Coraggio Consulting
Prince William Board of County Supervisors Meeting, Tuesday, December 5, 2023

Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2023
Place: Prince William County Board of County Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 4h 38m (video)
Official meeting video (Prince William County, Granicus): https://pwcgov.granicus.com/player/clip/3403
Official Board of County Supervisors page (Prince William County): https://www.pwcva.gov/department/board-county-supervisors

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-11-02. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:29:11] Good afternoon. It is a little after 2 p.m. on Tuesday, December 5th. For those who wish, please join me in a moment of silence. If we could all rise for the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance.

[00:29:31] The public for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. So we are now on to, very quickly, on to commendations, which is item 3A.

[00:29:57] We are starting without Supervisor Bode and Vice Chair Bode and Supervisor Lawson, but they will be joining us, so just running a little bit late. If I could get a motion on 3A, please. So moved, Madam Chair. Second. Motion made by Supervisor Bailey, seconded by Supervisor Angry.

[00:30:13] Any discussion? Seeing none, please vote. Vote unanimous. Supervisor Vega abstaining from vote.

[00:30:28] Supervisor Bode and Lawson absent from vote. And the Consular General of El Salvador, General Rudy Chavez, couldn't be with us today, but with us today are three people I'll introduce when I get down to the podium, as well as Supervisor Vega is going to join me

[00:30:48] at the podium also. Yes, and if you can come up with us today is Auriela Mejia, who is with the office of Senator, U.S. Senator Tim Kaine. We have City of Manassas Councilwoman Sonia

[00:31:22] Vasquez Luna and City of Manassas Park Councilwoman Yesi Amaya. So if you want to, if you're right here you'll be in the on the camera when i'm reading so now of course we have supervisor vega who is also of el salvadorian descent the consulate general of el salvador whereas the prince william board of county supervisors is dedicated to acknowledging the positive contributions of organizations and entities that enhance the cultural fabric and posterity of prosperity of our community and whereas the consulate of el salvador and woodbridge has been an invaluable presence in our community, fostering understanding, cooperation, and goodwill among residents,

[00:32:02] many of whom have ties to El Salvador. And whereas the Consulate of El Salvador plays a vital role in promoting cultural exchange, building bridges between our diverse communities, and enhancing the overall quality of life for our residents, and whereas we're delighted to extend our heartfelt congratulations to the Consulate of El Salvador on the occasion of their new building within Prince William county which stands as a testament to their commitment to excellence and service now therefore be it resolved that the principally and board of county supervisors hereby commence the consul of el salvador for its outstanding contributions to our community and extends warm congratulations on

[00:32:37] the inauguration of its new building this weekend this coming weekend thank you thank you so much for making time the salvadorian and supervisors and also county executive i appreciate the time The Salvadorian Americans, we all are, and in this area continues to grow.

[00:33:02] So for us, this commendation is very important. The new leadership, the president from El Salvador sent here, they are looking forward to making a community that is bigger and enhance the participation of the Salvadorian American community in the county and in the three series, and they represent all of Virginia.

[00:33:23] So thank you so much.

[00:33:24] Hey, we are now on to, and welcome to Supervisor Lawson and Vice Chair Bodie.

[00:34:28] We are now on to the consent agenda today, which consists of three items. Are there any items anyone wishes to remove from the consent agenda because they have specific questions or concerns that haven't been able to be answered before today? Madam Chair. Supervisor Bailey.

[00:34:45] Yes, I'd like to pull item 4C, please. Seeing no further request to pull anything, if I could get a motion on 4A and 4B. So moved, Madam Chair. Second. Motion made by Supervisor Bailey, seconded by Vice Chair Bowdy.

[00:35:01] Any further discussion? Seeing none, please vote. Vote unanimous. And that moves us on to 4C, Supervisor Bailey.

[00:35:19] Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, just briefly, I wanted to make sure that the community members in Potomac District as well as the county understood that this item will help to increase the level of emergency response to services in the Triangle and Potomac District and Potomac Shores area.

[00:35:37] It's been needed for quite some time, over maybe seven to ten years. So this is, by bringing this new cell tower, it will help and assist in that and the response time. So with that, I move this item forward for approval. Second. Motion made on 4C by Supervisor Bailey.

[00:35:54] Second by Vice Chair Bodie. Any further discussion? Supervisor Lawson. Thank you. Supervisor Bailey, this is just to authorize the public hearing, correct? Yes. Okay.

[00:36:10] Because you're talking as if this is board approval. this is just I'm talking just so that the community will know what this is for okay so when is the board does it say when the board hearing no it would be next year I assume okay just want to make sure I wasn't confusing your comments no I think I was clear I mean are you are you alright whatever are you I need to repeat it for you you okay yeah okay good it's just it's just to

[00:36:39] authorize the public hearing seeing no further discussion please vote vote unanimous we are now on to public comment time um please note that public comment time is for items not on uh the agenda under other public hearings so um comments on other cases this evening that will be heard during public comment time will not take comments uh today please speak during the public hearing on those items each speaker will have three minutes to share their views and opinions regarding

[00:37:17] matters before the board we ask that all speakers state their name their magisterial district or generally where they reside at the beginning of their remarks we will close enclose the in-person sign-up list after the first 15 minutes. And we currently have five people signed up to speak.

[00:37:35] I will call them up five at a time. Our first, our five speakers are Patty Kuntz, Chris Brown, Laura Mahoney, Larry, J-A-N-N-E-S, and Teresa Mintz, if you want to line up in the back of the room. Thank you. Please proceed. Good afternoon. My name is Patty Kuntz, and I'm from the Gainesville district, we've heard many speeches about the Manassas battlefield being hallowed ground,

[00:38:09] and it certainly is. But as a former teacher and a lover of history, I feel the need to point out some of the misconceptions speakers have made. We have heard that the battle had been brother fighting against brother, which definitely could have happened. But it was also said more than once that Americans were fighting against fellow Americans. I would like to say at that time in history, that statement is categorically false. There were brave Americans there fighting to defend the United States of America. However, their foes at the times were not Americans. They were

[00:38:44] Confederates. They seceded from the U.S., wrote their own constitution that legally protected slavery, elected Jefferson Davis as their president, and created their own flag. They were the very definition of traitors. Now, there were real heroes during those two battles fought there.

[00:39:02] Those were the brave Americans fighting for the preservation of our union. General Robert E. Lee understood that being in the Confederate States of America would mean he was a traitor. And he struggled greatly making the decision to lead the insurrectionist.

[00:39:19] But in the end, he chose Virginia over his country. At the end of the war, Lee was deeply troubled over his choice, and he never returned to his plantation in Arlington, Virginia. Congress then purchased the land from him, and they created Arlington National Cemetery.

[00:39:35] His house still overlooks the cemetery today. He, however, is not buried there. When he died five years later, he gave strict instructions he was not to be buried on that land, nor was he to be dressed in his uniform or have a flag draped on his coffin.

[00:39:52] He was quietly buried in the chapel in today's Washington Lee University. When asked whether Confederate generals should be memorialized, he stated, I think it is wiser not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feeling of being engendered. Truly, he struggled to the end of his days because I do believe, and because I do believe in a forgiving God. I'm sure when he looked down and saw Confederate statues being erected in

[00:40:27] the Jim Crow area and schools being named after Confederate generals, he was deeply saddened. No trader is a hero or should have a statue. I'm saying this because I do believe the battlefield is hallowed ground and needs to be preserved throughout the centuries.

[00:40:44] When it was made a national park in 1940, it was solidified that it would always be that. Nothing is entering its borders. It is an important part of our history, and many times the best lessons happen when we learn from our mistakes. But to do that, it is critical to remember the actual facts that really happened there.

[00:41:05] Thank you. Next speaker, please. Our next speaker is Chris Brown. If you're welcome to line up in the back, Chris Brown, Laura Mahoney, Larry Giannis, and Theresa Minns. Yes, good afternoon. Chris Brown, Gainesville District.

[00:41:22] I'm here to express my opposition to the Digital Gateway, which will come up for a vote very soon, principally for several reasons. There's an inherent value in the forest, and we're taking down too much of it in Prince William County.

[00:41:41] If you drive along Wellington Road, you'll see lots of forest that has been removed in anticipation of future data centers. There is a very good special on Frontline that talks about the forest and how it affects the watershed.

[00:42:05] It looks at, it's called Poisonous Waters, it's Frontline. It's from about 13 years ago. The correspondent is Hendrick Smith, and he looks at the Chesapeake Bay watershed and how we're replacing soft surfaces with hard surfaces, roads, parking lots, data centers, all development, and that when it rains, the forest provides a filter, and when the rain hits a hard surface, it just washes down into the street and out into eventually the Potomac River and Chesapeake Bay, and that's part of the reason the bay is dying.

[00:42:44] So I would like the board to consider this when they do vote on this, that all the data centers proposed are in forested areas. And, you know, they're unsightly, yes, and the utility lines that make these centers possible are exploding all over the western part of the county.

[00:43:08] I live in a building right across from where they're building a data center now. 103 acres this time last year, now it's just dirt, and they're starting to build a campus of six centers. And there's noise, there's construction noise, and there's traffic.

[00:43:24] But I know that's temporary. But I think we would be well to pause and approve data centers only if they're replacing, say, a shopping mall or another hard surface. Because it's very important. We have to protect the habitat, the animals, the insects.

[00:43:44] They all serve a purpose in the ecosystem. And I think it's very important that you consider that next week when you, if you approve, when you consider this next week. And I thank you for your time. Thank you.

[00:43:59] Next speaker, please. Elmo, please. And please speak at the microphone. May I use the Elmo, please?

[00:44:20] Laura Mahoney, Brunsville District. The board has made a decision March 2020 to approve Dublin property for 516 homes. The community took that decision and moved on. Actually, we did more than that. we pleaded with the board to leave the land zoned residential because the houses were welcome, especially during the housing shortage we were in.

[00:44:42] Yet the board majority made a reckless and irresponsible decision on November 29th to approve Devlin Technology Park, despite overwhelming community opposition. So, Supervisor Bodie, I believe you have it backwards when you say the residents of Brunsville are anti-housing.

[00:45:01] It is the board majority that is anti-housing when you choose to change zoning on land that is residential already and approve housing instead of change it to light industrial with hyperscale data centers next on it. And since the remainder of the board majority, Chair Wheeler, Supervisor Franklin, Supervisor Bailey, and Supervisor Angry doesn't have anything to say to the press or the public and always vote in a block, we will assume you casted a vindictive vote against the residents of Brunsville just the same as Supervisor Bodie. This goes to show you

[00:45:37] that the board majority is revengeful towards the residents in the Brentsville District for voicing an opinion 11 years ago. This board majority only values temporary jobs and campaign donations made by the labor unions and Stanley Martin more than the residents they were sworn to protect. And on display here you can see Supervisor Bailey sitting with a lot of land developers, data center developers, real estate people. Devlin will no doubtably affect the quality of lives for thousands of residents who live in the abutting and adjacent communities and the children who reside in those surrounding neighborhoods and attend Chris Young Elementary

[00:46:17] School and Bristow Montessori School. We demand the board majority reverse course and correct their egregious mistake by utilizing the board's rules of procedures to reconsider a motion and deny Devlin during today's meeting. If not, well, the next time Devlin is brought up may be in a courtroom. Thank you, Supervisor Lawson, Supervisor Weir, and Supervisor Vega for your service and saying no to Dublin. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good afternoon. My name is Larry Janice.

[00:46:55] I'm one of the owners of Lake Ridge Auto Care in the Occoquan District. Just very briefly, I was here for the VDOT approval of the road improvements to the Prince William County Parkway and Old bridge road and i'm sorry so are you talking about the thing that's on the public hearing later on i don't know if i signed up in the wrong place now can you speak during the public hearing please okay that would be better we don't allow that during public comment on i'm trying to be consistent my apologies thank you we'll make sure you get signed up for the public hearing in a while thank

[00:47:28] you next speaker please three cements potomac district i want to thank law enforcement and first responders for all they do and i want to say if you vote democrat and you go to church it's time to change your church to the church of satan because that's what the democrat party represents the church uh excuse me supervisor bailey could you please pay attention to me

[00:48:02] instead of talking to your cohorts over there i know i don't matter i am in your district and i do recommend people do not come and retire here in prince william county in fact try to avoid Virginia altogether because like I said the Democrat party is the party of Satan and I'm not making it up and they're very disrespectful unless they have their pet projects going on and don't be looking at me I have a right to speak what I believe and I want to thank all the people that

[00:48:39] stayed late the other night and called you people out saying you had no cojones no balls I miss because it's true. And Supervisor Bailey, not Bailey, Bodie, pray that your daughter is not in harm's way because of the way our society has gone. We're so corrupt. This is the party of

[00:49:09] the devil. Yes, I can't begin to say enough. Oh, taxes. You raise our taxes. You put in pet projects. I wonder what kickbacks you're getting. And I wonder how many of you Like, excuse me, Supervisor Bailey and Supervisor Angry.

[00:49:38] Are your spouses on disability, military disability, and getting tax breaks? I hope not, because you don't deserve it when you give yourself a 70% raise.

[00:49:54] Yes, pay attention to what I'm saying. Many people get a tax break because of injuries in the military and stuff. That's fine and dandy, but when their spouses go and rob the people of Prince William County, no, it's not right.

[00:50:14] And once again, the Democrat Party is the party of Satan, and I will keep it there. Yes, Satan, okay? Nothing you do is honorable. Well, I still have a little time, and all I can say, oh, and as for you, Chair Wheeler, Do not be saying, I will pray for you, because if anyone is of Satan, yeah, one of the constituents, you said, I will pray for you.

[00:50:43] I'm sorry. You're out of time. That will conclude our in-person public comment time for today. Ms. Madden, do we have anyone online at this time for, okay. I will turn it over to Vice Chair Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Mann, shall we begin?

[00:51:06] Oh, yeah, yeah. Mr. Kashmiric, you may begin.

[00:51:17] Mike Gatchimara, Karen John Gainesville. I'm totally opposed to the board approving any data centers during this lame duck period. A rush vote will only be a complete surrender to the developers in the data center industry. You have not negotiated the best deal for the county, and it cannot be done in these last meetings. You will be surrendering all future county authority to regulate data centers. Give the new board a chance to lead on this issue.

[00:51:47] The voters spoke very clearly during the primary. They wanted new leadership. In the general election, the voters spoke again, wanting new leadership. The Democratic majority on this board needs to listen to the voters. Give DeShondra Jefferson a chance to lead Prince William County in a new direction.

[00:52:05] Democrats, I know you won your individual districts, but so did DeShondra. She may have even done a little bit better than you did in your district. She wanted to restrain data center growth, but you wanted more data centers. The voters sent a mixed message, except they made clear they wanted Democrats to decide this issue.

[00:52:22] Give the new board a chance. Also, I want to point out the major difference between a yes or a no vote on this issue. A yes vote is irreversible. The land will be purchased. Developers will clear the land of trees and start building. Even if the court later reverses your decision, you cannot reverse the damage done.

[00:52:44] A no vote only means a delay. The developers only have to re-propose and they can start the process again with a better plan. I am asking for a no vote to give Prince William County more time to negotiate a better deal for environmental and for helping nearby residents.

[00:53:05] Get the regulations in place before you consider any new data center approvals. Once approved, you lose all leverage to get necessary regulations. You do not have the experts or the staff required to evaluate such a massive project.

[00:53:21] You have no idea if you can monitor or enforce any concessions made by these developers. I'm very disappointed in the Democratic Supervisor for refusing to hear from the voters and give the new board a chance. You're rushing to give away all future county authority.

[00:53:40] You want to lock in all future boards to the worst possible decision that could be made. you want to sabotage the future supervisor bode i am most disappointed in you we discussed this option no no for now only means more time to get a better deal it does not kill any project but gives prince william county more time to get the experts and staff to really evaluate the proposal you're not a lame duck if you believe it is a good decision now you should be able to convince a new board members in a few months to support it take the time get it done right this

[00:54:17] is not good government. This is not what I worked so hard for to get Democrats elected. Please respect the voters. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kashmir. Do you have anyone else for this afternoon's public comment time? No, not at this time. Thank you so much, Ms. Mann. Back to you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Vice Chair Bodie, and thank you, Ms. Mann. As always, that moves on to the public hearings for the budget amendments, not the land, not the land use, but the budget amendments. We are now on to the budget amendment public hearings. There are no presentations associated with these items so this will open the public hearings oh yes sorry um supervisor angry

[00:54:56] then vice chair bode thank you madam chair madam chair before the board discusses and votes on agenda items 6b and 6c involving the budget and appropriations of funds for the schools i need to declare a personal interest in this matter my wife is a special education instructional aid with the schools as a school employee my wife and i are members of a group which is affected by this matter i will be participating in it because i am able to do so fairly objectively and in the public interest thank you madam chair thank you supervisor angry vice chair bode thank you madam chair this will sound very similar madam chair before the board discusses and votes on agenda items 6b and 6c involving the budget and appropriation of funds for the schools i need

[00:55:36] to declare a personal interest in this matter my wife is a school employee as a school employee my wife and i are members of a group which is affected by this matter are we participating in because I am able to do so fairly, objectively, in the public interest. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Thank you, both of you.

[00:55:53] It's a presentation that's associated with these items, so this will officially open the public hearings on items 6A through 6E, budget amendments. Ms. Madden, do we have anyone signed up for 6A through 6E? No. Is there anyone online that we know of?

[00:56:13] Okay. Is there anyone in chambers who wishes to speak on 6A through 6E? Please approach the microphone in the back. Please state your name and generally where you live in the county, and you will have three minutes. Three Cements, Potomac District.

[00:56:30] I do not believe Supervisor Bodie or Supervisor Angry can be objective to anything concerning this because I've seen them in action.

[00:56:46] Their actions are not honorable. They're self-serving. So, no, I don't think they can be objective to anything that is self-serving. Thank you for your time. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak to 6A through 6E?

[00:57:03] Please approach the microphone in the back. Seeing no one approach the microphone in the back, this will officially close the public hearings on items 6A through 6E. Do any, before we vote, do any board members have any questions on the public hearing items 6A through 6E?

[00:57:24] Seeing no one speak, I will entertain a motion for 6A through 6E. So moved, Madam Chair. Second. Motion made by Supervisor Bailey, seconded by Supervisor Franklin. any discussion supervisor franklin sure just want to highlight that a portion of these funds will go towards um ada parking improvements um at neapsco boardwalk so thank you on that note i will chime in that some of these funds will go to a new um opening gate at the bmx track behind the mccourt

[00:58:03] center for next year seeing no further discussion please vote vote unanimous okay we will now continue our public hearings with our next two items 7a uh is a resolution to authorize quick claim of an easement on sheridan lane right of way and 7b a resolution to endorse the final design of the prince william parkway at old bridge road intersection improvements project number

[00:58:34] 0294-06-327-076 ms madden do we have anyone signed up to speak and it was larry janice who wanted to speak on this i will put your name at the bottom okay very good okay everyone will have five three minutes to speak on this item i will call the first five and then the second two after that please state your name and generally where you live in the county at the beginning of your

[00:59:09] marks our first five speakers are martin jeter sharon harvey delton nichols jack kayumjin and clancy mcquigg can i have the overhead please mr jeter could you move the microphone up can i have the overhead please thank you okay good afternoon chair wheeler and members of the board my name

[00:59:49] is martin jeter i live in the aquan district and i'm the president of the mid-county civic association and i would like to extend the time if i could please and you're on behalf of midco yes ma'am yes so civic organization hoa or a 501c3 five minutes thank you all the above two of the above okay so we presented this proposed design not this proposed design but the one that's on year docket today at various MEDCO meetings over the past year or so. We've heard from almost universal disapproval of the design from the community based on various inequities that I'll detail in a moment. We met with and communicated those concerns to the county staff, but so far

[01:00:26] the design has not been changed to address these issues. So this is just what the intersection looks like now. And we're looking at this area right in here where the Touchstone Circle main access is to both the eastern area and the western area of this shopping center.

[01:00:43] And as you probably already know, this is basically what the new design looks like. And there's a couple of, a number of things have been introduced by this new design due to the fact that they have reduced touchstone circle from a full access to right in, right out, limited access.

[01:01:07] This is a rare instance where an intersection redesign actually reduces access to a shopping center complex. So the elimination of touchstone circle access for westbound parkway drivers, in other words, those coming this direction, means that they have a couple different options now to get to the western part of the shopping center.

[01:01:26] They can make a right turn on Old Bridge and make a left turn into the Merchant Plaza here, into the parking lot, and if they do that, that'll put them into the area in front of the shopping center here, or in front of the McDonald's and other businesses here.

[01:01:42] There's a grocery store and ABC store and Panera here. They'd be funneled in front of that. Or they can make a U-turn here at Troop Street and come back down here and either access Seton Square here or Touchstone Circle. And those two things are also problematic because the Touchstone Circle access, the first left you can make into this business area would be between these two buildings, which is Lake Ridge Auto Care here and the gas station here.

[01:02:09] If they continue down here to the Seton Square access, that puts them onto a private road. And just to give you an idea of what that looks like, it puts them onto a private road, which is Seton Square here, gas station, Lakers Auto Care.

[01:02:25] The only entrance in and out of the shop is right here on Seton Square. People park along here to get inspections during the day. So that has its own issues. So another option for drivers that are going westbound would be to continue through the light to Seton Square and make that turn, which involves those problems I just mentioned.

[01:02:47] For eastbound drivers, the elimination of touchstone access means that you would make a U-turn here to come back to Seton Square to access this western area. That involves the problems we just talked about with Seton Square.

[01:03:03] If you continued, made a left on Old Bridge and went to Troop Street and either made a U-turn or a left turn, that involves the other issues we just talked about, not to mention the fact that we are inducing more U-turns, both at Troop Street and at the main intersection here at Old Bridge, which is never a great idea for an intersection.

[01:03:21] Now, the latest addition to the plan, which you see in red here, is a left turn lane, unsignalized, that would go into this parking lot here where the daycare center is and other businesses. Two problems with that. One is the stacking here. There's only about three or four, maybe five car stacking area here.

[01:03:40] And during heavy traffic times, that's unsignalized. You'd be waiting there for a while to turn and traffic would back up into these travel lanes. The other thing is this left turn into the parking lot routes people in front of the daycare center. And all of these areas where you're routing people through a pedestrian area where they're going to stores and all is just not a good idea.

[01:04:00] It's not a positive thing. So another thing that this intersection eliminates is the continuous right lane here that allows you to avoid a traffic light and keep going on the parkway. It signalizes all three of the lanes.

[01:04:16] It does straighten out this part of the parkway, but in my opinion, people we've talked to through Midco and so forth, a possibility would be to add two continuous right lanes unsignalized instead of one here and avoid the rest of this, and that would improve the traffic on the parkway and avoid backups you see in this right-turn lane here.

[01:04:36] The reason for this intersection redesign was a STAR study. It was done by the previous Aquan District Supervisor to reduce traffic on Old Bridge Road and smooth the flow of traffic on Old Bridge. But it's not clear how this redesign really does that, but it does result in these deficiencies I just mentioned.

[01:04:53] So I would ask that you please don't endorse any design that doesn't address these deficiencies and safety issues. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. And if people could line up in the back, the first five speakers are Martin Jeter, Sharon Harvey, Delton Nichols, Jack Kuyumjian, and Clancy McQuig.

[01:05:10] Good afternoon. My name is Sharon Harvey. I'm in Kohl's District. I'm hoping that you understand how much Martin Jeter has researched and asked the community and held meetings to get the information that he shared with you today, which is plain common sense and a real look at the design.

[01:05:44] It's not just a design of just any interchange in any part of the state of Virginia. It has to be specific to our situation. There's a community that lives there already that goes down the road down to Lake Ridge, which they won't be able to do very well, that goes into the child care center, which they won't be able to do very well anymore, and that wants to live in that community.

[01:06:16] You are crossing out the ways that they've known all these years to get to their stores, their dry cleaners, their restaurants, their shopping center. So I'm asking you to appreciate what Martin has presented to you.

[01:06:35] This just isn't a fly-by-night thing. They have taken a lot of time and have gotten a lot of input from the community about this. So if you'd like to see this, you can go on to a site called MIDCO and check it out.

[01:06:56] Attend the meetings. Listen, this is really valuable. So thank you very much. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good afternoon, Supervisors. I'm Delta Nichols. I live in Midtown at Occoquan District.

[01:07:12] live on Charles Lacey Drive. Quite a few people in my community shop in Merchant Plaza and work in D.C. As the president of the HOA, I request five minutes, though I probably won't need it. So I ask that you please do not approve the old bridge, Prince William, County Parkway intersection redesign is currently proposed because it is problematic in a number of ways that are being pointed out to you as we speak. The current proposal will result in traffic cut-throughs

[01:07:48] through surrounding neighborhood streets and cause drivers to make dangerous U-turns, and it would impede commerce by making it frustratingly difficult for shoppers, customers who live west of the intersection to access the stores and businesses in Glen Shopping Center and Merchant Plaza. The proposed redesign is not economically smart because it does not make it easy and convenient for shoppers to patronize that shopping center. It would make it very difficult and would

[01:08:26] likely cause store owners to lose customers and the county to possibly lose tax revenue. Plus, the proposed redesign does nothing to address the westbound traffic on old bridge i can personally tell you that when i worked in the district of columbia for 20 years and drove each day when coming home to prince william county i couldn't wait until i got to 123 so that i could get the heck off of i-85 and on to old bridge in order to avoid that massive traffic backup

[01:09:04] in the southbound lanes of I-95 at the Occoquan River, which still has not been resolved, though there is now another lane. And I can also tell you from experience that taking the Prince William County Parkway east all the way to I-95 northbound, when going to work, presented some of the heaviest backup traffic on I-95 and on Prince William County Parkway heading east.

[01:09:34] If you want to improve the traffic on Old Bridge, I urge you to realize that the Old Bridge intersection is not the problem. The real problem lies further downstream, which is I-95. A futile attempt to divert eastbound parkway traffic away from eastbound Old Bridge would only increase the traffic through Lake Ridge neighborhoods and Menneville Road at Old Bridge.

[01:10:00] Because the same people that you are trying to push away from eastbound Old Bridge would merely make a left turn on Elm Farm or Miniville and get right back on Old Bridge at the intersection of Miniville and Old Bridge.

[01:10:18] So the eastbound Prince William County Parkway and I-95 already, that intersection already has Prince William County Parkway eastbound traffic stacked up to get on I-95 north.

[01:10:34] Do you really want to make it worse? If you approve the current proposed Old Bridge and Prince William County Parkway intersection redesign, you will impede comers, disenfranchised merchant palaces, shoppers, and the businesses that they want to patronize, and you will create a choke point further downstream in Prince William County, which would further frustrate drivers.

[01:11:01] Prince William County drivers are aggressive drivers who already run red lights and speed like other Northern Virginia drivers. That money would be better spent on increasing the number of police. Many are driving while frustrated, DWF.

[01:11:19] Please do not increase the DWF driving in Prince William County. Our drivers are not humble sheep that you can herd. A significant percentage of them are aggressive drivers, and you should try to make it more convenient for them and as shoppers and as business owners and as people who are driving to D.C. and back in other places in northern Virginia and bringing revenue back here in Prince William County through their property tax and other tax base.

[01:11:54] Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Madam Chair, members of the board, and Jack Kuryumjin, president of LOCA, I would like five minutes. I don't know that I need that, but just in case. Yes. From a big-picture perspective, 50,000-foot view, reorienting the parkway to have more smooth flow is a good idea.

[01:12:23] Orienting the traffic not to have cut through on Old Bridge Road was a genesis of an idea from a previous supervisor's think tank that were trying to improve the situation on the Old Bridge corridor.

[01:12:40] And so that was a laudable goal. But as I see it, with this new intersection design, having discussed it, I've attended the MIDCO meetings, which I found most informative, but also we've discussed it in LOCA, and there were, it raises more questions than answers because we got a lot of questions about unintended consequences of the new design proposals. Now, I have to say the recent meetings that Prince William DOT has had with the owners, the Saul Centers and Mr. Garcia on the office park and others

[01:13:17] may have provided some adjustments, and so if they were in their presentations to explain those nuances, that would be very helpful, because as we see it, the overall big picture look at this is we have hampered the access on the western end, the touchstone circle side, to the Merchant Plaza and the office park.

[01:13:47] We've created a situation that encourages U-turns for the eastbound traffic that will now stack up in an area, for instance, near Lake Ridge Auto, where people line up for inspections.

[01:14:05] It's a narrow area. I've traveled there. I've gone to the recycle bin and such, like most citizens do. But those are confined spaces that work pretty well right now. But with the reconfigured intersection, I think it would become very problematic.

[01:14:24] If you just go into Merchant Plaza where you have McDonald's, Chipotle, and Meza, the road right there comes to a right-angle entrance that the visibility is not very good.

[01:14:39] And so we would see more accidents likely internal to the shopping center because of the increased traffic within the center. These are all unintended consequences of trying to adjust the flow to reduce cut through to Old Bridge Road and such.

[01:14:57] But the idea of smoothing out the parkway is a commendable idea. But on the Ridgewood Center side, we do have a religious institution that is likely to go in next to Ridgewood Center, and that is right in the confluence of all this busyness of the intersection redesign, and that needs to be looked at very carefully.

[01:15:25] I will say that the Prince William DOT people have done their best to make that flow pretty well. But if that religious institution increases size, which it likely would, right now I think it was like 387 or 357 prayer mass, but they could go up.

[01:15:45] And if that's the case, those turning movements in there that when Paolo or the staff gets to show you that, there's going to be problematic situations created that would increase accidents as a result of some of those movements.

[01:16:05] So we don't feel comfortable with where we're going. So when all is said and done, I'd have to say I would rather leave things, just representing the local health consensus and a community consensus, we'd rather leave things as they are until we really work out all those unintended consequences to be more comfortable to the community.

[01:16:31] So with that, I thank you for providing that feedback. I hope it's helpful in your decision making. Thank you. Thank you very much. And before our next speaker, I'll call up the other two that are signed up, Carol Vaughn and Larry Janis. Please proceed.

[01:16:49] Okay. I'm Clancy McQuig from the Lake Ridge Arcaquan Civic Association. And I would like to point out how much citizen involvement you're seeing today with so little information. One of the things that has bothered me about road design where you're asking for public participation is you never release the vehicle per day projections.

[01:17:12] So there's no way that anybody can make an intelligent, informed decision about what they like or don't like about a particular project. I would like to see the board adopt and PWDOT adopt a resolution that on any road design you want to play with, first, do no harm.

[01:17:35] If you look around the country, there's a lot of places like San Francisco, Washington, D.C., where they can't build roads anymore. and they haven't built roads for 50 years because the DOTs at the time did what they wanted to do and ran roughshod over the people.

[01:17:50] People don't really like being run roughshod over, as you're well aware. So I would suggest that this project be taken back and looked at seriously with vehicle per day projections so people can, you especially, can say, Does it make any sense that we're going to put this many vehicles in this particular intersection going this particular way?

[01:18:16] You can't do it now with the information you have, and neither can we as citizens when we're trying to look at it. This has been a major aggravation we've had with PWDOT for years now, and they keep treating vehicle per day projections as top-secret information not available to the peasants who live in Prince William County.

[01:18:39] I really don't like being treated like a peasant, and I'm sure you don't either, but you are. We really need to know what the impact is, and we don't know what the impact is. I agree with Martin. He showed holes in the design.

[01:18:57] Jack did a good job of showing what he thinks are holes in the design, but we don't have enough information to say what the alternatives might be. I would ask the Board of Supervisors respectfully to tell them to go back to the drawing boards and resolve these issues before they come and ask for $33 million from the Prince William County citizenship to do something that will make it worse. Let's not use roads to destroy our businesses.

[01:19:28] The happy car theory of life is not a good theory of life. We need to preserve our existing infrastructure and our existing businesses and not make roads the way to hell for all of Prince County residents. I still want to shop at the Glen, but I don't want to go into this intersection and try to find my way in, much less my way out, as well as you heard from the president of the Civic Association at the end down there. This is going to hurt them more than it's going to hurt us, but it's going to hurt the Glen commercial business significantly. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:20:06] next speaker, please. Craig Bauman. I'm, I guess, one of the peasants in Prince William County. I'm just a resident over off of Great Bridge Road. I really wasn't paying attention to this issue. I saw emails. I saw signs. I thought I'd come on over today and see what's going on. And all I can say is, wow, there's a lot of opposition to this, to this, quote, improvement. And I really think unless it's a fait accompli that I don't know about behind the scenes,

[01:20:46] you all better take a really close look at it because I don't think the people who live here want it. And I was looking at the design out there, and I don't see how it's an improvement overall. It's an improvement for some directions, but not all directions.

[01:21:04] So until it's going to help everybody, I don't think we should hurt anybody. So the way it's set up now, I used to commute down that road for 15 years and around the intersection I was here when they were making it bigger than it is now.

[01:21:21] And it seems to flow fine. Obviously, during rush hour, it's rush hour. It's going to be a little more congested. But I did like that comment from the gentleman about let's not bring an I-95 problem here.

[01:21:38] That's the stupidest design over there to begin with. where they narrowed the road down on the bridge. And, of course, we're going to have to all slow down without that lane. So don't make it worse. I hear a lot of opposition, and I'm just some observer.

[01:21:57] I don't really have a dog in the fight, but I was interested enough to come over and take a listen, even though the hearing's at 2 in the afternoon. But in any event, give it a thorough thought, and it seems to me more thought is needed.

[01:22:13] thank you next speaker please good afternoon uh larry janice with lake ridge auto care again um real real quick my biggest concern with our property is the this design um the amount of public transportation that's going to be shuttled onto private roads um i'm kind of concerned for my customers and my employees their safety um there's already a degree of people using cut

[01:22:48] throughs on the on the private property around there uh specifically amon seton square um so and everything in this design it does appear like the design does intentionally or unintentionally drive public traffic onto some private property so i would just ask for your consideration when you're looking at the plan to take that into consideration thank you very much thank you i see we have two additional people lined up to speak on this issue just please state your name and generally where you live and you will have three minutes. I'm DT Naylor. I am in the Occoquan

[01:23:23] district. I actually signed up to the paper outside by the display, did not realize that was not what I was supposed to sign up for. So a lot of my comments are exactly the same as the other people have talked about the access to the commerce. But my other comment is the majority of the work that needs to be done is on the eastbound lane of the Prince William county parkway that is where in the southern part where they're doing the access road leaving the intersection the way it is so that you still have access in and out of the of touchstone circle to

[01:23:59] and from northbound o bridge and to the parkway toward woodbridge what i find a big problem too is that now there'll be a traffic light someone mentioned having two lanes continue with only one lane stopping that would be an improvement for that additionally there's an access road there's going to be access before you get to the sharp turn that we have now and again afterward which i see as backup in both locations when there are services at the religious center

[01:24:34] specifically trying to vie to get into the parking lot the people coming from old bridge will actually have to cross across the traffic lanes to get into the eastern exit to the access road. So I recommend that only one entrance in and out of the access road, preferably the latter one closer to Woodbridge, because the service road would give a lot of backup traffic rather than have it on the parkway. We already have problems going into the commercial building

[01:25:09] right before the turn where the only lane to stay on the eastbound is also a right turn lane into the to the uh professional center and that causes a lot of problems and i've seen accidents there uh we we will have that same problem with people trying to turn uh while we're traveling on the eastbound parkway uh it's my understanding that department transportation is taking comments until uh the 15th of december so i hope that you do not vote for this to go through work needs to be done

[01:25:44] on the eastbound and that's where the work should remain and let us keep our our access to to lake ridge and the services that are provided so uh thank you very much thank you next speaker please three cements potomac district uh there's a comment i want to make uh mr i hope i have his name correct mr martin jeter when he was up here speaking he did a great job in fact they all did

[01:26:19] but it is your responsibility up there in the board if you see something going on like example it would have been nice had this been with him constantly when he was describing his handouts here that's you guys can see what's going on because i want to hear every word this gentleman has to say, especially if I'm watching it from home. So that would be a good thing for you guys to be aware of. I hope you all are listening to what I'm having to say, because it seems like

[01:26:57] you're all distracted on something else, which is sad. Well, I definitely have no confidence in this Democrat board, and that's showing right now, because you're not paying attention. You're not. okay now another thing was brought up for people to stand back here some people are not able to stand back here because they have health issues but as soon as their name is called they'll get they'll get back here and I want to thank the gentleman who said he just came here to see what

[01:27:31] was going on please continue to come here and see what's going on because unfortunately it's been a nightmare ever since we've had this Democrat-controlled board. At least the boards we had before, boy, you never knew really what they were going to do. With this, it's going to be the gang of five, and you will lose. So, once again, I hope, like I said, this board is not listening to me.

[01:28:03] Franklin is distracted. Wheeler's distracted. Bailey's left. So, once again, please make sure these people have the microphone with them. All right, have a great day, and good luck to all of you who did all the work. Is there anyone else who would like to speak to this in chambers? Please approach the microphone in the back. Ms. Madden, do we have anyone online? The timer just started

[01:28:40] going for some unknown reason, unless you're timing yourself. Very good, I'll turn it over to Vice Chair Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Mann, shall we pull them up, please? Your first speaker is Courtney Novotny. Hi, this is Courtney Novotny. Can you hear me? We can, please proceed.

[01:29:08] Hi, my name is Courtney Novotny, and I'm a resident of the Occoquan District. I'm not in favor of this proposal due to the same issues detailed by the previous speakers. This project will make things worse instead of better, leading to more frustration, accidents, and lost business from the people such as myself who will choose to patronize other businesses rather than suffer through the new traffic headaches. Let's not act in haste and repent at leisure. This project, if it goes forward, will mean we are creating new problems for ourselves that will last for decades and will take an untold number of millions of dollars to fix.

[01:29:44] Even if it takes a little more time and money up front to get this right, please do the right thing and take into account the concerns of the residents who drive this section of road every day and who will be the ones who will have to live with it. To conclude, I am requesting that the Board reject this proposal and either do nothing at this time or explore other alternatives instead.

[01:30:04] Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Novotny. Are there any other speakers? There are no more speakers at this time. Thank you so much. Back to you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Vice Chair Bodie. Thank you, Ms. Mann. As always, seeing no one else approaching the mic from the back, this will officially close the public hearings on items 7A and 7B.

[01:30:26] We'll begin with 7A. Do board members have any questions on 7A? I don't see any questions on 7A. 7B, are there any questions on 7B? Madam Chair. Supervisor Bodie. Thank you. This has come as no surprise. I would like to give our transportation staff the opportunity to address all the myriad of well-founded concerns that folks have on this project.

[01:30:54] Madam Chair, members of the board, this is Kitab Shamut. I'm the Assistant Director of Transportation. I've listened to the comments, and we do agree that any project that you may improve, there will be some inconveniences with any project.

[01:31:10] But really, if you look at the intersection itself and look at the level of service of the intersection right now, it's an F, and it will be an F, and even a worse F in the future. Our improvement will take this intersection to a C and a B by year 2045.

[01:31:29] So it's definitely a significant improvement to the intersection. there will be definitely some inconvenience. But every one of those intersections will be analyzed and evaluated by a traffic engineering to make sure that it equals or better than what it is right now. So is it a little longer distance to get to an entrance?

[01:31:46] Probably is. But is it faster? I am sure it will be faster because the traffic will improve in that intersection. And as far as a U-turn at Old Bridge and the Parkway, there will be no U-turn because there will be three triple rights going into that intersection. And that's why recently we had a coordination with the glen, and we were able to add this left-turn lane into the glen directly off the parkway.

[01:32:11] Now, this hasn't been approved yet by VIDAD. However, we had a discussion with them, and we got feedback, and we tweaked it to a point where we believe it's going to go through. And that's a major feature of the project, and I was talking to the owner, that that's a major feature that when we approve the public hearing, that's part of the design.

[01:32:28] If anything changes in the future, we will have to find a different solution or we have to come back to a public hearing. But right now, that is in the design. We also, at the Troop and the Merchants intersection, we've listened to the engineer that was hired by the Merchant Plaza. And they made some recommendations to provide different lane assignments at the intersection.

[01:32:49] We were able to improve that and able to provide three lanes out from both directions to allow more of the exit to maneuver a little faster. And we, I think, came up with that solution and added it to the plans. Is it going to be a little longer in some distances and to some entrances?

[01:33:06] Sure, it will be. But that is part of a design or part of an improvement to any intersection. There will be some different normality out there. But in the end of the day, to get to that intersection will be much faster than it is right now. Three more questions, Madam Chair.

[01:33:25] Thank you, Mr. Schumann, for that. A couple other questions. You know, a lot of folks mentioned, and I think Mr. Jeter was the first one to talk about it, that there is another pathway here where we could just alter the current free-flowing right, far-right lane that just flows freely down the Prince William Parkway and continues down, and doubling that up in some way, shape, or form could somehow alleviate a lot of this while not fundamentally over-engineering the rest of the intersection.

[01:33:59] Could you speak to that? Right. And again, if we focus on one movement on this intersection, it may improve it. It may improve that east movement on the parkway by adding a second right-turn lane. But adding a second right-turn lane is a significant undertaking. The existing right-turn lane ends at Kenwood.

[01:34:16] To add a second right-turn lane, you are taking even further right-of-way impact and further homes to make that happen. But is it going to improve the overall intersection? It will not. Is it going to really meet the objective of a project of aligning the parkway to become the primary road that it is? And Old Bridge Roadway, the secondary roadway, that's not going to happen with that kind of improvement.

[01:34:37] It's just a one-sided improvement for one location only and not the overall intersection. Okay, and you just mentioned the second part, which I was going to ask is, you know, again, inherited project. Folks have said that already. And it was impression upon me that one of the major objectives of this project is to take people off of cutting a cross onto Old Bridge Road and thus alleviating some of the traffic congestion on Old Bridge Road.

[01:35:03] Does this accomplish this and by how much? It definitely does accomplish this by making this a little faster, a little mover through the intersection. By how much, I really don't know the pattern of traffic that that's going to be taking. But really, when you make that a straight movement, we are improving also the medieval interchange that makes that a little faster.

[01:35:24] You know, people are going to find the fastest way out, and that's definitely going to improve that movement through the parkway. Right now, that thing backs up, and I use it every day. It backs up significantly, not just because of the Ratgen Lane, but because of the through that's going into Old Bridge. And by removing that and making this a straight through movement, it will definitely improve that.

[01:35:44] And so to add to that, there was the comment that a lot of folks that are going across this intersection currently are doing so because they're trying to get to 95. How does that jive with what you just said? Because I agree that, you know, you are going to be making it so it's a lot easier to just keep going down Prince William Parkway.

[01:36:04] But if a lot of the folks are going through Lake Ridge via Old Bridge to get to 95, no matter how you cut it, it's a more straightforward way to get to, if you're supposed to going northbound 95, to take Old Bridge all the way down as it's going down a parkway or, you know, going down a parkway to Miniville and going up Miniville.

[01:36:27] Logistically, and even how Waze and Google Maps work currently, I'm struggling to see how this is going to really impact people who are going to be going straight to 95. Seems to be surprised that we can't just look at one improvement and assume that that's going to change the world out there. You know, there are two interchanges on 95.

[01:36:44] One is on the parkway, one on 123. People that are more comfortable taking 123, they probably will continue taking Old Bridge to 123 to 95, will continue to do this. This is going to make it a faster movement to get to 95, and not just north, but also south.

[01:37:03] With the improvements to the parkway, and as we move forward with the minimal, with the next project and the project after that, and maybe in the future 95 would be improved even further, things are going to improve. But is this going to make a huge change of how people are going to change their patterns?

[01:37:20] I think by straightening this, you're directing them onto the parkway that you will get that more drivers trying to go that route than trying to make that turn. But the locals on Old Bridge probably will continue to do that. Okay. Yeah. Last one, Madam Chair, for now.

[01:37:37] I know that in other projects that we have, and you mentioned one of them, 123 and Old Bridge Road, there have been alternatives that have been presented by BDOT, and we have a dialogue about them.

[01:37:51] This one didn't seem like we had nearly the menu of choices, and I get that some of this is because we're constrained just by the sheer amount that's built up around that, and I respect the fact that we're trying to minimize the taking and things like that, but by how much we're impacting access, I'm almost wondering what was the pivot point of decision-making that we're going to impact access this much just to help keep the box that is the right-of-way taken by this project to a minimum. Can you talk about that a little bit? Right. I mean, the goal of any project is to

[01:38:27] minimize impact to properties and the taking of the ride, but really wasn't the decision maker on how we have an intersection that is a four-legged intersection and you're changing it to a T intersection. There are some things we're going to need to adjust in order to make that work. You know, to straighten the parkway, the best way you could do this is that way without really significantly impacting existing business by adjusting the roads around it significantly.

[01:38:54] I mean, if there was anything out there, would I have a different option? Most likely I will. And there will be maybe other choices. But we have to take all of that in consideration, and not just the cost, but just the impact on the business. This project does not really displace anybody, does not take anybody, which is really one of a kind on a very congested area like that.

[01:39:14] And, you know, this was a smart-scale project that was started with VDOT. It was funded through VDOT's smart-scale program to do a project like that. So we had something to start with that went through a lot of discussions and a lot of meetings. And we took that, we tweaked that.

[01:39:31] We met with the property owners. We tried to do the best we can with what we got to make this work. I mean, are we going to please everybody? I would love to, but it's difficult in transportation sometimes. There will be some inconvenience. out there. And sorry, I do actually have one more, Madam Chair. You mentioned the funding, and I think it was mentioned earlier, this is already fully funded. Yes. And obvious question here is what happens if we defer this or vote it down? What happens to that funding? Deferring a decision will always delay a project. You know, we need this in order to get to the next phase, and our next phase would be right-of-acquisition starting in the summertime, and right-of-way

[01:40:10] means right-of-win utility relocation. There's a significant amount of utility in that area, you know so that's going to take time it's just going to delay a schedule okay thank you madam chair and it's a smart scale like i said federal job it has it's either dashboard with vdat and we need to maintain it so we have at least four people next is supervisor franklin sure and supervisor bode just answered one of the questions so we've already received the smart scale funding for it yes okay and and if we were to um defer delay um the the funding does not go away no does

[01:40:46] not go away it just becomes red in the dashboard which is not a good thing for us sure and then I guess my next question was just gonna be in terms of are there any additional improvements to this design structure that can be made based on some of the feedback like I'm assuming you guys met with local pelt in some of the other groups but are there any additional improvements that can be made based on some of those comments you know like like any project when we when we come to the board for a decision we are looking at the major features of the project sure to get that approved we will continue to work with the community we'll continue even if we go through right away acquisition sometimes

[01:41:25] we still adjust at inference here make this curve a little different and stuff like that tweaks as we go through the project so that's not gonna that's not a stopping or end point of we're not gonna stop we'll be continuing to talk we would get the comments as as we receive them and we'll try to see what we can do to accommodate we're always open and listening to any improvement out there that can happen that can meet VDOT standards supervisor we're thank you madam chair what is or do we know what the county share of this project is

[01:41:58] right now in terms of cost our participation madam chair members of board Paula Belita with the Department of Transportation the project is fully funded through the stars program it's 35 million of grant funding through the state. The county's share would be the staff time that's charged to the project on the construction side and design side of the...

[01:42:22] And right-of-way acquisition? And right-of-way acquisition. So the cost of the right-of-way acquisition is not covered or is covered? It's covered. It's part of the project. So that's funded outside of the county, correct? Correct. Okay. I think one of the comments that was just made sort of underscores this, people taking Old Bridge will continue to take Old Bridge. I think that's kind of my point. The project really doesn't address the original problem. In fact, all it does is create new ones.

[01:42:52] You know, I see the potential for significantly more U-turns, negative impacts on the retail and the restaurants. It may actually create more congestion rather than less in terms of eastbound traffic on the parkway, given the way it's designed. You're not going to make it faster through that signalized intersection. You're actually going to make it slower. And it's interesting that you know we've got a lot of people that were concerned about things and have raised issues with respect to the entrances to the shopping center and all of that but i seem to

[01:43:26] recall that last time this was brought forward that most westbound inner intersection to allow access from the eastbound lanes of the parkway into the into that office complex we were told that couldn't be done, and now I'm hearing it's been done or it's been planned, but you haven't vetted it through VDOT.

[01:43:49] And it's interesting that that concern was raised by one development group, and you've addressed that, but you haven't addressed anybody else's concerns, and I'm not real fond of that. So I would suggest that this thing needs to go back and get a little bit more review.

[01:44:06] We have addressed, Supervisor Will, we have addressed the Troop-Merchant Plaza intersection. We've actually listened to their engineer. They provide us with some improvements, and we were able to add them to the design. This one, I mean, if there's no business, if there's no property that's already active, that's probably not something I would consider.

[01:44:26] However, would it be approvable, being just a left-in, no left-out from the entrance out? So it's not a crossover, just a left-in. We're able to work with Vida Transportation, but I say the entire project hasn't yet been fully approved by Vida. If I recall correctly, you just said that that portion had not been vetted by VDOT yet or submitted to VDOT.

[01:44:47] And as I recall, Mr. Canizales sat here a couple of months ago and told us directly that that could not be accomplished. Like I said, like I mentioned before, we did have a discussion with VDOT Traffic Engineering and VDOT Direct Subject Matter Expert.

[01:45:04] We've talked about this intersection. We went through the design side of it, and we got some feedback from them, what can be done out there to make this work. So it wasn't really in the dark with VDOT. VDOT was involved in that discussion. But it hasn't yet been submitted because we have traffic engineering.

[01:45:20] So when you say, you know, old bridge traffic will continue or old bridge traffic meets a certain level of service, that's not an observation. We actually do traffic analysis, and we have the engineer with us who's done a lot of those numbers to really give us what's a level of service at every intersection.

[01:45:37] And looking at this, it works. Our concern was a signalized intersection versus not signalized. And for that matter, we were able to resolve that and were able to provide the gaps necessary for that entrance to take place. Now, has it been fully approved yet? It has not.

[01:45:53] But we consider that to be a major feature of the project, meaning that we will have to do something else to make this happen if that entrance is not approved by the end. But I'm confident it's probably going to go through. I'm just not as confident as you are.

[01:46:09] Supervisor Ingrid. Thank you, Madam Chair. Let's be clear. The original problem was Prince William Parkway, and it was to make it a true parkway. And I work with Supervisor Anderson, and we actually put funding to do a study of the parkway to try to make it a true parkway all the way up to 95.

[01:46:29] And let's talk about that parkway. It goes from 66 to 95. The issue has been the traffic that cuts through this county that runs through there. Now, I get the unintended consequences, and back when we discussed this with Rick Gonzalez, that entrance, because Mike Garcia talked to me about it, was one that he said he couldn't do, but I see that he pulled it off, and we had discussions about it.

[01:46:49] I know it's not everything they wanted. I think they wanted to signal that I was liked there. I couldn't do it. But here's a question I have for you. How old is the parkway in relation to that used to be Davis Ford Road? So how old is that portion of the parkway? You have to bring me back, because that's when I started with the county back in 1990.

[01:47:07] Okay. That was my first project, really. That's when we built the parkway. Now, I would say this. Imagine if that parkway truly was three lanes right there at the time when you built it out then. Because Old Bridge Road truly was the main road. And the issue today is the traffic that flows through here should not be cutting through Old Bridge Road.

[01:47:22] And I get what people are saying that live there. But let's be real, folks. The priority has been trying to make the parkway a true parkway. And as a firefighter, with that one lane, that three lanes come all the way across from Liberia Road to merge into one lane there has been the highest traffic.

[01:47:40] I hope you have the accident count of that one-lane intersection of the parkway because that is a concern and an issue. And secondly, I'll say to our Muslim facility that wants to be built there, you know, when this was in the Apsicle District, I held that up because they wanted to put the entrance right off that one lane, which clearly would get someone killed.

[01:47:58] And it was my discussion to say, let us get this STAR study going so that we can figure out how we're going to improve that intersection to actually help them in the build-out of that facility. Now, I don't know how much longer we can push this down the road to figure that out because we're going to hold that up again still.

[01:48:13] And I understand the concerns because, A, I don't want anyone driving through the shopping center to get back over to anything on the Miniland or the gas station or the auto shop. And I understand that's a private road. I don't particularly know what the win-win solution is that everyone will be happy.

[01:48:31] I do know what I believe is that the majority is going to be held to that parkway being a parkway, and there's going to be some unintended consequences that come with the shopping center portion. I know change is hard. I just, you know, this intersection ties to the development intersection of the Spooey, which is the parkway going under Miniville, because we're trying to create a true through parkway that, folks, I actually wanted to get that speed limit up on a parkway to 55 to get people off of Old Bridge Road and out of our neighborhoods.

[01:49:01] Now, will that ever happen to the gentleman's point? Probably not because, unfortunately, people are just in a hurry, either to go nowhere or go somewhere. Bottom line is they're just moving too fast, and I wish we could slow that down with some form of cultural, you know, help with that, but that's just the reality of it.

[01:49:17] So I honestly don't know what the answer is. I do like the fact that all of this is funded without using tax-based dollars. I really wish we could push this forward. I know we haven't gotten that clearance with VDOT, But, you know, I just feel, you know, this is just unfortunate because something I thought was actually great that we were doing with the parkway to make it better flow, you know, we've got this issue here.

[01:49:44] Thank you. Yeah. I'm going to insert myself and just as a point of privilege ask a question. So every day, well, almost every day, I drive during the week. I drive down on Prince William Parkway and I'm going to Merchant Plaza or whatever it's called, right?

[01:50:01] Can I still make a left there at that light? Yes. Like, I can still make a left. Oh, yeah. Okay, I just want to. There'll be triple lefts, actually. Okay, so I can still go to Merchant Plaza by making that left. Sure, and then you make another left at Merchant's. Okay. From where to where? Not the current left. I'm talking about at that light.

[01:50:17] Can I make a left to go down the old bridge to that light that has a big circle around it? Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I mean, so I go there every day. I just make a left of the light, and I go down to Merchant Plaza. Correct. Okay, just want to make sure. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Going back to something that my colleague said about us extending the parkway, I think that that was a desire in the beginning. The other thing that I want in terms of the future, wouldn't this also help the traffic flow for the new shopping area that we're having

[01:50:53] there in Supervisor Angry's district? Wouldn't this add, because we're going to have a lot more traffic coming from the east to the west on the parkway. Wouldn't this be the beginning of easing traffic in that regard as well? Sure. Like I said, you know, the level of service at this intersection currently, not in the next years to 2045, currently is at F. So it's a failing intersection. And our improvement will take it from AM and PM to a C and a B. So that's really a huge improvement. And that's not for today. That's for out years. So today will be much better than that when we opened that up and level of service means the ability to

[01:51:31] move less delay the ability to move through the intersection to get to the next point so that definitely will improve that situation for the flow through the parkway to get to minneville and beyond and so the other thing that I want you to describe is I know that there was a concern that we heard in terms of the child care center and and and the office building next door Mr. Garcia's office, but what were, what were the mitigating factors that you did to ease that concern? I mean, the concern was access and how is the best access for buses and for other

[01:52:07] deliveries and stuff into that, into the business park. So we've looked at different options. How can we provide a cut through, you know, service drive or something like that, but that's going to impact property. That's going to impact, impact some existing sites and stuff like that. So that wasn't really the best option. So we end up with this option that we can control, which is directly off the parkway to provide the left turn lane into that entrance, which is what you see right in that bubble there.

[01:52:33] And so the last question that I have, thank you for that. The last question I have, I know this has to do with traffic, but are there any plans to put sidewalks there at all? Oh, sure. Or to extend sidewalks is what I'm saying. Within the corridor of the project, we have a sidewalk, five-foot sidewalk on the eastbound of the roadway.

[01:52:55] And on the westbound, we have a 10-foot shared use path, asphalt trail, basically that connects the existing with the existing and connects to Oak Ridge as well. Okay. Thank you. Supervisor Lawson. Thank you, Madam Chair. A couple questions.

[01:53:11] First of all, this is already funded, and it's state and federal funding? It's smart-scale funding, right? It's all federal. State program with federal funding. Yeah, state program with federal funding. Yeah. Okay. so supervisor angry just said it's not being paid by taxpayer dollars but it is to my knowledge I'm sorry if the people in the if the people in the chambers can't refrain from speaking I will ask you to leave we just generally don't take any comments I say this every single time don't take it personally it's just we ask you frame from comments or shutting anything out supervisor

[01:53:47] Lawson I just want to make sure that there's clarity that you probably meant not Prince William general funds. Okay. Because somebody texted me like, wait, no taxpayer dollars. Yeah. So to be clear, it is absolutely going to be paid by Prince William County residents and United States citizens altogether. It's a public project, yes. Right. Public funds. What is the anticipated

[01:54:15] speed limit? 50, Mark? 45 miles per hour. That's the design speed. Now, anticipated is usually as a study that we have to do by VDOT, which is called the speed study. Currently, we're designing 445, but once the project is done and the project is operational and traffic is normalizing within months, then there will be another study done, speed study, that will determine the final speed of the roadway.

[01:54:46] Okay. And when do you anticipate VDOT? I know you expect VDOT to approve that clear cut um on on the far left side there right yep right there yep um but i recall the same conversations that supervisor weir does that mr gonzalez was very doubtful a couple months ago when this was brought to us but now katab your pitches is that you're optimistic i'm optimistic why because we had that discussion with vida did you not have it prior to two months ago when when Rick was here? We didn't

[01:55:25] have that particular because that wasn't on the plans. But when we start thinking about how we provide, how we improve the access to this, we brought them into that discussion, walked them through the different options that we have, and the ones we control and the ones we don't control, and that was the one that we can actually, all of us, can make a decision on and move forward. Okay.

[01:55:45] And will speed be a factor in if they approve it or not? No, we have a bay. Yeah, the west speed because obviously that that's going to affect no I mean right when we when we provide like a cut left like that into a median we'll have to look at the gaps and we have to look at the speed of the traffic coming from the other side would that provide enough gaps for people to be able to make that turn and that is the one that we can have looked at more carefully because there will be a signalized intersection at old bridge and the parkway so there will be some gaps

[01:56:22] created for to allow that left movement to happen and we believe a lot of that left movement is an am movement and that movement on the parkway is a little lower in the am that it is in a pm that's when when people are trying to make that left okay um so that business that that business park right there the the building yeah the office building right right there they were very vocal two months ago and did not want this project they wanted it delayed which the board majority delayed which is why we're here today. A lot of influential businesses there that bring a lot of business

[01:56:59] to this board that are not weighing in anymore because I'm guessing they're satisfied with that. What I want to advocate for are the small businesses like the gentleman here in the chamber who spoke in public hearing who has that auto repair shop. Who's looking out for him? He's still very concerned about what this is going to do to affect his property, his business. I'm not satisfied that you have mitigated his concerns like you have that office building the so who's who's making who has met with him and made sure that you're doing everything you can to satisfy

[01:57:38] his concerns right supervisor also we are doing everything we can i mean we have to look at the existing situation where that existing business is and what can we do to tweak and modify i think some of the concern is a cut through uh concern but it's it's already an existing roadway so i I mean, if there's cut-through, there will be some cut-through happening right now.

[01:58:00] It leads into that shop in the business center. It does lead into the business. Will some people want to take that entrance? Probably yes. However, we've looked at, from a traffic engineering, we've looked at the numbers, we've looked at the volume of traffic coming on Old Bridge into the parkway, and we think we have a good design that meets the standards.

[01:58:18] And for the record, he's just one example that I'm using. I'm familiar with where his business is. I just fear that he doesn't have the influence and the representation that he deserves in this massive project.

[01:58:36] And as a small business owner, I want to be sensitive to that. Somebody mentioned that the comments are still open until December 15th, so that's 10 more days. Talk to me about how that process continues.

[01:58:53] Just like for any public hearing, we always open up the hearing and we leave it for 10 days. this is technicality, this is because it's a federal job, we have to do it this way. However, we will entertain and comment at any time. Okay, so why do you want me to endorse your project when you still have 10 more days?

[01:59:09] It's a step in the design process. We need that step in order to move the project. So you just check the box? Well, I mean, we need approval to move the project any further. My point is, why isn't this on December 19th, on the agenda before the board on December 19th?

[01:59:26] I mean, if your comments are open until December 15th, the board meets on the 19th. Why is it on today's agenda? Because it will just move it from the 19th to the 29th.

[01:59:42] And if we have it in January... Say that again? From the 19th? We're always going to have 10 days after the public hearing. Oh, so this is... We're always going to. So it's not like that's my date, regardless of when the meeting is out. So you're supposed to have it 10 days post... 10 days, right. Understood. Thank you for that clarity. I appreciate that. My last question to you is, is you have two well-respected, very well-respected civic organizations who spoke at the public hearing and urge you to continue to work with the community, stakeholders.

[02:00:16] You had at least one HOA president who's here. You might have had more, I don't recall. But two, you had a gentleman who just showed up and said he's been reading a lot of emails. There's a lot of opposition. What do you say to them? And look, I realize that all of our decisions, yours included, aren't going to please everybody.

[02:00:37] I mean, but to be honest with you, Katab, and full disclosure, after the opening of the Balls Ford Road realignment and the havoc that that road created and the outrage of the citizens, of the businesses, I mean, I don't want to repeat problems like road design problems that we rely heavily on you guys to get right.

[02:01:07] And I'd argue that that one didn't, we should have designed it a little differently. So Professor Lawson, you worked with me enough. I'm always looking for the best way to improve an entrance, to improve an access. If there is a better way to improve an access, I will change the design even when I'm in construction.

[02:01:26] You know, that is really our goal, is to really provide the best access to everybody out there, if we can. But the problem is, is you're asking me to endorse something that I'm not convinced is the best. And by endorsing it today, you're going to just continue to move that ball forward.

[02:01:41] And the closer we get to construction, I mean, a lot of times it's too late. And I don't, my point is, is I'm not confident that you have earned enough support from not just a, you know, a business or two, but a broader support of the community.

[02:02:01] And I, I'm not there today. Right. I mean, I definitely cannot change your opinion on this. We think we have a good design. We think we've really. I didn't change my opinion. No, I said, I don't think I can change your opinion. That's your opinion. But what I'm saying is we have a design that went through the traffic engineering, went through the numbers, went through the design spec.

[02:02:22] We have to look at the VDOT standards as well, make sure that we meet them, and it does meet all of that. Now, is there going to be a tweak here and there that we can make as we move forward? I am sure we will, and we will continue looking for those. But as major features of the project, this is the best that we can have with the situation at that location that we have right now.

[02:02:43] Thank you, and I appreciate you explaining the 10-day. Yeah, thank you. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. Hello, Katab. Hey, how are you? I'm good. I think I'm a little bit better than you, though. With that being said, to Supervisor Lawson's point, it's not just a couple of businesses that are being impacted, and that's one of my main concerns, aside from the various concerns that have been raised by the different groups that showed up and everybody else that has emailed us.

[02:03:14] You know, you stated that we're not displacing anyone, but you cannot negate the financial impacts that this is going to cause to the other businesses in the surrounding areas, and that's a great concern of mine. I appreciate Supervisor Angry talking about the history and how we got here.

[02:03:31] I think it's important to note that Supervisor Anderson is no longer in the Occoquan seat, that things have changed, and a big factor that we haven't actually taken into consideration, at least I haven't heard it, in the discussion here today or in prior conversations is COVID.

[02:03:48] A lot of people are no longer on the road because they get to work from home and they work remotely. And so you have to take that into consideration. When the request was made and where we are today, I would say that Supervisor Bodie was just reelected for another four years.

[02:04:04] I think that it would be prudent to allow him the opportunity to continue to work with you and with other stakeholders to make sure that we put something forward that is, Yes, not going to please everyone, but at the very least, us here on the dais can say with confidence that it was thorough and that the community and the stakeholders don't feel like they were neglected or their concerns not addressed.

[02:04:27] And so, you know, Supervisor Lawson talked about the December 15th date. You explained the 10 days. Again, I would support Supervisor Bodie if he were to move forward for a deferral to give him more time in his district, as he is the current supervisor, and he was just reelected for another four years.

[02:04:47] Supervisor Weir. Paolo, I've got a quick question for you. The county's got a number of projects in the hopper, both already through the design phase and in the design phase, for a variety of intersections on the parkway between McCourt and 95 in several locations, correct?

[02:05:11] Correct. What is the likelihood, and I'm not going to hold you to this, for contemporaneous development of those projects rather than sequential? So throughout the corridor, we've done various studies, and this was part of, it was mentioned earlier as part of a STAR study, which looks at different alternatives.

[02:05:30] We've done other studies in the corridor. We looked at improvements on the parkway east of Smoketown. We submitted it for grant funding. It was not selective for funding. It's hard to tell. It all depends what other applications we are competing for, but we continue to submit funding applications for some of these improvements along the corridor.

[02:05:49] But you've got other improvements, intersection improvements, large-scale projects as part of small area plans, that sort of thing? Correct, yes. Is there a possibility that these would occur contemporaneously in terms of the construction phase? It's hard to tell. It all depends.

[02:06:05] When it comes to the funding cycle, when we're applying for funding now, it's typically four to six years ahead of time to give you an idea of where we are. Even those projects that are going to be in part or largely in part or largely paid for by development interests? If you're speaking on the Quartz, the Minerville Parkway, that is a design that's funded by the developer.

[02:06:27] We have other funding allocated to the project, and we'll continue to apply funding for said intercession. Last question. What's your estimated timeline from turning the first spade of dirt to final construction of the project?

[02:06:44] For this project? For this project. I actually wrote that down just to remember. We are looking at right away to start in July of next year, and right away will take a few months before we have easements for utilities.

[02:07:00] So we'll start utility relocation sometimes in the spring, early spring of 2025, and I will give it a year. Of course, how much control I have on utilities, but I'll give it a year for completion, and then I will go to construction at date in spring of 26.

[02:07:18] And how long would that actual construction take? I feel that construction should take about a year and a half for completion. Okay, thank you. With a clean utility is out of the way. Supervisor Angry. Thank you, manager. Just one quick question.

[02:07:33] Has anyone from your office been in coordination, coordinating with the Mohamedia Center as far as their build out of that facility? Yeah, my understanding from my project manager, they've asked for our design. You know, they have an approved site plan, right?

[02:07:49] So they've asked for our design. We showed them exactly how we came up with this adjustment there. and we did not hear any comment from them. Yeah, and I just want to point that out because while we're talking about businesses on the other side of the street, let's talk about that community there as well because you've really got decisions to make.

[02:08:07] Either way you go at this, you're harming someone, and so I will say that they have been put on hold for a while waiting for this construction or this widening, this development to better allow access for their facility. So I just want to put that on the board's radar as consideration.

[02:08:25] Thank you, Madam Chair. So you said right now it's an F? That's my traffic engineering numbers are, yeah. And if you improve it, it gets to a BNSC? So BNSC depends on A and BN, yeah. And when did we start this project? How many years ago?

[02:08:42] Well, the design just in 22, I think, when it gets funded. When was the STARS study? It started in 2020, I think. It started in 2020, yeah. 2020, yeah, yeah. Okay, and that's been completed, and that's how the design came out of it. Exactly. And the funding became available in 22, and that's when we started the design.

[02:08:59] Okay, thank you. supervisor lawson thank you madam chair um what is the i can't make it out the orange uh right that it looks like it's almost like a bit of a site plan um i think um yeah i think supervisor angry referenced it earlier um this is mohammedia center okay but that doesn't exist does it okay

[02:09:26] i'm sorry okay okay that's why you're referring to the one lane okay um all right that that's So we're just showing their plan basically in there.

[02:09:43] Okay. We're not doing anything. Supervisor Brody. Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I've struggled with this one the last time.

[02:09:58] I'm still struggling with it for a wide variety of reasons. And Senator, angry respect to you, and I appreciate your commentary here. We are looking at one of the objectives of this is to make a more free-flowing, less congested Prince William Parkway. So I honor that.

[02:10:14] I obviously have a lot of constituents that use or are on the Prince William Parkway every single day, and we do need to continue looking at making that much more free-flowing while also, of course, respecting the traffic safety of that corridor. At the same time, we have a lot of Lake Ridge residents that are looking for more relief on Old Bridge Road, and Katab, I know that you said this does do that to some regard, but at the same time, we don't know the magnitude of that because as you yourself said, the people that are continuing,

[02:10:48] that currently use Old Bridge Road to get from this intersection to 95 will continue to do that. And there's not a lot we can do with this intersection, I think, that's ever going to change that necessarily. So I struggle with that because I know that the other side of this is, yes, there's a parkway side of this, but I know that Supervisor Anderson had the Old Bridge Road corridor study that was done under her purview and that this was one of the areas that was looked at as part of that study as well.

[02:11:18] So there is unfortunately a confluence here of two different problems that we're trying to solve. And so this does, in many regards, help improve the traffic flow for the parkway, but it doesn't do a lot to improve the traffic flow for the folks on Old Bridge, which is the heart of my district.

[02:11:37] It doesn't do a lot to help traffic flow for the shopping center or any of the businesses that are going to be affected by this. In fact, as folks have said, it's going to worsen that in many ways. The fact of the matter is that this, again, respecting you all and all the work you put into this, so I want to give that to you and I appreciate it, it's a very constrained intersection.

[02:12:05] There's a lot that's already built up there. There are homes there. There are businesses there. If we could go back and wave a magic one and rebuild this intersection from scratch and everything around it from scratch, I'm sure we'd have a much different design than what we currently have there today, even versus this.

[02:12:24] But we don't. Unfortunately, we have what we have, and we have the reality exists. I appreciate the idea that we'd be going from an F to a B slash C, you said by 2045. That's a traffic engineer, yes.

[02:12:39] Sure. And that is obviously a quality of life improvement for folks from a data-driven way, and I take that and consider that as well. I'm just still struggling with the fact that we have a lot of folks who will not see their quality of life improve east of Old Bridge Road by this project.

[02:13:02] And as we look at such a large-scale project that's supposed to reimagine how folks flow and experience this intersection, experience eastbound in both the Old Bridge side and the Prince William Parkway side, we have to consider that totality of the folks that are going to be moving through here.

[02:13:24] Also, we've talked about it quite a bit, that new left-hand turn going eastbound up to that office park. How long would it take for us to know whether or not VDOT's truly going to approve that?

[02:13:41] Do we know? Do we have to approve this now in order for them to get back to us? What's that look like? Well, we have to submit. And we're thinking about within a couple of weeks, we'll submit. It'll be about a month for them to come back with comments and stuff like that.

[02:13:58] But again, let's go back into that. The people will continue. I don't know. I mean, some people may still work through Old Bridge and get to 95 that way. But, again, if you improve the main road and you improve the parkway where people can be moving faster through the intersection, not faster in speed, but time-wise, and that's a more available access to them to get to 95, they will change their pattern.

[02:14:23] The folks that are going to Old Bridge, to destination on Old Bridge, will continue to use Old Bridge. But just to cut through Old Bridge, it all depends. You know, with the improvements on Menneville, with future improvements on the parkway, the parkway becomes the main route. And that is really a piece in that overall improvement of the parkway.

[02:14:43] And I'm hoping to get to a BNC before 2045. The minute we have it open, we'll get better than that. Because in 2045, it's a BNC. But before that, it should be better than that. Sure. I just, Sufra Zervega made a pretty good point earlier.

[02:15:01] And I've seen you guys take some of these projects, and every time we've given a little bit more time or even a lot more time to work on it, we've seen improvements. We've seen improvements even just the last two months over what we had before. Now, I understand that it hasn't alleviated completely what everyone has been concerned about, but there's been improvement.

[02:15:19] We can all agree that there's been incremental improvements on where this project is going. I will say, to liken it to the 123 and Old Bridge project, you guys have been able to push VDOT to do a lot of things that they initially say, no, we can't do that, or no, there's no way, and what have you, and I hate to keep putting you guys up as an adversarial position to VDOT, because I know that we have to collaborate them on so many things, and what have you.

[02:15:44] However, I just keep going back to the fact that there are two different solutions that we're trying to accomplish with this intersection design, and we're doing really well with the parkway aspect of it, but we're not doing so well with the Old Bridge Road aspect of it. And I just feel like with how much you guys have been capable of in other projects, and frankly so far with this one, I don't think we're quite ready for this one to hit showtime.

[02:16:12] But my question back to you all is what a deferral looks like. How much more time do you think we can give you to do further improvements and work with VDOT to look at that old bridge leg of this to improve that part as well? I mean, we really looked at it.

[02:16:32] I looked at it carefully and in more details, looked at every intersection, what can be done. We've adjusted troop and merchants. I mean, unless we close some axes and call us out some roads out there, you know, to get them away from the intersection this really from what you got like you mentioned you know this is already a developed area so very little without taking business without taking direct property to to do things it'll be difficult to try to accommodate everybody out there while have a design that fits in and please every intersection 100 because i would hate just to do a deferral just

[02:17:12] to do a referral and not have a date certain for us to come back and continue to have this conversation right but supervisor lawson has a comment if you you want to take a couple minutes sure thank you supervisor bode i think you make great points that you know when they brought this to us in october september whenever that was there there was a lot of contention um i i think you're on a road to making improvements i will absolutely support a deferral whether you have a date certain or not because i i think like you said this isn't ready for prime time is that what your quote was

[02:17:51] um showtime showtime um i i just honestly and and i really do respect the planning staff i or i mean the transportation staff um you guys have a tough job you do but you all know the problems that we had with balls ford and i cannot consciously sit here and and endorse this project knowing that there was so much angst when we rolled that out and you guys had to go back and do some things and better signage and i'm not saying that that this is exactly like balls ford

[02:18:27] but i just want to make sure before i vote that that i feel really comfortable and i just don't so i'm just i'm encouraging you to defer and i'll support you supervisor body yeah so with that madam chair no one of my colleagues have anything else to add um i will be moving that we defer this second motion made by supervisor bode seconded by supervisor franklin any further discussion and manager i thought you said it at the same time that's fine oh we go back to 7a

[02:19:05] no we didn't go but yeah obviously my motion was to defer 7b we can go back to 7a um madam chair sorry just so if i can get a motion for 7a well you want to go to 7 okay fine okay discussion Supervisor Angry.

[02:19:27] Thank you, Madam Chair. Your first time for discussion. It's just real quick. I just, you know, as we were going through all of this, one of the priorities that I was really literally looking at was how to cap off Old Bridge Road, not assuming that folks want access to all this. I really was trying to move traffic off of cutting through this county because they use Old Bridge Road, they use Dale Boulevard, they use Cardinal Drive.

[02:19:49] These are main arteries that a large percentage of traffic cuts through. So my intent of this, And I was very happy when I first heard about the STAR study. And I see, I knew the unintended consequences with once it was brought to my attention because we don't want that. But I literally was looking to see how could you all alleviate that as best you could.

[02:20:09] I don't know if there's a better plan. So I don't know how long it's going to be and what you bring back. You know, I know a lot of folks who are in the room, they will work with you on this to figure out what that looks like. I don't know if there's a better plan. I do know that my intent was literally for folks who live on Old Bridge Road to have access to 95 going 123-way without having to worry about everyone else that's driving on that road.

[02:20:30] You have schools on that road. You have a lot of business on that road. You have driveways literally off that road. So to me, I was wanting to make that a community road, which was my intent behind it. So understanding what the people want and what they're saying, you know, okay, well, then we have to figure something out. I'm not so sure what that is.

[02:20:46] Best of luck to you, and I guess we'll see it when it gets back here. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Franklin? Sure. Part of the challenge is that sometimes the county and VDOT have different goals in terms of traffic. So, you know, VDOT, their goal is to move traffic as much as possible, sometimes without other considerations that the county has to take into consideration.

[02:21:12] We've dealt a lot with things like this with regards to Route 1. You know, I look at particularly, this is not the same example, but just an example of how sometimes we're on opposite sides of VDOT, like Wigglesworth, and not getting the turn that we would want because VDOT just has a different goal for Route 1 at Wigglesworth.

[02:21:35] So that's part of the challenge here. I think it's less about us not wanting to move forward, but more about sometimes we have conflicting goals with regards to transportation, and so we have to figure out how to move around that. I've always said that Prince William County needs more authority to mitigate our own challenges here because, quite frankly, the situation we're in now is that we have smart scale funding from the state, and quite frankly, we have to make sure that VDOT is comfortable with us moving forward.

[02:22:06] Now, while they haven't given their final approval, Katab has worked very closely with them to get as close as possible. But unfortunately, I think there is a little bit more discussion to be done in a few other areas.

[02:22:22] I thank you guys for the work that you've done. I know that it's frustrating to have to continue to go back to the board on some of these things. I don't think you have to go back to the beginning. I think it's just a few things that still need to be addressed. I don't even know that that needs to take a grand amount of time to do that.

[02:22:39] but I do think it's worth maybe some additional discussions. And again, we have to continue to think long-term and work with our state delegation long-term to figure out how can us localities gain more authority to be able to do some of these projects on our own in order to solve the goals that we feel we need to solve in terms of transportation.

[02:23:02] So just wanted to kind of flag that, and I don't know that we discussed the date moving forward, But to our transportation officials, I would just say move with urgency and be expedient in bringing back some options.

[02:23:19] Thank you. Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate my colleagues riding with me on this, and I ultimately agree with a lot of the comments that have been said. You know, it is frustrating because I agree again with Supervisor Angry. This does dovetail very well with the Minnieville Parkway intersection.

[02:23:39] We've talked about those two sort of belts and suspenders working with each other. I know we're still looking at getting more funding, and we're still working through that. We have approved the design for that one, but there's still steps that need to be done there. Again, ultimately, like I said, I don't want us to be in a haste to approve something that, you know, the folks on the old bridge side of this and especially the shopping centers are going to live with for a long time. We have millions of dollars in approved funding to improve this. Let's make

[02:24:13] it a real holistic improvement and not just alleviating one side, what's really a multifaceted major intersection of the county. Again, we can't go back and undo and unwind all the other work that's been done and the development patterns that have been done in this intersection. I mean, And when I first moved here, the glen wasn't there, the tribute at the glen, I should say.

[02:24:39] And the tribute at the glen is one of the folks that I know this project is looking to protect its right-of-way. So if going back, maybe if we had gotten some of the right-of-way there, we wouldn't be sitting here with this. We could have a nicely shaped T-intersection, but we are where we are. Again, that said, appreciate all the folks that came out, that have reached out to my office personally, the folks that have come here today.

[02:25:01] I know that this is going to be frustrating for some folks that are really looking for alleviation in traffic solutions for that parkway part. But until we're able to get that old bridge road part right also, we have to look at these intersections holistically and not just one bend or another.

[02:25:17] So, again, appreciate all the support here. Appreciate my colleagues being able to ride with me on this. I'm looking forward to transportation, your continued work on this project. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Thank you. Before we vote, Ms. Madden, we're voting to defer, not, okay, well, it says endorse.

[02:25:37] I just want to make sure we're all on the same page. Okay, very good. Let's say no for the discussion. Please vote. Vote unanimous. Supervisor Angry abstaining from vote.

[02:25:55] That moves us on to 7A. If I could get a motion for 7A, please. So move, Madam Chair. Second. Motion made by Supervisor Belli, seconded by Supervisor Bodie. Any discussion? Seeing none, please vote. Vote unanimous.

[02:26:14] Thank you. We're now on to item number eight, county executive time. Mr. Shorter, the floor is yours. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, members of the board.

[02:26:30] I just want to, again, as members of the board stated, thank our transportation team for their dedication, their commitment, and certainly their hard work here. Just wanted to make a really quick announcement. This is a good announcement. I wanted to just announce the inaugural sort of class, if you will, of the Prince William County Summer Internship Program.

[02:26:53] So we are going to be starting an application process in January, February, and start an internship program in summer of 24. Opportunity really for college students to get to know our government, and for us, an opportunity to create a pathway to employment for young people who are interested in opportunities with our government.

[02:27:16] I want to really just thank Deputy CXO Quentin Haynes for his inspiration, leadership here, and for Riley Jordan in HR and really the entire HR team for doing the work of creating the program. This is a big deal for us.

[02:27:33] We've all talked about the need for us to create opportunities for young people and getting college students to show interest and then become aware in our government is a big deal. So thank you to the team. And that is all for me, Madam Chair.

[02:27:49] Thank you, Mr. Shorter. Supervisor Weir? Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Shorter, I believe I was quite clear at the last meeting that I expected an update on the status of our efforts with respect to use of the surplus to offset personal property tax, especially since we're running out of time.

[02:28:09] Where do we stand on that? I expect, thank you for that too, advisor. We're, I expect to send an email out to the board today, certainly tomorrow morning at the latest. I talked to the team earlier this morning about the surplus, and we will have a very comprehensive email that goes to the entire board today or first thing tomorrow morning.

[02:28:34] As stated last meeting, I do plan to come back for December 19th with a, with a, recommendations on surplus, but we'll send a note out in writing to the board again this afternoon or first thing tomorrow morning.

[02:28:51] Thank you, Mr. Shorter. Ms. Rubel, the floor is yours. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. For discussion this afternoon in closed session, we will have a personnel discussion and consideration relating to the hiring of a new director for the Office of Planning, where a consultation, briefing, or discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position, litigating posture, or negotiating strategy of the public body.

[02:29:14] We will have a personnel discussions relating to the annual performance evaluation of the county executive and the county attorney, where consultation, briefing, or discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position, litigating posture, negotiating strategy of the public body. We will have consultation and discussion with legal counsel and briefings by staff members pertaining to the acquisition of real property for a public purpose, with the accompanying consultation with legal counsel and briefings by staff members pertaining to actual litigation, and regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice by such counsel, with the accompanying legal advice regarding county land acquisition of right-of-way

[02:29:51] on the property of McDonald's Corporation at 9900 Pennsylvania Avenue in the Brentsville Magisterial District, where such consultation or briefing in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position, negotiating strategy, or litigating posture of the public body. Finally, we will have consultation with legal counsel and briefings by staff members regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice by such counsel pertaining to legal advice regarding land use law and rezoning number 2022-00032, Digital Gateway

[02:30:22] North, rezoning number 2022-00033, Digital Gateway South, and rezoning 2022-00036, Compass Data Centers, Prince William County Campus 1, where such consultation, discussion, or briefing in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position, negotiating strategy, or litigating posture of the public body.

[02:30:44] These items are appropriate for closed session pursuant to 2.2-3711A137 and 8 of the Code of Virginia. So moved, Madam Chair. Second. Motion made by Supervisor Ingrid, seconded by Supervisor Bailey. Any discussion? Seeing none, please vote.

[02:31:01] Vote unanimous. Thank you, Ms. Robel. That moves us on to Supervisor's time. Before we begin with the individual updates, can we vote on the two nominations and one one appointment, 10A through 10C.

[02:31:19] Move for approval, then. Second. Motion made by Supervisor Bailey, seconded by Vice Chair Bodie. Any discussion? Madam Chair. Supervisor Bodie. Thank you. Just very quickly, wanted to appreciate your, us wanting to re-nominate Paul Chamberlain to the BZA. He is one of my constituencies.

[02:31:37] I know we don't do direct appointments or direct nominations to there, but he is in my district, and I know he's done a lot of good work, So just wanted to say thank you for renominating. And thank you for bringing that up. You know, when we got into office in 2020, the BZA was suffering because they didn't have enough people on it, and they weren't doing business.

[02:31:56] And I know it was Mr. Chamberlain or somebody else who just kept on reaching out to us about putting people on the BZA. And so these renominations came from staff, and I usually tend to support what staff does. I know that, and, you know, every year there are a couple of new ones will be coming up, so thank you.

[02:32:12] I know he's been a good member of the BZA, and I think the BZA is working well now. So thank you. With seeing no further discussion, please vote. Vote unanimous. Thank you. We will now go around the horn.

[02:32:28] Last week I started, I believe, with Supervisor Bailey. So today I'm going to start to my right, if that's okay, with Supervisor Franklin. Thank you. On December 1st, I participated in a couple of different events, the first being the opening ceremony at the Holiday Walk of Lights opening ceremony at Neabsco Regional Park, The park was beautiful, and families came out.

[02:32:53] Thank you to our staff, Deputy County Executive Elijah Johnson and his wife for coming out. Thank you to Seth Henler-Volce and his entire team who put that organization together. It was beautiful. Lots of people enjoyed it. It will be going on until December 23rd if you want to get out and take a stroll.

[02:33:12] Later that evening, I attended the Stonebridge Town Center annual Christmas tree lighting, where I was able to do the countdown with Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus, And that was very fun. I also rode in the Dell City volunteer fire truck. And so that was a lot of fun as well.

[02:33:27] And so thank you to all the families that came out to support. Thank you for Kimco for hosting and putting on that event. And then lastly, I was able to attend the Whibbridge Community Choir Christmas concert at the Falazzo Building alongside Supervisor Angry. Had a great time. They sounded absolutely beautiful.

[02:33:44] They wanted us to join their choir, but I was a little intimidated. but they were absolutely beautiful and just encouraging those to go out and support this upcoming friday we will be hosting our annual senior luncheon christmas senior luncheon at the woodbridge senior center so please come out and join us we usually have really good participation indoors will open at 11 and lunch will be served at noon so please sign up and register there and with that i yield thank you supervisor franklin supervisor bega thank you madam chair just two things a reminder this coming saturday is our annual coals district christmas tree lighting

[02:34:22] ceremony beginning at 4 p.m also we are going to be collecting toys for tots so if you're interested you can swing by our office monday through friday between the hours of 9 a.m and 5 p.m and we will also be accepting donations this saturday at our tree lighting ceremony thanks madam chair thank you supervisor vega supervisor angry thank you madam chair i want to thank delegate sewell we We hosted a partnership town hall meeting with River Run Community.

[02:34:50] They brought up such issues as middle-income seniors don't qualify for low-income housing rental rates and can't afford market-rate housing rentals. The need for PITC bus service that they used to have that ran to make some routes for them. So we're going to be addressing a lot of those issues.

[02:35:08] Also, Toys for Tot, our last day to drop off toys at my office is 12 December. So please bring those toys out, drop those toys off, and we'll get them over to Virginia American Water and onward to the Marines. On the 29th, I really had an awesome time being the keynote speaker at a Veterans Docket graduation with the Prince William General District Court.

[02:35:30] That was an awesome program, an awesome experience, and I think one of the finest programs that Prince William County has put on for veterans who are having a difficult time transitioning from the military into a civilian life awesome program.

[02:35:47] I also want to thank Prince William Fairgrounds because they actually contributed all of that fairground to the, I think it was over 1,000 students when Prince William had their 4-H program. This has been a couple of, actually probably a month ago, but just really want to get around to acknowledging the fairgrounds for continuing to do that.

[02:36:06] Also, my office will be working from home during the week between Christmas and New Year's. If you need us, please call, please email, please text. You can always still reach us. And we also had a great joint session meeting with the school board and our delegation.

[02:36:23] And one of the big issues that I brought up and want to continue to make everyone aware of is our school zone, speed cameras in school zones, and how we can actually work with our lobbyists down in Richmond to include daycare centers, corporate daycare centers into that to try to help with the speeding on some of our major roadways.

[02:36:44] And then lastly, I will simply just say Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and let me get the notice. There we go. Notice of intent. There it is right there. Notice of intent to reappoint Kelly Easterly to the AAC, Jason Williams to Trails and Blue Ways, Patty Beattie to the Library Board, and Gwendolyn Brown to the Planning Commission.

[02:37:09] And all of those resumes are on file. And I think that will do it. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Supervisor Angry. Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one thing. I'd just like to note that the town of Haymarket will be having their holiday celebration this weekend.

[02:37:24] The streets will be closed from 12 to 7. And it's rumored that Santa Claus will be driven to the town by the Grinch. I'll let everybody figure out who that is. Thank you, Supervisor Weir.

[02:37:40] Supervisor Lawson. We know. Actually, all I have is I want to just, to our Jewish community here in Prince William County, I want to extend an early Happy Hanukkah.

[02:37:56] It starts on Thursday evening, and I look forward to the menorah lighting, the annual menorah lighting on Sunday evening with Rabbi Schmule, one of my favorite people on earth. And anyway, that's all I have, Madam Chair. Thank you, Supervisor Lawson. Supervisor Bodie.

[02:38:12] Thank you, Madam Chair. In the same vein, looking forward to the menorah lighting in the town of Occoquan here coming up on Thursday right before our JET meeting. Both Mayor Porter and I will have to get there, go to the menorah lighting, and then both go to the Joint Environmental Task Force meeting.

[02:38:27] But really appreciate the time we're able to spend with the Jewish community for that. As Supervisor Ingrid said, we had a great joint meeting yesterday morning. between our delegation our school board um there are a lot of moving pieces going on in the general assembly coming up next year but i know that if we have the right collaboration with our general assembly delegation we can get a lot done and unload uh unveil a lot more quality of life for our constituents in a very similar vein um i know one of the things that we talked a lot about as a board is the need to continue uh supporting our school system and a lot of their needs not only

[02:39:04] from an operational side but a capital nature um so in the coming weeks i want to continue socializing with my colleagues the need for us to look at ways of doing more to partner with them as we get new schools up and running we look at renovating um and and reconstructing parts of existing schools um i know that we're experiencing continuing to experience a lot of growth as a county um and as our land use choice continue to flow into needs for school impacts we continue to have that i know that back in 2017 there was a joint committee on capital with the school division and the county and the county board of supervisors uh looking at perhaps at some point reconstituting

[02:39:43] some of that in some way shape or form for that uh enhanced collaboration with the schools but wanted to throw that idea out now so folks can start thinking about how we can better uh partner with the school division to uh really invest in our capital needs for our school division thank you so much, Madam Chair. Thank you, Vice Chair Bodie. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[02:40:03] Good evening and afternoon to everyone. November 30th, I want to thank the MVBIA for our first panel discussion on the affordable dwelling units and the goals thereof, and it was very enlightening, and we talked about process and network, and our colleagues were very happy to engage with them, So thank you for that presentation.

[02:40:23] On December 1st, we attended the annual legislative forum overview of the federal and state issues affecting our transit system in northern Virginia. And so thank you for my staff for attending that. Staff also attended the annual Dumfries tree lighting ceremony, which is always a lot of fun.

[02:40:43] On December 3rd, we had a wonderful time with the Woodbridge Lions holiday celebration. thank you for all the service that you do to our community. December 4th, thanks for a wonderful meeting with our state delegation. I agree with my colleagues. It was absolutely enlightening. And as long as we partner together for the goal and the goodness of Prince William County, there is no limits of what we can achieve in serving. On December 5th, this evening, my staff will be attending the Potomac Health Foundation annual holiday event. I want to say Thank you for all the work that you do with us and supporting the CRC.

[02:41:18] We really appreciate you. Upcoming events, December 6th, I'll be having a community meeting with the Ashland community to talk about transportation and the new project that is going to happen there in the Ashland community. On the 7th, my office, along with the Old Dominion chapter of the Lynx, will be sponsoring a coat drive that we will be donating to Dr. Stanley Jones, the new CEO at Axe and Dumfries. On December 8th, I'll be honored to attend the retirement for my buddy, Sergeant Major Barry. He is leaving us, and I'm very sad about that,

[02:41:59] but congratulations to him. And then I want to share with you a special tribute and appreciation from Eric Fagerholm, one of my appointees, to one of our employees, Tim Hughes, Environmental Management, and he says thank you to the Potomac District Supervisor and Director of PwC Public Works and congrats to Mr. Tim Hughes, Supervisor Bailey, and Director Smith.

[02:42:25] Thank you both for your outstanding leadership in promoting environmental restoration at 15941 Dumfries Road and 5049 Waterway Drive, both county-owned properties. I ask that you pass my thanks on to Mr. Hughes, and he has done yeoman's work here in this community.

[02:42:46] We appreciate him. He will be greatly missed, but please recognize him, and as which I'm doing right now, Mr. Fagerholm, for the great work that he's done with our community. So thank you so much, Mr. Hughes, for all of you done. And then lastly, I want to close by offering my sincere and loving condolences to Ms. Joan Colson and her family.

[02:43:08] We lost Mr. Edward Brett, as we call him Colson, a pillar in our community in Prince William County, and lives in my district, and I will miss him. He served on a variety of leadership roles to include the president of the Historic Dumfries Committee, Weemsbot Museum, and as the director and vice president of the Friends of Dumfrey Slave Cemetery, which we worked very diligently to get the placard stood up in that cemetery.

[02:43:34] Our thoughts, our prayers, our love are with you, Mrs. Colson and the family. His memorial service will be Friday, December 15th at 11 a.m. at Miller's Funeral Home on 3200 Galansky Boulevard.

[02:43:50] Brett, I will miss you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Supervisor Bailey. On just a couple things. On Wednesday, I also attended the Greater Prince William Veterans Docket graduation with a really inspiring keynote by Supervisor Angry.

[02:44:06] It's a wonderful docket. It does wonderful things, but your keynote was really exceptional, so thank you. Last Thursday, I also attended the Northern Virginia Building Industry Association first-ever panel on affordable housing, hosted by our local PwC chapter, and it really feels like there's a lot going on with affordable housing for Prince William County.

[02:44:24] That's going to be exciting over the next year. My staff also attended the Northern Virginia Transportation Commission, PRTC, and VRE Legislative Forum that last Friday and with a lot of great information that was imparted. And yesterday, you know, we did have a great meeting with our school board and our delegation.

[02:44:42] You know, I know that it's been very productive over the last few years, and I'm grateful for that. I was grateful that they gave me a gavel from the school system. And I really do want to acknowledge the great leadership of Chair Lateef, who has called me and involved me in discussions a lot and reached out and built up a relationship over the last four years.

[02:45:01] I think that was beneficial to the relationships between our two boards, and I really want to just say publicly that I appreciate that. Before moving on, I do have two notices of intent to reappoint. These are people being reappointed to the Hilton Performing Arts Center Board.

[02:45:19] One is Denise McPhail, so I believe her resume's on file, as well as Joyce Connery. And those are reappointments to the Hilton board. We approved him today. That's all right.

[02:45:35] But thank you for reminding me. Appreciate that. And Supervisor Lawson. Can I ask, why are we making those appointments right now? Are they expired? Yes, they expire at the end of the year, and they've asked the board people.

[02:45:50] They expire at the end of this year? Yeah, and they've asked that we reappoint them. i honestly think that that's something that new board should take up in january so i'm getting my notice that's fine yeah i just i just don't feel right you know appointing people this late when you and i aren't even going to be sitting in these chairs so you were i'll probably abstain you're welcome to abstain or do whatever you want come uh next those will be on december 19th i believe um like i said that was at the behest of the board being reappointed so um with that we are going on to our closed meeting it's about 4 20 if we could meet for closed session at 4 30.

[02:46:35] good evening we are coming back from closed session before we start our evening session um can i get a motion to certify please so move madam chair motion made by supervisor bailey

[02:47:10] seconded by supervisor lawson any discussion yeah madam chair supervisor bode just very quickly um just for the public's uh information we have one more item after the mean that we were going back into closed session for but this is to certify all the things we discussed during closed session between meetings good call okay uh seeing no further discussion please vote supervisor franklin thank you vote unanimous okay we have three items to report add on and then also i'm going to turn it over to the county executive for a personnel announcement i'll start with supervisor lawson

[02:47:49] has two thank you madam chair um i'd like to move forward the authorizations of settlement for the Acquisition of property interest on and across property located at 9900 Pennsylvania Avenue, owned by McDonald's Corporation. Second. Motion made by Supervisor Lawson, seconded by Vice Chair Boat.

[02:48:07] Any discussion? Seeing none, please vote. Supervisor Franklin? Aye. Thank you. Vote unanimous. You have another one? Yep.

[02:48:22] Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. So my apologies to those who have been waiting on us to come out of closed session. We had a very busy closed session agenda. As a matter of fact, we have another item that will be taken up later tonight. I am going to report out that the board had their annual performance evaluation of our county attorney, Ms. Robel.

[02:48:43] Ms. Robel, on behalf of the board, we thank you for your continued service to our county. And with that, I move forward for approval your annual performance review and compensation adjustments. Second. Motion made by Supervisor Lawson, seconded by Vice Chair Bowdoin.

[02:49:00] Any further discussion? Seeing none, please vote. Supervisor Franklin? Aye. Thank you. Vote unanimous. Now we have Supervisor Bailey reporting out on our other issue.

[02:49:15] Thank you, Madam Chair. As Supervisor Lawson said, we did have a robust closed session. And in that, County Executive, we thank you for a year of great service. We appreciate all that you've done. And with that, Madam Chair, I move, as the discussion went, in closed session, the County Executive Annual Performance Review and Compensation Adjustment.

[02:49:38] second motion made by supervisor bailey seconded by vice chair bode any discussion seeing none please vote supervisor franklin aye thank you vote unanimous supervisor we are abstaining from vote okay i didn't forget anything right we can go on to 7 30. okay so we are now on to our oh it's only five minutes oh my gosh yes thank you okay super uh mr yeah chris shorter thank you madam chair and members of the board i want to just acknowledge and appreciate your

[02:50:16] support for my appointment of Ms. Tanya Stern to be our next planning director. Ms. Stern I want to invite you up to say a few words and as you stand I just want to acknowledge Wade Hugh our deputy CXO and the entire leadership team in planning. Obviously they work extremely hard. Wade has led us through a recruitment process that we can all be proud of and I just wanted to acknowledge the planning team. So Ms. Stern, welcome and congratulations. Thank you all very much.

[02:50:49] Excuse me. Good evening. I am Tanya Washington Stern, and I am incredibly honored to be to have been selected as the new planning director for Prince William County. I am a third generation native Washingtonian who has grown up in the Washington, D.C. region and currently have lived in Fairfax County for seven years. But prior to that, I was a resident of Prince William County for five years. I am excited for this opportunity to return to Prince William County and to bring my experience and expertise as a regional planning leader in Montgomery County and Washington, D.C., to lead the Prince William County Planning Office into its next chapter of excellence and service

[02:51:28] in the county. During my time in Washington, D.C. and in Montgomery County, I have served as Deputy Planning Director at the D.C. Office of Planning, and in Montgomery County, I have served as both Deputy Planning Director and Acting Planning Director in Montgomery County, Maryland.

[02:51:45] I have almost 20 years of experience working in local government, which I love, along with my over 10 years of experience in the nonprofit sector. So I'm really excited to bring my experience working on comprehensive and master plans in two jurisdictions, working on area master plans in both jurisdictions, development review, multimodal transportation, housing issues, and other critical issues for this region to Prince William County.

[02:52:15] I just wanted to note, again, my priorities as planning director include addressing the planning office's development caseload and looking for ways to streamline the development review process, building a strong team within the planning office, advancing equity for the county's diverse community, and addressing major regional issues such as housing affordability, mobility, climate change, and economic development.

[02:52:44] I thank the County Executive for his confidence in me in selecting me for this role. And I look forward to starting my service in February as a part of the County Executive's team. I would also like to thank Dave McGettigan for his leadership as Acting Planning Director.

[02:53:00] I look forward to collaborating with Dave and the Planning Office staff, the Planning Commission, and the Board of Supervisors to ensure Prince William County benefits from high quality and innovative planning services that ensure a high quality of life for all residents thank you welcome to the prince william county family we are glad to have you do you prefer washington stern or just stern what is it normal so i'm going through a personal transition and by the time i start here i will be tanya washington okay but i still have stern as part of my last name so i am using tanya washington

[02:53:39] stern in the meantime very good thank you very much awesome congratulations we're excited to to have you aboard i know i'm sure the planning department's excited to have someone at the helm and we will move forward into the new era so thank you thank you so much now i can go into 7 30 right okay it's now 7 30 p.m or a little bit after 7 40 on tuesday december 5th we welcome the public back in the board chambers for the evening portion of today's meeting we are going to begin our public hearing with the consolidated agenda where we have three items there are no presentations associated with these items, so I now open the public hearing on items 12A, 12B, and 12C.

[02:54:18] Ms. Madden, do we have anyone signed up? Do we have anyone online? If anyone would like to speak to 12A, 12B, and 12C, please approach the microphone in the back. Seeing no one approach the microphone, this will officially close the hearings, public hearings, on 12A, 12B, 12C.

[02:54:42] Two out of the three are in the Potomac District. Would you like to make a motion? Absolutely, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move forward 12B and C. N-A. N-A, I'm sorry, A, B, and C.

[02:54:59] I don't have my glasses on. Thank you. Supervisor Bailey, do you want to do the second? Yes, but I'd like to add a condition on 12A, which the applicant is expecting, supportive of, planning staff is aware of.

[02:55:15] i'd like to add that if i may sure won't you say what it is okay so with and thank you mr justin patten for helping me with this um for for item 12a i would like to add condition four c is in cat which would be freestanding signs within buffers and change um 10 feet to 20 feet so it'll read any freestanding sign within landscape buffer areas as shown on the special use permit plan shall not exceed a height of 20 feet and that is my

[02:55:54] changed amendment I have a full copy of the changed amendment here that's what I'm asking the board to approve and the applicants okay with that they are they're actually they're giving me the nod right okay okay so do you want it 12 a isn't ended oh you went supervisor Bailey yes thank you so much manager I I have two things to say. I understand that there in our audience there are members from Star Bethlehem.

[02:56:22] If you'll stand please just quietly real quick. Thank you so much Pastor During and your congregation. Thank you so much for your patience with us as we work through this wonderful project. Congratulations. I thank you for your support and your enduring confidence in me. It means a lot and we look forward to worshiping with you soon. Thank you. And then secondly for the Nueva Vista Landscaping. This project was discussed two years ago and so welcome to the neighborhood. We thank you for your patience as well. We wish you well and prosperity with your business. Thank you. Madam Chair, if I can, she can make the

[02:57:02] motion as amended. Sure. Okay. Madam Chair, I move forward. Item 12A as amended along with B and C. Second. Thank you. And I just would like to thank Millwood market and fuel station for bringing your product your service here to not just to Prince Wayne County but to Virginia so folks I am really excited that this is going to be built at innovation town center and I'm really excited and well first of all thank you for working so diligently with the

[02:57:37] planning staff with my office but what I'm really excited about and I think the ladies in particular will be but they're going to have people fill up your your gas tank so you don't have to get out of your car which i i like that idea so anyway thank you very good we have a motion and a seconded motion on the floor hearing no further discussion please vote supervisor franklin aye thank you vote unanimous okay congratulations thank you thank you all for coming out this evening and

[02:58:10] thank you for doing business in prince william county okay um we're now on to our public hearing

[03:00:23] standard agenda item where we have agenda where we have one item there is no new presentation associated with this item so i will open officially open the public hearing on item 13a there are currently 10 people in the area who have signed up to speak everyone is allowed three minutes to speak please say your name and generally where you live or your magisterial district at the beginning of your remarks i will call up the first five and then after that the second five Our first five people are Gloria, and I don't have a last name,

[03:01:02] Conica McFadden, Melanie West, Zichelle Bloom, and Kiara Taylor. It's more of a handwriting problem with me. Did everybody get that?

[03:01:19] And if you could just state your name and generally where you live in the county. Thank you. My name is Gloria. Connor, I live in Potomac Shores. I'm here representing our community because we are not being heard. we're talking about, we're being accused of not wanting a business that releases guns into the neighborhood because of Second Amendment. This is how Second Amendment works. You can respect and own guns and not oppose Second Amendment, but you may not want to live next door to a gun shop.

[03:01:55] You may go to a strip club, but not want to live next door to a strip club. Two things can be true. You can own a gun but not want to live in a neighborhood that releases them. We have military, active, disabled, retired.

[03:02:11] You're going to take their voices away? We're not being heard. We've been calling, emailing, all the things. And we want that to stop because we don't feel like we're being heard. And there's no way to oppose this.

[03:02:27] It's just being pushed into our neighborhood. If you say anything, someone says, oh, Second Amendment, right? second amendment we're we have a gun club in our community we're not anti second amendment so what we're going to do we've been approached by a law firm we're going to file a class action lawsuit sue the county the board the zoning whoever everyone that puts their hands on this and pushes this into our community when we are saying to you we don't want this you're going to tell veterans who are proud fighters for our country and they say they don't want this you're going to

[03:03:02] ignore them. So we're going to leave this up to a jury because we're filing a class action lawsuit effective January. We're sick of it. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening. My name is Kenesha McFadden. I live in Potomac Shores in the same area as where this business will take place.

[03:03:37] I'm going to echo what the previous speaker said. We're not, I'm not against any guns. I'm not against owning guns. I just wouldn't want guns sold in my neighborhood where I bought a house that cost almost a million dollars, moved in the back of a neighborhood to be out of sight, out of mind. I am a veteran. I do have PTSD. I do want to feel safe. I don't want unnecessary

[03:04:09] traffic coming in and out the neighborhood that wouldn't normally come back there. I also would like y'all to take into consideration that where this business is located it is at least three schools not to mention Colvington Elementary School having trailers out on the lawn that's not secured anything can happen I just feel like if someone want to open a gun business

[03:04:46] they get a commercial place and they can sell the guns just not in our neighborhood we didn't move out here for something like this to take place. I find it hard to believe that y'all can make rules and enforce rules that we can't rent our basement out. We can't use our house as an Airbnb if the military sent us somewhere else. Y'all can make rules for everything else, but you can't stop someone from selling guns in our neighborhood. But you can tell me I can't park two cars in my

[03:05:23] driveway i can't do this i can't do that i just feel like we elected y'all we voted for y'all for y'all to fight for our rights i want y'all to fight for my rights i want y'all to stand up for this and stop letting it keep carry on and carry on and carry on i'm not against guns i'm not against businesses i did not buy in this neighborhood for someone to sell guns and i

[03:06:00] everybody that opposed what I'm saying is saying it's a fear tag this this is that this is real if you watch the news and you see what's going on and the climate we are in in the U.S. right now with people shooting up schools I find it hard to believe that y'all don't understand where I'm coming from my son a couple of weeks ago sent a message he crying he's scared he's in the closet it at school. Thank you. Because something is going on. Thank you. Your time is up, but thank

[03:06:40] you. Next speaker, please. Yes, hi. My name is Zusha Blumen, and I've lived in Potomac Shores for five years. Potomac Shores is a beautiful, it's a small, knit, it's a family-oriented neighborhood. It's a beautiful neighborhood in Woodbridge. Before I moved into Woodbridge, people used to call Woodbridge Hoodbridge because of the violence, and people were afraid because of the amount of African-Americans that live in Woodbridge.

[03:07:04] We need to stay away from that. We need to get away from that. Why do we need to have another gun in our neighborhood? That's not what we want. We want something different. We want more STEM programs. We want more math. We want better schools. That's what we need to focus on is the future and not in the past.

[03:07:19] I read a study that only 1% of crimes committed is for self-defense. NRA, they use that. A lot of African Americans are getting guns now because they're afraid of pro-Trump people. They're afraid of the racism. And then the people, the Caucasian people who want guns, it's because they're afraid of African Americans, of the violence that they're going to commit.

[03:07:39] So it's just, it's all in the mind. And I just don't want to see that in our neighborhood. It is going to change the character of our neighborhood. After one gun store, one residential gun business, they're going to have another one, then another one, and then another one. When are we going to stop and say, no more, no more?

[03:07:56] Let's deal with the issue. The issue is mental. Let's put the morals with the gun violence. gun ownership. If we want to have a gun, let's talk about life. Life is more important than anything else, and that's my problem. I do not want it in our neighborhood. We do not need it.

[03:08:12] We have a beautiful, safe neighborhood, and it's going to change the dynamics of our neighborhood, and we don't want that. We want something different in Woodbridge. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening. I'm Kiara Taylor, and I live in Potomac Shores, and I have lived there for 18 months. I do have two girls and I want my girls to feel safe. I have a six-year-old and an eight-year-old and they need to feel safe in Potomac Shores and owning a gun store in my neighborhood can't happen and that's all I have to say. Thank you. Before the next speaker, I'm going to call up the next

[03:08:46] five if you can line up in the back. Bill Billard, Jay Hart, Alicia Gloss, Alan Gloss, and Abadur Rashid. Please proceed. Good evening. My name is Melanie Wiest and I live in the Potomac district i wanted to give the residents of potomac shores a chance to speak first this is their neighborhood their community that is going to be affected by the opening of this uh home-based gun shop i'm of course a volunteer with mom's demand action and i'm here to request that the board

[03:09:21] deny the special use permit for the gun shop in potomac shores and i wish to speak tonight using facts. Gun shops are prone to trafficking, cannot be properly regulated, and do not belong next to schools. All of the information that I share tonight comes from every town, USA, and has been fact-checked and is based on research. In this Comte, we have a problem with crime. Crime is up seven percent this year, and we also have a really big problem with firearms being stolen out of

[03:09:54] cars. Nationally, there are roughly five incidents per day where firearms go missing from gun dealers through robbery, burglary, larceny, or other loss. National data from Everytown, USA, states that in 2021, over 10,300 guns were either lost or stolen from gun shops. This amounts to a rate of 28 guns per day, likely moving from legal to illegal markets where they can be trafficked to be used most likely in crimes. The last thing our county needs is a newly a new supply of freshly trafficked

[03:10:31] guns. It is very difficult to regulate and inspect these types of gun shops. The ATF aims to inspect each licensed dealer every three years. National data from 2022 showed it only inspected 7,300 dealers or nine percent of FFLs leaving the agency well short of its stated goal. At this rate a gun dealer could expect to be inspected every 10 years, and in some cases, it's longer. A gun shop that resides in a neighborhood should need regular and even more frequent inspections to be safely

[03:11:08] operated. Finally, the proposed shop is too close to schools, and a neighborhood sports complex resides within, I believe, three or less than two miles of an elementary school. The applicant's Neighbors have spoken out strongly against the gun shop in their neighborhood.

[03:11:28] Their right to a community where they feel safe is as important as the applicant's rights, and their opposition needs to be considered in the board's decision. I have personally witnessed our board of supervisors spend long, long, feels like hours, but probably not, on the safety of many of our businesses, Chipotle's, you know, various businesses that come into our county.

[03:11:55] And I don't see that being done with this gun shop in the same way. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Our next five speakers are Bill Billard, Jay Hart, Leisha Gloss, Alan Gloss, and Ebedur Rashid.

[03:12:12] Madam Chair, members of the board, I'm Bill Billard, Manassas Cole. So guns, there's just so much fear at a picture or the talk of law-abiding citizens owning firearms. It's just crazy. There was a time where it was a common thing to lawfully own a firearm, but there seems to be opposition to people, upstanding citizens owning firearms.

[03:12:40] That's just crazy to me. We need more guns in safe neighborhoods. That's how neighborhoods are safe. If you don't ever heard of Kennesaw, Georgia, there's a county ordinance where every household is required to have a firearm.

[03:12:56] Guess what? There's no break-ins. There's no violent crime. Criminals don't go there. Unless you're pro-criminal, then, of course, you would be against something like that. So when it comes to gun dealership, what they do is have, contrary to popular belief, they have background checks.

[03:13:14] They are not going to sail to without doing a background check on somebody because they don't want to sail to a heinous criminal because they'll be civilly liable. It's common sense. There's no such thing as a gun show loophole or some bad guy that's going to come in and try to, you know, with the means, motive, and intent to do violent crime in a neighborhood like that.

[03:13:35] That's not how it works. So I think you should go forward with this special use permit and not listen to all this heinous, gunophobic bigotry that's coming from people who are motivated by fear, propaganda, and just downright lies that you see on social media, mainstream media, and other sources of alternative media.

[03:13:55] It's all lies. Do research. Do your homework. Don't listen to all these emotional pleas from special interest groups out there. It's all bogus. Take it from someone with a military and a law enforcement background. Thank you. Thank you.

[03:14:10] Next speaker, please. Good evening. My name is Jay Hart. I'm from the Potomac District. For my neighbors that live in Potomac Shores, you have a new neighborhood. I live in the neighborhood next to you, Southbridge. We're 23 years old.

[03:14:27] When we moved there 13 years ago, you could leave your garage door open all night, and you'd expect everything to still be in it the next morning. So if you live in Potomac Shores, I just want to ask you, by a show of hands, do you leave your house unlocked right now?

[03:14:43] Do you leave your garage door open? Go ahead, show me. Show me your hands. Oh, you do. Every night. You're asking for it, okay? Crime in our neighborhood is up. You do not leave your doors unlocked at night. You do not leave your garage doors unlocked.

[03:14:58] My neighbor had her Lexus stolen out of her driveway, and her son's car was taken as well. She lost almost two cars in one night, okay? That's the kind of crime we've got in the area. If you haven't looked at the recent crime statistics in your area, there were two assaults and one a robbery within the last area just shortly, just within the last week or so.

[03:15:19] It's coming your way. You just don't know it. It's there. My wife and I have noticed a fundamental difference in our neighborhood over the last 13 years. It's coming your way. And why is that? Because you're in a fluent neighborhood.

[03:15:36] You talk about you can't park two cars in your driveway. That's your HOA. That is not the county. In my neighborhood, you can park as many cars as you want in the neighborhood and on the street. I live in a cul-de-sac.

[03:15:52] There are six homes in my cul-de-sac. At one point, two of those homes had 23 cars either in their yard or on the street. It's coming your way. You need to get ahead of that. Lastly, for everyone in here, I want you to do an exercise.

[03:16:12] I want you to go home, and I want you to call 911. Tell them that you've got a break-in occurring, and then I want you to start a stopwatch, And I want you to see how long it takes the cops to respond to that. And just remember, let's just say it's three minutes.

[03:16:27] That's three minutes that you might be fighting for your life. You better give yourself a fighting chance there. Because if not, the cops are just going to sweep up the pieces from you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening, everybody.

[03:16:43] I just want to refer my last two speakers. They're mixed up with something. I'm sorry, can you please state your name and generally where you live? My first name is Abedur Rashid. And I live in Potomac Shore, where the applicant is 60 feet from his home. The two previous speakers spoke about guns.

[03:17:00] We are not against guns. We never say we are against guns. We are against the business in the neighborhood. The neighborhood we are living peacefully, and we intend to live here peacefully. It's a cul-de-sac. It's not a go-through road. It's not a traffic.

[03:17:15] The traffic is in there. So we don't want any violence. We don't want any disturbance. That's not we spend the money there for to live our rest of the life. All our neighbors are veteran or military or like a government job holder.

[03:17:32] So we don't want the business there. The previous two speakers completely goof up. We are not against gun. We are not against gun at all. But we are against the business in a neighborhood. We don't want our children have easy access to go and get a gun.

[03:17:50] I don't care what the background check is. I don't care how secure the facilities is. It's still a gun shop. Where it's listed in our home, when people will search, they will see there's a gun shop near your home. Will you accept a gun shop next to your home?

[03:18:07] No, no, not at all. A property is an investment, an investment of peace of mind where you can live happily with your children, with your family. It's not that you leave what will happen to my investment. Everybody, even the previous business owner, they invest here to get out of it something.

[03:18:28] They don't come here to Prince William County for charity. They don't spend money for charity to save us. No, they want to make out of something. So we want a peaceful neighborhood. We want a happy life lead in our neighborhood. We don't want any chaos.

[03:18:44] We don't against them. They're our neighbor. We welcome all our neighbor. We want to build a community, not to make distance between us and them. There is no between us and them. We all Americans, we all have right to say we all can carry gun.

[03:19:01] No problem with that. But selling a gun next to a family home where the children are playing, where father and other people are mowing the lawn, and here is the gun buyer is coming. You don't know his motive. You don't know what he's, in his mind, taking a concealed gun and put some bullet and start shooting in our neighborhood.

[03:19:21] And finally, I have a slide that I want to show it to you. 209 community members signed against the petition. I'd like to show it if it's possible. If you put it down on the overhead, it'll take a couple of seconds to warm up.

[03:19:38] Face up. Yes, we can see that, and then this thing will disappear. So 252 people signed against that petition in our neighborhood, so it's mean it's serious. It's mean we don't want it. We are taxpayer, and we have right to talk.

[03:19:55] Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Alicia Glass-Coles. So I've heard a lot about children's safety. So when did you opposing the red coats, oh, I mean the red T-shirts, ask for the board to fund SROs and all of our schools to protect our children, as schools are gun-free zones and are soft targets?

[03:20:17] Where were all of you demanding answers from this board who funds the Commonwealth Attorney's Office as our Prince William County murder rate doubled? Or when she was pleading down felony armed robbery, which is a gun charge, down to a misdemeanor resulting in criminal serving 10 months just to get out and murder a teenager with a gun?

[03:20:36] Where were you when this board voted to put data center campuses in residential and school areas? So don't say you don't support this man's business because it's close to a school and we need to come out and support all the other stuff. Supervisor Franklin, you had a handful of your constituents in your district last time asking you not to approve, improvement since last time numbers, okay, this SUP, and you voted real quick to deny it.

[03:21:02] But an overwhelming amount of Brentsville district residents asked the same thing of you when it came to Devlin Technology Park, but you snubbed them with your vote and your disdain for the West End. you are so fake. This is a legitimate specialized business. They are located all over Prince William County in residential areas, and you don't even know they're there. No child is going to know this man's home business sells what he sells unless you as a parent are telling them. There's not going to be a sign out there, neon on front of the building. It's going to look like a house,

[03:21:38] like every other residential home. Most of you wouldn't even know about this case, but because it has to do with firearms, you were made aware by certain bad actors trying to push a political issue of anti-gun or your own personal anti-gun bias. This applicant isn't asking to do something illegal. He's not going to go through the process, as this uneducated redshirt lady said, of trafficking guns. He's not going to go through a process requirement by our county,

[03:22:12] a legal process to do all of that, to traffic guns. That is ridiculous. It is legal to own a firearm in Prince William County, and it is legal to sell firearms to citizens in Prince William County. This gentleman is specializing not in all firearms, but in antique firearms. He is a gunsmith. He's going to be doing a lot of repairs by appointment only. If you guys would have looked up the SUP, there isn't going to be a lot of traffic. It's five people max per day. He had

[03:22:44] to comply with all the requirements. Approve this SUP and business as government shouldn't be in the business of controlling how you make a living. And I guess since everyone up here wants to say they're veterans, apparently that means something. I'm a veteran too. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Ellen Gloss-Coles. Immediately after your denial of this SUP over the fall, I immediately went to the planning office to compare and contrast this board's approval of

[03:23:19] previous SUP applications. Looking at the SUP side-by-side paints a telling picture about what this board approves and what it does not. Mr. Dawson's SUP request has more controls in place, less customers, better business hours, and further away from what could be considered sensitive sites.

[03:23:41] On paper, Mr. Dawson's legal business applications seemed to hit all the marks and check all the boxes for an easy approval. Even the professionals in the planning offices recommended approval. I couldn't understand why this was disallowed when other home businesses were approved with essentially less controls. Mr. Dawson even had several neighbors speak out in support of his application, which others did not. So I went and watched, maybe not you, sir, but please let me have my own comment time. I didn't interrupt you. Thank you. So I watched the other hearings. The

[03:24:19] biggest glaring difference between Mr. Dawson and the other SUP approvals was where they were and who spoke against them. Mr. Dawson had a school board chair speak against him. Unlike Supervisor Bailey, who ascribed racist intent to others like she told his board she did because simply people simply looked at her in the wrong way. I will not be that shallow. So why would this not be approved like the planning staff recommended, like all the like the planning commission recommended, like his neighbors recommended? All I can come up with is you made

[03:24:57] your decision outside the facts presented to you. That is the classic definition of arbitrary and capricious. Arbitrary means that you base your decision not on an equal application of the law or logic, but based on your feelings, which do not follow the law or precedent. And capricious, meaning unpredictable and subject to whim. Feelings are not how you run the government.

[03:25:23] Well, this board does, but that's not how the government should be run. It's absolutely not good governance, and you should really try to be a little bit more professional. Mr. Dawson has become my new friend, and I look forward to assisting him and his legal team should this board choose not to approve his SUP application, but I'm certain this board is going to do the right thing and approve his request based on facts, not on feelings. Thank you. Thank you. We have two more speakers, Robert Hand, and I believe we have one more speaker lined up to speak after

[03:25:55] that. My name is Robert Hand. I'm in the Potomac District. I'm speaking out in support of the applicant for his license. Those of you for gun control are provably too stupid to have a valid opinion. Anything you argue can be refuted with logic, not your emotions, not your feelings.

[03:26:21] You don't even know how many guns are in proximity to you on a daily basis. I'm sorry? I'm sorry. please don't go back and forth let him speak just let him speak and go on sir you're verifiably too stupid to have a valid opinion on this issue thank you next speaker please can this gentleman be

[03:26:57] silent if people can't control themselves in chambers about speaking out i will ask you to leave so please refrain from interacting or speaking to other people or or making noise while we're in chambers. Please proceed. Well, I see people have issues here. Number one, people speaking up have proven the military has gone woke. And what people should be more concerned with is our open borders that allow any and everybody. We have terror cells,

[03:27:34] sleeper cells that are coming across our border that are already here, that will be activated whenever someone decides. And I must tell you, the RINOs and the Uniparty, etc., etc., are very happy when you have issues with President Trump. And if you hadn't brought up President Trump, I wouldn't have come up here. I would have left it alone and let the rest of you handle it. But let me bring it to your attention. How many people don't have problems with abortions? That's murder. And the

[03:28:13] highest rate happens to the black race okay and where's the morality to keep us from making abortions so important i mean to me that's as bad as a gun worse actually worse and black lives matter they're a marxist group they have nothing nothing to do with black lives and believe it or

[03:28:44] not. Israel, Israel of all places, did not have guns when they were attacked. They did not have guns. I was shocked to know that Israel did not have guns in their homes to protect themselves.

[03:29:02] That was a shock. Israel, they're surrounded by the enemy. I say that's downright stupid. You'd never get me to live there knowing they weren't, I mean, I thought they were, you know, ready and it's disgusting people were saying things just whatever the disrespect that was coming across here yeah we give the board a hard time but they're elected officials you know and I tell you what you all may be you all may be military retired but you're an embarrassment

[03:29:41] I'm sorry I love America I love the constitution I want my borders protected okay and I don't want to be harassed because i know who is selling us down the river and it is not president trump it is not but believe whatever you want i can't help it i watched this man 24 7 when he was in office and i can tell you he didn't let me down but obama did and i voted for that hateful person

[03:30:20] thank you that concludes our in person public hearing is there anyone else who wants to speak before. If you want to speak, you can just go up to the microphone. The public hearing is still open. Ms. Mann, do we have anyone online? Just so I know. Very good. Why don't you double check?

[03:30:39] If you could just give us your name and generally where you live. My name is Stacey Culkin and I live in Potomac Shores. You've got to speak into the microphone. I'm sorry. Sorry. I don't see this as a race issue at all. I don't think it's a... I'll leave that out. But it's not a gun shop. It's simply a transfer of firearms from typically online sales. It's limited to the number of people that can come into the community, limited hours. It's a legitimate business.

[03:31:11] Like others have said, there's no legal reason that this permit should be denied. There's a lot of fear going on. I think it's a lack of understanding. It's not the upstanding citizens that are coming that are shooting up the schools and everything else there the other permit that was approved was within four schools this is only this is a lot less than that it's back into a separate area again it's all it's legal there's no reason not to approve it it's just fear i understand these people are my friends they are my neighbors we have differences of

[03:31:45] opinions i don't see the reason to attack each other we all are entitled to our opinion but i am supporting and i hope you will support the permit as well thank you is there anyone else who wishes to speak on this topic just approach the microphone in your back and give us your name and generally where you live in the county and you will have three minutes can you reset the clock good evening my name is michelle hicks and i am a resident in potomac shores i want to say thank

[03:32:23] you all for um you know serving our uh county thank you for um everything here's my take on things um it might be legal but i don't want the traffic of of control something that's controlled by atf coming and going in my neighborhood that's just that's just it i don't have an issue with the second amendment amendment i don't have an issue with gun ownership i'm not afraid of guns so that whole narrative should just go away none of us are afraid of guns some of us actually own guns

[03:32:59] we're veterans veteran spouses government employees and we're I mean we're all Americans so no one's afraid it's just even though he's technically not exchanging money for guns in the neighborhood they're buying them online and then he's exchanging them hand to hand at his you know at his door I just don't see that as a positive thing to come into the neighborhood whether it's legal or not not to mention statistics on break-ins and things like that for specific businesses like that whether it's in a commercial district or even residential so i just want to

[03:33:40] put my opinion out there as a resident of potomac shores and a potomac district i am opposed to this thank you thank you is there anyone else in chambers who wishes to speak on this public hearing item seeing no one approach the microphone this will officially close the public hearing for 13A. Ms. Madden, we have no one online. We have no one online. I do believe the applicant would like to make address some of the concerns and if you would like to come up and make

[03:34:17] sure you turn on the microphone. I have a prepared statement that I'd like to read to the board if I may. So good evening members of the board. First I'd like to thank you for taking time to give additional consideration to my special use permit allowing for the legal and permissible transfer of firearms for my home-based business. I would like to take this opportunity to address concerns that were raised at our last meeting and to provide the board with additional information for consideration. I understand and share the community's commitment to safety, particularly

[03:34:57] when it comes to our children and schools. Selfishly, I am also extremely committed to the safety of my family and myself. For this reason, I performed in-depth research prior to the decision to proceed with this undertaking. Over the course of the last 20 months since I initially applied for my SUP, I've had the opportunity to hear from many people both in support of and resistance to my proposed land use. I have heard people express fears about the potential negative impact that a business such as mine would have on the surrounding community.

[03:35:26] While I appreciate these fears, in many cases they have been based on misgivings or intentional misrepresentations, a lack of understanding about my proposed use, or deeply held personal fear of firearms. In the course of my research, I found that there is simply no evidence that indicates an increased risk due to the presence of a home-based federal firearms license holder, or FFL, in a community. While it would be easy to dismiss my findings due to potential bias, please understand that I approach this undertaking through the lens of my family's safety.

[03:35:57] There are currently over 50 active home-based type 01 dealer and type 07 manufacturing FFLs in Prince William County, excuse me again, with 19 in eastern Prince William. These existing FFLs operate in every district and in properties ranging from condos to multi-acre estates.

[03:36:14] Additionally, there are roughly 300 home-based FFLs in northern Virginia. Many of these businesses have been operating for years, yet there are no reported incidents of burglary or violence related to home-based FFLs in the region. In fact, statewide in Virginia, the only published incidents are related to smash-and-grab type attacks against brick-and-mortar FFLs, which are regularly zoned to operate in close proximity to residential neighborhoods and schools.

[03:36:40] Given the large presence of home-based FFLs, the rational explanation for the seeming lack of related crime and violence is that legal firearms owners tend to be among the most law-abiding citizens, committing any crime, much less murder, at a much lower rate than the general population. FFLs, particularly home-based FFLs, are a current target of anti-gun groups such as Everytown for Gun Safety. Yet given their nearly unlimited resources, Everytown was unable to link home-based FFLs to any significant direct risk factors in a recent industry expose.

[03:37:11] Certainly there are individual bad actors, and there are many FFLs that still rely on archaic record-keeping systems, leading to clerical errors, which is one of the violations most commonly cited by the ATF when conducting inspections. The nature of Prince William is such that I'd venture that you could pick a location in almost any residential neighborhood and find yourself in close proximity to a school. Since this board was seated in 2020, five home-based FFL applications allowing transfers, and in some cases much more intensive uses, such as manufacturing, have been presented and approved, three of which were in close

[03:37:47] proximity to schools. In fact, the property which was approved on the night that my proposal was voted no motion has four schools within one and a half miles and is directly across the street from community center and was approved for a much more intensive use than I had proposed. Almost every brick and mortar retail FFL and a large percentage of the roughly 50 home-based FFLs operating in Prince William are within close proximity to or abut residential and school properties. It is not untrue that our schools have been touched by weapons and firearms incidents.

[03:38:18] The school board acknowledges the threat with their recent decision to implement weapons detection systems in all middle, high, and non-traditional schools throughout the county. In analyzing the reported incidents of weapons and firearms-related violations, it becomes apparent that these issues mainly originate from within the schools and involve students.

[03:38:36] Firearms possession on school grounds and firearms-related incidents occurring outside of school hours on school grounds typically involve students and are almost universally committed by someone who is not legally able to possess a firearm due to age or other disqualifying factors. In looking at the larger issue of public safety, the overall trends in Prince Williams show that crimes involving a firearm are overwhelmingly committed by people who are prohibited possessors due to age, criminal record, or some other disqualifying criteria.

[03:39:01] We have a seemingly huge problem with possession of firearms by underage and other prohibited possessors, indicating that most of these firearms are obtained by theft or illegal purchase. These incidents involving prohibited possessors underscore the need for improved diversion, mental health services, assessment and intervention strategies, and stringent enforcement of our existing laws.

[03:39:23] Instead, the de facto response to dealing with gun violence is to attack legal gun ownership at every front by enacting laws and guidance which only serve to place limits on and cause jeopardy for lawful firearms owners and businesses. As the arbiter of legal gun ownership, the FFL is in a unique position to directly influence community safety and the illegal traffic of firearms.

[03:39:43] FFLs are entrusted with the ability, and in some cases the duty, to deny transfers for reasons outside the scope of a background check. Examples of these reasons include apparent attempts at straw purchases, suspicion of illegal use of drugs or intoxication, and suspicion that the transferee may pose a threat to themselves or others based on actions or statements that they make.

[03:40:03] My operating procedures include strict adherence to policies and systems that are designed to mitigate risk to the community and to local schools. Some of these measures include no sales of firearms at the business location. When customers come to complete transfers, they will have already completed the purchase of the firearm from an online retailer and there will be a paperwork trail financially linking them to the transaction.

[03:40:24] Again, and I want to emphatically state this, there will be no face-to-face sales of firearms or ammunition occurring at the residence, thereby limiting exposure to the potential risk of robbery. Robust security measures, including centrally monitored alarm, dusted-on lighting, and 24-7 video surveillance of the exterior of the house and firearm storage area, and on-demand video surveillance of the office space.

[03:40:48] Firearms awaiting transfer will be stored securely and inaccessible to unauthorized individuals, including non-employee residents of the home, utilization of electronic background checks and electronic storage of required documentation and acquisition disposition records to ensure compliance with all state and federal requirements into aid and gun traces.

[03:41:05] No ammunition will be available for purchase or displayed in proximity to firearms that are being transferred. A strict by appointment only policy, which will be electronically enforced to manage and minimize traffic flow. Hours of operation limited to be outside of school hours.

[03:41:21] Availability of off-street parking. Firearms will be secured by industrial zip-tie prior to leaving the residents. And lastly, all transferred farms will be accompanied by a locking mechanism in accordance with federal law. These policies and procedures exceed the requirements of state and federal law and are based on both farm industry best practices and on the traffic limits and mitigations placed on zoned by right businesses operating under home employment certificates such as my existing notary business. It may surprise you to learn that many of these measures align directly with policy suggestions from every town for gun safety. My commitment to these practices will ensure that the business operates discreetly and securely without any

[03:41:58] undue impact on the neighborhood or local schools. Moreover, this business will provide a valuable service to our community. It will enable responsible firearms owners to access services they need in compliance with the law, thus promoting legal and responsible firearms ownership. The business will also champion safe firearm storage as a critical first step in eliminating firearm theft as a source of crime guns. In the time since our last meeting, the county approved the home occupancy certificate that I had applied for in May. I submitted this more limited scope application after the first request for referral of my SUP by the board, with the intent that it would allow me to start the process of obtaining the required licensure in advance of my SUP.

[03:42:38] This has allowed for the completion of my FBI background check and on-site interview with my industry operations investigator, resulting in the issuance of my FFL on December 1st. I'm looking forward to launching my e-commerce site in the first quarter of 2024, and at this time, the SUP to allow transfers is the final barrier to being able to fully execute on my business plan in conclusion the track record of similar businesses within the county and surrounding area combined with the specific safety measures i have outlined strongly supports the assertion that my business will not increase risk to the public or school safety i am dedicated to maintaining the highest standards of safety and responsibility ensuring that our community remains a safe place

[03:43:15] for everyone and remaining in ensuring that our community remains a safe place for everyone i respectfully ask for your support in this endeavor and i once again thank you for considering my proposal thank you for your time thank you at this time i would ask if any board members have any questions for the applicant or staff seeing no one have any questions I will entertain a motion Madam Chair I motion to approve motion made by Supervisor Lawson seconded by Supervisor Weir

[03:43:53] discussion Supervisor Angry thank you Madam Chair first of all I want to thank my colleague Supervisor Bailey for all the hard work on this land use item including reaching out to the constituents to hear their concerns. I also want to thank my fellow board members for the consideration of this item. I understand and appreciate their concerns. I know there's a lot of interest in this matter, and I appreciate the public's concern. I, too, share these concerns about gun violence in our community and in this country. It is a critically important issue that we must address. However, this item isn't about guns, gun violence, or crime. This is about

[03:44:33] Mr. Dawson's request to use his property for an in-home business which happens to be for the sale of guns. I understand people feel strongly about guns both for and against them but the firearms Mr. Dawson would be buying and selling are lawful under federal and Virginia law. I appreciate the applicant's willingness to agree to certain conditions to address community and staff concerns about the impact of this business and given all the conditions that the applicant has agreed to I believe this will be a safe in-home business with the land use impacts being mitigated.

[03:45:08] The applicant has an in-home business currently as a notary. There does not seem to be a concern with the impacts to the neighborhood regarding that business. This indicates to me that he's been able to integrate his home-based business into the community without negatively affecting it.

[03:45:26] He's been a good neighbor. I've served that country in the United States Army. I've been trained in a proper and safe use of firearms. as have other law-abiding county citizens or county residents. I have a deep appreciation of the value of firearms in protecting our country and community, including our loved ones, our friends, and our neighbors.

[03:45:47] Based on my training and experience, I also understand and appreciate that the ownership and use of firearms is a tremendous responsibility. I think the applicant understands that as well. The applicant is attempting to use his property to allow for the safe and lawful transfer of firearms in compliance with all federal laws including background checks. Our police department reviewed his application and did not identify any concerns. I trust our department that if this applicant posed a threat to our community it will let us know. And again I want to focus on our purpose

[03:46:22] tonight. It is not about guns. It is for us the board as a legislative body to determine if the applicant can use his property for an in-home business. The General Assembly has limited the board's authority to regulate firearms. Again, gun violence is a critically important issue that this country must address. However, it needs to be addressed at the state and federal level, not in the context of a single county resident's request for a lawful home-based business.

[03:46:51] We are here today to focus on the use of the land. What impacts are there for an in-home business? What conditions can be put in place to mitigate those impacts? Thanks to the hard work by the district supervisor planning staff and applicant i believe the land use impacts are mitigated with this application that is why planning staff recommends approval that is why the planning commission recommends approval and that is why this board has approved past applications for this type of in-home business and why i am supporting this application i greatly appreciate everyone who has come to the meeting to share their concerns i urge you to please join together and make your

[03:47:30] voices heard with the General Assembly and the federal government. And please continue to work with us and the members of this police department to address public safety concerns within our community. This board has heard your concerns. We have and will continue to invest in significant public safety initiatives in the community, including our support for our police department and other emergency responders. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Supervisor Angry. Supervisor Bailey cheerleading squad is here for you that's good so Mr. Dawson thank you for your presentation

[03:48:10] I appreciate it and for the other citizens and neighbors your neighbors that came out we appreciate you coming out I want you to know that I appreciate you initially adhering to the request of myself and supervisor Franklin when we invite you to have the town hall that was important It showed that, you know, you wanted to explain why.

[03:48:36] All of the details that you had in your presentation is on point. It's absolutely on point. I invited you to, for us to craft an opportunity as to paint your business in a positive light as we go forward because of the concerns that your neighbors had.

[03:48:57] And I think you gave them an opportunity to say what they wanted to say. I want to clear up one thing right now that's been over and over and over again saying that it was a 70% crime increase in Prince William County.

[03:49:14] It has not been. It's 7%. But 7% is still too much. That has nothing to do with gun ownership. I grew up with guns. I get it. It's about being responsible. And that's not what you're doing. It's free enterprise. I get it. 100%.

[03:49:31] My job as the county supervisor for Potomac District is to protect everyone. And I will continue to do that as long as the citizens let me do that. And so I want you to know that. I want you to know that I'm not against whatever you're doing, but I want you to know that I think we have to work together as good neighbors in the Potomac District.

[03:49:53] So I want to say that to you again. I want to leave my door open to you again for all of us to get together and see how we can create, And this is what I said to you when we talked, community safety initiative, so that we can let your gun business thrive in however it is.

[03:50:09] But I wanted to say that to you because I didn't have the opportunity to say it before. So I do appreciate you coming out. I appreciate my colleague's dissertation that he gave earlier. I appreciate it. Try to connect with him earlier so that we could talk about it.

[03:50:25] But I understand your thoughts as well. but i will protect the neighborhood along with you mr dawson and along with the citizens in the back and so i will not be supporting this tonight supervisor franklin yes thank you and thank you supervisor bailey um for for those comments and thank you for um being able to collaborate on this issue mr dawson also want to thank you we've spoken before and i think we've um talked a little bit after the town hall i want to thank you for um um giving us the opportunity to ask those questions in a community forum i know a lot of people appreciated that i think you've been very

[03:51:00] transparent you've done a lot of work with regards to this application i think we are in a situation where we really do have to take a look at how we view these home-based businesses particularly as it relates to firearms we've heard from the community several times not only just at the town hall but of course working with the community even offline we've worked with you as well on on some of these items. I think where we are with regards to Potomac Shores is that this is a community still being built, not finished. There will be some commercial areas. But as I've stated

[03:51:36] before, it is my opinion that this type of business is better served in a brick and mortar location. I've offered in the offer still stands to help you figure out what that looks like, particularly across the county or even close to kind of the areas that we're talking about.

[03:51:54] but I think that would be more appropriate than having it instill a community that's still being developed. I thank you for your cooperation. I can honestly say that there is not one time where you didn't answer any questions or provide any type of information. I think we're in a situation where we just have to take a totality look at this. I also want to thank the community for expressing its views, both those in support and in opposition. I think at the town hall, we have both sides there but I think this is where we are right now I also want to say to the young lady up front thank you for your comment obviously there are people on different sides of this issue

[03:52:33] but you all live in the same neighborhood together okay you all walk together you run together you go to the tide water together and so you all will have to deal with these issues long after this vote and so I appreciate your comments that in I will not be supporting this Mr. Dawson I think you understand that. I think there's still an opportunity in the future to figure out some alternatives, and I hope that you will reach out to Supervisor Bailey and I, and we'll reach out to you to continue that conversation. So thank you. Supervisor Lawson. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[03:53:08] Supervisor Angry, thank you for, as Supervisor Bailey said, your dissertation. Is that what it was? Yeah, that's right. It was very well said, and I appreciate it, because this is a land use case and this you know and with a special use permit these firearms home-based businesses are something that the board has to take up like we do daycare centers and other things and these are decisions that we have to look at through the lens of land use it is as supervisor

[03:53:44] angry said this isn't a case about you know a debate on gun violence it's it's not um if we could have i not not tonight not right now this isn't the time or the place for it all eight of us up here are very you know concerned share share the concerns about crime we want what's best for everybody which is as low of a crime rate as possible um but this is a land use case what i appreciate is the applicant mr. Dawson you did it two months ago when you were

[03:54:22] here and you did it again tonight you methodically answered a lot of questions you I really appreciate that you had a community meeting at the request of supervisors Franklin and Bailey and address those concerns you certainly answered a lot of questions for for me and I just want those who you know have the concerns spoken opposition you know get to know them a little bit I don't know if you

[03:54:55] personally know them but I actually for several years I've lived my husband I lived in in my house for almost 30 years and for several years my neighbor two doors down had a home-based gun business and i didn't even know until uh one day when he shared it with us and it was such a small like uh quiet business that i lived next to him for several years and didn't even know and it sounds like it was very similar to what what your business is going to be and as you said there's

[03:55:33] going there's already 50 operating in prince william county so i would encourage you if the board approves this to just you know learn more about it and I'd like to think that a lot of your concerns will be alleviated but again I just echo the words of supervisor angry this is a land use case sounds like the general assembly is is who you really need to lobby if you have strong a

[03:56:05] strong position for or against but um i i just wanted to remind everybody this is a land use case supervisor vega because she hasn't spoken supervisor vega thank you madam chair um to the folks that came out to speak thank you uh for uh letting us know your concerns i don't want to in any way come across as dismissing your concerns however i also don't want to sound like a broken record my colleagues already stated that this is a land use case and because it's a land use case we have to view it for what it is. And county staff has gone through great lengths in ensuring

[03:56:44] that Mr. Dawson is able to submit his application and be in compliance with legally operating his business. And that is what we're here for. I appreciate Supervisor Lawson encouraging you all to get to know Mr. Dawson, to maybe have one-on-one conversations with him to fully understand the extent of his business. Because one of the photos, as was shown here by one of the speakers, with the weapons. That is not the type of business that Mr. Dawson is running.

[03:57:13] That is what many call misinformation. It's not fair to Mr. Dawson. And quite frankly, it's not fair to you all either because they're not giving you facts. And oftentimes there are special interest groups that will thrive on emotion to convince you of other things that are not factual. And we are seeing that unfolding here. Do you all have a valid concern with violence, with crime? Absolutely. It's not 7%. Make no mistake. It's a 70% increase in crime over the course of the last four years. What I take issue is, is with these activists, these people calling

[03:57:50] for gun control, using folks for their cause, for their advantage. But when it matters to truly protect our babies, they're nowhere to be seen. I mean, look at how you became involved with them because of this issue. I wonder how many of them are going to stick around once this vote takes place. Mr. Dawson, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you've been put through what you've been put through.

[03:58:15] I'm sorry that on the very same day that we heard your case, this board went ahead and approved another special use permit, as you stated, with a much more grand scope of what it is that you're asking. I will also remind the folks here tonight that this board unanimously supported another one on November 17th, 2020, another one on that very same day, another one on December 7th, 2021, another one on July 20th, 2022, the one that was approved on the same day that Mr. Dawson came

[03:58:48] before this governing body, but his was denied. His was denied. And it's not fair. It's not fair to Mr. Dawson, and it's not fair to you all. And we can agree to disagree. That's fine. I don't pretend to convince you all or persuade you one way or the other. But when it comes to being fair, when it comes to being transparent, that's what I stand for, and that's what I believe in. And again, Mr. Dawson, to you and to your family, I apologize that you've been put through this. You know what steps you need to take. There's a reason why we have to re-hear your application here tonight,

[03:59:22] and you know what ground you stand on. And by all means, sir, pursue every single angle of it, because you deserve it supervisor bailey um i wanted to make a final um remark to uh and mr dawson it is your god-given right to pursue anything but uh here's what i want to say to the entire group don't let division drive decisions it is consistently spewed open your business whatever it looks like however we vote but please in this community don't let division

[04:00:02] break up your neighborhood don't let that happen i like the fact i saw you you guys touch hands when you walk by because you are neighbors and it takes understanding and discussion even when there is as my colleague said misinformation but you got to sit down you got to talk about it and so don't let division hurt your decisions and living together that's very key prince william

[04:00:35] county is changing and that's uncomfortable it's very uncomfortable but you you you get to the bottom of things by sitting down and having hard conversations with each other and we can sit up here on this dais and talk to the cameras all day long we respect you Mr. Dawson as we respect everyone that came your neighbors we respect y'all and I know it was hard I know your wife had a hard time with this and I respect you too ma'am I want you to know that but don't let division come in

[04:01:13] neighborhood thank you for your time i really appreciate that we have a motion on the floor and a second um seeing no further discussion please vote motion passes four to two supervisors franklin and wheeler voting nay supervisor bode absent from vote who am i missing

[04:01:52] okay let me i'm sorry let me clear it motion passes four to three supervisors bailey franklin

[04:02:31] and Wheeler voting nay. Supervisor Bodie absent from vote. Thank you very much. It passes. We're set for the evening. That will conclude item 13, and that brings us on to, I believe it's before we go back into closed session, we have a public comment time. Item 14, Ms. Madden, do we have

[04:02:54] anyone signed up for public comment time this evening or anyone online? Did anyone leave a

[04:03:54] phone at the podium? Did anyone leave a phone at the podium? Mr. Dawson, did you leave a phone at the podium oh he's coming drive safe okay um we're on to public comment time uh each speaker will have three minutes to speak please state your name and uh generally where you live in the county

[04:04:27] uh when you're up we have nine people signed up to speak i'm going to call the first five and then the second four our first five speakers are melanie weissall bill billard jay hart bob hand and alicia gloss uh melanie weasel weasel sorry weas oh no it must be weas it's

[04:05:02] it looks like it now my bad melanie weas bill billard jay hart bob hand alicia gloss please proceed you might want to pull the microphone down short people problems oh all right so good evening i'm melanie weas um i reside in the potomac district um i wasn't planning on necessarily bringing up my affiliation too much with Moms Demand Action. But the accusation that I am part

[04:05:40] of a special interest group, I feel that I need to kind of remind everyone that I grew up in Prince William County. I went to Martin Luther King Elementary School, Saunders Middle School, I'm a Hilton High School graduate. I've been in this county my whole life. I became a volunteer with Moms Demand Action after we had an incident between coaches at a softball game where one coach was armed, and it was a very scary, intense situation. So I'm not a special interest group

[04:06:15] bringing in an outside opinion or interest. I represent people in this county, and I believe the results of our recent election affirm that I'm part of the majority. Most people in this County are for common sense gun legislation. Gun control is an antiquated term. Nobody really uses it anymore. We're gun violence prevention. Moms demand action. We're not anti-gun ownership. Many of our volunteers own guns. I'm not afraid of guns. I never have been. I've seen the damage

[04:06:50] that they can do as a nurse many times. And I've seen lives changed forever because of gun violence. And that's why I choose to be part of this movement. And I'm really here tonight to speak, to request that the board please consider proposing and implementing ordinance on park property or over park property that would keep guns away from our kids, keep guns away from families and out of water parks with densely populated people.

[04:07:23] I'd like to use facts, evidence from Everytown USA Research, that disputes the common argument that gun-free zones are related with a kind of come-and-get-us sign for those who wish to commit violent crimes.

[04:07:39] Mother Jones is a nonprofit organization that's focused on human rights, conducted research over a 30-year span on mass shootings. And their research was unable to find any evidence that any of the locations were targeted because they prohibited guns. They found these areas were targeted because of personal connections to places and that were motivated by hate.

[04:08:00] The argument that gun-free zones makes us sitting ducks isn't true and it isn't supported by research. I had a conversation earlier today with a very wise person that I admire and respect who said it's going to take courage to get this done. And I'm asking for all of you to have courage to stand up to people who have extremist ideology and don't represent the thoughts and feelings and the research, frankly.

[04:08:26] Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Madam Chair, members of the board, Bill Billard, Manassas-Coles. So let's do a fact check. Mass shootings happen mostly in gun-free zones.

[04:08:43] Violent crimes, sometimes involving firearms, happens in areas with strict gun control laws. Everybody knows that. That is a fact. But obviously, people are living in fantasy land and think that collective punishment will somehow get rid of crime-involving firearms, punishing people like me.

[04:09:03] That's where I think this is going to. It's a personal attack on people like us. You know, you want to go after us. You want criminals to go after us because you hate us so much, because we're on the opposite side of the political aisle. We've seen that several times, and it's getting more and more transparent.

[04:09:23] and I find that very disgusting. Now, with that being said, if it so happens there happens to be an ordinance that the county passes saying we cannot carry in public parks, I'll make this clear. There's nothing more sexist than that because you're denying a woman's right for her to carry to protect herself in a public park. That is so disgraceful. And I also want to remind people here that gun control has roots in tyranny and something else. Racism. Gun control is rooted

[04:10:02] in wanting to ban minorities from having firearms. So yes, advocating for gun control is bigotry and it has nasty, disgusting roots. I want to make that clear. Now, of course, I'm going to change the subject a little bit. As you all saw last week, I'm a volunteer at the Manassas battlefield park as a civil war living historian and an individual made some disturbing comments about the battlefield i want to make another fact check statement here that battlefield is not a

[04:10:36] confederate shrine troops from up north fought there too and troops from the south they fought for many different things it has an educational component that's why we take part and live in history it's more than a hobby it's a service to our society it's a service to our community to educate people about history.

[04:10:57] So, yes, we need to remove that individual from the planning commission who made inflammatory, racist, and uneducated comments regarding the Manassas battlefield. I find that very unacceptable. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about, but that's why I was in full Union Army getup, because we got neglecting the Union soldiers and demonizing the soldiers in the South is completely unacceptable.

[04:11:25] And focusing on entirely one issue that was political, I could be for hours talking about that issue, but remove that man from the Planning Commission and support Liberty. And by the way, we will not comply with any gun ordinance that this county passes. Thank you. Thank you.

[04:11:41] Next speaker, please. My name is Jay Hart. I'm from the Potomac District, and I need the one-eye, please.

[04:11:48] First of all, again, I wonder how the majority, minority counties, rest of the residents feel about the Confederacy and the remnants of the Confederacy battlefield here.

[04:12:26] We have been removing tattoos of Confederates out of Virginia. First of all, again, I wonder how the majority, minority counties, the rest of the residents feel about the Confederacy and the remnants of the Confederacy battlefield here.

[04:12:48] We have been removing tattoos of Confederates out of Virginia. We have been renaming schools, and we have been renaming roads. So I really am perfectly fine without this battlefield, and that's just me. And I hope there are several residents of color who will agree with me.

[04:13:11] I know I was asked to recuse myself. And first of all, I'm not recusing myself. I stand with my brothers and sisters in African-American community. And I do not appreciate these so-called Confederate soldiers who gave their life under the idea that they can enslave others.

[04:13:33] And yes, those battlefields, those shrines, other people who are worshipping, if they think they are children of immigrants and they have not had any empathy with our African-American brothers and sisters, then I'm sorry for that.

[04:13:49] I hope one day you all can grow that empathy. Somehow it comes to you that we all need to work together to get rid of these shrines and get rid of these statues of individuals like Robert Lee Lee and Confederate generals and soldiers.

[04:14:08] And I will never be ashamed of that. I will proudly sign any petition to get rid of these Confederates out of our county. And I condemn the act of apartheid states who invade other countries and commit genocide, and no one speaks against it.

[04:14:29] So I would encourage everyone to write letters to Congress and write letters to your senators and ask them to sign a petition to end genocide in Gaza. Thank you.

[04:14:46] Next speaker, please. My name is Bob Hand. I'm in the Potomac District, and I noticed that for the past two speakers, my representative has not been here.

[04:15:02] Interesting how Supervisor Bailey is not here. How she can't hear, oh, I'm sure she can hear, but she can't face because she's a coward being told how she has a terrible lack of self-awareness. Now, in regards to the previous vote, I would like to commend Supervisor Angry.

[04:15:22] I admit I was surprised with your intellectual honesty on the vote. It was a land-use case. Thank you. And considering the other issues about it, I hope that you would consider the merits of those applications.

[04:15:40] Our first speaker this evening for this, practically everything she said was wrong. Everything can be proven wrong. Call for common sense gun violence prevention.

[04:15:59] If I could meet Jim behind Walmart to buy his guns, it's not common sense and it shows your ignorance on the issue. Do you want to ban firearms in parks? How do you expect to enforce that?

[04:16:16] Do you have somebody at every single entrance? Do you have somebody behind every tree to check people that will carry? Why do you expect that people won't be carrying knives?

[04:16:32] Why do you expect that people being defenseless is a good thing? Somebody's not applying a full amount of brain power here. we've been open to having the discussions. Supervisor Bailey and Supervisor Franklin, when was this town hall? I understand you might have had a meeting with the applicant, but when was this town hall with the other constituents? I follow your social media.

[04:17:01] I haven't seen any of it announced. We're open to discussion. Listen to the facts. Mass shootings happen in gun-free zones. Aurora, Colorado. James Holmes passed two movie theaters and went to the third one further away that specifically said no guns. Oh, the transgender Tennessee shooter. She passed over a school that looked like it was hardened and able

[04:17:37] to defend itself, and she went specifically to the school that didn't look defenseless. That's just a piece of it off the top of my head. There's plenty more to prove that gun control is restricted in its thinking.

[04:17:56] Thank you. Before our next speaker starts, the last four speakers are Alan Gloss, Allie Stoger, Mrs. Aine Johnson, and Teresa Minns. Next up is Alicia Gloss.

[04:18:17] Alicia Gloss-Coles. At the November 9th Planning Commission meeting, Commissioner Sheik made divisive comments to citizens concerned how the Digital Gateway would impact the Manassas National Battlefield and called the battlefield a Confederate shrine and said, I'm fine without the battlefield, and that he would sign a petition to get rid of these Confederate shrines. Does he think that all that work at the battlefield, countless conservation battlefield groups, or the countless citizens supporting preserving the battlefield are racist?

[04:18:46] Commissioner Shaikh is using his position on the Planning Commission to push his own personal ideology, and by doing so is speaking on behalf of the county. Do all of you on this board agree with his statements? His arrogance and lack of understanding of Prince William County history and disparaging statements to members of this community make him unfit to make decisions in the best interest of Prince William County.

[04:19:07] He should be removed from the Planning Commission, and Supervisor Bode, you should address his comments as you were the one who appointed him. The bipartisan vote today on 7 Bravo was nice. However, Supervisor Bode, I bet the Brentsville District would have appreciated the deference that wasn't given to them and their supervisor when you went against their overwhelming ask for denial of Devonland Technology Park.

[04:19:28] You argued today about a parkway improvement project affecting quality of life in your district, but a data center campus with up to nine data centers doesn't affect quality of life for Brentsville District? Wow. If this would have been a donor and not DOT asking, it would have been approved.

[04:19:45] Over the past six and a half years, here's the stats that were looked up through FOIA with the Prince William County PD. There have been approximately 20 violent crimes in our public parks. Only one involved a weapon. We don't know what was used, a knife, a bat, et cetera. Why are we hearing a call to ban guns in our parks?

[04:20:03] Anti-gun organizations have donated tens of thousands of dollars to several of you on the board, and your votes are up for sale to the highest bidder. Anti-gun organizations' agenda is to disarm every citizen. It starts with a local park gun ban, but that's just the beginning. A ban would affect all concealed carry permit holders in Prince William County, and there are a lot of them.

[04:20:22] A gun ban will do nothing to prevent gun crime in our parks. But you will sit up there and pretend it will do just that to put a notch in your political belt to say, I did something to stop gun violence. Some of you on this board won't fully fund the police to protect citizens or demand the Commonwealth attorney do her job and prosecute gun-related charges instead of pleading them down.

[04:20:45] Supervisor Franklin's idea to stop crime is to ban alcohol sales at 7-Elevens in her district, but do nothing to the criminals. she votes for data centers in residential school areas and school areas and set on destroying the West End. On her congressional page, she said, joining her, join her in standing up for Prince William County families, except families on the West End. And what about all the other counties of the 7th Congressional District? I see that you corrected it. Advisor must have told you that's a bad look. So you changed it now to stand up for Virginia families. You all know what that makes

[04:21:19] you, Supervisor Franklin. You are fake, full of you-know-what. Next speaker, please. Can you get that one eye, please? Ellen Gloss-Coles, what is the county's official position on the Israeli and Hamas war? Your communications director would not touch that landmine when I asked her. But never fear, racist Raheel Sheikh is here to provide the county's only opinion on it. As inflammatory and as stupid as they are, Mr. Sheikh is still entitled to voice his opinions. He does not,

[04:21:54] however, have the right to say them while in his official capacity on the planning commission from this very dais. Why is it okay to know a county planning commissioner's political affiliation? Isn't that position supposed to be a non-partisan appointment? Why then is he advocating for federal foreign policy from the dais? I believe what Sheik did is called malfeasance in office. He, like all commissioners, has a sworn duty to perform his one singular task in the best interest of the county.

[04:22:26] I find it extremely hard to believe that he has the capability to make sound decisions when he doesn't even understand what major landmarks in this county represent. I demand that he be removed from the planning commission and replace him with somebody more cognizant to sensitive areas that are in this county.

[04:22:43] I don't know your faith, but in my Bible, in Genesis chapter 4, God says that the blood of the murdered cries out from the ground that they fell on. The blood of those soldiers who died in America's quest to abolish slavery cry out from that battlefield. and his opinion that it should go away are callous at best while deployed to bosnia in 1995 i had the grim task of exhuming the bodies of slaughtered people from mass graves with the intent of gathering evidence for prosecuting war criminals and giving families solace by allowing them to

[04:23:15] properly bury their dead everything associated with that task still sits with me today the sheer indifference those men women and children experienced in their last moments is indescribable and should never be repeated. Unfortunately, in the media, I saw the same indifference on October 7th attacks by Hamas on a peace concert and door-to-door against Jewish civilians.

[04:23:41] Whether Sheikh approves of those crimes, his support for the group after the attack certainly makes me believe he does. The men who lost their lives on the Manassas battlefield died fighting for a cause. These battles ultimately solidified ending slavery in the United States, something that should be celebrated, not done away with.

[04:24:00] Please fire Sheik. Next speaker. Oh, I'm so sorry. Can I finish, madam? So if we put up that one eye again, it talks about the things that have affected the crime, the violent crime that's happened in parks.

[04:24:18] I hear it. I see it coming. I see Margaret Franklin. I see Kenny Bode. I see you all trying to get in good with your mom's demand folks, the people that have given you money. But let me tell you something. Your quest for money, your quest for higher political office is affecting people here.

[04:24:35] And we see it with the Devlin. We see it with all the other stuff that you're doing. You're not going to do that to us now. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Allie Stoger, Gainesville District.

[04:25:06] Supervisor Bode, your last planning commissioner quit or actually resigned. I believe he did so out of the integrity because of the highly irregular meeting, planning commission meeting for the CPA. We know how many irregularities there are. They have not all been publicized, I can tell you that for sure. That was a meeting that should never have, that should have been rescinded, just like Devlin Tech Park should be rescinded. So Supervisor Bodie, I would suggest that you ask Commissioner Perry if he would take the position again,

[04:25:44] because that was a man with integrity. He abstained on the CPA vote. He probably should have opposed it but at least he abstained and then he resigned because we know what actually happened at that meeting data center backup generators and i don't see the video it is over there okay data center backup diesel generators are the size of trailer tractor trucks an average is 45 diesel generators per data center building of the size currently being zoned to put the

[04:26:22] environmental context in, recently, the Frederick Maryland Planning Commission denied a four-building data center campus due to the need for 168 generators. Gainesville Haymarket and Bristow already have 2,000 zoned that would be needed for the buildings that have been zoned. QTS and Compass would add at least 1,500 of these industrial-sized generators in Gainesville,

[04:26:55] Paymarket, and Bristow. Well, 1,500 more for those communities. Even more shocking last week when the applicant was asked how many backup diesel generators were required of Devlin, she responded, I don't know. Even more shocking is the supervisors voting in favor did not know or did not care. On another topic, headlines from Business Insider, November 2023. These are

[04:27:31] Compass data centers that opened a few months ago in Loudoun, impacting residents who live as far away as three miles with data center noise. Compass states its compliance, but the community is miserable. The answer probably lies with the frequency of the noise level being within the range where people hear best, and the fact that it is omnipresent, 24-7 noise. Residents of Great Oak, after two expensive fixes, are now saying the same thing as the people impacted by Compass.

[04:28:04] As the weather gets cooler, the noise is worse. Please rescind Devlin and don't pass QTS. Next speaker, please. Good evening. It's been a while, but I'm glad to be back. Good evening, Madam Chair, County Attorney, County Supervisors, County Executive, Mr. Shorter, and ladies and

[04:28:40] gentlemen, here virtually and here in the chambers, my family, that's what I say. My name is Aene Johnson, and I am a member of the Woodbridge District. I stand today as a wife, mother, and advocate to foster parents and foster children. Mr. Shorter, I'm going to give you a break tonight.

[04:28:55] I'm going to switch it up. We still have our conversation, but I'm not talking to you tonight. I'm going to talk to Ms. Roble. How you doing? On June 6th, Mr. Shorter, you invited Ms. Roble to the group chat okay for lack of a better phrase i have a group chat with my family but nobody wants to be in the group chat but you invited miss roble so this conversation is for you tonight miss roble um and i will speak and she can convey to you my legal sentiments miss roble our family has received confirmation that the request for production of documents and interrogatories for a legal matter related to our family and the department of social services was

[04:29:32] received here at mccord we cannot confirm still not a level of transparency we cannot confirm whether or not Mr. Shorter was notified and expected to give a response to the production of documents. Request for production of documents. Question number one, provide all documents pertaining to the county's response to the petitioners, Brandon and Aine Johnson, during public comment time and the Board of Supervisors concerning the department's decision.

[04:29:58] I'll redact that last statement. Provide all documents pertaining to the county executive and deputy county executive investigation of petitioners' public complaints. Although my husband and I are pro se litigants, pro se litigants, again, we've never hired an attorney to fight the Department of Social Services. We are pro se litigants. The assistant county attorney has not communicated with our family besides in the courtroom, which is another interesting story, too. I wonder if she told you what she said in the courtroom. We have faith that the imminent date for the production of documents and the interrogatories will not go ignored by the

[04:30:34] county. We have faith that the respective witnesses who were served subpoenas will appear in court. We have faith that the redacted, I'll say that again, redacted and omitted documents which are requested under oath will finally appear for Mr. Shorter's reference. Finally, we've been waiting, still be waiting. We want to say this, everything that our family does is for God's glory, not for the county's glory, for God's glory, capital G. We have standing in this matter related to our foster son. Standing. We have brought this matter to the right jurisdiction,

[04:31:11] the Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court and the Circuit Court. Please remember, Ms. Robel, for every door that is closed on earth. I'm going to say that again. I'm just making sure you remember that. For every door that is closed on earth, God opens a window in heaven. Malachi 3.10.

[04:31:29] Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith sayeth the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you up the windows of heaven. I have a copy of the questions for you, Mr. Shorter. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Three Semen's Potomac District. I want to thank you once again to law enforcement first responders for all they do. And

[04:32:04] I wish all of you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. And may God keep you safe. Now, just a reminder, Jews are God's chosen people and Israel belongs to the Jews. This is biblical. Remember that. Mr. Shorter, you mentioned that they're hiring college students, you know, to learn about politics, whatever goes on. My question will be, will you be choosing anti-Jewish people? Will you

[04:32:39] be choosing people that hate the Jews? Because that's what our colleges are now. They're full of hate. So people, be aware of that. And it's sad that the eastern end of Prince William County are blind to the corruption of this Democrat board. You know, when you have 45 days for an election, and then you have people who are just, don't get involved, and they just say, vote for a Democrat, vote for a Democrat. Well, there was a time that I was an independent voter,

[04:33:17] But after Obama, oh, no, I can never vote for a Democrat because all a Democrat brings is hate. Now, the Republicans' hands are not completely clean. People have heard me call them out, too.

[04:33:35] And it's sad, but this Democrat board looks at us taxpayers as the money tree. And Supervisor Bailey, when you bring people into here, would you please let them know that you voted for a 70% pay raise and that they don't see you in action, like for the data centers, when you disrespected all those people?

[04:34:04] Now, each and every one of you, you may have money, but money does not bring you happiness. So, I heard these people at the end of the meeting for the data centers, they were talking about how miserable their lives were.

[04:34:20] Well, I hope yours are four times that misery because they didn't deserve it. Bailey, your husband has a retirement, but you had to have 70% pay raise. I mean, and you, Franklin, are just a nightmare.

[04:34:40] And when these people say, well, you guys won, you guys didn't win. You stole the election. That's what's been going on in Virginia, okay? There's no honor to the elections. Oh, and Supervisor Vega, thank you for the way you were speaking today and every day.

[04:35:00] This will conclude our in-person public comment time for this evening. Ms. Madden, do we have anyone online? I'll turn it over to Vice Chair Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Madden, shall we get them online? Your first speaker is Nils Bull.

[04:35:19] Greetings, board. My name is Nainesville District and Kat Harvin has been here 50 years. I just wanted to express my disappointment and incredulity for your vote on the Devlin Tech Park.

[04:35:39] When you had universal opposition toward it from the homeowners, no special use permit was solicited or granted, and it passed anyway. You're not even adhering to the rules, which I think is fairly shocking. I do hope you take the homeowners into opinions when you consider the digital gateway.

[04:35:57] Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Buell. Next speaker, please. There are no more speakers at this time. Thank you so much, Ms. Mann. Have a great night. Back to you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Vice Chair Bodie. Thank you, Ms. Mann. As always, at this point, we are going to go back to closed session for an item that we've already certified.

[04:36:17] Ms. Merrill, do we have to certify it again when we come back? But we don't have to recertify it when we go back in. Okay. We are now going to closed session, and we are back from closed session.

[04:36:41] I will ask for a motion to certify. So moved, Madam Chair. Motion made by Vice Chair Bodie, seconded by Supervisor Bailey. Any discussion? Seeing none, please vote. Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah. Vote unanimous.

[04:37:01] Madam Chair. Supervisor Weir. Given our discussion, I would move that we reschedule the hearing for the Gateway Applications as the publication notice isn't in concordance with 15.2-2204 of the State Code and to the earliest date possible to meet the publication requirements and at the same time cancel the meeting of December 12th.

[04:37:28] Second. Motion made by Supervisor Weir, seconded by Supervisor Vega. Seeing no discussion, please vote. Motion fails, three to five.

[04:37:45] Supervisors Angry, Bailey, Bodie, Franklin, and Wheeler voting nay. We are now at our final agenda item for the evening. The chair will entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. Motion made by Vice Chair Bodie, seconded by Supervisor Bailey. Any discussion? Seeing none, please vote.

[04:38:06] Motion passes, seven to one. Supervisor Vega voting nay. We are adjourned.

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