Coraggio Consulting
Loudoun County Public Schools, Student Behavior and Accountability Committee Meeting, Monday, March 24, 2025

Date: Monday, March 24, 2025
Place: LCPS Administration Building / School Board Room, Ashburn, Virginia
Length: 51m (video)
Official meeting video (Vimeo / LCPS-TV): https://player.vimeo.com/video/1069046336?rel=0

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-13. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:00] I would like to call this meeting of the Student Behavior and Accountability Committee to order at 4 o'clock today. And we are open for public comment, of which we don't have any public, so there must be no comment here.

[00:00:19] And let's go ahead and take a look. Have you all had the opportunity to look at the meeting minutes from the last meeting? Okay. Any problems with it? Any changes you'd like to see, grammatic or otherwise?

[00:00:38] We're all good. All right do I hear a motion to approve the meeting? I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes from the last meeting. Thank you Dr. Ashid. I second that motion. Thank you Dr. Deans. All in favor say aye.

[00:00:55] All opposed? Seeing none opposed motion passes 3 to 0. All right the next item on our agenda is the action item for the revised policy for the corporal punishment prohibited that would be policy number 8280 any comments anything we'd like to discuss ask question

[00:01:27] I do chair if I may is did SEAC weigh in on the corporal punishment because I didn't see it on the feedback form no I don't think they did on the other hand there's so much that's already prohibited by SEAC and other policies that we have such as restraint and seclusion I don't know that it would be a big issue for them okay I didn't see it on the feedback forum I just saw you know just someone that made a suggestion

[00:02:07] it was a 10 to 12 on the red line copy of the definition of pain is there a better definition for physical pain and in line 30 what is reasonable I'm here for Dana Scanlon this evening I'm her supervisor in the office and Bill should be joining us after his hearing Dana wanted to note that physical pain is not defined in the policy so it's not defined and that reasonable is a term

[00:02:42] that is often used in coding case law actions are typically determined to be reasonable if an unbiased individual would find the action sensible rational fair given the same set of circumstances so another question about restraint and seclusion I know it's a hot topic with the restraint and seclusion this is only

[00:03:04] referencing the policy correct it's not stating anything about we have that MSAC

[00:03:35] supports and appreciates this policy. Oh, the equity one? Gotcha. Equity Committee? Yeah, the policy mirrors the Code of Virginia. As such, very little in the policy can be altered. It's literally word for word. That's all right. My question is about the one that talks about the milk being thrown

[00:04:07] across the room. Is cleaning up the milk a form of corporal punishment? This example that's given is not corporal punishment under the code or under current policy this policy defines corporal punishment as any action that does not meet needs meet those criteria is not corporal punishment okay so if there's no pain involved yep that's right you messed up clean up mom would probably throw in a you know good

[00:04:42] whack or two while you're at it but we don't do that all right any other comments questions discussion do I have a motion to accept the corporal punishment policy as presented I'd like to make a motion to bring this policy

[00:05:08] 8280 to the full board as an act as an information item we have a motion on the floor to bring policy 8280 forward to the full board for act for information all in favor say aye aye aye opposed seeing no opposition the motion passes

[00:05:48] Thank you all right we're going to look at our next policy which is 82 25 admission and exclusion. This is a motion for information rather than for action.

[00:06:05] Has everybody had time to look at this yes no. This is an information item. Yes it's an information item. Yeah would you like to present it.

[00:06:25] Sure. Okay so Ms. Scanlon left us a couple of couple of notes regarding this policy the exclusion policy only applies in two circumstances and these circumstances happen very very seldom the first circumstance is when LCPS expels the student without services and the student seeks readmission to Loudoun County Public Schools upon the expiration of the expulsion it's very very very very seldom in my two years we have not expelled the student the number two is that when a student is is

[00:07:01] expelled reassigned to an alternative setting or suspended for more than 30 days by another school division or private school and is looking to enroll in Loudoun County Public Schools then during the time of that sanction so if a student leaves Fairfax and they had been assigned to an alternative setting for disciplinary reasons and they're in the middle of that reassignment and they move across the border and we border hop all over the place and the students come here then we can look at an exclusion for that student because they are under that sanction with another school jurisdiction so those are the two

[00:07:35] situations in which case that we would be looking at the exclusion policy a summary of the substantive revisions the vast majority of revisions fall into one of three categories the first one is revisions that were made to bring the policy into alignment with the code the second one is information that was moved from the policy to the accompanying regulation because such information was better suited in the regulation not in the policy and revision and number three was revisions made to align the appeal information with the newly revised policy

[00:08:14] 8230 procedures for student disciplinary appeals to the school court so those are the three reasons are the three substantive revisions so you'll notice it's a much shorter policy at this point the red lines yes right here we got it thank you any comments questions dr. Dean okay is there any

[00:08:42] place here admission expulsion or readmission of students admission expo exclusion where a student is excluded but when he returns he would not be sent back to the school that he was excluded from

[00:09:07] For many reasons, it might be contact with the complainant or it might be that school setting just didn't provide a good fit.

[00:09:27] And I ask that because there are circumstances where the superintendent will assign a student to a different school versus the kid just automatically going back to his school from which he was expelled.

[00:09:47] or given long-term suspension is there anything here that addresses that i do not believe so but we will bring it up to dana so that we'll have an answer for you before the next time we meet okay and i'd like an answer because um absolutely one of the one of the cases that we had recently the child should not return to woodgrove high school um not because of anything i mean because he can fight anywhere but it was the circumstances under which he fought that would tell me that I

[00:10:27] would not want to send him back to Woodgrove High School I'd want to reassign him and if he's not reassigned by the superintendent then he can't play sports. Sure and oftentimes our reassignments do include a reassignment to a different school and certainly I've learned in this job we very seldom do we say never because there's so often that one exception out there and so I do think particularly sometimes when there's a victim involved that there are opportunities for students to attend to other schools that might be reassigned at the conclusion of an exclusion right but I'd like for you to

[00:11:05] particularly address the reassignment by the administration so that the child can or cannot play sports sure I just wanted to ask grammatically so it does line 19 in the red copy like in black suspended from school and then it says for more than 30 days is that on purpose for more than 30 days it goes to line 55 it jumps because all of it is X'd out I just want to make sure because everything

[00:11:41] is crossed out all the way to a fragmented line 55 yes and it is reflected in the clean copy students were suspended for more than 30 days by a school board or private school in Virginia 30 days yeah and the 30 days goes back to the state code great and then also for line 76 in the red copy same thing it goes straight to line one 105 does everything else is crossed out yes a good chunk of that is the things that we had taken out of the policy to

[00:12:19] put into the regulation has it's more appropriate for the regulation I do see and on the clean copy section D at the bottom procedures for student disciplinary appeals to the board it says that they have to be in front of the whole board or a committee of three of the board that would be us yes and would that be before going to the full board or is that handled like the other ones where if two of us if we have a split decision then it goes to the full board

[00:12:55] That is my understanding. It would align with the appeals regulation or policy. You might want to reverse those two things just to make that a little clearer.

[00:13:19] Before they're readmitted, is there ever a time that we can require them to get some counseling, some kind of redirection before they come back to the building?

[00:13:48] Or is that totally left up to the parents? most often it's left up to the parent it's when the school system there are times when the school system has required it there's other times where they haven't it has to do with being consistent with the different decisions that are made out of our office but certainly bring it up to Ms. Scanlon and she can take a look at whether or not within state code we can actually require it without having to then pay for it so but I will certainly ask.

[00:14:26] Definitely, yeah. That's what I was thinking because this morning we said at the parent's expense. Expense. Yep. And we'd like to always put that in there because we don't need to pay for anything. No.

[00:14:41] But that child would benefit from something. His expense, boys, who would pay for him to go to counseling? He's done it two years in a row. What's he going to do to go? Is it appropriate in some situations where they are readmitted to you?

[00:15:08] Who does the counselor come in and acquire him? I'm sorry. My question is whether not counseling can be required as an option or a requirement and the school division not have to pay for it.

[00:15:37] And we will take that back and that discussion. Thank you. Thank you so much. Anything else anything else that we need to discuss if so is there a motion to move this forward.

[00:16:04] I'd like to make a motion to move this forward as an action item to the next meeting. You have to send it to committee first. have to send it for posting for feedback first okay I wish I didn't volunteer for this narrative but I'd like to make a motion to send this policy out for feedback a second all those in favor of sending this forward for

[00:16:38] feedback public comment and so forth say aye aye aye aye opposed seeing no opposition this motion is approved and this will be sent forward to get comments now new business and i think we do have some new business today my understanding is that the legislative and

[00:17:13] policy committee is planning to make a motion to rotate members on the s back appeals committee this was not anything that was brought to our attention prior to this meeting and we had no comment or input on this motion that they have so I think we need to discuss it and decide what

[00:17:45] needs to be said or done regarding this motion if anything how do we feel about it so it's just a discussion among us to see how we feel sure i think that we're losing the consistency that we

[00:18:09] would have with the appeals if this body is fluid i think that there um for an example um they talked to us um last spring about the special permission committee that we as a board uh turned down more special permissions than any board in the past so therefore but we were consistent yeah in turning

[00:18:47] them down so i think that we need to consider that within the confines of a school year a school term or a board's term that the consistency of the appeals process would be more static if we kept the same people on the committee thank you chair I echo dr. Dean sentiments and I do also would

[00:19:26] like to reiterate that what will happen is if we start to have different committee members rotate onto the current committee for appeals the problem will be that the problem will lie with the students that are seeking the appeal in a sense that they will hope that that one committee member or whatever committee members that will attend to them will be lenient and there will be

[00:20:02] this kind of false hope that's going on out there saying, well, this other person or this other student got off easy while I got the difficult committee member and I had it harder. So that's just an example of what I was echoing Dr. Dean's sentiments, that with that lack of consistency, those problems will occur.

[00:20:24] And then parents and constituents will start saying, well, Sally or Jesse or student A, B, C, D, whatever, got off and got their permission appealed, so to say, whereas my kid did not. It's due to that one factor that did change, which is the committee member themselves, if that makes sense.

[00:20:43] it's a little wordy but I think what you're trying to point out is even if they don't change the entire committee periodically that having a revolving seat could be problematic considering that if one person on the committee if the committee decision is split two to one then it goes to the full board and if that one person who is causing the split is somebody new or

[00:21:23] unfamiliar with the regulations for example we've had several title nine cases if you're not understanding of what this is all about what's the difference between title nine and the rest of it you might be on a different track than you would have been if you were actual member every week of the committee and I think that's kind of what you're saying isn't that so Dr. Rasheed or not kind of it's more so just what Dr. Deans was saying that's all you need consistency is key and if something is changing then that becomes a problem out in the community in the school

[00:22:01] community another thing that bothered me somebody said well it's not fair that we need to get all of the committee members on there at one point or another and it's not fair to not invite them Well, there's two parts to that. First of all, why are we worried about being fair to committee members, to board members? We are worried about being fair to students. That is the focus of SBAC. We have to have consistency and fairness for students.

[00:22:33] The second point is that we have invited other members to come in and work with us because we three are not always able to attend all the meetings. Things come up, we're not always here.

[00:22:49] And I would not mind putting in a regulation saying that if one of us were not here, that we would invite various members of the board to come and sit in place, maybe not on a regulation schedule, because not all of them are available to come in.

[00:23:13] A lot of them, another year, might have jobs. And I have a real problem with saying, well, you're assigned to do this these three months, and so I'm sorry, if we have an appeal come up, you're just going to have to tell your employer that you can't make it.

[00:23:32] I mean, that's a real problem. So I think that we have to really think of all of these things. We're thinking about putting it into a policy. Any other thoughts? Go ahead, Dr. Dean.

[00:23:46] Based on page 3 of 2310, under D, the first paragraph says the school board chair would assign three three-member committees on a rotating basis who would preside over such appeal hearings.

[00:24:18] I disagree with that. I think that, and I don't know what line that is. My eyes may help me to see. But I think that once the school board chair assigns the three members, those three members should remain consistent.

[00:24:36] And I think that, as we've said before, the fairness, the consistency for students would be most important. And also the fact that some members are employed and they cannot come during the time that the appeal hearings occur.

[00:24:57] And so in this case, we have worked it out so that the three of us are here nine out of ten times. So the consistency is in place. And then that second paragraph, in the event that a member of the Student Discipline Appeals Committee is unable to serve at a particular hearing, the chair of the board will recruit an alternate school board member to serve at the hearing so that a minimum of three members can consider the appeal.

[00:25:28] I think that is just encumbering the board chair to do more, more, more, and more. And it is not, it would not be fair to that board chair, and neither would it be fair to the committee. I agree.

[00:25:46] There are a lot of problems with this section that I can see. First of all, they can assign three members to the committee, but to put them on a rotating basis, think how long it has taken us.

[00:26:04] We have been on this committee for a little over a year to follow the tempo, to understand what's going on, to learn how to respond to people because it's more like a judicial position than when we are on special permissions for schools.

[00:26:24] I think also what the previous policy said, as I recall, was that the chair will appoint chairman for the committee, and it is the chairman who's responsible for selecting somebody if one of the members of the committee is unable to attend.

[00:26:49] Yes, back, yes. I think that's what it said. And I think that one of the things that we have done is try to make sure that everybody on the board, if we have an opening, will come in, be able to come in, and work with us so they know more about it.

[00:27:11] And again, as I said, some people have a job that they're not always available. If we have an appeal that's later in the day, maybe they can make it. Maybe they can't. When it's early in the morning, like 10 o'clock, as some of them have been, telling them, I'm sorry, you're on the committee, you're expected to be here, that's not a good thing.

[00:27:36] And then having them say, well, I can't make it appoint somebody else. Well, the whole purpose of this was to make sure everybody could get a chance to do it. So, you know, you're undoing what you're trying to do.

[00:27:49] But I think one of the fears is that at some point in the future, as I understand what April was telling me and Ann was saying, is that they are worried that the chair, when we have a vacancy, will not rotate through the committee members as they are able to attend.

[00:28:17] In other words, just always pick the same alternate because that one's available. And the rest of the board does not get the opportunity, if they so desire, to participate with us. So I think that's one of the things that was concerning them.

[00:28:34] Dr. Dean. May I also point out that if you remember last year, last calendar year, I came to every committee meeting to learn what they were doing to determine if I could help or could participate or could give input.

[00:28:56] If they want to know what we're doing, they should be here today. Exactly. I've seen a few of them come in. Very seldom. Yeah. Any other thoughts? I think Melinda got it right.

[00:29:16] This time. This time. The other question is, how long should the same committee serve on SBAC? Okay, so she had an opportunity to switch us out in January, and she did not.

[00:29:33] So that's what the board should know what their mandate is, that you can do it in January but not do it throughout the year. And I think, too, the fact that it has taken a while for us to get, you know, comfortable and easy with doing what we are doing, developing a rhythm, and worrying about the different issues for different students, because we do ask questions of people, of everyone at every committee meeting that we are learning more.

[00:30:07] Like I did not even think of the traveling athletic leagues that we talked about or whether a student can get IB if they are at a different placement than their regular school or at Valley or at Heritage.

[00:30:26] You know, what about virtual distance learning? How does that work? I asked, and I didn't ask in the meeting, but I asked ahead of time, virtual distance learning closes in January. If we don't have a student that might profit from virtual distance learning come before us in March, that's not available to them.

[00:30:48] So I think that it's also the learning experience we've had over the last year and a half so far. I think that maybe we should say that it should be a two-year term because that's what the board member's term is.

[00:31:05] I have to explore that more because when you say board members term all the board members just the chair just just well the chairs but also because we're staggered yeah so I know that some of us are yeah like well it won't always be that way but it'll always be staggered our elections will be staggered oh that's right they change every year right but no no it'll be four it'll be four but it'll be staggered meaning like people have different elections at different times than we do right so I'll have an election you and I'll have an

[00:31:43] election for most likely yeah well ours will coincide but broad run may not yeah yeah but hurt that like a successor of that whoever would be in that place whether it's dr. Dean's or whoever that'll be four years but then that's two years after you and me are done I don't think they're doing four years after this if I'm not mistaken yeah no no people I've become four years the next time. Oh, okay. Got it. No, but we are all four after that forever. Okay. We don't go back to two again. Like, that's it. It just stays four from my impression. Got it. You're saying we go

[00:32:18] back to two? Oh, no, no. I was, I think we need clarification. We'll have to clarify that, but the same thing is that your term should run as a committee member congruent to your term of office.

[00:32:34] Is that a better way of saying it? Okay. I'm just trying to think of the repercussions for that. Unless you really don't want it, you could ask to be changed out, as you could with any committee at the middle of, you know, when we reassign committees.

[00:32:53] I think more information is needed for all the stuff you mentioned, but they're valid. And I think one consideration should become with the committees versus the board is the school term. It's clumsy to change in January when the school year or the school term doesn't end until June.

[00:33:19] I'm talking about academic years. I think the committees maybe should, there should be some consideration of the committees working during an academic year versus a calendar year. That might be a little difficult because we're on it right now, and the election comes up in November, and then maybe some of us will be leaving and some of us staying, and then

[00:33:51] changing in january for us but then changing committees in june because of the s back schedule hello welcome back we're having an open new business discussion so miss gentlemen would you happen to know what you happen to know um about elections would you happen to know if it's four from now on or is it four and two from i i'm just very curious i could have sworn it was four

[00:34:25] the whole time yeah my understanding is that there was legislation that passed that that required staggered terms and so these this two-year kind of interim type of term is to allow for the imposition of staggered four-year terms going forward. So always four, four, four. So it won't go back to two again. So my next

[00:35:00] election would be four years and so on and so forth. Could you all offer an amendment to the current proposed amendment? We weren't even told about it. So that's part of our issue. I mean, this is like, you know, we were blindsided by the whole thing. Part of the discussion might be to also decide how you want to give your feedback whether it's committee

[00:35:37] chair to committee chair well my understanding i'm not sure my understanding is they're going to bring it up for new business tomorrow night on the dais that's what i heard so that takes away the committee chair to committee chair thing work marna but once it's out of uh once it's brought up as new business right and the main dais then doesn't it come back to us as an information item

[00:36:13] i don't think we get to vote uh vote on it oh it just goes straight it just continues it's lnp because they get to decide on legislation and policies oh i we're not in that's why they never bother to tell us we don't make policies about ourselves right but i think we certainly having had the experience in here have more to information to say and present to them about it before they

[00:36:49] make a decision about us but in la and p was it passed or i mean i don't even know if there was a vote on it you know april said she needed to think more about it ann was for it i don't know what lauren said but um that's when you listen to what they're saying on you know the recording that's where they left it so i think they were going to try to open it in new business is it on there um i'm looking i don't see it do they have to announce on the agenda what the new

[00:37:22] business is usually yes okay nothing on a new business no this is 25 10 no so that's a different my understanding was that the committee was going to bring it back for action at their next monthly meeting well that bothers me a lot they're going to act on it without even talking to us

[00:37:52] about it, or giving us a platform to speak about it, but I will talk. Is that for any committee? Is this for any committee that this can happen with LA&P? Even with special programs, with F&L, like is this? I don't know. I mean, if they're going to rotate people in and out of our committee, then they should certainly be doing it for every committee, if that's how they want us to learn about it. Is that how it is for other committees also, that this can? No. Melinda gets to change the committees.

[00:38:31] The only difference here is what they're doing is they're removing a responsibility from this committee, the SBAC committee. And so what they're doing is they're taking that responsibility out of the hands of SBAC and they're placing it in the hands of the general school board.

[00:38:49] And basically it would just be a three-person committee. That's the only requirement. So it is not really a change of process in terms of people rotating through committees because this now becomes a separate deal because it's being taken out of this committee's hands.

[00:39:07] Looks like it's a whole separate committee. I think we can talk chair to chair. Well, you know, the fact that consistency goes away, the fact that you're going to be putting people in a position that might have to call an employer and say I can't come in today. That's not right. All the things that we have discussed about the learning of what we need to do and why we do it the way we do it. While you were not here,

[00:39:46] we talked about Title IX, the things that we learn. I mean, I just got back from San Antonio because there was a legal conference there, and I went to learn about Title IX rights. I went to learn about Constitution. I went to learn about, oh, Lord, I can't remember all of them, First Amendment rights, all of that, because I felt that was needful to know about, to work on this committee appropriately.

[00:40:14] And I don't know that that's something that they've thought about. One of the concerns that I would voice for you to hear as a hearing officer, this is not my only division to be a hearing officer in. I was a hearing officer in a different division in Virginia.

[00:40:33] and in general they did keep the same committee however there were times when you did have someone substitute in the danger that I saw in that were some of the questions that were asked of students and families that were actually questions that were violations that students civil rights at the time because the person who was asking them was not familiar with the process and what things you can and cannot ask and when it comes down to the idea of making

[00:41:07] sure that we keep not only what we're doing with students consistent and that we're keeping what we do with students fair but there are ramifications in terms of the legality of what we are doing in terms of with our decisions and And any kind of hint towards impropriety, any hint towards discrimination based on any behavior of a committee member or questions a committee member asks could make the county and the school division very vulnerable.

[00:41:42] I hadn't thought of that, but that's absolutely right. I know that one of the substitutes we had started to ask questions that were leading toward an inappropriate. And I stopped that person and said, no, no, we're here to listen.

[00:42:00] you know that's not what we do and um but I hadn't thought about all that yes and it will lead to issues especially if they come in and not knowing like I said we've spent a year learning about what we're doing here any other there was one committee and I thought it was this one but apparently I was wrong again still learning there was one where it was on a handout and we're all rotating where

[00:42:38] different districts become the chair for that month what committee was that oh never mind that's different from this okay yeah and and that one doesn't lead to as as much as this one does i mean we're talking about egregious behaviors by the time it gets to us it's been through a lot and when you get to special permissions at this point in time as i recall we're looking to see if the person has a real reason to go to a different district and i know we talked a few

[00:43:13] minutes ago about we were the committee that passed the fewest number of special permission changes and I know that when I worked on the special services student services committee we worked very hard to change the rules for special permission so that we weren't overwhelmed We had last year 3,096 special permissions.

[00:43:46] Yeah, and it doesn't even appear on there. And we're getting a lot of thank yous from the principals and also from Mr. Dolson and his division.

[00:44:08] It was just overwhelming. And, I mean, people come in and they tell you, oh, well, we need to be in this division. because our realtor told her that our student would go to these schools. And I said, well, I'm not responsible for what a realtor says. You know, yeah.

[00:44:25] So it's a whole different type of decision-making that it is for special permissions. And you can catch on fairly quickly because all the rules are delineated right there.

[00:44:42] And you just have to read what the parent says and decide, you know, what was it you used to say? Where's the something, reason? The punch. Yeah, the oomph. She kept looking for the oomph, why should we do this, and it wasn't there. And so I don't know what the other committees did, because we did rotate.

[00:45:01] And I think that was a good thing to see what kind of problems we're encountering in Loudoun County public schools due to growth. But this is different. Where do we send this back? What's our next step is what it comes to.

[00:45:17] I would love, Mr. Daniels, if you would present your argument to April Chandler. she's the chair of LNP, and let her know what the issue is. Because I don't think she sees that.

[00:45:33] And she says, I need to learn more about this. This is one way to do it. I took those of that board back to the beginning.

[00:45:59] What I'm saying is make it not comfortable. How would we do the scheduling with the other committees that the other board member that is to rotate?

[00:46:17] How do you do the scheduling of their committees? Because we often meet at the same time. We wait for Dana, right? Marna took notes. I watched her writing.

[00:46:36] I think one of the questions Dana had was how to bring the feedback back to LNP. She wasn't sure what that process would look like either.

[00:46:54] So if the committee has an idea of how they want to express that feedback, who's that's not? The fact that we're not supposed to be talking to one another about policy outside of a public committee meeting makes it very difficult for us.

[00:47:15] And I think, I mean, obviously we could tell our assistants, oh, go talk to their assistants, and then they, but that's like a game of telephone. I think my understanding was that Ann, at least, had tried to reach out to some of the administration, and I think as part of the administration team, I don't know if Dana was included, but I think that the particular administration that is in charge of setting up the appeals and working with SBAC would be the most appropriate people to reach out to April

[00:47:54] and then to the committee as a whole, the LNP committee. Because unless it gets up on the day as a full board, we can't talk to one another. Yeah, the concerns we brought up.

[00:48:10] I mean, technically, we can't talk to one another unless we're sitting in a public meeting. Who is the senior staff? I'm not sure. Oh, it could be. or maybe both both of them come and talk to L&P committee

[00:48:38] and up to speed first yeah that makes sense to you and is the timeline that we're looking at prior to tomorrow night not necessarily no it's not on there yet but I think that no I think that it needs to be on I don't you know I think they want to try to push it through by

[00:49:13] Easter I know well whenever their next meeting is but I don't know when their next meeting is but I think your point about if you belong to more than one committee and then all of a sudden you trying to get in here for appeals and then you're not participating in your committee meeting yeah and I'd walk into a meeting if I'm taking somebody's place and not know what was going on as disruptive to them but that that's not as bad as coming in here and not knowing

[00:49:49] what's going on yeah we can we can just we can adjourn if that's what you'd like

[00:49:59] to do no this is new business this is it we can give them a minute so LMP meets

[00:50:38] again on April the 29th at 5:00 p.m. okay so we have some time that's good to thank you we appreciate it I mean I could try to talk to April but that's not really permitted I can do one especially if we're not on the same committee so I can say something to April

[00:51:12] and I can tell her that I'd like her to speak with you all and and see what the issues are because you've identified quite a few for us and we've identified our own they're ones that you would have had questions about anyway all right now Linda I move that this meeting is adjourned Second all in favor say aye aye aye all opposed seeing no opposition this meeting is adjourned. Thank you.

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