yes ma'am we can put that in the action letter as well so it's memorialized in the easy to find place I just want to make sure that these kids are safe and that they get to school on time because I know we've had problems when people double park all the time they just they just do we don't have enough parking and when you can just get a bus through it's been problematic in the past so I want to make sure we get those kids on and off that bus and

[04:01:46] safely as possible mr stoneman thank you mr chair so talking about the bus stop right there is there a loop down at the end of virginia crane drive so that bus driver can turn around and come back out that i do not know i don't i've been over there and i kind of not recognize so let me just say because i spend a fair amount of time over there we we had an issue a couple of years ago where um the transportation department for the schools didn't want to go down johnson town road anymore

[04:02:25] and so they were having the children cross ash cake road and get picked up in front of the landfill and so we got that resolved and the school buses do go down johnson town road which is the next road over and if we can't get sufficient um if we can't get sufficient clearance or cooperation to get the school buses through to the development i am absolutely certain we will have no trouble getting a designated path through to johnson town road where the bus already goes agreed

[04:02:54] any other questions okay so the applicant has presented is there anyone here who wishes to speak in favor of this application is there anyone here who wishes to speak in opposition to the application seeing none we will now close the public hearing this is in the ashland district supervisor pritchard thank you mr chair i i can't i know this isn't about me i know this is about

[04:03:32] brown grove and it is about the hard work that you all have done but i i tell you in nine years this is the one i'm the most proud of i would like to thank you all for everything you put into it i would like to thank roger chanel particularly todd rogers who has talked to me far more times than i was entitled to um to make sure that this worked and with that i would like to move for approval of cup i'm sorry i'm on the wrong wrong case of rez 2024-00014 second there is a motion

[04:04:09] and a second any discussion amongst board members we will now call for the vote all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed application is approved congratulations okay we will now have

[04:04:25] a 10 minute recess uh hopefully we can restart at 7 55. time is 7 55. board is back in session

[04:14:34] mr pompey the next public hearing item is in the chickahominy district and this is a request to allow an event venue use on the site of a professional office on shady grove road at this location again along shady grove road at its intersection with old oak lawn drive there's an existing conditional use permit that allows the existing structure to be used as a professional office and this request of approved would allow an additional use of an event venue on the property so again the property is located along shady grove road is in the suburban service

[04:15:13] area which is the 22 of the county that's designated for higher intensity development this particular property is designated suburban neighborhood residential as well as the surrounding area. That recommends residential development, primarily single-family detached homes at densities of one and a half to three units per acre. There is a mix of zoning classifications in the area, but most of the properties along and west of Shady Grove Road in this area are zoned to one of our residential zoning districts, as well as some subdivisions along Studley Road. Most of the properties, nearly all the properties surrounding the subject property, are zoned to one of our

[04:15:51] residential zoning districts here is an overview of the property again there's an existing home from 1974 at the center of the property that was converted to a professional office per the conditional use permit approved in 2020 and the proposed event area be rear to the rear of that building garrison manor are single family subdivisions to the north and west north and east of the subject property with quail creek to the northwest on the opposite side of shady grove

[04:16:26] road and this is just a view of the property from shady grove road looking northeast you can see the dwelling that was built in 1974 that was converted to professional office and then the garrison manor subdivision and then old oak lawn drive so in terms of the zoning history in january 2020 the board of supervisors approved rezoning the property to rs single family residential district as well as an associated conditional use permit to allow professional offices in 2020 the conditional use permit that was requested had two parts the professional

[04:17:01] office component as well as the event venue the board of supervisors chose to approve the professional office component of the request but the event venue part was remanded back to the planning commission and ultimately withdrawn in august 2020 a site plan was approved for the professional office as well as some of the improved parking and drive aisles that you see on the site today in october of 2020 the first notice of violation was issued for operating an event venue that is an active violation that is still open and then in july 2024 the current conditional use permit amendment was submitted to bring the property into compliance with the zoning ordinance

[04:17:39] with conditional use permits we require a sketch plan and this shows the property and where parking areas would be with the event space behind the building the open fields in the front that could be used for overflow parking the existing entrance and drive aisles remain and continue to be used with that access off of shady grove road and again the event space to the rear the applicant does submit a revised sketch plan on march 24th that removed the field parking at the rear of the site so with the revised sketch plan and the conditions that we'll discuss later they did

[04:18:13] remove the possibility of parking in the grass to the rear of the site and again this is just another view of the area you can see the office towards the middle of the site again in that former dwelling the unimproved event parking in the front and event areas per the conditions 100 area 100 feet off of the garrison manor subdivision there are existing 12 parking spaces that are improved and paved on the property that support the professional office with an event venue use there could be the need per ordinance requirements for 38 additional parking spaces

[04:18:52] which would be the event parking so this particular site as you saw from the aerials is surrounded by single-family residential uses garrison manor is the closest subdivision to the north and east and then quail creek on the opposite side of shady grove road to the west previously the event parking was 25 to 50 feet from the rear lot lines with the amended sketch plan and the conditions the parking would no longer be along that rear lot line so it would not be adjacent to garrison manor per again those revisions to the plan and the conditions proposed by the applicant and recommended by staff and then the event

[04:19:32] areas per the conditions and which the applicant has indicated would be 100 feet from the rear lot lines while there is existing lower intensity commercial uses on the property again with that cup that was approved in 2020 professional offices are permitted on the site an event venue may generate additional noise lighting and traffic greater than those existing professional offices so those are considerations as the conditions are developed additional impacts will likely occur on the evenings and weekends when residents of adjacent neighborhoods are at home typically professional offices operate during the day event venues operate on evenings and weekends when the neighbors are home so again those are additional impacts that may occur

[04:20:10] and may need to be mitigated as events occur on the property should this cup be approved the applicant held community meeting in october and most of the concerns that were expressed related to noise noise from outdoor events with music and those impacts on adjacent neighborhoods in the immediate area so with any conditional use permit the board of supervisors may impose any conditions that it deems necessary to mitigate potential impacts that the use may have on surrounding properties.

[04:20:42] Where proffers are voluntarily offered by applicants in rezoning cases, conditions through conditional use permits and special exceptions can be opposed at the discretion of the Board of Supervisors. So the conditions that are recommended are intended to limit potential negative impacts such as noise and lighting by limiting hours of operation, limiting hours of amplified noise, the number and duration of events requiring enhanced evergreen buffers requiring setbacks for tense and amplified music and again limiting parking adjacent to the residential neighborhoods that surround the site proposed condition number 10 requires that the conditional use permit be

[04:21:20] renewed in the future allowing the community provide feedback on the effectiveness of the proposed conditions that mitigating negative impact so if that pro if that uh condition were approved as part of the cp if the cup is approved the applicant would have to come back again for the public hearing process to renew the cup so again this is just the sketch plan that shows how the site could develop with the proposed use having the existing building towards the middle of the property with the event space to the rear and overflow parking in the fields to

[04:21:51] the front so staff has recommended 11 conditions those conditions were revised in a memo sent to to you all on Tuesday and that memo is available on our e-track it system there is some disagreement between a few of the conditions in terms of what staff is recommending to mitigate negative impacts and what the applicant is requesting so those in in this presentation those conditions are where we vary are highlighted in red so there are 11 total conditions and I'll go through those conditions

[04:22:27] right now but again the first condition is that the use would be for an event venue and the existing cup for the professional offices would continue condition two relates to the number and the size of events and there are some differences in what staffs recommending what the applicant is requesting here we define what events are events include any gathering where 20 or more guests are using the facility for entertainment dining or similar purposes the applicant is proposing that an event be anything with 50 or more guests and that weddings are prohibited the maximum number

[04:23:04] of participants no events may have more than 150 participants indoor events are limited to the maximum occupancy load for the primary building the staff recommendation against 150 participants is the maximum per any event the applicant's requesting 200 that's worded incorrectly 200 participants per event with no limit on celebrations of life number of events no more than 16 outdoor events per year with no more than four events per month staff is proposing a limit on the number of

[04:23:37] outdoor events indoor events there would not be a limit to that the applicant is requesting 25 events outdoors annually with six events per month no events on consecutive weekends staff's proposing no outdoor events held on consecutive weekends so if an event is held one saturday and sunday there'll be no events the next saturday or sunday to provide residents with um a break from from hearing the events the applicant opposes the consecutive weekend limitation duration of events staffs proposing no more than one outdoor event may be held each day and no outdoor event may

[04:24:13] have a duration of more than four hours the applicant would like you to say no outdoor event may have a duration of more than four hours of amplified music so there wouldn't be a limitation on the hours of the event but there'd be a limitation on the amount of amplified sound and then a log of written events we write it to the planning director annually hours for amplified sound outdoors there's agreement in some of these areas but one of the areas there's disagreement amplified noise be limited friday saturday and sunday on the based on the times on the screen staff supposing no amplified sound for events held on mondays tuesdays wednesdays or thursdays

[04:24:51] except for federal holidays the applicant would like to have amplified music monday through thursday 10 a.m to 7 p.m and then the remainder of the conditions i believe there's agreement on hours operation are limited depending on the the day with the hours more limited during the weekend on sundays than on weekends tents may not be placed within 100 feet of the perimeter of the property exterior lighting will not exceed 15 feet in height and whether it's permanent or temporary

[04:25:24] it cannot be within 100 feet of the perimeter of the property no parking can occur in the grass behind the primary building there are there's a loop where there's existing parking spaces those can be used but no parking could be used or the grass areas cannot be used for parking grass fields in front of the building can be used as overflow parking and remain grass provided no vehicles are parked within 100 feet of the perimeter of the property perimeter buffer there's a perimeter buffer and plantings already along the edge of the property where it abuts garrison manor this specifies the number and amount of perimeter plantings in that buffer area

[04:26:03] it specifies additional evergreen shrubs for those properties that are closest to the event area and garrison manner right additional screening whether it be from lights and help buffer sound additionally setback marker you know we have these conditions that say no tents no lights within 100 feet of the boundary of the property this would require some sort of feature that notes where that 100 feet is so guests vendors whoever is using to operate the site knows that they need to be within that boundary and not encroach into the 100 foot

[04:26:37] buffer from the adjoining properties so that is what that condition relates to renewal this conditional use permit will expire on december 31st 2028 so that would mean they'd have to come back through the process prior to that date if they would like to continue the use should the cup be approved and then condition 11 adherence to all the regulations is the standard condition for any of our conditional use permits the planning commission reviewed this request at a previous meeting after hearing from the public they recommended denial on a vote of four to two there were zero speakers for in support of that particular meeting and five speakers in opposition

[04:27:16] with many of the concerns related to noise as well as light impacts from car headlights in their this particular concern from those adjacent property owners and how that use and those particular impacts would affect the ability to enjoy their backyards that concludes staff's presentation i'd be happy to answer any questions at this time the applicant does have a presentation they would like to give as well well thank you sir any questions for mr pompey from board members

[04:27:46] mr hudson thank you mr chair mr pompey what is a celebration of life um my understanding that's a funeral your understanding yes do we not celebrate when we get engaged i would say that's a celebration as well i can just say that i'm i'm i would and i'm sure that it can be uh delineated but i would need to know what a celebration of life is defined uh i feel like i'm asking you depends on what you

[04:28:25] you think the definition of is is but anyway yeah and that and that's something the applicant holds and they um a terminology they use my understanding is that would be something like a funeral yeah i would that's what i would that's what i would say but i would hate for someone to come back and say you know we celebrated because we were having a baby celebration of life so thank you sir thank you sir uh mr pompey i do have a couple questions yes sir so when when the case went before the

[04:28:57] Planning Commission were weddings and receptions included in the application at that time. Yes, okay so since then recently the applicant has Amended the application to remove weddings and receptions. Is that right? Yeah, the language that they submitted says Weddings are prohibited. Okay. The other question I have is about the parking So, originally, the parking was a different way than it is now.

[04:29:33] So, I just want to make sure I understand it correctly. For events, the parking is prohibited on the rear lot line, so that would mean the parking would be in front of the building. Is that right? That is correct. Okay. Is there any reason why they can't park on the grass?

[04:29:52] No. With the way the staff-recommended conditions are written, they could park in the grass in the front fields. okay the ordinance typically requires improvements unless the conditional use permit specifically says grass parking is okay they they do have the paved parking spaces the 12 parking spaces but yes they would park in the grass in the front field okay so I have a question about the written log it would the applicant be required if this is approved to provide a written log of

[04:30:27] events and dates that how would that be verified if we just take them at their word uh that that would be yes it would just be what we would take them for their word and if there was a complaint we would be able to hopefully look at the log and say this is a permitted event and one that's already counting towards their maximum number of events and if it wasn't we would you know investigate further okay and then originally the application had a request for 40 outdoor events

[04:31:02] per year is that right the original conditions presented to the planning commission would have been 40 events per year yes did i understand your presentation to say it's 25 now the applicant has changed it to 25 staff is recommending 16. okay that's what i needed to know so the applicant has lowered their request from 40 down to 25 staff is recommending 16. okay and this parcel is

[04:31:34] is it 12 13 acres it's 12.98 okay that's where i got the 13 from i understand sir well thank you very much any other questions from board members supervisor dibble thank you mr chair on um our proper number 10 didn't get to read that thoroughly before we moved forward um you mentioned in your presentation that we would review this in the future what what does that mean is there so yeah the conditional the the direct language or the full language is the conditional use permit will

[04:32:13] expire on december 31st 2028. so that means it will be valid through december 31st 2028 and then okay they'd have to go through the process to continue it thank you any other questions okay well thank you sir this is on the agenda for a public hearing we will now open the public hearing as the applicant present please state your name the magisterial district in which you live

[04:32:43] or the entity you represent um good evening uh ladies and gentlemen chairman and members of the board uh my name is nathena hodges i'm with roger chennault here presenting on behalf of hometown realty for this request our current cup permits a business and professional office use for the benefit of hometown realty services to run our business we believe we are currently able to hold

[04:33:13] hometown realty business functions, corporate events, community events, and non-profit events. Our intention is to continue the use of our property as is, but to clarify the permitted uses with the conditions put together with this request. We want to be a good community member and neighbor by restricting our hours, increasing our landscaping buffers, limiting locations of tents, which will also help reduce the noise and more. Following the January planning commission,

[04:33:48] we have made some changes to our initial request. In addition to the prepared conditions by staff, we have modified our request to address community concerns and have committed to the following. Renting the property to the public for public use will not be permitted. Weddings will not be permitted, and this includes the reception and the ceremony. Reducing our initial request of 40 events per year to 25 contingent on defining events within the conditions to include 50 or more persons instead of the 20. We also have noted that event parking will not only be permitted in

[04:34:25] the front grass field for events. It'll no longer be along the rear as mentioned previously. Our current request is solely to permit the following for the benefit of hometown realty services, hometown realty business functions, promotional events, and community events that help us run our business and we have also requested that celebrations of life be a permittable event and when we mentioned celebrations of life it was it was a delicate way of saying receptions for funerals because typically the funeral is when you have your at the gravesite or if you are doing it at a church and everything like that so celebrations of life was a term for the reception

[04:35:04] portion but we are happy to change it to funerals just to kind of keep it on gray and big per staff and Planning Commission request we have surveyed the existing setback marker measurements the permanent setback markers are 400 pound boulders that are 110 feet and 120 feet from the rear eastern property line and they will maintain that our condition does say 200 feet from the line but we are happy to just leave those boulders in place and stick to that as the setback marker this is an image showing the two that are measured

[04:35:40] from the fence line. This render also shows the existing tree line on the property as well as our designated event area and the field parking location to remain unimproved. This shows our supplementary landscaping plan which is a little different from the graphic that you saw in the staff report. This just has a actual typical perimeter buffer detail that shows that condition to have the one tree every 20 feet which is at least 50 percent evergreen and then one evergreen shrub every six feet we do already have a lot of existing landscaping we would

[04:36:15] just supplement that to meet this buffer detail along with and this would also be in front of Lots 62 through 59 of Garrison Manor which is section 2 this is the existing landscaping these pictures were taken in February so the trees are a little denuded because of the winter but just to give you an idea of what is there and we would obviously add those supplementary plannings after our community meeting in the Planning Commission public hearing we took the input received and agreed to modify our request and the conditions to our

[04:36:52] application to address the major concerns we really appreciate all the effort that planning and zoning staff have put in to work with us to come up with these conditions as well as the input that we've received from commissioners and board members and we are mostly agreeable to staff conditions however there are a few that we have requested modifications to during this review as mentioned and we have agreed to the majority of the conditions that are listed here these are the requested changes to the conditions modify the definition of events to increase the number of persons to 50 we would also remove the language for ticket sales since we have committed

[04:37:32] to not utilizing the property for fee-based events and then we'd also I don't have it highlighted on here, we would like to add language in that does not permit weddings. We also are increasing the maximum number of participants to 200 at one time and add language that excludes celebration of life from this requirement because we'd hate to turn any family member away from having to mourn their loved ones. As mentioned previously, our original request was for 40 events per year due to the definition of events determining 20 or more persons as an event. We have 10 to 20 agents on site

[04:38:10] working at a time, therefore 20 is a little too low to be tangible. We have agreed to reduce the number of events to 25 and no more than six outdoor events occurring in a single month, contingent on the definition of events to include 50 or more persons. We request that the condition for events on consecutive weekends be removed entirely due to the fact that outdoor events are limited to weather conditions in certain times of the year, primarily being spring and fall, And with the reduction of number of events, it's easier to kind of spread it out if we can just have a little more to work with.

[04:38:45] And then we would like to amend duration of events to add language for no outdoor events with amplified music to have a duration of more than four hours. I would like to note that Hanover County noise ordinance is within the hours of 7 a.m. and 10 p.m. We have agreed to provide the conditions that limit outdoor amplified sound even more.

[04:39:06] The modification request that we have today is just to add in Monday through Thursday from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. I would like to close my presentation with this. We just want to be able to clearly define what we are allowed and not allowed to do on our property.

[04:39:23] With this request, we are trying to set guidelines that we can be accountable to, as well as address some of the community concerns by putting additional restrictions in place. Hanover is Hometown Realty's hometown. We want to continue to have Oaklawn as our headquarters. We also want Oakland to stay as a landmark within this community while being a good neighbor and community member Finally, I know we have a lot of members of the community who are in here for support of our request And they're not all going to speak, but I would like to request them to stand if they may do so

[04:39:54] I want to thank you for listening to my presentation and I'm happy to answer any questions or concerns that may come up Any questions from board members for the applicant? Mr. Hudson I appreciate your presentation and your willingness to share.

[04:40:15] It's kind of two parts. Mr. Pompey, could we have it written in there that a celebration of life is defined as a reception after a funeral? Okay. I just wanted to make sure so that doesn't come back to bite us. Thank you, ma'am.

[04:40:32] Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's all. Any other questions for the applicant from board members? I think I got one. Mr. Stoneman. So thank you for your presentation. So, you know, I know that you just stated that you wanted to clarify what's, what's, what's allowed and what's not. And, you know, at the current time, weddings and events were not allowed and you continue to do it. What's to prevent in the future to doing the same thing? I mean, like I say, it's pretty much taking at your word on this. And I just wanted to make sure that, you know, if weddings are not allowed and they're not allowed now, what's going to prevent them from happening in the future?

[04:41:11] Yes, sir. Previously, we did not have conditions that kind of defined what was allowed event-wise and might admit that, yes, weddings definitely probably weren't the move. And so that's why we are here to put that condition in place that we'd have to adhere to, especially since we will be going through a review process in 2028. If we're not holding ourselves accountable, it'll come back because we have dedicated to not doing that.

[04:41:38] and i do like the language for the sundown on it um i think it's that's really what i had is that you know i haven't seen where the propensity to abide by the rules has been displayed and i just want to make sure that uh that we're clear about that yes sir any other questions from board members thank you very much for your presentation ma'am so before we move on i'd like to get a show of hands so we can budget time combined everyone who wishes to either speak in opposition or

[04:42:15] support please both groups raise your hand so i can calculate the total number so we have more than six that means speaking time will be three minutes kept by mr stoneman yes sir mr stoneman so for those that are coming up to speak we do have a timer this is a new device for us and it will let you know when 30 seconds is is about to rise when you got 30 seconds left you've got a green light when you start when your time at three minutes uh then when you get to 30 seconds remaining the yellow light will come and then at the end of your time the red light will

[04:42:54] blink and uh and and that'll be your cue okay okay those who wish to speak in support we need one person to go straight to the podium the others please assemble near the podium so when the previous speaker is complete you'll be closer and ready to go this is for those who wish to speak in support of this application please state your name the magisterial district in which you live and you will have up to three minutes i've got one question for where's this

[04:43:29] where's the buttons or lights oh thank you uh i'm russell minnick i'm cold harbor district and i'm here to support the approval of the conditional use permit i have participated in several events on the property and i think it's been beneficial to the hanover county business community as well as some of the homeless communities we've done a lot of cooking outside and supported them so i think it's a very worthy cause and i think it's a good place to have that kind of event and i

[04:44:07] appreciate you listen thank you thank you for your comments next please state your name the magisterial district in which you live you will have up to three minutes my name is christian chenault no relation to uh roger chenault um i just wanted to put that out there um i'm just as surprised um and i'm in the chickahominy district um i wanted to say that i've been to the events at oak lawn specifically um one that i'm excited about upcoming is the easter egg hunt and then

[04:44:40] christmas events with my one-year-old daughter uh with her growing up you know who knows what plans going to be but you know her thinking that you know that's a landmark and that's where santa lives or that's where santa she can go see him um is going to be very important to her growing up and so it means a lot to my family um and i would hate to see that go away and hate to see the events go away so i'm in favor of it thank you thank you for your comments next please state your name the magisterial district in which you live you have up to three minutes uh wayne stertz i'm

[04:45:14] in the chickahominy um i'm here i've also attended many or quite a few events there and they were all and done in well taste and i think it's really in the benefit of all the community thank you thank you next please state your name the district in which you live you will have up to three minutes my name is skylar allen uh part of the ashland district um i've attended many of the events here hosted events here um and growing up in mechanicsville in this area um this is a landmark

[04:45:51] um all i have to do is mention hey you know the big white house uh and everybody knows what it is uh and i think everybody behind me will agree that it's only in our best interest in what we are trying to do to keep this this beautiful spot that people can enjoy and be a part of and uh just want to show my support thank you thank you next please state your name the district in which you live you will have up to three minutes thank you i'm robert levy i live in the chickahominy chickahominy district excuse me i'm getting old and i live in the quail creek

[04:46:27] subdivision directly across the street so i think the main thing that i see is all the concessions and that the applicant has made to try to make this acceptable to everybody in the area.

[04:46:45] You don't normally, haven't seen a whole lot of concessions from other people, but the concessions by the applicant, I think, are just too numerous to mention. It's a wonderful event space. It's a wonderful green space.

[04:47:01] And quite frankly, I worry that we lose green space day in and day out, And I would hate to see 30 homes, 35 homes on it. But I would just like to see them have the opportunity to be able to try these events.

[04:47:18] And since the conditional use permit lasts until 2028, we have a chance to find out if it doesn't really work, then we can try and do something else. And I'll close by saying thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, all the members of the board. It's a long day.

[04:47:34] We appreciate your service and your efforts, very much so. Thank you. Thank you for your kind words, sir. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in support of this application? Is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition?

[04:47:53] One person, please go straight to the podium, and the rest, please assemble near the podium so you'll be ready to go. Please state your name, the district in which you live. Yeah, my name is Joe Golden. You have up to three minutes. Joe Golden. I'm in the Chico Nahini district.

[04:48:12] I'm new to the area. Came from Pennsylvania. Eagles fan, a lot of disappointment being an Eagles fan. Not this year, sir. But not this year. Yeah. Anyway, I request that you follow the recommendation of the professionals, your planning commission, who really study this, who reviewed it, who you rely on time and time again, and vote this thing down.

[04:48:38] These event menus are not specifically listed as one of the uses of the conditional use. You got it kind of like shoehorned into recreation facilities. And they made a lot of concessions, and a lot of those are good.

[04:48:55] However, they could still have 200 people, 200 participants show up at their events, except for a wedding, and that's going to entail probably 100 cars. And they could have, which they had in the past, a band, a live band, a DJ, and they could blast that sound as loud as they want because you guys can't enforce it yet because your decibel meters aren't calibrated, and you can fix that real easy and let the police department, or the sheriffs, I guess, handle that because the zoning officer is not going to be

[04:49:33] around when the noise is happening, and this noise could go on until nine o'clock on the weekends. They're saying seven o'clock during the week. The noise is incredibly, it's a lot. You can't live behind it. These people that are in support of it probably can't hear it. Some of the events they do, i i guess could be fine but celebration of life they could do that somewhere else they could do that at county park they don't what does a celebration of life have to do with a real estate office what does some of these events have to do with a real estate office this is this is

[04:50:11] zone residential all the properties around it are residential um let's keep it residential an office is fine if if you're going to approve this eliminate the noise eliminate the bands that plan they bring live vans in and they just if you live in the neighborhood you can't it goes right through the walls right through the windows you could you wouldn't want to live there no reasonable person 20 seconds and i'm assuming all you folks are reasonable people that's that's that's my

[04:50:48] argument and venues isn't listed as a permitted use and under the conditional use some somebody shoe that in at one time it's not listed it should be denied on that basis alone it's not a recreational facility thank you very much thank you sir one question uh what did what the what did the eagles do after they won the super bowl they held a parade uh downtown city hall right down through the center city of philadelphia yeah that's good good answer but before that they played the second half i get it i think it was what 34 to zero at halftime

[04:51:29] next sir please state your name the district in which you live you have up to three minutes my name is john spurrier i live behind the property whatever district that is it's a mechanicsville i'm not sure what the district is called necessarily you simply can't be outside during these amplified events i can't enjoy a glass of wine with my wife in a backyard property that i put a lot of money into with fieldstone patio and a professional seating uh heat pit that we can sit around if it's a little bit cooler We can't be outside, period.

[04:52:02] The amplified noise is insane. I've worked for over 20 years in a noise-related business, and this is louder than what gunfire and shooting ranges is, with this amplified noise. And he finds the comments funny, but he doesn't live in this area.

[04:52:22] All these people that stood up that want to amplify or increase the business value of this property by providing events don't live in the neighborhood that's being destroyed. My house is going to be greatly minimalized in value. If someone comes to buy my house in the spring, summer, or fall, and these events are going on, there's no way that they're going to buy it or they're going to offer me much less money than my house is worth because they've greatly degraded the value of our properties.

[04:52:50] Parking and noise, as it's been said already, they haven't abided by the bylaws and zoning restrictions that are in place already. They violate them on a regular business, on a regular basis. When they have an event on an evening, they start mowing on Friday or Saturday mornings anywhere from 6 to 7 a.m.

[04:53:09] Now, I get very early in the morning during the weekday, but I don't like being woken up by heavy-duty mowers at 7 a.m. on Saturday morning. They say they want to be good neighbors. None of these people here that want this business to turn into an event live in the neighborhood.

[04:53:25] So when they say they want to be good neighbors, it's a misnomer because they're not neighbors of this property. None of them would want this noise, this amplified noise, in their neighborhoods. And there was no pictures that were shown on the walls of any of the events that were amplified.

[04:53:41] You know, they were having hot dogs at picnic tables and that sort of stuff. Celebration of life would not bother me if it's related to a funeral. But these amplified events are insane. And we talked about three years, you know, December 31st, 2028.

[04:53:57] That's much closer to four years. That's a long time. if you start from today till the end of this 2028 that's that's much closer to four years in 30 seconds and again as it's been said they violated things up until this point so i'm very nervous that if this gets approved they're going to do whatever they want and again as i said 200 people that's a lot of people and again the amplification of noise and djs and rock bands in your backyard our properties are not worth what they were meant to be and i moved in before

[04:54:34] they bought this property so i had no idea this was coming and i didn't know that my property was going to be marginalized and degraded in value thank you thank you for your comments sir next please state your name the district in which you live you will have up to three minutes hello my name is susan gardner and i'm from the chickahominy district um and i agree with my neighbors back there who just spoke um the noise is the biggest issue of all it's amplified music the property at oak lawn is not large enough to hold these types of events the music can be heard on the

[04:55:13] opposite side of the neighborhood and if you walk into other neighborhoods even further away you can still hear the racket coming from the oak lawn property and this is degrading our property values just like John said, and no amount of greenery, shrubs, and trees are going to do anything substantial to buffer the noise. I've tried to plant trees along my fence line, and my house sits directly behind the Oak Lawn property, directly behind the house and their backyard there. And

[04:55:51] that's all it is, is a backyard. It is not acres and acres and acres of property where the sound can dissipate it's it's right there in my face and I have a porch I like to go out there and sit there I like to entertain my family I like to have some friends over but I'm not going to be able to do it I haven't been able to do it because I never know what's going to go on over there and if you want to plan you know your own little get-together in your backyard and I wouldn't be amplifying any music to bother my neighbors they don't seem to mind and we live here and we're paying the taxes

[04:56:31] and hometown doesn't live there they live somewhere else and it's easy to say this is what we're going to do these are the things we're going to do to appease the neighbors well it's never going to be enough because the property is not large enough it just isn't and please you're welcome to come to my backyard and sit through an event especially the noisiest ones of all I've sent several videos to the board and also to the noise Commission that we talked to before and I mean it was just taken

[04:57:10] with the cell phone but it's a war it's a roaring sound and I can go to my fence line that they talk about here on the property where they always park the cars there and honk the horns every time they close their lock their door honk honk honk honk honk honk it's like a bunch of geese constantly right behind your house and those are cars and then they come back 30 seconds the shouting keeps going and it's not just shouting it's screaming and the microphones is and then there's that deep bass sound it's

[04:57:47] it thumps so loud that the wall inside my house shakes and I can't say it loud enough but thank you thank you for your comments next please state your name the district in which you live you have up to three minutes mr. chairman board my name is Brian Davis up the Chickahominy district wanted to thank all of you for the time you've invested in this because I know your phones have been blowing up the last week months and thank you so much a lot of you spent time speaking with my wife Emily who's a physician works from home oftentimes doing

[04:58:21] telemedicine and so I'm speaking on our behalf and we strongly oppose the proposed modifications to the conditional use permit in fact i believe that before a lot of you took these roles that perhaps you were shoehorned in a bad position with something that maybe should have been thought out a little bit more deeply um my wife's from hanover she went to attley high school family's been here since 1993 we relocated back here to plant roots we built our first house in hanover in 2013 it was a little bit raucous and loud in the rutland area we decided we're going to go look at Garrison Manor to get a little bit of a quiet backyard, a little more space

[04:58:57] when our kids were toddlers. So now five years later, they haven't really been able to enjoy it many times because I'm not going to go ahead and talk about the noise. I think we all know it's fairly raucous when there's really no control. And sometimes these things, you know, turn into extra effort on the community because we have civil sermons who get called to come out and check about the noise and ask people to turn it down. We get, you know, court orders taken to people's houses where noise violations, you know, and there's just really no way to feasibly go ask your neighbor to please be a good neighbor when you don't have a neighbor in that residential

[04:59:34] property, as some of my neighbors have also said. The situation has become so challenging and persistent that my family is considering relocating. If this goes through, we have no way to really think that we can, you know, actually have enjoyment. My property corners up to this as well. And what are we going to do? We're going to go try to sell our home and people know that there's an event venue here where there's noise amplification. Is that going to deteriorate, you know, home value? And I'm sure a lot of the realtors in the room may want, you know, the houses to go up for sale. Great. But what happens to the comps? What happens to the values when nobody wants to move in, right? Sales prices trend downward. You know, you guys are in a tough position because you got to hear everybody. You know, those of us who complain and those of us

[05:00:13] who are rah-rah for it. And you're charged with coming to this decision. But there's 11 new things on that board that were just mentioned. Currently, we have one. This is a residential property being used as an office. If we can't abide by that and have some way to monitor and police, and that's not the right term for it, but to enforce the current permit and stay away from the county having to invest taxpayer dollars in a lawsuit. 30 seconds. What are we going to do with 11 things, not just one that we have to constantly look at three years is a very long time so we just ask

[05:00:49] that you um you know consider that we respectfully urge all of you to deny this current revision to think a conditional use permit and again really appreciate your time and all the effort and extra hours that you all have served our community for so thanks again thank you for your comments next please state your name the district in which you live you will have up to three minutes good evening mr chair board first i want to thank you as well for your time tonight and through this process it's been a long process i was here it's nice to see some of you familiar faces from 2019.

[05:01:25] i want to thank you we moved 20 years northern virginia loudon and fairfax county we moved relocated my family here in 2019. so i want to thank you for all your efforts and your time tonight and everything since we've been here since 2019. hanover county is great i volunteer for the county it's great it's a great place to raise the family i think i want to start i i first i want to commend hometown realty i'm i'm sure there's a lot of history they do great work and i want to commend them and thank them for all the work that they do for the county they really deserve um a lot of credit for a lot of the good things that they do i think the unfortunate position is

[05:02:04] that we're in this is because in 2014 the board approved garrison manor quail creek is there i I think if it was a different time, if this was 2012, if it was before the community was approved and come in, this might be a different situation.

[05:02:21] But now we're trying to put a square peg into a round hole. I understand their intentions. If I was a business owner and I wanted to entertain families and celebrate sales quotas, all those kind of things, I think it's great. I love Aerosmith, I love to dance, I love weddings, I love all those things.

[05:02:39] So I understand their intention. But I think what we really need to focus on here, and board member, Mr. Stoneman, I completely agree with you. We have an ordinance right now that's not enforceable. We have currently in there, for example, a dog can bark for more than continuous 15 minutes.

[05:02:58] So we have escaped, the only in five years, the only thing that we've been able to enforce is when they started cutting the grass, Rio Landscaping would come at 5:30 a.m. specifically was in the noise ordinance so that was corrected now they come at 7 a.m my point is is we are at the cusp here of commercializing a residential private home it is not the location yes it sits on 13 acres but it really is a quarter of an acre of what is the issue here because a lot of the property is just empty and vacant so we are does we are going to potentially

[05:03:36] commercialize a private home for commercial use in the center of a residential area i i don't want to be the bad guy here i want them to continue and have these events but this is just the wrong time the wrong location for these type of events 20 seconds so i would like if uh permission mr chair i just have some uh evidence here some 300 family homes from our first petition our second petition and also some evidence here that i'd like to just submit to the board and also possible um conflict of interest if the magisterial uh district is going to cast a vote tonight

[05:04:13] thank you for your time sir could you provide your name again please okay thank you sir okay next please state your name the district in which you live you will have up to three minutes hi i'm olivia and i'm ashani we live in the chickahominy district we feel that having the venue in basically our backyard makes it hard to do homework or have a friend over or relax.

[05:04:51] When they host large or small venues, we can feel the bases through the floor. When they mow their grass at very early times, it has woken us up and it makes it unpleasant to get ready for school and affects the rest of our day, if that's school, sports, or both.

[05:05:10] Thanks for your time. Thank you for your comments. Anyone else who wishes to speak in opposition, please state your name. The district in which you live, you have up to three minutes. Good.

[05:05:29] At Pasika Chickahominy District, Mr. Chairman, thank you for the time. Board members, thank you for the time. I will be brief. From now to December 28, or December 2022, equates to four summers. With 25 events on every Saturday from next weekend until the end of September, there could be an event at the facility.

[05:05:55] Just imagine living there, and every Saturday from now until the end of September, there's an event in your backyard. Even if you take it down to the 16 events, from May 15th until September 15th, every Saturday an event can be held there in your backyard.

[05:06:15] And I'll just leave it with that. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, sir. Anyone else who wishes to speak in opposition, please state your name. The district in which you live, you have up to three minutes. Hi, I'm Bridget Sting from Chicago District, i live right in behind this property i'll keep it very brief i agree with most of my neighbors who said that it's always loud a lot of events going on during this time frame so i would request you all to deny this thank you for your comments is there anyone else who wishes to speak in

[05:06:51] opposition seeing none we will now have the applicant for an opportunity for rebuttal thank you mr chairman um we i would just like to kind of try to address as many things as possible um without reiterating anything i had already in my presentation i just want to mention that we did purchase the property in 2019 and we have only really accounted about three events with live bands

[05:07:25] and then also one of the conditions specifies orienting the music towards the house so that'll definitely be a new condition that we definitely have to abide by so it'll just go towards the the house any kind of music whether speakers or a band they have to be in that designated event space and it has to be pushed towards the house it can't be going anywhere near garrison manor or the adjacent properties and Hanover noise ordinance is 7:00 to 10:00 so landscaping does begin within that time frame and then we are also setting these conditions to define what we're

[05:08:01] requesting to do for hometown related events for business corporate events charitable events and funerals this eliminates those public use events that happened to be a little more rowdy previously so this the and previously the ordinance hadn't explicitly defined what was allowed so that's why we are here now to try to set those guidelines that we'd have to adhere to there'd be no more gray areas there'd be something that planning staff would be able to reference if we were outside of those guidelines and for the community to to understand that we're trying to stick to that. We have regulations in place. Previously,

[05:08:41] there wasn't really anything that really explained to us what we could do as a business because hometown realty, we might function a little different compared to other businesses that we do these kinds of events. And then also the reason we have asked to add the Monday through Thursday on the conditions for the amplified sound events is to kind of reduce those weekend events.

[05:09:03] And we do just to remind it is from 10 to 7 on the weekends, so it's not going to prohibit nighttime bedtimes for kids and everything like that. So it'll kind of give us a little more room to have weekend during the day events or sorry, not weekend weekday during the day events and not every single Saturday.

[05:09:24] So, OK, any questions from board members? Supervisor Floyd. I just have a quick question. Will the list of events that you have to turn into planning be publicly available?

[05:09:41] I believe so. We have to provide that to staff quarterly, and typically anything like that, I'd have to refer to them. Andrew, would that be publicly available, the list of events? We could put that on our eTrackit software, which allows the public to access online.

[05:10:09] We're also, every first of the month, we can send the schedule to the Homeowners Association. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Any other questions? from board members i believe i have a question i'm concerned about the live bands just to be straightforward with you yes sir and the way the application has been presented there's no limit on

[05:10:38] that that could mean that 25 consecutive saturdays as a gentleman pointed out it could be a lot a live band what is your response to my concern uh we can limit it to three per year we'd have to be happy to make that a condition okay I think the there was a gentleman who made

[05:11:12] a very valid point yes sir okay the board would like so we would like to clarify we out of the 25 events we would restrict three events per year that are allowed to have a live band okay so amplified music I understand and I'm going to open it up to more questions ma'am but i'm going somewhere with this okay okay so in the

[05:11:50] last four years how many events have there been which have had live bands in the last four years i know since 2019 there's been three but in the last four years i don't know that answer sir okay so that's six year okay so i still don't understand the answer to my question in the last three years

[05:12:22] so so far this year all of 24 all of 23 and all of 22 approximately how many live bands have performed at this site approximately three approximately three okay so approximately three in the last three years that would be an average of one per year yes sir is that agreed to okay so then why would there be a request to limit to three per year that's more it's i'm not a math

[05:13:00] major yes sir but i'm doing some math okay that's a three-time increase from what has been done so far so that would be a more intense use than what has taken place that concerns me greatly just to be straightforward would you care to amend your position okay okay i will open it up for questions from other board members supervisor dibble i believe you had a question sure i'd like

[05:13:37] to sort of piggyback what you were heading into it's it's the noise and so it's not just live bands a DJ can make that same boom boom boom I know when my son arrives home from Virginia Tech he's got this big thing in the back of his forerunner that lets me know he's home with that boom boom boom stuff so it's not directional all the time it's just there and i know what it's like i mean you know he's home

[05:14:17] because it does shake the walls so i would like to see we us expand upon not just live bands but any amplification dj music that we restrict those i would be fine if we expanded that possibly to three a year including all of that band or any amplification i believe that they want to stick

[05:14:51] with the amplified conditions that we have fair enough okay any other questions supervisor dibble um so it it really is a worst case scenario is what we need to look at and the way that it's presented right now you could have a big party in garrison manor could have a big party in their

[05:15:23] backyard every single weekend with up to 200 people and that's a lot that's a lot I wouldn't consider that being a good neighbor I love the events that are there but I think that we could tweak it down so that we can be more definitive because I would not want to live next door to a place that had a party every single weekend I have 200 people to my house a couple times a year but that's it and i usually invite my neighbors so you know i'm not sure that that

[05:16:02] while i right i understand that you have come down from 40 to 25 it's still too much because i think that we also have to look at the quality of life for the people that live next door and in the area and are we disturbing their quality of life i think we are and i don't think you want to but i think it's not to a point yet where you're not disturbing significantly their quality of life and I really don't know how I would sell my home if someone came in and there was a party going on

[05:16:40] in the backyard that's a very very valid point so I think we're headed in the right direction I don't think that we're there yet and I would hate to think that we have to continue to send their sheriffs over there to make sure that we're adhering to what we agree upon.

[05:17:03] Would you say, staff, that in the past four years that we've had to go out there quite a bit, we've had quite a few complaints, we've been in and out of court, and yet it just doesn't seem that we've adhered to what we thought we agreed to?

[05:17:26] So I'm glad we're here tonight so that we can better define those things, but I'm not really sure that we're not at a point where we're still going to have the sheriff going out there a lot and your staff is going to have to spend a lot of time and that's not what we want moving forward as my comments for now any other questions or comments from board members i think i have some before we close the public hearing i think that there's been a very good effort to make this

[05:18:05] application more sensitive to neighbors, and I want to recount some of those. Taking the parking away from the back and putting it in the front is a good amendment, and that's appreciated.

[05:18:24] Lowering the number of events from 40 to 25 is a good amendment, and that's appreciated. I think when the parking moves, that helps with the lighting because we don't have the headlights back there especially in the months where it gets dark early there's no doubt in my mind that removing the weddings the primary concern I think is the receptions I think that is that is a good thing so when I first received this application I read it and I thought well I could see where this might work then

[05:19:02] when I really studied it really looked beneath the surface I started having concerns on the number of events I thought about weddings every weekend or so I thought about the noise I thought about the parking I thought about you know the lighting and those types of things and I thought you know this is really going to be difficult to support really difficult and then the applicant has made some what I would say what I would call improvements and I just listed some of those what I maybe I missed it or what I was not aware of

[05:19:37] was the live bands that can be louder than a reception and that is a that is a pretty serious concern live bands between the back of that building and those neighbors that's a lot of noise you're talking about electric guitars some bands have two guitars and a bass player and a drummer and a singer unless you're the band rush and you have three to cover all five but nonetheless

[05:20:12] that that can be a lot of noise and sometimes the singers like to rowdy up the crowd we've all been to concerts we've we've heard this kind of thing and that the three per year being straightforward before we close the public hearing is going to be very difficult to support the other thing is you know that I want to comment on now while the public hearing is still open reducing the number of events from 40 to 25 that's good staff has placed a recommendation at 16 and I came here

[05:20:51] today thinking well maybe we can work that out maybe we could do 20 when the gentleman laid out the calendar, though. It really got me thinking that 25, it's just too many, that this type of use could be going on for 25 consecutive weekends with three live bands and up to so many people.

[05:21:25] That's a concern. I think if I were able to support this, just being straightforward, because I appreciate a lot of the good work that the applicants do, a lot of the services that they do they're good community people overall i know a lot of people that work at hometown realty and and i would really like to see something work out here but i think 16 would be the max especially since we have that recommendation from staff there's only so many things that i can break

[05:22:02] with staff on here and the live bands are a problem i was not aware of that and i'm sorry I didn't catch that sooner I would like a recount from you on the types of events that we're talking about so we understand serpent corporate events that fit the business the realtor events okay gatherings we understand that we have defined a celebration of life to be I would call it

[05:22:38] funeral related not the other thing so we understand that what other types of events could take place? The only other event that we were requesting was charitable events such as working with the Young Life Association. Other than that it was just business oriented and and our celebrations. All right so that leads me to my next question and this is why I'm having a hard time making this fit. So we don't need a live band at the type of charitable events that you've

[05:23:14] described so far. Easter egg hunt and other things, Christmas events. Certainly don't need a live band at a celebration of life, a funeral reception. So what type of event would you anticipate having a live band playing at?

[05:23:34] Just a business event? Can I defer to Mr. Chenault for that? Of course. Yes, sir. That's nice. I'm wondering. Okay. My name is Mike Chenault.

[05:23:51] I live in the Henry District. I'm the broker at Hometown Realty. An old lawyer once told me I hate to ruin a good story with some facts, okay? If we had a band every weekend that sounded like the three that these folks are talking about, I would guess out of 132 neighbors that live in Garrison Manor, we'd have people out in the auditorium next door, right?

[05:24:22] So there's 132 families that live in Garrison Manor. So, number two, if you have a celebration of life, which we've had three unfortunate incidents, at every one of them, they've had a lady that sang a song, they've had a person that used an instrument, and so what we found is when the sheriff's office gets called, the sheriff's office isn't writing us up, right?

[05:24:55] So if we were doing the things all the time and every weekend and all the things that are being said here, I would believe, I know Dave Hines is good enough, he'd be coming to see me and talking with me, okay? I'm there. I'm usually there. The guys pull up, and I say, hey, what's up?

[05:25:12] And they say, we got a complaint. I said, well, are we doing anything wrong? They said, no, sir. Are you sure you guys don't want something to eat while you're here? No, they get in the car and they leave. So at some point, you got to use what's really going on.

[05:25:27] I would think all y'all are way smarter than me because I didn't test that well in a lot of areas. If there's 132 families that are bothered the way some of these people say we're bothering them every weekend, I would think there'd be 132 families plus 790 more people lined up out here.

[05:25:43] But you don't see that. You don't see that. So I just wanted to bring it to your attention. You're trying to pigeonhole us into spending a lot of money on a piece of property that some supervisors have told me we just need to go and put a subdivision in because that's what's compatible.

[05:26:00] Ms. Patrick lived here, and they put Garrison Manor around her, okay? That wasn't compatible with Oak Lawn, but we got Garrison Manor. And all these people have moved there, and now we got what we've got. So we aren't going to agree to do nothing there but cut the grass.

[05:26:20] And we're not, so when we say bans, you know, stuff gets twisted, right? When you walk out of here, stuff gets twisted. Ask this lady over here. She's got Sheriff Hines reports. How many times has Sheriff Hines put anybody in handcuffs? How many times have they written anybody up?

[05:26:37] How many times have they shut it down? So I'd encourage you to get some facts rather than just listening to all the fiction. But I believe Sheriff Hines and his crew runs a pretty tight ship. So maybe Ms. Hunter could tell you how many times Hometown Realty or any of our events have been written citations, have had a problem, have had anybody hauled away, have had any of the things that's going on.

[05:27:02] Because we're a good corporate citizen and it may not matter. And I'm a big boy, and I'm taking my lumps, and I'm learning every day. If you want that to be compatible, I'll do it. I'll do it. If you want that to stay green and pretty like it is, I'll do that too.

[05:27:19] I'm not bending over anymore. You guys have pushed me as far as you're going to push me. These folks have pushed me. And they got rights. Y'all have rights. I have rights. And it just boils down to, do you think we're going to be reasonable? And do you think we're a good neighbor? And if you don't, turn it down.

[05:27:36] We'll come back and see you guys again. But we can't keep twisting the screws because when you say no bands, well, when you get a guy playing a guitar and a lady sings a song, that's a band. That's a band.

[05:27:52] It doesn't have to be 40 things. So it's a lot more to it. And I realize it's a tough one. I struggle with it. Seven times out of seven, I can't come up with the same answer. If you want it green, we're willing to do what we're willing to do.

[05:28:08] and if you don't want to do it then i understand and i understand these people and that's fine but we're not gonna keep cutting and whittling we've already we've already feel like we've already done enough thank you for allowing me to say that do you have any questions of me sir yes sir i think i'd like to respond to some of your comments okay i think i heard something about bending i don't see it that way okay i'll be straightforward with you that's fine this is a land use case yes sir i like you and mr rogers i like hometown realty i've worked to try to find a way to support

[05:28:46] this yes sir so it's nothing like that but what happens is this is a residential zone yes and the board has approved the conditional use permit for the office and i'm fine with that but if i were to say i'm okay with three bands a year the definition of a band could include like i said two electric guitars bass player drummers well here's what happens the anger from the neighbor I'm telling

[05:29:24] everybody on this board right now it all gets shifted to us yes sir that's what happens and so I have to calculate that into our decision may I respond and one final 10 seconds sir then yes um property what what 10 seconds from properties and I want to say something so 10 seconds for me i'm sorry excuse me and y'all have done approximately one per year and you're asking

[05:29:55] for three that's more intense okay um residentially zoned property in our county has the zoning has the noise ordinance that has been shown to you today and can have all the different things that we're limiting okay a business property has the same zoning ordinance and has the ability to do all the things so when y'all are determining what hometown realty can or can't do and i've asked her

[05:30:28] to produce it where does it say in the residential zone or the business office that any of this is prohibited you have a noise ordinance that's what you have so you're making a decision without documentation and i know they're going to say what they're going to say they can't produce it i've asked so i'm fine either way i'm not i'm i'm upset i think you would be too um these people upset i get it it's a tough situation you guys do what you got to do and we'll all be friends and we'll just do something else tomorrow so thank you for listening to me i appreciate it any other

[05:31:07] questions from board members for mr chanel mr rogers or their associates applicants okay seeing none we will move forward and i will close the public hearing this is in the chickahominy district supervisor floyd thank you i appreciate everyone coming out tonight i have received hundreds of emails. I have a stack here that is double-sided of emails, so there has been a lot of community

[05:31:40] input on this. While I may have received 10 times the amount of emails in favor of approval as opposition, the opposition has valid concerns. Mainly the music is what I'm hearing for the residents that back right up to it. Usually that has to do with, I would think, a wedding where there's music late it is and loud um a live band like mike said i could absolutely empathize with

[05:32:15] those families i am a mom of three and if i were trying to put my kids to bed while there was loud music it would drive me crazy um so i completely agree with where they're coming from there and then those in support want to see this hanover landmark of oak lawn preserved and i can absolutely understand that as well. I've grown up in the Chickahominy District. I'm sure those who've lived in this area a long time can remember just driving by that house as a kid in awe of that

[05:32:49] mansion that we thought it was as kids. So I can definitely see both sides. I would love to preserve it as well. It is a nice visual break from the neighborhoods. I do worry that the Chickahominy District has just become a sea of neighborhoods. So this property, you know, is beautiful and is nice to see and drive by even if you don't use it. The application has changed a great deal from when we had the community meeting and from when it was at the planning commission.

[05:33:26] Now there will be no weddings. It will not be publicly rentable. And I think that helps tremendously with the noise issue, specifically the wedding receptions. So they are looking to do hometown events and charitable events. Reducing the hours of music was also key, especially on weeknights when kids are trying to go to bed. So having the music end on weeknights at seven

[05:33:56] and on Sundays by five is a great amendment. Again, being a mom, I can sympathize with the hours moving the parking was also another major thing that has changed now to the front field and not on the back fence line and and adding plantings is always a good idea the numbers of events have been reduced obviously there are still some concerns about the number of events but that the number of events has

[05:34:34] been lessened to reduce the potential impact for noise but I believe the applicant has made great strides in resolving the potential impacts that the neighbors had based on the concerns and feedback from the community meeting. I think probably to me one of the most important conditions is that this would expire in just over three and a half years and that the applicant would have to come back to renew. So when people are concerned that they won't abide by the restrictions, that wouldn't make much sense if they want to renew it. So it

[05:35:13] does provide accountability. I, along with many members of the Chickahominy District in our area, would like to see this Hanover landmark preserved. I understand some of the concerns that have also been brought up tonight about only three live band, three times a year with a live band. Live bands definitely probably are the loudest. I know the type that Mike is talking about. So

[05:35:48] So if we reduced the number of times that we had live bands or the outdoor events, I think that would help. So I'm going to motion to approve CUP 2024-00014 with the applicant's requested conditions dated 3-20-25, with the exception of 2-C, and reduce that to the staff's recommendation of 16 outdoor events per year and no more than four per month, and in addition, no more than three times a year of having a live band.

[05:36:26] Did I cover that all? For clarification, I believe you said no more than three times per year of having a live band. That's your motion, which is their request.

[05:36:44] Right. Okay. 16 events. So the motion is for 16 events. Right. And three live bands per year. Per year. That's the motion. Does the applicant agree to that?

[05:37:06] Mr. Chair, if I may, as Mr. Pompey indicated, this is a conditional use permit. so the applicant has made requests but it's up to the board as to what those conditions are whether the applicant agrees to them or not um is not necessary for the board to have a motion to include a condition okay so the motion is to approve with 16 events maximum per year and up to three live bands per year that's the motion sir and mr chair i think she also said uh

[05:37:42] up to four events per month correct right which was a reduction from the um request okay there's a motion on the floor is there a second i'll call for a second one more time is there a second hearing none mr county attorney where do we stand mr chairman there was a motion made that there was not a second so the matter is still before the board um any board member can can make a motion to either approve it as staff recommended or with some changes to defer the

[05:38:22] the matter or to deny it okay the chair will entertain a motion from any other board member on this application mr hudson before miss dibble i just want to get a clarification from miss floyd because we have said bands and amplified music 55 times is it reducing the amplified music

[05:38:55] whether it be a band or a kazoo that is amplified or is it bands the request that you made your verbiage is banned the the three per year was banned the 16 outdoor events per year so they could have amplified music with the restricted hours all right thank you ma'am mr. chairman I make a motion to deny the application as presented tonight there is a motion to deny the application as presented is

[05:39:32] there a second I'll second there is a motion and a second any discussion amongst board members mr. Stoneman so you know it's someone that that has an a venue like this and i've got this you know 90 acres to kind of tuck it back behind um you know my concern is 200 people whether it's a wedding reception or any kind of thing it's still 200 people with live music i don't think you can differentiate between those two types of events and you know the distance that uh from the back of the prop or the i guess the front going forward

[05:40:11] to the neighborhoods is is is so small you know i just know that the the uh the music is very disrupting to the quality of life and uh and that's why i find it hard to to get to a yes on this particular product supervisor dibble yes i would just like to sort of um roll out my thinking in making this motion even when we go from 25 to 16 we could still have a big party in our backyard every other week and again it's back to the quality of life for these neighbors and i think

[05:40:50] that they depend on us our citizens depend on us to protect that quality of life and protect that value of their home and so as it's presented it's just too much for me to support mr hudson uh thank you mr chair i would just like to say that i myself have fielded a lot of phone calls uh and I don't live in the Chickahominy District, but one thing I have learned as a business owner, I have been forced, some of you who support this have been to my place of business and have supported me.

[05:41:31] We had a community meeting one time, no more amplified music, and we haven't done it since. I live in a large lot. I'm well within my rights to go to the back of my lot and fire a weapon in Hanover County.

[05:41:49] One time, the sheriff's department showed up and said, one neighbor complained, and they just said, do you mind stopping so that we don't have to keep coming back over and over again? That's been 15 years. I don't think I've fired a shot other than perhaps a shotgun. So I want to be a good neighbor. I know many of you, I see a family out there and it is, somebody said it was tough. It is tough. I don't like the seat that I'm in right now, but I'm in the seat for a reason.

[05:42:29] i just cannot imagine having 16 weeks of noise i just can't so i will not be able to support it thank you mr chair thank you for your comments any other board members i do have some comments i would like to recognize all the citizens who wrote the citizens who called thank you for your feedback for your input i have not been able to respond to all of them i have read up until this morning so anything that came in the middle part of the day i have not had time to read i was here

[05:43:06] one o'clock today working so um i do appreciate all your emails so if you didn't get a return call or you didn't get a response that's why but just about up until one up until about 12 o'clock today when i left my house i had read all of your content so i wanted to point that out i do think that there's great value in this property. I love the property. I'd love to see it stay the way it is. I've tried to come to a place where I could support an application that would allow this fine group at Hometown Realty to have some of these events. Because there's some events that I do

[05:43:46] believe are good for the community. And no problem with the celebrations of life. I don't have a problem with a woman singing either. I don't have a problem with somebody playing a guitar. But for me, a live band, in my mind, I know what that means. I think about a nightclub band. That's what I think about. And I think that's just too intense of a use to put against residential neighbors. And I had asked to try to just get that to one. And my request is, the answer I heard was

[05:44:25] no. I also tried to get the number of events down to 25 to 16. I appreciate the gentle lady from chickahominy's motion um but i heard mr chanel say no he's not going to agree to that he doesn't agree to that so that concludes uh my comments i'm gonna have to support the motion and the second any other comments final chance for board members okay we have a motion on the floor and the second

[05:44:57] to deny so the vote will be to deny all in favor of denial please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed no okay madam clerk please pull the board miss Pritchard I miss Floyd no mr. Stoneman I miss Dippel I mr. Hudson I chairman Herzberg I so the application is tonight mr. Walter would you please provide a brief follow-up

[05:45:33] commentary including where we stand on the use of the property certainly mr. chairman as mr. Pompey indicated after the conditional use permit was approved we received a number of complaints from neighbors as to the activities that were going on that were in essence promotional events that would require a conditional use permit for an event venue planning worked with the the apple with the property owner and issued a notice of violation those enforcement proceedings were begun but once the application was filed there's been

[05:46:10] mostly a pause on those those have not been dismissed but the board's action tonight they will become we'll say live again there is a hearing scheduled for June in addition to going forward on that staff has notified the property owner the the property owner has indicated that they believe that they were operating in a gray area I think respectfully planning has made clear over the years what is and is not permitted after tonight's board action staff will review the complaints that have come in to see if there are any

[05:46:45] additional enforcement actions for activities in the past that staff has not indicated directly to the applicant that they can go ahead and perform and moreover and more importantly anything after this evening that is not directly related to hometown realty and the way that staff has indicated to the property owner that they can conduct it if we receive additional complaints additional enforcement action will be followed well thank you mr county attorney for your comments okay we do have another item on the

[05:47:22] agenda for this evening i am currently looking for it it is an ordinance mr pompey so the last planning related public hearing for the night is an ordinance amendment to create a new zoning district it will be the historic village zoning district again a completely new zoning district and i'll go into the details of that moving forward so in the comprehensive plan there are three areas designated as rural villages these are historic village areas that are outside the suburban service area they include beaver dam hanover courthouse and montpelier these historic

[05:48:00] villages have a unique development pattern including a mix of uses and buildings situated close to the road the problem with that is they don't necessarily fit into our modern zoning ordinances there's not a specific zoning district that accommodates existing or recommended development within the comprehensive plan so one possible solution is this ordinance amendment to create a zoning district that can be applied within the rural villages here are some maps showing how our comprehensive plan designates those rural villages we have beaver dam and handover courthouses are more concentrated compact villages shown in the comprehensive plan and then montpelier is the

[05:48:35] third rural village that's more linear going from near the montpelier center down to the intersection of route 33 and route 54. and this is typical of some of the development we see in our historic villages there's a mix of uses so right across the street from here you know we have commercial next to a duplex next to single family detached there's not a zoning district that accommodates a mix of uses both residential commercial in a rural village like setting variable setbacks a lot of our historic villages don't meet the modern setbacks many of our zoning districts require so they are considered non-conforming have they can't expand without either getting the variance

[05:49:15] or a special exception and this is the type of development you see in beaver day in montpelier again the buildings close to the road and then the existing residential development most of it is single family there are some duplexes and multi-family units and some of these historic buildings but most of it's single-family residential but the lots do not conform with our current ordinance so again across the street a lot of those residential lots are zoned a1 the minimum lot size right now and a1 is 10 acres but the average size across the street is about one acre so again these are non-conforming lots they are appropriate for historic village based on the

[05:49:51] comprehensive plan just historic development patterns but they don't meet our current zoning requirements so we are proposing this new zoning district that we work to develop with the community development committee this is a real life example in the beaver dam district so this particular building was built as a house in 1945 our first zoning was in 1959 so it predates zoning at some point in the 70s it was blanket zoned in this area b3 residential uses aren't allowed so this house continued as a non-conforming use was converted to a daycare in 2008 the daycare

[05:50:26] closed because of the way the zoning works that b3 zoning in a rural area it can't be converted back to a house it can't really be expanded because how close it is to the road what modern setbacks requirements are it can't be rezoned to one of our rural districts because the lot size is so small so these people are kind of stuck with b3 zoning that doesn't work in this particular area due to its rural nature low traffic and the type of uses that historically occurred there so based on the comprehensive plan recommendations and feedback from the community development committee a draft

[05:51:01] ordinance has been developed it looks at permitted residential commercial uses allows as a mix of those condition and creates new lot dimensional requirements residential densities and special design standards for both commercial and residential development i'll go into more detail that but all these along with the comprehensive plan recommendations and fit with that rural village context so in terms of permitted uses it's a blend of rs and b1 uses commercial uses by right are limited in size to up to 4 000 square feet larger commercial uses and conditional uses in our rs b1

[05:51:36] and b2 districts would be conditional uses here in rural village and the same with the special exceptions are similar to the rs and b1 special exceptions in terms of lot size if there's no public utilities then the lot size would be one acre where there is public or central water or sewer the minimum lot size would be 25 000 square feet so like here we do have some central utilities in the courthouse the minimum lot size could be about 25 000 square feet which would be just over half an acre and that's similar to what other localities have in terms of rural village zoning minimum lot with 100 feet that's comparable to other localities in that survey of lots across

[05:52:12] the street there is a maximum building footprint of 15 000 square feet because in these villages you don't typically have very large buildings and then setbacks vary depending on whether the structure is built before or after the zoning ordinance was adopted commercial development standards puts parking to the side or the rear to again maintain that rural feel and village feel that's recommended in the conference of plan there's parking lot landscaping landscape buffers and then certain architectural and building design requirements again to get to that historic and rural feel of the rural villages in terms of residential development the rural villages are

[05:52:51] recommended in the conference of plan to have limited single-family residential development and we heard during the conference of plan update that some residents who live out here do want some housing options so we allow up to one unit per acre minimum lot size one acre with no utilities with public utilities you could have about a half acre lot slightly above you can get special approval for a multiple use structure with up to three units that's already an option in our some of our b districts with a special exception that would carry over to our historic village district and then a duplex could be possible with a special exception of as well

[05:53:27] residential development standards setting the the garages back so they don't project from the front requiring cover porches foundations finish the brick or stone limited development size so residential development can only be 25 acres or 25 lots there's certain open space requirements sidewalk and pedestrian paths are required in the larger for more lot development street trees and public roads would be required the community development committee discussed this concept at three of its meetings in 2024 and one member of the public spoke to the committee during that

[05:54:06] process the board of supervisors authorized the ordinance amendment and its advertisement of the public hearings in january the planning commission held a public hearing in february and recommended approval with one revision they did revise the draft ordinance so that clinics would require a conditional use permit versus being permitted by right in these districts and no members of the public spoke during the public hearings so that concludes staff's presentation i'd be happy to answer any questions the board has about this zone district at this time any questions for mr pompey supervisor pritchard andrew i think i know the answer to this but i just want

[05:54:42] to clarify if if we approve this a building such as the the example one it could move back and forth fluidly it could be a business and then somebody could say i i want to live there and then the next person could turn it back into a business there's no set you don't have to stick with one thing in this room in this concept that's correct unless there are proffered conditions that a specific parcel limits the uses they could uh they could move back and forth as historically has been done in villages and one thing i do want to note approving this ordinance doesn't zone any properties historic village they still would have to go through the zoning process and we can look

[05:55:21] at each specific parcel and specifics of that situation to see if this district is appropriate or not and it could only be requested in those villages thank you any other questions from board members supervisor dibble i just have a couple comments first i'd like to thank staff for doing a deep dive on this ordinance with the community development committee and my counterpart in the western hanover we are the king and queen of preserving the rural character we're concerned with view sheds we love our historical buildings and this gives us flexibility

[05:56:01] to retain the vibes that we have going on and to really again the flexibility that we need to preserve what we like and want in Western Hanover so thank you for that and I think we've staff has come up with some some great parameters and I'm really proud of the work that that committee has done any other questions thank you sir this is on the agenda for a public hearing we will now open the public

[05:56:36] hearing is there anyone here to speak in favor is there anyone here to speak in opposition seeing none we will now close the public hearing i believe most of this is in beaver dam so i'm going to recognize mr stoneman first thank you mr chair um i too would like to to express my my appreciation to our staff and to our community development committee this project was or request was brought to me because of the the citizen out in Beaver Dam was kind of stuck with that property and they couldn't sell it a lot

[05:57:15] of reasons which already been mentioned and and so I you know brought this to community development and and they embraced the idea and they expanded upon it and made it really I think a great product for Hanover County and to help us preserve and to keep those structures from dilapidating now there's more flexibility uh to maintain them and so i really do appreciate that so with that i'd like to make a motion to approve ordinance 24-13 as proposed second there is a motion and a second any discussion seeing none call for the vote all in favor please indicate by saying aye aye any opposed motion

[05:57:55] carries Next on the agenda is announcements any announcements from board members County Administrator County Attorney. Mr. Chair I forgot to mention earlier and I'll mention again on April 9th but You may have noticed that this week we were once again named one of the top workplaces in the Richmond region by written times dispatch That's an honor. We don't take lightly. It's because our employees give the feedback on that and so And I've also heard from almost every applicant in our recent interview processes that that was a factor in them deciding to apply with us.

[05:58:33] And so I recognize it again, but thank the HR team and our employees for their feedback. Part of that process that is outside of the award is a continuous feedback process that we take that information we get and work on identifying ways we can continue to improve our internal services with our employees.

[05:58:53] So I just wanted to recognize HR for that work and that recognition. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Any other announcements from board members, county attorney? Mr. Stoneman? I'd like to thank our chair for giving me the opportunity to serve as vice chair.

[05:59:10] I realize that I'm on the opposite end of the oratory spectrum from our current vice chair, but I tried to represent it to the best of my ability. I think you did well, sir. Thank you for your willingness to serve. Next is adjournment, 6 p.m., Wednesday, April 2, 2025, for a public hearing on the budget to be held right here, County Complex Road.

[05:59:34] We are adjourned.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coraggio Consulting · aguyonx.com