Coraggio Consulting
Loudoun County Board of Supervisors, Business Meeting, Tuesday, March 7, 2023

Date: Tuesday, March 7, 2023
Place: Board Room, First Floor, Government Center, 1 Harrison Street SE, Leesburg, Virginia
Length: 4h 59m (video)
Official meeting video (county, Granicus): https://loudoun.granicus.com/player/clip/7208
Agenda (Granicus): https://loudoun.granicus.com/AgendaViewer.php?view_id=73&clip_id=7208

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-20. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:10] Hi, Missy. Would you like to test your audio? Can you hear me? I can. Excellent. Yep. Sounds good. Thank you. All right. You're welcome. Thank you. Bye.

[00:00:24] Good evening, supervisors. Good evening, staff. Good evening, Loudon.

[00:08:16] I'd like to call to order the March 7th, 2023, March 7th. Today's my brother's birthday for the supervisor's business ring. I'll call him after. This room has a hearing loop. If you need hearing assistance, switch your hearing aid to the telecom mode.

[00:08:33] If you need a headset, we have those available as well. This evening, Supervisor Glass will lead us in words of inspiration and the Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to use the words of inspiration from Maya Angelou, and one of her statements was, My mission in life is not merely to survive, but to thrive, and to do so with some passion, some compassion, some humor, and some style.

[00:09:06] Can we stand for the pledge, please? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[00:09:30] Okay. The proposed consent agenda tonight is as follows. Item R1, the proclamation recognizing Women's History Month. That is for approval and presentation. class I do believe where all the ladies on the dais will be joining you down front for that resolution I mean R2 resolution commending the rehabilitation of the John C Lewis Memorial Bridge that's for presentation only I'm sorry that's for approval only presentation will be at the bridge itself we have

[00:10:07] received emails about that and I will make sure everybody gets that item 1a appointments and confirmations item 2 administrative items report of March 7 2023 item 5 2022 North Virginia hazard mitigation plan item 6 a joint committee work plan is there a motion to approve the consent agenda the motions been made by supervisor Buffington seconded by supervisor Brixman any most any discussion the consent agenda mr. Brixman thank you I just wanted to

[00:10:42] mentioned that um i'm excited about the uh work plan for the joint uh school board committee we uh no surprise to everyone i am continuing the discussion of uh lining the high school tennis courts for pickleball when they are resurfaced to make sure that that's a continuing process with the um with lcps um we're also making sure that um we're looking at i think they were supposed to do a study on athletic fees, elimination of all fees throughout the extracurricular fees in the high school system. I understand that the final elimination of

[00:11:20] athletic fees is in the school's budget right now. So with any luck, we'll be able to take that item off the agenda for our work plan. And we'll also be looking at and getting a presentation about the MOU between LCSO and LCPS. So we have some very interesting items coming up.

[00:11:39] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Anybody else with a consent agenda? Ms. Glass. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I would like to also talk about the joint committee. And Supervisor Biskman had spoken to a number of things that we're doing. We're also working on safe passages to school.

[00:11:59] The student bus passes, as Supervisor Biskman has discussed before, do we talk about pickleball courts? And I just look forward for a successful year for the group.

[00:12:18] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Mr. Kirshner. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to thank this board and all those who had played a role in the restoration of what it will now be dubbed the John G. Lewis Memorial Bridge. If you haven't read the resolution, it's pretty interesting.

[00:12:33] It is a bridge that is on the National Historic Registry, built in the 1800s, has some significant historical significance to it. Thank VDOT and all those who worked on it at the time, Supervisor Higgins, and some of the other members on this board who were on the board at the time who authorized the restoration of that bridge in the western part over in Catoctin District.

[00:12:55] We will be having a presentation of this resolution at the bridge site at 11 a.m. on March 10th, if you care to attend. So thank you very much. Thank you. Anybody else? All in favor of the consent agenda, please say aye. Any opposed?

[00:13:11] That motion will pass 801. Mr. Sains, I guess, is coming. Has anyone heard from him? I haven't got anything from him. I guess it'll be coming. All right. Supervisors, we do have two closed sessions that are going to be in addition to the agenda tonight. And so I'm going to add those as additions without objection for the two closed sessions.

[00:13:33] And when we get to them, we will have that discussion, the discussions. Before, does anyone else have any additions or deletions to the agenda? Okay. Before we go on to, I don't have a voice for a cause tonight.

[00:13:48] I will next time. But before I go on to my chair updates, I do want to say that I think everyone knows we're in the middle of a transit strike, which is harder and longer than I wish it were.

[00:14:04] Having said that, there will never be a time, whether we're striking or not, I will not recognize the men and women who move the county. Will you all stand up, please? It is a tough time as we all work our way through this transit strike, but before, doing, and after, I know and I think we know that you are the people who move us home to work and then move us back to our families and give us where we need to go.

[00:14:33] And you will not walk in my boardroom and I not recognize you no matter what else is going on. So thank you very much. Okay, I do have some chairs comments today. First of all, it is the 20th anniversary of NVTA and we will be having a 20th anniversary celebration on a date that I have completely spaced out of my head right now.

[00:14:56] So I'll make sure that all of you all get that information for the 20th anniversary, I think the keynote speaker would be Mark Warner because Mark Warner was the governor the year that NVTA was created. I also want to report that the delegation has gone to and returned from Catalonia's Uruguay for our economic development, kind of a trade mission trip. It was an excellent, excellent trip. It was probably the most successful trade mission trip we have ever gone on in that there were literally contracts signed on the spot.

[00:15:35] I will just give you a little bit of history. A sister city, when we choose a sister city for Loudoun County, a sister city has to be a place that is similar to our county. And so we want some places similar in population. Loudoun has 435,000 people. Catalones has about 600 some thousand people. We are right outside of D.C. We have a major international airport. They have a major international airport. Their focus is two areas, agriculture and tech. Our focus is probably

[00:16:13] those same two, but the opposite, tech and agriculture. Visit Loudon and the person of Beth Erickson did just amazing yeoman heavy lifting on discussing having a—now I'm, like, out of my depth because I don't know anything about this, so I'm going to say what I know—have any blended Tannat wine.

[00:16:38] I guess there are Tannat grapes that are grown in Uruguay, and there are Tannat grapes that are grown in Laudan. I guess the Tannat grapes are different in each place, so a blended wine would be a blend of both the types of Tannat grapes. other agricultural wins.

[00:16:56] I really, really, while I was there, Mr. Kirshner, Mr. Buffington, there was so much that was rural economy focused that I wish you all could have joined us. Buddy and Robert Collier, such great work on the economic development side. We visited three small manufacturing, you know, that we're always talking about getting more small manufacturing in Loudoun County. We learned about their economy, you know, things that we think that would be really helpful to import in Loudoun to share, and things that are a problem for them.

[00:17:35] There was also, as there always is on these trips, cultural exchanges, again, things that they're doing well, things that we're doing well. We did have a reception at the America Ambassador to your grace home she's had been she's been an ambassador for a whole two weeks and so she was new at the job um joining me on the trip was miss uh was was miss briggsman who i'm sure we'll talk about this when when it gets to when she talks about this during her uh board comment discussions but really um as far as bringing business back to loud and having those international

[00:18:11] connections this may have been just one of our most successful and and I believe in the end profitable in many ways in many ways trips I will say that the delegation from Uruguay from Catalonia is planning to come here to Loudoun County before the end of the year they're kind of trying to target the October time frame because they're looking to stay they want to see our fall They want to see what fall looks like in Laudan, so probably the October time frame, and then we'll go back and forth.

[00:18:48] The sister city agreements were actually signed while we were there, which doesn't always happen. Sometimes you go and you hope they get signed, and for whatever reason, they don't. But the sister city ceremony and the agreement was actually signed with my counterpart in Catalones, whose name is Xamandu Ortiz.

[00:19:08] And they were just lovely, lovely, lovely hosts. So I appreciate Ms. Bricksman joining me on the trip. And I really, if you see Buddy Weiser and Robert Collier, give them a lot of kudos for putting together an incredible, incredible, successful Sister City trip.

[00:19:29] So I will stop there, and I will ask Mr. Hemstreet if he has any comments this evening. Thank you, Madam Chair. I've got four comments for this evening. The first is that with the time change coming this Sunday, Loudoun fire officials remind everyone that when you set your clocks ahead one hour, remember, you're setting your clocks ahead one hour, so make sure you do that or you'll be late to everything, that you also check the batteries in your smoke alarms.

[00:19:56] Most deadly fires happen at night. Smoke alarms give residents an early warning and thus give first responders a better chance to mitigate fire damage. Loudoun County offers free smoke alarm installations. You can learn more at loudon.gov for SAS Smoke Alarms. Second, Loudoun County will lead a regional collaboration of economic development agencies in 2023.

[00:20:16] Economic Development Executive Director Buddy Reiser has been named as chair of the Northern Virginia Economic Development Alliance, which was created to help boost the area's market competitiveness. The alliance includes Loudoun and nine other jurisdictions and is one of 18 such economic development coalitions in Virginia.

[00:20:35] Third, Loudoun County is holding two job fairs in the coming weeks. The first on Saturday, March 18th, and the second on Wednesday, April 5th. Each of the job fairs will feature several local employers with full-time, part-time, and seasonal job openings. Immediate opportunities are available in a variety of fields, including customer service, education, finance, government, hospitality, transportation, and waste management.

[00:20:58] Job seekers are encouraged to pre-register at loudoun.gov forward slash job fair. And then finally, registration is now open for this year's Bike to Work Day event, scheduled for Friday, May 19th. Loudoun County will once again host two pit stops where registered cyclists can pick up free T-shirts and other giveaways, enjoy refreshments, and win prizes.

[00:21:19] The Loudoun County pit stops will be along the Washington and Old Dominion Trail in Leesburg and Ashburn. New and experienced bicycle riders are encouraged to register for the event at loudoun.gov forward slash bike to work. Those are my comments this evening, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Madrid. I do think that you neglected to say that this Sunday is also Selection Sunday for the NCAA tournament and that I will be having the brackets and that I am quite sure, I'm quite sure that I'm going to beat Carl Rush this year in my bracket.

[00:21:52] In fact, I'm positive I'm going to beat Carl Rush. In fact, I'm just going to say I'm going to beat everybody this year in my bracket selection. And I'm going to go further and say that I believe my alma mater, Memphis University, is going to go to the Final Four. I'm going to say all that right now, all that.

[00:22:09] Yes, yes, I see your face. I see your face. I think all that's going to happen. But Carl Rush, I'm going to beat him. I'm going to beat him, that's for sure. All right, we have an information item tonight that will be the real property assessment update.

[00:22:30] And as that team comes to the table, I'm actually going to adjust the agenda so that our action item number four is done after the information item because it's the same people, and then they can do it all and then leave. You can do the information item and then the action item, and then you're done.

[00:22:48] Thank you, Madam Chair. All right, sounds good. I appreciate you altering the agenda to accommodate our schedule tonight. Not a problem. Madam Chair and board members, we were here a couple weeks ago to give you real property assessment update for 2023. We would ask that we come back today to answer any questions that you might have. It was not our intent to run through the presentation again. That was all sent to you individually. We do have it available to pull up if you have any questions about any particular slide. I will tell you how the administrative review process is going

[00:23:25] for us this year. We are a little bit behind the number of administrative reviews that we're hearing from taxpayers relative to their valuations. We have 11 commercial underway and 168 residential. That's out of about 147,000 parcels to give an update on that. I also did want to let you know that the deadline for filing an administrative review with the office is this Friday, March 10th. So we're working through those right now. And then I'm just happy to answer any

[00:24:00] questions that you might have or that you may have come up with since we last got together. And we do appreciate you coming back. We really do. I know that you didn't mean to run through them this quickly, just how it went, but I couldn't have formulated questions at that time, so I appreciate that very much. Questions? Ms. Glass. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for are coming back. I've had some constituents that live in, specifically one loud and that has contacted my office regarding their townhomes, and they're reaching out because

[00:24:38] of the drastic increase in their tax assessments over the last year's assessment. I mean, it's very, very high. So why do some residential re-evaluations have such drastic increases in the course of one year instead of gradual increases over several years well i'm going to let jim address that but before he does i do want to let everyone know that there is no legislative limit on the year over year change in valuation in the commonwealth of virginia

[00:25:11] and that's regarding assessments that may go up or go down so we don't have that in the commonwealth We are required to value at 100% fair market value, and if we were to have such limitation, we wouldn't be able to assess at fair market value because it could be the actions of buyers and sellers in the market push values up substantially, and with that limitation, we couldn't be uniform in our assessments.

[00:25:41] But Jim, you can address the One Loudon, please. Yes, we have received some appeals from One Loudon townhome owners. During the process of reviewing two or three of them, we realized there may be some additional work to be done there.

[00:25:59] So the assessments are based on the sale prices that we have in there. But in this case, we think there's some room for review for not just the people who appealed, but others who may be in that development as well.

[00:26:16] Thank you. I'm going to circle back around to that. Ms. Bricksman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Do you know if there's other states that actually limit the valuations that are allowable? Increase in valuations that are allowable?

[00:26:35] Mm-hmm. Microphone. California has a limitation on the year-over-year increase. We don't have that in the Commonwealth. Right. It'd be a constitutional change. It would be the Constitution that we'd have to change. It would be. Okay. And no other states you know of? I know California off the top of my head, but I know Maryland phases them in over a number of years.

[00:26:57] Interesting. Mm-hmm. If there's a change, substantial change in valuation, they phase it in over a couple of years. Gotcha. Yeah. And I understand there actually were some challenges with that in California. But anyway, what would be normal increases, right?

[00:27:19] Like, I mean, the data center evaluation in 21-22 went up 56%, 22-23 went up 56%. We've got houses going up 9.3%, 7% for townhomes, and 11% for condos.

[00:27:36] Do we know how we compare in the state and then maybe how we compare nationally? Are we just off the charts, or is this just kind of normal for right now? We just received some information from one of our peers in the area relative to what they've seen with revaluation.

[00:27:57] And I don't know if we're, I know they were holding that in advance for release. We do talk to our neighbors, Fairfax, Prince William, Arlington, Alexandria. Around December, we are asking, what are you seeing and so forth.

[00:28:17] So we have noticed that counties like Loudoun and Prince William, who are a little bit further out, we're still seeing increases a bit higher than what you might see inside the Beltway. OK, there's multiple reasons for that. But, you know, the the transition to telework and those type of things that maybe we have have seen people looking further out.

[00:28:43] Interesting. OK. And then the other thing that sort of caught my attention, it seems like construction had gone up for single family homes. And then you mentioned in the report that it had gone down for townhomes. And so that does make me a little bit worried for folks who are trying to get into home ownership.

[00:29:04] And one of the questions that came to mind for me was, what about condominiums? Do we know about construction for condominiums, if that's gone up or down? That went up higher than any category in 2022, 67%.

[00:29:23] There's a lot of the two-over-two type being built. That seemed to be a product type right now. But, yeah, they did increase quite a bit. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Cost, I think cost has a lot to do with that. You saw the numbers on the average price of homes in the county, $800 and some thousand for single family.

[00:29:46] Ms. Umstead. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is on the assessment ratio and the recommended assessment ratio. I believe for this coming tax year would be 95%.

[00:30:04] Last year, I recall, was it 85? This is relative to personal property. Personal property. If you wanted to address this now or you wanted to wait for item four. We could wait if you'd prefer to wait. Okay.

[00:30:20] The assessment ratio was 80% last year, and I'm recommending 95% this year. We have seen vehicle values continue to be elevated. And what we're hearing from the industry as a whole is that might become the new normal.

[00:30:38] They're limiting the manufacturing of automobiles in order to keep prices up. And so it could be that we might not see them return to pre-pandemic values.

[00:30:53] and year-over-year declines like we have historically seen. And so the recommendation that's included in the item for personal property is in conjunction with your rate reduction of 415 from 420 and an increase in personal property tax relief from 27 to 33 and the assessment ratio we feel that it's going to help blunt that impact

[00:31:25] of the increased valuations and part of it too is that we've noticed a decline in the number of vehicles overall in the county we're not the only locality to experience that I had a neighbor neighboring locality indicate that they had or a similar locality I don't know if they're neighboring indicate that they had seen the number of vehicles go down as well it might have to do with the availability of vehicles people just not buying them maybe they're all riding their bikes or Riding Metro now that it's open, right?

[00:32:03] One follow-up question, Mr. Wirtz. When you compare what the 80% assessment ratio resulted in last year to what the 95% assessment ratio would result in this year, taking into consideration the 415 tax rate this year, Do you think an individual's taxes would, the average individual's taxes would go up this year or?

[00:32:38] I believe the average individual's taxes will go up even with the reduction in rate assessment ratio and increase in PPTR. And Doreen here is my deputy personal property taxes and she has helped put that information together and I'm not sure if she wanted to add anything to the comments I've already made.

[00:32:59] I think that what Bob has said really kind of sums it all up. We're seeing a lot of things happening. There are vehicles in the county that actually did go down in assessment.

[00:33:15] So the whole combination is where we're at, and I think we've got a really good hold on it this year. Thank you.

[00:33:31] And part of it's difficult because you're looking at vehicles individually. as Doreen mentioned some did go down some went up some went up a little so thank you very much so I have I have three questions I one more came because with Ms. Glass's question because with due respect I'm not sure I I really heard an answer to her question of what to say I mean so her constituents email her from one loud and what is she saying to them is she saying listen they're going to take a look at this again that there could be some things that they want to reassess and just give it a second, and they're going to circle back around to you.

[00:34:09] How is she responding to her constituents and my constituents in one loud end? That's my first question. My second question is overall, we are getting quite a few e-mails about, you know, and we do this every year. We get e-mails, but more this year. And I send them on to you all, and I know you all have got to be slammed busy right now because you have all the ones that you're actually reviewing.

[00:34:30] But are you also just answering constituents' e-mail? I want something on to you, and this guy is like, you know, my assessment's too high, yada, yada, yada. I forward it to you. Is there somebody on your staff who's responding to those emails? Because I'd like to know that, because otherwise that person will circle back around to me a second time and ask me that.

[00:34:50] And then my third question is a question I ask every single year. What happens to the people who do not have computers, to people who do not know this stuff? We are a very, very educated county and a very, very tech county. And I think because of that, we assume that every single person has a computer and can respond or every single person can even read what's been sent to them.

[00:35:14] And we know from experience that's not true. And I haven't seen anything to address those people who might have an issue but not, you know, they get it in the mail, they're not sure what they're looking at, they don't have a computer. mean this is exactly how we got in the situation in howardsville what are we doing about those people first i'll address the one loud and issue um and questions that you may have from our constituents um refer them to my office they will be in touch with the appraiser that's been assigned

[00:35:48] to value their neighborhood their specific unit okay and their neighborhood um and when evaluating the value concerns that a property owner may have let's say in one loudon the appraiser is going to look at the entirety of that type of unit in that neighborhood when evaluating that assessment so it's possible that even if someone did not contact us that they may decide that as an example a four

[00:36:24] level townhome with a an elevator maybe the valuation that was established for that is a little too high so they would make a change to the one if there was a property owner that contacted us the one that they contacted us about as well as all the others so then you'll get back to them absolutely and say this whatever you say but let them know that that their assessment cost is going to be different and if a refund is due to them they would get that well nothing's been billed yet but yes but yeah but if it was okay all right all right absolutely so i would encourage

[00:37:01] you to have them be in touch with our office okay yeah um regarding folks that you um have indicated don't have a computer i would encourage you to have them be in touch with me about that we've had this conversation before i i i i know you have an instance of one resident in we have owardsville a number of years ago well but that one resident paid thousands and

[00:37:38] thousands and thousands to dollars too much in an assessment was never able to get it back because time had passed so one one resident 100 wasn't a thousand residents for me it doesn't matter i'm going to try to get it right no matter who they are i agree so i i'm you and i should sit down we should we should sit down a little lunch and figure this out because we have to get an answer sure okay thank you yeah um you want to go on to item number four any other real estate assessment questions nope nope okay um item number four we already talked about um this is a

[00:38:13] proposal to establish personal property tax relief for 2023 on personal use vehicles at 33 percent and I'm recommending a ratio of 95 percent and as I mentioned before the board's already established a tax rate reduction of 415 from 420 and I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. So Ms. Umset you want to go back to the question you had before or was your question answered? Okay Ms. Bricksman? Thank you. Okay this was a little bit confusing to me this item

[00:38:50] probably read it twice um how are we it says that we're valuing at 33 but then it says we're valuing at 90 at a 5 relief can you explain to me what's going on there like in layman's terms i can there are two things at play here normally during this time of year i come to the board of supervisors and make a recommendation for personal property tax relief only that's the personal property tax relief that started out as part of Governor Gilmore's no car tax campaign.

[00:39:28] And over time, the cost of that program across the Commonwealth became too high. So the state said, we can only spend $950 million on this. And then they froze the amount of money that Loudoun County gets for car tax relief at $48 million a year.

[00:39:47] So in order to, because Loudoun County's pool of vehicles is changing, the board has to decide how much relief of that $48 million gets applied to the pool of qualified vehicles that we have.

[00:40:02] So in order to get that money from the state, the board has to set a personal property tax relief amount each year. And that's the normal resolution that the board does. That's 33%? That's the 33% that's being recommended, correct. The other part that we're talking about is an assessment ratio.

[00:40:22] This is something that's new. Loudon has never done this. There's authority in the Code of Virginia that allows the use of an assessment ratio. It was used the first time last year because of the substantial increase in vehicle valuation as a result of the pandemic and supply issues.

[00:40:41] So this is only the second time that Loudon has used that. The board could have addressed this in a number of ways. could adjust the personal property tax rate, which they did. They could change personal property tax relief, give more relief, and also use an assessment ratio. Okay, hang on. I only have like 45 seconds left. Yes, my apologies. Let me see if I understand this. Are we using the whole 48 million? Yes, you are. So, we're already reducing 33%, and then we're doing a valuation at 95%, whereas last year we did it at 80% valuation, which I think is the best way to go,

[00:41:18] honestly i think it's the smartest way to go we discussed it last year um why why did we decide 95 and then what will be the um impact on revenue to the county and then maybe the average impact on each taxpayer i don't know the average impact on each taxpayer i don't know if toren does that we've got an example of the predominant vehicle tax in the item on page three that tells you how

[00:41:46] that might work out um in table one okay i see that table one yeah page three the table table two on page five it shows you the five percent ratio and then it also indicates the issue mic on mic on oh i'm sorry um on page five uh table two uh there is um a table that shows you the assessment ratio And then there's the column next to it shows it without the assessment ratio.

[00:42:23] And, of course, we apply the assessment ratio first before we apply the 33%. So without the ratio, an $8,000 vehicle would have a tax bill of $235. Oh, I'm sorry, it does have the, it's showing the 29% without the ratio and 33% with the PPTR.

[00:42:46] So it would be $235.72 at $8,000 with just the PPTR. It's $211 with the PPTR and the 5% assessment ratio. But it says 10% on the top of the chart.

[00:43:03] I see that. Okay, so that's wrong. That is wrong. I'm sorry, Madam Chair. And then what are we not going to get in revenue? It's 95%. Well, of course, revenue will go down if we're applying all this, but we are still fairly equal to what we had last year.

[00:43:24] I think there is a bit of an increase, but we took into consideration. We did consult with the budget office relative to what the impact of this would be. Okay, thank you. We'll follow up.

[00:43:43] Thank you. Mr. Letourneau? Thank you. So I was just trying to get at how do we arrive at 95 percent? What were you trying to sort of solve for at 95%? Was it to keep people mostly flat? That's what we were trying to do overall and address the fact that some vehicles did go up, but not as many as did the prior year.

[00:44:03] And the amount of change year over year was not as great as it was last year. But were we just looking at vehicles that went up, or are we sort of taking into account the fact that a lot of them jumped up last year and now they're staying there? We're looking up at that overall, which is part of the challenge when we're even doing this exercise because of the vast variety of vehicles that we have.

[00:44:28] Yeah. It's complicated. All right. And then on the PBTR thing, you know that I've been on the soapbox for this for a very long time. I do. Because I think Loudon in particular, for lack of a better term, is screwed by this because we are so fast growing that we have more vehicles that have been registered since this was implemented.

[00:44:51] So I think the attachment 2 shows 20-22 PPTR percentages. But what did confuse me a little is it's listed for Loudon at 27% PPTR percentage, not 33.

[00:45:08] Because this is the trends with just the PPTR, not including the assessment ratio. Yeah, but I thought just the PPTR is 33 this year. No, it's 29.

[00:45:26] The PPTR is 29% this year without an assessment ratio. With the assessment ratio, it was determined to be 33%. I see. But it actually went up because this is the 2022 list, so we're actually at 27? It did go up this year. This is the first time it's gone up, right?

[00:45:42] A long time? Ever? Because there were fewer cars? Yes. Okay. But if you look at this chart, you'll see the only one that's close to us is Arlington. You know, Prince William is at 45. Fairfax County is still almost half.

[00:45:59] So we've really dropped way down, and most of these other localities have stayed much closer to 50%. They haven't had the growth at Loudoun County. Because we've had more growth. So this particular formula uniquely penalizes high growth places of which we are the highest growth.

[00:46:18] And that's probably why it won't get fixed, and it's exactly why I've been trying to get it fixed, And we've been doing this part of our legislative program for probably a decade that I've been on the Board of Supervisors. But I do think it's something that we should occasionally publicize for our residents because they don't know that they're getting screwed like this, to be honest with you.

[00:46:36] And it's because they live in Loudoun County and the formula that the state has, you know, it's not by the county, but the formula the state has penalizes us uniquely. So I'm going to ask you to do a little education for me because something you said was really interesting.

[00:46:53] And so I totally understand supply and demand. you know if you have less of something the price goes up for that thing got that but with cars um so you said that they're producing less of the car that the price goes up but when they and this is this thing and then i'm just getting educated now when they make more money if they produce the cars and just sold more cars even at a lower price point i mean i was gonna i was gonna sell my car i looked at price value prices of cars i was like i love my hyundai i'm gonna keep this a little longer when they when they make more money if they if they produce more cars and then sold more cars

[00:47:29] i don't i don't have their formula for hey hey hey okay you can't educate me expensive restaurants make quite a bit of money selling less meals sometimes than other less expensive restaurants do as well so i guess it's interesting that's interesting i didn't realize that yeah you know i'm a massive car guy right yes i know you're a massive car guy it's not just that it's it there truly are still supply chain issues like honda for instance of america if you go to any honda dealer there's almost nothing on a lot they still are having massive supply chain issues

[00:48:07] so part of it is that makes more sense yeah yeah you can't produce as many okay that makes more sense yeah then okay well that yeah that yeah all right thank you all very much have a great evening except we have a motion would the car guy like to make the motion sure i move the board of supervisors approved the use of an assessment ratio of 95 for tax year 2023 that would reduce the value of vehicles assessed using jd power national automobile dealers association evaluation guides to offset the continued unprecedented increase in vehicle values and adopt a resolution provided as attachment one for the personal property tax

[00:48:46] relief based on the new assessment methodology to the march 7 2023 board of supervisors business meeting action item allocating personal property tax relief for the 2023 tax second you discuss it you know just to be clear i'm a car guy not a car tax guy just to be abundantly clear no further discussion anybody else all in favor say aye any opposed that motion will pass 9-0 thank you board members very much appreciate it appreciate you guys thank you have a good night all right supervisors the other action item we have i i pulled it off consent because i knew we'd have

[00:49:23] people to come to speak on the item during public comment and so and I actually did so much research on this item I actually want to talk about a little bit and so and so we cannot start public comments or resolutions until 5:30 it's just a rules of order we can't start so what we're going to do is read in the closed session and do two of the closed sessions that we have right now and then when we come back we will come back and do public comments

[00:49:56] resolution and public comments after the two closed sessions so mr. Sains the closed sessions are on in your would you like them you got them okay you want to reason in the both of them please all right we're gonna close session one and two yes sir move that the board of supervisors recesses public meeting entered a closed session pursuant to section 2.2 - 37 11 8 8 of the code of Virginia to consult with legal counsel regarding legal advice pertaining to proposed agreement and 2.2-3711A7 to consult with legal counsel about actual litigation in the Leesburg Election District. For closed session

[00:50:34] number two, I move that the Board of Supervisors recess this public meeting and enter the closed session pursuant to section 2.2-3711A7 of the Code of Virginia to discuss the settlement of actual litigation concerning the acquisition of property in the 2022 Dulles election district 2011 Dulles election district motions made and second by Supervisor Umstad discussion on the motion all the people say aye

[00:51:00] and oppose thank you and we are in closed session okay we are back and um we're going to read out

[01:31:52] of closed session Mr. Sains can you do that for us please I sure can thank you all right I move that the closed session, I move that the Board of Supervisors recess this public meeting, oh no, sorry, I move that the closed session be adjourned, that the Board of Supervisors reconvene its public meeting, that the minutes of the public meeting should reflect that no formal action was taken in closed session, and further move that the resolution certifying the closed session be adopted and reflected in the minutes of this public meeting. Motion made, so I second.

[01:32:22] Motion made, and seconded by Supervisor Glass. Any discussion on the motion? Please affirm, Mr. Letourneau. Affirm. Affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm, and I affirm as well. Only people say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion will pass 801. Mr. Turner, you have a motion.

[01:32:43] I do, Madam Chair. I move the Board of Supervisors approve the terms of the proposed settlement agreement with 41887 Mosby Properties, LLC, in exchange for the county's payment of $2.5 million to 41887 Mosby Properties, of which $208,594 has already been paid.

[01:33:00] Mosby Properties agrees to settle the county's eminent domain case, case number CL21-1186, and the county will receive fee simple title to the entirety of PIN 203-257708, located at 41887 John Mosby Highway, Aldi, Virginia, in the Dulles Selection District.

[01:33:21] I further move that the county administrator or his designee is authorized and directed to execute such settlement agreements, deeds, and closing documents approved as to form by the county attorney or his designee to effectuate the settlement and acquire a fee simple title to the subject real property. Motion is made and seconded by Mr. Buffington.

[01:33:38] Discussion on the motion. Mr. Letourneau. No discussion. Anybody else? Discussion on the motion. All in people who say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion will pass. 901. Supervisors, if you have nominations, please put your light on.

[01:34:00] Mr. Turner. Thank you, Madam Chair. I nominate Juanyi Zuo to the Board of Equalization to fill the at-large alternate seat on the Board of Equalization. Thank you. Mr. Buffington.

[01:34:16] Thank you, Madam Chair. I nominate Krishna Hachuri as the at-large representative for the Facility Standards Manual Public Review Committee. Thank you. And I will nominate Anthony Cimino-Johnson for the Arts Commission. And I will nominate Rita Colcom for the Environmental Commission, but specifically for the Environmental Commission as a subject matter expert for the clean transportation seat.

[01:34:50] Thank you. Supervisors, let's do board comments. I will call on you. You have five minutes for board comments. Let's start with Supervisor Bricksman. Thank you, Madam Chair. And by way of disclosures, my staff met with Molly Novotny of University Center Lakeview application on March 1st, and we had a Cascades Marketplace town hall with Grant Ehat, Michael Majestic, Colleen Gillis, and others with Willard Retail on the Cascades Marketplace application.

[01:35:17] I did want to comment on our trip to Uruguay. It was phenomenal. We had a lot of good opportunities and synergies in our economies, and I'm sure that Economic Development and Visit Loudoun will pursue them. We definitely had a great amount of support from the U.S. Embassy and the local government of Cantillonas.

[01:35:34] One of the things I appreciated the most is that, yes, they're very proud of their country and a number of things that they've accomplished in energy, in workforce, in getting women into the workforce. They were also really transparent about some of the challenges that they're having in a number of areas, And that is what kind of opens the door to being able to work together and have cooperation and partnership.

[01:36:02] So that was very, very refreshing. I want to highlight some of the very impressive accomplishments, though. They have changed their energy consumption to be nearly 90 percent renewables with wind, solar, and hydrogen. So they are actually producing enough energy with renewables at this point that they can export their energy.

[01:36:23] And it's becoming an economic driver for their nation, which I found fascinating. Also, they have an institute for women in their government, and they work really hard to make sure families have access to child care if they want to work. This was apparent in our visits to private industry, where several of them told us that they were actually building schools and or providing child care to the community as well just to their employees and providing transportation for those things.

[01:36:51] It's also apparent that the Cantalones government takes gender parity and equity into consideration at all levels. Chair Randall and I met with many from the governor's cabinet at a Women Leaders Roundtable where we shared lots of ideas and challenges and solutions.

[01:37:09] I know we have made some lifelong partners and friends in Cantalones, and I can't wait to see this relationship blossom. And I appreciate Madam Chair allowing me to join her on this trip. Madam Chair, I should say, represented Loudoun County amazingly.

[01:37:28] Thank you. Madam Chair shared all kinds of interesting information about our county. She's very knowledgeable about everything that she was talking about the whole time. And your direction and stewardship of this trip was amazing. Thank you. So congratulations on that, Madam Chair.

[01:37:44] Thank you. For Women's History Month, I just wanted to share some statistics. According to GAO, women earn on average 82 cents on the dollar for every man, and the gap widens for those with intersectional identities, where women on average in their career will earn about a half million dollars less, especially in the higher professions over like a 40-year career.

[01:38:05] Said in another way, the most recent QWI data from 2020 showed, which is the most recent available records on this subject, that women have earned 30% less than men on average in our nation, and that gap increases dramatically with age.

[01:38:26] Equal Pay Day this year is on March 14th. For those who don't know what Equal Pay Day is, it will take women in this nation till March 14th of this year to earn just as much money as their comparable counterparts in similar jobs earned in 2022. So in other words, it takes us two and a half months to catch up. So as you can imagine over time, what that does to the wealth gap and our ability to save for retirement and those sorts of things and maybe pass something on to our children. The good news is we have International Women's Day coming up on March 8th, Women's History Month, and much, much more,

[01:39:05] where we recognize our value and achievements against all odds. And we can celebrate wins like the Women's National Soccer Team, who won their case on equal pay recently. I invite anyone who's listening and my colleagues to go to womenshistorymonth.gov, where you will see a myriad of opportunities in Washington and the region to learn about women's history. And it's like almost like every museum down in D.C. has something going on for women's history. And I will be watching our

[01:39:39] sister city closely on March 8th when the nation of Uruguay will be joining the other Latin and South American nations on the women's strike. And so women are literally not working the entire day of March 8th in support of International Women's Day. So I'll be watching very closely and I find that very interesting and exciting and it seemed like they were supported really well supported by their government on that um this is the 66th day of the year we've had 104 mass shootings 7630 total gun deaths of the deaths this year 4356 for suicide 3274 for homicide this includes 42

[01:40:17] children under the age 11 and 265 between the ages of 12 and 17 thank you madam chair thank you Thank you. Mr. Kirshner. Madam Chair, I'll use about 10 seconds of my time. I don't have any board comments, but I do have one mandatory disclosure. On February 23rd, I met with Thomas Pompero, Ed Donahue, Chris Eads, and Chuck Hedges about the Lovitzville Vintage Airdrome application.

[01:40:40] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, sir. Mr. Letourneau. Thank you. I have two disclosures. On February 22nd, I met with Mike Knightsad and David Jordan to discuss Special Exception 2017 0018 Royal Center Plaza and on March 6th I met with Sasha Brewer of Walsh Kalushi to discuss Special Exception 2022 0026 and ZMOD 2022 0035 and Compass Health Expansion. I have no other

[01:41:13] comments. Thank you sir. Mr. Turner. I have no disclosures and no comments Madam Chair. Thank you sir mr buffington thank you madam chair no disclosures and proud to say that the women in my office are in more money than i do and it's it's well deserved and i'm very happy about it that's it that's all of our offices that's true we can all say that right yes yes that's true no comments no disclosures thank you Ms. Glass.

[01:41:51] Thank you, Madam Chair. I have one disclosure. On Monday, February 27th, my staff participated in a pre-application meeting for PRAP-2023-0002 Greenway Animal Hospital. I attended the NBRC meeting on February 23rd where there was a discussion regarding raising funds for the people of Turkey and Syria who lost loved ones, their homes, and livelihoods.

[01:42:20] There's a website that you can go donate to. It's visit www.helpearthquakevictims.org. Also, NVRC will be co-hosting a virtual workshop on March 22nd from 10 to 1130 a.m.

[01:42:39] to explore litter monitoring opportunities for Northern Virginia. And if you want to find out more information or register for the workshop, You can go to www.novaregion.org slash 1564 slash NOVA dash litter dash monitoring dash workshop.

[01:43:04] That's all, Madam Chair. Thank you very much, Ambassador Sange. Thank you, Madam Chair. No mandatory disclosures and no board comments. Thank you. Thank you, sir. And I have no mandatory disclosures, but something happened this past week that was so egregious to me.

[01:43:24] that I think impacts every person in Virginia, maybe even in the country, that I just, I'm not only writing an op-ed about it, I've sent it to the Washington Post and other papers, but I cannot let it go. I just can't. This past week, our Lieutenant Governor, Winston Sears, said that the Brown v. Board of Education decision was not about racial segregation in schools, but rather about school choice.

[01:43:52] Now, people can have their own opinions about things, but you cannot have your own facts, especially when those facts completely try to rewrite history. Ms. Sears is not a fan of public education.

[01:44:11] I'm not speaking out of turn. She has made that very clear that she wants to take public dollars and send them to private schools, parochial schools, home schools. That's her opinion. I don't agree with it, but that's her opinion. But to restate and misstate what Brown v. Board of Education was, is a travesty.

[01:44:29] The Supreme Court, when they ruled on Brown v. Board, and the Chief Justice Earl Warren, who wrote the opinion on Brown v. Board, said the following, We come then to the question presented, the segregation of children in public schools solely on the basis of race, Even though the physical facilities and other tangible factors may be equal, deprive the children of minority groups of equal education opportunities.

[01:44:54] We believe that it does. Well, first of all, we know that the separate but equal was never equal. Let's just start with that. That just wasn't true. But there is no reading of the Brown v. Board decision, which overruled the 1851 Plessy v. Ferguson decision that actually said that you could have racial segregation.

[01:45:18] There's no reading of the Brown v. Board of Education decision where anyone, anyone who was not trying to read that reading incorrectly could read anything but that this decision was about segregation. And the fact that the lieutenant governor of the state of Virginia would actually stand up and not only say it, but then when questioned about it, defend it, and then have her staff defend it and make this an issue about school choice is a travesty.

[01:45:50] There is something called history, and we just came out of African American History Month. And I said last month, during African American History Month, but the moment we don't need African American History Month anymore is the moment that African American history is tied alongside American history.

[01:46:09] When that happens, we can stop being African American History Month. Not only has the lieutenant governor got it wrong, but she got it wrong in African American History Month on what is maybe one of the three most important rulings when it comes to race relations in this country, the Brown B Board of Education ruling.

[01:46:31] I will be writing an op-ed to Lieutenant Governor Sears. I will be asking her in this op-ed if she ever heard of Plessy v. Ferguson. I would be asking her in this op-ed if she's ever heard of Thurgood Marshall. I would be asking her in this op-ed if she realizes that that was a 9-0 vote.

[01:46:50] I would be asking her in this op-ed if she's ever bothered to read the decision or even a Wikipedia of the decision. Because if you do, if you read even a Wikipedia notion of the decision, you will learn. And it is so clear that this decision was about one thing.

[01:47:06] the rewriting and retelling and whitewashing of African-American history in this country cannot stand. We have a governor down in Florida that no longer allows them to say that there were people who were enslaved or slaves. He is calling it forced integration. The rewriting of African-American history in this country must not stand and winsome sears lieutenant governor sears if you are listening

[01:47:40] to me right now you are wrong you are incorrect and you need ma'am to correct that statement those are my board comments this evening thank you supervisors we're going to start with the women's history month proclamation um amber are you in the room i know you are there you are Ms. Glass is going to be joined down front by Ms. Bricksman, Ms. Umstead and myself and the Commission of Women and Girls, who I'll talk about when we come down, just a second.

[01:48:16] Amber, you can introduce yourself and tell a little about the commission yourself. I can tell a little about the commission if you'd like me to, but you will be receiving the proclamation on behalf, thank you, sir, to be given to the Commission of Women and Girls and we'll meet you right down front. Go ahead, Mike.

[01:48:44] Ms. Glass, would you like to read the proclamation, and then we will have, you'd like to speak about the commission, and anyone else who wants to make comments, can make comments.

[01:49:17] Thank you, Madam Chair. Loudoun County, Virginia Proclamation. Whereas since Loudoun County's founding in 1757, women have substantially and significantly contributed to our society in various aspects, including their service in the United States Armed Forces, healthcare, science, technology, business, education, arts, agricultural, and politics.

[01:49:41] And whereas throughout Loudoun's history, there have been several women to note, Elaine E. Thompson of Hamilton, an educator and local historian who was a founding member of the Thomas Balch Library's Black History Committee, Hilary Burton of Sterling, a nationally known actress and graduate of Parkview High School, who co-founded Project Patriot, a nonprofit organization that helps to raise funds and support Parkview's extracurricular programs.

[01:50:11] Susan Catherine Corner Wright of Hillsborough, an inventor and technical mentor to her children and aviation pioneers, Orville and Wilbur Wright. Madeleine Albright of Hillsborough, who was an advocate of the United States' global interests and the first woman to serve as Secretary of State in 1997 during President Clinton's administration.

[01:50:38] Lucy Mene Girard of Middleburg, an American Red Cross nurse who served during World War I and who was appointed as the first superintendent of the United States Public Health Service Nursing Corps. And whereas in November 1976, Jerry Gardner was elected and sworn in as the Guilford District Supervisor, becoming the first woman to serve on the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors.

[01:51:09] Subsequently, 21 additional women have served. Shannon Getty, 1978 Sterling. Betty Tatum, 1981 Guilford. Anne Cavanaugh, 1984 Dulles. Alice Bird, 1988 Sterling.

[01:51:25] Betsy Brown, 1988 Catoctin. Joan Ralkus, 1992 Leesburg. Reedy Snodgrass, 1994 Mercer. Dale Myers, 1996 at large. Helen Markham, 1996 Catoctin, Eleanor Toe, 1996 Blue Ridge, Sally Kurtz, 2000 Catoctin, Lori Waters, 2004 Broad Run, Susan Buckley, 2008 Sugarland Run, Kelly Burke, 2008 Leesburg,

[01:51:58] Andrea McGimsey, 2008 Potomac, Janet Clark, 2012 Blue Ridge, Suzanne Volpe, 2012 Algonquian, Phyllis Randall, 2016 at large, Kristen Umstadt, 2016 Leesburg, Julie Briskman, 2020 Algonquian, and Sylvie Glass, 2020 broad run.

[01:52:23] And whereas in January 1987, Betty Williams Tatum was elected by her colleagues to serve as the first female chair of the Board of Supervisors. and in January 1996, Dale Poland Myers became the first woman to serve as the chair at large for the Board of Supervisors elected by the voters of Loudoun County.

[01:52:48] And whereas, Loudoun has several nonprofits that focus on women's health, physical and mental wellness, and support, and the Loudoun County government employs hundreds of committed professional women who serve our community with grace, dignity, courage, and class.

[01:53:05] Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors does hereby proclaim March 2023 as Williams History Month in Loudoun County and recognizes the vital role and contributions women make to Loudoun's economy and workforce and significantly add to Loudoun's present and future development.

[01:53:31] Thank you. I'm honored to be here and accept this proclamation on behalf of the Loudoun Coalition on Women and Girls Board of Directors. We are a local 501c3 organization dedicated to promoting leadership development and fostering an inclusive environment for women and girls in Loudoun County through education, collaboration, and empowerment.

[01:53:55] We strive to be a data-driven organization. In fact, we just put out a report with the third year of data from our Voices of Loudoun Women Community Assessment Series. We're very grateful for all of the support from members of this board as well as the county government as a whole.

[01:54:13] And through the – oh, I have to introduce myself. Sorry. I'm the vice chair of the board of directors for the Loudoun Coalition on Women and Girls. And I wanted to share a little bit, too, about an event we have coming up sponsored by the Department of Economic Development on May 5th.

[01:54:32] It is the Loudoun Entrepreneurial Women's Business Seminar, and we invite all members of the community to come and participate and continue making Loudoun a great place to grow. So, first of all, thank you for coming.

[01:54:54] The Loudoun Commission of Women and Girls is doing fantastic work, and you're doing data-driven work. You did the information on child care needs. That's the one Ms. Brickspin quotes quite often, and you're just doing fantastic work.

[01:55:10] You know, I want to say that the morning after I was elected, one of the first phone calls I got was a woman named Dale Pullen Myers, who's in the proclamation. She was a chair at large of Loudoun County. She was a Republican. And she said to me, this is going to be really hard.

[01:55:29] And I said, no, it's going to be fine. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fantastic. And she said, this is going to be really hard because you're a woman. And let me tell you why. And she went through some things. And of course, like when you just get reelected, you kind of have that elected, you have that kind of election glow.

[01:55:45] You're like, you know, you're walking on air. And I thought, yeah, man, oh, man, Dale Pollan Myers was completely correct. You know, it is it is different being a woman in elected office when when people criticize us.

[01:56:04] They they often use, you know, terms that people use when they believe that they're insulting women. and their criticism is not often about our policies, it's about our gender and such. And so this is not the first board to have this many women.

[01:56:23] In fact, there was a board that was elected in 2011 with the majority of women, were women. But I am incredibly, incredibly grateful to be serving with the three women that I am serving with and very proud. I think I'm even more proud, though, that, and this goes to the credit of Mr. Hemstreet and Mr. Yeh, that we have so many women in Loudoun County who are in leadership positions.

[01:56:50] And it makes a difference. Women lead differently sometimes. And so I won't start naming everybody because I'll miss someone. But women lead differently. In Loudoun County, if you look at all the other counties in the area, I believe we probably have more women in positions of leadership than anywhere in Loudoun County.

[01:57:10] And that does speak to the county administrator, the assistant county administrator, well, yeah, the assistant county administrator, but also just the understanding that it's, you know, that there is power in being a woman.

[01:57:25] And I always say that, you know, there's power in my femininity, right? There's power in being a woman. And sometimes I tell young women, you don't have to be like, you can wear a dress and be powerful, right?

[01:57:43] You can, oftentimes young women think to make it, they have to be one of the guys. And I always try to get them away from that and say, no, no, no. There is so much power in being a strong woman and surrounding yourself with mentors who are strong women.

[01:58:00] And I actually never understand women who say, I don't have any female friends. I only have guy friends. Are you kidding me? There is something in the sisterhood that is no kidding and no joke. And so I always tell young women that there's nothing wrong with being feminine and finding your power in your femininity if that's who you are, if that's who you are to do that.

[01:58:23] So I appreciate the commission, women and girls. I appreciate all of you so much. So anybody else taking this microphone right now? No. Thank you. Let's get a picture. Y'all want to be in our picture.

[01:59:58] Before we start our public comments, I am going to take a point of personal privilege and say that my friend, my Sorensen graduate classmate, and my sorority sister, I'm a member of a sorority, a member of a Delta Sigma Theta sorority, my sorority sister, her name is Jennifer McClellan. And she's being sworn in right now, in four minutes, in the United States Congress as the first woman of color to be sworn in, the United States Congress from Virginia.

[02:00:19] Jennifer is, Congresswoman McClellan is an absolutely fantastic person, very, very policy, policy-focused. She's an attorney. She's brilliant. She is permitted. She is smart. She is funny.

[02:00:37] And she asked me to come down and join her today. I had a meeting, so I couldn't make it and join her. But I do want to extend from this board our congratulations to now Congresswoman McClellan on this history-making moment. All right. Okay. It's only four minutes early, but we're going to go on and start.

[02:00:55] Board comments, or public comments, rather. I'm sorry. Public comments. When I call your name, please come to the podium closest to you. State your name for the record, and then after two and a half minutes, you will relinquish the podium to the next speaker.

[02:01:12] I don't think, do we have anybody online speaking tonight? I don't think so, do we? I don't see anybody. Yes, we do, Madam Chair. Do we have a couple online? Oh, they mixed them in the cup. Okay, all right. I will call your names like three people in advance, and so you know if you're coming up next.

[02:01:28] All right, our first speaker is Michael Sheen, followed by Christina Kimmel, followed by Sandra Vigil. I never get your name right, so pronounce it to me. Is it Vigil or Big Jill?

[02:01:44] It's a possibility when you come up here for me, Sandra. All right, good evening, sir. Good evening, guys. Thank you for the pleasure of letting me speak with you all this evening. My name is Michael Shem. As the nice young lady who took my request to speak tonight, when I gave her my address, she gave a little gasp when she found out I live in Hagerstown, Maryland.

[02:02:08] And you can hear the subliminal question, why does someone who lives in Hagerstown, Maryland, want to speak to the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors? Some of you know my face. I spoke with John Ertle. We did lobby visits for the ATU 689 with Loudoun County Transit.

[02:02:24] and it kind of is upsetting to be standing here on day 56 of our strike against Keolis Transportation. That being said, we want to come back to the table. Keolis has met with us once and only once since January 1st. In that meeting, they gave a proposal, we gave a proposal, and they said they have to go back to their people to do math. Nobody there was qualified

[02:02:59] to do math. So in my experience, that if you want something, like they want us back to work, They should have folks there who can do those things. They didn't. They didn't want to be there. We wouldn't be there.

[02:03:15] We were set to be there all night long. People ask why I travel all the way to Loudoun County. When I started with this group almost 20 years ago, I worked at a Savage, Maryland, driving a motor coach, and I came down here to help a struggling teammate unit function, and I fell in love with the county and the people I transported.

[02:03:41] Unfortunately, even as a dispatcher, 20 years later, I still can't afford to live in Loudoun County, Virginia. Granted, I have a beautiful house in Hagerstown, which I wouldn't trade for the world. My family's happy, so hence I'm happy. But until we have equal wages for all of our drivers, so right now we have drivers making $20 an hour, Nova Hospital starts a janitorial staff at $20 an hour, as well as my brothers and sisters with CDLs in their pockets, trained professionals

[02:04:13] are only making $20 an hour. Please get Keolis back to the table with us any day, any time. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Kristen Kimmel, followed by Sandra Vigil, followed by Omar Kogali, followed by Lori Nguyen. Good evening. We're still here, and we're still fighting, and as the union sold us one day longer, one day stronger, everybody has a fight, and we can't give up our fight. If they would come back to the table and not stick to their last and final offer that they gave us

[02:04:53] the last time we met we could be getting somewhere but they have stuck to their last and final offer we can't make an offer if you don't come back they're telling everybody they're waiting on us for decisions we're waiting on them that's why we're out here in the first place is because we're waiting on them they have pushed us and pushed us and pushed us until we're like we're not waiting anymore you need to do something tell us something now they're offering them things that they weren't gonna offer us in there so they were in there saying well we're getting

[02:05:27] this and we're getting that but you can't do it for a group you can't do it evenly so we need them to have some type of urgency we're willing to stay outside but we want to go back i mean we eat good food we have good talks we've all bonded we've learned like what are some health reasons why people are out there, you know, what are their needs, like maybe their kids are sick, mine is a health reason. So we've bonded in different ways, but it would be better to bond as a group and work together as a group instead of being forced as a group. And that's what they're making

[02:06:06] us do now. So hopefully you guys can get them back to the table, make a fair offer so we can get a good contract. Thanks. Thank you. Sandra Vigil, followed by Omar Kosaglis, followed by Lori Winn, followed by Linda Colbert. Good evening. Good evening, and you have my name correct. Okay. It's Vigil, or Vigil, but it's Vigil better. Okay. So I'm here once again also. Mr. Turner, hello. I know you and I had a little conversation last time that I

[02:06:44] felt at the moment betrayed, but I hear where you're coming from. This company has told you guys they're offering heaven and earth right and that we should take what they're offering what they're not telling you is what they're not offering they're not offering stability with the proposal that they put out they're offering us to go back and check months years back of video cameras in order to discipline we're not safe we go back with what the contract that they're offering now we're not safe we can get fired next week and get fired tomorrow if we go back

[02:07:21] with the contract that they're proposing, okay, one of the things we won't have is a health care that is accepted everywhere. I live now in Smithburg. I lived here in Lowne County. I had to move out because I can't afford to leave here. It's an hour and about 10, 15 minutes away, hour and 15 minutes. The health insurance that I have is not accepted by doctors close to. I have to come all the way back here to Lowne County. So God forbid one of my kids gets sick overnight.

[02:07:51] Then my out-of-pocket is a lot higher. Health-wise, as I told you last time, I've been postponing a procedure that's going to cost me $8,000 out-of-pocket, okay? Because this is what this company has offered from day one. This is not what we had previously.

[02:08:07] We've heard from some of you guys say you guys didn't read between the lines. I get that. So why are we paying the price for a mistake that you guys made when you gave these people the contract? I understand you did it because it was the legal thing to do. I get that. But we're paying the price of that.

[02:08:24] It's true. we're not striking against you guys. We really aren't. We appreciate the ones that have stood with us and for us. We do. But at the same time, you understand that we've been out here, like he said, 56 days. And the problem with that is our families are also paying that price. I haven't had dinner with my children I don't know how long. And on the weekends, we have work to do because we have to let the public know what's going on. Nobody else should have to go through what we've gone through with this company. If from day one, somebody comes and steals from your home, Were you allowed it back in your home?

[02:09:00] Well, this is what these people did to us. And you guys gave them the contract. So somebody has to step up. Wouldn't they be the ones who employed these people? Obviously, you guys didn't know they were going to do that. We understand that. But don't make us pay the price for it.

[02:09:18] Don't make my kids, don't make their kids, don't make our families pay the price for it. And definitely do not make the public pay the price for it. You know how many people are stranded at home and having to pay twice, triple, quadruple the amount of money weekly because they cannot take a bus to work. I know you guys are thinking about, you know, at least the company's telling people inside that we're going to lose the MCIs.

[02:09:43] Not one of the passengers that I've transported to the Pentagon, to Crystal City, or to D.C. has ever told me, oh, I want to take the train to work. It's on the contrary. They've always loved the buses. Why? Because it's comfort. After a long day work, imagine yourselves having to transport yourself, you know, in something else, in a train that's going to take you double the time. We're not asking for handouts. We're not asking you guys to do something that's not acceptable. We're asking for your help to get back to work. We don't want your money. We want

[02:10:17] the money that we earn. That's all we're asking for. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Omar Kogagli, followed by Lori Wynn, followed by Linda Colbert. Good evening, sir. Hi, good evening, Yes, as my colleague said, my name is Omar Kogali, first of all, and I'm here operating with QLIS.

[02:10:46] And as our colleague said, we hope to finish this strike because we have been here for 56 days. And you already come to us. Thank you for your support.

[02:11:01] You join us in the marching and everything, but nothing reflects in the reality. we didn't see anything we are looking your support to make the people make all of us to come together and negotiate and get what we believe is a fair wages and fair health care and retirement this is what all we ask and because we are we all working under umbrella of london county and so So we are looking for your support to go there.

[02:11:37] Thank you. Thank you, sir. Lori Nguyen, followed by Linda Colbert, followed by Carlos Rosari, who will be joined with an interpreter. Good evening, Ms. Nguyen. Good evening. Madam Chair and Board of Supervisors, I'd like to address some of the questions and concerns that came from the meeting last month.

[02:11:59] First, there was a concern of northern breeds getting mistaken as wolf dogs, as this does happen frequently. My organization is also in rescue. We work with animal control all over the country on a regular basis. Last month, we worked with animal control in Rhode Island.

[02:12:14] They labeled a Blue Bay Shepherd a wolf dog. We pulled him from the shelter and brought him to safety since he was at risk of euthanization due to being in an illegal area where bans like this were being proposed here in Loudoun. He has no wolf DNA in him.

[02:12:31] The question was asked if a wolf dog is a breeding of a pure wolf and a dog. The answer is no. Wolf dog breeding began 70 years ago. Back then, it was wolves mixed with northern breeds and German shepherds. For decades now, wolf dogs have been multi-generational breeding of wolf dog to wolf dog or wolf dog to a northern breed to restore the wolf look.

[02:12:51] It is very rare to see a pure wolf to a dog pairing today. Only in zoos there are wolves bred to wolves. Wolf dogs are not in zoos. They do not carry diseases that zoo animals carry, only what a canine can carry. but they are vaccinated for all diseases with the same vaccines as your dog.

[02:13:08] In 21 years of owning wolf dogs, active in rescue, education, conservation, and advocacy, I've only ran into a pairing one time of a wolf and a dog, and it's actually right now in Alaska. I also have concerns about vet care. If there was to be a ban, would they still be allowed to see the vet?

[02:13:26] I've called several exotic vets, and none of them have experience with wolf dogs. My regular vet does, though, because he has been my vet for sage and for rosemary. My final concern, what if Rosemary was to die young? What does this mean? I can never live with such an amazing animal that brings me joy, love, and emotional support again.

[02:13:45] In conclusion, I believe wolf dogs should be excluded from the proposed animal ordinance because they are not an exotic wild animal. They enjoy many of the same activities as your average dog, walks, car rides, toys. They go to the same vets as any other dog would.

[02:14:00] They do not put the public at risk for any disease beyond what the average dog does. And most importantly, as per the question and answer with Animal Control in December, Loudoun County Animal Control stated they have never had an experience with wolf dogs related to incidents that justify them banning them in the first place.

[02:14:20] There is no such thing as a big, bad wolf to be afraid of. Thank you. Thank you. Linda Colbert, followed by Carlos Rosari, followed by Michael Tabina, I think. Good evening.

[02:14:37] Good evening. I'm Linda Colbert. I am the chairman of the Government Affairs Committee for the Dulles Association of Realtors. I'm here just to support businesses and homeowners that are concerned about the changes in the short-term housing.

[02:14:54] We appreciate the efforts that have been made and the revamping that has been done. It seems to have been very successful. A few issues that people still have major concerns about are the hiring of somebody to monitor the situation for enforcement and monitoring of short-term housing.

[02:15:16] I think that being a positive resource for people doing short-term housing would be great. I don't think that monitoring and being a supervision of short-term housing is necessary.

[02:15:34] I was here a few times before, and we were told there weren't a great many complaints about short-term housing. So to hire someone to oversee it may not be a necessary function right now. Anybody that's been involved with short-term housing knows that it's very much a review-driven industry.

[02:15:55] It's based on, it's very self-patrolling. If you don't do a good job, if you don't have the highest standards, you are not getting return customers, you're not getting on the website, you're not getting the attention that you need to get people to stay anyway.

[02:16:12] So there is a lot of self-monitoring with short-term housing. So I feel like we don't want to jump the gun with having to supervise or monitor, but to be a resource maybe for people doing short-term housing.

[02:16:28] would be an asset to the community. The other issue I think that's still a little bit concerning is the 180 days. I actually made a few phone calls to people that do do short-term housing, and all of them actually said, we don't want to do 180 days.

[02:16:44] Like, that was unusual for somebody to do that many. But if they have the opportunity, they're willing to put the time and the effort into the housing. I'm not sure why the 180 days is there. It's kind of arbitrary, and maybe it's not necessary.

[02:17:01] I would just ask you to keep an eye out for just the least amount of restrictions, the most amount of resources, so that the folks that are doing it know where to come for questions and answers. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Ms. Colbert.

[02:17:17] Carlos Rosari, followed by Michael Tabiner, followed by Naya Banks. Good afternoon, board, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for this time. We try to explain the situation for the London County Transit Employer and the subcontractor Keolis.

[02:17:39] Llevamos 56 días esperando en esta situación. Las cuentas y los pagos se acumulan y hay otros gastos que aparecen y no tenemos cómo pagarlos. Keolis nos hizo una oferta que en este condado no es suficiente.

[02:17:58] Por ejemplo, yo soy mecánico, y los costos de la herramienta están bastantes elevados. Que Oli no está interesado en negociar con nosotros. Ustedes tienen el pastel en la mesa, y saben cómo cortar los pedazos al tamaño de la necesidad que estés pasando.

[02:18:17] Sabemos que pueden hacerlo. No sé que los detiene. Solo que el Dios creador del cielo y la tierra les dé la sabiduría para esta decisión. Gracias. Yes. Just a second before you start. When they get to zero, put it back at 2.30. It's two minutes. It's five minutes. It's an interpreter. Okay. That's okay. That's okay. Thanks.

[02:18:40] So we've been out 56 days waiting in this situation. The bills and the payments are accumulating. There are other costs that are coming, and we don't have the money to pay them right now.

[02:18:57] Keolis made us an offer, which is not enough in this county. For example, I'm a mechanic, and the costs of my tools just are already highly elevated from where they've been, and they don't last very long. Keolis is not interested in negotiating with us.

[02:19:14] You have the cake on the table, and you know how to cut it up, cut the pieces to the right size. We don't totally understand why we haven't been able to do it yet. I don't know what's stopping you.

[02:19:30] I just hope that God, the creator of the earth and the heavens, gives you the wisdom for this decision. Thank you. Thank you. Michael Trevenar, followed by Naya Banks, followed by John Walker.

[02:19:46] Good evening. Hi, my name is Michael Tavnir. Tavnir, thank you. I've been working with Lorden County since 2011, since they first started in Percival, and I moved back down to Leesburg.

[02:20:03] What I've been hearing and what most of us have been complaining about is the health care issue. Now, another thing is I wish, because most of my coworkers say they're ready to come back to the table and discuss whatever issues they have to talk with you guys or Keolis and come to agreement.

[02:20:28] I mean, can't we all get together and get to the table and decide what insurance? Because, like, the insurance we have now is terrible. Every time we go to the doctor, we have to pay such a high co-payment. And, you know, after that, you end up with a big bill.

[02:20:45] So can't we all, I mean, get together and discuss if we can get a better health care and so far as the pay? I mean, because everything is going up. The cost of living is going up. And not to mention that a lot of my co-workers and I feel like we're saving the company money to some degree because a lot of us, we're not trainers, we're bus drivers.

[02:21:14] Besides driving the bus, a lot of times they have us training other new employees. And even with the covert and flu epidemic, when I get on the bus in the afternoon, because I do the 70 route, And when I get on the bus in the afternoon, a lot of times the bus is dirty and the driver before me don't clean it.

[02:21:38] So I have to like clean inside, besides doing my pre-trip, after I do my pre-trip, I have to clean the bus and use sanitizer, wipe, which I spend my own money to buy. I'm not asking the company for money to buy these things, but I'm buying, I'm cleaning the bus and I have all kind of elderly people, kids, different people get on my bus. And, you know, so I was hoping that we all can come to the table and reach an agreement to where we can agree

[02:22:10] on insurance, the raise that they want to give us. And because some of us, we all here have CDLs and some of us, they want to pay differently. Also, some of us drive the small bus, the big bus, They want to pay different from the small bucks and the big bucks.

[02:22:29] Thank you, but your time is up right now. Okay. Thank you so much. Naya Banks followed by John Walker, followed by Shane Crow. Good evening. Good evening. Naya Banks, ATU, Local 689. We are still on strike because we need health insurance that we can actually use.

[02:22:48] We have to pay for doctor's visits, surgeries, and medication out of our pockets in addition to our monthly premiums. Most doctors won't even accept the insurance that Keolis offers, and one of our members died on the picket line waiting to ratify a decent contract, and Keolis has yet to make a commitment to give us a decent health care plan.

[02:23:08] The costs of the basic necessities of food and rent are skyrocketing, and we need to be able to afford suitable housing. Keolis has three sizes of buses for Loudoun County Transit. All of them require a CDL permit to operate, and Keolis is trying to divide us by the size or type of bus we operate rather than the qualifications that we all need to operate them.

[02:23:32] We want to help Loudoun County to develop, but we need to maintain our standard of living while the costs continue to rise around us. We need help with our retirement savings, not a promise that Keolis may match up to 5%. We need a defined promise that they will pay 3% of our wages into a 401k, no matter what.

[02:23:53] We also have faced an obscene amount of workplace bullying and harassment, and Keolis is trying to include in our contract extremely oppressive disciplinary policies that no union would ever accept into a contract. We have 47 unfair labor practice complaints against Keolis, and they have bribed us by offering us $2,500 to drop them all.

[02:24:17] Many of our members at the Loudoun County Transit Facility are Loudoun County residents that own homes and pay taxes to the county. Keolis is withholding taxpayer subsidy for their own need to profit. Corporate greed on the backs of taxpaying citizens is absolutely despicable.

[02:24:34] Every person in America who works full-time making others wealthy has a basic human right to be treated with dignity, respect, and be able to afford to provide for themselves and their families. We are only asking to be able to afford to survive.

[02:24:50] I am asking you now to intervene and require Keolis to give us a contract that meets the needs of basic human dignity. Find Keolis. Thank you, Ms. Banks. John Walker, followed by Shane Crow, followed by Tumay Harding.

[02:25:10] John Walker? John Walker? No? No. Okay. Shane Crow, followed by Tumay Harding, followed by, I think it's on the WebEx, Heidi Kroski.

[02:25:28] Shane Harper's not here on the Webex. Shane Harper's on the Webex. Hello. Can everyone hear me now? We can hear you. Excellent. Hello again. This is Shane Crow with Uprobe Virginia here to talk about ranked choice voting. So sorry I couldn't be in person this time. My commitments today prevented me from doing so.

[02:25:46] But I do want to give a quick rundown of the things we've been doing since the last time I talked. So since the last time, we've had a video session talking about the impact right-choice voting has on communities of color. I sent an email with a link to the YouTube video.

[02:26:02] It's an hour long, so no rush and try and watch it quite yet. But we had a panel with people such as Maria Perez of Democracy Rising. We also had Mr. Jerome Regions, who's the president of the Richmond Crusade for Voters. It was a wonderful hour-long discussion.

[02:26:20] Many great points. One that I'll summarize real quick, with Ranked Choice Voting, it gives candidates of color an opportunity to run for office without ever having to be told that they have to wait their turn in case that they may end up splitting the vote. Again, with Ranked Choice Voting, that's not the case.

[02:26:37] There are many more great points in that video seminar. Another event that we went to recently was over this past weekend. We had several members from our sister organizations as well attend the Principle First Summit in Washington, D.C. For those unfamiliar, this is a summit that is for conservatives who come to discuss and engage on conservative principles for the United States.

[02:27:02] We had members from Upvote Virginia, Fair Vote, Rank the Vote U.S., even Veterans for Political Innovation, engage and make connections with everyone there. We were welcomed. Everyone was very open to the idea of ranked-choice voting. We even had some sh** for ranked-choice voting at the summit, so that was a wonderful thing that happened.

[02:27:22] So again, we're reaching out to both liberals and conservatives as nonpartisan organizations. And one more thing I'd like to mention, which will be much closer to home, this coming Monday at 5.30 p.m., UpVote Virginia will be holding an info session at the Ashburn Library for anyone interested.

[02:27:41] So I invite not just the members of the board, but everyone else, the general public to come out. Again, that's going to be this coming Monday at 5.30 p.m. at the Ashburn Library, meeting room C. We'll be having an open discussion for anyone.

[02:27:57] So if you have any concerns or if you want to know more about how ranked choice voting works, please come out. But that's everything I have for today. I hope to see you again next time. Hello. There you go. Thank you, sir.

[02:28:13] Tumay Harding, followed by on the WebEx, Heidi Korski, followed by Lisa Saunders. No, Mr. Harding or Ms. Harding. No. Okay. Then on the WebEx, Heidi Korski, followed by Lisa Saunders, followed by Shirley Johnson.

[02:28:32] Good evening, Madam Chair and members of the board. My name is Heidi Korski, and I represent the Virginia Animal Owners Alliance. We are a statewide group that is working to promote and preserve animal ownership within the Commonwealth.

[02:28:50] Tonight, I want to speak to the exotic animal ban, and I would just ask that you please consider how this will be enforced if passed. People keep referring to the grandfather clause, but citizens have not been given a clear set of standards in regards to what will be required of them in order to keep their pet.

[02:29:10] In other words, they do not know how to comply. Instead, the subjective opinion of the animal control officer is all that will be used to separate people from their animals. The current wording does not allow an ability to cure. These heavy-handed actions will result in the increased euthanasia of pets and true heartbreak for Loudoun County citizens.

[02:29:32] Before you vote, please compare the proposed ordinance to the Loudoun County Animal Services five-year strategic plan that was published in December 2022. If you look at page six under goal three, it talks about recognizing the value of diversity and inclusion.

[02:29:49] this proposed band is the exact opposite the plan also states more than 70 percent of households in the united states own a pet supporting a humane community means recognizing that many pet owners have different backgrounds cultures needs and experiences it talks about providing a good pet owner academy and how they want to improve return to owner initiatives so we're just asking these are things and exotic animal owners deserve no less. Please choose to take a humane approach to this issue, not only for local pets, but for the people who love them. We ask you to reject this

[02:30:29] ordinance as written and instead work with local citizens to preserve a pathway for ownership in Loudoun County, Virginia. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Lisa Saunders, followed by Shirley Johnson, followed again on the web back by Buddy Waske. Good evening. Hi there. How are you? Good.

[02:30:49] So I just wanted to say that we were told tonight that you're going to get the company and, you know, Keolis and the ATU to come together and to try to work out some sort of agreement, because it's been since January, which is a good thing.

[02:31:12] We really appreciate that, any help that you can do. However, it's keeping them in there. it's keeping them uh focused it's keeping them uh to to bargain in good faith um that's a problem that we've been having uh we just recently received yet another offer it used to be a seven point offer now it's only four so they're removing things um and at the bottom it said you know was telling us drivers you either take this last and final offer or you can go and find another

[02:31:48] job. Well, guess what? That's what we're going to do before we go back in there. We've already lost five. They've already applying to other companies. So you've got a bus service. You're not going to have any drivers. Before I came out, the general manager, Al Hampton, told me they were 40 down, 40 drivers down before we went on strike. And so 40 down, there's 80 of us out. And we've got our people are going out and they're applying for other job positions and they're hiring people off

[02:32:28] the streets, you're going to have all kinds of issues. You're going to have accidents. You're going to have complaints because they're not experienced CDL drivers. So I just want to let you know that you're going to have a company, you know, Loudoun County, you know, Department of Transportation with no drivers. And that's going to be a huge problem for you. I know that you're already having complaints. I'm one of the teams that go out and I give out flyers. I talk to the public. I'm fair when I talk to the public. I tell the truth. And at this point, we've had a

[02:33:05] couple of people, maybe quite a few of the fire people, that the public wants the board to fire them, fire Keolis. So we are actually getting signs, you know, fire Keolis. You know, it used to be fine, but it's like we're going past that point now. So anyways, thank you. Thank you.

[02:33:29] shirley johnson followed by buddy waski followed by kevin um robie robio good evening good evening um good evening madam chair and board members my name is shirley johnson i'm the director at leesburg animal park and i first of all just want to say that when the group does come from uruguay uh the sister city they're welcome to come out to the park we have a fall festival called Pumpkin Village. You all may have been there, and I'd love to have you all as our guests there.

[02:34:05] That said, I'd like to ask that you all not go forward with the exotic animal ban. I feel it's too broad, as I've stated in some of my letters. Specifically, I think the one statement where it talks about wild animals that are found in the wild would be banned. So I just ask that we bring some stakeholders together, talk about it some more before we move forward with any decisions.

[02:34:36] Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Buddy Waskey, followed by Kevin Robioi, followed by, on the WebEx, Adrian Mock.

[02:34:56] I think that was the next one. Yeah, that was right. Yes. Yes, I'm Buddy Waskey. I'm representing the American Federation of Agriculture and our Legislative Specialist, and I wanted to speak on the new animal order.

[02:35:16] This ordinance is trying to ban a lot of exotics, and the original problem was crocodilians, which the state regulates, and snakes, and I recommend to y'all that y'all look at Dinwiddie County's ordinance.

[02:35:37] They tried to put in a very similar ordinance this year, and they opted to just prohibit venomous snakes and constrictors over six feet. Also, I'll let you all know that we have a white list here of animals that can be kept legally.

[02:35:59] Hamsters are not on there. If this goes through as it's written, families won't be able to have hamsters, and hamsters are first pets for a lot of children. So I challenge y'all to re-look at this and table it and go back and try to take care of the original problem, which my understanding was a crocodile and a caiman and some venomous snakes, and try to address that.

[02:36:34] and not these other animals that are controlled by USDA. They're controlled by some of them by U.S. Fish and Wildlife. And the state of Virginia has restrictions and prohibitions on them too. Appreciate your time. Thank you.

[02:36:53] Where's my mic keep going? It's back on. Okay. Oh, it gives them feedback if you want to turn it up. Okay, that's fine. I just don't know. I just don't know what was happening. Kevin Royboyo, followed by, on the WebEx, Adrienne Mock, followed by Tom Marshall.

[02:37:18] Good evening, young man. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Ken Robayo. I'm here to talk about an issue that happened at a construction site in a dead-end center here in Loudoun County. 56 workers, counting myself, were fired because they speak up because they weren't paid for two weeks, even four or five weeks.

[02:37:37] And once they speak up, they decided to just fire them all instead of just getting to a solution or anything. or some of them were given the option to work as a subcontractor for two weeks so they could get just two paychecks just to get some of that money but not all the money.

[02:37:54] And it was either accept the fact of being a subcontractor, like to be hired as a subcontractor, or just leave and don't get anything. And there was no heads up or anything, just fire you. You had to give your badge. If you don't give your badge, they don't give you the last check.

[02:38:13] And it's just an issue now because London County became, like, a big area of data centers and all this stuff. So I would like if we could go more into it and, like, kind of get something so workers are protected for this kind of stuff. Yeah.

[02:38:29] Thank you. Matt, will you make that connection for me? Thank you. Kevin Mark followed by Tom Marshall followed by on the WebEx. Excuse me. Abbott Hoffman. Amanda, would it be better if I just turned it off myself when we get to those Webex calls?

[02:38:50] Okay, I'd be happy to do that. All right. Good evening. I'm the legislative vice president for the American Federation of Agriculture and take a deep interest in exotic regulations and legislation. This proposal that you've come up with is far too overbearing and a big piece of overreach.

[02:39:11] I suggest you go back and look at the species, talk to the people that are invested in this. U.S. ARC has great information on handling, caring for, and keeping venomous reptiles. Many animal handlers keep these successfully and safely.

[02:39:27] Instead of an all-out ban, I recommend permitting and licensing. That way first responders are safe should they have venomous. Most of the animals on your list are not harmful to humans. Spiders are popular pets, tarantulas, for example.

[02:39:43] They even take them into classrooms and let the kids see them and touch them. so they're not medically significant the ones that are generally are not handled by the public and the only people that are in danger from these animals are the owners themselves very few bites from venomous reptiles occur in this country if you're concerned about genetic diseases look to dogs and cats rabies toxoplasmosis and other diseases if you're concerned about animals that cause harm injury or death to humans look to livestock over 200 injuries and deaths a year

[02:40:18] from cows and horses, so there are much dangerous animals that we commonly keep than exotic animals. I suggest a licensing procedure. Contact USR, United States Association of Reptile Keepers, and others who work with these animals on a regular basis.

[02:40:35] Thank you. Thank you. My next speaker is Tom Marshall, and then the next three speakers are all on the WebEx, and they are Abbott Hoffman, John Dunbar, and Susan Wilson. Good evening, Mr. Marshall.

[02:40:52] Thank you, Madam Chairman. As a former president and a life member of the American Federation of AvaCulture, I'm speaking for the organization as well as myself. As you see, I'm an aviculturist, a person who keeps and breeds non-native or exotic birds, such as parrots, for my personal enjoyment and as a hobby.

[02:41:12] And I also provide sometimes pets for people, and these pets of birds are oftentimes long-lived pets, longer than most cats and dogs. The mission and purpose of the American Federation of AvaCulture is to promote the advancement of AvaCulture through educational programs that enable better husbandry, management, and living conditions for exotic birds and promote avian research and conservation of exotic birds.

[02:41:37] And also to keep our members aware of legislative issues that affect AvaCulture and AvaCultures and keep legislators aware of the need for fair and equitable regulations. The goal of AFA is to ensure long-term, self-sustaining exotic birds and captivity.

[02:41:54] Please, when you write these regulations, watch how you use terms such as animals, exotics, and vertebrates, all of which can describe birds. If you're concerned about dangerous animals, venomous snakes, and reptiles, say so. Be specific.

[02:42:10] The implementation of any policies you adopt will be a hard step of implementing them, and they need to know what you mean by the terms you use. Don't be vague. The issue that we're doing today started all of this by an individual who's keeping species of reptiles that are already illegal to own without permits from the Commonwealth of Virginia.

[02:42:33] A regulation ban would have made no difference. The Commonwealth already has regulations in place for ownership, permits, keeps various species of exotic animals. So why is Loudoun County Board of Supervisors wanting to use taxpayer dollars to reinvent the wheel? May I suggest that instead of banning species in the county, simply add Loudoun County regulations for nonspecific exotic species will follow the regulations set forth by the Commonwealth of Virginia, simply short and to the point.

[02:43:04] My suggestion is to address any known problem without creating a bureaucracy hoping to find a problem to justify its creation. I am suspect of humane societies involved in promoting this idea. So I appreciate your attention, and I know you'll do the right thing because you're awful smart people.

[02:43:23] Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Marshall. Abbott Hoffman, followed by John Dunbar, followed by Susan Wilson. Good afternoon, gentlemen of the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors. My name is Abbott Hoffman.

[02:43:40] I am retired Army Sergeant, State Coordinator for the American Federation of Agriculture, and Vice President of Central Virginia Bird Club. I'm calling tonight to ask you to oppose the addition to Chapter 612, which is a plan that is not necessary.

[02:43:55] There are already state and federal prohibitions and restrictions already in place. Nearly all animals you are defining as exotic. The original concerns were crocodilians and venomous snakes. The Commonwealth of Virginia already prohibits crocodilians.

[02:44:13] I recommend a simple ordinance such as Dinwiddie County banning venomous snakes. Putting in place these bans don't just affect the people of your county or yourself, but it also affects businesses in your area and the surrounding areas and statewide.

[02:44:30] Thank you for your time, and please use this ban. Thank you, Mr. Hoffman. John Dunbar, followed by Susan Wilson. Both of those are on the WebEx, followed by Robert Griffin, who's, I believe, in person.

[02:44:49] This is John Dunbar, and I'm speaking to the ordinance to private ownership of certain exotic animals. There is really no more that I can add to what has been so eloquently spoken to by the aviculturists who have spoken before me.

[02:45:12] What I suggest is that this is the reverse of gilding the lily. There are already structures in place to deal with exotic animals, and what is not to be legislated is actually having people be responsible for the animals they have.

[02:45:44] There are always and always will be abusers of one sort or another, and so the legislation is really going to deal with a very, very fractionally infinitesimal piece of the population.

[02:46:10] And so, as with the others, I request that this be sent back to committee, back to the table for rethinking and sharpening of the edge that you're trying to cut with.

[02:46:26] Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Susan Wilson, followed by Robert Griffin, followed by Sophia de la Torra. Hello.

[02:46:42] This is Susan Wilson. I am the, gosh, I hear a massive echo. Okay, that's better. I'm a resident of Leesburg, and I have been a very happy commuter bus rider since we moved here in 2018.

[02:47:05] Even during the pandemic, once the buses started running again, I was going into the office as much as possible. I'm no longer a happy bus rider. My commute this morning was three hours.

[02:47:21] My commute this afternoon was the regular two. My commute has doubled. Now, frankly, the bus, the great commuter bus system, the public transportation was one of our main reasons for choosing Loudoun County when we moved back home from overseas.

[02:47:42] My husband and I are from Richmond. We're born and bred. We love Virginia. But we had all sorts of options. Now, I have gotten the response multiple times to my phone calls and emails that this is an issue between QLIS and the union.

[02:48:01] Now, a quick Google search for QLIS shows that this is their modus operandi. This is what they do. They live all a contract, and then they nickel and dime the people actually doing the work to squeeze the money out of somewhere. But the fact of the matter is that commuter bus riders, we take our tax dollars, we are promised a service that is not there.

[02:48:29] And my feeling is whatever the Board of Supervisors can do to resolve this situation and get the buses back running will be absolutely key. I don't have work-life balance anymore. Most of my day is commuting.

[02:48:47] The ridership was rebounding. We had full buses with standing room only, and most of us agreed that we needed more services, not less. We need our buses back. Our bus drivers work hard and do amazing work piloting those big monster machines through D.C. traffic.

[02:49:09] Please, we need our buses back. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Robert Griffin, followed by Sofia De La Torre, followed by, gosh, I am so sorry if I do not pronounce your name right. Beth, I think it's Honol Sarkis. I'm not sure. You have to correct me. I apologize. Mr. Griffin.

[02:49:35] Thank you, Chairman. I heard many people speak tonight about the lack of having no ability to really control their future. They're out of a job. They're on strike. And I submit that the solution, the only solution that they will have, that I will have, is to stop voting for Democrats.

[02:50:02] Stop voting for Democrats. Look at Joe Biden. Thank you, Mr. Turner. You helped get him there. Joe Biden, inflation, billions of dollars to the Ukraine, open borders, but nothing, nothing for our people in Loudoun County. You people, you Democrats control that purse string. Nothing.

[02:50:27] You put on a smiley face for the Democrat policies of disaster, a real smiley face. And you would erase, erase history, not rewrite it. That fine statue that was down here on our courthouse several years ago, well, that represented the tragedy, the cost of the Civil War, of any war.

[02:50:54] But you people said, oh, no, that's the symbol of racism lording over you all. That's crap. It tweaked your conscience, I think. It represented the people that would like to remember the cost of war, whether they were Confederates or Union, the terrible costs of war, just like in the Ukraine, the policies of the Democrat Party, erasing our history,

[02:51:31] thinking you're all good people. No, you are not. And Mr. Turner, for instance, when he was first elected, he ran on the policy of impeach Trump before there was even an investigation. And that issue has still divided our country. It divides us now. Why are you smiling, Mr. Turner? And Miss Brisbane, you ran on a middle finger of ignorance and hate for the truth. And if you think about our Constitution, Mr. Turner, you didn't learn that at all in our schools. Stop voting for Democrats.

[02:52:11] Thank you, Mr. Breffing. Our next speaker is Sofia De La Torre, followed by Beth, who is going to tell me how to correctly say her last name, and I am sorry, and then we're going to go back to May Harding, who has come in the room. Good evening.

[02:52:30] Hey there. Thank you for having me today. My name is Sofia De La Torre, and I'm the Government Affairs Director for the Dulles Area Association of Realtors. I'm here today to speak regarding the occupancy terms for short-term rentals. This association believes the policy will hinder both individuals in Loudoun County and the county itself.

[02:52:50] Currently, the occupancy terms include living in the property as your main homestead for 180 days annually. This policy would degrade the constitutional rights of landlords in Loudoun County. The association firmly believes that it is not the place of the Board of Supervisors to infringe upon personal property rights.

[02:53:08] This policy will also severely impact the western part of the county, where there are no lodging accommodations. The western part of the county relies heavily on short-term rentals for tourism. This will impact the smaller towns and areas which benefit significantly for tourism and encourage tax revenue.

[02:53:26] There are also safety risks associated with managing occupancy. The western part of the county has a successful brewery, winery, and wedding tourism industry. Without safe accommodations in the western part of the county, it is likely to encourage driving to accommodations in the eastern region while visitors are intoxicated.

[02:53:45] This poses a safety risk for all residents of Loudoun County and places a cumbersome responsibility on the already limited resources of the sheriff's office. Lastly, short-term rentals are a safe haven for emergency housing situations in the county. If the county seeks diversity and inclusion, this legislation undermines that narrative.

[02:54:05] The county's recommendation for a third-party monitoring system is a gross mismanagement of taxpayer dollars and an encouragement to infringe on personal property rights and privacy rights. I urge this board to consider removing the occupancy restrictions and third-party monitoring system to enforce these restrictions.

[02:54:23] Thank you. Thank you, Ms. De La Torre. And I'm sorry, I just covered, excuse me. I'm so sorry to call you about your first name, because that's just rude. But if you'd pronounce your last name for me, that'd be great. And you were followed by Tumay Harding. That's quite all right.

[02:54:39] It's Beth Huncharski. Say it one more time. Huncharski. Huncharski? Mm-hmm. Okay, got that. Thank you. Good evening. Thank you very much. At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'd like to address the proposed ban on wild and exotic animals. First, I'd like to say that I can understand and appreciate the intention behind the law.

[02:54:57] Of course, it's important to protect our first responders and should not put them at unnecessary risk. My contention with this law, however, is that the species list is overly broad, specifically referring to the inclusion of wolf dogs and canine hybrids. Others have spoken earlier tonight and in previous meetings to the temperament of these dogs and how the law is unnecessary based on that.

[02:55:18] So I'm going to focus my argument tonight about the enforceability of this law. While it may be very easy to visually identify an alligator, a tiger, or a monkey, identifying a wolf dog based on visible traits alone is simply not possible. Many dogs look like wolves without any recent wolf DNA.

[02:55:34] Dogs with wolf DNA don't always share the pointy ears and fluffy coat that we associate with wolves. The only way to truly identify a wolf dog or a canine hybrid is through DNA testing, which can be a long, costly process funded by taxpayers that is fraught with potential problems. I would propose a hypothetical situation.

[02:55:52] Hypothetically, after this law has been passed, I adopt a mixed-breed dog from a local rescue. That dog would not be subject to a grandfather clause, regardless of its genetics, as it's a new acquisition. Hypothetically, a neighbor would report that dog as a possible wolf hybrid, given its characteristics and looking like a wolf.

[02:56:13] I would ask the Loudoun County Animal Services how they would enforce the law. Would they seize my dog on the suspicion of it being a wolf hybrid? Would they detain him for 30 days or more until a DNA test could be conducted? Would one DNA test be sufficient, or would we conduct multiple tests because these are fraught with problems?

[02:56:34] I would be concerned about the accuracy of those tests. Let's say this rescue dog, whose genetics I wasn't aware of when I adopted him, came back with a small percentage of wolf dog. That's 1%, 5%, 20%. What is the threshold for enforcing this law? If he came back higher than said threshold, which hasn't been defined, would he be euthanized?

[02:56:55] would I be able to appeal that decision based on the character of the dog. I would ask this board to rethink the law and at the very least remove any mention of wolf-dogs or canine hybrids from the law as trying to enforce this based on visible traits is unrealistic for our animal services.

[02:57:15] Thank you very much. Thank you. And the last speaker is Tumai Harding. Good evening, ma'am. Loudon Board of Supervisors, my name is Tumai Harding, and I stand before you today to help you answer the most asked question you have to deal with.

[02:57:38] The one question your friends, family, neighbors consistently bring up, what is going on with LCPS? I'm well aware that there is very little that this board can do about LCPS, but you deserve to know what is happening. Your friends, family, and neighbors deserve a better answer than, I don't really know, it's out of my hands.

[02:57:57] My family, my daughter, and her friends spent the past year confronting the allegedly new and improved Title IX office. We were the first case the new office had to address since the well-publicized rapes at Stonebridge and Broad Run. Think of us as the guinea pigs. We battled a hostile group determined to protect LCPS at all costs in the face of credible accusations of sexual harassment and sexual assault by a teacher.

[02:58:20] Over several months, we dealt with a Title IX office functioning much like a corrupt insurance company that denies all claims. Our daughters went through a flawed and inequitable process that grossly favored the victimizer, and during that process, we sadly discovered another, more severe victim of the same teacher from 2020.

[02:58:41] We dealt with an investigator that treated the teenage victims like the enemy, like hostile witnesses, like being touched and groped and the object crude comments was their fault. This is your new and improved Title IX office. Is it any surprise LCPS has chosen to hide the latest investigative report?

[02:59:01] Supervisor Turner generously spent an hour with me and my husband to hear our story firsthand to try and understand what's really gone, going on at LCPS. Thank you, sir. I'm here to make a simple offer to each of you. Sit down with me, hear my daughter's story, learn firsthand what my family has had to deal with, how LCPS has once again failed our children and places LCPS ahead of the students, ahead of real victims.

[02:59:29] You may not be able to do much about it, but you can at least learn firsthand what's happening with the school system you fund. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Harding. Thank you very much for coming in. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you. All right, supervisors, that is all of our speakers for this evening, and we thank all of you for coming in.

[02:59:52] Mr. Sains says it all the time. You could have been anywhere today, but you chose to be with us. Thank you. We will take up the item right now, the exotic animal item. This is why I took this item off consent. As you see, we had a lot of speakers on this item, and so I did not want to leave the item on consent knowing that we had that many speakers.

[03:00:14] No matter where this vote turns out, I thought everyone should have a chance to be heard this evening. So thank you for coming in. We appreciate it. We know the issue. Do you have anything you'd like to add that hasn't been said before?

[03:00:33] Yes, thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. The only things we'd like to add would be to address a couple of the comments that were brought up this evening, one being regarding hamsters. Hamsters are already considered companion animals and defined in both state and local code as companion animals. So there would not be a risk to hamsters or other already defined companion animals with this amendment.

[03:00:54] The other being the question of whether or not there is a need for this because state language already exists with some level of restriction. We just want to be clear that state code does not allow enforcement without local interaction or local action regarding venomous snakes and, in particular, non-human primates.

[03:01:14] So those are two animals that we specifically want to make sure are included in this because there is no legislation at the state level that restricts ownership of those. So while some of the speakers brought up the question of the crocodilians, Yes, those are regulated by the state at this time. However, what we're really looking to do is address the animals that are not already restricted or regulated by the state, such as, you know, as we saw in that recent case, gaboon vipers, spitting cobras, any non-human primates or other exotic animals.

[03:01:45] Thank you. All right, having heard this motion, I mean, this item any time, I'm going to go straight to a motion and we can have discussion within the motion. I move the Board of Supervisors to approve the proposed amendments to Chapter 612 of the codified ordinance of Loudoun County dogs and other animals is outlined in attachment one the March 7, 2023 Board of Supervisors business meeting action item. Motions made in second. All right so a couple of things. One I have taken this issue very seriously and done a lot of research and I called Ms. Wynn last night. I especially did just hours of research including making phone

[03:02:23] calls on the wolf dog issue i literally was asking questions like is there ever a time when you think a wolf dog should be owned by a by a person just trying to find somebody even the wolf dog sanctuary to say that wolf dogs are okay to be in in private homes i could not find one piece of material and one person even the wolf dog sanctuary that was saying that to me every piece of material said wolf dogs are are basically wild animals and while they did say that they can that they can

[03:02:59] bond with a human being because all animals can they also said that they could be that that they because that they of their wild nature they can turn at any time or in protection of that human being really be of harm to somebody else Mrs. Wynn and her story last time really touched me So I actually called her yesterday before we got in the day as today, but having done a very ample amount of research and made phone calls, I have come to believe that Wolf Dog should not be owned.

[03:03:35] Not only do I not believe this is too broad, I think it's actually not broad enough, and I would speak specifically to the primate issue. Now, I don't even know if we have that issue in Loudoun County, but let me say this. If you have a monkey and you have a large piece of land and places for him to be, okay, all right.

[03:03:56] I don't think we should have monkeys, but I can understand the grandfathering of that primate. But you are actually saying if somebody moves to a small apartment, they can take their monkey with them, and that there's no limit on the monkeys that can go to a small apartment.

[03:04:12] That doesn't make any sense to me at all. There are some animals that do not belong in closed settings. I can't think of another, well, I can think of lots of animals, but a monkey is definitely an animal that needs to have an open setting. I have taken this very seriously because people's animals are their family.

[03:04:28] I grew up having dogs, and I think people's animals are their families. And so I do not take this lightly at all. I take people's, their ownership of their, what we call fur babies and other animals very seriously. So I went through all of these things and researched them.

[03:04:46] This is not too broad. It's just not. And I say this all the time, I'm not an expert in this. Our animal services departments are experts in this. They don't take this lightly. They love animals, and they want people to own animals.

[03:05:01] And so having done my research, if anything, I would add amendments to limit the primate issue, because I think that is way too broad. But I am absolutely, I believe that this is the right thing to do. So thank you. Mr. Kirshner.

[03:05:17] Thank you, Madam Chair. I think, given my previous comments, it's no surprise that I'm not persuaded that this is the right piece or right ordinance to be passing at this time, because I do think it is far too broad. And the problem is, you know, we can have reasonable debates on what's proper and what's not.

[03:05:34] Obviously, I don't want to mess with venomous animals in any way, but I am somewhat sympathetic to those, some of the things that were said here. I also appreciate what animal control has had to say, and we don't want to be going into these houses and trying to deal with this.

[03:05:49] So I don't know where exactly the right balance is. And that's really, I think, what becomes tough. I think the one thing that was brought up when we went through this in public hearing and spoke about it was, well, a lot of these animals are already banned by state law, but we don't have the ability to really do anything about it. And I think that was part of the item as well. And I think, quite frankly, the simple solution to that is just pass an ordinance that allows you to do it. And we don't have that.

[03:06:14] And I think you're saying, yeah, we need at least that. And by the way, there was a couple other animals that are not included in a state law that we would like to see. So I think that is, quite frankly, the better way to go, because I think, as we heard from a number of the people here tonight, we are encompassing, I think, beyond what we really realize in this particular ordinance.

[03:06:32] And I think we could simply make a change, and I don't know if anyone's interested in doing this. We could probably make this simpler and protect some of the interests of animal control, ensure that they can take action based upon state law for specific animals.

[03:06:48] I mean, it would be a very simple ordinance, and that way that law may change. And the other problem with this is we're going to have to go in and perhaps, I mean, I know it has a catch-all phrase within there, but that's also a little bit subject to interpretation. So there's a lot of concerns that I have within this particular statute.

[03:07:06] The other thing I'm concerned is, I mean, I think a lot of the concerns could also be by people's, if you're going to have some of these animals that are perhaps frowned down, you have, you know, either you register it, not just historically or not just in a grandfather clause, but, you know, hey, that way animal control knows when they're going to a house, they're registered.

[03:07:26] I find it also interesting that when people want to break the law, they're going to have these animals anyway, and I think actually knowing about them rather than walking into a situation where you don't know about them might be a little bit better. So I'm not going to vote yes on this. I'm actually going to vote no. I have received a lot of email in my office, practically all against this particular ordinance for a number of the reasons, as were mentioned tonight.

[03:07:49] In addition, I do appreciate what animal control is trying to do, and that is, hey, we want to make sure our animal control officers from going into a situation are protected. I just personally am not persuaded that passing a fairly broad ordinance is the right way to do it. I think we should give you the right to enforce state law and maybe look very specifically a couple other types of animals that would allow you to do it.

[03:08:11] I just think we're going to cap, we're going to run into more problems than we are solutions. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Ms. Umset. Thank you, Madam Chair. And the last time this was before us, I expressed concerns about the broadness of the term hybrid canine.

[03:08:28] I still have those concerns. I will probably end up having to vote against this tonight because we're not addressing that particular concern. As I know you guys know, there are high-content wolf dogs and low-content wolf dogs.

[03:08:43] This ordinance would throw them all in together. And a low-content wolf dog is probably absolutely identical. to a German Shepherd or a Husky or a Malamute. And I don't know who gets to decide whether you get to grab the dog and then the owner has to fight like the Dickens to prove that this is not a canine hybrid.

[03:09:17] I absolutely agree with you on the reptiles, the venomous creatures, that whole part of it. I have neighbors who feed peanuts to squirrels and consider them to be pets, and they love their squirrels, but this would deny them that pleasure.

[03:09:40] So I would love to support an amendment to this that would remove a hybrid canine and just ban the wolf and the other creatures. But the easiest thing for me is just going to be voting no, so I'm sorry I have to.

[03:10:01] Thank you. I think Mr. Buffington, you were next. Thank you, Madam Chair. I trust the judgment of our Animal Services Department. I appreciate what you all do. I also appreciate the comments from the public, but I'm going to support this. One thing I heard from the public was a question around trying to get a little bit more clarity on the grandfather clause.

[03:10:23] Could you speak a little bit on that so we have something on the record? Yeah, so the way that it's written is the grandfather clause would allow anybody who has one of the animals it's proposed to be banned in their possession at the time of the passage of this ordinance to retain ownership of that animal for the rest of its natural life. They could not re-home it unless it was to an appropriate sanctuary or rescue or zoo, something of that sort, but they could not re-home it to another private citizen within Loudoun County, so the re-homing would have to be lawful, and they would otherwise just register with the Department of Animal Services. We would load that information into the system, which would allow other first responders to be able to see

[03:11:02] where those animals are in premises and that also per guidance of the board would include inspection of the premises in which the animal is contained to ensure that the containment is appropriate and able to adequately confine the animal one of the situations we saw again with the situation we were discussing is that individual would allow his cobra in particular to to roam in his yard which does not allow for any sort of ability to confine that animal so it would ensure that we We are advising that individual of what confinement entails to make sure that they are keeping that animal, but also keeping it safe and keeping the public safe as well.

[03:11:39] And other than reading any newspaper articles or something like that on this, how will these folks who have these animals be notified that there is an opportunity to register their animal? Yes, so we'll make sure that information is put out through all the normal county channels. So, of course, we'll be going through county website media releases, but we're also going to be working with all the veterinarians in the area and also exotic veterinarians beyond the immediate area who are those who are most typically engaging with owners of these species to ensure the word gets out.

[03:12:09] Thanks. Ms. Glass? Thank you, Madam Chair. The emails that I've received from most of my constituents, they are for this motion.

[03:12:26] So when you talk about wild and exotic animals, I believe Mr. Marshall was saying that he raises, I think it was exotic birds. We're not talking about any type of birds that we would be prohibiting.

[03:12:44] I guess I would assume that the state already has birds that we aren't allowed to have in the state. There are some very limited birds that the state regulates, but otherwise birds are exempted and called out as an exemption in terms of domestically bred or legally imported birds.

[03:13:01] And rat types, which are ostriches and emus, those are agricultural type birds. Those would already be excluded as well as other typical agricultural birds, you know, turkeys, chickens, things like that. So there's no explanation which we could think of which a legally owned bird would be an issue of any kind.

[03:13:18] Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Mr. Turner. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think this motion has gone for it probably more than anything else, the fact that the Director of Animal Services and Animal Services wants this motion.

[03:13:35] That office has, I have enormous respect for all of you over there. I think you do a terrific job. So at the risk of alienating the venomous snake and spider lobby in Loudoun County, I'm going to vote for this motion. Thank you. Thank you. So, Mr. Kirshner, this idea of, you know, if people will break the law anyway, if they make the law, they're going to break it anyway, taking that to this logic conclusion, why ever have a law about anything? People can break, I mean, why ever have a law about anything?

[03:14:05] Why have laws if we're just going to say, well, and somebody's going to break them? that's not a reason to do that. And with due respect, loving an animal does not mean the animal's not wild. It just doesn't. Squirrels are wild animals, and they can be dangerous.

[03:14:25] Raccoons are wild animals, and they can be dangerous. Because you love something, and because you feed it, it doesn't make it mean it's not wild. It doesn't mean it can't hurt you. It doesn't mean it doesn't carry diseases. Those things don't make things exempt because you love it um so you know my question to i have to ask myself as i was i was going through because again i took this very seriously was if someone gets hurt from an animal that we could have said no to whether somebody breaks the law but if if we say if we don't do this somebody gets hurt how am i living with myself our animal service experts are telling us that there are some animals that should

[03:15:05] not be owned in Loudoun County and they're going even further and saying and if you own them now we're grandfathering them in to the rest of their that animal's natural life which listen for some of these animals I wouldn't even do that to be quite honest I say this all the time I say this all the time the nine of us who sit in this dais are very smart people we are smart we are committed people but we are not the smartest people about every single issue we don't know everything about everything. And we have people who went to school and have dedicated their whole life

[03:15:40] to animals. And they are telling us that there are some animals that probably shouldn't be owned by people in Loudon County. And we've expanded this to mean all kinds of things. Mr. Marshall, who I like very much, keeps coming in talking about his birds. Not one of his birds will fall under this thing. Not one. I've seen his birds. I've been to his house. He has parakeets and parrots and cockatails I have a cockatail and two parakeets not one of his birds would be taken so people are kind of kind of throwing everything into this that you don't need to do that but there are some animals

[03:16:15] that we should we should ban and and if you all find out that you need to put out more information the people are not clear I I trust that you do that I you've had you've you've had one or two town halls i trust that you do you do that you talk to people you walk them through it i trust that you do all that but at at this point i couldn't live with myself as some if some if someone got hurt you know what they would say to me they would say chair rando you have blood in your hands that's what people would say to me if something happens i'm voting i'm supporting the

[03:16:53] staff and voting for this all right motion was made by me i think it was seconded by mr who seconded this? Ms. Eternal, you seconded this, right? Or Ms. Briggs? Who seconded this? Ms. Briggsman, you seconded this? Okay. Okay. Somebody seconded it. I'm going to give it to Ms. Briggsman if it wasn't. I'm going to give it to Ms. Briggsman. Okay. All the people who say aye. Aye. Opposed?

[03:17:15] That motion will pass. I think that was 8-2-7-2. Who would have? 7-2 with Ms. Umstead, Kirshner, and, oh, 7-2, Kirshner, and Umstead. Okay. Opposed. We, thank you very much.

[03:17:36] thank you very much we are going to take a break before we read into the closed session because what well we have two closed sessions so let's take let's let's take i i just said that we're

[03:17:50] going to take a 10 minute break before we go to the closed session back in and mr saines is going

[03:31:51] to read us into both of our closed sessions please all right closed session number three i move that the board of supervisors recess this public meeting enter the closed session pursuant to Section 2.2-3711A8 and A29 of the Code of Virginia to consult with legal counsel pertaining to a contract interpretation and negotiation possible amendments to a public contract where negotiations in open session would adversely affect the bargaining position of the county.

[03:32:17] Closed session number four, move that the Board of Supervisors recessed this public meeting and entered the closed session pursuant to Section 2.2-3711A7 and A8 of the Code of Virginia to consult with legal counsel regarding legal advice and actual litigation regarding land use. Motion made and seconded by Supervisor Brixman.

[03:32:35] Discussion on the motion. The only discussion I have is normally this is when we tell all of our staff that you can go in and go home, but clearly they don't need to be told that right now. They are out. That's all we need. Jeez, gracious.

[03:32:52] All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? We are in closed session.

[04:57:31] Absolutely. Not even that long. Mr. Sains, will you please read us out of closed session? I move that the closed session be adjourned, that the Board of Supervisors reconvene its public meeting, that the minutes of the public meeting should reflect that no formal action was taken in closed session, and further move that the resolution certifying the closed session be adopted and reflected in the minutes of this public meeting.

[04:57:51] Motion is made and seconded by Ms. Bricksman. Discussion on the motion, will everyone please affirm. Mr. Letourneau. Affirm. Affirmed. And I affirm as well. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

[04:58:07] That motion will pass 9-0. I did have one point of information I forgot to tell you guys. On Thursday, if I do not go to the MBTA meeting, then MBTA will not have a quorum. And I could send the alternate, which is Mr. Turner, but I'm the chair of MBTA, and we're being presented with the budget and a whole lot of other things.

[04:58:33] So, very, very, very regretfully, I am going to hand the gavel for Thursday's meeting to Mr. Sainz, but I will be back for the next meeting, which is on Monday? Monday. Monday. Okay, thank you. Yeah, I was going to say you need to officially cancel.

[04:58:52] I will. Oh, I can do that on Thursday. You can do that. Mr. Sainz, that's up to Mr. Sainz tomorrow. He can do whatever he wants to do. Mr. Sainz is running things on Thursday. On Thursday. Only Julie has to attend. He may make you all come in there, whatever. I'm in Saturday. that's up to him because I've missed a couple all right I think that's all we are adjourned

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