Coraggio Consulting
Manassas City Council 3/19/2025

Date: Wednesday, March 19, 2025
Place: Manassas City Council, Virginia
Length: 1h 37m (video)
Official meeting video (Wistia / RegionalWebTV): https://fast.wistia.net/embed/iframe/5ph53rxsls

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-17. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:00] session of Wednesday, March 19th. Mr. Smith, please call the roll. Here, Ms. Younger. Present. Vice Mayor Wolf. Here. Council Member Ellis. Here. Council Member Smith. Here. Council Member Lucina. Here. Council Member Vasquez-Luna.

[00:00:16] Present. Council Member Hudson. Here. Thank you very much. We have one item on our agenda for tonight. Item one, discussion items, non-tax supported funds operating in CIP. and I know we have airports here and lots of great stuff.

[00:00:33] We do, Mayor. Exciting night for us, for you to get updated on the airports. We're going to do several different things tonight. I'm going to go over the page 193 of your book is the airport operations budget, page 193.

[00:00:53] We're only going to be there for a few minutes because the airport runs its own balanced budget. As you know, they generate their own funds to support their operations. What you're not going to see in there are the three positions that Director Rivera asked for.

[00:01:13] He asked for an airport operations officer and two maintenance workers. We did not include those. Two ops and one agency. Yeah, you're right. Two airport operations officers, one maintenance worker, total three positions we did not recommend.

[00:01:32] The reason we did not recommend that is because we didn't have a set timeline of airports, of when they're going to come on. So we're not going to spend a lot of time about those positions. We'll circle back to those at the end. We believe it's important for you to hear the CIP projects from Juan, then a presentation from airports.

[00:01:54] then you need to hear from AVPORTS that they are on a timely schedule and it's time to hire these three positions and put them in the budget now and they are supportive of supplementing the cost for those or if we want to put them off mid-year, quarter-year and come back and do a supplemental.

[00:02:14] That's the reason we did not put them in the budget. Any questions about that? So if you then switch over to your CIP, which is really the big stuff for the airport, we're going to turn that over to Juan to talk about his four major CIP projects.

[00:02:35] Juan, if you'll go to page 333, is your air traffic control tower is up first. If you can talk about that project first, Juan. Thank you, Chief Keene. We are making excellent progress on the air traffic control tower.

[00:02:53] We have an environmental assessment that's underway in conjunction with the design. There's a 15% design, and we actually have a concept. We've been working with the FAA, so that project's moving on very well.

[00:03:11] The next project is the fuel farm update. That project has been in the CIP. We just made some changes to it. Our fuel farm is probably somewhere in the 25-year-old range. We've seen a little bit of leakage out of the containment wall when it rains, so we need to go in there and upgrade that and make some more room.

[00:03:37] If we have to increase the volume of fuel that the airlines might be taking, we want to make sure that when we do update the fuel farm, we add some extra room there for some additional tanks. I'll skip down to page 337 because the projects that I'm going to highlight are ones that had changes to them.

[00:04:03] And in this particular case, the one-way rehab project, 1634 rights are a long runway. We recently completed a preliminary concept on that, or preliminary design, actually.

[00:04:19] And what we found was we will be able to do this project with a basic mill and fill. We will be adding three inches variable depth across the full width of the runway to take the increased loads that we anticipate for heavier aircraft.

[00:04:42] So we thought prior to the preliminary work, we weren't sure whether we'd have to do any full depth work. So that hopefully will drop the price on this project from $20 million maybe down to somewhere in the $15 range.

[00:04:58] But until we put it out to bid, we won't really know. We anticipate getting a grant for the design effort sometime in June of this year from the FAA for the design only. And I will jump down to the new projects that are in the airport CIP, the first of which is found on page 346.

[00:05:22] And this is the runway and taxiway bridge replacement. This is something I have discussed at previous council meetings. So, you know, we're attacking this really on two different fronts. We continue to actually do the design for the replacement of the two bridges.

[00:05:42] And in conjunction with that, AvPorts has hired a separate company called Walter P. Moore, which is a structural engineering firm, which is doing a forensic analysis of the bridge. We have gotten a recent update from them.

[00:05:58] And their preliminary paperwork, or basically the paper drill that they've done, And it looks like there might be some reserve in the bridges themselves, meaning that they can carry some additional weight. So what they have to do now is they're actually going to be putting sensors all over the bridge, and they'll be running across it with different weights.

[00:06:18] And we were even trying to get some of the aircraft owners of our larger aircraft to let us know what their landing and takeoff weight is so that we can tell the folks who will be monitoring the system when these aircraft are taking it off.

[00:06:33] so they can see what the bridge is actually doing. So essentially what we'll end up with is a range. Say, for example, aircraft that weigh X amount of weight up to this amount is fine. You know, this weight, you know, if you go beyond a certain weight, you can do it X amount of times per year, and then you don't want to go beyond this other.

[00:06:55] But ultimately we will end up with a PCN, which is basically an exact number that we have to give the airlines for them to do their calculations. So we're making great progress in that, and preliminary results will look promising, but we're not going to know for sure.

[00:07:13] So we have to keep moving forward with the bridge design in case, and if we have to do that replacement, another thing that we're working in conjunction with half ports, they're paying for it, is we want to know whether or not the safety areas would have to be replaced, those bridges.

[00:07:30] If we can figure out that those don't have to be replaced, then that's a game changer because now we're not replacing 600 feet of bridge. We're only replacing a 150-foot wide bridge and a 50-foot bridge, and that will actually decrease the amount of closure significantly.

[00:07:51] So that's a very important piece of information that we hope to get out of this study, and I don't want to take all of Pernop's under two slides. I need to add one thing. That's actually in your book, is listed for FY27, not FY26.

[00:08:06] And the reason it's in 27 is because we don't know, as Juan explained. So mid-year, when he gets these results back, we may be coming back and do a budget amendment to get this project started in FY26.

[00:08:22] But we can't make that decision. We didn't want to put it in the 26 because we don't have the answer yet. May I ask one or two questions? you'll take them? Yes, sir. So I'm not exactly clear what you just told me. Are you telling me, this is why I have the question, are you telling me that the bridge is being, well, you're telling me the bridge is being tested and it is possible forensically, and then you're doing

[00:08:56] these extra things now, that it has additional life in it? Well, for example, you know, the bridge is rated 115,000 pounds if there's enough reserve and we can get up to 150,000 then that's a good thing because that gives the airlines you know they can bring in bigger airplanes have more fuel more baggage more passengers and that's obviously what they want uh but the key too is to get this if we can delay the the the bridge it's at some point the bridge has to be replaced that's where It will have to be replaced at some point, but if we can delay that for, say, five years,

[00:09:36] that will allow me to get it into the program with the FAA, so the FAA is paying for 90% of it, state's picking up 8%, and we're only picking up 2%. Now, that could change, you know, depending on the reauthorization, it's gone from 95% to 90% back and forth the many years that I've been doing this, but that is really the key is if we have to replace it, which we will. Can we get five years out of it? And can we have that additional, you know, load on it? And it might be, well, okay, you could do 150,000, but you'll have to replace it in three

[00:10:14] years. Or if you do 130, you know, you might be able to stretch it out. But I think we're looking at two things. One, we want to get started as soon as possible. And the airlines are going to need to know what they're dealing with, as well as ourselves. But we also need to know how long can we delay replacing them? Because that allows me to get this into the FAA's program. Our program is built out for three or four years as it is. And, you know, we have to get it programmed and the FAA has to come up with the money. So next question is how long? So

[00:10:51] you answered my initial question. And so the second part is how long does it take to replace this bridge right now the reason i ask is so let's assume your scenario plays out three to five years but at some point you said it will be replaced what's the what i'm really after is so now we have commercial air flights coming along then we go okay time to replace this and how long will this runway essentially be out of commission based on and i can't really answer that right now until we

[00:11:29] get some more information you know i would say the high end would be 90 days ideally we would get that down to 45 if we certainly don't have to do the safety areas you know it's probably going to be closer to the 45 day now um when they go to do this as i understand it both bridges will be torn out at the same time uh so uh when you say both for the runway bridge and the taxiway bridge you know uh and then they will another incentives are another thing that we can work on you give the contractor additional money if they get it done sooner uh so we got a lot of things that we can

[00:12:03] do to push it along um but i'm really kind of hesitant to tell you because if i say in public and it's going to be 45 days i'm going to hold it to me and then you know it's 90 but uh you know i would hope it wouldn't be any more than 90 days uh we could hopefully pare that down i just want idea. It would be like six months or anything. That's what I was fearful might be the case.

[00:12:30] That's where I'm headed. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I would like to start with the air traffic control. Do you have, because it's for 2026, do you have an idea on how long want to take, and will that be before the commercial agreement arrives?

[00:12:53] The hope is that we will take advantage of BIL funding. So we are pushing really hard to get the design done and be in a position to apply. We have to bid it out for next year to get the BIL funding. What's holding us up right now is the environmental.

[00:13:11] It's not that the environmental hasn't been. It's been done. We're waiting for the fa comments uh right now all environmentals are on hold with the faa uh under the new administration um so we're not sure when we're going to get comments back from that so that that plays into it but let's just assume that that gets approved and we get the fonzie uh we would start construction uh probably in 26 um and that's probably an 18 month uh project uh we will be

[00:13:45] operating with the existing tower until the new tower is built has to be commissioned and then once that's done the existing tower will be torn down. Thank you so much for 15% design. We're at 15% design right now. We will be at 45% design or 50% almost 50% in June. On the fuel farm and And, you know, I know that, you know, you don't have the approximate, but just to have an idea if you need to expand so you have enough,

[00:14:24] would that be like adding up 20%? You know, I'm not going to do that on many counts because it won't be difficult. But just to have an idea how big it was. I hope I'm not getting too much in the team. That's fine. The FBOs are telling me that, you know, They think that they have enough fuel volume at the beginning of the process.

[00:14:48] But like anything else, as they ratchet up, my understanding is we're probably looking at maybe adding two 20,000-gallon tanks, so maybe 40,000 more capacity. The good news about Manassas is we don't have a problem getting loads of fuel.

[00:15:07] You know, we can get fuel every day if we need it, if they need it. We're not in the fueling business. The airport's not in the fueling business. But the FBOs, you know, if you were in southwest Virginia, you know, you might have a problem getting a load once a week or something.

[00:15:23] We can get it pretty much when we need it. It's just a, you know, a bonus of being up in this area because the pipe runs like the Dulles. So, especially with Jet A. So, they're telling me right now that they will be in good shape with what they have existing.

[00:15:42] It might be one of those things where they have to get more truck loads per week. And if we can get an extra 40,000 gallons, let's say, of jet fuel, maybe that reduces how much they have to get every week. But like I said, the fuel farm has not been touched for 20-plus years, and there are some things in the containment area we need to do.

[00:16:05] Oil-water separator might need to be replaced. And we would like to be able to fix the entrance so that the fuel trucks aren't hanging out so close to the road. If the driver knows what he's doing, he can get the truck out of the road.

[00:16:22] But I've actually driven by there before and seen the last thing you want is the back of a fuel truck hanging out so close to the road. So one of our things is to kind of redesign that road so that when they pull off, they're totally off the road. So that's another aspect of this we want to take care of.

[00:16:48] It was about the bridge, but you already asked plenty of the bridge. The next project is the maintenance and snow removal equipment storage facility. this uh you will see with the plans that the apports have our maintenance facility is going to have to be torn down and it will have to be torn down in phase one uh so it's pretty quick and um in the franchise agreement uh they have to replace it uh at their cost um it also says

[00:17:24] in there that we have the ability to uh at our cost to make it bigger than what it exists and And we will probably be doing that. So they will be responsible for the current size of the facility.

[00:17:44] But this equipment storage facility has to house our snow removal equipment. And we're going to have to have more equipment. And the equipment that we're looking at replacing what we have are three-in-one vehicles. Those things are like 50 to 60 feet long in some cases.

[00:18:02] so they would barely fit in the facility that we have now. So we're looking at something closer to what Charlottesville would have in size. It would house the snow command area.

[00:18:21] It would have showers, restrooms, bunk rooms in there as well. These are all things that are required by the FAA if you're going to build one of these structures. So we would end up coming back to council and asking to build this facility larger than what, you know, we have now.

[00:18:44] So a good chunk of it would be taken care of by our friends from airports. The other additional space would be picked up by the airport. But if you're going to do this, it makes sense to do it one time and make sure it fits all the equipment we anticipate having to do.

[00:19:00] Like anything else, when you bump up to commercial service, there is a higher level of expectation that you get these Priority 1 facilities cleared very quickly. And the picture I have in there is not what the facility is going to look at.

[00:19:20] It would be nice, but that was the only picture I could find to kind of show you what I'm talking about. That looks very nice, doesn't it? So I think that's what he wants, unfortunately. Every time he turns to me and goes, Adports will pay for that.

[00:19:40] I feel like I need to look for my checkbook. Am I paying for it right now, this minute? And the last project is the airport utility infrastructure improvements. This is actually, we parked this in the airport's CIP, but this essentially is the utility infrastructure that needs to be done for the terminal expansion, and this cost is actually coming from app ports as well, but we needed a way to track it.

[00:20:10] Am I explaining that correctly, Diane? Yeah. Yeah, so it makes sense that the work is going to be done at the airport, but as you can see, we're not paying for it. That's part of the cost of our utilities. We'll actually do the work, but it'll be paid for by app ports.

[00:20:30] And that's all the new projects. Everything else that we have in here are existing projects. And I'm standing ready to answer any questions you may have on any of those as well. So on 337, backing up to the rehabilitation away, you mentioned when you were talking there, the price drop could possibly happen.

[00:20:50] But then you mentioned a grant that we would be trying to get. Do we know how much that is? Or do you not just kind of say, here, here's money? Well, no. All of the grants that we get from the FAA for eligible projects are 90%.

[00:21:06] And then 95%, well, I take that back. Just recently, the FAA did a reauthorization, and I'm pretty sure they increased it to 95%. So, again, it keeps going back and forth.

[00:21:22] So I believe we're at 95% now, and then what happens is the state adjusts its rate accordingly. So if it's 90%, they'll do 8%. If it's 95%, they'll do 3%. So we're always in it for 2%. And that kind of goes back to the bridge project.

[00:21:40] You know, we don't want to be in a position where we're paying for it ourselves or all of it. You know, if we can get it into the FAA system, it's an eligible project, and they would pay for it. It's just, you know, we have so many projects that are already in there, the runway being the big one.

[00:21:56] We have a very full plate with the FAA, and these are not cheap projects. Unfortunately, you know, back in the day, 23 years ago when I first got here, you know, $5 million a year was what we could usually get from the FAA.

[00:22:14] That doesn't cover much. And what the FAA is having to do in many cases is do multi-year funding. So they might have to give you some of it in 26, some of it in 27. You don't do the construction until 28. I can see that's kind of where we're headed and the state's not going to be able to bring even though they stepped up to the plate they're not going to be able to get that kind of money you know when you're talking 20 million dollar projects they're not going to be able to come up with that kind of money thank you thank you mayor so going back to the control tower for a moment it says on

[00:22:53] the west side so is that the side where the existing tower is yes sir it's It's actually, the site that was actually picked is a little bit further south than the existing tower. And south means more to the outer border?

[00:23:08] Well, it's actually more to the west and to the south out towards the creek. North would be to the VRE. So it's actually kind of going west and south. Got you. Towards the sod form. Yeah, towards the sod form. That's a good way of saying it.

[00:23:25] And it's going from roughly, it's about 75 feet. It's going to 120 feet. What do you say in height? It'll be 120 feet at the cab level.

[00:23:40] And then with all the other stuff they stick on it, it'll be about 150 feet. And the cab is doubling and almost tripling in size. You got to remember that this tower was built in 63 at a different airport and then was taken down and brought to Manassas.

[00:24:01] And this tower, actually the base building is going to be about 7,000 square feet. Right now we have a double-wide trailer as a base building. The base building, the needs of the FAA for training, we still have such a big need for air traffic controllers.

[00:24:20] And what's unique about our tower is we're a training tower. So at any one point we might have 16 or 17 controllers up there or in the base building, not all of them are actually controlling the traffic. A lot of them are teaching other controllers, new ones coming through the system.

[00:24:37] It's kind of like their first job, and then they get checked off at our tower, and then they move on to a larger tower at some point. So we're the lowest level tower there is. But as we become a commercial airport, that training will not be taking place.

[00:24:53] We will continue. We're not even close to the type of volume that you would need to go to the next level. And then lastly, what do you do with an old tower one? It will be torn down. Torn down and just... I need one for this living room. Smaller one here, what have you.

[00:25:13] So it just gets dismantled and discarded? Correct. At this point, it has no practical use. There's no practical use. It's already living its second life. Yeah, that's true. There's a place down in Stanton where they got to die.

[00:25:30] I was going to say the same thing. What it was is a children's museum, and they took an old tower and they put it in there and put some stuff in there for the kids to. So they kind of had a, you know, that would be the only use I could see for the actual cab once it's stripped down because they'll take all the equipment off of it and send it somewhere else to be rehabbed or whatever.

[00:25:53] No chance of making it in a little airport bar or, you know, what have you there. I will look to the fine citizens. Very good. I was just curious what happened to you. Yeah, like I said, that's the only thing I've ever seen with another tower is, you know, I think the one at Dulles at the Hasey Center is similar to that where they just took another tower cab and put it.

[00:26:20] And that one's so small, it would probably be a pretty good one for something like that. If you had a children's museum, and I can't swear on the one that's at the one in Stanton, whether that was actually, they just built it, or whether or not it actually came out of a tower. It looks pretty real, so I don't know. Who knows?

[00:26:39] Ms. Ellis, question. Juan, you mentioned the fuel farm as some leakage now? Well, the containment area, and keep in mind, the containment area is bone dry until it rains, And then we go out and we look to see if there's any sheen or if there's any, you know, petroleum products actually in the containment area.

[00:27:02] And then we just open the oil water separator and it's released after we check to make sure there's nothing in there. So and I'm talking the leakages is like you could see a small bit of water, you know, because what happens is if we have a big storm, you know, that water goes up two or three inches inside there.

[00:27:25] And then, you know, it's at the seams, mainly. No petroleum leakage? No, no, no, no. Those, we're talking about the containment area, not the tanks themselves. Okay. No, those are inspected every day. Okay, good. Yeah, they're inspected every day, and also ProTech inspects them on our behalf.

[00:27:47] Okay, that's all I wanted to know. Somebody's checking those every day, along with the FBOs who have to check them and sump them and do their morning checks. We come right behind them. And this is a big requirement that even though we were already doing it, it is a requirement for Part 139.

[00:28:05] And it's interesting, the two FBOs are getting used to having somebody out there who really knows what they're looking for and have nailed them on a bunch of different stuff. So by the time we get to the certification process, they'll be looking really good because now they know what to look for.

[00:28:26] Thank you. We have no petroleum products. you know. Thank you. I was looking at a couple of things, and in my ask, the airport utility infrastructure improvements in the A117, H349, is those, and I know it's not a specific, but is those allocations enough? Because it's far in the future years, but within the changes that you're

[00:28:58] I'm just because I see, you know, like the usage will be different and the and, you know, the prices as they go now, you know, my concern, you know, that, you know, I'm not asking to change.

[00:29:20] I'm just asking, you know, is that something they will, is it more than before or is it something that, you know, you anticipated that's what will it be? As far as the cost of the different water and sewer improvements, electric improvements, this was information that we received from the utilities department.

[00:29:42] So, again, this is not really an airport project. I don't oversee this. so i would have to say that this is their best estimate right now until they actually see drawings you know actually showing where the you know uh where they propose putting the lines um but they did have a meeting that i'm aware of already and so that's kind of how they came up with these estimates uh so i can't tell you whether or not they're exact because frankly until they actually have drawings to look at they're not going to know the exact cost

[00:30:19] Yeah, and that was more, you know, like, you know, just to understand that it's far out anyway. It's going to come back many times, but I just want to, you know, address in that. Yeah, and it's, you know, I think the reason it was put out into the future, because we really, you know, as Chief Keene said, we were kind of waiting to see where we were at with the design of the building.

[00:30:43] And so now that we're getting close to that and we have a better feel for it, This will be one of those projects that we'll be moving forward sooner than later. Yeah. Thank you. I'm sorry.

[00:30:59] No, no, go ahead. I was going to say, and as always, as we get more drawings, better drawings, better cost estimates, if this project changes, we're going to be back in front of you updating you at that point as well, especially timelines change because we'll have to come back for a budget amendment as well.

[00:31:18] A couple more of those. Okay. All right. And again, you know, my worry is that I get too deep into it, but my concern to see on A1110, page 3.4, when you need this FY29 earlier, because, you know, it's talking about upgrades and whiting, and I do see, you know, the other projects, but I'm just, is that because of, you know, trying to allocate it on the right year because of funding, Which is not needed at this point.

[00:31:54] Again, it's all about the airport's program that we have established with the FAA. I meet with the FAA in the state once a year, and we sit down and we try to program the money where we think, well, they tell me where they think they can get it, and then essentially my job is to take what they tell me and I put it in here.

[00:32:13] So what the FAA has essentially told me is like, you know, we could probably come up with some design money in 27, But because the runway project's in there, yeah, if we had the ability to get $20 million from the FAA all at once, or $30 million, then this project is important and would be moved forward.

[00:32:37] But the runway project is more important than this project. But this is, you know, airlines want to see a 50-foot wide taxiway. Ours is at 40 feet. So we've done the preliminary work. work we know that it's going to be 10 5 feet on each side because there were some options we could put it 10 feet on the entire side then it changes the crown of the the runway so we've already done that analysis and so um this is one of those even this is more important honestly than the widening of the runway um you know because i can point to several airports in the country that are operating

[00:33:17] buying with airlines at 100 feet wide. Ideally, it should be 150 feet, and we're going to get there. But I have to prioritize based on what is the most important.

[00:33:34] And it's really important to get this widening done because 40 feet, they expect to see 50. The airports that I would point out to you that have 100, they have 50-foot wide taxiways.

[00:33:50] So, you know, that's one of the things that we were able to do with one of the airlines that was interested. We was able to show them, you know, how we could keep them at 50 feet, you know, coming off the runway. The vast majority of their taxiing could be at 50 feet.

[00:34:09] And where we couldn't get to 50 feet, we would do enhanced markings. So we're already thinking about how do we handle this situation before, you know, Like, instead of 6-inch center line, we go with 12. Instead of, you know, we don't have to have stripes on the edges.

[00:34:27] We would do in areas that are less than 50 feet, we would do the edge marking, you know. So there are things that we can do. We can set the speed, you know. Taxi speed is only 10 miles an hour or something like that to make sure that they don't run off the edge.

[00:34:43] So, but anyway, that's why this one's where it's at. If I had my druthers, I would love to see them both go in at the same time. But, you know, it really is a matter of working with the FAA and getting it programmed like anything else.

[00:34:59] Once it's programmed, you're pretty safe for about three years. Anything beyond three years is a shot in the dark, you know, actually, with the FAA. And, you know, thank you for leading to my last question. And I think everybody's, you know, whether it's personal matters or business matters and especially here, you know, about the impact of the changes, you know, some, you know, the funding, you know, how that is going to get there, how it's going to look like.

[00:35:30] I mean, I'm glad to hear that, you know, one of them, you know, it changed for better, but after the, you know, two years or anything that has already been somewhat approved, because I think that's what we're running with now, then how, you know, how you see or, you know, how can we see a change in the future?

[00:35:51] because that, you know, like getting all this money is part of, you know, why you have, you know, around the airport this way so successful. So that's why I'm, you know, I'm not saying, you know, like we all don't know where, you know, how is it going to be basically.

[00:36:09] But if it's there any, you know, any light or anything that you are thinking of when it comes to changes in the funding, and if it's just some of these are already approved, you know, that's fine. I just want to. We've been very fortunate. The airport has been able to do stuff ahead of time, knowing that we would get reimbursed.

[00:36:32] For example, we can start an environmental process. We can start a design effort. We can do those. Those are usually lower numbers, and we can afford to pay for those in our budget at 100% until we get reimbursed.

[00:36:50] Those things are eligible once you go to construction. So, you know, in order to get ahead and take advantage of timelines and funding, we do that, you know, as well. We'll push forward and do it on our own. Now, we take some risks.

[00:37:07] That's, you know, we're doing that with the tower. As you know, we've explained, you know, we're going for BIL funding, but we had to do all this other work ahead of time to get to a position to even have a chance.

[00:37:23] so my last thing will be more like a request or a comment uh we we do have the yard or the courtyard or the park or the little you know a family i don't know if that you know the site right below the tower i don't know if you know i know it's far now i'm just you know asking for the families you know that you know i i don't see a lot of people there but if it does change you know So hopefully that we can keep something that is educational or is, you know, something that people enjoy.

[00:37:58] We have the observation area right there at the base of the tower. And we'll make sure that we plan something so that we have something where the folks can come out and watch the airplanes. It's not well marked, but we do have a sign that says observation area.

[00:38:15] And I think we had one of our Eagle Scouts, you know, made the little airplanes and stuff. kids go out there. I occasionally see them there, but definitely keep that in mind. Questions? Comments? Okay.

[00:38:34] Mayor, I move. Move on? Move on. At each of your seats, it is a black and white printout, but we do have this presentation up on both TVs, because I think if you can see them in color, I think that makes a big difference in Avport's presentation.

[00:38:53] So we're going to move right into that, then we'll be able to take a Q&A at the conclusion of theirs. Okay, well, thank you very much for the opportunity. I want to be sensitive around time. I know these things are pretty well scripted, so do we have five, ten minutes?

[00:39:09] I don't have a lot of slides. It's going to go pretty quick. It's very interactive. Go until you can't go. You're talking to the wrong person. I love to talk, so no, thank you for the opportunity. My name is Pranav Trebetty. I'm the project executive on behalf of Avcorts for this project.

[00:39:25] I've been in aviation for 17 years now. I've been lucky enough. I worked for United Airlines for 12 years. And I was lucky enough to be part of some very big, super cool projects. But I have never been part of a project where you're building a commercial airport from the ground up.

[00:39:42] So this is super exciting. It's not easy work because otherwise it would have been done. And the hallmark of any successful P3 project is everybody working together. And we've been really lucky, Juan and his team, people at the city of Manassas, Prince William County, have great relationships.

[00:40:02] A lot of us have worked at big cities and big city AJs before, and let's just say they're sometimes not as amenable and quick to respond as everybody has been here. So we look forward to that spirit of partnership continuing. We're just going to give a quick project overview, kind of talk about where the project is at, show you some pretty pictures. These are preliminary renderings, but we have spent the better part of the last six months really thinking through what the first phase of the terminal building needs to look like. And there's parking lots as well. And, you know, Juan talked a lot

[00:40:39] about, kept looking to his left for all kinds of monies. And the truth of the matter is that any cost incurred at an airport, at a commercial airport, ends up being paid for by the airlines.

[00:40:55] Right. That's how the whole system is funded. Right. So when we think about a third 20, 30 million dollar bridge project being potentially subsidized up to 98 percent by the various different governments, federal and state, that is a big deal to the airlines who are looking to make sure that there is because one of the first things that they look at is how competitive is an airport to fly in and out of.

[00:41:20] right? So if we start piling on a ton of costs right from the get-go, it becomes difficult for them to make the case back at headquarters and say, hey, let's go fly here. Because they have, when you think of an airline, they have fixed number of planes. And their question is, where do we put this plane? Are we better off putting this plane in Manassas? Are we better off putting this plane in Airport ABC? Right? So to the extent that we build a good business case financially, operationally, commercially, passenger experience-wise, that's what's going to get them excited. I will tell you, while we're not ready to share any names, there's still a lot of discussions. There is a huge amount of interest in the airline community. They're looking

[00:42:00] to us to figure a bunch of things out. They have questions around bridge, around timing. I'm going to walk you guys through some of that as well. So we're all kind of at this kind of holding our breath stage where it's like, yes, we want to make some good announcements. We want to have, but we're finally, the starting gun is going off. So there's a lot of good work that's happened up until now. And I'm just going to walk you through some of the stuff that we've done and what's ahead of us. So at a very high level, there's kind of three big components to the project, right there

[00:42:37] in the bottom. I know it's not directionally south, but on the page south is the terminal and the associated apron area. Right to the north, the short-term parking lot, there's kind of four quadrants, right? One of them is being used today. The goal is to build all four of those quadrants out. That's going to give us roughly around 500 spaces. By the time we're done, it'll be probably closer to 515, 520. And then just across the street there, we have a remote parking lot that's going to have a little over 700 spaces as well. So we have a bunch of design efforts underway.

[00:43:10] The remote parking lot design is practically done. It's 100% done. We can't call it 100% until the permitting authorities say it's 100%, but from a design perspective, it's done. And the short-term parking lot and the terminal, those two projects are tied together because of the utilities that run together.

[00:43:29] So they have to be approached as a single project. I know there was a question around kind of utility and utility infrastructure. That is a big piece of what the architects are looking at, right? Like to make sure, because without sufficient infrastructure, utilities, nothing happens.

[00:43:46] And so they're looking at this. have we have subject matter experts who do nothing but this to make sure that we have enough water enough electricity not for today not for tomorrow the franchise agreement that we've signed is 40 years long right so we definitely don't want to be going in in 15 years and digging up and trying to trying to put new utility lines right so we can we can go to the go to the next page this is kind of a uh just a little blocky cartoon diagram is what we call this but there on the right is the in the blue kind of dashed box is the maintenance building, the Butler building that we call it, that Juan was referring to

[00:44:26] that will be taken out as part of this. The overall terminal building that you see here, it's going to be shaped as somewhat of a letter P as an homage to me and my name. That has nothing to do with it. I don't want that being in the paper. We expect to be able to open with around four positions here.

[00:44:47] But, you know, there's a little bit of a chicken and egg, right? So when you sit down and tell you, imagine you're having an, I'm not in these conversations yet, having a conversation with the airline, hey, you want to fly here? Yeah, sure, when are you going to be ready? Well, when do you want to fly? Well, when are you going to be ready? Well, can you show me the picture?

[00:45:04] Well, we need to know when you're going to come fly here, right? So this gets us to a very important threshold, right? So we say, okay, here's what's happening. And I say that to kind of set the stage for we're thinking about this as phase one, but there's a lot of kind of thought going into if truly the momentum is as high as we think it will be in the upcoming years, how do you quickly start creating, you see some of those positions over there, there's three positions which are light gray.

[00:45:33] They're light gray because we know that we can stand them up relatively quickly and what would need to happen in order for that to happen. So a lot of this work is underway to make sure that we get this first phase built, which is what you see there towards the right half of the page, but also what happens in beers 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, right?

[00:45:54] So this will be, you know, there's going to be a, we just met with the TSA a few weeks ago. We're saying, hey, can you give us a checkpoint that's large enough for four lanes, right? Because we've come across airports, and I think with the federal government, We all know that you've got to ask for a little bit more than you need on day one because they'll probably try to get you down a little bit.

[00:46:15] So we are thinking, I say that to, we are thinking big right from the get-go, right, to make sure that based on everything that we're hearing that this is going to be a really, really good project. So we'll have concessions. We're working through all of that piece now, support space for the airlines, and obviously the hold rooms, and we'll make sure that as we fill this out a little bit more, there will be more specific architectural diagrams that you'll see, as opposed to something that a six-year-old colored with some crayons, right?

[00:46:47] Mr. Ossian had a question. Is the plan to have the existing terminal that we have continue to exist once you build out your P? So let me answer that in two ways.

[00:47:04] So the existing, so we went through a lot of different design iterations to figure out, Do we integrate the terminal building in day one, build right next to it, but if we're doing that, how do we preserve the ability to move quickly to expand further down the road?

[00:47:20] And so the existing terminal building is definitely gonna be part of the plan. It's not gonna be part of phase one. We're thinking of it as phase 1.5. So imagine that you have, you know, a couple of years in, things are going gangbusters and another airline says, because this is how this typically goes, right?

[00:47:39] Airline comes in, one airline comes in to be kind of the first mover, and then they're looking, oh, this is kind of going pretty well. How do we get in on the action? Then those three positions, the thing that we would probably need the most is space for passengers in the hold room.

[00:47:54] So we think of this as phase 1.5 in between phases 1 and 2, where we start converting parts of that into passenger hold rooms with concessions, et cetera, to stand things up. So because of how these projects are thought out, No, it's, one, it's a moving target, right?

[00:48:13] Because you don't know exactly what you don't know. And number two, you want to be flexible. And number three, it's hard to solve every problem in phase one of a project, right? We can't come in going, we're going to solve all the problems that exist here and they're going to be all done in the next 15 months, right? No, you've got to make sure that you're knocking down the big pieces that the airlines want to go see that make sense from an infrastructure perspective, that make sense from a future growth perspective, and then come in, use that as a foundational piece to kind of keep building on top of.

[00:48:44] Thank you, Mayor. We can go to the next one. So, you know, we're geared as human beings to kind of whatever's been done is in the past, and let's not pay attention to it. But a lot of work has gone in over the last about 12 months to get us to this point.

[00:49:02] There's a huge amount of regulatory work that's underway. There's a huge amount of architectural drawing work that's underway. So first and foremost, and if you've heard these terms before, which I'm sure you have via Juan, but I'll just quickly go through it.

[00:49:18] So the Part 139 is the certificate that the airport needs to get commercial operations at the airport. Like I said, I've never been part of a process to get an airport to Part 139. So this is pretty exciting stuff, but it is a lot of work.

[00:49:33] There's a lot of things that need to be done. And that's in spite of the majority of this airport being run very close to kind of a commercial airport kind of threshold, right? But there's a lot of just bureaucratic work that needs to be done, regulatory pieces. You've got to create paperwork and manuals and, you know, convince the people that you know what you're doing.

[00:49:52] So, you know, and Juan and his team have done a great job with this. And we're working really well together on some of this stuff as well. We needed to move relatively quickly on some signage. The funding process was going to take potentially a little bit longer than we would have wanted. So Avport stepped in and paid about $120,000, $530,000 to kind of keep the process moving along.

[00:50:13] Because one looked to his left and said, is Avport going to pay for this? And we said, yeah, sure. I love your left. I said, I'm going to wait for the... Next time I'm going to sit over there. Stay to the left. I learned that just now I tell him that it's going to take too long for the grant funding to come in.

[00:50:29] Yeah, I was reminded by my clients slash bosses that we don't have a limitless pocket. So we're hoping, you know, and Council Member Vasquez Luna, you referred to this. You know, it's difficult to figure out at the federal agency level.

[00:50:48] Obviously, there's numerous challenges, right? What we're focused on right now is we need to do the things that we can do, right? We can't go in, but we're hoping the Part 139 is done somewhere in the second quarter. Same thing on our environmental assessment, to just give you guys a sense.

[00:51:07] Environmental assessment, basically looking at the environmental impact of every project that is potentially going to happen at the airport to support commercial operations, not just in the next five years, but in the next 10, 15, 20 years. So it's this massive document. we submitted that into FAA on November 19th.

[00:51:26] They told us they will have comments back to us in no more than 30 days. Then they said, no, we'll definitely have it to you by the end of January. We were on a call. We have biweekly calls with the working team at the FAA. On January 23rd, they told us, stop asking us questions.

[00:51:44] You will have the comments on January 31st. We told you. At that point, you can look at it. Needless to say, we don't have any comments yet, right? And now it's just, you know, everybody's, so we have met with the DOT, we have lobbyists who are working to figure out where these comments are.

[00:52:00] We feel confident that we're going to shake this loose. If somebody held a gun to my head, can I say tomorrow? No, I can't. But can I say that this is going to move forward? Yes. Because I think the merits of the project are just too self-explanatory for somebody, particularly given that it's literally in the government's backyard, to ignore, right?

[00:52:18] So we are, we're moving quickly on those fronts. on the design front which we actually do have complete control over we are hoping that we'll have all the construction documents done by the end of q2 as well we cannot initiate construction until we get these approvals from the faa right so we are that's why you see the phase one construction starting in july 2025 is how we think this is going to play out as soon as we get that we can't even stick a shovel into the ground until we have those approvals in our hands all the designs should be done like I said the remote parking lot design is done terminal and

[00:52:57] short-term parking lot 30 design is going to be done by the end of this month so basically in the next 10 days and then we'll be at 60 by the end of May so we're moving extremely quickly on this and the goal is to have commercial operations here in the first quarter of 2026 right there's a there's a lot of a lot of things that we're juggling right now but we're keeping uh we're we are keeping everybody clued in to everything that's happening at the airport design regulatory the bridge the whole nine yards so um we've we are super excited about about where we're moving and how quickly

[00:53:34] we're moving but you know there's every project of this magnitude and it's never about you know it needs to be a billion dollars for it to be complex right complexity is not in the dollar amounts a lot of times those are easier because everything's already done and ready you just go in and start digging start building um there will be times where we need to kind of come up with creative ideas much like we did and as much as we're joking about at ports you know being able to pay for stuff at ports is also you know owned by somebody who is looking to make money as well and so everybody needs to be judicious so as we get to these points and forks in the road where

[00:54:10] what is the best avenue here we could potentially be back here having a conversation to figure out what is the best path forward like how do we how do we keep maintaining this momentum that we have So, yeah, so I think if there's any date that we would love to leave you guys with here today, it's first quarter of 26.

[00:54:27] That's what we're shooting for. That's what we want to get done. If anybody knows, anybody at the FAA, if your neighbor works there, we will take anybody's help at this point. And I say that only somewhat facetiously because it's literally all hands on deck.

[00:54:45] We are calling everybody and their friend to see. personally went with with jorge roberts our ceo the airport ceo to the dot offices which were completely empty with the exception of the two people we're meeting with um to uh to seek help and everybody as you can imagine is trying to figure out you know their own personal things like am i even working here tomorrow right type of thing so there's there's a lot there's a lot of uncertainty so we're we're sensitive to that but our but our lobbyists also feel pretty good about the fact that they have strong cases to be made. And that is just a question of getting to the

[00:55:19] right person. For example, right now, they believe that the comments from the regional office to our environmental assessment are sitting on somebody's desk. We are trying to literally figure out who that person is so that somebody can go to that person and say, can you just give us the comments?

[00:55:39] We are not asking you to give us the final approval. We are just saying, tell us what you want us to go fix and edit so we can start addressing those things to get this back to you again for your review i'll share with you i didn't even tell you just tell you this i was at a meeting on monday evening with your um airport commission chairman rod hall who worked in the aviation industry himself and he came to me and said just so you know i'm also calling all of my people at faa and all these other people i mean this is rod on his own turn this into an all hands

[00:56:14] on deck sort of effort just because so you're being well represented in that regard thanks so here's some uh here are some uh renderings uh early early renderings the plants uh and the front look remarkably realistic um so this just gives you a sense as you as you're kind of looking at that the building further down and the kind of the brick is obviously the existing terminal building the idea is to kind of seamlessly integrate it into it but also provide, because that building is, when I first walked into it, I was like, this is a very cool building.

[00:56:54] Circa 1995, which once upon a time used to be two years ago, but apparently now is 30 years ago. It's beautiful. So we want to maintain that historical aspect, but also make sure that passengers who travel today are, you know, exposed to the kind of amenities and looks and modern designs that they look forward to.

[00:57:13] So we have just a few different pictures. You can go to the next one. This is a kind of preliminary look at what we expect the ticket lobby to look like. And bear in mind, you know, I showed you kind of what I called the cartoon. I don't call it the cartoon diagram. That's generally what the architects call it because it's not final, right?

[00:57:30] Because you're moving things around. You're just working within a large box and saying what are the things, where are all the pieces, what do we need to do? As we bring the different stakeholders in, like the TSA, like the airlines, some of this will move around. But broadly speaking, this is kind of the, this is what you'll see in terms of the height, in terms of the light, in terms of just the general airiness.

[00:57:55] This is what we are aspiring to. We have one question. Yes, sorry. It's really how it looks like, in my black and white copy, it looks like, what do you call it, like those trucks, the pool stuff, like a truck, the one you need a serial driver, you know, serial license.

[00:58:14] Yeah, it looks like a trailer, you know, my black and white. So is this like what it's going to look like? Yeah, no, this is not, yeah, I mean, the short answer is no. This is much, these are significantly taller than trailers.

[00:58:33] This is a pre-engineered metal building, but you're going to have a lot of glass, as you can see there. A lot of glazing, as it's called in the technical terms. So, no, it's not, it's not, it's not a trailer. I know it's not a trailer. It looked like a trailer. The only reason why I'm saying is because I'm sure the investment they made when this was done.

[00:58:54] And I'm not expecting the same, but I don't know. I wait for the comments, but especially in the black and white, it looks worse. I completely hear you on this, right? And the question is always one of what I may like brick from circa 1995.

[00:59:19] Anybody who flies today is not used to going into a building like that. You see any new airport terminal that's constructed. You're going to see a lot of glass, a lot of modern kind of materials in there. But, you know, I mean, you have two airports in this area, both IED and DCA.

[00:59:35] We've done a wonderful job of keeping kind of the integrity of the architectural masterpieces that they had. Yet, you've got to keep expanding, right? And do you expand given what was built so many years ago and try to use that as your anchor? Or do you say, well, now it's 2000, or it's 2025, and what do we do now for the next, because we're building for the next 30, 40 years.

[00:59:58] These are preliminary renderings. These will change. And as we get more sense, generally, these kind of renderings you don't see until you have at least 30% to 40% design. We asked our architects to produce something just so that people start getting a feel for what this might look like, right?

[01:00:14] But there's a lot of things to be figured out. I mean, we don't know what the-- we are nowhere near the point of saying, we want the outside to be gray for example right that's that's not a decision that is anywhere on the horizon at this point but just to give a sense around glass how it's going to look what the approach is going to look like um and how it's going to feel as you drive through uh the terminal complex thank you so yeah i i mean i i in the color i do see the uh glass on the side and a little bit on the on the other side uh but being sensitive to the city like we have worked really

[01:00:53] hard investing in trying to take out the eyesores and you know that continues to be a conversation and how this council has invested making a difference so these terminal regardless of which way you spend and when you spend it's gonna make an impact in the city so uh you know i just you know i when it comes to business i don't have my personal feelings but i do understand that i of one in a few years to become a nice or instead of something that the city because people come and

[01:01:31] go you know i i fly i might never fly again to one airport it's just a layover you know like just to give you an example but the people that live here you know that's something that you know either they're gonna be proud they are not and because of our history that's why i wanted to make sure you know that i gave you the feelings about how it looks like i you know i did see the glass my other question for staff it will be i hope the color copies email because i can't make out anything on the on the um third page i think it was like this one uh i could never find it you

[01:02:09] know p or i i guess i don't understand it but it's just harder um so you know for this i would like the color copy but yeah uh it is not about how it looks or how it's gonna finish you know i you know my ask is you know here in old town we even have bigger roles and you know it is different But it's just that I feel at this point, you know, as a council member for me, it will be important that it looks, you know, it looks related.

[01:02:40] And, you know, I'm not saying no modern, but I'm just giving you my first thought. I understand. And we in this body try to be a lot more professionals than the comments that you might get from residents when they feel like, you know, let me see it.

[01:02:57] And, you know, I'm sorry for bringing this, but, you know, I can't stay quiet. That's why I'm here. She's not wrong, Mayor and Council Member. We immediately recognize that the black and white copies didn't do it justice. That's the reason we wanted to get it up on the screen so you could get a better view.

[01:03:17] So related to that, thank you, Mayor, is probably when you get to that point, Because I should preface this, in addition to be a welder of airplanes, I'm also a design consultant and architect and all those other things along the way.

[01:03:34] But following up on Sonia's comments here, it got me thinking several things. One is, there's a look about Manassas, and I think she is correct that there will be a certain audience that will be flying out of here that resides in the area and so forth.

[01:03:53] So when you get to the point of designing and so forth, it probably would be helpful to ride around and look at some of our public buildings for that look here. Not just this building, but others to get an idea, particularly buildings that are new. We're building a new elementary school and take a look once that is constructed and see what those kinds of things are to get an idea.

[01:04:16] Because with the new elementary school, it's facing the same sorts of things of glass and light and using modern energy efficient materials. And yet, obviously trying to fit into what kind of the general architecture is of the city here on that regard.

[01:04:38] Because Manassas was established as a railroad town, it got me thinking. Yesterday I had the occasion to be at the Science Museum of Virginia, which used to be the Broad Street Station in Richmond, Virginia there. So a big building, you know, built, bring trains in and so forth.

[01:04:57] And what the Science Museum had done is retained a lot of these seats. You know, we go to an airline and they have these black, you know, and you sit there, but you put your luggage in the seat next to you so you don't sit next to somebody.

[01:05:12] You know, all that sort of stuff. And it's somewhat industrial and what have you. And what the museum had retained was back in the railroad, the height of railroads, there was these oblong seats that were smooth. They sit. You had a place to put the luggage up behind you.

[01:05:28] But they were oval, but a long oval. And you sat that way. And when you go, if you would go to the next frame, it sort of reminded me of this. You know, there's the person sitting on something that's really designed for plants.

[01:05:45] That says that, and granted, I know it's for illustration purposes, but when you're getting to look for places, maybe there's a way to make those kinds of connections, railroad, you know, blah, blah, blah. I just put that there because, again, right, Mark?

[01:06:01] This is the way we do it. I told you I was a design consultant as well along the way. And I know we're getting into a lot more stuff, but these are the sorts of things because we're going to live with this building for a while. Yes, yes, we all intend to, and what I'll say is points extremely well taken, right?

[01:06:20] I live in Chicago. My opinion may be biased, but I do believe that no city on the planet has done a better job of integrating continually modern architecture with Art Deco, with Neo-Gothic, and yet the skyline looks just as beautiful every as each year goes by as new things come up, right?

[01:06:38] So we have, our architect is SOM, one of the world's most foremost architects, who designed the Sears Tower, which I worked out of for about eight, nine years. So they are obviously, you know, as we were to bring all the right stakeholders in here to know their expertise internally, we will take, we'll definitely take your advice.

[01:07:02] We do want to make sure this is a point of civic pride, right? I mean, that's why I love working in this space. Airports are legacy projects. I've had an opportunity to be part of many things where you're signing a beam and it goes up in the roof and, you know, nobody's going to see it, but I can drive by 30 years from now in Houston and go, you know, I signed a beam that's still up there, right?

[01:07:24] So these are absolutely items of civic pride, and it's very important that we kind of check that box as well. Now, you know, can you make all the people happy all the time? Probably not, but can you make sure that we're kind of in, and I like the idea of kind of the echo of some of the Manassas kind of landmarks, if you will, and that's a point that's well taken and uh i made it i made a note if there's any other items aside from the elementary school that that maybe come to mind we'll make sure that our architects uh come and take a look at that because unlike unlike you i am not a designer or an architect i'm just i'm just here for my

[01:08:00] for my nationally good looks apparently yeah i would suggest this and pranav doesn't have quite You know, the detail that we haven't talked about, right? The city has a, you know, this city probably has the best architectural review board anywhere.

[01:08:20] I've worked with them throughout Northern Virginia, at least. I think it would be very easy for us to coordinate some interface between our architect and your ARB. I mean, obviously, the most important thing about this building is the functionality. That's the most important thing. But I don't think it would be difficult at all to give the professionals that you have within the community an opportunity to work with them on the you know things like the facades and some design issues that i think would address this i mean you've got the infrastructure in place i was wondering if they were gonna have a crack at this honestly well at least yeah we can we can

[01:08:57] work with that pretty easily actually councilman uh bascos luna i just is does that i guess the council the existing terminal building is unique and is the thought that there needs to be more features of that into this building you don't have a problem with the existing terminal building correct no i think i am so proud of what it was done and even though it was many years ago i understand one side has not that much lighting but the other side when you look at the you know

[01:09:30] looking at the um at the airplanes there you know it's beautiful so my issue if it was you know the ending even though I know the glass is pretty and I know that it will be greatly appreciated I just the feeling you know I'm worried that if I have this feeling and I'm trying to you know I want to say you know trying to be as say it as professional as possible but out there when people talk about this they don't want to try to be you know try to filter the feelings so

[01:10:06] My ask, I think his feedback was even farther and greater. My ask is that it does flow, but the way it looked in the black and white, it was even more difficult to swallow, to imagine than that, because it didn't feel like manassas.

[01:10:27] I mean, it didn't feel like a said weight or, you know, I don't want to call it a vision, but, you know. Because it's going to be phased, that's the other thing, too, is Pranav talked about, you know, you have phase one, 1.5, which would start incorporating into the existing building.

[01:10:48] And then you're going to have probably a phase two, which takes it out north into that 30,000 square foot area. Because what we're talking about is that space that he showed on that one slide, that's close to 30,000 square feet. And then you take the terminal building, that's another almost 20,000 square feet.

[01:11:07] But then there's another 30,000 square feet north of that. So you could end up with a terminal building that's 80,000 square feet in the future. As things grow and, you know, it becomes more popular or whatever.

[01:11:23] So I think the challenge is going to be how do you go to the next step and incorporate, you know, and keep it going to make it look, you know. So you have to have that. I think what people are trying to say is you have to have that theme in Phase 1 because you're going to have to kind of carry it on throughout the entire process.

[01:11:45] And that point is extremely well taken, right? And we will make sure we work with the Architectural Review Board and make sure that the right elements can be looked at by people who are way better at this than somebody like me, right? So because as the architects kind of think about it, right, there are so many stakeholders when you think about an airport building.

[01:12:07] But the most important stakeholder is the passenger that's going to fly through it, right? And the modern passenger has a certain expectation of the kind of infrastructure they expect when they walk through a 21st century airport, right? And that is where kind of the discussion starts for architects, right?

[01:12:24] And then there are thematic looks around looks and facade and that kind of thing that we can definitely figure out how do we, is there a way to kind of build that in? And I'm sure that there's some ideas that can be potentially brought in and addressed. We should talk about this in the call.

[01:12:39] What's that? We'll talk about this in the call. Okay. Ms. Ellison and Ashley. I'm the council liaison for the architectural review board. And we do have an architect on there, Sean Porter, who has done a lot of work in the city to restore historic buildings and also make them modern.

[01:13:00] So he would be a great person to collaborate with. Also, actually I'm glad Sonia brought that up because I didn't even notice that until you brought that up. I think it's just making it complimentary to the existing building that's there.

[01:13:18] Because we do love that building, the terminal. So I don't think it's going to be hard to bring some breakovers or whatever. We also have a group in the City of Veterans, the Freedom Museum, that were originally in this terminal.

[01:13:34] They have a lot of stuff that's related to aviation. That would be pretty cool to kind of look at because this building is kind of a pre-engineered metal building. So it has, you know, you can put glass and you can do a lot of different things.

[01:13:53] I don't know if you can, but trying to bring those kind of elements on the inside, which I know a lot of airports have done successfully, is San Francisco does a wonderful job of reminding people of San Francisco through thematically, both inside, through museum pieces, everything, right?

[01:14:10] So absolutely, I think that's a great idea. And they have warehouses of stuff. Thank you. You know, not to beat a dead horse, but just piggybacking off of what Councilwoman Vasquez Luna said, It just looks very warehouse-y, but I don't think it necessarily needs to be brick, but just that it has more of a distinct feel.

[01:14:30] If you go to Denver and the airport looks like the Rocky Mountains, like you see the silhouette of Dulles and you know it's Dulles without any color or anything to the photo. So just something that's a little more characteristic, a little less warehouse-y. No, no, no. Points are well taken.

[01:14:52] I think to add our motto, I don't know how to say it. I mean, we were built because, you know, of the trains and it's so important, which he already brought up. But we are, you know, we call it a, you know, historic heart, modern beat.

[01:15:09] And we're really proud that we are, you know, like we are just that, you know, we celebrate the arts every, you know, almost everywhere. We are a very unique place. So that, you know, and, you know, I'm not saying it has to look like the other one, no at all.

[01:15:26] But I just want to make sure that when this is getting finalized, that it is a manassas. I mean, regardless of where you go, like, you don't fly to places. You know, at least for me, some places I don't go, I don't do layovers because of the weather.

[01:15:43] But you don't, you know, you do the prizes. You do all the things, and how long you're going to wait for the layover. So, you know, that is, you know, I don't want to add too much. But, yes, you know, just like we turned 150, so any way that we can, you know, make, you know, have an assets within the corporate and, you know, within, you know, your business.

[01:16:06] And, you know, that might be more exciting. The beauty of the timing of this is that we are just getting to 30% design, right? Now, the general box is the box, right, because we do need to make sure that, you know, we are meeting kind of airline budgetary requirements.

[01:16:22] But this is perfect timing to kind of start seeking out that input. And, you know, then we'll get a bunch of input, and then we'll see, and we'll come back with some ideas in terms of what's feasible and what makes sense. And, you know, I think all the points are extremely well taken. And I think, you know, obviously these renderings were not meant to generally, we did not do that.

[01:16:41] The next set of renderings, we will make sure that we have some. So that might, you know, depending on how much time that takes us to kind of come back with that. But I really do like the idea, particularly around having echoes of Manassas in general and potentially a warehouse full of stuff, bringing the right elements in to as soon as somebody comes inside, they know that they're in Manassas, right?

[01:17:04] Or next time they're there, they're like, yeah, this is Manassas. This is cool. We have an awesome ARB board, and they are more in charge of what's... They don't have jurisdiction, if you want to use that word, out there at the airport. But like Ms. Ellis said, Mr. Porter, Ms. Chong, would be a great person to just kind of narrow it down and have him, not that entire board, but, you know, we think that would be a really good thing to do.

[01:17:32] Yeah, just because they pretty much take care of our historic downtown, and they're the HOA for down here. HOA. That's a little scary, but we just want to make sure we don't get all of them. We get to go tell them what to do. And so we want to make sure that that's sort of contained, too.

[01:17:50] But I think he's very in tune in those, so I think that would be really good. Sounds good. No, I'll really get feedback. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. You don't want to show any more, Dave. Just keep saying. We're going to throw up any numbers.

[01:18:07] No more hurts. But trust me, you guys are very nice compared to some other Air Force I've sat in front of. Again, this is, you know, and the only other thing, you know, taking all the conversation we've had, as we show you this, this is meant to be more evocative of what it potentially can be, right?

[01:18:29] This is not meant to be the end-all, be-all. Are these kind of the design elements that you see in a lot of modern airports? Yes, right? You see a lot of light. You see now this in Portland Airport, for example, in their new terminal, is proud that they did the majority of it with all wood, right?

[01:18:44] So, and if you look at the picture, and it's gorgeous, right? They spend a lot of money doing that, and I don't think that airlines can bear that right now. So these are meant to be like, okay, this is what the modern passenger experience looks like.

[01:19:00] But as we evolve this further, we will get back in front of the HOA, Madam Mayor, and see what they have to say. And I think we basically kind of talked through most of these. But a lot's going to happen in the next 60, 90 days.

[01:19:17] And we're certainly hopeful that Juan can pull some strings. Since he keeps looking to me for the checks, I'll keep looking to him to find people with FAA contacts to help us escort this along. So I'm going to pick up on the check comment.

[01:19:34] So one of the questions that is before you and we wanted to hear from you, one of Juan's asks were those positions. And after hearing your presentation and the uncertainty, because that's really, I'm going to tell you, that's what I heard. And that's the reason we made the decision not to put those positions in the budget that you would be writing the check for.

[01:19:56] Is it your guidance to us to hold off on those until we get better timelines? We can always come back and do a budget amendment, whenever that is. That could be August, September, and bring those positions in once you get more information and a better timeline, or you're like, nope, let's start them in July and be done with it.

[01:20:19] Look, let me start at a slightly higher level. We support the positions, right, the positions that are being hired for. As far as kind of the timing of the cycle of how long it takes to bring people on board, that's something I'll defer to Juan and his team on in terms of what the right timing is.

[01:20:39] We support it. There's going to be, you know, we're going from a GA airport to a commercial airport, so it's going to require the right resources to run it, and we have signed up for those requirements. So from a timing perspective, I don't know, if we come back with a supplemental request, how quickly will that move, and does that fit in with when you need the people on the ground or not?

[01:21:00] That's something we're happy to support either way. My only concern with waiting is that we need to train these people. The Part 139 requirements for getting people up to speed. The last time we had to hire an ops person took about three and a half months to get somebody on board, and then it takes another.

[01:21:23] If they're already trained, like say we lucked out and got somebody from Dulles, they have to be familiar with our airport, and they have to go through all of the training, whether it's checked out, can they communicate, and all this other good stuff.

[01:21:39] So if you get somebody right out of school, you're talking minimum six months. It might take them three months just to be able to talk to the tower and get around safely before we can check them out. So we've had a maintenance position that has been open since May of last year that we haven't been able to fill.

[01:21:56] So if that's indicative of we need more maintenance staff because we have to fix stuff quickly because airlines aren't going to wait for us. If something goes out, we have to take care of it. So I only ask that it gets funded in this budget so that we can start the process of hiring somebody and get them on board and get them trained up and be ready to get started.

[01:22:24] If we wait until September, October, we risk not. And one of the key things is we've got to go seven days a week. We only do five days a week right now, and we've only asked for two ops people, and that's just enough. That means that if somebody gets sick, Mary takes over and has to run that position because we just won't have enough.

[01:22:49] But we're only asking for the bare minimum to get started because we don't want to overdo this thing because I don't want to have more people than I necessarily need, especially starting off. But so that would be my only ask of council is that we do go ahead and budget for it in this budget so that I can at least hire people and have a chance to get them trained up.

[01:23:13] Yeah, and backing off of our timeline, I mean, we are shooting for that first quarter opening, right? So that for us is, you know, to the extent of all the things that we're controlling. So if we've had a maintenance position open for well over a year, to me that means that we do need to start getting these positions approved right away so that we can start spooling up to get people on board as quickly as we can.

[01:23:39] So we're not scrambling in first quarter of 2026 trying to get people into the airport. Sorry, go ahead and finish. So what I'm going to say, what we've heard is positive.

[01:23:57] I stood before you and told you no new positions would be approved in this budget unless we had offset funding. That's how the other positions were. We're hearing that with this. So staff will make the appropriate adjustments based upon what we hear and bring it back before you as we finalize this budget, which we have many things to finalize in this budget over the next month and many more conversations.

[01:24:25] Thank you, Mayor. So, how much are you requesting for this airport operations officer, and how much for the airport? Total amount is $360,000 for the three positions. For three or two?

[01:24:41] For three total positions, $360,000. And how does that break down? $270,000 for the two airport operations officers and $90,000 for the airport maintenance workers.

[01:25:02] Wouldn't that be more like six months, like three months, if they open in a quarter and we still don't know when? Wouldn't that be budget for six months instead of... The money I just gave you, those figures, is for the entire year? Yeah, but when I see it, you know, I'm not comfortable with 12 months.

[01:25:23] That's what I'm saying. Because even if you were, like, I understand the posting and everything, that will take time, but you still will know when to allocate it, and it's, I don't know, maybe when I see it, but I think 12 months is too much.

[01:25:42] I have a question. Are we allowed to, once the budget's approved by council, are we allowed to start advertising? Typically, yes. Yeah, so we could start, as soon as in May the budget is approved, we'll start advertising in the hopes that we'll have somebody come in and interview and then, you know, start soon after July 1st.

[01:26:05] but wouldn't that be nine months of training if the end? You're correct. That's the reason we didn't recommend approval. Our mindset was where you were at. Let's wait until later. I don't know, you know, I'm just giving my opinion out of six.

[01:26:27] So, you know, to me, it's a lot, and especially if it takes you a long time to find someone, you know, I still don't feel like you have the need for the funding of 12 months. Remember, AdPorts will be paying for it.

[01:26:43] I understand, but as it comes to approval, I still want to do a due diligence. We have everything in front of us. Again, I said, I don't know if it's a poor when we see it.

[01:26:59] For me, I would like to see how it looks like for nine months or six months. I hope it's not too much work. six months and nine months she's asking um yeah i just i appreciate that i i just think if it's this hard finding qualified people um you better start now because the last thing we do not want we do not want to have have happened is airport say we're ready to fly in planes and we ain't got

[01:27:38] the people um and the other thing is just from an organizational perspective let's just say this We hire a person in September. They're theoretically fully trained by January 1 and have their 139 certifications and stuff, which is probably reasonable.

[01:28:02] And afterwards, he's ready to start operations in March, three months later. That gives Juan three times, basically three months, to build his team and integrate everything because he's all got to go right day one.

[01:28:21] What I think will happen is this will be one of the line items for markup. Make sure it's on there. Thank you.

[01:28:39] So AvPorts has agreed to pay, and I'm assuming the first year, salary, meaning the beginning here. But subsequent years, this will become part of the city's budget.

[01:28:57] Is that correct, personnel costs? Yes, sir. As the franchise is written, AvPorts will, if we run a deficit, they will pick up that deficit for five years once we get our certification.

[01:29:15] Beyond that, we plan on paying for the positions through landing fees, which we do not collect right now. And not to get too into the weeds with the negotiating parts with airlines, when airlines, you know, we want them to come in is with the lowest cost per airplane passenger as we can get.

[01:29:36] And part of the reason that Avport's willing to pay these monies up front, because if I go and say, well, guess what? The landing fees are going to be $6 per 1,000 pounds of gross, you know, weight. They're going to have a fit going, are you kidding?

[01:29:53] You know, why are you guys charging all that? So they'd rather pay for our deficit until, you know, We get to the point where we get good established service. The airlines are up and running, and then, you know, like everything else, they want to pay forever, but we'll be able to cover that cost with our landing fees.

[01:30:15] Because landing fees, we can charge any operational cost to include employees. But again, you know, you could probably speak more about this than I can on the strategies of dealing with airlines. But, you know, they're going to want to come in and pay very little at the very beginning.

[01:30:32] Especially startup. You have to start up at a brand new, even large airports have big funds to attract airlines, right? And they help take care of a year or two years worth of landing fees as part of their air service development.

[01:30:52] So there will be an expectation with airlines coming in because they're also negotiating. And real estate costs, believe it or not, are third, the third highest expense on an airline's income statement after salaries and fuel is real estate costs.

[01:31:08] So this is a big, these are big numbers for airlines. I mean, any one given airport, you go, well, it's only, you know, it's only a million dollars. You multiply by the 300 airports that they fly to, some of them being mega cities. When I used to work at United, the budget that I handled was $1.2 billion of landing fees and rents, right?

[01:31:28] So these numbers are massive numbers. So airlines are people who work in airport affairs, which is what I used to do. That's one of their charters is to make sure that that number is worked down as low as they can possibly be. And to Juan's point, if you start leading with some numbers that are unpalatable to them, that conversation is dead, right?

[01:31:47] And that's why it's so important to balance the economics with everything because if the economics don't work, then they don't come. And getting them here is obviously the number one objective, right? And the other thing we haven't mentioned is, you know, AdFords hasn't started paying the full or any rent right now because we have to get our operating certificate.

[01:32:13] But once they start paying what's in the existing franchise, the airport will be getting $672,143.16 in rent. So, again, we will be able to support these positions in the future, but AFWARTS is committed, you know, at least for the first five years.

[01:32:41] And, you know, depending on how the airlines are doing and what we're charging them, again, I can't go out, I can't be a good partner of AFWARTS and go say, okay, we're going to charge, despite what you say, we're going to cover all this cost and have these, you know, outrageous landing fees.

[01:32:59] So we're going to have to be a team player, set some reasonable fees, not collect all the money that we could possibly collect technically, and then within a five-year period, you know, hopefully that will be ratcheted up a little bit.

[01:33:16] And if you look at airports that only have, like, one airline, you know, their landing fees are so low because they're trying to attract, you know. And in some cases, you know, they're not getting all of their money back.

[01:33:32] You know, they're having to get it through parking fees and other stuff. But all airfield costs are eligible to be put back into landing fees. And at some point, we will see a decent amount of landing fees, and we'll be able to cover these costs.

[01:33:49] I think it's, you know, understanding what they're going to be up against, you know, but we need the personnel. We can't, you know, if we don't get it, we've got to get them sooner than later, I guess is what I'm saying. Thank you. Well, no, thank you.

[01:34:05] I support considerably now. I'd be much more comfortable knowing he has time to get the personnel out. As important, as more importantly, he has to get them properly trained and not have situations similar to a restaurant opening and cold starts and all that.

[01:34:24] He needs to have basically experienced small-eat people when it opens. And the only experience he'll have is through the training. So I'm much more comfortable with him having a better picture of what staff is on. Mayor, that's your presentation tonight.

[01:34:49] It was focused on the airports, which is a non-tax-supported fund. We're always ready to stand by. We've had a plane crash, so we know who will not be hired. There's one applicant.

[01:35:09] We're ready to stand by and answer any questions, or if you want to give us any guidance of things you want in the future that we may need to start working on more for all of us. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for coming.

[01:35:26] Very insightful. He missed a good time. We missed him. I will let him know. I'm sure he will be glad to be missed. Do you have council members in the cover or not?

[01:35:45] We can just be a utility. Monday night will be our utility rate presentation. Wednesday night will be your joint meeting with the schools. More like a conversation with you and our clerk.

[01:36:06] I noticed, you know, it's coming up in a couple of weeks. The case is no later than April 8th. Can we make sure that everybody knows in the boards? I know that we know always the staff signed to the board convey this, I don't know, the other part when it comes to the, what do you call it?

[01:36:35] The volunteer? The appointments of those who get something. Oh, yeah. The nomination? I don't know if there was any nominations or when is the deadline, but looking at this one, it just works. There are some boards that they meet once every two months.

[01:36:52] I just want to make sure that everybody has an opportunity. Yeah. And Christina has sent out reminders, especially to those advisory groups that hadn't received any nomination yet. So I think just as recent as last week. These were mailed out to every volunteer.

[01:37:11] Yeah. That is last week. Very nice. Thank you. Anything else? - We are done, thank you everybody. - Thank you very much. - Thanks, nice meeting everybody.

[01:37:26] - Likewise.

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