Coraggio Consulting
Loudoun County Board of Supervisors, Business Meeting, Tuesday, June 20, 2023

Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2023
Place: Board Room, First Floor, Government Center, 1 Harrison Street SE, Leesburg, Virginia
Length: 4h 15m (video)
Official meeting video (county, Granicus): https://loudoun.granicus.com/player/clip/7321
Agenda (Granicus): https://loudoun.granicus.com/AgendaViewer.php?view_id=73&clip_id=7321

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-20. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:05:15] Wonderful. Well, good evening supervisors, good evening staff, good evening Loudon. I'd like to call the June 20th, 2023 Board of Supervisors Business Meeting to order. This room has a hearing loop. If you need hearing assistance, switch your hearing aid to the telecall mode. If you need a headset, we have those available as well. Please see the clerk to request one. This evening, Ms.

[00:05:41] Bricksman will give us words of wisdom and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Ms. Bricksman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yesterday, I had the opportunity to meet one Josie Stewart. She was the first African-American assistant principal and the first African-American principal in the upper schools of Loudoun County, Douglas and Seneca Ridge, respectively.

[00:06:03] She spoke at the Juneteenth event and shared a bit about her struggles to be treated equally in school systems across the country as she was a trailing military spouse. She even once had to file a discrimination suit in Colorado Springs with the NAACP, which she won.

[00:06:20] Her words about teaching true history yesterday on Juneteenth really resonated, and I will paraphrase here what she said. She said, we are no longer enslaved by chains, but we risk being enslaved by ignorance. Let's say the pledge. Of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[00:06:55] Okay, we have kind of a long consent agenda, so here we go. And if I say something I shouldn't say, somebody raise your hand. If I don't say something that I should say, somebody raise your hand, because we've had a few changes. Item R1, proclamation to recognize June 2023 as Home Ownership Month.

[00:07:14] That is approval only. Item R2, Proclamation 2, Recognize July as Parks and Rec Month. That is approval only. Item R3, Proclamation Resolution to Recognize Jordan, Texia, 2023 Distinguished Trauma Certified Registered Nurse Award. That is for approval only.

[00:07:34] For all three of these, especially for that last one, I will let you know where that would be presented. That last one, this was an award that she received nationwide. She's a Trauma Nurse, Certified Registered Nurse of the Year in the entire country, not just the state of Virginia.

[00:07:55] And so if you'd like to go with me to present any of these resolutions, let me know. We can put it on the calendar, and I bet they would like to have more than two supervisors join them. The next three are all Eagle Scouts.

[00:08:12] Resolution of Accommodation for Eagle Scout Alp Shea, Eagle Scout Rowan Konowski, and Eagle Scout Bede Pondy. And I do believe, Mr. Letourneau, they're going to all come up at one time, if I'm not mistaken. Okay, wonderful. Item 1A, Apartments and Confirmations.

[00:08:30] Item two, administrative items report of June 20th, 2023. Item four, realign boundaries of precinct 713 Carter and 714 Rock Ridge to eliminate a split precinct. Item five, relocation of the Middleburg polling place.

[00:08:47] Item six, award authority increased information technology professional service. Item seven, award authority increased information technology service. Item eight, contract award Microsoft Enterprise Agreement. Item 9, November 2023, bond referendum.

[00:09:05] Item 10, Cascades, community parking, profit, amendment, public hearing, waiver, and fee reduction. Item 12A, Agriculture District Advisory Committee Bylaws Updates and Presentation of Annual Report. And item 12B, Historic District Review Committee Bylaws Update.

[00:09:24] I will make a motion to approve. Is there a second? Seconded by Ms. Brixman. Discussion on the motion. I'm sorry? Madam Chair, did 12A come off? 12A is still on. You want to pull 12A off? No, you didn't.

[00:09:39] I did not say 12A? Unless I missed it. I think it doesn't matter. We will say 12A. So 12A, which is, I'll say it again if I didn't say it, Agriculture District Advisory Committee bylaws, update, and presentation of annual reports. All right. Ms. Brixman? Thank you, Madam Chair.

[00:09:55] I just wanted to thank my colleagues for supporting the Cascades Community Parking Proffer Amendment public hearing waiver and fee reduction, Cascades HOA is looking to use some extra parking lot they have for either open space or active rec. It's definitely over-parked there at the Lowe's Island Community Center, and so they want to use the space for the community in a better way, and it will be coming to us later. This is just to waive the fee and the public hearing for it.

[00:10:29] thank you madam chair thank you ma'am anybody else seeing none on people say aye any opposed that motion will pass 702 with mr buffington and mr sains off the dais right now are there any uh additions or deletions to the night's agenda i don't think we have any i i'm not going i don't have a voice for a cause tonight because my voice for a cause did not they did not yet complete their non-profit paperwork and voice for a cause is is never for a for-profit business and it has to be a non-profit that is here in Loudoun County so they they thought they would have the paperwork completed they didn't and so we're just going to hold

[00:11:07] them to another another day but I do have some organizational updates and things that happened between last time we were here in this time a couple of big ones MBTA the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority had our celebration for 20 years of the bill's passage and 10-year funding of HB 2313, which was the bill that actually funded NVTA. It was, especially if you like transportation and such, one of the

[00:11:41] most, well, really, really fun, but most interesting events I attended. Bob McDonnell was the governor when NVTA, when 2313 passed and was really in support of it. And Dave Albo, who was, and Bill Howell, they happen to all be Republicans, and NVTA 2313, we'd have to have a tax increase.

[00:12:09] And the discussion, I guess, at the time of the General Assembly was the fact that Northern Virginia was seen then and is still seen very much to be kind of a financial engine of Virginia and transportation issues were causing companies not to move here, causing quality of life issues.

[00:12:26] And so they knew they had to do something. And it was probably the last time really, really good bipartisan work happened in the General Assembly. Vivian Watts, who was a Democrat, but just brilliant about transportation.

[00:12:44] And so to have Bob McDonald, Governor McDonald there, Dave Albo there, Vivian Watts there, Marty Noe, and all of them talking about that experience of getting a tax increase for transportation passed that the governor who was a Republican wanted passed a Republican House and Senate with the assistance of the Democrats was just so interesting to hear.

[00:13:12] kind of cool. And it was a really fun event, but it also just highlighted the importance of kind of just really bipartisan good legislation. So that was there. I also had an event that was a little more sad. I accompanied members of our combined fire and rescue to the 26th annual Fallen Firefighters and EMS Memorial Service in Loudoun. We had a firefighter, paramedic, who was recognized and honored for his many years of service, it was Firefighter Paramedic Jeffrey

[00:13:47] Rizzo. There were 11 other firefighters and our paramedics who were remembered on that day, and it just reminds us again and all the time what a, you know, dangerous job that our first responders have and how well they do it. And then finally, many of you know that I, along with Mrs. Ains and Ms. Glass took a MOU sister county trip to Timah, Ghana.

[00:14:16] I will talk about all the nuances of that trip later on, but for this section, I want to say that the goal of a sister county trip, a goal of a sister county relationship is cultural exchanges, educational exchanges, and economic exchanges.

[00:14:35] Buddy Riser, who is just phenomenal in what he does, had quite a few meetings lined up before we even left to go. Those meetings were very, very successful, including one business that is looking to come to Loudoun as early as next month to have further discussions.

[00:14:52] So that is just phenomenal that we could see a turnaround that quickly. So under the economic part, we believe that the benefits of this trip are going to be substantial and seen quickly. Under the education section, unlike Virginia and TEMA, the government or the county board, as our counterparts, do control the operation of their school system.

[00:15:20] Of course, we do not. So what I'm going to do is make a connection between their superintendent and our superintendent to talk about how these two school systems can learn from each other, complement each other, those types of things, because the school system does not sit under our purview. So I let their superintendent, which is not actually her title, it's a different title, but the same position, know that I would be making that connection for them.

[00:15:46] And culturally, we didn't have time. I mean, we were there less than a week, and so we really didn't have time to do some of the cultural engagements we normally do to visit art galleries, museums, you know, things like that, you know, except for just being there and learning. Some of those cultural contexts were not made, and so that didn't happen. We did sign the MOU. They were ready, the beautiful, wonderful ceremony. My counterpart in Tema, his name is

[00:16:18] Yohani Ashiti. He and I signed the MOU the first day that we were there, and then from then on we had quite a few other experiences, as did Mr. Reiser. Some of those experiences are best left to my board comments. When I get there, I'll talk about those. But I did want to really recognize Bob McCuller, Buddy Reiser, and a man named Kixly Obagi, who helped us put all this together for a very, very successful trip to Timagana. I do have a fairly long

[00:16:56] post on it up on my Facebook page if anyone wants to go look at some of the pictures and the things that we did, you can do that. Finally, I will say that I am more encouraged, not less, that a goal of a small chocolate manufacturing operation in Loudoun County is very possible. I believe it's very possible. And I saw Mr. Kirshner's head go up. Chocolate made Mr. Kirshner. Yeah, you got your attention now, huh? That's very good. Tim and Ghana has some of the largest quantity and the best

[00:17:33] quality cocoa beans in the world. And so I'll talk about a little more of that. Yeah, yeah. See, now Mr. Kirshner's on board. Chocolate, not chocolate, chocolate. Well, we did bring some back and I'll make sure that you guys all, we will, we have three boxes of chocolate and we will make sure we get the chocolate passed out to everybody. There was one chocolate drink that had no sugar but tasted a lot like a Yahoo, but there was no sugar in it. So it was like, that was interesting.

[00:18:02] But I'll talk about that a little bit more later. But I do have a goal to just increase small manufacturing and loud in any way, but if we can do that in partnership with assistance to you, that would also be just fantastic. So that is all the comments I have.

[00:18:18] And as I said, I'll do my voice for a cause next meeting. So I will ask Mr. Hempfrey, do you have any comments you'd like to make, sir? Thank you, Madam Chair. I've got four comments for this evening. The first is that the Loudoun County Health Department is resuming in-person services for the Women, Infants, and Children Program, also known as WIC. The office was closed to in-person services during the pandemic, but is now accepting appointments for in-person services in a phased approach. Additionally, the county has opened a second WIC office located in Leesburg, provided options for services in Ashburn and Leesburg. More information is online at loudon.gov slash WIC. The second is that the next session of the program sponsored

[00:18:58] by Loudon County to help fathers build skills to become even stronger dads begins Tuesday, July 11th. All fathers are welcome to attend the free 12-week virtual program, which teaches parenting techniques and strategies, provides fathers with peer support and guidance, and allows fathers the opportunity to discover their own parenting strengths.

[00:19:16] A link to register is available at loudon.gov slash fatherhood. A third, the county is issued a request for qualifications, or RFQ, for one of our affordable housing financing programs for developers, the Rental Housing Acquisition and Preservation Loan Program. The purpose of the program is to preserve affordable multifamily rental housing units in Loudon.

[00:19:37] The RFQ will provide the county with a pool of certified developers who will receive priority consideration for program loans. Anyone with questions about the program may send an email to housing at loudon.gov. And then finally, congratulations are in order for Loudon County Crime Analyst Rebecca Kelly, who has been named the 2022 Civilian of the Year by the Major County Sheriffs of America Association.

[00:20:02] Ms. Kelly is being honored for her extensive research and compilation of evidence that helped lead to a successful prosecution for a 2021 homicide in the Broadlands area. Those are my comments this evening, Sharon. Well, we'll have to get Ms. Kelly in here for a resolution as well, won't we? Congratulations to her.

[00:20:18] Okay, supervisors, I'm going to wait until everyone's here before we do nominations. We're going to have to turn back around to it again. We will, we will, it is very possible we will be done with this agenda by 6 o'clock. That's because we're just rocking and rolling right through it. And so what we will do, I'm assuming everyone who needs to be in the room is in the room for our action items.

[00:20:39] We do not have any information items tonight. And the first action we would do is the EDA advisory committee. No, that is not right because that falls under nomination. So hold on calmly. We won't do that. We will do item number three, the proposed amendments to the Board of Supervisors rules of order to implement changes in public hearing notice requirements, which, by the way, you have a blue piece of paper that everyone just received, and this could be a bit of a discussion, but I don't want to start any of the EDA or nominations until Mr. Sains gets here, so we can all be part of that conversation.

[00:21:15] Good evening, everyone. Item number three is what we're doing right now. Did everyone get a, did all of you all get a briefing on this one already? No? Huh. Really?

[00:21:31] Because, maybe not. Okay, I'm number three. Hello. Good evening, Chair Randall and board members. So I will be brief, and I'm happy to answer any questions that the board members may have about this um generally this item was precipitated by some code changes in the 2023 uh session of the general assembly which were intended to streamline and and simplify all the various public notice requirements applicable to local government and various sections throughout the code there were

[00:22:06] many many sections of the code impacted um my understanding is that at the last minute there were some drop-in language changes that both created some ambiguity in the text and also had some unintended consequences, I think. I hope they were unintended. And so just very generally what happened is it imposed a requirement that said that your public notice needed to be published no more than 14 days before the date of your proposed adoption or passage. And this really

[00:22:42] impacts your land use items, zoning ordinances, and also general ordinances that are not otherwise governed by a specific provision of the code. And so what happens with that is, as the board is well aware, often at public hearing, you forward an item to a business meeting for action at that time.

[00:23:03] I mean, you don't always take action on an item at the public hearing. So the concern is that if then public notice has to be published no more than 14 days before you take action. If you forward something to a subsequent business meeting for action, you wouldn't be able to comply with that 14-day requirement without another publication.

[00:23:27] The code section pertaining to land use items in particular also specifically references that that notice has to provide information about the public's opportunity to comment, which indicates that it is specifically for, that that notice has to reference a public hearing.

[00:23:44] And so what we've done is proposed changes to the board's rules of order regarding public hearings. We've proposed it to be just a global change so that for consistency with, you know, so we're not stuck as staff or as the board trying to figure out, do these different rules apply to this item or that?

[00:24:06] So just to have some consistency with how all of your public hearing items are dealt with. If there was ever a situation where we had some sort of exigency or some reason why we might want to consider a deviation from that, we could take that up.

[00:24:23] But this proposes a global change to those rules of order for public hearing. And so essentially what the change is that instead of the current rules of order which state that, well, your current rules of order state that except for items on the consolidated public hearing agenda in order to take final action at the public hearing you need a motion to suspend the rules and so we would change that to say that you don't need a motion to suspend the rules at the public hearing as long as the board is satisfied that all out that there are no outstanding issues that all issues have been resolved to the board satisfaction and you're

[00:25:00] ready to take action if that's the case then the board could take action without a at the public hearing without a motion to suspend the rules if the board felt that all issues had not been resolved then what we would propose is that instead of referring the item to a future business meeting which is generally your current practice you would forward it to a subsequent public hearing so that we would be able to re-advertise it in order to comply with that 14-day requirement or if the board wanted to like for some items you sometimes especially land use items sometimes refer them to t-lock depending on the type of item there might be an instance where you

[00:25:37] would want to afford it to finance so if there was a situation where you wanted to afford an item to the appropriate standing committee you could certainly do that coming out of out of public hearing and then when the standing committee was done with their work they would refer it back to the board to a public hearing for read advertisement and and action so that that's the proposal. Supervisors, this is really a change in how we think. As Mr. Letourneau and I often kind of say, you know, to suspend the rules and pass something, there's usually a reason to do

[00:26:13] that. You know, that's not a thing that we normally do. So this is literally a whole different mind shift in how we do it. So let's have the discussions. When does this need to go into effect July 1st? Yes, so the new code change is going to effect July 1st, so we would be implementing this starting with any of your items at the July public hearing. Okay, all right. Questions, Supervisors. Mr. Letourneau.

[00:26:40] Thank you. Well, first of all, of all the bizarre things for the General Assembly to meddle in, this one really might take the cake, and it's such a nonsensical thing to do, so I guess I'll save my editorializing for now, but effectively, am I wrong, what this does is make it such that we will never do land use at a business meeting again, right? We basically have to do land use, any land use, debate, discussion at a public hearing. So that is the way that we have set up this rules change. If for some reason

[00:27:15] the board wanted to refer an item to business meeting as opposed to a standing committee because you wanted the full board to be able to discuss it you could do so but then we would say you wouldn't take action at the business well can we advertise for a business meeting you could do that yes so and that was sort of what i had when i intimated that if there was an exception that you wanted to make where on this particular case we wanted to refer this to a business meeting and have the potential to take action a business meeting yes you could certainly do that we proposed

[00:27:49] it as i explained and as it's set out in the item just to have a consistent process so that we're not having to advertise business meetings regularly or having a different set of rules i mean is there a is there a huge downside to that because i'm really concerned about just the board operations here because what these public hearings are going to turn into marathons and we might as well change the time on our business meetings because all of a sudden they're going to get less but um so but

[00:28:22] But you would, maybe Tim, you would have a concern about consistently advertising action at a business meeting instead of a public hearing? So, Madam Chair, yes. So, the issue is for land use items, they would still have to be done in a public hearing.

[00:28:40] And so, you could send it to a business meeting, but then we'd have to set up the business meeting so that the business meeting is either concluded or the business meeting is recessed to hold the public hearing to consider the item. And then in addition to that, we would have to change our advertising schedule because we would be required to advertise as if it is a public hearing, which then.

[00:29:03] But couldn't we essentially double advertise an item going to a public hearing and to a business meeting, like the next business meeting? So the challenge with that is if the board does something different, that would be presupposing the action of the board and the outcome of the board.

[00:29:20] Because as I understand the requirement, it has to be advertised within the advertising requirement. Effectively, I'm running out of time. What we would do is let's just say we have a public hearing. We don't feel an item is ready for action. We have to forward it to the next month's public hearing. Or two months.

[00:29:36] Now, when it comes back, it could come back on the consolidated agenda if it's all resolved, in which case it would just be on, it would. But wouldn't the hearing requirements, 14-day things still apply? The advertising would still apply. keep in mind, we are in a regular cycle for the advertising of public hearings, which is why it's easier for us to not make a mistake if we leave it public hearing to public hearing. Mr. Rogers, you want to say something? Yes, let me follow up on that. The advertising is 14 days from the

[00:30:05] board's action or adoption. So yes, it would apply. Yeah. Ms. Bricksman, what problem were they're trying to solve so in title 15.2 of the code there are many many different code sections that deal with advertisements by local governments for different types of things many of them with some of them are two weeks some of them are three weeks some of them are only one week they

[00:30:38] had all different sorts of timing requirements so the effort was to supposedly was to streamline and make it more consistent. But then, as I said, at the end, there were some last-minute changes dropped in.

[00:30:54] For example, the last version of this bill that I read did not have this language in it at all. I didn't realize this language was in there until after it had already been adopted. And then what I heard was that it got dropped in at the last minute to satisfy some particular stakeholders.

[00:31:10] So the intent was to make it easier, but unfortunately, it made some complications. We could, though, don't we already advertise our business meetings? So we don't advertise them in the newspaper.

[00:31:28] So we don't do a public hearing style advertisement for a business meeting. And you don't have an opportunity for, well, you have general public comment at all of your business meetings. It's not, members of the public, this application or this ordinance is on the agenda for this night.

[00:31:44] Please come and speak about this particular item. Did the county or VACO have a position on this? So there was a working group with VACO, VML, and the local government attorneys of Virginia working with other stakeholders, including the Press Association. As I said, they had reached some compromise positions that did not include this language.

[00:32:04] As I said, this language that we're talking about tonight was a last-minute add-in. Well, how come they didn't have to have a public hearing? I'm joking. Okay. Do you know how other localities are handling this?

[00:32:21] We're probably the first to take this out, to be honest. I've heard different things from different localities, including some localities that said they always take action at their public hearing. A lot of localities don't have a difference between their public hearing and their business meeting as we do.

[00:32:38] so there's a public notice advertisement for all of their meetings in any event some of them are not concerned and are just going to continue with their practice oh that's interesting um so there's you know there there's a a range of different it's william doesn't have subcommittee so they can't send it to a subcommittee have you um read the motion that's on the dais yes so to me this motion It almost sounds like we're operating the same, except that if we're not satisfied with an item, we're forwarding it to a public hearing instead of a business meeting.

[00:33:17] So that is what the motion in the packet is. That's generally it. And then also the motion in the packet would be that you don't need a motion to suspend the rules in order to take action at the public hearing. The motion on the dais, I think the difference is that it would still require a motion to suspend the rules.

[00:33:37] Okay, thank you. I'm out of time. I've come to believe that if you want to serve in the Virginia General Assembly, you should have to serve in local office at least a term, because this is completely illogical. There are other options.

[00:33:55] Now, I'm not sure how I would do the agenda, but another option is to send it out of public hearing to the next business meeting, because right now we go out of public hearing to two business meetings from then. the problem is that often doesn't give time to for whatever issues need to be resolved to be resolved and I mean like right now I've already we've already discussed the next business meeting and so it would it would require me to adjust the business meeting really often and maybe not give people enough time to see it there so I don't love that idea but it is something that that could

[00:34:33] happen if i may madam chair yes i think the option would have to be not to the next business meeting which is the second business meeting in the month because you would not have time to do the advertisement it's the very next week the option would have to be the first business meeting of the following month probably or or the second i'm sorry it would have to be a business meeting in the next month in order to do the average yeah and i'm saying i'm saying that my point is to the next business meeting you wouldn't have a requirement to do the advertising again that's my point yes you would because the point here is that the new code changes that it must be advertised no more than 14 days before

[00:35:12] the action and it has to be advertised for two consecutive weeks so in order to make the public hearing we are doing exactly two weeks before yeah sorry yep yeah I got you this is ridiculous um the problem is you know a lot of times in public hearing is when for the first time the full board might see something have time to work things out ask questions the applicant you know is is working on whatever they're working on that's what happens in public in public hearings and so it takes all those opportunities away and in some ways it makes it less transparent because now all that working things through goes kind of

[00:35:50] behind the scenes um now so what would happen if it came out of public hearing and went to the next public hearing on the consolidated agenda it would just mean that for the next public hearing have to be advertised the same even if it's for the consolidated agenda is that correct yes because there's no difference in how we advertise things on the consolidated agenda or not yeah all right all right um supervisors by by by practice i go to the meeting i go to the to the motion in the

[00:36:28] package first it's just what i do by practice but because this is i i think that there can be an exception to the rule because this is so kind of just new to us and a little crazy mr turner you have a motion i'm not going to speak because i've spoke already and you but but you have a motion on the day is. Would you like to take just a second to explain your rationale for your motion before you make your motion? Can you want to do that? Thank you, Madam Chair. I was very concerned.

[00:36:57] I want to do that before. No one can even second his motion until we know what, just try to explain the motion as quickly as possible. I was very concerned that we were going to go from a 14-day prior notice to a decision on land application, and we were basically short-sheeting the public, And I was very concerned about that.

[00:37:15] My motion says the default position will be it goes to the next public hearing and it's advertised. You can still suspend the rule. Okay, go on, because I need you to make the motion as soon as possible. So explain why you're doing this.

[00:37:31] I'm doing this because I want to give us time between the first time it's advertised, first time we hear about it, and the next time we hear about it, because there's a whole lot of work that goes on in that time frame, and I don't want to get rid of that time frame. But I am now sensitive to Supervisor Letourneau's comments that even with my solution, we'll never see a land application or an ordinance change in a business meeting again.

[00:37:50] So I'm open to ideas now, but it seems to me that forwarding it to the board meeting and having a separate breakout in the board meeting where we recess the meeting and then have public options. Okay, then I'm going to make the motion in the package. I'm going to make the package motion and we'll have the discussion. Okay. Will the board supervisors adopt amendments to the rules of order found in Attachment 1 to the June 20, 2023 reports about this business meeting action item to ensure that required notices are published no more than 14 days before the attended adoption or passage of a public hearing item.

[00:38:25] All right. Thank you, Ms. Umstad. All right. I think that the, I think this is, first of all, I believe we should put this in our package next year, depending on who's sitting on this day is, to have this change back because this is illogical.

[00:38:44] That's the first thing. So let's just put that out there. But until that happens, we have to figure this out. So in this motion, there would be no suspension of the rules, correct? Correct.

[00:39:00] Okay. So it would go to, it could go to a business meeting, or it could go to the next public hearing. If it goes to the next public hearing, there are no suspension of the rules. But either one is possible.

[00:39:15] Either way, you have to advertise again. Is that correct? either way you have to advertise again the way the rule is set out is that you would refer it to the next public hearing if you wanted to refer it to a business meeting you'd have to make that motion specifically in that case or change the way this rule is why why suspend the rules and to send it to another suspend it to to send it to the business meeting we'd have to suspend the rules correct tell me why you and you may have said it already And so I apologize.

[00:39:50] Just tell me one more time why you believe it's a better idea to send it to another public hearing than to send it to a business meeting. Because either way, you have to advertise again. Right. So I think it was proposed that way by staff for the reasons Mr. Hemstreet said, just in terms of timelines for advertising, how we're just, I think, to have the least amount of disruption to the administrative processes of the staff, but if, and to avoid potential mistakes.

[00:40:18] But if the board wants to do it differently, we could certainly accommodate that. Well, the reason I might want to do it differently is exactly what Mr. Letourneau said. It's going to make business meetings shorter because there are almost no land use items on business meetings.

[00:40:37] And public hearings, which actually start right now, later, they would be much longer public hearings. And we put our business meetings one hour earlier for a reason. And, in fact, I think it's working really, really well, to be honest. We'll walk on this dance at 4, walk off at 7 for a business meeting, but then for a public hearing, we will be here just forever.

[00:41:01] So I guess it's 6 in one hand, have that on the other, to be quite honest, because either way, they're going to be somewhere. But, you know, I'll hear the discussion of the body. I tend to want to move things to business meetings. I think business meetings are where most people, you know, think to come speak and look, and I really, if the goal is to make this transparent as possible, that's normally done. People normally look to business meetings more than public hearings for final votes to be taken. So I think I'd rather have in the business meeting, but I am looking forward to hearing my colleagues, Ms. Namstreet. So thank you, Chair Randall. I just want to make sure the board

[00:41:37] understands the advertising requirement. If the board wants to change this to send it to a business meeting, it would, it actually takes longer. And so the issue in order to, in order to meet the advertising requirements, which includes the process we have to utilize upfront with the newspaper, because there's a, we have to provide the ad, we have to get a proof back, then we have to approve the ad. So that all that has to happen before the two week run. And so the reason why we were proposing to go from one public hearing to the next is that sets you up for a four week cadence

[00:42:16] in between actions when you consider legislative items. If you send it to a board business meeting, it is going to have to go to the second meeting of the next month following the public hearing, which is actually six weeks. Ah, okay, all right, all right.

[00:42:32] Trying to address what applicants and board members often want, which is to try to conclude these things as quickly as possible. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. It's easier to send it to the next public hearing. The second issue is that if it is going to a public hearing, if there is a built-in incentive for the developer to address all of the board's issues, because if they do, then it would automatically go to the consolidated agenda if we're able to resolve all of those issues, which then shortens that meeting.

[00:43:06] So that's the thought process in trying to meet the advertising requirements. Okay, I'll make other comments in my closing, but okay, thank you. Thank you. Mr. Bradmington. Thank you, Madam Chair. So in some ways, this is reminding me a little bit, and I know it's different, of on the last board when we were told we had to update the flood zone.

[00:43:27] And we updated the flood zone and come to find out we're the only county in Virginia that updated the flood zone. It caused a lot of problems, at least for me and my district with my constituents, a lot of them. I mean, I agree with you. It needs to go on the legislative agenda.

[00:43:43] It sounds to me this was a developer initiative that got passed last minute to try and get us to act quicker on their applications and have more pressure on us to do that. I mean, I honestly right now I'm feeling like maybe we just don't do anything like some of the other counties have already said they're not going to do.

[00:44:01] And I guess I would leave it up to staff to respond to what are the possible negative consequences. And do you think it's really something we would get ourselves in trouble with if we just fail to take action and just keep doing business as usual until we see how it goes on our legislative agenda next year?

[00:44:19] I think you run the risk of someone who comes in and doesn't like an action you take and decides to challenge it on a notice grounds because, frankly, you have broad legislative discretion for the decisions that you make. So the challenges that get made, a la Fairfax very recently, are on technical notice ground.

[00:44:39] So we were trying to read it as literally as possible to avoid that. That's why we would recommend not do it. I definitely appreciate that. I think it's due diligence for you all. It's probably something that we should strongly consider.

[00:44:57] I think my option would definitely be the least amount of disruption for the way staff does things. as you said you were looking for so i'm not sure where i'm at yet but i may vote to know on everything and should just keep things business as usual and let's add this to our legislative agenda okay mr hamstring mr hamstring i'm sorry chair i just need to react to that comment if the board i'm just going to tell you what i'm going to do as a county administrator if if the board elects to not change the board rules i am going to direct staff to bring things to you and give you motions that are consistent with what the statute says.

[00:45:38] And then if you try to do something or attempt to do something that's not consistent in the statute, then staff will object to that motion and we will just do that on every single item. Because I think it's important as staff for us to advise you to follow what's in the statute or at least our interpretation of the statute.

[00:45:57] So I just need to... Can I paraphrase what you just said? you're going to encourage the body that you advise to not break the law. Thank you, Mr. Amitree.

[00:46:18] Ms. Glass? Thank you, Madam Chair. Is it possible that the board could hold two public hearing meetings and one business meeting a month? So instead of two business meetings like we have now in one public hearing we have two public hearing meetings in one business meeting are you asking me that I'm asking it's possible for us to adjust our schedule any way we want to if it's just impossible we can adjust we can do anything we want to help I mean to to help with the process

[00:46:52] that work that we're talking about would that okay miss Jim Street so there is there just there are double the number of items on the regular board business meeting as there are for public hearings. We do have some occasionally, like we do have long public hearings, but that's not the norm. The reason why I'm not sure that helps us is because we still have the 14-day advertising item to deal with. And so if we set it up to do public hearing to public hearing to public hearing, that gives us the three weeks to hit in the four-week cadence to hit every single public hearing on items that are coming out of one public hearing and going to

[00:47:32] the next and so it just from an administrative perspective and from a notice perspective that gives us the best the best way of doing this without making a mistake or an error and also meeting the requirements I miss miss class if I may also I would I would remind you that in our board meetings we also have information items if we did once a month they would stack up we have nominations they would stack up we have resolutions they would stack up and so So we do more than just land use in the business meeting.

[00:48:04] So I would not, as chair, I would not approve that or vote for that rules change. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Turner. Thank you, Madam Chair. So if staff or Mr. Amstreet or Mr. Rogers, correct me if I don't have this synopsis correct.

[00:48:24] So we know what the current process is. The code, by the way, this is why I will never run for delegate or state senator. This right here. The process that we're proposing is we go to a public hearing.

[00:48:41] By default, the item can be voted on without a suspension of the rules at that public hearing, so potentially we could go from 14 days between advertising and approval of a land application or an ordinance change. The alternate motion I have here is to go, and I think staff supports it based on Mr. Hemstreet's comments, is to go from public hearing to public hearing, so the default position becomes you have to suspend the rules If you want to act on the item as we do right now, the default position is the item would then move to the next public hearing.

[00:49:09] We would advertise for that public hearing. But then the new rule of that second public hearing would kick in, and we wouldn't have to suspend the rules. We could vote on that item. Go ahead. I guess I was just going to say, as you were talking, I'm not sure if I read it in this motion, whether this contemplates that when the item comes back for a second public hearing, that a rule suspension is not needed that time.

[00:49:31] It does. It does? Okay. I thought it, I thought it did. Okay, all right, then yes. The alternative, the third alternative is to go, is to refer to a board meeting. I absolutely am sensitive to the staff's position that we could get into a one-month cadence, which will be a nice, efficient cadence.

[00:49:50] Public hearings start at 6 o'clock, correct? For a reason, because most people don't go back from work and get to a public hearing in time for them. They're specifically tailored around the public meeting. So now we're going to lay on basically our board meeting agenda, which we've tried to shorten up into an earlier time frame so we get out of here at a reasonable hour for staff and the public.

[00:50:12] Now we're piling on to the public hearing process, which now can't start until 6 o'clock. I think there's a lot to be said for public hearing to board meeting and re-advertising the board meeting and jerry-rigging essentially the board meeting so that for default we have a portion within the board meeting, maybe it's the four to six time frame where we have the public hearing portion to start the board meeting and then roll into the board meeting so we comply with the second public hearing requirements for the advertisement for the board meeting.

[00:50:46] I'm all wrapped around the axle. No, and asking staff to, and us violating the law is not one of the options. So I think our two options are either we go public hearing to public hearing, and we have gargantuan public hearings, which is what's going to happen. Or we go public hearing to second board meeting and advertise a second board meeting and break that board meeting up into the public hearing portion and the board portion as a matter of consistency.

[00:51:15] Mr. Attorney, do you mind if I say back to you what I think you just said? So you're saying if it goes public meeting to board meeting, then the board meeting becomes a two-part, and part of it's a board meeting and part of it's a public hearing, but on the same date at the same time. Is that what you're saying?

[00:51:31] That's correct. That's an interesting idea. It would have to go to the second board meeting because you don't have time to advertise for the first board meeting. But you go to the second board meeting, and as a matter of course, we can say four to six is the public hearing portion of this meeting, adjourn it, and then go six to whenever and have the board meeting.

[00:51:48] and and you could you could you could take action in the public hearing yes you could take action in the public hearing so it doesn't necessarily mean the board meeting would go longer because you could actually take action during the public hearing portion wouldn't it be more logical to do the opposite do the four to six all the stuff we do right now and then after six to the public hearing or later on yeah you're right you're right because you want people to be able to get over here that's true okay all right um thank you mr. um Street mr. Rogers you guys have an opinion on that so we can do it just

[00:52:24] again it takes longer because you have to go to the next second meeting of the next month so you would be hitting the public hearing as opposed to having to wait that additional week okay mr. look you ready mr. Turner yeah so let me try to talk through where I think I am on this other than we agree it all stinks and you know we should definitely try to get it and by the way it will be this board that initially sets up our that's right legislative packet so hopefully we're all in agreement um i think what i'm i mean we don't truly spend a lot of time and it's not that often

[00:53:02] that we have land use applications that take a lot of time in a business meeting truthfully i don't know how it's going to go like this we may need to make adjustments um where i would probably be personally is sticking with what staff has proposed even though i do think there's a little of an issue here where it's blowing up our schedule a little bit more in order to keep it on a staff aligned schedule but i kind of like mr turner's twist which is the presumption that we're not acting at the same hearing that we're hearing something for the first time as i understand the

[00:53:39] difference between this motion and what's in the packet it's the packet motion assumes that the board will act at the first public hearing and mr turner's motion assumes it won't but it still can if we suspend the rules and i probably would prefer that now that may slow things down in fact i think it would probably slow things down because we won't have the option to go to the next business meeting or the business meeting after that which we do very often on applications we don't usually wait to the third business meeting from the public hearing but you know what oh well we didn't ask for this change and perhaps the development community can join us in coming down and asking

[00:54:18] for this change because this is what that has fraught upon us um when we have a second public hearing so let's just say we hear something we decide we're not ready we got to go to the next public hearing does that mean we got to go through everything all over again so the applicant gets 10 minutes and the staff gets 10 minutes and the public and all that or can we just vote no you don't i mean you can have the those rules of order how you do it are how the board wants to do it and And as we said, an item could go on the consolidated agenda that second time if you're ready to just take action.

[00:54:52] Yeah, well, but the consolidated agenda is usually items that are unanimous. In fact, I think it's always items that are unanimous. In this case, a lot of these items are not. We even have some tonight that are not going to be unanimous. So we would need to be able to still debate an item and vote, you know, have probably differences up here voting on it without having another presentation from each side and all that stuff.

[00:55:17] So if that requires a rules change, then a subsequent action on this item passing tonight should be some sort of rules of order amendment about what happens at a second public hearing for an item. Yes, you could do that. And finally, I assume we have to act tonight on this because of the July 1 deadline.

[00:55:38] Because initially my thought was, boy, I'd like a little bit more time to try to think through this. I think yes, because otherwise what's going to happen is when you get to that July public hearing is you're going to have a rule suspension on every item to figure out what you're doing with it. Well, I don't know if Mr. Turner plans on making his motion.

[00:55:54] I probably would support it as changing that presumption. But otherwise, I'd probably stick with trying this out, and then we may have to adjust. Yeah, this is – Ms. Umstead. Thank you, Madam Chair. So my only question is, which of the two options in front of us, the staff prepared motion in the packet or Mr. Turner's motion, ensures best that we take action before a critical action day?

[00:56:28] So both motions are the same with respect to that. The only difference is that when an item is heard for the first time, in order for the board to act on it, it requires a suspension of the rules. The item in the packet does not require that suspension rules.

[00:56:45] Everything else is the same. So I know there was staff concern that we would not, under these new rules, be able to put something on a business meeting for a vote as quickly because we'd have to go not the first or the second meeting after the public hearing, but the third meeting.

[00:57:11] At some point between the public hearing and that third business meeting, a critical action date may have passed, in which case, what happens with that application? Automatically approved or a lawsuit ensues?

[00:57:30] If I could address that. Yes, Mr. Rogers. The critical action date would allow the applicant developer to file an action to get the board to act but the board would be acting the earliest possible time it could under the provisions in the code so i don't see a critical action date lawsuit being filed if the board puts it off to the next public hearing what about the business meeting after the next public hearing again they'd have to get into the courthouse to get a judge to order the county to do what we're already planning to do

[00:58:05] i don't see it happening okay so from a practical standpoint you don't see it happening but legally they would have a right to do that that is correct all right thank you great question thank you miss brixman thank you madam chair um so i think it's not the fact that we have to have a public hearing it's the advertising that is the issue correct for lane use items i think it's both because it refers to the the advertisement and then it says the advertisement must identify the place where

[00:58:43] members of the public can come and be heard on the item and so that's the statute makes the advertisement is about telling people when they can come and speak so for those items it's both but this doesn't preclude us from sending an item to a business meeting and advertising the business meeting it wouldn't preclude us from doing that no in that instance you would just follow the procedure that mr hemstreet talked about earlier in terms of how we manage our processes for business meetings versus a public hearing if you're doing them on the same night but but we

[00:59:17] don't have to necessarily have a public hearing and a business meeting together if we forward it to the third business meeting we just advertise the business meeting we already have public speakers that come to the business meeting so why does it have to be advertised for a public hearing as well why would we have to do that mr hamstring i'm sorry so i i think at your business meetings that is a comment time for people to come in and speak about anything that they want to speak about versus that you're a public hearing that is a time for people to come about and speak of that

[00:59:51] excuse me speak about the specific items on the agenda and so i think it's a difference in inviting people to come we're going to hear if you got 50 people in the room who want to speak on that item all 50 of them get to speak i see it's a public hearing regardless of i got you i Gotcha. And another way something comes off the consent agenda, though, is if speakers come to speak.

[01:00:16] So ostensibly, someone who doesn't want something to pass could come and speak, and then it gets bumped again. And then they just come and speak at the next one, then it gets bumped again. It doesn't mean it doesn't pass. It just means it's not on the consent agenda.

[01:00:32] Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. And stuff, we can pass things that aren't unconsolidated, right? or let me ask that another way we can yes if it's on consolidated yes we can pass things are not not on consolidated okay so your doesn't that's what i thought your current rules of order don't require a motion to suspend the rules for things on consolidated i think what's missing here is that whoever did this doesn't understand how we do our work as chair randall said i mean i think for me this is going to force me to get in the business of other districts way earlier than i

[01:01:11] would have. I usually kind of wait till the public hearing packet comes out before I start asking questions about something. I do. Like, I don't tend to get in the business until, or even talk about something until after it's come to public hearing or even to a business meeting. Okay. But now I feel like I'm going to have to know about it when it comes to the public hearing. I'm just trying to turn your times up. I'm sorry. That's what I'm doing right now, Mr. Kershner. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[01:01:38] I think we're making this far more complicated than we need to, and correct me if I'm wrong. It seems very simple to me. We're just kind of changing the way we do things, and there are a few concerns I think that were addressed, Ms. Umstead. I had the same concern. I checked up on it.

[01:01:54] I was satisfied with the answer. I think we could technically suspend the rules there, too, but given that's our next action date, they're going to have to get into court, so I'm not too worried about that. If we wanted to and we wanted to hurry something, we could say, hey, we're going to set the the next business meeting as a public hearing or whatever, re-advertise it.

[01:02:11] I think there's no question that this is going to take us longer in public hearings. So we're going to have probably – public hearings are always much shorter than our business meetings as a general rule. One time last – two years ago, it went to past midnight, I remember. It went late, but that's a very – so I think what we're going to do is, in large part, kind of evenly distribute our meetings from a practical standpoint.

[01:02:32] So I actually think that's honestly a good thing. And what we're not going to have to do is suspend the rules. I think it used to be the practice of the board when I watched board meetings years ago to suspend the rules far more often than this board has and go ahead and pass something. So we would need to move it to another public hearing or it would automatically go into effect.

[01:02:53] So to me, it's just a matter of semantics. We're moving a few things around to meet the statute. And quite frankly, I think if this is going to make it easier on staff, we can adjust our lifestyle here as board members a little bit, get into the items a little bit earlier if we need to, look at other districts if we want to look at it.

[01:03:09] We're just going to have to do our homework a little bit earlier unless we want to move something. So I have no problem with that. I do that in any way. So I would support this motion as read. Okay. Mr. Kirshner, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I think it's a little bit more complicated.

[01:03:26] I think that you're from a district that don't actually have a lot of land use items. And so for you, it may not be quite as complicated as some other districts, especially depending on what happens next term. So I do think it's, I think it was one, complicated, and two, I think it's completely unnecessary, to be honest. But having said that, I also very often, I mean, I think our staff works very, very hard.

[01:03:48] I don't want to make things any harder for them, and I don't know that I believe, I think Mr. Turner's idea is an interesting one, but I also believe it would make for that meeting to be really long because of what Ms. Surtner just said, that if we did a business meeting and public hearing in the same meeting, we could do the business meeting stuff to get that all set, but then the public meeting could have gosh knows how many people speaking, and once we're in the public meeting, we have to let them all speak because it's a public meeting.

[01:04:24] There's no limit. It's not that 90-minute limit on how many people can speak in a public hearing. And so that meeting could be fairly god-awful long, to be honest. And so after hearing all the discussion, I believe that the motion in the package is the best of a bad situation, to be honest.

[01:04:53] And it's very frustrating, and it's the best of a bad situation. I also don't want to make applicants wait six weeks if they don't have to. That's a long time. And it's not, I mean, I tend to agree, Mr. Buffington, that I have a feeling I know where this came from, but I don't know that for sure yet.

[01:05:16] And so there's no reason to try to kind of be punitive to one industry when we're not quite sure where this bubbled up from or why it's here. Six weeks is a long time. critical action dates are in question. I also don't think anyone's going to come in and send anything to court because it just makes no sense to do that.

[01:05:34] So I think that unless there is anyone who wants to make a friendly amendment or another amendment on the motion, I'm going to go on and hold the vote on the motion. And Chair, I propose an alternate motion. You propose an alternate motion?

[01:05:55] Correct. I made a motion, Ms. Second, that we're in the motion right now. That's what we're doing. And I'm proposing an alternate motion. I hear you. What is your alternate motion, sir? Well, as you have before you, I can read the entire thing, or I can just refer to it as before you on the dais and provide it to county staff.

[01:06:11] Can any of the... Okay. I can make the alternate motion and explain it briefly in my comment. Well, I'm going to actually make you make the alternate motion in all of its glory because I think that this is so new for everyone. We want to all follow it. So an alternate motion is going to be made.

[01:06:27] Mr. Turner. Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that the Board of Supervisors adopt amendments to the Rules of Order found on Attachment 1 to the June 20, 2023 Board of Supervisors business meeting action item to ensure that required notices are published, quote, not more than 14 days, unquote, before the intended adoption or passage of a public hearing item with the following changes.

[01:06:51] Section 11, amendments and motions subsection O, voting at a public hearing be changed to read as follows. It shall normally be the policy that the board not vote to approve or deny an item during a public hearing on matters that are on the agenda unless all matters are resolved. If an item is moved for approval or denial at the public hearing, a motion to suspend the rule shall be in order to bring the matter to a vote. All of the motions to forward the item to another public hearing for action or standing committee are in order and do not require suspensions of the rules. If the board forwards an item to the appropriate standing committee for further discussion, then the standing committee once it has completed its review shall forward the item to the

[01:07:30] next available public hearing section 17 rules of order for public comments and public hearing subsection B public hearings item 10 be changed to read as follows it shall continue to be board practice to not vote on matters appearing on a public hearing agenda as a new item at the time of the public hearing unless on the consolidated agenda and instead the item is to be placed on a future public hearing agenda as a returning item for action however should the board desire to vote to approve or deny a new item on the public hearing agenda that is not part of the consolidated agenda then a motion to suspend the rule shall be in order to bring the new item to a vote at its

[01:08:07] first public hearing it shall be the policy of the board to leave the record open to receive written comments following a public hearing up until the time that a vote is taken section 17 rules of order for public comments and public hearing subsection C consolidated public hearing agenda item 6 be changed to read as follows after a call for public speakers have been made the board may consider acting on each individual item on the consolidated public hearing agenda without any requirement for the suspension of the rules motions to approve each item on the consolidated public hearing agenda shall be voted upon individually and recorded for the public record there is

[01:08:44] a motion mr. Turner has seconded the motion can I have a point of clarification before you go on mr. Turner on the second section it shall continue to be the board's practice to not vote on matters appearing on the public hearing agenda as a new item at the time of the public hearing unless on the consolidated agenda. That's actually not correct. It is unusual for us to vote on an item, but we can vote on it. That's the question Ms. Bricksman asked. We can vote on an item in public hearing if we suspend the rules right now that's not on the consolidated agenda. So that's actually not a correct statement.

[01:09:17] So, Chair Randall, if I can respond to that. So, that is how the current rules read, and so the rules do not permit you to vote on the item, which is why you have to suspend the rules. Oh, so you're saying unless a suspension of the rules happens, that's what you're trying to say here.

[01:09:33] Okay, we may want to add that language then. All right, Mr. Turner, you want to open? Very briefly, this is the option of instead of the presumption being that we're going to vote on actions when they come to the first public hearing no more than 14 days prior to public announcement, this defaults to a second public hearing so that you can still vote on an item at the first public hearing if you want to suspend the rules, as we do now.

[01:10:01] but the default position will be that it will automatically go to a second public hearing at that second public hearing you do not need to suspend the rules to approve it all it does is add a public hearing a second public hearing so now you have a month plus two weeks for the public to absorb it and for us to make changes gotcha gotcha it's a really the issue is the suspension of the rule in the second public hearing all right okay Mr. Letourneau yeah I think this What Supervisor Turner has proposed is the closest thing to the current process that we have of everything that's out there.

[01:10:34] Because as it stands now, when we hear an item at the public hearing, our presumption is not that we're going to act, but we can if we suspend the rules. So that would stay the same. Our presumption would be that we would not act, but we can if everybody is okay with an item. Otherwise, you know, if an applicant's coming in with a, you know, an item that isn't fully ready for primetime or there's considerable public opinion on or there's debate on the board, they know going into the meeting it's going to get sent to the next public hearing one month from that time.

[01:11:07] so that gives us a time certain i think that's better for applicants i think it's better for us and it removes some of the pressure that we would feel uh because otherwise somebody would then have to you know make the motion would it require a rule suspension under the original motion if we were to send it to a second public hearing or no under the original motion in the packet a rule suspension would not just just the majority motion be needed no okay to send it to a second public hearing but nevertheless i think essentially it ensures that the only items that get acted on at the night of the public hearing are the ones that are not controversial which is how it is now

[01:11:44] so i will support uh that motion okay um miss brixman thank you madam chair um i i'll support the motion and um let me say this a little bit more gracefully than when i had 10 seconds i think if it's an expectation for us to pass things at the first public hearing and mr buffington said it a little bit better it's going to force us to do our homework a lot earlier when a lot of us tend not to look especially at items that aren't from our district we tend not to we tend not to

[01:12:23] look at them unless it's something huge right like a ravana or something like that we tend not to look at those um and and then also the reason i think people who who uh who created this legislation don't understand what we do i mean public hearing is where we kind of do the work a lot of times that's where the sausage is getting made where we have conversations and discussions and we decide we want some changes to an application um and sometimes that comes up at public hearing so i I don't want the expectation to be that we're going to pass things at the first public hearing.

[01:13:03] I think at this point, the assumption should be, and I think I might be repeating a little bit of what Supervisor Letourneau said, but at this point, I think the assumption should be that it will be passed at the second public hearing, because we tend to do a lot of work in the first public hearing, if that makes sense. But listen, I agree we should put this in our legislative agenda, especially if it's not working out for us over the next several months and we don't we don't love it we should definitely put it in our legislative agenda but I thank my colleagues for doing the work on this and digging into it and I'm happy to support the motion thank you thank you mr. Buffington thank you madam chair

[01:13:39] under the primary motion in the packet and under this alternate motion I don't know if there's a difference in my question the answer to my question at At the second public hearing, if it goes to the second public hearing, would there be another dedicated opportunity for the public to then speak again after they had that first dedicated opportunity at the initial public hearing?

[01:14:03] Yes, unless you place the item on the consolidated agenda when it comes back for the second time. But if we do that and then one person shows up and signs up to speak on it, then it comes off, would it have to come off the consolidated agenda and let folks speak on it again?

[01:14:19] Right. So, I mean, your current rules is it only comes off consolidated if people sign up in advance to speak. If someone is just sitting in the room and stands up and wants to speak, they can and can stay on consolidated. I don't think that typically happens, but the answer to your question is yes. There would be a dedicated time if it's not on consolidated.

[01:14:37] And that's with both motions? Correct. The only difference is whether or not you have to suspend the rules at the first public hearing is really the only difference between the two. So, again, I think if this is something that developers were pushing, I mean, all they're doing is adding another opportunity for the public to speak.

[01:14:54] And a lot of times when the public comes out in mass to speak on something, it's against what the developers are trying to do. And the follow-on question would be, if nothing has changed from the first meeting to the second meeting and someone spoke at the first meeting, do they get to speak again at the second meeting?

[01:15:10] Or would we say, you already spoke on this? We probably wouldn't do that. I don't think we would do that. And I just want to say, because I don't want the developer colleagues that I work with every day to accuse me of accusing them of something.

[01:15:25] I don't think this was a developer initiative. I'm saying, I want to be clear that you have not told me that. I'm saying that's my hunch. That's the impression I'm getting, but hopefully I'm wrong. And let me further answer Mr. Reffington's question.

[01:15:40] So the answer is the public would be able to speak on this again. The question that Mr. Letourneau asked earlier, though, was a different question. It was whether or not the applicant would have a second 10 minutes to present. That would not happen. That would not happen because it happens in public hearing right now.

[01:15:57] But the public would speak on this. I think that's right, Madam Chair. And Mr. Galindo was messaging me when Mr. Letourneau asked his question before. Just like now when you have it come back to a business meeting, your staff has an opportunity to give you updates, and then you have an opportunity to ask the developer questions if you want to.

[01:16:19] So I imagine we could follow that same practice. But not the same presentation from them a second time. Mr. Kirshner? Yeah, my question was on what you were just discussing. It was my understanding from the earlier discussion that we may have to change our rules to avoid falling into the trap of allowing the developer and the staff to give a whole other 10-minute presentation.

[01:16:42] Am I, from what I just heard in the exchange, that was not, we'll have to revisit it. Madam Chair, I think Mr. Hemstreet had something to say. Mr. Hemstreet, I think you're right. Mr. Hemstreet. I'm sorry, Chair. I was going to offer this after the vote, but is it the board's pleasure for us to bring an item to your July 5th meeting that would be an additional amendment to the rules of order that would address the procedure for returning public hearing items?

[01:17:11] Yes, and I think the will of the board, and if I'm wrong, please somebody tell me, is that although constituents could speak a second time on the same item in a consecutive public hearing, but the applicant would not have a second presentation.

[01:17:29] If any supervisors had questions for the applicant, they can come, I would invite them to the table, but they wouldn't have time for a presentation at that second public hearing. Are we all, are we all, okay, yeah, that's all right. Thank you, Mr. Kirshner. And that was my basic question while I had my light on.

[01:17:44] I think I kind of prefer the first motion here. I'm not real bent on it, so I'll probably vote against this motion and support the other. But if this one passes, I won't have a heartburn. Okay. Ms. Glass. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I'd like to thank my colleagues for working on this.

[01:18:02] But I do need to ask staff, with this motion that we have here and the original motion, My concern is that the process that we're doing and which one would be the closest to what we're doing now.

[01:18:23] I think the one that's currently under consideration is probably the closest because it requires a rule suspension at the first public hearing if you want to take action at that public hearing. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. I have no comments.

[01:18:40] And Mr. Turner, would you like a closing? Quick close. I really profound thanks to my chief of staff, Rachel Mai, who called me this afternoon and said, we need to look at this this has implications and that's what started the process going and major kudos to mr. Hemstreet and the staff who turned a pretty complicated motion pretty fast in order to make this work so my thanks to everybody this was a real team effort I really appreciate it all right motion paid by Supervisor Turner second by Supervisor LeTurneau all people say aye

[01:19:12] Opposed? That motion will pass 7-2 with Ms. Umstad and Mr. Kirshner voting against the motion. Okay, we're going to go back to item number. Before we do nominations, it makes sense to do 1C before we do 1B.

[01:19:29] And so we're going to go back to 1C and ask if DED will come to the table. It's a fairly easy, fairly obvious item, and I'm going to go to Ms. Umstead for a motion.

[01:19:46] I don't think it's, I think it's fairly self-explanatory. Do you have a lot of things you want to say before we get to it? I do not. I'm happy to answer any questions. Okay. Any updates that are not in the package? Okay. Ms. Umstead, would you like to go to a motion? Yes, ma'am.

[01:20:04] I nominate Ms. Dorothy O'Brien to serve on the Economic Development Advisory Commission as recommended to the Board of Supervisors by the Economic Development Advisory Commission Executive Committee in the June 20, 2023 Board of Supervisors business meeting action item.

[01:20:24] The motion was made, and I don't, I think, was that you, Ms. Glass? Let me get that to Ms. Glass, because she was yelling and stuff, and that's way unlike Ms. Glass. she really was. Discussion on the motion, Ms. Umstead? I think everybody knows Ms. Dorothy or Dori O'Brien. She is the government liaison for ANOVA. She is active in the Chamber of Commerce, and I think she is up to take over as chair of the board in a couple cycles at

[01:21:02] the chamber of commerce so she is heavily involved in the community i think does a great job has a lot of integrity so i'm happy to support her thank you miss glass thank you madam chair i would have to agree with supervisor i'm starting what she said about ms o'brien dory was part of my team when I first started my term here as supervisor, and she had done just a fantastic job.

[01:21:38] She knows her stuff, and it's awesome that we see that she is moving on to better things on the Economic Development Advisory Commission.

[01:21:56] Thank you. Thank you. So remember, this is just a nomination tonight. There's not a vote. I want to say what I want to say really very carefully now, because I let me just say that I think I consider Doria O'Brien a friend and think she is a magnificent human being and will be very good in this job.

[01:22:13] So I will be supporting this motion. Having said that, I also want to say one other thing. We we we tend to recycle the same 50 names in Loudoun all the time. And I read for the applicants and they were absolutely astounding.

[01:22:28] And I remember when, you know, when I made the motion to put Bernard Mustafa, who later and is still chair of this committee, I got a lot of pushback because he wasn't known. In fact, I had a colleague say those words, I don't know him.

[01:22:46] It is okay, and this is a message to all the committees, committees, EDA, everybody else. It is okay to give other people chances. And this is not, this is nothing about Ms. O'Brien. She is fantastic and I will support this motion. But I also, you know, I want us in the county to get used to, you know, being comfortable with people we don't know yet.

[01:23:08] And if you were to read through these applications, there's one person in here who has a small business who is, she runs and has run for many, many years a practice of at-home nursing. She's been doing it for 25 years.

[01:23:25] She's a member of the Muslim community in the Adamson. I mean, I could go on. There are amazing, amazing applications and applicants in here. And so just in general, I'd like us to try, for all of our commission and committees to try to get comfortable with putting names forward that are not names we normally know.

[01:23:50] Having said that, I think Dora O'Brien is a magnificent person and will be magnificent in this world, and I will support her nomination. but I did want to at least put that out there. Anybody else? Would you like a closing, Ms. Umstead? No, ma'am. Thanks. All right. All in favor, please say aye.

[01:24:06] Any opposed? That motion will pass, 9-2-0. All right, so now we can go to, that name is in nominations, and now we can go to nominations for any other positions. If you have other nominations, please put your light on. Wow, look at all the lights today.

[01:24:22] Mr. Letourneau. Thank you. So I am a member of the OPEB Investment Committee, and the OPEB Investment Committee has asked me to nominate Jeffrey Magid for reappointment as the at-large representative to the OPEB Investment Committee. Thank you.

[01:24:39] Ms. Umstead. I would like to nominate Lauren Chernoff for the Leesburg seat on the Advisory Commission on Youth. Thank you. Mr. Buffington. That was not to get your attention.

[01:24:55] I just had to call. No, you weren't next anyway. Madam Chair, I nominate Clint Good as an at-large member of the Historic District Review Committee. Oh, gosh. Yes. Mr. Sains. Yeah, do the paper, I have to re-nominate Suha Subramanian as the Sterling District Representative on the Loudon Health Commission.

[01:25:13] We did it before, but I guess there was some paperwork issue or something. Oh, okay. All right. So those are the nominations that have been made, and we will approve those next meeting. Or not, but probably do next meeting. All right, we have one other action item that I think is probably going to take more than a half hour.

[01:25:35] So, you know, although it's about seven minutes early, we can start resolutions of which we only have one. And Mr. Letourneau, are we waiting for one more scout to walk in? He's not coming, so we're good. So it's just a two.

[01:25:50] So, Mr. Letourneau, how about you join me down front to do the resolutions for a couple of Eagle Scouts.

[01:26:13] Family here.

[01:26:28] They can certainly come down. So it's Rohan and all. And then I'm going to give bets to them. Not become Eagle Scouts without family with them. So come on. Come home. No, no, no. I mean, I'm proud of them. We'll take pictures.

[01:26:50] Thank you very much. So we have two Eagle Scouts from Troop 761 with us this evening for recognition.

[01:27:13] Rohan, which, Rohan, okay. And is it Allop? Allop. All right. So I'm just going to read a little bit about what each has accomplished as part of the presentation. Both, as I said, from Troop 761 have earned the rank of Eagle Scout.

[01:27:32] Allop has been scouting for 10 years and is a Brotherhood member in the Order of the Arrow, which is the highest honor society in scouts. He's attended, attained 33 merit badges, all while attending Freedom High School and the Academies of Loudoun. for MADA Cisco Networking, and he plans to attend George Mason University to study cybersecurity engineering, so maybe he'll come work for us someday.

[01:27:57] Alap also expects to receive his Information Systems Technology Network Career Studies Certificate from Northern Virginia Community College. He attained the BSA Miles Swim Award and the National Outdoor Camping Award during his time as a scout, as well as spending a week in Iceland with his troop in staffing summer camps, such as the T. Brady Saunders Camp for Scouts.

[01:28:17] For his Eagle Scout project, Elap took part in a collaborative effort to build a wooden boardwalk stretching over 600 feet over an old footpath at the Manassas Civil War battlefield. The boardwalk allows ease of access for hundreds of visitors who visit the battlefield each day as it intended to commemorate the battlefield's place in history and honor fallen soldiers.

[01:28:37] The boardwalk will help prevent the soil from eroding due to muddy and marshy conditions. Then, Rohan has been scouting for nine years and served as the senior patrol leader of his troop for 12 months, two terms. He attained 22 merit badges, all while attending Freedom High School in the Academies of Loudoun and taking part in extracurricular activities such as the National Honor Society, Computer Science Honor Society, Math Honor Society, Tri-M Music Honor Society, Science Olympiad, AI Club, Chess Club, All-Virginia Guitar. How did you have any time

[01:29:13] to sleep all virginia guitar ensemble and serving as a piano teacher and rohan helped streamline the troop advancement process while serving as a webmaster for his scouting troop and was awarded the messengers of peace award for his service for his eagle scout project rohan planted a flower bed and cleared and repaired cracks in the parking lot at a local hindu temple which took eight hours to execute over two days and employed the help of multiple scouts and adult volunteers so for both whereas being awarded the rank of Eagle Scout requires determination, perseverance, hard work, maturity, and integrity.

[01:29:49] Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors commends both of you for achieving the rank of Eagle Scout, which is scouting's highest honor and a culmination of years of service and dedication to the Boy Scouts of America. Congratulations. Would you just want to say a quick few words for us about what the experience has been like?

[01:30:12] It's been quite a few years. I learned a lot from Boy Scouts. I've learned how to do, I learned how to treat people better. I've learned how to just work and stuff. And yeah.

[01:30:29] Yeah, you pretty much said what I was going to say too. Yeah, I've learned a lot from Boy Scouts, and thank you for this honor. Just to say, are you both seniors?

[01:30:46] You graduate and you're going to Mason, and you're a junior. Congratulations to both of you. Very impressed. I'm going to take a picture now.

[01:30:53] Okay, the last action item we have is the work plan data center action plan.

[01:33:04] It's kind of been in response to the idea that Ms. Bricksman bought before us a couple of weeks back. So this may not take as long as I thought, actually. Ms. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, last action.

[01:33:22] Ms. I'm sorry, that's right, it's not the last one, but the one we have for now. Mr. Galeno, are we at the table? We're ready for when you are, sir. Thank you, Chair Randall. I don't have any updates to the item, so I'm happy to give a little bit of a verbal presentation, if desired, or just answer any questions.

[01:33:39] Do a real quick presentation, if you don't mind. So, at the May 2nd board meeting, the board passed a motion to reconsider the April 18th DPZ work plan, and as part of that revised motion, asked us to research the time, funding, and other things that would be necessary in order to begin a CPAM portion of the data center design standards and locations item that has been in the past few DPZ work plans.

[01:34:10] That whole project grew out of work that was done by TLUC that was then endorsed by the board that sought to remove the urban employment place type from the plan, as well as restrict data centers to specific place types in the plan.

[01:34:29] There would also be a corresponding zoning ordinance amendment to revise data center design and use standards and create zoning districts that would implement the CPAM's locational restrictions on data centers. We've worked with our on-call consultant to try to determine the cost and time that's necessary in order to do the CPAM.

[01:34:50] And as noted in the item, I had them just focus on the work of looking at the locations and not looking at any additional and broader policy work, even though that was staff's intention in the item that has been in the work plan thus far. From talking to Supervisor Briskman, that seemed to be her initial primary concern, and so that's what the focus has been.

[01:35:11] Overall, staff's recommendation is to not initiate this now because we do want to try to get the zoning ordinance rewrite done as quickly as possible. As I've noted repeatedly in front of the board, while we have a core team working on this, we have pulled people in at various times to do tasks to try to handle things and keep that moving forward as expeditiously as possible.

[01:35:32] Our community planning division has been key to that, but also we have experienced some defections, so to speak, in some cases where people have been promoted to other positions in the department. We also did have one recent resignation, so that division that was closer to fully staffed is now effectively about half-staffed, and that would be the one that, even though there would be a consultant doing the work, there would be a staff from that division handling the liaison, so to speak, portion of overseeing that project and ensuring that the consultant is ultimately doing the work.

[01:36:04] In addition to that, the other big outstanding thing that we would need to know from the board, because this was never clearly defined at T-Locker when the board endorsed that option, is where do we draw the line on what locations we're looking at? Is it just for applications that already have site plans, that they are under review for site plans, that they have legislative applications in, or even so far as to anyone that's a data center entity that's already purchased land, even if they've not taken another affirmative action beyond that?

[01:36:37] So that, I think, would be a lengthy discussion in and of itself, and it's, again, part of the reason why our recommendation overall is just to defer this after we adopt the rewrite in the fall. Okay. I think we can go straight to a motion, whatever the motion might be. I think we can go straight to a motion. Ms. Brixman?

[01:36:58] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, staff, for bringing this back to us, and I'll be making the alternative motion. i move the board of supervisors amend the department of planning and zoning work plan to include a separate data a separate data center locations comprehensive plan amendment to update the place type maps of the 2019 general plan establish the appropriate locations for data centers within loudon county including the revision of any other maps policies or text necessary to implement this goal and authorize ninety thousand dollars from the department of

[01:37:33] planning and zoning fy 23 operating budget be used for this purpose thank you motions made and second by mr saenz discussion on the motion mr brixman thank you madam chair um so i you know i empathize with with staff hopefully you guys are interviewing people um and trying to hire on more people the ultimate goal of this was to alleviate some of the work and at least move the ball forward on this project and get the mapping in place, which would be very similar to what we're living with right now. We have a general plan in place, which is basically the mapping of the county, but not

[01:38:11] zoning. My staff and I analyzed this and noticed that if we are able to be successful with having the consultant at least do the mapping in the CPAM part, we could accelerate it by as much as a year. By then, the zoning ordinance rewrite will be adopted, and then we can go back and do any other zoning changes we need to do for the mapping. As far as determining which parcels we would be looking at, I feel like we kind of have that layered already from the map that we got from economic development. I think that we can layer that already. Maybe it's some work that TLUC

[01:38:45] could do to identify the issues that you just raised. But I think that this is really important. I think it's important to our constituents that we show them that we are listening to them and hearing their concerns about the plethora of data centers in the county. You know, they have been wonderful. They contribute a lot to our economy. They employ a lot of people. They help train folks. They do programs in our schools and at the colleges, but we absolutely have to think about

[01:39:19] diversifying our economy, and this is one move toward that. It also would eventually offer more certainty to the data center community because as long as this is hanging out here they're not sure and they could be rushing in site plans and rushing in applications because they don't know what's going to happen and so i think this gets us a step closer to that certainty which i think the entire community wants our constituents the business community the data center community so i hope that my colleagues can agree and support thank you madam chair

[01:39:56] Thank you, Ms. Brixman. I think I saw Mr. Turner first. Madam Chair, can I ask counsel a question? Absolutely. Mr. Rogers, what are the implications if someone has bought a parcel of land, it allows data centers to be built on that land, and we subsequently rezone that land to prohibit data centers?

[01:40:15] In order to have a vested right, there needs to be a significant governmental act of approval of that development. The purchase of the land and the expectation is not enough. So if they came in and got site plan approval, that would be sufficient.

[01:40:32] Without that, they would not have a vested right to build. Okay, so some trigger mechanism beyond just ownership of the land? Yes, sir. Okay. My question to Mr. Galindo is, would a revised map that changed the current comprehensive plan to reflect the board's desires about where a data center should and shouldn't go have any legal implications for the data center community absent a corollary zoning ordinance to back up the plan?

[01:41:11] Or is that any different than what we have right now? It would not take away any of their land use rights. It would show the county's intention in whether or not we want the data center to be there. So it may allow staff recommendation of approval if we switched to a place type but now support that, any off chance that one was removed, it would lead to a staff recommendation of denial more than likely.

[01:41:36] What do you think the likelihood is that if we went parallel with the zoning ordinance rewrite, as we are doing right now, and then hired the consultant to rewrite the map to reflect our desires for data centers, that something would happen within the zoning ordinance rewrite that would alter the consultants work on the likely map outcome what's what's the chances and this is a subjective guess but is there a likelihood or not a likelihood that we would end up in more cross purposes if they're proceeding

[01:42:12] at parallel but not coordinated tracks if the board is is okay with the CPAM just focusing on the locations and therefore the mapping I don't believe there's anything under the rewrite as currently constituted that would really have a direct effect on that the the larger project that we were talking about would also look at environmental standards design standards things of that nature some of which is in the rewrite and some of which we had anticipated addressing further in a larger project but I don't think there's gonna be any direct okay overlap really quickly in 15 seconds I really

[01:42:52] appreciate the sentiment the supervisor Brisbane shown here I've had the back of my mind for the last six to nine months zoning ordinance rewrite is number one priority. I don't want anything to take away from the zoning ordinance rewrite, and I don't know that the gain from this is worth distracting us from the zoning ordinance rewrite.

[01:43:07] Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Turner. Ms. Umstead. Thank you, Madam Chair. Dan, do you feel your staff has the bandwidth to manage a consultant on this project? Or let me put it a different way. Do you think having to dedicate staff resources to managing this consultant and contract would remove those staff resources from

[01:43:44] working on the zoning ordinance rewrite? With where that particular vision stands today, they are already having difficulty not just with helping with the rewrite, just with keeping up with basic referrals and other required legislative actions. So if nothing were to change, I'm not entirely convinced right now that they would have capacity to further help out on the rewrite itself but the further that division gets behind and things it just kind of has effects that cascade through all of the other projects we work on to some degree just because we are trying our best to keep up with everything okay and please

[01:44:19] I appreciate very much all the hard work you and and your staff is doing so thank you thank you thank you mr. Letourneau thank you so I think the idea with this item was to sort of jump start a portion of the process that will need to happen as part of the zoning ordinance work on this in terms of the mapping exercise so i guess i'm i'm not quite understanding why this would really slow anything down i mean this has to happen anyway right it does yes so wouldn't we just sort of be asking a third party to accelerate

[01:44:59] it while we're doing all this other stuff so that it's ready for us when you know we're not waiting for that when we complete the zoning ordinance rewrite so there may be elements of it that a third party can accelerate. The third party would not be in place more than likely for the, so one thing I did mention that I laid out in the item is that even with, if you approve a motion tonight to begin this, we will come back with a more detailed work plan for what that would take as we typically do for other conferences. Probably in September? More than likely, yes. Okay. So having the discussion about where we draw those lines, it would then be county staff that's still working

[01:45:36] on putting that data together together to then hand over to the consultant them doing the mapping or us it may save us a little bit of time but for the overall timeline I put in there I only anticipate that the mapping analysis and completion and discussion with industry that might only be three months the most of that overall timeline is going to the commission for hearing for a second hearing because they're going to have to do the same things you do I just went through with talking with Ms. Sidner earlier, then coming to the board.

[01:46:08] It's all going to depend on if both bodies take action at that first public hearing, it's much quicker. If someone needs a second work session or business meeting or whatever it may be, that just extends the timeline. It means we don't gain anything by doing this. Potentially. If that happens, yeah.

[01:46:24] I mean, I think I get what you're saying, and I don't want to, you know, divert staff, although I don't necessarily quite feel the urgency on the zoning ordinance we write. I feel urgency, but I also want to make sure we get it right and i think we need to be a little bit more methodical about about it at this point because there were a lot of i think what's coming to us is a lot of open issues but on this i think what we're trying to do is send a signal of where we're going and you know i don't know a way to do that that doesn't require us waiting and it wouldn't be such an urgent issue if we didn't have such a rush of applications coming and such you know this this the fact that we're talking about

[01:47:04] it has now created pressure. So I get what you're saying. I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. On the other hand, I sort of, you know, I think it may be useful for the board to take a step toward accomplishing something and having the map done sooner, if for no other reason than it kind of sends a message. So I'm working through that. I'm going to listen to the rest of my colleagues. Mr. Kirshner? Yeah, I heard everyone's comments. Obviously, it doesn't affect my district as well I'm just I think we're moving in the direction that the that you know T look has sent this up you guys have brought this to us I don't want to put extra stress on our staff especially as we're concentrating on the zoning

[01:47:42] rewrite I'm a little I mean I know it's only thought $90,000 but $90,000 is $90,000 and I think we can just pause and wait and I think everyone has a level of urgency here but we have to chuck kind of take things in order so I don't know if I support the motion and it's the second motion thanks mr. scenes Thank you, Madam Chair. I just feel differently than my colleague who just spoke. I think the $90,000, it's worth it to bring in a contractor to get this work done. We will still have a staff person supervising the work and taking some of that, and the third person will take some of the load off of staff to move this initiative forward.

[01:48:21] This is definitely something that needs to be addressed and looked at and talked about and send a signal. And we're doing all that with this motion. In my personal opinion, I believe so, and it's definitely something that needs to be done because if you look at our agenda, we're getting one application after another application after another application, reading it in the papers where deals are being made, things are not being discussed above water here and in private, And we find out about things later on in articles that we were told were different circumstances.

[01:48:57] So I think this will be a good signal to those folks and jumpstart this process. So I'll be supporting the motion. Thank you. I very much support it and love the intent of what Ms. Brixman was trying to do.

[01:49:15] And I completely understand and agree with why she was trying to do it. But the truth is, two folks. one I do see an urgency with the comp plan and for a couple I mean for the zoning ordinance rewrite for a couple of reasons one much of this board was here when the comp plan is done and zoning underlies the comp plan we don't we have no idea who'll be sitting on this day as if we don't get this content plan done secondly we have a key staff member who's been so important in both the zoning and both the comp plan and the zoning ordinance rewrite who will not be here anymore. And so it's important for that reason also. And three, in some ways, I feel like it's

[01:49:53] kind of passing the buck a little bit if this board doesn't get the Zoni Norton's rewrite done. I think if we don't get it done this year, probably won't get it done for two more years because it's going to be so much catch up than a new board would have to do when new staff would have to do. So I do feel some urgency to do it. Secondly, our staff works to the edge of their capacity all the time they just do so when staff tells me we're at our limit I have to hear them because they don't say that lightly usually the response is we'll figure it out we'll get it done we'll do it and you come in here on the weekend like I often do and there's staff in the building

[01:50:29] or you walk out of here at nine o'clock at night and there's staff walking out with you they always try to get it done the fact that they're saying actually saying to us we don't have capacity is something I think we absolutely have to hear them say, that they don't have capacity.

[01:50:45] And the same staff that we say will just be overseeing it is the staff that's working on the zoning and the rewrite. It's the same people. And so we're not creating more staff right now. And I think if they thought it was going to give them more capacity or make it easier for them, they would be cheering this and saying, please, please, please do it.

[01:51:04] The fact that they are saying this will not make it easier for them, I can't substitute my judgment for them as they do this job. So I was hoping this would come back and say, absolutely, go for it. I think, Ms. Bricksman, you made a great motion for fantastic reasons.

[01:51:23] And I am as frustrated as I could be by a data center community that I don't believe is, I can say, are being good neighbors anymore. I think that they used to be really good neighbors, and I'm not able to say that anymore. So I am very frustrated and concerned about what we're seeing in the data center industry and how that's starting to shape out.

[01:51:45] Overburdening our staff, though, is not the answer either. And so I appreciate what you were trying to do, and I appreciate your rationale, but I'm going to vote against this motion, Ms. Bricksman. Would you like a closing? Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.

[01:51:58] I am equally concerned about getting the zoning ordinance rewrite completed, but at this point, this is the higher priority for me, is getting this mapping done and getting this moving forward, because the repercussions of not doing this, the repercussions of not working on this and doing this are going to impact this county for decades.

[01:52:35] we really really need to do this and you know i don't think that we should let the perfect be the enemy of the good i think that staff is being hired and honestly if it were to actually delay the zoning ordinance rewrite a little bit i think i'm okay with that at this point in time with everything that's been happening in 2023 with the applications coming forward and all the things that my colleague, Vice Chair Sainz, just mentioned.

[01:53:13] I think that we're going to be sorry if we don't move the ball forward in what could accelerate this project for, it could accelerate it by a year. Thank you. Okay, motion was made by Supervisor Brixman and seconded by Supervisor Sainz.

[01:53:33] All in favor, please say aye. Opposed? Will the ayes raise your hand, please? I'm not sure where that was. One, two, three, four. That motion will fail. Oh, no, that motion will pass. The motion will pass, 5-4, with Ms. Umstead, Kirshner, Chair Randall, and Mr. Buckleton voting against the motion.

[01:53:52] The motion will pass. Thank you, Mr. Galena. We appreciate it. Supervisors, we have 10 minutes until we start public comments, and so I think what we could do is go to, I'm sorry, yeah, we can go to board comments before we start public comments.

[01:54:08] We can just about finish everything before we go to closed session. So, board comments. So, everyone get your board comment head on. That's where we're going right now. Board comments. Ms. Glass. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[01:54:37] I guess the only comment, oh, I don't have, oh, I do have some disclosures. I'm just looking. On June 7th, 8th, and 9th, my staff met with Colleen Gillis of Cooley to discuss the Opaden and Interra Sky ZRTDs.

[01:54:54] On Friday, June 16th, my staff spoke with Matt Holbrook of St. John's Properties to discuss the Ashburn Crossing Parcel. On Tuesday, June 20th, my staff met with Tony Calabrese of DLA Piper to discuss the Broad Run Business Park ZRTD.

[01:55:12] And I know Chair Randall is going to speak on the trip to Ghana. No, no, no. I'm just going to speak on my experiences. Go forward on your experiences. I know I'm not, talk about my experiences, but you're going to talk about like the details of things that we've done.

[01:55:32] But I wanted to talk on my experience being there. It was, for me, it was surreal. It was, I know it was a business trip, but as a person of African heritage and to know that my heritage is Ghanaian and to be there and see people that reminded me of my uncles and my

[01:56:06] cousins. It was an awesome day. It was an awesome week. I kind of don't have words for it.

[01:56:23] It took me aback. I think after we went to the, it was after the sister signing and we had gone to a place and it was up, we were on the top level and I could see, you know, across the land in the ocean.

[01:56:51] And, you know, I had wondered where my ancestors came from. and it was you know I was just thinking you know how do they live and I know that I love the ocean and I just thought that maybe they were a people that lived near the ocean and so um you know I think that brought me to tears and um I you know when people saw me they were you know they didn't

[01:57:26] know how to respond but there was one person that came up and gave me a hug because I think they realized, you know, how I was feeling at that time. That's all I have to say. It was a wonderful experience. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ms. Glass. Mr. Kirsten. Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have any mandatory disclosures. Just a couple of matters of news from Catoctin. The Waterford Foundation is making progress on their mill stabilization project. The historic Hearst Farm

[01:58:03] is being reconstructed off-site and the plan to install it at the end of the month. They've already repaired the attic floor and painted the roof. If all goes well, the entire reconstruction will be done later this summer, so we'll be ready for Waterford Fair. On June 10th, the town of Hillsboro became an official Appalachian Trail community. I had the opportunity to attend that and read the resolution and speak to the group there who had gathered along with Supervisor Buffington. It was great. And then on June 14th, the town of Lovett'sville celebrated Flag Day as the Veterans

[01:58:39] Memorial in the town square. They also held a tribute for long-term resident Jack John R. Burden Sr., who passed away this February. In addition to being a long-term and highly engaged Lovett'sville resident, Lieutenant Colonel Burden served for 20 years in the United States Army, including two tours in Vietnam as an Army aviator. He ultimately retired as a Master Army aviator with awards that included the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Bronze Star Medal with Oak Leaf Cluster, and the Air Medal with 37 Oak Leaf Clusters. And, Madam Chair, that's the news from Contoctin. Thank you, sir.

[01:59:15] Thank you very much. Such a happy, happy newscaster. I try to please. Ms. Bricksman? Thank you, Madam Chair. By way of disclosures, I met with Michael Capretti on June 15th. We discussed FIC and the new roads proposals for the CIF. I attended several graduations recently, and these graduations were organized and operated without a hitch. It was very, very impressive.

[01:59:51] And the last graduation I went to was my son's at Dominion High School. So I would like to say on the record, Madam Chair, that Jacob Richard Briskman is a graduate of Dominion High School 2023. Both of my children have gone through public school starting in first and kindergarten.

[02:00:15] And the public school experience for us has been phenomenal in Loudoun County. My kids are well-rounded. They are respected. Their opinions matter.

[02:00:32] They had all sorts of opportunities to do a plethora of things that aligned with their interests. I think they're empathetic human beings, and I'm just really proud of them, and I'm proud of our school system.

[02:00:51] By way of regional updates, the Metro Washington Council of Governments meeting was mostly about transportation in the region, and it included a visit to Union Station. Also, last week, I think it was last week or last weekend, I had the privilege to make some opening remarks at Race Amity Day at the Baha'i Center in Sterling.

[02:01:11] Race Amity Day recognizes that our nation is comprised of multicultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-racial peoples, and that friendship, collegiality, civility, respect, kindness, and kindness are shared values. This is our country and our county.

[02:01:29] Our county now, as all of us know up here, has grown by 35%, so we have become much more diverse. We have 32% of Loudouners that speak a language other than English at home. We have 25% of Loudouners who were born somewhere besides the U.S., and 46% of Loudouners are AAPI, African American, or Hispanic.

[02:01:54] So just those statistics should tell us that it's more important than ever that we govern, educate, and interact with our fellow citizens with the foundation of amity, or friendship. Because friendship, amity, is fatal to prejudice.

[02:02:19] I will be hosting a community dialogue to counter hate with NAACP and the ADL of Washington, D.C. on the 28th of June at the library. If anyone would like to join us, you're more than welcome. I believe it's starting at 7 o'clock. Lastly, Madam Chair, so far this year, we have had 318 mass shootings, 20,031 total gun deaths, 8,745 were homicide, 11,286 were suicide.

[02:02:46] This includes 133 children under the age of 11, and 711 between the ages of 12 and 17. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ms. Bricksman. Congratulations on your son's graduation. I imagine it was so cool to be on stage as your son walked across stage.

[02:03:05] I meant to say he's going to JMU. Go Dukes. Mr. Hemstreet is shaking his head. Ms. Umstead. Thank you, Madam Chair. I have one disclosure.

[02:03:22] on june 15th i had a meeting about loud and west with mark baker david buxbaum uh-huh supervisor kirschner and his staff and that's all i've got thank you thank you mr letourneau water will wait um okay i wanted to start by congratulating stone ridge on 20 years the board passed a resolution which i presented um but we had a really great it was the first time they really tried to do kind of a community festival and it was a huge success it had very high attendance and what was

[02:03:58] really cool was the original development team from over 20 years ago came you know one really nice thing we work with a lot of different developers but van meter companies holds their properties and so the same folks have been involved in the development of that community and still you know one representative still serves on the HOA board all these years later so had a chance to meet with them and talk a little bit about how that project came to be they actually have another section that they're bringing to us they have an application that we've been doing some we'll say negotiating on recently but the board will be seeing that probably later this year but that

[02:04:37] was a really cool community event congratulations to the Stone Ridge homeowners Association who really pulled off a great day for the community did also want to mention um kind of in the regional updates category um f if you are bored and are checking your phone up here you'll see news about metros hey i mean let's let's be real um you'll see news about metros fiscal cliff uh which came out this evening um there's been some alerts uh from different uh tv stations as well as washington post so on thursday uh the finance committee of the Metro board, which I chair, will be doing a presentation about the fiscal cliff. These are

[02:05:16] really the numbers that everybody's been asking us for, exactly what it is and exactly what will happen if we don't fund it. And so that presentation has now gone live in our board packets. I will, I'm not going to go into the whole thing tonight. I'll just say that we have to get help from the outside. It is not a problem that Metro can solve itself. We know that we have to do our share and tighten our belts. And we're doing that. But the scope and scale of the problem is such that there are really, really significant impacts to service if we don't solve this in the next

[02:05:52] fiscal year. And, you know, it would not be a short-term issue. It is a long-term issue from a financial standpoint. But if we reach the point where we have to make reductions in our service levels, it means that we've had to lay off a lot of workers. And doing that in this environment is not something you can easily pivot from. It's not like you can just turn around and staff back up.

[02:06:14] It becomes almost impossible. So we're going to need a lot of help. I've had a lot of discussions with different folks in the business community around Northern Virginia, including here in Loudoun, who I think are eager to jump in and assist in this discussion. But kind of all the facts and figures are coming out this week. I'm happy to answer questions anybody has offline and get into some of the details about service level impacts and those kinds of things. So that will be Thursday's Metro Board meeting. And as I said, we went live with the packets and brief media

[02:06:52] this week. So those stories are just coming out today. And that is all I have for this evening. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Mr. Turner. Thank you, Madam Chair. On Thursday, June 8th, my staff and I met with Aaron Swisholm from Walsh Kalushie, Ron Meyer from RMA LLC, Joe Livesey from SDC Capital Partners, as well as Tracy Bainard from McGuire Woods Consulting to discuss the application for Belmont Innovation Campus.

[02:07:21] On Friday, June 9th, my staff and I met with Denise Harriver, Adam Steiner, Roy Barnett from Van Meter Companies to discuss the application for Broadland Section 104. On Thursday, June 15th, my staff and I met with Packy Crown from Bowman Consulting, Don Knudsen from Knudsen Companies, Tushar Awar from Grove Slate, as well as Sasha Brower, and Matt Leslie from Walsh Kalushi to discuss the application for Goose Creek Village West.

[02:07:46] That's all I have. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Buffington. Thank you, Madam Chair. No required disclosures, and I'll save my comments. Thank you. Mr. Seth, everybody? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Mr. Sains. Thank you. My staff and I met with the representatives for the Interior and OPED ZRTD application on June 7th.

[02:08:08] And I also took the trip to Ghana, and I felt that the trip was honored and humbled to do so. The Ghanaians are great people. had engaging conversations. I believe we met some good buddy and his economic development team did a great job in their presentations. We had some fruitful conversations, and I believe that we'll continue to have some good conversations that potentially will lead to some business

[02:08:40] developments. And I think for me, one of the days we went on, was it Wednesday, we went to the orthopedic training center and that was probably the most impactful visit I've had in a long time the staff there you can tell truly care about the work that they're doing they treat these children and individuals as if they're their own their own children or family members and the orthopedic training center their whole premise is to help those who are in need you know recovery they might be

[02:09:15] missing a limb or they had to uh cerebral palsy or reconfigure uh some bones so there you know you have children as young as i think the youngest was probably three or four and they have adults there as well they could be there anywhere from a month to three months to six months at a time at this facility getting treatment getting retrained on how to use uh the the new prosthetic and helping them to be able to survive and live in the world.

[02:09:47] But they are truly doing the Lord's work, as I said, and I said that repeatedly on the trip. At one point, we went to the Sarapose section of the campus, and there's just some beautiful children there.

[02:10:03] And despite having severe ailments, I'm not going to use the D word, severe ailments, these children, again, from the care from their teachers and aides, were able, for example, one young man was able to, who can't speak verbally, hands are, I guess, lack of a better word, clutched, very much not mobile, had to use his feet, but was able to use his feet and his training to put an alphabet puzzle together, and was putting it together quite quite fast and getting it right um and and just seeing that i had to

[02:10:42] remove myself for a minute to gather gather myself because i was just so overcome with emotion from seeing that and again because that's all about the care that's being provided at the center and by the teacher so um you know we have a local gentleman by the name of kobe who is Kobe Okum who has a non-profit the Ghanaian Impact Project that their sole purpose is to help raise funds for the Orthopedic Training Center so I encourage everybody in Loudoun County and wherever else to take a visit to their website and maybe you'll be so kind to help with their efforts but the trip was very

[02:11:21] impactful, fruitful our host the mayor and his team from Tema were very hospitable, and we look forward to working with them and having a lasting impact with them because, as we said during the trip as well, we are now officially family, and you'll be hearing a lot of good things coming from the sister city agreement.

[02:11:45] So thank you. And with that, that is it. Thank you. I'm going to talk about Ghana a little while, too, but I first want to tell the story that Mr. Sains and Ms. Glass. So when you're in another country, you're supposed to be really careful about how you eat.

[02:12:02] Because our systems just are not their systems, right? You're just not used to it. And so even drinking the water, don't drink the water. Don't eat food that is maybe washed in that, like salads and things like that. So I am being, we went to the school, and I mean, beautiful children at the school, and they had home ec projects of food.

[02:12:27] And so I am being super careful not to eat, you know, not to eat the wrong foods because I just don't want to get sick. So I, like, ate, like, a couple of pieces of avocado, and I'm just being really careful. And I turn around, and Mr. Sains is eating the crab. Oh, crap.

[02:12:44] A box. And I'm like, of all the foods we probably shouldn't be eating is some seafood that I've been sitting there for gosh long. I was like, you're going to get so sick. And he was tearing it up. And then I turned around, and Ms. Glass had a whole plate of God knows what she was eating.

[02:13:03] And I'm like, people, people, people, there are rules. And as it turns out, he did not get sick at all. I have a picture of Mr. Sains tearing up that little box crab. It's just hilarious. So it really was. God was watching you because by all rights, you should have gotten so sick.

[02:13:25] The whole time in Ghana was fairly incredible, and I want to say again, Buddy Reiser and Bob McCuller did an incredible job of putting meetings together in agricultural and manufacturing and tourism that were really very profitable meetings and just a great job.

[02:13:47] And so when we go on these meetings, on these trips, yes, we do have a good time and we meet interested people, but really the goal is to bring back business, and we do believe this will be very successful in doing that. I just wanted to, because a little bit that I learned about Ghana, especially their school system, I thought it was really interesting that every school in Ghana is a public school, even if they're a religious school.

[02:14:14] And so I noticed that the school we were at, Shemul High School, there was a lot of praying in Jesus' name. And I asked the mayor, well, what if the kids are Muslim? He said, well, then they go to the Muslim school, and they're all public schools. And so at the Muslim school, somebody's praying with and for these kids, the teaching staff, in whatever faith that they are.

[02:14:35] Interesting. The schools are all surrounded by a wall with, like, a playground area internal. They have had no school shootings, and they have very few guns, just in general, don't have very few guns in Ghana. I'm not talking about any other part of the continent, but Ghana.

[02:14:53] The students, the ones that had made it to high school, and not every student will make it to the high school, but the ones that made it there, it was clear that they really valued being there. They were incredibly, incredibly disciplined, 1,500 kids, incredibly courteous.

[02:15:10] I was very pleased to have a chance to address the entire student body of 1,500 children at Shamu High School. And so that was just fabulous. Colby Ocum, the work you're doing in the Ghana Impact Project is life-changing, and do not stop doing it.

[02:15:28] We will keep going back there. A lot of times when kids are born in Africa, because they don't have the health care, and they may not have great birth control, and so the families have lots of children. and often can't take care of them. So if they have one that is born with severe, differing abilities, then the family often just can't take care of them.

[02:15:48] So the OTC is where they might go. Sometimes they literally just get dropped off to receive prosthetics, to learn how to eat. Oh, I mean, just this, everything. It's just an incredible place. I really, and I'm not joking about wanting to look at doing a small chocolate manufacturing place here in Loudoun.

[02:16:09] And when we went to Bayoko Chocolates, I was surprised at how little space is needed. Depending on where in what's called the bean-to-bar process, we would receive, I now have all these chocolate words, we would receive roasted chocolate nibs in the bean-to-bar process.

[02:16:29] So depending on where that happens, then from that point on is how you smooth the chocolate, you, you know, if you want to have, how you infuse the chocolate, whatever you want to infuse it in. So bean-to-bar is just that, going from a cocoa bean to the actual candy.

[02:16:47] And Ghana has some of the most and the highest quality cocoa beans in the world, which is why we were there looking at the bean-to-bar process. If you look at my Facebook page, my Chair Randall page, I have a whole post and lots of pictures to share. And thanks for listening. Supervisors, we don't have anyone in the room who has signed up for public comments, so let me just ask once, twice.

[02:17:13] We do have some. I don't have you down yet, ma'am. Just give me one second, okay? I don't have any paper on you yet. Thank you very much. We have with us one speaker, Lynn Wright, who wants to talk about zoning. Ma'am, we're ready when you are. You can go to either one. Yes, ma'am.

[02:17:37] And you have two and a half minutes. Thank you for coming in. No, ma'am, no, ma'am. At the podium? At the podium only because you can watch your time on the podium. So no matter how much time you have left. So we're ready when you are. Welcome to the boardroom. Thank you. I wanted to make the Board of Supervisors aware of a situation that is a result of a grievous zoning error in my community.

[02:18:01] I live on Gleadsville Road. I live next door to a three-house compound, which is hoping to operate as rehabilitation centers, mental health rehabilitation centers, inpatient. It's a congregate use, but nobody seems to want to understand that, that the three are all operating using the same resources.

[02:18:25] is. So Monday morning at 1115, someone from one of the operable homes, there's one permit was issued, a zoning permit was issued in December, I believe, or January, and one was just issued for the second house about three weeks ago. Third house is still pending. Someone from one of the homes walked across my field next door to, right past, a farmless ordinary, which is a non-profit that operates on my property with individuals.

[02:18:58] They hire individuals with intellectual and developmental delays. This person, this disoriented young man, walked right through my field, past these growers to access Gleadsville Road, which is a small two-lane country road, narrow.

[02:19:15] He was walking down the middle of Gleadsville Road in the rain with a backpack and no shoes. One of my neighbors pulled over to ask me if he needed help. He indicated he needed a ride into town. He was extremely agitated, disoriented, somewhat incoherent, and said that he was from the rehabilitation center. We were not able to confirm that. And he was dropped off and that he didn't like the program they were putting him through, and he was leaving. He was dropped off at a gas station in town. The police were called, Leesburg police were called to see if they could, you know, perhaps go and assist him.

[02:19:54] We don't believe anything was done or he had already left by the time they got there. The sheriff's department was called because Leedsville Road is under the sheriff's purview. His jurisdiction, they were made aware of this incident. The young man put himself in danger.

[02:20:10] He put potentially any neighbors, any lawns he walked through, houses he went by into danger. Why is this being allowed to happen in our neighborhood? Would you let this happen in your neighborhoods? Please rescind those permits.

[02:20:25] It is not the appropriate place for this place. Ma'am, thank you. Your time is up. We don't speak back when people come speak, but what I, we, Mr. Kirshner and I know this issue well, and we do have answers.

[02:20:42] If you don't mind, I'd like to give this back to the clerk. If you don't mind putting your contact information on here for us, I would appreciate that, okay? Thank you. There are no more speakers. Supervisors, before we read into closed session, because all we have left is two closed... Well, we have the items after the closed session.

[02:20:59] Yes. He's not here. Is there anybody else who wants to speak? Okay, thank you. Supervisors, before we read into closed session, because we're going to do two closed sessions together, so let's go on and take a 10-minute break, come back and read into both closed sessions.

[02:21:18] We're on break.

[02:32:35] Sounded not great.

[02:37:26] All right, ready?

[02:37:36] I'm going to miss you so much. All right, here we go. okay supervisors we're going to read into both closed sessions and have dinner while we're doing the closed sessions we will do closed session number two first but we're going to read into both so the order you read them in does not really matter mr. sayings i move that the board of supervisors recess this public meeting and enter into closed session pursuant to section 2.2 dash

[02:38:10] 3711 a8 and a29 to consult with legal counsel and staff pertaining to the negotiation of an agreement pertaining to the Riviana, Rivana, excuse me, at an innovation station development involving the expenditure of public funds where discussion and open session would adversely affect the bargaining position of the county.

[02:38:32] Motions made and seconded by Ms. Brixman. Discussion on the motion? Seeing none, aren't people to say aye? Aye. Any opposed? That motion will pass 9-0. We are in close. I didn't write the second one. I'm sorry. I thought you did both at once. I move that the Board of Supervisors recessed this public meeting and entered the closed session pursuant to section 2.2-3711 A8 of the Code of Virginia to consult with legal counsel employed or retained by the public body regarding the Route 28 tax district zoning conversion process and specific legal matter requiring the provision of legal advice by such counsel.

[02:39:07] Seconded by Ms. Bricksman again. Discussion on the motion. Seeing none, I'll be able to say aye. Any opposed? That motion will pass 9-0. We are in closed session.

[03:33:57] What's going on versus voice?

[04:10:27] Thank you. All right. We are back. Mr. Sainz, would you please read us out of both closed sessions at the same time? My pleasure. I move that the closed session be adjourned, that the Board of Supervisors reconvene its public meeting, that the minutes of the public meeting should reflect that no form of action was taken in closed session one or two, and further move that resolution certifying the closed session be adopted and reflected in the minutes of this public meeting.

[04:10:53] Motion is made second by Supervisor Bricksman. Discussion on the motion. Seeing none, will everybody please affirm Mr. Letourneau. I affirm. Affirm. Affirmed. Affirm. And I affirm as well. All in favor, please say aye.

[04:11:08] Aye. Any opposed? That motion will pass 9 to 0. We have, out of that closed session, motions on items, I think it was 13, 13 and 14. Is that what it is? Ms. Glass, I do believe both of these are in your district.

[04:11:28] Would you like to make any motions, ma'am? Yes, Madam Chair. I move that the Board of Supervisors approve ZRTD-2022-0004 Interra Sky Transdullis subject to the proffer statement dated June 14, 2023, Based on the findings of approval provided as attachment one and two to the June 20th, 2023 Board of Supervisors business meeting action item.

[04:11:56] Second. Motion made taken by Supervisor Umstop. Discussion on the motion. Ms. Glass. Thank you, Madam Chair. I know that there has, you know, we've been hearing discussion about our ZRTDs.

[04:12:14] and I know that this parcel will be probably developed as a data center. I hope that the applicant will continue to understand that they are located near and within a residential and commercial community and that a large data center should strive to be a good neighbor.

[04:12:36] I am satisfied with the profits that were able to be negotiated and know that they help address some of the concerns with data centers in this part of Sterling. That's it, Madam Chair. Thank you. Anybody else discussion on the motion?

[04:12:55] Seeing none, all in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? That motion will pass 7-2 with Mr. Sains and Ms. Brixman voting against the motion. Ms. Glass, would you like to make another motion? Yes, Madam Chair. I move that the Board of Supervisors approve ZRTD-2022-0005 Lopadan Investment Company, Subject to the proffer statement dated, stated June 14th, 2023, and based on the findings of approval provided as attachments one and two to the June 20th, 2023 Board of Supervisors business meeting action item.

[04:13:34] Second. Motion's made. Motion's made. May the Sigma Supervisor Umstead, I really cannot stand Tony Buffington. I really cannot stand. My, how you've slipped, Tony, since the state of the county.

[04:14:21] I will let my comments from the previous CRTD speak for this application as well. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. All of you, please say aye. Opposed? That motion will also pass 7-2 with Mr. Sains and Ms. Bricksburg voting against the motion. Is there anything else before the board at this moment?

[04:14:41] My last comment before I hit the gavel is tonight is primary night, and no matter who wins tonight, I will say that we live in a nation that allows for free and fair elections, and we allow for transfer of power, no matter how that goes, to normally be without violence.

[04:15:05] It is a blessing to be able to have elections and have free and fair elections. Congratulations to everybody who ran, and congratulations to people who win tonight. And that is all I have. We are adjourned. Thank you.

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