Coraggio Consulting
Loudoun County Board of Supervisors, Public Hearing, Wednesday, June 11, 2025

Date: Wednesday, June 11, 2025
Place: Board Room, First Floor, Government Center, 1 Harrison Street SE, Leesburg, Virginia
Length: 5h 21m (video)
Official meeting video (county, Granicus): https://loudoun.granicus.com/player/clip/7963
Meeting page: https://loudoun.granicus.com/player/clip/7963

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-11. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:03:06] good evening staff, good evening supervisors, and good evening Loudoun. I'd like to call to order the June 11th Loudoun County Board of Supervisors Public Hearing and the Joint Board of Supervisors and VDOT Public Hearing. This room has a hearing loop. If you need hearing assistance, please switch your hearing aid to the telecom mode. If you need a headset, we have those available as well.

[00:03:25] Please see the clerk to request one. Would everybody please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[00:03:46] Okay, as a reminder to our members of the public addressing the board this evening, you may only register to speak on matters that have been advertised for this public hearing. Due to the broadcast delay, any member of the public who are not in the boardroom wishing to address the boards on item 2, 4, and 5, which are on the consolidated agenda, Please call the number that you see scrolling across your screen at this time.

[00:04:13] If you registered to speak, you will be allotted two and a half minutes. That's the time that the Board of Supervisors has agreed on and our rules of order. And we don't change that meeting to meeting based on how many or how few people are in the room. It's always two and a half minutes in the boardroom.

[00:04:31] The timer on the podium will indicate your remaining time. When your time has expired, please yield the floor to the next speaker. If you're providing your comments via phone, I'm going to ask that you use your own stopwatch. And that is because if you can't see the timer and I'm timing you, if I stop you at two minutes, it's going to break your flow.

[00:04:50] But if you keep your own stopwatch, you can know how much time you have left because I will stop you at two and a half minutes. And so if you don't mind keeping your own time, we would appreciate that. When taking public input items or inputs, I would first ask if there's anyone in the boardroom wishing to speak.

[00:05:06] I would then go to the moderator, who this evening is Kaylee, and ask if there are anyone on the line wishing to speak. And please note that there was a slight delay between the broadcast and the boardroom. Kaylee, can you hear me? I can hear you. Wonderful. I do want to make one other thing known.

[00:05:24] We have an organization in Loudoun, a fantastic organization called COT, the Coalition of Loudoun Towns. The Coalition of Loudoun Towns happens to meet on the same time as our public hearing. And they have been asking me to come speak with them for months now.

[00:05:39] And I couldn't go because it's our public hearing and because they usually meet somewhere in Western Loudoun County and I just can't get there and back. So they were very kind today to move their meeting here to Leedsburg. And they've asked me, will I come over and give about a 15-minute presentation and then come back?

[00:05:57] So I'm going to do that. So around 7 o'clock, I'm going to leave the dais. I'm going to hand the gavel to the person who's next in our succession line, which is Ms. Brixman, because Mr. Turner's not here.

[00:06:14] He's at a graduation. And so I shouldn't be gone more than a half an hour. I'm going to Lightfoot, going to give an update, going to be back. But they were very kind to move their meeting to Leesburg, and so I am going to go join Colt for about a half an hour this evening. So please know that.

[00:06:31] Let's see. Pursuant to Virginia Code section 2.2-3708-3 and the board's rules of order, Vice Chair Turner requested to participate remotely in this meeting. Now, I do know that he is at a graduation, and so if he gets back on time, he's going to get on remotely later, but just in case he doesn't have to read this anyway.

[00:06:54] A physical quorum of the board is present in the boardroom, and the board has made the arrangement for the voice of Vice Chair Turner to be heard by all persons in the boardroom. Vice Chair Turner made this request within the required timeframe, and the county attorney determined that the request meets the qualification to participate remotely.

[00:07:11] The board will record in its meetings that Vice Chair Turner participated remotely from his home. I almost said a place in his home. I don't know where he's at in his home, but from his home, and he'll be joining the meeting later on.

[00:07:27] I will receive a text when he is coming into the meeting. He will text Mr. Hemstree, who will text me, and then we'll know he's coming in the meeting at that time. One other kind of almost housekeeping note. On number three, which is Leji 2024-0027, Jesse Court ZMAP 2024-0007, and special exception 2024-0044, which is in the Sterling Districts, the applicant has requested to defer the item.

[00:08:00] Therefore, this item would be deferred until the July 9th, 2025 public hearing. Due to this not being advertised, a defer would take a public comment on this item after the adoption of the consolidated agenda. Normally, I will allow an applicant to defer one time.

[00:08:19] I don't usually allow lots of deferrals because that's not good practice, but I will allow it one time. The Board will hear the following as a consolidated hearing. As a reminder, things on the consolidated agenda have been consolidated because there are no outstanding issues, staff has recommended approval, the applicant has waived their presentation time, and no public speakers registered in advance to speak on any of these items.

[00:08:49] The three items on the consolidated agenda are, number two, the proposed easement of residential permit parking district in the Richmond Forest Community and McGonkian. That is, Ms. Bricksman will make that motion. Item four, Leji 2024-0019, Luckett's Wastewater Treatment Facility, CPMT 2024-0003, Special Exception 2024-0039, Special Exception 2024-0091, that is in the Catoctin District, Ms.

[00:09:19] Mr. Kirshner will make that motion. And number five, Leche 2024-0052, Banneker Elementary Renovations and Addition Special Exception, 2024-0072. That's in the Little River District.

[00:09:34] And Mr. Crony will make that motion. Are there any members of the public in the room tonight who would like to speak on any of those items on the consolidated agenda? Kaylee, do we have anybody in line? We do not. Okay, seeing none, I'm going to close the Consolidated Agenda Public Hearing.

[00:09:54] What members, especially Ms. Fopey, Mr. Kirshner, and Ms. Tocroni, please, I'm sorry, Ms. Bricksman. I sincerely, no joke, apologize.

[00:10:16] No, seriously, I apologize. I'm moving too fast. I have apologized. Yeah, I don't know what that was. Okay, but Ms. Julie Bricksman, Julie with an I, Bricksman, would you like to read the motion on the consolidated agenda for the Algonquian District?

[00:10:33] Thank you, Madam Chair. Excuse me. I move that the Board of Supervisors approve Motion 2B for the approval of the proposed residential permit parking district as provided in the June 11th, 2025 public hearing item number two staff report. Thank you. Yeah, so this is actually was a community-generated request.

[00:10:55] Because the community is right across from the campus of Dominion and Seneca Ridge High School and Middle School. And they are having some issues with parking on their residential streets. So this will be, it's a residential parking permit district.

[00:11:14] And it's very low cost. It's like $30,000 to put up the signs. And I thank the community for working with me on it. Anybody else? Seeing none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion will pass 802 with Mr. Turner and Mr. Sainz off the dais. The next motion is Mr. Kirchner.

[00:11:43] Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a motion to elect its wastewater treatment facility. I move the Board of Supervisors approve motion 2B for the ratification of the commission permit and the approval of the special exception as provided in the June 11, 2025 public hearing item number four, staff report. Motion is made and seconded by Ms. Umstad. Discussion on the motion, Mr. Kirshner.

[00:12:01] Just briefly, Madam Chair, this is a matter we've been working on for some time to ensure that our fire station, the previous fire station, the school in Luckett, the elementary school, as well as the community center, get the necessary wastewater treatment facility that they need.

[00:12:17] It's very limited but very important to sustain those particular elements of that community. So I'm glad to support it. I'm glad staff has brought this, and we are where we are in it. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Seeing none, all of the people say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion will pass 702. And the last one is Mr. Crony.

[00:12:38] Thank you, Chair Randall. I move that the Board of Supervisors approve motion 2B for the approval of the minor special exception as provided in the July 11th, 2025 public hearing item number 5 staff report. Second. Mr. Kirsten, just tell me I should call you Mr. Buffington just to make it all even.

[00:12:57] Oh, that's funny. But I won't. Thank you, Chair Randall. Thank you. But Mr. Crony. Okay, so this is to expand and renovate the historic Banneker School in St. Louis.

[00:13:13] The school size needs to be expanded by 38,000 square feet, including five classrooms, a multipurpose room, and other spaces. The building and site hold important historic significance to the community. Banneker Elementary School was built in 1948 for African-American children in St. Louis and the surrounding area.

[00:13:34] It is the only Loudoun County public school specifically opened for students, African-American students, during segregation. And I'm really proud that Loudoun County Public Schools is preserving and restoring the exterior of the original building and renovating the interior the addition will complement the original building and uphold its importance thank you thank you i will associate myself with those comments manica elementary school means a lot to all of loudon county it means it has a special place for the african american community in loudon county and of course the community of st louis where it is located

[00:14:14] It is important sometimes to know why a school is named that. Banneker is named for Benjamin Banneker, who was a brilliant man. He had been a formerly enslaved person. He was a mathematician, a scientist. He designed much of the city of D.C., and he was an almanac writer.

[00:14:33] He wrote an almanac, so he is a fairly amazing person. And this system will allow us to build more class sizes in there and allow the capacity to increase in that school and allow us to do what we should always do, which is take care of our historic spaces in Loudoun County.

[00:14:52] So I am very, very happy that this is being voted on tonight. And, in fact, I'm also just happy for the Village of St. Louis, which, to a large degree, has not received the attention that it should have received over many years.

[00:15:07] And so I'm really thrilled about this tonight. Would you like a closing, Mr. Crony? That's it. Thank you. All right. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion will pass 702. As I mentioned before, the leggi item 2024, the Jesse Court ZMAP 2024-0007, and special exception 2024-0044, is being deferred. However, if there's anyone who would like to speak on this item, you can do so at this time because of the way our public notice works.

[00:15:41] And of course, you can do so again when it comes back before this body in July. Okay. Once a year, by law, we are required to have a transportation joint public hearing with the Virginia Department of Transportation.

[00:15:58] That is tonight. So I'm actually going to do the six-year road program first. But would anyone like to speak on the joint public hearing for Virginia Department of Transportation?

[00:16:21] Okay. With the people who are doing it, Mr. Delegate Higgins, I said before I was going to take this issue last. I changed my mind. Between the time I was talking to you and walked up here, I changed my mind. Sometimes when I'm trying to decide the order of the agenda, I look at the room and say, like, do I want to clear the room out?

[00:16:40] Or do I want to have people sit here because the other items will go really quickly? I decided tonight to take the item where most of the speakers are. So I'm going to go in order of the agenda tonight, which is going to be the item on the six-year program.

[00:16:56] If you'd like to address the board regarding this item, and you've not already done so, please see the number that's scrolling across your screen. I will now turn to staff for any updates on this item. person we have on this item from VDOT, Susan Glass, I'm sorry, from the county staff, Susan Glass, Vincent Jones, and the Transportation Infrastructure from VDOT, Sunil Tore, the Preliminary Engineering Manager, Andrew Beecher, Assistant District Administrator, Transportation of Land Use Director in Loudoun County. So we'll do the item first, and then we will

[00:17:30] go to questions from staff, I'm sorry, from supervisors. Good evenings, good to see you all thank you and thank you for the uh introduction we can kind of like move on here real quick uh

[00:18:02] is that proper display that's the display you want to be up that's the display for people i don't think so either that's the display for the people who want to see the time yeah exactly you know what and we have a supplemental on this everyone just to just make sure you know so we can just kind of move on to the next slide then all right um so as you said we're here to present the annual

[00:18:38] secondary road six-year plan which is this year it's for fy 25 to fy 2030 and the first page which is displayed up here reflects the annual allocation of funds that come from the state's district grant program and they are allocated to uh improve can that be larger can that be larger can that slide be larger i don't can you all see that if we can zoom in can we thank you superman

[00:19:13] eyes okay so basically it's it's a budget and so what it reflects is the addition of one million nine hundred forty nine thousand three hundred fifty seven dollars in fy 2031 and then the state adjusted the allocation for fy 2030 they reduced it by one thousand four hundred and seventy six dollars so that's a notable change over last year and that first page is important

[00:19:48] to get approved so that vdot knows that the county wants to accept those funds all right so then the second page is what we call the construction improvement budget priority list and this is where the specific roads that you want improved you know are programmed for funding the first line reflects what the board adopted last year on november 7th which was to hard surface a portion of old wheatland road the four subsequent roads that appear are the ones that

[00:20:25] are the subject of this year's plan which were based on previous board direction to program for hogback mountain road gulick mill road lena road and red hill road so what i want to reiterate is this is a funding plan it does not represent the order in which vdot would implement the improvements there's a line item at the the bottom it's called future capital projects and it's like a holding bucket for uh to allocate for future roads there's a total in there of ten million two hundred sixty

[00:21:02] six thousand fifteen dollars so what we typically do here is use the funds that the state has provided to hard surface unpaved roads through vdot's rural rustic road program and there are certain criteria that go along with that which are listed on this slide notably there's a traffic threshold of up to 1500 vehicles per day minimal anticipated growth and support from residents and property owners to designate a road as a rural rustic road

[00:21:41] requires that the board approve a resolution making that designation I thought it'd be helpful to show this was what was done previously for a rural rustic road Nixon Road which was improved a few years ago and this is just an example of what could be done to the rural rustic roads it Nixon Road had a full depth pavement section but on top of it there was this coarse surface that was an aggregate and it was

[00:22:20] used it was applied and it looks kind of like a gravel road I'm sorry I gotta move this away I'm gonna hit that again all righty all right so the four roads that are proposed tonight I'm going to walk through each one of them hogback mountain road the road itself is about two miles long and just give me one second let's go back to everyone when you when you for let's go back to slide five for everyone to understand so when you say the words hard surface what we're looking at on this slide is what you're talking about well yes ma'am they're on the the inset picture that

[00:22:59] has the kind of gravelly looking section underneath of that is a hard surface that has asphalt all right okay but it gives a feel when you're driving on it it still feels like a gravel road okay i understand thank you okay hogback mountain road uh back in 2017 vdot um the state applied an experimental treatment to the first seven tenths of a mile coming off of route 15

[00:23:35] and that's held up very nicely um the road itself runs between route 15 and mount gilead road it carries according to the most recent traffic volumes that were published by vdot which is 2023 it carries 320 vehicles per day the board previously asked staff when we bring these this item forward to provide the crashes like crash history and also um ballot property owners

[00:24:13] so we'll be reporting on that here as well there were four crashes along the unpaved road segment within the past five years um we there were 18 property owners within the area that use hogback mountain road to access their properties we sent ballots to all of them 13 folks responded 12 of them indicated support for hard surfing hard surfacing the road one expressed uh did not

[00:24:47] support the project the next road is red hill road which is in the little river district and it connects between watson road and evergreen mills road and it's approximately two miles long uh the vdot traffic data it's 470 vehicles per day we noted in the staff report that louden county public schools has recently opened watson mill mountain or watson mountain middle school there at the intersection of red hill road and evergreen mills road and they have plans to

[00:25:24] add on to that school complex in the future we did look at the traffic impact study which indicates that the future daily trips on Red Hill Road would be 900 trips per day. So it would be under the threshold of 1,500 trips per day. Now this road does have a high crash rate of all the four roads that we're talking about tonight. There were 21 reported crashes during the past five years along Red Hill Road and most of those were classified as

[00:26:00] property damage only and involved vehicles that ran into trees there was one severe injury crash that was reported in 2018 that it happened at dusk when a vehicle ran into a tree on a rainy day another crash resulted in visible injury that occurred in 2022 and also involved a vehicle striking a tree the posted speed limit on red hill road is 25 miles per hour that was established by vdot in october of 1995. that speed limit would be retained if the road is hard surfaced

[00:26:40] we noted that recently louden county sheriff's office was out there collecting speed data and that was in response to some residents complaints about speeding that happened in mid-may the average speed in the westbound direction was 20 miles an hour and 23 miles an hour on the eastbound direction we sent ballots to 68 property owners along red hill road we received responses from 37 folks 18 expressed support for hard surfacing the road 19 do not

[00:27:18] support the proposed project i attended a community meeting that supervisor tacrony held on april 28th and at that meeting the majority of the residents who attended it expressed opposition to the proposed paving of red hill road we got two more roads to go lena mill or lena road is also in the little river district and it is about a 1.6 miles connects between lena run circle and braddock road it had according to vdot's traffic data 340 vehicles per day travel it

[00:27:59] much of the area around lena road has been developed and there are subdivisions that have paved internal roads that connect to lena road there were three reported crashes during the past five years on lena road two were had property damage only and involved vehicles that ran off the road there was one crash that resulted in visible injury and it was caused by a vehicle side swiping another car the current posted speed limit is 25 miles per hour on this road that was established in september of 1999 and again the 25 mile an hour speed limit would be retained if the

[00:28:36] road is hard surfaced we sent ballots out to 152 property owners we heard back from 86 of them 73 indicated support for hard surfacing the road 13 were opposed and then finally uh gulick mill is another road in the little river district and it is about a 1.4 miles uh comes off a sicklin road right near the greenway the first half mile of the road is paved the loudon county public schools

[00:29:12] academy of loudon has its main entrance on sicklin road but has an emergency access road that connects to the unpaved portion of gullock mill road there's a subdivision called goose creek bend that was uh built out several years ago the developer of that subdivision paid the county money for improvements to go look mill the current balance in that cash contribution account is 86 thousand eight hundred and nine dollars and 94 cents which would be provided to vdot to defray

[00:29:47] the cost of hard surfacing the road vdot's traffic data indicates that there are 206 260 vehicles per day traveling on bullock mill road it had no reporting crashes during the past five years the current speed limit is 35 miles per hour and that would be re-retained if the road is hard surfaced we sent ballots out to 55 property owners 36 responded 33 of them indicated support for

[00:30:21] hard surfacing the road and three were opposed so in summary um we're the fy26 to fy 2031 allocates funding to hard surface as proposed for roads the amounts that would be allocated for provided to vdot they would use that to hard surface the roads are shown on this

[00:30:51] slide with 10 million 266 000 15 would be available for future projects and so our recommendation is for the board to approve the plan as provided in attachment one and authorized a county administrator or is designed to sign it and we also have the rural rustic road resolutions we have been informed that there are um maybe a couple of revised motions that the board is bringing forward so

[00:31:30] wait to hear about that uh and finally we need the board's approval on a budget adjustment to provide the goose creek bend subdivision cash contribution to vdot to pay for gold mill road that it thank you very much includes our presentation thank you so much okay supervisors questions and and mr crony three of these roads are in your district so would you like me to come to you first uh thank you chairman sure sure so um thank you susan and thank you sunil and lou

[00:32:11] can a tar and chip surface because i saw that on nixon road you just showed that slide be applied to lena roll lena road and gulick mill road i know portions are paved already there's a portion paved on Lena Road right near Lena Run and then Gulick Mill Road has a portion paved. Would that work or not? It's a question I have. Yeah, so the treatment, the surface treatment

[00:32:44] on top of the paved road, we can make that work if that is the desired surface, but otherwise we'll try to match what is in the surrounding area roadways. So do I have to make a motion for that to do it or i just i just state the desire to have it yeah okay yeah i think i would prefer that i think because it looks more like what's there currently the nixon road and and it works well that that's a good the nixon road has held up very well okay wonderful um i know that vdot did not

[00:33:20] establish a specific level of support that must be achieved to program an unpaved road for hard surfacing would you agree that if it's 80 or higher that that's a majority i mean i don't know what we're looking for as far as you know i would consider 80 or higher a majority want the road hard surface but it sounds like vdot does not have um a specific level so i'm just asking if you've contemplated that yeah we don't have any specific numeric criteria for that but

[00:33:54] we leave it up to your discretion the board's discretion okay so lastly I know the county is really trying to promote the preservation of our rural roads and I noticed on the website on the county's rural rustic road website that really the emphasis was more on hard surfacing so I'm hoping we can change that to be more preservation this is our county website so i'm not vdot um susan i looked at the county website for the rural rustic roads and it really puts an emphasis more on hard surfacing and putting in you know your road if you're interested

[00:34:33] for hard surfacing versus enhanced maintenance or preservation and so um you know the roads that i proposed uh to be looked at for hard surfacing the majority of them are kind of either in the transition policy area or they're half in and half of them are rural um but i think our emphasis should be more on preservation and maintaining making sure we maintain um our network of roads so i don't know if that can be changed if that website can be changed given that we're looking

[00:35:06] at that with the bills that were passed in the general assembly lou do you want to okay what i will say is this year for the balloting process we use the automated voting system we kind of tweaked it that's done for the residential neighborhood traffic calming program so we had to create a website to facilitate that and that's why it talks about hard surfacing for these roads but what we also did was have a means for folks to put in a request for future consideration to

[00:35:44] have a road hard surfaced we're just kind of collecting those at the moment and can we put good try but actually i do have a point of clarification uh and because you i believe you asked sunil that did you need a motion for something and he told you no let me be real clear That is not correct.

[00:36:13] With the respect, if the board says it, then you may not need a motion. But no one supervisor can actually direct anything because we are a body. So that's how that works. And so, but good try on all those things.

[00:36:28] You almost slid that in there. We really did. But thank you, Sunil. You may want to have this going on between you and I a little bit more, though, Sunil, okay? All right. Mr. Kirshner. Thank you, Madam Chair. I got three minutes to say a lot in. First of all, thank you for bringing this item to us.

[00:36:44] This comes up every year, and being that I represent probably 85% of Western Loudoun County and a big chunk of those roads that are unpaved, this is a very, very important issue for me, but it's also one of those issues, it's like walking across the Grand Canyon on some dental floss, because you have a number of parties on both sides.

[00:37:05] And we've been through a lot in the last couple of years. We are working on some criteria to, so that kind of takes us as supervisors out of this a little bit that will help make a determination on what roads get this kind of hard surfacing, what roads don't, what roads get increased maintenance, et cetera.

[00:37:21] So we're working on that. I think we're making good progress and I hope by this time next year, we will have somewhat of a robust criteria that we have worked through and brought to the board by that point. With that said, it has become, this has to be a symbiotic relationship between our vision for Western Loudoun as Supervisor Tacroni put forth in preserving these roads.

[00:37:41] We are unique in the state of Virginia, 250 miles of these roads. A lot of people come out here, people ride our horses, equine is important. There's a lot of other aspects of these roads that bring it. But if these roads are not maintained, people get very frustrated. People will take so much.

[00:37:56] They move out on a dirt road, they go, okay, great, I'm living on a dirt road. A storm comes, it washes out, and obviously VDOT doesn't have all the necessary resources, I get this, to really maintain these roads the way they really need to be maintained at times. However, I have seen, and I'm just bringing this forth, and I'm going to have four questions for VDOT as soon as I say, I have seen that there has been an increase in volume of calls to my office in the last 12 months of complaints about roads. And I know some things have changed within the department, so I'm going to ask for a couple of commitments from VDOT tonight and questions about this. One, what I'm asking is, will VDOT meet with me and any other supervisor

[00:38:36] who wants to on enhancing our maintenance program. I'd like to learn a little bit more about it and what's going on because I feel like sometimes I'm in the dark. I'm also asking if VDOT will commit to our vision for Western Loudon and preserving these roads as much as possible because I don't feel like we're on the same page a lot of times.

[00:38:54] I'm asking VDOT if they will help me identify, kind of resurrect the program we had a number of years ago under Mr. Higgins where we identified the top 10 problem roads and we also would report on a website of those roads that will be receiving additional maintenance during a particular year. I think that was extremely helpful to our constituents. I'm asking, will VDAD be willing to sit down, meet with me, and talk about those things, and any other supervisor that wants to? Yes, sir. We're always open to sitting down with elected officials. Okay. I think that's important for the people, many of the people that are here to hear that. Thank you. The second question I have, real quick, because I'm running out of time.

[00:39:29] How about you ask all four of your questions, because you've got 10 seconds. Can you put some time back on, because you interrupted my train of thought. - No, I won't, ask them all, just ask all the questions. - So the question is, one was Supervisor Crony's, can we commit to doing the course surfacing?

[00:39:50] And then the third is, when you did the voting, did, was increased maintenance one of the options? Thanks. - There you go. - The ballots that we prepared were based upon the direction that we received from the board last year, and that was the hard surface.

[00:40:11] - Okay, thank you. Mr. Letourneau? So if there is remainder because certain projects get taken out, is there any possibility to use any of this funding for rural rustic roads to improve existing rural rustic roads that have already been through the program, or can it only be used for paving or improvements for roads that have not been improved?

[00:40:44] My understanding of it is that you do not put it on the roads that have already been improved using the previous funds, but I can do more research on it and get back to you. Yeah, only asking because we've got a few rural rustic roads in my area that have shoulder issues and other kinds of problems that have developed over time, and of course we lack any way to really address those absent, you know, additional funding.

[00:41:13] And then I guess sort of a secondary question, are there other roads on the sort of list here like if if we take projects out of this plan and the money doesn't get spent does the money just not get spent or does it roll over how does that work this is legislatively mandated money so it just stays there until it is used and there's no other mechanism so i assume though probably for susan we have other other roads that we didn't pursue this year or do we like or there are other

[00:41:47] roads on the list beyond just the ones that are in front of us there are other roads that have been identified these these roads that are being proposed tonight for the rural rustic program were the ones specifically identified by the board uh at last year's hearing but there are other roads that yeah it certainly could be um okay considered it wouldn't be tonight because we haven't done any of the work on it or anything but that the money would ostensibly stay there could be used in the future and then so neil is going to check and see if it's possible to any for any of that money to be allocated to an existing rural rustic road for simple improvements or other improvements

[00:42:26] so the the funding that we get is specifically dedicated to improving unpaved roads so if it is already paved then it doesn't qualify then it would not okay so that i think answers my first question which is no we can't do that okay well i had to try thank you thank you miss um um stop thank you madam chair i think staff will remember a lot better than i do that uh cochran mill road was initially on a list to move forward um earlier rather than later for um hard surfacing

[00:43:06] but then the board at staff's recommendation delayed it um but feeding off of what supervisor letourneau was saying is cochran mill road a road that might be able to come back and when would be the time to make that proposal get it back on the list for hard surfacing i know miss glass is aware

[00:43:43] of a complaint that we're receiving um about the conditions of the road because it's getting a lot of more heavy truck traffic than it used to and Sunil thank you you have been very responsive and I appreciate that I just want to know at what time would it be appropriate to request that that get back on an upcoming list well there is

[00:44:15] an active legislative application along Cochran Mill Road which has gone through nine submissions of its proffers one of which they're included in this application they're proposing to improve a portion of cochran mill road so this is out there where i was trying to get to is the criteria for the rural rustic road program one of the criteria says that the board

[00:44:54] does not anticipate future growth along there so i think my answer to that question would be we really need to see where we land with the legislative application there's there's two from the same um well two kind of from the same area there one of which is moving along faster than the other that's a good answer thank you very much miss brixman thank you madam chair

[00:45:27] did you have a slide of red hill road i i was trying to remember isn't there a school facility or a school campus being built on there that we had the whole water issue for or am i am i is that not on that area no it is here it's at the eastern end of the road here um the first intersection beyond evergreen mills so so do we think school buses are going to be using that road that's being

[00:45:55] proposed to be paved school buses do travel the road today i believe that the traffic impact study that was done for the school complex would have picked up the school buses that would be traveling on that segment they kept the traffic at i believe is 900 vehicles was the daily volume on that road with the schools in place west of their entrance so it in that sense it does qualify for consideration

[00:46:29] as a rural rustic road because it's less than 1500 because that the traffic's low enough yes the predicted traffic even after the schools are going to be built according to the traffic study okay from the schools okay okay all right um this is a maybe slightly off topic but um i've been hearing a lot of concern um from the gravel riding community and the hiking community even longer the hiking community about paving our rural roads and and um you know ending some of that activity

[00:47:04] potentially ending some of that activity um and and that makes me nervous because i think both activities are healthy and for example the gravel grinder that just happened had a thousand cyclists it's now the it's now one of the largest uh gravel rides on the east coast so uh by ex2 adventures um so i guess i'm wondering when we are looking at the paving are we considering um those other types of activities um that contribute to tourism that that contribute to

[00:47:37] healthy activity for the community do we look at that at all that that they may be being used for races or hiking or the roads that are that we brought forward tonight were the ones that were previously identified by the board i'm not sure what considerations they gave i don't believe the gravel grinder races go along these sections of road okay okay and what about when there's an application for a road abandonment that would potentially create a road that is private versus

[00:48:13] public is that under your purview i i'd like to see a list of potential road abandonments to make sure that we're not privatizing roads that are being used by hikers and gravel riders that is something that we we do review the road abandonments they are actually processed by building and development but we do review those on a referral basis okay um that is certainly something that that we often know there are comments from parks and recreation for instance talking about potential other uses so kind of on a case-by-case basis um where it is okay all right perhaps i get a thank you very much thank you supervisors let me just say that three minutes is not my rule

[00:48:53] it's the rules of order of the board that we all agreed upon so if we can respect the rules of order from the board i'd appreciate that um i have a couple quick questions go back to page six the hogback mountain road i think you if did you say there were 18 crashes in five years is that what what you said? Or five months? I didn't hear you well. On Hogback Mountain.

[00:49:21] On Hogback, there were four crashes in five years. Four crashes in five years. Okay. And were those, and I know that any time, any crash can be very serious. I understand that. But what types of crash, were they fender benders? Were they, tell me what we were talking about on those roads. Two fences running in the, single family, single vehicle cars running into things.

[00:50:08] okay all right um hogback mountain road had um two crashes that occurred at the intersection of mount gilliard road and then there were two crashes that occurred that involved vehicles traveling on the unpaved section of the road that had run off the road into a fence so two on the pace both of those crashes were property damage only okay all right thank you and then i i it might It might have been on Red Hill Road or one of the other roads.

[00:50:32] You said that when the sheriff's department went out there and did speed studies, it was like 20 miles, 23 miles an hour. You have to put that in context for me. I don't know if 23 miles per hour is fast on these roads. Give me some context around that number.

[00:50:48] The speed limit, the posted speed limit is 25 miles per hour. And the average vehicles that were traveling on the road when they conducted their speed study were within the speed limit or less than the speed limit.

[00:51:06] And that was on the gravel road? Yes, ma'am. That was on the gravel road? In mid-May. In mid-May. Okay, so there was no speeding then on the gravel roads. Okay, all right. Thank you. Thank you. That's all I had. So by tradition, I always ask if there are any elected officials in the room, And just by professional courtesy, I ask any elected officials or appointed officials in the room to speak first.

[00:51:30] We have with us today former supervisor and current delegate, Gary Higgins, who's in the room. Mr. Higgins, will you come speak first? Mr. Higgins, after you speak, I'm going to hand the gavel to Ms. Brooksman. And I might be back before public speaking on this item is over.

[00:51:49] Good evening, Delegate Higgins. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. It's a pleasure to be with you this evening. I was just beginning to get over the PTSD from the gravel roads discussions that I participated in for many years, and I'm here to tell you they're back.

[00:52:05] So I wanted to share a few thoughts with you today. I have spoken to Sunil recently about the number of calls that I've received about the rural roads and the need for maintenance. And I know that rain pays or rain causes a lot of the needs that we need for these improvements or for this maintenance.

[00:52:30] But we've gotten an inordinate number of calls lately. I was accosted while I was trying to get a haircut the other day about the road that somebody had on it or lived on it. They couldn't weather because of the weather, so to speak. And these complaints are not just squeaky wheels.

[00:52:48] I think these are the people that we serve. It's the eyes and ears of our constituents that tell us if we have a doubt about somebody that makes a complaint, go out and look at the road for yourself and see for yourself. I've had six of them, and I don't know if those are included in all the ones that Supervisor Kirshner has.

[00:53:06] But what I want to talk about briefly was HB 74, And that was the bill that was passed in 2024 to loosen up some of this money from the secondary road funds for maintenance on gravel roads.

[00:53:23] And so if you use that money for maintenance, then you can have more money in the pot for the improvements of the road or for the maintenance of the roads. What I mean is this money is freed up for improved materials, drainage upgrades, enhanced design of highway profile, to reduce maintenance costs, or enhance historic qualities.

[00:53:50] A number of the complaints I have are specifically drainage issues. So that money could be freed up and used on the drainage issues, and you could have more money for the maintenance of these roads. I saw a number that was mentioned tonight that there's $10,266,000 and another $266,000 and $15 available in unused funds.

[00:54:15] And I would suggest that perhaps those funds should be looked at from the secondary road program for maintenance in these existing gravel roads, the issues dealing with drainage and other problems like that. i see my time is up madam chair thank you and i appreciate that uh did you ever get your hair cut every one of them yeah so you got all of them cut you got all of them cut inside joke um miss brixman all right thank you madam chair and we'll see you in a little bit okay uh the next

[00:54:50] speakers are sonia williams followed by john benedict followed by david uffelman i'm not sure if the chair said this earlier but go ahead and go to either podium whichever one works best for you. My name is Sunaina Williams. I live with my husband, Mark Newsome, at the northern end of Hogback Mountain Road, just off Mount Gilead Road. One of the primary reasons we moved here 12 years ago was to live on a beautiful, historic, rural gravel road. If the road were paved, our lifestyle

[00:55:28] would be diminished. We would like to propose a revision to the paving plan. Specifically, we propose that the paving is terminated at the northernmost gate of Stone Tower Winery, Gate 3, leaving the northern half mile between the winery and Mount Gilead unpaved. The vast majority of the winery traffic comes from the south, from Route 15. Therefore, the daily vehicle count is much lower on the stretch north of the winery. As a result, the northern stretch generally stays in good shape. In addition, we are concerned because our house is located right next to a blind

[00:56:02] hill. Paving inevitably increases traffic speed. Increased speeds over that hill would create a hazard right in front of our house. We appreciate that the winery has a business interest in having a well-maintained road for visitors and staff to access the winery. The winery agrees with the points we are making and supports not paving the northern stretch past the winery. There may be others living on the road who support paving, so I heard from the vote. However, at the September 2023 public hearing chair randall noted that she would not support the votes of people who move to

[00:56:38] an unpaved road and then vote to have it paved i also wanted to note that the rural rustic road surface actually does not feel like gravel at all it feels like a paved road that's slightly rougher so in conclusion we ask that the board please spare the northern section of hogback mountain road leaving it beautiful and unpaved thank you thank you next we have john benedict followed by david uppelman followed by richard rasmus well good evening i'm jeb benedict from the little river

[00:57:13] district loudon is really blessed with a unique legacy network of historic gravel roads they're a key part of the scenic landscape of the county's history and a unique resource for recreation and tourism i'm fortunate to live on one of them sadly most of them have been paved over in the over the years and what's really a sort of short-sighted modernization reflex the current process for assessing gravel for repaving seems to be broken the county really ought to develop a more objective rational process for reviewing gravel roads rather than reacting to the loudest calls it should have heightened review even a separate process for gravel roads in the rpa and it should

[00:57:53] work with vdot to use alternatives to asphalt as for tonight's four proposed roads for asphalt paving three are in the tpa those need to be examined on case-by-case basis and i won't speak to those particular roads except just to say exercise restraint because once asphalt goes down everyone stuck with it and a million dollars a mile is spent some of it needlessly at least potentially needlessly one road is in the rpa and it should be removed from paving hogback mountain road is a scenic historic road in a rural area with low volume like all of loudon's gravel roads it has a good safety profile much better than its paved piers last year the legislature confirmed that v

[00:58:32] dot and the county can use road improvement funds for maintenance and alternatives to asphalt paving it's disappointing that staff didn't really highlight that option in its report asphalt under the rural rustic road program shouldn't be the first option and certainly not the only one the county and v dot should make hogback mountain road a demonstration of service improvement that can be done without asphalt new gravel road techniques can deliver smoother more durable surfaces greater resistant to erosion and washboarding and less dust even while allowing modestly higher vehicle speeds with non asphalt improvements paving still remains an option later if it proves

[00:59:12] truly necessary. So tonight rather than simply approve a package with Hogback Mountain Road we'd ask that you condition Hogback Mountain Road for non-paving treatment. Encourage VDOT to join Loudon in innovating and going forward let's modernize the review process for gravel roads in the RPA. Thank you thank you next we have mr uffelman followed by mr rasmus followed by michael schuster hey thank you um my name is david uffelman i live on red hill road i've been there with my family for

[00:59:43] 20 24 years now um and i want to talk more about safety than anything else um the traffic study or the vdot accident planned 20 21 crashes in the last what five years is just not true i i have personally seen 20 accidents or collisions in the last two years a lot of those aren't reported i've had two head-on collisions i've had my side a rear view mirror torn off by a truck passing by that that just you know just was not getting over um and i've seen a lot of accidents a lot

[01:00:23] we pulled two young college kids out of a car um i think jim jim and i did uh very fairly recently got that they got run run off the road it's red hill road is not like the other roads that were presented it it is all residential there there's probably more residential um individual properties than all the other roads combined and and it's more more importantly it's a cut through it's a a commuter cut through has have any of you guys been on red hill road do you do you see the the

[01:01:02] road is very narrow in many spots um you know you really have to stop to let another car go by um it's blind hills blind turns and it's it's a very very dangerous road um supervisor to crony um met me at my end of my driveway which i have to pull out on you know it's blind you can't see the cars coming and i can't clear it because it's conservancy they won't let me do it so um anyway so it's safety safety is is absolutely primary i'm in the construction industry safety is first and

[01:01:41] foremost regardless of the cost and paving red hill road is is just is an absolute stupid idea it's it's a bad idea because the the the commuters we we get all kinds they're coming up 15 to get to the toll road or ashburn and they're coming up 15 or coming up you know east on 50 and it's it's not a good idea um you know the the traffic study is thank you mr uppelman thank you thank you if you have any more comments you can email us or leave them with the clerk uh next we have mr erasmus

[01:02:20] followed by mr schuster followed by john denegre denegre richard rasmus okay we will move on he's virtual oh he's virtual excuse me okay mr rasmus go ahead okay thank you uh my home on ticket bottom road stands as a treasured symbol of western mountains having been situated this road is more than a means of travel it's a vital to our air rich rural heritage

[01:02:56] and supports the continued operation of several farms. Unpaved roads like ours have endured the test of time, preserving the unique character and charm of our community, qualities that, once lost to paving, can never be regained. Importantly, the gravel surface naturally limits vehicle speeds, enhancing safety for neighbors and visitors who frequently walk, cycle, and ride horses along the road.

[01:03:21] However, the road edges have become dangerously eroded in some areas, posing serious safety risks. Just days ago, I personally witnessed a near head-on collision between a bicyclist and a truck, both forced toward the center of the road due to this erosion. Because I deeply value both the beauty and the safety of our unpaved road, I urge the board to promptly implement last year's rural roads bill, which was previously referred to by Delegate Higgins, allowing state funds to be directed toward critical non-paving improvements.

[01:03:53] Such minor improvements are cost-effective, significantly cheaper per mile than paving, and essential for safety and community preservation. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Michael Schuster, followed by John DeNegre, and then David McClintock.

[01:04:14] Before I start, I just want to tell Ms. Briskman, I have been on pretty much all of those 250 miles of gravel roads in this county.

[01:04:30] So I just want to tell you that before I start. And I appreciate what you said about the hiking and stuff. a lot of people walk and run on our road. I'd like to start by saying rural and rustic. The definition for county and the state does not fit with what the road is. One thing, it says that it's rural and it's in an urban setting. It's not technically rural if there's going to be close to 1,500 cars driving on it. Rustic means over-relating or suitable for the country, which will not take place if this road is paved with the new school coming in. With the danger of the road, as Mr.

[01:05:05] Uffelman has said, one of my dear neighbors that I've been living next to for over six years, there are numerous blind spots. There are 37 driveways on that Ron Redhill Road. Most of them are blind pullouts. Right now, there is about 700 cars a day, not 470. I literally count them. I'm on the road every day running and cleaning it up. I have spent thousands of hours on that road.

[01:05:29] The traffic will increase so much that I work at a public high school. The kids at the school are always saying, when's Red Hill going to be paved? And I said, well, maybe someday they have these souped up cars. I've seen them on Evergreen. I've seen them on Watson.

[01:05:45] They talk about, oh, I can't wait till it's paved. So you tell me what's going to happen on that road when it gets paved, especially with a high school going in soon. There are alcoholics that drive that road every day. I pick up about four beer cans every single day on the way home. I picked up thousands of cigarette butts off that road in the last five years.

[01:06:03] I have picked up colostomy bags, dildos, everything you can imagine. It's disgusting. And the more traffic, it'll continue to happen. I have been cussed out when telling people to slow down. I had people literally come after me physically, trying to assault me when I tell them to slow down.

[01:06:21] The wildlife on that road is unbelievable. We have bear, turkey, deer, coyote. Do you know why? Because the ecosystem is healthy. Let's keep it that way. The last time this part of this road was paved for the school district at the first 0.2 miles from Evergreen to where it becomes gravel again, I cleaned up trash every day, chemicals that were dumped in the water that I sent to the CEO of that paving company.

[01:06:43] I don't want that to happen on the other 1.8 miles. There are other ways we can improve this road, as said, by numerous people already. And I'm going to leave you with one thing. There has definitely been more than 21 crashes. And on November 9th, 1990, on November 9th, 1990, I lost my friend Heidi Blazovich because two young kids were going 75 in a 25-mile-an-hour zone and killed my friend.

[01:07:08] And I can guarantee you it's not going to be if, it's going to be when. It'll happen on Red Hill Road. Thank you, Mr. Schuster. Mr. Denegre and then David McClintock and then Madeline Skinner. I apologize if I'm mispronouncing your last name. My name is John Denegre.

[01:07:24] I've been a Western Loudoun horse farm owner for 40 years. Several months ago, I was at a party in D.C., and I soon discovered that several of our guests were cyclists who regularly come to Western Loudoun to ride our wonderful country lanes.

[01:07:40] In particular, they enjoy the unpaved gravel roads. I asked, what is it about our unpaved roads that they liked? They then cited almost all the reasons why we who live in Western Loudoun cherish our gravel roads. here's what they said. One, the slower pace lets them enjoy the surrounding natural beauty and local history. The roads are safer for them than paved roads. They enjoy meeting other cyclists, the neighbors, folks walking, jogging, and the occasional people on horseback or driving carriages. And they love discovering that our unpaved roads are part of a unique

[01:08:18] several hundred mile network. Without any prompting from me, many concluded saying two things. I hope you won't let those roads get paved over, and someday I'd like to live out there where people seem to care about preserving the best parts of rural life.

[01:08:36] Isn't it interesting that folks who don't even live in western Loudoun, who are just occasional visitors, they get it. They understand what thousands of Loudouners love about the history, the pace of life, and the natural beauty of our countryside.

[01:08:53] They get it, and a huge portion of your constituents get it. And we hope that you, our elected officials, you also get it. And to prove that you get it, please implement last year's Rural Roads Bill that enabled use of state funds for non-paving improvements to our unique network of unpaved roads.

[01:09:19] I just don't want to be at some Washington, D.C. party a few years from now and have people glaring at me and saying, how in the world could you let those precious roads get paved over and ruined? Thank you.

[01:09:36] Thank you. Next, we have David McClintock, then Madeline Skinner. And after Ms. Skinner, we have Elizabeth Tonka. Good evening. My name is David McClintock.

[01:09:52] I've lived on Red Hill Road with my wife for the approximate last 15 years. I put together a, what I like to think, a very professional speech to talk about environmental health and safety, E, H, and S.

[01:10:09] But I'm going to forego this, and I'm going to send it to you all via email so that you can see this. I really wish Madam Chair was here because I'm changing my agenda because VDOT has conveyed some data here this evening that is not 100% reality.

[01:10:31] It's a funny thing about data and numbers, right? You know, one plus one does not equal two anymore these days, right? We're always told a version of what the truth may be. So I don't doubt that the speeds that were being recorded by the sheriff's department being 20 or 22 mile an hour on Red Hill Road.

[01:10:54] But, you know, the true questions that you all should be asking of VDOT is, gee whiz, what are the roadway conditions at the time of recording speeds? What is the weather at that point in time?

[01:11:10] Let me help you out. Those speeds were recorded in front of my house. I have security cameras that we captured the sheriff doing this. VDOT just came through last Monday with a road grader. Those speeds were recorded at the worst, roughest point in the road and under some of the most adverse weather conditions, storming, torrential downpours.

[01:11:38] It's shameful that that is also not being conveyed. So if the public is just barely meeting the speed limit under these conditions, what are they doing when the road is perfectly smooth like this morning where is the sheriff out there actually doing these types of recordings it's very unfair to to report this and claim that there is no speeders if you want to see speeders i'll send you the videos to see speeders thank you

[01:12:11] thank you uh madeline skinner is next followed by elizabeth tonka and then ted tonka miss skinner if you could hold on for just a moment um mr mcclintock i want to assure you and everyone else in the audience that chair randall um takes public comment very seriously and she's very good about going back and watching the video and definitely about reading the emails so i just wanted to make sure everybody knew that go ahead miss skinner thank you good evening supervisors i am madeline skinner here tonight in support of our rural gravel roads many enjoy the slower pace of living on a

[01:12:46] gravel road i wish everyone would my neighbors were proud of our hard work to save a small piece of greggsville road from being paved years ago a project we dubbed the two million dollar road to nowhere this has kept our walkers our bicyclists our horseback riders safe from the proven increased speeds and dangerous incidents that paving brings we should keep safety in mind when a road like hogback mountain road is being considered and at this point really any of these roads based on what i've heard residents should not be residents of these roads should not be punished for visitors who are going too fast on these roads as can be seen by a lot of the property damage

[01:13:24] accidents that have occurred this is a perfect opportunity to implement the 2024 rural roads bill that enables the use of state funds for non-paving improvements hogbat mountain roads should be properly repaired not paved saving taxpayer dollars and keeping it safe for all residents are still waiting for an objective process to determine how taxpayer dollars are allocated for rural road repair. The squeaky golden wheel is not the answer. Agreed upon criteria is the answer and a better allocation of funds. We know that VDOT is capable of sustaining a higher standard of gravel road maintenance. They have proven that they are capable of maintaining a

[01:14:01] gravel road to current standards. They just need a reminder to continue to do so on all of our gravel roads. Help us preserve our western Loudoun roads, a way of life for many. We very much want our historic rural roads in the rural policy area to remain just as they are unpaved and by the way the gravel grinder came through philomont this past weekend even in the rain they are troopers so we were glad to see them thank you thank you miss skinner uh ms tonka and then mr tonka and then joseph gotas if i pronounce your last name wrong please correct me good evening i'm elizabeth

[01:14:40] see Tanaka, I live on Red Hill Road in the western jurisdiction. Gravel roads are a natural deterrent to speeding, especially on cut-through roads where people are not considerate or respectful of the nature of the neighborhoods. Paving increases speeds and especially on cut-through commuter roads. And even with a gravel road deterring the speeds, we still saw the crazy amount of crashes on Red Hill Road. Why would you consider making our western rural gravel road with livestock owners running the length of it into a lethal speedway.

[01:15:17] I have to wonder if you're trying to kill us and our livestock. It's a nefarious plan, like the Death Star. Someone on Red Hill Road once remarked that paving road decision makers should be sentenced to death on the first accident.

[01:15:34] I wasn't clever enough to think that, but I do wonder about the truth of it. But I want you to really understand what it's like to have to cross Red Hill Road to get to our mailboxes, as many of us have to do. the way we have to do it lots of times is park our trucks in the front of the cars in the front of the mailbox to literally block the road put on our hazards so that we can't get nailed where we're trying to get to our mailbox so maybe the vdot crew or someone can explain to me how am i going to get to my mailbox if they pave red hill road and speeding increases unimaginably

[01:16:10] their christmas tree farms equestrian businesses tractors farmers hauling manure as well as equestrian trail riders cyclists runners this is an outrage reckless driving is pernicious in our county don't further invite it on red hill road thank you thank you uh mr tanaka i'm ted tanaka i've lived on red hill road for oh 25 plus years you've you've heard about the safety thing just a couple points on that there's a intersection

[01:16:47] with stone school road that's a 90 degree turn it's a very very tight turn and when i come around on the inside of that turn there's bushes you can't see around the turn so I have to go about five miles an hour in order to get around that turn safely. The other thing about safety is there's a lot of dog walkers, joggers, people walking and even though I live on the road and I'm aware of that and I drive slow, I cannot, there's times when I don't see somebody until I'm like pretty close and I can't imagine if somebody isn't aware that there's dog walkers and they're

[01:17:21] going 30, 35 miles an hour, which they would on a paved road, you just can't see people. They just sort of blend into the tree line. So I'm pretty worried about that. The other thing that I'm worried about is we have a horse trailer and we tow it. And there's a section of Red Hill Road that is paved. It's only, I don't know, 100 yards long. But because it's paved, there's these deep ditches on the side, so you can't pull over. So one thing about Red Hill Road, there's a number of bottlenecks where if there's an oncoming car you have to kind of push your way into the bushes a little bit which means your your tires kind of go

[01:17:59] off the road a little bit if there's a ditch you can't do that and like I said that page section we've had cases where one of us would have to actually reverse because the the actual page section doesn't have enough width for for two cars especially if you have some sort of trailer or something like that anyway those are my two points thank you okay thank you um next we have uh joseph gattas and then ruth youngworth and then uh william needringhouse hang on just a second please i'd like to take a point

[01:18:34] of clarification with staff um you uh discussed the process for this a few minutes ago and that was that these roads were proposed by the board for evaluation is that the case yes okay thank you the public hearing last october okay okay friends we're not going to talk about death sentences for staff that is just doing their job okay thank you go ahead hi i'm joseph gatas i'm talking about lena

[01:19:09] road i can't speak for everyone else um i'm going to be the naysayer tonight uh so far um we're for getting lena road paved uh for several reasons um and specifically the section of lena road between trailhead and braddock road i can't speak for the other side of lena road that does appear to be some farms on the other side but on that side i'm talking about there are no farms nobody who owns horses um that road gets used uh frequently by everyone in our community that is the only way to access route 50 from our community unless you want to drive out and around which adds about five to seven minutes to your commute every day with that some of the things

[01:19:48] that that concern me about the road itself is the amount of dust that comes up from the road there's a lot of ailments and illnesses such as upper respiratory tract infections asthma tracheitis pneumonia rentitis and psiliosis if you're not familiar with the particulate matter anything over 10 particulate matter is like dust in your eyes face what you feel what you don't feel is anything under 10. it's what you're inhaling into your lungs and if you get down to under 2.5 that actually causes long-term illnesses um celiosis is not treatable it's fatal

[01:20:26] long-term celiosis occurs between when you're exposed to it on a short period i apologize when you're exposed to it for periods of time low matter for a long period of time anywhere between 15 to 20 years is when it can normally set in there's also other things that can be found in gravel slag i see my time's going out i'm not going to get into that the epa's environmental sensitive maintenance for dirt and gravel road handbook sites one car making one pass on one mile road of dirt or gravel road one time each day for one year creates one

[01:21:01] ton of dust i know me personally i go up and down that road probably four times a day so i'm creating four tons of dust a day myself not including everyone else in my community um this was on the plan to pave that section of lena road in 2022 to 2027 plan why it got pulled off i have no idea there's a section of lena road that i'm talking about they're about to build houses more houses they were doing surveys recently the landowner has has to agree to improve 1000 feet of lena road i'm thinking for that section when they do this this is a good time to do it if they're going to

[01:21:38] have to pay to improve that section of lena road they should go ahead and do that now as well i can talk about the coefficient thank you sir on paved roads you can email the you can email the board or if you have written comments you can leave them with the clerk and she'll make sure we all get a copy thank you okay thank you we now have ruth youngworth william needringhouse and then dabney carr hi i had sent all of you yesterday an extensive email that i hope you will read at your leisure but i have some additions thing and i have want to address vdot because there is an area of red hill road that is swamp light and tends to flood if we have a heavy rain i've also

[01:22:17] observed now i don't know who makes the call but i've also observed vdot grading the road when there was no issues with it and they were calling for a heavy rain which is just a waste of money so anyway um i moved there not um not long um hurricane i should say broadlands was being developed not long if i moved there and i was driving home one day from evergreen mill roads i had two tractor trailers behind me honking their horns at me because i wasn't going fast enough

[01:22:52] we've had to petition for the 25 mile an hour speed limit and the no through truck signed in my time living there i've never observed either of these being enforced in any way shape or form i'm not sure where the sheriff's department is getting their information i rarely see a sheriff's deputy on our road we had the files lines that were installed that we weren't allowed access to then we had the water tower that we don't not allowed to access to but we get to look

[01:23:26] at it and also on september 27th 2023 at a school meeting i was assured by a supervisor board meeting a member, I'm sorry, and a school board member that there would be no access to the schools from Red Hill Road. And if they're in this audience, you know who you are. So while the current board is not totally responsible for the actions and decisions of previous boards, it's your responsibility to deny further damage to our lifestyle. This includes the speeding and

[01:24:03] construction traffic that I'm assuming will occur once the construction begins on those other schools so um i would appreciate if you would all remedy the issues with the traffic and the zoning before making additional changes to our neighborhood thank you very much thank you mr needringhouse followed by dabney carr followed by ammar yusuf hello mr needringhouse thank you in most of western loudon outside a few parks and town sidewalks walkable areas neatly coincide with

[01:24:40] the unpaved roads part of our input to the western loud and feasibility study for the potomac heritage trail makes clear that where people walk according to sites like strava.com overlap the unpaved road network as shown on a site like gravelmap.com the unpaved roads in effect are the linear parks and trails network in western loudon loudon's wise investment in that program increased walkable trail mileage. Paving any gravel road permanently undoes this good by shrinking walkable mileage.

[01:25:11] New state legislation allows gravel roads to be repaired without paving a good way forward. In January 2023, the Northern Virginia Regional Commission found the annual benefits of trails in Northern Virginia to be an eye-popping $494 million every year. These benefits are in jobs, transportation, and especially health. The benefits stem from the availability of places to enjoyably bike and hike they lead to fewer heart attacks less obesity fewer hospitalizations and longer lives the health only benefits of northern virginia trails at 404 million every

[01:25:47] year dwarf any extra costs of maintaining gravel versus paved roads another part of our feasibility study input shows the increased connectivity available by converting key discontinued roads to LPAT trails. Yet another part shows still greater connectivity if we allow LPAT to maintain natural surface trails along roads where the right-of-way is substantially wider than the road.

[01:26:10] Yet another part shows the implementation of these new trail opportunities affects a very small number of nearby residents. With all these potential connections are shown on a map, out pops some amazing near-term LPAT possibilities. For instance, a trail from Leesburg to Waterford, from waterford to levittsville one further east from leesburg to levittsville they also allow a new appalachian trail access with adequate parking from northern loudon county we look forward to discussing these with you in more detail and links to all these documents are in my email to the board tonight we ask that the process for determining how to maintain the gravel roads

[01:26:50] be reformed to better achieve these wonderful near-term trail connections thank you so much Thank you. We have Dabney Carr, Amar, Youssef, and then we have a remote speaker, Adam Huey. Huey, go ahead.

[01:27:07] Good evening, Board of Supervisors. My name is Dabney Carr, and I live on Old Waterford Road. And I moved out here about seven years ago, and I've lived in a lot of places, but I'd never lived on a rural gravel road before.

[01:27:24] And not too long after I moved in, I asked, I said, well, what's up with these roads? you know, why are they like what they are, you know? And so I learned a lot about them and how they are revered and cherished. And, you know, they have, there's, I mean, it became kind of a really, I grew up in Virginia and I'm a country girl and have a lot of strong memories of that.

[01:27:55] So living out here in the gravel road is something that's really important to me. And I've learned not only the historical part, but the fact that, you know, that they are recreational and they actually the people in consider them open spaces really for walking we've talked about this this evening but walking and running and and dog walks and horseback riding all of that is an essential purpose and speed kills so we sure don't want to have paved roads where it won't improve the quality of life for anybody who's on those rural roads they also

[01:28:29] attract a lot of people to come out here. As John was saying, you know, a lot of people come here to play, to eat, to shop, and to spend the night. They really want to live here, and part of it is the attractive of the rural roads. And I also, it's been mentioned tonight also about the rural road bill, and that allows state funds to be used for the non-paving improvements. My hope really is that the Board of Supervisors and VDOT and collectively and our citizens can work towards maintaining the rural character of the gravel roads

[01:29:06] with a 21st mindset of process and materials. I'd like to see us moving towards working together to not only protect but celebrate and cherish these roads that are a key element in keeping the rural character of loudon county alive thank you thank you next we have ammar yousef followed by adam cooey and then bill hatch good evening is this one active oh no you're fine can i share

[01:29:38] these pictures with the you can give them the clerk okay um so i live on red hill road we're about a quarter mile in um so the first thing is like a lot of the neighbors that that were talking about the dangers it is the most dangerous road out of all these roads right a lot of crashes i've almost been in many head-on collisions i am for paving the road right because the pictures that you see huge potholes people are trying to dodge the potholes trying to like you know just go around them they don't want to get their car uh you know like damaged things like that i think

[01:30:17] there's a compromise that we can do right maybe not paving the entire road most of the folks that are for paving or against paving the road they're further down red hill the people that are in the first quarter mile of red hill they all want it paved right because that is the most dangerous area right there's a hill where cars when it's when snowing when it's wet they you know it's really really dangerous right gravel you can't stop very easily on gravel right so i think the distance dave mcclintock i think he had some information about it he shared with me it's almost

[01:30:53] three times the stopping distance when you're trying to stop in rain and snow and ice almost three times than paved what vdot is uh you know proposing it's very good right pave at least the dangerous choke point where the trees are right right where the school is about to start in the future and it's already happening in the future traffic is going to increase we have huge schools coming in, right? There's a lot of people coming for, you know, their kids drop off, pick up, that type of stuff. School buses go through that. They tear up all the gravel, right? It maybe lasts

[01:31:31] for like a week after it's been like, you know, repaved or, you know, graded. So I feel like we can compromise the people because right now it's almost like a 50-50 split, the number of people who want it paved and don't want it paved. And the people who are up to Red Hill Manor Court, they all want it paved the rest of the people after that don't want it paid so what what we're talking about and uh we were talking to supervisor sacroni earlier maybe we have a compromise pave up to the first quarter mile and then leave it gravel right that way everybody gets what they

[01:32:06] want we have a safer traffic flow and no issues i think that's a good compromise and we're safe thank you uh let's go to adam hooey an online speaker then we have bill hatch and then laura crump anderson we do not currently have anyone on oh okay okay great thank you uh so then we're we have bill hatch followed by laura crump anderson followed by lacy huber good evening good evening vice chair julie briskman thank you for having me here my name is bill hatch i live

[01:32:46] 39676 mount gilead road leesburg in the catoctin district i'm here to speak in favor of improving the rural roads in laden county specifically hogback mountain road we've been farming for 75 years i've lived and farmed there for 75 years on mount gilead dunlap and very near hogback mountain road these roads were built for commerce almost 300 years ago when they were traveled by people horses mules today people travel by car and usually much faster my family respects the

[01:33:26] heritage and the rural beauty of the loudon roads neighbors thought for years that bad roads would keep people from moving into rural loudon that didn't work dirt roads are a status symbol now i have to admit that houses are very expensive on these dirt roads the rural economy has changed we've moved away from the commodity business of milk soybeans corn as much and now we're in a

[01:33:56] new rural economy of direct to consumer so no strong rural economy means more land will be converted into residential estates the increased traffic volume faster speeds and poor drainage equal potholes i really want to preserve the beauty of these roads but i'm not sure whether gravel can do that with as hard as vdot works on my road and i have to hand out to terry your motor grader operator in leesburg district she does great my wife broke her neck two years ago

[01:34:36] and these roads are uh they're bone shaking uh the potholes make driving more dangerous because we're dodging poor potholes uh while trying to figure out how to navigate the road uh the pot that's it my that's my time thank you no no you had 20 seconds 20 seconds okay potholes appear within days after grading um as hard as vdot works uh great britain has solved the problems of rural roads by including hard surface and improvements that do not degrade the history.

[01:35:08] Those roads have been around a lot longer than Loudoun County roads. Now you're out of time. We preserve that history. Thank you. Laura Crump-Anderson. Hi. Thank you, Board of Supervisors, for letting me speak today.

[01:35:25] I am Laura Crump-Anderson. Thank you to the members of Loudoun County. I just want to say this is a basic land conservation issue. I remember back when I was a senior in high school, Old Wheatland Road was up on the docket for a potential, like, renew, inventive, veto, latest and greatest road improvement plan.

[01:35:45] And it was very shortly after that. They had, like, a hard top. It was like tar and chip, but it was not. Anywho, the amount of subdivisions that went on to Old Wheatland Road after they had this new, latest and greatest road changing technology, it was a very slippery slope.

[01:36:04] And it was very quickly after that that things began to unravel for Old Wheatland Road. And for the rest of the county, it's important to conserve our land. I really feel strongly about this as a lifelong resident of Loudoun.

[01:36:20] I will waive the rest of my time. Thank you. Next, we have Lacey Huber, followed by Joe Drumheller, followed by Hugh Dixon. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Lacey Huber, and I'm here to speak on behalf of my family and our business, Stonetower Winery.

[01:36:40] We strongly encourage the board to approve Hogback Mountain Road's inclusion into the rural rustic road program. For 50 years, my family has been farming on Hogback Mountain and dealing with the poor road conditions. We have a generational commitment to farming over 1,500 acres on Hogback, and this road improvement would help us sustain that effort.

[01:37:01] We strongly believe in the preservation of farmland and open space and having roads in good condition are crucial to the success of Loudoun's rural economy. In 2017, the first 0.7 miles section of Hogback Mountain Road coming up from Route 15 was hard surfaced, and it makes sense to continue that treatment further.

[01:37:22] This change did not impact the rural character of the road, but significantly improved the road conditions. The remaining gravel section, after hard surfacing ends, is in terrible condition, and it's not due to the lack of VDOT, lack of effort.

[01:37:38] Grading and maintenance is performed regularly, but due to the amount of traffic that Hogback receives, the road degrades immediately after any time there is a weather event. We recognize that the board very often hears from a group of constituents that are adamant that Loudoun must keep all of its gravel roads unpaved.

[01:37:55] While we support that concept in lower traffic areas where it makes sense, in the circuit, it's also important to understand that the other perspective of the thousands of people who actually use Hogback Mountain Road and understand that it needs a hard servicing treatment in order to stay properly maintained.

[01:38:15] Back in 2023, when Hogback was first eligible for the Rural Rustic Road Program, We sent out an informal petition to our customer list, the vast majority of whom are Loudoun County residents, and within 48 hours, we received over 1,400 signatures in support of hard surfacing.

[01:38:33] In addition, our 180-person staff are in strong support of this project. Of course, the property owners among Hogback are the most important participants in this discussion, and I'm glad that all but one of our neighbors support hard surfacing Hogback Mountain Road as well.

[01:38:50] you heard from the residents at 19628 hogback mountain road which is the last property before it connects to the connects to the gravel road on mount gilead we would support their request to have hard servicing end and transition back to gravel before reaching their property thank you all very much thank you miss huber uh joe drumheller followed by hugh dixon followed by jane covington hi my name is uh joe drumheller and i live on a hurley road near very near uh

[01:39:25] old waterford and i i was always tonight was going to be talking about old waterford and the enhanced uh experimental program that was done on old waterford i come in every day it's pothole city all of a sudden you get the enhanced area that vdot did and so my desire is to spend a lot more money on this enhanced uh type of construction rather than just normal types of construction but listen to all these felt these people talking about red hill road and how dangerous it is to uh

[01:40:00] you know darrow since people getting running off i want to remind people about 25 years ago a board of supervisors uh person howard uh henry stowers was killed at evergreen road and red hill and he's he was one of our extreme board of supervisors back then but anyhow that's just my like on uh and the enhanced uh construction procedures thank you thank you um hugh dixon

[01:40:37] is up next followed by jane covington followed by emily houston good evening good evening uh supervisors uh mr crony i know that you're tired of hearing from me calling your office I've sent everyone an email. I hope you guys have time to read it like the gentleman said I'm going to forego reading that email to you guys to say that I live on a Creek Bend place, which is right off Gullick Mill We don't have any of the issues that I hear other people have mr. Dixon. Yeah, can you stop this time for just a second?

[01:41:10] I'm gonna ask you just to address the board. Okay. Yeah, thank you We don't have any of the issues that the other roads have our our road is basically made to come in and out of our development It's the only way in and out of our development. I live on the corner, so I'm more affected than anyone else.

[01:41:28] And we walk in our backyard with masks on because the dust from, they say it's gravel. They look like dice to me. They're dice-sized rocks. That dust comes into my backyard. I've had Millennium Pools come and charge me $800 to unclog the filter of my pool.

[01:41:47] I've spent $6,000 on my vehicles, including new tires, control arms, intake for my Porsche. which the Porsche people said don't bring it here anymore, right? They opened the belly pan and said, all the things that I hear people talk about have already happened on our road.

[01:42:07] People speed anyway. We have massive delivery trucks, UPS, FedEx. I think I sent you an email of a six-axle dump truck, and we have a caravan of them coming down every day. Accidents. I had to shovel out a school bus.

[01:42:23] I'm sorry. I had to shovel out a school bus this past year during the snow. Finally, my wife is the dean of the medical school at Howard University and she's also the number one pediatric cancer surgeon in the world. She developed a surgery for children with a certain form of cancer. She's the only one in this part of the world that does it. This year, she had to do a surgery and I couldn't get her to the hospital because the road was impassable because it snowed. We can't plow that road. Now, I'm willing to accept some type of change to that

[01:42:57] road uh so that it can be paved in a way that still looks rustic but this way doesn't work it's not cost effective and it's not uh safe for us thank you thank you ms covington followed by ms houston followed by sam croix good evening my name is jane covington and i reside in the little river district so thank you supervisor kershner and to crony and your staff for dedicating so many hours to this issue that recurs every year.

[01:43:33] Thank you, Delegate Higgins, for your work on the gravel road bill making the way for increased funding for enhanced maintenance for gravel roads. Tonight, I'm not here to advocate for pave or don't pave, but I'm here to ask supervisors to implement a data-driven process for allocation of limited state funding for Loudoun's rural along the same lines that Supervisor Kirchner spoke earlier of criteria that his staff are working on now. Here are a few objective data points to consider

[01:44:10] when making decisions. Safety. By VDOT's own statistics, gravel roads are far safer. Gravel roads inherent traffic calming properties reduce speeds. In their report, staff noted four crashes along the two-mile stretch of gravel of hog back, but did not reference the crash data from the paved portions. Reading from the same data source, there were an additional six crashes along the much shorter section of paved hog back.

[01:44:47] Doing the math, the paved portions are far more dangerous. It's also worth noting that three of the 10 crashes involved alcohol. Number two, cost. At a million dollars per mile and 250 miles of unpaved roads. It's another century before we're able to pave all of Loudoun's gravel roads.

[01:45:10] Delegate Higgins, gravel road bill is a good solution. Number three, loss of recreational opportunities. This has been spoken about several times this evening, and to your point, Supervisor Briskman, gravel roads do serve as de facto parks and recreation for Western Loudoun.

[01:45:30] In summary, VDOT has the capability of improving gravel roads, and we've seen that along Old Waterford, and Sunil, thank you for your work. Delegate Higgins has made the funding possible, so thank you all. We can do it.

[01:45:48] Thank you. We now have Ms. Houston, followed by our last speaker on this item, Sam Krois. I'm Emily Houston speaking for the Rural Roads Committee and echoing many of the points that Ms. Covington made.

[01:46:04] Last year at the initiative of our committee, the state legislature passed what became known as the Rural Roads Bill. This legislation clarified how state funds can be used to improve unpaved roads and relieved us of the binary pave-don't-pave choice.

[01:46:21] It creates a spectrum of choices for improving unpaid roads and more judicious use of taxpayer dollars. Let's take a look at what this bill can do for us here in Loudoun. It says that these improvements can be things other than paving and give specific examples, and I'm quoting from the actual state code, improved materials, drainage upgrades, or enhanced design of the highway profile, which means shaping the roadbed with a proper crown.

[01:46:52] It also says that other techniques shall be considered improvements if they increase safety, reduce maintenance costs, or enhance the historic qualities of the highway. So all of this sounds pretty good, right? And the state code says this is what VDOT can do to improve our roads using the funds under consideration tonight.

[01:47:14] The bill also says that the locality, that's us here in Loudoun, can design and implement these improvements to quote from the bill standards as mutually agreed upon by the department which is vdot and the locality so what will it take to implement this legislation we have the tools right here in this language we don't have to cover our roads in asphalt to improve them we can fix the drainage trouble spots use better quality aggregate shape the roadbed properly and

[01:47:48] increase safety and we, Loudoun County, have the ability to establish the standards required for these transportation projects. We ask the board to direct our DTCI to establish those standards and work with us and VDOT to create the objective data-driven process by which road segments are selected for improvement. We can do it ourselves and we don't need an expensive consultant to do it for us i also suggest that we put a deadline on achieving these things i think six months

[01:48:21] would be plenty of time thank you thank you mr croiss hello supervisors good evening i'm sam croiss i live outside of lovitzville in the catoctin district i do have opinions on rural roads but actually i came here tonight because i was reading the paper about how you guys are having a problem with people coming up and talking about all kinds of stuff that's not related to the uh matters in front of the board um and i was like geez that

[01:48:56] looks like fun um so i came here tonight i'm going to start off uh talking about race uh mr coris i don't know if you heard um at the beginning of the meeting uh yeah chair randall said that um you can only address items that are on the um advertised agenda for public hearing if you want to talk about anything else anything on your mind you can come to a board meeting but this is a public hearing so right now we're taking input only on the items listed on the public

[01:49:28] hearing agenda okay um can i um it does kind of address the roads tangentially if you're going to comment on the six-year plan for repaving or paving gravel roads you may comment on that but if you're going if you're going to diverge away from that then i will ask you to withhold your comments and come to the board meeting on tuesday uh well i'm only going to diverge a tiny little bit is that okay we shall see okay you can try but i might gavel you down okay that's fair

[01:50:04] that's fair where did chair randall go i i'm not answering that question sir okay i'm not here to answer questions about chair my clock's been ticking can i reclaim my time please you can reclaim 15 seconds again please address only items actually we're only on the gravel road item right now so that's the item you signed up to address okay thank you so this is entirely about gravel roads but every person people live on gravel roads or paved roads all belong to a race

[01:50:40] but they're also all mr croix i'm gonna i'm gonna ask you to stop unless you have some specific comments on the plan on item one i'm getting there on item one i would ask you to please limit your comments to item number one okay that is gravel roads can i get another 15 seconds in the plan no you may not because i already asked you to do that and you didn't do it okay so i'm

[01:51:12] an individual i live on a road that was formerly gravel it is now paved it goes through the middle of my farm. It causes all kinds of problems. I'm an individual. I belong to a race, but I would like to be treated as an individual. All right, Mr. Croyce, I'm going to ask you to stop your comments now. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Good night. I do have opinions on rural roads, but I guess I can't

[01:51:47] share them tonight. You can come on Tuesday. Talk about anything you want. Thank you. Okay. Those are all the public comments we have on gravel roads. We have two motions on the dais that are not the packet motions i think these motions are to amend the item so then we can do the packet motion after that the first motion i saw on the dais was the purple one so mr crony would you like to make a motion thank you um chair bruskman so i will be making a motion tonight about red hill

[01:52:25] road um okay there it is okay um i move that the board of supervisors remove red hill road from consideration for paving in the fy 2026 fy 2031 virginia department of transportation secondary road six-year plan thank you would you like an opening yes thank you so i um i met with

[01:53:01] two groups um on red hill road and for me it's very important to obtain the views of the residents served by the road i held a community meeting on april 28th where the majority of residents opposed paving in fact it was a very passionate meeting and i really got the sense that the community cares about their gravel road i know one gentleman picks up trash every day from the road and I thank you for that for taking care of the community and then also I heard that the residents

[01:53:35] looked out for each other when they got their mail you know there are a lot of blind curves on the road and I like that everybody's taking care of each other so it's almost like an HOA community I did meet with the residents from Red Hill Manor and they did ask to pave a portion of it and while I considered it the ballot showed that they were pretty much the only ones that wanted the paving on that portion three voted no and then we had two no responses and one voted yes so I just can't move forward with a partial

[01:54:14] paving at this time I think enhanced maintenance would work for Red Hill Road I really do. I heard a lot of the residents tonight asking that we start implementing the bill for enhanced maintenance.

[01:54:30] And I look forward to working with VDOT to get that implemented because people have been waiting for a criteria for taking care of our assets, our rural roads, that do not include paving. So I think it's time to get that done. The bill was passed.

[01:54:49] Thank you, Delegate Higgins and the community for making that happen. So I do want to look at criteria and look at materials and drainage upgrades and other options for taking care of these assets.

[01:55:08] So I think, you know, Red Hill Road, down the road, if you guys want to reach out to me, if the school comes in and you feel that you want to change in kind of the decision that I made tonight, I'm happy to hear from you.

[01:55:25] But for now, I'm not gonna support paving it. I will support enhanced maintenance, and I will continue to reach out to the sheriff's office for traffic enforcement because I do think they're speeding. I heard the one resident say that they probably came out on a day that was not good conditions.

[01:55:45] Maybe they should come out another day, and I'm happy to reach out to the sheriff's office to ask them to come back out and take a look at speeding on Red Hill Road. So I really appreciate the community. I appreciate your passion. I appreciate your feedback and your input. That's what this is about.

[01:56:01] That's why I ran for office, was to listen to the residents. Mr. Crony, you're out of time. Thank you. Mr. Kirshner. Thank you, Ms. Brisbane. I support this motion. I am not, I think any paving slash hard surfacing, depending on what you want to call it, in western Loudoun, any of our roads should be taken very, should be looked at very seriously.

[01:56:27] I have supported some hard surfacing projects. I agree with a lot of what many of the speakers had to say tonight. It's a very fine balance. But I think we are getting close to some really good solutions long term. And that's really the issue.

[01:56:43] a lot of this is kind of short-term fixes but we're getting some to some of the solutions work we're really working on some criteria um um delegate higgins delegate reed others who worked on the um maintenance the enhanced maintenance bill we're still waiting for some of that criteria um to come out from the state but once we get that um and i hope very very soon i i believe we will have additional funds because i think that's really been in in many ways the missing key to this kind of what i call the road wars because you do have very different people on different

[01:57:20] sides and once we get to that then we're going to really be able to tell hey what what portions of road what sections may need the rural rustic road program just because the additional enhanced maintenance is just not working perhaps there are some areas like my motion will be tonight that will will require the rural rustic row i'm going to i'm going to kind of split the baby on my motion we get to it but there might be other areas that that will need that but as a general rule we have um as many folks said um people move there um they expect these roads to have at least a

[01:57:55] reasonable level of maintenance but they also move to a a gravel road so um i think it's reasonable to ask our maintenance folks to do a good job it's reasonable to ask also if it's not being a job to have it paved or go through the program and we want to avoid that where possible because we do have a lot of recreational use we do have a lot of folks who choose to live on these roads i mean i grew up on a road half a mile long that was that was gravel it wasn't maintained well and i think i lost several tires and a number of shocks and a few underneath of my old pinto station

[01:58:30] wagon when i was about 16 or 17. so i understand the the griefs that come with it but i'm definitely going to support this motion um i i think it was fairly split in terms of actually there's a significant number of folks on the road and i think that was supervisor buffington's criteria i don't think that should be our only criteria but what do the folks on the road want to see happen or not happen so this one definitely was fairly split so i think i'd certainly support it supervisor umstead uh thank you madam chair may i ask a question through the chair to

[01:59:04] either vdot or county staff yes how how should we if the board wanted to try to tap into the funding source the delegate higgins mentioned what process should we be expected to use and how long would that take currently the funding that is allocated is is allocated under construction

[01:59:37] program so it cannot cross over to the maintenance very good thank you thank you very much uh i will support the motion thank you chair randall um thank you and i'm glad to be back um do we know and if not i might ask mr delegate higgins if we don't know when the rural rustic road bill was signed has it been over a year already that's yes it's been over a year already okay

[02:00:13] Then in that case, do we know, Ms. Sunil, do you have any idea when we might get the criteria for what, because it's one thing for people to say, I support enhanced maintenance. Okay, but until that's in place, we don't know what that means.

[02:00:30] I am going to support the motion, but do we know when the bill that says what enhanced maintenance is, what criteria is going to be used, how often, what type of materials, Do we know when that bill might, when that criteria might come to be delivered?

[02:00:47] So, I'm not sure about the criteria, but the interpretation of the bill and how to be used. Central office leadership has been developing those guidelines for statewide use, and we made a recent inquiry to the central office, and we're expecting something to come out in the next few months.

[02:01:07] Apparently, the leadership is reviewing some final drafts, But I don't know exact time when that will come out. But is it reasonable to say it would be out within six months? I'm hoping before then. And then when those come out, what happens next? Do those go to the public for comment, or will they be delivered to the General Assembly?

[02:01:29] Will they be delivered to local bodies? What happens next? This is going to be a public document that basically outlines what this means, what this legislation means, and how it can be used. but the criteria is not going to be part of this. Criteria will have to be developed locally, how to use this legislation and develop their own criteria.

[02:01:48] - So we could then be literally, possibly a year from having the criteria, depending on how fast that's done, and then how fast a local body, this local body, a local body gets criteria in place. Yeah, okay, I think Mr. Crony is right that I support enhanced maintenance, but saying you support something doesn't really mean anything until you know what it is and when it's coming, but I will support the motion.

[02:02:10] - Thank you Madam Chair. I am concerned about the schools getting built on Red Hill Road. I'm gonna support the motion. I just wanted to say that I'm concerned about the schools coming and that that road may need to be paved eventually.

[02:02:28] So I think we may be heading that way for Red Hill. I'm also a little bit concerned that according to staff, the board gave them direction to look at these roads. We spent time and resources on it. They came back with these recommendations based on their expertise, and now we have motions on the dais to remove staff's recommendations.

[02:02:51] So I'm sorry for that, honestly. Like, I just, I hate the idea that we spun wheels on something and now we're removing the roads from the program. But I'm definitely going to be, especially because it was basically a 50-50 tie on the vote there, and i want to support the district supervisor so i'll definitely be supporting the motion thank you would you like a closing uh sure so um i don't think vdot has established a specific level of support that much be it must be achieved to program an unpaved road for hard servicing and

[02:03:28] so for me 50 50 means the community is divided so we shouldn't pave it so for me that means that people um you know would would want to keep um their road gravel uh that that's 80 or above to me is support and lena road and gulick mill road reached that level so i will be supporting um you know uh doing a tarn ship like nixon road for the other two but i think i think you know 50 50 just means the community is kind of divided um i did have a meeting though with the community and they

[02:04:06] were all opposed so and i know miss glass she was there so i'd really appreciate the support of my colleagues i think enhanced maintenance is coming we just need to establish the criteria we have the legislation we need to make it happen so it is coming and i think that's something that red hill road um could look forward to you know in the next year or two enhanced maintenance upgrades the drainage um just to improve the condition of the road so uh thank you everybody

[02:04:37] for coming out and speaking and i really appreciate um again your passion for the road and um and i um like i said i'm gonna remove it and and i thank you for your your input thank you motion made by supervisor to crony seconded by supervisor umstad all in favor please say aye aye any opposed that motion carries 702 with supervisor turner and supervisor sayings off the dais okay supervisor kershner would you like to make a motion yes thank you madam chair um i can i ask one clarifying

[02:05:13] question of my motion to staff before i read it yes thank you um so miss williams came and spoke and she i think she may have been i think it was miss williams first speaker and talked about or one of the first speakers talked about she used the terminology the northernmost part of stone tower winery entrance and staff when we put the motion together was a western most are we talking about the same location i would assume the intent was to be the the furthest entrance from route 15.

[02:05:48] okay so that would be i think that would kind of be the same depending on your west or north and how you're looking at ma'am ma'am we're not talking from the audience thank you so as long as that Well, I don't know exactly on this map where it would be, actually, but I just wanted to make sure that was the intent, and we were probably in all likelihood talking about the same thing.

[02:06:10] Okay, so I'm going to go with staff's motion, because I think that establishes ultimately what my intent was, so I'll go ahead and read the motion now. Thank you. So my motion is that FY2026 to FY3031 Secondary Road Six-Year Plan, oh, actually, let me just go to the motion.

[02:06:27] I move that the Board of Supervisors amend the Rural Rustic Roads resolution for Hogback Mountain Road to reflect the following: pave Hogback Mountain Road to the Rural Rustic Road standards from James Monroe Highway, U.S. Route 15, to the westernmost entrance or the furthest entrance of Stone Tower Winery.

[02:06:50] Furthermore, this is a Board request as part of my motion, I ask the Board of Supervisors requests that VDOT investigate and implement maintenance options for the remaining unpaved segment of Hogback Mountain Road from the westernmost Stone Tower Winery entrance to Mount Gilead Road.

[02:07:09] I'll second that, but that second part should be, and I further move. And I further move. What she said. Would you like an opening? Just very briefly. So I've said a fair amount of my piece early on during kind of the discussions. First of all, thank you, everyone, for coming out and speaking.

[02:07:25] This is a little bit of a compromise. There were a number of people on the road. Most of the people on the road did want to see this hard surface. However, I have made a commitment to my constituents throughout Western Lowne, especially those who are really advocating for the preservation of roads, because roads are very much like a house or a piece of land or a farm.

[02:07:45] Once you hard surface it, it's going to be hard surface for the remainder of its life. And so before we do that, we need to take all possible measures I think we can, reasonable measures to ensure that we are preserving it if indeed that is what we want to do and as i mentioned earlier this is really about a about preserving um a feel a look a historical aspect of western louden county but with that said in this particular situation hogback mountain road has been on the list for some time there have been a number of requests the portion that i am asking that we do

[02:08:22] go ahead and use the rural rustic road program to hard surface this and i'm assuming with a topping or a surface that is rough, similar to what we've shown, I assume that's going to happen, is it serves in large part a business, a rural business.

[02:08:39] As Mr. Hatchett said, much of western Loudoun is a rural economy, and I think this is very important for this particular business. We may look at later hard surfacing the remainder of this, but I think, I really believe in my heart of hearts, that if we can enhance our maintenance process, we may not have these road wars continuing nearly as much.

[02:09:03] I think we'll be in a much better place. And so obviously this year, we're, last year, I think on a number of these, we took a pause, but on this year, Hogback's been on this list for a while. I know the owners came and spoke, and thank you for that of the winery there, and I'm appreciative for your input on this.

[02:09:24] I'm appreciative for the input of everybody's on that roads and communities input. And I hope this will be a reasonable compromise that will be appreciated. And I certainly hope that VDOT will really work on this portion of the road that remains gravel to enhance, 'cause there have been a number of places on that road that have been identified that could use some significant enhanced maintenance.

[02:09:51] So thank you, I hope my colleagues will support me this and um let's vote um i i do have some comments in the motion a question for staff red hill is now off the table and now we are proposing doing only a portion of hogback at what point do we reconsider this does the board have to give you direction again or is it is it initiated by staff or vdot so i believe your question i believe your question is can we can the

[02:10:28] the board ask us to come back in whatever amount of time before next year with additional roads for consideration? Is that what you're asking? I guess, you know, for example, when someone comes with a land use application, if it's denied, they have to wait a whole year before they can come back again. So my question is, should the board want, should we get more complaints? Should there be a horrible accident and all of a sudden we decide we want the road paved? Is there a period of time we have to wait or can it just be next year for the item that that's brought today and with the with the motion that were passed

[02:11:07] you can adjust those items and pass it annually today for for for the program that was brought to you with the amended motion no i know or a future but you're saying if for other roads yeah but the other roads can be brought up in the next year's uh six even if we're taking them out of the program today can we can we ostensibly come back and say we want red hill next year okay okay that's i just didn't know if there was sort of a time constraint in that way not suggesting i'm going to do that i just was curious if we had to wait like five years or something like that um i i'm

[02:11:43] i'm a little bit torn on this one because because i believe the winery owner came and spoke and said she would they would prefer the entire road be paved and um the okay i'll double check the email i'll double check the email okay thank you um but also all but one resident on that road wants it paved but um i i will support the motion um so would you like the closing mr kirschner um no um let's vote okay uh motion made by mr kirschner second by chair randall all in favor

[02:12:20] please say aye aye any opposed uh that motion will carry 702 with supervisors turner and Sains off the dais. Ms. Tacroni, would you like to make the packet motion? Yeah, I think I have to make 2B, though, supervisor. Well, that would be to suspend the rules. I don't think you have to make 2B. We're forwarding it to the next business meeting. Can I suspend the rules? You don't need to. If you just want to forward it to the next business meeting, you would just do the motion to forward it as amended. So it would be forwarding the item as amended. Okay, I told her that. Okay,

[02:12:58] So I move that the Board of Supervisors forward the FY 2026 to FY 2031 Secondary Road Six-Year Plan and FY 2026 Construction Improvements Budget Priority List to the July 1st, 2025 Board of Supervisors Business Meeting for Action as amended.

[02:13:22] That's fine. Second. That's fine. Motion made and seconded. Supervisor Tacroni, would you like an opening? Yeah, I just wanted to make it clear that this process, balloting is really important in this process to get the residents' feedback.

[02:13:39] So the Board of Supervisors directed staff to poll residents along the road and provide the polling results to the board. So for all the roads that Supervisor Kirshner and I proposed, we were waiting for the ballots.

[02:13:55] So I think that's a critical piece to make a decision as to whether, you know, we consider paving or not. And also, if it's part of the recreational network, I really appreciated some of the comments about the linear trails and how some of our rural roads are part of that recreational network that rural Loudon relies on because they don't have, you know, the signature trail or some of the projects that we're doing in the east. So that's their, you know, their way of having recreation and a trail network.

[02:14:35] So I just wanted to make that clear to the board that the ballots are kind of a critical piece of this process. Thank you. Thank you. Supervisor Letourneau. Thank you. I will, and I have deferred my colleagues in their areas on these roads. I will make a general comment that I make annually on this item, which is a note to all of our citizens who feel strongly about this. I do think the day will come when, because of PM 2.5 and PM 10 regulations, we will have to pave roads.

[02:15:06] So it does puzzle me a little bit with the amount of climate and environmental sensitivities we have in the county and the groups that usually come to us some of them don't seem to be very focused on this issue but if you do any research the the damage to lungs from the dust that kicks up on dirt roads is significant and it's a significant contributor to pm 2.5 and so for counties that fall out of attainment on pm 2.5 which has been pushed down by various

[02:15:40] administrations over the years, a way to mitigate that non-attainment is to pave roads because the particulate matter from dirt roads ends up being such a significant source, greater than almost anything else in a lot of these places. With the amount of unpaved roads we haven't allowed, and it's a major source of PM 2.5 for us. I don't believe we're currently in non-attainment, but we may be at some point. As those numbers keep getting pushed lower, I doubt this administration will do it but the last one did and future ones probably will continue to so i'm just putting

[02:16:14] that out there that there are significant health and environmental concerns associated with pm 2.5 with breathing in particulate matter and that dust that gets cooked up in dirt roads is a major contributor probably the largest in loudon county so it's something that for those who do care and i can we did have a few speakers reference this who are dealing with that in their homes I wouldn't want my kids breathing this I wouldn't but I respect everybody's wishes and my colleagues who represent these districts the dullest district used to have four or five unpaved roads and now thanks to this program it doesn't have any so I've my citizens and my residents and my

[02:16:52] viewpoint has been has been implemented but others feel differently and and I I'm happy to respect that so all right I will vote in favor of the motion thank you supervisor Kirshner yeah just just briefly thank you supervisor letourneau for bringing that forward and again obviously if that ever does happen all right hands or we will be forced to that matter but that has not happened yet and um i'm a little doubtful whether it ultimately happened but if it does it does but in the meantime i want to remind everybody who spoke and all my colleagues as well loud and i think loudon has most dirt roads gravel roads in the state and so we're unique in that way

[02:17:25] and given we are a thriving metropolis of northern virginia and the highest per household income in in the nation and data center leaders, we have a unique Western Loudoun County and this is one of its unique aspects and a real driver, quite frankly, for our Western Loudoun economy.

[02:17:45] So I think it's definitely something worth looking at every year very carefully. You know, we may have to do some things that we've done this year on some portions, but preserving this aspect of our Western Loudoun County until we are forced to do so by the program, as was mentioned by Supervisor Letourneau, I think we should continue to do that for not only our equestrian, but for those people who choose to live in Western Loudoun County on these roads.

[02:18:10] It is a choice they make. They've asked that we continue to preserve these as a general rule. And I think we can probably bring really good balance to this program if we have an enhanced maintenance program. And I'm really looking forward to working with VDOT since we do have a commitment to continue to meet, to hopefully get on the same page, have a real symbiotic relationship terms of how we work together to preserve these roads. Thank you. Thank you. Motion made by Supervisor, oh I'm sorry, Chair Randall. Thank you. So when I was running in 2015 I was

[02:18:47] trying to visit all parts of the county and I went out to rule out in county and I saw how many roads were unpaved and I thought gosh I'm going to make sure that I put make this cut part of my campaign promise and get these ropes paid paid and i put that on my my page um and uh and within it felt like a half an hour a man named mitch diamond called me and he in no uncertain terms helped me understand what rural roads was to loudon county and invited me out and at the time i'm not sure if that still um exists but there was a loud and rural roads commission and i spent lots and lots

[02:19:27] of time learning about the rural roads in Loudoun and what they meant to people, which ones could be shown to have some historic nature, which ones could not. I understand what Mr. Letourneau was saying, I do, but I also, I'm always baffled when someone moves to a rural area and then wants to change the entire area they live in.

[02:19:52] I've just never kind of got that, and I trust that adults are adults and that you know when you move there that you're moving to a rustic area or a rural area with rural roads. I trust that you do your homework like anybody else would. So I'm going to support this motion, and you know, no one wants to have anyone have medical issues.

[02:20:19] And so the maintenance and the hard paving may help with that. I would be loathe to think that we would ever pave them with kind of the asphalt that you see in eastern Loudoun County. I hope that never happens. But I also have to believe that smart people know where they want to live, know what they were buying for, and made that decision for themselves.

[02:20:44] Loudoun is such a unique county because we have these four distinct policy areas. we're building an urban area, we have a suburban area, we have a transition area, and we have a rural area. And if you want to live in any of those areas, you can. But if you choose to live in the rural area, then I'm going to assume that you know what you're moving there for. And I have been taught by Mr. Diamond and others that rural roads in Loudoun are part of rural Loudoun and so I'm going to support the motion and hope that we don't have to pay roads in the future thank you thank you madam chair motion

[02:21:24] made by supervisor Kirshner seconded by madam chair all in favor please say aye aye any opposed that motion carries 702 with supervisors Turner and Sains off the dais and I now turn it back over to madam chair point of order I believe it Did you need a closing?

[02:21:42] I think she made the motion. Oh, I'm sorry. Made by Supervisor Tachoni and seconded it by, got it. Did you have a closing? Did you want to say something else? Put your light on. The Tarnship, I don't have to make a motion for that. Remember how we had that discussion? I'm not allowed to ask.

[02:21:58] You don't have to make a motion for that as long as there is no opposition on the dais, and I don't think there is. Okay, thank you. Okay. Thank you. Apologies for not giving you your closing. Now I'm handing it back over to Madam Chair. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for coming. We appreciate it very much. Sylvester, we're going to do one more item before we leave and take a break, but I'm going to just give a little lull for anyone who might want to leave the meeting.

[02:22:21] Now, if you want to stay with us for the rest of the evening, you are welcome to do that. But if you don't, see, I had a feeling some people might leave. That's fine, too. And then we're going to do Belmont Cove because it shouldn't take as long. I don't think it should take a break.

[02:22:37] And then we'll take a break. Nope. We're going to do Belmont Cove.

[02:23:23] Hey, everybody.

[02:24:30] how are you doing? Good to see you. We're well. We are ready when you are. I know we have the presentation that has 15 slides. That's correct. So good evening. My name is Darby Metcalf with the Department of Planning and Zoning. I'm here tonight to present the application for Belmont Cove rezoning and Belmont Cove appendage. The subject property is 14.6 acres located west of Russell Branch Parkway, east of Belmont Manor Lane, and south of Route 7 in the Ashburn Election District. The property is on Office Park under the Loudoun County Zoning Ordinance located in

[02:25:05] the suburban policy area and the suburban mixed-use place type. Belmont Cove rezoning is outlined in yellow and Belmont Cove appendage in pink. Application requests a zoning map amendment to rezone approximately 8.19 acres from PDOP to R16 ADU for the development of 78 single-family attached units. Additionally, a zoning concept plan amendment to reduce required building and parking setbacks between residential and commercial uses. The application further requests zoning modifications to reduce setbacks and landscape buffers along Russell Branch Parkway, permit

[02:25:42] townhomes to front onto open space, and reduce tree canopy requirements. Present on screen is an annotated excerpt of the concept development plan with townhome sticks indicated in gold as well as red and a depiction of the building and parking reductions.

[02:26:04] Following the March Planning Commission work session, the applicant has made the following updates, provided a natural surface trail along the northern boundary of the subject property. Revised commitments to allow active rec uses to be substituted with a taut lot and provided fire suppression sprinklers and info pamphlets to all units at cost.

[02:26:30] Staff continue to identify residential unit size as an outstanding issue. The general plan lists single-family attached units as a complementary use within the place type. However, the place type specifically anticipates small lot and single-family attached units. Staff recommend the application commit to reduced unit size square footage. The 2019 countywide transportation plan anticipate sidewalks along both sides of all streets however the application does not provide sidewalks sidewalk access for all units staff recommend the application commit to providing

[02:27:03] the anticipated sidewalks the application provides an exhibit depicting nearby residential developments omitting sidewalks present on screen is a graphic with the omitted sidewalks noted in pink with belmont cove rezoning to the left belmont park indicated on the right while belmont park across Russell Branch Parkway omit sidewalks in a similar pattern to as proposed in Belmont Cove rezoning.

[02:27:31] Belmont Park was legislatively approved with all the anticipated sidewalks which were requested to be removed at site plan due to the slope along the frontage of these specific townhome units exceeding the facility standards manual standards. The request was approved by staff due to the provision of additional curb ramps, crosswalks, and the shared use path on the opposite side of these units providing an alternate pedestrian connectivity. The general plan anticipates 5% public and civic space. Submission materials designate locations not typically considered for public and civic space. Additionally further commit that a tot lot may replace active rec space for

[02:28:10] civic use. However commitments do not provide the location or amount of space that may be replaced within the active rec space for for tot lots. Staff recommend additional public and civic space be provided to include location and amount for tot lot replacement that may occur.

[02:28:26] The application proposes reducing landscape buffer requirements along Russell Branch Parkway. The zoning ordinance establishes criteria for approval of modifications. As proposed the staff finds the modification is not innovative and instead appears to maximize development potential contrary to criteria of approval. Staff recommend the application materials be revised to provide further justification and or reduce residential unit size as the larger unit size is a factor in site constraints. Present on screen is an excerpt of the concept development plan with landscape

[02:29:03] buffers indicated in dark green. Buffer widths are reduced from 15 feet down to 10, seven and a half and two. On the top portion of the screen is the southern frontage of Russell Branch Parkway where it is seven and a half feet with the two foot on the right hand side and on the bottom side of the screen. The bottom right is the 10-foot section. The general plan establishes design guidelines for development and encourage innovation in architectural site and landscape design.

[02:29:38] Application provides universal design commitments. However, staff recommend further revisions to include a minimum percentage of units provision, timing revisions, affordable housing, and to provide a commitment to exterior design. Based on the identified outstanding issues, staff cannot support a recommendation of approval of applications. Staff are available for questions. Thank you very much. Supervisors, this is actually in Mr.

[02:30:05] Mr. Turner's district. He can't be here tonight so it's unlikely that we will forward this on because he can't be here tonight and we want to make sure that I mean what may for the TLUC or something but we probably won't support it to anything else because we definitely want to be able to talk on this application. You have questions for the applicant put your light on, I'm sorry for staff put your light on. Ms. Bricksman? Thank you. Oh, Ms. Glass, listen, I'll call on you, but you got to be a little faster than that from here on, but go on. Ms. Glass. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[02:30:45] Can an asphalt trail be installed south of the site on Russell Branch Parkway if it's entirely placed within the VDOT right away? Could you be more specific on the exact location that you're describing? Okay. It's like on the eastern portion, I believe that's what I'm talking about.

[02:31:11] Along the frontage? Yes. A shared use path is being provided along Russell Branch Parkway as a part of this application. It is. It is a 10-foot wide shared use path, asphalt treated. Okay. Mr. Bricksman. Thank you.

[02:31:36] Staff identified an issue with the unit sizes in that a concern that the unit size that they're providing a commitment of 50 percent of the units will be a maximum of the 2,600 square feet. Why is that an outstanding issue?

[02:31:53] The general plan designates single-family attached units within the place type as a complementary use and only multifamily stacked as a core use. Additionally, that specificity of small lot single-family attached, 2,600 square feet of livable space is the county average for townhomes.

[02:32:13] Staff are evaluating this without specific square footage designated in the plan as less than the county average. Okay. So the issue is that they haven't made a commitment to doing a certain number of units that are less than the county average? That's correct.

[02:32:29] Okay. Okay. And has the applicant addressed that issue? Defer to the applicant for additional details, but... But as far as you know, they haven't? They're providing the commitment for that 50% minimum. It is really the square footage of that commitment that staff have the outstanding issue with.

[02:32:45] Okay. Would staff be more comfortable if they made a commitment that the other 50% would only be 2,000 square feet? Is that something that staff would be looking for? If that is something that the board would be recommending, staff would be supportive of. Interesting. Okay. Okay. I do have an issue with the way the language is in the application, because you could have 50% of them at 2,600, and then the other 50%, the way I read it, maybe I'm wrong, the other 50% could be like 2400. Am I reading that correctly? The commitments do not provide

[02:33:23] specificity of what the remainder would be. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think every question I actually had even would be for the applicant or you answered it already while you when you were giving your presentation. So I'm good. Thank you. Good evening. How are you? Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the board. I'll wait for my presentation to come

[02:33:43] up before I start.

[02:34:04] Good evening again. Oops, going too far there. I'm here on this evening on behalf of the Rooney Properties for the proposed rezoning of the just over 80 acre property known as Belmont Cove, which is outlined in dark red on the image on the screen. The screen image that you see is from the original Belmont Executive Center rezoning from the early 2000s. This was when keynote employment policies were in place. Suburban office buildings with large parking areas were in vogue at that time and you had that as the rationale for this original approval. You've seen a number of rezonings come in recently around this site namely Belmont Executive Plaza and Belmont Park to convert some of the suburban office into residential in line with what the suburban mixed-use place type calls for. It's interesting to

[02:34:44] note for this site we have a hundred foot setback on the north side against the viewshed easement in the driving range at Belmont Manor, Belmont Country And then along our western boundary, along the golf course in Belmont Manor Drive, which you drive to to get to the Belmont Country Club, Clubhouse, as well as the Conference Center, there's a 50-foot setback in place there as well.

[02:35:08] And those were put in place specifically to buffer against tall office buildings and adjacent to the golf course and residential area. Our design from the beginning in consultation with the Belmont Community Association was to preserve those setbacks at all costs. The application that we're proposing is actually far less dense than most other projects in the area because we're actually proposing a different unit type than other areas.

[02:35:30] We decided at this corner of the suburban mixed use place type, it's appropriate to have a correct transition, which is a plan policy from a more dense area into a more less dense area for residential and open space. So this area is ideal for a good microcosm of the suburban mixed use place type.

[02:35:48] We have a good retail core in the middle where the Whole Food Shopping Center is located, as well as some retail regency of belmont we also have belmont executive plaza which is on the left of the shopping center just north of that we have the existing office building and then just north of that is belmont cove across the street we also have some additional residential and st david's episcopal church there so this is ideally suited to be a complementary use to the existing retail and office and other institutional uses in this area this image is turned on its side from the

[02:36:21] the previous image but what it shows are the 78 townhomes all for sale on our site of which are designed in a way to front onto Russell Branch Parkway and to front on the main drive as it comes into the property. We have as I mentioned before preserved the 100 foot setback on the right and the 50 foot setback on the top of the screen there in conformance with the previous approval even though that's something we do not have to do. The setbacks for this site are far less than what we're providing.

[02:36:52] Those design features cause us to kind of shrink everything down into the site, which have led to some of the issues that we have with staff, which in my opinion are actually minor in comparison to the overall commitment we're providing for this site in terms of providing 78 new housing units for residents to live in.

[02:37:09] This is just a specification of the additional setbacks in comparison to what was required in the revised 1993 ordinance and the current Loudoun County zoning ordinance, only 25 or 15 feet of setback is required, whereas we're providing 50 feet and 100 feet of setback in those areas.

[02:37:30] Within the site, we have a couple of active recreation areas. In the middle of the site, it's more of a play lawn and bocce ball court. In the rear of the site, we have what is programmed for a hammock area, but will likely be a tot lot. That's one of the issues that Darby mentioned, which we'll be revising as part of our resubmission.

[02:37:47] received a number of referrals after the date we could actually respond officially prior to the staff report being released so we anticipate that issue among others being resolved in our next submission the pollinator garden is up near russell ranch parkway it's right adjacent to our public and civic open space as darby mentioned staff is now requesting a separation of active recreation areas and public and civic space the plan does call for five percent the plan does not specify that active recreation cannot be included within that area however as part of our most recent submission

[02:38:20] we have separated those areas and we have added a unpaved path connecting a portion of the area along that public and civic space from the active rec to the north to the pollinator garden on the i should say from the west to the east there in terms of the unit widths we have agreed to what staff initially requested last fall, which was no more than 50% of the units exceeding 2,600 square feet. The issue is what does staff consider to be an acceptable square footage.

[02:38:53] We had this discussion at the Planning Commission. We thought the issue was resolved at that time. We agreed to the 2,600 square feet at that time. Staff is identifying the garages as something that should not be included in the square footage, whereas in fact the zillion origin's definition for an inhabitable space says differently. The calculation that Darby was mentioning is actually from a document that we believe is from Tischler-Bice that informed the capital facility discussion back in April of last year. I have not been able to find that actual reference, but what we're providing is in line with the zoning ordinance definition of 2,600

[02:39:29] square feet. We have agreed to previously provide unit width differences. We had maximum square footages for each unit width. We have replaced that restriction with the restriction requested by staff, yet it's still considered an outstanding issue. For sidewalks, every pink dotted line on this screen is a sidewalk. There is a large amount of pedestrian connectivity on this site. We are constrained, again, by not going into the setbacks on the northern and western boundaries, and

[02:40:02] Therefore, we are only unable to provide sidewalks along the front load rear units, I'm sorry, the front load units in the rear of the property kind of at the top of the screen there. But there is a sidewalk directly across the street that people will be able to walk to and they will be handicapped accessible as well.

[02:40:20] For the buffer area along the frontage, staff is supportive of our reduction in building setback from 75 feet to 35 feet, which is in conformance with what Belmont Park and Belmont Executive Plaza were approved for. The issue is that within that setback, we have utility easements, which are covered in the red-hashed area.

[02:40:39] As a result of that, we have to consolidate our plantings into a smaller area, which is the reduction in the width area. But we have actually exceeded the ordinance requirement in terms of plant units within those areas. So it actually does exceed what the ordinance requires, which is why we consider that to be an innovative improvement.

[02:40:59] For parking, there's no issue. This is just a simple tabulation showing that our parking approved on this site or proposed on this site exceeds the old and the new ordinance standards. We have substantial profit commitments. We always have a slide like this in our presentations.

[02:41:14] We never have enough time to explain it. But there are a lot of different things in here that take a long time to work on and to agree to put in there. I would note that we have ADU interspersion and compatibility requirements, which comply with the new ordinance, even though this is a grandfathered application.

[02:41:30] We have two EV charging stations. We're fully meeting all of our contribution requirements, among many other features that are included with the application. We worked hand in glove with the Belmont Community Association. They submitted a letter of support for this application. I don't know if there's a speaker here this evening, but I think if they did have somebody here, they would certainly speak in support of the application based on the work we put in with them.

[02:41:53] The Regency Centers, who operates the Whole Foods Shopping Center, also supports the application, as did the Planning Commission with their recommendation of approval. With that, we fully understand there are some additional things we need to clean up. We hope to do that prior to the business meeting. If this is sent to the July 15th business meeting, we hope to do it then.

[02:42:09] So with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have. So let me ask staff and maybe the applicant as well. Do you believe the resubmission will be so great that this will need to come back for another public hearing? For another public hearing? No, ma'am.

[02:42:24] Okay, thank you. Supervisors, you have questions for the applicant? July then. Mr. Crony? Yeah, thank you, Chair Randall. So, staffs indicated that you're not providing all the sidewalks, and, you know, the county really, we have such a backlog of sidewalks, we cannot provide the sidewalks. So, what are the sidewalks that are missing? It looks like you said there's a 10-foot wide shared use path along entire property frontage, but what's missing?

[02:42:56] If you go back to the slide, let me go back myself here. It is really just one section of the property it's the rear portion of the property so if you look at the upper part of the screen there's the yellow units there there's a sidewalk that's not directly in front of those units we put one behind those units those those are all front load on that portion of the property we put a sidewalk on the right side of the screen going up until it hits the 100 foot setback and it curves in towards the active recreation area so those units would have a sidewalk adjacent to their property the units to the north of that i'm sorry to the west of that on the upper part of the screen

[02:43:32] there the sidewalk is directly across the street from them and it would be handicapped accessible because the driveways are there and because we didn't have an additional five feet to spare against those setbacks we had to place it across the street we looked at a number of different options to add additional sidewalk but we felt this was an appropriate option because it does give those residents access every other unit in the development has a sidewalk adjacent to their property so no nobody's missing a sidewalk because it looks like it said 17 residential units have no sidewalk access that's those are the units i just referred to uh staff just wants them on the other side of the street the issue is that we don't have the room to put them there okay um so

[02:44:09] regarding affordability so i i looked i had my staff look at belmont park and um for a 2 198 square foot unit it's selling for 779 000 so i think that's really expensive so i'm wondering if what Supervisor Bristman said is possible to look at, you're not going to do anything above 2,600?

[02:44:36] Is it possible to look at the other 50% below 2,600? We originally, again, as I said, had a different proffer in place where we had maximum size units for each unit width type at 16, 20, and 24 feet in width. What staff requested of us is to go to no more than 50% of the units above 2600 square feet which is what we agreed to there's just a difference of interpretation of what is livable space and what the ordinance requires and what the comprehensive plan was was based on and you said you were including um finished basements right no uh garages um

[02:45:12] aren't considered non-habitable space right but finished basements you're including and um right it's considered habitable space yes okay what are the widths again 16 16 feet 20 feet and 24 feet okay thank you mr kirchner yeah um this is obviously in supervisor turner's district so i'm gonna i think defer to him a lot on this given he's investigated for more but i know one of the concerns he had and i don't know if it has been addressed since he's not here and i wasn't able to ask him and that was the lack um of street lights um crossing the street at night

[02:45:51] etc um obviously this is a new development street lights are kind of important for these sorts of areas um is that being considered um is that something you plan on proffering in your new submission um i'd kind of like to know what the thoughts are there yeah we discussed that with supervisor attorney we will be proffering street lights along ruster bench park in our next submission okay great thanks thank you madam chair okay i whether or not staff said something and you guys agreed to something i think it's pretty clear that several of us on this board are concerned that you could have 50% of your units being over 2,600 square feet.

[02:46:31] That is almost akin to a single-family home. If a 2,100-square-foot home is going for $800,000, 50% of these will be million-dollar homes. They will be million-dollar homes. That's not what we need anymore in Loudoun County.

[02:46:48] So I'd like to see a commitment to some smaller sizes in this application. Do you think you guys can do that? I think, Professor Briston, we can rework that proffer to address your concerns, because this is, again, the language that staff requested. I know. I heard that. You said that like three times. So can we do it? The answer, can we do it?

[02:47:07] We can work on that proffer to update it to address your concern, I believe. Okay, thank you, because I can't imagine 50% of these being over 2,600 square feet. That's just, that's, that's, anyway. And then, can we look at the map where the natural surface trail is? I guess it kind of shows it here.

[02:47:29] There's a better, let me get to the better one. I kind of disagree with keeping this 100-foot buffer here. I think you're really constraining yourself where you don't need to constrain yourself. I mean, I'm not a land use planner, but, I mean, this is a road.

[02:47:44] So, I mean, you're not even close to the golf course. I don't know how wide the road is, but you could do your sidewalks. You could do more active rec if you were to not honor that 100-foot. And I don't know if that was a requirement from Belmont to get their support or not.

[02:48:01] He's nodding. But, okay. It's important. Can we look at something maybe here we talked about, you know, when we talked earlier today. Would you guys look at maybe putting, like, a dog park here? As we discussed earlier, Supervisor Bristol, we can take a look at that.

[02:48:18] Okay, thank you. See if it's even a permitted use in their revised 93 ordinance, as well as if we can put up some sort of fence structures or anything. But, again, we need to check with the community association first. Well, we also need to ask Supervisor Turner, because this is not my district, and to see what he would think. I mean, he's a dog guy.

[02:48:34] But also, and we talked about it earlier, I would love to see some kind of investigation of continuing that natural surface trail around here. I know it doesn't satisfy staff for the sidewalks, but at least it's something that adds some more passive recreation to this.

[02:48:51] Since you're already doing the natural surface, why not kind of wrap it around was what I was thinking. And the other thing is, are you using any of your capital facilities to make any sort of goodwill contributions to the schools that are going to be impacted?

[02:49:08] We are not. Okay. Okay, maybe I'll talk to Supervisor Turner and see what he thinks. Okay, thank you. So, clearly, we've said more than once it's going to be a resubmission. Clearly, there's some things to work on. It doesn't make, I don't think, a lot of sense for me to ask a lot of questions right now about this application.

[02:49:25] We know there's some things that's going to be worked on. And because the supervisor in this district is not here, and we will talk to him about it as well. After he talks to you all, if I do have questions, suggestions, thoughts, I will give you a call, Mr. Romeo, and we can have that conversation.

[02:49:40] I just don't know if I need to take up a whole lot of time doing something on an application that's going to probably significantly change, because why take up that time right now? So I'll do that at another time, okay? Do we have anybody from the community in the room who would like to speak on this application?

[02:49:57] none, I have texted Supervisor Turner, and I'm going to make a motion to send this application to the TLUC meeting, to the July TLUC meeting. I make a motion to send this application to the July TLUC meeting.

[02:50:17] Thank you. It's in July. It's in July. I made a motion second by Supervisor Turner to send, I mean, the Turner to send to the July TLUC meeting. My lord. Well, not my lord, But, you know, this is the question that you like to, you like meetings, great shows.

[02:50:42] Supervisor Le Turner, would you like to speak of? I would. I didn't ask any questions for the reasons that you said, Madam Chair. I will just give feedback that as of now, my hangups on this would be, number one, the setback from Russell Branch is just not significant enough.

[02:50:59] It needs to be a bigger setback. You just don't want homes that close. And then I understand kind of the technicalities on the sidewalks, but I'm not sure that I'm buying that that's okay in a brand new community. Macro level, just simply put, I think they're all trying to cram too much into a small space.

[02:51:19] That's the bottom line. I understand the economics. I understand we're trying to maximize whatever the valuation is here, but it's just too much. And so, therefore, compromises end up getting made. And I know the board really wants more housing and all that, but I think we still need to try to maintain the quality and standard of the housing that we do approve, and this is falling short at this point, but there'll be a resubmission, and I'm sure my colleagues at TLAC will work on it, so I'll certainly evaluate it at that time.

[02:51:45] Thank you. Good. I would, as the maker of the motion, I will close by saying I associate myself with all of Ms. Letourneau's comments, and I'm somebody who really believes we need more of a diverse housing type in Loudoun County, but we just have some work to do in this application.

[02:52:02] which is okay. We will get the work done. So I made the motion seconded by Mr. Letourneau to go to the July TLUC meeting. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That, Mr. Quinney, why is your lie done? Okay. Well, that motion will pass 8-0, 7-0-2. I'm sorry.

[02:52:22] Thank you very much. Supervisors, let's take a 15, 20 minute break. No kidding. 20 minutes,

[02:52:31] nothing more than that and then we should go eat something thanks we are at item okay we are back

[03:17:49] and it's it as it turns out both of the um next ones that we have have two speakers each not to mention rory and denise are already at the table so i guess we're gonna do i guess we're gonna do this one because you guys are at the table already you are there so we're gonna do this item exactly we were just trying to follow the agenda you're good you are good we're ready thank you good evening my name is allison britain with the department of planning and zoning and i'm here today to present the application for greenfield farm rezoning the subject property is 174.4 acres located east of evergreen mills road

[03:18:28] south of shreve mill road and north of hoagland mill road in the catoctin election district the property is zoned agricultural rural one ar1 and located in the transition small lot neighborhood place type in the transition policy area this is a grandfathered application and was reviewed under the revised 1993 zoning ordinance. The applicant is requesting to rezone the subject property from agricultural use to residential and commercial zoning districts for the development of 518 total residential dwelling units comprised of 496 single-family detached and 22 multi-family attached as well as 44,256 square feet of commercial uses. The applicant's requesting

[03:19:08] three special exceptions to permit gas pumps accessory to a convenience store, to permit a a restaurant with a drive-thru use and to permit an exception to Article 7 to reduce the minimum lot width for certain lots from 40 feet to 30 feet. The applicants additionally requesting a minor special exception increase the maximum square foot permitted of retail uses from 4,000 to 5,000 to 6,000 square feet.

[03:19:33] The applicants requesting a number of zoning modifications and a subdivision waiver primarily to reduce yard requirements, allowances for single-family detached units to be served by private streets and to exempt certain private alleyways from tree planting requirements, reduce open space buffer between the commercial and residential land bays, and to increase the total area devoted to retail from 3% to just under 6%. Here is a view of the concept development plan. The proposed extension of Cross General Boulevard bisects the property with the commercial land bay and the multifamily located in the northeastern corner. There are archaeological

[03:20:10] sites and a historic house located in the south. The lot colors symbolize the different lot types shown in the legend here. There is a bald eagle nest proximate to the site and the applicant's committed to provide a 660 foot buffer area around the eagle nest. That's on the bottom right hand corner and that's the target looking area. The proposed development will result pursuant to the zoning ordinance standards in 62 single-family detached affordable units and two of which the applicant has proffered to provide his unmet housing needs units and two multifamily attached

[03:20:45] units. The applicant has committed to design guidelines consistent with the transition small lot neighborhood place type and is proposing a cluster style development pattern as envisioned in this place type at a density of three dwelling units per acre. The transition small lot neighborhood place type would anticipate four dwelling units per acre so it is lower. Staff finds the proposed development program to be in conformance with the land use design and environmental resource policies of the transition small-lot neighborhood place type.

[03:21:15] However, staff have identified outstanding issues related to heritage resources and fiscal impacts for board consideration. The subject property contains significant heritage resources associated with historic Greenfield Farm. The cultural resources survey identified a few sites shown on the screen here as Locust 1, 2, and 3.

[03:21:38] The site is potentially associated with habitation of enslaved individuals. The applicant is proffering additional protections to these sites, including a potential phase three analysis to be provided later in the development process. The Greenfield Farm Manor House is historically connected with the subject property and adjacent to the development area, though not included in the application area. This house has been identified by the Virginia Department of Historic Resources as an outstanding example of late 18th through early 19th century domestic architecture. It has been described as among the most sophisticated historic residences in the county with close connection to Loudoun's

[03:22:14] agricultural heritage. The State Department of Historic Resources has also identified the house as a historic site eligible for the National Register of Historic Places. The site lists the house and grounds on the Virginia Landmarks Register. The applicants proffering additional buffering around the house site and a historic marker. Staff acknowledge the house site is outside of the limits of the application area but recommend due to the proximity the housing structure and farmland be considered as one historic resource and recommend commitments to preservation in place of the off-site manor house if the existing structure cannot be incorporated into the subject

[03:22:54] application. The applicant is proposing transportation improvements in three phases to include ultimately constructing evergreen mills and cross trail boulevard to be four lane divided roadways with turn lanes, medium breaks, shared use paths, and traffic signals as anticipated in the 2019 countywide transportation plan and the applicants requesting credit against capital facilities regional roads and transit facilities contributions for those proposed transportation improvements staff has identified outstanding issues with these amounts as a general

[03:23:31] measure the 2019 general plan and 2019 countywide transportation plan anticipate mitigation of development generating generated impacts to capital facilities and transportation networks And credit against capital facilities contributions are supported for transportation improvements in recognition of a pressing need.

[03:23:52] Credit against regional roads are supported, provided the credits are to support improvements beyond those necessary to mitigate impacts generated. And credit against transit facilities is not supported by either the 2019 general plan or the 2019 countywide transportation plan.

[03:24:08] The proposed improvements to Evergreen Mills Road and Crosstharrel Boulevard have not been identified on the capital improvement plan, though staff recognize there is a regional benefit. Because they are not identified, staff have not interpreted them to be considered a pressing need and therefore cannot support credit against capital facilities contribution.

[03:24:31] But staff could support credit against regional roads contributions, so staff cannot support credit against transit facilities. The Planning Commission forwarded the application to the board with a recommendation of approval.

[03:24:49] Due to outstanding issues, staff cannot support board approval. Staff are happy to answer any questions, and I do have DTCI available as well. Thank you. Thank you very much. Supervisors, questions? Put your light on, please. Mr. Cronin.

[03:25:05] Thank you, Chair Randall. Thank you for the presentation. And so the applicant's doing Shreve Mill, right? The relocation of Shreve Mill is 100%. the applicant that's correct okay so the roads that they're asking credit for is the four-laning of cross trail and the four-laning of evergreen from hodgland to shreve mill am i correct about that it's uh from hoagland mill road hoagland okay to to which one to shreve mill or uh yes

[03:25:41] okay to line up with um clear springs right what they're doing okay um so those aren't you're saying those aren't in those aren't triggered yet in our um county-wide in our cip or in our it's in our ctp i know that that's correct both correct okay so it's just not in our six-year plan is that the issue correct okay um and then the live work units i know there was a question about them not Because there's 22 live-work units being proposed, multifamily, and the PDCCCC, I think I got that right.

[03:26:20] What is the, what's, you said the proposed multifamily units are not consistent with the definition of live-work unit as defined in the 2019 general plan. So, what does that mean? Are they consistent with the general plan, the live-work units?

[03:26:36] These units are consistent with the general plan as proposed. Okay, but they're not considered affordable, right? I think there's only two that are affordable. The applicant is proposing to provide, right, two of the multifamily attached units to be attainable units.

[03:26:52] That's what the zoning ordinance requires. And do you know what the square footage of those are? I'd have to defer to the applicant. Okay, I can ask that question. I think I did ask that question, but I'll ask it again. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Mr. Letourneau.

[03:27:08] Thank you. Do you either know or could you provide us with a comparison of the proffers and commitments for this application as it relates to the village at Claire Springs? I can give, as it relates to the credit, I can give a little bit of context.

[03:27:27] The village at Claire Springs application dedicated significant park land, which was part of the basis for requesting credit against capital facilities contributions. There were also a few different transportation scenarios. is what doesn't so does that sort of imply that it's lighter uh correct um the other one i would mention is um that the segment of evergreen mills road was um analyzed a little bit differently too um from a from an external safety study okay is that something you think you could get us

[03:28:00] a more in-depth answer from the staff in writing uh comparing just the proper pack not just the proper but all the different setbacks and credits and all those kind of things that are between the two i think this application is clearly sort of in some ways trying to mimic village of claire springs which is obviously in close proximity that kind of went first so i just would like staff's point of view on how closely it does thank you because hockton district caleb kershner you are next thank you so sorry no it's all right no problems uh so i have a number

[03:28:40] of questions i've already met with the applicant but i do have a few questions for staff um i think I just want a few statements, I think overall, I agree with Sue Rezoterno trying to mimic some of this stuff. What are the densities between the two, the Clear Springs and this one, I mean, in variation? This one's far less dense, correct?

[03:28:56] Because it's -- yeah. That's correct. And is staff comfortable with the density? Because I know some of my colleagues are concerned with the number of homes on this. It sounds like you said that was the case from the beginning based upon the zoning. Correct. Staff are comfortable with the density proposed. Okay. I am, can you help me understand, I think Supervisor Turner touched on this, but I didn't quite understand, in terms of Evergreen Mill, are you giving them any credit for that towards any of the various credit requirements?

[03:29:26] The applicant is requesting credit against all of the improvements proposed for Evergreen Mills Road. And as well as cross trails, right? Correct. But staff doesn't believe that they fit because Evergreen's not within the secure plan, right?

[03:29:44] That's correct. Okay, so I'm going to say my thoughts. I kind of have a tendency to agree a little bit with the cross trails because that is definitely benefiting this neighborhood. But Evergreen Mill, and so I'd like to see the breakdown kind of between the two.

[03:30:00] Maybe the applicant can touch on that. I honestly think that Evergreen, I mean, that road needed to be widened years ago and quite frankly it should be on the plan. But obviously we're adding more homes along that transition policy area, and it really does. And so as part of this, I'm grateful that they are certainly proffering to build that.

[03:30:18] I think it's a very important aspect to that corridor. As far as the historic home, have there been any updates in terms of in the last week in terms of I know they have kind of verbally made a commitment, but is there any written commitment in terms of what we're going to do with that as part of this application?

[03:30:39] Staff have not received any additional information. Would that be important to staff to have to make sure that, indeed, this is part of the full package once it comes, is fully fleshed out to the board? Staff will be looking for some kind of commitment as part of the application, yes.

[03:30:55] Okay. There was one other question I had. Are there any, I think I know the answer to that because of the, at this point, the small restaurant drive-through, et cetera, is there any limitation on what that can or cannot be at this point?

[03:31:17] There is not currently. Okay, I'd like to see that, and when we get to the applicant, what that's going to look like, because obviously I think it needs to be context-sensitive to what we're doing here. All right, I think I'm about out of time. Thanks. Can it be a Zaxby's? Ms. Bricksmith? Oh, Ms. Umstead.

[03:31:35] Thank you, Madam Chair. On the staff suggestion that greater measures should be taken to preserve and protect the Greenfield House, Is that an essential part of this particular application, or is that just a staff preference?

[03:32:01] Staff analyzed it from a policy perspective, considering the resource as one, both the manor house and the farm that's proposed to be redeveloped as a singular resource. In this application, the manor house has been excluded from this application or from most consideration, though the applicant has proffered a few things for it.

[03:32:25] So staff would recommend incorporation of a manor house such as this with architectural significance into the community or into an application. Does that answer your question, ma'am? Yeah. What form do you envision that taking?

[03:32:43] Do you envision that the applicant would fully rehabilitate that house? It looks like it's in really bad shape. I mean, is that what you, what staff is looking for?

[03:33:01] Complete rehabilitation or just keeping it in its boarded up state, keeping the plants from encroaching on it, keeping animals out, vandals out, et cetera, which is in the staff report.

[03:33:19] I don't know how realistic it is to try to keep that property kept up. So staff would recommend a range of things to the board for consideration with what the board might be the most comfortable with.

[03:33:43] Anything ranging from incorporating it as part of the community, which would include maybe like a, you know, a rehabilitation kind of on one end of the spectrum, or on the other hand, a commitment to kind of an off-site commitment to preserve in place. Anecdotally, I understand from the applicant that there have been measures taken to protect the manor house, but staff would be looking for a commitment to maybe like a long-term preservation in place plan. And is that just our preference or is that a requirement? It is a recommendation based off policy it is not a zoning or regulatory requirement okay thank you

[03:34:22] miss bruxman i i would agree with staff on that i i'm very uncomfortable with this without knowing what's going to happen to that house um and knowing that we're putting homes like right next to it if it's not if it's not going to be fixed um uh i wanted to know is this parcel subject at all to the Primag soils zoning requirements that we passed last term? I believe it would be yes.

[03:34:53] Okay so do we so I guess there aren't Primag soils on there so we're not worried about it? That has not been identified through the review but I'll let Dan. The Primag soils you'd be utilizing if they were pursuing a by right development for a cluster subdivision it would not apply in the case of a rezoning like this. Interesting okay thank you. The are these considered small lots because that's what we want in the tpa right small lots uh these are considered um small

[03:35:32] lots in the context of the small lot neighborhood yes okay and but staff has issues with number six where they're asking for all the reductions in the yards and the setbacks and and all that i think it was listed as number six as staff issue um i also wanted to ask a little bit about the adus it looks like the says the owner will have twelve and a half percent adus in the single family detached, and then they will have 6% in the multifamily dwelling units, multifamily attached dwelling units constructed on the commercial land bay as ADUs. So I didn't see that in here that

[03:36:10] there's going to be a multifamily structure in the commercial area. I'm on page 31 of 173. Is there going to be housing in the commercial area? Yeah, so I can explain that. If you're able to see my mouse here. It is this lighter pink color right here. This is where the multifamily attached units are proposed. They're proposed to be units above ground floor retail, and they are

[03:36:43] part of this commercial land bay. Okay, and that's going to be 6% attainable? Correct. Okay. Let me see if I have all my questions answered. I think that's all I have for staff. The rest of my questions are going to be for the applicant. Thank you. So tell me how much open space is in this application? The applicant is proposing about 48 percent of the site to be open space, which I believe works out to about 88 acres. And what's required in the TPA? The policies

[03:37:17] recommend 50 percent. Okay. And is all that open space what staff would consider is usable open space in other words it's any of it like you know the strip between cars when you park them in that type of thing or you know it's it's yes it's green but it's not usable open space. A good portion of it are the type of usable open space the applicants proposing several different civic areas including farm area for gardening community gardening park area central you'll see houses

[03:37:54] are located centrally around a big block of green in the middle. That's like another kind of community park area. So several of those make up that. But we still haven't hit 50%. Correct. Would staff have any issues if, and I'll ask the applicant this, I am very uncomfortable with where the multifamily ADU units, let's say, would be the LIHTC units are located.

[03:38:24] They're kind of away from everything, over there in the corner by themselves. I don't particularly like that, actually. So I'll talk about that with them. Do you know, I would associate myself with some of my colleagues' comments about the house.

[03:38:42] I mean, if it's not going to be refurbished in full, I'm not sure why we'd keep it at all. I mean, because it's going to get to the point where it's going to fall down anyway. And so if it's not going to be, it should be either refurbished or it, I don't know that it needs to be part of the application because what's the point of talking about a house that's not going to be there if we let it fall into disrepair.

[03:39:03] At the same time, I think it was, I don't know which number it was, hold on one second. I'm asking about the Locust 1 housing where you believe were quarters for enslaved, is that correct? That is, there are three sites identified, Locust 1, 2, and 3.

[03:39:23] With quarters for slaves. Are those going to be refurbished? I mean, this is an amazing piece of property. It really is, and it is historic and important in so many ways. But if all we're going to do is build houses around it, and, I mean, if I look at the Locust 3, How close is that LOCUS III, those homes and that CODIS Act, to LOCUS III?

[03:39:51] I mean, you are smack right up against what was housing for the enslaved. That can't be. And even closer for LOCUS II. That seems, and I'll talk to the, this seems very disrespectful to me.

[03:40:09] So I'll talk to the applicant about this. So thank you. Good evening. How are you? um yeah you all have 10 minutes you can sit you can stay at your seated or you can um feel free to stand at the podium either way we're ready when you are thank you and good evening uh denise hairover and roy barnett um on behalf of the applicant the orm family and we have um aaron steel with us from grove slade uh appreciate your time this evening and just as a reminder rory and i are acting as a consultant for the orm family van meter does not have this project under

[03:40:44] contract as a matter of fact no one does so as we move forward um i'm going to i am waiting for my upper time until her presentation comes up please thank you thank you okay we're going to turn our backs on you we still like you just fine but we want to see the presentation um allison did a fantastic job you understand the lay of the land for the 175 acre uh property between dulles toll

[03:41:18] road and evergreen mill road i'm going to jump right to the general plan this particular property actually meets a number of the requirements if not all the requirements for the general plan we have 496 single-family detached with 22 units located in the pdcc we are providing 89 residential six percent non-residential five percent civic we're meeting the requirements for the various lot sizes we are at 2.96 units per acre with 48 open space i want to note our

[03:41:56] open space does not include any green space within the right-of-way okay just as a note dtci requested that we put the trail along evergreen mills road in the right-of-way therefore we had to pull some of that out just to give everyone an example of what these lots look like this is a 30 foot wide single family detached lot um roy barnett built these up in a project known as the kentlands in maryland there will be 120 of these 30 foot wide single family lots

[03:42:30] we have a 40 foot wide single family detached lot might be familiar with this this is actually located in brambleton there'll be 114 of these we have a 50 foot wide uh lot there'll be 230 of these units and then we also provide a 60 foot which the place type likes to have varying lot sizes we believe we've met that intent with these particular lot sizes I'm sorry I'm there's your 60 foot which is pretty typical for this

[03:43:05] area someone mentioned the density per unit versus villages right now we're at 2.96 we'd be allowed up to 4.8 by providing affordables recent rezonings in the transition policy area we see Fleetwood North was at 3.44 our Cola farm was at 3.82 and villages was up at 4.38 we are providing under the 93 zoning ordinance the required 12 and a half percent 80 use for single-family

[03:43:40] detached and six and a quarter for the multifamily and we are also providing two additional unus these would be for sale units with household incomes between 70 and 100 percent just a note of interest under the new zoning ordinance only 62 affordable dwelling units would be required under this project because in the new zoning ordinance with single-family detached affordables you are given credit at 1.25 units per adu our house sizes are going to range from 2 000 square feet to 3 500

[03:44:19] square feet because of the different widths we're able to provide that variety and we have an additional proffer where we will have a minimum of 25 of the 30 foot units would be no more than 2 000 square feet so we have provided an additional proffer that would take single family detached lots on 30 foot lots not to exceed 2 000 square feet the commercial community center is a pdcccc district supervisor crony got that right and there's been some questions about the

[03:44:55] units here under pdcc you are allowed to provide what's known as a work live unit one unit per 2 000 square feet of the commercial center so the total square footage here is 44 thousand square feet plus so you're allowed to have 22 of these live work units these would be located above the first floor which would be a retail in line so that is the genesis for these

[03:45:26] 22 multi-family units it is in line with the pdcc we believe this is a good setting not only are they in in the commercial setting but they're adjacent to the shreve mill park everyone has pedestrian access we have bus shelters right across and across the street from the commercial center as well as along cross-trail Boulevard this this entire neighborhood is highly walkable and this commercial center just to keep it in mind Lidl and the first floor of the van meter office building equal about 44

[03:46:05] thousand square feet so a Lidl grocery store little bigger total use for we are looking at a retail excuse me total of about 36,000 square feet in retail 6,000 for the convenience and then about 3,000 for your drive-through I also went through your commercial center modification specs happy to answer any questions you may have on those we were asked to give we were given feedback as

[03:46:40] to what the look and feel would be the top picture is actually a 7-eleven when you go into the town of Warrington and the two on the bottom are actually from the Percival Gateway shopping center we feel this would be an appropriate look and feel for this neighborhood and are happy to we have pictures of this in our architectural design guidelines already but happy to strengthen the proper language if it would make everyone more comfortable road buffers are a buffers around the entire community are essential in in this particular place

[03:47:15] type and evergreen mills road north and south of cross trail think meadow brook farms when you drive into leesburg on the right hand side along 15 we have built this beautiful berm excuse me beautiful berm with all the landscaping on it and that is meadow brook farms i don't know where i'm going now i i'm trying to get back i don't know how i went that far not my first rodeo but clearly this one's a kicker okay so we have a type 2 road corridor buffer with 65 plants per 100

[03:47:54] it's 60 feet wide on the north it's 135 feet wide on the north side shreve mill road will also be enhanced with a 50-foot buffer and additional plantings again the place type requires that we have buffers around the perimeter of the site evergreen and shreve mill and a tree save area along dulles green dulles toll road give us this natural feel natural resource areas we have actual buffers around the locus one two and three areas we just want to point out there is nothing in our

[03:48:32] phase one that stipulates that these were actual uh slave quarters the area was denoted as having some artifacts in that further preservation study or a phase three would be needed to determine if there was any type of old house or old community in that area there was the only reason that

[03:49:04] assumption was even made is because it was a farm and it's not uncommon that you have tenant farmer workers farm workers on site but there was nothing specific in this archaeological report that stipulated to it being a specific type of of of slave home or site we're happy to share that information with everyone because otherwise we would have looked at this site differently, clearly. What we are doing is the 25-foot buffer around the site. The preservation

[03:49:43] plan requested that no further disturbance of the area unless and until you wanted to do a phase three to see if there was anything else there. We chose to do the buffering of that area. We have quite a bit of usable space throughout this project. The Orem Park, which is located along shreve mill is four acres with a walking trail we have shreve mill shreve mill park which is a acre and a half with a tot lot a pet station benches and bike

[03:50:19] racks we even have a park setting at the commercial center with a tot lot located in the corner and outdoor dining we also are providing a 11 acre open space that would potentially be used for orchards crops think agricultural uses We are providing a six-and-a-half-acre space down in the southern section with a clubhouse and pool, as well as an additional residential park that will actually tie into Evergreen Mill's 10-foot shared-use path.

[03:50:55] I'm sorry. Your time is up. I think Mr. Barnett's telling you your time is up. Oh, okay. Thank you. Supervisors, do you have questions for the applicant? Mr. Kirshner.

[03:51:12] I get to go first. Okay, we need to let him go first. I do represent Kentucky. He has such jokes. Thank you for the presentation. I'm assuming there's a few things you didn't get to. I'm going to hopefully ask a couple questions on that. First of all, just a couple comments.

[03:51:31] I appreciate a lot of the effort that you put into this. Some applications do not come quite as well put together, especially those this large. So thank you. I appreciate you being willing to tighten the proffers on the design. I've obviously recognized both of those Percival properties very quickly.

[03:51:51] Obviously, kind of that higher end or more rural rustic kind of feel and look is really, really important, I think, to me and to preserve kind of this area. I mean, I am saddened as a farm boy to see a farm develop, but I understand this is Loudoun County. And so I do appreciate that sort of thing.

[03:52:09] In terms of what I do not want to see is a Popeyes or a McDonald's stuck there on the corner of Shreve and, you know, the Greenway. So I don't know if there's something that you would be willing to look at it before we get to the business meeting as to what kind of drive-through that you're talking about.

[03:52:27] I mean, I think a coffee shop drive-through would be perfect because people going in and out and a meeting place and that sort of thing. I'm not sure if the high volume is really the kind of look unless you can justify it otherwise. So those are a couple of my comments. You can address those in a minute if you wish. Oh, and the other thing I wanted to comment on, the buffers, excellent.

[03:52:46] Thank you, Commissioner Miller. Thank you, applicant, for doing that. I think that's super important for the community, for Evergreen Mill. We should see more of those, quite frankly. All right, with that said, obviously staff brought up the capital contribution issue.

[03:53:03] I'm assuming you were going to get to that. I would like to hear your justification for your proposal. and what you may or may not be willing to do excellent i'm going to turn this over to mr burnett here in just a second but what i did want to point out is the capital credits that we are looking for we were we have a memorandum of analysis that stipulates that our uses could be supported by two lanes of cross trail boulevard and existing evergreen mills road so our analysis has shown that throughout the process so the credits that we're looking for would only be

[03:53:40] for the additional two lanes of cross trail and the additional lanes on evergreen that may be true for cross try i i mean i know what your analysis says but the evergreen mill it's got to be four lanes so i i moved away from there because it was so dangerous but anyway go continue and the other point i'll add to before i turn it over to mr barnett the information provided on this particular spreadsheet we were asked early on uh by mark mr miller and the planning commission to make sure that our spreadsheet was done in the same vein and with the same information and set up as the villages of clear springs so what this spreadsheet shows you is the villages of clear springs credits

[03:54:17] with respect to evergreen mills road we understand they had other credits for other additional items we only look specifically at their road credit in this analysis because all we're looking for is road credit in our analysis so i can't speak to other credits they got but i can speak to the the credit that we're showing you here the construction costs estimates were used the same format that villages used it's the loudon county bond estimate forms that those estimates were put together on and with that i'll turn it over to mr burnett just to finish up the comment if you

[03:54:55] look on the screen i know it's very small letters up there and apologize for the numbers being so small but you asked the question village of clear spring this has been submitted to the county it's into submittals and hopefully in landmarks somewhere. But the total cost on villages was 24 million for the improvements along Evergreen Mill Road.

[03:55:15] And they received, as the board approved, not they received it, the board approved a credit of $16.6 million against $24 million worth of road work, which turned out to be about 69%, right under 69% of the total cost based on traffic analysis and proportional uses of the road.

[03:55:35] and then got flipped over and it was based on some negotiation numbers that came about. Following that same format on the right, and again, we have our traffic consultant with us who's analyzed this three different ways because we also are processing -- we also have to do a traffic analysis through the Commonwealth, Virginia, because of the connection of cross-trail to the Greenway Bridge, and we did the same cost analysis of all the road improvements, which was $29 million, but taking out what the Orm family would be responsible

[03:56:13] for, which is two lanes across trail, which is what the transportation analysis suggested would be required to mitigate the impact of this development, and that came out to $8.6 million. So it left the county proportion share to be $20.8 million, but there's a provision in the county, the policy of the county followed, that the proffered credit can't exceed what the applicant would be paying in proffers so it's 19.7 million that includes widening evergreen as described from shreve mill to hoagland mill and adding the other two lanes to cross trail thank

[03:56:52] you you're you're well out of out of time oh yeah i'm out of time but they're okay your mic was still on um okay supervisor to crony so last time we talked you mentioned um the opportunity maybe to a letter or some kind of commitment to preserve the um historic greenfield home i know you're looking at doing it in phase two but i mentioned i think everybody here would would feel more comfortable if we had it in writing as a commitment um that it would be would be preserved and there

[03:57:28] would be a preservation plan yes and i did talk to the family attorney this afternoon and they are amenable to working because it's not part of the application it would be similar to what i've done in other applications over the years where this applicant would be required to get have the owner of that property which happens to be the same entity enter into an agreement with the county and they're willing to enter into and willing to talk with the county attorney's office and staff here and creating some sort of a

[03:58:06] maintenance agreement between that property and the county that outlines the measures that the owner of that property would take to keep it from as as what's listed in your staff report is demolition by neglect so i don't that we there are plans to have that house incorporated into a sale and some of this proposed improvements here we really envision that to be an agritourism business at some point in the future very similar to what i was involved with on a historic property

[03:58:40] in prince william county where we had a 1760s house and we were able we were not doing the development we were i was just involved in the house in preservation of the house and we were able to incorporate that into a winery and and so we we have some items we we have a second application with the remainder of the property we were including that those preservation measures or protection measures as i call them in that and we've already implemented most of those measures but this would be an agreement that makes that continue or have that maintenance continued until

[03:59:19] you know to keep this house at least maintained uh in a in a state so that it doesn't deteriorate any further and we would be glad to enter and you have those discussions that we can crack with the county attorney's office so that we can create a commitment that this applicant would facilitate getting that agreement signed within a certain period of time okay thank you so thank you for proffering 25 of the 30-foot units to 2 000 square feet i noticed that the lowest that you have is

[03:59:54] is 2450 with a 30 feet i think you've got a 114 and 120 well 120 it looks like of the 30 lot um 30 foot lot that would be 2450 is there any way you could proffer more with at the 2000 so it's more affordable the the item is in these smaller houses you know they're 2450 2450 square feet for single-family detached in laden county is is really on the small end there's not too many homes out there today at that market we have 120 of those are over 25 of the total units are close

[04:00:34] to 25 of the total units being proposed and we we added that commitment of 25 units at the 2000 because we really don't want to stymie somebody from being able to expand that house in the future and if you put a stipulation in there if they move in and they finish the basement they're going to be over 20 they're going to be over to 2000 square feet thank you mr le turno thank you um all right so i'll say kind of the onset i don't quite the 22 mfas over off the side above the red like the commercial units just seem really weird in this location as part of this project

[04:01:14] just it doesn't seem to fit kind of everything else there and i don't know how like would they be condos in 22 i mean it's it's you can't really have an apartment they would be rentals they would be rental apartments it's very familiar if you read both the ordinances here and this goes back to the rural policy area the rural policies in loudon for years has been to encourage live work in the village core and so you want to have some units there that provide some a different level of affordability another demographic or another segment that you can serve in things

[04:01:51] and we're looking at these as being rentals and they would be above the retail uh and you know know you're looking at a thousand to twelve hundred retail really viable there they would be with the retail in the village center we think that those 22 units would be very 22 units isn't going to generate enough but obviously the whole the whole complex but even in that is that really going to be a viable retail center it's a small retail personal services community services so just a yeah a handful of small kind of things okay um is the is the house that we're talking about here old or historic because those aren't always the same thing there's there's

[04:02:28] already a disagreement we've had two different archaeologists and we've had a historic architect I've been working on this house for three years you'll be historic by the time you figure it out will be probably I'm already historic by some people's name well I kind of agree with the comments that if unless we're gonna like you have to fix it up and do something with it or there's no point in really keeping it and then whether or not we should do that I think kind of depends on whether it's just simply an old structure or whether there really is historic value. I don't buy that every single thing in Loudoun County that's old is historic and needs to be saved and preserved

[04:03:07] especially if it's already really deteriorated. It's criterion C of the National Register criterion which really deals with the architecture of the building. So you could repurpose it and we would hope to repurpose it but i've been down this road before and i have a stone house at broadlands it's been there for 40 years and still is can't do anything all right so let me move on quickly so then the archaeological sites there's no structures there that's right so you've done there's been some preliminary analysis and digging but we don't really know what's there no the the architecture archaeological site we we have not proposed to disturb anything in that with this development

[04:03:46] it's an old it's a grouping of buildings it's a settlement of buildings around the buildings aren't there anymore right the house is there and the old pool there is a house there okay oh you're talking about the locusts or all the locusts one two and three those are that's out in the middle of a field that's been farmed for the last 80 years but is there a structure there and I know no structure there there's no structure there's scatters there and that's what's the thing is this has been scatters there's no structures they found no evidence of structures it's just these scatters of old pottery and other items that would be an

[04:04:23] indication of something now it could be a farm you know it could have been someplace with disposal we don't know but we've agreed to preserve those areas the original mill house is south of that the original house is off this site and it was down by the mill sorry thank you um before i go to miss brixman can you all bring up slide number 10 in the in the presentation miss brixman thank you madam chair um so was it a plantation or a farm it was a farm and we don't think it

[04:04:58] was a plantation we have all the history we have is that it was a farm it was a farming area and the orms purchased this property in 1940 and have farmed it since 1940 it was a farm when they purchased it okay um i is there not a requirement for active rec in this in this zoning there is a requirement and we are providing several active rec areas in this community so you're calling the tot lot active rec no we're calling the community greens the clubhouse the pools the tot lots where

[04:05:35] are the pools the pool is in the middle of the community if you go back to slide 8 it's shown right in the middle of the community there's a pool in a clubhouse facility slide 8 yeah you're on 9 8 keep going the other way 8 back okay well i'm running out of time um yeah right there i'm I'm sorry, Supervisor Bristman.

[04:06:04] You'll see it right. There's the axes coming in right there. Oh, okay. Well, that makes me feel a little bit better. It just was feeling unfinished to me because I didn't see active rec. More than 500 homes without something like that just didn't feel right to me.

[04:06:21] So that feels better. Okay. And it will be an HOA? Yes, it will. Okay. I agree with my colleagues on the manor house. I think that that needs to get resolved, at least for me. I can't just approve this with 500 homes and not know what's happening with that.

[04:06:43] So I agree with staff. I would prefer that it's included in this application somehow, or it's proffered that something will happen. Would you be willing to do the Phase III investigation on those LOCUS sites?

[04:06:58] The Phase III LOCUS is only required if you disturb within those areas. we're not proposing to do any disturbance within those areas yes that I heard you say that but I'm asking would you do the phase three so we know I would have to say I'd have to go back and ask the family on that one okay okay I think that now that that big hurdle for me is is gone I feel better about it okay thank you I'm done can you go to page 10 please so I am I am there there

[04:07:37] are too many unknowns for me right now for me to do anything with this application but feel uncomfortable this I heard you and I and Roy I have the greatest respect for you you've never done anything but been a straight shooter with me and I appreciate that I think what I'm hearing is a lot of we don't knows of things we could possibly know if we did a little bit more digging so saying that it's been that the you know staff tell me tell me why you all thought it was housing for the enslaved um and because that's where we got this from the staff believe that and i don't

[04:08:17] understand when you say there's no structure on this site go i need i need slide 10 please um because i'm i'm looking at what looks like a structure to me on this site so i i don't um i i don't understand oh god i know it i asked the staff i said i asked this thank you though mr crony they're gonna help me help me stop my time we're sorry we thought you meant on their

[04:08:50] no i did not i know you all wouldn't i meant i meant ours thank you okay now can you make that a little larger because you can you're saying that there's no structure here that's a structure right there i i can blow it up and get closer on my computer there is a structure right there and that is locus that's locus one so i don't know what you mean when you say there's

[04:09:27] no structures there there is i don't know what that photo is because we didn't provide it but i can guarantee you that there is not a structure on lotus one two and three all right and i okay and i appreciate that and i hear that i promise i need more clarity as to what's going on before i I can do anything here. I mean, I just do. I'm looking at, there's a straight arrow coming from Locus 1 all the way to here, and there's a structure right there. So somebody, I'll go out there myself if I need to, but somebody's got to tell me something, because I don't know what's going on, and I can't make any decisions with this. And for me, once, and

[04:10:04] Mr. Letourneau's right, everything that's old is not historic, but things that are historic are historic, and once historic structures are gone, they're gone, and you can't get them back, and so I need to know that I know that I know before I can do anything else with this application, and so I'm kind of in a bit of a stuck place until I know what's going on. I believe that I don't really have a whole lot of heartburn with the apartments or condos over the commercial.

[04:10:33] We see that everywhere. I think it's in a strange place. It's kind of out to the side, and I think it's in a strange place, but the living units themselves over commercial, that's not the issue for me. We asked for different housing types. You gave us different housing types. Not an issue for me.

[04:10:50] But I'd like to see the open space that's required. I'd like to see, quite frankly, the 25 houses that are between the Orem home and these sites, you know, you give those 25 houses, you're probably going to meet your 50% open space requirement because you're not at it right now.

[04:11:08] that might actually get you there. And so just, I have a lot of questions. I have a lot of respect for all of you all, but I have a lot of questions too before I can do anything with this, okay? All right, we have, as far as I'm counting, we have two speakers on this.

[04:11:24] I think I'm just counting two, not just, but I think I'm counting two. And they are Emily Johnson and Dylan Arthur. If you are here, come on up, please. Thank you for waiting so long with us this evening.

[04:11:42] All right. Well, good evening, supervisors. My name is Emily Johnson. I'm here on behalf of the Piedmont Environmental Council, where I've newly joined my colleagues, Jim Bingle and Tia Ehrman. I'd like to align our position with the Leesburg Town Council and the Loudoun County Heritage Commission in opposition to this application as proposed.

[04:12:03] Loudoun County has incredible diversity, and the transition policy area aims to provide a thoughtful transition between suburban and rural areas. This is important not just for balancing lines of development, but also for the resources that are affected as changes are proposed. First, while PEC also advocates for traffic improvements and acknowledges proffers from the applicants above their own needs to regional roads, we note that this additional cross-trails segment would service this community directly and do not feel that a potential favor to the county in hastening Evergreen Mills improvements is sufficient to avoid capital facilities contributions.

[04:12:35] Additionally, we are concerned that not only is the applicant failing to meet the required 50% open space threshold, which is a baseline benchmark, but where the applicant has designated land to remain agricultural, they have outlined no specifics on commitments to continue active production, provide a community garden, or how that space will remain viable.

[04:12:55] We also ask that the board consider that this is an environmentally sensitive site with wetland, floodplain areas, and bald eagle habitat. Further, we are deeply concerned with direct impacts to heritage resources, alongside lack of provisions for their future protection. Critically, we do not find there to be enough regard for the archaeological sites likely associated with enslaved individuals on the property.

[04:13:16] I note that according to the applicant's own contracted study, over 20 people were enslaved at Greenfield Farm in the early 19th century. At least one of these sites was found eligible for a National Register of Historic Places listing, and tests have already recovered over 1,400 artifacts.

[04:13:34] Therefore, it is not sufficient to have just two dozen or so feet of buffer with permanent residences abutting that buffer when only preliminary studies have been conducted and they point to significant archeological resources. The contracted experts said these sites could be informative regarding enslavement or tenancy in Loudoun County, and further research could tell us about the lives of laborers and a time of manumission released from slavery in Loudoun County.

[04:13:57] Complete avoidance of these sites as called for by staff and room for later excavational analysis or educational interpretation would be proper. We respectfully remind the board that the comprehensive plan calls for protection of site integrity and historic context for heritage resources in this policy area and note that the historic house and mill have been pulled out separately from these archaeological sites.

[04:14:19] Thank you. Thank you. Good evening, sir. We're ready when you are. Thank you for waiting. Yes. Hello. My name is Dylan Arthur. I'm a disabled veteran Marine. My address is Woodcock Court, Leesburg, across from the Ormey Farm, otherwise known as Greenfield Farm, in Loudoun Country Day School.

[04:14:39] I'm here to speak out against the complete and permanent subdivision of Ormey Farm or Greenfield Farm and the loss of yet another Loudoun County farm. Reston used to be a farm town. Now there's not one acre of farmland remaining. And Tyson's used to be a huge farm as well. Well, there's nothing to get a way of progress, right?

[04:14:55] It seems that D.C. will extend to West Virginia at some point, at least visually. This is the crux of why I'm here. The Democrats in Washington, D.C. want to protect us from climate change. What is Loudoun County doing to protect us from climate change? Well, whether it be the data centers going up everywhere or forests being clear-cut for a new HOA, the farms being bought up and sold permanently, completely subdivided, never to exist again.

[04:15:16] How does this affect climate change, you ask? Well, farmland being actively used, there's less CO2 being released in the atmosphere per square mile. Don't believe that? You might want to look into the water consumption of each data center on average. I'll clue you in. It's between 550,000 and 18,000 gallons per day. Mr. Arthur, first of all, I'm going to stop your time.

[04:15:34] Secondly, I want to thank you for your service. And thirdly, I'm going to remind you that what you talk about this evening has to be the issue in front of us. Okay, so you're going to get to that a little bit more and not data centers? No, it's right here. Okay, thank you. No, that's not the reason that we're here about Army Farm, of which property, my own property, lcds red cedar originally came from the point b here is parts of the farm were originally subdivided sold off and that's fine the farm didn't go away and should not it you see there

[04:16:13] there's a happy median here the county could allow nathaniel orme of bethesda maryland to sell part of this farm but only a certain percentage of what remains and require permanently that a certain amount of acres of the farm be required to stay agriculture remain as a working farm loudon has done this with eastland farm and round hill so there's no reason it can't be done here preserve and protect loudon county farms and what little remains of them i'll close with this i personally wrote owner nathaniel orm a certified letter on november of 2023 offering my help with this farm help with repairs learn to work the farm because i didn't want exactly what's happening

[04:16:50] today he never responded to me no surprise but i at least put myself out there and offered to help I understand after Mr. Ormey Sr. passed away, the farm became a lot to manage, and thus, with a lot of other reasons, we're here today. But it doesn't have to go down like this.

[04:17:07] Compromise and require at least a percentage, maybe 50% or more, of Ormey Farm be required to be permanently agricultural and be required to be a working farm. The rest can be sold off. Everybody wins. If anybody has any questions, I would kindly welcome them. Thank you, sir. And again, thank you for your service.

[04:17:22] Thank you. Okay, Mr. Crony, would you like to make a motion, or I can, if you'd like to make a motion. Oh, well, Mr. Tluck, I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on right now. No, I said it's 2Tluck. Is that what you said? Okay, we'll make the motion you want to make, Mr. Kirshner.

[04:17:42] Okay, so my motion is to move the Board of Supervisors for Leji 203, 23, excuse me, 0065. It's contagious. I know it, I'm sorry. greenfield farm rezoning zmap 2023-0003 specs to 2023-0008 specs 2024-0022 specs 2024-0023

[04:18:09] SPMI 2023-0004, ZMOD 2023-0012, ZMOD-2023-0013, ZMOD-2023-0014, ZMOD 2023-0015, we'll get there, ZMOD-2024-0009, and Platt 2024-0249 to the July 15, 2025 Board of Supervisors Business meeting for action.

[04:18:46] I think you just used up all your time making the motion. That's what I think you just did. That's a good point. All right. So first of all, just a couple of comments to those folks who spoke. If you recall, and this was rezoned under the 2016-2019 Board, Um, it was, um, to allow this, basically this level of density, so, um, and we have something in Virginia, you know, you, you have certain land right uses, so I don't like seeing a beautiful farm like this either going into housing, but people have certain property

[04:19:24] rights and, um, we have requirements, certain requirements to respect them. It doesn't mean we have to accept everything in this application, but I do think we, uh, um, I want to remind people that that's why we are where we are on this. Now, and it's also TBA, it's no longer agricultural, or AR1 or AR2.

[04:19:43] The one thing, I'm moving it to the next meeting, assuming I get enough support for this, because we don't have time to move it to TLOC, but with that, I say this to the application, to the applicant, it's really important to me that a number of the comments that my colleagues have made are certainly addressed.

[04:20:00] So part of me moving into the July 15th meeting is an attempt to put some pressure on getting this done so that you can make a certain deadline I would assume you would not like to go through the August recess and wait till September because I would I won't hesitate to move it to September if we can't kind of get to where we need to get or move it to September for the another TLUG meeting in the future if we can't seem to get where we are but with that said I think it's a good application I think you've done a lot of really good things that are meeting a lot of needs we have very few single-family home developments in loudon county hopefully this is the last our new ones coming

[04:20:39] online hopefully this is the last one in my district that that i'll have to go through but with that said a couple things i'd like to see tightened up from personal perspective i do think that it's important to tighten up the manor house that's been spoken to and directly with a number of folks up here we need to really know is this a historical home that we need to preserve, and if so, we need some -- tighten up a letter of commitment to that and what that will look like and get, you know, a level of majority approval for that.

[04:21:14] I'm not -- I don't have a necessary problem with the commercial in terms of where it's located. I assume there -- is there going to be an exit on and off right there or no? Is it just going across? We don't know yet. I don't have much time. There's an existing exit off Greenway, if that's what you're asking.

[04:21:30] Yes. Well, I know there's existing, so that will tie in. Okay. So it does make sense to me to have a small commercial there. over on the green greenway site and you just talk talk to al van hike it was contemplated when they created the tpa back in whatever um that there would be small commercial in the tpa with that said i i think the big thing that we really need to hear is is i'm i'm all for giving you credits on evergreen mill i'm still kind of up in the air on the other um so perhaps some tightening of that as well thank you i'm out of time thank you mr crony uh thank you chair randall so um i i don't

[04:22:09] know if we can get there with the house i'm hoping um you know i i would prefer sending it to tluck just to do more work on um particularly the home it is eligible i'm reading this right now for the national register of historic places the home the main house the manor house is 19th century and it says the supporting buildings are also eligible so i like chair randall i didn't know there were supporting buildings in those locuses so maybe we need some clarity on that but i do one of the

[04:22:43] things that i do want to look into is you know the transition policy area policy three says that higher density will be looked at you know when we created those areas for change for affordability so housing units are smaller and more affordable than address the county's unmet needs so i appreciate that 25 of the 30-foot units will be no more than 22 000 square feet um but i'm wondering if we could do more of it i know you you're doing lot d um with the 30 um the 30

[04:23:19] foot wide lot but there are only 120 of those out of the 518 so that's like 25 i'm just wondering if we could get more affordability by smaller smaller size um units and yes single family detached is a great product and i know that's a desirable product um but i'm wondering if we could do more more smaller units to kind of meet the reason why we change certain parts of the transition policy area from you know the traditional zoning of tr3 tr10 to small lot you know to where

[04:23:57] we have more density but the reason why i believe we did it when the board did it was to get more affordability so um that would be kind of my second comment is is looking how we can get things more affordable i don't know if the multi-family can be a lie tech i don't know we talked about that a little bit it sounds like it can't be um but uh at least could we look at maybe more 2 000 square feet um units to make them affordable by design um but yeah i'll i'll hear i mean i i'm happy to send it to tluck as well if if that's if the board supports that so we

[04:24:36] can do more work thank you thank you miss brixman oh miss glass thank you madam chair um i i am i'm supporting for this motion to go to the next meeting but i would like to um as supervisor jacroni said i'd like a little more clarity on locust one two and three thank you mr brixman thank thank you madam chair um i'm let me be clear i'm okay with the density

[04:25:11] i have no issue with the density on this it feels a little unfinished to me um and I am now finally seeing the open space amenities where I see a kind of a circular pool on there. But I guess I just don't see a lot of detail on it.

[04:25:32] I will align myself with Supervisor Crony's comments on the smaller units. And, you know, your comment was that's too small for Loudoun County. But the problem in Loudoun County is we haven't been building small units.

[04:25:50] That's the problem. And that's why nobody can afford to live here. I won't say nobody. That's why a lot of people can't afford to live here. And so we really are pushing to get some smaller units that don't cost $800,000 or $1.2 million out the door. And I think if you adjust to create some smaller units, you might actually find the green space you need. But if you want my support on this i'm going to need to see a whole bunch more smaller units um which which and again i

[04:26:23] you know i feel like supervisor crony justified that i will agree with pec that um it feels a little bit loosey-goosey on the programming for that green space um i don't know if that's defined somewhere but where where we're proposing pointed out to me because i i don't think my office was offered a briefing on this i could be wrong i was i was away for a while but um i i would have i would have liked to have known if there was any more specifics on what the programming would be in that area i will i will call it north west but it may not be the right that's what it is on there

[04:26:58] um and absolutely need to know what's happening with that house and um and the language for me needs to be specific in that it can't just be we're going to work on it kind of language it needs to be you know the house will be refurbished and renovated by the you know 180th permit or something like that like I want it to be really specific because I don't want this entire neighborhood to get built and that still be sitting there so for me we need to have a time constraint on that to make sure it gets done I agree with staff I think it should have been incorporated with the application

[04:27:35] as a whole we've seen some applications like that with old barns and that sort of thing in the county where they they take those auto structures and incorporate it I understand it may be more difficult if it does turn out to be a historic site there may be some constraints I'm not sure but for me I need to have certainty on that and I need to have certainty that we are not dealing with burial grounds or housing sites for the formerly enslaved or the enslaved at the time so thank you so in 2019 when we moved this parcel to TPA it was because there had been so much

[04:28:11] development that went around it already, that it didn't make sense to leave it in the RPA and because the people who were in that area actually asked that it be moved to the TPA so that they can have water and sewer, which you cannot have in the RPA. And so that's why we moved it. When we moved it, we said that 50% open space was the minimum, and we go up from there.

[04:28:35] Not having 50% open space all by itself is a bit of a stop for me because um we were i felt very forced not forced but like we if if i didn't really want to move this into the tpa it just felt like the right thing to do but with these stipulations around it and 50 open space was one of the stipulations and so let me be clear that one i'm not supporting this to send this to a meeting i think this needs to go to tluck i think this needs a lot of work and so i won't be supporting the motion and that's unusual because i i really don't support a motion made by a district supervisor, especially one that I have, you know, well, I have respect for

[04:29:14] all my colleagues, but it's just rare that I don't support, but I can't support this. I think it needs too much work. It is insulting to me. I am literally insulted when I am looking at a house, and I'm told there's not a house. When one person says, we believe by all the historical data, this was quarters for the enslaved, and other people say, we know it was that is insulting to me that you you can't do this i need to know i need to know that i know that i know what's going on right here and i need to know with some complete certainty um there's

[04:29:52] too much there are too many resources in loudon county including county staff that can help figure this out for them somebody to come before me and say it might have been houses for the enslaved it might not have been houses it might be something there it might not be something there we no absolutely not absolutely not you don't you don't you don't get to do that and you and you can't get back history once it's gone and so anything if that is what that is anything around that would be absolutely inappropriate to me the house needs to be kept or you know kept or a marker or something

[04:30:28] but you can't leave it in this state because eventually it's going to go into a into a state where it's not able to be refurbished. So take it down, put a marker, okay, I don't want you to do that. I want it to be refurbished. But leaving it as it is, it's almost asking for somebody to come kind of break in there and be vandals on it and things like that if you leave it like that.

[04:30:49] So it's a lot of work that needs to be done. I cannot vote for this to go to a meeting. I would, if it passes, okay. But I think it needs more work in TLUC. And I don't get insulted easy. I really, really don't. But this was kind of an insulting discussion to me.

[04:31:06] So I'm just going to put that out there as well. Thank you. Mr. Kirshner, would you like a closing? Just briefly. I think, I mean, I appreciate wanting to send it to TLAC to tighten it up. But, I mean, we have over a month to do that. And I think the applicant knows what the marching orders are if they want to get each vote up here.

[04:31:25] So I think they have time to kind of go through that. Unless the applicant wants to be sent to TLOC, and I would assume that they feel like they can meet a number of the concerns that have been addressed. So I appreciate my colleagues' support to move this forward to July. Obviously, I guess the votes will fall where they fall when we get there, and some of these things haven't been addressed.

[04:31:43] But I think that is probably the – this is not, I don't think, super out of the ordinary of a lot of applications which come to us at the public hearing and need some cleanup and need some work. some concerns need to be addressed and they get addressed between now and then so just my thoughts.

[04:32:01] Thank you. Thank you, sir. The motion was made by Supervisor Kirchner, seconded by Supervisor. I'm set to send this to I'm sorry, which board meeting? July 15th board meeting. All the people say aye. Aye. Opposed? Nay.

[04:32:17] And so that motion will pass. One, two, three, four, five. Is that right? Two, two, two. Five, two, two. okay so 432 all right thank you um but but that but that but that would pass to go to the next meeting um lots of work to do thank you very much and we appreciate your comments chair randall i know you do and i appreciate you all thank you so much okay we're sorry for everyone who sat here for the um to to get to the hiddenwood application i never know what order to call these in sometime

[04:32:56] but we're going to do that one right now okay all right good evening one more time for the evening

[04:34:12] this is the the the hidden wood assemblage part due we are back and and uh we are ready when you are staff thank you again for the record my name is allison britain with the department of planning and zoning and i'm here today to present the application for hidden wood assemblage since publication of the staff report staff has received 10 additional public comments in opposition to this

[04:34:39] application as a reminder at the oh well kind of at the february 4th 2025 board of supervisors business meeting the board remanded this application back to the planning commission to receive staff review proper notice and a commission recommendation due to the scope of proposed changes staff have reviewed this revised application and bring forward revisions to the here tonight. The subject property is 28.92 acres located east of Dulles West Boulevard north of

[04:35:14] Hiddenwood Lane and southwest of Arcola Mills Road in the Dulles Election District. The property is zoned Countryside Residential 1 and is located in the suburban neighborhood place type of the 2019 general plan. The applicant's requesting a zoning map amendment to rezone the property to the planned development industrial park PDIP zoning district to develop up to 335,000 square feet of industrial uses. This application is a grandfathered application and was reviewed under the revised 1993 zoning ordinance. Since the board public hearing, the applicant has made

[04:35:51] several changes, including limiting the scope, and I'll go into a little bit more detail here, limiting the total gross floor area to less than half, proffering out data center use as was previously proposed in associated standards, reducing the building height to 39 feet, expanding building footprints across the site, providing building renderings for design, our additional landscaping to the north, and eliminating noise mitigation commitments.

[04:36:20] Here is a revised concept development plan showing three expanded potential building areas and the mechanical equipment yards fronting Hoodwood Lane. This configuration demonstrates parking areas along the northern, eastern, and western property boundaries and a reduced tree conservation area.

[04:36:40] The proposal heard at the board previously had two development options. So here is the original concept development plan configuration showing two proposed building areas with the comparison of the current CDP depicted on the bottom. And here is the comparison with that second original configuration.

[04:37:00] Here you can also see in peach a possible expansion of building area was previously proposed. Here is the building rendering provided to administer proper commitments related to building design. Staff continue to identify an outstanding issue related to the proposed land use and compatibility.

[04:37:22] The 2019 general plan anticipates the suburban neighborhood place type to develop with primarily single-family housing integrated into a walkable street pattern with no more than 15% non-residential uses, such as retail and service commercial, to serve the needs of the immediate residential neighborhoods. The suburban neighborhood place type does not anticipate many of the uses permitted in the PDIP zoning district, specifically industrial uses, as either core, complementary, or conditional uses.

[04:37:48] In addition for board consideration, staff note the existing condition of the site as single family housing developed primarily in the 1970s on the west side and the early 2000s on the east side, which is currently consistent with the place type. Removal of housing units from the county's housing supply may affect affordability in the county.

[04:38:06] The development pattern and use is envisioned for this area and may make residential neighborhoods more susceptible to conversion to non-residential uses through rezoning in the future. The applicant has proffered out some uses that are incompatible with the place type, including those listed here, most notable data centers, as was previously proposed.

[04:38:26] Staff recommend the applicant proffer out additional incompatible uses, such as wholesale distribution, warehousing, storage, contractor, manufacturing. But note some retail and service commercial uses that are permitted in the PDIP may be consistent with the 2019 general plan, if complementary to the surrounding area.

[04:38:43] So with that said, staff recommend that the development pattern change to include increased distance from residential uses and reduced building footprints to be more consistent with the place type. I'm sorry, can you say those last two sentences one more time for me?

[04:38:59] Sure. Staff would recommend, based off of the current design, to be more compatible with the 2019 general plan, increased distance from residential uses. Increased distance, okay. And decreased building footprints. Okay, okay, thank you. The Planning Commission forwarded the application to the Board with a recommendation of denial, and staff cannot support the application with outstanding issues.

[04:39:24] Staff are happy to answer any questions, and again, I still have DTCI here. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right, questions, questions. Mr. Letourneau. Thank you. So going back to the slide that has the comparison between the two applications, this version of this proffers out data center and is significantly less square feet in FAR, but staff also notes that it actually has an increased footprint, which means essentially that the buildings are wider, right? Correct. Okay. And the setbacks in the previous application

[04:40:01] that were data center were what? Do you know? They were from the north side. Yeah, from the Briarfield side. They were 130 feet, currently 110 feet. So they've been reduced from 130 down to 110 so they're actually closer than what the previous was and then the previous cdps had two buildings and this has three so the entire length of the that boundary is buildings that's correct although i will note the second uh potential development scenario they were contemplating here had three individual buildings but in the original yeah yeah

[04:40:37] there are are there potentially sort of flex industrial types of uses that could be compatible in this place type? In general those are not uses that are considered core complementary or conditional in this place type. Right. But should the board consider those uses staff would then recommend the design changes reducing. Because the design as it's currently constituted would be even further away. It's essentially a warehouse type of structure correct? Correct. Right and so even if we were to rezone this and we were to have it as an industrial site this this is sort

[04:41:13] the furthest away from what we would want because it's warehouse as opposed to any sort of compatible use with residential correct okay no questions further questions thank you mr crony uh thank you so how far away is this property from residential at briarfield estates the nearest home is about 160 feet away 160 feet away okay and i noticed staff said office uses cannot exceed 64 000 square feet was there a discussion about including more commercial uses versus industrial uses

[04:41:51] like like retail and service or commercial uses yeah some of those retail and commercial uses in the pdip zoning district could be compatible um with the place type but that's um not something that was um yeah okay all right thank you the staff have a time machine so we can go back and change our vote on JK2 because that's what I'd like to do. No? Okay, I just thought I would check.

[04:42:20] So if you go back to that, well, first of all, let's go to slide nine. That building rendering, is that the, is that the actual rendering of the building? That's how that would, that's what they're proffering that to right now? Correct. Okay. And so I have been, I have gone out and walked this neighborhood a couple of two three times um it's about 160 feet from the closest house which is that kind of that house on the corner it's a little bit of catty corner to it right well never mind i know that's true because i've been out there how much how much um uh well

[04:42:56] if that's the rendering would is that what would front front that property or with the mechanical units front that property the loading areas the mechanical areas are located along Hiddenwood Lane, so they would not be on the side nearest the residential.

[04:43:12] Okay, because they're located on Hiddenwood Lane. Okay, so, got it, I understand. How much more buffering could be there, do we know? Because is it any way to require more buffering or screening so that where we're closest to the homes could be not looking at an area that is not buffered, doesn't have any more agriculture around it?

[04:43:46] Should the board wish to. Ask for that? Yeah. Okay. If you go to slide seven, if you're looking at the three buildings, are the buildings sunk?

[04:44:02] In other words, for the homes that are in front of this, would they see them in Brightwoods? Would they see them? Are the buildings sunk into the ground so the buildings themselves will not be above the tree lines? That is correct.

[04:44:18] They are positioned based off the topography to be set lower such that there is some visual mitigation offered. And that's true for the first two buildings, but not the third. Is that correct? That is correct for the building C, I believe the third one, and building B to some extent, and building A.

[04:44:42] So a little bit of all of them, but the most actually on building C. The most on building C is where the topography sinks it the most and you don't see it. And then you would see it the most on building A then. Is that correct? Or is it the opposite?

[04:44:57] You might see it the most in building B, the middle one. You might see it the most on building B. Okay. I think that's all I have. I think the rest of the questions are for the applicant. I think the rest of the questions are for the applicant.

[04:45:13] All right. Thank you. Welcome back. Good evening, good evening, madam chair ready when you are you have 10 minutes, okay? Thank you very much. I would just like to start off by saying I want to thank all the Hidwood residents They're the probably the kindest most salt of the earth wonderful people. I think I've ever met on an application This is their sixth time in this room They've had four public hearings and two work sessions and they've had to endure over the past two years In addition to the seven total years that this whole process has gone on in the neighborhood So, number one, I'd like to thank them, and it's a pleasure to represent them as the applicants for this application.

[04:45:50] Also, I'd like to thank Ms. Allison Britton, who's been an excellent project manager, and Ms. Rebecca King in the community planning department for helping us to get to where we are today. We've resolved a lot of issues during this process in working with them, so I just want to thank all of them for that. I don't know, my clicker's not working.

[04:46:13] Oh, here we go. Oh, there we go. So, yes, so starting off with the prohibited uses, as Allison mentioned, we've prohibited data center. The plans that we did show previously, we could afford to actually drop a building, which did create a lot more open space on the site.

[04:46:29] But given the fact that we don't have that option anymore, we've gone with a layout that covers more of the site. We have preserved a number of different features, though, on the site. The thing that we are proposing now, though, is a non-data center, non-residential approach, which is what this board is looking for, diversification of uses in the economy.

[04:46:48] We've reduced the density by 55 percent on this site. We've retained open space in tree conservation areas, especially in the buffers where they're available today. We've increased our zoning setback to 110 feet for the buildings, which, as Allison mentioned, puts us 160 feet away from the nearest home.

[04:47:06] All of the loading areas are behind the buildings, and we have a proffer that states those are at least 350 feet away from any home on the site. And there's a restriction for using those areas between 7 p.m. and 7 a.m. This plan meets every zoning ordinance requirement.

[04:47:21] we have no zoning modifications this is a grandfather plan with no zoning modifications the property that i mentioned is the top bullet point on the screen here which is something that adds the the areas that you might consider that you would not want closest to homes are the furthest away and they're subject to this restriction we've also restricted the lighting which was a comment that the prior residents had in one of the handful meetings we had with them over the past couple years in open space we're over 34 on this site which won't access to the requirement there's one section of our property that has no trees which is that section b buffer

[04:47:56] area we have a cross section of that here we have a six foot berm a six foot tall fence on top of a two and a half foot retaining wall so it's 14 and a half feet of opaque screening with trees on top of that right next to the largest open space within the briarfield community additional landscaping we've added a profit commitment to provide contributions for the closest homes adjacent to the property. We've also added a supplemental planting landscaping plan or commitment within the tree conservation area where there are any gaps that may exist there. To your question, Chair Randall, these are the cross sections of building C, B, and A. So on the bottom, we're 16 feet below

[04:48:34] grade. In the middle, we're at two and a half feet below grade. And at the top, closest to Dulles West Boulevard, we're 19 feet below grade. Every building is 39 feet maximum, which is a lower building height than the CR1 district allowed when these homes were built and when the homes are in Briarfield were built. They were allowed to be up to 40 feet in height. If you're looking at the property from Asheville Court towards the building, you only see 23 feet of the building above grade, which is lower than all the homes on Asheville Court. As I also mentioned, this is the building design that we have proffered to. This is the building design proffer commitments that we

[04:49:10] have agreed to which will make it an attractive building we've kept all the optimized performance standard or strategies which speak to sustainability on the site from the data center proposal with the exception of air cooling generators which we obviously don't need anymore we've agreed to maintain the construction commitments because this is a non-residential use against residential we want to be as cognizant of that as possible so all the requirements we had under data center are carried forward here for miscellaneous proffers the one i do want to point out is the housing trust fund we are continuing to provide 100 000 contribution to that because there are many

[04:49:46] areas in this county that deserve to have residential this is not one of those areas anymore uh hiddenwood was originally subdivided in 1954 the homes were built out over the 70 80s 90s and 2000s but it was established as a subdivision before dulce airport existed For years, the Revised General Plan on the left planned this area for commercial and industrial uses, even though residents lived there.

[04:50:10] Not even in Hiddenwood, or not just Hiddenwood, but also along Evergreen Mills Road. In 2019, that area was replanned for a suburban neighborhood. And that did not change the airport overflights. These are the old airport noise contours in yellow dashed lines.

[04:50:25] These new shaded areas are the new airport noise contours, but it did not change, again, the overflights that occur on the property. The Hiddenwood assemblage in the middle there in green and Briarfield to the north of it are zone CR1. Everything else around it effectively within adjacent properties is planned or approved for data centers.

[04:50:45] The yellows are the approved data centers but not yet built, the oranges are already built. There's a lot of development to occur here. Even though these are zone countryside residential, they're the furthest thing from the countryside and they really deserve to be something else other than residential at this point in time.

[04:51:00] I receive pictures and videos all the time from the residents. They're fantastic at providing updated information. There are air buses that go over airplanes all the time in the evenings during the day. I'm just showing you a very small fraction of what actually occurs out there.

[04:51:16] There are oftentimes collisions, or this was a collision, I should say, with one of the commuter buses that provides employees to all the data center sites around there. It T-boned one of the residents' trucks. But the residents have to deal with construction a daily basis even though dulles west boulevard has now been connected to the site it did not solve the issue of construction traffic occurring on a daily basis and parking on half the road all the time hidden wood is uniquely positioned in a very negative way in this location and to speak to that further i'd like to invite scott bell up to the lectern he's a resident of hidden wood lane and

[04:51:55] he has some comments for the board so yeah yeah no with respect sir what we're going to do is when When we get to public, when we get to comments, I'm going to have you come up and do that then, okay? All right, thank you. He's an applicant, Chair Randall. He has to speak for my time.

[04:52:11] Oh, that's right, okay. Unless you're going to give him more time. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm not going to give him more time. I was incorrect, come on up. I'm not going to give you more time, but I'm going to give him the time, though. Hello, sir. Good evening, Chair Randall, and good evening to the members of the Board of Supervisors.

[04:52:27] My name is Scott Bell, and I live on Hiddenwood Lane with my wife, Lisa. I want to thank you on behalf of all the Hiddenwood residents for considering our application once again. We heard your concerns last summer when we made a number of changes to address those concerns.

[04:52:45] Our proposed application continues to respect Briarfield Estates, and it appropriately transitions to the land uses on the surrounding properties. We have always been respectful of this public review process. As difficult as this process has been for us, we have waited patiently, and we have addressed each concern that has been presented to us.

[04:53:09] This application provides a solution for all parties. It is extremely difficult to hear the concerns of others without our concerns being fully understood. We submitted this application out of necessity and ask that you realize that we are trapped here, that our community faces a fate that neighboring communities never could.

[04:53:31] Our location and access are unique, and our suffering is unique as well. I don't think people have truly considered all that we have endured these past years. In this application, if it is approved, we will no longer have to drive through a construction zone.

[04:53:53] We will no longer have to feel the rumble of jumbled jets that shake our homes in the middle of the night. We will no longer have to be worried about when the property in front of our homes will become a data center, and we will no longer have to witness our neighborhood transition into an industrial park.

[04:54:14] The stress of all of these concerns will be removed from our collective minds with your support. We are just trying to do the right thing, provide the county with the land use it can be proud of, and allow myself and my neighbors the ability to leave this place with dignity and respect.

[04:54:33] The last thing I just want to say to you, Chair and members, is this. These people right here, they're not 20-somethings, they're not 30-somethings. The majority of these people are 50, and we have residents that are in their 80s.

[04:54:50] As you said about a historical site, once it's gone, it's gone. The good Lord gives us the gift of time. And that's one of those commodities that we can't get back. Most of our children are grown. We have grandchildren. We have aging parents. And we have been patient, and we have been in a holding pattern.

[04:55:09] So I urge you to consider what we're proposing before you this evening. I want to thank you so much for your time, and thank you for your service to this great county. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. What is your name again, sir? Scott Bell.

[04:55:25] Mr. Bell, thank you very much. Yes, ma'am. Are you all finished? I have nothing else to add, Chair Randall. Okay, thank you. Supervisors, questions, please. Mr. or comments are for the applicant. Mr. Letourneau.

[04:55:41] Questions for the applicant. So building B is only sunk about two and a half feet, right? That's correct. Okay, I just wanted to be responsive to what the Chair was asking before. So explain why there does have to be three buildings on this site and why we couldn't have retained the two.

[04:56:01] So when we dropped the square footage, we had two-story data centers. So we dropped the square footage considerably. We even dropped the buildings down to two to make up at least some aspect of that back. Make up some aspect of what back? To make up some aspect of the lost revenue of a data center.

[04:56:17] Okay. So it's really about the valuation. There is a big consideration of that, yes. But you won't disclose what the valuation is. I cannot, sir. I've asked many times, and I don't know what exactly the offer is, right? Correct. I cannot disclose that information.

[04:56:33] Was it fair to say that when we have had complaints about any of the construction issues and any of the parked vehicles and all that, that we have been responsive to try to address those? Yes, I would say that's accurate. And it is clear right now.

[04:56:50] It was today. I check it all the time personally. So I understand some of those pictures are bad, but those were things that we responded to and tried to deal with. That's fair to say? And it's not your responsibility to fix all the issues, but there are issues. No, I make it my responsibility if I can, because I'm extremely sympathetic to what's going on there.

[04:57:12] Is there a usage for the property at this point? There's not a particular use, no. But it's really designed as a warehouse. It could be a warehouse, it could be a flex industrial, it could host manufacturing. But it wouldn't really be a flex industrial design that way, though, not any kind of consumer-based flex industrial, right?

[04:57:30] It could. We have not identified if it's warehouse or flex industrial or other uses. I'll just say that. Okay, but what the building type is proffered to, it doesn't look like the type of flex industrial that would be something that would be interactive. There is a flex industrial building on Loudoun County Parkway that looks similar to this.

[04:57:45] It's got the tall units in it. It's right across from one Loudoun. So something like that could be flex industrial. Okay. I don't think I have any further questions. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Kirchner. Yeah, just briefly, two things. I don't think you mentioned it during your presentation, but the loading docks on this are on the opposite side.

[04:58:05] where the traffic would flow maybe you did and i was half asleep it's only 11 o'clock um that's how far from the nearest home on where the actual noise and traffic would it's a minimum of 350 feet over so the areas yeah sorry over a football field that for briar is that from the property line or from the homes it's from the home itself so the closest home is 50 feet from the property line the the building is set back 160 feet from that home uh and then the building itself is wide enough where you'd have 350 feet minimum uh from the closest home to the loading area okay and what

[04:58:40] has changed have your buffers have your buffer um offers changed since from the last building i don't um so since we rechanged or since we changed from data center um the buffers did get reduced so if that's what you're asking so the berming and the tree so the tree conservation area is still where it was it's just a smaller amount of it okay all right and how many meetings have you had with of the Breyerfield community concerning this?

[04:59:09] - I can recall four. We had, I think, 50 or 60 people with a couple of them. One meeting, we had one person. Another meeting, we had about a dozen or so. - Yeah, I think, 'cause obviously, I think the concern here is that if we approve an application like this, we're in the same situation with the neighboring community that we're presently in, with the construction and the size of the building.

[04:59:31] And so, I mean, there may be some of that concern. - If I can elaborate-- - Certainly up here on this dais. - Yeah, see if I was a question, elaborate i would say that every meeting i went to there was a three different trances of people uh there was the people who were absolutely opposed to it there were the people in the mode who wanted to mitigate things and make things better then there were the other people that said how much is my house worth that's the reality of the reactions that i received at every single meeting and can you just briefly go back where you showed the surrounding areas and everything i just want to make sure to identify all the housing units that oh uh which image would you It was kind of an aerial image where it showed all the PDIP and commercial space compared to the residential.

[05:00:18] Right here. So I just want to make sure. There's only two remaining housing units sandwiched in between all this. Is that correct? Briarfield and Hiddenwood, yes. Yes. And obviously Hiddenfield is subject to this application.

[05:00:37] And then what is this over here? Are those more homes or is this another housing development here? Trying to see where the road is. so i think that's the area just south of our chrome our colonel's drive i believe those are homes through there just older homes that have been decided for years but sandwiched between these two are the only two okay right i mean obviously i think time's up sir oh it is i apologize okay that's okay mr crony uh thank you chair randall so can you pull up the previous cdp

[05:01:13] option one please i don't know if staff has to do it if the applicant doesn't have it Thank you, Allison. I appreciate it. Yeah, that one. Okay, so I'm going to talk about the 2019 general plan policy to protect our natural ecosystem. This property has major floodplain that is associated with the South Fork of the Broad Run. There are multiple streams meandering through the open and forested area. There's also areas in the river stream corridor resources,

[05:01:49] and there is the scenic creek valley buffer. So my question to the applicant, you locating buildings on top of stream channel channels um and i will note that the stream has been identified as suboptimal so the third building you see if you go up on the top you can see all of the resources in the top picture with the green and there is a flood plain up on up on that back end there's the um the south fork of the broad run so that third building are you locating it on top of stream channels and wetlands so the third building on the far right there if

[05:02:28] you look at the bottom image the one to the furthest way it is not included within the rcsr buffer or the floodplain it is outside of those two areas okay well i saw in the staff report that staff recommends reducing the overall proposed footprint to reduce the impacts to streams and wetlands on site so there is a there's a wetland that goes through the middle of the site which both plans the old plan and the new plan would have affected but the floodplain is not impacted by this plan. Okay. Well, you're reducing the tree conservation area. Am I right? Am I correct? Yes. That is the whole tree conservation area in the back. There's no question that we're

[05:03:04] reducing the tree conservation area. We're reducing the open space as well. But we've heard loud and clear data center was not an acceptable use here. So the converse of that is we have to have a larger footprint to accommodate the square footage of those buildings. Okay. But I liked what supervisor letourner just said why can't you just do two buildings that are um flex industrial it's it really is difficult to make the project work with only two buildings um so it's the amount of square footage we lost which was 444 000 i believe of data center use which is get that you didn't

[05:03:42] get that approval right that is correct lost but you didn't get that approval well based on the original proposal, what we have now, it is a absolutely significant reduction, I would say. But you did not get that approval. So I don't like hearing about the word loss because you didn't get that approval. So you never had that. So what I'm saying is that the two make more sense because that back end, I've been back there, and it is a very sensitive environment. So environmentally, that is a sensitive area. And I completely agree. The land use plan on the top is far better i would absolutely agree with you on that but the economics don't work for this site

[05:04:21] with just the two buildings well your economics but you didn't have the other proposal you didn't get that so thank you so first of all i think the first discussion i had about uh i heard about this was some years ago two years ago at least and we was it was a virtual call and uh i was i was moved by what i was hearing you know i think is i think that all the questions mr crony just asked were

[05:04:57] valid and good questions mr the things miss letourneau said were valid and good the questions we're asking up here is valid and they're good questions and they should be asked i think what we're missing sometimes there's a human element to the questions um people brought their homes in in the mid-70s, and something happened to them, and all these questions, you know, they're good questions, but something happened to them that they didn't ask, and at some point, what we know is something's going to happen to this piece of land. It's not going to, nothing's not going to happen.

[05:05:35] Something's going to happen. I am very happy it's not data centers, but we've also, we also pushed hard for it to not be data centers so now it's not data centers um listen i if if again if i have my way to get the time machine but i don't have my way and if i have my way i make two buildings and not three i would but at this point i i don't think we we can for me i cannot just

[05:06:11] keep saying this is what i want this is what i want this is what i want versus this is what's in front of me and this is what's happening and these people have been fighting this for for over over three years and and people bought what they hope were their forever homes and because of situations that had nothing to do with their choices they're being they have to leave their forever homes and we gotta we gotta see the the human side of this discussion not just all the other things that we talked about listen i'm for the environmental things just as much as anybody

[05:06:50] up here but i can't put the box turtle over the human being i just can't so you know i we we've kind of painted ourselves into a corner and i wish we hadn't and i wish we didn't but something's going to happen here and we're not getting data centers i didn't want data centers and i would rather have two and I think the motion is to move it on to the to the to the next to the next meeting but I think at some point we have to we have to let them off this merry-go-round we gotta let

[05:07:27] them off of it we can't leave them on it we can't leave them we can't keep doing this to people it's not right we do have a speaker on this I don't I do believe it's gonna be one second Jackie Clement, are you here? Good evening. Good evening. Did you have that paper sitting there

[05:07:59] ready for you? Okay. Greetings, members of the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors. My name is Jackie Clement. I have been a resident of Loudoun County for 26 years. I am currently an EL teacher at Freedom High School and have been an educator in Loudoun County since 2001. I've watched the many board and planning commission hearings of the Hiddenwood Assemblage.

[05:08:27] The one that stands out for me the most is the question Chair Randall asked, and that was how did we get here? I've also gone to Hiddenwood Lane and Briarfield to see what the impacts are for both neighborhoods. The biggest difference is the entry points to each neighborhood.

[05:08:44] Hiddenwood has to travel on North Star and then on Dulles West Boulevard. There are constant construction vehicles on North Star and Dulles West Boulevard. I've also come to learn that Dulles West Boulevard will be expanded within the next year.

[05:09:00] To my utter dismay, that four-lane road will be running right at the entrance to Hiddenwood Lane. I believe with all the future data centers and road construction, this will impact Hiddenwood for many years to come. If you look at the entrance of Briarfield, they are shielded from North Star and Dulles West Boulevard by using their point of entry and exit via Briarfield Lane.

[05:09:23] I know that data centers have been proffered out, and I know the use is being offered. From the plans that have been submitted, it looks like the current solution that is being offered is a vast improvement. The impacts on Hiddenwood and Briarfield are like comparing apples to oranges. Hiddenwood Lane would have data centers directly across the street from their homes, while Briarfield will be much better protected.

[05:09:44] Please do the right thing and make Hiddenwood homeowners feel like they matter, and that the county will right this wrong. has been going on far too long and has impacted their mental health in so many ways laura ingles wilder said home is the nicest word there is unfortunately for the residents of hiddenwood lane that has not been true for many years thank you for your time thank you supervisor the turner would you like to make a motion yes madam chair for your mic a little tiny bit closer please

[05:10:19] thanks i move the board of supervisors forward leji 2023 0070 hiddenwood assemblage zmap 2023 0004 to the july 15 2025 board of supervisors business meeting for action second um and i will know i i always will move a application to a business meeting for action whether i support or oppose it as that's really how we should um proceed so i said before that this has been the most challenging parcel i've ever encountered and probably ever will and it's been an incredibly

[05:10:55] frustrating journey um i feel and i understand the emotion that we have from the hidden residents because i don't blame them for a lot of what's happened here i do think and we're not going to rehash the past but i do think the letter just before the vote on jk2 that was supportive of that application changed the trajectory of that application and i don't think it would have been approved if that hadn't been sent that's just a reality um i you know it is what it is but it doesn't make sense at this point to really dwell on that i think the most frustrating thing for me

[05:11:28] is a year ago i sat in a room with everybody here at the double south safety station and i offered an alternative path and i have not been able to even have a discussion about that path whoa whoa Yeah, we don't, yeah, that's not, we, yeah, this is Mr. Luterno's time.

[05:11:49] The path was working with you directly with the county. It may have been a different valuation, but that was the path. And I haven't been able to negotiate or discuss directly with the residents ever since because they've always been represented by a contract purchaser.

[05:12:07] So I agree with a lot of what's been said. This, something has to happen here. This can't go on as it is. But I also believe, and I've also been really consistent that two wrongs don't make a right, and I cannot do to another neighborhood what just was done to these folks. And I didn't support that application that did that.

[05:12:26] So I've, and I'm still willing to this day, to do whatever it takes to try to find an alternative solution here and do something extraordinary that we've really never done. But if you look at the revenue we're getting from some of these applications, I think it's plausible for us.

[05:12:43] But at the end of the day, what this is coming down to, when you heard it with the back and forth with the applicant, is the valuation of the property. That's why it's three buildings. That's why it was data center. So if I understood what that valuation was, I may be able to come up with some other options. But I can't when I can't be told that number.

[05:13:00] It's not disclosed. And that's why it's so frustrating. So, you know, I'm left moving this forward but having a lot of issues with it because I'm not convinced that it's sufficiently buffered. Nobody living anywhere in that other cul-de-sac here would want that bill next to them, just like nobody living ahead would want JK2 next to them.

[05:13:21] That's the reality. Nobody would. So that's why we're in this situation. So I still hope that we can get to some other solution here, and I still remain just as committed to trying to find it and do it. And I've talked to many of my colleagues on the board about it, but I can't do it with this still pending.

[05:13:42] Thank you. Ms. Umstead? oh thank you madam chair um i i have to say that change next door is always really tough it's pretty clear to me that where the hiddenwood homes are now had has become not just because of data centers but also because of aircraft noise uh an intolerable situation for those residents

[05:14:18] still remember having seen the videos that the residents put together a year or two ago and I found their case to be compelling then the architectural renderings of what is proposed to go in into the Hiddenwood area to me those are attractive I do not find them offensive in any way the fact that the residents

[05:14:55] along Hiddenwood have proffered out a data center to me indicates a strong willingness to compromise with the concerns of the residents in Briar Briarfield I'm sure that I wouldn't want an office building to go up right next to me nobody usually does everybody prefers to see either homes or forests or fields but for

[05:15:29] something to be 160 feet away that is as attractively designed as what we've seen on the screen tonight i think is very livable um i am very favorably disposed towards this application I found Mr. Bell's explanation of it to be quite compelling, along with Ms. Clements' explanation.

[05:16:06] Supervisor Letourneau is absolutely right. He opposed putting the Hiddenwood folks into the situation they're in, and he's been consistent in that. but i find the compromise that the assemblage has tried to strike to be a very reasonable one thank you i think the difference is in the 70s when the people who live on hintonwood bought their homes the airport was already there uh and you knew it was there and you knew it could grow

[05:16:42] the data centers weren't the data center was the new thing on the other hand bryfield this bought their homes they knew the airport was there and the data center there and that's a difference i i mr leturna you have been consistent and you are you are it's two it's one it's two ways to look at and i thought i think that what you said makes good sense that you know two wrongs don't make a right and and and that's and that's why this is a struggle because the other thing i think often is two wrongs don't make a right but i'm not going to sacrifice one neighborhood for the

[05:17:19] other either so that's what that's what that's how I'm kind of struggling it is it is there is no great answer there's just not um and you know there's a lot of should have would have could have that we can do all day long and and you know and I try not to do too many should have would have could have unless it's only about me because I can only control my should have my would have

[05:17:48] of my kudos. But I don't know what we're going to have to do with Briarfield Estate. I respect those residents as well. I understand that's going to be something that's going to have to be addressed. But I have to take care of what's in front of me right now. What's in front of me right now is, you know, happy there's not data centers, wishing that it two buildings um wishing that hadn't we hadn't done jk2 wishing a lot of things but but this is

[05:18:25] where we are and i do believe that the residents of hiddenwood have tried to put something forward that that didn't say save us at all costs even if it hurts our neighbors i i don't believe that's what they've done i do believe that there can be much more buffering around the the building and the closest homes to Briarfield Estates none of those things that are possible for Briarfield Estates are even possible for Hiddenwood they're just not on the table anymore they're off the

[05:19:00] table completely and so if those things are off the table completely we have to look at what's on the table right now and what's on the table right now is is getting these human beings out of this horrible situation and getting them getting this getting this them off this merry-go-round as fast as we possibly can understanding mr letourneau that that you've been working on this understanding you've had meetings and understanding there none of these answers are great answers but barring something earth-shattering that will change between now and then i will vote

[05:19:35] for this application when it comes up miss letourneau would you like a closing sir yeah i do want to just correct a few things the the building that's being proposed there's not an office that's a warehouse and when the briarfield homes were built there were no data centers anywhere near there that this was before the days of data centers in loudon in this area it was industrial zoning but not data centers so i don't think anybody in this situation hittedwood or briarfield could have foreseen what has ultimately happened here i remain of the belief that there is a better

[05:20:11] solution out there it may not be quite as lucrative but there is a better solution out there and whether it's after this application or in the ensuing period i'm here and i'm willing to talk when anybody wants to so and i've said that from the beginning there's witnesses they even sent it to mr menchu so okay that is all and mr turner make the motion and i second the motion to send this to the meeting business meeting in July, July 15th. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed?

[05:20:49] That motion will pass 702 for this to go to the July 15th business meeting and we are adjourned.

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