Coraggio Consulting
Loudoun County School Board, Curriculum and Instruction Committee Meeting, Monday, April 10, 2023

Date: Monday, April 10, 2023
Place: Loudoun County Public Schools / School Board meeting (see BoardDocs / LCPS-TV)
Length: 46m (video)
Official meeting video (Vimeo / LCPS-TV): https://player.vimeo.com/video/816333816?rel=0
BoardDocs (School Board): https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/loudoun/Board.nsf/Public

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-22. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:45] Good afternoon. I'm calling to order this Monday, April 10th meeting of the Curriculum and Instruction Committee. The first item on our agenda is public comment. We have one speaker signed up for public comment today, so I will be allocating five minutes per speaker.

[00:01:03] And the first and only speaker today is Andrea Weiskopf. Seriously? No, I won't. I won't. I promise. I was taking a quick look at class size.

[00:01:23] Perhaps it is an urban legend, but I was told the reason middle school teachers have lower students is because they teach six classes and high school teachers teach five, and that was the trade-off, that middle school teachers had fewer students.

[00:01:43] That's one of those theories that floats around. Looking at this, 30 students still means a middle school teacher would have 180 students at 30 in a class, and a high school teacher would have 160 students. Middle school teachers are teaching six classes. One, so even with two planning blocks, one is a duty or committee meeting with your CLT, PEL, whatever.

[00:02:18] So I just want to make sure you're checking those numbers and what is the reason that middle school teachers teach six classes. A high school teacher teaching six classes makes 20% of their salary more.

[00:02:39] One more thing. I just lost that, I have too much time, I don't know what to do. Oh, it says that it's okay to have more as long as the division-level person okays it. It seems like that still needs to be reported to a central location because that could mean they okay every class to have 35, but who knows?

[00:03:04] They've okayed it. Finally, Black Lives Matter. Thank you. Thank you. And that will conclude public comment for today as that was the only speaker. With that, we'll move to item three on the agenda approval of the minutes.

[00:03:25] Is there a motion? I move that the Curriculum and Instruction Committee approve the draft minutes from March 6, 2023. Is there a second? Seconded by Ms. Ogadugbe.

[00:03:41] Is there any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor of the motion to approve the minutes, please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. That motion will pass unanimously. We'll now move on to our information items, as we have no action items tonight. And we'll start with 4.01, a family life education update.

[00:04:01] Dr. Ellis. Thank you very much. So this evening, based on a request for some information on FLE, or family life education, as we were discussing the new policy related to this subject, we have put together some information on the history of family life in LCPS and next steps moving forward over the next several years.

[00:04:23] And to provide this information, we have Amy Wheeler, our supervisor of health and PE and family life and many other things, as you know, here with us virtually. And so I will turn it over to Amy. Hi there. Quickly, mic check. Am I good?

[00:04:45] Okay, first, thank you for allowing me to participate virtually and also for allowing me to have this opportunity to talk about one of the content areas that I get to work with every single day. So one of the main things that I just want to reiterate from last time is that – oh, can you go to the next slide, Dr.

[00:05:10] Ellis – is that family life education in the state of Virginia really is regulated by the section 22. 1-207. 1, the Code of Virginia.

[00:05:25] and LCPS does follow that. We follow the standards of learning and we've implemented a comprehensive sequential abstinence-based age-appropriate program in grades 4 through 10. So much of what you'll see throughout this is going to be straight from the code and this very next slide is an example. The review of materials is all based on the code and it's the right of parents to review certain materials and anything you see in italics is exact verbiage from the

[00:06:02] Code of Virginia and this indicates that parents and guardians have the right to review the family life education program offered by their school division including written and audio visual educational materials used in the program so a little preview of what we do in LCPS is that annually parents and guardians can preview the materials by choosing to attend the annual parent guardian preview days and these are held at the beginning of the school year we generally do between like three or four days and we try to offer time ranges

[00:06:40] that work so I think we run them from about 11 a.m. until 6 or 7 p.m. so that parents can come by the administration building and physically sit down and review the materials and also our instructors are on site that day so they can meet their instructor and talk with them face to face they can also access the materials through their child's school library or office and that's a school-based decision on where they house those materials I will say generally it's in the library and they're made available to review to any

[00:07:15] parent or parent or guardian during the school office hours before and during the school year and we do go and update those at the beginning of every school year if there have been any minor changes. And then the third option that a parent has is to access the materials through our ParentVue portal and it's under the Resources and Opportunities tab. So there are three options all throughout the school year. In terms of opting out, in italics on the code,

[00:07:52] parents and guardians also have the right to excuse their child from all or part of family life education instruction and so annually parents and guardians are able to opt their child from all or part of the instruction at any time prior to the instruction through ParentVUE and this is the standard practice for all the other opt-out procedures we have in LCPS so it's like that toggle switch in ParentVUE and then this came up as a question at

[00:08:29] our last C&I and also it came through some of the feedback maybe through MSAC but the code states that the school board shall conduct a review of its family life education curricula at least once every seven years shall evaluate whether such curricula reflect contemporary community standards and shall revise such a curricula as necessary so the comments that were made were seven years is too long but we do annually review the materials to check

[00:09:04] for things like graphics formatting sequencing to make sure all the links and resources are up to date so we do that minor update every single year and then we did find out with a little bit of digging that the last formal review was actually in 2017 and so I was about a year off when I spoke in March which would mean the next formal review should be slated for 2024. I'm not sure how

[00:09:39] clear this timeline is in your room there but basically this is a timeline of the Virginia General Assembly where they made additions, amendments, or various requirements and it goes back all the way to like 1987 but for this presentation I dated it back to 2011 because that's when it really started to reference the addition of objectives related to dating violence and characteristics of abusive relationships and you can see sort of the pattern as

[00:10:17] the years progress and then there in 2018 and 2019 the prevention of sexual harassment using electronic means and then the law in meaning of consent and in March this was a question that did come up was specifically about education around consent and active consent.

[00:10:40] So I do want to speak to that briefly this evening. So I put this slide in there, and this is the exact slide from the 9th and 10th grade presentations, and it talks about consent being clear, coherent, willing, and ongoing.

[00:11:01] And so actually consent education begins in LCPS as early as 5th grade, but I like this slide because it specifies what clear means. Clear means that it has to be active. It specifies what coherent actually means. That willing means that you're never given consent under pressure. And ongoing means it must be granted every single time. So I like that this encompasses all of that

[00:11:34] and that the students see it throughout their lessons through ninth and tenth grade. And then the progression through the grade levels. In fifth grade, consent is starting to be talked about in their safety lesson. In sixth grade, it is mentioned in the abuse lesson around sexual harassment, abuse, and boundary setting. It progresses in seventh grade. In eighth grade, they actually start to define and have a consent lesson. And then in ninth and tenth

[00:12:10] grade, consent is talked about through human trafficking lesson stories. And then you just all the slide. It came up in March was about what resources were chosen and why, and so here's a list of the resources that we use: obviously the CDC, we work with the Loudoun County Health Department, program called Safe Dates, Second Step, Just Ask Prevention, which is now Anti-Traffic

[00:12:44] International, Health World, we have several textbooks that we reference, the One Love Foundation and Secure Higher Ed.

[00:13:01] I am going to throw it over to Dr. Kram to see if I missed anything, and then we can open it up for questions or comments.

[00:13:19] And we welcome any feedback or questions at this time. Committee members, any questions or discussion regarding the presentation? Ms. Ogadegbe. Thank you so much for this overview.

[00:13:36] I think my question is to you address the consent content. I'm wondering, since the last revision was in 2017, how have we been able to adjust the curriculum through your annual updates to address the electronic harassment components that were put into the law in 2018 and just obviously that is more of an issue now than it was in 2017 even just as more and more there's more and more activity online i will need to look

[00:14:14] specifically in the lessons but this is talked about i want to say as early as the sixth grade but i will need to look and make sure i'm answering that correctly but to answer your question it has it has been added even though there was no formal review that's i think that's your question right yes so it is embedded and we can get you a list of exactly where it is but we did it informally through the annual review okay she doesn't need the listing okay also thank you dr ellis i was

[00:14:50] going to say that as well but i would just also add that when the state does make additions and revisions like this they do provide additional information to us about the types of things that we need to talk about the specific objectives that we need to address you know those kinds of things so we certainly follow that guidance and like dr ellis said we did make this update when it came out in 2017 and 2018 we we say I stay on family life as soon as the general assembly starts meeting any proposed legislation going through I follow it so we're on top of it miss research thank you and thank you for the presentation I

[00:15:29] wanted to follow up on also on the issue of consent I thought I heard you mentioned that some of the lessons begin earlier than the slide lists them slide number eight has consent defining consent is beginning in eighth grade and I thought earlier in the presentation you made reference to some of the education surrounding that starting sooner so I just wanted to make sure I I heard you correctly.

[00:16:04] Early as the fifth grade. So that student, I'm looking at it now, when they're talking about the safety lessons in child abuse, the term is explained.

[00:16:21] It says five ways a person can gain access to someone else. And the first way is consent. So it talks about, you know, saying no, when to say no, basic. But outside of the parameters, I guess outside of a situation where it is an abusive relationship, as far as a mutual relationship, defining consent in a mutually desired relationship between people of the same age, is that eighth grade?

[00:17:04] And how was it decided, if you know, at what grade that type of education would begin? I believe that is coming from when it is mentioned in the SLLs.

[00:17:20] Okay. That's what I would have guessed. I just didn't want to assume. And my last question is surrounding the relationship that LCPS has with the Loud and Abuse Women's Shelter. Do they have any role in defining any of these lessons or helping with family life education?

[00:17:40] Or has that been considered or could it be considered if it hasn't been? that can absolutely be considered and we have worked with them um but i i can't say for certain if any specific piece of a lesson is from them i guess my only feedback on that would be since they are experts in loudon that it might be a useful resource for us besides just some of the more generic ones that don't take into consideration our specific community and school division so i'll

[00:18:17] just add to what Amy shared that that we have worked with them we also our office of student services has worked closely with them and we are currently engaging in conversations about how we can continue to and expand working with them and the topic of family life education has come up as a possibility so think even as early as next week or the week after we're starting to engage in those conversations thank you I appreciate the the answers thank you for answering my question

[00:18:50] could you go into a little bit of detail about what steps or what the process is for the formal review given the fact that that's going to occur next year so I just want to put it on everyone's radar on what what that will entail how long it would take what the steps are what what we can expect many go through the school health advisory board and we could certainly do that and I will definitely take feedback just our school health advisory board only meets

[00:19:28] quarterly so I don't know that that was enough time but it should include a various group of people like a principal from each grade level school board member needs to involve parents medical mental health professionals substance abuse prevention treatment practitioner and other members in the community so would need to put together a community involvement team and work through show

[00:20:04] what we have what the code says we need and the mandates and what can be revised and implemented and then the only thing I would add is that Amy mentioned the school health advisory another option could be that we bring the results of that committee review to CNI for example rather than the school health advisory additional questions no go ahead mr. yeah thank you dr. Ellis also for that

[00:20:43] comment Amy and I had talked about that a little bit as well and I would just say to the school board members here that this would be Miss Wheeler's first formal review with SLE and she and I have not yet sit down and created her formal you know timeline of steps but in terms of an estimate i would say to you anywhere from you know a six to nine month process to be able to assemble and get a team together review the sols look through the things we have make revisions find additional resources bring those you know to you or the advisory board um and and ultimately make some final decisions so that would be my

[00:21:20] Okay, thank you. Ms. Ogadugbe? Just a follow-up on the previous conversation. I think that we, with the initiation of the conversation with laws about being able to work with them to develop a more comprehensive approach for violence prevention, my hope, and also just kind of following on with what Ms. Reeser said, would be that they could be an integral part of whatever group is getting together to review the curriculum and make recommendations.

[00:21:54] And while I know that we need to use Virginia code as a baseline, my hope is that we can kind of expand on what we're doing to be more in line with what the needs of our community are to make sure that our children and young adults really are able to make good, informed decisions and have the information that they need to navigate a lot of things that are coming at them as they grow up.

[00:22:23] Yeah, I think that's really important, and we appreciate that feedback. Additional questions? Comments? All right. Thank you very much for the overview. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

[00:22:40] No, no. You're waiting. Okay. Thank you both. Thank you. So we'll move to 402, first review of Policy 5065, Kindergarten. Thank you very much, Dr. Ellis. Hello, everybody.

[00:23:00] Policy 5065 is speaking about kindergarten enrollment, and there is very little change to this policy being presented here tonight because we follow the Code of Virginia on this. For kindergarten enrollment, a child has to be five by September 30th of this school year.

[00:23:17] The only change being proposed is there was a sentence in the first paragraph that spoke about class size limits, which are not addressed in this policy. They're addressed in the next policy that we're going to look at. so we've removed that sentence that had established class size limits for kindergarten.

[00:23:33] But other than that, you see the changes as presented. So I'll take any questions or comments on that or recommendations. - Committee members, any questions, comments, recommendations? - No.

[00:23:49] - Any objections to sending this out for advisory committee and public review? - Right. - And with that, we'll move to our last information item, 403 policy 5080 class sizes.

[00:24:05] - So 5080 is slightly more involved. We received additional feedback from division council today, which had us taking yet another look at this policy. So as we consider their feedback, and I'm happy to go into detail about what that was involving, I'd also like to give you all an opportunity to look at the changes proposed and give us your feedback so that we consider all of it together.

[00:24:30] I'd like to direct your attention to the changes we have proposed, which can be found in section A2 and A3, which is simply a change to the current practice that we have had in place for several years, which grades 1 through 3 shall exceed-- no class in grades 1 through 3 shall exceed 25 students.

[00:24:50] It previously read 28. 25 is the standard we've been following for the last several years. And in section A3, grades 4 and 5, no grade 4 and 5 class shall exceed 29 students. That is what we've been doing for the past several years.

[00:25:05] And then we have added A4, which is the statement exceptions exceeding the max class size must be approved by the level director. In the case of the elementary class size, that would only be in a situation where the standards of quality are greater than what we have noted here, which would be in grades 4 and 5, whereby the standards by Code of Virginia are allowed to go to 35.

[00:25:26] So otherwise, we wouldn't be exceeding the numbers you see here in this policy. And we've added the same statement in section B under middle schools, number three, about maximum class size is being approved by the director and in section three for high schools.

[00:25:45] We would like to, I would like to share two things from the division council feedback today. Their feedback is centered around the Code of Virginia, and they were recommending our policy is very specific, and as you see in the first paragraph of the policy, speaks to our practice as a school division, which is we exceed the standards of quality.

[00:26:05] and we feel it's important to note that in our policy. They had asked if maybe we wanted to more just reiterate the standards of quality here and then get into more details in a regulation, but when we discussed it, we feel fairly strongly that we'd like to call out here that we exceed the standards of quality as a school division in policy so that we keep doing that.

[00:26:26] But two of the things we noticed in the standards of quality, in the code, state code, that have changed. There's a statement about English classes not exceeding 24 students in the middle and high school, grades 6 to 12, that we do not have included here, so it is our intention to add that.

[00:26:42] And the other statement that was shared was no class in middle school should exceed 35 students. And I noticed in Section B, one, we do have grade 6 being able to be 40, or grade 7 and 8 being allowed, 40 students being allowed for music and PE, which is in conflict with state code.

[00:27:03] So I'd like to go back and change that. Could you just clarify what the conflict is with code? The code says that classes cannot exceed, in grades 6 through 12, cannot exceed 35 students. But our current policy states that PE and music classes could be 40 students.

[00:27:21] So we're exceeding that. Do we have any classes currently that are above 35? I am doubtful that we do. The bigger issue with the conflict between the state code and the policy is state code relies on averages, where our policy, the way it's written, relies on individual class sizes.

[00:27:38] So when we take our averages, we very far exceed state code, very far exceed state code, and that would be one reason for rejecting the suggestion to put just state code in here because, for example, grade 1, an average of 24 to 1. That's when you take all the first grade students, divide by all the first grade teachers 24 to 1.

[00:27:59] We far exceed that. We would rather have a class size limit in our policy because it keeps us more equitable across the division other than having a class of 30 somewhere and a class of 15 somewhere, which is what state code would require us to do. I'd like to just get follow-up confirmation of that just to make sure we don't have any classes that are contrary to what code allows.

[00:28:21] Sorry for interrupting. That's okay, and we'll take any other thoughts or feedback you have that we can consider at the same time. Okay, thank you. Committee members, Ms. Reeser. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the presentation of the policies.

[00:28:37] I just have a quick question about how maximum class size is currently approved. I can answer that question. I was just thinking. Or I should say exceeding it. How exceeding it? We don't exceed it.

[00:28:53] That's how it's currently handled. So the state code does not speak at all to the use of teacher assistance, except for at the kindergarten level, where they require a teacher assistant for any class over 24. In Loudoun County, we give every kindergarten class a teacher assistant, and that's the only place TAs are mentioned in state code for grades 1 to 5 when we meet we when we reach our class size limit which is nowhere in state code just here in our policy we automatically assign a teacher assistant so that's how we handle it when we get to the 26th student in grades 1 2 or 3 we assign a

[00:29:29] teacher assistant when we get to the after the 30th student in grades 4 or 5 we assign a teacher assistant if we don't have teachers assistants available at that point because sometimes that happens late in the school year that's when we go to regional assignment but we don't ever exceed the class limit so if we're not making exceptions to the maximum class size why are we adding language that allows a level director to do it and why did we decide that it would be the level director that would do it well I know why it would be the level director because the level directors at all three levels are who assign staffing and monitors staffing as class sizes grow and students move in

[00:30:08] and out of the area the language was added by cabinet so yes so the scenario that we talked about is a situation where there may not be so there there may be one student who joins a class perhaps midway through the year perhaps there is not an additional classroom to so one scenario could be a student joins the class in the middle of the year we do have contingency staff remaining we could assign a contingency position that would then mean splitting the class into two smaller

[00:30:42] groups which could be disruptive or we could not have physical space in the school to actually do that and it could be for example a sibling of someone in the class and regional assignment isn't this so this is very rare I do want to say that in fact I don't think Elaine has ever approved a situation like this um so it would be very rare but we did want to make sure that we first of all were consistent by level and that as she mentioned because staffing is released by the office the level director would be the one to approve it in those rare situations and it sounds

[00:31:21] like it's something that you would be you're discussing at a cabinet level is it correct for me to conclude that if that did happen or if it if you've had a situation like this it would be discussed at the other levels beyond just the level director thank you additional questions miss I think based on that feedback it might be appropriate to have language that addresses the fact that it is discussed

[00:32:01] beyond the level director especially because this hasn't been a problem in the past and making sure that this doesn't become a way in which we are increasing class size which is not I know that's not the intent of the policy but it could be an unanticipated outcome if without some additional oversight or guidance or input and if there's challenges with staffing and you know we're really just trying to get a student in the door that we're somehow

[00:32:37] how making exceptions without broader oversight and input into that process. Let me jump in there, because I think we all have the same note, pretty much. Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking.

[00:32:54] Generally, what I've seen in other policies or other committees, when we're talking about exceptions to policy, usually that triggers a notification to the committee that oversees whatever that policy is. Like for walk zones, exceptions to walk zones get briefed to the Finance and Operations Committee on an annual basis. So I would propose, at least as a starting point, that something like that get added in, where if we have an exception, that's probably for good reason, but that an annual briefing or when those exceptions occur, that it gets briefed to CNI so that it gets public notice

[00:33:31] and discussion. Ms. Reeser? I was thinking along the same lines that since it is a board policy, probably should be the exceptions should be reported to the board but I don't have any objection to it being reported to the committee I do think it should be more than annually I think it should probably be when it occurs if it if it's super rare I was gonna ask a clarifying question because we were just saying since all three level directors report to the chief of schools it would make sense for it to be approved by the chief of schools in the situation where this might occur obviously time is of the essence because children enroll and they need to be starting school the next day.

[00:34:09] So there might not be time for approval by a committee, but certainly notification. So I think maybe approval by the chief of schools and notification to either committee or full school board. Would that make sense? I think so. I think that makes sense. Because I can certainly see instances where, obviously, we don't want these exceptions on a regular basis.

[00:34:30] But if it's a choice between authorizing some exception or busing all kindergartners to Pinebrook like we had to do last year, then maybe for something like that it is the better solution if something like that would work. So I think that makes sense. Ms. Okanegbe? Just as a follow-up to the public comment earlier about the maximum class size for middle schools versus high schools and the number of sections that teachers are teaching and having to plan for, can you speak to that and just provide some additional context?

[00:35:09] I really can't provide much context since I'm the elementary director, But I will say nothing in code speaks to it at all, only in terms of number of sections. So that can be something. I can go back to the middle and high school directors and get their feedback on that. I can actually, the very first budget we did, I made a motion to reduce middle school class size because Dr. Ellis and I talked quite a bit about the fact that there is an extra class section that middle school teachers teach.

[00:35:39] And it was a starting point. It was always, there was the intention to continue with that. That was before we had the appropriations challenges that we've had since then. But I can't recall why it was set up that way to begin with, which is what I think Ms. Ogadegbe may be asking if you know Dr. Ellis.

[00:35:59] So that scheduling change, I don't know when that occurred. It happened before my time here in LCPS. I can see what historical information I can track down. I have been told anecdotally that it has to do with the middle school model, and it was to reduce class sizes, although I've also been told that the total number of students, the total teacher load, is the same.

[00:36:31] So I can get more information and give that back to you when we bring this back. Sure, and perhaps it would be something that we could aspire to look at again for the next operating budget since we had to put a hold on it. definitely. Thank you. I have a couple of questions left. The first is, does it make sense? So this policy only talks about maximum class sizes, and it just references, well, it doesn't really, it says that targeted average class sizes are lower than this, but it doesn't reference or

[00:37:06] say what they are. And it's actually fairly laborious to try and find. It's, I think, it's in an appendix to the CIP and in an appendix to the operating budget. But I'm just wondering if it makes more sense to have it here as well given the fact that we already have the maximums here just for ease of someone trying to find it if they're looking for what the average or targeted class sizes in LCPS are so when you say targeted class size I know that I know what number is used as a to do the math by the budget office you know 23 students for class is that the

[00:37:45] information that you're looking for something like that like I think that's true for elementary or for some grade levels in elementary but I know it's different in middle school and high school so but yeah and I know it it may not be able to include every edge case because I know there are special education classes and all sorts of other things that are different but at least for kind of the baseline targets for elementary middle and high school I think that would be useful to include them as well do you think that would be appropriate to include in the policy or more in the regulation I'm sorry do you think that would be more appropriate in a policy or in a regulation I think it

[00:38:20] would be wherever the maximum class sizes are. I think it would be equally appropriate to have the average or targets as well. And then on lines 15 through, I'm sorry, 12 through 15, when it's talking about the exceptions for the kindergarten class size, where it allows you to go up to 27 sometimes. I feel, if I'm remembering right, I feel like that was something that got added in during the transition from half-day kindergarten to full-day kindergarten because of challenges

[00:38:56] with spaces at the buildings when they were trying to figure that model out so I'm wondering if we still need that at that point and whether we have well I guess the fundamental question is do we currently have kindergarten classrooms that are 26 or 27 and we have done it twice since since we split into full-day kindergarten we did it at Goshen Post when they were a new school and we did it at HOVAT or the first year because there was not room to add a class section but there were 27 students in every class so that's when we've seen the use for it is when we're in a high growth

[00:39:31] area and there's the school of that capacity so does I mean doesn't that mean that fundamentally the maximum class size for kindergarten is 27 it does yes so I'm curious what other committee members think about that I think I would be in favor of deleting that paragraph and then just treating it as an exception given that we're adding in the language that allows an exception but I'm okay I'm thinking off the cuff I'm curious what what others think as well additional discussion Ms. Ogdenigby agreed I think it simplifies the language in the policy as well

[00:40:09] and since we're providing an avenue for exception I think that that would be appropriate additional discussion Ms. Reeser just a quick question can you remind us what the maximum allowable class size under the code is for kindergarten if you know yes I do well again code does not mention teacher's assistance at all right so kindergarten is 24 to 1 with no maximum class size being 29 29 so when we started the discussion you mentioned that council had feedback from the code and the

[00:40:49] standards of quality and adding maximum class sizes for English language instruction classes Are there, and then we just mentioned something about special education classes.

[00:41:04] So are there maximums that need to be added also for special education classes in policy? And if not, where is that covered? Thank you for the question. No, state code, when I said English, not English language classes, but English classes.

[00:41:20] So there is nothing in state code about English learner classes. This is simply about English classes, like the English class we have all taken all the way through. That's the only subject that is called out in state code is English. So there's no code that is related to special education or English learner?

[00:41:43] Not in terms of class size. I'm not an expert in special education code, but I think special education code has more to do with caseload for the special education teacher because we don't. And then just to add on to that, that's addressed locally in the staffing standards, both for special education and for English learners.

[00:42:09] Any additional questions or comments? I guess one other thing, and then through the HRTD committee, we've asked for some updates about vacancies and hiring and a specific focus on special education because there have just been a lot of challenges in that area in terms of staffing.

[00:42:32] I'm just wondering, knowing that it's covered by staffing standards, is there any benefit for adding something into the policy specific to class size just for visibility and awareness to make sure that we're looking at all classes?

[00:43:04] I would want to consult Dr. Jones and Tedra Richardson. think that would also include some significant changes because this policy is for general education classes and and I I don't know enough about how special education is staffed at each school to speak to I can't envision what it what a general statement would even say because of the different types of classes so I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea I just I'm having a hard time envisioning what it might look like and I'd want to get some

[00:43:40] feedback from special education office Thank you and I am seeing now the first line there that's specific to general education so yeah thank you additional questions so I think we've talked about some decent changes to the policy today so I would propose that we bring this back as information again next time to see what those look like before sending them off for committee review okay so that will conclude our information items and we'll bring us to item five on the

[00:44:20] agenda new business I just wanted to ask a question because I know we have a number of policies out for advisory committee in public comment right now so can I just get a brief update on the status of those and when we expect to bring those back for the second committee review yes I appreciate the question so the policies related to instructional materials and challenge of instructional materials the 50/45 series as we're calling it in the office is as you mentioned we have presented as an information item we have put it out for

[00:44:58] public and advisory committee feedback that feedback window closed right before spring break due to the spring break staff did not have time to to do a deep dive and review all of the feedback and make recommendations to you all for changes so we plan on having those recommended changes if any with all of the feedback published for the May 1st CNI committee meeting so we'll have all those policies ready for your review at that time thank you is there any other new business today seeing none we are adjourned thank you everyone

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