Coraggio Consulting
Prince William Board of County Supervisors Meeting, Tuesday, March 12, 2024

Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2024
Place: Prince William County Board of County Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 7h 28m (video)
Official meeting video (Prince William County, Granicus): https://pwcgov.granicus.com/player/clip/3441
Official Board of County Supervisors page (Prince William County): https://www.pwcva.gov/department/board-county-supervisors

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-11-01. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:00:00] Good afternoon, everyone. It is two o'clock on Tuesday, March 12th, 2024. Before we begin,

[00:36:21] I just want to take a moment to honor Ken Krieger. He's a renowned soccer coach who passed away at age 69 on March 4th. Mr. Krieger coached soccer at Osborne Park, Hilton, and Forest Park High Schools. Over the span of his 30-year career, Mr. Krieger's three teams won nine regional titles and 14 district titles. Additionally, Mr. Krieger was a member of the Virginia D.C. Soccer Hall of Fame. This was a loss for our community, you know, and I want to honor that, and I just want to say quite simply, Mr. Krieger was one of the best, and he will be missed by this community, not just his

[00:36:57] family and his friends. Now, if you would please join me for a moment of silence. All right, would

[00:37:15] you please rise, if you are able, for the Pledge of Delegiance. All right, we are now on to Agenda item three the approval of the meeting minutes from february 6th february 13th and february

[00:37:46] 20th can i have a motion to approve um agenda items 3a 3b and 3c so move madam chair second all right let's vote vote unanimous all right we are now on to the proclamation and commendation portion of our agenda we have one commendation to commend mr ronald l carmichael and three proclamations one to proclaim march 2024 as developmental disability awareness month and one

[00:38:25] to proclaim march 2024 is procurement month and one to proclaim march 10th through march 16th 2024 is flood awareness week in prince william county i will entertain a motion to approve agenda items 4a through 4d so moved second all right let's vote vote unanimous all right thank Thank you. I'm going to move to the podium for the first one.

[00:39:01] For Mr. Carmichael and Supervisor Gordy, if you can come down with me. I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

[00:39:22] All right, and I'm going to have Supervisor Gordy do the honors. All right, this is a commendation to recognize Mr. Ronald L. Carmichael. Whereas Ron joined Mason on August 16, 1999, as the first general manager of the Freedom Aquatic and Fitness Center, while the center was still under construction, the Freedom Center is a tripartite partnership with Prince William County, the city of Manassas, and George Mason University.

[00:39:54] And whereas from 2009 to 2012, Ron was an adjunct faculty member for the School of Recreation, Health, and Tourism in the College of Education and Human Development, where he taught an undergraduate course on the planning, design, and maintenance of recreation and leisure facilities and or recreation management programming and marketing.

[00:40:14] And whereas Freedom Aquatics and Fitness Center was the third building on the SciTech campus, Ron has been involved in some capacity with the development of every building that followed. Whereas Ron was also instrumental in saving the EDGE, a team development and experiential learning center, by moving it to the SciTech campus from Fairfax County.

[00:40:35] Whereas Ron was heavily involved in the renaming, rebranding of the Prince William campus to the Science and Technology campus, or SciTech, in 2015. and whereas Ron worked for two years with the superintendents of Prince William County Schools, the City of Manassas, and the City of Manassas Park to develop the model for the Governor's School at Innovation Park, and whereas Ron worked tirelessly with Prince William County and various developers on the town center project currently under construction next to the campus in the Innovation District, and whereas Ron became the first executive officer of the SciTech campus in 2008,

[00:41:12] That executive officer role evolved into the director of administration and operations as it exists today. And whereas on February 29, 2024, Ron retired from service after 24 years and six months. He was highly influential in developing what we now know as George Mason University's SciTech campus.

[00:41:32] We are grateful for the expansion he has overseen and wish him the best. Now, therefore, be resolved that the Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby commends Ronald L. Carmichael for his contributions in service with George Mason University and Prince William County.

[00:41:49] Congratulations. Would you like to say anything? Twenty-four years. I've been at this podium a couple times. Let me just say, for the past 60 years, I've been involved with public service.

[00:42:07] First in the Army, where I retired, and then I worked for the Army and in peacekeeping before I came to George Mason University. I've always enjoyed what I've done. It's been a very crooked road that got me here today, but I've enjoyed the ride.

[00:42:27] It's been a labor of love for the last 24 years. Nothing that was mentioned today would have been possible without the strong friendship with Prince William County and this board of supervisors. The truth is Prince William, now SciTech campus, wouldn't exist if the land had not been donated by the county to the university.

[00:42:48] So the bond between Mason and Prince William County is unbreakable. It's been my honor and pleasure to work with the county in such important projects that have benefited both Mason students, staff and faculty, and the citizens of Prince William County.

[00:43:06] Now it is time to move on and reinvent myself once again. My wife Jeannie and I will be working together to do something positive for other people for the remaining days that we have. Rest assured that the principles of partnership and collaboration rest solidly in the hands of the leadership of SciTech Campus.

[00:43:33] It is now in the SciTech Campus DNA, and it will remain there permanently. Thank you for this honor. I am both proud and humbled to accept it. Thank you. All right, thank you.

[00:44:09] Now, if Jacqueline Jackson can join me at the podium for the Developmental Disability Awareness Month Proclamation, and if there are any other representatives, you can come as well.

[00:44:18] All right. Whereas children and adults with developmental disabilities constitute one of America's largest groups of citizens with disabilities and whereas people with developmental disabilities are valuable members of the society and can gain greater independence and productivity through community support and partnership with these citizens, their families, community programs, and elected representatives who share a common vision of improving the quality of life of all of its citizens through the development of needed resources and opportunities.

[00:44:57] and whereas Developmental Disability Awareness Month provides the opportunity for all to recognize the tremendous value and potential of people with developmental disabilities and to recommit and dedicate ourselves to the empowerment, integration, employment, and inclusion of each one of these citizens.

[00:45:16] And whereas the Prince William Board of County Supervisors is committed to empowering and supporting persons with developmental disabilities to achieve self-determined lifestyles through community-based living arrangements, employment and other individualized support services. Now therefore be it resolved that the Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby recognizes the month of March 2024 as Developmental Disability Awareness Month and proclaims their continued commitment to the empowerment and full inclusion of these individuals in all aspects of community

[00:45:49] life. Would you like to say something? First I want to acknowledge you Chair Jefferson for your work in our community. Thank you for this opportunity and recognition of the people that we serve who are valuable citizens to Prince William County. I want to acknowledge the rest of the board members and County execs shorter. Thank you for your continued support of the community services that serve people well.

[00:46:15] The people that we support access many if not most of the services that the county provides from the school systems for their early development through the parks and recs for the opportunities for inclusion so that they can develop along with their peers and as adults they take full advantage of the things that our community offers to all of us.

[00:46:38] I want to have a special recognition to the Office of Housing and Community Development, their partnership with us along with the Department of Behavioral Health that provided integrated housing options for people that is affordable and allows them to live in their own place with needed supports and then i want to um acknowledge department of social services for their renewal of all the medicaid applications that have been going forth it is the funding source for the long-term supports that the people we serve require to remain in our community so give them a big kudos and help them work through all of those challenges with us

[00:47:17] and then for the rest of the citizens of prince william county i want to say thank you for being welcoming, for being good neighbors, for sharing your community activities, for being a part of their lives and including them, respecting their families, and helping them have choices to enjoy the same things that you like in your life.

[00:47:39] I want to introduce to you Ms. Elaine Wicklett. She is the new program manager for Developmental Disability Services. She took my old role, and she's a valuable contribution to community services and the of Prince William with her many years of service so thank all of you all right now we have miss

[00:48:15] Shana Terry who can join me at the podium for the procurement month proclamation and if you have any additional representatives thank you whereas the procurement profession plays a significant role in the efficiency and effectiveness of both government and business and whereas the procurement profession through their combined purchasing power spends considerable dollars every year

[00:48:51] and has a significant influence on the economy and whereas procurement professionals work diligently to establish and maintain ethical standards in buying and selling to increase their knowledge of efficient procurement methods to disseminate useful information to its members and to promote professionalism and public purchasing and whereas in addition to procuring goods and services procurement professionals engage in or have direct responsibility for executing, implementing, and administering contracts, developing forecasts and procurement strategies, and developing working relationships with suppliers.

[00:49:28] And whereas the Office of Procurement Services, the Virginia Association of Governmental Procurement, the National Institute of Governmental Procurement, and other professional associations throughout the world engage in special efforts during the month of March to inform the public about the importance of the role played by the procurement profession in business, industry, and government.

[00:49:49] Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby proclaims March 2024 as Procurement Month and recognizes procurement professionals and the role they play in fostering efficient government. Would you like to say a few words?

[00:50:06] Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the board. Thank you so much for taking the time to recognize the vital role that procurement professionals play in making sure that the county has an efficient and effective government.

[00:50:22] i want to recognize this team here of amazing procurement professionals this is a portion of the team that works diligently every day to ensure that the county procures goods and services in order to achieve their strategic goals we celebrated procurement month this year by holding a series of lunch and learn events we kicked off last thursday we had a fun interactive game day where we were able to give away prizes. We were able to give away these purchasing power bars that each one of you will get, and hopefully it will boost your energy throughout

[00:51:01] the day. But we have a series of events to highlight awareness of the public procurement profession and the vital role that we play. So this coming Thursday, we will have a session on p cards and contract administration followed by next week on the 21st we'll have a q a panel of our procurement professionals to answer questions about our procurement processes and then the last one is on march 28th we'll have a session on how to how to do business with the county where we'll invite all of our vendors and prospective vendors to learn about doing business with the county so once again we thank you for the time to recognize our procurement

[00:51:41] professionals so thank you thank you all right let's get a photo right now if Chief LaBelle

[00:52:33] I don't know if I saw you if you can join me for flood awareness week biggest entourage like you're

[00:53:12] a superstar it takes a village you're a superstar like Beyonce all right I love Beyonce all right whereas flooding is the most common and costly natural disaster nationwide but only three percent of Virginians have flood insurance Prince William County is at risk every year for the damaging effects of flooding. And whereas the Virginia Departments of Conservation and Recreation and Emergency Management have designated March 10th through March 16th, 2024, as Virginia Flood Awareness Week, encouraging Virginians to learn more about their flood risk and protect the life

[00:53:50] they've built with flood insurance. And whereas the Prince William County Office of Emergency Management, in collaboration with this whole community partners, is facilitating a variety of outreach activities throughout the month to encourage all residents and business owners to know their flood risk, purchase flood insurance, and turn around, don't drown when roads are flooded.

[00:54:13] And whereas the Prince William Board of County Supervisors recognizes that those who are prepared for emergencies recover faster and can help others who may also be infected, demonstrating a sense of community. Now therefore be it resolved that the Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby proclaims March 10th through March 16th, 2024 as Flood Awareness Week in Prince William County.

[00:54:39] Chief LaBelle, do you have a few words? Thank you, Chair Jefferson, members of the board, Mr. Shorter. I'm blessed to be able to work with the professionals behind me who plan, prepare, train, and educate for disasters throughout our community.

[00:54:55] Right now, obviously, we're focusing on flooding. I've got folks from the Emergency Management Office, from Public Works. We really want to encourage people to have a better understanding of the impact of flooding on your property on your business and when you're driving our community it really is uh very important that you turn around don't drown you'd probably be amazed how often we have to help citizens who don't do that so thank you for your support for for their efforts

[00:55:19] and thank you for the recognition just it's kind of interesting you give someone an award and they

[00:56:39] give you some candy i appreciate that now let's see we are on to the consent agenda um if anyone wishes to remove anything from the consent agenda they have any specific does anyone have any i'm say wish to remove or any questions all right supervisor vega i want to pull item 5g please

[00:57:05] all right item 5g anything else all right that looks like it's it so i would entertain a motion to accept items 5a through 5f and 5h and 5i so move madam chair second all right let's vote

[00:57:32] get your name sir thank you vote unanimous all right thank you so much we are now going to move on to agenda item 5g thank you madam chair um i have a question i'm not sure if dan you're going

[00:58:11] to be the one okay so while dan makes his way up item 5g is to accept budget and appropriate 657 351 in additional grant revenue for access to part access department of justice state criminal Alien Assistance Program funding to support the ADC.

[00:58:31] Dan, what dictates the amount that we get? I'm sorry. What dictates the amount that we get? Good question. It's an application based on not only our population, but also, quite frankly, the amount of revenue that is in the system and the other entities that are applying for grant revenue.

[00:58:51] So I think that's actually mentioned in the staff report that, at times, it's all based on the availability of funds at that given time okay does it have anything to do with the current situation at the adult detention center in terms of inmate population anything like that no it's again it's it's strictly around these non-resident detainees the application is made based on our population based on funds available they make the award okay thank you reason why I asked is because looking at the additional items attached to this agenda item I see that in

[00:59:26] fiscal year 23 it's kind of hard to read this because you talk about the a year that the award was given and then the reporting year so it was quite the jump from 2020 I believe that's also the year that we ended the 287g agreement with the ADC which reimbursed a lot of the funds that we're now seeking to get back and then it went back down in 2022 and then we're back up again this year so So why I ask the question as to what dictates the amount that we get, are we seeing an increase in the number of folks that are being detained at the adult detention center?

[01:00:04] And if so, I'd like that figure, but you just stated that that has nothing to do with the amount that we're getting, that it's strictly based on population and the funds that are out there for grabs, yes? Now, let me clarify population. What I mean is that typically, as is mentioned here on the first page, the amount is provided to the localities, and it is specific to our incarcerated non-U.S. citizens.

[01:00:29] So we report those numbers. When I say population, we're reporting those numbers. That's what we're talking about. Right. Okay, and do we have those stats to share to the board? I don't have them. We can certainly get them for you. I think it's important for us to have it, especially considering what's been going on across the country. I think it's important for the board to be kept up to date and certainly what are the hardships that the number of, you know, incarcerated undocumented individuals is i'd certainly like to know especially since we're asking for additional funds and again folks before the media before anybody goes out there reporting something that is not i want to know because we were part of an agreement before the board majority

[01:01:08] at that time decided to do away with that agreement but that agreement that was in place would offset costs due to criminally involved individuals being detained at the adult detention center and i'm going to go furthermore to say that that is for violations that rise to the level of a felony and or to misdemeanor convictions and so i think it's important for us to know exactly what we're asking for here especially if there is an increase that we're seeing in terms of who's being

[01:01:37] housed here that's all i have thank you dan any further discussion hearing none let's vote madam chair sorry i just want to go on the record saying that i'm going to support it because being a member of the law enforcement community i do know that this is a hardship that the adult detention detention center is experiencing therefore there is a need i'm going to be supporting this but make no mistake i am going to be on the lookout for that information dan and i hope that it is made available to all of us so that we can have further discussion on this matter oh yeah i'm sorry i'll

[01:02:13] go ahead and move it all right thank you second all right let's vote vote unanimous thank you so very much we are now moving on to public comment time so we're starting with in-person public comment time we will begin and this afternoon I'm just waiting for how many

[01:02:45] all right we have five people sign up to speak I will call each of you up each speaker will have five minutes to share their views and opinions regarding matters before the board we ask that I'm sorry three three three minutes we ask that all speakers state their name in magisterial district or generally where they reside at the beginning of their remarks.

[01:03:11] We will close the in-person sign-up list after the first 15 minutes of in-person public comment times. First person we have is Mr. Martin Jeter. - Thank you, Chair Jefferson and members of the board.

[01:03:27] My name is Martin Jeter and-- - I'm sorry, for one second. We just need a fix, the mic is not on. - It's green. Am I just not close enough? Not on. - We really can't hear you well.

[01:03:48] - Is that any better? - That is much better. Just give a clerk a second to get back. All right, Mr. Jeter, thank you for your patience.

[01:04:04] Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair Jefferson and members of the board. I'm Martin Jeter. I live in the Alkawan District. This is my first time speaking before this new board, so I first want to say welcome to Chair Jefferson and Supervisor Gordy to the new board. It's great to see you guys up there, and I want to say welcome back to everyone else.

[01:04:23] Great to be here with you today. You normally hear from me representing the Mid-County Civic Association, and I'm also a proud member of the Sustainability Commission, but I'm here just speaking for myself this afternoon. Look, I know you have lots of folks asking for money at this time of year, and there's a lot of great causes being advocated for.

[01:04:42] I also understand that there's only so much money to go around, and you can't fund everything. There's a finite budget to work with, and we don't want to keep continually raising folks' taxes. But I'm here to ask you to do as much as you can to support the Office of Sustainability and to fund the CESMP.

[01:04:58] Regarding achieving the county's sustainability and resilience goals, time is of the essence, and we have no time to lose. We have a steep, long hill to climb in order to bend the curve on greenhouse gas emissions, and every day we wait to put significant resources into this effort makes the journey that much harder and the goal that much less likely to be achieved.

[01:05:19] Frankly, with the current projected funding in this budget, it doesn't appear that the urgency of this effort is fully understood. So please do as much as you can with this budget now to move your effort to combat climate change forward and to protect our natural resources.

[01:05:35] To quote President John F. Kennedy, if not us, who, if not now, when? Thank you, and have a great meeting. Thank you. And I did not introduce or I didn't name all the speakers. Next, we're going to have Randy Fried, Carl Gretchen, David Williams, and then Teresa Bentz, so in that order.

[01:05:53] And I apologize for that oversight. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair Jefferson, Supervisors, Mr. Shorter, and Ms. Robel. I'm Randy Fried of the Occoquan District, and I'm here to offer comments on the county's sustainability program.

[01:06:10] Later this afternoon, you'll hear from Energy Environment Sustainability Officer Julia Mano, who will update you on implementation of the Community Energy and Sustainability Master Plan, the CESMP. You'll hear about some good first steps that are being made with the funding you allocated using unspent end-of-year money last year.

[01:06:30] I'm here to talk about the absence of sustainability funding in this year's proposed budget. Though I'm the chair of the Sustainability Commission, I want to make it clear that I'm addressing you as a private citizen, not in my capacity as chair. Though I know from discussions with my fellow commissioners that they agree on the need for adequate resources for the CESMP, we haven't formally voted on a resolution to that effect, so this is just me talking.

[01:06:54] The proposed budget does not fund the work that will be absolutely essential if the county is serious about meeting its climate mitigation and resilience goals. There's an enormous amount of work to do, and under the proposed budget, only two professional positions to do it.

[01:07:12] When you approved the CESMP back in October, you approved 25 specific actions on energy supply, buildings, transportation, natural resources, and resilience. Most of these involve not just county government, but also residents and businesses.

[01:07:28] At the Sustainability Commission's behest, you also approved three foundational program-wide initiatives designed to improve the county's ability to monitor and implement the plan. First, implementation of an adaptive management approach that improves our ability to make decisions in the face of uncertainty and complexity.

[01:07:50] Second, project assessments on climate mitigation and resiliency impacts. And third, institutional capacity building to support sustainability, including staffing capacity to go after federal grants and capacity for communication and outreach to engage residents and businesses in the voluntary measures that are recommended in the CESMP.

[01:08:11] The proposed budget funds only a fraction of this. Notwithstanding the end-of-year funds that provided a kickstart to the CESMP, it doesn't do any good to kickstart a vehicle that's out of gas. If you want the CESMP to achieve its goals and to be more than just a hollow plan, I ask that you please budget for two additional FTEs so that we can start on the actions and initiatives in the plan.

[01:08:36] I'm not asking you to fund 10 or 15 FTEs like our peer counties with basically the same goals and very similar elements of their plan. I'm only asking for two more to add to the two we have now. Less critical, but still important, is more CIP funding to support the county's efforts to improve its own resilience and to shrink its own carbon footprint.

[01:08:59] Thanks for your consideration. Thank you, Mr. Carl Gretton. Good afternoon. I'm Carl Gretton of the Gainesville District.

[01:09:29] Why do we need affordable housing? There's always a need for everything. We do not have small nuclear reactors. Does that mean we need small nuclear reactors? Later today, you'll be given a presentation, 10C, regarding affordable housing based on income.

[01:09:44] The solution would be to increase individual income over a long period of time. Does Prince William County want to give handouts over many years? Prince William County keeps raising the tax rate or assessed values. Oh, that is except for Page and Lane residents in which their assessed value now is $100.

[01:10:03] Loudoun County has a lower tax rate, yet their increase for 2025 is higher than Prince William County. Since Loudoun County has a data center alley, is this what we want and what to expect in the coming years with the Digital Gateway? What is the Board of Supervisors' goal for affordable housing for Prince William County residents? Biden says he is going to give $10,000 to first-time homeowners. Therefore, Prince William County does not have to give any additional money.

[01:10:29] Is the goal to give money to residents, or is it to purchase, build, and supply a place to live? Contractors build a location, and then market conditions may or may not allow residents to afford that location. Interest rates, cost of down payment, taxes, and general living costs are going up for all residents.

[01:10:50] We do not need to be the Prince William County of Section 8, or the renamed HCVP. Prince William County Board of Supervisors transferred $5 million from the general fund to an affordable housing-related fund. In the 2024 budget, there is an item to add $5 million each year for the 2027 to 2029 period. Where is this money projected to come from? Is there a better use of this money because the original source of these funds was from the ARP Act?

[01:11:22] If you had $20 million, what would you spend it on? $20 million can be better used to keep tax rates and associated assessments down for all residents so that housing is affordable for all residents. Supply residents with a reduction in assessed value payments. Is building affordable housing the best solution for this county? You must remember that residents will need to be able to be in a location that fits their needs for employment, food, health, schools, transportation, services, and other needs. The location for affordable housing is a highest priority and

[01:12:01] this appears to be in eastern Prince William County. What happens to the middle class that is above the needed measurement threshold yet does not receive any assistance? Should we participate in a socialist manner and give housing to everyone? Washington, D.C. allotted $26 million to their home purchase assistant project and their funds are already depleted just three months into the budget cycle.

[01:12:28] Be careful to depend on and invest in a process that never ends and continues to sink funds into a bottomless hole. Just in, news yesterday, Biden's affordable housing czar, the Housing and Urban Development Secretary. I'm sorry, sir, but your time is up. Thank you. Okay, is quitting and moving back to Ohio. All right, Mr. David Williams. Well, I'm David Williams. I'm living in the Coles District, and I just wanted to address you today a little bit about the budget

[01:13:03] that you're going to be going through very soon. I said now that the board has put Prince William County on the path to making data centers a major commercial tax source. It was disappointing in the last meeting that you did not immediately and unanimously jump right on an opportunity to reduce citizen taxes by raising the tax on equipment used in data centers to $3.70. I know that's what was advertised, but you could have gone ahead and jumped to that right away. Please remember, it was taxpaying homeowners who elected you to represent them, not data center operators,

[01:13:42] developers, and builders. The rate of $3.70 still gives them a better deal than Loudoun County's $4.15, so there's really no need to slow roll and increase to the $3.70. As I've said to some of you before, you have the ability to do something that boards across the years have always talked about but never had the opportunity to do and that is to reduce tax payments not just tax rates the tax payments that homeowners pay on their houses and this is for every homeowner in the

[01:14:21] county every district so please take the time in this budget cycle and the opportunity to actually do this also after mr shorter presented the budget at the last cycle there was some discussion about giving some cushion to developers who had their land rezoned so they didn't have to bear the full blow of the tax break or the tax increase immediately. Developers need to know if they get what they want, in other words, the rezoning, they need to pay the freight for that. I mean,

[01:15:00] if they have miscalculated and not included some of that in their calculations, shame on them. But please, don't coddle these cash-rich corporations at the expense of the taxpayers who elected you to represent them.

[01:15:16] And one more observation from the last board meeting. I realize this is a formal proceeding, and there's a lot of formality required. But there was one point at which, Chair Jefferson, you referred to one of the other supervisors by her first name.

[01:15:32] And I tell you, I love that. I mean, if there's some way you can make this less formal and more camaraderie producing, I don't know what the right word is, but it was really great. And if you can do that, it may help the functioning of the board.

[01:15:51] There definitely has been an improvement. I will say that. I've only watched the one meeting, and that was the last one. But there's been a big improvement. So please keep that up. And thank you for continuing to listen to us address you. Thank you. We're trying to figure out which supervisor was.

[01:16:07] was it bob bob does bob things all right um miss theresa men's theresa men's from the potomac district i want to thank law enforcement and first responders for all that they do for us and i want to welcome chair jefferson and supervisor gordy so bear with me welcome aboard

[01:16:37] but chair jefferson i want you to know that i there's i'll bring this man up later but i want you to know, I have no confidence in the four Democrats that are in this board. And that's because of their behavior in the past. The people that I have real confidence in is Supervisor Ware.

[01:17:04] Oh my gosh, our Sheriff, Sheriff Hill. That's it. Okay. I'm a very untrusting person for a reason. But there's a gentleman on the Western end. I don't know his name and I should. And he just loves you chair jefferson he has a lot of respect for you and a lot of hope from you and so i just want you to know about that gentleman he usually speaks over the zoom and i want us to put our law

[01:17:36] enforcement first it disgusts me that we have law enforcement here to protect us and it concerns me that our leadership isn't protecting our law enforcement and that means protecting them from Black Lives Matter, which is has nothing to do with black lives. They're a Marxist group. They're socialists. They're evil all the way around. Nothing to do with, oh, I just could go on. But we need to

[01:18:10] put our law enforcement first and protect them because they're in here protecting you guys. Okay. No, I'm not prepared today to speak because I have a lot on my mind. But let me tell you, We had 13 military in Afghanistan slaughtered, 3 military in Jordan slaughtered, and we don't care anything about the civilian Lincoln Riley down in Georgia being killed by an illegal.

[01:18:42] And I blame all the voters that voted for the Democrat Party for this, that voted for Beijing Biden. Okay, pay attention to what's going on. Our borders are open, but yet we go and make George Floyd an icon, something to be, oh, he's so wonderful.

[01:19:02] No, he's not. He's a criminal. He's a criminal. But unfortunately, Lakin Riley was not respected, and her assassination, you guys could care less about. The Democrats don't care as long as they're getting what they want.

[01:19:20] And trust me, I don't trust the rhinos either. Thank you, and have a good day. All right. thank you for everyone who spoke did we have anyone else who signed up all right so now we are going to move into a remote comment public comment time we have four people signed up to speak today for remote public comment this afternoon i will now turn it over to vice chair um bode thank you madam chair miss van how many folks do we have this afternoon to speak online there's actually no one at this time all right well thank you again for a very brief assistance with remote public comment time this afternoon back to you madam chair all right we are now on to the public hearing consolidate agenda we have two public hearings

[01:19:59] this afternoon there are no presentations associated with these items so i will now open the public hearing on items 7a and 7b miss madden do we have anyone who has signed up to speak all right this is getting kind of easy all right so i would like to entertain a i'm sorry i'll close it yeah i'll close it all right sorry having that we don't have anyone to speak i am going to be is if there's not anyone in the chambers who wants to come up I will be closing man would you like to speak during the public hearing all right all right just want to make sure you know so I am

[01:20:37] now going to close the I will now close the public hearing now yes I want to make the motion there but only because of this sheets that were finally getting around to remodeling Neopsville district uh it's kind of been a long time coming we we knew this from 2023 we had this set and so now we're finally moving into the phase of actually doing remodels so as you know we've been revitalizing revitalizing the neopsicle district a lot and this is going to add to it very well so i know the folks in that area are looking forward to it so i move uh full battles for them second any

[01:21:14] discussion madam chair yes sir thank you just very quickly um superpowers angry spoke to what 7a was 7b is us adopting zoning tax amendments to bring the county code up to access the general assembly from last year. Just wanted to say thank you to staff for getting that up to speed. I know it's not completely within your control especially when this general assembly tends to lag a little bit but I hope we can continue to move forward with updating our zoning tax and our ordinances to be in conformance with the Virginia code. Thank you Madam Chair. All right Supervisor Bailey. Thank you Madam Chair. I ditto what my colleague just said and I want to thank the planning department

[01:21:49] for expediting we've been moving a little bit faster than we were in the past and that means a lot in terms of getting our projects on par to where they need to be and so the mere fact that you're moving faster it was something that the community certainly wanted and you're focused on that and we certainly appreciate it all right and so i know we have the motion from angry did anyone second before we have any discussion second okay i just want to any further discussion on All right, thank you.

[01:22:21] Vote unanimous. All right, thank you so very much. We will now move on to the county executive time. Mr. Shorter, the floor is now yours. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[01:22:36] Good afternoon, board members. Just a few items for me this afternoon. As you all know, the president signed into law the appropriations bill over the weekend. That appropriations bill included approximately $3.4 million in funding for two Prince William County projects, one $1 million for equipment upgrades to the 911 system to align our cull handling equipment and related systems to the modern next-generation infrastructure

[01:23:11] we are developing. The second is a $2.5 million item for the interchange at Minnieville Road and the Prince William Parkway. Very big investments for Prince William County. Certainly thank our federal delegation and state delegation for their advocacy and support of the county.

[01:23:33] Also, board members, as you are aware, the Transformation Management Office is up and running. I want to just acknowledge and celebrate Lisa Madron for her leadership and fully standing up the office and all the work ahead for her and the TMO team.

[01:23:52] As you can imagine, they are finding throughout the county government just really exciting projects that we acknowledge are already transformative. And just want to, where I have the opportunity, acknowledge changemakers, those leading those transformation initiatives.

[01:24:12] And today I want to just celebrate development services for the work that they did. You all might remember last year in June, July, we had a lot of work to do around the solar permitting process. You all, as a board, moved forward with a $1.2 million budget appropriation to support the solar permitting process.

[01:24:38] And we also committed at that time to explore the Solar App Plus. I sent a few weeks ago a memo to you all acknowledging that Development Services did an amazing job evaluating Solar App Plus, and we have now adopted it.

[01:24:55] We are now the largest jurisdiction in the Commonwealth who are utilizing Solar App Plus. It is a much more streamlined way to permit for solar projects. solar project. So just want to acknowledge, again, the changemaker in our director and the entire team at Development Services. Also want to acknowledge an additional changemaker, Criminal Justice Services. Certainly would like to celebrate that they have been working to implement pretrial justice enhancements to include the public safety assessment. Implementation of this

[01:25:34] new tool will replace the existing pretrial risk assessment and will provide a universal screening for all individuals who enter the adult detention center and pretrial status. This tool is being used in approximately 285 jurisdictions throughout the nation, and Prince William County happens to be one of those and the only one in Virginia. So I just want to acknowledge them for, again, the work of change and transformation. Finally, and this is really a reminder, we are certainly

[01:26:11] in the middle of the budget season. We have budget work sessions scheduled for the board meetings today, March 19th and April 2nd, to provide additional information for several topics related to the proposed budget. There are two public hearings scheduled, one next week on March 19th and one on April 9th. Also on April 9th is the budget recap, the evening of budget recap, and budget markup will be held on April 16th. All right. Budget adoption, if all goes well,

[01:26:50] is scheduled currently for April 23rd. So obviously information is available for the general public on our website, and we are still answering questions and commit to getting back to residents with responses within 72 hours and so with that madam chair thank you all right thank you sorry thank you so very much mr shorter now we're going to move on to um our county attorney time miss robo floor is yours thank you madam chair members of the board we have no items for

[01:27:21] closed session this afternoon i'm sorry hold on okay you head up sorry thank you madam chair going back to the previous item with respect to the budget mr shorter when can we expect the department heads to come in and defend explain their particular budgets by section so what we do and certainly what we're doing this afternoon supervisor we're as I hear topics come up in the

[01:27:55] board meetings I'm bringing those topics to the board which is why we are hearing three three presentations this afternoon I will say that as we work our way through if other topics come up If you all want to sort of send me an email or the team, we are happy to bring agencies as those requests come.

[01:28:18] Madam Chair, for my one-eighth, that doesn't work for me. I think we need to have a vigorous discussion with some of the budgets. I think a number of us have questions with respect to a variety of the agencies and some of our constitutional officers, particularly the sheriff and the Commonwealth's attorney.

[01:28:39] I don't want to do this by email, behind the scenes, sending questions and having responses sent to us. I think that a discussion of that magnitude and with the amount of dollars we're talking to needs to be something that's held publicly and in this chamber before the public.

[01:28:58] So I'd like to see sometime in the next couple of weeks, even if it includes adding a meeting, at the very least the division heads come in and walk through the various sections of the budget. rather than having everybody in here send individual questions and then have them collated and then have to wait two weeks for the responses.

[01:29:21] I think we owe the public more than that, and I think we owe the county more than that in terms of consideration, deliberation, and discussion. If you need that in the form of a directive, I'll be more than happy to do it. But as the chair, I would suggest that you can just do that by setting that as an agenda item.

[01:29:42] First, before I do that, I want to see what it would take. Would we need an additional work session or how we would work it in? And I want to see if anyone else on the board had any questions or any. Supervisor Angry? I'll go to, yeah, okay.

[01:29:58] Yeah, I got it. So, Mr. Shorter, then I'll go to Franklin Angry. Sure. Yeah, what I'll say is certainly, yes, the budget team is doing their very best to respond to questions as the questions come. I will tell you also that if I am hearing from a collective number of board members a need to further explain one particular agency's entire budget or some aspects of the budget, then I'm bringing those agencies to the board.

[01:30:30] The need for us to bring all agencies or agencies of our choosing to the board, we have not done in recent budget cycles. And so we try our best, given the amount of time we have, to be as responsive as possible if we are hearing questions.

[01:30:48] And our agency directors, fortunately, are here, and many of them are either in the audience or in the atrium. We are always here to answer questions. I'll also add that when we do budget hearings, formal budget hearings, that our agency directors are, again, always here to answer specific questions, but to actually come with formal presentations for each agency, it will take a lot of time, and I'm not sure that we have the time to go through each agency versus answering the questions as they come and making sure that agency directors are available as needed.

[01:31:26] All right, Supervisor Franklin. Sure. While I don't disagree with the intent of the question, Certainly the budget is probably the biggest item that we do annually. I do think that if we wanted all departments to come and present their budget, that's something we could have presented first meeting, second meeting.

[01:31:49] I mean, we voted on the calendar where this could have been brought up and considered. So I'm not sure how thoughtful I think that is. I will also say if we do need to address concerns or questions within a lot of our departments, there are a lot of ways that we can do that.

[01:32:10] I don't particularly do this, but I know other offices in the past have had budget committees within their office that they've set up. They've hosted town halls. I know Supervisor Bailey has hosted a number of different departments, and I think several others have done the same.

[01:32:27] I've done the same. There is a way to make sure, because I'm assuming part of your intent is making sure that our constituents know also what's going on. And so there is a number of ways that we can introduce the budget, discuss and dissect the budget publicly without having to put kind of in the middle of budget cycle this grand responsibility on staff.

[01:32:50] I don't necessarily disagree with the intent, and maybe even for the next budget cycle, this is something we need to factor in. But, yeah, we're in the middle of budget cycle now. So if we were going to do something like that, I would imagine that would have been a discussion we would have had in the very beginning.

[01:33:08] All right, Supervisor Angry. Thank you, Madam Chair. So Supervisor Ware, Bob, isn't far off with this. I mean, you know, again, it goes back to the history. So back in the Cora Stewart days of the board, the directors used to brief budget, and I believe through him and the previous CXO, Chris Martino, they changed that and took that away from the directors doing that so i think most staff that's been around and many of them have remember those days of that not saying that they've requested this but there is that is a uh a process that used to exist in this county i i will agree with with

[01:33:48] super brother frankly margaret that uh this is something we really should uh maybe discuss after this cycle and see if that's something this board wants to do to see that and then it really breaks down to whether those department has. Because I think when we look at, like, the public defender's office and the Commonwealth attorney, like, those folks probably should have been in here to give a presence.

[01:34:10] And the sheriff's office and, you know, the ADC and all these folks should have kind of been here to give their spill on the budget of what they want. But, again, I think for practical purposes of what we're doing here now in the middle of this budget cycle, there's kind of a lot to push out there.

[01:34:26] Now, and honestly, do we really want to add another meeting? I know we're here to serve out the honor of the people. Got it. But, you know, I think that's a real discussion we can have about how do we want this budget process to look going forward after this. So I'll just throw that out there.

[01:34:43] All right. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. I agree. I think that that could be, in the future, a great recommendation that we can discuss. I do recall, and pardon me if I'm wrong, but the agencies do come in advance of the budget and present where they are, where they're going, and kind of give a snapshot of where they're going.

[01:35:11] And then they do schedule with us individually where they're going in terms of the budget and what the needs are. And for my 1-8th, I'm very comfortable with that, as well as the county exec before Mr. Shorter, Elijah and Elijah Johnson and mr. Martino were very open to us doing budget presentations for our districts once we've met with the agencies and so that might be an opportunity going forward will we look at our budget that we can present to the public because it's based upon what the public needs are and

[01:35:49] also once we've done that just having individuals as mr. Jeter did this morning I mean this afternoon come and present what in support of what is in the budget so from a time time constraint and in terms of transparency I think we have a lot of replication in terms of what is in the budget what's needed in the budget for the community based on the community's input and so for my 1/8 I certainly would not like to add another meeting and unless it's absolutely necessary in the budget cycle all right supervisor Vega thank you Madam Chair, I just want clarification. Supervisor Weir, are you asking for every

[01:36:29] department head? At least every quadrant head. Okay, that sounds a little more reasonable than every department head. I would have to say that for my one-eighth, I agree and I disagree, and this is why. The most important thing that we do as supervisors, obviously, is being elected to represent the people that put us in these seats. Yes, we do have these meetings with certain department heads individually, but I will say, for the sake of transparency that it's never the same as being here and people having the opportunity to come in person listen or watch at home yes we can hold town halls and we all do but again the number of

[01:37:08] constituents that attend those town halls is a very small number these meetings get advertised everybody knows when we're meeting the time and people do to tune in so the whole objective of the conversation is to ensure that we're giving access to that discussion to the bulk of the people that we represent and so I don't think that we're reinventing the wheel by any means or that this is some task that you know these uh department heads can't can't can't come up with if we so choose to have them come in and I say that because I've already met with a few of them and they already know what their asks are and I will say that many are asking for this

[01:37:43] supervisor weir supervisor bode angry you guys are shaking your heads because they don't feel that what was originally presented to this governing body is accurate to the needs that their departments have and so for those reasons I think that there's a lot of value in having those folks come before the board in this type of setting to ensure that we're all on the same page you know we talk with each other I'll call you know Supervisor Gordy and I'll say I met with Sheriff Hill you know and this is what he said but then you learn that there were different things and there were different asks and then we're trying to put the puzzle pieces together when we

[01:38:19] can avoid all of the back and forth the time wasted and just do it all at once and so I agree that I think that there's value that that we should um you know uh uh have that opportunity but um you alleviated some of my concerns when you said it wasn't every department head because then I would have agreed with Supervisor Franklin uh thank you Madam Chair Supervisor Weir thank you Madam Chair let me reassert what my position has been for years and that is that our principal function sitting behind this dais is a fiduciary one. The number one job we've got is the budget,

[01:38:57] above and beyond everything else. That it will take time and resources for the departments to put something together, you know, a slide deck, something like that. Yeah, I get it. But that's part of the job. And quite frankly, my thought is that this should have been provided in a much more detailed manner than simply the budget sections, which generate a lot of questions with some of the undetailed line items, some of the undetailed line items which aren't particularly fleshed out by the 13,000 line item spreadsheet that accompanies it.

[01:39:37] With respect to the calendar, I was waiting for this agenda to come out. It's curious that we don't have a departmental discussion here, but we've got three specific initiatives. not the three initiatives that I would have chosen as the most important to me or to my constituents for a look at. I mean, we talked about this previously with respect to the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office and the ask for the additional FTE. And I believe I actually requested that the Commonwealth's Attorney show up and defend that budget. And I've got a variety of other departmental asks that I would like to ask the same question and I'd

[01:40:17] like to be done in public. Just because we've done this this way for the last couple of years doesn't mean that we are somehow, you know, tied to continuing to do it, you know, doing the same thing over and over again is the definition of insanity if you're expecting a different result. We've got plenty of time in the calendar. We've got plenty of time for additional meetings. We have plenty of time to push back adoption, but I don't think it's responsible for us to get to the point where we did last year. We're in the middle of budget

[01:40:51] markup, and then the response from staff and the direction of the board is, well, we'll get to it next year. Well, that didn't happen last year. There were a variety of things that should have happened before this budget was presented and didn't. There were a number of initiatives that we were waiting for that didn't happen, and I'm not going to detail them in public, but um i think i think we owe the we owe the public we owe the taxpayers both the businesses and the residents um more than what we're giving them thank you so i i just want to also make sure that i am clear you would like to hear from what the sheriff commonwealth attorney and maybe the

[01:41:29] the heads of our quadrants that would suffice all right with that um supervisor bode thank you madam chair and i'm going to echo a lot of what sures or vegas said because i i too would have concerns we had every single department head in front of us uh during budget season of course affirming and agreeing with Supervisor Weir that the budget is one of not two most important things that we do from this dais um I will also say though that as Supervisor Franklin said I would hesitate to have everyone come out and have this shift in what we do mid-budget stream um so I I

[01:42:07] also do have specific questions I want to ask specific departments they've been named already commonwealth attorneys on the top of that list as well so i appreciate that um especially those departments that we've given staff year over year and they come back with more staff ass year after year after year we're just starting it to staffing plans for example for the police department where they went a number of years without additional staffing so i'm all with you about having specific um certain specific agencies i want to hear from but i do want to retreat back to the fact that we have the DXOs and the Quadrant function in that form for a reason.

[01:42:42] And to me, to be that middle ground is let's hear from the Quadrant folks, let's hear from those DXOs, let's hear them specifically from those high-value, high-interest department heads we want to hear from for this budget season. Let's talk between now and next budget season how we want to reorganize that.

[01:42:59] And I will frankly just end by saying that makes me go back to discuss we've been having for the last three months which is the committee structure to me a great way for us to dive into some of these deeper dives of these budgets not even just in budget season but throughout the year is having committee structure where they get to look at these quadrants during the year and so the the budget and what the uh the committee chairs and the uh directors and the quadrant heads are asking for come budget season isn't a surprise we've been talking about throughout the year so i i know i put a lot out there i'm more than happy for us to talk about having

[01:43:38] specific departments madam chair you mentioned the ones that we talked about uh frankly as a consensus but i hesitate for us to change completely how we do the budget mid-budget stream thank you madam chair all right and before we go on again i just want to make sure that i'm clear so what you're advocating for is again we're not going to change completely but we'll just have a few of the high interest all right supervisor gordy i think this has been a very good discussion I think it gets back to the basic principle of why we're here.

[01:44:06] And, again, as it's been said, if we don't do anything else during the year, we must pass a budget to fund this county government. You know, I've served at all levels of government in this country, at the federal, the state, and at the local level.

[01:44:22] And right now, with the president just put forward his budget, guess what? every secretary and every agency will go to the Hill and explain their budget and their request. But it's done at the committee level. So I love that idea. And then same thing happens at the state level, but again, at a committee level. So I think there's a way that we can look. I think this speaks to us structurally, how we can be better at going into our budget, making sure that we are, um, uh, meeting the priorities, staying focused on, we're going to be doing a strategic

[01:45:02] plan or will our, um, uh, our agencies following that strategic plan, putting resources towards accomplishment of those priorities. Um, but I think where we are now, I personally want to hear from the sheriff. I personally want to hear from the Commonwealth's attorney. I, um, because they are you know they are a they are our constitutional officers they are not uh within uh within this within the four quadrants directly um and so i uh would like as i'm going through the budget i do

[01:45:35] have questions um and some of these are um it i think it's something i agree with instead of us having to go and you know the sunshine law we can't have more than one a conversation with more than one super other supervisor at a time so having it all in here simplifies that process actually saves us time so um if there's a way that we could get the sheriff the commonwealth attorney and then and build this into our agenda for this year i certainly would welcome it uh but going forward i do uh agree with supervisor bode kenney uh that uh that we should look at this

[01:46:12] this committee process so that we could it's not just uh something that we're thrown in to do for two months out of the year but we can be working through this throughout the year thank you madam chair all right thank you supervisor franklin sure um so i appreciate the clarification because i don't think that's what you said originally um because based on what you said christina would have been coming in here courtney would have been coming in here wade whoever mandy would have been coming in here we would have been just parading everyone in here um but in terms of the sheriff he has no problem coming in here telling us how much he needs the commonwealth attorney certainly doesn't have a problem coming in telling us what they need everyone wants money

[01:46:52] I don't think I don't think that's a huge ask and I don't think we need to have an additional meeting to do that I'm assuming the county exec can easily make those phone calls and quite frankly some of those individuals are probably planning to present anyway if not having separate meetings with us so I also think it's important to be clear about what your intentions are and then we probably could have cut out probably half of this conversation.

[01:47:19] All right. We're going to go to Supervisor Bailey, and then I'm going to close. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Bob, thanks for the clarity. We really appreciate the clarity, and I appreciate my colleague's comments. And a lot of this, in terms of the spirit of transparency, a lot of this has been spoken already.

[01:47:39] So the history behind this, as we've come to this part of the budget, probably would help just to revisit that, because a lot of what, for example, not to use her as an example, but I am, the Commonwealth Attorney's request was presented to us maybe three or four years ago and just brought up to date some of it. So maybe just bringing the history back also before some of my new colleagues got to the board, that would help as well. So just wanted to offer that. So I think that it would be a great idea, Mr. Shorter, for us to discuss

[01:48:14] bringing in the sheriff a commonwealth attorney and um you know when we can fit that in and then supervisor um where i'd like to speak with you like again specific quadrants if you want if you're thinking all the quadrants so that we can build that into our next meetings madam chair i doubt that i want all the quadrants but i'm not sure that that is the well not all but if there let's talk let's discuss or if you can name right now you know um we'll talk we'll talk all right We'll talk.

[01:48:46] No, I've got to pull the budget section up. All right. Hold on. Mr. Shorter, you have something? Yes, Madam Chair, thank you very much, Supervisor Weir and Board. So I'm happy to give the Sheriff a call and to give the Commonwealth Attorney a call.

[01:49:03] We will absolutely work to make sure that we, in the current schedule, get them in to present. Bless you. Neither will have a problem coming. We just need to work through which evening they will come. I will say that I represent the quadrants, and I have provided a presentation already.

[01:49:22] If there are specific questions about areas within the quadrants, i.e. agencies, I am happy to provide that information to this board. I'm happy to also stand up again and answer questions or have the DCXO stand up to answer questions.

[01:49:39] But to go through another set of presentations per quadrant when I've already provided for a presentation, is definitely inconsistent with how we started this budget process. The board has indicated, and I am certainly happy during this season and certainly in the off-season, to work with this board to make sure we design a budget process in a public process that makes sense for this board.

[01:50:06] I'm also committed to working with this board to design a committee structure, as we discussed a few weeks ago, that makes sense for this board. I agree that a committee structure will certainly give us what we need to get agency directors in front of the board in a way that is consistent with your desire.

[01:50:26] I'll also use the opportunity to add that our agency directors are ready today to present. They have gone through an extremely thoughtful and thorough process to put their budget ask together and to put budget presentations together.

[01:50:41] So they are certainly ready to defend the budget that has been presented to the board. And we just need the questions, and I will gladly have them come down to answer those questions. All right, so before we go on, just because we're going to move on from this section, I'm going to call in Supervisor Weir to get the clarity so that we can know exactly how we're going to move forward.

[01:51:05] You know, I do agree, yes, the committee structure would be great. And I just want to see, Supervisor Weir, what is it that would be helpful for you? Would it be to have a presentation or to have the person here, someone here, to really answer the questions in depth that you have? Madam Chair, I would suggest the following.

[01:51:24] In order to work within the framework that we've got right now to some degree and not put everybody at quite as much time as it otherwise would, that each board member prior to Friday forward those divisions and generally their areas of concern to you so that we can have those various departments address questions prior to the public hearing.

[01:52:02] So that gives us, what, a couple of weeks? So what you're saying before Friday? Before this week? Before this Friday, anybody who wants a particular division explained, forward that list to you along with kind of a synopsis of what we want explained and then take it from there.

[01:52:23] My, and perhaps, again, we can have this discussion offline because I want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly and I want to make sure that people have the time that they need. You know, I don't know if this Friday is correct. I mean, and I know, I'm sorry, Supervisor Franklin, that you have your hand up, but as I said, you know, I wanted to, you know, I think this is a very specific discussion.

[01:52:46] Offline is fine. Offline is fine, okay. Yes, thank you so very much, because I would like for us to discuss this offline and kind of keep this moving going, if you don't mind. I did say I was going to close the comment. I mean, do you have something very urgent? Well, offline, online, but, you know, respectfully, that's not what you just said.

[01:53:08] I mean, the quadrants are the quadrants. I'll go with either one. All right, well, thank you very much. And we will have this discussion, you know. Again, I think we've agreed that the Sheriff and Commonwealth Attorney, at the very least, will be invited to do a presentation.

[01:53:28] But we're going to move on, and we're going to get into the budget work sessions. I'm going to let Mr. Shorter tee up the presentations, the three presentations that we have. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. So very excited and appreciate that we have three presentations this afternoon.

[01:53:45] I'll introduce all three now and just ask that our leaders come forward after each presentation and questions instead of me introducing each as they come. So we have the sustainability update, and we'll have Julia Stand provide for the presentation, then take questions.

[01:54:04] Shared services update, this is connected to Directive 2321, And we will ask Michelle Atry to come and provide for an update on shared services, both with the city of Manassas and Manassas Park.

[01:54:20] And then finally, we will have a presentation on an update on affordable housing. Very, in some cases, similar to the update we provided in the fall, except that we are now adding information on our timeline around the ordinance, as well as more information on the housing trust fund.

[01:54:39] So with that, I will hand it over to Julia. Good afternoon, Chair Jefferson, members of the board, Julia Mano, Director of the Office of Sustainability.

[01:54:58] This afternoon, I will be providing an update on implementation of the recently adopted Community Energy and Sustainability Master Plan, including an update on how resources that are currently allocated towards implementation will be utilized. First, a little background.

[01:55:18] As you all know, in November of 2020, the board adopted the county's climate mitigation and resiliency goals. These goals are focused on greatly reducing the county's greenhouse gas emissions, incorporating renewable energy, and becoming more adaptive to the impacts of climate change.

[01:55:38] We have goals that are specific to county government operations and goals that are for the county as a whole. So our goals were set, and the Community Energy and Sustainability Master Plan was developed to guide the county and striving to meet these goals.

[01:55:58] That plan was adopted by the board in October of last year. And at that time, the board also directed the county executive to provide next steps for implementation, which I will be doing this afternoon. So some resources have already been allocated towards kick-starting implementation.

[01:56:22] In terms of staff resources, I'm excited to share that the county has hired our first climate and energy program manager. In terms of funding, prior to the CESMP being adopted, the board had allocated $1 million in capital improvement program funding to kickstart county infrastructure projects once the plan was adopted.

[01:56:45] And then in December of last year, an additional $3 million in CIP funds was allocated for CESMP implementation as part of FY23 year-end savings. So where is that funding being utilized?

[01:57:02] There are five CIP projects that the funding has been allocated for. These are projects that were recommended in the CESMP. All of these projects will contribute towards our goals of reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the county, county government operations, running on renewable energy by 2030, and our long-term goal of county government operations being carbon neutral by 2050.

[01:57:28] They also contribute to multiple strategic plan and comprehensive plan action strategies. So to start off, the county has been conducting a rooftop solar feasibility study for 10 county buildings led by facilities and fleet management.

[01:57:45] That study is now completed. Consultants have presented their findings and staff is analyzing the results. This funding will go towards beginning to install solar on the portfolios of buildings selected, likely two out of the 10 buildings.

[01:58:00] FFM has also been conducting a study on transitioning our county fleet to low or zero emission vehicles. This study is scheduled to be completed soon, this spring, and funding will be allocated to beginning to implement some of those recommendations.

[01:58:21] Funding will also be utilized to conduct a feasibility study for electrification of our county buildings. Essentially what that means is looking at how we can convert fossil fuel burning equipment within our buildings to electric equipment, mostly looking at things like heating and cooling equipment.

[01:58:40] When those electric systems are paired with renewable energy like solar, that's where we can see a great reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from buildings. So if we're striving for our renewable energy goals and our carbon neutrality goal, that's going to be an important strategy.

[01:58:56] Next, we will be looking to develop a greenhouse gas inventory for county government operations. We currently have a county-wide greenhouse gas inventory that is prepared for us by COG, but we don't have one specific for county government operations, and we have goals that are specific to county government operations.

[01:59:18] So it'll be important to have that inventory to be able to properly measure and track our progress. Lastly, we will be using funding to transition some streetlights to LED. Dominion and NOVEC have programs for discounted retrofits.

[01:59:37] It's a really great program that helps to improve visibility, create less light pollution, and use less energy with utility payback period of about three to five years. Additional next steps.

[01:59:54] In the resolution to adopt the climate mitigation and resiliency goals, The board also directed county staff to integrate those goals into the comprehensive plan and also reinforce the need to incorporate equity principles and environmental justice into the CESMP as well as the comprehensive plan.

[02:00:13] So as a next step, the planning office will be bringing forth a resolution to initiate a comprehensive plan amendment that will incorporate sustainability, resiliency, and the CESMP into the comp plan. The Office of Sustainability and the county are also continuing to pursue grant opportunities and opportunities for regional collaboration.

[02:00:38] For example, I'm on the COG Steering and Technical Committee that is working on a regional application for Inflation Reduction Act funds. So hopefully we will see that effort come to fruition for our county and also for our surrounding localities.

[02:00:58] Lastly, in terms of implementation groups, the CESMP County Core Team, which is the group of about a dozen different agencies that you see here that work together to develop the CESMP, will be transitioning from a strategic planning group to now a project implementation group, and the Office of Sustainability will continue to engage both the Sustainability Commission, who are our board-appointed citizens, two of which are here with us today, Chair Freed and Mr. Jeter, as well as the Joint Environmental Task Force, which is the collaboration

[02:01:35] between the county and schools for advisement throughout this next phase of implementation thank you all right hold on let me get out the presentation see what speakers we have um all right it's populator supervisor bode you're first thank you madam chair thank you miss manno for the presentation thank you for your efforts thus far over the past few years um i also want to say thank you for giving uh to myself and mayor porta the jet report that i'll be sending to the the rest of the board here uh quite quick um a couple questions here so you talked about looking

[02:02:13] at a feasibility study of electrifying existing county-owned buildings so i imagine that's retrofits renovations things of that nature um i do know that obviously at the same time we have master planning taking place for new space uh you know we have the county-wide master planning going on with matt's team um to look at new buildings here at the mccourt complex other locations throughout the county as we build new facilities how is that going to interact with new facility that we're planning on building is my first question yeah so we're working on the scope for that feasibility study and it will certainly include recommendations for future development as

[02:02:49] well appreciate that my second question is since we are in budget season we had a very robust discussion about budget and budget asks I did notice in this year's budget there are currently no proposed positions for your office. You did mention that you guys just hired a new program manager.

[02:03:07] Knowing that we're going in the direction of having a community-facing side of this now that we've adopted the CSMP, are there positions that you're looking to maybe ask for and request in this year or in the coming years? Yeah, so since we have goals that are community-wide, I think certainly that type of staff support in the future would be helpful.

[02:03:34] Something like a communications or outreach manager. You know, this is a community-wide effort and engaging the community will be a big part of trying to meet our goals. Appreciate that. Because I know that we had a couple of folks from the public, two Occoquan district residents who also tend to also be sustainability commissioners requested that, they advocated for it.

[02:03:54] So for my one-eighth, would love to see that somehow make its way into markup and recap. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ms. Manning. All right, thank you so much. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Julia, great job. You have walked us through this whole process of environmental and sustainability with your team and with your commission, and it's been a wonder to see because you project what you're going to do, then you come back and you tell us what you've done, and that's good.

[02:04:26] The thing that I want to ask, and it's probably partnering with what Supervisor Bodie was saying, There are a lot of grants that are available in this arena so that we don't have to tap into the county's pot.

[02:04:43] You know what I mean? We add to the county's pot. Can you just kind of describe to us in the future how do you see that in terms of supporting this type of program? And then the second question I have, there's been a lot of questions that we've had about the EV machines that we have out front and how we execute and implement those kinds of APRES.

[02:05:08] So how does that fit into our budget piece, or does it at all? Yeah, so as I mentioned, there are regional efforts. So through the Inflation Reduction Act, there are different grant opportunities being made available, mostly on a regional level, so through COG.

[02:05:27] Even on a state level, I know that DEQ is going after some funds to then be able to support localities. So I'm trying to stay plugged into those efforts. Again, I mentioned I'm on the Technical and Steering Committee with COG, trying to make sure that we're plugged in there. But, you know, for the community-wide programming, I do feel like that is important.

[02:05:51] We need to plug into those funds and not, you know, not necessarily try to fund everything through our budget. That's just not possible. So, yeah, it's going to be an important aspect. So we don't see additional EVs or anything being, or do we?

[02:06:07] I mean, because it's been a consistent question from the community, and I just want you to just kind of expand on that a little bit. So COG has not submitted their official application for the CPRG funds, but I know that – What's CPRG?

[02:06:25] Sorry, Climate Pollution Reduction Grant. Okay. I know that supporting EV infrastructure is going to be a part of that application. Okay. It won't be a bare cost to the – it'll be a regional cost. but not directly to the to our county the hope is that regional that it will support the region okay okay thank you thank you madam chair all right supervisor weir you're going to regret recognizing me um before i get into the questions let me just note something you know while it's

[02:06:59] laudable that the county wishes to engage in a 50 reduction of its carbon footprint given all of the data centers we've just approved that are not going to plug into a fossil fuel based grid And the gigawatts of power that they're going to require, anything that we do, any resulting carbon reduction that we do as a county will amount to nothing more than a spit in the ocean with respect to the additional carbon emissions created by that industry's power use.

[02:07:34] To be honest with you, the net will not be a reduction. The net will be explosive growth. So this, quite frankly to me, is nothing more than expensive greenwash. The levels of carbon emissions created by businesses in this county will be several orders of magnitude higher than they currently are.

[02:08:00] And that is a reduction that we can't accomplish, regardless of how many solar panels we put up. That being said, do we have a projected cost for the rooftop solar and then the time and the ROI to recover those purchases?

[02:08:16] costs? So for all 10 buildings, I believe it's about $9 million. The ROI is going to depend on the financing. So that's still being analyzed. It will depend on the buildings that we choose to phase, in what order we choose to do the different buildings and how they're grouped, and then also the potential tax incentives that we may be able to take advantage of.

[02:08:45] But I can get back to you with more information on that. Similarly, has the acquisition cost and the life cycle of the low to zero emission vehicles been considered, and do you have the data on that as well? I believe that information will be included in the feasibility study that is currently being wrapped up.

[02:09:03] But that's part of your budget request is to initiate those two programs, correct? The feasibility study has already been funded, and it's almost wrapping up, and some funding will go towards beginning to implement some of the recommendations from that.

[02:09:20] study okay now leave it at this you know this is listed as a budget workshop topic it's not this is an info on your division not on you but you know if you were going to have if this was going to be presented as a budget workshop item then I would have expected those numbers to be part of the presentation and not being delivered at a later date my one-eighth supervisor Gordy you're one eighth. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Julia. I want to just kind of piggyback off

[02:09:58] Supervisor Weir's question. This challenge that we have coming at us, it's not just Prince William County is ground zero for this dearth of power that we're facing as a nation, brought on to us by a very power-hungry industry. According to our power executives that I've spoken with over the past month or so, we need 33 North Anna power stations worth of power to support the data centers that we've already approved. That does not include everything else that we're trying to get

[02:10:37] hooked to that power grid, whether that is electrical cars or the electrification of our buildings. My concern is that we are embracing a thought process that is going to drive us into the ground because we didn't think past the breaker box. We didn't think about what's happening beyond the breaker box and the impact that it's having across the entire grid. And that is a very significant reality that I even brought up to one of our U.S. senators yesterday morning,

[02:11:10] who also recognized that this is a national security problem, and we're ground zero for it. So as we think about what we're, as we're going down this path, it's great to think about how we can become more energy efficient, how we can become, have more zero emissions. But the reality is um is is like supervisor we're saying it it really is it's like pulling one hair off your head

[02:11:44] uh and for me that has more significance than others uh but um but the react you know the but you know again as as supervisor we're said i was hoping to have more of a budget discussion on this and looking to see what are the the the out year cost what are the investments that we're going to have to make in order to make this um especially as we are looking at some of these um uh you know capital projects but as we look at that feasibility study for electrification of county buildings and these others i would ask us to think about beyond the the breaker box to have a more holistic

[02:12:23] approach to this and what the impact is going to have on our greater community because we we we have a bow wave of of electrical demand headed our way and our depend in the more we become dependent upon that that limited amount of electricity puts it puts us at greater vulnerability so i think there needs to be some level of swot analysis applied to this to make sure that we are not putting ourselves in a place that we from which we cannot recover so i just offer that as a perspective thank you thank you supervisor vega thank you madam chair i'll also say julia that

[02:13:00] There is a lot of data that is lacking in this presentation, Mr. Shorter, for the future. We are in budget discussions, and I think that that data is very important so that we can try to figure out what things are going to cost as we move forward, in addition, you know, to specifics, right?

[02:13:20] What has the office accomplished so far? Do we have any metrics that we can, you know, base our judgment off of where we're going in the future? I'll also say that, you know, protecting our green spaces means creating that PDR program that we've often talked about.

[02:13:40] And it also is the best way to mitigate carbon emissions. And when we look at what's happening in this county, we are going in the complete opposite direction. And I think that it's imperative, you know, for you fine folks that are working in this commission and for you, Julia, you know, to highlight the importance of that because the whole purpose of this initiative is to reach those goals.

[02:14:07] We can go back and forth to when, you know, we were having early discussions saying I was one of the first ones that said that I felt that those goals were unattainable. Yet here we are with other major factors that have to be incorporated in the decision-making process, right, as to how we're going to move forward as a county And if what we're doing is only making things worse, because you're going to come to us for funding, you're going to come to us for additional resources, but I cannot in good faith, you know, give you that or okay that for my one-eighth if what we're doing is counterproductive to the original vision and mission of this commission.

[02:14:44] Supervisor Franklin. Sure, yeah. I just want to point out a couple of things. First of all, I think this is an important presentation, obviously. You know, our previous board, you know, put forth a commitment towards sustainability moving forward.

[02:15:01] I don't know, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think this was meant to be a budget discussion. And I think a lot of those numbers, and maybe you can correct me, the feasibility will be included in the feasibility study.

[02:15:17] I don't know that we meant to fund some of those findings in this year's budget. But also to point out, we also do have a lot of sustainability measures in this current budget. So this is the CSMP implementation update as a reminder.

[02:15:34] Number two, I would just say that it is true that when we talk about sustainability and, quite frankly, environmental factors, we do have to look at our land use and making sure that we are balancing sustainability efforts and making sure that it's included in our land use policies.

[02:15:54] And quite frankly, some of us just disagree on what that looks like. But I will say what we have more of an active role with is our county facilities. And I think what's presented here is how do we make sure that our county facilities moving forward can become more sustainable.

[02:16:11] Even our county facilities are currently in existence, making sure that we can make those sustainable. PRTC, we're looking at making sure that our bus fleets are more sustainable. So when I look at a plan like this, I look at kind of what our future could be with regards to sustainability measures.

[02:16:32] And this is the first time we're doing this here in Prince William County. And so a lot of things that we're going to be learning as we go along. And quite frankly, I'm pleased with what we have here. It shows a real commitment. And in terms of the budget, again, we're already funding sustainability measures.

[02:16:49] I don't think what we see in the feasibility study is necessarily going to all be included in this year's budget, but it gives me a greater outlook to what we can look forward to in the future. So I just want to thank you for this presentation, and I think it's quite good. All right, Supervisor Angry.

[02:17:07] Thank you, Madam Chair. Julie, how long have you been doing this now? You made a year in? Two years. Two years, two years. Okay. So, in two years, and Prince William County has never had a sustainability commission or even department, I just want to thank you for the work you've done so far.

[02:17:28] We're not going to get this right on the first time, and so we're learning from this. So, we're going to grow as we go. And mind you, as I drive around Prince William County, I say Prince William County is actually thriving. That's what I say. And I think new buildings, new development says new opportunities.

[02:17:46] So, I'm loving what I see. I know it's your role, not all completely on you or the commission, but to look at ways of how you can help balance us as we grow. Because it's going to happen, and so you're just playing the role of figuring out what it looks like and how we can do it the best way.

[02:18:03] And so I just want to thank you and the commission and your office as we grow it for taking this on. Because we haven't done this before, and so we'll get better at it, or you'll help us get better at it. So I just want to thank you for that. So thank you. Supervisor Bodie.

[02:18:19] Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the conversation thus far. And again, I wanted to thank Ms. Mano for her efforts. I do want to remind folks that part of the reason why, and I agree with my colleagues that have some frustration about the level of detail of some of these budget asks, is that unfortunately, since we didn't adopt the CSMP until October of last year, that put it in a weird place of having anything in a budget or even being presented because, again, all the studies that are being done as a result of CSMP could not begin until the board officially publicly adopted the CSMP.

[02:18:52] So, again, I hear all of you, but want to offer that as a reason why we're not at the level of detail yet that we could be otherwise. That said, I appreciate the concern of my colleagues talking about the holistic picture of this. And, frankly, that's, again, why from the very first moment that we adopted the goals back in 2020 that get to the implementation steps that Mr. Manon talked to, which is the next step of this is looking to write this into the comprehensive plan holistically, looks at land use, looks at how we do things from a policy perspective outside of just county operations.

[02:19:28] So when we talk about carbon sequestration due to green space, we talk about restoration of streams, we talk about all those things that make us more sustainable and bring down those carbon emissions, We're not looking at just the CSMP itself and just the Environmental Sustainability Office.

[02:19:48] We're looking at all the offices, which is why we're now endeavoring the planning office, looking at that entire policy Bible from bookend to bookend to implement all those strategies. So as developers coming in asking for certain things, those policies are in the planning handbook so they can ask developers to look at these things.

[02:20:06] All that has to come as part of a belt and suspenders approach to doing this. So again, I hear all of you, but we're at the cusp of that now. And so I agree that we need to look at that more, but we're just now beginning to have that as part of this conversation. So that said, I completely hear some of the concerns of my colleagues about beyond the breaker boxes, as Tom, as Gordy said earlier.

[02:20:30] But to me, implementing these strategies, implementing the comprehensive plan part of this is part of that more holistic look, that as our county government then goes back and talks to the power companies, talks to developers, talks to businesses and other folks who want to set up and expand the county, they have the policy backing and the analysis enabled to have those holistic conversations.

[02:20:55] So we're doing more than just looking at the top level, which is what we've been doing up until now. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. And Juliet, the other thing, I want to go back to something that my colleague, Supervisor Gordy said. This helps you build the SWOT analysis. What you're doing right now helps us build a SWOT analysis, and it positions us to look at the very things that he had mentioned earlier.

[02:21:17] So what you're presenting is really good because, at the same time, it teaches us how to understand sustainability right now in the climate that we're living in. No pun intended, but in the climate that we're living in. So appreciating what he said about the SWOT analysis, What you're presenting to us is standing up that strategic plan so we can present a swallow analysis to the community.

[02:21:42] And the other thing I want you to know is that your name and your expertise is known regionally because you're participating on these regional boards. And that's very important when we talk about energy and what we're doing in the region, not just in Prince William County, to make sure the region is taken care of.

[02:22:03] But your name is known because of what you're presenting right now. So I just want you to know I appreciate that. All righty. Thank you so very much. I need to get on my presentations because I was taking a peek ahead. I don't think we have any more questions. So thank you so very much for your time and for putting this together.

[02:22:22] We appreciate the work that you and your team do. Thank you. Madam Chair. Madam Chair. I definitely want to just, board members, acknowledge what I heard here. Obviously, appreciate the feedback.

[02:22:38] I'll say that in all three cases for these presentations, they are on agenda because of conversations with you. These are important topics, as indicated by one or more of you. It was important in terms of implementation for us to talk about this and certainly for us to hear from you, understanding we also are going to hear from the public as we make our way to budget markup.

[02:23:07] it's important that these discussions happen publicly and certainly any direction from the board will certainly happen either today or in the coming meetings so that that is the that is the intent to provide for an update but I certainly hear your feedback in terms of making sure that during budget season these presentations come with as much data related information as possible thank you madam chair thank you and I know you want to tee up our next presentation. Yep. We've talked a bit about it already. And again, thank you, Michelle. This is

[02:23:44] really an outgrowth of a few conversations that we've had and the city of Manassas and Manassas Park being ready to receive some guidance from us on how we want to move forward in terms of our shared services discussions. So with that, Michelle. Thank you. Good afternoon, Madam Chair, members of board i'm happy to present today a little discussion on directive 23-21 just to give you some background this directive was issued in june of 2023 basically directing the county executive to collaborate with the two city managers to develop a separate shared service billing agreement

[02:24:22] that formalizes the mechanics for the annual shared service billing to give you some history and sometimes i feel like i'm the keeper of some of these archives now having been here quite a a while, not quite since 1976, but we entered into a formal agreement with the county, between the county and the city, for the provision of shared services. A formal then inter-jurisdictional agreement was established in May of 1983. That jurisdictional agreement was opened again in May of 1985 for some provisions around purchasing and sell of property, some boundary line adjustments, talked a little bit more about reimbursement of cost, calculation of operation and maintenance.

[02:24:59] In October of '95, I found that there was a separate MOU established between the two cities and the Office of Criminal Justice Services for the services they provide. Those are separately billed. In March 2002, which I think is when we were in courthouse expansion mode perhaps, there was an agreement between the adult detention and the courthouse complex in the cities for the sharing of the adult detention.

[02:25:23] That too was billed separately outside of the shared service agreement. And then more recently, in April of 2016 and June of 2020, the libraries were pulled out of the shared service agreement and a separate agreement was established. On Manassas Park, fewer similar transactions, and it was two years later in 1979 that there was a formal agreement scheduled in that Office of Criminal Justice Service Agreement, and then the libraries until 2020 when they backed out of the libraries and don't share in those services any longer.

[02:25:52] So that was sort of some of the history that I found in researching this. The shared services contains many components you'll see on this screen. We bill for the courts, which is comprised of the magistrates, clerk of court, circuit judges, general district court, juvenile domestic relations court, and the juvenile court services unit.

[02:26:09] We bill for the sheriff's services at the courthouse, Commonwealth attorney to the city of Manassas. At one point, that was billed to the city of Manassas Park, and somewhere along the line, that got dropped. I can't find it in writing, but they haven't been billed for many, many years.

[02:26:25] services is another one which is the other community services mental health services cooperative extension is another one that I don't know that you see that specifically named in the agreement but from what I understand under state code jurisdictions have to either have their own cooperative extension program through the state or share in another program so I think the two cities share with ours although this is an area that they have questioned you know what why are we paying the county for cooperative extension I can't find a formal agreement I believe it just evolved somewhere over time aging is another service that shared and then public health so public health is one that they

[02:27:03] pay into the state like we do but they do share in our indirect costs related to public health not to get too in the weeds on how the billing is done but so if I'm going to focus kind of on the right we start with using the adopted budget at one point we were using proposed budget we've net since shifted you'll see a future there's a year where we build the same amount two years in a row we did that so we could align with the adopted budget which makes it a little more accurate we deal for total direct costs what we do then is take out of those costs that our contributions to community partners we don't have the city share in those contributions because that's a local decision that

[02:27:39] we're making for Prince William County we then also bill for indirect costs and there's lots of things that impacts indirect costs salaries across the organization system implementations the leases that we sign etc so we bill for a pro-rata share of indirect costs and that derives then a total cost we then back out the revenues where we're getting reimbursement from state federal grants etc for those costs those are backed out so we're not billing those twice and so we end up with like a net cost and then that is shared based on a population basis because it's on adopted budget by the time it's audited the results are different right we have budget amendments during the years

[02:28:19] dollars get spent a little differently than perhaps planned so we have what's called a true up that's done two years later so there's always this adjustment budget what we're building for based on a budget and then a true up later so it's pretty complicated and it's hard to plan for for the organizations such as the two cities and here you'll see this history it's sort of all over the place right there's not a consistent year-over-year increase because it really depends on our budget decision so for example in the past two years compensation has been a big focus of this board and so that resulted in you'll see in 22 23 large increases proposed for the cities and they started to really

[02:28:58] kind of push back saying wait a minute you're making decisions locally that we can't control and so we're uncomfortable with 24% increases in our billings and so that started the dialogue of how might we do this better and make it more simple this is a history graph showing that same information the point here is the three five seven and ten year history you'll see city of Manassas has paid anywhere between 4.7 million 5.4 million for the three year in the city of Manassas Park in that one to two million dollar range one and a half to two million dollar range as I said we've had more concerns expressed by the

[02:29:34] cities in in recent years for a couple reasons escalation and indirect costs a big driver of that if you recall a few years ago we put a lot of money into technology and systems well when you spread that out across indirects it it becomes expensive technology and expensive so they're sharing in that piece uh compensation was another one that we've you know had across the board in sheriff the courts um you know all the general government employees that impacts and sometimes that increase may be more than they're giving their own employees so that has been problematic for the cities and so we've got a lot of pushback we went through a big class in compensation study a few years back at that point

[02:30:12] that also impacted compensation and the cost of our programs and then anytime we add a new program or service if it's within those that realm of shared service the cities then are being billed for it and again they may they may say they they don't have a real say in that is the county going to do it regardless so what we ended up doing in 24 you'll see it was they were presented with a 26 and a 24 percent increase and for the cities that was very large and so what we ended up doing those years is linking it to CPI you similar to what we've done for libraries and we build for a 6.62% increase, that's the regional CPIU for this region, for 24 and

[02:30:50] then for 25, 3.11%. Where this ties to the budget is you'll see there is a delta. So we build them for 2.1. For example, for Manassas Park, if we had done it based on historical methodology, it would be 2.7 million. And so this is a decision that we're faced with, is do we continue to do it based on this CPIU or do we revert back to the methodology that we've used for all of these years?

[02:31:13] Or does the board want to open up this agreement? That's something that we have been presented with by the two cities, and I'll cover that in a moment. Pros and cons of the historical methodology, it captures the true cost of the program and service.

[02:31:29] It's capturing direct and indirect. And it's recognizing that non-local revenues, right, those grants may decrease that burden. The cons is, I will say, to calculate this billing, it's complex. It takes a while to go through all of these departments and pull it.

[02:31:44] Unfortunately, there's not a button we can push and just spit out a shared service billing. So staff time, it takes a while. There's a risk of human error in it over time. We have had to correct errors and give credits for prior years. There's a human manual nature to it. And so that's the cons to it.

[02:32:01] On the simplified CPIU approach, it's simple. We really can generate it in about 15 minutes. It is predictable for both them and us. If you follow CPIU, you sort of know where it's going to end up in the you know there's a certain point in time where we pull the number at the end of the year but you can kind of see where it's where it's leading by paying attention to the the quarterly numbers that are out and so they have an idea of what to build into their proposed budget the risk is we're not fully sharing all the costs right some of those decisions that we're making we end up getting at work we're paying the Delta that's not recovered where we are with discussions there has been some

[02:32:40] turnover obviously the city of Manassas city manager has departed I understand the city of Manassas Park manager will be leaving and the city manager or the CFO for Masses Park has resigned so we're sort of in this point where we were trying to work with the CRI was trying to work with the two CFOs on how might we move forward the direction we were getting from Masses Park is they were very comfortable with the CPI you approach that was predictable for them but with the city they wanted to involve their council members and so I'm I don't feel I'm at a position to to be on a negotiating committee with the council members unless this board directs us to somehow

[02:33:16] do so what I did find is in 1991 I think there was a negotiating committee that was formed between the city council of the city and the board they came back with a recommendation it looks like it did come to the board of county supervisors at the time who looked to endorse it but I don't see where it ever got ratified so somewhere along the way it fell apart I don't that's about all the history I have from a memo that I have in a file so there is precedent for a negotiating committee but it would mean opening up that agreement and renegotiating it which sometimes be careful what you ask for so you know I'm

[02:33:53] looking really for direction on where this board would like me to go with the billing each year I'm you know if we can go back to the historical method we can do the CPI you method or is there more direction that we want to get in terms of really opening up the agreement and renegotiating it all right are you this is complete that's complete all right mic drop all right thank you so very much um first we have supervisor vega you know i'm going to talk about manassas park people owe us money yes no they owe us money no they're so far everybody's paying okay no manassas park because you said they're

[02:34:32] they haven't been paying i know they pay they pay monthly oh come what the trade somewhere along the way that was negotiated out okay do we know i mean i know you said you just yeah do we know what the total amount is no can we find out um sure i can come up with an estimate yes i think so um is that something we're going to pursue to correct or i was not i'm not sure that it's an error i think it was a decision that was made through some sort of agreement at some point between the two entities okay so what is to say that the city of manassas can't come and try to

[02:35:12] make the same agreement that the park has well they've been paying it that's right supervisor Franklin they can and so that's that's that's the concern here right that we have folks that are you know doing their part and then another jurisdiction that is not I don't think it's fair and so who is to say that they won't and ask for the same favor I guess that we're extending to the city of Manassas Park yeah I don't know if they would or not well I will certainly I'm be looking forward to what the total amount is for the portion that the park hasn't been contributing and how many years did you say it was an agreement made when and

[02:35:49] and i started 91 and it's been that way at least that long oh so it's been a very long time i believe okay thanks all right supervisor franklin sure yeah a couple of things i think is important to put into context um city of manassas park i think they're doing a lot better financially they're certainly doing a lot of economic development as of late that i think will help with revenue but historically um over the past i'm not going to see how many years but

[02:36:23] several years it's my understanding that in the past they've struggled financially and so some of those discussions may be related to why they're paying certain things versus others we'll certainly not like to make any assumptions about the cities especially since we don't have a lot of information but I think it'll be great to go and get some of that information the other thing I'll say is you know I've been having this this discussion with staff with regards to the health department there's certainly some consternation from the city of manassas around our current shared services agreement and that's quite frankly why we haven't moved forward yet with

[02:37:01] the health department so i do think that obviously we have to look at this issue it's actually been an issue for a few years now that i don't think we've talked a lot about publicly and i know that you know this has been a conversation on the staff level where the electeds have not necessarily been involved and i would think that while the elected should have a strong opinion about which direction the shared services agreement would go in certainly i think the heads of those county departments in the cities should be in those discussions it's my understanding and

[02:37:41] i don't know a lot about how the the city is managed but does the city council have more authority over the budget process than the mayor for the city of manassas that i do not know and i think that has a large part to do with some of these discussions around the shared services and why the city council wants to be more involved i don't know that for a fact that's kind of what i'm hearing here and there but certainly i think we need to have some some more concrete information about kind of how we arrive to where we are but i don't want to pick on the city of manassas park because you know we've worked closely with the mayor there and you know she's certainly been

[02:38:18] quite humble about the collaboration the partnership between Prince William County and at least the city of Manassas Park and I know the city council and the city of Manassas wants to be more involved in this process and I think we have to figure out well exactly what does that mean and what does that look like and making sure that everybody can benefit from that situation. All right then we're going to go on if you're finished Supervisor Franklin we're going go to supervisor we're thank you madam chair mr treat is it possible I'm just throwing this out there because I don't know the answer is it possible that

[02:38:56] Manassas Park hires their own prosecutor as many of the towns do and that's why they're not part of the agreement and I would suggest we kind of take a look at that because if they're not paying their share of the Commonwealth's attorney I'd like to see that share paid um if I made it just good I wrote just be clear so they they do pay on both the city and Manassas Park it's a monthly billing and Manassas Park is paying.

[02:39:22] Supervisor Vega was right. I think there has been some financial struggles at some point with Manassas Park. I know they were at one point on a fiscal watch list at the state, but they are current and paying today. I would like to see a percentage of how much each jurisdiction pays, just a spreadsheet to do that.

[02:39:40] But I would be remiss if I didn't note that this isn't the only shared services agreement that we've got. And I kind of have very little sympathy for some of the jurisdictions, given that of the roughly $12.7 million PRTC is asking for, they're asking us to pay $12.3 million of it, or 97%, while some of the other jurisdictions are paying less.

[02:40:08] So I'm not quite as willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, given that we're paying the lion's share of the freight on quite a number of things. Just make them pay their fair share of the freight.

[02:40:24] Thank you. Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Ms. Atreid and for staff for bringing this together. I think that one of the biggest takeaways, at least for me, is that a lot of this is, frankly, helter-skelter. Unwritten agreements, written agreements, things have been ratified, things have not been ratified over the past 50 years almost.

[02:40:45] And so for no other reason that we need to start looking at this freshly to look at what should be formalized. Because, frankly, some of my colleagues, things just sort of going away and people not paying for certain parts of agreements or us knowing, to sort of Weir's point, on if, you know, because they're not paying anywhere, it's because they got their own attorney, their own prosecutor, things like that.

[02:41:06] We need to find some way of having all that formalized, frankly, and all that known, not only for us, but for those jurisdictions and, frankly, our shared constituents because people live in the county, they live in the cities. We have people that live in the towns, what have you.

[02:41:21] And to not know where the taxpayer money is going and who is using what services, what have you, is frankly, I'm sure, concerning for anyone that knows that this is happening, which I can see from my 1A, it is. To know that there's this decades-long history of different services that, on again, off again, not knowing when it was ratified, when it was agreed to, who's paying what and who's not.

[02:41:42] So I commend you all for doing this. And I commend, I forgot who made the original directive. for making the directive was, I don't remember who made the directive, but regardless, for us endeavoring to look into this. I don't have a strong opinion on moving forward yet, because frankly, I think we need a lot more information, but I do think that ultimately, if on the Manassas city side, their council is pushing it more involved, they do get more involved. To your point earlier michelle i i would be remiss if we then just delegated that same authority to you

[02:42:19] if we have electeds on their side of the of the city line saying hey we're going to have directed elected officials involved in the conversation and our end was like no we'll just have our staff take care of it to me there's an uneven level of power there and frankly authority um again love the job that staff does but you're not elected officials elected officials should be talking to elected officials staff should be talking to staff to me at least in my one eighth We should not be having a situation where elected officials should be negotiating with staff directly on the other side of the city line.

[02:42:48] So that's my one-eighth. I'm not sure how we can move forward from there, but I just want to leave that, Madam Chair. Thank you. All right. Madam Chair, if I can. Yes, sir. So in this case, Supervisor, thank you very much for that comment and for the discussion.

[02:43:04] I would not go forward with negotiating with elected officials. So if we are in a situation where the city of Manassas and the city of Manassas Park will only enter this process where our board indicates your desire to actually reopen negotiations, if they will only enter those negotiations with elected officials, we would come back to the board to establish some subset of this board to do that.

[02:43:37] If, instead, they are interested at a staff level of us working out the details and coming back to our respective governing boards, I am more comfortable with engaging their respective staff. We certainly could also brief all of our governing boards as we are now and certainly with additional detail.

[02:44:00] And with that, still empowering staff to work through the details of a negotiated, shared, updated shared services agreement. All right, thank you. And we have a few more people speak, but I want everyone to think about really what the question is before us.

[02:44:19] What is it, what are the options that we are considering and to weigh into that specifically so that we can, at the end of the discussion, have an idea of how we want to move forward. With that, Supervisor Angry. I do have a historical question. And I'm reading the directive and it's Manassas City and Manassas Park.

[02:44:39] I know we have shared services with everybody else, right? Donfrey's, Occoquan, all the towns, and do we not? No, because they pay real estate and personal property to us. So they're eligible for our services by virtue of paying taxes, whereas the city residents are paying real estate, personal property to the cities.

[02:44:58] Okay, so that's the connection. Thank you. That's a great education. Now, the slide you said, because we've raised our salaries for our employees, which we've done well and we've done that, And they increased their services about, did you say 40%? No, there was something in there you gave like a...

[02:45:19] So you'll see on some years there's been... 24%, I think you said. It's ranged from 3% in some years to it went down 32% in one year. That's when the libraries were removed. But more recently, in 24 and 25, you'll see 26% increase for the city of Manassas.

[02:45:38] In 24, in 25, 16%. A lot of that is driven by the compensation adjustments that were made across the board. Other things that are driving it are system implementations. If you think of our human capital management system, our financial management system, those have been upgraded in past years.

[02:45:55] Those costs get spread across the entire organization in the form of indirect costs. And so they're picking up a share of those type of costs. And so there's spikes in it depending on decisions we make locally here. And even though we're here with this directive that someone gave to get here, Was that the concern because they're paying more?

[02:46:13] So for, I don't know, Manassas Park, Manassas City, once you gave that to them, you said, I want to paraphrase, oh, those are kind of high. Like, we don't want to pay that. So the real concern is their inability to plan their budget because of the fluctuation that it goes through from year to year.

[02:46:34] They could plan for 10%, and it's 20%. Um, so trying to find a way for them to plan for their budget. So there's one of our, you know, discussion points, trying to figure that out, how to get them, uh, what that raw number or real number or close to his real number so they can plan it out better.

[02:46:55] That's one of our talking points. Okay. So. And that's where you, I believe this board landed with the library agreement. I think it was a fixed amount and it increases by CPIU each year. So it makes it predictable, um, and, and quite frankly, easier to administer. um you know this is difficult to administer it's not to say we can't do it we've been doing this billing for years this way um but it is pretty painful to calculate thank you michelle so the word is predictability so we need to figure out some predictability for monasas part monasas city and go from there okay thank you all right supervisor gordy then i'll have a few words

[02:47:31] yeah i just want to kind of continue that conversation to try to unpack the process that we currently have so in terms of the way that we plan our budget at what point do we reveal to them what we anticipate their portion to be so i strive very hard to get it to them before their proposed budget okay um so if you look back at let me go back to this this one you'll see in 2018 and 2019 the exact same amount was billed we did that so that we could get on a different timing so that we could use our adopted budget it would be more accurate um and we could

[02:48:09] get it to them sooner and so it sort of we switched years so there was a year in there that we really made it simpler to get them information earlier but we really you know they're on the same schedule we are with their budget they're in the middle of the budget process so I got them their bills in January I think they ideally would love it to have it in the fall it just is it you know we have to get through the adopted budget is obviously from the prior year we're using the 24 adopted budget so it's done and so that's why we we shifted so that we can get that adopted budget done start working on that building sooner and get it out the door so make sure i didn't

[02:48:45] misunderstand you so what we're asking them to provide is what we approved in for now is what we approved in 24 so they're yes so there's a one-year lag yes there are 25 would be based on the 24 adopted and then the 23 uh the 22 audit true up okay and so when we take a look at you know i mean because we got some years where it's relatively within a 10 range right here you've got you know four points even you know 4.6 and then up to uh to 2019 so what happened in these later

[02:49:23] years where we had these massive swings now granted we were in covid during those periods but and then you do have the libraries but is there a rationale about something significant that happened that just literally caused these massive swings yeah 22 there was um i think that was the year i'd have to look i think that was a year we did some significant staffing in cs um in the budget um there was technology projects going on i can certainly follow up with the board because we detailed it out for them because they asked the same question so i can go back to that building

[02:50:00] and pull what we sent them. Okay so it seems to me you know I mean some of it is you know bringing on more staff to meet growing demand for services you know in community services which clearly is particularly as we think about all the mental health requirements and things that are going on but then also you know for years you know there were you know as we kind of think about pay for sheriff's deputies and other staff, you know, I think we've sort of hit that a better place that hopefully, as we kind of manage this forward, it would create more of a more,

[02:50:40] less swings within the pay scales. So we don't have to come in with a massive pay raise of 17 and a half percent in one year when we didn't give pay raises in previous years. And that becomes a challenge. When we do planning cases that are close to locality, you know, our other localities, we always give them notice. Do we provide them notice of the things that we are doing in terms of our budget that would have an implication on them and allow them to feed back their perspectives on those potential increases or cuts to help us understand from their perspective

[02:51:20] what their concerns would be I think on certain services there are and Elijah you can correct me if I'm wrong I think on the CS side there is some type of group that they participate in that they they're getting for example a heads up on CS but I don't know this done for every sort of every function it just seemed to me that better communication in the process to let them to weigh in to serve as a speak into our budget deliberations and just by giving them a courtesy of what we're doing and what we're thinking and allowing them to speak into it I think would

[02:51:55] maybe start to begin to just just better communication I like good afternoon board Elijah Johnson deputy county executive the answer is yes for those services that that are shared in my quadrant each year we report out to both city councils how many people we've served in their jurisdiction and any new services that that we know of that's coming up that for example the CRC They knew in advance what was happening, how they would be impacted with that.

[02:52:26] Yeah, so I appreciate the, you know, the proactive outreach. And maybe, you know, if that becomes more of a consistent approach, rather than having to recreate the wheel here, maybe it's just making improvements to it. But, and final question, when do we need to have an answer back to you for this?

[02:52:47] So we billed 25. Yeah. So we won't bill again until the fall of this year for 26. And, you know, will we return back to the full methodology? I'll calculate it both ways again. But, yeah, some direction by the fall, you know, if we're going to pivot and do something different, particularly if we're going to open the agreement up.

[02:53:08] And that likely will take more than a year. We'll have to do something in the interim. I don't see a negotiation of agreement happening really quickly. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you. So a couple things I just want to note, one of my staff members, she used to work for the Commonwealth Attorney, sent me a message.

[02:53:25] He said that he believes that Manassas Park has their own prosecutor who handles traffic infractions, but our Commonwealth Attorney has concurrent jurisdiction over Manassas Park. So maybe that's a question we can ask her when she comes and does her presentation, just so we have that kind of clarity.

[02:53:44] And I appreciate the question, Supervisor Gordy, about what is our timeline. my concern with the CPIU is that we're not fully sharing the costs that's my big concern and you know I happen to go to a PRTC meeting last week and when I looked at what they were asking of us we have to be mindful of how we're spending our own dollars our own tax dollars and I understand the need for budget certainty so using the CPIU even though that's the easiest it's not the most accurate so that's a concern that i wanted to flag and that i want to raise um i am not i might

[02:54:24] slightly be leaning towards establishing a um some kind of negotiating committee or some kind of i know it will take a while but you know the choices that we were given um either having like some kind of negotiating committee using this traditional method or the historical method using cpi you they don't feel like the best choices but if those are the choices we have with the other choices we have. But I will say that I'm probably inclined to looking at some kind of negotiating structure or committee, just so we can really talk out how we're billing and what makes sense for all parties involved. So with that, I think that this is a great discussion. It's something

[02:55:03] that we should certainly, Mr. Shorter, bring up later, maybe even immediately after the budget discussion, because I want to have this well ahead of when we next bill. Because again, And it's going to take a while for us to figure out what it is we want to do.

[02:55:20] And if it's going to take time for us to do something like a negotiating committee, well, we'll probably have to think about what we're going to do in 2027 as well. Supervisor Gordy, I'll turn it over to you. Just one other thought. You had mentioned this is very burdensome, the historical. Have you quantified the cost in terms of man hours, FTEs, that we're spending on just calculating this?

[02:55:42] Because, you know, if we're spending enough money creating this, it may be actually better for us to use the CPIU, depending on what the cost is, just to calculate and determine what that other, the historical is.

[02:55:58] Have you quantified that? I haven't, but we could do that. I think that would be helpful to see what that, how much that eats into that portion that we're trying to gain. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Treat. Chris, if you want to queue up our, or do you have something before you want to queue up our next question?

[02:56:15] confirm and make sure that I codify what we're hearing we will come back to the board after the budget season and we will we will start these discussions at that time and that we might even look that the look to the board creating some subcommittee to work with the other governing bodies yes and I know that there are a lot of questions asked I don't know if you're able to get everything but if people had specific questions again regarding whatever process they want to use or some of the questions that they want answered I think it'd be great to make sure that we direct

[02:56:52] those to Mr. Shorter so that when we do come back to this process the questions that were asked we will make sure that we have the answers to again so we can compare is using the historical method you know versus what Supervisor Gordy was saying you know versus CPIU is there really any cost savings is that there isn't there isn't and I'll accept that but you know we'll certainly review the tape and make sure that we prepare to answer all the questions we can related to both the city of Manassas and Manassas Park and related to our method and and so when we come back to the board we'll have that information along with any others I imagine that both cities are looking at

[02:57:31] this or certainly will and so they may provide some additional information as well all right thank you if you want to key up our final presentation all right so really really appreciate thank you michelle for the presentation really appreciate being able to come back to this discussion obviously we have heard from almost all of you on affordable housing this is an important part of the budget process obviously we heard and some of what we will see

[02:58:05] today we heard in the fall with updated information more current information on timeline and a bit of information on the housing trust we're prepared to you know bring this back to the board for discussion and with that i will turn it over to our director thank you so much good afternoon madam chair members of the board i am tanya washington director of the planning office i am joined today in this presentation with joan duckett who is the director of the office of housing and community development along with other members of our team in the county executive's office and a planning office who have worked together on this

[02:58:43] effort our focus today as noted earlier is to provide the board an update on affordable housing and what the county is doing to help to provide this critical resource to our residents so I'm going to give some background to really set the stage for why Prince William County needs affordable housing and then I'm going to turn it over to Director Duckett to talk about the county's housing programs as well as affordable housing budget initiatives and then I will come back to wrap up to talk about some next steps. So what is affordable housing?

[02:59:23] Affordable housing is housing that is affordable to households with incomes at or below the area median income. Area median income or AMI is a term that you will hear often throughout this presentation it is a this is pretty much how we talk about household income with regards to housing and housing programs particularly with regards to affordable housing this is a statistic that is produced regularly by the Department of Housing and Urban Development and again AMI and housing costs really guide policy discussions

[03:00:01] about addressing affordable housing so why is affordable housing important in Prince William County it really helps to serve a lot of different needs for different households at different stages of life for example for retirees having housing that's affordable to them helps them to to age in place they can stay in the same communities where they may have lived for a long time raising their families it also helps to provide higher quality of life for our residents because it ensures that basic and lifestyle needs are met it's also really

[03:00:36] important to provide affordable housing because when it exists near where you work you can you don't have to travel as far to get to work it also reduces the demand on our road and other transportation networks housing particularly housing that is affordable is very very important as part of economic development it is part of how the county can attract more jobs more employers because as they are considering moving or expanding in Prince William County they want to make sure that their employees can actually afford to live here and then lastly affordable housing is very important to

[03:01:12] support our education and public sector workforce in particular for example teachers and other public employees would be better able to find affordable housing so that they can actually live in the county where they're working when we talk about affordable housing you know again we talked about AMI there may be some different specific types of programs that may be referenced but what really want to do is focus on the people who are really served by providing affordable housing and this slide really shows that there's actually quite a range of income levels of residents

[03:01:47] and households who need some type of affordable housing so for example starting with the lowest range up to almost 41 000 these are folks who are in positions or jobs such as bartenders or a cook in a restaurant and each of these blocks shows you based off of each salary range what is the range of a house that they can afford to buy, as well as a home to rent.

[03:02:12] The next group, up to a little over $40,000 and under $68,000, these are the bus operators or a legal secretary. Next are just under $68,000 and a little over $85,000, construction building inspectors and social workers.

[03:02:30] And then the next salary range, a little over $85,000 and just under $108,000, we're talking about mechanics and electrical engineers. So again, this really kind of ties actual positions, what people can actually afford, and that helps us to really visualize the types of housing that is affordable to these residents and the types of price points that they're really looking for.

[03:02:55] So, I know earlier there's been a lot of discussion about the need for data and, you know, the real focus on affordable housing is very much driven by data. And so, we have some data to really explain why affordable housing is really needed in the county.

[03:03:15] This slide shows the gap analysis between the rental units that are existing and the renter households that need these types of units. The greatest rental needs are at the 30% AMI or below, where households exceed rental units by 6 to 1.

[03:03:34] Rental surpluses exist at the 51 to 80% AMI and the 81% to 100% AMI, which may require some lower-income households to pay more than 30% of their gross income to rent an apartment. In that type of situation, that's what we refer to as a cost burden because they're paying more money than what's really considered affordable for their housing.

[03:03:57] But one thing to note is that the rental unit shortages also exist at the 100% AMI and above. And one thing that's really particularly interesting to keep in mind is that obviously if you have a 100% AMI or above income, you can afford a market rate unit.

[03:04:15] But if there are not enough units that are priced at a rental fee that they can afford, They're actually going to be competing with the lower cost units that residents who have lower incomes are also trying to get.

[03:04:30] So that creates more of a demand and less supply that's available for the residents who really need those lower cost units. Similarly, we have a chart that's looking at the supply and demand balance between the ownership units that exist as well as the ownership households.

[03:04:51] There is a lack of ownership units for households making 30% of AMI and below. However, the greatest lack of affordably priced housing occurs above 120% of AMI, where the number of households are two and a half times the number of housing units for this group.

[03:05:08] And that, again, creates that same pressure on the lower priced homes for sale that residents who have lower incomes are also trying to purchase. The greatest housing surpluses occur at the 81% to 100% AMI and the 51% to 80% AMI.

[03:05:30] So just to kind of step back even further outside of this particular county, back in 2019, the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments worked with counties and jurisdictions throughout this region, including Prince William County, to create regional housing targets that the COG board at that time adopted.

[03:05:53] And this is an effort that I'm very familiar with because I was involved in this when I was working in Montgomery County. The planning directors and housing directors who, they have their own committees within COG across the region, were all very involved in this effort.

[03:06:09] And through this effort, the COG board adopted these regional housing targets that identify that at least 320,000 housing units should be added to the region between 2020 and 2030.

[03:06:24] This is an additional 75,000 units beyond the units that were already forecasted for this period. Prince William County's share of that is 26,000 units. But one thing to keep in mind is that within the last three years, we've only added just under 3,800 units.

[03:06:41] And in order to keep pace with this target for this county at 26,000 units, we need to be producing around 2,600 units every year. There's two other components of this regional housing target. There's the accessibility piece of it, which is that at least 75% of all new housing should be in activity centers or near high-capacity transit, and that's across the region.

[03:07:06] And then lastly, at least 75% of new housing should be affordable to low- and moderate- and middle-income households. So we talked about the need for housing that residents can afford and the price points that they're either trying to identify for housing, whether it's rental or for sale, and how that lines up.

[03:07:29] with their incomes but we have a basic issue that we need to solve which is that there just simply isn't enough housing that's being built in Prince William County to meet the need and that is across income levels not just residents who are looking for affordable housing this is very much a regional issue as well and this chart shows how you know back in 2000 if you look at the yellow line this is the number of housing occupancy units per year and before the 2008 recession where things really crashed in terms of housing production

[03:08:05] you know the county was doing a really great job in producing housing units but since then we really have not kept up even with the need that's identified for the regional housing targets our comprehensive plan also has affordable housing goals these are laid out in the housing chapter and these housing goals are comparable to the regional goals and provided action strategies to develop tools to meet our affordable and workforce housing needs so um you can look at for example for affordable dwelling units these are the units that are affordable to households with ami under 80

[03:08:44] percent we are looking at housing unit targets or goals for for example 2025 which is next year you know to have a total number of housing units for these residents uh just over 58 000 58 000 units we have similar targets for workforce housing that's households within the 80 to 120 AMI as well as for market households and just as a point of comparison if you look at the 2025

[03:09:15] total housing unit goal that we want to have which is 177 600 177 600 as of the end of 2023 we had 162,310 housing units, so we still have a ways to go.

[03:09:35] I'm going to wrap up at this point before I turn it over to Director Duckett to point out that there is no one fix to provide affordable housing, that there are a lot of different needs within the affordable housing space, so to speak, at different income levels, and so that requires a whole suite of tools, and which tools are used really depend upon which range of AMI that you're trying to target.

[03:10:02] So for example, there's the below 30% AMI, which can include emergency shelters and rapid rehousing or supportive housing. There's the 30 to 50% AMI, which includes tools such as housing vouchers and affordable housing units.

[03:10:21] Another piece that we don't specifically focus on here, but just for your reference, There's this term called NOAA or nationally occurring affordable housing, which is another critical component. These are market rate units that over time, because of age or condition, become their more affordably priced units.

[03:10:41] And they are also part of the mix in addition to providing and preserving more of the sort of income-restricted affordable units. And then there's also a suite of tools for households between 50 and 80 percent AMI. And this is really the space that we're focusing on with regards to the Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance that we will be coming back to discuss later with the board.

[03:11:05] And then again, there's also some additional tools for households above 80% AMI. So with that, I will turn it over to Director Duckett. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the board.

[03:11:30] My name is Joan Duckett, and I am the Director of Housing. I'm here this afternoon to present to you information specifically concerning the Office of Housing and Community Development and the county housing programs that our division administers.

[03:11:45] through serving extremely low, 30% or below, and very low, that's 50% to 60%, and low-income residents at 80% in the Prince William County area, with the income percentages representing the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development, or HUD, their area median income limits.

[03:12:10] The Office of Housing and Community Development currently has two divisions, our Housing Choice Voucher and our Community Preservation and Development Division.

[03:12:27] Our largest federally funded assistance program is our Housing Choice Voucher program. It has formally been referred to as Section 8. Our annual budget is approximately $33 million, and our voucher allocation through the Department of Housing and Urban Development is 2,145 vouchers.

[03:12:48] Our average monthly per household subsidy for the assistance payment is $1,364, which represents payments for 1,787 vouchers. That was in the month of January 2024. Our Housing Choice Voucher program serves families and individuals who are at or below 30% of AMI at the time of their initial lease-up.

[03:13:13] And the Office of Housing and Community Development is a public housing agency. We are not a public housing authority, and the county has no public housing at this time. A public housing agency is the local office that's responsible for administering and maintaining the Section 8 housing or Housing Choice Voucher housing benefits.

[03:13:34] And the public housing authority is generally a separate government entity or body that owns public housing and has the ability to issue bonds. In 1992, when the Board of County Supervisor established the Office of Housing and Community Development, that was the reason that we were administered as a public housing agency, not an authority.

[03:14:00] Office of Housing and Community Development, along with the Housing Choice Voucher Program, also is awarded special rental assistance programs, which provides rental assistance vouchers. Those programs are the non-elderly disabled, mainstream, emergency housing vouchers, Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing, Family Unification Program, Housing Opportunities for Persons with AIDS, And then we have a state-funded rental assistance program, which is our state rental assistance program.

[03:14:33] The mainstream, our emergency housing voucher program, our HOPWA, not yet, thank you, our HOPWA and our SRAP adds 203 additional vouchers to our 2145 provided through HUD.

[03:14:57] OHCD continually seeks and responds to opportunities for additional vouchers as they become available through both HUD and the state. And currently there is no emergency housing assistance programs or fundings available.

[03:15:13] Our community, for our community preservation and development programs, these are also federally funded. And they serve families and household individuals at or below 80% of AMI, as defined by HUD.

[03:15:34] Our largest funded program is the Community Development Block Grant, referred to as CDBG. Our second largest is our Home Investment Partnerships Program, or HOME. And then we have the Emergency Solutions Grant Program, and that is our third federally funded program in our CPD division.

[03:15:54] CDBG is a federal block grant that supports community activities through an ongoing process. Our CDBG entitlement funds are used for housing rehabilitation, public facilities, which also under the HUD definition includes group homes and affordable rentals.

[03:16:12] It also is used for ADA renovations and public service activities. OHCD annually funds both our human rights division with fair housing activities to include testing as well. And we also support the Virginia Cooperative Extension, who provides financial budgeting and homeownership education for our first-time homebuyers, as well as to anyone who wants to attend throughout the county, the city, and the park. And the CDBG funds also provides

[03:16:48] case management and property management funds for our transitional housing program. Our home funds are designated exclusively to create affordable housing for low-income households.

[03:17:04] Our home entitlement funds are used to provide down payment and closing cost assistance to our first-time homebuyers. And beginning this first fiscal year, our office will be initiating our Home ARP that is the Home American Rescue Plan and our Home Tenant-Based Rental Assistance Program with the use of some program income that we have which will serve a qualified population of homeless at risk of homeless domestic violence human trafficking and that

[03:17:37] includes veterans that meet any of those populations that I just listed. These two programs will mirror our Housing Choice Voucher Program, and we'll be serving persons at 30% or below of area median income at Lisa. Our Emergency Solution Grant funds are designed to assist people to quickly regain stability in permanent housing after experiencing a housing crisis, which can also mean homelessness. Office of Housing uses our ESG funds to provide shelter operational funding to the local shelters, as well as our transitional housing program.

[03:18:17] It also provides rapid rehousing funding to two of our local shelters, and it provides support for the administration of the Homeless Management Information System, referred to as HEMIS. It's our local system used to collect client data on the provision of housing and services to individuals and families at risk of experiencing homelessness.

[03:18:44] On our affordable housing budget initiatives, as the affordable dwelling unit ordinance is designed and adopted, there will be the need for affordable housing budget initiatives to include a housing trust fund, proposed office space, and proposed program staffing.

[03:19:08] For the future housing trust fund, there are elements that need to be addressed, and some of those are as follows. The program objective, who will be the eligible users of the trust fund, what will be the income range, how will the assistance be repaid, and the use of the budget savings from FY23 in the amount of the $5 million investment proposed by the Board of County Supervisors to the Housing Trust Fund after the adoption of the Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance.

[03:19:40] In briefly addressing these topics, the trust fund's main objective will be to promote, preserve, and produce long-term affordable rental housing through the development of mixed income housing in neighborhoods within the county.

[03:19:59] And this may include both nonprofit and for-profit developers with the purpose of serving households with incomes of extremely low, very low, and low income based on the area median income, as defined by HUD.

[03:20:15] And the repayment method of funding from the trust fund may take the form of a low interest rate loan with the repayment of those funds returning to the housing trust fund account. The Office of Housing and Community Development and the Development Service is also proposing affordable housing staffing within the FY25 proposed budget.

[03:20:45] That is to include two positions for the Office of Housing and Community Development and one for Development Services. For the Office of Housing and Community Development in FY25, the two positions would include an Affordable Housing Program Manager,

[03:21:02] And that person would provide oversight of the affordable dwelling unit programs, as well as an affordable housing program analyst who would perform program eligibility and requirements for both acquisition and rental applications, along with following and implementing the affordable housing program guidelines.

[03:21:26] For development services in FY25, the one position is for an affordable housing development coordinator, and that person would be managing and reviewing zoning regulations, analyzing and performing research needed for the density bonus applications as they pertain to the Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance.

[03:21:48] For FY26, the proposed staffing for OHCD will include two additional affordable housing program analysts. It's important to note that all of these positions will have many other job responsibilities that are way too numerous to describe this afternoon, but also be noted that both the Office of Housing and Community Development, as well as Development Services, will work collaboratively with the internal county departments, offices, agencies, and external stakeholders in an effort to provide the highest quality and professional program for all.

[03:22:25] So just to wrap up in terms of next steps, as noted, we have drafted an affordable dwelling unit ordinance that is now publicly available for review.

[03:22:51] And again, we will be coming back to the board to discuss that in more detail. The county also has affordable housing budget initiatives, as Director Duckett just noted, as well as the development of housing trust fund policies and procedures. and then we will also be exploring additional zoning affordable housing tools in the near future as well and just to give just an overview on the next steps in terms of the timeline for the affordable dwelling unit ordinance we are now really focusing on doing community outreach and stakeholder

[03:23:27] outreach today obviously we are doing this kind of more setting the stage for the board. We will also be holding a similar session for the Planning Commission tomorrow to provide background on affordable housing and the need for affordable housing. And then we have three community meetings coming up. Two are in person on March 21st at the Filazzo building as well as April 3rd at George Mason's Beacon Hall. We are also going to hold a virtual public meeting on April 4th. So if residents can't come in person, they can still participate in the meetings.

[03:24:03] We also plan to provide all of the meeting materials on our website. So if you can't come to a meeting, you can still see the same information. We are also, in addition, going to provide a comment form both at the in-person meetings and available on our website, again, for residents to provide any feedback on the draft ordinance.

[03:24:24] Following that community outreach, we will be holding a work session for the Planning Commission on April 10th and then on April 25th the DCSM zoning ordinance advisory committee meeting will take place we'll have a discussion about the draft ordinance there and then we set May 9th as what I kind of borrowed a term for when I worked in district government on budget pencils down date which is that's the date where we want to stop making any additional changes to the draft ordinance so that we can then bring it back to the board and then for board to hold its i'm sorry for the planning commission to then hold its public hearing on may

[03:25:02] 22nd and then in june have a work session with the board on june 11th followed by a public hearing on july 16th so that we can hopefully complete this effort before the summer is out so with that that concludes our presentation we're happy to take any questions all right let me clear up my screen so I can see who has questions first we will go to Supervisor angry I'm

[03:25:35] gonna pull him out Supervisor Franklin sure just had a couple of questions page 18 particularly just want to see if you can talk a little bit more about the loans to project sponsors and just getting some clarity on who project sponsors are and talk a little bit about the discussion around loans and then just want to talk about low interest loans. I think my thought initially, particularly with regards to low interest loans, I can see why obviously we would want to do that, and I'm not

[03:26:10] necessarily opposed. I think we should continue to have that discussion, but I would like to also consider something similar to the housing assistance program that we put together during COVID. The only thing I worry about with the low interest loans is for someone who is struggling, Sometimes it's hard to predict when you'll get back on your feet and be able to pay that loan back.

[03:26:35] And so I think it's just more ease of mind if it's a, we can call it a grant or assistance or, you know, whatever. So I would like for us to just continue thinking about that as well. But just want to talk about what project sponsors are and more discussion around the idea of loans.

[03:26:54] So for project sponsors, I'm referring to nonprofits and for-profit developers. As we've not gotten the direction yet as to how the board wants to use the trust fund money, we are looking at it for gap financing at this point for developers.

[03:27:11] So therefore, the reason that I mentioned the low interest rate repayable loan. Sure, and I think it is possible to maybe use a combination of a couple of different tools. So maybe some housing assistance, whether it's in the form of a loan or other types of assistance, and seeing if we have resources to also give to nonprofits or even incentivize for-profit entities to do more affordable housing.

[03:27:43] So I think what I would like is if we can maybe consider all of those options with regards to the resources that we've set aside. It'll take a lot of resources, ma'am, for the assistance program. as you can see, we spend just over $2.3 million every month for the assistance that we are providing now. We just depleted all of the emergency housing assistance funds that we had that were related to COVID. And so with all of the sources together, it was well over $5 million.

[03:28:20] So, you know, just not having enough resource to do that and have a dedicated fund, dedicated source into that fund it takes a lot of money to do a rental assistance program understood and certainly the initial program was from ARPA funds and the original COVID funds but I'm happy to issue a directive to put 20 million aside for this year if that's but if however we can continue the discussion around housing assistance I just want to make sure that when we talk about actually helping those that we really think about these individual

[03:28:56] cases that come up. And I do just worry that a loan, depending on what the interest is, can really burden an individual more than actually help in the long term. Just something to think about. So for our first-time homebuyer program and for our rehabilitation to promote aging in place and to keep people in their homes, that is a deferred loan. There's no interest and no no repayment. It's a 30-year deferred on that. So we do that part for our first-time homebuyer and our rehab. There is, of course, no repayment on our housing choice voucher program. That is

[03:29:34] all assistance and portion of the tenant payment based on... Well, and it's all federal, obviously. It is all federal. And the same with the state. The state money does the same thing. Well, and I guess kind of to my next question, for the loans, who are we looking to give the loans to? Developers. Non-profit and for-profit developers. People that would develop affordable housing. Well and so yeah so if we're talking about developers then that's a separate discussion and you know we can give them loans and make them pay us back and they don't even have to be low interest but whatever. But with regards to if we're talking about housing assistance so this

[03:30:13] money going directly to those who need it again I would like for us to just continue to have that discussion because while we can incentivize the developers and I think we should have that discussion I also want to make sure we have some type of mechanism to give assistance directly to those who need it because that's also more immediate and my goal overall was really to help those more immediately who needed the assistance so in in our division it's really talking about two different things affordable housing is really different than housing assistance

[03:30:49] And so the affordable dwelling unit was to, and what I've learned from it, is to provide more of the units that we need. So by doing that, that will help the housing and be able to help them to get, because the renters would be able to rent at a lower rent, and the first-time homebuyers or the homebuyers would be able to purchase the affordable units at a lower price as well. Sure, and totally understand. I think the last thing I'll say is I kind of look

[03:31:24] at it in two separate buckets, the ADU ordinance versus the housing trust fund, and I get needing to link the two. I look at the ADU ordinance as how can we incentivize developers to do more affordable housing, how can we set standards for what ADUs look like in certain numbers of units that we're putting in. That's how I look at the ADU. I look at the housing trust fund as how can we use that to help those who need it today, right now. Before we go to the next person, I just want to tag onto that because I know Professor Frankl has mentioned housing assistance, and that's

[03:32:02] definitely a conversation we need to have. I had a conversation with a woman who runs a non-profit, Nancy Lydell, who is with Woodbridge Workers. And we were talking about the need for people who need housing assistance or who need assistance with their utility bills. So I think that it's definitely, through Ruther Franklin, a worthy discussion that needs to be had because we have people who are hurting.

[03:32:21] I mean, we certainly need more housing options for people, but we also have to think about people who are hurting. And the immediate need is now because we don't want people to lose their housing. We don't want people to be unsheltered. And if we can do something to prevent that, that would be, I mean, that's much needed.

[03:32:41] We're going to go next to Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. Keeping taxes low, make it affordable for our current residents, just putting that plug in as we talk about people that are hurting and challenges. With what Supervisor Franklin was saying, Madam Attorney, our county attorney, do you have any concerns?

[03:33:01] Is there anything that would impede us from directing staff to look at utilizing multiple tools? We're working with the county executive and his team on the legal analysis, and we'll provide that to the board when it comes forward. So if you'd like to have staff look at various things, we will look at the legal implications and they look at the policy implications.

[03:33:22] Great. Just wanted to make sure we had that at the forefront of this conversation before we direct anybody to move in any direction. Also, when we were looking at slide five, this is the one that talks about the salary range. if we can go to it it's five on my end i don't know if it's five on yours yes great is cog utilizing um single or is this dual income this is household income and so households could be

[03:33:55] if you look at the detailed ami charts and joan can help me with this but you'll actually see a range what the ami would be for a single person households with a certain number of people but But typically, we sort of think about it in terms of a household of four, just sort of in general.

[03:34:15] And so you'd have to kind of peel back to look at the specifics if you want to look at what the AMI number is for single households. It does exist. But typically, we're really talking about households, which could be anywhere from one person to, you know, multiple people. Yeah, I struggle with looking at these ranges, right, because looking at my personal situation and relatives and whatnot, It seems like something's a little bit off, right?

[03:34:39] And so why I ask the question. And where can I go to find this information? I can send it to you. I have the federal income limits. I think it'd be a good idea to send it to the entire board.

[03:34:55] That way we all have access to the same information. Thank you. And then playing devil's advocate here, because we're constantly being told that we don't have enough housing in Prince William County, that we need more housing. Do we ever think about getting to a max in terms of housing?

[03:35:13] And if so, are we measuring that? How do we measure that? I referenced earlier, let me see if I can, I'll start with this, the COG housing targets.

[03:35:33] So I mentioned, you know, the 320,000 regional housing unit target is an additional 75,000 units above what's already forecasted. Every 10 years or so, sometimes a little more frequently than that, every jurisdiction in the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments, sort of the regional area, including Prince William County, does a household and a population and employment forecast.

[03:36:02] The round 10 was completed last year. And as part of that, every jurisdiction, whether it's a county or city, looks at and does a projection in terms of population, what the population growth will be, you know, over the next number of years, going out several years, as well as a forecast of job growth.

[03:36:22] Those numbers really kind of set the context of what we're looking for in terms of how many housing units we need. So there isn't a fixed max that you get to a certain number and that's it, because most of our region is experiencing some degree of population growth.

[03:36:40] It may be a little bit, it may be a lot. And so that number is always shifting. And so that's why with the forecast, that's why the forecasts are redone every few years because we have to pretty much set a new sort of baseline that we need to take into consideration in terms of how many housing units we actually need and what the job growth is, which also feeds into the demand for housing.

[03:37:01] So that's really how we look at it. And when we see this mismatch between the population forecast and looking at the number of housing units are actually being produced over time that's when we really start to see that there is a gap I think it's you know whether it's in Prince William County or in other parts of this region where I've lived and work you know residents will say I see all these cranes I've seen all these you know housing units being built what do you mean we need more housing but when you actually look at the data that is where it's really obvious that there is a gap that exists it's also obvious in a fact that we have residents who whether they are lower

[03:37:38] income residents or even middle income residents who are trying to find housing to purchase that is really hard for them to find it because there's so much demand for what already exists and there isn't enough supply thank you that's all i have for now madam chair all right thank you so very much supervisor bailey thank you madam chair um thank you for the presentation um and the update i wanted to ask and this is something that comes up when we're talking about affordable housing Has there been any thought to explaining or changing the terminology, affordable?

[03:38:12] I mean, what's the thought process behind that? I know it has different meaning in different spaces and places. So could you speak to that a little bit? I can start, and I will open it up to the rest of the team if they'd like to add some thoughts.

[03:38:29] I think, you know, the term does mean different things depending upon who you are speaking to and their familiarity with the different types of affordable housing that exists. Obviously, for me as a planning professional, you know, I showed this slide that shows that range of tools.

[03:38:50] And, you know, there's subsidized affordable housing. There are affordable housing units that are income restricted that are produced and have control periods where they are not subsidized units, but they are built to be for households up to a certain income level.

[03:39:05] They're nationally occurring affordable housing units. There's a lot of things that exist there. So it's sort of when I think of the term affordable housing, I'm thinking about that broad spectrum, but there are residents who may be familiar with only one piece of that. I think from my perspective, I think the important thing is to try to communicate the fact that this is actually a bigger pie, so to speak, and that there actually are a range of options that exist in terms of providing affordable housing.

[03:39:32] And that's why I said when I got to that slide, there is no one way to provide affordable housing. It doesn't exist in any one form. There are, you know, ways to help people or help our residents, you know, be able to live in housing that maybe they already have by providing housing assistance, you know, to help fill in that gap.

[03:39:53] So I think, you know, for us as government agencies and a public sector, part of that is really trying to educate our larger community about the fact that there actually are a wide range of tools that exist. so that at least there's an understanding that there are different types of needs and also different types of ways to address affordable housing.

[03:40:11] Okay. Joni, are you? That's fine. That's fine. And I only bring that up, and I know it may be a small piece of the pie, but I think when we talk about educating our community, sometimes we get stuck for the mere fact.

[03:40:27] Joni mentioned that we only have Section 8 affordable housing, and that's not only what we're speaking to, you know, because people really want to live here in Prince William County it's a broader perspective and that might be a part of the ordinance that we you know kind of lift up if we can to help people understand and then the other thing is I was talking to my staff and the 30 percent AMI accommodation is an opportunity for us and when we talk about you know like our military that live in the area you know

[03:41:04] enlisted or beginning officers or nail technicians, barbership owners and barbers or hairstylists, waitresses. How do we – that's an opportunity for us to address also as we balance out the tools that we have in our toolbox.

[03:41:24] What does that look like as it relates to the ordinance? And the reason why I'm asking – let me say this. The reason why I'm asking, when you talk about the military, is the ICSA an opportunity, the Intergovernmental Service Agreement an opportunity when we talk about supply and demand?

[03:41:41] How do we use, is that one of the tools that we have in our toolbox when we talk about accommodating the military in our community? One thing, just to start the response, one thing I do want to note is that with regards to the draft ordinance itself, we will be having one-on-one meetings with each of the supervisors so we can dive into more detail in terms of the specific the specific components of the draft ordinance but I don't know in speaking responding to supervisor Franklin's question I think when we have our one-on-one that's a great time to

[03:42:20] discuss exactly what the funds should be used for in the intent of them so that we know what direction as well. And as far as the affordable housing, it means something to everybody. What's affordable to me may not be affordable to you or to someone else. I'd love to see it housing for all because that's what our goal is, is to help to provide housing for all people. But we do try and we have some very robust programs that are doing great things

[03:42:55] to assist all of the area median income levels for families and individuals. And so, you know, we're getting started on it and moving forward. So I would just thank you, Joni and Tanya. I would just say that when we look at, from a regional standpoint, the tools that are in our toolbox, the intergovernmental service agreement has been a great tool in many ways, and so this might be an opportunity, and that's a one-on-one conversation.

[03:43:25] But I just wanted to say that in a broader sense when we look at our military population. Well, we do have our VASH vouchers that we work very hard to get our veterans housed. So we have other, ours is on a referral basis.

[03:43:41] So we do have to depend on the Veterans Administration in D.C. to make those referrals and work with those individuals. And then we house them very quickly. We actually were given those additional vouchers because of that very reason.

[03:43:59] We were given 25 additional vouchers for the Office of Housing. Awesome. Awesome. So, Joni, while you're there, can you just, again, quickly talk about the ARP? You mentioned about the ARP. It's the American Rescue Plan. It's through the Home Investment Partnership Program, and it was an allocation of funds, a special allocation that is provided to entitlement jurisdictions to be used for a qualified population.

[03:44:28] And they're very specific in their qualified population. It's homeless, at risk of homeless, domestic violence, human trafficking. And then it specifically says, and for veterans that meet any of those populations. And so there were some options for the use of the money.

[03:44:43] And based on the data that we had in the county and what we saw as far as through our Housing Choice Voucher Program, that there was a need for tenant-based rental assistance. And so it was $3.3 million, a little over $3.3 million that our office was allocated. And so those funds will be used for that purpose.

[03:45:02] It has an ending date. That's where I was going to go. Yes, ma'am. It has an ending date. It doesn't go on forever, unfortunately. But in our plan, we are going to strongly encourage, because we cannot provide individuals and families to participate in our family self-sufficiency program.

[03:45:22] But anybody can join that program or be a part of that program, and so we are going to try to work with each one to join and to get the resources to help become self-sufficient at the end of their lease. So we're looking at a two-year lease maximum.

[03:45:37] Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you. We are going to go to Supervisor Rear. Thank you, Madam Chair. First, Ms. Washington and Ms. Duckett, I want to thank you. starting on page 12 this is actually a budget workshop presentation with the granularity of requests that's not present in the budget chapter on the housing and community development so I thank you for that that's what I'm expecting from other departments that being said I'm going to go

[03:46:08] to the stuff the more uncomfortable topics I just wanted to note that on page five if where you've got the salary ranges you don't have to flip to it I would just suggest two things one providing the salary range is nice but providing where that fits into your eight percent AMI would be would make the chart meaningful and I would just take issue with bartenders making forty thousand seven hundred dollars a year most bartenders I know make double that or more just a note in passing

[03:46:47] And then we get to the part, the heart of the matter. You know, we're talking about rental units available, ownership of units available, and projections with respect to population growth. And this is not the first time I've said it, and I'm going to repeat it again. This is 2019 COD data.

[03:47:04] It is useless. It is meaningless, giving COVID, changes in commuting patterns, outmigrations, work at home, the federal government moving some agencies out of D.C.

[03:47:23] The circumstances that we are currently in are markedly different than 2019. I also take issue with COG determining what that projected population growth is based on 2019 or prior data and then ascribing to us a share of the housing that we are required to approve and allow.

[03:47:51] Last time I checked, we were elected to represent Prince William County, not COG's numbers. And I think we need to consider this in the context of what Prince William County needs, not necessarily what COG wants to apportion to us.

[03:48:07] I would similarly note that in the past, COG's forecasts have been horribly wrong. They have over-forecast growth consistently for the past 20 years, and we build to that.

[03:48:25] And I'm not sure that these numbers include what's actually in the pipeline in terms of approved yet unbuilt units. If we do what COG wants us to do, you can throw out any realistic shot of increasing the commercial percentage of our tax base.

[03:48:46] Because what you're going to do is exponentially increase the reliance on residential and individual taxes, particularly those of the people that aren't included on these charts. And then I've noticed something interesting in both the ownership and the rental unit gap analysis.

[03:49:04] You know, there's not really a gap when you're talking about the 51 to 81 percent AMI. There's no compression on those units. You've got enough of them available by your own numbers, or according to 2019, that there's not really any need to construct anymore in those two bands.

[03:49:27] Again, but I'm going to repeat myself, do we know what the circumstance is now as opposed to 2019? If we don't know what the 2024 percentages are or what the relationship is 2024 to 2019, we're just kind of throwing darts at a dartboard.

[03:49:48] it's even more pronounced when you get into the ownership supply, where you've got roughly a $35,000 or 35,000 unit surplus existing units in the 51 to 120% AMI bands. I mean, I think before we go down the road of looking at, you know, approving more, more residential units, we need to determine exactly what we've got, what the market percentages are in terms of what's occupied, what's available, what's not available, where's the compression, and that sort of thing.

[03:50:24] I mean, you say that the numbers are obvious. Well, they're obvious to me, but I think my version of what's obvious is significantly different than what yours is. The numbers are telling me a completely different story.

[03:50:44] You know, we're talking about, you know, COG is asserting that at least 75% of the new housing should be affordable to low and middle income households. Where's the data to support this? And how are you going to convince somebody to do it? Given circumstances now, the increased interest rates, I don't know. I mean, I don't see this as being ultimately successful when you may just drive the prices of units down overall. I mean, it seems like there's a significant number

[03:51:19] available units that we need to actually take a step back and figure out where we actually stand before we start developing policy based on data that's five years old. And I think that's most evident when you start looking at the comp plan affordable housing goals in terms of units that you want to build. You've got workforce housing here at 80 to 120 percent AMI, and the goal is

[03:51:53] 74,600 units, your graphing shows we're already there, or we're nearing that, but we've got 23,000 units that aren't in demand for that band. I'm just going to repeat myself, but I think we need to take a step back, reassess the numbers, use some realistic numbers, and not go on stale COG data. Thank you. So I'm happy to address several of those points, provide some clarification.

[03:52:34] With regards to this presentation, it does use 2019 data. However, COG does have more updated data that all of the jurisdictions were responsible for providing. The round 10 forecast for population growth, for population forecasts and employment forecasts, that was completed within the last year it was so that effort was done after we got through the worst of covid and there were discussions as part of that process in terms of how do you factor in for instance the impact on teleworking in terms of job growth but we do have more updated data as part of the round 10 forecast

[03:53:11] those forecasts are not produced by cog top down and then given to each jurisdiction each jurisdiction may have a slightly different process but i can speak to this when i was in montgomery county because montgomery county planning department was a part of the round 10 update and in that instance they used data such as approved housing units that were in the pipeline population additional zoning changes from recently adopted master plans and other data

[03:53:45] that basically came from within the county that were then plugged into the formulas that are used to produce the forecast and then the jurisdiction worked with the COG staff and then essentially looked at every other jurisdiction's numbers and looked at their, you know, they may have some slight tweaks in their methodology, but each jurisdiction is directly involved in creating the data and providing the data for the forecast, so I do want to just provide that clarification and again to say that we actually do have updated, more updated numbers in terms of population and job growth.

[03:54:19] With regards to the regional housing targets, again, that was not a top-down COG staff developed it and every jurisdiction was required to adopt it. I mentioned earlier that, again, this effort took place in 2019 and involved the COG's Planning Director's Technical Advisory Committee, which I've been on for several years back from when I was working at the DC Office of Planning through my time at Montgomery County and now in Prince William County.

[03:54:46] And the Planning Directors Technical Advisory Committee, which includes planning directors, deputies, and other staff from pretty much every planning office throughout this region in D.C., Maryland, and Virginia, worked with the Housing Directors Technical Advisory Committee, very similar makeup, housing directors from around the region.

[03:55:05] And we work collectively with COG staff to pull in the data from our own jurisdictions, know population growth housing pipeline et cetera to work collectively to create and identify these regional housing targets those targets then went to the cog board which are representatives of elected officials from around the region and the cog board adopted those targets since then some specific jurisdictions have adopted the the jurisdictions the county or cities share and that happened in prince william county as i understand in 2022

[03:55:41] the board of supervisors adopted this 26 000 unit share for prince william county as part of the 320 000 regional housing targets so i wanted just to provide that clarification in terms of where these numbers the numbers that we're actually looking at we're looking we're using these numbers again i understand it from 2019 and i can't you know i've only been here for a little over a month but I think even with this 2019 data just based off of the more recent data that I know I've seen in different discussions around housing affordability specifically affordable housing as well as housing supply and

[03:56:19] challenges with that the specific numbers may shift but the overarching trends are still the same and so I think these the issues that we're raising here is still relevant even though we may have more updated data now madam chair If there's new data, then I think we should see it, because that's not what I'm seeing in reports out of other agencies.

[03:56:44] I mean, it's quite clear that there is some level of out-migration from the inner jurisdictions, more so Fairfax than Prince William County, but we're definitely growing at a slower growth than was previously forecast. So unless I see this new data, I'm not willing to really kind of accept it on faith right now.

[03:57:04] you're asserting that COG, you know, doesn't do this from top down and allocate the numbers out to the county. That's not the way that it's been presented to this board or at least to the residents. I can't say to speak to the board having only been here for a year, but the way that it's been presented to the residents in numerous presentations over the last at least 10 years and probably 20 years is that this is the number that COG has told us that we need to, that we need to construct. If that's not the case, then we need to make that clear. Lastly, if that is the

[03:57:39] case, or if that is some portion of the case, I'll simply remind everybody that I am not beholden to COG. I am not beholden to COG's forecast. I am not beholden to COG's demands. I'm beholden to the residents and taxpayers of Prince William County, and quite frankly, don't give a damn what COG wants. So I want to tag onto that, and then we're going to go to Supervisor Port.

[03:58:04] Then we're going to go to Supervisor Bowie and then Supervisor Gordy, and then we're going to move on to Supervisor's time. I just want to make sure that I'm understanding regarding COG. Are there numbers of suggestions?

[03:58:20] It's not like there's nothing that if we don't hit it, you know, we get a failing grade. Like, what happens? It's a target. A target is an aspirational goal of where we see across the region what the need is and the number of housing units that across the region we believe would be needed to meet the needs of our residents.

[03:58:43] But again, it is a target. It is not a requirement. There is no, you know, if you don't meet this target, there will be some type of consequence to you. It doesn't work that way. It's really intended to be, you know, it's raising the issue. the larger issue is that we need more housing because there is a gap in the supply of housing across the region at different income levels. And the purpose of the target is to identify what is an actual number that we should be aiming for to try to close that gap. And then we can then use that target to track our progress towards meeting that target. But again, it is not a

[03:59:21] requirement. All right. Thank you. I'm going to go on to Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. I will try to be as quick as possible. I do have some questions first. In your last slide, you talked about the timeline. Can you just give us a quick smorgasbord of the type of stakeholders you'll be engaging with those stakeholder meetings?

[03:59:41] Sure. Thank you, Supervisor Birdie, members of the board. I'm David McGettigan from the planning office. We are reaching out to different groups, both from the development side, the Northern Virginia Building Industries Association.

[04:00:06] There's nonprofit developers of affordable housing, as well as for-profit that specialize in affordable housing. We are reaching out to voice to other, the Northern Virginia Housing Association, the Virginia Alliance.

[04:00:28] So that was the word I was looking for. And other providers of housing, and in addition to those who provide homeless services and shelter, as well as we are going to interact with our housing board and get their input as well.

[04:00:49] I appreciate that, and I appreciate the fact that you're casting sort of a wider net, because in my experience, at least the first term, I encountered developers that frankly stopped doing business in Prince William County that were either nonprofit or for-profit ones because of some of the challenges they had doing business here.

[04:01:07] So I appreciate us opening the net there to bring some folks in that isn't all the handful or so of folks that we see that bring us applications every month or so. So I appreciate that. My second question is on that previous slide before this one.

[04:01:22] So the next steps, explore additional zoning affordable housing tools. And I guess, Mr. McGarry and Ms. Washington, You'd be the best to sort of talk about that. Can you give us a sampling of what those might be as well that you're thinking about? Sure. So a number of things.

[04:01:38] One, looking at accessory dwelling units, looking at different housing types in our menu in the planned mixed residential district. We have a menu of different housing types, and there's some missing middle housing types that we're going to try and address.

[04:01:55] We have some enabling legislation called incentive zoning that we need to explore and look at and see what we can do with incentive zoning and the zoning ordinance to provide more affordable housing. And there's a fourth thing.

[04:02:11] We're going to just generally look at the zoning ordinance for barriers to affordable housing. I appreciate that. And my last sort of, not a question, it's more of a comment. So I appreciate this. I appreciate the work that's been done, and I appreciate how far we've come already and where we're going to be going with this.

[04:02:32] I also believe, as Ms. Duckett does at Housing for All, I think we're not doing as great of a job as a county government unless we're making sure that our folks that want to reside in Prince William County can comfortably with the lifestyle, the occupation they choose. So just as we're looking at talking about, as we always do, firefighters, police officers, teachers, what have you, I believe that first slide that talks about baristas, bartenders, line cooks, those folks that serve our community every single day, they have just as much right to find an affordable place to live in our county as anyone else.

[04:03:02] So I appreciate that. The last thing I'll say about the conversation about, you know, the units that we have and the disparity between those middle AMIs and those outer AMIs and how that's kind of an issue is gets back to the tools in place. Because I see the disparity is that right now we have not enough housing on the low end, not enough housing on the high end.

[04:03:23] Therefore, it's pushing everyone in the middle, which causes a lot of issues where, yes, we have a surplus in those middle AMIs. but because everyone's being pushed there, no one is in a place that's ideal for their current income level. And so we have folks that are, frankly, C-suite corporate-level folks.

[04:03:41] They're competing with middle-income earners, competing with low-income earners, all for the same kind of housing. And so, frankly, all of our tools here, which I think is the point of this, have to respond to a multi-pronged approach. This means that the point of the Affordable Trust Fund, it needs to be able to, yes, get those folks who need acute, immediate housing assistance, what they need right now.

[04:04:04] But until we address the systemic issue, which is the housing stock and those housing shortages at those income levels, we're only putting a Band-Aid on a much larger issue. So I like the conversation we've had about having a whole menu of items, because frankly, that's, to me, the only way we'll be able to address not only acute people who have the pain right now, and make sure we're not coming back here, not our board necessarily, but the board 20 years from now, looking at this and still going, how come we haven't made any progress here?

[04:04:35] So I just wanted to say that, and again, thank you all for your efforts, and I hope we can continue this conversation well beyond adoption of the affordable housing, affordable dwelling unit ordinance, and my way, I fully support what's in the budget currently to start building out the office to make sure we have folks in place to begin doing that work in a more focused way.

[04:04:54] Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. I just want to say this. We're going to go to Supervisor Gordy, and then we're going to move on in the agenda. I had mentioned that earlier. I know this is a great conversation, but I'm also worried about us going round and round in circles, and we are going to have other times to discuss this, so I'm going to go on to Supervisor Gordy, and then we're going to move on in the agenda.

[04:05:13] Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Ms. Washington and Ms. Tuckett, for this presentation. I do want to echo what Supervisor Gordy just said. That's a new term. I hate when you guys are together on my screen.

[04:05:31] I'm one half near the other half, super boring. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, we have a developer community in this county that has a complete lack of creativity. I'm just going to say it.

[04:05:47] You either need a townhouse or a single-family house. That's it. And so I'm excited that Chair and I and Ms. Washington sat through a briefing today with the redevelopment plan for the Manassas Mall, which will bring a thousand rental units that are multi-story, eight-story, potentially up to eight-story to give us something that we don't have in this county. And it's until we start pressing for creativity. And oh, by the way,

[04:06:22] that's in an activity center. That's where transit is located. And when we talk about PRTC having its financial problems, well, guess what? We've not created the density level to sustain good transit in this community. Now we're having to have the taxpayers basically in this county have a 60% increase in our budget allocation for them for this next year. As you get back to the point of 75% of development should be within the activity centers, I think part of the challenge

[04:06:56] and the opportunity is, as we talked about in our meeting today, having activity center plans that sort of focus in those areas of our county that we've designated as our activity centers. And we get very creative and we lay out what our expectations are to ensure that we are getting the type of housing that's going to meet these needs.

[04:07:20] But on the question on the budget side, I would say is when we get to the potential housing trust fund elements, a couple of things. Number one, we talk about the loans. Would a developer receive a loan and a potential density bonus at the same time?

[04:07:44] Yes, sir. They would, depending on the development that they had and the gap financing that they needed to make those units affordable, it would be both. Okay, thank you. And then the other piece, in terms of the FTEs that you're bringing on, I've sat through some affordable housing meetings, and I'm sort of frustrated by the amount of red tape that developers have to go through just to get funding for low-income housing and the amount of time it takes to get that.

[04:08:17] It seems to be it works against us if we're trying to get to affordable housing and developers having to pay three people six-figure salaries just to figure out these grant processes and to get the money to be able to help get this. It seems to me we're kind of making this very, very difficult.

[04:08:36] And I'm not saying this is a county problem. I'm talking about this from a federal government and even a state-level problem. Will any of these FTEs help facilitate and help direct and serve as advisors to help simplify that process for folks who are looking at trying to get some of these resources to help address the housing for those at the 80% and below?

[04:09:03] I certainly hope so okay this is this is my first rodeo so I'm learning as I go along and I do realize that there is the need for someone that will be able to review just that very thing to be an underwriter and to make the process I like the process as simple as possible so I've also applied for and it's I I think we have been approved for a $20,000 Virginia housing grant that will help me in this process specifically for the trust fund to know how it works, how to set it up, and

[04:09:42] how to work with the developers as well. So I am learning. Okay, thank you. And my last question is tonight, we have two cases that are coming up, which include some affordable units within it. Within one of the proffers, it states that they will advertise the home for six months, And then if the house is not sold as an affordable unit, that whatever the difference between the affordable price and the sale price was, 50% of that would go into the Affordable Housing Trust Fund.

[04:10:18] Particularly, Ms. Washington, based on your experience and what you're seeing from other localities, is that the right approach? My gut reaction is there is no one answer to that. It really depends on the project.

[04:10:33] In some cases, projects can deliver the affordable units as part of their mix, and that's sufficient. In other cases, they may need additional financing or help with additional financing. And so they may look to the local jurisdiction if they have some type of housing trust fund to provide that gap.

[04:10:49] In some cases, they may need a combination. So it really just depends. We may have a little bit more conversation about that this evening when we take up those two cases. But I saw that as a proffer and without the benefit of an affordable housing ordinance, We are sort of wading into this a little bit ahead of any real strict guidance.

[04:11:15] But from what I've been told is that this is a pretty common practice in surrounding jurisdictions. And until we get our ordinance, this may be what we have to live with in the short term. Thank you. All right.

[04:11:30] Thank you. So I know Supervisor Rear and Supervisor Bailey had comments. But if you want to bring it up during Supervisor's time, because I need to move the agenda on. So, and I had mentioned earlier that, you know, after Supervisor Gordy, we're going to move on from this section.

[04:11:46] Thank you so very much, Ms. Washington and your team. Thank you, Chris, and everyone who has, you know, shepherded us through the budget work sessions. So in Supervisor's time, before we get with individual updates, we're going to need to address items 11A through 11K.

[04:12:04] I'd like to entertain a motion that we approve the appointments made and 11a through 11k so moved second all right let's vote vote unanimous all right we are now going to move on to supervisor's time everyone has five minutes to speak i'm going to break with protocol because supervisor franklin does have a conflict so i'm going to allow her to go first sure thank you um and i'll make this uh very quick um on february 28th standard communities

[04:12:43] and i hosted a groundbreaking ceremony for the affordable housing project at jefferson plaza on Richmond Highway. This is an eight-acre site that will be transformed. We completely tore Jefferson Plaza down to do this redevelopment project. We'll include 147 one-bedrooms and 93 two-units, and it is restricted to 60% AMI. And so when we talk about affordable housing, this is an example of how we're actually moving that vision forward. On February 29th, I hosted a virtual town hall on a new rezoning application for Belmont Bay.

[04:13:22] We heard from Woodbridge residents, and we will continue to have that discussion as we continue to meet kind of throughout the community with some of the different subgroups within Belmont Bay. And on March 10th, I spoke at the annual Grayson Family Tomb event sponsored by the Colonel William Grayson Chapter of the Virginia Society of the Sons of the American.

[04:13:48] Revolution. And on tomorrow, I will be co-hosting the Women's History Month program, our fourth annual, I do believe, at the Ferlazzo Building, honoring outstanding women in our community, alongside Supervisor Bailey. Also, just lastly, I want to do a notice of intent for Douglas Caston to the Historical Commission, and then also want to take this time to recognize Jonathan Valatoro, who was a Freedom High School student killed over the weekend in a horrible car accident.

[04:14:21] I will say there were others involved who made it out just fine, and so we're thankful and blessed by that, but just want to send my condolences not only to his family, but to the Freedom High School family as well, who I've been in touch with. So with that, Madam Chair, I do yield.

[04:14:38] All right, thank you so very much. We're going to go to Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I want to wish all of those within our Muslim community a happy Ramadan. I was honored to join the Adams of Gainesville community on Sunday evening for their kickoff event for Ramadan, and I just want to wish everyone a blessed and peaceful Ramadan as you celebrate that and for an easy fast for those who are observing.

[04:15:09] I also attended on Saturday the state championship class six basketball game where our Patriot Pioneers played. Unfortunately, they came up short, but I want to congratulate Coach Sherman Rivers and his his basketball team.

[04:15:27] A fantastic group of young men showed a lot of class and a lot of sportsmanship on the court and off the court. and very proud of them and look forward to greater things coming from them going forward.

[04:15:44] Last Friday, I joined Supervisor Cervega in a meeting at the Manassas Airport and also with Mr. Shorter to try to begin to understand their expansion plans and what the potential impact will be on Prince William County since we completely surround the airport.

[04:16:03] So as we continue to have that dialogue with them and try to understand that, the transportation challenges associated, noise issues associated, I hope that they will come to us and share with us as a whole board what the opportunities and the challenges are there.

[04:16:21] I also had the opportunity on Friday to visit with Mount Pleasant Baptist Church on Route 29. Mount Pleasant Baptist Church had a devastating fire about 12, 13 years ago, and they've still been trying to rebuild.

[04:16:39] Unfortunately, you know, they got caught up in some permitting challenges, Mr. Hugh. But they've gotten through it, and we're hopeful to have them in their new building by the end of the year. And then tonight we are going to be discussing two cases which has led us to have conversations with our superintendent of schools, Ms. Tanya McDade, along with Chair Lateef and our own school board member, Erica Trdenik, who happens to also be my chief of staff,

[04:17:15] to try to figure out how we're going to address the challenges related to students uh uh coming from these developments and um so tonight we'll be having more conversation about that but um looking for a way to address those challenges and and and demonstrating to the school system that we do have tremendous growth headed our way and um and we need to come up with a plan a good better plan from the school system to address that um today we voted on a uh to accept some equipment from Lowe's of Gainesville on behalf of our fire department. I want to thank

[04:17:54] the Gainesville Lowe's for doing that. They've been a great partner over the years for our community and really want to give a shout out to them. And then lastly, I had the opportunity to meet with the Dollies who run Burnside Farm. If you're not aware, here in about two weeks, There is going to be a show of color in Noakesville at Burnside Farm as 2 million tulips come to bloom.

[04:18:28] Check out their website. Find out when they're open, and it's a great place for families to go and visit. And just check out this wonderful gem that we have in this county. They're expecting about 50,000 people from all over the place come here to Prince William County and spend their money.

[04:18:46] So we appreciate their economic input and the hard work that they do to bring this farm to fruition and to create such a special opportunity for our community. Thank you.

[04:19:02] Oh, and I do have one intent to appoint James Yankee to the Strategic Plan Community Advisory Committee, and the staff has sent his resume and contact information to the clerk. Thank you. Thank you so much. Supervisor Vega. wasn't expecting to go next but thank you I can go ahead just want to thank folks over at the staple mills community I'm if you all recall this was the community that came out during the edge car wash application who had some concerns about some traffic challenges in the area and what that would mean on with the car wash coming in also want to give a special thank you to the

[04:19:39] applicant because they actually flew in for this town hall they didn't have to do that we all know that once an application or a decision for land use case is made it's pretty much a done deal but they still came down and heard some of the concerns want to thank also our Department of Transportation for being there and for addressing some of the concerns that were raised and for the additional information that is going to be coming in the near future want to just remind folks that we have a joint town hall coming up with our chair in regards to the 28 bypass I'm also want to flag our district annual Easter egg

[04:20:16] hunt which is going to be held on March 30th I know that it's a little bit of too soon of a notice if you will but the sooner folks know about our in-district events the better also want to thank our county executive and Nikki along with folks over at the airport for hosting that meeting we've had a lot of emails I would say Tom from our constituents wanting answers to some of the concerns they have and so just want to thank folks for making themselves available and for agreeing to include us um in whatever decision making uh process uh that will be coming up um here in the near future um i believe that is all i have madam chair oh i'm sorry nope on april 12th the

[04:20:55] coles little league will be having their um season opener i unfortunately will be out of town so i cannot attend but just want to highlight what a wonderful league this is and an event and if you're able to make it it will be held at 6 p.m at hillbuck park and i also wish the league a wonderful season thank you madam chair thank you supervisor bailey thank you madam chair on february good afternoon everyone february 22nd i want to thank uh the black prince william county black history month program committee for a wonderful program entitled the new negro movement my staff and i attended um the open house for the new planning director miss tanya washington welcome aboard

[04:21:33] again did a great job on your presentation today february 23rd thanks to my staff for attending the 2024 Business Awards. Congratulations to many winners and to Dr. Carol Shapiro for receiving the Charles J. Kogan Visionary Award. She's just a hero in our community. February 24th, I was pleased to participate in the Dumfries Black History Month program, along with other elected officials, including Madam Chair, held at the Little Union Baptist Church, and it was wonderful. On the 26th, thanks to the Transportation Department, Rick Anasales, Monica Backman,

[04:22:12] Terry Yates, and their remarkable team for hosting the Fuller Heights, finally, Fuller Heights ribbon-cutting. Thanks to Chair Jefferson, Colonel Brooks, for supporting, and the churches in the community that came out to celebrate this momentous occasion that has been there happening for years, and to Master G, Master Gunnery Sergeant Jeremiah Burns for the wonderful barbecue buffet that he did for us.

[04:22:40] On the 27th, thanks to Transportation and Planning and Chair Jefferson and our Planning Director, Washington, for meeting with the county in support of the Ashland Community Town Hall.

[04:22:56] I think it was beneficial to all. Madam Chair, thank you for running down the aisle and adding your comments to the program meeting. It was wonderful. I would like to thank the Dumfries leadership for meeting with Chair Jefferson and I to talk about the strategic plan for Dumfries and the next steps thereof.

[04:23:17] On the 28th, it was an honor for my team and I to attend the Commonwealth Coffee with Senators Kane and Warner. It was wonderful for Black History Month. And thanks to Caprice Piper and the Divine Inspiration Dancers for closing out our Potomac District Black History Month celebration on the 28th.

[04:23:35] And then on the 29th leap year, I'm overjoyed to have had another ribbon cutting for the largest Chick-fil-A in the Mid-Atlantic region. And thanks to our board for voting unanimously. Come get a sandwich, please.

[04:23:51] And thanks to the owner, Natalie Yang. Natalie is a true community partner, and she always helps with the schools in our community, so congratulations. On the third, I had the pleasure of celebrating with Ebenezer Baptist Church on their 141st church anniversary.

[04:24:08] Many thanks on the fifth to Chair Jefferson and her staff for joining me and my team on a tour of the Potomac District and your wonderful ideas going forward. Thanks to Darrell for offering our fleet to do so. It was a nice ride.

[04:24:23] I really enjoyed it. that was a special day. March 7th, thanks to my staff for attending the 2024 Women's Conference with the Chamber of Commerce. Upcoming events on March 13th, in recognition of Women's History Month, I will be joining my colleague, Supervisor Franklin and Dr. Howard of the National Coalition of 100 Black Women to host the 2024 Women's Appreciation Event, celebrating 24 of our wonderful advocates and leaders here in Prince William County, focusing on who advocates for equity, diversity, and inclusion. Looking forward to that wonderful event. On the 24th, I'd like to invite

[04:25:03] you to the Potomac District community as we talk about the Van Buren Extension from 530 to 8 o'clock at Henderson Elementary School. With that, I'd like to make the notice of intent for Mr. Robert Bear Palmer to the Strategic Commission, Patrice Somers to the Strategic Commission, Mr. William Selfridge to the Trails and Blue Ways, and Althea Pope for Racial and Social Justice.

[04:25:29] And then lastly, please save the date for our annual PwC Mental Health Awareness Walk. It will be on Saturday, May the 18th from 10 to 2 p.m. at Locashade Park again with a rain date of Saturday, May 25th. Madam Chair, thank you.

[04:25:46] Thank you. Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll make this real quick. First off, without objection, I'd like to issue a directive to the county exec in conjunction with the zoning administrator to develop an index of zoning determinations to be made available online and in person for public inspection to ensure that board members and concerned parties have a tool to search for cases and decisions of interest and to publish, if not already available, a conditional zoning index in accordance with 15.2-2300 of the state code.

[04:26:25] Madam Chair. Supervisor Bode. Not an objection, just for clarity. I assume this has already been passed through both the CXO and the county attorney's office. I've spoken to this, well, generally speaking. I mean, when you start mentioning a specific state code, I just want to make sure that the county attorney's...

[04:26:45] I will withdraw the second half of that. Forget the publishing, the conditional zoning index. We'll take care of that separately. Supervisor Bailey. Yeah, in reference to the directive, is that something that the county is doing already on the change of codes?

[04:27:01] Is that a part of that? I'm just trying to understand. This is my first time hearing it. I would need to do research. I'm actually not sure if this is something that the county is producing. If allowed, I would like to follow up with the board on this.

[04:27:19] I just haven't talked to the supervisor about it. All I'm asking for is development of a process or the initial stages. The board will have to vote on whether or not we want to actually do it once the framework is constructed, if it can be constructed.

[04:27:37] Madam Chair. Supervisor Franklin. I think the directive should be for the county exec and perhaps the county attorney to look into doing whatever it is. Your friendly amendment is accepted. No, I mean, that actually works fine.

[04:27:59] That works just as well. Yes. Secondly, give my notice for two resolutions to be on next month's agenda regarding Section A of the board rules regarding regular meetings.

[04:28:17] specifically with respect to ending them at midnight or sometime around there at the discretion of the board, and Section F, Part 2, regarding when the agenda is sent out. Now, returning to, since you've offered to let me speak to this during my supervisor's time, I want to return.

[04:28:37] I will just say real quickly with Section A and Section F, as long as everything is thoroughly vetted by the county attorney and all questions are asked, just make sure that the language is tight. That's already been reviewed.

[04:28:49] Correct. Madam County Attorney the supervisor we're which I thought there were three that you were I pulled one you pulled one. Okay, so it's the F2 and a one a one is the if meetings and yeah midnight provided the second one was tentative agenda the tentative agenda. Okay, so you pulled the one on the committee. Oh, no, madam chair. What did I pull you pulled the one about notices of

[04:29:30] 10 for at large. I'm going to quickly jump right back on my bandwagon with respect to the data. I take issue with the assertion that setting a target or a goal doesn't have consequences. They necessarily have consequences from both a planning and a policy standpoint in this case, and usually with significant development budget and tax implications.

[04:29:58] I also take issue sort of with pigeonholing people into pursuing housing that fits their level of AMI. I would suggest that those above 120 percent AMI, a significant number of them, have no desire to live in the higher-priced either rental or ownership units.

[04:30:19] That's kind of how they get to the plus 120 percent, is by being somewhat frugal in many places. I don't think we should be determining what their expenditure choices are. And then last but not least, I would simply note if one of the goals is to put 75% of the new housing and activity centers, that's not something we've been doing.

[04:30:40] And it's certainly not something that we're going to see coming before this board in the next couple of months. So I would just ask everybody to bear that in mind. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you. Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. Very quickly, on the 21st of February, I was proud to attend alongside some of my colleagues the Mobile Library Ribbon Cutting at Chin Park Library.

[04:31:02] Hopefully it will be the first of many mobile libraries that we just de-deployed to the community. On the 22nd of February, I went to our NBRC meeting. I wanted to highlight this specific NBRC meeting, Northern Virginia Regional Commission, because not only did we get an update on the workforce programs by NOVA, Northern Virginia Community College, we also took action authorizing the executive director to enter into a task order for land-use impact modeling and assessment for the Occoquan Water Monitoring Laboratory.

[04:31:31] In brief, that basically the water modeling, water state that everyone's been asking for for a couple years now, that allows us to move to the next step of that so we can fully evaluate the future water quality of the Occoquan Reservoir. On the 20th of February, we had our Occoquan District Boards Committee and Commission Appreciation Dinner.

[04:31:50] Appreciate all the appointees that came out to it. A lot of great discussion and appreciate all the appointees that we have in place that we approved today to serve the Occoquan District in those capacities. On the 20th of February, I chaired my first Metropolitan Washington Air Quality Control Committee, or MWAC for short.

[04:32:09] Really great committee that's doing a lot of good work in the space of air quality control for the region, so was proud to chair my first meeting of that. On the 8th of March, I was able to join my first COG Human Services Policy Committee, my alternate to Supervisor Bailey, my colleague.

[04:32:26] Really great work in that committee is being done as well, so I wanted to commend my colleague on everything they're working on in that space. in terms of coming up events tomorrow night 6 38 o'clock i am co-hosting a strategic plan charrette with chair jefferson at lake ridge middle school cafeteria again that's tomorrow night 6 38 8 o'clock looking forward to talking to folks there really appreciate uh miss wallace and all the other county staff were able to support that effort and finally on april 6th from 10 a.m until noon canine dunner dog park will be having their march madness style 16 dog

[04:33:01] competition for the crowns the county's first ulti mutt cutie that's the called the pooch playoffs pooch pay playoffs sorry the prize is swag filled wag bag fame and a pup task bragging way right so hopefully folks will be able to come out to canine gunner dog park on minnieville road on april the 6th thank you madam chair all right thank you supervisor angry thank you madam chair i just realized we haven't been here for like three weeks it's a lot to report but i can't do all of that. So take too much time, and I'm hungry. So I'm going to just give you my notice

[04:33:38] of intent in a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. So notice of intent to reappoint Christopher Frederick to the Racial and Social Justice Commission, Paul Frazier to the Weapons Control Committee, and Ross Snare to the Parks and Rec Commission. I want to just take a moment to recognize a great life. Deputy Chief Van Horn, he's a volunteer in Dale City, a volunteer Fire Department, been there for 51 years. He passed away. They're going to have a celebration of life service for him at DeSanto Community Hall, which is Fire Station 13 on Hill and Dale Road,

[04:34:15] the corner of Hill and Dale and Dale Boulevard. That'll be Saturday, March 23rd at 12 p.m. And in lieu of flowers, the family's requesting that remembrances be made in the form of donations to the Dale City Volunteer Fire Department. I will just start real quick on a wrap-up is going to Tom, Supervisor Gordy's open house.

[04:34:38] That was a great, great time, all right? It's a great time, so I want to just acknowledge you for inviting us all out there to be a part of that. And then if I'm just going to jump through real quick, I'm going to slide over here to this next week. Okay, Neopsco Elementary School, we now have an orchard in Neopsco District.

[04:34:59] So they were very, let me try to get this right here. So they applied for a grant, and through the help of the Fruit Tree Planning Foundation, Volkswagen paid and sponsored it, and Earth Day Org came out by 30 volunteers, 40 trees of orange peaches.

[04:35:21] I'm going to get it wrong. It was a list of trees, but they're all up on the hill, displayed on the hill of the school, so they're going to have their own orchard there, so the kids will be able to go out and actually collect that fruit, eat that fruit, and so it's a great community so want to definitely recognize that uh and then um let's see what i missed let me get here i got a little time left this is what happens when you don't put it all in one sheet uh i know right okay so birksdale community center they redid the playground there so we're going to be doing a rededication ceremony on march 20th at 2 p.m that's at the birksdale community center so if

[04:35:59] you uh want to come out there and be a part of that please do and then lastly i'm just going to say so um this saturday uh you know the ladies of alpha kappa alpha kappa alpha sorority incorporated yes the omicron chi chapter uh recognized me at their uh their women's history month but it was the gospel fest 26th annual gospel fest i knew nothing about i thought i was going to a gospel fest and i got there and they recognized me they did a whole program on men uh in public service

[04:36:35] and uh recognized me as being the first african-american on the board and all that kind of good stuff so i really want to recognize them for that honor because that was a really big deal for me so thank you very much all of the akas yes so uh and madam chair i mean i could go on for days but i'm gonna stop right there and uh thank you i love to say we're hungry all right thank you um so i am i have a couple directives and several notices of intent first directive we talked a little bit about moving the evening session up to seven o'clock and that puts us in line with the public comment time um for the planning commission so i'm going to make

[04:37:15] a directive around that without objection objection i would like to direct county staff to prepare a brief resolution to amend the board's rules of procedure and the adopted board meeting schedule slash calendar to show the evening sessions of the the board meetings would start at 7 p.m. instead of 7.30.

[04:37:32] I would like staff to place the draft resolution on the agenda for an upcoming board meeting for the board's consideration. As some upcoming agenda items have already been advertised for public hearings starting at 7.30 p.m., the draft resolution would have an effective date with enough lead time to allow the proper notification for public hearings.

[04:37:56] The second objective does tie into what we're talking around housing, and I know some of my colleagues may not agree, but housing is something, you know, that is critical. And we can debate how much housing we need, what type of housing, but it is critical.

[04:38:12] And one of the things I'd like to see is a home ownership program or a down payment program, at least to have the discussion around that for public, you know, for our public safety officers, our teachers, you know, our county employees. You know, we do have a critical shortage of frontline workers, and it would be great if there's some way that we can incentivize them to actually live in the county and, you know, cut down on their commute, and hopefully this will help again with, you know, recruitment and retention.

[04:38:42] So without objection, I would like to direct the county executive to research the feasibility of establishing an employee home ownership incentive program. Such research include program structure, fiscal impact, and other pertinent information for consideration by the board. When the research is completed, the county executive should report back to the board with the findings and a recommendation during a board meeting or by memorandum as appropriate.

[04:39:07] So I also would like to announce my notice of intent to appoint the following individuals to boards, committees, and commissions. The Honorable Hala Ayala to the Social Services Board, Brenda Jackson Sewell to the Library Board, Erica White to the Wetlands Board, Devine Barton to the Arts Council, Jesse Citizen to the Veterans Commission, Ruth Balton to the Strategic Planning Advisory Committee, Justin Wilk to the Strategic Planning Advisory Committee.

[04:39:34] I'd also like to make the following reappointments. The Honorable Elizabeth Guzman to the Jail Board, Cozy Bailey to the Jail Board, Dave Larson to the Wetlands Board, Byron Jenkins to the Racial and Social Justice Commission, Laura Hafler to the Animal Advisory Committee, William McCarthy to Trails and Blue Ways Council, Patty Bright to the Animal Advisory Committee, Brenda Powers as a regular law enforcement representative to the Towing Ordinance Advisory Board.

[04:40:02] Andy Mason with Dominion Wrecker Service as a towing representative to the Towing Advisory Board. So those are my notices of intent. With that, we are now going to move into our recess before we have our 7.30, or we will reconvene at 7.30 for the evening portion of our agenda.

[04:40:26] Thank you.

[04:40:52] all right welcome back we are about to start the evening portion it is 7 30. we are going to start with the public hearings um item 13a the rezoning for bristol crossing i am now going to open the public hearing on item 13a do we have anyone sign up to speak oh we have sorry presentation all right

[04:41:30] we had it easy earlier with no presentations i'm sorry i'm like ready i'm like moving this train thank you good evening i'm sherman patrick with compton and dueling i'm here this evening

[04:42:02] representing JR Real Estate Group and the rector companies in this joint venture rezoning case. The property is closely tied. Two zoning cases are actually tied together, Bristow Crossing and Bristow Corner.

[04:42:19] So I'm prepared to do those at the same time so that we can make the best use of your time. Thank you. So the development concepts in both cases and the profit conditions are integrated in a way that they literally mirror one another.

[04:42:35] And so you'll see as we go through the presentation that the design is intended to work within the community and also to work together between the two communities. The site is located – is there a pointer in this?

[04:42:58] I'm sorry, they changed equipment on me, and it leaves me. Okay, so it's not perfect, but I can give you an arrow. Okay, great. Thank you. So the site is located here, outlined in the gold color with two ASCUS on it.

[04:43:16] There's actually two properties. The property is located southwest of the city of Manassas, which is the densely populated area you see here. Here's innovation of Prince William, the county's business park that has been developing. Here's George Mason University. The site is roughly three miles from George Mason University, and also less than that to the many employment opportunities that are in innovation.

[04:43:41] It's two and a quarter miles from the VRE station located here. So it's a good proximity to mass transit, and it is located in an area that has a number of retail opportunities, starting with Souter Place, which is actually a part of renovation, and then Bristow Center being very nearby.

[04:44:01] And then there's a commercial area here that is still developing known as New Bristow Village Commercial Area. This is blowing it up a little bit closer. You see Bristow Center at the top. bristow center is important because this site and this area this intersection is planned for mixed use and this development is a part of that mixed use area the avondale community is to our northwest and the new bristow village community is across nokesville road into the southeast vent hill road is one boundary for bristow corner and fitzgerald way which was the original alignment or an early

[04:44:38] alignment of Vent Hill Road, and when it was realigned over here five years ago, it got a new name, and there's a connection to Fitzgerald Way that gets us to Bristow Center. These slides are showing you the comprehensive plan on the left, and the mixed-use designation that I referred to is in gold in this slide, and the zoning map, the current zoning map, on the right. The Bristow Corner and Bristow Crossing properties are bisected with these red lines because these

[04:45:13] represent property lines. And I did it that way because I wanted to demonstrate that or emphasize that this is a property assemblage. As a property assemblage, it used to be used for all residential on wells and septic drain fields. And as an assemblage, it's not easy to go out and purchase these properties and put them all together and bring forward new development of the character that we're proposing this evening. Over in the zoning frame, you'll see that Avondale is already zoned planned mixed residential. New Bristow Village is also zoned planned mixed residential

[04:45:52] and Bristow Crossing and Bristow Corner are proposed for that planned mixed residential designation. So it will be consistent with those properties. I noted that down in this area of the map, you see an area that's shown for agriculture and forestry planning. But these, this corner is already carved up into 22 residential lots. Not all of them are currently occupied, but there are some houses that are along this frontage. The lots range in size from one half acre to two acres.

[04:46:28] There's even one that is further away from the intersection. It's nine acres. But even the nine acre lot is lawfully non-conforming in that it doesn't meet the minimum A1 designation zoning or minimum lot size of 10 acres. So all of this you can really consider as non-conforming residential development. This exhibit is to show you the proposed development dropped into an aerial photograph. Here again is Fitzgerald Way. This is the Bristow Crossing Center or the Bristow Center that I mentioned earlier, the retail area.

[04:47:03] The retail area has a broad range of commercial services, restaurants, financial services, medical services, all contained within that center, and, of course, the Harris Teeter grocery store, which you generally consider as being something very necessary and appropriate to have near a residential development.

[04:47:22] The site itself includes an existing church. There's a church that's been here for about 40 years, maybe longer than that, and they currently occupy a church building at this location. They had some lot area that was underutilized in the front, and so through an arrangement with this development proposal, they are making this available for development and for compensation, of course, and also included in that compensation will be the construction of a modern parking lot for them. Right now, they have a parking lot that has evolved over a number of years, it appears. It does not meet

[04:48:01] the county standards for drainage and slope and landscaping and the new parking lot will meet all of those standards. So here we have Bristow Crossing on this side of the property. It's the larger of the two sites. There are a number of amenities that are proposed. It has the existing church so it's a little bit different to have a development coming forward to you that already has an institutional use in place but it is considered a desirable asset for the community.

[04:48:31] The applicant is proposing single-family detached dwellings along this rear property line. There are 15 of them in Bristow Crossing, and then six more over here in Bristow Corner. And the reason that those are being used is because it's to help transition from Avondale.

[04:48:48] Avondale is a community of single-family detached dwellings, and although the lots are smaller than the lots that are being proposed here, and there is a 40-foot wide open space here, and the applicant's proposing another 20-foot wide open space with trail on the back of his property.

[04:49:05] There is a desire to ease the transition for them from being next door to an underdeveloped property to being integrated in with this community as well. You also see Bristow Corner over here. I want to point out that there's a clubhouse that's proposed in Bristow Corner, and I'll talk about that some more in a little bit later, and there are other amenities that are proposed throughout Bristow Crossing.

[04:49:31] These two communities are going to share these with one another, but they are also going to share them with Avondale, which I think is a very unique feature in this development. I've not seen it before. They're actually going to acknowledge the community that already exists instead of emphasizing boundaries between the old community and the new community.

[04:49:50] They are making their amenities available to the existing community. So it'll really function the way that people really live because it'll be seamless. There won't be this artificial boundary dividing the two subdivisions. This is a more up-to-date layout plan.

[04:50:10] It didn't have time to get it in color between the Planning Commission and the board. But I wanted to show this to you in particular because at the Planning Commission hearing, Some of the residents of Avondale were concerned about parking and whether parking would spill over into their community. And so what the applicant has done is he's added parking in this area of the development.

[04:50:31] In addition to having already added parking over on the Bristow corner side of the property, the property is about 100 spaces, 110 spaces over parked, if you look at the design and construction standards manual. I think that, too, is a little unique.

[04:50:46] You see here also the dog park. There is a proffered commitment now that was given after the Planning Commission to provide a solid board fence along this property boundary because of some concerns about the location of the dog park for one of the residents here.

[04:51:05] There's also a commitment to a solid board fence along with the buffer along this property boundary. And this is a community gathering area that I'll tell you more about a little bit later. But at the planning commission, it became important because this lot is not yet redeveloped and it is a little bit aged.

[04:51:27] And they wanted to make sure that there was a good separation here, completing the value and enjoyment of the gathering place. In addition, you'll see this circle here that's identifying a catalpa tree also saved late in the project.

[04:51:42] We had to do some redesign in this area when we recognized, Supervisor Gordy helped us recognize that there was a little bit unusual tree for this part of the state. There was a large Catalpa tree there, and Catalpa is a native to Virginia, but you don't see a lot of them in Prince William County.

[04:52:01] And so it is unique, and it was worth saving, and so the applicant has redesigned it so that he is providing that area. Here we have some more detailed enlargements of the, let me go back. So with the amenities that are being proposed in the project, you have a lot of open spaces interspersed throughout the community.

[04:52:31] And just starting at the top and working my way across, you have the community garden area. This will be available to residents for those who want to have vegetable gardens. There's a community leisure park, and the leisure park is intended as more of a passive park. That would be a place where you may be interested in going and sitting and reading a book, having quiet conversation.

[04:52:51] Here in the very center of the project, there's an active park. And the active park will have a playground and it will have a green that will be available for impromptu types of activities, throwing a softball, throwing frisbees, playing a game of soccer.

[04:53:08] Not a full soccer field, but things that people enjoy doing when they're outdoors. There's also an open space here that's attractive in the same sort of way that the leisure park is. There'll be benches and reasons to stop and linger in this area.

[04:53:24] And here we have the dog park, which I already mentioned. And here we have some multipurpose courts proposed in this area. And we're not committing it to a specific type of court because we know that recreational activity and desires for recreational activity change over time.

[04:53:45] and so we've seen many cases where you know first it was a basketball court and it was proper and then they had to come back in and change it and then it was a tennis court and then they had to come back and change it to do something else so we're just starting off with it being multi-use so that the HOA and the residents of the community can make those decisions over time as they as they enjoy the property and as desires and wants of the community change one of the The principal design features of the project is along Route 28 here.

[04:54:17] This area is required by the DCSM to have a buffer, and that buffer under normal circumstances is designed to hide the buildings that are from the road and vice versa. That does not always result in the best outcome in terms of planning.

[04:54:37] It doesn't create an area with a sense of place. It creates walled-off corridors that are not really desirable for the county. So in this instance, what we've asked for is a modified buffer here that will allow it to become a kind of a linear park along Route 28.

[04:54:53] There is a park trail that would be constructed here. You see it meandering through the area. The applicant is proposing exercise stations and benches and places where people will be drawn to so that they can enjoy this area. And all of the homes along Route 28 are going to face toward the road.

[04:55:12] So you're not seeing the backs of townhouses or the backs of buildings from Route 28. Instead, you'll see the fronts, and we think that will be very attractive. These are garage-type townhomes, and they are rear-loaded from the alley that runs parallel to Route 28, and that's one of the design techniques to allow them to have front-facing development along the road.

[04:55:34] So I have several enlargements of the activity areas. I won't spend a whole lot of time on these. This is the active park area. It could be a volleyball court or multi-use court. There will be a playground for children.

[04:55:52] In the community leisure park, there's a pavilion proposed and picnic tables and grills. In the activity area, this was an area that is also somewhat unique. It came from a conversation with staff about the arts and agricultural overlay. And so what they wanted to do, originally the pavilion for the gathering area was in the center of the project.

[04:56:16] But what the staff was talking about was the need for a place where the community can come for farmers markets and different types of activities. And so what we did was we combined those two ideas with an area here that we're calling the gathering area.

[04:56:33] It has the katalpa tree, which is a nice visual focus for the park. But it would also have a large pavilion for the community to use and a stamped concrete travelway here that would be appropriate for yard sales or food truck Friday if they wanted to do that.

[04:56:56] There are picnic tables and grills. We think this would be a very popular area. They can have art shows. They can have the farmers markets or whatever it is that they have in mind that they want to have in that area.

[04:57:12] This is an illustrative that gives you more detail on those. I won't spend a lot of time on that unless you want me to. And then we move on to Bristow Corner. And Bristow Corner will have, it's not as much area, so it doesn't have as much outdoor area available to it, but it has in its very center a proposed clubhouse.

[04:57:34] The clubhouse will be 2,500 square feet. As I said before, it will be available to the residents of Avondale. When we met and talked with them, Avondale has a lot of nice outdoor amenities, but they don't have a clubhouse, so they don't have any inside amenities that they can go to.

[04:57:50] And so that was where the idea came, that they could provide a clubhouse in this development and make it available to Avondale as well. It will also include a playground. I just want to point out that parking spaces were provided here for the playground and for the clubhouse so that we're not impinging on any of the resident parking.

[04:58:13] And with regard to parking, that's an old tabulation, but the number of parking spaces that are available for Bristow Corner is about 65 more than is required.

[04:58:33] Not about, that is the number. And the parking that is provided in Bristow Corner is 43 spaces more than is required. And so the parking for both communities is over 100 spaces above what the minimum requirements are.

[04:58:52] I have a few visuals. We'll go through these quickly. This is a view from the intersection of Fitzgerald looking down Noakesville Road. This gives you a better sense of the multi-use court that I mentioned. It also probably gives you a better representation of what the gathering area would look like.

[04:59:09] This is the pavilion. Here are the picnic tables, and this is that paved surface area where you could set up art shows or sidewalk sales or have food trucks come in along there and park without impacting the streets within the neighborhood.

[04:59:25] I should also point out that the streets in the community are private. There is a connection to a public street that goes into Avondale. That is an absolute requirement from Virginia Department of Transportation because of their connectivity goals.

[04:59:41] We do not need it to handle the traffic that this proposal is providing, but VDOT feels that it's very, very important that you have that interparcel connection so that the people from Avondale can visit people in Bristow Crossing without having to go out onto Fitzgerald Way or Vent Hill Road or Nokesville Road.

[05:00:04] You can see here also Terrace Teeter. This is a view looking from Route 28 at the intersection with Battalion Square. You can see the existing church building here. The property does have some slope to it, and that was one of the challenges for the design, but we think we've been able to address that really well.

[05:00:25] And this is showing a little bit of that linear park that I was talking about along Route 28. This is a view above the activity, the active park area within the community. Here's the playground, here's the green area that could be left as just green space or could be a volleyball court or could be improvised or temporary volleyball court and badminton and things of that nature.

[05:00:51] These are the single-family dwellings that are providing transition over to Avondale. I mentioned before that there is a 40-foot wide open space between Avondale and this property line, and then this applicant is adding another 20 feet to that. So the back property lines between these properties is a minimum of 60 feet.

[05:01:12] And then when you add the setbacks, the rear yard setbacks that are required, you have over 100 feet between the homes on the existing community and over to the new community. There's no buffer requirement. There's no separation requirement like that required by the DCSM.

[05:01:30] But this is being provided above and beyond the minimum requirements of the ordinance. We have parallel parking on street because that is possible because of the private streets. This is another view of the active park area, just a different angle.

[05:01:50] And here we just have a summary of the total number of units. So this is getting into the weeds, so I'm going to back up quickly before you tell me to sit down. Thank you very much for listening.

[05:02:06] If you have any questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them. We hope that you can view this positively this evening. I know there's lots of commentary, and there'll be some, and the staff has their presentation to make. I was actually going to go ahead and have the staff present, just in case that might answer some of the questions to the people on the dais that we may have.

[05:02:28] And then we'll do questions all at once. Thank you so very much. Good evening, Chair Jefferson, Supervisors.

[05:02:45] My name is Alex Venegas from the Planning Office, and I'm going to present. I did two presentations, but I'll be succinct. So the first one I'm going to cover is Bristow Crossing, and it consists of these eight assembled parcels.

[05:03:02] To the west, you have Avondale, and then you have Bristow Village on the east side of Noakesville Road. Bristow Center is the commercial shopping area. And then the Bristow Corner, which is the other applications, are these two parcels.

[05:03:23] just a note that there is an existing parcel between the two applications but the the applicant is proposing connections between the two developments staff is recommending approval of both cases in the long-range land use classification the area is mixed use three when we look at the mixed use three primarily we look at the whole contiguous area so this

[05:03:58] fits in with both providing residential which is greatly needed to augment and support the commercial component in the zoning ordinance this zoning district is currently a1 to the west we have PMR and to the south we have plan mix residential as well so this is just a natural infill of that so that it's consistent with both what's to the west

[05:04:31] and east these are the existing features that are on the existing property as well as what's proposed with the rezoning and proffers again this is mixed-use 3 there the range is 4 to 12 dwelling units per acre and the applicant is proposing 7.75 dwelling units per acre which is right in the

[05:05:03] middle of where we want it also the the parking per the DCSM is 457 spaces the applicant is providing 486. And then we have open space of plus or minus 34% of the site.

[05:05:25] This is the land use site layout. There's three land bays. The first one is all residential. The second one is the religious institution. And the last one is the community gathering area where there's opportunities for, as Sherman had mentioned, food trucks or other types of activities for the community.

[05:05:50] One thing that's important to note, again, VDOT recommended the inter-parcel connection. And I think, you know, I know that there's people in the community that don't necessarily want that, but I think it's important to get ingress and egress, have alternative routes in and out of the community.

[05:06:12] And then for connectivity, to have the sidewalks connect both communities in case, you know, people want to use certain amenities or, you know, to walk to church or whatever, you know, whatever their needs are to provide that connectivity.

[05:06:27] There's also a crosswalk proposed going to the Bristow Center, which is important because that gives people opportunity to walk to Harris Teeter. I know that the applicant was having some conversations with the center to see if there's opportunities to provide quicker routes to the Harris Teeter shopping plaza.

[05:06:57] So these are some of the amenities that are being proposed. Sherman went through all of these, but I think the important one to note are the trail system as well as the connectivity throughout the development. connectivity with the shopping center as well as the Avondale community. This is the illustrative that the applicant provided. So staff is recommending approval. Most of the comprehensive

[05:07:31] plan consistency sections were yes. We did have a no for environmental just because there are trees that are being taken down from one of the parcels let me go back so as you can see this area has a lot of trees and our environmental department felt like that was a concern that they you know weren't able to uh save any of those trees and then also there's uh water that comes over from actually avondale onto this parcel and uh it's shown on the county mapper it's not shown as er but

[05:08:10] but it's shown as, I guess, like an intermittent stream. So I just wanted to make you aware of that that's why we had some concerns. But altogether, staff is recommending approval for the following reasons in the staff report.

[05:08:27] The proposed zoning to PMR is consistent with what's surrounding it. The proposed development supports our housing policy where we're looking for diverse opportunities for mixed-income housing, and it's also consistent with our strategic plan goal six for sustainable growth.

[05:09:02] And Bristow Corner, formerly known as Bristow Plaza, this is a request to rezone 7.71 acres from A1 to PMR as well, planned mixed residential. It's going to consist of six single-family, 57 single-family attached or townhomes, 63 units total for this these two parcels this the Bristow corner is the parcels closest to vent hill road while Bristow crossing was on the other side

[05:09:37] this is again the one parcel that's in between that the applicants been trying to work on to get that to purchase that as part of their project and staff is recommending approval again this is mixed-use three PMR to the north I'm sorry to the west in the east of the property they are proposing a community center here which can serve both my understanding is it'll serve both

[05:10:08] Avondale as well as Bristow crossing and then this is the transportation element again these are the proposed interpersonal connection whoops I'm sorry and you can see it here as well sorry about that and staff is recommending approval of this case as well for similar reasons it's consistent with the mixed-use three the PMR is one of the implementing zoning districts for

[05:10:46] that the development pattern and mix of uses is consistent for what's in the area as well as meets the intent of the bristow activity center and it meets our housing policy number two as well as aligns with the strategic plan goal six and we'll gladly take any questions that the board may have for me or the applicant all right thank you so very much we have supervisor gordy thank you alex and uh thank you mr sherman um just kind of go a little bit of the overview

[05:11:22] of the parcel let's kind of talk a little bit about the start with the stormwater management Because we do have concerns about downstream effects across the road from New Bristow Village. Can you talk about how you are addressing the stormwater management coming out of Avondale through this parcel and then over to New Bristow Village?

[05:11:51] Thank you for the question. We appreciate that because if you look at the stormwater management situation in Avondale right now, When they designed that, they concentrated the flows and they created a stream into this property that didn't exist before that property developed.

[05:12:08] What is happening with this development, because it will develop under the new 2016 Department of Environmental Quality Standards, It will have substantially more stormwater management requirement and best management practices requirements than properties that developed before 2016 or had their plans approved before 2016.

[05:12:30] So what is happening is, is the stormwater from this site is being captured, including the water running from the yards, and being retained on the property in this stormwater management pond and also in an underground facility over at this end of the property.

[05:12:46] And so that those, the nutrients from that runoff will be captured, percolate out of the water and into the soil. And also so that the groundwater will be recharged with the stormwater runoff. It will not be allowed to free flow off of the property.

[05:13:04] It will be contained and will be managed. And the discharge should be the same as it is today or better. Okay, thank you. In terms of the, I've lost my question here that I was going to ask you.

[05:13:23] Let's talk about the walkability. Oh, no, I was going to, affordable housing. That was in either one of your briefs. Can you speak to what's going on to meet the affordable housing requirements? Yes, sir. The county has adopted a policy with the comprehensive plan update that encourages developers to include 10% of the homes that are being constructed for workforce housing.

[05:13:46] And in this community, we have 5% that are up to 80% area median income, and then another 5% that will be between 80% and 120% of the area median income. We use those area median incomes because those are what are considered workforce housing units.

[05:14:07] And so that is the applicant's contribution, if you will, to providing affordable homes within this community. and these are an intermix they're not like set off in into one because of the topography of the prop of the property it was difficult to uh to mix them all up in the center of this project so they distributed them at each end so there are workforce houses at this end and this end in bristow crossing these yellow units are the yellow highlighted units are those units they will have the same architectural treatment on the exterior you will not be able to tell the difference from

[05:14:46] from the street when you view the property. And over in this community, because the topography is slightly different, they were able to mix the affordable units right into the blocks of townhouses. And you can see the units in these two rows here. And so they are integrated in that fashion, a little differently between the two projects, but still integrated. Okay. And I do want to thank you. You know, Noakesville Road is a busy road. We do have a bike path on the other side of noakesville road um and so you know in in vdot is requiring you to put a sidewalk

[05:15:24] right next to the road that's right so i appreciate the uh the developer going above and beyond and adding another creating the buffer and then putting a safe walking trail away from the traffic on the other side of the buffer um and providing that as as not just a place to walk but also a to exercise and um and then but part of the walkability is to get over to bristow center can you speak to a little bit of the challenges that you're having into addressing once you get across the street in terms of getting that connectivity that i think a lot of people are

[05:16:01] trying to that they're looking for yes sir uh over over the years the county has been perhaps less interested or less concerned about walkability and this was an area where At one point in time, actually, if you don't know this, VDOT did not allow you to put a sidewalk on both sides of the road.

[05:16:20] If a development came in, you were only allowed to put sidewalk on one side of the road. Over the years, it's gotten better. And so with this design, this parcel right here was specifically purchased so that they could provide a connection to Fitzgerald Way that would feed in, if you will, to the driveway that already exists and goes into the Bristow Center shopping area.

[05:16:44] The difficulty, however, is that once you get into the shopping center, the sidewalks aren't there. And so the applicant has contacted the owner of this shopping center. They have a relationship through other dealings.

[05:17:01] And so they are working with that owner to try to improve that situation, provide some opportunities to walk to the front of the stores. This is very steep coming up this area right now. but the applicant is bringing a sidewalk all the way to the street.

[05:17:18] He's providing sidewalk across the frontage that he has in these two areas and constructing a crosswalk to get over to the center, and there are some additional discussions that are necessary to make it a little better walk to get up to the front of the stores.

[05:17:36] Madam Chair, I'll pause there for others. I've asked three questions. I'll let my fellow board members ask other questions. Next up, we have Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me start off by saying what interests me so much about this project is that it is very compatible, very compatible with the CIP.

[05:17:58] And so it's a good project. I have several questions. One is we talked about the church that's on the property. And one of the questions that I have is, is it a historical site or is it just a church that people attend?

[05:18:17] And I ask that because of cemeteries and things like that that we've been visiting over the past four years, and I want to make sure that we're preserving and taking care of that. A phase one archaeological study was prepared for the site before the application was submitted, and so the site was reviewed for cemetery locations and artifacts.

[05:18:38] To my knowledge, there is not anything that's been identified on the existing church property as being historical, although I know their history is very important to them. Yes. And so I don't want to say that it's not historical. They're very proud of their time in this location and have been at this location for quite a while.

[05:18:56] So they're okay with everything that's coming? You've had those discussions? Yes, ma'am. Okay. The other thing that I had was you used the terminology workforce housing. Yes. And I just want to make sure, Tom, you know where I'm going with this. We had a presentation earlier today, and we were talking about affordable housing.

[05:19:16] One of the questions I ask is, what's the descriptor? So if you could just workforce housing, just give us a brief explanation to that. Because with the mixed use and this being such a great project, we need to identify that as we're going along. Just indulge me with that, please, Sherman, and tell me what that means.

[05:19:35] So in the 80% AMI in Prince William County, that would be individuals that are making a little over $80,000. So that's a pretty good income. This is not some of the other levels of assistance that is being offered by the county and by the state.

[05:19:54] This is truly the workforce housing, and the overstated need for workforce housing is for teachers, young police officers, new police officers, firefighters, first responders. But I would add that sometimes planners need all sorts of government employees.

[05:20:14] Planners, yeah. Lots of us need them. Managers for Harris Teeter, you know, there are many, many people that we became very dependent on, became very aware of our dependence on during the pandemic, that we want to have housing in the county where they can live so that they're not having to commute to come and help us.

[05:20:34] So this will help us satisfy that need? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And then the other thing I had was the Catawba tree. Thank you, Tom. Native Virginian tree. And that's something that some of our residents have come in and talked to us about and preserving.

[05:20:50] So that's a plus as well. And sidewalks. Sidewalks are important. And so that concept that is compatible with the CIP is very important, very important, the sidewalks, because we have communities that were built before we came to the board that don't have sidewalks.

[05:21:10] That decision-making is based upon what? Adding the sidewalks to our new communities. Yes. So this has sidewalks along all of the interior private streets, and it also has a trail system, a park trail system that goes around the property so that if you want to circumnavigate the property to get just for an evening walk, that's available too, as well as we already talked about the connection over to the Harris Teeter.

[05:21:42] So this is a very walkable design. with bicycles. Then the last thing I have is acknowledging the shared concern with the older community. I think that's important in terms of the success of the project and making sure that they were integrated in the decision-making process. And so that's all I got. I'll be supporting it, Tom. I think it's a great project. Next we have Supervisor Ware. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not sure who to address this to, but with respect to the connections between the two across that parcel that is not owned?

[05:22:19] Has that already been negotiated, or is that going to require condemnation? Madam Chairman, that would not require a condemnation. The applicant has attempted to purchase this property so that it could be developed along with the rest of the assemblage.

[05:22:37] The property owner is very correct in saying he's not interested in selling, and so he has not sold it. So what we did was we integrated the design so that whenever And if he ever determines that he wants to develop the property, that there would be interparcel connections already in place ready for him.

[05:22:57] So these are available when and if he develops his property, and there are connections down here as well that are available. So we've planned ahead to integrate with his property. So at present there is no connection between the two, so how would you access the clubhouse from either Avondale or the larger project if that property owner decides he doesn't want you crossing his property?

[05:23:25] It is a, you would have to go to the public right-of-way along the frontage of the property, both in the case of Avondale and also for Bristow Crossing. So you could go to the clubhouse by walking there. It's not that far. Or you could drive.

[05:23:46] I'm going to follow up on the affordable housing as well. What are the terms of the affordability or ADUs in terms of availability? What period of time? There is a clause in the proffers that talks about a six-month marketing period for the ADU, and I know that that was something that you had asked us about previously.

[05:24:09] The reason that there's a six-month marketing period is because there are a lot of complicating factors after the house is built that you don't want to keep it empty. It causes problems for the neighborhood. It causes problems for the immediate residents that are next door.

[05:24:26] There are extreme costs associated with building a house and then having it empty. And also, it raises a question with the warranties for all of the appliances, including the furnaces and the other air conditioning that's in the buildings.

[05:24:46] So the marketing period of six months should be ample if we are able to get our housing program up and running the way that we think that it will operate. extending it further than that causes a very significant financial burden on the developer.

[05:25:05] I would simply note that that is a set of complications that don't seem to apply to anybody else that's come before us. And, you know, if the ADUs cease to be ADUs after six months and you're going to do them at market price, then even if you're clawing back a portion of that and giving it to the county, you're only giving us a percentage of an ADU that was actually proffered.

[05:25:34] I'm not in favor of it. I've got a variety of applications in the Gainesville District where they are doing straight ADU offerings. Nobody's ever mentioned the complications. I would argue the opposite is also true. It's awful hard to get a loan on a house that's not built yet.

[05:25:52] If you're in that in that section of the AMI so I'm not I'm not comfortable with the current language and I'll leave it at that Madam Chair. Thank you Supervisor Vega. Thank you Madam Chair. Hello Sherman. How are you? Good. Let's talk about the schools for a little bit because I know there was some concern about where the children in this new community would be attending. Have we reached an agreement with the school board as to zoning?

[05:26:22] there is discussion ongoing with the school board right now if you look at the the map for the school districts you have this property in the noakesville school district and this property currently is vacant there there are no residents no students that are going to the noakesville school from this location and the noakesville school is over capacity the avondale is also going to the Noakesville school. However, New Bristow Village is going to Cedar Point and Cedar

[05:26:56] Point is below capacity. And so you have residents that leave parts of Adondale and drive past the site to go to Noakesville while residents from parts of New Bristow Village are turning north on Route 28 and going to Cedar Point and they're passing each other on the highway. So this property right now is is like a peninsula uh within the uh school district map and we think that it would be a very simple matter to include it with the other school district but the applicant

[05:27:32] um is is also doing um you know making its its effort to to contribute to um those school impacts in the way possible if i could just highlight that the noakesville school my children attended the noxville school it's a k-8 school so it's both an elementary and a middle school one building um so you talk about the overcrowding issue it is a concern of mine personally and i know that it's one of yours and your school board representative as well which is why i ask right um and then you have brentsville high school which is where my children are at now um and the same issue remains right what are we going to do in order to alleviate overcrowding

[05:28:11] concerns that we've been having for quite some time and so it does pose a challenge and i'm just curious tom i see your light on if you have anything else you want to add yeah um so this is you know the interesting the interesting thing about the nokesville school and brentsville high school is the zoning for that the boundaries for that were pretty much the rural area and as over time as developments have come through linton hall and as they come up um uh from the south as or from the east as well you know they they would either the school system would either carve out those developments and zone them to another school away from the noakesville school in brinsville

[05:28:50] or they would leave them where they are we're in a situation where we can't put any more students at the noakesville school it is over capacity i've had a meeting with superintendent mcdade i've had meetings with along with school board member erica tradenik who represents brinsville who incidentally is also my chief of staff um so this is something we talk about all the time and um and so we are talking to the to the uh seeking to have the school board change the

[05:29:27] boundaries for this development to go to cedar point which has over 200 seat capacity has plenty of capacity for this development it's about just getting it right there is capacity in schools in this area but unfortunately everything is on to the noakesville school and we just need to get it right at the school level in order to provide balance amongst our schools in this area and then you also have t clay wood which is just right over there as well so that which also has about 100 seat capacity maybe around 90 seat capacity so within and both those schools by

[05:30:03] the way are closer to this development than the noakesville school is you have to drive twice as far to the noakesville school as you do to cedar point and to t clay wood and right now with all the transportation challenges we have within the school system it would make sense to reduce that drive time in the amount of time that buses need to take kids from this area all the way over but this is something going back to my planning commission days that i have been very vocal about is our planning conversations with the school are broken and we need to have a more strategic

[05:30:37] partnership with them as it relates because this is just the first development that's proposed in this area there are 4,000 other houses proposed all zoned to the Noakesville school we got a problem so this is where we this is where we have to fix it we have to start here and so I'm having the conversations having good conversations with our school superintendent with our school board and i'm i believe uh we're going to see uh the school board take a look at this and i mean we're

[05:31:14] talking about at least two two and a half years before we see any houses here built that we can get this fixed in the meantime um so uh we will continue to work this process this is a number one priority for me um as it relates to um what's happening in our area is to get the schools right we have the capacity we just got to get away from that oaksville school which is the overcapacity school so i'm going to tag on to what supervisor gordy said then i'll go back to you for the rest of your questions thank you for your patience supervisor vega maybe about a week or two after supervisor gordy met with the superintendent i also had a chance to speak with her because

[05:31:53] we have an issue with overcrowding in our schools and it's something that the school board has to fix it's not something that we can weigh in on i would like to say she's very aware of that She is committed to working with the school board members about how the attendance boundaries, about redrawing the attendance boundaries, so that we're not running into a situation when you have the Knoxville school, which is overcrowded, but you have two other schools closer to our development.

[05:32:18] So that is something that I've discussed with her, and I've committed with her to doing quarterly meetings, but also looking at what our needs are. A lot of people get anxious about new development because they're worried about schools. they're worried about overcrowding and so you know we are she is going to start looking at maybe perhaps creating a forecast to kind of take into consideration new development and what may be needed this is not putting it formally into the cip process because they're not there yet you know with just simply applications but this is something that she's very well aware of and i just wanted to mention it because again as a parent myself i know that's where a lot of people have

[05:32:57] anxiety with new development how is it going to affect our schools so I'm glad that you had a conversation with her I had a great conversation and this will be ongoing so thank you for your patience supervisor you may continue thank you madam chair uh staying still on topic with schools what have you all offered or done in order to offset um the burden to the school division

[05:33:19] we proffered a monetary contribution um and I'm going to the proffer too so the um the monetary contribution was $17.50 per single-family dwelling detached and $967 per single-family attached. So $9.65 or $9.67 for townhomes. So I'm not that great with math, Sherman. What's

[05:33:51] that in total? I'm not either. I'm a planner. Is it roughly $200,000? Yeah? Yes. Okay. We're going to need a lot more than that in order to try to mitigate the burden that this project will cause to this area especially since we're kind of in limbo as to where we're going to place these students so just wanted to put that out there a little bit of perspective for all of us sitting here in the dais as we continue to talk about this project do you have a price range for the

[05:34:24] townhouse model along with the single family model it's hard to talk about price point at this stage because of the changes in the market and changes in interest rates. So I can, do you want to venture?

[05:34:45] Good evening, Saif Rahman, JR Real Estate. So Supervisor Vega, I mean, we project something out, but of course this is still probably three years out before these houses are built. But in terms of the pro forma modeling, we think single family detached homes are on the $900,000 level.

[05:35:03] And then the townhomes will range from $300,000 all the way up through $600,000, $600,000 plus. So we have probably four to five different price points in this community. The 80% units will probably be closer to the $300,000 number.

[05:35:19] The 120% units will probably be closer to $400,000. And then the full-size townhouses, so the 22s and 24s, which are the market rate townhouses, those are going to be probably in the fives and sixes. When you essentially option it out, may get up into the upper sixes.

[05:35:36] So there's a big sort of mix of different prices throughout the community. Thank you. And I think it's an important question since we were just briefed on our affordable housing goals and projections. And so I sit here kind of asking myself, how do we know then that it's affordable?

[05:35:52] Or how do we even get there? How do we land, right? And that's quite the challenge because it's like we're being asked to produce something when we're really not quite sure what it is that we're doing. So I have a few more, but I'm going to hold off for later and pass it on to somebody else.

[05:36:09] Thank you. Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. I see you said Bodie and not Bordie this time. I appreciate that. I only did it once, 1.5 times. To go back to the ADU conversation for just a second, we talked about the six months that are going to be marketed.

[05:36:27] Can you talk about the deed restriction period on it? Yes, sir. the deed restriction period is 10 years and so after the initial sale into the adu market if you will then the home would be subject to covenants that would require that if it's resold within a 10-year period that it would also be subject to those ami standards that i mentioned before appreciate that and my last question for right now madam chair is um talking through the transportation piece because i know a lot of discussion was made about the crosswalk around across Fitzgerald Way, I believe it's called.

[05:37:04] Looking at traffic analysis, is that just having that crosswalk there, is that enough? Did transportation recommend any other traffic calming or anything like that, or did that suffice for what we have right now? In order to build a crosswalk, you need to get a crosswalk study approved by VDOT.

[05:37:24] And so at the time of that study, they will look into the issue that I think that you're asking about, which is, you know, is there a lot of traffic volume there? Is there adequate site distances? So they will be reviewing for all of those standards. I will tell you that the traffic volume on Fitzgerald Way is not very high, and so we do not anticipate there being any special needs for that crosswalk.

[05:37:48] Thank you. All right, Supervisor Angry. Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I have more of a comment, so maybe I can get down to that comment. But really quick, and I may have missed this. Is there some green space in this project, like a park or do you do anything?

[05:38:03] I know it's a smaller piece, but you sound like we're talking about some sidewalk access, getting to a clubhouse, crossing the road. I was curious, and I think you got some more. This right here, that piece right down there with the tennis court. Is this you? That's not you, is it? Yeah, so this multi-use court is a proffered item for it.

[05:38:25] This is the gathering area, also proffered, with a large pavilion associated with it. Then you have the active park back here in the community and a leisure park further back into the community. And then there's a linear park along Route 28 as well.

[05:38:43] So there's a lot of park area open space. There's 34% open space in the project. That's a better way of me asking the question, 34% open space. All right. Thanks. Supervisor Vega, did you want to ask your question?

[05:39:01] Yeah, just real quick. This is probably for staff. Do we have a letter or an opinion at all from the school division as to their position on this project? I know that in past times they have given their opinion. Yes, they did provide an impact statement, which I believe is in the school section of the staff analysis.

[05:39:23] And they do show that the school board is opposed to any applications that put additional capacity on facilities that are over capacity. And in this case, as was mentioned earlier, the Noakesville School, the elementary and middle school is over capacity.

[05:39:45] Brunsville District High School, there is existing capacity until 2032 is when they exceed that capacity. Thank you, Alex. All right. I don't know if we have any more questions.

[05:40:01] Do you have anything else you want to say before we go into the public hearing? Yeah. Just a couple other questions. so when we first started this um there was commercial at bristow corner um and and so there this has migrated from a true mixed use with commercial to mixed use without commercial can you speak to what happened um and why the commercial was removed the uh there was a there's an issue with accessing the corner parcel because of its proximity to the intersection with vent hill

[05:40:34] Road. The same property owner that is not developing his property at this time was also needed to provide, part of his property was needed to provide turn lanes into the site. And so there were access constraints. There was also a lot of community pushback on having commercial on that corner. So the applicant responded largely because of the community impact and VDOT was you know the transportation issue was a factor but more than anything is the community did not want to see commercial on that corner and so they adapted. Supervisor Gordy

[05:41:13] I actually appreciate the question because when we started this project it was all commercial on that corner and that was the intent but trying to meet VDOT restrictions in terms of turn lanes and and access into a site on a what needs what should be a commercial corner just wasn't possible So we had several different commercial users that were lined up to be there.

[05:41:36] And unfortunately, just because of the spacing for a turn lane and having enough frontage on Noakesville Road because of the adjacent owner not willing to sell that frontage and the county not willing to condemn, which is understandable, you know, obviously.

[05:41:56] So we ended up shifting strategy. And then we heard from the New Bristow Village community also that they would prefer to see a different project here. So we listened to the community and shifted track. Why don't you go ahead and stay there for a minute. So you've had quite a few meetings with Avondale, with New Bristow Village and the community.

[05:42:16] And particularly as it relates to Avondale, you've had to make some adjustments to the plan. And even, you know, coming out of the Planning Commission hearing, you took steps to mitigate some of the concerns from Avondale. Could you kind of walk through some of those last-minute changes that you've made to address their concerns?

[05:42:35] Sure. So we received a few. So what we did when we started the project is we reached out to all the neighboring communities. We've had four meetings, I believe, with Avondale, the Avondale community at different stages. The last meeting we had was we heard from a couple of the owners that are nearby.

[05:42:52] So if you sort of look at the white block that's at the edge, that's Miss Akdas, and she asked us, she was concerned about the dog park because she has some issues with her kids being afraid of dogs.

[05:43:07] So what we committed to her is we would put a board-on-board fence on the backside in order to mitigate. We told her that she's a little over 250 feet away from the dog park, but it was still a concern for her. So we met with her, spent some time, and this was sort of the resolution that we came to.

[05:43:24] We also met with Mr. Zadie, who happens to be, let me see if I can get a better, so I'm trying to bring up the map, is there a way to see all the slides?

[05:43:48] So Mr. Zadie, Mr. Zadie's house is the corner house that's, if you can go up to the one that shows both right there, Alex, thank you. So Mr. Zadie's house is the corner house right before the cul-de-sac, and when they essentially built a stormwater facility they cleared all the trees back there so he has no sort of screening so after meeting with mr zady after meeting with the board of the hoa also we got their permission to plant 12 large cedars native essentially to create some screening for him so they would be

[05:44:22] essentially backing his lot where the cul-de-sac is all the way to the back of the first lot on our property and that creates some screening for him we've also talked with them because their concern was about parking we added probably 15 or 20 additional parking spots towards this side of the development to make sure that none of that is sort of you know going up towards their their community and then we've committed to them to put four-way stops to do some traffic calming essentially on our side which are the private streets and work with VDOT to put no parking signs in the cul-de-sac area to sort of not have folks go into their community. So those are just

[05:45:00] some of the things. Then the clubhouse itself came out of our meetings with the community. When we spoke with Avondale, Avondale told us that they've got no sort of meeting place that the community can get together and meet at. So when we were discussing sort of the project, what we decided on the corner piece was to put a clubhouse and then proffer that that clubhouse, as well as the other amenities on this site, would be available to all three communities.

[05:45:24] So the Avondale community will be able to use the clubhouse that is there, and we've provided ample parking just specifically for the clubhouse in case people from the farther side of Avondale need to drive there. So they're just some of the meetings we've had. Okay, and the one of the traffic calming measure was talking about potential for some speed humps or something like that ahead of the, you know, on the other side of the cul-de-sac leading into the neighborhood.

[05:45:47] Is that still being discussed? It could be on the private side of the street because the only way we can do speed humps on the VDOT right-of-way is after they go through a traffic study, which is very difficult to do. It takes some time, and they wouldn't do it until the cul-de-sac is built because then they have to see the traffic walking through.

[05:46:05] So we have the ability to put a speed hump on our side, which is the private part right after the cul-de-sac. That is something we are willing to do, and we've said that to the community. okay um the um the other issue is when we first started this there were townhouses all along the back row uh aligning up to um to avondale so thank you for for uh trying to provide almost a one-for-one to provide better um linkage to avondale uh that did reduce your density down and appreciate you doing that and then also uh thank you for protecting the uh katalpa tree which

[05:46:42] also took out some units too. It's a beautiful tree. It's a very old, beautiful tree. But can you speak to a little bit of what's on these parcels now in terms of the current structures and kind of the state of what's there now? Sure. So the only real structure that's usable right now is probably the church building and then there is a house that belonged to roxana simpson it's an older house that's there the church has a really old rundown house and then there are some really

[05:47:19] old houses on the corner so it's not i mean they would have to be essentially torn down and rebuilt uh the the there are no specimen trees uh along the site this is all of sort of like brush that grown up and then just typical trees that when a site is left for a while. So essentially what we're doing is we are working with the church to figure out what we worked with them to figure out what their needs were and they said that they needed to connect to public water and sewer so we've committed to connect them to public water and sewer. They don't have a parking lot right now

[05:47:54] so we are committing to put a parking lot in for them that meets county requirements to do so as part of our agreement with them. And then, you know, the rest of the site on the corner, the house that's the corner piece, we had approached that gentleman to purchase that piece when we were working on the project. He was not willing to sell, which is his right. It's his property.

[05:48:16] So Commissioner Carroll talked about trying to create some additional screening there. So what we've done is we've actually, since the Planning Commission, we've added a board-on-board fence. We've added additional plantings in order to create screening from the gathering area. And we've also committed to increase the plantings along the frontage of nooksville road to sort of create a nice screened area there yeah thank you for doing that that there's a lot of a best way to call us outdoor storage there so it'll certainly improve the view madam chair that's all i have for now thank you all right thank you so much we are going to move on to the public hearing what

[05:48:55] we're going to do is we're going to do the public hearing and then we're going to if there's any further discussion among the board we can do it during our discussion period so madam chair point of order uh with this since both cases have been presented will we do both cases all at once i'm doing both cases all at once okay so we're going to open the public hearing for 13a and 13b right now i have two people signed up to speak actually one person wants to speak on both you have three minutes for the person who wants to speak on both um you will get a combined six minutes um so first

[05:49:30] I have Josh Fielder, then Henry Hama, then Amy Coles. So if you guys can all make your way to the mic, I would greatly appreciate that. And when you speak, please state your name and your magistrate district or where you generally reside.

[05:49:51] Yeah, it's Josh Fielder, and I'm in Brentsville district. I'm in the Brentsville district. Is that camera working or no? Yes, the projector is working. Oh, okay, because I have a few things I would like to point out about the application that are inaccurate that were actually mentioned by the Brentsville Planning Commissioner.

[05:50:10] So you want to connect your computer? No, I just want to show the camera. You just want to show the camera? Okay. Yeah. You can set it, I believe, if you set your phone down or is it your computer? Yeah. You might want to turn it on the side if it can, yeah.

[05:50:30] These trees that are listed on that presentation, and the Brentsville Planning Commissioner actually pointed out that trees are not there. it's like two houses that were built and there's like a basically like a junkyard like where they just have a bunch of like spare parts with cars and stuff and that was something that's pointed out almost a month ago and they didn't bother to actually update that for this presentation so I feel like it's something that needs to be pointed out that it kind of makes it appear that there's trees there that aren't actually there and they've had almost a month to update that one image and

[05:51:07] they didn't do it. So just in terms of this application, I do support building more houses and expanding housing supply, but I think this application in particular, there are a few deficiencies that they did not address in terms of the environmental goals. The planning commission decided that it didn't meet the environmental goals, and they're basically clear-cutting the entire lot. I mean, they couldn't even bother to preserve, like, maybe two acres of trees or

[05:51:41] something. So I just think that it's not an environmentally sustainable development. And I think there's also just the outstanding issue of schools that I feel like has not been adequately addressed for this development, and it's going to become more of an issue in the future.

[05:52:00] If you're just looking at the school projections from the Planning Commission report, Basically, that excess capacity that they have for those nearby schools will be completely consumed by just the Nooksville Elementary School is going to have 380 excess students, including this application, by 2032.

[05:52:25] So both of those schools are also going to be at capacity. And this does not even include all of the other, you know, outstanding planning cases. if you're just looking at the stuff in the school attendance zone for the Brentsville District High School and the Noakesville School, I mean, that's adding 478 students. So, I mean, technically there is excess capacity right now, but we're going to be over capacity for all of the nearby schools within the next few years. And this application is really accelerating our need for very expensive

[05:53:03] upgrades to school infrastructure that we don't currently have and we don't have a plan to put a school in the linton hall area so i mean if you include that in consideration with the projected i mean density that we're adding with the previous comp plan changes we're really putting ourselves in a situation that um we're going to have to spend you know probably a billion dollars on building new schools from the additional few thousand students that we're adding in the next 10 years. Thank you. So I'm opposed to both the Bristow Crossing and the Bristow Corner application because of those issues with

[05:53:43] schools and environmental concerns. Thank you. Thank you. Next I have Henry Hama. Good evening. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to, I just wanted to, basically I had the same question to say that if we are talking about, you know, expansion in the community, it's probably best to start looking at the school solution now rather than, you know, to look at it two years from now.

[05:54:15] Because it's just, I know it's going to be very challenging, you know, just to accommodate a lot of new students in those schools that are already at overcapacity. So you just covered everything that I was going to address. That's all I have.

[05:54:31] Thank you. Thank you. And next we have Amy Knowles. Kohl's. Sorry, Kohl's. So at the previous hearing with the Planning Commission, it was approved for the zoning for the two lots with some conditions.

[05:54:51] And one of the conditions was that they would work with the Avondale community on our concerns with the parking and the trees. So their current plan is to completely clear-cut everything, all of the trees.

[05:55:07] Their pretty little picture up there that has all the trees on it are not there. It looks nice, but it's not there. there's houses there that they just built. So there's also like lots of wildlife that live in there. There's deer, there's squirrels, there's birds, there's bats. Did you know that bats are federally protected? You can't move them, you can't destroy their habitat at all. Have there been a study yet to find out if those bats are the ones that are protected or not? Sorry, I lost my

[05:55:41] play. They did have the meetings with us. There was only three meetings with the Avondale community. one was a week after the planning commission meeting. They told us what we wanted to hear, what they thought we wanted to hear by one person said we wanted the community building.

[05:56:01] Like nobody else did, just the one. They said that they would send us the plans that have the parking and the more trees and stuff. I never saw them. I guess they were sent last week, late last week.

[05:56:18] Not enough time to send them out to the community, not enough time to look them over. So I thought that, like, you know, we were supposed to be the Royal Crescent, so now are we going to be the urban moon?

[05:56:34] Like, we're just going to cut down all the trees everywhere? Thank you. Thank you, and did you have, because I'm going to continue. If anyone else would like to speak during the public hearing, please make your way to the microphone. Three Cements, Potomac District.

[05:56:52] I hope you're really listening to the first three speakers, their concerns about this development, because their concerns really got my attention. And it seems like their questions have not been answered. I hate to rain on the parade of this development, but these people have to endure what happens there in their backyard.

[05:57:20] So thank you for your time. Thank you. Our next speaker. Good evening. I'm Latoya Barner. I am the president of the Avondale HOA. Some of the things that were communicated are correct.

[05:57:37] The developer did, in fact, have about three meetings with us. some of our concerns have been addressed we did uh late last week get update i think it was mid to late last week we did get the updated um pictures with the new parking or the slides with the new parking and all that but we still have a lot of concerns with this i know one of the things that we've been told is that vdot either requires or highly recommends the opening um from the two development from Avondale and then to Bristol crossing Bristol corner I talked

[05:58:14] about them together but we are still awaiting our meeting with with VDOT in order to understand why it's necessary and to see what else can be done potentially so that there's not too much of an impact to our community also you know the situation with the schools have come up a couple times a lot of that is outside of the control of the developer and it's more with the school board we understand that we do appreciate the fact that they are willing to allow us to use their clubhouse again that was not anything that was recommended or

[05:58:54] requested by the board that was a conversation with a homeowner maybe even a few homeowners but overwhelmingly the community is not gung-ho about it Because when we purchased in the community, we knew that we didn't have a clubhouse, and we were kind of okay with that.

[05:59:11] So we appreciate that. But there are still some concerns that we think a little more time in order to work with the developer or developer to work with us in order to address would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Thank you.

[05:59:28] If there is no one else, we will close. We have one online person. Ms. Van, shall we call them up, please? Yes, your first speaker is Anand Desai.

[05:59:49] Hi, Anand Desai here, Brentsville District. I live near the proposed Bristow Crossing and Bristow Plaza developments, and I urge you to oppose them and consider the broader issues they reflect. I'm concerned that these developments of mostly blocks of townhouses are an awkwardly placed downturn for the area.

[06:00:07] They're far away from big offices and businesses and public parks to walk to where density can be a benefit, being at most second best for even their buyers in the long run, even if most lucrative for the developer up front. Now, the perception that there would be demands for blocks of townhouses back into alleys out in the sticks reflects very poorly on the county and city governments and the schools they tie us to in the more practical places.

[06:00:28] On the other hand, you know, give us vouchers, you save millions, the kids excel, and everyone wins. These developments will add traffic, clutter, including turning Nooksville Road into a concrete canyon, and, as planning acknowledges, worsens school crowding, for which there's proper $1,700 each for schools as a meaningless pittance.

[06:00:46] And they'll set a downward trend not only for the appeal of the area, but also the public contributions expected of developers. The battlefield park setup of New Presto Village is very nice, whereas the new developments are unfair both to the sellers and residents who had to subsidize that, as well as the amenities the new folks will likely go to, as well as to the surrounding county.

[06:01:06] The greenery in the applicant's pictures is mostly other properties, and its active play park for hundreds of people is a few times the size of a volleyball court. Finally, the hit to the wider area of property values, and even tax collections, might outweigh receipts from these developments.

[06:01:22] In light of all this, and a broader trend of more taxes for less value and less respect, rubbed in by hideous data centers, I'm inclined to maintain but not improve my home, and not consider another here, and I doubt I'm alone. So, I was surprised to see that planning supported them, and as far as I can tell, quite uncritically.

[06:01:41] I think they need to go back to the drawing board for less density. Land isn't that big a fraction of total cost out here. This seems more about bringing the last dollar out of an accommodating board and more appealing greenery and usable open space and also more profits if possible. Also, I recall that several years ago, Prince William County wanted new developments to be tax positive in the sense of adding more tax revenue than they tended to consume.

[06:02:04] Still a prudent policy in broad sense, but I saw nothing about the overall impact. Finally, I was concerned that the reports mention and the speaker mentions community meetings like for bristow plaza page five on the report but they don't appear to reflect the substance of those meetings and therefore that defeats defeats the purpose at a meeting with new bristow village about the area now proposed to be the bristow crossing townhouses the promoters presented plans for gas station-based commercial development which he initially misdescribed as involving a restaurant more like a snack counter then he said something like fine may as well do townhouses

[06:02:40] yeah ladies and gentlemen of the board we can expect better people who do business on their county uh you know turn it into some nice houses some town some townhomes townhomes are very reasonable option i used to live in one and but they they need open space out to to enjoy out here in the country and um be accommodating neighbors thank you thank you mr desai are there any other remote public speakers on this case or these two cases there are no more public speakers right now

[06:03:19] all right thank you miss van back to you madam chair all right thank you so very much i am going to close the um well actually before i close the public hearing i would like to ask the applicant mr patrick sherman i'm sure and patrick if you'd like to come up because there were some questions raised um i don't know if you're able to capture them but if you're able to quickly address them Please turn on the microphone, sorry.

[06:03:46] Okay, I was keeping a list of the questions. And a lot of them had to do with two things, the environmental impact or the environment of the property and schools. Schools, let me start with that.

[06:04:03] As you all know. I apologize before you go on because there's some conversation about whether or not we should close the public hearing before you address. So I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing. As per our county attorney, I apologize. Okay. So the public hearing is now closed.

[06:04:18] We didn't have any additional people going into the microphone or indicating online. So thank you for your patience. We'll go back to you. Thank you. So as you know, the local governments are constrained with respect to the types of monetary contributions that they can accept.

[06:04:37] We have used a well-known consultant in this area who has helped us. He worked very hard, helped to find a way to provide some monetary contributions for schools. And the issue has to do with how funding is set up, specifically the CIP for school improvements in this area.

[06:05:00] And if we were to offer something different that we can't justify, I think that we would be in a predicament possibly where the county attorney would suggest that our proffer was improper and that you should not accept it. And so what we did was we had a consultant that prepared a justification for the proffered monetary amounts that are in the conditions, and that was founded based on the county CIP and logic as to a rational nexus between those monetary contributions and what we're allowed to provide.

[06:05:35] So there is the schools issue that was talked about at length among the board members. There is school capacity. There is future school need that will need to be addressed even in better detail in the future going forward than has been in the past. But it doesn't start with this development.

[06:05:51] It doesn't end with this development. It is an ongoing process, and it really rests with the school board, as several of you have said. With respect to community meetings, we have five dates that we reached out to the Avondale community and have spoken with folks from that community.

[06:06:16] I don't know about turnover. I don't know who attends which meetings, who may have been to the first meeting but not the second, or went to the second but not the first. But we have the dates of our outreach to the community, and we think that we have been as effective as we can be with respect to answering their questions.

[06:06:37] And then with respect to the environmental comment, the board went through a very lengthy process of updating the comprehensive plan, and there was a conclusion that Prince William County needed to provide a greater share of affordable dwellings, that they needed to provide a greater share of housing in the Washington metropolitan area.

[06:07:01] And also, we see it every day in our own communities and in our own families that people cannot afford to purchase homes here. And part of that is because of the availability and reduced inventory. And so what the outcome of that was, was the board said, OK, a more practical and logical way to develop is by creating activity centers and providing for walkable communities that are surrounding these activity centers.

[06:07:36] We are in an area that is identified as an activity center. It is an area that was identified as needing to have a walkable community. And with walkable communities comes density. When you're providing density, there is a direct correlation with the amount of open space and with clearing and grading.

[06:07:59] In order to develop a site, you have to have maximum and minimum grades on your streets, and if you are not achieving those grades, then you need to modify the site to make it work.

[06:08:14] And so, you heard already from the staff presentation that we're in the middle of the density that's recommended for this property the only way that we could be stay in the middle of this in and be consistent with the comprehensive plan would be to do taller buildings to do mixed-use buildings to not mixed-use but to do more like two over twos or something like that it would require greater height and I don't think that would be correct for this community I think that what we've designed here is taking into account the desire for transitions is taking

[06:08:52] into account the desire by the county to have walkable communities and we've done a pretty good job I believe in terms of the amenities this is somewhat unique in all the cases that I've done with respect to its amenities and the components that the applicant has been willing to address in this application thank you for your comments so what we're gonna do now is I am we're going

[06:09:22] to, I would like to accept a motion on items 13A, we're going to do 13A, 13B together, I'll do a motion, we'll have a second, and we'll have the discussion on both of these at the same time, so I'd like to entertain a motion for 13A, or I'm sorry, Supervisor Vega has one more question.

[06:09:44] Yeah, just, Sherman, if you could come back, I want to address, because I had that question before I handed the mic over, and I know one of the speakers raised it, will the trees on the image looking south from Fitzwater way are those going to be replicated replanted can we address that question that was asked by one of the speakers in terms of there are no trees there currently but on your drawings there are yeah we we have the we have why don't we just use the one that's

[06:10:23] right here. No, because this is the old one. The one that's updated is right here. I can put it on. Can I use the projector? She can zoom in. It's going to be, yeah, you can try it. We'll see how we can make this work. While he's doing that, let me explain that there are two lots on Fitzwater Drive that were purchased and put under construction during the preparation of the

[06:10:54] rezoning case to bring before forward to you and what is being shown to you now is a needs to go a little further to the left is is showing that those lots have been cleared since our first renderings were prepared for this proposal there's also showing in better detail the outdoor storage that is on the corner lot those sorry Sherman some of my colleagues are asking which lots Why don't you go back there and point to it?

[06:11:29] We have a laser right here that can be used. Supervisor Vega, what's happened since we started, again, say for Haman, JR Real Estate, what's happened since we started is if you look on Fitzgerald Way, there's been two homes that have been built that are up there next to that, behind the row of townhouses, if you see those.

[06:11:51] That corner is the corner that's the outdoor storage yard that Supervisor Gordy referred to. So what we've committed to is we are putting a board-on-board fence, and we've increased the plantings along that fence line area, as well as putting a board-on-board fence back behind those townhouses and increasing the plantings along that area.

[06:12:12] We're also increasing the plantings along the front, so it's going to be significant planting units per linear foot.

[06:12:30] All right. If you'll allow me, which is one other thing that I wanted to make a point about. Someone asked about the transportation connection to Spring Irish Drive. And the way that we have proffered the conditions is that it will allow us to continue the dialogue with VDOT regarding whether or not a connection to Spring Irish Drive is mandated or not.

[06:12:55] We know that interparcel connections are frequently very controversial in a rezoning case, so that when we prepare our proffers, and they're located on page 12 of the proffered conditions, we set out a couple of scenarios because, as I said before, we don't need that connection.

[06:13:13] It's bringing our drive to support the traffic that is within this community. The real request is coming from VDOT. We'll continue to work with the community. This isn't the last dialogue that we'll be having with the Avondale Homeowners Association.

[06:13:33] They will make a commitment to continue that dialogue as the site is being developed. And, again, the conversation with VDOT doesn't end because of your action this evening. We've set up the proffered condition so that it's not mandated by the proffers to have that connection.

[06:13:51] It's solely up to the transportation departments. And that's all that I have unless you have any questions of me. I don't know. If no one else up here has any questions, then we will move forward.

[06:14:07] Thank you so very much for coming up and addressing the concerns that we heard during the public hearings. So we're going to combine 13A and 13B, since they are closely related with one another.

[06:14:24] I'd like to get a motion to move forward. I'm sorry, so you have a quick question? No, I'm going to make the motion. You're going to make the motion. Second. Madam Chair, I move that we approve items 13A and 13B with the following amendment to 13A.

[06:14:47] On the second page of their proper statement under land uses, paragraph 1, subparagraph A, it is to read, Land Bay 1 shall have a maximum of 172 single-family attached dwelling units and a maximum of 15 single-family detached dwelling units permitted on the property within the area's zoned PMR.

[06:15:11] And this is something I worked out with the applicant to clarify the numbers prior to tonight's hearing. Second. All right, discussion. Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[06:15:29] I am going to rather grudgingly defer to Supervisor Gordy on this, but I do have some concerns. I don't like the inconsistency that we're getting from the development community with respect to ADUs. And I think we are going to get far more than most of this board is expecting, excuse me, far less than what this board is expecting that we're going to get from this particular application and applications like that.

[06:15:56] Is that a function of not having an affordable dwelling unit ordinance? Probably. Is it a function of not setting forth policy or standards previously? Probably. But I think it's something that we need to do so that there's some consistency and expectation from not only from the developers on our part, from the community. Second, the schools. I disagree with Mr. Patrick's legal interpretation of the proper language with respect to line items in the CIP. I don't think we are that confined.

[06:16:33] I will have a further discussion with the county attorney about this in the future so that we can have this issue settled before we come to a public hearing. Similarly, I guess I'm just going to have to make a leap of faith that the school division will actually do a boundary line adjustment.

[06:16:49] I would argue it's not just a boundary line adjustment for these particularly impacted schools. I would strongly suggest, and perhaps we should do this as a budget topic when the school board comes and meets with us, that they need to do a county-wide reset of all the boundaries.

[06:17:05] Because the ones they've got now currently do not make sense and are creating circumstances like this and overcrowding situations in other parts of the county as well. third thing is I've seen circumstances like this before where you're proffering an interparcel connection but no actual connection between the two properties across somebody else's properties and I have concerns about the problem that may or may not create in the future I guess it can depend on how they get along with the landowner but it's not something that I'm fond of and then

[06:17:42] last but not least I can sympathize with the with the person who spoke with respect to the representation of that tree covered corner. If anybody pulls up the corner of Noakesville and Fitzgerald on the mapper, they'll see it's far from tree covered. It's quite frankly, I guess the only thing I can really call it for is a call it as a residential junkyard with very little tree cover. But that being said, Supervisor Gordy, I'll defer to your wishes on this one. All right.

[06:18:14] Thank you. Next is Supervisor Angry. Thank you, Madam Chair. I said it before, I'm going to say it again. So unfortunately, this is Groundhog Day, and we're going to be having the same discussion until, and we just had two major presentations today that tie to this, which is our housing ordinance and even our sustainability piece.

[06:18:32] And so I want to say, because we do need to find a standard of how we are doing this on all of our developments. But I think every developer in Prince William County knows that, and we've even had discussions with many of them, including you, Safi, and you've kind of been really leading our efforts in trying to figure this thing out together as a development community and this board.

[06:18:54] It's all new right now. Even though we're two years into many of these positions or creations that we've done, we still don't have anything locked down, and I guarantee this, it's going to come with some change as we learn whatever we put in place. But, you know, and Supervisor Gordy, thank you, because when you talked about the strategic plan of all of these organizations getting together, And we say a lot about the schools, but let me remind you, and I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but as this county develops because of the need for more homes for the overgrowth of the population of people we have, and everybody deserves to have a house, whichever way you want to get it for them, and we'll figure that out.

[06:19:31] But in addition to the school situation, public transportation is critical. Now, we talked a lot about OmniRide. I'd like to know even, not for discussion, but something that we need to add, is even in talking with our armed rights system about, you know, the fact that we're talking about walkable communities and the fact that people should be able to use public transportation and the fact that we're trying to lower greenhouse gas emissions and the fact that we just stood up an entire sustainability commission to literally look at these things, then all of these departments are going to play a role in how we develop.

[06:20:00] But we spend a lot of time talking about the schools. But I will say this about the schools. We know what we have a shortage of in this county, and we know with homes comes families. And so the school board and the whole school system has to find a way to keep up with us. And I don't mean to say that in a negative way, but we can't slow down a train that's already 10 years slow.

[06:20:22] We're behind on the growth of the people of this county, and it's all of the people, all 488,000 or 77,000 or whatever thousand you want to call it. We have an overgrowth of population of people in Prince William County that deserve this opportunity. Last year, I have to say this here, because I have to say it.

[06:20:40] Supervisor Gordy, Tom. So I got some information on that Catawpa tree, and the digital atlas of Virginia says it's non-native to Virginia. So I just want to go out and speak for my native plant lovers of friends.

[06:20:56] You know, they were saying oak is all the stuff that we need. Anyway, I just want to put that out there. So as we talk sustainability, these are those things that are important for us. But I had never heard that tree, so I'm happy to see it. because I've never heard of that tree before, so. All right, thank you, Madam Chair.

[06:21:12] I think we can take a little field trip, you know, maybe just the two of us, you know. Check out that tree. All right, Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a couple of things. I hear folks who are talking about the school's impact. It's something that we desperately need to grapple with as a county, and that's one of the reasons why I proposed us restarting that joint committee on capital a couple of meetings ago, so we can have that better coordination with the school system on where we're going with all this.

[06:21:40] Because, again, I agree. I think that we have not had as close of communication and collaboration with them because we have housing needs. Those housing needs will continue. We talked about ad nauseum earlier today, and we need to grapple with that. I also hear folks that are talking about some of the uncertainty around tree cutting, what have you.

[06:21:59] I will tell you, though, that infill development is hard. We are going to see this all throughout the county, not just in the Brentsville District, but all throughout the county where we have these parcels of land that are islands of themselves surrounded by development, existing communities that have existed there sometimes for decades.

[06:22:16] Now we're coming in trying to fill them with who we believe and we hope to be good neighbors. So we talk about the things that, as Reza Gordy went through with the developer to try to facilitate that, a transition piece, having it so it's not just townhounds backed up to single-family homes.

[06:22:35] We have a logical, seamless transition between more tightly packed homes, a single family home, so it's the homes that exist there. We talk about the fact this is across the street from a Harris Teeter shopping center. You can't get much closer to that when it comes to having a walkable community for the amenities that you need when you talk about what you need for a family.

[06:22:57] We also talk about the fact that we have a comp plan where we're calling for better connections between existing communities and new communities. We're doing that with this as well, where we're having it so, as far as I can see, you're not going to have a community where this is creating pass-through traffic for the existing community.

[06:23:17] It's the other way around, frankly, and people will know that moving into this, so you're not surprising anyone. In fact, this enhances the connectivity so people in Avondale can get better to that shopping center with the Harris Teeter. And the whole fact that we're talking about sharing amenities, this new community versus the old one, talking about making good neighbors.

[06:23:35] At the end of the day, this is infill development. It's always going to be harder than having an empty field somewhere where no one else lives around it. And you talk about having good neighbors and a transition piece here. The ultimate thing we've been talking about this entire time, including earlier today, again, it's been said, activity centers.

[06:23:52] Where are we focusing our development? Where are we focusing, where there's always existing infrastructure, existing amenities, existing connectivity to build a sense of community? If we're going to say no to things in activity centers, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. So frankly, I know there's challenges here.

[06:24:08] I sympathize with the talk about schools. We're working on that at least as much as we can on our end of it. But I'll be supporting this because of all the other things that I said. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. We're going to move on to Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Vic, I don't care if it's not a native tree.

[06:24:25] we preserved it but no i know i know but we preserved it i do care i do care but we preserved and i think that's a good mark for us tom you took the time to observe it and to make sure that it was a part of the community i think that's important i and and the other thing i agree with a lot of what's been said by my colleagues but i also appreciate the residents that came out uh to give their views i think this is a even greater opportunity uh for you to for us all the whole everyone to bond with the developer because it's obvious

[06:25:02] that they've tried to accommodate the community's wishes and preserve some of the things in the community so I just I think I look at this as an opportunity a positive opportunity for more positive conversations as it relates to the community particularly the one about the animals and the I don't like that sorry ma'am but but you know those kinds of things that are in the community i think that the developer just in working with him in the past would be open to what that looks like in terms of

[06:25:38] that kind of preservation which is the reason why i asked about the church because we have to be very careful when we are building that we're looking at everything and our staff does try to look at everything so if it's something that it's missed because it's such a very good project for our comp plan I would ask the developer to bond even more so with those residents to kind of understand what that means because we do have people that don't have homes in this community and it's important that we do provide housing and I look and I didn't say affordable housing because it's important

[06:26:15] again that we define what this housing is this will provide housing for our teachers our firemen you know and that's very very critical as we look at these schools that are overcrowded we don't want them to go outside the county like they're doing now to live outside the county so this is also a positive opportunity for us to to change how we've been dealing with our school board with our and madam chair thank you for your meeting you and tom that's an opportunity for the board members to do so as well some of us have done that already but i think

[06:26:48] it's just a positive opportunity. So I'm just, I wanted to make that comment because it's change and change is hard. Change is very hard and it's hard for our county, but our county is growing and it's growing beyond what we see. So I just wanted to offer that, Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. First off, thank you to the applicant and to county staff for all of their work here, not just tonight, but throughout this process.

[06:27:21] and thank you to the citizens that came out and spoke. I usually don't struggle, and I think that should not come to a surprise to anyone. I either like a project, and I think it's good in its totality, or I don't. However, I'm struggling a little bit with this one because I think that the location of the project is a good location.

[06:27:41] I personally love the amenities that the project is offering, you know, but the issue that I'm having is that I don't know if it's enough to mitigate the concerns that have been raised not just here tonight but but in general I do believe that it adds an additional burden and I would even say pressures that it sets for our sustainability and affordability goals and I don't know that it's enough to get me there but most importantly I do think that the impact statement from our school division does matter I will also go on the record saying that the

[06:28:17] Coles district faces very similar challenges to those in the Brunsville district and I would caution my I wouldn't say caution but just tell my colleagues on the day is to be very alert as to the applications that are coming down the pipeline because they're similar in nature we have a lot of issues and yes I understand these are not issues that were created overnight these are long standing issues but at what point do we as a board say all right let's let's stop for a moment and figure out a solution instead of moving forward with projects that are only making the situation worse we know

[06:28:55] that in order to alleviate overcrowding in our schools we have to build more schools um yes building more schools is extremely expensive right but then because of the already existing pressures and burdens that means that even those new schools are going to be at capacity because of the additional growth that is coming and yes I will I will agree that growth in this county has happened very rapidly and that we have to do our part to accommodate you know with the growth but at the same time we have to be mindful of the ongoing issues and provide real-time solutions to those problems because otherwise somebody said we're just shooting ourselves on the foot you know and putting a band-aid on a problem that should have been addressed a long

[06:29:34] long time ago and so I'm struggling I'm not gonna say how I'm going to vote because i do know that the district supervisor has the final word so um you know just wanted to thank everybody but wanted to highlight the reasons as to why i'm struggling you know again it's a good project to create amenities but at the same time the issues raised by um the public here tonight and uh the school division as well are issues that are going to weigh heavily in my decision and my final decision thank you madam chair supervisor gordy first of all i want to thank for all the citizens who came out and spoke tonight and um i'm your supervisor and let's keep

[06:30:12] in contact as we continue to work for it to work on this project as it continues to move forward um related to the schools um i appreciate the gentleman saying let's not wait two years we've already started the conversation we're not waiting two years um i've been having this conversation going back to when i was on the planning commission i've been saying we've got a problem and right now our problem in this area is not that we don't have capacity it's just we have a zoning problem that's where we are right now we have capacity and it's just up the street a lot of capacity it just needs to be zoned to that school and so it's getting the school board

[06:30:50] to take the action to do that and that's what we're trying to do and so we're we're actively working that conversation in working with the school superintendent school board chair to get this on the docket for the school board to address in an upcoming school board meeting.

[06:31:14] Incidentally, when Avondale was built, they donated land across Vinhill Road for a school, and it's just sitting there because the school wouldn't take the land from the county. So there's land for a school right across the street. So again, this is about having conversations and about looking at what the reality of our totality of our situation is in this area related

[06:31:43] to schools and it's about our school board friends having courage cast the votes to change some boundaries to make sure and as superintendent mcdade shared me chair with me the worst school is the underutilized school because the money the number the the amount of money for a school and I used to be the chairman of the parent advisory council. I know how school budgets work.

[06:32:14] Money follows the kid. If there aren't kids in the school, that school is paying to run heat, run air, run lights, pay for water systems, and they don't have enough money to do that in their budget because they don't have enough kids. So it's actually better if we get more kids in the underutilized schools to make sure that we are maximizing the capacity and capability of that school and not creating more of a cost burden upon our school system and so there there are

[06:32:49] these are complex issues but I'm just going to say it we need the adults to get the room and fix the problem because we and that's really where we are and and and so we have capacity this is not a capacity issue for schools in this area right now it will be coming down the pipe one more development and we can't have this conversation anymore but right now we have the capacity it's about getting these these homes zoned to the school that's closest to them that has plenty

[06:33:24] of capacity if we get that done we will be fine and that's my commitment is to make sure that that happens um and working through with our uh our our school board uh colleagues um and again i think even going to we're even talking about the planning and and trying to get schools in the cip and they're looking at okay uh they are looking at these having these conversations and are going to come back uh with us with uh some concepts and ideas and i'm looking forward to that conversation but it's just started um again i i appreciate everything that's been said um on the affordable

[06:34:02] housing um miss washington could i ask you to come up to the dais so on the affordable housing we had the affordable housing conversation i brought up this proffer statement today um and we recognize that right now we do not have an affordable housing ordinance it is in process and hopefully by august break we will have passed an affordable housing ordinance um do you foresee a more

[06:34:33] consistent path to addressing this issue related to how developers if they're making the investment into an affordable unit that they can be assured that that the the unit will not sit empty costing money which actually creates more of a problem towards affordability and in your experience coming from other jurisdictions can speak into this but do you foresee a more streamlined process where that that will cover this issue going forward i will um

[06:35:13] again tanya washington director of the planning office um i think i'll repeat what i said earlier i think it's really on a there's no i think one set answer that would apply in every situation i think it's a case-by-case basis as I noted earlier there are development projects that you know in this instance this may proffer a certain number of affordable housing units and they are able to accommodate that and can move forward with you know getting the stuff or sold there may be other instances where it may make more sense to make a monetary you know contribution if that's

[06:35:52] possible there are other instances where I mentioned earlier where a project may include affordable dwelling units it's part of it but they may you know once the housing trust fund is set up they may request some funding to help close the financing gap in order to be able to actually cover the cost of providing affordable housing units because the cost the cost of either renting or selling those units will not cover the cost of actually producing those units so So I think it's hard for me to say sort of what a definitive answer is at this point.

[06:36:26] I think it's, you know, again, it's something that is really going to depend on the project because the projects, the circumstances of the projects, the financing, sort of what other components are included in a project can really affect sort of which direction they can go in, even with regards to providing affordable housing units.

[06:36:44] Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I'm hopeful that given sort of the very -- we've got developers coming forward with their affordable housing proffers in making these commitments. And I completely agree with Supervisor Weir, also known as Bob, that there seems to be some inconsistencies in application.

[06:37:09] I am hopeful that the ADU will help us solve this problem in the long term. With that, Madam Chair, I'll turn it back over to you. All right, thank you so very much. This has been a very good and robust discussion. I want to first caution that I don't, let's not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

[06:37:26] We've had a lot of good questions, but nothing that is going to stop me from voting in favor of this project personally. You know, and I do appreciate the developers making an attempt to make affordable, you know, home ownership available as part of this project because we don't have the ADU right now.

[06:37:47] And so I appreciate that you're going ahead and making this a part of the development. But I also want to say, we're talking about homeownership. I want to be very clear. Because some of the comments, you know, people are making, I don't feel are necessarily applicable. You know, people want to buy.

[06:38:07] That is still a part of the American dream. And there was an article in the Washington Post this past weekend, less money, less house. And it's talking about how houses are getting smaller because there's an affordability problem. We have high interest rates. We have high inflation. We have people who traditionally are not turning over their homes, are not downsizing because they have low interest rates and they don't want to forsake that.

[06:38:34] So there is a need for smaller housing. There is a need for townhomes. I started out, my first home that I bought is a townhome. There is nothing wrong with giving people housing choice and helping people get a foothold into homeownership because we know homeownership. We know that's for a lot of people. That's how they build financial security and generational wealth. And I have to name that because I as a single mother came to this county because this is where I can afford to live and raise my family. And I think that other people should be given that same opportunity. So with that, let's take a vote.

[06:39:12] All right. Thank you. We are now going to move on to public hearing for

[06:39:43] item 13c madam chair hold on i have two folks let me see um franklin and then where madam chair before the board holds the public hearing and votes on agenda item 13c involving the route 29 commercial center i would like to make a voluntary disclosure gift hampshire represents a residential community which is located near the application site and is interested in this application mr hampshire is my legal counsel in a separate matter i have consulted with the county attorney's office and they have advised me that I am not prohibited from participating in this matter

[06:40:19] and I am not required to make a declaration before I participate in it. However, I think voluntarily disclosing is best served the board's interests, helps ensure transparency, and fosters the public's trust in the board. Because I am able to participate in this matter fairly, objectively, and in the public interest, I will be participating in the board's discussion and vote on this matter.

[06:40:41] Thank you, Supervisor Franklin. Supervisor Ware? Thank you, Madam Chair. Are we going to have the presentation before the public hearing? I was actually, sorry, going to say if there was a presentation. But, I mean, this is still part of the public hearing standard agenda. So, I don't know.

[06:40:57] Am I wrong here? Am I wrong? All right. You've got to keep these meetings interesting. All right. If we have a presentation, please come forward. Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the board.

[06:41:15] My name is Noah Klein. I'm an attorney with the law firm of Venable. Here tonight with me on behalf of the applicant is Jay Lustig. We also have a couple members of our development team, Kayla Ord and Steve Grant. We're here to present the Route 29 Commercial Center.

[06:41:34] We are very happy to be in front of you tonight. This project has been a long time coming, nearly two years. Before I begin, I would like to thank staff, Scott Meyer, with his typical thorough and professional comments on this application, made for a better project. And this is an upscale modern commercial plaza right along Route 29.

[06:42:02] And we'll just get right into the presentation. There we go. Okay, so let's just take a quick look at the location of the site. This is a four-acre piece right along Route 29, not too far from the intersection of Somerset Crossing Drive. We are directly across the street from the Carver Road and that community as well as Hopewell's Landing just a little just it's that cluster of homes

[06:42:41] right right next to Carver Road. We are right adjacent to the Gainesville VDOT facility or the VDOT Gainesville facility excuse me and one other feature for this property there's a telecom tower in the back of the property, a camouflaged telecom tower, all that, and one of the parcels, there are three parcels at issue here, one of which was already zoned B1 a couple years ago as the Econize rezoning. So with that pretty elaborate graphic there, we are going to

[06:43:17] take a look at the comp plan profile. This area comprises about one, a little over 1% of this overall RN2 area, and just something to point out, I'm sure you all are familiar with the 2040 Comp Plan by this point, but one of the unique sort of aspects of the 2040 Comp Plan that distinguishes it from the previous Comp Plan that we all knew and loved was the fact that in certain districts, they looked at what were previously mono-use, so-called Euclidean districts that were very centered on one primary use, and in the 2040 plan,

[06:43:53] open that up to allow for some mix which makes sense particularly when you look at somewhere in residential context that you do want to have a mix of non-residential particularly some retail service retail neighborhood serving retail and in the rn2 classification there is a certain percentage that's allowed uh i believe it's about up to about five percent uh we're obviously one percent and for the reasons that we'll talk about really just makes the most sense for this piece to to locate that commercial notwithstanding the fact that we already have a parcel that was zoned

[06:44:29] b1 so here is the overview zoning layout uh the existing uh again that b1 piece that i mentioned uh and two uh a1 non-conforming pieces uh we're proposing a b1 um district uh that existing b1 piece again that was the uh i think it's pronounced the equinized rezoning that was approved um several years ago it was conversion from office to to commercial when we approached the project the b1 piece already had a list of proffers proffered use exclusions there wasn't a specified

[06:45:07] gdp for specific use it was really to look at a bunch of different uses and what made that interesting was at the time that was a cec designation for this property and i guess i I should also point out that one of the other strengths of the 2040 plan was doing away with the CEC designation. And so with that B1 piece, B1 was not at that time not consistent with the comp plan, but what mitigated that was excluding certain uses to make the commercial more neighborhood friendly. And so we maintained those commitments. We made a change based on

[06:45:47] some community comments, which I'll talk about once in a little bit. But we have that B1 piece, And all we're doing is extending that B-1 to the three acres to the left. And again, given the area context here, commercial does make sense.

[06:46:03] We've designed the project to sort of take advantage, I suppose, of the existing infrastructure here. And also rezoning it to this B-1 commercial, concentrated commercial plaza does address certain issues.

[06:46:18] For instance, right now, that B1 piece, you could put a retail use that's consistent with the proffers where you'd have a commercial entrance with really not a lot of off-site mitigation, where you would have a potential use next door to that where you'd have an additional entrance.

[06:46:36] And having those entrances close by is not really an optimal scenario for VDOT, particularly along this corridor. So from a functional standpoint, we would argue that it makes sense. So here's some key themes. It's a modern community-oriented commercial plaza. It optimizes the property in view of the area context. We're accountable to existing future transportation needs. We've been responsive to community concerns, and it does honor the site history.

[06:47:07] Here is the view from across the street of the frontage of the property. You do not see the tower there at that time. However, just wait. And this just gives you an idea of the frontage.

[06:47:24] You can sort of see a portion of the VDOT Gainesville facility on the right-hand side, and you'll see the median break right here. And this standpoint is from Carver Road looking at the frontage of the property. But because it didn't quite, this picture doesn't quite capture the true sort of feeling of this property, yours truly did venture to provide some additional photos that it is a camouflage tower, but I'm going to point out where it is.

[06:47:55] It's that structure in the middle. That sits in the rear of the property. To the right is, again, the VDOT Gainesville facility, which I think you can even see some gravel there. That's for snowplow removal. This photo below is as you approach the site from northbound 29.

[06:48:14] And so this is, I guess, the sort of curb appeal that you experience as you approach the property. And our property is just beyond that fence line. And so that is sort of the existing characteristics of the property. And this photo is from the vantage point looking south along northbound 29.

[06:48:34] And here is our proposed elevation. Again, as I mentioned, it's a modern, upscale retail facility. We have three land bays, essentially, or three pad sites, I should say. Further closest to the VDOT Gainesville facility, we have an auto zone, excuse me, retail facility, retail use.

[06:48:54] We have a middle pad site that will have a restaurant with outdoor seating and two tenant spaces. And again, I'll reiterate that those tenant spaces are going to be governed by proffers that were really intended to serve the community and to be a neighborhood specific.

[06:49:12] And then we do have a Starbucks drive-thru on the end as you make your way northbound. And believe it or not, that Starbucks drive-thru is the first one within, I think the closest one is 7 miles, 7.3 miles, believe it or not.

[06:49:28] And this is right along 29. So what we've heard, to be honest, is that everyone really, really likes that Starbucks. And for good reason. This is from the other side. There's, again, the tail end of the VDOT Gainesville facility. And so the way this project has been designed is to sort of take advantage of that.

[06:49:48] As you approach from northbound and you go past the VDOT facility, you encounter use and auto zone use, which I would argue sort of serves as a transitional use to make your way more to the neighborhood-serving restaurant and the Starbucks drive-thru.

[06:50:03] So really try to take advantage of the existing characteristics to design the site. and really make it something that really vastly improves upon the existing condition given the VEDA facility and also given that telecom tower in the back.

[06:50:22] Here is just the layout of the property from our GDP. Again, you see the building layout, the building footprints. That Starbucks drive-through has plenty of stacking space. We're We're not seeking any waivers.

[06:50:39] There's plenty of depth within the site to accommodate that. We are providing, from a transportation standpoint, we essentially provided VDOT their wish list. We are building a third through lane in connection with the eventual widening of Route 29.

[06:51:00] So we're building that. We're also dedicating, well, reserving right-of-way for future dedication. There are a couple more improvements. I'll chat about in the community outreach component of the presentation. But I just wanted to highlight some of the major things that we're doing with this site.

[06:51:19] Quickly, this is the landscaping profile. We're providing the full H-Cod buffer along the frontage, along 29. I find it interesting, the discussion for the Bristow Commons about the Catawba tree and the preservation there.

[06:51:38] I have to say that we are also preserving a tree. It's not a specimen tree. It doesn't have the same celebrity status, apparently, as the Catawba tree. But it is an oak tree that, from our first submission to our second submission, that came up from a comment in Environmental Services looking at, again, not specimen, but older, mature trees.

[06:52:00] There's a 22-inch oak that was right along the alignment of the drive-thru. So we realigned the drive-thru to preserve it, then worked on some proper language for some preservation techniques. So that is also a feature here and then we have buffering obviously to the south near that telecom tower And then the standard buffering on the right and left hand side and one look and one of the other things I'll point out is that one of the other sort of changes that we made through the submissions is we took out some parking In the the lots closest to Route 29 to provide additional

[06:52:40] Opportunities for interior parking lot landscaping which in a kind of residential context is kind of what you what you'd like to see So community engagement we again, we're right across from the Carver Carver Road community and in the Hopewell's Landing Homeowners Association a little further away is the Lake Manassas residential homeowners association. We've engaged with them as well And we're getting we're getting near the end of the presentation supervisor So here's what I want to talk about in terms of the community engagement because this was a very big component of this discussion with the community

[06:53:18] There are these existing conditions. There is a median break right along route 29 right in front of our our site and This area right now It's it's this stretch of 20 excuse me this stretch of 29 an additional stretch of 29 beyond that Down to route 15 as part of what is it's called the V dot project pipeline study where they're starting looking at crash data around certain nodes.

[06:53:45] And so VDOT, we know, was focused on this area in terms of general safety improvement. And along this section of 29, as you go south from Somerset Crossing, you'll see some median breaks that are not signalized. And if you go north on Somerset Crossing, towards 66, you'll notice that every median break there does have a signal.

[06:54:07] And so one of the first things that when we went and had our initial discussions with VDOT was they said, OK, here's what we would like to see. We'd like to see the future third lane. Yes, we're happy. We're happy to provide that.

[06:54:24] We'd like right-of-way dedication. We're providing that right-of-way dedication. We would like to see install left-hand turn lanes in the median and right-hand turn lanes in the median. We're providing that. Restricted access from the exit of our site, so no left turns out of our site, of course.

[06:54:43] But one of the big sticking points was they also wanted us to restrict access off of Carver Road. And they wanted that because they were looking at various ways where they can improve the safety condition. And they look at applications going along this route to find it.

[06:55:03] Now, we weren't entirely convinced that it was absolutely necessary given some of the numbers that were generated, but VDOT was very insistent upon it. So when we went out to the communities, particularly Carver Road and then Hopewell's Landing, you can imagine their response to that.

[06:55:19] And it was not supportive. And so we held discussions with them, and I'll say that no one had any issue with what we're proposing in terms of the actual use. It was that restriction, which obviously would have restricted cars coming out of Carver Road and also would have redirected a certain amount of traffic onto Hopewell's Landing Drive, which, again, is another unsignalized intersection.

[06:55:46] And so through those discussions, we went back to VDOT and made our case as to that particular restriction and pointing out that we are already improving the safety condition. And we are providing a new left turn lane into Carver Road that does not exist now.

[06:56:05] And the traffic that's really generated there does not warrant that restriction. It's really just a safety element that they were looking for us to produce. And so VDOT did relent. VDOT did back down from that.

[06:56:21] And so we were ultimately able, through that community engagement, to remove that restriction. But we're still keeping the left turn away from our site into Carver Road. And so we are, in fact, and VDOT acknowledges that we are creating a better safety improvement with that new left turn into Carver Road.

[06:56:41] So with that, the folks at Carver Road were very pleased with that. Hopewells Landing was delighted about that. We received a very nice letter of support from Hopewells Landing, HOA, in advance of the Planning Commission meeting. And so that was just an example of working with communities, talking to them, and being responsive to their concerns, and then making the case to folks in a position to make things easier for them.

[06:57:11] And, oh wait, do you want to go back, excuse me, if I can, there we go. And so I do want to talk really briefly about our other community engagement with Hopewell's Landing. We met with them prior to our submission, and I believe I've broken the fare.

[06:57:33] I'll be brief. We met with Lake Manassas. Their initial outreach to us was they did not prefer the AutoZone retail use for reasons that they believe it will be turned into some vehicle maintenance facility, like a Jiffy Lube, I suppose.

[06:57:56] did like the Starbucks and did ask us to look at adding one of the profit exclusions of the existing B1 piece was a financial institution. They asked us to consider that. We did. We took that out. And so that's allowed now as one of the tenants. So we wanted to be responsive to those concerns and their preferences. We haven't made any headway on the issue of the auto zone. I understand that your council has issued a statement raising issues with a comprehensive plan.

[06:58:25] I'll let him speak to that, but we did continue that engagement. We added proper language to ensure that no one performs any maintenance on site, and that was engagement that took from the beginning before we submitted up until the present day.

[06:58:43] So the last point I'll make on our site history, we are providing through consultation with the county archaeologists in connection with the Histo Commission, We're providing a wayfinding sign on site to honor the site's history as sort of part of the overall area significance for the settlement.

[06:59:01] And that will be something that will be worked out. The language will be worked out, of course, prior to the final site plan, and it will be provided at that time. And so that is what we're proposing. We hope we're able to gain your support, and I'm happy to answer any questions you all have. Thank you.

[06:59:18] All right. Bully, do we have a staff presentation? Good evening, members of the board, Chair Jefferson, Supervisor Gordy, Scott Meyer in the planning office.

[06:59:40] I'll be brief. No one went into a lot of details with this, but I also worked on that telecommunications facility. I have to say that five years ago, it was deferred 14 times with our shot clock reset. So a lot of history, a lot of familiarity with the site.

[06:59:58] But this is where that we called a monopine, but it's a faux. That's what it is, the staff report. You can all see that. But I just wanted to give a little context. So, obviously, this is the site right here, NOAA-oriented view.

[07:00:14] This is the VEDA facility, Lake Manassas. And, of course, you know, we have Carver Road to the north. So this is, again, essentially to rezone the site. It's a combination. It's actually a proffer amendment and a rezoning because we're changing the proffers that were part of the Econized Development.

[07:00:32] We're merging it with what will be a cohesive commercial retail center to serve the area. Okay, just to back up for one second here. So we have – so we talked about R&2. R&2, also residential neighborhood, used to essentially be SRL, suburban residential low, in our previous comprehensive plan.

[07:00:55] So we are rezoning all of the piece here to B-1. I lifted this from, I took this from NOAA's application. His presentation, I thought this is a good graphic. This is just showing the existing condition.

[07:01:10] It's showing what will be proposed. Again, we will all now have B-1 zoning with this. This is in the staff report, but basically it's summarizing how there's retail buildings. One thing to point out with RN2, this is a secondary use.

[07:01:30] It is an allowable use. I know that there were some concerns that you may hear about from one of the other representatives, council representing Lake Manassas. But in RN2, it does allow for a non-residential component. We feel this is an appropriate non-residential component.

[07:01:48] It will provide services for the area. So we're looking at a cohesive retail service component. There are environmental features, wetland features, but we've negotiated with the applicant to stay out of those environmentally sensitive areas.

[07:02:05] Even when we did the telecommunication facility, we shifted the access road to avoid wetland impacts. This is from the environmental constraints analysis. Again, the monopine facility, I'll say it again, is down here. This is the layout.

[07:02:20] again we have extensive access components no already walked you through that we feel that this is again it's addressing the concerns of the neighborhood to the north it's also creating maximizing safety there is also a variable with shared use path because after Planning Commission there wasn't specific guidance to do anything additional but it was discovered that there were some utility poles that were basically obstructing the alignment of of the straight-on shared-use pass.

[07:02:51] So we were able to figure out a variable width, which is basically respecting where some of these utilities are, and that we've been preliminarily coordinating with PDOT as well. You've seen the layout. Again, we have a cohesive design.

[07:03:08] This is being proffered as well, and there also is a sign modification to allow two monument signs, which we feel is appropriate. So Planning Commission recommended approval and the staff is recommending approval with slightly modified proffers that just take into account the shared use path along the frontage.

[07:03:28] We feel in the overall context it's consistent with the intent of residential neighborhood with this being a secondary use as non-residential. And we feel there's a cohesive design, there's a comprehensive design in it, and we feel that it will provide essential services to the area.

[07:03:47] With that, I'll try to answer any questions. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for both presentations. I am going to see if we have any questions from the dais. Supervisor Gordy. Can you go back just a couple of slides to just the whole layout of the site?

[07:04:06] With the plan? Keep going back. Okay. One more. Right there. So what looks like our favorite topic is interparcel connector keeps coming. So on the back side there, you've got the straight in all the way down. what is uh what is the you you see the drive scott right the drive that comes straight down the middle oh i'm sorry right here yeah so um they're currently um uh is is that their intent to hook

[07:04:38] that to another parcel at some point or is this just a place for uh trucks to back up and turn around or whatever you mean right in here yeah so um thank you for asking so this is um following the alignment of the access road to the telecommunication facility so uh there's a lot of wetland features here so this is more of just a it's a um uh if it continued it would basically you know it wouldn't it would go over where the telecommunication facility is um but there's no

[07:05:14] intent as far as i can tell to extend this it's basically just it's responding to the existing features it's avoiding uh conflict with the access and it's just it can serve as a stub and a turnaround for them okay thank you um on the um for the applicant um if you come speak to signage at the auto zone the one of the concerns is is having people um working on their cars in parking lot can you speak to the measures that you're seeking to address that concern from the community sure well one of the things that we um we added to the proffers was signage on the on the

[07:05:54] building to ensure that there's no no auto maintenance uh i mean it is fair to say that autozone as a complementary service will perform certain uh certain benefits such as you know changing a windshield or checking a battery i don't know to what extent that that's how regularly that's done for it to rise to an issue. You mean a windshield wiper, not a windshield.

[07:06:16] Windshield wiper, windshield wiper, excuse me. Thank you for clarifying, Professor Gordy. So in terms of what we're doing to mitigate, we do have signage, but I also am careful to overstate whether that's, in fact, a legitimate issue that we need to further address beyond signage. We do have an HCOD buffer, so there's going to be some screening there. But I would also say that in terms of sort of that visual impact, it is right adjacent to what essentially

[07:06:52] is a gravelly gravel pit where you have trucks, where you have harsh-looking aluminum fencing. So we think that an occasional windshield wiper being changed is probably not going to, in our our view, not constitute so great a visual impact as to warrant further mitigation.

[07:07:17] And at this point, do you have any commitments for the retail spaces, other retail spaces? At, for the tenants, at this, at this point, I'm not aware that we do have commitments. But again, they're all governed by the same proffers, where you have exclusions that have been worked out with the community with the existing piece that we're also maintaining but again adding at this point adding a financial institution at the request of lake manassas okay thank you madam chair supervisor angry thank you madam chair um so i think all of us up here who've driven through

[07:07:56] that area and really from folks seeing this this is a serious upgrade um much needed only question i have is just what i'm looking at here in the picture as far as uh shrubs or low bush any any that in the front is it just gonna be that open no I should I guess I should clarify that this is the landscaping these that we're showing the elevations is not it doesn't track with the landscaping that we're showing with the H cod buffer which we have a fully planted H cod buffer along 29 I think we don't have the landscape in there really just sort of emphasize the massing and

[07:08:32] the building and to show the location of the monument sign but it but I'm glad you ask because I wanted to clarify. And I also want to help you. I know we talked a lot about that beautiful tree that we saved, but you said an oak tree? What was that tree? Yes, a white oak tree, 22-inch. And that is native. So, you know, we just want to congratulate you on saving that tree.

[07:08:52] So, thank you. We are more than happy to do that. Hey, hey, I just want to make a point out that you can't grow orange trees in Virginia. We're getting serious about our trees up in here. You know, a little defensive, too. And, oh, by the way, in Williamsburg, they lined the the the main uh park or the uh front of the old uh governor's mansion with catapultries historic to virginia there you go sorry you got caught up in something else that's fine that's fine happy to

[07:09:30] do our part he's like why am i here all right it's getting late and i think we're getting a little slap happy any other serious questions before we scare folks off uh we ain't there yet All right, so thank you so very much.

[07:09:46] We are now, Supervisor Bob, we are going to hear public hearings, and we have two people who are signed up in person. I will call both of you up there if you can let us know where you live or where you generally reside.

[07:10:07] You have three minutes. We have Gifford, Hampshire, and Teresa Menz. May I have the overhead on?

[07:10:29] Practice.

[07:11:01] Madam Chair, members of the board, I'm Gifford Hampshire. I'm with the law firm of Blankingship and Keith, and I represent the Lake Manassas Residential Homeowners Association. And I'm pleased to be before you tonight, as will I understand, as the first meeting of this board.

[07:11:17] I rise here on behalf of the association, and unlike many complaints you may hear from associations and neighbors who are opposed to development, This one is based in a principled reason in your own comprehensive plan, and not just your comprehensive plan of days of old.

[07:11:37] It's one that you adopted just a little over a year ago in January of 2023. And what you said in that comprehensive plan that involved a lot of meetings in this room with a lot of community involvement, including from my clients, was that this area should be zoned RN, residential neighborhood, T2, one to four units per acre.

[07:11:59] And what you see up here in the screen is T2, and what you see is circled is what is the primary use in RNT2. It is single-family detached. And it is true, as both Mr. Klein and staff and Mr. Myers indicated, that this plan does allow secondary uses, but secondary uses are, as the name implies, have to be secondary to a primary use.

[07:12:28] There has to be a primary use based in your comprehensive plan, and that has other grounding in your ordinances, namely the zoning ordinance, which says that a secondary use shall mean a use permitted only in conjunction with a principal use permitted in the same zoning district.

[07:12:49] I urge you to take another example. If you had another development here, a much bigger development of 100 acres, and a developer was coming in with all commercial or your comprehensive plan, 100% commercial or your comprehensive plan called for residential development as a primary use, would you consider that to be consistent with the comprehensive plan?

[07:13:12] The principle is no different here because you have to evaluate the application as it comes to you based upon the uses that are proposed. And the uses that are proposed in this case are 100% commercial.

[07:13:28] And what you also cannot do is consider this use that is 100% commercial secondary to non-uses, to uses that aren't uses, uses in undeveloped areas in that big R2 area that you saw on that screen.

[07:13:45] That would make a mockery, I suggest to you, of your own comprehensive plan. You have to take an application as it comes. And as I said in my letter to you dated November 28, I pointed out to you and I went through the various areas in the comprehensive plan that speak to uses, not possibilities.

[07:14:03] In the land use policy, the comprehensive plan is the primary mechanism available to the county for establishing locations for various levels of land use intensity. Through this mechanism, development is encouraged to occur in accordance with the plan.

[07:14:19] New development applications and land use policy LU 2.2 must be consistent with the long-range land use map. And I suggest to you, I see I'm out of time, that you cannot just throw that away because you might have a desirable application in front of you.

[07:14:36] You have to evaluate it against the land use policies in the comprehensive plan. I'm sorry, I can time this up. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. All right. Teresa Mintz? There's another gentleman that wants to speak after me, and should he have had five minutes because he's for an HOA?

[07:14:58] Just wondering. Okay, Therisa Menz from the Potomac District. I'm very sick and tired of the fact that our border is wide open, and we're getting people coming all over the place, and I've got to hear about affordable housing and taxes.

[07:15:16] What are you going to do when I can't pay my taxes because you've taxed me to death, and I have to move out of my home to exist. You don't care because you're in a nice home and you're getting a 70% pay raise on my taxes.

[07:15:33] Yeah, I'm tired of it. I am just, I'm appalled. You hang in there, Supervisor Ware, because we're being shafted. So I don't want to hear about affordable housing.

[07:15:49] I started with the townhouse and I went up, okay? This commercial, does it really belong there? This gentleman here pretty much says it doesn't. unless I didn't hear them correctly. Okay? I'm not impressed with the majority of you up there, especially when I have to hear about affordable housing. What are you going to do about the rest of us that you are taxing us out of here? Yes, for your own glory, your own needs. You don't

[07:16:21] represent us. Enjoy your 70% tax, excuse me, pay raise that the rest of us aren't getting. Yes, I'm angry. I'm very angry. So once again, this gentleman wants to speak. If anyone...

[07:16:38] This man have had five. So just so we can clarify, if someone isn't with an organization, they need to request their five minutes up front. And if anyone else likes to speak before we move on to the remote comments regarding this hearing, please go up to the microphone now.

[07:17:01] Good evening again, and thanks for allowing me to just share with you. So I heard the gentleman that made the proposal talking about, you know, bringing an auto zone. We already have, I live in Lake Manassas, sorry, I didn't introduce myself with where I live.

[07:17:19] So we already have an advanced auto less than a mile away from where the proposed auto zone is going to be. We already have a Starbucks less than a mile away from where that proposed Starbucks is going to be. And then Highway 29 is already congested with traffic. So actually even putting another traffic light where he proposed to put a traffic light is not going to even lighten, lessen the burden on Highway 29.

[07:17:44] So I think this is not something that the community needs. It's something, it's extra that we don't really need in the community. We already have congestion. We already have a lot of traffic. It's difficult to commute from Highway 29 to 66 and vice versa.

[07:18:02] So that's all I wanted to add to this. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else would like to move to the microphone? If not, I am going to... Do we have anyone for a vote? So we do not have anyone online. So I am going to close our public hearing on this, and we are going to move on to a motion second and discussion around this before we take a vote.

[07:18:31] So can I get a motion to approve item 13C, the rezoning proffer amendment for the Route 29 Commercial Center? Madam Chair, do we want to allow the applicant to address any of the questions that were... That is a good point. Yes, public hearing time is closed.

[07:18:48] If you would like to come up and address... Please turn on the microphone. Please turn it on. Thank you. Thank you.

[07:19:03] I'll just simply respond that we did work with all the communities, including Lake Manassas. Their initial outreach to us was to, again, make the point about the auto zone, but also to advise that they like the Starbucks and also to make sure that we can add a financial institution as a tenant.

[07:19:27] So we did that. We were happy to do that. The comprehensive plan discussion, frankly, I don't think I need to comment on that. We have the considered judgment of staff, the folks who wrote the comprehensive plan. And so we know that we're consistent with the long-range land use here.

[07:19:46] And if anyone has anything else they would like to ask, I'm happy to address that. But I think I'll leave it at that. Thank you so very much. So I'd like to entertain a motion on item 13C. Madam Chair, I move that we approve item 13C.

[07:20:06] Second. Discussion. Madam Chair. Hold on. Supervisor Vody. Very, very quickly. On the topic of trees, I remember us voting on that monopine a number of years ago in all its glory to see it there. So just wanted to say that.

[07:20:23] I'm not going to lose any sleep over voting for that monopine. That's all I'll say about that. Secondly, appreciate the folks that came out on this. I know it's not easy to see new uses in your neighborhood, especially ones that you have a certain perception over.

[07:20:39] What I will just say overall is we need more businesses in our community. We need more businesses that help the community out. To me, we look at the entire district when it comes to the long-range land use, As was said, these uses that were proposed here face and they're serving the community.

[07:20:57] To me, there's no inconsistency there. It's a small piece of much larger residential long-range land use district. Therefore, I have no problems with it, so I'll be supporting it. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you so very much. I don't have any other speakers in the queue, so let's go ahead and take a vote.

[07:21:20] Motion passes. Seven to one. Supervisor Bailey voting nay. So thank you very much.

[07:21:41] We are now going to move into public comment time. We are going to grab the list. And actually, while we are grabbing the list, Supervisor Vega brought something to my attention.

[07:22:05] So I'll let Supervisor Vega have the floor briefly. Thank you, Madam Chair. We were a little bit pressed for time during our supervisor's time, but certainly want to acknowledge Women Veterans Week. And as so, I would like to read a proclamation in honor of 3 million women have served in or with the armed forces since the American Revolution, protecting freedom through dedication to duty courage and sacrifice and whereas house joint resolution number 76 designated the third full week of march as women veterans week in honor of the approximately 2 million women veterans in the united states with more than 109 000 of them

[07:22:41] residing in virginia more than any other state whereas virginia is a proud home of the military women's memorial the leading memorial and education center honoring the commitment contributions and experiences of service women and whereas women from prince william county have and continue to serve with distinction in the armed forces for all major conflicts and have demonstrated great skill sacrifice and commitment to defending the principles upon which our nation was founded on and whereas women veterans from prince william county continue to serve their communities as leaders in both the public and private sectors and now therefore be it resolved that the prince william board of county supervisors does hereby

[07:23:17] I proclaim the full week of March 17th through the 23rd, 2024, as Women Veterans Week in Prince William County, and I encourage our residents to recognize the courage, honor, and dignity with which women have served bravely and continue to serve courageously in defense of our nation.

[07:23:33] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you so very much for reading that. It's very important to honor the people who have served our country. So for public comment time, I have one person who signed up for in-person public comment time. Again, please state your name. and your district or where you generally reside?

[07:23:51] Three Semen's the Potomac District. I want to thank law enforcement and first responders for all they do for us. And I'm very disgusted. I'm sick and tired of hearing about affordable housing when you guys are jacking up our taxes, when you guys have given yourselves a 70% raise.

[07:24:16] And when our county exec came from Baltimore someplace, not even local, not even a promotion for somebody in-house, and he's getting $380,000 a year, you know, that's pretty darn good.

[07:24:36] If I got that kind of money, I'd consider myself rich. And I am disgusted with all of you except for Supervisor Ware. I'm sorry. I may be making you angry, Supervisor Ware.

[07:24:53] Too bad. Too bad. You seem to be the only one who's thinking and cares about our taxes and what's being built here and how we're being shafted. Yes, you can tell. This is why I didn't come before.

[07:25:08] And like I told you, our borders are wide open. We are getting all these people coming over. We're supposed to take care of them. They're supposed to be ahead of us. And don't tell me about celebrating women veterans when we're being slammed with illegals, okay?

[07:25:29] Because the service that we were given doesn't matter. But yet, the corrupt veterans, they're getting away big time with stuff. Yes, I'm saying it. I'm very to the point. You don't like what I'm saying? Well, I don't like my taxes going up.

[07:25:46] I don't like being shafted. And I don't appreciate incompetent people being on this board. No, I don't. You're living your personal life the way you want at our expense. 70% tax raise, pay raise, excuse me, pay raise for you all.

[07:26:06] Yes, and I don't believe that you can be objective supervisor, Franklin, or you other two that are married to teachers. So yeah, I am disgusted. But I know that won't matter to any of you.

[07:26:22] you don't care. As long as you're shafting us and wasting our tax dollars and taking care of your elitist stance, that's all you care about. Yes, I'm mad. Yes, I'm mad. And I have every right to be mad. You know, Supervisor Ware, I know you could teach me a lot, okay? I don't have the knowledge you have, but I know that you understand things. I've watched you, I've heard you. The rest

[07:26:53] of you, your shaftiness, and I have no use for you. Enjoy your life with your 70% pay raise. Thank you. Clark Madden, do we have anyone? I think we have maybe two people signed up. No one?

[07:27:11] No one's online at the moment? All right. So this closes our public comment time. So our next meeting will be next week, Tuesday, March 19th, starting at two o'clock. And with that, i'd like to move adjourn second all right thank you so let's vote while andrea is while andrea is doing that i just want to make note i will not be here present next week due to a work commitment that will have me out of town so um i will uh see you in april you can come in remotely

[07:27:48] vote for my skiff vote unanimous thank you so much everyone and have a safe trip home thank you

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