Coraggio Consulting
Manassas City Council 11/17/2025

Date: Monday, November 17, 2025
Place: Manassas City Council, Virginia
Length: 2h 33m (video)
Official meeting video (Wistia / RegionalWebTV): https://fast.wistia.net/embed/iframe/rsqdahk3oe

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-17. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:04] Alice here council member of Sina here council member Smith here council member Vasquez Luna council member Hudson here McCormish present okay thank you very much for that we have quite a bit of items on the agenda that we look to get through fairly quickly tonight thank you all for being here um the first item we have on the agenda is discussion item item 1.1 the future of downtown mobility chloe matt i'll kick it off real quick your honor members of council so we're joined by a number of our partners from PRTC and VRA this evening.

[00:00:38] What we're presenting to you this evening is really the culmination of a lot of planning studies that have been occurring over the last really two plus years, talking about how the future of mobility downtown might look. So Chloe is going to take you through how we got here. PRTC is going to discuss some of our options for buses.

[00:00:56] VRA is going to discuss some of the platform expansion projects that are in the works. And then we're going to come back to council for some guidance on both projects. again this is a long-term planning project so this is not something that's happening in the next year or two but this is setting the stage for the next five to ten years in the downtown so with that i'm going to let chloe take it away um there's quite a bit of slides so we'll try to move through this stuff fairly quickly and get to the kind of the end so we can get some guidance and discussion from council thank you chloe so why a mobility hub um they've been a lot of moving parts among regional transportation agencies in the last few years with vre um moving forward with the

[00:01:35] the Manassas station platform extension project, the adoption of the 2050 system plan to transition from a commuter rail to a passenger rail. The recent purchase of the Manassas line by VPRA to help with the ability of passenger and commuter rail service, on track and VRE.

[00:01:55] NVTA just adopted the bus rapid transit action plan recommending about 28 routes through Northern Virginia and three in the city. Avniaride, in 2021, relocated their hub from the Manasseh small to the courthouse area on Mosby Street, which is half in the county, half in the city, next to the courthouse.

[00:02:23] And then there's also DMV Moves, an initiative to create a roadmap for world-class transit network. So a lot in terms of transit, regionally. So a little bit of background regarding this particular project.

[00:02:38] It has different elements. One of the elements is a relocation of the Omniroid hub closer to downtown and the Amtrak station, VRE station, to integrate diverse mobile option, including the planned VRE platform service, but also different type of option, micro-mobility, car sharing, pickup drop-off for taxis, autonomous vehicle, or TNCs, and then the opportunity to transform this exiting parking lot into a public space.

[00:03:07] The study looked at seven sites and ranked all the different sites. The top five are shown here with the train depot, water lot, the parking garage, main street lot, and then Prince William parking lot. So the study recommended the train depot lot as a preferred alternative, and the consultant team developed three concepts for that site, which were added to the webpage for public feedback and then were presented at the public meeting on June 5th, 2025.

[00:03:39] And then a public survey was active for three months to gather feedback from the community. So here is a summary of the responses. We received 90 responses. 77 were CA residents, 30 were VRA riders.

[00:03:55] Out of the 30, 23 were also city residents, and then 26 OmniRide riders, and 18 of those were also city residents. So the majority of respondents and city residents supported the site that was recommended by the study, which was trained a lot.

[00:04:14] And in terms of concept, concept 2 was the most popular. It had the maximized public space concept. Respondents who do not support the recommended site recommended the use of the Prince William Street lot. Here are some concerns that we heard from the public regarding the train depot lot in terms of the presence of ADE spaces and how far are those from the station.

[00:04:41] So if this site is selected, staff will coordinate with Amtrak to make sure requirements are met. What about the White Tower lot? This is an opportunity site for redevelopment and it was not adequate for bus turning movements and basis. It was just too narrow.

[00:04:58] Impacts on events. If bus service conflicts with downtown events, OmniRide will adjust accordingly. And then traffic. Well, the goal of a mobility hub is to connect people to multiple transportation options and therefore minimize vehicle or traffic. Visual impacts.

[00:05:14] The intent is to create a vibrant public space. Regular bus shelters are proposed. no major structure to impact the viewshed just the regular shelter that we have on Grand Avenue and here's a rendering of what the public space around the building could look like with a pickup drop-off and then the bus shelter further back so based on public feedback we refined to the two locations the train depot lot and the Prince William lot and compared those two sites here's is a train depot lot and pros are the fact that it's the closest to the VRE Amtrak station.

[00:05:53] We can be closer, it's right there. It provides a seamless experience to the rider. It's a very vibrant space already, a lot of activity, so a lot of eyes on the street. This site is endorsed by VRE and OmniRide and it will enhance the train depot attractiveness. In terms of cons, well, it will conflict with some downtown events and then the city does not owned a lot but if the site was selected then the lot could be acquired with transportation funding so in terms of the Prince William lot here is a concept of what it could look like with a connection to the platform via a

[00:06:33] platform and then a future connection to railway trail up to Fairview the pros is that the city owns the lot and it has a low parking utilization the cons are that it's further away from the view area Amtrak station it will complete conflict with the salad farmers market at least with the parking I mean the farmers market could still take place but then parking will have to be on street or other locations and then it's not the preferred site for URI and on the ride and I'll turn it over to dr. Schneider to just say a few words on

[00:07:06] priorities needs and then current challenges with the current site thank you all for the opportunity it's great to see all your friendly faces been a well since we rode the bus together always throw the invitation out there if you want a great experience please let me know we'd love to ride now if you've been to our current mobility hub you know what our benches look like called a curb the only current space we have for passengers waiting for a transit ride is currently grass areas dirt areas the closest thing to a bench is a tree root and so moving from any nothing to something is automatically going to be a win

[00:07:43] there's no question in that but one of the things that we wanted to bring to the attention is when we moved the mobility hub to downtown, the goal was not to put it at Mosby Street. That was just the one place that we could get everyone to at least no one fight us about it. We wanted to be much closer to downtown because of the connectivity. We're bringing, we moved the mobility hub from the mall to downtown because job access, retail access, all of those different things. And as we look at our future plans, we want to be connecting in people from the innovation district, George Mason, into downtown. We know that's going to be student housing. It's going to be vibrancy,

[00:08:18] a lot of opportunity and growth there. What we've heard, you know, I've been at this for 25 years, and I tell the story that one of the first meetings I went to in my career as an intern in the mayor's office in Knoxville, Tennessee, was they were trying to get the downtown transit station built. They said, well, we can't have the electric vehicles here until we get the transit center built. The electric vehicles showed up in 2003. They didn't open the doors on the transit center for another decade, and they couldn't even find a spot in all of downtown. It ended up being built over top of a highway because no one could agree in a spot. The reason no one could agree in a spot is the very concept of how do we preserve our open space? How do we balance all these

[00:08:56] differences and needs? But the one thing that constantly gets asked when you look at these things are, why isn't everything put together? Why isn't everything co-located? And in 30 years, that's going to be the question. Let's assume that this facility right here gets built and it's beautiful and it's wonderful. In 30 years when re-examining downtown, one of the questions is going to be, why wasn't it the other parking lot? And fill in the blank. So it's one of those things of our interest is focusing on how can we keep presence in downtown? How can we be easy in,

[00:09:28] easy out? How can we enhance access for retail, for shopping, for jobs, for your own employees who work at City Hall? All those things put together. Remembering that our customers start their days earlier. Our customers are the one who made your coffee on your way into work at 7.30, 8 o'clock in the morning. Our passengers are the ones who are keeping those registers open for you at 8, 9 o'clock at night. Access to them, our customers swing hammers for a living. So having quick, easy transfers and a close proximity, all those things are happening. So we're very,

[00:10:03] very supportive of having the location right outside the VRE complex because it does create that mobility. Those are really the key things that I wanted to share. Our passenger, we get complaints in park and ride lots because commuters have to walk too far and those are so those are the exam i'm sincere out where the data centers are the construction workers are stealing their parking spaces and we get constant complaints because people don't want to walk and that's just that presence think of your own when you're traveling and you're in an airport and you have to take the this to get to this to get on all those things happen for in transit like well i

[00:10:42] have luggage come see our customers they're bringing their laundry with them they're getting their shopping done on that bus. All of those things are occurring. And part of Manassas's downtown vision is to have that work live and play. And so the ability to have that connectivity and all those key things are very important. So we're very supportive of the location right outside the VRE station. This would be a great location absolutely will work to make either location successful. But our partnership with VRE isn't just accidental. It's something we

[00:11:15] want to be a long-term part of. I'll turn it over to VRE to talk about the MSS station improvements. Thank you. Because I don't get the opportunity often, we don't get the opportunity. We have, of course, our board members present at our board meetings. I wanted to just take a quick moment to give you a brief update on some happenings at VRE, just so you know. Get it straight from the horse's mouth. Recent one-time performance is improving. We had a three-week period, not quite a month, but a three-week period over 90%, which is our stated goal. We've We had a really couple of 100% days, three in 10 days.

[00:11:53] That was a record in like two years. Ridership, obviously hit hard by the shutdown, but after the shutdown was off, we had literally a jump in 10% over it. So coming back and coming back strong. Ridership is regrowing since the return to office mandate in February time.

[00:12:11] We sailed basically cascading upward two weeks at a time up until about July, September and there was a shutdown. Long Bridge work windows. You may have heard something about this. It is coming, and it is coming soon. The VPRA, our partners at the Virginia Password Rail Authority, are working with their contractor.

[00:12:31] Because of restrictions in the city, a lot of the work cannot be done at night and therefore has to be done during the weekdays, six days a week available. Because of that, there are, just so folks know, from Alexandria to D.C. Union Station, there are 60 trains a day, any given day.

[00:12:47] That's a lot of trains. And do the math. How many minutes per train or how many trains per minute? So there's a lot of compressed schedule in there. So being able to do the kind of work that needs to be done up close to the track has to be done with some sort of curfew.

[00:13:03] So what we're looking at is a work window curfew for service that will curtail some service going into the city later in the morning. It does not affect our afternoon service, but going into the city later in the morning. So we're looking at that, working with VPRA, the contractor, other CSX, our host, for some of that work as well.

[00:13:22] So how that looks is still being shaped, but look for that to begin sometime in mid-January. Right now, that is the target. Manassas Line Service. I'll mention that this is contingent upon a big project we're working on, which is Seminary Yard, which is a large yard facility, former coal marshalling yard that served the power plant in Alexandria.

[00:13:45] That yard is now being, we have a purchase agreement from VPRA who purchased the yard from North and Southern. We are looking to convert that yard for our midday storage. We completed some work literally just Friday before last. We did it. So that Friday we finished that work, track rehab.

[00:14:01] Saturday we ran a test train. Monday we met with the FRA to inspect the yard. And so we are looking to put that yard into service as soon as we can. Once that takes place, we'll be able, we're looking to add a new Manassas line train. So there's current train 330 and 328.

[00:14:18] There's about an hour gap, 55, 65-minute gap in that timetable. We listened to our customers. Customer service survey said, hey, why don't you give us a new train here? We've been waiting on this train for some time. We are looking to stand up that train as early as December, like in a few weeks potentially.

[00:14:36] So there's a lot of things that have to take place, the things you wouldn't even think of like getting a printer to print the train bulletin And so that can be handed to the crew when they leave the hotel, right? There's lots of things that have to happen. We are finishing that now, working closely again with our partners to make that happen.

[00:14:52] So look for a new train coming soon to a city near you. Very exciting. I think we haven't done a new train in over a decade, a new service. So it's pretty exciting. The Broad Run Project, in fact, I think I just signed a lease last week for City Manassas, extended our lease one year.

[00:15:09] We do want to work with you and the airport about that parcel right there. We call it the triangle parcel at the north end of our station. We've been leasing that lot for quite some time and we'd like to take possession a lot because as it relates to the work we have planned at the Broad Run Station, the expansion to take delivery of our new cars.

[00:15:28] So there's a lot going on. I want to tie all this back to something Chloe mentioned, which is we're in that 2050 vision, right? 2050 plan, 2030 plan, 2050 vision, however you want to say that, right? We're very much into that and looking to grow from what is traditional commuter rail into a regional rail service and the city of monastas is obviously part of that looking at you know that's later later trains more frequent service weekend service all of these things are coming there are things that have to happen like dominoes have to fall in order for that to happen the biggest of which is long bridge so you start at

[00:16:04] the top of the list right so you got to work down this list that everything has to happen in the right order for it to be successful so we are working toward that and taking many steps to make that happen with that i'm going to turn it over to doug maui who's going to talk to you about manassas station thank you thank you dallas i'm adam mayor members of council city council good evening my name is doug mario shakriye i am the project manager for the manassas station improvements project and i'm very pleased to be here to provide you with um you know updates on the progress that we've made so far in this project the manassas station project is primarily a safety and operational

[00:16:43] improvements project um it also plans to enhance some accessibility and improve network fluidity with the existing station the existing the existing platform as you you know it's flanked by three grid crossings at west battle street and main street and in particular battle street um presents an ongoing you know safety and operational challenges for vre uh mainly due to its you know unconventional configuration I would say. Battle Street is a one-way street north of the tracks

[00:17:17] and it operates as two-way street south of the tracks. Because of that it creates asymmetrical traffic flow added with you know heavy pedestrian crossing at that location as well as you know frequent train traffic. It just reduces you know the margin of safety and limits VRE's operational efficiency at this station. So as part of our ongoing effort to proactively look at improvements to the station, while working very closely with city staff, we've looked at various alternatives

[00:17:52] that focused at Battlestreet Crossing. We looked at the no-build alternative, partial closure alternative, as well as a full closure alternative. Each option was evaluated based on pre-established objective criterias like pedestrian flow, vehicle flow, walk time, emergency vehicle access, as well as VRA operation and impacts to the environment in the old, you know, historic essence of old town manassas.

[00:18:24] As you can see here, you know, I'll spare you all the details, but we came up with the alternatives decision matrix that's shown right center of the screen. You didn't want to read that. I know. And that's by design. We don't want to get bogged on the details, but we're very thorough about it, and we made sure the decision is made based on technical facts and not opinions.

[00:18:50] That said, the no-build alternative kept Battlestreet Crossing open to both vehicles and pedestrian traffic. The main drawbacks for this option was it was less safe and had adverse impacts to VRE's operational efficiency.

[00:19:07] Partial closure alternative looked at full closure for vehicles at battle, but provided some sort of accommodation for pedestrian crossing. Up and over through a pedestrian bridge or down and under using a tunnel as well as upgrade crossing that's channelized strictly for pedestrian cyclists only.

[00:19:28] The third and full closure option closed both, you know, removed the grade crossing and closed that crossing both for vehicles as well as pedestrians. And I'll go to the next one and unpack some of the features that are included to our preferred alternative.

[00:19:48] This alternative is preferred because of multiple reasons. One, it doesn't preclude any of the other options that we discussed about. Say, for example, if there is a great separated option or connection between the north and south part of the railroad tracks, it's still possible if the city desires to advance that option.

[00:20:09] That said, it's less intrusive to downtown Manassas. It works really well with the city's planned, you know, long-term vision. It also is the most efficient for VRE's operational needs. So that said, components of this preferred alternative include extending a platform south of West Street.

[00:20:32] It proposes to remove the Great Crossing at Battle and infills the gap between the existing two platforms. It creates that continuous boarding edge for VR retrains between West and Main Street. As you can also see on this slide, we are including multimodal pedestrian connection that would integrate the station with surrounding amenities.

[00:20:55] City Hall, Prince William Street parking lot, as well as the nearby businesses. So it does all those three or four things that I mentioned. Some of the additional features that we're planning to include here are, you know, streetscapes that match the existing conditions that are out there and basically channelize, you know, safe crossing for both vehicles and pedestrians.

[00:21:23] Moving forward, you know, our 2050 plan, VRE, includes additional platform west of the tracks, which is highlighted, hatched in yellow, so that we are able to provide bi-directional service and, you know, fulfill and help the regional mobility needs within this corridor.

[00:21:49] This is our planned schedule. We are working to, you know, finalize this preferred concept and advance the design to final design. Our plan is to get somewhere to a 30% design end of this year or early next year with a plan to break ground for construction sometime in second quarter of 2027 and have about two years of construction, if not sooner, and get this station up in operational by mid-2029.

[00:22:19] Again, throughout the process of final design for human construction, there will be plenty of opportunities to engage the community as well as update our partners with VPRA and City Council. That is, I believe, my final slide.

[00:22:35] Thank you for your time. I'll just close this out real quick and then bring us back to our guidance. So Chloe and I pulled these last two slides together to kind of give you the vision. So again, short-term, long-term, this is kind of your short-term vision. You can see the parking garage that's been discussed about, the potential extension.

[00:22:52] for the rail with trail you can see the platform extensions that's your short term but if you go into where we're looking for guidance tonight this is what it could potentially look like in the really more of the five to ten year mark depending on your decisions and discussions on battle street and on the mobility hubs and so with that uh mayor we are looking for guidance the collective staffs are looking for uh questions of course and then guidance on both both the battle street closure and of course okay council members i see mr osina is all ready

[00:23:26] to go mr osina you have a question thank you um first of all uh i want to say i have ridden uh the bus um you know your balls ford um balls ford uh parking lot is that is is that a mobility is that a mobility center it's it's not been envisioned that way it really is but it does have multiple buses that that go that leave from there correct we have one one route that serves through it um just one just one it makes its connection with the other routes at the one other

[00:24:03] route at manassas mall and then what it does is in order to get to tyson's corner it just travels up the north end of ashton and then yes i've ridden it from the mall on out my my question is so why is there a lot at balls ford it's a parking it's really a vdot park and ride lot okay that's that's its core purpose all righty so so really the mobility hub is at the mall no we just have it's just we have to transfer that between the 60 and the 65 well anyway i've written it obviously to the silver line so experience that along with my

[00:24:39] fellow counselor over here we we uh did that along the way and likewise when you get to the silver line there's no no benches no nothing along the way there either right for any of those buses along the way. Your friends at Metro know our perspective on that side.

[00:24:56] And, well, were there benches out there at Paulsport? Not a lot of them all on that. But anyway, had a chance to do that sort of thing. I did have an occasion to attend the public meeting on June the 5th and heard from our residents and saw the presentation along the way.

[00:25:22] But before I continue, I did have a question of our police chief, and that is his perspective of what he is looking, having seen this, and of course you've heard about this obviously earlier, along the way here with the buses here along Prince William Street, Main Street, along the way here.

[00:25:42] Your perspective on the buses along with everything else that currently is taking place traffic-wise and pedestrian-wise there. Matt conveniently walked away from me when you called. So just keep in mind, not weighing in the mobility plan and the good things.

[00:26:03] For me, simply looking at traffic safety, Prince William Street already poses a problem for traffic safety. I want you to remember you have school buses coming through four times a day. Once in the morning for Osborne, once in the morning for Baldwin, once in the evening for Osborne, once in the evening for Baldwin as well so it's four times a day they utilize Prince William Street and Main Street we also have the parents and the school traffic in their cars that utilize Prince William and Main both for Osborne and Baldwin and then you have your residents and commuters

[00:26:40] using the parking lot parking garage so from strictly traffic safety there's already a lot traffic probably pushing it to its max in our opinion for the Prince William and in Main Street intersection you also have to think about you have your your van meter subdivision going in right down the street that's going to bring additional traffic to that area as well so from my perspective the traffic flow and the traffic creation is a problem very good well this is my observation to

[00:27:18] both of your requests here. This is Tom talking here. And so first of all, the question I have to ask is, does this work for Manassas? Not for the VRE, not for ERTC, these sorts of things.

[00:27:39] What about the people who live, work, and play here along the way on that sort of thing here? And the folks that would be, you know, coming in to get on the train, well, I do recall when train service first started, several of the businesses attempted to get business from the train riders, and it didn't go very well, you know, by having a kiosk where they could serve coffee or snacks.

[00:28:09] and likewise in the evenings there's not a lot of bleed off into our town that i've observed and i would probably say historic manassas would observe it comes because of the train uh writers there people want to get on the train want to get where they are i know i do and i live here and likewise when i get home i'm not looking to go off get something to eat i'm looking to get home uh on

[00:28:40] those kinds of things here and so i understand why you want to be there but you know we use old town for a lot of other things it's an economic engine for us it is we support it supports a lot of jobs just the way it is at this particular point here and that the folks that may drive in and ride the train for instance don't do a lot of business here uh and likewise if you're talking

[00:29:14] about bringing more buses in along the way now um i i worry about not only the traffic here but how how how do we live along the way here uh in terms of people being able to maneuver along the way here i mean we just had to shut down a railroad crossing here to get some work done on wellington and that had caused major traffic snafus in our little town here um and that's that's just for a couple of days. So I worry greatly here. The idea of closing

[00:29:50] Battle Street, I'm not particularly a fan of. And I look, you know, at the chart. What do I say to the businesses that are right there at Battle Street and at dead ends where they're used to getting pedestrian traffic? They're getting used to people coming out of the parking garage and walking up there along the way. And then suddenly to have that closed, what does that do to their business? What's the impact to them along the way? So that's why the bottom line here I put down,

[00:30:26] does this work for Manassas? By that I mean for Manassas, people who live here who actually have to work and not have to, but do work here, who do live here, that use, you know, visit the businesses, but also frequent it along the way. We're putting substantial money in building a parking garage downtown uh over the next few years that's the plan uh on that sort of thing and so i would encourage you to to be looking elsewhere broad run is as a for instance greatly underused

[00:31:01] as a place where buses can come in drop people off along the way uh there's plenty of parking there i don't think it's filled to capacity is it you're referring to the falls fort lot no broad You had mentioned Fallsport earlier.

[00:31:19] Yes, but no, the broad run station out by the airport. German Assess Airport. Yeah, that's right. That sort of thing. And obviously, you've heard about commercial air service coming, we're planning on.

[00:31:36] For us, that's a wonderful growth opportunity. We love to be able to get people in and out, you know, to the airport. And likewise, maybe even flying in and getting them to Washington, for instance, or other points along the way there, which seems as a, but that's not my job to worry, to tell you where to be looking along the way here.

[00:31:59] But I would encourage you to, I would ask one other question. As you know, the Prince William County is working on what's called the donut around the judicial center there. And as you said, you're on the backside there. Have there been any discussions to, for instance, have the current mobility hub move there to the refriguration of the judicial center?

[00:32:28] Potentially, but that's not where people want to be. They want to be in your downtown, and that's where a passenger. So, for example, you talked about VRE, the garage filling up. We're bringing people into downtown. After VRE stopped running, we're delivering your workers into downtown.

[00:32:46] So they're already walking that distance. So when you say that, so what are the statistics show? When you say you're delivering the workers here, what do the statistics show? What workers? How many? Where are they working?

[00:33:02] When we say workers, are we saying workers in Old Town? Are we saying workers that are getting office jobs? Are we talking about people who are working? Who knows where? All of the above. Approximately 40% of your ridership is worker-based. 40% is social, medical, et cetera.

[00:33:18] 20% is what's considered leisure ridership in the western part of the county. The interesting thing is that the dynamics have shifted post-pandemic. So what we're now seeing is we saw an increase in worker-based. Now we're seeing an increase more in the social activity base. That's been a shift.

[00:33:34] We haven't done a survey in about four years just because of how the dynamic is changing. We have one budgeted for this next year to better capture that. But one of the differences is, quite frankly, prior to that, we were at the mall and we weren't bringing people into your downtown.

[00:33:52] They were actually, they were skirting your downtown. So we're introducing, we're inducing ridership because of our movement. And that's why our ridership is up over 100% of what it was pre-pandemic. And we have more service inside the city of Manassas than we had before.

[00:34:08] We've increased our frequencies to every 90 minutes, to every 45. Ridership has responded. So as we look to doing things like tying into the innovation district, where will those students and activity hubs be? It will probably be downtown Manassas.

[00:34:24] So we're going to be continuing to follow the expectations and patterns, because that is what the development pattern tells us. We look at the infill along Route 28 going to increase. That won't change. So we're looking at those kinds of things, and we pay close attention to not only what the county does, but what the city does in terms of its small area plans and zoning.

[00:34:43] How you're zoning for retail and how you're zoning for residential, those are the two things that drive things for us. Retail, because it's jobs and shopping. Residential, it's rooftops. And one of the advantages that Manassas has done is you have the multi-level townhouse approach to close-in development, which is fantastic for ridership.

[00:35:02] Because that's how you end up getting people living in downtown, walking to VRE. You can live a short distance from downtown, hop on a bus. It's reducing your car, it's reducing your car traffic, and that way that garage doesn't fill up as early as it will in other types of approaches.

[00:35:18] If you don't have the mobility access into your downtown, everyone has to drive into your downtown to access it. So those are just some of the trade-offs that you'll experience when figuring out the future of the city. I get you. Let me point out that I don't think the garage that VRE has in Old Town is ever filled up on a regular work day.

[00:35:43] It gets filled up at night after the trains have stopped running or on weekends, especially on the weekends. They're a little way on that. And the reason we're building another garage is we're planning, hopefully at some point, to be able to build a hotel.

[00:36:02] People come to a hotel, got to park somewhere along the way. You've already been in our old town there, so in that case. And there will be more housing being put in, to your point, there along the way where they might park. Plus city employees, you know, it's being built right out here.

[00:36:21] So city employees and ideally, you know, we're going to be able to put more of a concentration for our city workforce. And that's a city employee workforce along the way here, which is our biggest interest of having the garage there in that regard.

[00:36:40] And then after hours, being able to fill it up here along the way here. I would certainly always be open to hear how people are coming from other areas during the daytime, during the work weeks that are coming in here and actually shopping.

[00:36:57] Because I would love to see that kind of hard data. That would be impressive to know that that's really happening, that we're getting that sort of thing, as opposed to a weekend as a, for instance, or in a... But I've taken up too much time.

[00:37:12] I appreciate your candor and you listening to me here. Mayor, thank you. Madam Mayor, if I may address one piece of it. So the train station obviously isn't going away. The railroad service, the VRE service isn't going away. I want to make the point that perhaps some of us have that when you add the bus element to it, right, you gain some synergies.

[00:37:35] And the more people you put on a train or a bus, the less people you're going to have in a car choking your streets. That is kind of the point, right? And whether it's coming in or going out any time of day, with a greater transit benefit, better the roadway network, period.

[00:37:53] And that will help with the traffic, in my opinion. That is what transit is about. It's getting people on trains and on buses to get them out of their car. And some of these people don't have cars, right? So there's that piece, too. So you're giving them that benefit to be able to get to this nucleus. If you think of it as the word hub implies, right, it is a nucleus for them to transport themselves.

[00:38:14] So thank you. just a couple of factors on one point we're not doing any of this development in a vacuum interchanging and how they relate and reflect each other we must not lose sight i know a lot of emphasis is on walkability for whatever happens at the nasa shopping center in reality there's a certain class of people that just won't be able to walk from manassee shopping center to downtown old town some of our southern parts are that the staff of shopping center will enhance

[00:38:53] out downtown and so forth. So transportation does factor in that. I'm not, right now when we talk about the future, it's so difficult to visualize something other than the two-door buses and the long car trains. The people in transportation will be looking towards what transportation options there may be.

[00:39:14] We certainly, somewhere down the line, 10, 15, whatever years, would have to find either movable sidewalks or something to transport people downtown to. We talked about we wanted Manassas shoppers to be a destination. I think it's a term that was emphasized when they were talking about it before If it's going to be a destination, then destination, then we need to be able to move people So I guess what I'm saying is just some of the factors we need to factor in and not think of things in a vacuum

[00:39:48] I love Battle Street. I love crossing the shortcut over that. I think some of the thinking has to do with Manassas shoppers and staff I was thinking some of the, again, you brought it to my attention when you talked about the commercial service.

[00:40:07] I guess we want to get them moving. I just moved them down to Old Town and down to Manassas Shopping Center rather than having Dr. Bob's on the bus all the way to D.C. for my plain fashions. I would like my plain fashions to spend the night here for various destinations.

[00:40:31] Thank you, Madam Mayor. Since I joined BRA, it has been, for me, all about ridership. And I believe that connecting the bus to the PRA, the closest that we get, is the easiest we can connect, as long as it is connected.

[00:40:52] So I'm not saying that location. And I cannot thank you enough. It does work for Manassas. But I think we ought to find ways to make sure that works for Manassas, that works for PRA, that works for PRTC, and I do believe And, you know, whether you are in the environmental side, you know, you want to, you know, ride a bus because you want to, you know, help our planet.

[00:41:25] And, you know, whether you walk, you bike, all those things that we do, it can make it better. And I believe this will make it better and give more options so people can do it. I'm a big fan of the new train because I believe that's going to give more options to people and they're going to be able to also ride it and go and come back and an extra train, which would be great.

[00:41:50] But I do love the project. I don't know about the location. There is so much going on in there, and I think we are so – we have so many things planned, and when we do it, whether we do it in a few years or many years, we have to do something that works for many, many years, and then it can grow and it can drive whatever that location is.

[00:42:18] And that's my big concern. And I do see, you know, I believe I was there at one of the presentations, maybe at the very first one. I did hear about, you know, the feedback. And I understand it, but I also understand, depending on what you present, you know, that's what people also, you know, see and try to, you know, endorse.

[00:42:42] So the location is a big thing. i did talk to some of the uh owners and that side in regards to closing that and i believe when we saw it the first time it was a big surprise it was something we hadn't thought about it it still is you know i don't know if that is something good for uh for our city uh i also know it takes four so i will wait and everybody else is coming thank you mayor a couple questions um for the prtc the

[00:43:20] The bus, you had mentioned that people wanting mobility, they want to live in downtown, they don't want to live out by broad run. But that area where the VRE is and the airport, that's not an optimal bus stop area?

[00:43:41] It just isn't. I mean, if you've been out there, it's heavy industrial. It's far located from, quite frankly, downtown. And that's a very, very long distance from the heartbeat of the city. And that's a very important part. People don't come to downtown Manassas to go to do the traditional big box shopping.

[00:44:01] They come downtown for the quaint shops. They come for the restaurants, the higher quality restaurants that aren't the typical chain restaurants, quite frankly. That's why I come downtown. So it's just a different element. And it's also very hard for connectivity when you think you have Northern Virginia Community College in the Sudley Road corridor.

[00:44:20] Those are light years apart in terms of corridor growth and development. So there's just not a lot of rooftops over in that area. You have to get to the far side of Linton Hall. And at that point, that's all county development out in that area. What would it take to get a stop out there?

[00:44:36] Like what kind of increase in population? Because we do have room out there, you know, for growth. I'm just curious because with the airport coming, you think having a bus would be a big perk for transportation? I'm just going to be honest. People don't want to live near an airport.

[00:44:52] So that's just one of the things that I've experienced. So our workforce population. I can add a little to that on Bob's behalf. We've not precluded that in the design. In fact, we've included potential for a bus rotation, if you will, in the lot.

[00:45:10] And we've been in discussions with the airport manager as well about having a shuttle between the airport and that lot as well. There's lots of potential synergies between the two, whether it's an omni-ride connection, a shuttle connection. We've made provisions for that in our broad-run station design for a bus, if you will, whatever form that takes, whether it's shuttle to the airport or residents.

[00:45:35] And that would be determined by BRE or PRTC? Both of you working on board? Working together. Whoever's, yeah. Okay. It's not our input, it's your decision? We would provide the infrastructure. They would provide the service once it's needed. Okay. I'm also thinking about, you know, we have, like, a lot of land out there, and if we're considering, like, workforce development or more housing, if there's no direct transportation, that's something, you know, that I think is important to know.

[00:46:02] Because you're saying the downtown is the hub. That's where our workforce population, they want to be because of the ridership that's available already, and they come there to work. I'm trying to just understand, you know, the strategy here. A lot of folks probably are coming there to work.

[00:46:19] My folks were coming there to get on the train to and from work, typically. So it's a combination. But PRTC buses can bring people to the station to get on the train. That's a common practice as well. People that don't have a car need to get to a train station, whether that's Broad Run, Manassas, or Manassas Park.

[00:46:36] People around the county are going to do that. Okay, next comment or question is, I'm curious as to why the main street parking lot was not really considered, Because I see it as a possibility, but it was very low in the totem pole.

[00:46:52] To me, if you're going to be in Old Town, that's one parking lot that isn't impacted by events. Because usually the closure is right there at Prince William. It seems like maybe you are the experts. This is just me observing the flow of people in our city.

[00:47:10] It seems like you could do an in and out right there on Tudor Main, access to Wellington, which goes to Parkways. You know, I know that it's closer, probably easier to maneuver at the train station, but we have so many events and it would be, you'd have to reroute anyway, unless it would impact our events, which I'm kind of worried about.

[00:47:34] Also, I don't like the closure to Battle Street. I understand why would it be more convenient, but when you're looking at the convenience to cross there from the parking garage, dump into our old town Manassas, which relies heavily on having that flow, I think it would hurt our businesses.

[00:47:57] Another thing I want to mention is, you know, the leased lot at the town, at the train, it's owned privately. So has anybody approached them about that lot? or would it be like an eminent domain situation?

[00:48:17] I mean, I've been in touch with the owner to let her know, to let them know about the project, and then she came to the public meeting in June, Mayra, and I've been keeping her updated on the progress of the project by email.

[00:48:34] Nothing more than that, just saying that it was a long-term study, and that was one of the sites proposed for that. But she does have a right to refuse selling. Good to know. And also, one other thing, the courthouse, I know that's what you're using as a hub, and you talked about that a little bit, but why isn't that working? Is it because the distance to the train station is too much distance for mobility?

[00:49:05] All of the above. We're right outside Social Security Services. There is no space for, you'd have to dig out trees. It's a steep embankment. It's that turn at Mosby Street. So I'd encourage you just to drive by there and take a look and you'll see it's just what's a Social Security parking lot on one side, Senior Center on the other, the courthouse.

[00:49:25] Yes, there's us on that are office building on the other side. Right. And I do want to answer your prior question. You had asked, had we considered the Main Street lot? Yeah. About four years ago, we put together a proposal with the city to use that. We've been so far as we went out and we measured the distance between trees, how wide a shelter is in a slab.

[00:49:44] But that was, and I don't remember who we worked with, but that was at one point that we were looking for an alternative other than Mosby, something that had a little bit of closer proximity and access. could put in some benches or shelters on existing curb space and um i think chloe it was while you were i think we looked at the prince room a lot i don't know about the main maybe we're maybe i'm confusing the two lots the one we looked at was the triangular lot directly a catty corner from the museum next to the school that's the one we looked at right next to the school even so far as we recognize that you have the children's playground there so we were we even were investigating what type of fencing could be used for a visual block so you wouldn't have the kids

[00:50:24] looking at the our the bus facilities so i just want to answer that question for a long time ago baldwin was the bus station i believe wasn't it or was it the museum a long long time ago it's either baldwin or the museum i think yeah i heard about digging up the gas tanks i wasn't here obviously but oh there's a building downtown that looks to me like an old greyhound station but i I can't remember which street or which one on the facade since I moved here.

[00:50:58] The old Greyhound buildings had to have a look. So when you see them, you kind of recognize them. Thank you. Yes, thank you all for your work on this. You know, I want to echo Councilman Osina's comments and, you know, is this right for Manassas?

[00:51:16] A lot of changes are on the way. And, you know, as Councilman Smith said, we can't think of this in a vacuum. We've got to think about this as a big picture. I like the style of the hub as it's pictured at the farmer's market lot, although I think that we would be really creating some serious bottlenecks on Saturday mornings, among other things that happen in the city in that area.

[00:51:44] But to Chief Keane's point, I think it's actually six times school buses go through because the Baldwin is an elementary and an intermediate school. So it's quite a bit of foot traffic, young students. And I don't love the idea of having the waiting riders in view site of the elementary and intermediate playground.

[00:52:07] I'm not crazy about that either. So I like what we're talking about, broad run. Maybe there's some space out there. But having a connector to Old Town would be great. I appreciate your desire to make Old Town the heart of, you know, this whole big development that's happening, Western Prince William and everything.

[00:52:27] But the other, I guess the other change I'd like to address is the closing of Battle Street. I had a couple questions just to see if you all considered within this design.

[00:52:42] I actually used to live on Battle Street above one of the shops there and had a lot of experience with waking up to 4 a.m. delivery trucks for the restaurants, large trucks that needed to be able to sit there and then and then keep on moving, you know, namely for the bone, you know, the ones that are all the way inside the street next to the train track.

[00:53:07] So did you all consider the delivery trucks, how they'd get out, how they'd turn around? Yeah, we did. So part of the analysis that we've looked at is not only just delivery trucks, but also emergency vehicles, ambulance, EMS, fire trucks.

[00:53:26] So they are still able to get in because Battle Street will be open up to the right-of-way line of the railroad tracks. Again, it would be one-way road, but with minimal wrist-striping of the connector road between, or the parking space between Battle and Main, they can actually do, you know, a successful, like, negotiate, maneuver that and get in and out out of that park.

[00:53:55] It's called AutoTurn. There's a software that will let us look at that. Battle Street's really narrow. It's actually very difficult for a large fire vehicle. You can't technically get down the street and get back out. There's no way out, essentially. So I want to be clear, a couple things about Battle Street. First of all, there's a compromise to be had, but anytime you mix those three modes, pedestrians, trains, and cars, right, you're asking for a risk.

[00:54:19] And I don't think we would be looking at this were it not for the other two streets so adjacent, right? That's rare, to have three grade crossings in essentially 600 feet. That is pretty uncommon, especially for a railroad station. So looking at those pieces, the very low volume of vehicular traffic versus the very high volume pedestrian traffic there, and I recognize that, but at least turning off the vehicular traffic will help us in many ways.

[00:54:51] And it's not like it's a big offset, right? It's a 200 feet, either way, you need a block. But for those deliveries, which can be accommodated, just like the fire trucks can be accommodated. So I think closing it at least to vehicular traffic is a very useful endeavor.

[00:55:06] Again, I want to unpack some of this a little bit about the platform and make sure people understand the why. It's a lot to unpack, but hear me out, right? So we've gone to great lengths at VRE, even in the short time I've been there, to lengthen our platforms, right?

[00:55:23] Why is that important? So if we have an eight-car consist, right, eight cars, and you have to shuttle people from the in-cars to get off on a platform that only holds five cars, right, that takes time. Not a lot of time, but it takes time. We pride ourselves at VR in a very short dwell time.

[00:55:41] Dwell time is the time on station and time out. We're about 90 seconds, and that's very important to us. That's comparable to transit systems like Metro. It's very, very impressive. But any time that we add to that is time-consuming and fuel-consuming.

[00:55:58] So it sounds crazy, but if you can save 12 or 15 seconds per stop at every station, for instance, every train over a 10-year period, how much fuel and emissions have you saved? It's a tremendous amount. So what we're looking at here is improving the efficiency of the station by being able to stop and unload and load quickly at the station and get out of the streets, right, get off of the streets.

[00:56:21] All of that helps. Another, from a safety standpoint, we have people that step off, they stand basically behind the gate on Battle Street. I've been there, I've seen it myself happen. It happens in Main Street, it happens in Battle Street. It's a very unsafe maneuver. Putting the platform there with the tactile strip improves that, right?

[00:56:40] So, again, only way that piece of platform that can be done on the east side, right, is to close that street. And it's currently one way and one direction anyway. You can't cross going west on Battle Street. So these are all enhancements, safety improvements, efficiency improvements that are important to us.

[00:56:58] Now, could we compromise with the pedestrians? I think there's something to be had there. But again, as Dugman, we mentioned, it doesn't preclude a future move. You could build a bridge, you could build a tunnel that takes people off of that street. Again, we've looked at the numbers, especially like 4th of July.

[00:57:15] It's so many people, but it's normally, it's like a thousand people across that crossing. So there's a compromise to be had, but I think closing it to vehicles is important because there's accommodations that can be made, and it's not that big an offset.

[00:57:31] Again, it's only 300 feet in either direction for those vehicles. First off, I'm appreciative of something that has not been talked about, is the concept of the feeder buses coming in from Fauquier and Culpeper and stuff.

[00:57:56] Since they're not in light enough to allow VRE to extend, it does recognize Manassas. as an employment hub and one that will continue to grow very significantly for Northern Virginia. And I appreciate that.

[00:58:13] That will help our businesses attract talent and get people here. I guess my question was, you're showing the hub connecting at the Manassas Station, not Broad Run. And I didn't know if there was a reason or it just happened since he says he's got the answer.

[00:58:33] If you don't mind me, Dallas. I can't see Nick. But I trust him. I'm the planning program manager. So, yeah, when we were putting together the system plan, you know, we had envisioned those longer distance bus connections for the Falkiers and the Culpeper County riders connecting at Manassas because you get the spillover effects of giving those people connections to future local transit.

[00:59:01] So you might have somebody who wants to ride from Culpeper to Innovation District or to, you know, the mall. And so you can make that connection downtown. As was previously stated, the Broad Run facility, there's really not a lot of opportunity to add rooftops there.

[00:59:19] So we didn't really see that as a viable alternative. Very good. Bob, current or projectable future plans, put some context to things. Any idea how many buses a day we would be talking about at the depot?

[00:59:40] Aaron, let's do some cipher. Well, with the three current routes going in there, probably about 30 to 40 buses.

[00:59:56] 30 to 40 buses. So are you significant? Yeah, between all the routes. Between all the routes. Here's where I would look at it as in the near, right now we have service every 45 minutes. So that's three vehicles at most every 45 minutes.

[01:00:12] One of those routes actually connects in only every night. So it's actually two in that interval. If we were to have, because let's be frank, 45-minute transit service is not good service, but it's what's affordable.

[01:00:28] Good service is every 30. So realistically, for the size of Manassas, for the population volume, you could expect no more than four vehicles every 30 minutes in the near term. Manassas would have to be a very, you would have to have tall rooftops.

[01:00:46] Your horizon would be radically different for there to be anything other than that. But realistically, you have a Sudley Corridor, you have a northwest, a south, and an east corridor. Those are your directions when you look at the layout of Manassas and the development grid. The Sudley Corridor, you have the Liberia Corridor, you have the 28 Corridor, and then it's a lot more nebulous once you get further south in terms of the corridor development pattern.

[01:01:09] So assuming either option, I'm going to make an assumption and you tell me where I'm wrong. Buses are going to come in or out on Grand Avenue and up and down Prince William Street.

[01:01:27] Back to Grand, or are they going to go through to Fairview? They would go back to Grand. Okay, so it would basically be in and back out, in and back out. So you would not be looking at traffic going, essentially, if you were at the depot, to Main Street or further down towards the schools.

[01:01:49] Right, no, they would just... In and out. Grand is our access to the other side of the train. Yeah, so you're not because of the trains, right? Yes. Oh, yeah. No, I'm trying really hard because I've got to tell you, I've seen enough mobility hubs every time I go to Europe, and they're all horrific.

[01:02:10] They all look terrible, and they're just lousy. It's the ones I've been at. I just really like them. I understand the concept. And you guys are the home team, and I want to be there. And I'm like, what I will tell you is I can't conceive a universe where there is a bridge or a tunnel to support pedestrians.

[01:02:34] I think that creates bigger issues than we can fathom. And the police chief would probably put me in handcuffs and fall me off if we go down that road. I could probably get to something with closing ballot-to-vehicular platform.

[01:02:57] Boy, there's just way too much traffic right now on the pedestrian side. I agree. I think, and again, I think that's the compromise to be had. I don't like putting people on the tracks, period, but it is so many people, right, currently, we could find a way to make that work, at least in the short term, where when the appetite was there, you could do another, a grade separated crossing, like we said, tunnel or bridge, that could be used, probably tunnel would be more efficient, to go under the track with literally, I mean, it's like 1,600 people a day.

[01:03:31] it's a lot um but again it's such a short offset it's a short offset to either block right if you're coming and we recognize people are parking in the garage when it's not non-vRE customers and that's okay park in the garage cross the tracks going to dinner right going across the track to shop or eat right that's happening a lot from that location we have more vehicle vehicle incidents

[01:04:04] on west street than we have pedestrian incidents on back yes but it monthly occurrence um this is not a decision point informational. You were looking for guidance from what I remember you said. I don't know if he's looking for it today. Your Honor, I think primarily on VRE's purposes, PRTC, my general takeaway is I think we have some more discussions about, I think, looking at PRTC about ridership and Council Member Osina hit home with wanting to see some of the more,

[01:04:43] some of the more of the numbers about who's using the system. So I think we have some more education that's that's a little further out as council member goes else mentioned parking lots of lease so we have some time on to continue the discussions on prdc i do think vre would appreciate guidance if you look at their timeline i guess for the sense of council on a vehicular the compromise full closure the compromise position or the kind of the as-is condition that would be helpful if i might add the question for the vre guys in the end is you know your business for many times more better than i ever will but help me help me understand over time we

[01:05:21] are going to double the number of trains long the long more than that hopefully yeah all right we're going to hold the number of trains we're going to go from nine car eight car trains to nine car trains eight eight car universal that's the drawing showed nine that's the locomotives eight cars okay okay eight cars um i guess the degree of your confidence that the ridership will grow such that you need the additional platform capacity.

[01:05:55] And I understand the efficiency discussion of getting people off the train a little bit quicker, but there's a part of me, the businessman of me is like, the metrics don't match. It's not about the number of people on the train or the number of trains. It's about the flexibility in both directions. So right now, so it doesn't, railroads are very different than highways, right?

[01:06:13] And so if I need to use that platform and only that platform on that track, I have to get to that track to do it. And then if I have opposite moves, right, that's a meet. And if there's the signal blocks on these systems, five to ten miles apart, right?

[01:06:29] So I have to switch tracks five miles away. So serving the platform of Manassas Park and then getting back to the platform on Manassas. So if I have dual platforms, I can have far more flexibility, which then increases my capacity and reliability. So dual platforms.

[01:06:47] And that's that's a longer term vision. I understand. But I said, let's look at. But the platform in the west would be on the railroad right away and would be synchronous with the platform on the opposite.

[01:07:02] I understand, but where I'm going is if you've got a platform on the other side and you're not going to want pedestrians crossing said platform from the station, essentially forcing us into a bridge.

[01:07:18] No, well, inter-track fence. We do inter-track fence between tracks. It's customary for when we have platform edges on opposing tracks facing each other, we put an inner track fence between them so that people don't cross the tracks. They have to go to a channelized. I would prefer a bridge, some sort of grade separated structure, whatever that looks like, but there will always be the Battle Street and Main Street are not going away.

[01:07:40] I'm sorry, West Street and Main Street are not going away. They could walk off the end of the platform and walk across the street. I would put, in my drivers, I would put, I would fence it from West Street to Main Street and force people to go to those corners to go across the street.

[01:07:59] Thank you. I got one more question. So what's the plan for keeping the cars off the railroad tracks? So I want to offer something unique that we just tried. We instituted it at Quantico when we finished the project at Quantico.

[01:08:18] What you're seeing on the drawing there, it's an MUTCD manual for uniform traffic control devices. It's a federal manual, highway manual. And that painting, the don't block the box, right? It's a don't block the box, which you normally see at roadway intersections, right?

[01:08:36] One of those was recently painted here in the city, but we put it out at Quantico and offered it to the city as a solution, and it seems to be helping. I think what's happening, honestly, I think what's happening is people are using their Google directions, which says turn left 100 feet, and they get what they think is 100 feet, and they turn left on the track and not turn left into the station.

[01:08:58] So there are some things we need to do from a technology. We actually changed the address of our Fredericksburg station, right, to go on the opposite side where they get people to the right location. It's not a great crossing, but the point is still the same, to get them to the right entrance.

[01:09:13] I think there are things we can do, but the first one that has already been done is painting the don't block the box because people are stopping on the tracks. Our public works department did, as soon as we saw the concepts before council even saw them, We said, can we do this now? And our public works department went out about a month later and implemented that.

[01:09:31] And I think we've only had one incursion down significantly. So it's having the impact. There's a little more we can do in there. We have to work with Norfolk Southern, whoever's currently in charge. But it appears to be effective. It's helping. Thank you, Mayor.

[01:09:49] Comfortable with? By the sense of the council, the head nods is that we're looking for a hybrid. I don't get the sense of council's wild about full closure. So we're going to go back with VRE and kind of look at the middle options, as Dallas suggested.

[01:10:05] Generalized pedestrian. Generalized pedestrian. So narrow it up. Make it pedestrian only. No bridge, no tunnel. No bridge, no tunnel. Not in the short term, I think, until you find it to be a problem. Until you find it to be a problem. We'll come back on that design. It's not. I know that's what he said.

[01:10:23] I didn't hear that from council. From the vice mayor, he said, I thought that's what I hear. No bridge, no tunnel? My opinion. What are you talking about? No, no, I don't think we ever talked about, I don't think anybody talked about any type of closure.

[01:10:40] Battleship. Yeah. Maybe. Well, Tom, you said you were not in favor of closing battleship. That is correct. And I think Ashley and Risa both said no closing. Is that what you mean? Well, I just want to make sure that the point is taken because the way I hear it is like there will be some new, I don't want you to do work if I cancel, there's no...

[01:11:08] - You said hybrid. - I guess I'll go back later. - Hybrid. - Yeah, I'm gonna make the point, the very, very low volume of vehicular traffic, like 250 cars a day. Yeah, there's almost, there's very low, we did a traffic count, and it's very low volume, especially compared to the two adjacent crossings.

[01:11:29] But the pedestrian traffic is very high, especially compared to the other two crossings. be high anywhere it's it's a lot of pedestrians crossing right um but remember it's one way you can only go one way on that crossing anyway right so and again that probably dictates how few battle street is very narrow that limits the size of the vehicles you can actually get down the street so closing it i don't think is a huge detriment to the traveling the vehicles traveling in and around right i don't think it is and we can make accommodations for like you said for the delivery meeting or is council looking for the no builds alternative is that the sense of council

[01:12:08] hang on i have a question just just but yes go ahead finish on no i didn't again i just want to make sure that it it was you know everybody the four people consent at least because that's that's not what i understood i do see it i don't i i hear long term i understand that right there i mean i'm all about the restaurants but right there is also their factory and and uh and a lot goes on

[01:12:41] in there as well and and then does it require automobiles one thing that i've been talking with matt about rather than a full vehicular closure with your hybrid that you were looking at of maintaining the pedestrian were you still looking at extension of the platforms on either side so yes so I go back to the go back to the image right I can point to so the question would be if you are looking at a an extension of the platforms rather

[01:13:18] than leaving eight foot for pedestrian can we talk about 12 foot for just a single southbound battle street for vehicles and pedestrians that kind of defeats the purpose what we're looking to do is make this a contiguous platform from here. West to a main. Yeah, all the way down. But you were saying that you were going to allow pedestrian access. So you can, basically we can narrow this up, put a fence, put a gate, not a gate, the fence, inner track fence, eventually, and open this up. You can just step off like a step.

[01:13:55] Without ADA access. Without. It is not, it doesn't have to be ADA access. The ADA access, that entrance to the station. I'm just talking about all of the folks that are wanting to go from the parking garage to downtown not all of them are actively mobile and part of what PRTC was saying was that the more that we diswayed people from visiting the downtown having to walk through to other ends of the streets to access downtown I well personally I don't know that a full closure would actually

[01:14:29] ever be considered by by the city I'm sorry Tom I'm gonna make sure it's all right yes just for you cannot make a railroad crossing ADA here technically there's no such thing as an ADA compliant steps from a four-foot platform are a true impedance. I would like to continue. Thank

[01:14:59] you, Madam Mayor. Manassas was built because of the railroad and we are here. We have a very successful, you know, train station. I think, you know, since the first time I saw it, I knew it was you know a huge surprise that I wasn't expecting it and uh and you know if we're talking about trying to maybe um slow down or do a change to maybe in five and ten years to see if we can adapt to that uh you know I will be open to it to see how it looks I make sure that we can try

[01:15:39] that it doesn't hurt business but the way that I hear it I just I just I just can't and and uh I do understand, you know, we do have, but we have three streets. If we talk about First Fridays, I mean, like, I cannot imagine people going through that.

[01:16:02] And, you know, like, it's just difficult. And it has to work for Manassas City. It has to work for what we need to do. And, yes, you know, people can go on both sides. They can do it now. I just don't see the ridership and the need today to close it to do that.

[01:16:23] I do understand that I'm fully in support of the other part and everything else that we need to do. There is so much work that is coming in the next five years. I truly believe that, you know, that today this is no need.

[01:16:41] I want to make sure we're clear. and like what I'm saying is we can keep it open to pedestrian and close it only to vehicle is that what the vehicle count is very very it's like the vehicle count is important to access those businesses and what you're there needs to be an asterisk by your qualified access for pedestrians that they would have steps on both sides of of the access steps are random you can't do a ramp Yes, you said steps.

[01:17:18] A step, a step, a single step off the platform onto the grade crossing to walk across the grid to Battlestream. Tracks. Across the tracks. It's a single step. I believe that, you know, we can all, you know, talk and bring models.

[01:17:38] This was based on the feedback and on all the hard work. I know how important this is for a lot of people. I do support this, but I don't support, especially the more I hear it, I don't support the closure of Bottle Street.

[01:17:57] It might seem like they're closed. It might seem, you know, that it's not as important. It might seem, it can be two, three cars. It can be just the cars for the supply. But as a council member, I have to make sure that those businesses and our factory has everything they need for us to continue to be successful.

[01:18:20] And whether it's a step or no step, even if it was a ramp, I think it will make it more difficult, especially for the first Fridays and for other activities that we have. We have so many activities. I mean, that is like, Battle Street is Main Street for Fall Jubilee, for so many other activities.

[01:18:44] That's our heart, even though it seems, you know, small. So it is, no, it is, and I'm wrapping it up, but, you know, the more, you know, I support, you know, partially and I, you know, I feel like, you know, any future or any changes to this, I would like to see it in writing and I would like to see information that he provided.

[01:19:11] and we are here 24 7 the trains are here to bring and i'm you know i'm sorry for saying that because i'm at the vre and i you know i have asked for more trains i asked for ridership to increase i still believe that we have to work on that uh but i have to you know before being a vre i'm here for manassas and and and that is i cannot imagine i mean closer i cannot imagine want to step in there because all I think is how many people is there and those people that are

[01:19:45] there they know they're for the train and we need to have a street that works for everybody everybody in Manassas. Again it's not a hill we're dying on it's your city your street your station right I mean I mean that's the answer let's be clear right but but it is a safety thing and it is an Operational efficiency.

[01:20:07] So think of that as well. Got it. Mr. Osina and then Mr. Smith. So, Chief Keene, hello, over there. He's still here. Yeah. So there's a fire. There's a fire, let's see, yeah, right here at the fire factory.

[01:20:27] The normal way a fire truck would come, would it be coming down Center Street and turning, Or would it be coming Prince William Street and coming against traffic, but coming up this way?

[01:20:47] Which way would it go? I'd ask the fire chief, but he's not here. Which way the police were going to go? It depends on the size of the truck and where the fire is at. So where did you say if you had to call it the candy factory?

[01:21:03] More than likely, they're going to probably come in off of Main Street and go into the parking lot. So off of Main Street, take a left into the parking lot. To your right. Across from Sinistral. Oh, come in this way. Yes. Okay. That's how they'd come in.

[01:21:18] Yes. I believe so. Gotcha. Okay. Very good. Thank you. Just don't want to start creative thinking, so I'm willing to have where I thought we were headed with further discussions between staff and PRTC.

[01:21:38] I mean, the BRE, but also PRTC. See, we haven't shut them down. I don't know. Just one point, we get loose with our conversations sometimes. Let's not forget that the examples, some examples cited tonight as to what this will interrupt.

[01:21:58] As I recall, all streets in this area we're talking about are shut down to vehicle traffic. So it's not going to impact fall festival. It's not going to impact Friday night. I mean, first Friday. It's not going to impact several things that were cited.

[01:22:13] It'll have a major impact, significant impact. But let's not throw things in there that's not correct. Let's be accurate. Madam Mayor, my comments weren't related to that. My comments were that we have vendors there.

[01:22:29] We have vendors at the Manassas, you know, at the train station. We have vendors along the street. And then there's, you know, other events that happen. And, you know, we have the first Friday live right there on the street.

[01:22:45] I mean, you know, the reason why I brought it up is because it is important that we see. If people came across there, you know, it will bring up. It's not that we have less people. I believe one of the times we said we had about over 20,000 visitors on the 4th of July.

[01:23:02] And, you know, that is part of the heart. I don't know if it's because it's low in the cars. But, yes, I want to, you know, make sure that, you know, what I'm looking at is that if that is close and you can across, you know, it will cause, you know, disruption.

[01:23:19] And I just want to make sure the residents, not only they know that they have the information, but this also can impact our businesses and everything in there.

[01:23:35] Because there won't be the space where they're standing when they're having the events and when they're crossing. So I just want to make sure I make my point clear. I just want to make sure my comment is clear. The discussion, I think, from this point forward is that there will be some pedestrian traffic that's not shut down.

[01:23:57] I would reference the fact that when we talk about shutting down the vehicle traffic, the example's given for the nights where there is no vehicle traffic. That's my move on. One more question.

[01:24:14] When the buses would have to be rerouted, rerouted for events, where would they go? Be determined. And what I mean by that is we generally use the city's street planning grid of what the shutdowns are. So we're already, that's the joy of us, we're flexible.

[01:24:31] If the event is going to be pushed further toward the west, or I guess technically southwest, then we would flex over possibly and do transfer points over on Prince William Street. If the events are happening along Prince William Street, then we would stay at our, we'd just relocate to Mosby.

[01:24:48] So there's already, it just depends on what the city has planned and the size of the event. It definitely would be an impact. I was looking at your times, you know, Saturday to around 1130 a.m. You would be in the city area, Saturday, 730 p.m., Friday, 730 p.m.

[01:25:09] You know, almost every weekend we have something going on. You know, it doesn't mean it's shut down, but I'm wondering how confusing that would be to passengers, you know, when they're trying to figure out where to go. Not very, because we are pretty consistent with our fallback area. is a great example we have shutdowns in dc street network issues every day yeah so so so we have consistent fallback patterns and we learn our customers we basically tell them we're x equals y and our passengers know that information i'm not a fan of it being at the trains the buses at

[01:25:43] the train station with 30 to 40 buses a day but you know i think we should look at a different location closer that's just my opinion sounds like it's a very congested area safe either mayor just as you're wrapping it up um clearly we have some more work to do go back and i would propose that we reach out directly to those businesses on battle street to get their direct

[01:26:21] input which would hopefully answer some of the questions at the table whether the streets closed to vehicle traffic or not it's a small data point but we should be able to reach out and I think that would come back to the table directly with their information it's small but it's important because they are right there and they're living it every day so they're the ones and we don't know everything so yes just make sure you do both blocks and full blocks because if you know it does affect both full blocks if you can I think when it's

[01:26:55] is the art factory but the other one is few so if that was possible i'll appreciate it madam mayor if i may yes um one last piece i would offer that in in the spirit of progress we could progress with our proceed with our project if this is in question it could always be done later like we could go and do this work and the work we have planned at the station and do this later it's simply a connecting this platform to that platform that's all we're trying to do and that could be either later if it was decided that it could be. Well, Matt, have fun working this out.

[01:27:34] Look forward to what you come back with. So thank you all very much for your input in being here tonight and helping us talk it through. I believe this is the first time that we've actually sat down and looked at this in this depth. Yeah, with everybody. So first time out, we had a lot to get through. So I appreciate all the comments. It is a lot to think about. And again, as I consistently say we are not like everybody else we are different and it has to work for us and we don't want to make things worse we're trying to make it better we have a lot of stuff going on in the city a lot of building a lot of traffic and concerns

[01:28:12] and we don't want to make things worse when we don't have to so it is going to take everybody working together to come up with what works for us so thank you all thank you thank you for that next item on the agenda is item 1.2 the appeal of the denial by ARB for 9229 Portner Avenue this was deferred from our last council meeting yes for discussion tonight do you have anything to

[01:28:52] Yes, very quickly. Yeah, just a quick Mr. Walker presentation. Three slides. Yep, it's just a continuation of the appeal. As you know, the public hearing was closed out on the 27th. We did a little bit of, provided additional information about the four houses that comprise LeBow Row.

[01:29:11] These are 9300 West Street, 9227, 29, and 31 Portnare Avenue. The LeBow Row houses were included on the original list of historic landmarks as adopted in 1984, was the same year that the local historic district was put into effect we've included in the agenda packet a short chronology by the of the architectural surveys and the past ARB cases that were identified for all of the properties includes an overview of all the changes that the city was able to identify to the properties and that includes four ARB approvals for two of the houses and of note there was a ARB case that included a COA certificate of appropriateness for 9300 west street which was

[01:29:49] was approved in 2010 to replace 35 year old wood windows with custom vinyl windows we also provided a full copy of the contract between the property owner and the contractor for the windows window nation that was requested by council at the public hearing that's included in full as attachment for in the agenda packet we did just want to draw your attention to some of the language under item 9 of the contract which may be a particular note to council. We will just note that this is a private agreement between the property owner and the

[01:30:21] contractor, so staff aren't able to comment on the contents of the contract. So in the interest of time, I want to bring council back to the decision before then. This is an appeal of an ARB decision. The ARB denied the application for the vinyl windows following a property code enforcement action. The applicant has appealed to you in accordance with the code. Council has a couple options here obviously you have the option to affirm the decision of the ARB you can reverse the ARB and approve the installation of the vinyl windows with the additional information we provided

[01:30:56] there's a modified decision I believe the appellate has sent you some comments talking about taking a look at only the front facade versus the entire building and of course you can remand the decision as always back to the ARB in part or in whole number four is going to be productive with the ARB based on their decision, but it's an option for council.

[01:31:18] We've provided a lot of information. I can talk, Ben and I can talk about any of the other questions you might have, but I really wanted to come right back to the decision before you regarding the appeal. Madam Mayor, pursuant to resolution 2026-325, I move that the appeal be denied and the decision of the ARB be affirmed. Second.

[01:31:43] We're okay with doing a motion taking care of that here. We have the motion by Vice Mayor Wolfe and seconded by Councilman Smith to uphold the ARB's decision, not the denial or accept the denial from the ARB. I said that right.

[01:32:04] Any discussion, discussion, hearing and seeing on Mr. Smith? Vice Mayor Wolfe? Yes. Council Member Smith? Yes. Council Member Ellis? Yes. Council Member Alcina? Yes. Council Member Vasquez Luna?

[01:32:21] Council Member Hudson? Yes. Motion carries. Thank you so much. Item 1. Commercial and

[01:32:31] about the commercial and industrial tax as the city manager said the exact legislation is attached in your agenda packet but in some the state allows for

[01:33:08] northern virginia and the hampton roads um transportation authorities to impose property real property taxes on commercial and industrial zone property to be used for transportation only for new and expanded services or capacity the maximum rate is 12 and a half cents that you can do and in the nvta area the only jurisdictions that currently have this tax are arlington county fairfax county and city of fairfax um based as you know this would change every year but based on

[01:33:43] current assessments we would generate approximately 2.5 million dollars with this tax and the average commercial property tax bill would be an additional 2 800 and the average industrial property tax bill would be an additional 3 400 staff doesn't currently have any qualifying projects that we can come up with that we don't already have um that we're not already using mvta funds and we do a really good job of leveraging state and federal funding as well for those projects and our recommendation would be to consider this in the future once

[01:34:23] we've established some larger projects that we could utilize this and i know from talking to some of my counterparts that this is the same discussion they're having in other jurisdictions that we're considering it in in the future but the three that i mentioned are the only ones that actually has a habit as of june 30th of 2025. thank you mr osina did you have and i'm calling on you because you're the one that asked for this to be on here so you're calling on you first so you're you're you're very kind i i do not i've had this explained to me privately

[01:35:04] there you go that's right uh but i did i did want to follow through because i believed it was helpful for all of us to to hear it hear about it uh you know whatever purposes uh along the way but i know there are no qualifying projects and uh nothing coming up that seemed to be appropriate here and i don't believe that there should be an additional tax on our commercial and industrial

[01:35:35] Businesses here. I agree mr. Cena. I just a little information at two days Joint meeting of the Cog and Metro boards. I pointedly asked delegate sickles. Okay, this is really nice We're y'all gonna come up with $250 million

[01:36:04] And delegate sickles expressed a pretty significant degree of confidence that it will get done some discussions and others and I would ex would not be surprised if something like this is not part of the package at a state level they ask us to impose it on whatever

[01:36:37] probably will go through in VTA or they just impose it themselves comments thank you for that comments or questions okay more of our comment i mean i just want to make sure that you know the we always talk about it and consider but you know the not only the residents but also the businesses you know are also a priority too so i just want to you know

[01:37:13] i appreciate the discussion and bringing it up and understanding it i know we have a lot of things coming at us right now i just want to make sure that either residents or businesses are worried about. Thank you. Moving forward, item 1.4, the agenda, proposed ordinance amendment for commercial car wash hours of operation. Yes, ma'am. This was basically just a status update. Again, councilman had brought forward some concerns and staff have been working to draft an ordinance

[01:37:50] that would establish operation hours for car washes that are adjacent to residential areas. and the staff have developed that ordinance and have advertised you will be having a public hearing at your december 8th meeting for uh first input and then long-term consideration so if you had any questions we're ready to answer anything but we believe that what has been identified as as concerns would be addressed by the proposed ordinance event so on the eighth will social

[01:38:29] Services is here for item 1.5. It's great to see everyone.

[01:39:02] The council, thank you so very much for supporting me this opportunity. That also being said, you know, at the end of the day, I prefer when we meet on different terms. But, um, needless to say, for our Social Services Department, it's very simple. You all have had the opportunity of seeing this slide before as to all our different programs. Specifically, we have one of our newer programs, which is opioid abatement, which came online roughly about a year and a half ago. Our priorities have not changed. We're still working on employment.

[01:39:35] We're working on 97% compliance rate. We're trying to ensure that at the end of the day that children are safe, absolutely zero fatalities. So that's pretty much our goals. Again, like I said, just trying to be brief, considering the timeframe that we have for tonight. So our situation remains the same regarding our population, roughly 93,000. 45% are what are called working class, the working poor, along with those that fall below poverty. We have 37.1 that are receiving benefits. And so just providing that, if you look, you'll see roughly 9.1 living

[01:40:15] in poverty and 13.9 being children. Those are very consistent numbers. What has changed is that we now have more agency constraints. As we know, we had a government shutdown. It was very positive that we're moving forward in the right direction with the government reopening. However, there's some pieces that comes along with the reopening. We also have the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, which is formerly known as food stamps. We have as a state a payment error rate that can

[01:40:49] me roughly $360 million in having to pay back annually if we're unable to get below error payment of 11%. Well, get below 6%. Currently, we're at 11% right now, 11.5%. We have Children's Services Act's needs. We also have reduction in the state pass-through rate by 8% and revenue, ultimately revenue reductions that are getting ready to occur. And I'll go more into detail on these. So government reopening. We were one of the few states that were capable of being

[01:41:25] able to move forward with emergency nutrition. So it was a VENA program, the Virginia Emergency Nutrition Assistance. That being said, that was state funding, 100% in being able to go and fund clients for a week at a time, 25% each week. That ended. We moved into what was as a whole using the SNAP contingency, which is federal dollars. That lasted for roughly a week in time. And then we moved forward with the U.S. government opening up and we being able to kind

[01:42:00] of access those federal dollars again, not contingency, regular SNAP. So our clients in the city of Manassas basically did not miss anything. They had the 25 percent, then from the 25% we loaded the 65% and then from the 65% the rest which was the 35%. And so that's where you see on that slide the dates that each piece was loaded in getting that client to 100%. Today it was confirmed throughout the state that all clients have been funded 100% of their SNAP allotments, their full allotments. There remain a couple of concerns that's out there just to be

[01:42:38] aware of the Meals on Wheels for our elderly that is not it's gonna take six to eight weeks in being able to get funding back online with Meals on Wheels so being able to ensure for our elderly individuals that are in the homes that we're capable of being able to get food to them the WIC program remains looking at there again it was the same thing they came online right along with us so when it comes to baby formula when it comes to additional funding for mom during our pregnancy for food those things will continue what we still have

[01:43:13] on pause is our energy assistance program which is the crisis applications so as we're moving forward into the heating what we have to do is just kind of make certain for clients that are running into crisis and being able to the applications are being processed but they're what's considered pending they're sitting on hold for a moment and being suspended until the federal government gives us the authority to be able to fund. Right now there's zero money that's in that in that bank area. So community impact is to continue to watch. That's the reason why we use

[01:43:49] the kind of like the red light green light knowing snap is green. It's good to go. We're moving forward. We just need to continue in having those conversations in the community. We also know that we have had a couple of different opportunities to connect with our food banks as well as our pantries and being able to step up to the plate. Yellow, again, is WIC and LIHEAP, the energy, just letting folks know that it should be coming back online. We anticipate that to occur, but it still kind of remains out there. And then for red, VENA has completely ended, and that is a program that immediately would be shut down, and hopefully we'll never have to go

[01:44:28] back to it again. That being said, for the client, it was seamless. Everything was still loaded on the regular same card. So the client never saw any changes that transpired during this period of time. So for the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, even though it's 100% at green, there have been policy changes that we need to be aware of. The exemption from work requirement at the time for limited veterans, homeless, and former foster care participants, age 18 to 24, that is ending. So they will need to work in being able to receive SNAP. The expansion of the general

[01:45:07] work requirement, it was anyone that was over the age of 54 would not have to have the work requirement. I'm sorry, over the age of 65. Now it's been reduced down to 54. So just to kind of let folks know that we are having to ensure that everyone that is working. So if you're 62, you still will have to have a work requirement, which comes along with the SNAP program.

[01:45:30] We also have the dependent exemption. It was up until the age of 18. Now it has been reduced to the age of 14. So if you're between the age of 16, 15, 16, 17, 18, you will need to work. You will not be considered independent. You will not be considered dependent. You will be considered independent at this point in time. New exemptions, which does not affect this, but I just wanted to have that up there for transparency for Indians and any other eligible in Indian health services so just putting that there and then new waivers for localities a lot of localities that had

[01:46:05] unemployment rates that was over 10% what would end up happening was that there would be a waiver kind of put in place especially if there were not the resources and being able to hire so some of the western territories that we have, that's where that kind of comes into place.

[01:46:24] There will be no waiver, so that will affect a lot of the more rural areas and just for folks to be aware of. So for us, the biggest piece that we have, more individuals including adults age 18 to 64 will now have to meet that 20-hour work requirement to continue receiving benefits.

[01:46:48] We also have what's considered the CSA, which is Children's Services Act. This is a large one for us. When we're looking at children, we're looking at their behavioral needs and being able to ensure that they're appropriately educated and appropriately placed in the community, having the supports that they need.

[01:47:07] So it starts off with the schools many times as to where you have IEP, or it may come from a family member and saying, hey, I have a concern, can you help me out with my child? Our goal is to try to ensure that we keep every child in the city of Manassas receiving the services that he or she needs.

[01:47:23] However, we also know the impact is around here. It's weightless, and then along with that is the cost of living. Many of our providers in this area, not many, I will say just about all, have increased rates. They haven't increased rates in a couple of years, so it was a significant increase.

[01:47:43] The impact is pretty large. That being said, on top of that, what we try to do is not just look here. We do have to sometimes go outside of the city of Manassas. We look in northern Virginia. We look throughout the entire state. And we have some exceptional children that we ended up having to go out of state for.

[01:47:59] A good example is that we are working with a child right now that roughly out of state is $620,000 per year. So that is $51,000 roughly, rounded up to $52,000 each month.

[01:48:17] That being said for us, we cannot anticipate the amount of children that come into our care. I'll give you a good example. On Thursday, we had 35 that were in our care. Come Friday, we had 37. Come today, we had 38.

[01:48:32] So it fluctuates. And what we try to do is to meet those needs as quickly as we possibly can and try to reunite the child with his or her family member. But that being said, not all the times are we capable of doing that.

[01:48:49] Not all the times do we have the resources that's here in our area. And so we can't, we're kind of putting it out there, making decisions and trying to anticipate. Yet at the same time, we do know that this is a significant need.

[01:49:05] I've looked at other localities and trying to see where they are. We are all in the same boat. Larger localities, I think, like Fairfax was 4.5 million that they were having to go back and look at. And then we were looking at some of the other places.

[01:49:21] I think that Loudoun was roughly at 3 million. And these are larger localities. But what you're looking at is even with being the larger locality, having a lot of resources there, is still not enough because you're still having to go out of state and we still had to account for the increase in costs. So when we talk about increase in costs, uh, please know, uh, we talked about the, uh, $360 million. Um, that being said, when it comes to our state and having a snap

[01:49:53] repayment on top of that, uh, what you're having to look at is as a whole, as we're reducing, uh, some of the services that's out there and kind of streamlining, you're also looking at what pass-through looks like. So the federal government gives us a rope, I call it a ballpark figure as to where we should hit and should not exceed for the services that's needed for our children, for our elderly, for those that are in need. Once we get past that ballpark, it may have started as to where the federal government would provide 100 percent. But once we get past that ballpark that they give

[01:50:30] us in figure, we then move into what's considered pass-through. There's a match rate. Okay? So as we're looking at the match rate, what you're having to identify is that you may go from 100% all the way down to 50%, all the way down to where we're having to fund 100% ourselves.

[01:50:48] So we cannot predict. It's almost like a scale based off of the needs in the community. If it's high need in a specific area, we work very closely with sister localities. We also work with resources in the community to see if we can service that child outside of DSS if we do not have the funding within DSS, okay?

[01:51:14] Not all the time does that work, and so what we do is that we move into what's considered the pass-through rate. So take a simple ballpark figure of 100% funded, right? You move to pass through and it drops down to 50%. As a whole, the federal government has looked at it and streamlined and said, hey, you know, y'all were a little short as the United States as a whole.

[01:51:37] Every state is now having to move forward, specifically for Virginia. We're having to increase by 8%. Each state is a little bit different, but for us, we're moving roughly, say, if it's 50%, it's now going to be 58% when it comes to the pass through. for the local match uh the pieces that we look at that is again you know simple things that we kind of take for granted and being able to balance that budget is going to be a little bit harder and challenging and trying to get there and so we do look at those pieces we are one of the one of the localities that do go above and beyond and trying to match the child's needs

[01:52:13] i will definitely say you know that some of the pieces that i'm very proud of so just to know that That it is now, it's not a one-time, it's not going to temporary fluctuate, it is a mandated 8% increase there. That being said, as we're looking at the programs and knowing that we're doing a little shave here, a little shave there for the United States as a whole, looking at all from Medicaid, looking at the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, all these things, there are going to be revenue reductions.

[01:52:48] So the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, SNAP, the law includes reform, which is described as work requirements, as there are less people that's on SNAP, that's less revenue that's coming to our city. Immigration fees as well. We look at immigration regarding some of our children.

[01:53:06] As the immigration fees increase, there's also going to be pieces in being able to identify, we don't, you know, how do we work with that child at that point in time. Another revenue reduction. We also have Medicaid provisions, which requires a work requirement. Same piece here.

[01:53:23] Less folks that are able to access the resources, less revenue that we're able to bring in. And then you were looking at the overall outlines for spending for the federal government, which includes reductions or increases in various federal programs.

[01:53:38] And when we talk about those increases, it's looking at increased impact on our side. So these changes leads to reduced revenue for all services across the board. Tried to move through as quickly as possible. Any questions? Can you tell me, you said the Meals on Wheels reduction, what was the number?

[01:54:00] You said it was gone down back online? For Meals on Wheels, it's going to take six to eight weeks for their federal funding to come down, even though that they're funded underneath SNAP. It's taking a little bit longer for them to get online. of the snap was immediate as to where we were able to access those dollars the meals on wheels is not it's gonna take a little bit so based off of each locality as to whether or not they have reserve funds to be able to kind of you know fill in the gap until those funding until those federal dollars come down it'll be us up to us to kind of check in to see where they are on that part and

[01:54:38] you have taken notes as you were speaking and read my writing now And when you say you have kids, you say in our care.

[01:54:54] That means that kids that are actually there in social services all day, all night, what does that mean? Well, this is very interesting. Technically, we have one that's with us all day. We took a kid into care.

[01:55:09] What ends up happening is that when we take a child into care, we're accepting as having total 100% responsibility of the child. We become the parent. So what we have are usually foster care homes as to where we can place the child, but ultimately we make the decisions for the children.

[01:55:28] We work with the foster care home, but ultimately our agency is responsible for whatever actions transpire with the child. If we're unable to particularly find a home, then we are the home, literally. And that's pretty much where we are tonight in being able to try to ensure that we make certain that this child is safe.

[01:55:49] And I had been emailed right when everything was getting shut down about the hacking of some of the cards, the EBT cards and all that. Did that affect people here? Did you get informed about any of that?

[01:56:06] It's an ongoing piece, and I will say the state of Virginia is working to see about getting a chip on the card. That has not transpired yet. Looking at the large potential debt that we all have, which is potential $360 million that may be placed on hold, we're seeing as to how we can kind of work around it.

[01:56:30] But a lot of it was education and showing folks how to turn their cards on and off. Literally, you're to keep your card off at all times except once you go into the grocery store. You can check your balance using a 188 phone number.

[01:56:46] And then from there you go in, you get your grocery, you cut the card on, you purchase, and then you cut the card off immediately. And last thing, you have the Friendsgiving that's being sponsored with you guys and several local churches on the 24th at the community center.

[01:57:06] And that's just where folks can come and get a meal, or how is it working? a little bit different this year what ended up happening is that there was a QR code that was placed throughout the city as to where all you had to do is use your phone or come into social services and we would help the individual or the churches that were involved and so basically the client just went on ahead filled out three questions letting us know that their city residents letting us know that they have a snap case and then from there what we do is that we just let them know the time that they can come to pick up

[01:57:40] on this time it is dry goods and so you have goodness stuffing instant potatoes a lot of those type of pieces they're just picking up the things to do that thanksgiving already packed bags dinner rolls you just know no hot meals this year yes ma'am so thank you okay sorry council members just because of what you said that was one of the more enjoyable things events I was in we packaged

[01:58:14] I've been involved with a total of 1,000 bags but the enthusiasm from the volunteers just it's heartwarming that's quite an effort yes looking forward to being there when when we see some smiling faces and confident faces but I just want to say though I've watched and observed and very impressed always with is that her sister Kirman and her staff, really for all they do, I mean, we just, in the report,

[01:58:53] she was able to bottom line it that our residents, her clients, our clients, really didn't just be, it was seamless for them. Think about whatever our definition of something that's seamless.

[01:59:09] We're talking about a staff that's delivering 100%, a very successful staff, dealing with people they're without, But they're dealing with very emotional, emotional, destroyed people and sadness and all of that.

[01:59:27] And yet they're able to keep their comfort level, enhance their comfort level as they work through it. And I just repeatedly will say thank you. Thank you to your staff. We are very fortunate to have what services you have provided.

[01:59:50] I can see your hand. Hold on. Hold on. You may ask what I can ask. No, no, I want to say, you know, it's at the times that people need it the most. Or, you know, when they need it the most. And, you know, I love the work that our chief king is doing with social service.

[02:00:10] And also, they work with the fire department as well. Because at all times, you need something. But the professionalism and the dignifying way that you do it. because there i know there's people out there they need and they wouldn't ask uh but being able to um you know be there and you know and be seen and be um helped with the respect and uh in and and keeping our dignity which you know it's not always possible but you know i i

[02:00:44] truly appreciate it and uh and uh you know i'm very concerned uh even though we see the percentage and we hear the numbers i feel like this is just the tip of the iceberg and it is you know we don't see total amounts how it's going to affect everything that we do you know if you're homeless it's not like you have an easy job getting a job and more than likely you already have a hard time getting a job and that's why you're there as well so you know i you know i'm looking forward and working together and see you know what I can do to help but I do want to say from

[02:01:21] the guide and and all the support that you do you know I you know I truly appreciate it I believe that while I've been here and you've been in the department it has been I enjoy to see how not only you conduct yourself but everybody and and I appreciate it and I want to say when the budget I know nobody wants to hear that when the budget comes around i think it will be important for us to be looking even though we don't wait in on on the non-profits but i believe they work uh that all

[02:01:58] three um departments do with a with some of the non-profits in regards to this i think this budget is gonna be the next budget is gonna be the most important because those are the places where we can you know make a difference uh yeah i'm really concerned and you know this you know really i worry a lot but i appreciate the update and having the government of openness uh somewhat

[02:02:27] better that's the way um again thank you challenging to begin with and even more challenging with games political games in washington i i will uh extend appreciation to the governor for him stepping up on this now but let's put some metrics on this and mr burke if i'm going far too far too fast just tell me to shut up and i will but 360 million dollars in the state i assume most the vast majority of that is the eight percent reduction in the pass-through credits from the feds

[02:03:06] so our chair you will be determining that this was simply the opportunity to let you all know what nicole and her staff have been doing recently what nicole and her staff will be having to deal with going forward there is going to be an impact budgetarily on how much we will be needing to put forward in your 2026 budget we are also expecting to be transferring some money internally to end 2025 so we will be working with that it may get to the point

[02:03:40] that we have to come back to you all as a budget amendment for the 2025. please recognize it's we're the messenger and and we're still looking to be providing the services so uh we don't have a we have a ballpark but it's significant but we i don't want to throw that out until we have a real good and this is not a looking ahead through the messenger situation by any stretch it's something we had nothing to do with we had no ability to control and we have to pay the price so tell me

[02:04:20] a little bit about this. So there's SNAP benefits now require 20 hours of employment. And if I recall correctly, this includes veterans between 18 and 24. So those who have served and homeless.

[02:04:51] so explain to me how how successful how do i put it this how where where who's hiring the homeless in the city well mr usina council member usina i will say that i have a stellar team that go above and beyond to try to ensure that we meet the needs of our clients that is helping them with employment that is helping them with resources out in the community that's meeting them in the

[02:05:28] parking lot that's going out in the middle of the night and counting to see where they are and we will do our best to try to ensure that they get what they need and they have the knowledge of how to obtain. Now we can't make them go out and do this. What we can do is we can educate. What we can do is step by step go through the process along with them. If they're willing to do those pieces we're willing to get them across that line. They have to do their part. So do they have to Like check in once a week and show you a pay stop for certain programs. Yes, sir. We have a program We have two different programs

[02:06:08] It's a snap employment and training and then we also have not just we also have what's considered view Which is for those that are working and have children. So that's employment as well as just a different type of program So what they have is that they have to show that they're looking for employment They have to show us verification that they've received employment, pieces that come along the way.

[02:06:32] Maybe I need a pair of work boots, or I don't know how to even interview. We help with all that process in getting them across that line. Simple things as to, you know, I'm sleeping in my car, so I don't really have gas.

[02:06:47] We will get them the gas guard to get them there to the interview or to get back and forth. So those pieces still remain. The piece that comes along with it, it is a lot more hand-holding.

[02:07:03] It is a lot more verification. So from beginning to end and processing the case will take a little bit longer. But that being said, that's empowering the client, that's empowering a person to be able to be sufficient and take care of themselves.

[02:07:19] So why should we not do that? Well, I don't disagree. I'm just trying to figure out how. It's a lot of work. It's a lot. Yeah. No, sir. it's a lot of work you know and I'm you know have we rolled up our sleeves yes we have do we need every bit of manpower yes we do we do we need every bit and being able to get this done as are you being impact with a reduction in the support that the state provides for positions in your department our

[02:07:55] positions are stable that being said we also have to look at the overall bottom line on budgets. Our biggest piece is to make certain that we're financially responsible with taxpayers dollars. So yes, we try to keep it as streamlined as we possibly can. We do, being a midsize, we have multiple hats and that's really what it boils down to. The capacity and being able to say, hey, you know, it's a lot. Yes, and we also know that taking on that challenge. We're here,

[02:08:34] We've done it before. We'll do it again. Like I said, the pendulum swings back and forth. Many, I remember roughly around about eight or ten years ago, it was getting all the backlog Medicaid, you know, renewals and applications in place. We were capable of getting that done.

[02:08:52] We will be capable. We will get this done as well. What kind of, there used to be a council of churches, of which I think you participated in and your predecessors did. Does that still exist?

[02:09:09] Does it meet monthly, or how does it operate now? That is correct. How do you leverage those resources? We work with the Interfaith Coalition, yes. They meet once a month. We let them know what our needs are.

[02:09:26] Actually, we had one church that stepped up to the plate to fund all our children for the holidays. So that was very, very successful in being able to get gifts and moving forward. So we're prepared for that already. We have reached out.

[02:09:42] The church has been together. That's for the Friendsgiving. That was one of the other pieces in being able to ensure that clients had, you know, additional food, knowing in this particular time that a lot of times the resources are short for them. So, yes, we do use them. And we go back and we have those conversations.

[02:10:00] also take it to advisory board and the advisory board they get out in that community and they work really hard in trying to get information and or resources for us as well good to hear that's still around thank you so much for your efforts there and please let the team know how much we appreciate what they're doing thank you mayor i know there's no impact but i just want to make sure the warming center is open and it's available because you know one of these days it was really

[02:10:37] cold and that might be for the city but since you're here i just want to make sure that you know correct the baptist church is operating the shelter out of the rear of the community center thank you tanya thank you so much the dynamic duo see y'all everywhere together how you support the events at the city and having your table set up and you're always there and making sure that people have your information we really appreciate your efforts and what you're doing um for our

[02:11:13] residents here is just so impactful to everything everything and people you know needing homes and food and you know it just extends so far beyond anything i can do so extra effort that you all do is greatly appreciated and we know we see you we see what you do and we appreciate it so much thank you for hanging out late and being with us tonight we appreciate it you're used to it right No problem, we're good.

[02:11:40] Thank you. Thank you so much. There's a toast to you. Toast to you. Starbucks. Toast to Starbucks. Right. Next item on the agenda is 1.6 Piosa City Code Amendments, City Code Chapter 118, related to the segment of wastewater discharges in the city.

[02:12:02] Yes, ma'am. Basically, we've got the city attorney and our director of water sewer and our assistant city manager for utilities here. They've been working with UOSA to arrive at some proposed amendments.

[02:12:21] Basically, it's housekeeping, kind of defining what there is, but Craig is here to go through all the dirty details. With Mr. Small's assistance. Good evening, Madam Mayor, members of council. UOSA did approach us several months ago.

[02:12:38] requesting a number of amendments to the city code ordinances that govern wastewater treatment and disposal as I think all of you know wastewater is collected in the city and transmitted to you OSA's water reclamation plant up Centerville Road I think you know I have been tempted to refer to them as housekeeping amendments as well because in large part I think that's what they are although I don't want to minimize their importance to you also because you

[02:13:17] also sees these as essential to making sure that they are in compliance with both federal law including the Clean Water Act in state law including the state water control law and regulations of the Department of Environmental quality as you can imagine wastewater treatment and in this case their large these amendments are largely geared to a pre-treatment and treatment of

[02:13:50] wastewater for from industrial users and you also has them emphasized to me that these amendments are being prompted by their desire to ensure that they are in compliance with federal and state law it is not because our major industrial users have not been responsible for citizens and are not complying with the law every indication I have is we have very responsible industrial users in the

[02:14:24] city and they take their obligations in terms of wastewater pretreatment and treatment very seriously a lot of these amendments that have been negotiated between UOSA's council and me with mr. smalls assistance of utility small about economic development and it has been a very productive process many of them actually just reflect the reality of the current situation I'll give you an

[02:14:57] example on page 3 our current city code reads that the superintendent of the wastewater treatment plan is the person designated by the city manager well that's not accurate the superintendent of the wastewater treatment plan is not designated by the city manager and so we're changing that to chief executive officer of the publicly owned treatment works there are a number of other changes of similar vein where instead of the city it will say you'll see the acronym potw which is publicly owned treatment works is responsible for

[02:15:37] setting limits and testing wastewater and treatment processes of our industrial users we made an emphasis in working through the enforcement section of this ordinance to ensure that any enforcement undertaken by UOSA was in coordination with the city and that we are not aware of any type of action that they bring and approach this more as a partnership. I will ask Jeff, is there anything you would like to add?

[02:16:14] Thank you. I've gotten it pretty nailed down. You know, a lot of the language you'll see is some definitions and definition-driven, some old corrections, as in who was assigned. It's a lot of replacements of the right acronym as to who the responsible party.

[02:16:33] A lot of those aren't changes from what was. They're simply aligning the text. And then in areas where there are changes, as Craig said, it's the alignment of who's setting local limits, right?

[02:16:48] We don't set the local limits for the treatment plan. So it's that alignment of language that truly gets it defined. Attention comes around more so on these with EPA, PFAS, other topics. That has everyone looking at pretreatment programs with a lot better eyes.

[02:17:08] You have a lot of language that's sat for a long time that hasn't had a huge amount of relevance. So in this day and age, it's much more relevant. Brian's coming in, and that's the root of this genesis, not a something was wrong, something was out of place.

[02:17:26] I've got no indications at all of any issues of that type. Well, Ed, you also offered to be here tonight. We suggested that they wait and come when this is on your formal agenda. I mentioned to the city manager, you frequently hear presentations from related entities, know EDA school board HMI I can't recall whether you've ever had one from you OSA so that that would be an option for council if you wanted to hear not just a presentation in response with regard to these amendments also more of an

[02:18:06] overview of you OSA in the city's role in you OSA so our plan is to put this with council's permission on a future agenda is formal ordinance amendments for your consideration, and Jeff and I will be happy to answer any questions that you might have.

[02:18:25] Thank you. I think we are going to have a presentation on it. That's correct. Right now it's currently being aligned for December. We'll look forward to that here. Yeah, for me, the only part that, you know, and I understand I'm not worried about the changes.

[02:18:49] I do worry about overreaching, and I'm always looking for that in any contracts or the language, ambiguous language, which is what concerns me. but the last the only one that really caught my attention was the the clothes added the number the page 20 but she was talking about you know all the other you know fees and i know you have said it and i think i tried to ask a couple of things uh today at the at the site scene which it was very helpful i appreciate it but we know all i'm going with is we know that's one of the

[02:19:24] most expensive parts of our bills and it is you know it's smaller than what you actually use for water or for other things so i just want to make sure that we you know are sharing our customers because it's not just residents customers everybody that these will have a direct effect on them because this is no you know it's not changing that and i know we know but sometimes we don't you know say it and not explain it enough you know especially today it can cause you know concerns

[02:20:01] especially seeing the presentation and knowing that that is i you know before council before anything related to politics i knew about disliking you also and i knew where they were located so you know i will say i truly enjoyed the visit i really learned a lot but i just need you um you know I I don't need insurance but I just need to make sure that public the customers know this is not going to have a direct cost on them that is more

[02:20:35] updating the way is happening and it's a city utility customer I'm well aware of that this this is this is not in order to impose any additional or greater charges um counsel for us and I had kind of a different perspective on this because in my opinion it wasn't needed a state law already gives them this

[02:21:11] authority as a regional authority they are they are established similar to the EDA under state law and state law gives them the authority to make these fees and charges her response was that they are trying to be consistent in each of their member jurisdictions which as you know Fairfax County Prince William County Manassas Park and the city of Manassas and and the other three jurisdictions have the same language in there so I felt comfortable in that circumstance adding it uncomfortable that it was not going to be used to

[02:21:50] justify any additional or greater charges than what we're already seeing one one statement to add to that in in actuality what this would do is if you had a new industrial user or ones that are existing this is more encompassed around ensuring that costs that are carried directly related to stay with where they're directly related to so that you don't have increases that land on the typical customer.

[02:22:25] So this is really more of a method for capturing, and the system exists within the city right now from the perspective of, hey, I'm going to turn in this building permit review, right? So this is more of them trying to establish a method and a situation for that where there's never been anything in place there and all fees, work, hours from staff goes right into everyone's bills.

[02:22:52] This would actually be a method that might, in very small amount, segregate those costs, but ensures that they don't carry by the typical utility customer. Thank you, Madam Mayor. The last thing I want to say, because I don't know if you heard it, but when I attended Wisconsin, they were talking about our representatives. And him being our co-chair, I want to command him because we have good representatives. And when you have a limited number of people representing the city, especially in a regional space, it's important that we send the best qualified.

[02:23:31] And Mr. Appointments Committee Chairman, you know, great job, and, you know, I'm really happy to see that, you know, not only they are capable, they do a good job, but they are also, you know, making a difference for everybody.

[02:23:49] Mr. Smith. Just some very minor. Stephen, I talked earlier. I promise you I've read this at least three times. The two comments I had was in the very beginning, and I'm fine with the entire document. One is more of a request, and that is when you first introduce public transit treatment work.

[02:24:13] If we could just put a name there to show that's what that means. Because from that point, we used the acronym. The other one is, actually, as people tend to misuse the word game changer, this literally is a sentence changer.

[02:24:32] And that is where you list the objectives, it says objections. We don't want to do that. On the first page, on the first page. Yes, sir. Those are easily remedied. Thank you. Thank you, Mary.

[02:25:00] Morning, Jim. It's the 1.7 MCPS graduation participation. We talked about this at the joint meeting with the school board. Wanted to get a head nod road going forward, not on it. I think Ms. Vasquez-Luna had brought it to the council, so we didn't.

[02:25:17] I was not clear on where we were with it, so I asked for it to be put back on so that everyone knew where everybody stood. So it is a request for, I think both sides, but I know you had wanted counsel to process in at graduation and sit on the stage as well.

[02:25:35] So if we had four members that agree, or three others that agree with Ms. Vasquez-Luna to do this, that's before you right now. So any questions, thoughts, head nods? Yes, ma'am. What's that about the video? Oh, yeah, that was an idea from Steve.

[02:25:52] Yeah, Dr. Newman and I had a discussion that if there wasn't a desire on the part of council to participate in the procession, if there was a desire on the part of council to do a congratulatory video, that would be broadcast at the graduation.

[02:26:13] Dr. Newman said that that would also be an option that both he and the school board would most likely be willing to facilitate if that was the desire of council. he said either way if y'all want to proceed with the procession they would they would take that back to work or if alternatively council wanted to simply do a graduatory video that would also be an option that he would be happy to take forward yeah does the school board process in Not currently.

[02:26:47] No, but it's only me and Suzanne. You and Suzanne. And Dr. Noonan. No, Suhas, Michelle, and our senator from... Like that all could sit up on stage, so...

[02:27:07] Other localities, I don't know. Other localities do have school board and have four, three others to say yes to counsel.

[02:27:28] Yes, Alice. So the schools, they will decide. I have a comment that's really kind of different from this, but, you know, if we're trying to, I mean, I think it's good that we can recognize, see what they come up with.

[02:27:54] When does the school board participate with some of the city events, like the parades and things like that? Because I don't think they are a part, are they? They are definitely the Christmas parade, but all the other ones, Veterans, St. Patrick's, they are invited.

[02:28:26] Okay, is that definite? You have to talk to the organizers there. I just know the Christmas parade. I'll reach out to the organizers. I don't know. I thought I heard you were not.

[02:28:44] Again, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if my information is correct, so You have to take the initiative. Because some have actually walked with us.

[02:29:08] Well, my concern with both, actually, the video also is, again, being respectful and mindful that they're under a very tight time frame which they don't have control of. I just would not like to be a part of anything that's going to extend

[02:29:30] on that program. It doesn't seem like we have three more people. Last item, continuing forward with the impact of D.C., Diane will provide y'all an update on the status of our 0.25 annual update.

[02:29:59] So in the next couple of weeks, we are going to be completing the annual audit for FY25 and preparing the financial statements that we issue, which we refer to as the ACFER, the annual comprehensive financial statements.

[02:30:20] And the auditors are set to present everything to you on December 8th. In addition to our audit and our ACFER, we also have what's called a single audit and a CFA. SIFA stands for Schedule of Expenditures of Federal Awards, and the single audit is required for any non-federal entity that spends $750,000 or more in federal funding in any given fiscal year, which typically and currently we do.

[02:30:49] So the federal government typically issues guidance to auditors all over the country, not just ours, to auditors on how to audit their funds. so they have not done that as of yet typically that comes out in August it has not come out yet so there is possibly going to be a delay in the portion of the audit that is called the single audit and the schedule that is called the CFA so when you hear from the auditors on the 8th you may hear our opinion is clean black late whatever their opinion is going to be but does

[02:31:25] not include and is not final because of the federal expenditure audit piece not huge deal huge deal it just may not be that piece may not be completed and will have to be issued as a supplement to our financial statements and sent around presented we're not sure how that will have to occur yet at a later date not a huge deal just sort of not great I mean a little annoying yeah no there's nothing we can do about it our auditors are hopeful which I'm not sure why because it is December I mean November 17th and we're really trying to wrap this up but they are still

[02:32:03] holding out hope for that but not a big deal just wanted to brief you in case you hear this opinion is still ongoing or something yeah that's all are there any questions but that will happen oh everyone yeah yeah it's out of our control it's out of our and I'm actually shocked that We're not hearing more rumblings about it.

[02:32:37] Keep in mind, a lot of people don't complete their audit on time. So we are on time. So they may not care because not everyone is on time. But that's just the update I have. Hopefully it's different on the 8th.

[02:32:52] If not, your regular expenditures will still be presented and audited. Thank you. City Manager? Just letting you and our residents know that the work at Wellington crossing is causing some traffic issues if you typically go that way please allow for additional time to travel through the city unfortunately well fortunately Norfolk and Southern is doing the work unfortunately it is instructing traffic it is anticipated to be completed Wednesday

[02:33:27] possibly Thursday but we're hopeful it'll be done on Wednesday so after that you should have a much cleaner crossing on Wellington and traffic will get back to normal. That's all I have now. Thank you.

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