Coraggio Consulting
Prince William Board of County Supervisors Meeting — Work Session, Tuesday, June 11, 2024

Date: Tuesday, June 11, 2024
Place: Prince William County Board of County Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 6h 41m (video)
Official meeting video (Prince William County, Granicus): https://pwcgov.granicus.com/player/clip/3495
Official Board of County Supervisors page (Prince William County): https://www.pwcva.gov/department/board-county-supervisors

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-11-01. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:17:45] All right, good afternoon, everyone. We are going to start today's meeting. Today is 2 o'clock on Tuesday, June 11th. Let us start with a moment of silence.

[00:18:09] Let us rise, if you are able, for the Pledge of Allegiance.

[00:18:30] All right, before we move on to our regular agenda, I have one addition. Supervisor Margaret Franklin has requested to join us remotely. If I could get a motion. So moved. Second. All right. All in favor, I doubt there's any discussion. I will never live that down.

[00:19:43] Vote unanimous. Supervisor Franklin absent from vote. All right. We will welcome her in because now she can vote with us. We see you, Margaret. How are you? All right.

[00:19:59] Now we're going to move on to item three, public comment time. I am going to call people up in groups of five. Please remember to say your name, your magisterial district, or where you generally reside. And let's see. I'm going to start with Mr. Jason Brown, Matt Wonder, Tyler Johnson, Michael Whitlock, Brian O'Hara.

[00:20:34] And remember, we have three minutes. You'll have three minutes, and you'll see it up on the screen. Oh, up back here. Yes. All right, sir, you may proceed. Thank you. Good afternoon. Sorry, can you hear me?

[00:20:50] Good afternoon. My name is Jason Brown. I am in the Brentsville District. I've been a resident in Gainesville for a little over 16 years, and I'm here to oppose the initiative to remove the data overlay district. not only am i a resident i am a business owner a local business owner i am the president and partner of the Anderson company we've been called Prince William County home for a little over 25 years now we have three other affiliated companies within the county and we genuinely love the county we're proud supporters of many organizations and charities in the county charities not and such as

[00:21:27] Osborne Park High School Youth for Tomorrow the local turnover police we donate to we adopt local families every Christmas, and we are happy to do so. We love doing it, and we do it because we're able to do it, and right now the reason behind being able to do it is the data center market.

[00:21:44] Our company, like I said, with the four companies total, we're approaching 500 employees, over half of which are Prince William County residents. Over the past several years, over 85 percent of our business has been in the data center market, and the last couple years alone, over half of that has been in the Prince William County alone.

[00:22:02] Without the data center market, the 500 people, 500 employees, 500 families that look to us to support them, that number would probably be under 250, probably closer to 200. I don't know what it would be, and I really don't care to find out, to be honest with you. What I do know is we would be kicking 300 families to the curb, so to speak, because we couldn't support them, and the other 200 families that we would employ would also be struggling, as we would be struggling for existence.

[00:22:29] And that doesn't stop with us. It funnels down to all our subs, our suppliers, the local asphalt plants, the quarries, the concrete plants, all provide several hundreds if not thousands of jobs. That's several hundred if not thousands of families that are relying right now on the data center market. You go knock on their door and ask them if they're busy, they're going to tell you they're slam busy and they're busy with data centers.

[00:22:50] Construction is by far the single largest employer of people anywhere around and without data center market in our area. That's just it right now. That is the employment here. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce did a study, and I'm going to quote them. They said each building supports or each building employs about 1,700 construction workers during its construction.

[00:23:11] You multiply that by the number of data centers in the county, and those are the people that are putting money back into our local stores, our mom-and-pop stores, the gas stations, the restaurants, the box stores, doing the home improvements. And without the data center market right now, this area would be, in my opinion, in a recession.

[00:23:27] The money wouldn't be there to support these places. As far as the money that goes back to the schools from the taxes, I don't know what that is. You guys know better. But raising a daughter in Prince William, I'm amazed at the amenities and the facilities that all these schools have. I know it's due in large part to the data center market.

[00:23:44] And then on the ground, you know, what many people don't understand, the ground that the people are developing is the most undesirable ground in the county. It's high cost. The only thing that can do it is the data centers, and they're providing an impact back to the county in a positive way. Thank you, sir. Next speaker, please. Hello.

[00:24:01] Good afternoon. My name is Tyler Johnson, and I live in the Coles District in Prince William County. So I was actually born here, raised here, and after going to North Carolina and getting my college degree, I came back and actually started my life here with my wife, and we plan to live here for the rest of our life, and we really take pride in our community.

[00:24:26] So right now, I am a project manager for a general contractor, and I'm proud to have my career in Prince William County. And I've been with this company for 10 years, working in Loudoun County and in Prince William County.

[00:24:44] And I'm grateful because it's allowed me to work so close to home, and I'm so happy to be able to work with my neighbors, work near my neighbors. And I'm happy with this community and that everything it's done for me growing up.

[00:24:59] According to a recent study that I read, actually pretty recently, 10% of commercial and industrial construction jobs across Virginia are directly employed building data centers. In northern Virginia, that percentage jumps to impressive 22% actually.

[00:25:19] And then in 2023, data centers throughout just northern Virginia provided approximately 12,340 construction jobs. And my job is one of them, so I'm very grateful for that. Without this county's thriving data center market, I couldn't have returned to such a great community that I was raised in and put down my own roots.

[00:25:47] And I plan, like I said, I plan to build my entire life here in this county. And this county has really honestly been everything to me. I respectfully urge you to vote against any effort to roll back the Data Center Opportunity Zone Overlay District.

[00:26:05] And thank you for your consideration and thank you for the opportunity to speak here. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Matt Wunder, Gainesville District. I'm the president of the Gainesville Haymarket Baseball League, lifelong Prince William County resident.

[00:26:24] I'm here today to thank Cloud HQ for their generous donation to the Prince William County community and to the Baseball League. We are in the middle of a million-dollar-plus capital improvement campaign to improve Cat Harpin Regional Park on the western end of the county.

[00:26:41] We could not do this without their support, so I just want to say thank you to Cloud HQ for having a positive impact in the Prince William County community. community and making a difference for the members of GHBL. Thank you. Thank you so much. Next speaker. And if you're not waiting to speak, if you could please have a seat, that'd be great.

[00:27:01] Thank you. Hello, my name is Michael Whitlock. I'm out of the Manassas area. I'm owner of Transaction Expert, credit card processing, POS systems, online ordering, delivery for restaurants. I'm also a member of the Prince William Chamber of Commerce, board member for six years, currently chaired of Veterans Council, and I'm still an ambassador and excellence in small Business Award winner 2022. Data centers are a vital engine for local employment in Princeton County, both directly and indirectly. According to a September 2023 study by PricewaterhouseCoopers, data centers employ multidisciplinary teams, enriching the pool of talented workers, which

[00:27:40] in turn attracts more businesses. These teams include engineers, building control specialists, security specialists, service technicians, logistical professionals, health managers, safety specialists, and food service workers. I got to meet some of their interns who just came out of NOVA and George Mason University.

[00:28:03] The centers are using local chamber members, including landscapers and diesel mechanics. Moreover, each job within a data center supports more than six additional jobs, and one of those is me. I'm one of those six. My livelihood relies in part in my ability to collaborate with the data center industry in Prince William County.

[00:28:23] This is where I pay and house my servers like the other 130 businesses do in one data center. Eliminating the overlay district would introduce significant uncertainty in the approval process for future data centers, posing a risk to the growth of my business and others like it.

[00:28:44] Unlike other industries, the data center sector is growing and it's reliable. And that's because the Amazons of the world and the Googles of the world want them things to pop up right away. I can't believe how much data there is in the world from these little phones and everything else.

[00:29:01] They are precisely the kind of clients I am to work with as I seek to grow my business and hire more local employees, which in turn contribute to the local taxes. As a resident of Prince William County, I've established roots here, and my family and I are integral parts of the community. I have four kids that graduated from Woodbridge High School, eight grandkids, and two great-grandkids.

[00:29:21] I sincerely wish to continue working here and supporting the data center industry. Your vote on the overlay district directly impacts my future as data center companies decide where to site their facilities and make further investments. Data centers contribute significantly to tax revenue.

[00:29:39] I expect, and others have said, in the next 45 years, I expect to have a billion dollars in tax dollars coming from these data centers for one county. That means funding essential community priorities such as parks, infrastructure, paying police, firemen, teachers more money.

[00:29:56] The county should encourage the growth of this industry to help offset the tax burden on residents like me. And we all need to work together for the environment and everything else to make sure that this happens. Thank you very much. All right. Before the next speaker, I'm going to call up my next list of five.

[00:30:13] Robert Strayen, Layla Bartroff, Elizabeth Matarama, Elena Schlossberg. Good afternoon, board. My name is Brown O'Hara. I am a resident of Octavon District, have been a resident in Prince William County for 18 years.

[00:30:31] I am a data center professional and have been since I've lived in Prince William County. The advent of data center overlay has allowed me to improve my life, shorten my commute, and keep a better household environment with that shorter commute instead of driving to Loudoun County.

[00:30:48] Additionally, my kids have been raised here in this county, and due to my career, I've been able to provide them with a great upbringing. The removal of the overlay will strand my career and potentially hurt others where we would have to actually leave the district, leave the county, to create further development.

[00:31:08] I oppose the removal of the data center overlay opportunity zone, and I appreciate your time today. Thank you. Next speaker. Good afternoon, everyone. I am Robert Straughn. I'm from the NEPSCO district.

[00:31:27] I'm a Prince William resident, and I've been here since 2017. I've lived in this area since 2017. I'm a Cloud HQ data center professional. I'm a graduate from, I'm sorry, I'm a retired U.S. Air Force civil engineer, and I've been in this area since, D.C. metro area, since 1998.

[00:31:51] I have watched the data center development in Loudoun County, and I've been watching it in this area. I understand there are many endeavors to exercise the right to protect the county's resources, and natural and otherwise, and defend the aesthetically pleasing and proud features of Prince William County.

[00:32:08] But please understand the data center industry simply aims to provide a much-needed global commodity to our government, the public, and other businesses, and is in lockstep with the rules in place to doing so. Changing existing rules, which are the basis for buildings already being planned and being operated, will have a significant negative impact on our ability to deliver these critical services and would also extensively impact our jobs.

[00:32:37] There are substantial commodities or community benefits associated with this development and operation of data centers, and I will attempt to highlight a few, though you've heard some of these already. Hundreds or possibly thousands of jobs from various trades or professionals for over 18 to 20 months, 24 months, or even more for building, designing, and operating these buildings.

[00:33:00] Local vendors and merchants reap the benefits of increased workforce in the area with buildings when buildings are constructed. Data center employment is a graciously put pain and steady job for many and don't require a college degree.

[00:33:19] Many of them don't require a college degree. However, there's a two-year associate applied in science degree that's offered by the Northern Virginia Community College for data center operations. And that was recently introduced because of the data center development.

[00:33:36] Many Prince William County residents are taking advantage of this class to propel their career into the fast-growing industry. Data center places a fair few demands on local public services, but pay a tremendous amount of taxes and tax dollars that contributes to the county to fund community growth such as schools, public parks, and roads, repairs, and construction.

[00:34:00] This is an opportunity to leverage a market or industry to offset our tax burden. The Northern Virginia Technology Council study of 2023 stated that data centers have high fiscal benefits, benefits to cost ratio.

[00:34:18] Data Center in Prince William County pay approximately $13 for every tax dollar for every dollar of local public service required. The fiscal benefit to cost ratio for other types of development, such as manufacturing plants, really exceeds 421. Thank you so very much.

[00:34:33] Thank you. Your time was up. Thank you. All right. Next speaker, please. Good afternoon, members of the board. I am Lila Bartraff from the Gainesville District. I am here to voice my opposition to Supervisor Weir's zoning text amendment for the Data Center Opportunity Zone Overlay District, or item 7A on today's agenda.

[00:34:56] I do not support any amendment that changes the terms and conditions of existing plans for projects that the county has already approved. It is a horrible idea to change agreements that are already in place. It makes Prince William a county that companies will not want to work with.

[00:35:14] We are trying to support our citizens by bringing in businesses to help share the tax burden, and this amendment will deter all further businesses from working with us. No business wants to negotiate a deal and go through all the work of getting approval on an application when the county can later say, we changed our mind, now we don't want this.

[00:35:35] If this amendment goes through, every potential business partner is going to think twice before coming to this county. Applying new requirements to already approved projects is going to damage our relationships with current companies and open up the county to lawsuits.

[00:35:54] Amending zoning text as a knee-jerk reaction instead of through a carefully evaluated and transparent process is reckless and irresponsible. What this county needs are plans for our future development instead of attempts to undo the decisions of the previous board.

[00:36:11] Please vote no to Agenda Item 7A. Thank you. Next speaker, please.

[00:36:18] I'd like Elmo, please. Elizabeth Martirana, Gainesville, Prince William County, almost 48 years. Village Place Tech Park was approved April 21st, 2021 and was not in the overlay district. These pictures are the developer's rendition of the project, first looking west toward Haymarket and then east toward Gainesville.

[00:36:56] When originally built, the new homeowners were promised a mixed-use center of 45 acres and 19 acres of townhomes. I took these photos last evening, looking west towards Haymarket and then looking east towards Gainesville.

[00:37:18] It was gorgeous last night, wasn't it? From the staff report, I quote, Applicant had virtual meetings with the Village Place HOA on September 27, 2020. November 24th, 2020, and March 31st, 2021. From the web, more than 370,000 Americans died of COVID-19 between October 2020 and April 2021. Do you think the residents of this village place cared about some notice put under their doormat about building a data center nearby? No. This drone photo was

[00:37:55] taken this past October. Quote from the staff report, on balance, this application is found to be inconsistent with the relevant components of the long-range use plan as amended by the I-66 Route 29 sector plan. This picture is a travesty, isn't it? On February 16, 2021, the previous board voted unanimously with one absentee for a zoning text amendment for the Agritourism and Arts Overlay District countywide. This is the map of that Agritourism and Arts Overlay District presented

[00:38:32] to the board for their approval in 2021. This is what we should have done with this land rezone for data centers. I went to our county website and googled the agritourism and arts overlay district yesterday and it took me to the county mapper. I'm used to using the county mapper. I couldn't find this district. I saw eight other overlay districts but no agritourism and arts overlay district how come this district was approved in february 21 i would like to ask planning director stern to please make sure that this overlay district is very important and must be put on

[00:39:09] the county mapper website for all to see i have previous previously stated that we have a crisis in this county with the building of so many data centers why do we have this crisis you have often heard this statement insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results how long are you going to keep approving these data centers and ruining people's lives stop now be part of the solution to the world's biggest preventable environmental crisis and approve supervisor weir's zoning tax amendment today thank you thank you before we get on to

[00:39:46] the next speaker i want to call up the next group um so i have alan olas um theresa mens and then I'm going onto the list of people who are outside of the county. I have Kate Smiley and Keith Harney and Brian Mazzella. I'd also like Elmo, please. My name is Elena Schlossberg, and I've been a resident in Prince William County for 23 years. We've built our forever home, and I'm a native

[00:40:26] Virginian, and I appreciate the advocacy for jobs. This overlay is not about jobs, and having been one of the people that pushed the overlay after the Haymarket transmission line, I understand it very well. It was intended to create a boundary because at that point, data centers were allowed by Wright everywhere except residential and the rural crescent. So what that did was it created a boundary. What we are experiencing is not sustainable. So I want to point out what nobody

[00:41:03] is discussing here. And I invite any one of you supervisors to come to a Prince William Energy Engagement Group meeting with Dominant Energy and your minds will be blown at the amount of infrastructure that is being required in this county. Right now, tomorrow night, is a meeting about the Dave Store transmission line, which supervisors, four of them still sitting on this dais, voted for the 29 Tech Park and Village Tech Park. And we warned you that it would trigger a

[00:41:32] transmission line. This is that data center. One of three hyperscale. This is another view. This is a transmission line. This is what is proposed to run through two districts just to meet one data center campus. This is what a transmission line and a substation look like. And this is what you

[00:42:07] all are not following through on the next shoot a drop in Prince William County. And this is happening in multiple areas. In a one-mile radius, Western Prince William will have six substations. Add what's coming to the parcel across from Jiffy Lube, that's another eight.

[00:42:37] My point to everyone here is that the decisions that you are making have real consequences, not only on citizens, but on the grid. And Chair Jefferson was on a bus with the coalition back in 2023 when we went to Richmond, and our ask was that we get oversight and regulation from the state because our local government is approving projects that have significant impacts not only on the community, but on our grid and on our natural resources, water and power. I'm asking

[00:43:15] you to rescind the overlay, and it's time to start fresh. It's time to have SUPs for everything, and you all need to understand the amount of power and water that you are thrusting upon the community that needs to be met. Next speaker, please.

[00:43:36] Theresa Men's Potomac District. I want to let you know I was, oh, I want to thank law enforcement and first responders for all they do for us. Thank you. You are in harm's way. Unfortunately, our board is not, okay?

[00:43:54] I want you to know last Tuesday's meeting thoroughly disgusted me, and I don't want to hear anything about mental health from you. jerks up there, especially Franklin. It's too bad she's not here, because you don't care what is happening to the citizens. Run away, Bailey. Go ahead, run away. You don't care what's happening to the citizens. You're mentally abusing them, terrorizing them with all your little projects.

[00:44:25] You're jerking up our taxes. You don't care. And I tell you what, the last meeting, someone was almost in tears and I got news for you that pissed me off because that person is a citizen been bringing up stuff that is legit here and you all have ignored that person and others and I'm not wearing my boots so all you people that are all huggy huggy kissy kissy you know go break your neck I don't care and I do support supervisor wear and supervisor wear has great ideas he's

[00:45:01] been ignored, especially by our county exec, okay? He came out of nowhere. I don't know where he came, but we're paying him great money, okay? I am so mad. Yes, you can tell I'm mad. What happened to our Constitution? Why are we not celebrating and teaching Constitution? Why are we bringing up Pride Month? You want to get sexual? You want me to make some sexual comments up here? I will, but I'm not going to you know what prince william is controlled by satan this is a cesspool and george soros is

[00:45:38] one of your best leaders especially when it comes to our to our courthouse what was what's been happening to somebody there you guys need to find out if that story's true about the young man that's being terrorized and if if our commonwealth attorney if she's not doing her job somebody better find out and do something about it oh i forgot you can only harass somebody that wants to adopt a child but you can't put our government on call for terrorizing somebody in isolation

[00:46:11] when are we going you guys you guys support terrorists and you support satan when are we going to put america first when are we going to put our constitution first and you know what you all make me sick. You got me started. I saw that meeting. I saw how you spoke, and oh, and you went and gave kudos to this staff that has been terrorizing us, these supervisors. They don't care

[00:46:45] about us. They care about their pockets. Thank you very much, next speaker. I apologize, Mr. Gloss. I couldn't make out your last name, so I mispronounced it. It's all right. I'm Oloss today. Alan Gloss, Coles District.

[00:47:01] Hey, I want to talk to you about an email that came out today. I don't know if all of you saw it, but it was by someone that speaks here regularly, a guy named Bill Wright. He did a deep dive on last week's meeting and who came up to speak about in support of the data center industry.

[00:47:21] I wasn't going to talk about it today, but it's clear by the speakers that we may have an issue that I want to bring up to your attention. So Mr. Wright's article did a deep dive on who these people were and what their relationships were with a former supervisor and applicants and people involved in the data center industry.

[00:47:44] I will tell you, what he uncovered is pretty troubling to me, and it should be to you, too. The fact that we had people from outside of the county speaking during resident time, specifically Brooke Turner of Brooke Turner Realty, another data center pusher.

[00:48:03] She lives out in Fakir County, but she was the fifth speaker on the residence list. You have someone that came from Pennsylvania and said that he lived in Gainesville. Matter of fact, a lot of people said that they lived in Gainesville, and I think that the tagline was, I'm a business owner in Gainesville.

[00:48:22] You know, folks that have been out here long enough to know, it wasn't a Teresa Minns or a Laney Schlossberg. These were people that we never saw before, no one that was ever engaged with the county before. Now, why are they doing that? Well, they're manufacturing support for something that the county residents don't want, and I think it's incumbent upon the board to recognize that.

[00:48:43] we had a guy who claimed to have been from the lake jackson community association and you know we talked to lake jackson community association like we don't know who that person is and he's never represented us and matter of fact he does not speak for us um and we've been we've gone on record to say that we weren't supportive of the data center industry but that man said you know the board voted and they said get that data center in here and tax it up that's what that man said um who knows who that guy is i don't know who he is but he doesn't represent the lake jackson Community Association, according to them. I just think that it's important for you to recognize

[00:49:22] that we have manufactured outrage and we have manufactured support coming in here trying to get you to do their bidding for them. Now, we can go all the way back to 2020 when Kenny Bode's Commie Kids came in here and they attacked Supervisor Vega. You know, I don't know if you remember that, but, you know, it was a session on, you know, how much profanity we can throw out at one person. But they were being paid to be there by CASA. CASA took lots of money from them. So how much money were those speakers last week getting paid? I don't know. But I can tell

[00:49:58] you, I think it's something that you should look at and that you should identify and ask people to identify a fiduciary industry. Thank you, Mr. Gloss. Thank you. All right. Next speaker, please. Good afternoon. My name is Kate Smiley. Not a resident. Good to see you all again.

[00:50:20] I'm speaking today on behalf of the Data Center Coalition, or DCC. We're a membership organization, including many of the county's leading data center owners and operators. We just want to register our concerns once more on board item 7A to eliminate the Data Center Opportunity Zone Overlay District and change the use permissions for data centers in specified zoning districts.

[00:50:42] We believe that this will have a significant detrimental impact on the future of data center development in the county, well as on existing facilities and sites currently in process. We agree with many of the issues raised by county staff in their analysis, including the issue of uncertainty. The overlay district and accompanying zoning ordinance provisions provide a certain level of predictability, which is crucial given the substantial capital investment and time required to cite and develop these projects.

[00:51:12] We also have grave concerns regarding the proposal to require a special use permit for data centers in the specified districts. As staff indicated, enacting such a drastic change over such a wide-ranging area will render many data centers legally non-conforming uses, which will, at the very least, if not completely terminate the ability of those facilities to grow and adapt based on market conditions and to increase efficiencies. The draft provisions also imperil the many projects that currently are pending or are in process in those zoning districts, raising uncertainty as to their legal status that could be both costly and time-consuming

[00:51:47] for all parties to resolve. While we agree that there are important and complicated issues to discuss with respect to the overlay district and data center development more broadly in the county, we respectfully submit that the Data Center Overlay Advisory Group, or DCOAG, is the correct forum for these discussions. One of the DCOAG's greatest strengths is that it brings together the various key stakeholders from the public sector, the citizenry, and industry to tackle these weighty issues. Additionally, the county has already invested significant time and financial resources in the DCOAG, which has now retained consultants for a noise ordinance review and is working with

[00:52:25] a consultant on a task order contract for a zoning ordinance and DCSM review. We respectfully ask that the board allow for the DCOAG to complete its work so that the board's decision regarding the future of the overlay district and data center development in the county can be informed by the results of dc oag's extensive deliberations thank you very much for your time thank you next speaker hi everyone uh keith harney cloud hq nice to be back so here we are i guess again to talk about

[00:53:03] something that's near and dear to cloud hq cloud hq has been in oh let me start off with a non-resident But we're a business resident, and we have been in Prince William Investing since 2007 for our first campus and 2017 for our second campus.

[00:53:23] We are a data center builder, owner, and operator. We have three existing data centers right now, and we have seven more to go. We happen to be right next to the airport. It's safe to say that that makes us a good neighbor for the airport.

[00:53:42] We end up, from an employment point of view, we always focus on that, but from an employment point of view and from a labor point of view, each job is well over 1,000 people per job. Wages that would then multiply into the community could be over $150 million per building, which then multiplies into the general economy.

[00:54:06] I think that we've been in the overlay from the beginning. I think what's being considered is a rule change. Our investments take forever, and it's a huge capital investment. We're in the rental business.

[00:54:22] We rent our space. It takes us a lot of effort to get our customers lined up. So any sort of uncertainty will slow this down or will impair it. So from a tax point of view, I know that's really meaningful, But the way I look at it is the potential revenue that will come from an area that, candidly, would have been hard for almost any other use besides data centers, when built out, should be approaching $90 million.

[00:54:49] That's recurring revenue, escalating, and that's built on something that would be long-term leases to investment-grade tenants that I think the county could rely upon. So I think it's, I guess I'll just leave it because it seems like so much has been said that's very favorable, but I'll leave it with this is we oppose and would appreciate your consideration of that.

[00:55:13] Thank you. Before the next speaker, I want to call up my final five. Juan Pimentel Otero, Tony Esteve, Don Slaman, Patrick Ford, and Kesey Reed. My phone thought I was talking to her. You may go, sir.

[00:55:41] Hi, good afternoon. My name is Brian Mazzella. I am with Crane Service Company, and I am a fourth-generation crane operator. We are opposed to any changes to this overlay district.

[00:55:57] I can speak about the employees and team that we have built here, much of whom now reside in Prince William County, as we have been able to move a base of operations here as well. As I said, I am fourth-generation with this company, It was founded by my great-uncle back in 1926, so we are very fortunate and very happy to be here in Prince William County now and very fortunate to be able to partner with Cloud HQ, in fact, one of their first builds over by the airport that was already spoken of.

[00:56:35] We are proud to partner with them. I would like to just mention one family that has been with our family at Crane Service. It goes back to when my grandfather came back from World War II, and he took over operations, and he needed somebody to help him on the financial side, and he was fortunate to find a resident here from Prince William County, Tom Lemon.

[00:57:02] And today, I can proudly say we not only have Tom Lemon's son working for us, but also his grandson working for us, running equipment on many of these data centers that we're talking about. We were able to move out here because of the consistency of the data center market.

[00:57:20] While much of the economy and construction elsewhere in the DMV has slowed, this has been one bright shining star in what we do in building, lifting, transporting heavy things that are used in these data centers. So I ask that you consider the residents who are here that are working.

[00:57:39] we are one of the companies. We are a family of 200 at our company that does not support any changes to this overlay, as already stated. Thank you again for your time. Thank you, next speaker. Good afternoon. My name is Juan Pimentel-Otero. I'm an entrepreneur, a veteran, and the principal owner of Gahotix, a service-disabled veteran-owned business. Gahotix is a newly launched company that helps organizations navigate the AI data center's ecosystem by providing strategic capabilities that that drive results. While I do not live in this great county, but rather in neighboring Loudoun

[00:58:17] County, I am looking to expand my business into Prince William, given how many great innovative data center companies you've attracted. When I was looking to establish chaotics, I specifically located here in Northern Virginia because it is home to such a critical piece of the world's digital infrastructure. As a service disabled veteran, I also opted to put down route to Northern Virginia because of its strong support system for veterans. Not many places can accommodate my specific service background.

[00:58:44] The combination of data center growth and veteran support is unique to this area. Please keep it that way. To close, I respectfully ask that you vote against any efforts to roll back the data center opportunity zone over Lake District. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you. Next speaker.

[00:59:05] My name is Kayisa Reed. I am a data center employee with CloudHQ. Wear my jacket proudly. I live in Manassas City, so we're right next door. I've seen the growth of the industry from ground up. I'm going to speak to you on a personal level.

[00:59:20] Having spent 17 years commuting to and from D.C., finding a place here that employed me with a competitive salary and improved my mental health, improved my ability to spend time with my family, attend my children's events, that is something that you don't see a lot of employees in this area be able to provide.

[00:59:41] The course of living in our communities has increased significantly, so being able to keep up with that and still have a good life, it's important to have those kind of employees, employers in this area. CloudHQ is definitely a step above of work for property management companies all throughout northern Virginia and D.C. area, and as a data center, they are choosing to be very conscious of the needs of the community as well as their employees, and I think that's the kind of what you want here.

[01:00:09] You want that kind of person that's going to be responsible, that company that's going to look into the community and see and also hire from the community. So I am against you guys changing anything out that's going to inhibit them from continuing to grow, which also, you know, on a personal hamper my ability to grow.

[01:00:26] And just on a side note, I don't want to be that parent that has to explain to my kids why all of their, you know, gaming systems go down or their phone is not working or they can't get whatever pictures they put into the cloud. And I don't think people understand that as that grows, AI grows and everything grows, you need some place to house that, and that is what we do.

[01:00:45] And we do it in a way that is respectful, and we want to continue doing that. So please, be very, very conscious in your decision about changing anything that establishes our ability to keep growing. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker. Good afternoon, Board of County Supervisors.

[01:01:04] My name is Patrick Ford, and I'm one of the founding members of GI Johns, actually transitioning our name to Amerikans. We are a service-disabled, veteran-owned small business, providing sanitation services to the mission-critical data center industry, headquartered in Manassas, Virginia. From the start, in September 2020, when my best friend and I from the Marine Corps started G.I. Johns, our mission has been twofold.

[01:01:27] It has defined our why. First, we aim to hire as many veterans as possible from the communities we serve right now. Right now, G.I. Johns has 35 employees who live in Prince William County. Seven of them are veterans. Two of them, I can swear to you on my life that we have saved from the proverbial edge. Our second mission is to support Gold Star families, meaning the immediate family member of a fallen service member who has died in combat. How are we working towards that

[01:02:06] second piece of our mission? A portion of the profits of every portable restroom that you see from G.I. Johns throughout Prince William County is donated to support Gold Star families. Dave Stewart was the son of Prince William County. He was the son of the United States. Dave was killed of me, September 20th, 2014 in Helmand Province, Afghanistan, left behind a wife and two kids, Marshall and McKinsey. Their college occasion will not have to be worried about because a portion of the profits from toilets from data centers in Prince William County has reconciled that invoice.

[01:02:44] It's the local businesses like G.I. John's that are the backbone of this community, and we are proud to partner with the data center industry to work towards achieving that unique mission. We hope to be able to continue to grow here in Prince William County so that G.I. John's can continue serving, sending the county's Gold Star children like Marshall McKenzie Stewart to college and they don't have to worry about tuition. Please consider GI John's mission as you vote this afternoon. Appreciate your time. Thank you. Next speaker. Good afternoon. My name

[01:03:22] is Tony Esteve. I'm a business development manager for Resident Electric. We are a national electrical contractor in 11 states, 21 markets. We've been operating in Virginia since 2010. We have about 1,500 employees in Virginia. The data center business is a big part of what we do. However, we've done a lot of government work and a lot of health care work as well. We were the electrician down the road on the Hayden Hill facility for Kaiser Permanente, and we've done numerous other smaller jobs here in the county. Currently, we have four data center projects in the county.

[01:03:57] Each of them have just about 100 electricians on them. The data center industry has obviously They've been very, very good for us as electricians, you know, notwithstanding some of the concerns of the community. I'm a Northern Virginia native.

[01:04:13] I lived in Prince William County from 2002 to 2005, but I've represented this area in the electrical contracting space for about 25 years. We do a lot with the community, especially engaging and hiring folks into the trades.

[01:04:33] We partner with the Prince William County Public Schools to bring in summer helpers. Generally, these are rising seniors before they're graduating from high school really to get a taste of the electrical trade to see if it's something for them. They come and they work in our warehouse in the summer, see if they can wake up at five or six in the morning and really work with their hands right alongside apprentices.

[01:04:54] It puts a lot of people in very good-paying jobs. We are a partner with the IBEW. My friend Don here is going to speak to you next, but we are the largest IBEW partner contractor in the country. business standpoint, many of our partners in the data center world need stability. That's why we're asking you to oppose the zoning language changes. Prince William County has historically in this region been a very difficult county to work with against some of the peers. We're seeing some of the industry leapfrog this county and going down to central Virginia and Richmond, Virginia and

[01:05:31] over the river to Maryland. A big part of that is the concerns and the question mark from the the local government and the planning authorities as to what can be built and where it can be built and that's a challenge and it's at the end of the day going to be harmful for the residents so appreciate appreciate your time thank you and our final speaker in person good afternoon chair jefferson and board members my name is don slayman i work for the ibw local 26 electricians union i live in alexander virginia raised in annandale virginia just wanted to speak to

[01:06:09] workforce development and what the data center industry means to our local union. 45% of the construction of a data center is electrical work, and then that's very important to us, but what's really important to us and why we oppose 7A changes to the overlay district is that once a data center is completed, we have on any given day six to seven contractors who work in those buildings doing maintenance work.

[01:06:34] One of the misnomers of the industry is that very few people work in them when they're done and completed, and that's because the way the state counts permanent jobs and counts jobs, they only count the jobs of the end user, but the end user only has very few people. They don't touch the equipment.

[01:06:49] They don't touch the continuous operating system we do, and so they point it out to our contracts. We come in and make the repairs, the swapping of the components or the racks or the servers, but what's also important for us and why we're so adamantly opposed to this change is that because this industry is centered in northern Virginia, it's created economies of scale so that we actually have production shops.

[01:07:17] All of our major contractors, like Rosenden and others, have these production shops where they do a lot of prefab and modular work for the data centers, and we're exporting this all over the country, even some overseas. And so to be able to create those kind of high-value production jobs, it's very rare.

[01:07:34] I spent the last 42 years in the labor movement, the last 25 before I became electricians working for the AFL-CL, the Federation of All Unions, and I watched the de-industrialization of our country, and I watched communities hang on to, and sometimes very poisonous jobs, but factories, mills, and mines all over this country, and all I could do is go in there and organize the other workers in town to feel the pain of the people losing their jobs, and some of these towns, that was the only real employer they had, I saw all this dislocation, and so to see this kind of growth now that this industry has provided is amazing.

[01:08:11] My local union has doubled in the last six years since I arrived here, and it's because of the data center industry. Usually when interest rates go up and commercial construction comes down, we would have folks on the bench looking for work. We've gained 770 members since January 1st, and that's because of this data center industry.

[01:08:29] That's how important it is to this local union. And we have over 900 members now living in Prince William County. And so those folks are recycling tax dollars. It's just, and I've seen the way this industry behaves. They actually are helping us with the help of supervisors and others, but they are helping us get rid of wage theft, which is endemic in the construction industry.

[01:08:50] This high-end user is actually setting standards in the construction industry that don't exist in other segments of the electrical and construction industry. By the way, they are working with general contractors to eliminate independent contractors on the job. Thank you so much. Thank you.

[01:09:06] We are now done with in-person comments. We're going to go to remote comments. Ms. Madden, do we have anyone signed up online? All right, then I'll turn over to Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Madden, thank you. Ms. Van, shall we begin? Yes, we have one non-resident speaker for this public comment time, and his name is Jim Carroll.

[01:09:26] Thank you. Please proceed, Mr. Carroll. Thank you very much. Madam Chair and esteemed members of the board, my name is Jim Carroll. I'm the Director for Environment and Land with Wholesome Mid-Atlantic Region. The reason I'm speaking today is we have concerns with the proposed zoning text amendment for the Data Center Opportunity Zone Overlay District in Prince William County.

[01:09:51] As a global leader in building materials and solutions and the foremost cement producer in the United States, Wholesome is actively engaged in the construction landscape of Prince William County. We operate two concrete batch plants in Manassas, one on Old Compton Road in the Gainesville District, and another over in the Broad Run Industrial Park in the Brentville District.

[01:10:13] These plants cater to diverse building projects across industrial, commercial, transportation, and residential sectors. Aligned with our commitment to corporate responsibility, Wholesome prioritizes initiatives aimed at mitigating our environmental footprint and promoting sustainability in our operations.

[01:10:33] Given that nearly 40% of global CO2 emissions stem from building, construction, and operation, with 30% occurring during the building phase, our industry shoulders a significant responsibility in combating climate change. In pursuit of this goal, Wholesome has spearheaded the development of EcoPact low-carbon concrete, a testament to our dedication to pioneering solutions for net-zero construction.

[01:10:59] By blending innovative designs with rigorous research and development, EcoPact offers a comprehensive suite of low-carbon concrete products that meet the stringent performance standards demanded by our industry. Furthermore, Wholesome actively collaborates with various data center projects where the adoption of low-carbon concrete materials can markedly diminish the environmental impact of such ventures.

[01:11:25] Wholesome urges the Board of County Supervisors to reconsider the proposed text amendment to the Data Center Opportunity Zone overlay district. The existing overlay district has proven instrumental in channeling development towards areas supported by adequate infrastructure, furnishing developers with a sense of certainty crucial for making substantial capital investments.

[01:11:47] Any modifications to this framework jeopardizes certainty and casts doubts on the county's commitment to fostering new economic ventures that yield direct and indirect benefits for the community. It's worth noting that the substantial contributions of data centers to local communities.

[01:12:03] In Virginia alone, the data center industry generated 86,000 jobs in 2021, marking a notable 32% increase from 2017. Preserving the current overlay zone district ensures the continued attraction of data center projects to Prince William County, thereby underpinning a stable and predictable tax base.

[01:12:25] The ripple effects of data center activities extend to supporting small businesses in the county, whether through direct involvement or by virtue of their associations with ancillary service providers. We emphasize the importance of striking a balance between economic progress and environmental stewardship.

[01:12:42] Thank you for attention to this matter. Thank you, sir, for your comments. And Ms. Vann, just to confirm that was our only speaker for this afternoon's session. That's correct. Thank you so much for your assistance. Back to you, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you so very much.

[01:12:58] We're going to move on to Agenda Item 5, and it is county attorney's time. Mr. Shorter, the floor. I'm sorry. It is county executive's time. Looking at the wrong. Item 4. Mr. Shorter, the floor is now yours. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, members of the board.

[01:13:13] I want to make a few announcements and acknowledgments, and then we will turn to Item 4A and 4B as is posted on the agenda. First, I want to recognize and thank our facility and fleet management department for completing the process of becoming a Virginia Values Veterans, or V3 program certified agency.

[01:13:38] We've heard it today and some of the comments made in the importance of us valuing our veterans and making opportunities for our veterans and their spouses to be employed and work with our government.

[01:13:53] And so being a V3 certified employer really opens the door for resources to recruit, hire, and retain veterans and their spouses. So really just want to appreciate our FFM team for the great work that they did creating those opportunities and becoming a certified agency.

[01:14:15] I also want to recognize our Department of Public Works, who, along with Micron Technology, were recently honored with a silver medal for the 2024 Governor's Environmental Excellence Awards.

[01:14:31] This is for their work related to the Neabsco Creek Bandalong Litter Trap Project. As many of you know, that device really supports the Neabsco Creek in collecting trash within the creek. to date, since it was installed in November of 2021, collected 25,000, just about 25,000 unique pieces of plastic, along with 8,000, over 8,000 plastic bottles. Really a good example of what it

[01:15:05] means to partner with private sector to really reach our sustainability goals. So just want to acknowledge the Public Works team for the great work that they have done. Last week, I sent the board a few memos, one I wanted to highlight about the state budget and its impact on the Prince William County budget.

[01:15:29] As mentioned, really just want to appreciate our state delegation for their advocacy and the governor for the investment in Prince William County through the biennium budget. As mentioned in the memo, the details of the budget are still trickling in, and we will provide additional updates agency by agency as we are clear how those funds will impact the agency's budget.

[01:16:01] I want to make sure that I mention the email I sent out also to the board regarding the recommendations associated with the business barrier study and action plan. The information outlined what we have done to date and continue to do to meet those recommendations.

[01:16:23] Certainly available to answer any questions about the recommendations. In addition to those specific recommendations, I've asked our procurement office to dedicate resources to helping businesses navigate the procurement process with our county. And to that end, our office of procurement, Fortunately, we'll be hosting its inaugural Procurement Expo this Thursday, June 13th, in our plaza.

[01:16:48] A real opportunity for businesses, vendors who want to do business with our government, to interact with our departments. We opened up registration, and in about a week of opening up registration, 250 vendors signed up.

[01:17:03] So we are long overdue for this kind of engagement with vendors interested in doing business. And so I just want to thank, recognize the procurement team and thank them for all the work that they have done to make the Expo happen and look forward to all that will happen from it.

[01:17:23] I just want to remind the board and certainly our viewers that our Office of Community Safety is looking for volunteers for the Community Safety Advisory Committee. Those who are interested should complete that interest form by June 14th.

[01:17:39] So we're looking for those who are interested to do that really in the next few days. Finally, and certainly not least, I want to take a few minutes, and we heard a bit of this today during public comment time. Maybe we could start.

[01:18:02] All right. No, no problem. Actually, maybe we should just push it. I'll say really quickly that this is a really good example of what it means for our government to focus on young people. We talked about our apprenticeship and our internship programs, FFM in particular, and I really want to just acknowledge them for the work that they've done.

[01:18:25] We're going to see a bit of that here in highlighting some young people who have taken advantage of the program, but just really wanted to give the board an opportunity to see directly what this program means, not just for the young people but for our organization as we recruit and retain them.

[01:18:42] So, Nicky, please.

[01:19:34] Originally, I was supposed to be doing college, so I was going to go to Nova, and then I realized it's kind of not what I wanted to do.

[01:19:56] I wanted to do more hands-on work, so I looked around, and it just so happened that my prior construction teacher got a job for the county as the coordinator for the apprenticeship program, and he gave me an offer to try it out as the first apprentice, and I thought it would be a great idea.

[01:20:18] So I tried it out, and here we are. My name is Ethan Reyes. I was an intern with FFM. So I was a junior at Colgan High School, and I'm a part of Colgan's NHB student chapter. So through that, I heard about the internship with FFM, and I thought that it would be a good idea to kind of see what the kind of career or adjacent careers that I was interested in to see how they worked in real-life situations and just to see if I could learn just a little bit more about it.

[01:20:50] My name is Jeanne Blair and I'm an intern with FFM. I think it definitely gave me a lot of advantages with definitely the experience part because a lot of my peers, like, they know what they want to do and they're just like, oh, I'll worry about, you know, focusing on what specifically I want to do, like, later in college or later after college.

[01:21:09] But I was able to firsthand see exactly what I could be doing in a couple of years And that's something a lot of people my age don't get to do or will never be able to do. And that's definitely something that I'm grateful that I was able to do. My name is Jose Sarabia. I'm a fleet specialist assistant at Fleet Facilities Management.

[01:21:29] I was in an automotive program at C.D. Hilton High School and received an email about this job position. I was taught how to work on ambulances, the light system, the emergency lights, and basic maintenance and repair.

[01:21:46] What motivated me the most was that I really liked doing that, and I saw the idea of working on a police car or an ambulance really, really interesting. Working with the county made me feel good because we could see what all the behind-the-scenes work did to really help improve public life that most people don't even think about.

[01:22:10] It's very rewarding to see that my work in the county has transferred to other county workers and their ability to help out other people in the county. A message I'd give to anyone thinking about joining this internship is definitely do it.

[01:22:25] You're not going to have the same opportunity or the same experience to be able to do this most likely ever in your life. And being able to see these people work their jobs and see their day-to-day life is a really good way to kind of know what to expect.

[01:22:43] If there was something I would tell myself, it would be to apply for this internship sooner. The way that students can find more information about this is visiting their website. Go to the county website, look for Facilities and Fleet Management. If you're in high school, I'm in schools every week, so if I have a table set up or come and do a career exploration, that's the time to be able to meet me as well.

[01:23:05] See yourself here. See yourself here at Prince William County. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Just really wanted to show this to the board and to the public.

[01:23:22] We have seen hundreds, really thousands of young people over the last few weeks graduate from Prince William County high schools, and many of them will go off to college. Some of them will not, and we are excited about opportunities with our county, an opportunity to keep those young people here in Prince William.

[01:23:43] So thank you to FFM, all the work that you've done to grow the program and inspire young people. That said, Madam Chair, I want to turn to item 4A and ask for the board's consideration before we turn to 4B. Hold on. Supervisor Angry had a quick.

[01:24:00] Sure. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just real quick, on the community initiative volunteer fill-out form, are you going to wait until you get all of the applications in before you contact, reach back out to anyone that currently has signed up?

[01:24:15] Correct. So we'll wait until after June 14th to start reaching out. That's really good because I don't know if any other supervisor had anybody fill out, but there was a question of they filled it out and hadn't heard back, So I'll just let them know, they'll hear back from you after the application process closes.

[01:24:34] Yes. Okay, thank you. All right, thank you very much. Ask for the board's consideration for item 4A before we move on to 4B. So moved, Madam Chair. Second. All right, discussion. Madam Chair. Supervisor Vega.

[01:24:52] Weir, and then Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just looking for some transparency here. This was an item that was brought to us a few weeks ago, And it was very evident that there was not a unanimous support for the indoor track facility. But now we see here, when we actually open it up, that this is for an indoor sports complex in the Occoquan District.

[01:25:13] It does say the possible construction. Now, when you, Madam Chair, moved for us to purchase the property, you indicated that you thought it would be a good idea to have it. But there was no specificity as to the intended purpose of purchasing this land.

[01:25:28] And I guess now we're here. So is this going to be for that original purpose or not is my question. All right. For me, this is for the land. And we had discussed this, I believe, in closed session. The issue was, were we supposed to vote on it?

[01:25:44] At the time, we didn't think we, because of the discussion we had in closed session, it turns out we do need to have a public discussion and vote on the land. Now, what is this land used for? It could be used for a number of things. You know, if we choose not to move forward with the indoor sports complex, there are other things that we can look at for the land.

[01:26:02] I see it as a strategic purchase, and so. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I do appreciate that. But, again, I'll go back to our resolution where it specifically and clearly states for the possible construction of an indoor sports and events facility, and it doesn't mention any other possible uses. Am I not reading this correctly, or are there other possible uses in the resolution that haven't been identified?

[01:26:22] You can update. I'm sorry. Madam Chair, members of the board, I apologize. That first whereas clause is just referencing the November 28th, 2023 resolution. And that old resolution did identify it as the possible. The discussion that the board had, and for clarification, it was an open session.

[01:26:41] It wasn't in closed session with regards to the moving forward with regards to this. And as you see in the now therefore be it resolved clause, it does not reference what it would be used for. That first whereas clause was just by way of past history.

[01:27:00] Thank you. I appreciate the clarification. All right. If you're done, then Supervisor Weir, then Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I made this pretty clear at the last meeting, and I'm not going to support it. This is simply compounding expenditures based on an ill-conceived proposal that was delineated at the end of the last Board's term.

[01:27:24] Throwing more good money after bad brings to mind innovation. I mean, was that really smart to buy that much property and have that white elephant hanging around our necks for as long as it has? You know, it's $15.5 million.

[01:27:40] We've got a lot of needs in this county. And engaging in land speculation at this level really doesn't sit well with me. I think the problem that I principally have with this is a 150-day study period initiated at the very end of the last board terms, and now we're stuck with it.

[01:28:00] We've already lost a half a million dollars, and this, by all appearances, seems to be simply maintaining artificial respiration for the indoor track project. This isn't the way we should be doing business, and I'm simply not going to support it.

[01:28:19] Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I would actually argue that buying land innovation was a good idea by the county. It allowed us to have bioscience facilities. It allowed us to have incubators. allow us to have a whole host of possibilities and potentials there that we may not have had otherwise so I have been a fan of looking at us buying land as a county for quite some time the price of land has not gone down over the years and it has allowed us to have some flexibility and opportunities that we not we may not have had otherwise that said I'm not going to come out here and say hey I'm walking away from the indoor sports complex I still believe in the

[01:28:57] project however regardless of what we end up doing with this land it's in a key and very strategic part of the county happens to be in my district but it also happens to be next to one of the largest commuter lots in the county in the region happens to be next to a lot of high high-end retail shops grocery there are a lot of amenities in this area and it's just a stone's throw away from from Potomac Mills it's also next to HOV lanes there is mass transit here and we're also looking in as a county to put in a transit hub here uh in the future so no matter how you look at the use of this area whether it's going to be indoor sports complex a mixed-use town center as

[01:29:35] prescribed by the landing small area plan this board adopted before this board took our seats or whatever else you're looking to use it for buying land and controlling land is a key part of making sure that this county's vision is secure and so i'll be supporting this thank you madam chair all right there's no one else in the queue so quickly um supervisor vega um this question is for the county attorney so if my colleagues did not object to me recommending that we strike that portion of the whereas clause would that be something that this board could do and it would

[01:30:10] be striking the the language that i referenced in the first whereas clause the phrase for the possible construction of an indoor sports and events facility yes there's legally no reason why you can't strike that phrase. Madam Chair, I would support this resolution if my colleagues agree to striking that language. Is that a friendly amendment? Yes. I accept. All right, see no other comments. Let's vote. Supervisor Franklin, can I please have a voice vote? Aye.

[01:30:42] Thank you. Motion passes 6 to 2. Supervisor Weir and Gordy voting nay. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, for your consideration there. I'd like to now move to 4B and really want to just in advance of Deputy County Executive Elijah Johnson starting.

[01:31:08] Thank him, really, and the entire project action team who's been working on addressing panhandling for all the work that they've done to get to this point. What I hope you will see in these slides is a real focus on results in a multi-agency approach to dealing with this issue.

[01:31:29] So with that, I'll turn it over to our Deputy County Executive. Thank you, Mr. Shorter. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the board. I'm excited to be here today. It's been a while since I've been in front of you, but glad to be here to talk about this exciting project that that path that we're on addressing panhandling. I'm here today to present the CXO's policy response to your directive for the county to look at how do we come up with creative ways to address panhandling in our community. This is our agenda for the day. We want to talk about our process action team we put together.

[01:32:06] Also talk about who's responsible for implementing these projects as we get directional approval from you today. I also want to talk about the why and the how of how we're going to be addressing panhandling. And then talk about these three next items, our strategic areas that we're going to be focusing on as we talk about this afternoon and as we move forward with addressing panhandling.

[01:32:27] I also want to talk about what that vision of success looks like that we want to see at the end of our review period. and then talk about those immediate actions that we're going to be implementing over the next few months. So our process action team, as you see here, we have representatives from over nine agencies that are actively involved in working with me on this project.

[01:32:50] Representation from our communications office, representation from our office of community safety, county attorney's office, community services, Department of Social Services, Ms. Tyranny, also from our Homeless Service Department and Social Services, our Police Department, and Department of Transportation.

[01:33:11] And today we do have, if you're here on the Process Action Team, wave your hand. We have a few people here today that were able to make it. This team has done Yoma's work in addressing this issue. And I know we're showing these teams because they spend the most time on this project, but we have enlisted the support of other parts of our organization as well.

[01:33:32] These nine teams are the core team, but as things come up, we're going to be calling on all of our agencies to participate in this effort. Who's responsible? Of course, the process action team is going to be responsible for implementing our program. I'm going to be accountable for making sure we're getting things done and updating our CXO.

[01:33:52] We're going to continue to consult our CXO in this project. We also have some strategic partners that we are working with, our Continuous Care for Homeless Services. Our chamber, we've been engaged with our chamber. And we've also been engaged with other jurisdictions about what they're doing to address this issue.

[01:34:10] And, obviously, we want to keep you and the citizens informed through the Board of County Supervisors. Our entire cabinet's going to be kept informed. And then our county attorney's office is going to be kept informed to make sure we're legally compliant with everything that we do. The why?

[01:34:25] As we started our research and looked at what other folks were doing and looked at as complaints came in in reference to panhandling from your offices and from the community, we coalesced around these three strategic areas here.

[01:34:41] The first being public safety, those perceptions and concerns from our citizens. You all receive emails. We receive phone calls in reference to differing things. Despite what a lot of data may not show around public safety, especially in our intersections, we get a lot of complaints of near misses at our intersections.

[01:35:00] We get a lot of complaints from folks who are talking about when I'm going grocery shopping, somebody coming up to me at all times of the day or the night. Those are real concerns from our residents. So we wanted to look at what could we do to address those things in our program.

[01:35:15] We're going to be talking about that. Also talking with our folks who are doing outreach currently in our community around homeless services. what are those needs we wanted to focus on how do we address the needs of those folks who are truly in need that are panhandling we've all heard it there are varying reasons why people panhandle everything from mental health services substance abuse services homelessness lack of housing to folks who are just out there because that's what they do um to earn earn income we've heard about all those things but we want to engage with those folks to get a real handle on what that need is and then bring those services to folks who really need them.

[01:35:52] And then we want to change that perception of our community. I was just reading an email from one of the supervisors' offices where a resident was going through the McDonald's line, and they got 5 a.m. in the morning trying to go to work, and somebody came from behind the screen to ask them for money.

[01:36:07] That's unnerving. So we want to change those perceptions. We want to change that negative connotation that comes along with panhandling in our community. So how do we do that? What's the how? We've talked about a lot of different things in our process action team on addressing panhandling and through our research, but we coalesce around these three main areas because one thing alone won't solve it.

[01:36:33] We can't arrest our way out of it. We can't outreach our way out of it. We have to bring a coordinated approach to addressing this issue. So we're going to be talking about these three elements, first around coordinated outreach and community response. We're going to be talking about public engagement, that communication aspect, and how do we engage that part of our community that are giving to panhandlers.

[01:36:55] We're also going to talk about, once we do those things, to start to reduce panhandling, how do we get those folks engaged with meaningful employment? So we're going to talk about that. So let's go. Coordinated response. We've been doing outreach in our county through homeless services for quite some time, but we wanted to make a targeted approach when they start to address panhandling.

[01:37:16] So we work with our police department, we work with our homeless services folks, and we've identified 16 predominant locations where we receive the most complaints about. So we're going to be doing targeted outreach to those 16 locations as we kick off our program to gather information, I think, to supervise the facts.

[01:37:35] What is the data? What's out there? What do we know about what's going on? So this is going to give us an opportunity, as you see in the column three here, where our staff, as we engage with folks, we're going to be how many people that we observe at any given time at these locations. How many people are willing to come in for services?

[01:37:52] How many are not willing to come in for services? What type of services those folks need that are out there panhandling that are willing to receive services? More importantly, what are those safety issues that we are observing as we are out engaging with this population of folks in our community?

[01:38:07] And then, based on that information, what are the needed responses that mean additional things we need to do to start to address these issues? So we're going to be gathering that data over the course of the next year and doing that targeted outreach because that's going to inform what we're doing.

[01:38:22] You've seen some of that already through our easy street, at our food line in the Occoquan district, where we identified an issue, we got a complaint. We may have went out as outreach for homeless services through DSS, but we immediately see we needed to bring in other partners.

[01:38:40] Or we engaged with our Office of Community Safety, where they had to engage with our state partners, our other local partners to address those issues. So as we go out and collect data and we identify the severity of those issues, we may need to bring in other resources, other support to address that.

[01:38:58] And that's that key coordinated response that we have developed here unique to Prism County. And what are we going to do? How are we going to evaluate ourselves? In each of these areas we're going to talk about, we have sub-teams out of that collective group, the process action team that's going to be working on each area.

[01:39:17] They're going to be reviewing these things every 30 days. Every 90 days, we're going to be coming back together as a process action team to say, hey, what's the impact? Are we making progress? What are the things? Do we need to make changes in our approach of what we're doing? So it's going to be a constant evaluation of what we're doing, how effective this has been, And so we can plan as we move forward throughout the year.

[01:39:41] Public engagement. One of the things is we looked at different approaches is, and you've seen it, everybody, we've talked about science, we've talked about different things. The one thing that was constant was we haven't seen programs that actually focus on the person who's in the car or the person who is coming out of the store and that person who's compassionate.

[01:40:04] We've all been there. At some point in our lives, we may not, I'm not going to ask anybody to raise your hands, but we have given to somebody who we thought was in need. We don't want to change that person and that mindset of anybody who wants to support a person in need. We want to have that person give in a different way.

[01:40:22] We have a lot of organizations that come to you all for support throughout the year for their initiatives and their well-needed programs and services. We want to change the mind of that giver to say, hey, give in a different way. One of the things that we learn in talking to our homeless services folks and talking to our folks who have come through our system, One of our clients said, and it has stuck with me today, he said, hey, I panhandled.

[01:40:46] And it was great getting that 5, 10, 15, 20, more than that, that day. But not until I had an organization come to me that offered services that had changed my life. And that has stuck with us to say, hey, well, how do we make sure that the people that are providing the services that these folks need are well-funded?

[01:41:09] And so we are going to be talking about a Give Local PwC campaign that we're going to be launching. so that we get folks to give local to these organizations directly to them to support the work that they're doing. We're going to be developing a website through the Office of Communication that is going to be available to residents who I want to give, and we've linked, first we're starting with our partners who are with our continuum of care.

[01:41:36] Those organizations are going to be listed. The residents will be giving directly to those organizations, not to the county. We're just providing the vehicle for them to get to those organizations to learn more about what they do. And if somebody says, I go there, I'm not familiar with these organizations.

[01:41:52] Also, we have a partner at the table, the Alliance of Greater Prince William. They have a community fund. And if somebody's not sure where they want to give or what they can give to the alliance to support their community fund, and then in turn, they will issue out funding notifications, similar to what we're doing with them now through the CARES Act money, through the ARPA money.

[01:42:13] They are that organization that can then take that funds and then reallocate them to other organizations because they are not a service provider, and they have that set up. We're going to have a toolkit, and we're going to show you some examples of what that toolkit is. Anyone who wants to, any organization who wants to download materials about our program to help promote our program, we're going to make those materials available to them.

[01:42:38] And through the Office of Communications, develop a fantastic video. If we have time today, we'll show that video so that you can see what that campaign looks like in action. We talked about the video. If we have time, we'll show it to you.

[01:42:55] But I know we want to get through some things today. This is an example of social media examples of what will be posted out there, how folks will be able to see things and be able to connect with us. Just imagine, as the slide shows, if we had someone to give $10 every time.

[01:43:12] Give an example. My family was going out to dinner a few weeks ago. Small restaurant, off the beaten path, not busy. And before we went in a restaurant, somebody approached us. Do you have $5 or $10 that you can help me with?

[01:43:28] That tells me and reinforced that folks are giving at that level. What if we have folks give that $10 to an organization? And then if we have over 10,000 people do the same thing, that force multiplier of resources going into our community, back into organizations can be tremendous.

[01:43:48] So I'm hopeful to set a goal that we can raise a million dollars in a year through this effort so that folks can then, so that those organizations who need that discretionary funding can do the creative things that they do and provide services. This is another example.

[01:44:04] One of the other unique things that we're doing that other folks don't do is that we're going to provide a means for citizens when they observe panhandling or issues, they can call in, leave a message. It's not a man number, but it will be responded to by somebody in our homeless services office who will take that information, plug it into our system so that we can go out and investigate what's going on.

[01:44:26] So regular citizens will have the ability to now report to us what they're seeing, what they've observed, and then we can go out and investigate what's going on in that particular area through the telephone number or through an email that we can get from them. These are more examples of posters.

[01:44:43] If somebody wants to download this information and place it in their place of businesses, They can download this. All this information will be available through our website. And, of course, although VDOT doesn't allow us to put signs in the intersections, we can put signs in business areas.

[01:44:59] We can put signs along strategic corridors. So we're going to be looking at, as we approach it, Major Hugar has already made contact with some owners. They just can't wait until we roll this out because they are ready to post things because of the issues they've been having so that they can have a change in their environment.

[01:45:18] So, obviously, we want to engage with our community, but we also want to engage with your officers. We want to make sure that we're communicating with you all about what's happening, what you're seeing. Of course, we're going to ask for resource support. Thank you, Supervisor.

[01:45:35] We're also going to be looking to you for policy guidance. So we're going to be looking for directions this afternoon. If we're on the right track, we want a thumbs up so we can move forward. And messaging. More importantly, messaging. Your citizens contact your officers on a regular basis. How do we work with you to message what we're doing out in a more effective way with your offices?

[01:45:55] And we want to engage with you to do that. We want to continue to engage our business community, working with our chamber and their partners so that we can get this information out. We want them to support our organizations that are in the community through their philanthropic efforts so that we can increase things there.

[01:46:11] Work with us as we work with businesses to do safety evaluations to make sure that their business is safe for customers coming in and buying their goods and services. We want to make sure we're engaged with our community partners that is doing the work. Make sure that we track their fundraising efforts as this program rolls out to see what impact we are having and have them work with us in reference to messaging.

[01:46:35] This is an all-hands-on approach that we're taking with our community to address these issues. Again, that review period is that constant review of the information that's coming in to make sure we're making substantive actions happening and we're addressing the issue.

[01:46:51] And if we need to pivot and do something different, we have the information to help us do that. Our employment program. As we looked at this and thought about it, I want to thank the county exec. He said, hey, we can do this. And getting his green light was great because we were like, how do we do this and make it less impactful?

[01:47:11] And in talking with Public Works, talking with Keep Chris being Beautiful, we already have a partner that's doing work in our community now. You all have talked about litter control, and you've been working with the Department of Solid Waste about litter control in our community. You even funded it in your budget, on the previous budget that we adopted.

[01:47:29] We were like, how do we assist in this effort? And we looked at other places that have done this. Fairfax was one of the agencies we brought down, and we talked to them about their Operation Screen Shield program and how it's been working with them. They do litter control. They work with three different shelters up there to provide services.

[01:47:46] Folks come in. The difference that we're going to do, we're not going to hire folks. All these folks will be working for keep Prince William beautiful. We'll provide financial resources, as approved by the board, of course. But we'll provide the resources for them to then employ the folks, and they will work with them, give them training, give them all the safety protocols, make sure they understand the safety protocol, the safety gears.

[01:48:10] We will work with them to make sure the program is operational. And these are the responsibilities of each one of us. Keep this being beautiful. Of course, they're going to be the lead contact and the employer of the other persons who do engage in this program. Social services will be the, we're going to be using our falazzo shelter as the point of pickup for folks who want to work.

[01:48:33] We want to make sure we're dealing with our panhandlers, and we want to catch folks before they start to panhandle and get them engaged with meaningful employment. And our Public Works Solid Waste Department, who is already working with Keep Piers William on these very things, will coordinate what locations they need to be focused on.

[01:48:50] They will coordinate trash pickup, and they will track how many pounds of trash and litter are we collecting through this program. Again, if you'll see a common theme here, we want to review and see how these programs are working to make sure we're being efficient with the residents' resources that are provided to us.

[01:49:09] We talked about that vision of success. Ultimately, we want a reduction in panhandling. We want to see a visible reduction. And panel handed, I would love to see it go to zero. My dream, see it go to zero. We want to see our increased resources, financial resources, going to our community partners so they can do the work so that they're not just relying on our community partner program for assistance in getting the work done.

[01:49:35] We want to improve that perception about our county, what we look like. What type of county are we? We want to make sure that perception changes. And we want to improve safety concerns in our community. We want to make sure, luckily we have not had a lot of accidents at intersections, but we want to make sure we don't have accidents at intersections.

[01:49:54] So by reducing that, we reduce the risk of those things happening. Over the next 90 days, of course, today we're presenting to you these strategies and concepts. We hope to get your approval to move forward. We'll be coming back for authorization to approve any financial resources we need to move this forward in July.

[01:50:16] also get approval. We're going to be prepping to kick things off. So the outreach program is already going on. We're already doing that outreach. We will be finalizing our data collection tools to make sure we have those things in place. We'll be pushing out our communications, our plan to our community. I believe the website is up now. Folks want to go in and just see what it looks like. It's up now. And we'll be engaged with Kim Piersman Beautiful to kick off our unemployment program and we'll do that evaluation piece again as a part of our process so happy to

[01:50:52] discuss these strategies with you in more detail and answer any questions you may have all right first person we have thank you so very much for the presentation we have super yeah people were actually really fast i'm sorry supervisor angry he he he got up in there thank you madam chair i'll start by saying thank you for getting us this far it really sounds to me um the key here It's like what you've got is a lot of heavy marketing campaigns.

[01:51:21] And I have a few questions, so I'm going to ask the questions because I've only got five minutes. And, guys, I've got a lot to talk about because there's just a lot going on here. What we have is panhandling versus homelessness. And so it's the homelessness that's really driving me real crazy.

[01:51:36] And there's a corridor between Gideon and really 95. If you look up to Neosco Mills Road, that corridor is becoming a large problem. It has a heavy influx. Now, much of that is because the PRTC Transit Center is literally right there coming off the old boulevard on the back end.

[01:51:55] So it is a huge problem there now. That's the McDonald's with the young lady who was going to work at 5 in the morning. So that's a problem. So I have a couple questions. As we talk about the homelessness, I know there's so many categories of that. There's people who are homeless who want to be employed.

[01:52:11] There's people who are homeless and don't want to be employed. And there are people who are taking advantage of an opportunity, which I think has created this panhandling situation that we have. So I'll say that. The list of when you said there were 16 locations that you all had identified, and you don't have to answer now because I've got to get through this in three, and then we'll just write them down.

[01:52:30] So one of them is curious, where are those 16 locations? And will we get to see those? I didn't see those in there. And because I want to make sure that location I'm telling you is a part of that list because I think every district in the county has this problem countywide, and we're going to have to address it really district, but it's going to be a county focus because when you talk about resources, I'm willing to spend some resources to do some things even more creative that I'll just bring to you.

[01:52:54] So that's the first question. The second, when you say a litter kind of cleanup crew, that's probably going to be some of the homeless folks working through Keep Prince William Beautiful. My biggest, I just want to make the point of this, my biggest concern is we're going to pay people to clean up the mess they made. I say that Keep Prince William Beautiful does a great job.

[01:53:12] When you look at the hypodermic shelter back in there, that creek back in there, at least every three months, we have to go through there and clean that place out. And you will notice there's a bunch of huge trailers right now sitting around PRTC, right off Dale Boulevard of the interstate.

[01:53:29] It's so much trash. It's literally like four or five of those huge dumpsters, load of trash. We had that brush fire. Anyway, you know the story. I just want to get there. So I'm just curious on that. And then for my, you know, one-eighth, I want to add this as I look at Neopska.

[01:53:45] This seems to be a concentration problem around interstates, you know, and these off-ramps. And like I said, I got a PRTC there. And I know we don't want to just cut down trees for the sake of cutting down trees. But I'm curious, you will see it on some of the interstates when you see, like, down in Orlando, you see they clear out the underbrush and just make it really pretty.

[01:54:04] So the trees are still there and there's still, you know, some greenery. But it's cleared out because one of the things is it's so dense once, you know, it comes out of wintertime. And that's where we're seeing these, you know, these shelters pop up. And so I'm just curious, and I'll even, you know, just talk from the Yapsco, as if we had some type of idea.

[01:54:23] And I want to talk to my, you know, environmentalists first because maybe, you know, clearing that underbrush creates this water runoff, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, I have two problems going on here. One is if you could keep that clear, then it will keep from creating these communities in there. And the other is I understand the environmental impact.

[01:54:40] So if somewhere we could balance the two of those by lightly clearing it to clean it out, these are problems and challenges. And so just, you know, thank you for this, but it's really getting to be a real problem. So now, and I'll stop.

[01:54:56] I got a minute, but I guess you can answer now what I asked just so I don't have to get buzzed out. Thank you, Manager. So, yes, we will be sharing the list privately with you all of those intersections. and, of course, take it in other intersections. I can tell you we've already been out to the site that you mentioned, and we'll continue to monitor that site.

[01:55:16] As reference to paying folks for the trash that they made, this program is geared to do meaningful work. Some of it will be, obviously, depending on the locations that the Solid Waste Division identify, could be locations where that person may have caused an issue.

[01:55:36] I'm not trying to shy away from that. The object is we want to change their mindset. And if we can change their mindset to an employment mindset versus a gift mindset, then we'll start to make a difference in impacting the change in their life.

[01:55:54] As we work with homeless folks, one of the biggest things, especially for folks who've been unsheltered for a long time, is what we call normalcy. It's not normal to them. So how do we work with them to say, hey, it's okay. We're not putting any light on it.

[01:56:10] You've done what you've done. For whatever reason it's caused you to be in this situation, you're here. How do we help you get out of that? How do we help that person make a conscious decision that they're going to change their life? And if I pay them a few dollars to clean up or hide themselves like you give an allowance to your kids, a few dollars to help them change their mindset and now get them on a path to success, I think that investment would be worth it.

[01:56:39] And in reference to the tree, we would have to talk with VDOT and folks who are in to see exactly what can and can be done. And that's something we will have to get back to you. All right. Thank you so much. Supervisor Gordy? I got in early.

[01:56:55] That's good. How long is your video? Sure. Play it. You can have part of my time. Okay. While you're queuing it up, I'll just say thank you while the clock is ticking.

[01:57:17] Want to help panhandlers? Rather than giving money directly to someone panhandling, there are better ways to help. Like don't want to help panhandlers? Rather than giving money directly to someone panhandling, there are better ways to help.

[01:57:37] like donating directly to organizations in the Prince William Area Continuum of Care. These non-profits offer shelter, food, and job training to those in need. So change the way you give. Even small donations to these local organizations can add up to make a big impact.

[01:57:56] In a county of nearly half a million people, if just 10,000 people give $10 a month, that would raise more than $1 million in one year to support those in need. and that money goes directly to helping those community members. You can also help by calling or emailing us with the location of panhandlers so that the county can then provide outreach services and connect them with the necessary resources.

[01:58:20] It doesn't take much to make a true difference. Change the way you give by giving to local nonprofits, and let us know when you see a panhandler so that we can connect them with resources. Together, we can reduce the need for panhandling in our community.

[01:58:36] Thank you. So when you have a hard time solving a problem, sometimes you have to solve the problem next to it. And I really do believe, given the limitations we have from a constitutional perspective, I really do think we have to go after the supply side of this equation. But I think the message has to be stronger because the people who are panhandling in our area are not homeless people.

[01:59:07] They're part of organized rings, and I think we have to make it clear to our community that if you want to truly support homeless, you should give to these organizations because the people who are standing on that street corner, I mean, we've seen the vans come drop these people off and then switch people out during the day.

[01:59:31] that's not homelessness. So I think we have to, you know, as a Christian, you know, we always talk about entertaining angels unaware. And I think what the people need to realize, these aren't angels. And I think we have to make that clear. And I think we have to be very direct in that is that the person that you're giving money to, big chance, they're not homeless. Now, looking at our homeless need, and we've talked, I've talked to Ms. Tierney and her team about this. And every year when that point time survey comes out, we recognize the vast majority of our homeless are

[02:00:08] temporarily homeless. And the reasons for that are domestic abuse. For some, they are aging out of foster care or just getting out of detention. There's joblessness. There's some don't speak English or read. And so when you take a look at putting all those together, you get a vast majority of the homeless, and I think it's, and most of those are temporarily homeless. Those who are long-term, who are chronically homeless, typically have a mental health or a substance

[02:00:44] abuse challenge. So I think as we're communicating this and trying to help people understand that if you're giving money at that street corner, you're actually contributing to a safety problem in our community. And I think helping people understand that, yes, you can truly help homeless people more directly by helping them here, but by doing it through panhandling, you're actually fostering an unsafe environment. You're fostering and supporting organized rings that are not

[02:01:20] affiliated with homeless um and and so um i i i and so the the one question i have on that is what is the paid advertising or does this include radio does it include streaming on or or paid advertisement on streaming apps so that we're getting this message where they are and it's a broadcast message rather than just merely passive on a website so where are the paid advertisements is going and chair members of the board nikki brown director of communications and engagement so

[02:01:55] yes supervisor gordy we've talked about all of those things radio and app ads targeted to those areas around the 16 intersections that elijah mentioned we talked about potentially looking at it in movie theaters we'd have to do a little bit more research into that but definitely looking at how we can target social media ads and and other places that we can target to where we know these activities are happening um and then in addition to kind of organically getting the word out as well so using coc members and some of the other folks um and the chamber and the partners that we've been working with to help us push this message out through their means as well okay have

[02:02:34] you thought about uh like uh some of the the in-store musac type things where they have advertisements um where you could also uh do some things in in those locations as well that's a great idea there's uh we actually had a conversation with dr hill earlier about litter um and he mentioned um like health care places that show videos which i thought was a great idea so we'll do some research into that as well and see if that's a possibility all right excellent thank you nikki thank you elijah all right the next speaker we're going to go with bailey vega bode

[02:03:10] Franklin we're and then angry thank you madam chair the first thing I want to do is just thank supervisor Vega for bringing this back to the floor this was something we were talking about early on in our term but you remembered and you brought it back to the floor and and I really do appreciate that because it is a concern across the county not just in certain sectors of the county and so I I applaud you and I partner with you in that.

[02:03:39] The second thing is, Elijah, thank you for making this so important that you got on this real quick and brought it back to us because it is a reflection and a complexion of our community. And so I've seen, I'm just saying to the county exec, I've seen the change in the relationships, the connectors that you're making, like with Keep Prince William Beautiful.

[02:04:05] I've seen a change in my community already. And this just marries with that. And so the connectors, as Supervisor Gordie is saying, is very important instead of us, you know, whomever, giving the monies to the panhandlers, making sure that they become a whole person again.

[02:04:24] And so that is very important to me specifically. But the other thing I wanted to ask, the two things I wanted to ask is, number one, instead of giving money, can we have, is this county exec and county attorney put me back where I need to be, can we have business cards of some sorts to pass out instead of money?

[02:04:51] Is that legal? You want me to, if I understand your question correctly, you're saying, do we have business cards that we can hand to the panel that gives them information about services? Like, we got these cute little things for us.

[02:05:07] I will tell you, we have those. Okay. What we found is, where's my friend's supervisor angry, is that at that moment, that person is not interested in the car, and we found that we had more cars littered than we had them calling in for services.

[02:05:25] So we don't want to be wasteful. Yes. Okay, I got you. Okay, no problem. I said, put me back where I need to be. And then the other thing that I wanted to say is the church. I saw in your presentation at your church, and we've talked about this. I remember in our retreat, we talked about this.

[02:05:42] Supervisor Gordy and I had a long conversation with my chief. We were just having lunch, and we talked about this. And so the church and the unchurched, however that looks for whomever, human beings are human beings, but this gives an opportunity for our community churches to be involved in this process again, again.

[02:06:02] And so I appreciate that on your presentation. I'm not going to stop my conversation because of an eerie. The other thing is I wanted to bring to your attention, if you've not already thought about it, but, Elijah, I know you and your team, you proactively think of things, grant funding as it relates to this process.

[02:06:24] There is grant funding, state and federally. Yes? Yes. You're thinking about it already. Yes? Yes, we do. We tap into every dollar we can get. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I say just to partner with the robustness of what you're trying to, but thank you for responding immediately.

[02:06:43] We really appreciate it. One of the things that we're doing in reference to, you all approved some position in our finance department for grants, and staff is actively working with those positions to identify other sources that we may not have thought about that we can apply for.

[02:06:59] We, and I know my friend is leaving me, but since we've... So I appreciate that. Since we started working on homelessness and we first started working with the CLC, they were receiving in grant funding between the state and feds about $500,000.

[02:07:19] We've been able to triple that. So now we're receiving over $1.5 million in grants from our state and federal partners through working with our organization to strengthen their capacity and expand what they're doing. So our housing office works with the state.

[02:07:35] In fact, we're about to get more funding from DBHDAS. I'm just messing them up. They're going to get me. But we're going to get additional 72 vouchers to be able to support folks who are homeless in our community through the efforts, the hard work that they've done and the track record that they've done.

[02:07:54] So the state comes and asks us to, hey, can you manage this program for us? So we are tracking down every dollar we can to support our residents and support our organizations because most of the dollars who come in from our federal and state dollars to address homelessness goes to those organizations, not to the county.

[02:08:10] And then lastly, I know three minutes, businesses too, invoking that as well. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right, thank you so very much. We're going to go on to Supervisor Vega, then Bodie. Franklin has no comments, then we are. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Elijah.

[02:08:27] It's been a long time coming. I can't even recall how long my office has been working with you just to try to get signs, and here we are. I issued this directive back in February, and I appreciate the discussion that we're having and all of the work that has been put into this.

[02:08:43] However, I want to revert back to my original directive because I think that there is a major component that is missing from what is being proposed here. And I'm going to go ahead and read it because the directive stated that I was going to, that I wanted to instruct the county attorney's office to provide legal research and advice on possible, on a possible ordinance, amendments regarding panhandling and public safety to include reviewing other Virginia local jurisdictions, jurisdictions.

[02:09:13] And so we have this, but there is that very important component that is missing. And in some of my conversations with my colleagues on this dais is that I think that this is a good start, but there's no reason why we can't have it all. There's a lot of focus and a lot of emphasis being put on the giver, but I think that we can all agree that the giver is not the main problem in this equation.

[02:09:38] The main problem that we have right now are the panhandlers. When I asked for data, I was told that there was no data. So my question to you, Elijah, is how do we know about these 16 locations being a big problem for us when it comes to panhandling if we have no data?

[02:10:00] I think the data we're referring to that was not data to substantiate and county attorney, please chime in, is around the data around traffic accidents. Nobody has ever questioned that there is data around where people are panhandling. We have that information through your offices, through emails that you guys come in, through working with the police department and calls that they get.

[02:10:22] That data is there. And I appreciate that, but I think that we all agreed that there is no correlation between traffic accidents and panhandling. And so I'm just, again, trying to understand, you know, these 16 locations to Supervisor Angry's point. I absolutely wish that a map would have been included in the presentation because I do think it's extremely important for the sake of discussion.

[02:10:45] But again, we've conceded that traffic accidents are not connected to panhandling. I would agree, based on the data, It hasn't been a correlation that effectively showed that because of Panhand war, there's a track to that extent. At the same time, I would also agree that there are near misses.

[02:11:04] Okay. I would concede to that. I'm not going to sit here and say, hey, there is not near misses. But to establish the data that we're looking for, we don't want to get to the hits. Correct. So this program is about not getting to the hits.

[02:11:20] Which is why the traffic ordinance component is extremely important to the success of this program. But, okay, I'm going to continue with my questions. You said that Prince William County is not hiring, that it's going to be through Keep Prince William Beautiful, yes? Correct. But are they not community partners?

[02:11:38] Yes. And do we not give them funding? Correct. So that's public funds, tax dollars being used for this intended purpose. Now, I don't know how our community partners operate. I haven't, you know, digged that deep. What are their hiring practices? Are they the same hiring practices that we have for Prince William County government employees And just to give you an example, are we drug testing? Are we checking for, you know, work permits?

[02:12:04] What are we doing in regards to that? Have we thought that out thoroughly? Or how are we going to address that? So keep peace freedom have their own protocols in reference to hiring and what requirements that employee must have to meet there. One of the main things that they talk about is ensuring that person is going to be following all the safety protocols that they use when they're out on the site.

[02:12:24] so they're going to be training around what's expected of that particular person before they go out and do any work there's going to be understanding of the safety gear that they have to wear and if that person is not fit to perform they're not going to and I get all of that because it was clearly stated in the presentation but my question is more so on getting them hired through through that organization because again we are connected we can't distance ourselves they're using public funds that we the county are giving them right And so we do have a degree of responsibility when it comes to that.

[02:12:56] Let me make sure if I want to get to the media question. Is the question that is the county going to have exposure by giving the donation? Is that the question? Not necessarily, no. Okay. No. Again, we have certain requirements when we hire people, right?

[02:13:15] And people have to meet those requirements. Are those the same requirements since we fund a certain portion of their budget the same as the county hiring requirements? I can't answer that question honestly because I'm not an HR expert. But I would imagine Prince William, just like any business, has to make sure that they follow all the federal and state laws when it comes to hiring to make sure they are compliant.

[02:13:39] And they could be different from a private entity or nonprofit entity than from a local government. So I don't want to speak to you and give you the wrong information about what processes they have to follow in reference to meet their state and federal requirements for hiring. Okay. Madam Chair, I have one more question, or do you want me to come back for my second round?

[02:13:56] Come back for your – well, you know, come back. I'm just going to ask a quick clarifying question because we keep talking about Keep Principle and Beautiful. They are a nonprofit. I know that we do give them funding, but do we give them the bulk of their funding, or do they also have private donations? Because, you know, the money that they are using to pay these people, you know, some of it could be coming from tax dollars, but isn't it conceivable that some of it is coming from private donations?

[02:14:22] And the proposal that they have now is going to be through the donation that we're providing. They're going to be providing in-kind services that is also that for administrative work, from other resources they get, that's not going to be charged to them. Gotcha. Thank you. All right, Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair, and Elijah, and to the team and staff that have put this together.

[02:14:41] Thank you for all your efforts in this. I know this gets into a very complex and multi-tiered challenge that we have in our community. So I wanted to uplift that and speak to that first. And I think, Elijah, you framed this really well at the outset, that there's a myriad of reasons why someone might be on the street.

[02:15:02] I do want to validate my colleagues that say that there are some folks that are seeing this as a business enterprise. This is lucrative. but also to uplift something that Sura Zagordi said, this would not be lucrative unless folks were actually giving. So we can't lose sight of that. That said, there are, frankly, homeless folks and unsheltered population folks that are doing this.

[02:15:20] It isn't just organized folks and folks that are looking to get one over on the generosity of our community. So there's a whole continuum of folks that might be out there. Some might be unsheltered temporarily. Some might be for long-term.

[02:15:36] Some dealing with mental health. Some of them dealing with substance misuse. you talked about a lot of the profile of someone that could be on the street at any given point. And that is to say that that population on any given portion of the county you're looking at could be shifting in and out. Could be part of the day it's someone that's part of an organized ring.

[02:15:53] Could be someone that's even on a different median in the same intersection there for a much different reason. So there's a lot that goes into that. So I want to take that minute to pin that and highlight that. Because I think it's an important part of why there isn't a one-size-fits-all, silver bullet, which will solve this issue. So wanted to highlight that. Secondly, I appreciate the fact that you all are already thinking about this from a jobs program perspective, right? That in order to, as you said, Elijah, to shift some of the thinking around some of the folks that are doing this, they need to have a meaningful way to contribute to themselves in their life and to

[02:16:28] shift what frankly is a rewiring of their thought processes and their mindset to go towards something else because the only way they'll be able to get out of that constant cycle of that is to be having something to change that mindset. Child care, I know we talked about that. Nutrition, food insecurity, underemployment versus unemployment, housing assistance, health care assistance. We talked about all that as part of this and how once we're able to get that person, that one little foot in the door, we can connect them to a lot of what the underlying reasons are around why they may be panhandling to begin with.

[02:17:05] So I think alongside any conversations we have around ordinances, enforcement, all of that, we need to get at the root cause of why that person may be there to begin with. And frankly, that's what a lot of this stuff does. So I wanted to highlight that. My only actual question, at least for this round, is, and I asked it to you already, so it shouldn't come as a surprise, is, other than keep Prince William Beautiful, I appreciate their work, and I appreciate the corollary that you're using.

[02:17:32] Are you looking at maybe as we endeavor in this, as we move along, and hopefully we'll have good data to support keeping this going over the course of the next 90 days to 120 days, what have you, expanding that scope of who we're going to be approaching in terms of those partners to get other types of employment in place as part of this program?

[02:17:51] And as we talked about, as one of the things that we do now, and our partners around the table with the Career Works Center on Minerville Road is, and our DSS office has staff there as well, where we have partners at the table who can, as we bring people into services.

[02:18:10] So KIPP is one part of it. Once you bring a client into services, you want to find out what they need to really turn their life around. And employment service is one of them. We have organizations who are part of the COC that can do everything from resume writing to job coaching.

[02:18:28] And we want to get those connected to those services. And that's why we have the Give Prince William local Prince William campaign. So that those organizations have the resources so when we engage with a client, it's not all in the county. We can then remake those referrals to those organizations.

[02:18:45] They can screen those clients using all their screening and get them the services that they need to move ahead. But one of the focuses as a part of our COC that HUD requires is that we work to increase a person's earned income when they come into services. That's one of the goals that we have.

[02:19:01] So we've been doing that over the years and increasing what are those things and barriers that's keeping you from increasing your earned income. So for those able-bodied people that are willing and ready to work, we work with them to get them employed into meaningful jobs as they move forward to sustain themselves.

[02:19:17] Appreciate that. So the last point I had as I'm running out of time here, we know that this is going to be, I wouldn't call it a slow-moving process, but it's going to be iterative. It's going to be building. It's going to be something that we won't be able to shift this ship in just 90 days or 120 days.

[02:19:34] It doesn't take a while to do. And understand that there's going to be, we have to come back and reevaluate. So I just wanted to highlight then the fact that this is only the beginning and we have a lot more to do with it. Thank you so much. All right, Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[02:19:51] I guess it's time to apply a cold splash of reality here. I appreciate the effort, Elijah, I really do, but in my view, it really doesn't fulfill the intent of the directive. You know, this isn't a social issue, by and large, at least that's not what the directive was designed to address.

[02:20:10] We can't buy our way out of this. We've already got programs in place, and now we're going to throw more money at it. Do we have the bandwidth within staff to accommodate this? Probably not, so we'll be coming for another FTE next year. It's not going to change the reality on the ground.

[02:20:27] may not even move the needle. If the programs aren't being used right now and they're not addressing the issue, then simply pumping more money into it isn't going to change things. With respect to turning it over to keep Prince William Beautiful to do, when they've got more than 25% of their budget used for executive recompense and then more than half of theirs goes to salaries, I'm not sure I see it coming.

[02:20:52] A large portion of that comes from our coffers. really doesn't address the public safety issue, which is what I think brought us here in the first place. It's not really a homeless circumstance. It's not really a mental health thing. I mean, we have a problem on the West End where they're coming out in Winnebago. I've got a bus that comes out from West Virginia. They drop them off and pick them up and collect all their

[02:21:25] cash they cause problems at the pickup points you know and you know what is the root cause what is the aim what is their goal is it enrichment is there an element of human trafficking to it i suspect there probably is at some level um but we're not mentioning the third leg of the stool the stool the leg that's missing is enforcement of both existing traffic laws and proposed or prospective traffic laws you know until we start using those tools i understand why the police department doesn't. You know, it's the nature of the beast at this point in time, given what

[02:22:00] prosecutions are. But until we address that issue, you know, things aren't going to change at the level that we're looking to create that change. Quite frankly, looking at the response I've gotten from the residents, they're skeptical. And that's a pretty kind word. Skeptical of the efficacy of this program, and more importantly, its cost. Supervisor Vega made a good point. Although the work program isn't paid directly by the county, it is paid indirectly with tax funds, and it's paid

[02:22:37] where an organization is going to take a percentage of those funds off the top for its own cost, its own administrative and employment costs. I can tell you, given the presentation today, the first thing I'm going to hear when I get back to my office, because you mentioned that you're going to have the Frilazo pickup for those who want to work. The first thing I'm going to hear in my office is, what about the West End? We've been kicked to the curb again, and we've got a huge problem on the Sudley Corridor, and I don't see them getting all the way over the Frilazo. I already have to answer to them with respect to the homeless shelters,

[02:23:14] not having anything on the West End. So I don't think you're going to get a whole lot of support from the West End. And what it really comes down to is taking action, and we need to take some action and this seems to be a recurring theme for me all of our surrounding jurisdictions many other jurisdictions throughout the commonwealth are taking action but every time we want to take an action every time we propose an action we hear about risk well risk is inherent in life and i

[02:23:48] don't want to hear that we're going to get sued we get sued every other bloody week land use human rights court violations that's what we got a staff of attorneys for the other jurisdictions are taking the risk. They're enabling the ordinances to try and address it, and we're not. And until we get past that and take a little bit of risk, and I would note that the other jurisdictions haven't

[02:24:19] been sued yet, but until that circumstance changes and they are successfully litigated, then I think we should probably follow some of the same and what appear to be reasonably effective um changes to traffic and enforcement measures that the other jurisdictions have thank you supervisor angry thank you madam chair hey and i know the intent of this is for us to give you uh maybe some feedback or add some things to what you already have here and so i hope

[02:24:54] uh a lot of that you've got notes i think one of what i'm hearing the key one is you know again i'm really stuck on the homelessness because it's so bad and i think there's some panhandling that comes from that but i do also agree with you know supervisor gordy supervisor aware that there's this element that's happening that um i hope you've added to your list to maybe somehow investigate to see if you know if there's vans and winnebago's dropping people off and doing this what is going on in that and could that be human trafficking could it just be that these folks realize that's how they can get paid because they can't get a job here or whatever and

[02:25:32] So they're doing that as a job through whatever that organization is. And if that's an issue, then my question for you is also to your list. Are you working on legislation in Richmond to see if we can't get something changed? And this is a commonwealth problem, I'm pretty sure. I'm focusing simply on what's happening in Neasco because it is literally bad at that Gideon to, again, you know, that Dale Boulevard stretch.

[02:25:55] It is really, really bad there. So have you added to maybe we can start working on what our legislative priorities are for Richmond to see if someone will write a bill to give us a little bit more authorization to Ms. Robles' point that the First Amendment of folks doing this, something has to change in Richmond to allow us some authority to do more.

[02:26:16] Now, my other one is where do we stand on the Eastern Navigation Center? Because I think that plays a real big part in this. And, again, I know we're talking panhandling, but I think it's broken out into two categories there. One is what is happening with these businesses and industries.

[02:26:31] And the other is, to your point, can we get folks in a better situation by creating a job and showing them that life is better inside somewhere else in the community, being a part of that versus, you know, just trying to pick up a quick buck and laying in the woods.

[02:26:47] But, you know, the situation of that. So that's a question I have. And then just the last one I had was really just a statement because I think this really goes to, and I've had a close call with this, and it literally was right there getting on 95 at Dell Boulevard.

[02:27:03] I don't want to hit somebody and kill somebody and then have that stuck on me. So I'm going to speak for every person that's driving a car. Nobody wants to kill anybody in a car, even if you found to be, you know, not found guilty of that. You don't want to go through that.

[02:27:18] And it's just too many folks just freely walking in the medium and walking across that 95, you know, the Dell Boulevard. You know what I'm talking? That's a horrible area, and they walk across that like it's a neighborhood park, okay? And so it's only a matter of time.

[02:27:34] I'm just simply saying I want to leave here today with something that we can actually give the people to say we did something today with this. I know it's a work session, so you're going to take it back and pack it up and do some more. but I'm hoping we can get something out of this, for real, because this is a growing problem, and I think it's actually spread into, like, two different categories.

[02:27:53] Again, I think we're talking, when we say panhandling of whatever's happening in the business sense of it, but we've got a problem with folks just thinking they can make a quick buck to, you know, without trying to be a part of the solution. So right, wrong, or indifferent, it's really challenging for the citizens.

[02:28:11] I'll stop here. Thank you, Madam Chair. Did you want to respond? I would definitely on the east end we'll definitely get you an update but homeless staff is working with our FFM staff to move that project along we did have a delay because we had to comply with some EPA requirements from endangered species of bats so we couldn't take down some trees to move forward so as you you know so we are complying with all the federal requirements we're going through our design phase once we can get past those things we'll be hopefully getting a project schedule and a construction schedule back to you Thank you.

[02:28:47] All right. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks for teeing that up from me, Supervisor Angry. And Supervisor Weir, you literally took everything out of my mind and said it for me. So thank you for that. Again, the focus of this directive is about safety. That's it.

[02:29:04] We're not stopping people from holding signs. What we want to achieve through this, if you want to call it traffic or transportation ordinance, is to stop people from passing objects. is paramount. You heard supervisor angry. We've seen time and time again people coming in here asking us to do something about speeding. We've done it, but unfortunately for some families it's been a little too late. And so it's about safety and that should be that should be the main focus and I think that it's gotten lost in everything else that has been brought up. I am proud to say

[02:29:41] that our county doesn't suffer from resources. Does everybody agree? We have a lot of resources in this county. I would like for you also to come back because yes this is a work session. We're giving you feedback and you're going to come back to us i would like to see something that has been used to measure the success of the county getting involved you know with the homeless community and connecting them to those services do we have metrics that we can you know utilize to say wow you know what when we get involved this is what happens and we see a change because it's taken a lot of work with my office i'm not going to speak for anybody else and i think for the and i'm thankful for the for the police department stepping in and partnering with us to you know clean up

[02:30:18] some areas and to improve other areas, especially where the businesses are in the Sudley Road corridor. And again, you know, I want to be on the record saying we have to take a holistic approach to this. Everything that we've discussed is important. Nothing that you've brought up in this presentation, Elijah, you know, would I dismiss. But again, the intent and the purpose of my directive is centered and focused around safety. And I would like for you all to come back or if Madam Chair or the county attorney, I emailed everybody on this dais a proposal that I wanted to bring forward.

[02:30:54] I will concede that it has not been vetted by the county attorney, but I think that as a board we need to be given language that addresses the safety component so that we can implement in addressing the panhandling situation that is plaguing our county. And with that, I think that's all I have, Madam Chair.

[02:31:13] all right supervisor Bodie Bailey we're is this your second time we're okay all right so Bodie Bodie thank you madam chair um I don't disagree that there's a safety aspect to this absolutely and I think that part of this and I don't think it was highlighted enough but I think it links back to something that was said at the outset which is the community safety office is part of this and a lot of things that they're looking at are traffic safety the safety of our business complex because yes this is talked about panhandling mostly in the sense of people on medians

[02:31:51] people on corners what have you but elijah you mentioned it there's also panhandlers frankly that stand outside uh shopping centers and stand outside grocery stores stand outside restaurants and businesses and that will not be addressed with only looking at the medians and the intersections and and that aspect of it there's a holistic side of it too there's a geography of where these people panhandling. Panhandlers, frankly, are doing a lot in other spaces other than just our intersection. So I think that I agree with you, but that has to be part of the conversation too. You can't do that by just narrowing your focus on just that piece. The second thing

[02:32:27] I wanted to mention is there has to be an all-hands-on-deck approach to this. And you talked about that a little bit. You talked about business owners, talked about the faith community, and the cooperative council ministries, which you already engage in with the continuum of care has to be part of that conversation as well. But I also know that we're, from a transportation safety aspect, we're currently already endeavoring in a Safe Streets for All campaign. See Mr. Weinman out there too. That's to be part of the conversation, because I know that some of the conversations that folks have had is, well, let's make it harder for people to stand on medians or stand on corners or make it the crosswalks, what have

[02:33:05] you. Well, I don't want the unintended consequence of that to be, to make our county, which already has issues around pedestrian safety less safe because we don't want people standing on a street corner or meeting or what have you. So there are ways to meet those two in the middle where we're making it so folks are diverted away from these areas in which they're currently panhandling while also not throwing the baby out bath out with the bath water and making our already too auto-centric passage and thoroughfares even less friendly for people to exist. So I wanted to add that as well. The last thing I'll say is no matter how we're addressing this, safety does have to be

[02:33:44] a conversation. Yes, I've been sitting on that left-hand turn signal too. Sometimes my kids and my family in my car is getting comfortable when someone goes and knocks on the window or is waving a sign on one of my kids' faces next to the windshield. I get it. We need to do something about that. But we still also have to continue to highlight the fact that these are other human beings in our community. My mom was a panhandler for some time. There are other issues there that we have to address and we have to continue to look at it in the dual track of the folks that are doing this because they feel like there's no other recourse that they have in order to survive.

[02:34:19] We also look at it from there's safety all around that needs to be addressed. The safety of the people that are doing it, the safety of people that are sitting there in traffic, the safety of the business owners and the patrons that are going in and out of those businesses every single day. There has to be a holistic look at this. And to me, I agree that we're not doing the entire job we need to do unless we address all of those. But again, understanding again, that that's going to take some time. That's going to take a lot of iterations by this board, by you all and county staff, and that we won't be able to get this right within just 90 days. So again, appreciate what my

[02:34:55] colleagues have been saying about this. I highlight those things too. But we need to realize that until we get to prevention on this, which I think is a key part of what you've been trying to say, elijah we will just still be attacking folks and attacking their issues after they've already fallen on hard times they're they're a pain holder to begin with so until we get to that left of bang which this does we'll just be be throwing band-aids on top of band-aids on top of band-aids which frankly doesn't get us anywhere and frankly as one of my uh colleagues to my left like to say is is throwing money after things that we should be addressing at the forefront as also after it's

[02:35:33] already done. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Rear? Thank you, Madam Chair. I mean, going back, I mean, it strikes me we've got a lot of mission creep here. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but we've lost the focus on the directive. And maybe it's our fault. Maybe we need to be a little bit more proactive when it comes to the police department. Please take this message back to the

[02:36:05] chief. I mean, does it take a directive on our part to mandate more enforcement of pedestrian traffic laws? Does it require us to direct the chief to place an emphasis on those intersections?

[02:36:27] Can we do it? Probably. We're the policies setting this board. If that wants to be, if we want one of our policies to be pedestrian safety, that's an option to us. But until there's active enforcement, this problem's not going to go away. And don't tell me we don't have the resources for it because I know we engage in the VDOT grant process where we get VDOT grants for nothing but pedestrian safety. Overtime for pedestrian safety only, as I believe, under the

[02:37:01] program, and I've administered the program before. So we've got the ability to put people out there to focus on this problem and to be paid to do nothing but focus on this problem. But we need to keep the focus on the problem that resulted in the directive. It's nice to deal with the other stuff but the problem that we were trying to address seems to be going to the background it's great to slap ourselves on the back and tell us we're doing a good job but if it doesn't get

[02:37:36] to the underlying issue that was initially brought up then we're just spinning our wheels all right supervisor bailey says your second or all right yes thank you very much um just briefly um i thought i had missed something but i did go back and read just briefly you do have say the safety component in there, I don't think, I think it needs to be a little enriched with that. And you, point well taken, because I know Dan is a part of your task force as well. So the thing that I want to bring

[02:38:11] forward, and Kevin, welcome, good to see you, is the piece about something I mentioned about panhandlers having children while they're panhandling. So I just want to raise that to the for you know it can be safety it could be people getting hit by cars it could be you know fatalities yeah but when you talk about our babies that's key as well so as we are going forward in a positive vein in addressing this issue because it's not been addressed before previous to any other boards

[02:38:48] it's just been an increasing problem and so I'm sure that the citizens that all of us citizens that help to sustain this county understand that it's going to come out of that budgeting aspect but also as we're working with social services as we're working with our police departments the children need to be focused on because that's a component that when we talk about panhandling hadn't been infused and I know that is one of the concerns I have in my district as well but Elijah just make that a focus as well and and the process thereof so that we're

[02:39:25] following through and bringing closure to it thank you thank you madam chair all right thank you so this has been a good discussion this comes to the part of the meeting i would challenge supervisor vega to an arm wrestle but she is younger than me and stronger than me and i'm just not even going to go there um i do i've taken what everyone has said into um you know into consideration and the point about other jurisdictions taking action you know they may have ordinances but they're not being enforced i see panhandlers when i go into stafford i see them when i go into

[02:40:00] Fairfax. I see them, you know, when I go into Arlington. This is a problem not just within Prince William County, but it's a problem within our region. But again, our focus is on the Prince William County portion. Have we lost focus of the directive? I do appreciate Super Vega saying that, you know, let's look into her ordinance, you know, giving the directive for legal to look into her ordinance. But I want to see something done today. And I would like to move forward with the pilot

[02:40:34] program. You know, I would like to see what it's going to look like in a year. And we don't know until we try. You know, and I've heard the concerns and I've seen the emails from people saying, you know, we're going to be paying people to clean up after themselves or to pick up litter or, you know, there are concerns that people aren't going to want to do it. But we don't know until we try. And we're not trying. We can have discussions on the dais, high level discussions.

[02:41:01] But at some point, we need to try things and we need the data and we need to see if it's working or if it's not working, we don't do it. That's why it's a pilot. So that's where I stand. And I do agree. We have some areas like that Gideon Stretch. As a mom of a new driver, it does make me nervous when he's going to have to drive that corridor without me in the passenger seat.

[02:41:22] And so, yes, we need to try different things to get at this problem. So I am going to make my own directive, I guess. Therefore, without objection, and again, might have to arm wrestle someone, I would like to direct the county executive to move forward with the pilot program and to report back in one year.

[02:41:43] And this will give the board enough time to see if this works for us, if this is something that we could tweak, or if it's something that we're going to have to scrap altogether. But I would like for us to move forward with this. And with that, let's go, Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[02:41:59] I just want to correct you. Fairfax, Stafford, and Arlington do not have an ordinance of this sort. So that's probably why you see panhandling happening. Second of all, the directive I issue wasn't fully fulfilled. because we have not been presented with anything that we can actually consider in terms of enforcing or establishing a traffic ordinance.

[02:42:18] And so to go ahead and move along, when this is the first time that we hear, see this presentation, there's been a very good discussion that has come out of every single person on this dais. I think it would be premature. And yes, you're absolutely right. We've gotten email after email from folks saying that they do not agree with this approach.

[02:42:37] And that's fine. I've said we've got to look at it holistically, and we can have it all. But the issue here is safety, and I'm going to keep harping on that because that was the initial intent of my directive, and we have to do something about this. And at the end of the day, folks, we are going through a strategic planning process where people talk about Prince William County, their identity, who do we want to be when we grow up, what kind of county community do we want to live in.

[02:43:03] This is not an issue that only impacts Republicans. It's an issue that impacts everybody. It shouldn't be Republican versus Democrat. It should be about the message that we want to send in terms of what society we want to live in. And so, Madam Chair, I do object to your directive. One, because my original directive was not fulfilled.

[02:43:21] Two, we've had robust conversation, discussion on this presentation. And I think that we owe it to each other and we owe it to the general public to allow staff to go back, take everything that was said on the dais and come back with something more. I think it's premature to say that you want to implement this pilot program and see where it goes.

[02:43:38] you know, for a whole year without having the data that I requested, without seeing what these locations are, how you guys came up with them. And then in addition to the data that I requested for our efforts in improving the situation with the homeless community. I think it's all important. I think we need to have another work session on this. And I would also remind my colleagues, we don't have a resolution, Madam County Attorney, and I don't know if one is needed, but we don't have a resolution. It was not advertised on the agenda. So I was not aware that we were taking a vote on something specifically today.

[02:44:11] We're not taking a vote, Director. And I, hold on, I appreciate what you said. No, this isn't Democrat versus Republican, and I certainly did not frame it as that. And this does not, moving forward, does not preclude us from not examining the ordinance that you presented and having a further discussion on that.

[02:44:28] From my point of view, I want to at least look at something and move forward with something while we have time. We do have time to have further discussion and to talk about your ordinance. When, Madam Chair? Because that's fine. So then when? I emailed something. You told me that the county attorney had issues with the language. So when do I get the opportunity for the attorney to vet and come back?

[02:44:47] You made the directive today. I will ask Madam County Attorney, you know, you made the directive today. Are you able to provide a time frame for which your team can look at it and that we can put this on the agenda for an upcoming meeting? Madam Chair, members of the board, the directive was for the county attorney's office to provide legal research and advice on possible ordinance amendments regarding panhandling and public safety to include reviewing other Virginia local jurisdiction ordinances.

[02:45:18] I believe I fulfilled that directive by providing my confidential legal advice to the board. Supervisor Vega did provide a draft resolution or ordinance yesterday, and if it is the board's prerogative to issue a directive for me to review that ordinance, to provide my legal advice, I can do so if that's the board's direction.

[02:45:37] I support that. I support her directive for you to take a look at that. Thank you, Madam Chair. I know we have other people in the queue because, again, there is objection to my directive, so if you have an objection to my directive, I ask that you stay in the queue. And did you have anything else, Supervisor Vegas?

[02:45:54] You're still in there. Thank you. No. All right, then we'll go to Supervisor Gordy. Madam Chair, thank you. I just want clarity. Mr. Johnson, what was your planned next steps in terms of this plan?

[02:46:10] Because I remember you were talking about presenting a budget to support this. So, I mean, I'm not sure that this is ready for prime time. So what were you intending for your next steps for clarity? For clarity?

[02:46:25] Yes, sir. Again, evaluate all the comments that have come back today, either August or July or August. Come back with what that resource request would be from the board to move the project forward. As I indicated, we are currently doing outreach. We're going to continue to outreach.

[02:46:42] We get calls. We're going to respond. There's other elements of the process that we need to make sure that we have board approval to move forward with those things. Our campaign, our employment program, we want to come back with those costs so that we can get approval to move forward. Okay, so Madam Chair, you know, I think given those conditions that there may be some other actions that we have to approve, that maybe the directive that you're offering could not be achieved without those approvals.

[02:47:10] So let me get back to you real quick, because there are other things, in order for you to move this forward, there are other things you have to do, is what you're saying, yes. So, but you need our guidance to do that, right? Yes. All right, so I just want to, so he needs our guidance to do it. So maybe it's not come back.

[02:47:26] So what, if you need our guidance. The guidance, if you want to go, Chris? Yes. Go ahead. Madam Chair, members of the board. So we will come back in July or September when the board is back in session with a resolution related to any budget-related items that the board needs to approve.

[02:47:48] There are some aspects of what has been presented that are operational, and we will move forward. other aspects that are not and that will require us to get the board's green light because it represents new spending gotcha and in the case where it does we will come back to the board and ask for your uh for your green light on so quickly sorry so it requires um a directive and eventually a vote on a resolution or no just i i actually that's we we do not need a directive today okay

[02:48:21] So what ultimately I'm committing to with Elijah's leadership and the project action team is coming back to the board either in July with the resolution or in September with the resolution outlining the spending associated with panhandling these strategies.

[02:48:40] And we will ask for the board's consideration at that time. All right. Did you have anything? I think that gives us better clarity in anticipating that either next month or in September, preferably next month, we would be able to have anything that we need to vote on so that we can move those initiatives forward.

[02:49:03] Thank you. Supervisor Bailey? Yeah, well, I think, thank you, Tom, for that question, because I think that brings clarity also. And to the county attorney for your explanation for today, that brings clarity. And, Supervisor Vega, I just wanted, for my one-eighth, I just wanted to let you know, my compliment in agreeing with you was for today, for what was presented today.

[02:49:28] The traffic piece, concerns, safety, and all like that, I agree with you, that needs to be done. But for today, I'm in clarity with what's happening today, and Madam Chair, I just, do we need to move forward with the vote? Or because there was no, we just moved forward?

[02:49:45] There is no vote today. All right, thank you. all right supervisor we are then we're going to close this up thank you madam chair um first and foremost i mean you know we've gone around in circles on a lot of things and there's been some discussion about what the initial directive was and you know legal review and giving us our options and we've discussed those in closed session but the public doesn't know the content of those discussions and i think if we're going to have a discussion about enforcement and the risks inherent of it we owe the public to do that publicly we can't just start making our decisions

[02:50:21] and behind closed doors, regardless of what the rationale for it is from a risk standpoint. But I think we owe it to the public to tell them why we are or why we are not doing something. To that end, I actually have a policy question for the county attorney. If we wanted to direct chief of police to place an emphasis on pedestrian safety enforcement, utilizing existing resources, would that be in the form of a directive or would it require a policy or can we not do it?

[02:50:54] Madam Chair, members of the board, the Chief of Police reports to the Deputy County Executive who reports to the County Executive. I think the County Executive has heard your concerns with regards to this and will have discussions with the Chief of Police, just as with any other director of an agency or a department when the board has concerns.

[02:51:14] I would recommend that the board share thoughts with the County Executive, and the County Executive will do his job with regards to those employees that report to him. I'm looking for something a little more direct and a little more forceful. So if it means directing the county exec to pursue those options, that's fine with me.

[02:51:33] I don't really care upon whose head we place it. I'm not picky today. And if the answer is the county exec is the proper person to place that onus on, I would suggest a directive to just that degree without objection.

[02:51:51] Honestly, wait, hold on. I want to weigh in on this one. There's a lot of frustration again. This is an issue that keeps growing and growing and growing. I feel a directive on that is performative. You know, Mr. Shorter, I'm sure obviously you're listening if you can take this back.

[02:52:10] And I'm sure Nusha might be out there listening too. I'm actually meeting with him. I think it's next week. And, you know, that's something we can also mention in our capacity as supervisors. You're welcome for me making your meeting difficult. You know, well, we need a little drama, Bob. I mean, we don't get as much coverage as y'all used to the previous boards.

[02:52:29] I don't know. Maybe, you know, I'll throw an almond at you. But, you know, I do want to land this plane because I do feel like we're going in circles. So I think, number one, you know, Mr. Shorter, we'd appreciate it as a board if you would be willing to talk to Police Chief Newsham about this and about, you know, empowering his officers to be more vigilant in traffic safety and pedestrian safety.

[02:52:59] The second thing is we have Supervisor Vega's ordinance. She gave a directive for the county attorney and her staff to review it. And then in July and August, we are, you're going to come back. Mr. Johnson will come back, answer some of our questions, give us additional details about these areas that we need to, these 16 areas, you know, personally, again, I'm open to trying this, you know, and we'll have a vote, a resolution and a vote at that time.

[02:53:26] Today's doing a directive is not the right thing. We'll have a vote at that time. This is something I personally, I just want to signal, I generally support because we have to try a variety of different measures. And so with that, I'm landing this plane. I think we can all agree.

[02:53:42] those are three things steps we're taking um i thank you so very much mr johnson for coming here and giving that mr shorter um you know the floor is yours again thank you very much madam chair just want to thank elijah for his leadership really the entire project action team for all the work that has been done to get to this point we will move forward and come back to the board with the resolution where uh where budget uh is needed or approval is needed also want to take this point in the CXO time just to recognize a leader who we've alluded to today as part of Elijah's

[02:54:21] presentation who has really dedicated a large part of their career to making Prince William County a phenomenal place and especially dedicated their career to serving vulnerable people. This is her last board meeting before retirement, so I want to take a moment just to recognize Director Courtney Tierney for her service.

[02:54:47] With that, Madam Chair, I am done. Thank you so very much, and thank you, Ms. Tierney, for your service.

[02:55:07] I just started to get to know you, and now you're leaving me. I wish we could keep you longer. All right, we are going to move on to Item 5, County Attorney. Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the board. This afternoon, in closed session, we will have consultation with legal counsel and briefings by staff members pertaining to the discussion or consideration of the disposition of publicly held real property at Innovation, where discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the public body, along with consultation with legal counsel pertaining to legal advice regarding land use law and sale agreement law, where discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position, negotiating strategy, or litigating posture of the

[02:55:47] public body. And we will have a personnel discussion relating to the appointment or designation of voting delegates to the 2024 National Association of Counties, the NACO Annual Conference and Business Meeting. These items are appropriate for closed session pursuant to 2.2-3711A13 and 8 of the Virginia Code. Motion to approve. Second. It was me and him. All right, let's vote. Supervisor

[02:56:16] Franklin, can we have a voice vote, please? I didn't hear. Did you hear? Supervisor Franklin, vote unanimous supervisor franklin absent from vote she just messaged me um so she's voting yes

[02:56:55] for closed session madam chair yes supervisor franklin aye thank you supervisor franklin

[02:57:31] all right so we are moving on i believe it's all unanimous yay um we're moving on to our work session i believe mr shurdy you can tee up 6a happy to tee it up uh as you said madam chair members of the board we are now moving to the work session presentations first up in those presentations is our b-poll presentation being delivered by our cfo michelle attree consistent with the directive from supervisor bode back i believe in april we are we are coming back to

[02:58:05] present to the board options so with that michelle take it away all right good afternoon um today i'm here to present to you as a kind of executive said directive uh 24 point 24-14 which which was issued by uh supervisor bode in april uh we were directed to bring back um the business licensing process around um a business license currently we have um businesses under a certain threshold that we don't have record of because there's no filing requirement um so we will be discussing the impact of impact of imposing a b poll license fee as well as and this was not part of the directive so it's

[02:58:41] sort of a separate section of this presentation, some information around gross receipts, moving from a gross receipt threshold to a gross receipt exemption and what that might look like. So that's in here for consideration as well. A little bit of history on the BPOL tax. So it is authorized under the Code of Virginia. It permits local jurisdictions in having a tax on businesses that conduct businesses within their boundaries. The rate cannot exceed the statutory rate defined by the code.

[02:59:13] It does allow for the establishment of classifications. For example, we have retail, contractor, etc., and various subclassifications. It allows for a gross receipt threshold, which we have today at $500,000. And then it also allows for a graduated tax rate structure, where you might bifurcate it by the amount of income that a business derives.

[02:59:33] I will say with that comes complexity of implementation and explaining and administrative costs for system changes. The Virginia Department of Taxation also puts out a guide that helps localities interpret the Code of Virginia around BPOL tax. And then our own Prince William County Ordinance has the BPOL in code.

[02:59:52] So what is the BPOL tax? It is a local option tax for the privilege of conducting business here in the county. It is on gross receipts. Gross receipts is established by state code. That's not something we can change. It's paid within 30 days of starting a new business, and it's renewed every year by March 1st.

[03:00:10] It is on a per-location basis and a classification basis. So if you are an owner, let's say you have a franchise and you have multiple franchise McDonald's, let's use, you would be paying on each location separately. It's a separate filing. So in other words, for example, on our gross receipts threshold, today you don't pay under $500,000.

[03:00:30] Let's say that McDonald's only made, let's say there's three of them, they made $400,000, all three would not pay because each one would be subject to that threshold. The tax rate is determined, like I said, by classification, and there are exceptions to the calculation for peddlers.

[03:00:46] Those are your door-to-door kind of sales, I think, back in the day, Amway. I'm not sure if there's any of those. The code is old, so it was written back then. I'm not sure if there's still many peddlers. Itinerant merchants, those are like our county fair. Those would be the people that come and set up and sell kind of one time and then travel on.

[03:01:03] And then restaurants on mixed drink sales. They pay a flat fee related to the mixed drink sale, but beer and wine are part of gross receipts. The information on BPOL is self-reported by the businesses, and tax administration is required by law to make a statutory assessment if they fail to file.

[03:01:23] So if we have a business that we know exists, they're not filing BPOL, we will ultimately send them a statutory billing with an estimate of what we think they may owe. That typically will prompt them to file because typically we're not going to be accurate, right? We're going to use our best guess based on other similar businesses, et cetera.

[03:01:39] And then our ordinance requires in the first year of their business, they have to estimate, and then they true it up in the second year, and then they file annually thereafter. Within tax administration, we use a number of tools to look at the validity of what's being filed.

[03:01:56] We're able to use information from the state, from the state-earned system, and then based on staffing levels, we may review, conduct inspections or audits. Some specific exclusions, gasoline, diesel, fuel supplier, wholesalers, deduct federal and state excise tax on motor vehicle fuels.

[03:02:16] I talked about the mixed drink sales. And then contractors. If we have a contractor that's located in Virginia, but they're doing work in Prince William, but they're also doing work in Fairfax, they'll only pay BPOL in Prince William on the work done in Prince William. They pay BPOL to Fairfax for the other.

[03:02:33] This slide, slide 7, shows our current BPOL classifications and tax rates. You'll see the number of categories that we have established here locally and the rates that we have in place and then the two flat fees that I mentioned. And rates are per $100 of gross receipts.

[03:02:53] A little history on the gross receipts threshold. In 2011 and prior, it was $100,000. In 2012, it raised to $200,000. And then there was a plan put in place to raise it incrementally to get to $500,000. and so from 13 to 15 it was at 250 and then it rose up to 500,000 in 2018 and thereafter so only if you are above that gross receipt threshold are you paying a B full tax and so there's no requirement for those businesses under to have a business license although many do we have about 10,000 businesses that file anyways just to get the license to hang on their wall there's no charge

[03:03:28] for that there is an administrative processing cost obviously and so we do know there's at least 10,000 businesses out there that we would capture more information on. So in tax year 2023, there were 14,871 businesses that filed in BPOL. 31% or 4,662 generate revenues. So 31% have gross receipts over $500,000. The lion's share of that $34.9 million comes from retail services. 45%

[03:04:01] comes from retail services. The next largest is contractors. In 2018, we did have a study done by PFM and they looked at all of our tax revenues and came out with recommendations and these were just some of the conclusions they made around around B-POL I thought I would bring up. While they say it is a small source of revenue it does enhance our revenue diversification which is something that our rating agencies very much care about. It is tied to gross receipts so it's a relatively stable revenue source. If we look at our history B-POL remained pretty consistent even And during the downturn of the Great Recession, the pandemic, we still had our BPO revenues coming in.

[03:04:42] However, it is sometimes perceived as unfair or inequitable because it is on gross receipts versus net. You can have two businesses with a very different bottom line. But unfortunately, it's on the gross. Again, we can't control that. That is a General Assembly, you know, Code of Virginia requirement. It is retailers, as I said, count for the largest share.

[03:05:02] Most of our rates are below the statutory maximums, which is a good thing. gives you flexibility should we ever need to raise revenues for some reason you have a place to go to raise revenues we do lack certain people data right because of those businesses under the threshold we're not getting complete information on them and in many businesses that don't choose to get the license we don't have any information on them if you I talked to actually was talking to Christina Wynn in the lobby and she would love to have a list from from us every month of new businesses that filed in the county because they would proactively outreach and tell them the great things about the county and provide assistance. You know, it's a great first impression. We can't

[03:05:39] do that because we don't have that information. I mean, lastly, they talk about that $500,000 threshold, and I'm going to talk about that a little bit later, so I'm going to pass on explaining that one right now. Your principles of sound financial management talk about tax fairness. It should be equitable. So businesses, taxpayers at certain income levels should be treated the same. With that $500,000 threshold, $499,999, you're not paying taxes, $500,000 you are. Is that equitable? As that number got larger, it's perceived as more inequitable with businesses.

[03:06:17] We do also pay attention to administrative compliance costs, right, when implementing a new tax. What's the administrative burden, and is it worthwhile to move forward with it? In the case of business license fee, you'll see that the revenue is not great, but we do believe it's still beneficial to move forward with because of the reasons of getting to know who our businesses are in the county. So option one, which I think gets to supervisor Bodie's directive, would be to require all businesses operating in the county to obtain a business license and impose a license fee. The code of Virginia does allow jurisdictions with population greater than 50,000 to impose a fee

[03:06:54] of up to $50. It used to be $100. That was reduced in 2000. A business wouldn't pay both. So if they're paying BPOL tax, they won't pay the license fee. You either pay one or the other. The pros of this is it would improve our data on businesses in the county. It brings some continuity. All businesses are sort of treated the same. It enhances discovery and provides clarity.

[03:07:17] And I would say it really promotes, when I say enhances discovery, we can proactively outreach to the businesses in tax as well. Not just looking to say, oh, we got you, but really looking to say, You're a new business, here are the laundry list of taxes you might be liable for in the county, because some of them just don't know.

[03:07:35] And so if we find them later, you know, a couple years down the road, it becomes way more costly because penalty and interest has kicked in. So if we can reach out to these businesses very early, and while they may not be subject to BPOL, they may very well be subject to personal property, and they don't know it.

[03:07:52] It would also provide a source of funding for additional compliance, enforcement, staffing, and tax admin. And I'll talk about that when I get to the cost and the revenues. The cons is it would create a level of administrative burden for a small amount of revenue, although we're already generating 10,000 licenses for no compensation.

[03:08:11] So we sort of already absorbed some of that burden, if you will. It could be unpopular with the business community currently paying zero tax. So those businesses under $500,000 today pay zero. Now they may be paying $50,000 or $40,000 or $30,000, whatever you would choose to set it at. This is a comparison of some of our peer jurisdictions, where they are with their fees.

[03:08:33] Most are in that $30 to $50 range. Chesterfield is at $10. Henrico at $30 for businesses under $500,000. They actually did just increase theirs to a million starting for fiscal 25. So if we were to implement a license fee at $30, $40, $50, you could also do $10 or $20.

[03:08:55] You'll see here the cost of the revenue of what it would generate at $30, about $306,000. $40,000, $40,000, $40,000, $40,000, $50,000, $510,000. That's our estimate based on the 10,000 filers that we have today. Now, it's probably going to be a little bit greater because there's probably businesses not filing at all.

[03:09:12] We just don't know who those are. Typically, our revenues are split with the schools. In this case, if we were to go this route, I would recommend just taking the entire amount and funding two FTEs so that we can process and inspect because with doing that, we will generate additional personal property revenue.

[03:09:28] We will have some discovery, and that revenue will get shared with the schools. So this would be a way to fund the staffing that would need to go with this new fee if it were put in place. We could also implement this as early as January 1 of 2025. Business licenses run on a calendar year, so that would be the next, you know, if we didn't do it this year, we'd be looking at January 1 of 2026.

[03:09:50] The second option I just want to point out is, again, this is that scenario of a taxpayer at $499,999 paying zero tax. A business at $500,000 is paying anywhere between $650,000 to $1,650, depending on what classification they are in.

[03:10:12] So that extra dollar really does impact a business. In fact, I was talking with a business owner that I know who has multiple locations, and they said last year they were under the threshold just a little bit. This year they crossed it, and they had to start paying VPOL tax.

[03:10:30] But it really does make you think, is there a way I can classify my stuff different? Now, it's gross receipts, so really there isn't a way to get around it unless you intentionally circumvent the law. But it really does make you think about that next dollar and the impact it has to you as a business, the closer you get to that threshold.

[03:10:48] There is that perceived, which leads to that perceived inequity for taxpayers at virtually the same level. And then it may encourage that inaccurate reporting. As I mentioned, we are not at the statutory maximum for the rates. You will see those rates that we're at there on the left and the statutory maximum is at the right.

[03:11:07] The two at the bottom, we are at the statutory maximum. Those are defined by code. So we do have room to move them if the board so choosed. This slide shows our comparison with our peer jurisdictions. Where the color is green, our rate is more favorable compared to our peers.

[03:11:28] Where it is red, our rate is less favorable compared to some of our peers. And where it's yellow, we have the same rate. At the bottom, you'll see the statutory maximums again. You'll see there's a couple places where jurisdictions have exceeded the statutory maximum. that's because it was lowered and they were grandfathered in they already had it in place so you know we're sort of right I think in the middle of a lot probably more above than below and to look in terms of numbers but competitive with our peers if we were to move from a threshold to an exemption what that would mean would it's really an implementation how we how we would

[03:12:05] implement it today like I said at five hundred thousand you're paying on the full five hundred thousand if we were to move to every business is exempt for the first $500,000. It would create a little bit more equity. It would cost us some money though. I mean it would be about $4.2 million based on tax year 2023 data. Each year that's going to increase a little bit but you'll see again the biggest share is in retail services. So $4.2 million would be the potential loss in revenue if we were to exempt the first $500,000 for every business. A few options that we could achieve that and I really am focusing on the I think the last one but I want

[03:12:44] of lay all of these out. One, you could increase the BPOLE rates to the statutory maximum to result in a revenue gain. If we went to the maximum, you would actually gain revenue. Again, I sort of like having that flexibility there for future boards, but that is an option of a way to get there. It may not be a popular option. The second would be to increase the BPOLE tax rates to a fraction to try to achieve revenue neutrality of that 4.2. So maybe increasing it on like retail services, our largest one, you would probably achieve revenue neutrality.

[03:13:15] If the board directed us to go back, if that was a route they wanted to do, we'd have to go back and do some analytics to figure out what that break-even might be. You could obviously increase your real estate tax rate, but what I think makes the most sense really is to direct the county executive to build this into our 26 budget, which may result in us coming back with one of these, but it may not, depending on where our revenues are next year.

[03:13:36] We may be able to absorb it within our revenue projections. Each year we're going to update that five-year plan, The numbers that we had presented to you for fiscal 26 with your fiscal 25 budget are going to be different. And so one way would be for us to kind of plan this in and come back at that time. And so this would be a year lag if you wanted to do this.

[03:13:56] This is an example of the revenue generated, the max rates. If you were to go to the max, you would pick up about $10.9 million. So a net gain of 6.8 once you absorb the exemption law of kind of shortfall or lost revenue of $4.2 million.

[03:14:12] It would impact 2,800 businesses, bills would go down, but about 1,800 businesses, bills would go up. It would be perceived as, I think, more equitable. It would no longer encourage any inaccurate reporting when you cross a threshold for that next dollar.

[03:14:31] Some of the cons is businesses with higher gross receipts would experience an increase in their tax bill, right, because you'd be increasing the tax rate, and it would be perceived as a tax increase. So sort of the next steps in terms of timing. For option one, which gets to your directive, Mr. Supervisor Bode, we'd like to have you direct the county executive to draft a B-POL ordinance and have us conduct a public hearing to enact the B-POL filing requirement for all businesses at a rate I'm recommending 50 so that we could fund two full positions and related equipment, et cetera, for data processing, enforcement, et cetera.

[03:15:10] And we would implement that January 1, 2025. Option two, then, would be to direct, if you wanted to move forward from a threshold to an exemption, would be to direct it for the FY26 budget process would be the recommendation. Timeline for option one, we're almost in July.

[03:15:29] July and September, we would be conducting those public hearings and the ordinance changes. September through December, we would start business outreach, working with the Chamber of Commerce, other businesses, so that we make those businesses that currently don't pay at all, they have to pay now this small dollar business license fee and then we would implement it in january we'd also have to make our system changes in september to december but because most jurisdictions have a fee in place our system is equipped to do it we would just need to do some testing and get it get it set up and then if you were to move again from the b poll threshold to the exemption that would be a little bit longer timeline in february the county executive would

[03:16:06] come back and propose his budget april you would adopt the budget and then in may and june we would do all the necessary public hearings, business outreach, and then it would implement January 1 of 2026 with a new threshold, a new exemption. Questions? And Supervisor Rears first up.

[03:16:25] Thank you, Madam Chair. If you could go to slide 14. Sure. I notice amongst the cons that you don't have listed the net revenue impact or potential net revenue impact if we go to a fee-based system, because then everybody's going to file.

[03:16:48] And if they can't be assessed and they're only going to pay 50 as opposed to $5,000, I know a whole lot of businesses are going to immediately go, here's my 50 bucks, see you next year. Now, I get further in the presentation you have a way of offsetting that.

[03:17:04] We'll get to it in a minute. But as a standalone, this cuts the legs out from under the county in terms of revenue from BPOL by exercising this. So it's an either or not by their choice. It's an either or if they choose.

[03:17:21] Well, yeah. If we're going to impose a business license fee and they pay their business license fee of $50, and we can't then assess them. No, no. That's what it says. No, so if they paid the $50, that's because they're under the $500,000 threshold.

[03:17:37] But that's not what that slide says. A BPOL tax cannot be assessed and collected on any amount of gross receipts of each business There's no qualification on the first section.

[03:17:56] Permits jurisdictions of the population greater than $50,000 to impose a business license fee of up to $50. Is there a statutory limitation as to what their gross receipts are that would limit it only to those that are under a certain threshold? Or is this, if you implement that program, is everybody eligible to?

[03:18:14] Yeah, no. If we implemented this, it would not impact our current BPOL taxes that we collect today. Our threshold is still the definer. It would be anything under that threshold could do the $50. Is that provided for in the code? Yes.

[03:18:30] Okay, so there's a section of the code that says if you've got a threshold, then you can charge a fee for under that threshold because that needs to be made clear if that's the case. I don't know how it's written in the code. We'd have to go back and look, but I know that's how it's implemented everywhere. You can't get out a B-POL tax.

[03:18:49] I get it, but the presentation that you're giving gives it a different impression entirely. And the threshold is in our county code as well. Okay. Okay, if we could go to slide 18. I kind of have an issue with perceived inequity between taxpayers at virtually the same income level. That's going to exist no matter where you set the threshold. And quite frankly, you know, if you're talking about a difference of $650 to $1,650 between taxpayer A and taxpayer B,

[03:19:28] it's such a negligible number. I mean, by my calculations, that's 13 one hundredths of a percent of their gross income to 33,100 of a percent of the income. If on a $500,000 of gross revenues, you can't afford that percentage in terms of taxation, then you're running so close to the line of failure, or you're already failing that, you know, that, that, that relatively small

[03:20:00] dollar amount isn't going to matter regardless. And, you know, wherever you set that threshold, you're going to have the same circumstance. So I kind of have an issue with that. And if we could go to slide 23. Before I move back, if I can clarify, please.

[03:20:18] The exemption, I'm proposing moving from a, we'll call it from a threshold to an exemption. So the exemption would be the first $500,000 is exempt for everybody. I get that, but I'm saying under the current policy, the differentiation is virtually nothing.

[03:20:34] If you move from a threshold of $500,000 to $600,000, you're always going to have that. So what problem are we fixing? I'm suggesting we move to an exemption and get rid of the threshold. We'll get to that in a second. Slide 23. Oh.

[03:20:52] It's interesting. I've kind of got a different take on this slide. What we're essentially doing is, and we've heard something similar to this argument earlier, is we're changing the playing field.

[03:21:11] And in order to make up the loss, we're suggesting, not initiating, but one of the suggestions is raise the rate. We'll save you this much, but we're going to raise the rate. and we're going to generate more revenue and I don't think that was the intent of anybody on this board and I'm sure I didn't hear anybody say that campaign on it or probably not willing to say it today because I certainly haven't so I'm certainly not um I would also question the county's ability

[03:21:41] to accurately and effectively collect all those new revenues given the somewhat limited resources we have in the issues that we currently have um I'm kind of I'm kind of of the mind if it ain't broke don't fix it um i haven't heard a whole lot of squawking about b-pole in recent years especially since the threshold was raised to 500k so as long as the businesses are relatively happy they're generating some amount of revenue that's diversifying the revenue stream uh i'm just not

[03:22:18] going to be inclined to rock the boat all right supervisor bode thank you madam chair and thank you michelle for bringing this forward um as you said i initiated this initiative this uh directive back earlier this year and something that I've been talking about for years and actually both of your options address what I was looking for um on one hand you have the fee and all the um relatively good things we might be able to achieve if we do that foremost of which is helping us identify that the business is out there not just hey here's your tax bill or here's your fee but welcome to Prince William County thank you for opening a business here are some of the resources

[03:22:55] we can give you to help you establish a firm's foundation and really help you to thrive so I appreciate you answering that but on the exemption side you hit the nail on the head too right now there is some perceived hey you know if i make if i'm making less than five hundred thousand dollars i pay nothing and then folks as they begin to progress in their businesses like you just identified one business they fall under that other side of the fence and suddenly they're having to pay something they didn't have to really pay before um so having it to be exemption sort of helps smooth out that runway at least a little bit so i appreciate that too um i did have two

[03:23:35] questions very briefly on slide 15 i appreciate this and it compares us to what our our neighbors are doing around the the region um is there are there differing things that each locality has to follow based on how they do it so for example i know you're proposing in in what you're offering to us is just everyone pays 50 bucks or everyone pays 30 or whatever it is and is there a difference between having it doing that way versus doing it this way where it looks like a lot of folks

[03:24:14] by and large are doing it at different levels of income they do it a different way yeah there the code does allow um doesn't specify how you have to implement it it does set maximums on if you choose to implement the fee and that's a may you can implement the fee at different classifications at different income levels and so you'll see there it's done you know very different ways by very different counties so no that's not dictated there's some guidelines that put out to the state and how to interpret the code but there is a lot of leeway on b poll on on how it gets structured sure and appreciate that in the same vein your very last slide under 25 where you

[03:24:52] have your the two options sort of in summary and your option one talks about directing draft ordinance to implement a filing requirement on all businesses within the county number two if we went down the road of implementing the exemption how much if at all would that change the filing requirements and would we change how we file based on that yeah so if we went with option two um that that you'd have that revenue loss of 4.2 million it's going to be a different number it's going to be a larger number by fiscal 26 we know that we have to we'll look at tax year 24 look at it again and probably build some growth in to estimate it um in terms of how it would be it would be

[03:25:31] effective then for we're asking like how how to implementate i'm going to go to the last um the last slide may right here so january of 2026 is what it would be effective for businesses so you would be you know implementing this as part of your adopted budget for fiscal 26 um and then we will um educate you know we'll have that time frame kind of like the food and beverage tax where we'll do outreach to businesses put update our website do social media posts get with the chamber so that those businesses that currently don't pay anything today know there is now a requirement for them um and so that would that's the way we kind of i think roll it out we obviously

[03:26:10] have to have all the public hearings and everything before we have to have the ordinance in place we'll have to involve the county attorney's office in reviewing the ordinances etc sure thank you for that and the last thing i'll say is touch us on something that supervisor we're just mentioned and you go back to slide 23 um yeah i i by no means ever meant for us to say then let's jack everything up to the statutory maximums to help pay for the costs to me again this should be a net good for the business community rather than something that says sort of get more revenue extract more more of their their their their business uh generation out of them um so that said on one hand i think that frankly in at least my one eighth we should do both we should do the

[03:26:49] exemption to help uh like i said straighten some of that runway out be something to say hey uh businesses we get it if you don't want to have a stark cliff where suddenly you have to pay more money because you're becoming more profitable or at least having more receipts being generated but also saying hey we also want to identify folks to your point that you may not know what you don't know in terms of what you need to be dealing with in terms of the county but two more importantly how can we make sure that we're identifying these folks to say hey welcome to the county how can we help you establish your business firmly and help you thrive so to me it

[03:27:22] makes the most sense to do both. And again, not raise the rates and sort of help work with and program it. The last thing I want to say, Madam Chair, if I don't mind, is we can talk about some You can do another round. All right, Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. So can you talk to me a little bit, help me understand what's included in retail services? So that would be any retailer your big box you know home depot shopping center stores so what do restaurants

[03:27:57] fall under uh they fall under their retail as well okay so um so we've got uh a lot of our small while we have the big box corporate we also have a whole heck of a lot of small businesses involved in the retail services okay i just want to get that clarity um so on option one you mentioned that we're going to need to add to, on slide 16, we would have to add two FTEs in order to implement this program. For option two, I'm assuming no additional FTEs would be required

[03:28:36] to implement this program. Likely no, because it's just a reconfiguration of our existing system. It's the same billing saying, you know, I don't think we would need. I will say for fiscal 26, We'll be coming with a request in tax admin as a whole, but not specifically because of this.

[03:28:53] Yeah, this isn't generating a requirement for additional FTEs. So, you know, so while the other one, option one, would technically increase tax revenue, it would end up eventually being a net zero because we're going to be spending money to collect the money.

[03:29:11] So this is really about just becoming more informed about our businesses in the community. Yes, more informed about our businesses, more proactive with our businesses. And there is a discovery aspect, you know, with some of these businesses who aren't filing today. They may be subject to personal property and not know it.

[03:29:27] So there may be some revenue generation that comes out of it in some of our other revenue sources. But it really is about, you know, the outreach, getting Christina and her team, hopefully, you know, providing that business assistant, particularly to those small businesses. Yeah. If I remember correctly, Supervisor Bozzi also has a directive related to the C&I tax, which would also affect everyone that we're talking about today.

[03:29:56] We also know that simply due to the fact that property values are going up as they are, that most of our businesses in the county are already having tax increases simply on property taxes. And depending on what kind of business they are, they're also having to deal with personal property taxes.

[03:30:18] I'm getting very nervous about the compilation of taxes and the growth of current taxes on our businesses in a time we're trying to retain our businesses, particularly in retail, particularly food retail, where the profit's only 1% to 3% on average, that we would in any way make that type of business It's even more difficult in Prince William County.

[03:30:44] And so, you know, if I had to choose between option one and option two, I'm looking for the one that reduces taxes on our business because I think taxes on them are already going up, and this gives us an opportunity for many of them to actually give them somewhat of a tax break, help us meet our needs to become more informed about the businesses in our community, but then look as we go forward on a more holistic tax package that as we start to look at these other taxes, I mean, for my 1-8, that's where I stand at this point.

[03:31:19] All right. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair, and you hit the nail on the head, Tom. You know, what about the businesses that don't care to be connected or don't care to be involved with the county, Michelle? They still may have a tax filing requirement.

[03:31:39] You know, we still can provide services and make them available. Yeah, but it should be up to them whether or not they want to engage in that. And that's the issue that we have with this, right? That we assume that everybody wants to be a part or that everybody wants for the county to be involved. And quite frankly, you know, my mom's a small business owner.

[03:31:56] She wants to make an honest living, provide for the couple employees that she has, and she wants the government to leave her alone. I mean, that's really the epitome of the American dream, right? Come here, make your dreams happen through honesty, integrity, and working hard. And that's the issue that I have with proposals like this.

[03:32:15] you hinder that variability. It's more regulation, more red tape. We talk so much about diversifying our commercial tax base, but initiatives like this push people out of Prince William County. It makes it difficult for small business owners to thrive. And I take issue with this.

[03:32:32] I leaned over to the chair and I asked her, what's the difference between this and the meals tax? Many of my colleagues up here campaigned on trying to repeal that very tax because it's been catastrophic for small restaurant owners. They've shut their doors forever. We're hindering their ability to put food on the table for their children and to provide for their families.

[03:32:51] And so it leads me to Supervisor Weir's point. What are we trying to fix? What are we trying to accomplish other than the idea, the attractiveness of generating more revenue so that we can, you know, hire two additional FTEs, continue to grow government, while people are literally trying to put food on the table and be left alone?

[03:33:08] I take issue with it. It doesn't sit well with me. It hits very close to home for me. Understood. Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. And this leads me to appreciate the comments on that. It leads me to something I was going to ask on my previous, but it came up earlier this year as folks were talking about the data center industry and folks that, frankly, especially those tenants and folks that sort of fly under the radar and how this may interact with that.

[03:33:33] So could you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, so data centers, there's only a few data centers that pay BPOL. Most of them are not subject to BPOL tax. Right, and their tenants wouldn't be either. And how does that work with identifying folks? the ones that offer services pay it sure so this is that there's an element there but it's not significant I just wanted to clear that yeah the significant piece on data centers is on the computer and peripherals and then secondly the real estate taxes the last question to go back to some of my colleagues and I understand where they're coming from with their concern about

[03:34:12] people leaving them alone just because someone isn't filing b-poll doesn't mean that they don't have other tax requirements they just don't know what they are necessarily because they don't have any interactivity with the government, right? That's correct. I actually see this proposal. It's not a revenue generator. $50 is $510,000.

[03:34:30] That's not a significant amount of revenue. You could do it at $10 and it's $250,000 total for the county in new revenue. It really is more about equity for all, making sure that all businesses that are required to pay taxes are paying their fair share. Because in today's age, you can operate a home-based business and very easily earn a million dollars from home.

[03:34:51] We wouldn't know when you exist. Right, and I appreciate it because I get it. I feel for the smaller businesses. We can talk about sort of the nuances there, making some folks who, you know, like other localities do. I know it's going to be administrative burden, but other localities do it, right?

[03:35:07] They have that nuance or that graduation where, to your point, if there's folks out there that are making millions of dollars and we just don't know they exist and they're not paying their fair share, I think that needs to be talked about too. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right, Supervisor Weir. To dovetail on that subject, in order to collect BPOL, you have to have a business license in the county.

[03:35:28] correct? Correct. What's required to have a business license in the county? You have to file for one. What's a requirement of filing? But all business, you have requirement of filing is today over $500,000. Do you have to have an occupancy permit? Well, then we can address one of the big problems we've got and one of the funding shortfalls we've got if indeed no certificate of

[03:36:03] occupancy is required for a business license. Because what I'm being told by the industry, at least the data center industry is, that their tenants consistently come into the tax office to get their, or the licensing office, to get their business license so that they can pay their data center taxes, their C&P taxes, whatever taxes they can pay, and they are consistently told, no occupancy permit, no business license. And they go round and round and round, and then they get frustrated, and they don't pull a business license. So they're non-existent to the county from a

[03:36:42] taxation standpoint, which leads me to question, how much money have we left on the table as a result of that circumstance? And it seems to me we're sort of, you know, here we are, we're piling on the ones that have to have an occupancy permit because they've got a physical location in the county, not just a stack of air with a bunch of racks in it. But if we're going to talk equity, I think we need to look at that portion of the equation as well. Sure, we can get a little bit.

[03:37:13] I know we work closely with folks in Wade's area in planning development services on that occupancy permit, making sure that we're sending businesses there first because we do want to make sure they probably, if they have a need to get an occupancy permit to open that business, we want to make sure they're aware of that as well.

[03:37:31] So there is that coordination between the two offices. This is not the first time I've raised this issue. Supervisor Angry. I wasn't going to chime in because, you know, but, you know, listen, we have a lot of businesses that aren't registered in this county.

[03:37:52] So it's not just a like a data center thing here or what's happening in there. I think to Supervisor Vega's point, because I to me, I'm even really confused because, you know, when I had my business brought it to the county, I went to the county building to register it because, you know, I just thought that was the legal process you had to do.

[03:38:11] Like, every business must go in if you got one to register with the county, and thus you fall into whatever these scenarios are going to play out to be for the tax purposes. Never got really a bill because, you know, you don't have a lot of computers or whatever. It was a leadership company. But the point is, you know, I thought, you know, I just assumed that if you start a business in the county, there was a process that you had to.

[03:38:34] I mean, a lot of people don't. I don't know if it's even, like, a legal process that you have to register your business in the county. because I know for a fact we have a lot of home businesses that aren't registered in the county. So we're not just talking about data centers and RACs and what they're doing inside of that.

[03:38:50] But if we're going to touch this, for me, I'm always trying to follow the laws of what those rules are. And if one person is playing fair, then everybody's supposed to play fair. But if that's not a process, then this whole presentation seems to be like, you know, so I don't even know.

[03:39:09] I just want to push that point out, the fact that if we're going to talk about businesses, period, then we're going to talk about all businesses and everybody in the county. Either we're going to do something about it or we're going to leave it alone. And I think that's where we are with this. I think that's a great transition to what I want to say is we have – so this is part of a directive.

[03:39:30] Supervisor Gordy has a directive looking at the meals tax, and you also have – Supervisor Gordy also has another directive looking at the CNI tax. I think it might be prudent for us to fulfill all the other two directives and then have a more comprehensive discussion at a later time because, you know, we're definitely not in agreement to move forward with an ordinance or anything, and I think that this deserves more discussion.

[03:39:52] And I really do appreciate the work that you and your team have done on this. I want to name that. So I don't, you know, if anyone has anything else, we can wrap this up. No? Anyone else on the list? All right. Thank you.

[03:40:07] And thank you for everyone. All right, so thank you so very much for your presentation. We are going to go into, you know, I'll let you tee up, Mr. Shorter, the next presentation.

[03:40:24] And I also think, supervisors, we need to talk about maybe giving us a little break. I can give us a little break next time between all these presentations because it's a lot. It's a lot. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and just want to thank Michelle Atreid and her team for the presentation and for the follow-up from the director, from our vice chair.

[03:40:43] I want to welcome now Planning to the podium to really as a follow-up to the discussion, the ongoing discussion we've been having about our ADU ordinance. They have done just a phenomenal job talking with community and within the organization in terms of all of the stakeholders involved.

[03:41:06] So this is a pretty comprehensive update, and I just want to, again, thank the team for all the work that they've done as I turn it over to the director. Good afternoon, board members, Tanya Washington, planning director. I am joined here today for this work session to focus on the draft affordable dwelling unit ordinance with the rest of our team.

[03:41:28] We have Mark McCaskill and Justin Patton from the planning office, deputy county executive Wade Hugh, housing director Joan Duckett, as well as deputy county executive Elijah Johnson. And again, we've worked on this as a team across our two quadrants and our agencies on this effort.

[03:41:53] So for today's presentation, this is an overview of what we would like to cover. I'm first going to give some background on affordable housing and the current need. This is really kind of a refresher of information and some key points that we shared at an earlier presentation back in May.

[03:42:11] And we are also going to give a summary of the public engagement process that we conducted in March and April and into May. During that process, we also collected demographics for the respondents who chose to respond to those questions for our online survey.

[03:42:29] So we're going to share some of that information. We're also going to talk about major themes that we heard from the community and stakeholder engagement. And then we will walk through the summary of changes from the February 20th draft ordinance. was the initial draft ordinance that we put out for initial public comment. One request that we got from the Planning Commission when we held an earlier work session with them was to provide a map of locations where the ordinance could potentially be applied. So we have that as well.

[03:43:02] Then we're going to talk through the remainder of the timeline for this effort and the next steps after the ordinance is hopefully adopted. So again, why is affordable housing important in prince william county again this is a slide that we shared earlier with the board you know this it's really important for uh to meet the needs of our diverse population we have retirees who could afford to age in place if they have more affordable housing they can stay in the communities where they've grown their families and have planted roots it helps to support quality of life by

[03:43:37] ensuring that our residents basic and lifestyle needs are met it also reduces the demand on the road network if we're able to provide housing that's affordable to our residents that is closer to where they work. Providing affordable housing is also an economic development tool. It helps to attract employers who want to make sure that their employees, whether they are new employees or county employees who can take advantage of these jobs, also have affordable places to live. And then it also helps to support our education and public sector workforce. So workforce housing is another important piece of affordable housing as well so that we can ensure

[03:44:16] that our public sector and schools employees can also live in a county where they are serving and that's actually a good segue for this slide again this is data that we shared at our previous presentation just to give a sense and sort of put a face on the types of jobs or occupations of our residents who would be in need of affordable and workforce housing this can range from bartenders and cooks in restaurants, motor vehicle operation, operators, legal

[03:44:49] secretaries, people who work in the construction fields, social workers, all the way up to electrical engineers. Another key consideration in terms of why affordable housing is needed is that this is an important issue not only for Prince William County, but for our entire region.

[03:45:11] Again, this is just a reminder of information we've shared before. the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments worked with the planning directors and housing directors of all of its member jurisdictions around this region. And ultimately, the COG board adopted a set of regional housing targets that identifies what is a projected need in terms of the number of housing units this region will need between 2020 and 2030. And the key point is that at least 320,000 housing units across the region should be added between 2020 and 2030.

[03:45:50] This is an additional 75,000 units beyond the units that were already forecasted for this period. One point I want to just note with regards to this, a question that has come up occasionally is, you know, what are those targets based on? Is this based on data from 2019?

[03:46:06] And it is not. These targets are based on forecasts, population, household, and jobs forecasts that COG develops along with its member jurisdictions and updates periodically. So it's very much forward-looking. It's projecting what the need is going to, what we anticipate the need will be based off of where our population will be in the coming years.

[03:46:28] With regards to the regional housing target, every jurisdiction that's part of COG has a piece of that larger number. And for Prince William County, it's 26,000 housing units by the year 2030, which equates to 26 housing units that is a target of what we hope to be produced in this county every year. But what we're seeing is that we are not meeting that annual target. We've been seeing as recently as 2023, you know, a target of actual housing production that's actually under 2,000 housing units. So it's still very much a concern in terms of what progress we're making

[03:47:07] as a county to produce housing units overall including affordable housing units the comprehensive plan also very much promotes the need for providing affordable housing in the housing chapter of the 2040 comprehensive plan there is under housing policy to creating new diverse housing communities any action strategies there are three of them that specifically reference affordable housing The first one talks about encouraging developments that provide affordable new market rate, mixed-use income, renter and owner-occupied housing.

[03:47:46] Encourage the geographic dispersion of affordable housing throughout the county, particularly in areas where existing supply is low. And then for the third one, it talks about permitting and encouraging higher-intensity multifamily living in activity centers, redevelopment corridors, and small area plans.

[03:48:05] It's part of both standalone and mixed-use developments to create mixed-income developments with affordable and workforce units. And then Housing Policy 3, Affordable Dwelling Units, specifically calls for the creation of the ordinance that we are discussing today to research, develop, adopt, and implement an Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance to provide incentives for the development community to voluntarily support the affordable housing needs of the county.

[03:48:30] This slide is just an illustration of the types of housing development that's likely to result from the Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance. And it can range from single-family detached housing, duplexes, townhouses, lower-scale multifamily up to higher-scale multifamily.

[03:48:52] The key point is that every type of housing is the opportunity to create affordable units. They don't have to only be in certain types of housing. And so we are hopeful that this ordinance will help to support the creation of affordable housing amongst this different mix of housing types.

[03:49:09] Which is really important because, again, our residents have a variety of needs in terms of the types of housing that will work for them and their families. So in terms of the public engagement process, I'm going to kind of walk us through what we've been able to accomplish.

[03:49:26] Back in March, I said May earlier, but it was actually March. I'm sorry, it was, we've been doing a lot of engagements, so I'm getting some of the dates mixed up. But in March, we actually held an initial work session with the Planning Commission that really talked about an overview of the need for affordable housing.

[03:49:45] So we went into a little bit more detail about those earlier slides that I provided. And then in March, we held stakeholder meetings with MVBIA, the Northern Virginia Building Industry Association. We met with VOICE, the Virginians Organized for Interfaith Community Engagement, and the Tenant and Workers United, as well as Northern Virginia Affordable Housing Alliance.

[03:50:09] These are key stakeholders, both the development community and affordable housing advocates, that we thought it was really important to talk with them and to have an initial discussion about the initial draft ordinance that we had available at that time. And then we held public engagement meetings.

[03:50:27] We held a public meeting at Furloso on March 21st. There was also a meeting on March 28th with the Housing Board. we held our second public meeting at Beacon Hall at George Mason University on April 3rd, followed the next day by a virtual public meeting.

[03:50:45] And then we held a work session with the Planning Commission specifically on the initial draft Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance on April 17th. We also met on April 25th with DORAC to get any feedback from them. And then during this time between March and April, we had an online comment form that was available our website for anyone to go and provide direct feedback on the draft ordinance itself as well as any feedback they'd like to share regarding housing issues this forum was promoted at all of our public engagement meetings and we encourage residents at those meetings they could provide

[03:51:23] feedback to us during those meetings or if they wanted to go home and think about it they could provide feedback through the online comment form we also promoted sharing that the link to the comment form to their friends and neighbors so that even if someone didn't attend one of our meetings they still had the opportunity to provide feedback and then in May as we were working to wrap up the initial set of revisions to the draft ordinance in preparation for a Planning Commission public hearing on May 22nd we got a request from MVBIA to see the

[03:51:58] latest draft at that time with the revisions that we had made at that date And so we provided that to them and then they in turn asked us to provide them with some time to provide some additional comments Initially, we gave them a day because we really were trying to stick with our timeline so that we can Get this to the Planning Commission, but they asked for a little bit more time. So we agreed to do that At the same time we decided that since we also consulted with voice as well as envy envy HA, we decided to reach out to them and we shared the revised draft at that time, this

[03:52:36] was in mid-May, to those organizations and also gave them the same amount of time to provide any additional feedback. We subsequently received comments and suggested edits from all three, actually four organizations, Voice and the Tenants and Workers United, they sent in a joint comment letter.

[03:53:01] So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Mark McCaskill to walk us through the demographics from the online comment form, as well as what we learned from public engagement, and then to walk us through the summary of the changes that we've made to the draft ordinance. Okay.

[03:53:28] Thank you, Director Washington, Madam Chair, members of Board of County Supervisors. For the online public comment period, for those who chose to answer, the vast majority either lived in the county or owned property in the county. Also, almost half of the respondents were from the Gainesville Magisterial District with a little over half with the other districts making up a little over half of the respondents.

[03:54:01] Most people preferred not to respond when it came to providing their race or ethnicity. And a similar thing with household income. Almost half preferred not to respond. However, of those who did respond, the majority of those who did respond were either in the top or the second to the top income brackets.

[03:54:25] So not just from the online survey, but from all of the feedback that we heard from all of these stakeholder meetings, from all of these different forums, these were the most commonly recurring. The most commonly recurring were I keep infrastructure demands and needs in mind when you're thinking of housing.

[03:54:48] Closely related to that were various comments on the notion of people needing to live near where they work in order to cut down on transportation demand and demand on the transportation system and housing needing to be provided near where people work. There was a lot of questions, and I think in the draft ordinance we did a lot of clarification of this 95% maximum.

[03:55:12] There were many reactions to code requirements from 15.2, 2305.1 that we have to have in an ordinance under that section, economic loss language and various requirements about waivers, questions about the housing trust fund and how that will be operated, various similar questions and feedback about the control periods, how long units would have to remain affordable, and also similar to the transportation questions about desiring proximity

[03:55:51] to transit. So the area median income definition, we did update that to the area median income that the county gets for its other housing projects that's a regional area median income that comes from housing and urban development.

[03:56:13] We also clarified a few things in the eligibility, and specifically rezonings, which will be the subject of a different slide. And we also removed the enforcement violations and civil penalties as redundant to that section that's already in the zoning code and applies to everything in the zoning code.

[03:56:34] So rezonings, it's important to note that the rezoning process is staying the same as it is. People will have to apply for rezoning. It will go through the full process, go to Planning Commission, Planning Commission, public hearing.

[03:56:50] It will come to you. You will vote on it. The rezoning process is not an administrative process. It will remain the same process as it has, same applications, same steps. The difference is now is that there will be two sources of guidance as the applicants are applying and going through the process for rezoning.

[03:57:15] There will be the comprehensive plan, as there always is, and then there will be this ordinance. This is a summary of how we're seeing the two sources of optional guidance for the rezoning process playing out. Well, one, the comprehensive plan speaks to 80% AMI to 120% AMI as workforce housing.

[03:57:37] So if a project comes in with workforce housing, it's really only the comprehensive plan and not the ordinance that provides any guidance whatsoever. Likewise, on the ordinance side, it speaks directly to 50% area median income and below, which is not mentioned in the comprehensive plan.

[03:57:57] The comprehensive plan only mentions 80% and 120%. Here's an example of a density bonus calculation using the tables in the ordinance. So let's imagine that we're in a long-range land use classification of the transect 3, the top of the recommended density range for transect 3.

[03:58:21] It goes from 4 dwelling units per acre to 12 dwelling units per acre. And let's imagine that there is a housing proposal, a housing project, that in order to pencil out, needs a little over 14 dwelling units per acre.

[03:58:37] Well, one way to get there would be if they're voluntary providing 10%, 80% area median income units, then they could get a 20% density bonus.

[03:58:53] So that would be 12 dwelling units per acre times 1.2, so they would get a little over 14 dwelling units per acre. Alternatively, if they voluntarily provide 5% at 50% area median income or below, then it would be the same calculation. Other changes is clarifying some language around the 95%.

[03:59:19] A lot of developers also make use of the state program called Low Income Housing Tax Credit. It's a state and federal program, but they have to apply through the state. So for these LIHTC programs, they have a lot of strenuous requirements of their own.

[03:59:37] So it was clarification exempting LIHTC projects from all but C, which has to do with access to common space. Because we didn't want any local ordinance to disqualify someone by having a conflicting requirement from a LIHTC program to disqualify someone from trying to pursue low-income housing tax credits.

[04:00:02] Clarification around some application and submittal requirements and also added an effective date of January 1st, 2025. This is primarily to be able to get two sets of operating procedures documents, one in development services, one in housing and community development, and also to be able to staff up before people start applying under this program.

[04:00:32] So as was mentioned before, as the planning director mentioned before, the planning commission asked for an evaluation of where some potential locations are that if the ordinance were approved, where it could be effective right away.

[04:00:51] So the methodology that we used is the data source that we have are our current pipeline of rezoning cases. So the methodology that we used is could that project create five or new affordable dwelling units?

[04:01:07] Was it a large enough scale project? Was it in a part of the county that would allow for at least one dwelling unit per acre? because there are some parts of the rural county where they wouldn't even be able to fulfill the one dwelling unit per acre, was the project already under construction, then only those not under construction would be evaluated.

[04:01:29] And did the project already have conditional rezoning or proffers that had already provided for affordable dwelling units and had been voted on? So the map that follows are the results. So the blue dots are the projects that in the past that did have affordable housing as part of the proffered conditions.

[04:01:57] However, they're still yet unbuilt. They proffered affordable units. They're on the books, but they're still somewhere in the process, and they haven't been built on the ground yet. The red dots are the potential locations. These are rezoning cases from the past that did not proffer affordable dwelling units.

[04:02:18] However, if this ordinance is approved, then these are the areas where at the site plan or the subdivision level, if they found out that they needed a little bit extra density to pencil out or something along those lines, they could go in under the ordinance at that point and potentially add affordable dwelling unit ordinances, add affordable dwelling units to an existing approved project at the site plan or the subdivision level.

[04:02:49] This is a very conservative estimate, just based on past cases that we have in the planning office. We don't have a countywide econometric model in order to evaluate potential supply and demand and other market dynamics.

[04:03:07] So we had to only look at the cases that we have of record in our system. So with the timeline, we're here in front of you today for this work session. We are rescheduling the planning commission that was originally scheduled for, I believe, for tomorrow, is going to be rescheduled closer to your July 16th public hearing.

[04:03:39] And should the ordinance be approved in the future, next steps, this is just the first step of a process of addressing affordable housing. Next steps we could look into in future endeavors include incentive zoning.

[04:03:57] That's a whole separate state enabling legislation, specifically accessory dwelling units and other missing middle housing types and also there's a potential of a review of the prince william zoning code to try to uncover any additional opportunities to help provide for affordable housing because any zoning code might have might have provisions that were put in long ago that we're not aware of on a daily basis or they don't come up all the time but they're

[04:04:28] actually serving as barriers to affordable housing and that's it all right thank you so very much i am we do have a number of people in queue but i am reaching out to supervisor franklin because she i know made a directive on this so i want to see if she had the first question sent her a text

[04:04:57] supervisor franklin would you like to go first all right she might be tied up so i will go to um supervisor weir thank you madam chair and my first questions are for uh miss washington can you tell me why the planning office chose to use 15.2 stroke 2305.1 as the basis for the ordinance i'd like mark mccaskill to help address that question that is something that i believe we discussed at the

[04:05:35] previous uh session uh with the board yes um approximately a year ago um before any of the draft ordinances were written um and before the consultant was engaged um we brought this question up through leadership and at the time we decided on 15.2 2305.1 primarily because it had the potential for providing more housing. We being who? The chain of command and the leadership

[04:06:12] from the planning office up through. Are you aware of any other jurisdiction in the Commonwealth that has based their ADU ordinance on this particular section of the state code? No I'm not. So we are the first one? To the best of my knowledge yes. So we're the guinea pig.

[04:06:30] Well, I think the important point to note is that the state code provides these different sets of enabling authorities, and it's really up to the jurisdiction that would be eligible to use either one of those to decide which one to use. It's ultimately a policy decision.

[04:06:47] And a policy decision is set by the Board of County Supervisors. And I would suggest that given no other jurisdiction, rural, urban, mixed, has chosen, has elected to use this underlying section of the state code should signal something to the Planning Commission that there's something inherently wrong with it.

[04:07:08] We're not eligible to use 04, but every other jurisdiction from urban areas like Richmond to suburban counties has used the other section of the code because, quite frankly, this basis is unsustainable. I've got a couple of other questions.

[04:07:26] As you're well aware, I've been opposed to this version since day one. Given the number of zoning text amendments that have been directed over the last several years, why did this one take only three months to get to us? I started working on this effort in February after I joined the planning office.

[04:07:50] So I think the members of the team could probably speak more to the history of when this was initiated. I'll make it simple. Do we have longer outstanding zoning text amendments, some of them from a statutory nature that are still unfinished? Yes, that is correct.

[04:08:06] Okay. Page five, you go significantly into COG forecasts. does anybody in the planning office receive a paycheck from COG or do all their paychecks come from Prince William County? It's a rhetorical question. COG is supported by all of the member jurisdictions throughout this region, counties, cities, and other localities that are COG members.

[04:08:28] Ms. Washington, I wasn't elected by COG. I don't represent COG. Nobody on this board represent COG. We represent the residents, voters, and businesses of Prince William County, and I don't give a damn what COG's projections or what COG's numbers tell us that we have. I would ask that we respect the staff who are providing information to the board. My apologies, Madam Chair, but I do not work for COG, and I don't care what their projections are. We should be focusing on what

[04:09:05] the county needs are, not some arbitrary number established by a multi-jurisdictional, multi-state board. And I would reiterate that the effort to create the regional housing targets, this was something that I was a part of, so I have direct knowledge of it. It was very much a joint effort across multiple localities in this region, planning directors and housing directors. There's two committees within COG that brings together all the planning directors in this region. Again, I'm more concerned with what the county's needs are than COG's. If I could just add, just to close that

[04:09:40] out. That analysis incorporated data and information from all the member jurisdictions. I'm going to let you go for the next round. All right. Supervisor Franklin wanted to weigh in.

[04:09:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for that. And thank you, Mr. Shorter, for attempting to tame the temperature, because quite frankly, it was unnecessary. This is about affordable housing. The fact that we're creating an ordinance here should be celebrated.

[04:10:17] And I understand needing to get it right the first time, and certainly I am of most interest in having that done. But it shouldn't be at the expense of disrespecting staff, especially a planning director who hasn't been here for the duration of the three years in which we've been trying to get this done.

[04:10:35] I do agree that we're late in having this discussion, but quite frankly, it's not her fault that we're just not getting to this. is not even the county executive's fault. And so anyway, just want to make that clear. Let me just start by saying that, again, I think this is incredibly important for us to even be here in this moment. Prince William County obviously does not have an ordinance similar to other similarly situated counties, and yet we are the second largest jurisdiction in the Commonwealth. And quite frankly, when I'm speaking to constituents, transportation and housing are

[04:11:13] their two biggest issues. It's so expensive to find a place to live. And so I think that making sure that we have some type of ordinance in place is going to be important. I think the legislative language that we are using to draft this ordinance gives us the most flexibility, quite frankly. And I think that certainly with us starting off, that's important to make sure that we have as many tools and tool shed to do this as properly. You guys have heard me say this before. My biggest thing is making sure that the programs that we set up under housing can

[04:11:50] go directly to constituents as much as possible. And I know that I've spoken to Elijah and Chris about at least having a similarly situated program where we can do some type of housing assistance, similar to what we did under COVID. Because while I like the idea of having this ordinance incentivize affordable dwelling units. I still want to make sure we have some type of program that can go directly to helping to pay mortgage assistance to helping to pay rental assistance for those that fall on hard times. So that would be a most concern for me making sure

[04:12:26] that those who are in an immediate housing crisis can have resources from this county at least for the next three to five months of them getting back on track. So if someone can just address that particular concern, that would be great.

[04:12:55] Elijah Johnson, in reference to your question, in reference to other programs, the ordinance specifically is not addressing those particular programs.

[04:13:14] We have advised that we would like to work with the board on coming up with what those programs would be. I know my staff is reaching out to your team to set up a meeting so that we can have follow-up questions about exactly what you're looking for so that we can work out the details of what that looks like and come back to the board to present options for you.

[04:13:34] Yep, that's great. And Madam Chair, I'm going to turn it back to you. But again, that's of most concern to me, making sure that we have some type of program. And Elijah, I know you and I have talked about this, and if I need to issue a directive, I'm happy to do that. But I just want to make sure that we have some type of program where assistance can be sent directly to residents that are in an immediate housing crisis.

[04:13:56] So again, thank you for this draft ordinance. I certainly think we are going in the right direction. I think, again, creating kind of this similarly situated program that can help those in immediate need, I think it's important, but I think this can help us get to the long-term need.

[04:14:14] So thank you guys again. All right, thank you. And Supervisor Franklin, just so you know earlier, Mr. Johnson had a no. All right, Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to Ms. Washington and all the rest of the team that has been working on this for a little while.

[04:14:33] I appreciate where we've come and where we are. I know, as Supervisor Franklin just said, it's been sort of a long road to get here, so I wanted to highlight that, and an uplifting effort's been done up until right now. A question, and Ms. Washington, this is not going to come as a surprise because I asked it through email a little bit earlier.

[04:14:57] Why was the ordinance changed from being Prince William County's AMI to the Washington, the DCVA, MD, HUD, Metro area? What we wanted to, in reference to implementing these programs and as we looked at other jurisdictions, they aligned those AMIs with our other programs and services.

[04:15:23] For example, our first-time homeowners program follows those HUD guidelines, and we want folks who are going through those programs to be able to take advantage of them. By aligning to those HUD definitions, it gives you a broader band of incomes that could qualify for these units versus using just the county's median income alone.

[04:15:41] Appreciate that. And second is to look at the actual numbers. What's the difference between the PWC AMI versus the regional AMI that was sent? I have the information that we sent you earlier today. So the HUD area median income limit is currently $154,700.

[04:16:04] And the data that is on a county's website regarding the 2022 county median income is $123,193. So the county's AMI level is lower. Appreciate that. And why I ask that question is, and Elijah, I appreciate your context there, Because what I was worried about is that from making that change that we would somehow shift the AMI up in a way and thus make it so we're actually unfortunately making things less affordable.

[04:16:32] Because you can see it conceivably, right, that we're shifting that AMI up. Then that means even at 80%, that 80% with the HUD area of income is actually higher than it is for the Prince William County area. So as long as we're handshaking in a way that that's not the effect, I want to make sure that we're doing that.

[04:16:50] because I didn't want that to be a change that inadvertently made this undermine the whole point, which is to make it so we're locking in units at a much more affordable level for our constituents. So I appreciate the clarity on that. My only other question, since we were talking about enabling legislation, in all your folks' opinion, one, out of the two lines of code that we do have access to,

[04:17:19] is Prince William County is this more flexible or less flexible or is it just different it's it's both different and um more flexible in the sense of um avenues to get more housing appreciate that because I appreciate it because I at least somewhat remember some of my colleagues can chime in on this that we were given access and and information about the two lines of code a year ago and then two years ago even and we gave not complete clear directional approval but

[04:17:57] most of us received a right of consensus that we wanted you all to explore this one more emphatically than the other one. So I wanted to highlight that. But two, most importantly for lines of code, I would like to remind everyone at this dais that we did have a bill going through Richmond this year that would have given us the most flexible line of code that Fairfax uses and that other folks that have the urban style county executive line of government are able to use that got killed by veto by the governor so that said i would love for us to avail ourselves of the most flexible line of code currently that's not able to be availed by us we're at least doing with the best

[04:18:36] what we have currently have access to so i wanted to again applaud you all for getting this done and getting as far as you have thank you madam chair supervisor angry thank you madam chair so a quick history lesson in 2019 uh the world affordable came up because i mentioned it and we started exploring it i look around this room and i see only a handful of people who are still even uh here in this room when we were discussing that in 2020 three of you on this board weren't even on this board and we made that decision to get where we are where we are today

[04:19:12] with this housing chapter that's basically five years ago and this is where we are um i will say this we have overcrowding i'm talking to the board here so you all just get to listen in now we have overcrowding in many of our districts and the issue is that we need more housing we've known this so whether it's a car driven what we need we can run our own numbers and projections and i'll tell you right now we need more housing now there's a lot going on neascar right now we got a lot of buy right going up some apartments some townhouses some two over twos even got a huge development with the courts i believe at this point and i'm gonna take a lot of hits from folks saying it's

[04:19:50] It's too dense in Neopsco now for, you know, cars and roadway. I'm going to take a hit on that. But we're solving a problem that we have a housing shortage. Now, one thing I'm just really sad to see is that graphic, the study you guys did. That really should have had more representation from folks who truly need housing.

[04:20:10] And, you know, the fact that you've got a larger pie out of Gainesville, it just really is concerning for me. Because, you know, there's so folks should have answered this question and given us what you all needed to really be successful to put this together.

[04:20:27] I'm saddened by these numbers here. So can't do anything about that. The one thing I want to make a comment to this board on is your last. If you go back to the slide that you were talking about with all the districts and the density, like like the fact that we need this affordable housing in districts.

[04:20:43] This is right here. This is a decision that we really need to make on this board, because here's the problem. You have the residents, and I'll agree with that. One thing about the residents, nobody wants to see any more development. But everyone complains about overcrowding in their neighborhoods, you know, and it's just not about an older home.

[04:21:00] You're seeing it in million-dollar homes where two and three families are living in those homes just to make that mortgage. So we have a true problem that this board is going to have to figure out where we're going to place these high-density communities in seven districts. And if we can't do it, I'll say right now to you all that maybe we need to get Richmond to drive us to give us you know some type of legislation that says we have to do it you know because if we're not going to be up here to do this ourselves because we're worried about the constituents they don't want to in their neighborhoods then we need to get someone to do that for us so no questions just comments thank you madam chair supervisor gordy thank you madam

[04:21:39] chair and i want to first thank uh supervisor bode about the questions on the amis because that was going to be my first one um to kind of get back uh to uh cog and one of the things that talks about at least 75 percent of new housing should be affordable to low and middle income households the problem that we have particularly in my district is we have no supply for those at 120 percent of ami and that's where we have a 35 000 unit deficit according to cog in every other income bracket we have surplus but at this top end in the past decade we have not we built 90

[04:22:18] percent of the homes that were built in the Brentsville district were townhouses nothing wrong with townhouses but we didn't build single-family homes well as soon as a single-family home goes on the market it's being bid up and therefore it's setting the rate for all other homes so if we don't address that top end we're never going to solve an affordable crisis we have to meet the need at the top because everything else flows down. And so I do disagree with Cog on that. And so I'm trying to, um, and I do, but I do like the fact that on the, uh, two slides next

[04:22:52] is the, um, um, the, the different portfolio of homes, because right now you literally have townhouses, single families, or 10 acre lots and nothing in between. It is a lack of creativity in our development community that um and and it shouldn't necessarily be simply because we're trying to do affordable housing we need to give people these options um and so that's one of the things that we've been trying to do is to give us a better portfolio rather than just one of two

[04:23:24] options um one question i do have in relation to the um ordinance when you get to um somewhere here it talks about when the person respond oh here it is in section 32-290.05 application review procedures for density bonus it says it shall be filed with the zoning administrator or their designee why is this not filed in the application on the front end and if it's not filed and then

[04:24:00] the developer moves forward to the zoning administrator for development services after approval does the zoning administrator then get to override what was approved by the planning commission of the board in order to accommodate whatever the developer wants I'm just trying to realize understand what this process is and whether or not the zoning administrator now can override proffers or other decisions that were made through this process so a couple of things

[04:24:36] again as we noted with the more recent changes to the draft ordinance we are now making rezonings possible to take advantage of the bonus density sort of program that's within the ordinance and essentially of the way that would work and mark please chime in with this they would take advantage if a developer who wants to do a rezoning in a county again they could assuming the board passes the draft ordinance as we have proposed today they could either use the guidance that's in a comprehensive plan to figure out you know if I provide 10% units and

[04:25:13] I get certain amount of bonus density or they could choose to use the provisions that are in the draft ordinance all of that would be going on while the application is going through the rezoning process and so that essentially would become part of their proffers if they chose to take advantage of the bonus density program so to speak that's in a draft ordinance that will be part their proffers and so it will go through that process i think in terms of you know what the handoff will be to the zoning administrator at that point in terms of the administrative procedures we still have to work through that and we've you know we've been working with development services

[04:25:50] to think through that but but ultimately you know the the notion is that uh for rezoning they would they could choose from one of these two options if they chose to participate uh to provide voluntarily provide affordable housing units but that this would all be part of the public process that rezonees go through and mark chime in if there's anything that I missed well in the zoning administrator or their designee as part of the state enabling legislation and they actually put a 30-day time clock on that so and in our call and our colleagues in the planning office and

[04:26:26] development services are coming or are drafting a document of procedures and all that but the way i've always understood this is that the um initially before the reason and in a case of rezoning initially before the rezoning application they would apply to the zoning administrator or their designee and it's essentially a check to make sure their math and assumptions are right like here we are voluntarily offering 15 of at this level we we calculate that that would give a bonus density of this so on and so forth and at that point even before a a rezoning application

[04:27:04] is filed upstairs with us in the planning office that there would be this 30 days to kind of verify that this isn't they're eligible they're they're eligible with according to the law and their math is correct um i as far as the question of the zoning administrator overriding the board i i would defer to the uh county attorney's office but i i do not believe so madam chair members of the board and i'll ask my staff to correct me if i get this wrong um but supervisor gordy i think what you're saying is there's a property owner or a developer that is

[04:27:43] interested in getting increased density on their project there are two ways that that developer or owner can do that the one can go through the rezoning process so they would file the rezoning application it would go through the process with planning all the review agencies it would go to a Planning Commission public hearing it would come to the Board of County Supervisors public hearing and maybe they would utilize if the board adopts this ordinance guidance of how much they would be willing to do etc for increased density or if they're going to

[04:28:18] be providing affordable housing units however that's one way they could go forward another way is if the board adopts this ordinance that's the board's legislative action and now it's totally administrative and that's why they go directly to the zoning administrator because it's not coming to the board anymore the board is adopt if the board adopts this ordinance and it has the charts in there and says if they want to increase their density they can get the density bonus provided they provide X number of units as either low income or

[04:28:57] very low so that's why it would go immediately to the zoning administrator because if they're going under that the affordable dwelling unit ordinance it's not coming to the board so it's a buy right development so it's buy right but they want to increase the density and so they're gonna go to the zoning administrator and file there and go through this ordinance and they're going to be getting increased density with the understanding that X percentage will be affordable and they get the quick turnaround in the review, et cetera.

[04:29:33] So that's, the zoning administrator is not contradicting or usurping the board's authority. And if I can also just add, when we initially brought this draft ordinance and released it publicly, the intent was that it would only apply to by right development.

[04:29:49] So in that instance, that is, of course, an administrative process where they would go directly through those steps. It was through the public engagement process where we heard feedback, particularly from affordable housing advocates, that this option should also be applied or should be available for projects that are going through the rezoning process.

[04:30:09] Because they want, they advocate, and when I'm saying they, specifically MVHA and Voice and Tenants United, They provide a feedback that rezoning should be able to take advantage of the bonus density provisions in this ordinance.

[04:30:26] In addition to buy right development so that the county is making these options available for any type of development, whether it's going through the formal public review process, through board approval or through the buy right process. I hope that's helped provide some clarification.

[04:30:43] Yeah, and I know I'm one more time. I just want to thank you all for answering this question. But what it just did for me is open up a Pandora's box in fear that just like what we've seen in some of the industrial redevelopments, that we will get a development done and then they will come back in because now they have by right after we've gone through all the process to deal with schools, to deal with transportation, to deal with all the mitigating things related to that development, and then all of a sudden now, because they have by right, they can now come back in and increase density,

[04:31:23] in some cases up to doubling that density. And now we have no influence over the impact on schools, the transportation, the parking, any of that type of stuff. So this actually makes it more scary for me personally.

[04:31:41] Like I said, if everybody were angels, I wouldn't have a problem. But that's not what we're dealing with with our development community. Sorry. Thank you. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. First thing I want to say is just to know what Supervisor Franklin has says, Ms. Washington and Joni, y'all are doing an impactful job with your team.

[04:32:07] And so our job is not to sit here and terrorize you. It's to appreciate you. And I absolutely appreciate the work that you've done. Because as Supervisor Angry says, we've been working on this a long time. And to come to this spot right now, it's a great thing.

[04:32:22] It's a very positive thing. Why? Because we need housing. People want to live in Prince William County. That's the bottom line. But we do need to have a variance of housing here. We've had a lot of 10-acre lots, which are beautiful. I don't live on one, but I wish I did.

[04:32:39] And we've had a lot of single-family dwelling and a lot of townhouses, as Supervisor Gordy has said. So now we need something different, because what I would like for us to see or to consider in this is a 30% AMI.

[04:32:54] That's something we haven't addressed at all, because I'm thinking about my Marines who want to live here with their young families, or they come in single, or the older Marines that retire, the seasoned Marines that retire, and they want to stay here.

[04:33:10] And so that is very important. And then workers, we heard today when we were talking about, during public comment time, about workers that are here that just want to stay here and do their work, work on jobs. So that's very important. And so we really need to hone in on that a little bit more.

[04:33:29] If you will, that would be my desire. If you hone in on that a little bit more, I love the different types of housing that you're presenting here, but we do need a variance of housing. The other thing that I want to bring to your attention is the fact that when we talk about the organizations that we're working with, and the Tennis Association and Boys, those are very strong organizations in our community that contribute to our community, that have input, NVBIA have input.

[04:34:03] You know, all of that helps us to understand and to craft and frame where we're going with this housing ordinance and the type of housing. and so we and and cog as well we sit on these boards for a reason some of us may sit on the boards just to check the box but some of us sit on there to work and working the boards that as we're working it gives us a guideline it's not etched in stone that we have to do what they tell us to do that's not why we're there we're there to get a guideline and to and hopefully talk intelligently to you about what we want because you want to know what we want and so as madam

[04:34:42] chair would say I'm naming it I'm naming it right now because that's why COG exists and it didn't just start and I'm picking on COG because my colleague picked on COG and you know I want the community to understand that COG doesn't govern us we govern y'all we tell y'all what we want you know but that gives us a guideline and so I don't want when you mention to us when you recurgitate back to us that you've used the guideline the framework I don't want to beat you up for that because we as elected officials you know maybe some of us are smart enough to

[04:35:18] give guidelines but you know nine out of ten we aren't okay so I want to say that but I do want to focus on that 30% AMI that's critical to me that's that's very important to me that people who live here that's what builds equity in what we do and so that's very important that's very important and so let me apologize to you miss washington because you we brought you here because you know what you're doing you brought montgomery county and used to live here you're invested here

[04:35:52] let me apologize to you for offending you in any way because you do a good job in the short time that you've been here but please teach us all of us because we don't have the answers please teach us when we are trying to engage with you on camera teach us what that means because people want to live in Prince William County. They absolutely do. And we got to quit talking about what we're going to do. And we got to be like Nike. We got to do it. And I use acronyms like that because I want to be very understandable to our community across this county. And at the end of the day, in this

[04:36:29] very diverse, 10th largest in this country, we must offer an element of equity, particularly in housing. So if you can get me to that 30%, consider that. The ordinance is great. I appreciate it.

[04:36:45] I really appreciate it. Thank you, Madam Chair. Do you guys want to respond? We will certainly go back and look at how we could incorporate 30% AMI level into the ordinance. We'll have to go back and discuss that as a team, and we can come back to the board with our recommendations or response to that. All right, thank you. I'm going to go out of order because Supervisor Vega hasn't had a chance to speak. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think all of us up here are all for doing it, but we

[04:37:18] have to be thorough and we have to be cautious as to how we do it, right? So what Supervisor Gordy just raised, it is alarming. I'm going to keep reverting back to our strategic planning process. Mr. Shorter, you attended mine and so did Mr. Haynes. Folks talk about the lack of infrastructure. Folks talk about how rapidly we have grown as a county and how we continue to put the cart before the horse. I'm looking at slide 5. 26,000 housing units by the year 2030. That is a

[04:37:57] lot of houses. A lot. Where do they go? I hear the frustrations from my colleagues on the east end when they talk about already being at capacity. So at what point is Prince William County going to reach its max that that that that that is a question because again it's on paper or on this slide 26,000 houses is a lot so this was actually a question it reminds me of a question that you raised the last time we discussed this effort with the board which is if I recall correctly

[04:38:34] please correct me if I'm not stating this the way you stated it but the question was basically is there a point a maximum in terms of housing units for the county and my recollection of what I responded to at the time is that that number is is never fixed because the population of the county is already forecasted to continue to grow we don't have it in this slide deck but i referenced earlier the population household and jobs forecasts that are done for the entire region and in every locality has a part of that in fort prince william county the in that forecast the current one goes

[04:39:12] all the way up to 2050 and if i'm recalling correctly the county's population is forecasted to be over 550 000 at that time and currently it's just under 500 000 and so that is really kind of in referring to the housing targets and again appreciate the comment that they are aspirational targets it's it's it's to help us kind of understand what the need is a future need because the population will continue to grow in the future there isn't sort of a point where we will have the maximum number of housing units and that would meet all the needs because we will

[04:39:48] continue to have residents either moving into the county having children you know and helping to expand the population so that number will continue to grow the 26 000 is just over a 10-year period between 2020 and 2030 based off of the projected need and so you know again we just have to be mindful of the fact that the need for housing is continuous and but in terms of having targets it helps us to track again what do we project the need will be at a certain time period and then we can look at what's being produced in the county and then look at strategies for how we can support

[04:40:28] more housing production supervisor gordy you noted earlier the need for housing for more higher income households and that's very much a part of the larger picture as well and not having that supply for higher income households actually reduces the pool of a housing that's affordable for the residents who really need that because then they will go and take advantage of those units because that's what's available and so you so again I you know hopefully that that addresses your question that the number is never really fixed at any given time but the larger questions of how do we manage housing growth population growth infrastructure

[04:41:06] those are continuous efforts that we always have to be mindful of but again keeping in mind that the county as we all know is still continuing to grow and so the need for housing will grow along with that i don't like the uncertainty but i understand uh your your response to my question now considering the fact that this is you said a 10-year period what are we going to do to measure population growth because you know some can disagree and say that you know population is actually decreasing, especially when you compare numbers to Fairfax and other neighboring jurisdictions.

[04:41:37] So do we have anything in place where we're constantly evaluating that to address needs, or are we just going to stick to the number and go with it? Well, again, the purpose of the forecast is really just to try to give a sense and an understanding where the population could be in the future and what the related household growth, job growth would be.

[04:42:00] So it's really intended to be a tool to help localities understand and kind of plan for how we can accommodate that future growth. Because it's really about looking forward and trying to be more proactive in accommodating what could happen in the future.

[04:42:18] But with regards to looking at the specific numbers, and again, if I can maybe just point out the fact that, you know, What we're here to discuss today is the draft ordinance, not the COG forecast, the cooperative forecast. If the board is interested in getting more information about the forecast and how it works in the methodology, we're happy to follow up with COG to get that information.

[04:42:39] I am, and I bring it up because these are COG numbers that we're utilizing to guide us. And so, again, I think it is important for the discussion. So if we can, I know my time is limited, and you responded to Supervisor Gordy also. But let me ask just one more question, Madam Chair, and then I'll wait for my second round.

[04:42:58] Supervisor Angry talked about the need, you know, for housing, and nobody's denying that we need that and that we need to diversify our housing options. But at the same time, to the concern that was raised by Supervisor Gordy, when applicants can bypass, pretty much, and ask for double the amount of units, that is frightening because we can't forget about the strain that that adds to our schools it's not just overcrowding in housing it's overcrowding in school overcrowding on the road and then our public services that we that we provide to to the citizens of this county all of that is impacted

[04:43:35] and so you know I hope that we continue to talk more about this today so that we get it right because once it's out it's out and they're going to use it as their guide you know to to do whatever it is that they're going to do and i'll remind my colleagues because i know that you've had these conversations too i've had developers tell me they'll proffer a certain number of adus to get it through but that they're not in the affordable dwelling housing business okay and so i want to make sure that whatever proffers are being made that we have legal teeth to hold them accountable and that the ordinance doesn't give them a way out and that's going to be the next line of

[04:44:14] questioning that i have for my second round madam chair all right i'm going to quickly interject more or less for commentary rather than questions, because I know a lot of people have questions. But I want to say this. The COG projections for housing are projections. As you said, they're, you know, Ms. Washington said, they're aspirational.

[04:44:30] There is no penalty, I believe, right? There is no penalty. There's nothing they can do to us if we don't meet these objectives. But I want to be clear. We are a growing community, and it is better to be a growing community than a shrinking community. Because I have lived in cities that are losing population, that are losing residents.

[04:44:51] And that is not a place where we want Prince William County to be. So for me, this is an issue of growth. We are growing. How do we grow? How do we do so in a way that is sustainable, that we are making sure that we have the right infrastructure, and that we are also not pricing out a lot of our long-term residents?

[04:45:15] Because that's a big concern that I had, or a big concern that I heard on the doors. particularly, you know, I'm actually going to name the Neabsco District. I met so many retirees who were like, I cannot afford to live in this county anymore because of rising taxes, rising other, you know, myriad of issues. But I also want to hit on, when we talk about affordable housing, we need to also specify between rentals and homeownership. They are both very important.

[04:45:42] With Supervisor Gordon, what you're mentioning is more housing needed at the top end. Yes, we do. We absolutely need more housing at the higher end, but that's also homeownership. And we have to be mindful when we're talking about creating housing opportunities it has to be for everyone at every income level there are certain areas where we know we have more um challenges you know the quote-unquote missing middle well that's again partially because we don't have enough housing at the upper end and that's forcing people to go down but we also don't have enough opportunities for affordable home ownership again this is not something this is really targeted towards you know

[04:46:17] this is more targeted towards rentals and i i do want to say for me this is um an important issue it's it's you know what drove me what brought me to prince william county what drove me out of city of alexandria i was a health staffer with seven seven thousand dollars in student loans which thank god you know i have since paid off as a single mom i could not afford to remain in the city of alexandria it was a struggle for me it was harder for me to finally buy that house you know um and it was a little bit more but it made more financial sense and i also want to name again

[04:46:56] we have it in this slide but i want to name who these people are because i have received emails um about people who are concerned about affordable housing because it's going to bring more crime these people you know not everyone who needs affordable housing is going to is a criminal is moving to a neighborhood people have dreams we talk about the american dream we talk about people wanting better for themselves and their children housing is a key part of that and having economically diverse racially diverse you know neighborhoods is really important and it does

[04:47:32] help people we don't want to um segregate people to any one area and that's a real concern that's something i just wanted to name that's not something we're talking about but that is that's a real concern with a lot of people in this dais and a lot of housing advocates so i just wanted to take my you know a few minutes to make that statement that you know this is going to get this is a heated discussion and it's going to be a heated discussion because not everyone agrees about what growth looks like and how we grow but i do agree we this is a discussion that needs to

[04:48:10] be had it is not going to be a one and done discussion but i do want to emphasize i am committed to affordable housing because housing is opportunity you know having a stable place to live It is one of our most basic, it's one of our three basic needs.

[04:48:32] And I do want to name earlier, Supervisor Baker, you mentioned BPOL, something about it being partisan. Housing is probably going to be partisan for us because there are different, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be, but probably will be because it's different ideological viewpoints on this.

[04:48:49] But again, I just want us to continue to have this conversation in good faith and to really discuss all the nuances because we do have to get it right. And with that, I am going to go over to Supervisor Ware, and Supervisor Bob, please be kind.

[04:49:05] Okay, let's not drive off our staff. No, I'm not going to apologize. My constituents in my district wouldn't expect me to apologize. And quite frankly, I think there's members of this board that should apologize for actions over the years. I do not come to these meetings unprepared, as some would suggest.

[04:49:23] I read everything. I understand the basis. I look at the underlying state code. Enough on that. Thank you, Supervisors Vega and Gordy for teeing me up because you hit on the heart of the matter. And it was my next point. If you go to slide 18, and I quote, the planning office analyzed the residential inventory component of the county's build-out analysis to determine potential sites with previously approved rezoning cases that could meet the county's ordinance's eligibility criteria and could therefore voluntarily request bonus density under the proposed affordable dwelling unit ordinance, which is going to be done administratively within the planning office or the development services office.

[04:50:03] At that public meeting, I asked staff directly, Mr. McGettigan, directly, whether this applied to existing rezonings or previously approved rezonings, and their answer was no. And when I read the language to them in front of multiple other residents, you wonder why the Gainesville district gets involved? This is why they get involved.

[04:50:22] You guys died on that hill. You said it would not apply to prior rezonings, But yet here it is, and all the dots on the map in the Gainesville District are previously approved rezonings. Those are existing neighborhoods. You throw equity around. It's a wonderful power word.

[04:50:40] Explain to me this. You've got a house in a neighborhood that's next to a development that's already been proffered, that's already been fought for months by the residents because of the impacts on the traffic, the impacts on the school, and because of this ordinance, you're going to grant that developer the authority to come in and add a third more density and double it? Increase that much more the impact on the roads, the utilities, the schools, the public services? Where's the equity in that? I'm going to allow them to answer, then I'm going to respond. I'm not done yet. I'm not close to being done.

[04:51:14] Do you want them to respond to that? Actually, no, I don't, because I don't want to hear it again. They've already died on the Hill. They've told that to the residents. You want to understand why nobody in the Gainesville District believes a word that comes out of planning? This is why.

[04:51:31] The reason I'm sitting here is to represent their interests and to take care of the problems that they've had. And when they ask a direct question and get a direct answer, and then they come to this, we get to this meeting and the answer has changed.

[04:51:49] I've said it before, the comp plan has consistency of Jell-O, and this ordinance will make it worse. We adopt this ordinance with the provisions that it's got in it, and this is a developer's dream. It actually undercuts all the validity of our zoning ordinances, all the impact of the zoning ordinances, and it makes the comp plan meaningless.

[04:52:13] It makes requirements for infrastructure meaningless because there's no way to meet them with this type of additional density. Now, in the developer's defense, will they actually do this? The answer is no. They can't build projects at these densities, at these high densities, without fundamentally changing the nature of the project, because it requires a reduction in the cost of materials, a reduction in the size of the units.

[04:52:41] Nobody's taking this into account. And the discussions I've had with the developer is, yeah, realistically, we're not going to use the provisions of this, because we're not in the business of providing tenement housing. We're in the business of building structures that we can make a profit on.

[04:52:58] This was designed for urban development, and it's curious that none of the urban jurisdictions chose to do it. And last time I checked, we're the policy-making decision. I remember the meeting from last summer.

[04:53:14] It was held not in this room. It was held in development services. No decisions were made. No guidance was given, but you can't hear that because you can't hear the tape in there because the acoustics were so bad. Nobody was speaking into a mic. Yeah, this is a harsh message, but it's one that's long overdue.

[04:53:35] i've been nice for a year and a half tired of being nice tired of being lied to i'm tired of having to read everything and double check it it's time you guys got on board thank you madam chair all right couple things before um i just want to remind everyone ideas because i know more people supervisor franklin wants to speak we have a lot of people in the queue we do have public hearings that are advertised to start at seven o'clock and i'm going to tell you this we're going to start

[04:54:14] at seven o'clock um so what i'm going to do is i am going to um sorry you can wait um also supervisor weir had said to me that he um wants to move back his zta uh do you want to move it to a different date or to seven o'clock yes we are going to have to kick by closed session because we are not we um it's going to go in the seven o'clock after the end of everything because we are now at 6 37 i have gordy vega and franklin who want to speak and then after you can wait Gordy all right so then we'll have Gordy and Franklin and then I will say something and then

[04:54:52] we're gonna have to wrap this up and go to the seven o'clock meeting um Supervisor Gordy did you want to speak yeah just a couple points um number one I'm I just want you to understand my concerns is us losing control as a board I'm not you know I'm I'm advocating with every developer and I've got 6,000 homes proposed for my district right now 6,000 we need 20 more left so um so there's a lot coming and everything from thousand unit developments that are vertical to out in the

[04:55:31] Ben Hill corridor and so we're trying to find the right balance to make it all work but we also have a lot of infrastructure challenges we don't have a plan for schools so I can't accept density bonus that further overcrowd schools that are already overcrowded so that's where we need to maintain control we cannot administratively lose control over this process so that's my view from one-eighth

[04:56:01] going back to the ordinance section 32-290.04 paragraph e it talks about the restrictions in in terms of years no less than 15 years no more than 50 years and then after the initial sale or rental transaction, you know, when someone buys a home, that's their greatest investment. And what I'm a little concerned about is if we, you know, how we allow

[04:56:35] their equity or how their value can grow with the market so that they're not stuck in a home that doesn't provide them value. I mean, I know, but how do we, how do we, for a home purchaser, Now, for rentals, I'd say extend it out to 20 years.

[04:56:57] You know, keep those flat for 20 years because rentals, I mean, when we talk about 30% to 50% AMI, I mean, we're talking about rentals. You know, work, you know, extend that out even further. But for those who are purchasing, their ability to, you know, grow their own personal wealth as they purchase this home other than just, you know, paying off their note.

[04:57:18] What are your thoughts on that? Supervisor Goody, that's why they have the range. we agree with you in reference to planning commission at the same question in reference to we we anticipate because this is a state code range so we have to follow the state code we anticipate those develop those type of projects will come in at the lower end at 15 years for that purpose of that allowing that family to be able to build equity you know so for we could not for instance change that to 10 years for purchases and have something so it's that we're just locked by state code on that do the other codes have different numbers for that are you aware I can't call $25.05.

[04:57:58] I'll have to look at that off the top of my head. I forgot what $2305 had for affordability range. Yeah, I appreciate that. But I don't know if anyone had 10 years. I think it was higher than that. And then, you know, we have seen a couple of applications come in that said that if a home is not sold within a certain period of time, then it would no longer be affordable with them.

[04:58:23] It's sold at market rate. How would this affect that? The way the ordinance is currently written, that unit has to be rented or sold to somebody who's affordable that don't have a provision to allow them only to market for a certain amount of time.

[04:58:40] They have to market until somebody meets the criteria to buy or rent that unit. So if it takes them a year and a half to sell the house, they build it, it sits empty for a year and a half, that's what they've got to do? They would have to apply. The state code allows them financial burden. They would have to prove their case why they can't keep it open.

[04:58:57] okay all right that's all my questions thank you thank you we have um supervisor franklin who is going to go next sure i'll be very quick um i just want to i think there's a lot of dramatics happening with regards to um this ordinance i don't think anyone has negotiated um affordable dwelling units more than i have in the woodbridge district we have more affordable units in the woodbridge district i've always said that we truly want to achieve equity with regards to housing. We have to put them in more places than just the Woodbridge District. And I can tell

[04:59:32] you, too, in terms of what the developers will and won't do, developers have been working with me on ADU set-asides way before now. They've been doing it without an ordinance. Now, have I had to push some of them to get to the number of units that I've wanted? Absolutely. But all of them that I've asked for ADU units on have done it.

[04:59:57] There have also been some that have proactively offered to do it, where I said, well, wait a minute now, I think we've done a lot in Woodbridge, we need to make sure that we have some ADUs and some other projects across the county. So, you know, some of the comments that I'm hearing, it's kind of obvious that there is a lack of experience in actually dealing with developers on doing ADU set-asides by Yilt.

[05:00:24] All right, I'm sorry about that. We're going to move a few things around because we do have a 7 o'clock hearing that is advertised for 7 o'clock, and we do need to hit that. And I also know that we need a little bit of break. Unfortunately, supervisor, we are stepped out for a second.

[05:00:42] We're going to have to, and I'm going to work with each of the supervisors one-on-one and have discussions because we're going to have to continue this. This is, it is contentious. It is contentious because we do have different ideas of what growth looks like, what equity looks like. Is that something that, for some people, they may not feel it needs to be addressed, but it is something that needs to be addressed.

[05:01:02] There are a lot of discussions around this, tough discussions that we're going to have to have. I appreciate Supervisor Franklin weighing into this because, yes, you are correct. You have worked on this issue for a very long time. And so with that, what I'm going to make a few proposals to our agenda.

[05:01:19] What we are going to do is we are going to move. We have closed session. We do not have enough time to do closed session, so I'd like to do that in the evening session. session after public comment time after item 10 is that okay is any problem she's like yeah i'm sorry y'all this is going to be a long night um so we are going to move close session um after item 10 and i am going to put this out here because this is going to be a longer discussion and maybe we're going to have to talk about decorum on this board we're going to have to talk about decorum you know i get people get heated get passionate yes i said it i know i know

[05:01:55] he's gone i will corner him and his cigarettes i am yeah whatever but it's for all of us really we do need to talk about decorum and what that's going to look like on this board because that's something you know quite frankly most of my time is talking to people negotiating having discussions and i really like having um relatively drama-free meetings i enjoy it i want us to be able to work across the aisle, have good conversations with each other. But I also want to respect staff

[05:02:33] because it is hard to come up here. Staff is also getting hit by the public, which is something that, you know, for me, I find not just, it's distasteful. You know, I've been a staffer. I've worked on the Hill. You know, I do strongly feel that the public should also, they should hit us.

[05:02:54] I mean, I cannot stop them from what they want to say, but they should hit us. And we should not be hitting staff because it makes it harder for people to recruit people and for people to want to stay here and honestly i just don't think that's how we're going to get people to do their best work um but so with that we are going to um take and in supervisor we're left so he wants to push back his zoning um his zta um i know people have come here to speak on it um i am going to see if that's something that again he wants to take up you know in the evening session more than likely that's a no and more likely that's another discussion we're going to have to have at a

[05:03:30] different date so i appreciate everyone's come out um i just want to let you know we would probably be pushing that to a different date um at this time yes sorry i i do want to register and i don't know if this needs to come to a vote but i am opposed to pushing the overlay discussion to another date we do not have supervisor we are here we supervisor gordy also left the dais i think that this is something that we can um let's see if we could take a button at seven o'clock because I do want to give everyone, I know not everyone's happy about this, I do want to give everyone a break because we do have to start our hearings at 7 p.m. And so since Supervisor Weir

[05:04:10] is not here and Supervisor Gordie also left, I would, I do not feel comfortable making that decision, at least without Supervisor Weir here. So, you know, I apologize, you know, because I know there are people here for that and who, you know, want to leave for the day. But I will make announcement um at this before we start you know or you know at the start of the next um at the seven o'clock meeting seven hearings all right so with that we are um in recess until seven o'clock

[05:04:41] please give us one more minute i'm trying to round you know round the members of the circus

[05:05:00] all right quickly we all we're waiting for the county attorney i just want to oh yeah all right

[05:05:49] it's 703 um before i get started with the public hearings i just wanted to let people know that we have some stuff from the two o'clock session that we're going to address in the evening session so we are going to start with the public hearings then we are going to move on to public comment time and then we are going to go into closed session and then hopefully we will be able to take up the 7a resolution 7a so that is what the agenda is going to look like for this evening

[05:06:20] um can I go ahead with Michelle for public hearing yeah what we are going to do now is we're going to move into the public hearings um and we're going to start with 9a I would like to ask the applicant

[05:06:44] to come up for their presentation I don't even know I can do that learn something new every day thank you so much my name is Jonelle Cameron with Walsh, Colucci, Lubelai, and Walsh I am here

[05:07:17] tonight on behalf of Peterson Companies with me is Taylor Chess, Clark Tutwiler, and Adam Cook with Peterson and Charles McKeever, the civil engineer with Gordon. And we also have Kayla Ord, our traffic consultant. Sorry, it's not set up. The property we are looking at today is located at 8765 and 8819 Wellington Road. The property is located at the intersection of Wellington Road and Freedom Center Boulevard. The property is 8.51 acres in size. The property is zoned M2

[05:07:56] Light Industrial and was zoned on February 15, 2022 to M2 to allow for a distribution center. The property is also located within the Data Center Opportunity Zone Overlay District and is located within the Technology Overlay District with the designation of EL, Employment Center Research and Development Light Manufacturing, and within the Airport Overlay Zone. The property is comprehensively planned I-3 Light Industrial and is located within the Innovation Small Area plan. The M2 zoning district is an implementing zoning district of the I3 designation and data

[05:08:35] centers are listed as primary uses in both the I3 designation and the small area plan. This slide is a contextual elevation that shows you the building footprint layout. So here is Wellington Road and here is Freedom Center Boulevard. The proposal will allow for 370,715 square feet, which is the 1.0 FAR that's permitted in the data center overlay district.

[05:09:04] We are proposing a maximum height of 65 feet. This is a reduction in height based on the Planning Commission public hearing. For transportation improvements, we've proffered a right turn lane into the site, a left turn lane into the site, a modification of the traffic signal that's located at the intersection of Wellington Road and Freedom Center Boulevard.

[05:09:27] We've proffered bicycle racks, right-of-way dedication along Wellington Road, and a sidewalk along Wellington Road frontage that stops here. That sidewalk does not continue because there's a significant grade change and a barrier, so we've added and allowed for right-of-way dedication for when the county decides to widen Wellington Road in the future.

[05:09:53] The applicant is providing buffers along Wellington Road. There is a modification to reduce the buffer from 50 feet to 30 feet. This modification was approved with the original rezoning, but what the applicant has done is provided a variable width buffer.

[05:10:10] So it's 50 feet here, it goes down to 30 feet in this area in here, and then it increases as you get closer to the emergency access point. The main access point is from Wellington Road and Freedom Center Boulevard with an emergency access point located here.

[05:10:32] The applicant is providing a 50-foot undisturbed buffer adjacent to the church property here. The buffer adjacent to the railroad track was not provided with the original rezoning, and that waiver is memorialized with this proffer amendment. Innovation was originally designed, as you all know, as an office park, and there are many standards within the T-Odd zoning ordinance section that just don't apply to data centers.

[05:10:58] So we have waived some of those standards. That includes requiring 5% of the parking spaces to be available for vehicles used for ride sharing by employees. It also is a waiver of a requirement that your access points for your shared access into the site and loading and deliveries be separated.

[05:11:17] We are also requesting a waiver that the RPA acreage be deducted from the FAR calculation. This was not required, that RPA deduction was not, that RPA requirement to reduce the acreage was not part of the original rezoning.

[05:11:36] So we are also memorializing this as part of the proposal. At the Planning Commission public hearing, the applicant agreed to and has subsequently proffered sustainability measures and provided a proffer pertaining to sound and sound studies.

[05:11:51] The applicant also agreed to provide sound enclosures around each generator for data center buildings. And as part of the original rezoning, RPA impacts were approved and the RPA mitigation and replanting was required.

[05:12:09] As part of this rezoning proffer amendment application, the applicant agreed to do additional measures, which included agreeing to certain standards for the trees that are replanted and also agreed to guarantee a two-year survival rate at a certain plant unit amount. And this slide shows the building elevations that were shown at the Planning Commission public hearing. The applicant has agreed to provide four out of five of the data center design standards. At that Planning Commission public hearing it was requested that the applicant look at the back side of the building here that

[05:12:48] faces unity read and so the applicant has updated their building elevations to add a lot of fenestration to the rear of the building facing unity read this slide is an illustrative of the data center elevation this is the rear that faces unity read and in the event a data center is not on the property the applicant continued to proffer a warehouse distribution building and this was the building that was originally proffered with the original rezoning at the planning commission public hearing as we were meeting with planning commissioners and then again with board members

[05:13:27] the board was really interested in what will this look like what is the actual line of sight that you would be able to see from unity read so the applicant sent out their consultant that looked at various viewpoints from Unity Reed and what the building would look like. This is the first aerial, which is a site from the football field. It's about 1,074 feet away. This is the existing view. This is what it would look like at 60 feet, and 60 feet is what is permitted today by right.

[05:14:06] And then this is what it would look like at 65 feet. And again, we did this from site two. This is 983 feet away from the nearest building corner. This is the existing. This is 60 feet. This is 65 feet. This is the line of sight. Again, from three, this is about 1,300 feet away from the nearest building corner. This is existing. This is 60. This is 65. Site four is from the tennis court. It's about

[05:14:38] 740 feet away from the nearest building corner. This is the existing. This is at 60 feet. This is at 65 feet. And this is five from the parking lot. This is about 1,629 feet away from the nearest building corner. This is the existing. This is 60. And then this is 65. And finally, we have a view from the baseball field. This is 1,076 feet away from the nearest building corner. This is the

[05:15:12] existing view. This is at 60 feet. And this is at 65 feet. And that concludes my presentation with the positive staff report and recommendation of approval from the county staff and the planning commission. We respectfully request the board approve this application and I can answer any questions that you have. I do know we got one last minute proffer change on the proffer that pertains to height. We were requested that we make it clear that pursuant to the section in the t-odd that allows for 75 feet that the applicant is limiting the height to 65 feet and

[05:15:52] so we can make that proper change while the planning staff is giving their presentation all right great um okay yeah right now we're gonna call the staff next and i believe michelle

[05:16:07] gave you the okay not that short um good evening chair jefferson supervisors my name is alex Vanagas from the planning office, and I'm the case planner for this proffer amendment,

[05:16:47] rezoning 2024-0008, 8765, and 8819 Wellington Road proffer amendment. So the request is to amend the proffers associated with rezoning 2020-0018 so that it aligns with the use of proposed data centers.

[05:17:10] They're also requesting a height increase as well as an FAR increase and other associated waivers and modifications. As Janelle had explained earlier, this is right near the intersection of Freedom Center and Wellington Road.

[05:17:28] And staff is recommending approval for this application. the property is currently zoned m2 and in the long-range land use comprehensive plan it is identified as industrial 3 tech flex classification this is the site layout with the proposed building these show the buffer areas that janelle went over and this is emergency access through this

[05:18:04] portion of the property with the main access occurring on the western side of the property we did talk she did mention that there's a reforestation area around the rpa that's impacted and the transportation improvements that they're making she went over that primarily a right in and then also turn lane as well as left turn lane and modification to the traffic signals.

[05:18:39] These are the illustratives showing the different views. The important view is the one associated with the Unity Reed High School. They did put a lot of fenestration. They also put windows in there to make it look more like an office building.

[05:18:57] And these are some additional illustratives. So the important thing that I wanted to go over is there were several updates at the request of the Planning Commission as well as several supervisors provided input to the application.

[05:19:16] So the applicant has agreed to reduce the building height. Originally they were asking for 75 feet. They agreed to come down to 65, which is 5 feet above the 60 foot that they would be allowed to do. And that's in proffer number four. The applicant has also proffered to address the noise from the data centers.

[05:19:37] Originally, that wasn't in the Planning Commission proffers, so they made that modification. That's under proffer 11A and B. The applicant has added a proffer to provide sound enclosures around generators for data center buildings.

[05:19:53] That's an important one because we always hear from the public that they're concerned with the noise that emanates from the generators. And that can be found under Proffer 13. The applicant has added a sustainability proffer. Originally, they had provided five measures. We asked them to increase that up to eight measures.

[05:20:13] And they also proffered that they would coordinate those activities regarding the sustainability measures with the sustainability office, in particular Julia Mano. The applicant has also added the proffer to address emergency spill containment.

[05:20:30] That's proffer number 17. They updated the elevations to have more earth tones and enhance the back of the building facade that is facing Unity Reed. That's proffer number eight under architectural renderings. And then the last thing, we had a request from development services for them to label the fence that was on the plan of the GDP.

[05:20:58] So staff is recommending approval. We feel like the property meets the needs of the data center opportunity overlays within the data center opportunity overlay. As they mentioned, it's also in the innovation park small area plan.

[05:21:15] They are incorporating suitable design strategies. The requested height modification was reduced down to 65 feet. aligns with the transect that's in the comprehensive plan i3 and it also is permitted in the the t-odd designation the proposed proffer amendment is consistent with the compatible use existing zoning and existing industrial uses that are found throughout that the innovation park small area plan and with that we'll gladly take any questions all right I have a couple questions in the

[05:21:54] Thank you, Supervisor Bode, Vega, Gordy, Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Alex, for the presentation. Thank you, Janelle. First is the sustainability measures. Can you talk about which ones are among the many of those, especially renewable energy?

[05:22:10] Yeah, there's, if you can give me one second, please. So those can be found under proffer number 14. There they talk about various things such as using recyclable aggregate materials for the roadways also using sustainable manufactured concrete and construction of the data center aeration of the ponds of for using solar energy to aerate the ponds They will use available high recycled content construction materials

[05:22:49] led site and interior lighting heat reflective roof materials air or closed loop cooling and then use indoor environmental quality measures not limited to adequate ventilation and exhaust also they will provide could provide electrical vehicle charging stations And then install water-efficient landscaping.

[05:23:20] Fuel storage should have limited impacts on the environment. The spill contingency plan. And then provide shower facilities within the building in conjunction with the bike racks to encourage the use of bicycle transportation. Appreciate that.

[05:23:36] And I think Ms. Cameron would have to go after you. Specifically, you asked about renewable energy. So the list that Alex just read was a list of options. So we would have to choose eight of those options. in consultation with the sustainability officer.

[05:23:54] But in particular, a requirement is as a condition of bond release, the applicant commits to run its data center on 25% renewable energy. The applicant will achieve this by purchasing national unbundled renewable energy certificates to cover the electricity load at the data center.

[05:24:12] All RECs procured are Green E certified wind or solar. At the time of bond release, the applicant shall submit copies of invoices showing the purchase of RECs. So that was an actual requirement and not part of that list. Okay, appreciate that. Thank you, Ms. Cameron, for that, because that's what I wanted to get at, that sustainability measure, because I know that's newer.

[05:24:30] We haven't had that one before, but wanted to highlight that. Okay, thank you. And I had one more question, Madam Chair, unrelated to that. Unity Reed was mentioned a lot. How much interactivity have you all had with Unity Reed? Have you been consulting with them? And especially as it pertains to once we go under construction, will they be consulted when construction is going on, what have you, knowing, again, that there's a school there?

[05:24:52] John Brilliant, with SAC, who will be the end user at this site, can answer that question for you. Thank you. Yeah, so we've met with the school, went over there, had a couple meetings with them, provided some meals, lunch and breakfast, and specifically met with the CTE director there to speak to them about ways in which we could help support their program there through, you know, it's primarily trades and potentially supporting them with any, you know, potential materials that they would need and support them in that fashion.

[05:25:24] So that coordination will be ongoing throughout construction, as you mentioned, to ensure that we're not disturbing their operations. Great. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. Hi, Alex. Hi. Good evening.

[05:25:40] Could we put the aerial photo back up again, please? Absolutely. I see one in the staff report executive summary, which I think, well, that works too. So how many houses are around this property, across the street and next to it? I can't make out what these buildings are.

[05:25:55] it appears one two three four five five houses correct okay and then um what is the the closest or rather what is the distance to the closest home janelle do you know that because i think um so i wanted to just provide some feedback on that so the only how there are homes on this side but they are running which side you know sorry um on the north side of wellington road there are homes but they are operating businesses out of those homes um to the south there is one home

[05:26:33] that's directly across the street um that is a rental she is aware of the applications um along this corridor and then okay and then that's fine and then these houses here are all vacant these i don't hopefully you can see the mouse these three have a rezoning application in um and are in the process of being demolished and then these parcels here um sort of along wellington road on the south side those are all vacant there is an application in for those as well and those are

[05:27:12] being demolished okay and then um it cuts off right at the edge of the picture what is that i don't know so this isn't no no sorry i don't know if it's a junkyard um it's a one okay what is happening there um does not look like residential but i don't know what it is okay and then i believe there's a church somewhere around yes so there is a church right here okay and what is the distance uh to the church to the property line that we're discussing today so the church abuts the property line i don't have the exact distance but we are providing a 50 foot undisturbed buffer um and peterson has been talking to the church and the next um the next

[05:27:49] application we have is directly on the other side of the church okay and then the the building that's going to be closest to the school what's the distance and feet so you have that i do but it depends on where it is um give me one second i believe it might be in our actual presentation can we switch there okay no it's okay if i don't have it supervisor vega i'll get it but i think it

[05:28:25] was at the back so from the we don't have it to the building and i can get it to the building but from the school to the property line it's about 856 feet away i care more about the building that's yes yes yes we'll get that for you thanks and um just want to say uh thank you i think this is the first presentation where we have the buildings actually pop up like that and it gives you like a really good idea of what it's going to look like um so i do appreciate that on your end but that's all i have for now madam chair thank you all right supervisor gordy um thank you for

[05:29:01] the presentation um can you talk uh about the power requirements for this site and how you're going to power it? Absolutely. So there is, sorry to make you all dizzy. So the Rixlew substation is a substation by Novak that is located here. That Rixlew substation has been approved by the Planning Commission. It does have site plan approval and power will come from the Rixlew substation. And will that be overhead or underground? Underground. Underground. Okay.

[05:29:37] thank you you're welcome um in terms of um so this this site uh i mean we approved it when i was on the planning commission for distribution correct um and so what is the net effect of transportation on wellington road it is a reduction in trips and i can get you that exact number okay thank you you're welcome um i think that's the only questions i have at this time thank you madam Thank you, Madam Chair.

[05:30:07] Janelle, thank you for reducing it down to 65 in the proffer. I appreciate that. What's your load demand, and do you have a load letter filed? We do have a load letter filed. I can get the load demand for you. So the load demand is 54 megawatts, and we have executed electrical services agreement with NOVAC.

[05:30:29] Do we know how much demand is on the Ricks-Sleuth substation currently? Currently on the Ricks-Sleuth substation, there's a little bit of demand coming off for one of our other sites that's located to the south. Do we have a sense of what the remaining capacity will be?

[05:30:48] Yeah, so between a variety of our projects that we have, we're using 216 of the 300, and the remaining 84 is dedicated to another user from our understanding. So it'll be maxed out under the 300 megawatt rule once all of these projects are done?

[05:31:05] Once they're all built, that's right. Okay. Similarly, you're going to do 25% energy renewal credits or certificates. How are you going to – it's a rhetorical question. I'm just going to put it out there because I know somebody is going to demand I ask it. How are you going to ensure that solar and wind-generated electrons go into the building?

[05:31:24] The electrons will not go into the building. Yeah, all right. And those same electrons would use, in theory, if they could somehow be directed to the building, will still use the same infrastructure? Correct. Okay. That's all I've got.

[05:31:44] Supervisor Bailey. Sorry, I had an answer to Supervisor Vega's question, if that's okay. Thank you. You're welcome. And Supervisor Gordy. So the building to building is about 1,080 feet away, and the reduction in trips is 145 daily trip reduction. You're welcome. That's good.

[05:32:09] I too appreciate your presentation when you did the hike. That really gives us a good idea. But the question I have, the illustrative that you showed of the building, the color of the building, is that going to be the color or is that just a... So the colors are always different on a screen when you copy and paste, but the idea was that it would be more of an earth-tone color.

[05:32:32] Okay, darker. Correct, like a brownish earth-tone color that wouldn't stick out. Not gray cement-y. Correct. Okay, that's what I was asking. Thank you. You're welcome. All right, if we don't have any more questions right now, what I would like to do, if there is no objection from my members, you know, my colleagues, is go into the second presentation since they're closely related, and then do the public, you know, the public hearing, the public comment.

[05:33:00] I don't know if anyone has. Can we see people looking over? All right. All right. That's what I would like to do so that that would save us a little bit of time from the back and forth. So, Ms. Cameron, if you can come back. Lower it again. I'm on my tippy toes over here. That's the other one.

[05:33:18] Good evening again. For the record, my name is Jonelle Cameron on behalf of Walsh Colucci, LeBlanc, Walsh. I'm here tonight on behalf of Peterson Companies. I have with me Taylor Chess, Clark Tutwiler, and Adam Cook with Peterson, and Charles McKeever, the civil engineer with Gordon.

[05:33:37] So we are here today to talk to you about Stoneview, which is five properties located on Wellington Road. And just for reference, we just talked to you about this property here. It's the church, and we are talking to you about these five properties here.

[05:33:54] It's about 12.37 acres in size. the property is currently zone a1 agricultural it's located within the data center opportunity zone overlay district it's located within the technology overlay district designated as el which is employment center research and development light manufacturing it's also within the airport overlay district the property zone i3 light industrial and is located within the innovation small area plan the m2 zoning district is an implementing zoning district of the i3 designation

[05:34:29] and the data centers are listed as primary uses in both I-3 and the small area plan. There is currently a special use permit on a portion of the property that was approved for a landscaping business. That special use permit will be superseded by this rezoning, but that use is permitted in the M-2 zoning district.

[05:34:52] There is an existing house on the property, and we have proffered that that house can remain until redevelopment. And as you can see the site, they're both very triangular, and so as part of this proposal, in addition to the rezoning, we would be creating two lots that make the properties more developable.

[05:35:13] So they are broken up into two land bays, land bay A and land bay B. Land bay A is the land bay with the data center, and land bay B would be the land bay with the landscaping business and the home.

[05:35:28] The business wanted more outdoor storage, so we proffered outdoor storage and showed that on our general development plan, but we also proffered that outdoor storage couldn't be less than 200 feet away from Wellington Road.

[05:35:49] The data center proposal would allow for 371,566 square feet of data center uses, which is a 1.0 FAR. The height that is within the staff report is a height of 75 feet.

[05:36:09] After meeting with board members over the last couple of days, we were requested to reduce the height from 75 feet to 65 feet. We have a proffer that has that change. We will also need to make the same change that we just made for the other project to make it clear that although the TIOT allows for 75 feet, the applicant is limited to 65 feet in height on the site.

[05:36:37] And similar to the project you all just heard, we're providing a 30-foot buffer adjacent to Wellington Road. That is a modification. We are also asking for a modification of the buffer adjacent to the residential here. That is known by the property owner, and they are okay with that buffer.

[05:36:58] The applicant is also seeking the similar waivers of the TIAWD standards. So it's 5% of the parking spaces be available for vehicles using ride sharing by employees. We've waived that requirement, and then we also waive the requirement that the travel ways for your access, your main access, and the loading space be separated.

[05:37:20] From a transportation perspective, main access will be from Wellington Road with an emergency access further down. The applicant has proffered a left turn lane into the site, a right turn lane into the site, and right-of-way dedication that was not provided by the landscaping business as part of their special use permit.

[05:37:42] This is the slide showing the building elevations for the data centers. They have also proffered and proposed four out of five of the data center design standards. This is an illustrative of the elevation. This is another illustrative of the elevation.

[05:38:01] In the event a data center is not constructed, the applicant has proffered building elevations for a warehouse building, which is what you see on your screen. and that concludes my presentation and with a positive staff report and recommendation of approval from the county and planning staff we request you approve this application all right staff you're ready for your right does anyone have any questions i'm sorry yes i saw supervisor weir

[05:38:27] and i was gonna wait till alex was done oh okay all right let's go good evening again my name is alex venegas from the planning office and i'm the case planner for the stoneview rezoning

[05:38:55] I'll try to be really succinct because I know that we covered all this, but again, it's rezoning for approximately 12.37 acres from A1 to M2. It abuts the Norfolk Southern Railroad as well as the Vulcan Quarry.

[05:39:14] This one's less visible to the school. Staff is recommending approval. It is I3, which is the proposed use is consistent with the comprehensive plan. The rezoning from A1 to M2 will also address that.

[05:39:34] It is also part of the Innovation Park Small Area Plan, and it's consistent with the intended uses in the I3. As previously mentioned, there's two land bays, land bay A, which is where the proposed data center or warehouse would go.

[05:39:53] And then Land Bay B is currently a landscaping business with a residential unit. And the applicant, they already have an approved SUP for the landscaping business. They're proffering to allow the residential unit to stay until such time as the property is redeveloped.

[05:40:15] These are some of the tabulations between the M2 TI and what was proposed again this is the land bay the traffic improvements that was mentioned by the applicant a new right turn lane and the left turn lane will be provided for the application this is the concept of the warehouse that could go there Janelle in her presentation showed the what the data center would look like and staff is recommending approval for this project

[05:40:47] as well. Yes, hold on. I'm sorry. It's going to do something. All right. That's it. So then for questions, we have Weir, Bodie, Vega. Ms. Cameron, start with similar questions.

[05:41:14] Load demand source. So I need the load demand question, but this site, the applicant is currently in discussions with Novak to put a substation on the property here. That distribution would also be underground in this location here um and you can answer the load question the same same load profiles the other building yeah i've only got one other question and it's because i'm terribly

[05:41:49] terribly confused the previous project is put on 8.51 acres and this is on 12.37 acres it is but it's broken into two so the acreage sorry i'll get the gdp so the actual land bay is roughly 6.5 acres? Eight. I want to get the right number. I like giving you the right number and not a round number so give me one second. In this case a round number is fine. This particular instance. That's

[05:42:25] fine. So land bay A is 8.53 acres pre-dedication to the county for the road. Herein lies my confusion. It has been drilled into me for quite some time now that in order to effectuate a data center application within the data center opportunity zone you need 100 acres of property how is it that your applicant is capable of doing not one but two applications on less than one-tenth

[05:43:04] of the land prescribed is that a rhetorical question yes it is okay thank you thank you supervisor bode thank you uh similar question as as my last one uh did they also uh commit to the 25% RECs yes they did and I can give you that specific proper supervisor Bodie proper 14 and then the similar sustainability measures as the previous one are also being applied to this one

[05:43:42] as well correct okay thank you supervisor Vega thank you madam chair just real quick for this one in the previous presentation is the height inclusive or exclusive of equipment exclusive of rooftop equipment okay thank you you're welcome all right supervisor Gordy then Bailey just so just want to make sure i understand the transportation piece so in the last one you included turn lanes on this one you're just dedicating right away on this one we are also doing turn lanes so there's a it's not as clear on this slide but there's a left turn lane into

[05:44:17] the site there's a right turn lane into the site as well and then there's also right-of-way dedication okay you're welcome supervisor bailey back to the rhetorical question just kidding color of the building so that color of the building i think is this actual color um that was but you're saying yes but it's shown more as a gray color but not that can i have my presentation i'm sorry to make you go back and forth janelle you know why i'm asking you the

[05:44:55] question thank you didn't mean to make you go all the way back i might need one thank you so we're showing more of a gray color here but they are willing to do more of a tan color which is what see on the screen for the rendering you know why I'm asking a question yes thank

[05:45:31] you all right I guess that's it from the day so thank you so very much thank you for the presentations what I'm going to do is I'm going to open the public hearings for item 9a and 9b together to save time so the public hearing for 9a and 9b are now open I have one person who is signed up to speak in person that That is Ms. Teresa Menz, if you'd like to go to the microphone.

[05:45:59] Teresa Menz, Potomac District. I'm a little disappointed not to see anyone here from the Brentsville area. I'm hoping and assuming that they may be in agreement with this.

[05:46:18] I don't know because they've all been put through the ringer when it comes to data centers. But I will, I will state, I have no confidence in this board, none at all. And I'm not talking about the staff.

[05:46:35] I'm talking about the board members. because you're not here to represent the citizens any longer. You're here to represent other entities. And I have no confidence in the data center powers either because I've seen what's been going on in this county with data centers, and you are all pro-data centers.

[05:46:58] The only one who has asked any pertinent questions is Supervisor Ware. The rest of you, once again, no confidence. You've sold us out. you don't represent prince william county so i leave it at that thank you ma'am we will move on

[05:47:20] uh miss madden do we have anyone for remote okay so if there's anyone else who wants to speak in person please make your way to the microphone all right great we'll move over to the remote

[05:47:48] miss van shall we begin our speaker is ms sheen if you're speaking we cannot hear you currently Karen Sheehan, Gainesville District.

[05:48:15] Please proceed. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to speak on these two proffer amendments, but I didn't have an opportunity to insert a comment before being picked as the first speaker.

[05:48:36] So I will just say that this county has enough data centers. I'm not convinced that we're going to have anywhere near the revenue that the county hopes to get from data centers.

[05:48:58] It is very sad that we are considering putting data centers behind Unity Reed High School, where my daughter went to high school, and eliminating more A1 land.

[05:49:27] I'm pretty sure that this board is going to approve these, but I just want to register my dismay and lack of confidence in the county, whether it be the planning staff or the Board of Supervisors, on making rational decisions for where this county is going.

[05:49:58] And that's all I have to say. Thank you, Ms. Sheehan. Next speaker, please. Your next speaker is Mike Kachmerick. Mike Kaczmarek, Heritage Hunt, Gainesville.

[05:50:22] I'm against item 9A until the noise proffer has real enforcement provisions. It's great that they are proffering the noise issue, but they do not state what will happen if they fail. The board should ensure that they have real enforcement provisions before accepting this project.

[05:50:38] When will you pass a real industrial noise ordinance for all the data centers? Also, before any new data center should be considered and approved, all missing data should be provided for a comprehensive list of approved data center projects needed to be released to the public.

[05:50:55] The data centers are hiding behind NDAs. The board needs to go back to the data centers and get relief from the NDAs. They should be able to provide how much square foot is each project, total power requirement for the project. You also need to have a proposed 20-year development schedule for the project.

[05:51:15] How long will it take for each new data center to come online? I know everyone has a cool question, 20-year projections, but it's necessary for long-range planning and to understand this issue. The voters of Prince William County have the right to know what will happen in their backyards in the next 20 years.

[05:51:32] The data center industry refuses to provide this information. How can we ever consider them good neighbors? If they use deception and deceit, they will never be good neighbors. If that's the only way that they can operate, it may be better for them to go someplace else.

[05:51:48] We want good neighbors in Prince William County. What is delaying the release of this information? You should not continue to approve projects until you release a comprehensive list of what has already been approved. You have no idea what is the total power demand for all these projects.

[05:52:05] I hope the state or federal government takes this authority away from you before you bring down the entire electric grid. You are not a very responsible board because you do not want to look at the long-term demands and implications. Please vote no on this project, or at least get more information before you approve this project, especially a real industrial noise ordinance.

[05:52:28] Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Kashmiric. Next speaker, please. Your next speaker is Rachel Ellis. Good evening. Rachel Ellis, Gainesville District. I am asking you to vote no on the proper amendment for Wellington Road. They can already build bi-rate data centers, but here they are asking for more.

[05:52:56] When will this board ever say no? Will you say no when a project is going to directly impact both a Title I high school and a Title I elementary school? Does this board even care anymore? Both Unity Reed High School and Ellis Elementary are Title I schools.

[05:53:14] A Title I school receives educational assistance to students living in areas of high poverty. The following facts were taken from usnews.com. At Unity Reed High School, the total minority enrollment is 92%, with 71% being Hispanic or Latino, and 62% of the students are economically disadvantaged.

[05:53:36] At Ellis Elementary, the school's minority student enrollment is 87%. 60% of that is Hispanic or Latino. The school enrolls 87% of economically disadvantaged students. When the county staff reports that there has not been opposition, do you think the community actually knows and understands what is coming to their child's school?

[05:53:59] Were parents of Unity Reed and Ellis Elementary actually contacted? You were talking about a predominantly Hispanic or Latino student population. For the high school PTSO, Parent Teacher Student Organization, and Planning Council, participation has remained at less than 10 parents for the last four years.

[05:54:18] And even if the parents or neighbors do not care, you as a board should care. I as a parent care. These two schools are already facing challenges that will impede a student's education, and now we want to surround the schools with data centers. Where is the noise study?

[05:54:34] And another point of fact, Unity Reed has a standard graduation rate of 78% in 2022 and 2023, which is below the federal benchmark, according to the county's own improvement plan. So the past year, residents in the Gainesville District have watched the destruction of wooded areas, the constant construction, and the concrete monstrosities that are being built.

[05:55:00] We know what is coming with every application this board continues to approve with every extra foot it allows with the proper amendments. Tonight, I'm giving a voice to those who are disadvantaged, those whose parents do not understand what this means. Not everyone has access to information what that little white sign on the side of the road actually means for their community.

[05:55:18] But I know what this means, and all eight of you know what this means. You are setting a very dangerous precedent by allowing this level of industrialization between two schools. This is not an NIMBY issue. For me, I will continue to speak out. I will continue to hold this board accountable for your words and your votes.

[05:55:35] Words spoken during campaigns, not near schools. I am asking this board to set precedent tonight, but in a different way by voting no. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Ellis. Next speaker, please. There are no more remote speakers for this public hearing.

[05:55:51] All right. Thank you so much, Ms. Fann, as always. And back to you, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you so much. I received a notification. We might have someone else who wants to speak in person. All right. I'm going to say no. Thank you so very much. I am now going to close the public hearing on items 9A and 9B.

[05:56:08] We will move towards, I'm looking at you, Supervisor Vega, you got a question? I do, Madam Chair, but it doesn't allow me to ask it the way we normally do. I'll just, since you told me, I'll just go with it.

[05:56:24] All right, thank you. And is this towards staff or towards the applicant? One is for staff. So, Jonel, if you don't mind. I'm sorry for the applicant. You're not Jonel, Alex.

[05:56:39] I'm sorry. Yes. Staff and the county attorney want to look at the handwritten proffer changes as well. Okay, thank you. Sorry, I'm ready.

[05:56:57] Were there any efforts to reach out to the school division to ask about any possible concerns? So there were, I think John, brilliant, he's coming up, but there were several meetings with staff. I was not involved. Yeah, we met with staff and teachers, and I had mentioned earlier when Supervisor Bodhi asked, So we met with the career technical education director at Unity Reed specifically to talk to them about how we could support the program.

[05:57:24] But we met with both the high school and the elementary school to discuss what we were doing, walked them through much of the presentation and explained what our plan was for the project. Any concerns raised by them at all? We didn't get any concerns. No? Okay, thank you for that. And this one's for staff.

[05:57:40] Thanks, Jonel. So we've clearly had previous applications, you know, that are somewhat close to schools. but do we have any other data center in the county this close to a school that you're aware of?

[05:57:57] Not that I'm aware of. I would have to look back and check, but I'm not aware of anyone that's currently built that's that close. Is that something you could get before we vote, or it's going to take a little bit of time? And if it is, it's fine. It would probably take some time to research all the applications that we've approved.

[05:58:16] Okay, thank you. And then the last, I guess, question that I have for the sake of consistency, was any proffers made in regards to construction parking or dirt because i know that that's been an issue that has been raised and so i'm just curious if the applicant made any proffers towards that there are no proffers that address that situation okay thank you all right thank you so much um supervisor gordy i just wanted to see if you wanted to make a motion i would prefer the review i i have said i have spoken with the developers on this site um and they do have parking across the road because there are other data centers currently by this developer taking

[05:58:55] place on the other side of wellington road where they are already taking care of this within their within within that area so the parking has already been done there is a plan absolutely again i start with three questions with every data center developer where's your power coming from what are you doing about parking and what are you doing with the dirt because this is about logistics and And, you know, we heard a lot of people today talk about data centers don't have an impact.

[05:59:24] They do have an impact. Just drive the roads in Brentsville, I'll tell you, it'll have an impact. A very expensive impact. So the logistics are important. But I thank you for asking the question. And, yes, I've already addressed that with STAC.

[05:59:46] All right. I'm waiting to review. All right. But I do want to make a point of clarification. So on the Wellington Road PRA, this is not a vote on whether or not there's a data center going here.

[06:00:04] There's a data center going here. They're coming in for a proffer amendment for height. We're going to see this over and over again. It's coming. These are by-right developments.

[06:00:20] The data centers are going in, but each and every one of these cases are coming in for some sort of a waiver or modification. If they do that, then I want to get as much out of them for the county, for the community, as I possibly can get. And I'll tell you, I personally want to thank the work of the Planning Commission.

[06:00:40] I'm very proud of our current Planning Commission. They do fantastic work to work on these projects. They're digging deep into these cases. They're looking into the codes. They're doing great work to make sure that we get these cases right.

[06:00:56] And I think the appointees from this board to that planning commission are the right group of people at this time. And so the planning commission work with the planning staff helped to make these better projects, even though they could come in by right, build to 60 feet, and we can get nothing out of it.

[06:01:20] But we're getting better projects. So, and we're just giving five feet of height in order to get better fenestration, better, more sustainability measures, transportation measures, just all around better projects.

[06:01:36] So, while I hear and I sympathize with a lot of the concerns of folks in the community, again, I get back to the reality. This is a by-right development. There's a data center going here. It's not a matter of whether it's going in. It's a matter about what it looks like, and I will say that, you know, within this area, this is more of a campus area, and the Rixleau substation, the projects that are coming will complete that Rixleau substation, which my hope will, once that's done, we can bring an end to other data centers in this area once we max that thing out,

[06:02:15] because as long as there's any capacity on that substation, they're going to keep coming. And so this would be the opportunity to further maximize that substation for this current campus.

[06:02:32] So based upon Ms. Robles' review, motion to approve items 9A and 9B, including proffers dated June 11, 2024.

[06:02:56] Second. We're going to take the vote on these individually. So for 9A, is there any discussion? Let's see. I have a couple. Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[06:03:14] I would offer that these applications serve as a perfect example of the unforeseen impacts of explosive growth of the data center industry on the overlay district. We've heard repeatedly that development like this was not possible on the remaining parcels within the overlay, but obviously such development is possible.

[06:03:39] In the grand scheme of things, five feet isn't too much to ask. I can find it within the bounds of reason, much unlike some of the people who are seeking 45 additional feet or more if that were the case tonight I wouldn't be even willing to consider it I would love to vote against the applications but as noted by Supervisor Gordy they are essentially by right but I think what everybody needs to bear in mind is that yes it's only two

[06:04:12] more buildings that's two more buildings worth of electrical load that the county doesn't have the capacity for not just the county but Dominion Power and by extension Novec I don't know if anybody was aware of what happened at the pre-meeting yesterday, but the wreck and rebuild plan for the Morrisville to wishing star may be on hold and may be delayed indefinitely because it may not be possible. Because in order to upgrade the lines, they would have to take the

[06:04:48] lines down. And their concern is that in doing such, they would create a blackout. That's how dire the situation is. Further concerned in that in meeting with Dominion, I've got another meeting with them tomorrow with respect to their IRP. They are bound to determine how they're going to model their program before they generate their load forecast. As a matter of fact, they're going to do their load forecast last. We continue to operate under this overstated revenues projection

[06:05:27] to the county, and now we're in a circumstance where every time we approve another one, we're diminishing the land value from an assessment standpoint of other data centers. I would point to the assessor's office notice that this year they're getting a 10% reduction for unbuilt data center land because of the surplus of data center zoned properties we have. If we keep approving them at this rate, the question is, how much is that discount next year? That being said,

[06:05:59] I will grudgingly support it. All right. Thank you. Did you? Supervisor Vega? Yeah. Just real quick. I know Supervisor Ware said that these are essentially by right. I do think it's important to remember that the applicant is asking for six waivers for this, so that's not really by a right otherwise we wouldn't be here um i'm a little conflicted um but you know this is this is this is a tough one for me thank you supervisor anyone else all right if not let's go ahead and

[06:06:37] take a vote motion passes seven to one supervisor vega voting nay all right thank you i'm pleased no plus thank you we're gonna move now move on to line b um supervisor gordy oh yeah you did all Right. We're supposed to do one at a time, bro.

[06:07:07] Okay. Any discussion? Supervisor Weir. My previous comments applied to this. I wasn't in queue. No, so hold on. So you made the motion. I just want to be clear.

[06:07:23] I didn't be who seconded it. Angry. All right. You're still up. That's why you're still in there. Did you have anything else you wanted to say on this, Supervisor Weir? My same comments apply to this one as well. All right. So that's easy. Anyone else? That's what I thought, but I didn't get any pushback.

[06:07:47] Just for simplicity, I move to approve item 9B with the proffers dated June 11th, 2024. And Supervisor Weir was a ditto on his comments earlier. Does anyone have anything else? No one else?

[06:08:05] No one? No one? Going once? All right. Let's vote. Motion passes. Seven to one. Supervisor Vega voting nay. All right. I'm sorry. I'm having a little bit of difficulty with my screen.

[06:08:20] We are going to move on to public comment time. When I call you up for public comment, please state your name, your magisterial district, or where you generally reside. You know, public comments are limited to three minutes each.

[06:08:37] So, I'm sorry, I'm still having computer issues.

[06:08:55] All right, we have two people who are signed up for public comments. We have Ted Pulaski and Teresa Benz. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

[06:09:30] My name is Ted Pulaski. I've been a Prince William County resident for 18 years, the last five of which have been in the Brentsville District on Bristow Road, so in the rural Crescent, but surrounded by other development.

[06:09:48] Also, for most of the last five years, employed in the data center industry, but mostly I'm here speaking as a resident of the rural Crescent. Most of the arguments for data center development were proffered earlier.

[06:10:07] One issue that hadn't been addressed that I had seen both in the media and from a speaker earlier today really concerned data centers being approved outside the overlay district, and there is a lot of complaints about that. I do not believe that eliminating the overlay district will help that data center growth at all.

[06:10:30] In fact, I believe it would incentivize the developers to work closer to existing transmission lines elsewhere in the county, no matter what their other use is, as opposed to building in areas that boards of supervisors have already deemed appropriate for industry and data centers.

[06:10:48] As you know, there's several transmission lines crossing county in many rural areas. If there is no data center overlay to somewhat constrain, incentivize them there, they will respond to the incentive of that transmission line. I believe the better way to approach that would be to propose some sort of stringent rules, regulations, guidelines for special use permits.

[06:11:15] Make that the deciding factor. Make every special use permit much harder to get so that things stay within the district where they're already approved. My other comments are about the affordable dwelling units, so I'd just like to remind, since there was comments on that being 26,000 units, that's just the number of affordable units that would be needed.

[06:11:36] The proposed draft gave incentives for anywhere only up to 35% of the units being affordable, down to 5%. Even at 35%, that would mean 74,000 additional units. if they responded to the incentive at only 5%, that would mean 520,000 additional housing units in the county. As mentioned earlier, growth is good, better than loss, but it's got to be constrained slow growth to be sustainable. Rapid growth indefinitely is not sustainable indefinitely,

[06:12:11] and getting that number of total housing units cannot be done without changing the character of the county. Thank you. Thank you so much. Next speaker, please. Three Cements, Potomac District.

[06:12:28] I want to thank law enforcement and first responders for all they do. Once again, I have no confidence in this board, absolutely none. You do not work for the citizens of Prince William County. You work for the builders, for the data center gurus. You don't work for the citizens that live here. And I hope you endure the pain that you're dishing out. And the wrong question was

[06:13:03] asked about that school. Were the parents notified about the data centers? I don't care about the school powers to be because the schools have let us down. The leaders of the school systems have let us down. And a lady just left. She didn't realize that she could sign up and everything.

[06:13:26] she said well I didn't sign up because you were not clear you were not clear okay she talked about a cemetery being destroyed and a few other things she was talking to me as she was leaving okay you guys do not represent us and stop lying and God help us Bailey if you make it up to Congress because we'll have more evil people up in the Democrat Congress God help us and you know what anyone that can get out of Prince William County I advise it because they're saying oh you might as

[06:14:06] well just get out of the state of Virginia laugh all you want Bodie oh yeah oh yeah because we have no rights what is it called is a by right whatever it is as citizens we have no rights only these people have rights and all those gentlemen that left and they were proud of themselves because they won well good when you get shafted like the people in down in dumfries who get flooding all

[06:14:44] the time because their supervisor is nowhere to be found then suck it up and once again i know you get tired of hearing it but thank you supervisor where the rest of you no confident oh i want to know what kickbacks you guys are getting i want to know and don't tell me i can't ask this question i want to know what donations you're getting for your elections we have a right to know what you're getting it should be posted in the newspaper all the time when these guys give you donations

[06:15:20] so once again thank you for betraying prince william county all right that is the end of public comment time what we're going to do now and i mentioned this oh i'm sorry speaker yeah all right on to remote public comment time as always you have three minutes to speak please identify yourself and where you live. Ms. Van, shall we begin? Your first remote speaker is Karen Sheehan. Karen Sheehan, Gainesville District. Can you hear me? We can, Ms. Sheehan.

[06:15:57] Please proceed. I am wanting to support the Zoning Text Amendment 7A on this agenda. We need to stop by right data center approvals across the county. As of March 1st of this year, and these numbers have been updated, but I'm going to refer to what the analysis that I had as of March. This county

[06:16:34] had 86.9 million square feet potential for data centers. That's 26,533 megawatts or 26.5 gigawatts of power. 26.5 gigawatts is the amount of power required for 6,633,250 homes. That's the potential

[06:17:14] that this county has for data centers, power demand. In Prince William County, there are only 482,000 residents per the 2020 census in all of the county. Five New York cities would require

[06:17:37] 27.5 gigawatts of power. In 2022, New York City used 5.5 gigawatts of power, not the 27.5 that Prince William County will require with all of the data centers that are being constructed and have been approved. The North Anna and South Anna nuclear power plants generate one gigawatt

[06:18:15] of power. So in order to provide the estimated 26 gigawatts of power required for the Prince William County projected data center build, Prince William County would need the equivalent of 26 nuclear power plants. Right now, well, I take that back. As of February 2024, Prince William County

[06:18:54] had 8.5 million square feet of data centers, which is 2,604 megawatts or 2.6 gigawatts. I believe, Ms. Sheehan, your time is up. Ms. Vann, please continue.

[06:19:18] Your next speaker is Mike Ketchmerick. Mike Ketchmerick, Heritage Hunt, Gainesville. I'm very disappointed in what happened last week. The board overrode the Planning Commission recommendation.

[06:19:35] The Planning Commission rejected the project unanimously. You should have returned the project back to the Planning Commission instead of ignoring your input. It appears that the Planning Commission is just like public comment time. It's just another block that needs to be checked.

[06:19:52] They have no impact on your decision. It appears that all decisions are made in closed meetings with developers, and the public input is totally ignored. Please look at the cumulative impact instead of looking at these projects one at a time.

[06:20:08] Long-range planning is needed. Publish a list of all approved data centers to the public. Stop hiding behind NDAs. Develop a real industrial noise order before moving forward with these projects. Dan Helmer wrote a very detailed letter to the Prince William Times yesterday concerning data centers.

[06:20:27] I hope everyone had a chance to read it. When he wins CD10 primary and is elected in November, he will push the federal government to get involved in these projects that will impact the entire East Coast electric grid. This is a major concern for the voters. Please look at long-range planning.

[06:20:46] Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Kashmiric. Next speaker, please. There's no more speakers. All right. Thank you, Ms. Vann, as always for your assistance tonight. Back to you, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you so very much. As I had mentioned at the start of the 7 o'clock meeting, we have a couple changes.

[06:21:04] We do need to go into closed session. That was something we were unable to get to earlier. and then after that we will take up 7a and that'll be it for the day all right so let's go into

[06:21:16] closed session back from closed session i um we have a couple things to report out

[06:21:58] so yes we're going to certify some movement here second all right let's take guess what do we um sorry do we report out or do we start yeah no we certify it then we report all right

[06:22:14] all right we got two things report out all right madam chair um i'd like to make a motion that we authorize a public hearing to consider the approval of a sixth amendment to the amended agreement of sale with innovation development llc for the formerly uh county-owned property

[06:22:47] at innovation park located at 11 100 university boulevard manassas virginia 2 0 1 0 9 and consisting of approximately 22.32 acres in the brittsville magisterial district Second. All right.

[06:23:04] I don't think there's any discussion, so let's vote.

[06:23:17] Vote unanimous. Supervisor Weir abstaining from vote. All right. And then we have our second. Without objection, the board hereby appoints and designates Supervisor Margaret Franklin as the voting delegate for the 2024 National Association of Counties Annual Conference and Business Meeting.

[06:23:37] Second. You're good? Oh, just reporting out. Okay. All right. Yay. So now we are going to move back onto our final item, and that is 7A.

[06:23:55] That is the only thing we have under Supervisor's time. So, Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. Much has been made of this, and I'll keep it relatively short, and I would point simply to the now therefore be resolved clause, particularly the last two clauses of the paragraph which define what this is, and they read as follows.

[06:24:24] As generally shown on the attachment, with additional edits as appropriate, this is a framework for consideration. is by no means a finished product. Why are we here? If you look at every jurisdiction around us, they're all addressing this issue, and they've addressed it in rather short order. Fairfax County did it in three months at board directive in terms of the expedited process. One of the

[06:25:00] reasons that this is necessary, and some will call this piling on staff, I don't consider it that, but there's already a previous directive in place from more than three years ago, And that directive has gone nowhere because staff of its own volition decided to pigeonhole it.

[06:25:22] That's not their decision. We set the policy. We issue the directive. Staff fulfills it. I don't blame Mr. Shorter. He wasn't here when fulfillment of the directive was pigeonholed by the previous planning director.

[06:25:41] We just heard two cases. They sort of demonstrate the shortcomings and a diminishing value of the data center overlay. Not more than 18 months ago, we had economic development sitting in here screaming that essentially the data overlay was dead because there were no 100-acre parcels and nobody could build a data center on less than 100 acres.

[06:26:11] That's been proven definitively false, both inside and outside of the overlay. One of the problems that we're now facing, and again, as demonstrated tonight, is that many of the remaining parcels within the overlay are those that lie closest to schools.

[06:26:31] There aren't many that can tell you why the overlay was initiated and why it was drafted. I'm one of the few. These revisions are based on the original draft language, which I have because I wrote it.

[06:26:54] It was written at a time that the type of growth in the industry was not anticipated. It was done to address a specific problem. And the specific problem at the time was there were no constraints on data centers prior to 2014 in Prince William County.

[06:27:18] In fact, we didn't even have a definition for it. Part of the overlay discussion was creating a definition and what zoning districts they could go in as well as associated substations.

[06:27:40] 2014 was anywhere, anytime, next to anything. And I've heard it posited multiple times by many people in support of particular projects.

[06:27:57] That the overlay is flawed because it puts the possibility of a data center next to a school. Well, let me tell you what it was like prior to the overlay being written. It couldn't be just near schools within the overlay.

[06:28:13] It could be near schools, every school in the county. That's how unconstrained the industry was prior to this. The overlay was designed to make use of existing transmission corridors and the existing corridors in the utility plan.

[06:28:38] As Dominion will tell you, if you ask them directly or if you're in a meeting with them that is not open to the public, those transmission corridors do not have the power. Dominion does not have the generation capacity, and the transmission capacity is years away and billions of dollars of expenditures away, and those billions of dollars of expenditures will fall on the rate payers and will not fall on the industry.

[06:29:09] It's an unforeseen circumstance. Call us naive at the time, but what's happened needs to be addressed. We've ignored triggers, and we've created great uncertainty for residents.

[06:29:36] If we had stayed within the confines of the overlay, I would suggest we might not be here but we haven't. We've strayed far outside it. I think somebody mentioned earlier that the SUP process needs to be tightened up and needs to have more teeth added to it. I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly. But we need to deal with this comprehensively, because it's not just the data centers. It's the other industries as well. I can't count the number of small businesses,

[06:30:11] small businesses with an equal number of employees, that those that claim they are being impacted by this and quite frankly it's not really the impact that they claim it is but those who are being forced out of the county taking their revenue dollars and their employees with them are they electrical contractors no they're roofers plumbers other service industries that are being forced out of their leases because we've created a market that they can't compete in for land and

[06:30:43] they're being pushed into other jurisdictions there's a lot of misconceptions out there some would call it deceptions, I wouldn't. I'd refer to it more as deflection and a lack of understanding of what this zoning text amendment would do in some form or another and what it won't do.

[06:31:07] Here's what it won't do. It will not impact any entitled applications. I don't want to hear about that. If an application is being approved and entitled, particularly in a zoning district that with or without an SUP in the future allows for a data center, there is not a damn thing this board can do. Nobody's rights are being infringed. Nobody's investments are being infringed, so long

[06:31:38] as they've already got an approval with a GDP or a site plan. The sky isn't falling, but we need to address it, and we need to get out in front of this. So I'll just leave it at that. I don't have any particular belief that what we're looking at here as a proposed text will be the final text, but we had to have a starting point, and that's all this is to serve as. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[06:32:16] do you want to make your motion move to initiate zta do we have a number on it no um initiate a zoning text amendment for data center opportunity zone overlay district countywide second all right discussion i see supervisor gordian q thank you madam chair um yesterday i spent an hour with dominion trying to figure out how in the world they were going to get power to the data center overlay the whole point of the overlay is put data centers where the power was

[06:32:51] the power is consumed. And so now we have a project in Hornbaker where we need to bring power to the site, but then we need a reliability. And that reliability is going to be coming from the agricultural area through the residential area. And this is just for one, one data center campus. We haven't even begun to understand what the rest of the impacts from all the other data

[06:33:23] centers are going to be. If you take a look at the overlay and don't look at it in a solid color, look at it in a transparent color. What's left? Much of the land that's in the overlay in the Brentsville and Gainesville districts particularly are already occupied by business. And right now there are land speculators going and they're assembling these parcels that already have auto

[06:33:58] parts auto dealer or auto repair shops. They have recycling plants. They have everything from dance studios, tile stores, you name it. It's a broad spectrum. Everything that you can think of is there to include very large companies like U.S. Foods, Merrifield Nursery, Jiffy Lube. All of these are in the data center overlay. And there are data center developers putting offers on the

[06:34:34] table for every landowner for all those sites almost on a weekly basis. So the question then becomes, what are we giving up here? When we talk about trying to diversify our economy, we're actually moving in the wrong direction. We're putting all of our eggs in the data center basket. And so moving forward, this isn't just green space development where we're just going to put a data center. We're going to be losing something and probably losing more jobs than

[06:35:05] going to be created. And again, as Supervisor Weir said, now we're abutting schools. We're abutting residential, even more so. And I'll just remind, the largest two data center projects that have been approved were outside the overlay, Devlin and Pageland. And neither one of them will be stopped by this ZTA. They will not be affected by it. They will not lose any rights

[06:35:39] under this ZTA. Right now, we are at about 9 million square feet of data centers in operation in Prince William County. We are going to over 80 million square feet, if not by over 100 million.

[06:35:56] Tomorrow night, I'm attending a meeting for Dominion, and again, trying to figure out how to get power to the data center overlay from outside the overlay for the Atlantic Research project. And that in alone is going to be millions of square feet of data centers by right. And that's the perfect place for them. That's a super fun site. Put them there. It's bounded by an interstate and industrial area. Great place for them. But yet the power's not there. And yet the transmission

[06:36:29] lines run right by them. My district alone will surpass Loudoun County as the data center capital of the world, my magisterial district, based on what's already approved or what is already in process. So this is not a matter of whether or not Prince William County is going to have data centers. We're going to have more data centers than Loudoun County, but it's time to tap the brakes and bring some level of discipline and control by this board rather than just allowing

[06:37:06] by right to continue to take place because, like I said, we are giving up stuff now in order to gain data centers. This is not a simple plus one. And so there is no harm in us in seeking more in future debate on this ZTA. Let it move forward. Let's see. Let's look at the overlay.

[06:37:32] Let's see what we ought to protect and keep in there. Let's see what we need to take out. And let's have that debate on whether or not to remove by-right development going forward. So I will be supporting this, and I hope my colleagues will be too.

[06:37:48] And I look forward to a robust discussion on this going forward. All right, anyone else? All right, I saw some people that got the cue. I'm just going to say something really quickly before we vote. There was a directive given well before I was on this board, and it wasn't fulfilled.

[06:38:04] And I gave a new directive on examining the overlay. And I did that in hopes that it would be a faster process. And I am asking again that it be expedited. I am asking that it respectfully be a priority, a priority directive with the planning department.

[06:38:24] We can talk about that, you know, I'll find time. I can find time to speak about that, but that needs to be a priority. And the reason why you hear Supervisor Rear and Supervisor Gordy so passionately speaking about this is because so much of this development impacts Brinsville and Gainesville.

[06:38:41] And if you noticed last week, you know, the people who, and even today we're speaking about data centers, are from Gainesville. It's a very raw personal issue for a lot of people. And so, you know, I am asking that planning expedite the directive.

[06:39:01] I'm, you know, I know that you have your feelings, your thoughts on that, Supervisor Rear, and I'll let you go before we take a vote. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one last note. Been a lot of forum letters talking about the DCOAG.

[06:39:20] Let me tell you what the DCOAG is not about. It's not about the overlay. DCOAG is about noise, and almost exclusively noise. So those that are pitching, wait until the DCOAG is done.

[06:39:39] It's going to be a long time, and it's going to result in noise ordinance recommendations. It has little to nothing to do with the overlay. All right.

[06:39:56] Supervisor Weir, I don't have anyone else. So let's go ahead and take our vote. Motion fails, two to six. Supervisors Angry, Bailey, Bodie, Franklin, Vega, and Chair Jefferson voting nay.

[06:40:17] all right thank you everyone so we are on to our final um our final item and that is

[06:40:28] adjournment so moved madam chair all right let's vote thank you very much our next meeting will be on tuesday um what is july 2nd thank you

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