Coraggio Consulting
Manassas City Council 2/18/2025

Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2025
Place: Manassas City Council, Virginia
Length: 1h 27m (video)
Official meeting video (Wistia / RegionalWebTV): https://fast.wistia.net/embed/iframe/g1545k21wt

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-17. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:00] Garcia please call the roll. Mayor Davis Younger. Present. Vice Mayor Wolf. Here. Council Member Ellis. Here. Council Member Smith. Here. Council Member Osina. Here. Council Member Vasquez Luna. Presente. Council Member Hudson. Here. The forum is present. Thank you very much. We have quite a bit of attachments and presentations to get through so Matt had previously asked if we can go ahead and start and then sort of save your questions and not stop as they're going through. We can take a pause and ask questions after they get through. There's a lot

[00:00:37] to present at one time. So item 1.1, discussion items 2045, comprehensive plan and mobility master plan updates. Christian, Matt. Just to start, as the mayor mentioned, so Christian's going to cover by way of the presentation, even though it's all one big project, he's going to cover the comprehensive plan minus transportation. I would say we should stop and see if there's questions after that piece then chloe's got the bulk of the presentation in terms of transportation so that's how this is generally set up and i'm ready for mr sample to take over from there mr sample thank you for being here thank you nice to you guys um just need to come up on the screen

[00:01:15] do we know how to switch that away from us oh yay all right here we go thank you um so as you guys are aware we're currently under an update underway for the comprehensive plan the current plan was adopted in february of 2020 and the code of virginia requires that a review of the plan take place every five years and so the city council authorized that review um february 26 of last year and after that um authorization we kicked off our conference

[00:01:52] of plan committee and we've been working very diligently on reviewing the comprehensive plan looking at how how it's how things have come along um updating for completed projects celebrating our success, and then taking a look at what current opportunities and challenges the city has.

[00:02:09] And so the Conference of Planning Committee met between spring and fall of last year, and we'll talk a little bit more in the timeline at the end about additional meetings they'll be doing. So just briefly talk about what we're up to, looking at our land use, looking at potential creation of a tourist corridor overlay on Route 28 and redevelopment focus in the Mathis character area.

[00:02:31] Look at the map there. red part is that mathis um development area we've you know shopping center we recently purchased and then you can see the blue part is the tourist corridor and the purpose of that tourist corridor is to create a i guess a kind of give a signature look as you're coming into downtown and give the city the ability to have more aesthetic standards along that roadway housing is a very big part of our update we're looking at increasing our focus on attainable housing development and building housing partnerships and addressing new opportunities um incorporating the mars stellar

[00:03:06] site as a recommended location for fire station one um in our environmental environmental sustainability and health we're focusing on increasing sustainability measures and increasing tree canopy in the parks culture and rec section we're incorporating the mars stellar park into that as well as making recommend recommendations to update the 2016 parks recreation and cultural needs assessment so this is um we're doing quite a bit to um update the plan and we'll talk about the timeline at the end so i'll have a brief pause for any questions you may have i might excuse me

[00:03:44] question but a comment please do so we don't repeat past mistakes we could put a sign up at marsteller and corner there and talk about future side of fire station one yes y'all think i'll agree that it's already on my to-do list so we don't repeat the fire station 21 and issue others yes thank you mr asim yes thank you mayor um so tell me a little bit more about this tourist corridor area that that we have here it's it's going to be designated by zoning or we're just

[00:04:22] putting it in on on a map here as part of the comprehensive plan it'll have its own separate section or what all of the above so we incorporate in the comprehensive plan as a recommendation city um there's the enabling language in the code of virginia that allows the city council to designate a tourist corridor area whereby then we can have an overlay district that we can apply additional aesthetic standards to such as you know streetscape improvements trees wider sidewalks signage things like like you typically see in like older areas of other cities where you know where you're going like our downtown is this way for example or historic areas are that way

[00:05:00] it's a zoning overlay district is the technical way of doing it so this is a big project so again the comprehensive plan just lays the groundwork it's just a recommendation to explore so out of the comprehensive plan if you adopt this as a new action it gets uh passed off of the planning commission to start looking at what that might look like ultimately it does involve the way the code of virginia set up a architectural review of new development redevelopment along this corridor But what's driving this is the low citizen satisfaction we get on the appearance of commercial corridors.

[00:05:30] This is obviously the commercial corridor that people see when they're heading in from that section of 28. So this is a tool in your toolbox to explore. And what the Planning Commission is basically recommending looking at is, is this a piece of zoning overlay that we'd like to implement to start to continue to improve appearance of this piece of the corridor?

[00:05:49] Again, nothing's adopted. Long process. Sorry, I'll let. long process. We'd have to go through a lot of community outreach, but it's a tool in your toolbox to consider. Is the plan to do something like this for our other gateways? And do we have such things in place for our other gateways? Not at this time. Initially, our focus is going to be on this area. We certainly could explore that at the direction of the council. Okay. And the reason I ask is because, well, this gateway is probably the most egregious in terms of coming into

[00:06:29] setting a very unfavorable opinion or look for the city here. And our other gateways are much better. I am always concerned that things happen to those gateways along the way. In the first four years, there was a situation where, in my belief, there was some development that was going to take place that would adversely affect that gateway. And because there was no gateway along that particular one, but it guided me at least in thinking that, which is why I wasn't in favor

[00:07:04] of that particular piece of development in that. And I'd like to, you know, we've worked very hard when you think about, let's just take Dumfries Road coming in as an example. I would hate to see anything happen to that but you know without it sort of being listed as as a an intent in the comprehensive plan to to protect it in some fashion or to acknowledge that these need to be looked at with a little bit more care is i guess what i would give is feedback since we're

[00:07:42] we're doing one is it possible to do others and again recognizing that you're not necessarily as you explained, there are a lot of other steps that take place along the way here. There's probably a good number of years of work to implement this. The beauty is that you would be able to, so if you write a zoning layer and the design guides that go with it, it would be able to be expanded fairly easily at that point, but you do have to go through a pretty lengthy process of both developing a district, every property owner is going to have to be notified, so there's going to be property owners that aren't happy about this. So I would view this one as your pilot to explore, and if it works, you'll have the tools ready and you can say, let's apply it to

[00:08:19] The comprehensive plan is another designation called gateways and corridors, so you can look at other corridors to apply it if it's well-received and if it works. Gotcha. Well, let the regulatory record note that I at least raise this as something to be considered for inclusion, if nothing else, as an aspirational idea along the way.

[00:08:46] Secondly, would you remind me the definition of missing middle housing? Missing middle housing is housing that was built in the early 20th century that isn't typically built in many communities anymore, such as duplexes, townhomes, triplexes, multifamily, cottage courts, housing like that, live work units.

[00:09:10] And if I recall correctly, Mathis Avenue is being considered for missing middle housing? Is that what I read? You're looking at me at it. Yes, yes, it is. Yes. No, we haven't gotten to the specifics of what type goes where, but Matt can speak more to this, obviously, but that's going to be an important component of it.

[00:09:32] As you explore the redevelopment of the shopping center, when you look at what housing types are possible, and after you go through our community conversations over the next year, this is something, looking at different types of housing and attainable housing is going to be, I think as we've discussed, you have an opportunity with these land acquisitions to look at different types of housing besides single-family detached townhouse apartments, which has been how the city and most cities have developed.

[00:09:59] So, again, comprehensive plan, suggestions, recommendations, not final actions. Very good. And, yes, that's what I was looking at where under land use suggested for the math as character area, listening missing middle housing as a priority in the character area's objective.

[00:10:20] So that is a recommendation that at least the planning commission is considering? Yes. All right. And lastly, definition of a hub zone, and where is it in the city?

[00:10:37] So that's an economic development designation. Basically, it's a federal tax program that if you develop in certain parts of the city, and I'll have to find that map for you. We can get back to you in a second. Okay, that's fine. But if you develop and have certain levels of employment generated from the development, then you get federal tax credits.

[00:11:00] And so I believe it's from initially back in 2018, and so we'll find a map for you in a little bit. Yeah, and we can send out additional information on this, but it's essentially two census tracts in the city that have been designated as a hub zone, and the note I have that it expires in 2020, but I don't know the specifics of it.

[00:11:18] Let us get some information from Mr. Small and provide you that. I was just curious, and be interested, like, do the tax credits accrue to the property owners there? Is it goes to the city in some fashion, or what are the advantages of having a hub zone, or in this case, two of them?

[00:11:35] And I take it we've had them for a while, if I recall correctly, because I remember one time they were discussed at One Million Cups by a gentleman who dealt with federal employment and locating companies that do contracting with the federal government.

[00:11:56] And if they're located there, they get some advantages that they would not get in other parts of the city or elsewhere in the county or others in the northern Virginia. Okay, that's all I had, Mayor. The benefit of the hub zone is that if a company, as you said, that is contracting with the federal government, there are requirements that they have to hire some residents within the jurisdiction that that hub zone exists.

[00:12:22] And then they get either tax credits or they get additional points when considered for federal contract award. Very good. Ma'am? Thank you. Mrs. Smith? Yes. The area we're talking about, I think in these cases, that's designated in the blue on the map.

[00:12:45] Roughly from, what is that, Iberia. Well, actually beyond Iberia and all the way up to 234. Among the things that you contemplated or I guess would not be off the table, there were some concerns I had that I'd like to see us address and I'm looking forward for five years.

[00:13:09] With such things as it sounds like from the answers to Council Commons, I've seen those questions, that that space could be considered for allowing for different ranges of multiple housing units, or what do you call it, these accessory dwelling units, those kinds of things.

[00:13:31] that and then any thought would this also fall in in that loop to potentially repurposing to build some buildings for housing that's the kind of thing that would that might fall in but you covered several of that points I was going to insist that would be considered in the comprehensive plan planning so a lot of my questions have been answered or I'll put on the back so thank you

[00:14:03] Councilman. Thank you. I'll start with this one. I like that, but if you can, I know you said it, but if you can make it clear that, you know, there won't be no changes right now. This is more, you know, exploratory. I think you have explained it. You know, one of the biggest concerns is when we, you know, do construction. You're going to have so much going on on the other side and big changes so I just want to make sure that the residents and and the businesses understand this is no you know this is the plan for the future more like a

[00:14:39] council vision then really making a change right now or the for the purple the blue the blue part right I think you know if I don't know for how long but it will be beneficial especially for the mobile homes area as they walk and that side and you know whether it's wider sidewalks or things like that can you know it will look better but it's also going to make give them a better quality of life which is to me important and

[00:15:17] and it's a busy area if you everybody else I think already spoke in regards to the attainable housing and then we get there when you know when we get a little closer and that's in the other But if we can go to the next one, that one, you know, my concern is I know that we, you know, we are small when it comes to territory and, you know, our green areas are, you know, more now because of the Marstela Park.

[00:15:47] But I would like to know how, if in the future, how short we are compared to other small areas. I mean, it's hard to compare apple to apple because, you know, we are unique. But I would like to see, you know, what is it that is needed and if there was opportunities.

[00:16:07] Because we're looking at, you know, 2045. And I believe as we get closer, you know, housing will be even a bigger challenge. So the green part will, you know, be even more difficult to keep.

[00:16:24] So I just want to, you know, have a more comprehensive idea of if we are sure how much and, you know, if there are opportunities under the way, what can we do to keep or to have more greens? So the comprehensive plan, if I may, Your Honor, it does, it's called the level of service standard.

[00:16:43] So we set that back about a little less than 10 years ago, an aspirational level of service standard of 8 acres. per thousand residents. So with all the expansions that we've accomplished over the last really five years, the current plan is going to say, the plan that you'll get for adoption will say we're about a deficit of 37 acres using that standard. And that aid was very much designed to be aspirational because we knew if you set it at five, then people would say, oh, we don't need any more parkland. And that clearly didn't mesh with what you would hear from the community. So we're at a deficit. That will continue to grow based on rough population standards to 112 acres. One of the

[00:17:20] reasons that's by 2045 by the way sorry one of the reasons we want to update the more technical document after the comprehensive plan is to start looking at things that we didn't do in the current comprehensive plan and current park master plan which is looking at how much of that acreage is made up by HOAs because there's a lot of we've never done that assessment so we want to spend a lot of time people who see that 112 acre number and say well there's not 112 acres available in the city we kind of know that but and there's some properties around but we really want to look at do a better assessment over the next five years of what our total parks open space recreation

[00:17:55] picture looks like. But we are still at a deficit on green space, even with the significant acreage that we've purchased over the last five years. So I will now turn over to Chloe for her mobility master plan presentation. Thank you. So in 2019, the city's first transportation master plan was completed five years later it's time to update and it's known now as the mobility master plan so this plan is a multi-modal plan it looks at roadways transit access bike and pedestrian

[00:18:34] facilities it will give it gives a comprehensive overview of existing condition and then provides recommendations for improvement and those recommendations then I incorporated into the comprehensive plan of the other mobility chapter and then other policies and standards like for example the traffic coming policy and then update to article 9 of the DCSM design. So as part of this plan we compile all the existing conditions into a two-page fact sheet called the mobility fact sheet so here is the first page and

[00:19:10] the first section talks a little bit about demographics in general about the city then it goes a little bit more into mobility about 150,000 average daily trips in Manassas, 10% of those trips are under one mile and about 25% of those trips are under two miles. So those trips show an opportunity to shift from vehicular trips to bike and pedestrian trips as well as micro mobility. In terms of commuting, more people come to the city to work

[00:19:44] than versus going out of the city. About 2,000 people live and work in the city and the most popular way of commuting is driving alone with 72 percent followed by carpooling and working from home 10 percent each and this is the second page talks a little bit about information about our roadways our bike facilities transit ridership with very young track and omni ride and the last section um shows a bit about opportunities for improvement talks about crashes in manassas bike

[00:20:22] safety, congestion, and then community satisfaction survey results. So here are the roadway recommendations. So as part of this plan, the city's traffic model was updated, and this showed the map for existing traffic as of 2024. It shows all the signalized intersection in the city, and the level of service based on delay of second per vehicles. And so in the city, where we find acceptable level of service is C or better citywide,

[00:21:01] except for Garton and Liberia where we accept a level of service D, knowing that those roadways are heavily impacted by the traffic from Prince William County. So 50 out of 62 intersections are at level of service C or better, which shows a good operation.

[00:21:20] 12 out of 62 intersections are at level of service D or worse, and only one intersection is failing currently at Prince William Parkway and Liberia. So 52 out of 54 intersections at level of service C or better in 2018 from the previous plan continue to operate at a similar level of service in 2024.

[00:21:42] So after looking at existing, we looked at future for 2045. As part of the plan, two scenarios were developed, one assuming the construction of the RAD-28 bypass and one without the Route 20 bypass due to the uncertainty of the project.

[00:21:58] So this shows the without the Route 20 bypass and focuses mainly on Godwin, Liberia, Route 28, and the Hastings Corridors. So in the package, you have a table showing all the intersections with a level of service that was not acceptable.

[00:22:17] And then it shows recommendation to bring those intersections to an acceptable level of service. And those intersections are also listed here. In terms of major intersections, we have the Liberia-Princel Parkway intersection, which we already saw that was failing in existing conditions.

[00:22:38] Liberia Avenue and 28, Godwin Drive and Knoxville Road. And then within the downtown and 28 corridors, the Sudley Road and Centerville Road intersection. And then Grant Avenue at Church Street and Center Street. So here are the pastry and recommendations.

[00:23:01] In gray, you can see the existing sidewall network. And then in color, those are the gaps in those networks. So first, the gaps were identified, and then they were prioritized based on a number of criteria, looking at connectivity and access, access to schools, parks, medical facilities, transit, healthy food.

[00:23:24] Then it looked at equity and safety. And then so they were ranked and put into three categories. So the high priority category is shown in red, and then medium priority is in orange, and then low priority in yellow.

[00:23:45] There are about 20 projects in the high priority category. And then so the top projects from that will be Sandoval Road from Weir Place to Film Lane here, which is actually currently in the planning phase.

[00:24:04] Brandt Street from Bartow to Colossac. Mattis Avenue from Main Street to Maple Street, right here. We have a place from Sandville to the eastern terminus. Quarry Road from Euclid to Barry Heights, right here.

[00:24:25] And Sand Street from Zibidi to Prescott Avenue. Another thing here on this map is worth mentioning is in green, you can see areas to opportunities to connect neighborhood to the pedestrian network so four areas were identified you can see here around Stonewall Park, Kinsley Mill, Winters Branch and Hidden Elementary School. So again this is based on support from the community but it's just to

[00:24:56] show the opportunities there if desired. In terms of bicycle recommendation you can see here solid lines are the existing bike facilities the dashed line are the funded facilities and then dotted line of the fund and the plan and recommended facilities those recommendations were made based on a level of traffic stress analysis that's the first time that was developed by the consultant and basically looks at every roadway in the city and it shows how stressful or comfortable it is to ride on that particular road.

[00:25:34] And based on that, then the consultant made recommendation for a facility that would make anyone from any age and any abilities comfortable to ride on this specific roadway. So in orange, those are off-street facilities, which include share-use path, but also race cycle track, anything separated from the travel lane.

[00:25:58] In blue, those are on-street facilities protected, meaning a back lane, separated by a vertical barrier. So it could be planners, a parking lane, boards, anything with a vertical barrier between the traffic lane and then the pedestrian facility.

[00:26:16] And then on-street facility not protected would be back lanes. It could also be a buffered back lane, just marking, but no vertical barrier. And then lastly, share roads in purple, which are marking on the roadway, on the actual traffic lane to share the road, and then a signage on the side of the road.

[00:26:37] Another thing that's new here compared to the first plan is the addition of a nature route and a historic route. So the nature route here is shown in green, and it would link, it would connect three localities and connect basically Broad Run to Bull Run.

[00:26:57] It would be a long distance off-street path that would connect people to nature. And similarly, there is a historic route, which was added to your packet in yellow. So it would be an eastern route, eastern loop and a western loop connecting all the historic sites in the city.

[00:27:15] And the intent would be to, eventually when complete, to add some wayfinding and so people can explore the city based on interest, you know, whether it's nature or learning more about the history in the city. So similarly to the pedestrian cities, those were prioritized based on the same criteria.

[00:27:40] And again, three categories, high, medium, low. There were about 10 projects in the high priority category. And here I highlighted the top five. So three of them are within the core downtown, Grand Avenue from Lee Avenue to Prince Ham Street.

[00:28:00] And then on Center Street from Church to ZBD. And then Church from Center to ZBD. And then number four is Signal Hill from Fairview to Liberia. and Hastings Drive from Clover Hill to Dumfries Road.

[00:28:19] And last but not least, one of the main elements of the Mobily Master Plan is traffic calming. Traffic calming uses different types of measures, such as here, a crosswalk refuge or mini roundabout to help slow down traffic in residential areas.

[00:28:38] There's a need because the city has received numerous complaints and concerns about speeding and cut-through traffic in residential neighborhoods. 80% of fatal and severe crashes in the city are due to speeding. And then the recent cancellation of the Route 20 bypass, which projects to further increase traffic through downtown.

[00:28:57] In terms of project, as part of the last comprehensive plan, the 2040 comprehensive plan, safety corridors were identified throughout the city to focus on safety and traffic calming. Liberia and Hastings were part of those.

[00:29:13] Also, recently in the fall, we had a neighborhood meeting with residents along Main Street to talk about safety and speeding along Main Street. A concept was developed after the meeting, which was shared with the residents along Main Street.

[00:29:30] And implementation is planned for the spring to help with that street, that corridor. And then the need to look at the Route 28 downtown corridor reconfiguration to be able to include those bike facilities I mentioned earlier, but also to make sure it's still safe for people to walk.

[00:29:50] It's very workable right now, and then we want to make sure everyone is still feeling safe to walk downtown. So that's one area. And then lastly, the mobile plan is making recommendations along specific intersection and corridors as well to look at traffic coming.

[00:30:11] So should I pause here before we go into the timeline? Yeah, we can pause for a second. So, I mean, the big picture here is the Mobility Master Plan. It's our technical document. It really tries to weave together everything from your roadway recommendations to your bike and ped recommendations.

[00:30:28] And as Chloe mentioned, really a growing need, as all members of council have heard, for traffic coming specifically in the neighborhood. So it's a technical document. What happens is the technical document gets broken up. So those top projects do get adopted into your comprehensive plan along with the maps and all the pretty pictures.

[00:30:47] But then there's a whole myriad of documents in the city that need to be also updated once we finish this process. The biggest one probably being the traffic calming policy, which is about 25 years old. There is an adopted traffic calming policy by council, and it's radically out of date.

[00:31:03] So one of the projects that will come out of the mobility master plan will be rescinding that old document and putting in some more, putting in a new policy with some real backbone with doing the neighborhood planning before you decide on the treatment. So not, we put some examples up here, but not every treatment will work in every neighborhood.

[00:31:19] And there's a real need to meet with the community before the neighborhood, before you just start painting stuff. But in the end, I think more so than the previous mobility plan, this idea of traffic calming and addressing pedestrian safety especially is really something that's grown even more in the last five years.

[00:31:37] And certainly with the 28 project changing the lay of the streets, it's going to be a growing issue in the downtown. So I think we'll pause there and I'm sure there's a lot of questions and comments on mobility. Thank you. I think, you know, most of the top ones that you have, like, I can see it.

[00:31:57] Somehow we all have experienced them. We have heard from residents, especially for the common. And then, you know, sometimes residents think that putting a bump or putting something will make a change, but it's a lot of work.

[00:32:13] I'm so glad to see that. And my only ask will be, you know, don't forget something about the trains so people don't continue to turn. Because, you know, it is, yeah, I know, but it continues to be dangerous, so I hope that, you know, something is looking to see what can be done there, because I think that that one is really important.

[00:32:39] I was told we had a new, we had another incident, and we are working on another design option that we just were talking to VRE about today on a call with VRE, so I think it's something we can implement fairly quickly. I just got to tell the city manager because I haven't talked about it.

[00:32:56] I was going to say, I haven't heard about this one. Anyone else? I'm sorry, I thought you were done. No, no, no, you're fine. Just, you know, to finish up with that, I think, you know, at the end, you know, the conversations and having the input, you know, from the residents, but it's just that the data is there, it is understood, you know, So my ask will be for the residents to remember that it takes time not only to get the information,

[00:33:29] but to make sure that what works there will work because you want something that will last and it will help. Whether it's coming to traffic or whether it's, you know, keeping the pedestrian safe when they go across.

[00:33:46] But I believe the ones that have been implemented so far in many different places like Hastings and, you know, 28. You know, they have been very helpful. A few things.

[00:34:01] Number one, on the recommended intersection improvements, Sudley and Centerville, we talked about adding a slip lane, but I see no mention in here at the roundabout. This is a little, this takes a little bit of background, and I'll let Chloe correct me after I get it wrong.

[00:34:17] So that is the roundabout. The model we use, and the reason you're seeing a failing condition at the roundabout us because the model we use is very very aggressive in terms of projecting traffic we basically take the county's traffic model and force it through our model so i'll let chloe give you the numbers but compared to what vdot thinks the growth rate is going to be which is so basically the last last time you you had a work session on the roundabout you were shown a growth rate of 30 percent and you saw that the roundabout was failing at about 30 percent growth and this is showing the roundabout at 50% growth.

[00:34:58] And so based on VDOT's planning number, we'll reach 17% by 2045. And the design that's shown in the document that you're mentioning is to bring back the roundabout to an acceptable level of service once we reach 50% growth.

[00:35:16] And it's still going to be working by adding those different. Well, roundabout still puts more traffic through than any other solution. If you put a signal in there, that would be, I don't even think we have a red to express if you put a signal back there? That's one. Number two, Liberia in 28. Obviously, we know about our friends in the county. I see in here, A, B, new intersection crossover. Other than a lot of money, what would that involve? It's one of those innovative intersection that limits

[00:35:51] left turn. So basically, the left turn movement and the straight movement will happen at the same time so it kind of it decreased the delay by changing the type of movement that happened at the same time but so the left yes the left coming from like coming from 28 to liberia will happen at the same time as uh is bound on 28 because i mean this becomes critical because in a very informal conversation you know the county's plan is to follow more traffic down liberia

[00:36:25] already failing all over the place uh and lastly if you could elaborate a little on the downtown realignment what was the phrase you have reconfiguration yes the the conversation the council needs to start having and the conversation the council needs to start having with the community is you have two competing traffic issues in the city so you have the need

[00:37:01] to move a large volume of traffic around the city so commuters get them to and then you also have the competing need from especially folks in the downtown to slow down traffic and to make it safer you know we certainly hear about accidents and concerns about speeding through the downtown so you have those two competing interests just to balance you out so the question is and it's running with what we're starting to hear from the council if we're gonna if there is no bypass How do you get traffic around the city?

[00:37:36] Liberia is part of that conversation. So if you're moving traffic, if you're able to move more traffic through Liberia, then take Liberia to the parkway and get them onto the parkway. So essentially a different form of the bypass around the city. Then what do you do in the downtown core? Do you do things to slow down traffic and make it harder for that to be the preferred route?

[00:37:56] So you start looking at things like, does the two-way pair still make sense, meaning church and center in two directions? We hear lots of comments about how are you going to slow down traffic on Center Street. As long as you have two lanes of traffic going through the heart of the downtown down Center Street, you are going to get speeding and you're going to get accidents.

[00:38:13] Again, this is a planning document, so we're not talking tomorrow. We're not talking even potentially, this takes a lot of study and a lot of conversation, but essentially we need to take a hard look, assuming the county sticks with the killing of the bypass project, and look at does the traffic configuration through the downtown, how can we make it safer?

[00:38:33] We're going to get more volume. Are there other ways we want to route traffic? But this needs to be a long conversation with the community, and council needs to start providing their vision. I assume council still wants to include traffic coming in the downtown as a goal.

[00:38:49] So to do both things, we have to start thinking about both the configuration downtown as well as how are we going to move some of this volume around the city. Big conversation. Is this the point in which we need to start thinking about potential or the need for zoning reform?

[00:39:09] In other words, a planning focus or a study of zoning reform led by the potential or the goals of planning, looking at restrictive barriers, for example, or some restrictive zoning, and other barriers that you may have to overcome to create some more flexibility?

[00:39:37] Possibly. I think the bigger issue with that kind of concept is going to be the bulk of the traffic we're dealing with is not generated within the city. I mean, you're dealing with traffic. Yes, the county needs to look at the county has enormous growth on the western side that pushes traffic downtown.

[00:39:54] So I can't tell the county what to do with their land use. For the city, I mean, the biggest we did do a big piece of reform in the current comprehensive plan, which was you took this density in the Mathis corridor down significantly from what was planned for 20, um, teen years. So you've done a bit of that already in terms of your planning documents.

[00:40:11] We can always look at how a land use change will make that work better. Certainly, council needs to be very mindful of things you do on Liberia Avenue. So some of the notions we heard in the current comprehensive plan of changes to the land use along the Liberia corridor and introducing residential or more density in that corridor, knowing the conditions we're facing with now, you need to be very careful on that corridor, absolutely.

[00:40:36] But in the end, it's a bigger issue here than the city can address in terms of land use. Not necessarily that you guys look at these things obviously in five-year lifespans. So not necessarily because life in 2045 is going to be different than life now.

[00:40:58] When you looked at it in 2020, things were different. My concern is, as we go forward, is inclusivity of our residents in some of these changes and ideas and the resilience of the city or the plans that we put in place.

[00:41:21] We were talking in the blue zone earlier about unique housing situations and so forth. We can't forget how climate change impacts different communities in different ways. And, of course, transportation.

[00:41:38] We're seeking to enhance, if you will, improve the use of VRE and potentially increase in bus transit. So all those things, obviously, will factor into whatever decisions you make in the blue corridor.

[00:41:55] So just concerning to make sure that we don't forget the word inclusivity. It means a lot more than what people think it means. i actually have a question about the proposed nature trail for the bike so so that's a bike trail right is that what that's going to be it's not defined yet could be uh it doesn't have to be paved it could be a natural surface trail but it would it could be a cherries trail where people can bike or walk it's not so that that's from broad run to bull run i can kind of follow it

[00:42:30] it looks like it goes through dean park is that right yeah so basically uh it would on the west side of the city would go over, I mean, it's Overlay Winters Branch, which is already existing, French Trump Street bike lane right now, and then through downtown, the alignment is along the VRE railroad track, all the way to Bull Run, Wayans, into Spoons Park in Manassas Park, and the alignment is also based on the 80th grant I would submit it for a rail reef trail there along the railroad track what is that between euclid and signal hill in manassas city

[00:43:10] what what is where is that at following the railroad yeah it's following the railroad there's no road there oh so there is oh okay okay so where you would work with prince william and manassas park yes is that what the grants were yeah the grant was a joint grant with manassas park and prince County to do a study about this railway trail. ATIP was not awarded. We heard that in January.

[00:43:35] So we are working with Manassas Park and Prince William County to see other funds opportunities to pursue that study. That's a good idea. Thank you. Thank you. So just following up on what's been said here, Councilman Wolfe started with here. You know, part of me is, especially in in downtown old town downtown along the way here uh if uh indeed we look at ways to calm traffic

[00:44:08] because i will say that there are concerns just right here in the crosswalk across from city hall for instance here and if things develop the way we want it to develop on the old town old town insight. We're going to expect more pedestrians along the way here. And so I think sometimes opportunities present themselves along the way here that we're not necessarily anticipating.

[00:44:42] So from the standpoint of single-lating, for instance, Center Street in Old Town along the way and extending the sidewalks out even further. You know, I know that in this plan was not the charge to look at that, but I would suggest to my fellow councillors that that may have an economic benefit to our businesses here because it creates more of a, I don't want to call it a mall, but more of a walkable atmosphere along the way,

[00:45:19] particularly if and when we have this second parking garage up and operational. I mean, certain things happen along the way. And so I think these are sorts of things with the appropriate input from various stakeholders, our residents, but certainly our business community down here to look at.

[00:45:38] And also looking at the same thing on Church Street, which is primarily doesn't have a lot of retail, but it does have businesses and has churches and so forth along the way. And a lot of people come out of Old Town and live there or park there and cross over right now.

[00:45:59] So increasing that mobility aspect, which would really be the traffic calming aspect of your slide. I mean, I think we need to start putting our head around things, you know, looking at a little broader here in that regard.

[00:46:18] Because for me, our residents are talking about getting around Manassas here. And that's our obligation is to figure out how we can help them move appropriately, but also in a safe, safe manner, which is we hear often.

[00:46:36] And I hear a lot about speeding. We hear about all that along the way and ways that we can do things on that. Which brings me to your traffic calming item here, which I wanted to talk a little bit more in depth about.

[00:46:54] So over the course of this last year, I've heard from several different neighborhoods. We have, as a council, gotten emails where there have been various concerns about traffic, the speed of the traffic, cut-throughs, all sorts of things.

[00:47:15] So, Chloe, you and I have talked about this here. Would you review sort of what's in the toolbox from least, the low end of traffic calming in the toolbox to all the way to the other end, what items are actually available to us or what are usually considered when a street, neighborhood, whatever intersection is looked at as possibilities?

[00:47:48] What would be the least intrusive moving forward? Well, least intrusive and the less costly marking, narrowing lanes, narrowing roadways, sometimes including bike lanes like we're proposing on Main Street.

[00:48:04] So we reduce the travel lane to 10 feet and then add a bike lane so people slow down or adding parking lane instead. So that's the least intrusive. And then it goes into concrete work with adding crosswalk refuge, again, in areas of lane, but also makes it safer for pedestrians to cross or bump out.

[00:48:26] So meaning, again, extending the corners to reduce the crossing distance, again, making it safer for pedestrians, reducing that distance. And then at the same time, it makes people drive slower. And then it goes into mini roundabout, again, more concrete work and one of the most expensive.

[00:48:46] because it requires, again, more concrete work. But, again, instead of a four-way stop where we hear complaints where people actually don't stop here, they have to slow down. They won't actually, people won't stop, but they have to slow down to go around the middle of the circle.

[00:49:01] So those are some examples of traffic calming treatment that can be used. Are these plastic bollards that not necessarily concrete it in, but I'll call them suction cup, but somehow secured, but if they get knocked over, they topple over.

[00:49:22] An example of lower end. Yes, this could be used temporary to pilot an area, to reduce, again, these travel lanes and make people slow down. It's a good way to actually test something and make it temporary, and then if it works, it can turn into concrete eventually.

[00:49:40] And so you mentioned on your list of projects a pilot project on Main Street, And that's one, of course, that started with two homeowners along one end of Main Street. Even though at the middle and the far end, there are a lot more people that live there.

[00:50:01] Did A, we ever hear from more than those two property owners, the two residents, in terms of ideas or their impressions of what traffic was like on Main Street? I did hear a complaint from one lady living in the apartment building, more on the south end near Wellington, about crossing again.

[00:50:23] It's not being safe for peace crossing there. So I did have other type of complaints. And in terms of comments on what's proposed, I have not heard anything. And that project is still in the sort of planning phase?

[00:50:41] Yes, the concept was sent to the community, I mean, to everyone living on Main Street in December. And again, I haven't heard any comments since. - So pretty recently, December of just last year.

[00:50:56] - Yes, last year, so it's pretty recent. And planned implementation was spring. Phasing out the, again, implementation, starting with phase one with marking and moving the parking lanes and adding bike lanes, some signage.

[00:51:15] - Gotcha. of these projects is you can do the community outreach and the implementation. We strike twice a year, so we can move fairly quickly on the short term. And then as people get used to them or if we need to make adjustments, concrete crew can come through a few years later and make it permanent. So you really, the toolbox that we're looking at here is really a fast action toolbox when you get a neighborhood complainant as opposed to adding another stop sign. We really wanted, we really felt as a staff that there needed to be a process where you talk to the community, give them the reasonable menu of options some being more or less intrusive and then showing results

[00:51:50] not in five years like a capital project but in six months okay and likewise we heard along jackson avenue and barnett that was a particular intersection but other parts of that along the way so some of these low cost easy to do i'll just use the bollards as a simple example of making a smaller kind of circle in the center of that intersection to cause people to at least maybe slow down, you know, to go around are feasible there or elsewhere, I mean, along the way here.

[00:52:28] We have a request from Bristol Station. We've been looking at how to better connect slow-down traffic and also better connect their green spaces along Confederate. So that's essentially using that mainstream model that's in our queue to look at next would be some low-cost ways to help traffic slow down to make it a little safer in that community.

[00:52:48] And not taking away from these projects, but sometimes it's just these little. I will say one thing that I have noticed because I've been more attuned to it now, especially since last year, is people will say this particular intersection, because I live near it, this is what I experienced along the way, but the overarching thing is I have never had a resident come to me when they bring these things up and say, you know what? Traffic moves too slow. I want you to make it faster. They're always saying, I want you to calm it, slow it, divert it, do

[00:53:28] something. But it's never the speed thing. And I think that's important for us to kind of remember overall, at least for me, is that what our residents overall, when they look at these things, they want to be able to back out. They want to be able, as they pull out of the house and come and trying to connect to a busy road to be able to see far enough around where the cars aren't going as fast along the way in those sorts of things here.

[00:53:55] So I'm pleased to see this sort of thing. I have one other aspect, if I may, Mayor. While it was not mentioned at all to me, it is an important part of our mobility plan, and I did already tell Matt and Chloe that I was going to bring it up so they could properly discuss.

[00:54:15] And that is handicapped parking, particularly in what I'll call congested areas or popular areas, Old Town being one of them, but it's not the only one, but we'll use this as an example, where as when festivals come along and then the handicapped parking is put in an area such as the triangular parking space that we have across from at the intersection of Prince William and main street that's over there close to a Baldwin school. And then you park there and you

[00:54:52] have somebody in a wheelchair and you're trying to push uphill and, uh, you know, these kinds of things here. Um, and I'm, I'm not saying that it, that isn't a good location to have, but I think one of the things I know I forget, um, it's not until I, I am experienced or somebody with me is experiencing mobility problems that you suddenly become aware of every crack in the sidewalk or how things aren't level or you're, you know, whatever, you're pushing a stroller and it

[00:55:28] bouncing all over the place and that sort of thing. So could you talk a little bit, wherever, on your thinking along the way, recognizing that we, short of turning every space into a handicapped parking space that there are, you know, some limitations here and how you're looking at this versus what might be coming along in the future. I mean, we generally know that there's a need. We haven't done a full-blown downtown parking assessment in a few years. We're still operating under the old plan. We know there's a general need to always be mindful of increasing

[00:56:06] handicapped parking, especially on the north side. So that's one of the things that we always look at when we re-stripe a lot or we do a paving plan, can we increase parking? I think the parking structure here is going to be an opportunity to take a hard look at whether we can really, and we have quite a few spots out there, but I think we can probably even look at if we need to increase that further on the north side.

[00:56:24] One of the issues you run into with parking is obviously the railroad tracks make the north side and the south side of the downtown separate. So you have to think about accessibility in both directions. We've taken some steps so we don't talk about it a lot. We have a mini project that we do through our sidewalk funding where we've been actually, If you've gone down Church Street and noticed the street lights have been moved out of the sidewalk, we're going to do that on Center Street as well.

[00:56:45] So we're also spending a lot of time looking at accessible routes, making sure those, A, that they're wide enough, but then another level we'll be starting to look at, you know, is the lot the proper lot in terms of getting uphill or changes in elevation in grade. We haven't done a lot of that.

[00:57:01] I'd be honest, a lot of these lots were designed quite a while ago before current ADA standards. So as we have time and concrete money, we do fix them. So if you look at the depot lot, you'll notice, I want to say it was two years ago, we actually made a change in the train depot lot so that the parking could actually get to the depot by modifying where the sidewalk was.

[00:57:24] We do make those modifications. I haven't taken a close look at the Main Street lot specifically or how we, I'll see if Doug's in the back there, Chief, how we designate handicap lots for events. I don't know if we've looked at that in a while, but we are, we are, it's incremental and we recognize that there is a need to provide it throughout the, throughout the downtown.

[00:57:44] And we are making changes as we, as they come up, opportunities arise. Well, as, as, as you talked and talked with us and you've heard from us and so forth, this is a very large situation and it has a lot of facets to it that need to be considered along the way.

[00:58:02] In no way do I think you solve it just like that, but it's important for us to consider those sorts of things. Ideally, in the comprehensive plan, we do have some aspirational mention about helping people, you know, park, get around and so forth that have mobility problems.

[00:58:25] Being aware or, you know, having that as one of our kind of criteria along with that. And having said that, the last thing would be, you know, last year, Mayor, when you had your meeting with the various neighborhoods, HOAs, and then even those that didn't, with various staff people, and they could meet and talk and really get together, I would certainly encourage that we have another one this spring, at least, or, you know, whatever the timing is being considered.

[00:58:57] To me, the traffic calming seems to be a big, big aspect because I think it would be helpful for neighborhoods to understand this is not something we're we've set aside. This is we are aware to Chloe's point there.

[00:59:15] There's a kind of toolbox of things we we do and look at and to help people understand these sorts of things. So not everybody's just saying, well, the city doesn't care, or more importantly, all you have to do is put up a speed camera.

[00:59:34] Well, a speed camera isn't going to be the first thing necessarily right off the bat there along the way here. There are other things that could be far more influential and have an impact. Because what we're really doing when we talk about traffic calming is we're trying to change drivers' behavior in a far more permanent way.

[00:59:55] And when we can do that at a cost that is appropriate to that and is successful, not everything needs a traffic circle or a road diet along the way. A lot of ideas, but I would hope that this could well be a portion of what's considered Mr. City Manager along the way here.

[01:00:17] So, Dina, I think it would be very helpful. Just stay tuned. I have a date in mind that I'm working on with the City Manager for the next neighborhood HOA meeting. I've just got to check a few more calendars, and we'll have something shortly. I would just ask that in addition to HOAs, somehow we figure out a way to reach other, I'll use the industrial school neighborhood.

[01:00:40] You know, there's a nucleus of people there. It would be good to have some representation there, but they don't have an HOA per se. And figure out ways, and elsewhere, there are other neighborhoods exactly like that, that we certainly want, I know, we want to have included that we make sure the best we can.

[01:00:57] so thank you thank you ma'am thank you madam mayor just a comment i think you know part of the uh places that was mentioned is our success uh that area was very successful in getting new asphalt and i believe when that change happened everybody started speeding a lot more when it comes to barnet and uh barnet jackson all the area as soon as you have them you Oh, the concentrated neighborhood paving?

[01:01:30] Yes, even Liberia. So it is great what we're doing because, you know, it's new and it's better, but it's also, you know, it is beautiful. It creates, you know, a little bit better conditions for people to be able to do that.

[01:01:49] I know that fact sheet that you had out with all the demographic data and stuff, and I know it's in our packet and I know, But do we have that, like, just posted somewhere where people can just go right to it? Yeah, so just to, I like that, it's actually a perfect tie-in.

[01:02:05] So your two websites are obviously the 2045 comp plan, manassasva.gov slash 2045 comp plan, and the MMP, or Mobility Master Plan. So that's in the MMP. That's all up there, all the data. As we do with any comprehensive plan or plan update, we are open for public comment.

[01:02:24] We are getting a decent amount of comment. um again not as robust as the current plan we did we're not doing three years of community conversations here this is a inline technical update but we are getting comments which are always appreciated we always run it for council's purposes we always run a tracker every comment we receive will be when you get it at the end for adoption you'll have every comment received from the public and a response to that comment that's something really important to show any comment we receive we are on track we got a little delayed because of this 28 issue and having to mess with our traffic model a little bit we are on track for planning commission

[01:02:58] to wrap up um and council should have this for final adoption in fall of 2025. so we are on track and as you have ideas or as you get comments send them our way that's it for this evening from the staff it's all yeah because that's when people go to monassacity.com they're able to just go right and see that any other questions comments council miss hudson uh we received an email um about a a possible stop sign which i don't know if that's the first stop but at the grant in or suddenly in

[01:03:38] grant yeah is that um has that been considered or is there any thought to that i will say on that intersection we're in the middle of the suddenly wrote their lane projects we have to take a look at we are adding one of the from the current plan number one one of our big requests was doing something with the crosswalk at grant and suddenly so we didn't have four legs of a crosswalk there we're in the process of implementing that so we got to look at how that plays out with construction and then we'll take a look at it with our public works and PD as part of our transportation coordination group about whether going from a yield condition to a stop

[01:04:14] condition makes sense there it causes issues obviously back onto Sudley and we may have other things we recommend a lot of times we look at it and say well we can't change from a yield and stop but here's something we can do to make it safer for her to get out of the driveway We are looking, I think the city manager responded that we're going to take a look at it.

[01:04:35] And typically when you get those requests, just as a reminder, someone from staff, typically the public works director is going to follow up and say, here's what we can do. And here's what we can't do. And the best thing about working for the city is when we say we can do it. Typically it's done a few days later. So, so it will be scheduled for a transportation coordination meeting.

[01:04:56] Matt is right because of it's complicated because that, that project technically, we're not supposed to do anything within the limits of that construction project because it's all under the contractor and get yelled at by VDOT and can I ask one follow-up with that like um so when that project is done is that intersect like that intersection is not really like you know straight across like is it gonna be reconfigured a little bit is that kind of what you're saying or is it just just that we can't really do anything while that's all under both we're gonna add crosswalk so as you know one of me I'm sure everyone's gotten the complaint that it's very hard to get across Sudley Road so we're adding one leg of the crosswalk as this part as the

[01:05:34] project I can't remember if we're doing all four legs we're definitely adding a crosswalk finally across Sudley Road there which has been a huge ask for a long time to get safely across Sudley so we're not going to fully reconfigure the intersection I think that was part of the reason that that intersection part of the intersection was closed it's closed so that they could make the improvements to that area to facilitate the pedestrian crosswalk got it thank you I have one last.

[01:06:02] So I was looking at the stuff about the last mile, the scooters, the bird scooters, and so forth. And I did the math, you know, based on the trips. There were, during that three-year period, you gave the total number.

[01:06:20] It was an average of 547 trips per month that people were using the scooters for, which to me is actually, I think, pretty good along the way here. So, Byrd went belly up, and as they rethought which jurisdictions they wanted to serve.

[01:06:40] So, is there, has there been anybody? There have been no inquiries. No, they expanded very quickly and pulled back once they...

[01:06:55] Well, if you left your sports car behind and scooted up and down. I mean, it is a scooter. It is a scooter. I scooted back and forth from my home in Georgetown South. They would share their data, and we saw those rides going.

[01:07:11] It wasn't just a downtown thing. It wasn't just an event thing. They were getting used. It was interesting to see, but unfortunately, we have not had, or fortunately, depending on how you feel about scooters getting left on the side of the road, we have not had any more inquiries. All I can say is, you know, with them being left behind, you go to D.C. or other large cities and so forth, It is the universal problem.

[01:07:37] It's not like there's a little rack every corner where they're going to be. There they are, and when you're finished, you disconnect, so to speak, because you don't want to be charged or anything, and you leave them there. And then the next person comes along, and that's the nature of it.

[01:07:54] Now, you're right, they may be only viable in a very, very urban atmosphere, like a city of some size along the way, and we won't have it. but I do think that I saw a lot of young people use them.

[01:08:13] And to me, that was great to get an age group used to using this because you're changing habits. They're not using the car. They're not going to bicycle per se, but they're willing to scoot on a scooter. And that would carry forward as they got older along the way, I would think.

[01:08:32] But it is what it is. All right. Thank you. Mr. Burke? Yes, sir. On to parking. Yes, well, technically not parking. As part of the discussion of parking districts, the Treasurer's Office has requested that we discuss with Council the opportunity to consolidate the sale of Georgetown South permits.

[01:08:57] Right now we have two different time periods of selling permits. We sell the two permits that every property is entitled to and then follow-up sale period for the one lottery ticket, for want of a better word.

[01:09:18] The treasurer would like consideration by council to consolidate that into just one, the sale at the January time period. In order to do that, we would need to amend the resolution adopted by council and put in a new resolution, as well as we would ask council's consideration that those that currently have the one additional permit in Georgetown South, that permit would not expire in July, but it then expire in January, so that everything could be carried forward until the next major sale of those permits.

[01:09:58] So, originally we did this because it was a staffing situation from the Treasurer's Office.

[01:10:14] I take it they have resolved that staffing situation? It's my understanding that, yes, there was concern that they would not be able to provide a timely number of permits. And they have resolved staffing as well as concerns about knowing how many permits would be issued as far as the additional.

[01:10:36] So, yes, sir, the treasurer's office is confident that they can continue to serve the citizens in Georgetown South in a timely fashion with a single period for permit sales. And so my second item would be, assuming that you get your four or more head nods, go ahead and move ahead on this.

[01:10:59] I would recommend that the GTS Board of Trustees, through their community manager, be notified that this is being contemplated and to make sure that they have an opportunity just to provide feedback on the off chance that there's something that we're not aware of along with that.

[01:11:23] Yes, sir. And again, this isn't something that's going to happen in March. We have a few months to work this through. So yes, sir, we have time to talk with them. Okay, perfect. I'm okay with it. For me, will you explain, okay, in between my concern, I know it's not much, but you know the price, And I know before I talked about the unused parking for, you know, the visitors, but for this, you know, when the time comes to change, will it be a longer?

[01:12:01] If you can just explain it again. It will be longer, and then the price won't change. Correct. If you currently have one of the lottery Georgetown South parking permits, It currently would expire in July 2025.

[01:12:20] With what we're proposing, that expiration would carry forward to January 2026 with no cost to the permit holder. I just noticed the date is incorrect on the form.

[01:12:41] It says here, expiration of the third permit currently possessed would be extended to January 2025. It should be 2020. Thank you. Anybody? Bit nods?

[01:12:56] Yes. Okay, what? as part of the agenda when Prince William County eliminated Route 28 the next item was a an item that established the joint I always can never remember this name which is intended to provide

[01:13:30] representation from the county, Manassas, and Manassas City so that the county can then present any updates or issues as far as shared services are provided. It's my understanding that the intent is to have the mayors from the city as well as the from the board's chair and then a member of council and then an alternative member of Council to be selected from each city.

[01:14:06] So we just wanted to let you all know that that is something that's coming. The county has requested that as soon as practical, the council appoint their members so that then the county can work with the appointed members to determine what the best date for future meetings would be.

[01:14:33] The county, as of an hour ago, has not chosen their second member. No, they have not. Or they're alternating. I had talked to Chris, and I told him we were having a work session, and we were talking about this, and hopefully we'll have an answer to him tomorrow. But that depends on what y'all decide.

[01:14:52] I'm definitely going to be on it, so we need to identify two other people. One is the member, and one is the alternate. Well, if I may, Mayor, I would like to, you know, when we propose this, A year ago, we had nominated and selected Mark and him to be our representatives.

[01:15:17] And in keeping with that, we didn't do any alternates or anything like that. But I would suggest that Mark continue. He has the longevity and experience, you know, kind of the institutional knowledge there, along with the mayor representing us.

[01:15:35] and then I would recommend that we ask Sonia if you're ready to be the alternate there to serve in keeping with what we did a year ago. I sent an email because I'm very interested, but I will say, you know, whoever is serving on this one, you know, other than the mayor, of course, the other two different people should serve on the school so people get to rotate.

[01:16:06] For the school board one that Tom and Mark were on? So if we are on the county, on the three, yes. Then I will say, you know, different people should be on the school. And then, you know, and then alternate.

[01:16:23] I think this is going to be something successful that will continue. So I hope that in the future years, you know, just like other appointments, whether it's every two years or every year. I think this is every year they have an opportunity to, you know, to do that like we do in the other boards and commissions.

[01:16:44] Any other thoughts? Are you good with alternate, as Tom said, or you think you'd rather be? I was looking to be the member. I would say, obviously, I would like to continue the work that I've done with this and getting this started.

[01:17:08] and obviously the knowledge I have with these documents go back to the most recent agreement if the county dates to 1996. This one dates to 1975. Many, many pages of enjoyable reading.

[01:17:30] I ask if you step down from going to the school and then if we pick somebody else. I don't know who's interested. I understand. I'm not going to make it a fight. The school's thing is a totally different entity, shall we say.

[01:17:48] just leave it at that there's problems in the room i'm going to keep my mouth shut we need to hear from you whether you are the group one or my suggestion that's on your suggestion i have no comment actually theresa i'm fine with mark being the liaison and sonya being the alternate um i appreciate both of you all's enthusiasm um i think you're both equally

[01:18:27] qualified so i would say i don't have an opinion no comment go ahead sonya have fun and it's an open meeting so anybody can come it's not like you can't be there so um but i think that'll be good for sonia to be so it'll be me and you and then mark you alternate are you okay with being alternate sure all right we'll do that we'll let chris snow city manager's time thank y'all for that um your your clerk of council provided you with a calendar for the month of november

[01:19:05] So, November 20th was scheduled to be a joint meeting with the school board. Unfortunately, they are not available the week of the 17th. So, what Eric has requested is council to look at the two weeks prior and see if there is a day or two that would work for y'all so that they can then work with the school board to see which day would be working with their schedules.

[01:19:38] We're looking at the week of the 3rd and the week of the 10th. Yes, ma'am. Instead of the week of the 17th. Yes, ma'am. Exclusive of the dates that are already taken. Just a point of information. So this is a little bit off in that when we had our last appointments meeting in January, we ran across some conflicts getting the group together.

[01:20:05] And we had moved our meeting on the 19th, which I think is that darker blue, to the 18th, just saying. I'm not saying it's cut in stone, obviously, because the school board, I think we'd all agree, school board, council, far more important.

[01:20:22] But I just wanted to put that out there along the way. And I had thought we had moved our work session on, originally when we were putting this together, the work session we had on the 17th, we put so that we could meet with the school board on the 20th there.

[01:20:43] Mr. City Manager, is the school board available the 17th, or is every day of the week of the 17th out? It is my understanding that it is the week in its entirety. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. That's what I need to look at.

[01:21:04] Parks and Rec meets on the 12th. For me, the 5th and the 13th are both available. We're just throwing out dates. The 4th is Election Day. I'm assuming everybody knows. I don't want to do that day, but the 5th and 13th are open. Do they just send you or send to Eric availability?

[01:21:25] I've been trying to hash that out right now. If you can send it to Eric and Karen, our availability is there. Of those two weeks, I think that'll be better than trying to hear from everybody at once tonight. The 6th is a breakfast, so it is available in the evening if that works for everyone else.

[01:21:42] Say that again? The 6th is blocked out, but it is the breakfast, so there's nothing that we've got scheduled in that evening. Other than that, that's all that I have. Okay. Anything else? Yeah, I actually have two, maybe three things.

[01:22:00] Number one, as I'm sure most people are aware, the General Assembly and its infinite wisdom. Last year allowed localities the opportunity to increase council pay. And I want to see if there was four people running on their head to direct Mr. Brown to start the process in drafting documentation.

[01:22:25] 2027, yeah. I'm sorry? 2027? It would take effect July 1st, 2027. My knowledge is correct. So, yeah, it has to be done before it has to be approved, a public hearing, approved in an election.

[01:22:47] I don't want to hear it all mad. I might as well do it in the budget. That's going to be great. All the same day. Go ahead. I'll be quick. Some other localities already took that, and they went on and did it, so we wouldn't be the first ones.

[01:23:04] And, yes, it doesn't take effect until 2037. Mr. Ossinger. What I was going to just say, Mr. Wolfe left out, but the justification for this, and it is a matter that when proponents brought this forth and it was voted upon for this to take place,

[01:23:38] is that it would be another way to be able to encourage more of our community to run for elected city council in particular because the pay would be that much more. All of us know what's engaged by doing this job, and I would dare say that all of us have either other jobs that we do or have had other jobs, and we balance all of this along the way in this regard here.

[01:24:12] And there are people of lower economic means that are, I know, interested in serving the city here. But given the amount of money that it pays and the hours that are involved, because they are significant, that having a higher rate of pay would certainly alleviate that for some people along the way.

[01:24:39] And I think that's important to know in that regard. And with that, I would be in favor of moving forward and having the public hearing and then us having a vote. Do we have four people in agreement?

[01:24:56] Tom, Ashley's nodding. That's three. Sonia. Good. Good thing. I'm sorry. Did they sell a monitor limit? Yes. it is $34,000 for council and $36,000 for the mayor subject to cost of living increases one more thing sorry for this a housekeeping item and I don't have a dog in this fight but I'm going to throw it out we have two offices upstairs in the fourth floor I will be honest

[01:25:34] I would opine don't get used I didn't know if there would be a willingness to consolidate to one office whether one of the existing offices or big one next to uh the city manager's office free up space i'm staying okay mr king i may have some update on this if this is in reference to the senate well we're going to get there if it depends what how this went

[01:26:11] i met with them last friday when we had coffee with a cop and they were pursuing office space in the region and they were meeting with Manassas Park because as they built their new city hall they had open spaces so I didn't get word back whether that was positive or not but I wanted to give you that update because mr. Wolf had asked me about this anyway and whether it was yeah so the second part of the equation was going to be whether we want to be able to have an

[01:26:50] office here at City Hall which I would be honest I think would be a positive for the community but notwithstanding that freeing up space because we have staff needs we will have staff needs I'm sure at some point in the future so anyway I just throw it out we are adjourned thank you

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