Coraggio Consulting
Prince William Board of County Supervisors Meeting, Tuesday, December 10, 2024

Date: Tuesday, December 10, 2024
Place: Prince William County Board of County Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 9h 3m (video)
Official meeting video (Prince William County, Granicus): https://pwcgov.granicus.com/player/clip/3586
Official Board of County Supervisors page (Prince William County): https://www.pwcva.gov/department/board-county-supervisors

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-31. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:07:01] gave everyone a warning, but no one was listening. So it is now two o'clock. We're going to start our meeting. We're going to start with a moment of silence. Thank you. Please rise, if you are able, for the Pledge of Allegiance.

[00:07:29] Flag, United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, I'm going to be stepping down to the podium because we are very honored. We're on to the award presentation to be receiving an award from the Virginia Environmental Excellence Program.

[00:07:56] Thank you. If you can come to the podium. Good afternoon, and thank you very much for having us. My name is Richard Doucette.

[00:08:12] I'm the regional director for the Northern Regional Office of the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality. Over the years, I've stood in this room before, and these are one of the happy times we're here, and always happy to celebrate the achievements that Prince William has done. Prince William is a remarkable county.

[00:08:28] We have our office right down the street in Woodbridge, and we work very closely with everybody within your government. And again, I just want to say you hold the gold standard in our eyes. So thank you for everything you do. We're here to talk about the Virginia Environmental Excellence Program.

[00:08:44] And Prince William is one of the original earliest members of this program. This program is aiming to allow facilities to do voluntary activities and find ways to help the environment. Prince William was exceptionally nice.

[00:08:59] And they actually took several of their E3, or the Exemplary Environmental Enterprise, and combined them. So not are we helping the environment, we're also doing less paperwork, and that helps everybody. Also, their Solid Waste Division is actually an E4 member, which is the Extraordinary Environmental Excellence Enterprise Program.

[00:09:18] And they have a long history of doing things above and beyond with their Hazardous Waste Program, helping out the citizens, helping out the community, and really driving environment first in this community. VEEP is our voluntary program, and this has facilities to be committed into finding and following the regulations, but also finding ways to improve it.

[00:09:41] I want to take a moment just to recognize some of the ways that Prince William County has improved their environmental effort. Countywide policies have been established to protect the watershed, which is extremely important. They have bottle-filling station programs that prevent the use of plastic bottles.

[00:09:57] They have a strong fuel tank inspection program to help with spill response. And they have a chemical management program that has reduced the generation of hazardous chemicals by over 80%. By looking at all the different ways they can fill this void and provide services to their community and to themselves, it allows us to recognize you for doing more for the environment than is required.

[00:10:19] So we do want to point out that the Solid Waste Division continues to maintain their E4 certification. And my background is in waste, and I've been here before to talk about Possum Point and other things. And this is one of those occasions where we get to look at all the great ways your landfill is operating and running and helping the citizens, but also being a landmark for people to follow.

[00:10:42] So when people ask me, I need to look at a permit, which permit do I point them to? I point them to your landfill permit. So you are not only getting an award for this, but you're also held in high regards for our sake. So I just want to say thank you again. Congratulations. And we look forward to working with you in the future.

[00:11:04] do you want us out in the atrium or so for the folks in the audience and online watching they're

[00:12:33] taking a quick moment to take some more pictures more folks out in the atrium that was part of this

[00:12:37] presentation that want to take pictures with the chair so just give us a second please all right

[00:14:31] the chair's back in the building everyone okay we're gonna move on to item four approval of the minutes can i get a motion to approve the minutes of november 19th 20 november 19th or is it supposed

[00:14:47] to be 22nd november 19th all right so move madam chair second all right let's take a vote vote

[00:15:23] unanimous thank you all right we're moving on to the consent agenda um anyone has any things that they'd like to pull speak now forever hold your peace all right 5a madam chair all right 5a anyone else supervisor vega thank you madam chair 5h and 5-0 5-0 all right so i would like

[00:15:58] to get a motion 5b through 5g 5i i's with wrong j 5j someone wanted 5j off no i is with wrong oh yeah i was with wrong i'm sorry five okay yes 5a through 5h 5b through 5h yeah i'm sorry 5b i'm looking around okay 5b through 5h and then 5j through 5n and 5p so move manager second

[00:16:37] All right. Any discussion? It looks like we have a few. Supervisor Gordy. Madam Chair, on item 5M, I'm sorry, 5L, I'm real excited about the opportunity that this presents to us as we are preparing to purchase the Ned Distiller House in the Buckland Mills area.

[00:17:04] Ned Distiller was a freed black who purchased his own property in the Buckland Mills, and it was the first home mortgaged by a black man in Virginia and potentially in the nation. And our opportunity to celebrate and honor his life through this project is incredible.

[00:17:27] I appreciate all the work that our Parks and Recs Department has done to work with the owner and seller of the property to bring this to fruition. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you so much. Supervisor Franklin. Sure, yes, thank you. Just want to highlight item 5J.

[00:17:43] I know Parks and Recs has been doing an excellent job over the past several years working with the First T program. I know Supervisor Angry has been out to the tournament, and this particular grant will help to purchase golf clubs for those participating in the program.

[00:17:59] So thank you to Parks and Recs for continuing this program. Incredibly, incredibly useful for our youth in the county who are learning the game of golf. And as we just came on the hills of Solheim, I think it's incredibly important that we push these types of programs.

[00:18:18] So thank you, Seth, and to your team, and thanks to the county. All right. Thank you. Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just very quickly, 5C just wanted to again highlight and uplift Rick and his team for all the work they've been doing on the Summit School Road Extension and Telegraph Road Riding Project.

[00:18:34] It's just a street name change, but it shows a landmark and a milestone in this project. If you ever have been out to Telegraph or Caton Hill or Minnieville, you'll see that that project is moving along, which will create a lot of more connectivity to different parts of my district, including in that small area plan.

[00:18:54] 5F, just wanted to thank the town of Occoquan for their collaboration, their companionship on 5F. This is going to really help deliver more connectivity to the town of Occoquan and, frankly, help connect to overall the Occoquan Greenway, once that's up and running, which will run from the town of Occoquan all the way to where we sit right now.

[00:19:12] So great project there. and also wanted to finally highlight 5H, the net zero emissions plan for the county facilities and fleet. So really wanted to highlight all the work that's being done around sustainability and clean energy in the county.

[00:19:28] And just last week, we had one of the very first electric vehicles for the county parked outside of McCourt. So really wanted to highlight that as well. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. Looks like Supervisor Gordy is back for more. Yeah, just one more. 5M, this is a partnership with the American Battlefield Trust to donate and purchase land to Prince William County that is part of the Bristow Station Battlefield.

[00:19:54] Through a great partnership with the American Battlefield Trust, they've been able to acquire the land, seek grants to help us gain this to expand the Bristol Battlefield to more of the core area, some of the hottest fighting sites of the battle.

[00:20:13] And so just want to again thank our Parks and Recreation for all the hard work and for the American Battlefield Trust for their efforts in this as well. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you so much. We're going to take a vote on these before we go on to the ones that we pulled. Vote unanimous.

[00:20:33] All right. Thank you so very much. We're going to go on now to item 5A. Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. I pulled 5A because I have a fundamental problem with putting CPA initiations for third parties on consent.

[00:20:51] I think, you know, generally speaking, in the past, even CPAs for third parties that we are electing to decide whether to initiate or not have always been given a staff presentation. I'm relatively neutral on the underlying premise for it, but just for transparency sake and because I'm not just fond of putting such things, land use applications, especially at what appears to be a treble density of what's existing, I am not going to vote yes, but I will probably abstain, but I don't believe that in the future we should put these on consent.

[00:21:24] Thank you. Supervisor Angry. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Supervisor Ware, because as we've discussed, I know this is a process issue. I want to speak a little bit to the project. This is a great project, and a couple of years back when I publicly went out and said that we wanted to look at revitalizing the Neabsco District and do something with these shopping malls, we had a great partner come in, even new developer to Princeton County, and it's Rock Creek who we've gone through and we've spent some time and looked at the entire area and came up with a very valuable plan, good plan for growth along this corridor.

[00:22:04] So this is my high-density corridor that we are looking to put in high-density along with bus rapid transit and really improve this corridor for the very simple thing that we've all been discussing here is housing. So understanding that this process needs to be tweaked, And I believe we've gotten that solution going forward.

[00:22:24] This project is a great project. And this is just an initiation to give our planning office the opportunity to vet this and look and see if they have any holes in it or what could be potentially even better. So thank you, Madam Chair. All right.

[00:22:41] With my apologies to Supervisor Weir because I'm channeling some – I'm feeling some Bob energy right now. We're going to have to lock down on process because I don't want other applicants to come to us and be like well why was the cpa on the consent agenda but we have to do the dog and pony show for ours so this is a failure of process i am going to take some responsibility because normally the county executive and i meet on mondays to go through everything and we did not have a chance to meet prior to this you know needing to be dispatched but this is a failure of process and

[00:23:21] i've addressed my concerns you know with mr shorter and i'm going to address my concerns with others because we can't allow this to happen again things have to be standard for a reason We've got to treat everyone the same. I did speak with the applicant earlier. There was concern that maybe this, you know, wouldn't move forward.

[00:23:39] I don't have a problem with the project, you know, with what I've read. But I really want to make sure that we lock down on the process and that each board member is able to be briefed on things like this. So that's all I want to say on this. So moving forward, you know, hopefully I don't anticipate this happening again.

[00:23:57] I guess I'm not really Bob, okay, because Bob is more, you know, I had a little fire earlier, but our clerk is wonderful, and she had the best candy out there. So that's kind of calmed me down a little bit, that sugar high. So I just want to, you know, say that.

[00:24:13] Did we make a motion on this? Yeah, Madam Chair, I'll make a motion to approve 5A. Second. And then I see Supervisor Franklin Dembote. Yeah, sure. I just was going to make a comment to the process. Maybe that's something we can, each office can chat about, I guess, with the planning office, Because I think the reason I can't speak to this particular project that some things are put on consent is if there may be a timing issue with the project, especially if it's supposed to be non-controversial.

[00:24:47] So I'm not sure if I want to completely just say that moving forward, we're not going to put any land use on consent, particularly if we may be in a time crunch with that particular project. But I certainly think it's something that we should continue to talk about.

[00:25:04] And I want to clarify, I'm not saying any land use, we're talking about specifically CPAs, which generally have their own process. Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just sort of to speak to both sort of things. One, thank you, Sir, as I'm aware, thank you, Sir, as I'm angry, for giving more color to it.

[00:25:20] I agree generally that CPA initiations should probably be, frankly, at least in my opinion, under agency time, they're given a chance to sort of pull it out, sort of talk through it. Because to me, CPAs, even we're initiating as sort of a higher thing than just our sort of usual run-of-the-mill changing, you know, street names, some of the other issues we talked about here.

[00:25:43] To the timing, I agree with that 100%. We don't want to hold stuff up, but I just think from a clarity standpoint, they should be sort of separated out. But that said, I want to commend you, so I'm angry, on getting this to this point because my understanding is a CPA that's going to have a concurrent rezoning.

[00:25:58] Always love to see that, too. It's right next to the Queensdale Shopping Center. So it's a great place to have more density. Frankly, it's always sort of boggled my mind that this empty field right across from a shopping center. I'm hoping that we can have really good conversation around not only BRT, but more express buses from maybe this new neighborhood.

[00:26:15] I know you're sure you're keyed up to have those conversations all the way to places like VRE, Potomac Mills, what have you. So we're looking forward to staff's analysis of it. So I'll be supporting this. Thank you. - Thank you so very much. That's all we have for comments. Let's take a vote.

[00:26:35] Vote unanimous, Supervisor Weir abstaining from vote. All right, now we're going to move on to 5-H, Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I saw Matt walk in here. There he is. Hi, Matt.

[00:26:53] As you get adjusted for folks here and watching at home, 5-H is to ratify a grant application to the United States Department of Energy to develop a net zero emissions plan for Prince William County government facilities, authorize their grant agreement, and accept budget and appropriate $421,130.

[00:27:11] Matt, my question to you is that it says that the first goal was to reduce county-wide greenhouse gas emissions by 50% from 2005 levels by 2030. Do we have a number as to how much has been reduced since 2005? We do have a number.

[00:27:27] Matt Villarreal, Director of Facilities and Fleet Management. We do have a number. I don't know that number off the top of my head. We don't have a number. We do not have a number. I'm sorry. It's something that I think we have a general idea as an overall of the county, but as far as like our facilities and fleet, I couldn't divide you that.

[00:27:47] Okay, so we just have a general idea. How close are we to 100% renewable energy countywide? Do we know? I couldn't give you a percentage. I don't think it's real close. You think it's real close, but you do not think. I do not think it's real close. Okay, thank you. Madam Chair and to my colleagues in the county executive, I do plan on speaking a lot about the JLARC report that came out this week.

[00:28:09] And the reason why I bring this up is because we keep talking about sustainability measures and we keep talking about these moonshot goals that I warned about when we first went down this road. We cannot talk about creating or developing plans without considering the JLARC report and the impacts that a certain industry is going to have to set goals.

[00:28:29] And so the reason why I asked those questions was, one, because I wanted to see if we've made any improvements. And if so, what are those improvements? Because I didn't see them listed by staff on the agenda. And two, we've got to be thinking ahead, right, considering what came and what's included in this JLARC report and what that means for sustainability measures in Prince William County.

[00:28:49] I don't think that the goals that have been set are achievable. While I do appreciate the intent right behind the Office of Sustainability and all of these sustainability measures, at the end of the day, My position has always been that if we're going to set a goal, it has to be one that we're actually going to achieve, and then we can get a little more aggressive and set reasonable goals, real goals, that will later on get us to the end goal, but I am not going to be voting in favor of this.

[00:29:16] I understand that whenever we get monies, it doesn't necessarily mean that we have to vote in favor of receiving those funds, and so for those reasons, Madam Chair, I will not be supporting item 5-H. All right, this is on me.

[00:29:33] I'd like to actually, let's call for a motion and then let's contain all the motion to second and contain all the discussion there. Move to approve. Second. All right. Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Sura Zavega, I appreciate your commentary on it. I also looked through the JLARC study, and there's a lot of concerns around it.

[00:29:52] I know that there will probably be a lot more discussion about that, especially next week, knowing who's going to be before us. I did want to say that, yes, there are other segments and other industries that are continuing towards our greenhouse gas emissions. but we also know that vehicles play an outsized role.

[00:30:08] County facilities are under our purview. We have an opportunity, at least as much as that's concerned, do something to help curb our greenhouse gas emissions, do something to help, frankly, cut some of the energy bills of our county facilities. To me, this, what we're voting on right now, is a step in that direction.

[00:30:28] That's why I've supported these types of initiatives in the past. That's why I support it moving forward. And I actually want to commend Matt and his team and the county exec and everyone else who brought this together to apply for these funds to begin with, because it helps get us federal funds to help us belt and suspenders beginning that long-term planning in so much as fleet vehicles, facilities especially, start to do what we can as a county under that umbrella to do what we can from climate sustainability.

[00:30:54] So just wanted to say thank you. I'll be supporting this. So I want to have Vega, then Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Supervisor Bodie. I do look forward to that conversation, and I just want to say that the conversation has to be holistic. We talk about, you know, fleet here in Prince William County in terms of our county government and what vehicles we use and how we operate, but let's not also ignore the land use component of achieving these sustainability goals.

[00:31:16] If we want to talk about vehicles, let's talk about high-density projects that are being moved forward, left and right. And so, again, if we're going to be about it, we've got to be about it. We can't just say something to check a box or to make us feel good so that we can then show face. We actually need policy that's going to have teeth to it, and we actually need to set goals that are going to be reasonable and achievable.

[00:31:37] All right, Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. Matt, if I ask a couple of questions. It talks about we have to develop a plan. Do you have a timeline for that plan? I see, you know, some of the goals of the plan, but how long do you think that this is going to take in order to complete?

[00:31:57] It'll take about a year. About a year? Okay. All right, thank you. You're welcome. All right, we don't have any other speakers, so let's take a vote. Motion passes, 6 to 1.

[00:32:16] Supervisor Vega voting nay. Supervisor Weir abstaining from vote. All right, let's go on to Agenda Item 5-0. Let's get a motion and then... So moved, Madam Chair. Second. All right, Supervisor Vega.

[00:32:33] Thank you, Madam Chair. I see Dan here in the front row. Dan, could you please make your way forward? And the reason why I'm calling you up is because it says here on the agenda that this falls under safe and secure communities, although it's something that's going to be awarded to the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office if the board so chooses to.

[00:32:52] Dan, did you review this application before it went out? Dan Alexander, Deputy County Executive, we did not have a role in putting the staff report or this item together. We have representatives from the Commonwealth Attorney and Public Defender here to answer any questions regarding it. Sure, and if I feel the need to ask them questions, I will.

[00:33:08] But my question then is, why is it being lumped into safe and secure communities? Is it just because it has a criminal justice component to it? I think because those are considerably as on agencies that it's considered part of the quadrant in terms of organization and how we present it to you.

[00:33:24] Okay, and thank you for that. And, Madam Chair and Mr. Shorter, the reason why I ask the question is because I was curious. I obviously go through the agenda and I click on everything that needs to be clicked so that I make sure that I'm aware of what I'm voting for. And some concerns were raised when I was looking at what was presented.

[00:33:43] For starters, it says that the Commonwealth Attorney's Office partnered with Restorative Arlington to apply for this grant under a restorative justice initiative. The Commonwealth Attorney's Office was awarded $24,500 from October 1st, 2024, through October 1st, 2026. There is a video on this organization's page that's a 501c3 that, again, raises red flags for me.

[00:34:05] I don't know if my colleagues on the dais watched the video, but I called Dan up because if we're going to somehow connect one of our agencies that is primarily responsible for safe and secure communities, I think that it would be important for this office to vet this process and or for the board to be aware of what it is that we're asking because it may very well be that some of the things that this organization believes in or pushes for are not in the best interest of Prince William County citizens and their safety.

[00:34:33] and so um you know when you watch the video it's a very short video it's under two minutes but it talks about um restorative measures ranging from charges from vandalism all the way up to murder and what that may look like in terms of paying back um you know the the community for what you did and or victims and so i just you know want to caution the board and um suggest that if items of the like are going to be applied for that we are briefed beforehand to make sure that this is something that we want to actually go ahead and push forward and that we actually fully vet this and that we think about perhaps the unintended consequences. With the issues that I'm raising,

[00:35:11] I am not in any way, shape, or form saying that I don't believe in restorative measures. It's just that when you watch the video, it's very contradicting and the images that they depict in the video are not images that I personally agree or approve of. And I think that if my colleagues would have watched the video, perhaps they would have had a certain feeling about the message that is being sent and so um i i i am not going to be voting for this but mr shorter i do ask that in the future um the board is somehow briefed and that if dan and his office is going to be somehow connected to this initiative that he at the very least um you know have more of a say

[00:35:47] as to whether or not we want to move down this road supervisor weir thank you madam chair do we have anybody from commonwealth's attorney's office here and while they come up i would like to note we have Tracy Lennox here today. She is our defender. Alex Brandler from the Commonwealth Attorney's Office. Thank you. One quick question that's sort of bugging me here. I'm reading the report and in the staff copy it says Commonwealth Attorney with restorative justice will run a test

[00:36:25] case. This test case involves one defendant currently being prosecuted within the 31st Jurisdictional District for a criminal offense and through cooperation yada yada yada. Two questions. I'm assuming the 31st Judicial District that this defendant is actually somebody in Prince William County Court? Correct. Okay. Second question, a more important question. How was this individual chosen? What was the criteria? How does this impact other cases? You know, what is this, what are we testing with this test case? Well, what we're testing and what we're

[00:37:00] trying to create from the ground up is an avenue to divert certain types of cases to the restorative justice process as we stand here today we have no existing program for adult criminal defendants to even explore the area of restorative justice so I have to create from the ground up the program get the people involved into the program to help me screen appropriate cases for that journey so to speak and then our office will serve as a filter to ensure that only appropriate cases with victim

[00:37:36] approval enter the journey of restorative justice. In this particular case that I reference in the grant application, the entire idea to go down the restorative justice route came from the victim himself, a victim of a serious felony offense, came to me, the assigned prosecutor, and told me this is a route that I want you to explore. It is my duty, I would argue, to explore that on behalf of a serious felony victim, and that's precisely what I'm doing here.

[00:38:07] So to be clear, in lieu of hiring a consultant to build from the ground up, we're going to partner with Restorative Justice? Restorative Justice is currently, they're partnered with the Arlington Commonwealth Attorney's Office. They're funded through the exact same grant that I've applied for here today. They're funded much more heavily than the $24,500 that I've been awarded because they handle many more cases up in Arlington.

[00:38:30] But, yes, they will be coming down here, expanding their operation to Prince William County, and hopefully it will help everyone involved. Supervisor Vega. Thank you. Could you give me an example of what type of cases and or charges would qualify? There's no specific, really anything from vandalism to serious felony offenses.

[00:38:50] But I want to stress the number one criteria that I would take and my office would take into consideration. It would be a bar to even going down that route is if the victim of that crime does not approve. Restorative justice only concerns cases in which there's an actual victim.

[00:39:07] So, for example, drug possession would not be a restorative justice type of case because there's no actual individual victim to consult. But in a case, maybe a bar fight or something more serious or a larceny or a robbery, if the victim wants restorative justice to be investigated, such as the case that is the test case here today, that is something that we would consider.

[00:39:30] And then there would obviously be other criteria if it's in the interest of the community, if the defendant's on board with it with their attorney there's a lot of moving parts that they'd all have to be in line for us to go down that route all right thank you um so so to be clear um i didn't just want to make sure the video mentioned vandalism all the way up into murder um vandalism was mentioned here and or the more serious ones but i just want to um manage expectations and for all of us to be um aware of what it is that um i guess here in the near future we're going to know the full details as to what the the program is going to look like and the big takeaway is the victim, I guess, has to be in agreement with it and be pushing for it. Thank

[00:40:08] you. Absolutely. I don't see any other questions. I do want to say the fact that the victim is someone who has raised this as a concern and someone who is pushing for that, that says a lot to me. That speaks a lot. And so I just wanted to comment on that because, I mean, again, this is someone who has been harmed but feels that there is another way or feels that this person who perpetrated this harm on them, you know, can be redeemed. And so that's something for us to really consider, that this is something, and, you know, I trust that your office obviously put a lot of

[00:40:45] time and thought into this and, you know, in applying to this grant, but also how this program would work. So I just wanted to briefly name that. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair, for allowing me to come behind you. I wanted to just comment, and I apologize to you, sir, that I did not have an audience with you, but I did have an audience with the Commonwealth Attorney, and just trying to understand what this is and so um her explanation was very detailed to me i didn't i i respect the fact that my colleague looked at the video please share that with me because i didn't have a chance to look at the video but i feel very comfortable in how you are attempting to

[00:41:22] broaden your service to our county as it relates to the victim i agree with madam madam chair in that respect because i think it's necessary as we give a higher level of service in our county from the commonwealth's attorney's office i trust in your intent i trust in your office's intent and so we would like to have once you get everything settled with the grant more details and coming back to us just to let us know if this pilot project is in effect and how we need to move forward and dan thank you wherever dan is thank you for coming to the podium um supervisor weir thank you madam chair the more i think about this the more i kind of have a philosophical

[00:42:02] problem with it and you know it comes down to this if victim a pushes for this and let's say it's assault and for whatever reason victim a has a has a relationship with the perpetrator victim a is soft-hearted victim a doesn't want to see anybody go to jail and they go through this restorative process and then the guy immediately the perpetrator then immediately goes out and

[00:42:33] assaults victim B, then what do you do? I don't know that we should be putting justice in the hands of the victim. It creates a real uncomfortable situation for me, and I'll leave it at that.

[00:42:50] If I could respond. Justice is not in the hands of the victim. Justice remains in the hands of the Office of the Commonwealth Attorney. We use the victim's thoughts and prayers as one part of a multifaceted formula to consider whether a specific case is appropriate. At no point do We relinquish our ability to divert the case back into the criminal justice system, if that's appropriate.

[00:43:14] And I would hope that you would have confidence in our office's ability to triage the appropriate types of cases for this endeavor. All right. I have two people. I'm going to go to Supervisor Bailey, then Vega to close out. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just quickly, my question is, One of the things that we are attempting to do collectively within the region as we serve is to partner with our regional colleagues.

[00:43:42] Could you just enlighten us quickly as to why did you decide to partner with your regional colleagues? Restorative Arlington is actually an entity that was introduced to me by my colleagues on the other side in the defense bar, the Office of the Public Defender, who represents the individual charged in this test case that I'm dealing with right now, they were the ones who actually reached out to Restorative Arlington and sort of initiated the process and got them involved in our case.

[00:44:15] So Ms. Lennox is here, Mr. Cohen is here from the Office of Public Defender. If you'd like to know about how we came into contact with them initially, I think they're more appropriate to answer that question. Ms. Lack.

[00:44:37] Good afternoon. Thank you for inviting me to speak. Restorative justice is, you know, it's a criminal justice sort of like concept that sometimes as defense attorneys you want to try to approach some things because it's in your client's interest sometimes to go this route.

[00:44:54] Having said that, what the Commonwealth's attorney here said is true, that the Commonwealth retains control over what happens with these cases from the beginning to the end. It can have good effects for the victim. It can also have good effects for the defense attorney or for the defendant, but there's no guarantee of that.

[00:45:10] There are not robust restorative justice programs in northern Virginia outside of the Arlington program. There are some really robust ones in, like, Vermont and some other places. But when, as defense attorneys, I'm trying to reach out, find out how I can resolve the case best for my client, this is the organization that is available regionally, that is already built out and is already – And I'm happy at any time, I'm sure Ms. Ashworth equally so, would be happy to talk about what restorative justice actually is.

[00:45:46] I think there's a lot of misinformation about what it is. What it really requires is the defendant to accept responsibility for the crime. That is requirement number one, and the victim, or maybe number two, because the victim has to desire the restorative process, and then the defendant has to accept responsibility.

[00:46:05] And so it's complicated. you have mediators, the attorneys kind of back out of it a little bit while the victim gets what they need from the process from a neutral. And so you have to find organizations that have the facility of having a neutral that can engage in the conversations. And that's why this is the organization in Northern Virginia that had already been built out and that could potentially facilitate a process. And we're hopeful to develop something like that. But yes, ma'am.

[00:46:38] I'm sorry. I'm hitting buttons. But thank you for your explanation. And to some, $25,000 may not be a lot of money. To us, it is. And I would say that this is an example, as you're trying to institute something for additional service in the county, that it shows that the Commonwealth Attorney's Office and your office working together for a common goal, Our ask is that we are explaining that before we get to this point.

[00:47:10] I think that would help us a lot more in supporting it. So thank you for your initiative and your proactiveness in doing so and your explanation. And, Madam, if I could just say to respond to your original question, there is actually a juvenile restorative justice program in place right now in Prince William County.

[00:47:28] This exists now in the juvenile realm, but it's run by the court services unit, which is uniquely only available to juveniles. There is not another program or something that we could build out from what we've got in the juvenile system that could be applied to adults.

[00:47:43] This is the Commonwealth's initiative to try to build that out. Thank you. Thank you, and thank you, Ms. Lennox. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess we can agree to disagree. I'm of the understanding that there's no such thing as a victimless crime, and, Supervisor Weir, the issues that you raised are pretty much spot on.

[00:48:01] as a law enforcement officer, I can tell you that there are different reasons that will drive a victim to perhaps not show up to court, to perhaps not seek further prosecution. There are so many different things, right? And at the end of the day, while we believe in restorative measures, we also have to keep the victims at the forefront of conversations and what will drive somebody to say, you know what, maybe there's another alternative. Maybe I don't want to move forward.

[00:48:24] So let's not lose sight of that. I also want to talk a little bit real quick about what we do offer here in Prince William County the video and the restorative Arlington organization talks about education talks about employment you know these are opportunities that are already offered here in Prince William County faith-based programs and one in particular that I really like personally is the victim impact program that runs through the Corrections Department and so we you know don't want the public to have this perception that there is there that there are no other alternative measures out there because they do exist and then And lastly, I don't know if, I won't ask it as a question, but more so just remind, right,

[00:49:03] my colleagues on the day is that when we do commit to accepting funds that come from outside entities, there are strings attached, and then we're committed to those strings. And that's all I have, Madam Chair. Thank you. All right, Supervisor Franklin. Chair, I'll just be very brief. I'm actually supportive of this program.

[00:49:19] We'll be supporting. My only question is, if there's an incredible success rate, which we hope there will be, How do we guarantee that there is ongoing support and resources for the program? So the grant before the board today is a two-year grant for a certain amount of money that is primarily directed at not only creating the framework of the program but funneling it towards our one case.

[00:49:47] Upon success, and I have to be able to give updates to the Department of Justice as to how we're doing, and if they think we're doing a good job, I'm kind of dumbing this down, But if they think we're doing a good job, there's an opportunity for that grant to increase and for the funding to increase.

[00:50:03] In the Commonwealth Attorney's Office in Arlington, they get a lot more money than $24,500 to have their program run. And I am hopeful that if the board adopts this, that we'll have a lot more money to work with in Prince William County. Sure, and just keep in mind the General Assembly. Yes.

[00:50:23] Madam Chair. Supervisor Gordy. I'm sorry, I couldn't get, I was sitting here looking. To go what you were just talking about, there are 44 conditions to this award based on what I'm looking at here. And in it, in the last condition, it says that we cannot draw down more than 10 percent of the award without preclearance from the feds. So who is responsible for ensuring that, I mean, the 44 boxes are checked as we go along? And how often does that

[00:51:01] have to be checked. It seems to me that there's a lot of administrative work to accept, manage, and comply and report on this award. Could you speak to that? There is, and that would be the responsibility of the Office of the Commonwealth's Attorney. We're going to obviously be aided by Restorative Arlington, who's already very familiar with this particular grant and how to check those boxes. They've been fully compliant up in Arlington in doing so, and they're definitely going to work and partner with our office to make sure the boxes are checked down here in Prince William.

[00:51:34] Yeah, and so, I mean, with this 10% drawdown limitation, how long, you know, from a, to what extent will this, I mean, $24,500, is that each year or spread over two years?

[00:51:50] No, that is the total amount over two years. Okay, so we're looking at $12,250 for, you know, $12,500 thereabouts for each year, and if we can only do 10%, that's about $1,200. So how far are we going to be able to take this in the short term?

[00:52:10] I'm not prepared to answer that question in terms of the actual 10% drawdown. I'm not familiar with the exact requirements. I haven't reviewed all 44 requirements. Restorative Arlington, who aided me in actually applying for the grant and who are going to be aiding in our compliance with it, I think would be more appropriate to answer that.

[00:52:30] I would not want to say the wrong thing in front of the board. I could get back to you with specifics on that question, if you'd like. Yeah, I think trying to understand how, if we're even going to be able to use this, given the number of conditions and the limitations on expending it, at least in the short term, and whether or not we can actually facilitate it to help this particular individual.

[00:52:54] If I could reply to that, all I can tell you is that this specific grant is extremely successful with the Office of the Commonwealth's Attorney up in Arlington, who obviously funds the Restorative Arlington entity with the same funds, so I think it'll be successful down here as well.

[00:53:12] Thank you. All right. Thank you so very much for coming and speaking with us today. Thank you. All right. I don't see any more questions or comments, so let's take a vote. Motion passes, 6 to 2.

[00:53:30] Supervisors Vega and Weir voting nay. All right, guys. We're now on to that time. It's called public comment time. Hold on one second. I got my handy little list. I'm going to call everyone up. We don't have too many people.

[00:53:45] Five at a time. I don't know if anyone else has signed up. Remember, you have three minutes to speak. And please state your name where you generally reside before you begin speaking. So I have Liz Kronauer, Elena Schlossberg, Eileen Sheridan, and Marty Noe.

[00:54:10] You may begin. Make sure you speak into the mic. Sure. I'm Liz Kronauer. I'm from the Brentsville District. I am on the Trails and Blue Ways Council, but I'm speaking today as a private citizen. I'm here today to thank you for approving item 5M, which was the acquisition of the additional land of historical significance in the Bristow Station battlefield area.

[00:54:37] I would also like to thank the American Battlefield Trust and the county's own Department of Parks and Recreation and the Office of Historic Preservation for this really significant achievement. This action will not only help preserve an important resource for the county, it makes significant progress in our goal towards 5,000 acres of parks and open space.

[00:55:01] As a member of the Trails and Blue Ways Council, I just can't help myself from talking about the opportunity for the expansion of the Battlefield Park and what it presents for trails in the area. And I want to make a plug for the creation of a safe pedestrian and equestrian set of connections to the existing Bristow Station Battlefield Park and eventually to the Brentsville Courthouse Historic Center, which is about three and a half miles away and contains the historic courthouse, the historic jail, the schoolhouse, and the Williams-Dawes House.

[00:55:35] And I also have a map, which I don't know how to display. Oh, is that going to take my... There we go. Perfect. So this is Brentsville, the existing park, And these red parcels are the new parcels.

[00:55:59] You can see there's a barrier caused by the railroad tracks coming along here. And then Bristow Road, Route 619, goes down this way. So to get across the railroad tracks, there's a couple of places.

[00:56:17] One is in the town of Bristow, and the other is over here where there's an existing at-grade crossing. And I think we need to keep an eye on that for future rezonings in the area.

[00:56:35] Today, though, the Brentsville Courthouse area is right down. The Countywide Trails Plan has some kind of bike trail plan for along Route 619 or maybe even just a widened shoulder.

[00:56:56] But there's also the Broad Run Greenway, which is on the Countywide Trail Plan. and that, and both of those would provide connections down to the historic center. The key is, as these parcels are developed along here and rezoned, as they are rezoned, then the staff and the board needs to be a bit vigilant about getting the trail resources that are needed.

[00:57:29] So that's it. Thank you. I'm sorry. That's it, and I want to thank you for your attention. You can leave that, I guess. Oh, okay. You want me to leave my back?

[00:57:49] Hello, everyone. It's been a while. My name is Elena Schlossberg. I'm in the Gainesville District. If I can please have Elmo. I didn't know that I would be speaking to something that my dear friend Liz was concerned about. Elmo, please. Okay. So I want everybody to please understand that where you see all the red where the American Battlefield Trust is, is under threat of a new 230 kV transmission line for data center development.

[00:58:17] So the JLARC study, everybody should have gotten a blast email today from the coalition, and it says, the hammer has arrived. Dear coalition supporters, and this is a quote, data centers could actually be hurting our wallets, and this is from a news story.

[00:58:40] Republicans and Democrats say new regulations are needed for data center industry in Virginia. Year after year, this community board of buses in the cold and headed to Richmond at the pre-dawn hours with the intention of convincing our legislators at data center proliferation was a threat not only to our communities, but to the Commonwealth as a whole.

[00:59:00] It has been our relentless pursuit of accountability and justice that has culminated in the nonpartisan objective truth of the JLARC study. I don't know why the data center industry has not culled their list to remove me, but I keep getting these mailers, this is a lie. They are not sustainable.

[00:59:23] and I'll show you why. Oh, you can't see it, but that column up top is called unconstrained. It is a new word. It will be my new favorite word. It's a made-up word, but I'm going to be using it. It's from JLARC. Unconstrained data center development is going to result in 183% increase in data center load demand. If we cut that in half, and once again, this is what's planned now. Cut what's

[00:59:59] planned in half, give some regulation. Now it only goes up to 99%. Building enough infrastructure to meet growing data center demand will be difficult. This board, Prince William County, is a part of the mess we are in now. I'm not saying this to be combative or blame you. I'm saying this because

[01:00:30] now is the time to make a change. What JLARC is predicting is that we are going to need a new 1.5 gigawatt gas plant one a year for the next 15 years of unconstrained and let this board sends a lobbyist to the general assembly in january of 2025 to get regulation thank you

[01:00:58] next speaker hello i'm eileen sheridan i live in the occoquan district and i'm here talking about the trails of blue ways council first i wanted to i can't get this up first there we go first i wanted to thank you for acknowledging our resolution and adding trails to the legislative agenda recently. That was very helpful. And I would like to make a request for you to

[01:01:35] also act on our resolution that we provided regarding CIP inclusion of some priority trail projects that we provided in a resolution in November from our October meeting. Each district uh representatives got together and identified which priority projects are in their district the comprehensive plan and the cip needs to fund them it's great to have trails but you need to fund them and the priorities that we provided included trails sidewalks

[01:02:16] put-ins and takeouts for kayaks and boats all all types of access and both transportation and parks and recreation so please as you work for the on the new budget please include trails as you work through that thank you so much her next speaker madam chair members of the board thank you for having me today my name is martin noe i live at 14760 kogan drive in the coles magisterial district uh first of all i want to note today

[01:02:55] is the fifth anniversary of my very last meeting as a member of this board and i want to thank you all for being here every Tuesday, so I don't have to be. And I'm here today for what I hope is a much less exciting meeting than my meeting was five years ago. I'm here actually today on behalf of my church, the congregation of which I'm a member, Potomac Valley Church, which meets in the Potomac Magisterial District in the town of Dumfries. And this Sunday, five days from now, this Sunday is our annual christmas service um we don't we know the folks uh want to be at home with their families on christmas morning so we have our christmas service about 10 days early and this

[01:03:35] year we're bringing back a tradition that we have not done every year but we're going to try to make it a permanent tradition is hosting our annual congregational cookie baking christmas cookie contest uh the reason i'm here today is uh we would like to invite each and every member of the board as well as county exec and the county attorney uh no pressure but we would love to have any one of you come, join us for our service at 11 o'clock at Potomac Valley Church, and more importantly, stick around, meet the members of our congregation, and then serve as judges for the cookie competition. If I recall correctly, Supervisor Franklin was one of our judges two years ago, the last time we did this. I took third place, by the way, so you know it's going

[01:04:12] to be a great experience if someone's able to beat me in a cookie contest. But we won again. We'd love to have you come out. Many of you have been to our church before. We'd like to see you again. And again, we do need judges for the competition. The other thing we want to let you and the entire community know about is Potomac Valley is hosting a toy drive this year. We've identified a number of communities in Prince William County, as well as a few in some of the other areas that we serve that are in desperate need of toys for families. Of course, this is something we all think about every year. So we'd like to ask anybody in the community who's willing to bring a new unwrapped toy to Potomac Valley Church. We're doing this also in cooperation with the Prince William Chamber of Commerce.

[01:04:50] So you can also bring it by the Chamber of Commerce offices or by my business. And we'll make sure that those toys get distributed to young people in the community who need them, to the families in the community whose kids need them. And we'd like to ask folks who want to give that, give a particular focus to families, to kids maybe who are a little bit older.

[01:05:07] A lot of people like to give toys for the little bitty kids, but the middle schoolers and the high schoolers, we've got need for those folks as well. So again, once again, we hope that the board members will be willing to join us. And we look forward to seeing you this Sunday. And on behalf of all of our friends at Potomac Valley Church, we hope you have a very blessed and peaceful holiday season, whether we see you this Sunday or not.

[01:05:25] Thanks so much. Thank you so very much. If I weren't allergic to chocolate, I'd take you up on being a judge. I'm going to turn it on. My cookies have no chocolate. Okay, so you won. All right, you won. I'm sorry. I've declared him the winner.

[01:05:42] I am going to turn it over to my vice chair now for the remote public comment time. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Madden, do we have any folks on the line for this afternoon? There's no one at this time. Thank you, Ms. Vann. Back to you, Madam Chair.

[01:06:00] All right. Thank you so very much for that. We are now going to move on to our public hearings. And I am going to open it up. We don't, hold on. It looks like, oh, you know what?

[01:06:16] I made a mistake. I do apologize. Before I open up, we did have one person out of the county who is sign of a speak for public comment time. Omar, I don't see, no, okay, not here. All righty, then moving on to public hearing.

[01:06:34] I am going to open the public hearing for item 7A through 7G. I have one person who has signed up, it looks like, Dr. Jack Kamujan.

[01:06:54] Again, you have three minutes to speak. Unless you're in your organization, please state your name and where you generally reside. Good evening, Madam Chairman, members of the board. Jack Krems, your president of LOCA. I'd like five minutes, not that I'll use all the time.

[01:07:12] First, I just wanted to wish you all well for the holidays, Christmas, Kwanzaa, and Hanukkah, New Year's. LOCA takes a break right before Thanksgiving for the Civic Association folks to have family time, and we'll reconvene in January, our monthly meetings.

[01:07:37] But I wanted to speak to item G, 7G, Bank of America signage. I provided a letter that was written to Bank of America representative, the zoning specialist for site enhancement services, back in November of last year of 23.

[01:08:02] We met over a year ago in October, Loka Pelt, to review the case of roof signage on the Bank of America building. That was a compliance issue at the time, and we were very comfortable with working with the applicant.

[01:08:24] I understand Mr. Venegas was handling the latest nuances on that, But we wanted to let you know we support the opportunity for the bank having the roof signage. You were very nice to work with, and there was a lot of back and forth with the county on it.

[01:08:40] And we were very comfortable with having the roof signage. And thank you very much. Thank you, Dr. Jack. That's the only person I think we had signed up to speak on the public hearings. If there's anyone else in chambers who would like to speak, please come forward now.

[01:08:57] Otherwise, we'll check for online folks. And it doesn't look like there's anyone online. So I will be hereby closing the public hearings. Before I entertain a motion, does anyone on the dais have any questions for staff? All right. Hearing none, I would like to entertain a motion of 7A through 7G.

[01:09:19] So moved, Mr. Chairman. Second. Right. It's been moved and properly seconded. Thank you. Any comments or discussion? So as we're aware. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. Just a note in passing with respect to 7B, this is getting to be a relatively frequent thing, doing administrative denials, because one person wrote a letter, and in reading the letter, I don't know how much is actually addressing the application or the use.

[01:09:52] it seems to me it's a neighbor versus neighbor squabble, and I don't know that we should be issuing administrative denials based on personality conflicts between neighbors. There's a lot of he said, she said, and quite frankly some accusations that I wouldn't put in writing, but I think we need to look at that when we start looking at the zoning ordinance rewrite since it's contained within the code. Thank you. Supervisor Franklin. Yeah, just want to actually point out item 7F.

[01:10:27] which is tommy's express car wash and pizza in the woodbridge magisterial district i do want to point out to residents that may be watching i was vehemently against an additional auto usage unless i could have come with a commercial component and so we really pushed for an innovative solution here and they were able to come up with one including a dining option because because I made the point that we can't just have all auto uses up and down Route 1.

[01:10:59] We can't just have all residential in the neighborhoods. We need things for our residents to actually do on Route 1 as well. So if we want a car wash, I need something else that comes with it, and they were able to provide that. So I just want to thank the applicant for becoming innovative.

[01:11:18] I also want to thank county staff, because I think we were all, you know, everyone was like, I don't know if we can actually fit all of this in one parcel, but we figured out how to make it work because that's the only way I was going to support it so I just want to thank everyone involved in this and thank you to the the developers and the land owners for working on this project this is a parcel that needs to desperately be revitalized but just because it needs to be revitalized we can't just put anything there so thank you for being creative and thank you for coming to the table with exactly what I asked for so thank you

[01:11:52] supervisor bailey thank you madam chair uh bob i agree with you my my my my okay i agree with you we have to be uh very diplomatic and strategic when we both in hand when we're talking about uh denial of projects for minor reasons so and some of them are major but i for 7b i just want to thank the Gonzales family and the HOA organization for coming together because there was a letter that was written and it didn't have to be controversial. It didn't have to

[01:12:31] be disagreeable. They came together and made a decision. And that's important in our communities when we do that. We have a case that's coming up soon. It's the same thing. And I think when we work together for the good of the community and have differences but still can come together that makes a difference and so i want to congratulate them for doing that being good neighbors uh providing a service but also protecting the community and so of course i'm going to support it but i just want to highlight that and to say to bob you know we're growing thank you supervisor gordy thank you madam chair i just wanted to highlight item 7c boss ford

[01:13:11] road crossing um this is a um a small family-owned business that is expanding it here in prince William County, Chima Transportation, LLC. Thank you for allowing Prince William County to be your home and look forward to your business succeeding here. It's in a great location, being a transportation. It's right off 66 with quick and easy access, and given the issues and challenges that we've had related to truck parking, they are actually serving to help solve some of our

[01:13:45] challenge. So really appreciate them. And then also the Wellington Road property is a storage unit, which is taking an underutilized parcel and is going to convert that into self-storage and appreciate the cleaning up and making the Wellington Road corridor look a little better over there. And just for clarity on the Wellington Glen Bay, that is simply to remove some roads that will no longer be needed there is a by right data center construction going in on that site

[01:14:20] and so what this does is just simply removes the roads that will be occupied by a building so no longer needed so thank you madam chair all right thank you so much i don't see any other speakers in queue so let's go ahead and take a vote vote unanimous all right thank you so much We are now on to agenda item number 8, county executive time.

[01:14:49] Thank you very much, Madam Chair, members of the board. I am going to invite up Michelle Attried, our CFO, to introduce Cherry Beckford and talk to the ACFER. But before I do, I want to go over a few just really quick directives that were issued and have been closed and or were provided updates since we met last.

[01:15:14] One staff was directed to provide recommendations for amendments to the county's tax relief for the elderly and disabled program to address net worth and proration of tax relief. This directive was assigned to the finance department and the county attorney's office.

[01:15:32] I will say that last week I provided an update to the board on several directives related to economic development and tourism, one around agro-business and agro-tourism in the county, another around amendments to the list of targeted industries.

[01:15:48] We also provided an update on the comprehensive plan for development of recreation and historic tourism, text for agro-tourism and arts overlay district, and we are also providing or have provided an update on the exploration and creation of a revolving loan fund and revitalization in Prince William County.

[01:16:13] With that said, Madam Chair, unless there are any questions, I want to ask Michelle Atry to come up and introduce Cherry Beckford. Does anyone have any questions? All right, I don't see it, so let's proceed. Thank you. Hi, good afternoon, Madam Chair, members of the board.

[01:16:29] Each year we bring before you our external auditors to bring the results of our financial statement audit. It's a requirement of the Code of Virginia that they make a presentation to you in a public setting. What's exciting about this time is we are just a day, two or three away from actual issuance, where last year it was after the first of the year.

[01:16:49] This year we've made much more significant progress in our staffing, in our process, and that's largely due. I'd like to thank publicly our Financial Reporting and Control Division, led by Terry Witt, sitting back here for all of their efforts this year. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Scott Anderson so he can give his presentation.

[01:17:07] Thank you for having me here today. My name is Scott Anderson, representing Cherry Becker, the auditor for both Prince William County and Prince William County Schools, which are two different audits, although consolidated into one report.

[01:17:30] We did provide a more detailed presentation to your audit committee earlier today. I will be a little bit more brief, and the purpose of this audit and presentation is to communicate to you the things that our professional standards believe are most important for those in charge of the government for those in in a governance role just to briefly highlight our team as i mentioned we audit both the county and the schools and there are two different teams

[01:18:01] i oversee both teams and this also highlights our quality control with the second partner reviewer and our firm's technical director all having a role in in your audit our audit team was also led by me with a different manager and different senior, which allows us to perform both audits at the same time in order to get them done more effectively.

[01:18:27] Now, we put this slide deck together a couple of weeks ago prior to our ability to conclude on the audit, and so this is really more of a placeholder at the time we were intending to issue by December 15th, which, yes, was pointed out to us as a Sunday.

[01:18:46] The 15th is the deadline in the Commonwealth of Virginia for issuing reports for state and local governments. And so that was our target date. We do intend and we think we are on track to issue our report on the county this Friday.

[01:19:03] The schools we had projected to issue today, and we actually issued our report on the school's financial statements last Friday. We anticipate for the county that we will issue an unmodified opinion on your financial statements. The schools, we did issue an unmodified opinion.

[01:19:22] An unmodified opinion means that we believe your financial statements are fairly stated, that a third-party user of your financial statements can rely on the information they're in. I will just say as well that an annual comprehensive financial report is a very large 300-page document.

[01:19:40] There's a lot of information in there. There is a lot of work that goes into putting together a financial report of that size. I review a lot of financial reports during the year. The financial report put together by your finance team is very high quality, even the first draft that we receive, and you should be proud of your finance team and the work that they do.

[01:20:03] Along with our audit opinion, which is the first deliverable you see within the financial report, we also issue a report in accordance with Yellow Book or in accordance with government auditing standards. That report describes our scope of testing. This slide summarizes what that report will talk about. It talks about how we do consider the county's internal controls over financial reporting and over compliance with laws, rules, regulations, and so forth. It does not express an opinion on your internal controls, rather just explains that we consider them in

[01:20:40] designing our procedures. Nevertheless, if we do identify a control deficiency, that report will specify what that deficiency is. The report that we intend to issue for the county will identify one control deficiency, which we consider to be a significant deficiency. This slide summarizes the different levels of control deficiencies that we would issue in that report.

[01:21:08] A material weakness is a deficiency in internal control such that there is a reasonable possibility that a material misstatement in the financial statements will not be prevented, detected, or corrected. A significant deficiency is a deficiency that is not quite as severe as that, yet important enough to merit attention by your audit committee.

[01:21:30] We, as I said, identified one deficiency in internal control that we determined to be significant deficiency, and that's related to an audit adjustment. anytime an adjusting journal entry is identified by us your auditors then it does race to the level of a controlled efficiency these next few slides highlight the qualitative aspects of accounting practices this plays a role in our audit the first is management's responsibilities for the selection and use of accounting policies note one of your financial statements will have a summary of your

[01:22:10] accounting policies many accounting policies are dictated by by accounting standards that you must follow many however are also elections that are made by your finance staff we do review those when we perform our audit and review your financial statements there were no new accounting policies that were adopted during the year as part of our audit we evaluate the county's identification and disclosure of related party relationships and transactions and during the year we did not note

[01:22:45] any related party transactions or relationships that had not already been disclosed to us. We noted no transactions entered into by the county during the year for which there was a lack of authoritative guidance or consensus. All significant transactions have been recognized in the financial statements in the proper period. Financial statements contain significant accounting estimates. Estimates are those that are are based off of reasonable criteria, assumptions,

[01:23:20] and actual results could differ. And so we pay a lot of attention to those estimates to make sure that they are soundly based. Here we've identified some of the estimates that we pay particular focus to. Allowance for doubtful accounts and taxes receivable, useful life of capital assets. There are significant estimates that go into the the determination of the pension and OPEB liabilities.

[01:23:48] There are estimates that determine the accrual for self-insurance and health benefit liabilities. There are estimates that go into the landfill closure and post-closure obligations. Estimates related to the pollution remediation liabilities. Estimates related to the fair value of investments.

[01:24:08] And then the estimates that go into the valuation of lease and subscription liabilities and the related right to use assets. So we evaluated all the key factors and assumptions used to develop these estimates and determining that they are reasonable in relation to the financial statements taken as a whole.

[01:24:28] We spent a lot of time reviewing your financial statements, and we believe that the financial statement disclosures are neutral, consistent, and clear. One of the important parts of our audit report is at the very top where it says Report of Independent Auditor.

[01:24:46] It is important that it's understood that we are independent in fact and appearance. as part of maintaining that independence we do provide or disclose to you all non-attest services that we provide so services that we provide that are not related to the audit we have two services that we provide the county which is we assist in the completion and the submission of the data collection form related to your grant funding we also assist in the completing of the hud react filing which is filed once a year as part of being able to provide those services and maintain

[01:25:24] independence the county is responsible for identifying an individual who can oversee those services and take ownership for the services that we provide the last couple of items is just to summarize how the audit went the audit was was quite smooth the fact that we are speaking today and finishing up this week means we are three months ahead of where we were last year your finance staff is readily available. They are transparent. When we ask for access to information

[01:26:00] or to someone within the county, it is readily given to us. No disagreements with management, neither were there any consultations with anyone outside of our engagement team. As part of our audit evidence, we do rely on certain management representations, which is in the form of a letter that we will receive from management prior to issuing our report.

[01:26:28] And as far as we understand, management did not consult with anybody outside of the county or audit team related to accounting or audit matters. There were no other issues identified as part of our audit, and there are no events or conditions noted that indicate there is substantial doubt about the county's ability to continue as a going concern within your financial report there are

[01:27:01] sections that we place we provide little to no assurance on required supplementary information includes management's discussion and analysis and certain data that has a trend a 10-year 10-year trend data for example where we are not able to audit and express an opinion so we do not express an opinion on the required supplementary information. Neither do we express an opinion on your statistical section for the very reason there's non-financial measures in there and there is 10-year trend data that does not allow us to express an opinion. We do express what we call an

[01:27:40] in-relation-to-opinion to your supplementary information, which is the more detailed schedules that support your statement of activities and statement of net position and governmental fund statements this last slide is just to highlight some of the accounting changes that are upcoming in the next few years that your accounting staff will be required to implement and we as your auditors are also a resource to to assist in understanding and learning what the requirements of that guidance is and with that i'll open it up to any questions that you might have regarding the

[01:28:17] audit all right thank you so very much supervisor vega thank you madam chair just one quick question on slide six you talk about the um inherent limitations and internal control and my question is um is there a solution to address these uh limitations it says um because of an i think i'm pronouncing that word for inherent inherent limitations and internal control including the

[01:28:49] possibility of management override of controls miss um misstatements due to error or fraud may occur and not be detected by such control so my question is do we have any proposed solutions to address these limitations it's not specific to the county okay this is this is very generic language that is put out by auditing standards and so uh yeah that's why we don't express an opinion on the internal controls because got it all right thank you supervisor gordy so on the the last

[01:29:23] slide you talked about upcoming financial audit reporting changes um so in terms of the timing on this. At what point do you anticipate, you know, us having to be in compliance with these new controls or new requirements that are coming down? Sure. GASB 101 on compensated absences will be effective your next fiscal year. Okay. And your finance staff is all, knows all about it and knows some of the work that must be done in order to get ready for it. GASB 102 is a standard that will

[01:30:00] not require much impact unless you have a concentration or constraint that will result in severe financial stress. So for example, a government that cannot raise property tax revenue for more than 1% per year and something happens where now they need to raise, that's a constraint that they can't get past and it might cause financial stress. So that standard I don't expect to be very widely applicable.

[01:30:35] Only applicable when the sky is falling type of thing. GASB 103 is purely presentation in your financial report. I don't think it will cause much problem other than putting together your financial statements. GASB 104 is a classification, again, just a presentation issue on your financial statements.

[01:30:54] I did speak with your audit committee this morning about some of the projects that have not been issued that the GASB is considering that may impact, may require a lot of time and effort those are several years down the road okay so in terms of so most of it it's it's not like major system changes that we have to make it at least for three of these it's mostly just reporting it's not that's correct okay all right thank you all right do we have anyone else if not thank you so very much for your presentation thank you very

[01:31:32] much scott and madam chair if i may i just really want to and scott said it uh really well i want to acknowledge Michelle Attrey and Terry Witt who was here in the chamber with us just for all the work that they did. This is a big deal that we are ahead of schedule. So all the work that they did to make this possible, thank them for their work. And with that, Madam Chair, I am done.

[01:31:55] Thank you so very much. We're going to go now to county attorney time. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. This afternoon in closed session, we will have consultation with legal counsel and briefings by staff members regarding legal advice and personnel discussion regarding the following pending internal audits on data governance, contract compliance, capital projects budgeting, and American Rescue Plan Act, calendar year 2024 subrecipient monitoring report interim, where discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the litigating posture, bargaining position, or negotiating strategy of the public body, and consultation with legal counsel and briefings by staff members pertaining

[01:32:34] to the discussion of the award of a public contract for internal audit involving expenditure of public funds, including possible interviews of bidders or offerors, and discussion of the terms or scope of such contract, where discussion in an open session would adversely affect the bargaining position, litigating posture, or negotiating strategy of the public body. These items are appropriate for closed session, pursuant to 2.2-3711A1, 8, and 29 of the Virginia Code.

[01:33:00] So moved, Madam Chair. Second. All right, let's take a vote. Vote unanimous. All right, thank you so much. We are now going to go on to agency time, and I'll turn head back over to our CXO. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I want to invite Calvin Farr, General Manager of Prince William Water, to the podium. And as we set up the slides, I just want

[01:33:35] to take a point of personal privilege and thank Calvin for all that he does. It's been a phenomenal partnership, and I just want to thank you for your leadership and all that you're doing at Prince William Water. Following our general manager, Dr. Grant will come up immediately following his presentation. Dr. Grant will do a sort of second part to the presentation and introduce himself. Madam Chair, Supervisor Vega, I want to second the county executive's remarks.

[01:34:07] Good to see you. Thank you, Mr. Shorter. I appreciate it. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the board uh thank you for the opportunity to brief you on the state of our drinking water uh i know there's been a lot of questions especially pfas coming in the national news so i feel it's about the time to brief you on the latest um like mr shorter said i'll give you a kind of a high level briefing um of the issues and also mitigation strategies uh dr grant will follow me in regards to more detail and the data.

[01:34:47] I also have Mr. Don Pannell with me. He's our deputy general manager over operations. Hopefully you won't stump me with really hard questions. If you do, I have Don here to help me. Appreciate it. So Prince William Water, also formerly known as the Service Authority, in case you didn't know, water and wastewater providers for folks here in the county, about 380,000 people.

[01:35:13] We do our part to help protect public health and the environment. We take that very seriously. As we go through this presentation and in the future, I'll talk a lot about source water or water sources for the county.

[01:35:30] And source water and source water protection, just think of it this way, source water is the body of water we use to treat for drinking water. So for Fairfax, I'm sorry, for us in Prince William County, we have Fairfax Water that provides our wholesale water. They take water from the Occoquan for the eastern portion of the county and Tome River for the western portion of the county. Also, City of Manassas, we get water from them from Lake Manassas, and also we have a well system in Bull Run. I want to say that at Prince

[01:36:07] William Water, we do not operate a water treatment plant. We do have a wastewater treatment plant, but not a water treatment plant. So I have to stress the importance of the protection of these bodies of water and also the watershed because if you think of it this way the more polluted that water is the more intense and more advanced treatment you'll need for drinking water purposes so i'm here uh really to talk about some challenges as an industry pfas salinity and water supply pfas is a growing concern in the in the on the national scale uh now we have federal mandates to uh remove

[01:36:45] PFAS out of our drinking water. Salinity has become a growing concern also. Not a mandated concern or any limit set but we're seeing salinity increase and then also water supply. I know I'll get questions about water supply as it relates to growth in the county if we have enough water supply and I'll answer that question as I go. So PFAS, what is that? I'll say PFAS to cover thousands and thousands of these different types of synthetic chemicals that do not break down.

[01:37:18] So you'll hear comments like PFOS, PFOA, there's a variety of them, but they are used in different products and they don't break down. And what happens is it gets into our systems in a variety of way. And then naturally they're saying it gets in through the drinking water, which is true, but there's other ways it does that too. So very serious stuff here, various health impacts in regards to the type of cancers, impacts to your immune system, a number of things. So how does it

[01:37:54] get into drinking water? But first I have to say, you know, the entire cycle and I'll go through it, but I've learned that 99% of humans have a level PFAS in them already. So PFAS is dating back to the 50s and they're in all kinds of products we use. For example, stain resistant carpets, anything that repels water.

[01:38:21] And you'll hear me say parts per trillion as a concentration, that is a measure. You'll hear quite a bit, parts per trillion is PPT. And what does that mean? Just think of one drop of water in 20 Olympic-sized pools, really small trace. So I'll say PPT because that is actually associated with the mandates we have to meet.

[01:38:42] Just to give you an idea how we're exposed besides drinking water, I talked about carpets. They could be up to 470,000 PPT lipsticks, mascaras, 200,000 to 1.6 million parts per trillion.

[01:39:02] Food packaging. Now, I'm guilty of getting cheeseburgers, fast food, and those wrappers. I didn't know, but I have a lot of PFAS in those wrappers. Upwards to 7 million to 900 million PPT food packaging.

[01:39:19] And also a concern, you know, Supervisor Angri could appreciate this major source of PFAS is HFFF firefighting foams. It has a good amount of PFAS in it. It just gave you some real surprising news, but a good direction as a country.

[01:39:39] A lot of these industries are moving towards not using these type of chemicals, just FYI. So if you have lipstick, don't necessarily stop using it. You know, just check it out. All right, okay. All right. So PFAS cycle, this is just a visual of how it gets into our systems.

[01:40:06] It's all over the place. You can see the top left corner is PFAS producing industry. They're making the chemicals. And there's three aspects, in my opinion, three sources. First is sources and users. Sources, who makes the PFAS, and then who's sending these chemicals to a variety of users.

[01:40:26] So you have these folks that make the chemicals, they treat their wastewater, discharge it to the bottom, which would be an example of source water, a river or groundwater. And that is a source, again, for drinking water to be treated. PFAS gets in that way, and they're not treating for PFAS.

[01:40:47] Also, AFFF has been sent to a variety of airports, military installations. It's very effective in putting those fuel fires out. Very effective, but also harmful. Also, the users, they're making household goods, like I said, food packaging.

[01:41:09] And all that is, at some point, getting into our groundwater and surface runoff into our source water. Second aspect is a pass-through. Pass-through meaning water and wastewater utilities. So the middle right there, the wastewater treatment plant, you could have a PFAS-producing industry that's not treating PFAS, sending that wastewater to the local wastewater plant.

[01:41:35] This wastewater plant is not treating for PFAS yet either, so it's passing through, discharging right into the source water. Also, you have agriculture, you have landfills that you have leachate from landfills, could run off or get into groundwater at some point, it will get into the source water.

[01:42:00] So the third aspect is human exposure. Again, drinking water, water treatment plants aren't necessarily treating for PFAS at the moment. There are some because they know that they've had a problem for a long time, but we have finally got the regulations. So when we drink that water, it has a level of PFAS in it.

[01:42:21] Also, the biosolids from our wastewater plants can be land-applied fertilizer. There is debate about that actually getting PFAS into our foods on top of the food packaging, and we're eating that and we're getting that into the system.

[01:42:38] And then also, as humans, we have human waste that goes to the wastewater plant with the PFAS we have in it. and it's not treated, and it's one real nasty cycle. So I'm saying all this because I want you to walk out thinking that PFAS is only in drinking water.

[01:42:54] It's literally everywhere, and really the goal is to really get it out of our environment. Now, what does that mean? How are we getting PFAS in our systems? The exposure is about 20 percent drinking water. The rest is 80 percent. Again, health risk, liver damage, a number of other things.

[01:43:13] This is really why the EPA is being real strict in regards to drinking water regulations. So we finally got the mandates in April of this year. Parts per trillion, going back to that PPT, the one drop in 20 Olympic-sized pools.

[01:43:33] So the first two PFAS compounds, PFOA, PFOS, those are the older legacy PFAS chemicals. You think about the cookware, the Teflons, all those type of companies from the 50s. Those are the original ones.

[01:43:49] The goal is zero, but the mandate is what's called a maximum contaminant level, MCL, is for PPT. And then these other ones are sort of newer, still older, but sort of newer in hopes to replace those original two.

[01:44:06] Those are also harmful, too. So those are set at 10 parts per trillion. So the mandate is April 4th, April 2024, we had five years to comply. By 2029, we have to be under those MCLs, and that's the goal.

[01:44:23] You'll see that we're required to start monitoring sampling by 2027, and we've already started doing that in 2021 just to get an idea of where this PFAS is coming from in our community. So what does that look like for us in Prince William? For the most part, we're compliant, our drinking water, except for drinking water drawn from the Occoquan.

[01:44:47] The last three quarters of sampling of drinking water from the Occoquan, you can see if the mandate was today, we would be, we would not be in compliance. So we're seeing concentrations of five PPT to eight PPT, and that will require technically more advanced treatment from Fairfax water. So here's, here's our cycle here in our watershed, Alcaquan watershed. There are known sites and there's some

[01:45:24] potential sites that are contributing PFAS to our environment. Typical airports, the AFFF for those fires they have to put out, the legacy military sites, even hazardous sites. Airports are a good source for PFAS. We have Dulles, we have Manassas Airport. We have the Upper Opaquan Service Authority. They are a wastewater treatment facility that services the western portion of our county. There is a level of PFAS coming from their discharge. They're not treating PFAS yet

[01:46:01] either. We are also sampling the waterways. There's hits of PFAS in all those waterways, bull run, cub run. And that's how it's getting in. We have industry, that legacy industry that PFAS is getting in groundwater, surface water, I mean runoff, stormwater runoff. And that's how we're getting these higher than the limits in regards to PFAS in the Occoquan. So the path forward to compliance, and that's the plan to be compliant by 2029, of course. Fairfax Water,

[01:46:42] from a treatment standpoint, they're looking at three technologies. Right now, they are leaning towards carbon absorption. And what is that? That's meaning, the way I compare that is to your normal filter you have in your house or in your refrigerator for drinking water. That has a level of carbon in it. And particles, when they go through that filter, it sticks to the carbon.

[01:47:06] So carbon absorption is a much larger scale at a treatment plant, but same concept. It looks favorable. They're doing pilot studies right now. They're looking at, as is, this is a cost, $389 million for design and construction over the next six years.

[01:47:25] We have five years to be compliant, and that's not a lot of time. So those dollars are very significant. even more significant is the ongoing O&M costs annually that would be a 20% increase to their O&M budget to maintain this technology. So there's ways to get it out of our drinking water.

[01:47:50] Very confident in that. But also it's going to take more than just treatment in my opinion. It's going to take controlling the source PFAS, removing PFAS in our environment. We're going to say one water quite a bit. When I brief you in the future, it'll be one water again. No, Dr. Grant will say one water's framework for collaboration and partner with other organizations, especially in our community, because we provide water and wastewater. But I talked about stormwater runoff, water quality regulations. It's going to take a joint effort. One water brings us all together

[01:48:27] to collaborate and integrate strategies to improve the situation. We cannot do this in silos, because it will just continue to have the same issue we have now. So our one water approach, we've started already.

[01:48:44] And thank you to Mr. Shorter, Wade Hugh, who's been at the table every time we ask about how we can better manage stormwater or get messaging out about PFAS and protection of the watershed. I have to say as an industry, water industry, I think it's unanimous across the board that we subscribe to the polluter pays principle.

[01:49:09] So if you're putting this in the environment, then you pay to remove it. That could be a variety of things, stop using it or paying for cleanup. You may hear on the national news about these class action lawsuits, and that's another way the employer pays.

[01:49:26] Because that $389 million I just quoted would have to be put on ratepayers, we want to get that burden off of ratepayers because it's not really their fault in regards to why we have to do more advanced treatment. Fairfax Water right now is working on draft legislation in the next session at General Assembly to get more teeth in regarding requiring pretreatment programs from industry that is using PFAS and discharging it, and that's favorable. I've met with a couple of supervisors over time,

[01:50:04] the ones most impacted, Supervisor Bodie and Supervisor Franklin, and I always get this question about what you can do to help. I didn't have the answer. I have the answer now. All right. So I'll have to say that I'm really happy to see your General Assembly agenda with PFAS and salinity are listed.

[01:50:26] So we're on the same page. Looking for continued legislation. Right now, we were successful last year with Delegate Roussall and Senator McPike regarding passing a bill to require DEQ to get more involved with source assessment.

[01:50:43] Who's putting PFAS in the system? I mean, in the environment, getting a little more teeth. But in my opinion, that's just not enough, because right now we can just identify sources of PFAS and they could just say, oh, that's good, we'll just keep doing it, right? We have no teeth for you to stop.

[01:51:00] So the legislation that I would really support, depending on how it's written, of course, but banning all non-essential use of PFAS for that. requiring industry to have these pretreatment programs with PFAS in their permits to give us more teeth, and then also any legislation that supports polluter pays.

[01:51:28] Because I can't emphasize enough, we have to stop PFAS at its source. Because as soon as it's produced, it's in our environment, it's in our air, it's in our water, it's in our food. The other challenge we have as a growing concern is salinity.

[01:51:44] Salinity, you'll hear salinity, you'll hear sodium, you'll hear salts. Currently, that's not being treated either in our water or wastewater plants. Reason being is it was never a concern until now. Where is it coming from?

[01:52:04] What is going on? Why is it happening? These are, I don't expect you to read all these dots, but just to give you an idea, these are uptrends of salinity in a variety of waterways across the country. So it's not necessarily unique to us here and Prince William. How is it getting in?

[01:52:22] Obviously, road salts and snows. VDOT puts down salts to make sure we melt ice and have a safe driving experience. But what happens there is snow melts, stormwater rains, washes it into the storm drain.

[01:52:40] At some point, it gets to the aqua-quan, increasing salinity in that waterway. Also, I think we're guilty of it, too, with our tough HOAs. It salts your sidewalks, your driveways. um that is also running off into storm drains and at some point getting to the ocaquan even our household use of detergents has a level uh goes to the wastewater plant again it's not treating it so that content that sodium is going into the waterway at some point even the foods we digest

[01:53:15] of course so the data is showing um there is uh this last bullet's not there but i'll explain it there's no regulatory limit uh but epa recommends certain things i want to keep the concentration under or less than 20 milligrams per liter for folks that are on the low sodium diets and then also threshold for taste in our drinking water of 200 milligrams per liter.

[01:53:49] That's when it's supposed to you could taste salt in the water, in the drinking water. We haven't gotten there yet and hopefully not. But our source water again, Potomac seems to be pretty steady under the 20 milligrams per liter, but also the Iaquaclan, you see it's an uptrend. Some years over 20, but there is an uptrend, and it's definitely a concern. It's getting there to be concerning. I've talked to Fairfax Water and UOSA, and also on our side, we have our wastewater

[01:54:23] plant too, is what we can do in regards to reducing salinity. Now, it can be solved in the drinking water with more and more advanced treatment versus osmosis, and it's able to do it that way too but the problem with reverse osmosis is it's really really expensive so I brought this to Mr. Shorter's attention a while back and we decided to form a task force Aquaman Reservoir Task Force that includes us the county staff and also Fairfax Water really trying to hone in on

[01:54:57] salt management the use of salt like I said us as citizens use it smarter you can scoop it back up You don't have to put the whole bag or bucket on the driveway, scoop it up, because it will run off. Also, we talk about source water protection as a task force, what we can do in regards to stormwater management, how we can help there.

[01:55:24] Then also, I am in the process of reaching out to VDOT to get an idea if they're doing anything differently to manage salt, and also public messaging. So I said all this about us with the salt usage. We have to get the word out.

[01:55:40] So we've partnered on messaging, and we do have a website or link towards salt management on our side. The question from you all, continued support and potential legislation, because we may have industries that actually are discharging high levels of sodium into the aqua coin.

[01:55:59] So I favor any local limits or mandates or anything like that to support. So water supply, sometimes I get wind of folks saying we don't have enough water in the county for growth, and that's not true.

[01:56:18] We take the demand from the comp plan, from MWCOG, population growth, typical water use, and we project out. We have dynamic hydraulic models we look at really to see if we can handle the additional growth.

[01:56:37] And if we don't, we identify capital needs. At that point, we put that in our master plan for capital needs that is needed to supply additional growth. And, of course, we're always looking at how that impacts our water supply.

[01:57:00] So this graph pretty much sums it up. But the gray top dashed line is our total maximum day demand. It basically says that this is the max we can go. And we're looking at the max demand on a daily basis, not the average, but the max, to see if we can handle it.

[01:57:20] That yellow dashed line is our 80% utilization of our total supply. As a trigger, trigger line, it tells us if our usage grows and gets to that point, we need to start planning for additional water supply. As you can see, the yellow line is starting to trend up, and you'll see this one big spike gets close to that yellow dash line.

[01:57:43] That's actually COVID pandemic where people are home most of the time, and you use more water when you're home, right? So that's kind of an outlier, but it's still going up. So we're trending up because we're getting more industry and commercial growth in the county and some residential.

[01:58:01] So we're starting to see the water usage go up. That green line is us projecting further out. So we're getting close to that trigger line in 2025. And who are we going to talk to about that Fairfax Water? It's like, well, we need to start planning for additional water supply because we're going to hit it around 2040.

[01:58:23] We're going to exceed what we have already. So we've already reached out to them, and we're working on additional water supply. which they have. So that grade dash line will increase, we'll have enough water supply, and they will draw from the Potomac for that additional water supply. So water supply is not necessarily a concern, but we're very careful with planning. I don't want you to walk out and thinking that we have plenty of water and it's all good. We do, but we're going to be careful with it, with the planning process. Also, new growth. I say this every time I give a presentation,

[01:59:01] growth pays for growth. If you want to develop here in the county, you have to pay for the infrastructure, whatever that is, and the additional storage. So it was a lot to digest, and that's my last slide. So I've opened up to any questions you may have. I'm actually going to take the first one, because you were saying that, you know, what we can do, but to cut back on PFAS, but what is the answer? Because I don't feel like you gave an answer, and we, you mentioned community messaging around PFAS. Can you give us some examples of messaging that you guys are using?

[01:59:35] Yeah, so the messaging, we have our FAQs on our website just educating you just like I did, the household usage, how it's getting into drinking water. Right now, there's no teeth for a manufacturer to stop using it and putting it into the environment.

[01:59:51] There's nothing. So right now, we could say when we look around for sources, hey, you have a lot of PFAS coming from there, and they could literally say, well, yeah, that's great, and keep it moving. Legislation, like there's one similar one in Maryland.

[02:00:07] Maryland I think passed no essential use of PFAS, stop all usage. That could help but only that legislation is only for this day forward. There's still legacy issues with PFAS. Depending on and to say non-essential use the AFFF definitely harmful but very effective you know for fighting fires. I would consider that as essential use with a lot of safety measures for the firefighters of

[02:00:40] course. So I can't say, hey, get it down to two PPT. You would just like you to just get it out of the environment completely if you can. Also, there's no mechanism for these industries to pay unless you do a class action lawsuit, which tends to be somewhat successful, but it's not necessarily going to recover all your costs you've had over time to, or even in the future cost to address that treatment so um it's going to take more than what we've seen before in regards to to that you

[02:01:16] know and i know it's not easy to to stop pfas at the industry level you know but that's kind of my general thought supervisor franklin supervisor bode thank you madam chair thank you mr far for the presentation i appreciate that this would have been a building conversations i know we've had for years so appreciate you coming back to talk about this um to sort of sharpen a little

[02:01:46] bit Madam Chair's question um could you go back to the slide um actually yeah keep going uh you missed one too far I think so that one yeah um so we have the task force we have partnerships we have sort of a framework to begin addressing it um are there any local things that we can do to begin looking at this right are there things that we can look at in terms of our dcsm as an

[02:02:24] example um i know uh one of your later slides i think slide 15 talks about supporting initial pfas sampling of wastewater and storm water from new developments likely to use pfas are there things that we can begin to start having conversations with the county exec and the planning staff and you know environmental services and the other uh agencies that look at our land use applications to begin having that be part of the conversation as they go through the land use process yes so partial answer is yes and i failed to say that it's already ongoing so i just talked

[02:02:58] about what we should do but fairfax water and us we're already doing it just in the early stages so we're already approaching some of these sources already to say i have this conversation about pfas and honestly in the community we're in i haven't we haven't heard a much pushback from anybody providing or putting PFAS in the environment.

[02:03:20] But we still haven't hashed out everything from a legislative standpoint that I'd say Supervisor Bowley really needs your support on this. But there's one, that Water Systems PFAS Liability Protection Act. I didn't want to go into a lot of detail on that, but that is related to an environmental law of CERCLA basically saying you're liable if you touch PFAS.

[02:03:43] And we're talking about treatment processes to remove PFAS, not destroy it. So if you remove it, then you've got to transport it somewhere. As soon as you transport it, it's yours, and you're liable for it. The water industry, we're all against that because we are, again, receivers of the PFAS, so that's been a big fight.

[02:04:03] New development, especially taking a look at the new industrial partners that come in the county, want to hone in on what they're discharging, and that may require some limit or zero limit of discharge to our wastewater system.

[02:04:23] So we're not quite there yet, but things are in motion. Sure. Appreciate that. And just so I could manage to follow up, I appreciate that because as you sort of highlight, and I appreciate how you sort of frame this, it's not just one level that needs to look at this. Feds have a part to play, like you mentioned, EPA, and that piece of legislation you talked to, I believe, is in Congress or so.

[02:04:45] Yes, yes. Yeah, the water system PFAS, I believe, is a congressional one. Like you said, the state plays a role as well. I know there's different delegates that have different pieces of legislation. They go through that every year. I know they're trying to get more involved. But then us, like I said, I think that ultimately, you know, at some point there's going to need to be sort of a meeting of the minds where we start lining up all these pieces of legislation federally and statewide.

[02:05:10] And then to us, again, to my question, you know, have a list of recommendations come forth from our staff on things we can do to proactively, like I said, embed in our land use processes. So frankly, the development community knows that we care about and they need to start testing for it at the outset. And two, that's an expectation of if you want to get, you know, our subject matter experts on counties have to sign off on these things.

[02:05:31] They have to care about PFAS and salinity and these things that these developments could, just by either the construction process or frankly, once it's up and running development, especially commercial, also residential, is doing to the environment over time. And so that needs to be part of our consideration.

[02:05:47] Absolutely. Appreciate it. Thank you. Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to bounce around a little bit here. With respect to both the salinity and the PFAS, you cite one of the main sources as industrial discharge.

[02:06:07] In fact, it's listed first on most of the stuff. So I'm curious, what do we do about that industrial discharge? And the reason I note that is I just read the article, I believe it was this morning, about Micron increasing its chip production as part of a deal with the Department of Commerce.

[02:06:25] Do we have anything in place, even though it's essentially a Manassas issue and we don't get to do much about it except water, is there anything we can do to address additional PFAS or additional salinity discharge from their ramping up, I'm assuming changing their production model?

[02:06:45] Yes, absolutely. So say you start with sodium, they put a great deal of sodium in the waterway, but they've reduced, we approached them years back, And I think they reduced it by 100 milligrams per liter, 200 milligrams per liter.

[02:07:01] So we can go back to them and try to negotiate even more reduction of that sodium. We're fortunate in this region to, when we work with Micron, they actually want to work with us. It's not one of those, we're not going to help you out.

[02:07:17] They are partners in the community. So PFAS, especially PFOA from Micron, high levels of PFAS. So I'm not going to say it's going to be easy for people to stop using PFAS because there is a process of whatever they're doing that requires it.

[02:07:35] And to just shut it off immediately may not be practical from their operations. So I'm hearing that they are for reduction of the PFAS or PFOA, but they're looking for alternatives. And they are working with us as partners.

[02:07:51] Second part of that is you say you've got to be MCL compliant by 2029. What if you're not? Good question. Typically what happens is there will be a consent order associated with additional timelines.

[02:08:08] It could be stipulated penalties and things of that nature. Dealing with regulators in Virginia, my career, it's not a promise, but my experience is a good faith is you're putting in effort. It may be a timeline you may miss by six months.

[02:08:27] It's not going to really get you too bad about it. But if you're in total denial and you're not pushing forward, And that's when you really get in trouble. Also, keep in mind, too, I didn't throw this part in there with the new administration. Some of these things are subject to change. Timelines, even these limits, which is really unknown.

[02:08:48] But EPA's new administrator, he's shown history to focus on removal of PFAS where he was a senator. Let's jump to the water supply. i.e. you're asserting that at present you don't have a problem or a concern based on typical growth curves from MCOC. I'm suggesting, I'm asserting that their growth determinations or their growth projections do not include the explosive growth and data center proliferation

[02:09:21] in this area and the seemingly ever-changing model of cooling from water-based to non-water-based, And it seems like they're going back to the water-based cooling systems in many instances.

[02:09:41] And I'm seeing in those plans, in the blueprints that they deliver in their calculations for water usage, water use is measured in the tens of millions of gallons. Are you guys made aware of those at the time that they are applied, applications made to the county?

[02:10:00] Or do you just find out after the fact? Yeah, we're, yeah, kind of, sort of, after the fact. I wouldn't disagree with you on, we've got to wait and see. It's a bit uncomfortable that way, but I'm hearing that there's a new requirement to be more forthcoming with water usage.

[02:10:19] That helps us out quite a bit. Okay. Which leads to the last question. If, indeed, infrastructure and additional operational costs are paid for by the new user, and I would suggest that there is a lot of new infrastructure being built for a particular industry.

[02:10:39] If it is indeed the case that they're supposed to pay for it, then how do you explain the 29% rate increase that you just advertised? Well, that's a whole other. That's for existing infrastructure. So those are 999 increases, nothing to do with growth.

[02:10:58] It has all to do with replacement of existing and rehabilitation of existing infrastructure. What happened was we executed over 80% execution rate, really good, of things we had to get done. As you know, we had inflation.

[02:11:17] We actually had materials go up 50% cost. So Brace Lee took away our replacement fund. So those increases are to fund the replacement fund, not for new growth or data centers or new water supply.

[02:11:35] Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, sir, for being here this afternoon. Really appreciate your presentation. I like your statement when you say growth pays for growth.

[02:11:51] And with our county growing as it is, and you also said that we are kind of ahead of the power curve in this, and we need to make adjustments now. So my question is, I have two.

[02:12:09] One is our water supply currently comes from Fairfax and the Occoquan Reservoir and Potomac River. So is there any opportunity for one water to be with the Potomac Water Supply?

[02:12:25] Is that anywhere in the cards as we go forward? Absolutely, absolutely. The reason why I didn't mention it is it's not a challenge right now in regards to these two items we're talking about, PFAS and salinity. But any partner, we already have formal partnerships with the Potomac from water supply, and it's a multi-state, as you know, with COG and these other folks for supply.

[02:12:47] So, yeah, it's technically a one-water approach there, too. That just didn't spotlight it. We're not seeing those issues with the Potomac and source water. Okay, and I appreciate you allowing me to be selfish for a minute. But the other question that I have for you is the salinity presentation that you gave is so key for us as well as PFAS.

[02:13:11] Now, is salinity, and I get them a little confused, is PFAS or is it salinity that is affecting our senior population more? Good question. Well, it depends on if your doctor says you've got to cut back on salt.

[02:13:30] Yeah, is that how it, that's the relationship? And then if the water gets too salty, of course that will impact you. It will not help you in regards to that sodium diet you need to be on. But I have to say that, you know, I'm not a residential filter salesperson.

[02:13:49] Yes. But there are ways to, those filters, the RO filters, they can get salt out also in your plumbing and your fixtures. But we're not there yet in regards to it being unhealthy. We're just seeing it trend up.

[02:14:06] At some point, we got to, the priority right now, honestly, is PFAS. Salinity is there. And there's techniques for PFAS that actually apply to salt reduction also. So it is a priority, just a close second to PFAS.

[02:14:23] Okay. But we're not going to wait until it gets to 200 where it tastes salty. And I appreciate that. I just ask because we have a, our population is aging, but very active aging. Okay, sorry. Not me and Bob.

[02:14:39] No. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Seasoned. Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you very much for the presentation, and thanks again for coming by a couple weeks ago and sharing with me the things that are going on and explaining particularly, and I appreciate the answer to Supervisor Weir's question related to rate increases, and I think that gets to the fact that we've got to be more diligent

[02:15:15] at maintenance over time so that we don't end up having these bow wave of costs that we then have to address and i think that's something you inherited and now are trying to address i really appreciate you establishing a new benchmark for the organization to try to address this going forward so we don't have these bow wave of costs to happen again so thank you for that in terms of the you talk about the Occoquan Reservoir Task Force but even as as Supervisor

[02:15:50] Weir pointed out we've got a major industry who is part not part of Prince William County it's in a different locality and so it's the task force looks like it's really focused on the end users of water but not necessarily the source point from where the from you know from where the water's coming. So how do we, you know, and we've got some of the creeks that run up into Falkier, some that run up into Loud, and some into other parts of Fairfax, and of course Manassas, Manassas Park. So how are we trying to engage broadly within the complete and the entire watershed

[02:16:23] to start looking at not just the treatment side of this, but how do we better align as a region on trying to reduce the problems from the source. So that One Water approach, at some point bringing in Micron as one of the partners of the One Water approach and other industries that are major contributors to these issues.

[02:16:49] So that's not final, what you just saw. That's the initial, I'd say, skeleton of it. But you're right to have these conversations with whoever is putting these things in our environment. EOSA is one facility that's discharging.

[02:17:07] They have to come to the table, too, and see what they can do on their side. So I wouldn't say it's the goal is not to have all of it on treatment. That's for sure, because I just quoted some numbers to you. And I'm sorry I forgot to tell you our part. So it's $389 total.

[02:17:24] We are their largest wholesale customer. We're on the hook for $72 million, which we did the numbers. We're looking at maybe $5 to $10 additional to a bill. So we're mindful of the affordability and rate increases and things of that nature.

[02:17:40] But getting back to the One Water approach, it's one of those we have to meet, and here we're doing well. Here, where are the gaps? And I was like, you know what, we need to bring these folks into this conversation. So it's an evolving thing, and I wish I had the answer and had all the agencies up there laid out for you and this is who's going to do what kind of thing, but we're not quite there yet.

[02:18:03] Well, you should have saw me last year. There was nothing. It was like, what do we do? was running around back and forth in the hall like okay so kind of have a framework now but uh we'll continue to evolve over time on that yeah yeah i mean when you think about the chesapeake bay and what the efforts have been uh taken to try to solve it we realize it's a watershed problem not you know trying to solve it in the bay is you're never going to solve it there you're going to have to solve it upstream and and so trying to look at it from you know working with other localities as they're doing their land use as they're trying to attract business and industry just recognizing the fact that you know you know being downstream from those localities you know

[02:18:43] how do we have that level of influence and so i think that's part of a broader conversation that we're going to have absolutely we actually have a policy in place aqua quantum policy has been around for decades it still applies and like you say it's not just prince william county fairfax is others uh fairfax water is having conversations with all these other folks other jurisdictions that I haven't mentioned, but they're tasked with watershed protection, Dock Point Watershed Protection. So you're absolutely right. All these folks are involved.

[02:19:13] And in terms of water quantity, we talk about recognizing that, you know, if something does happen, you know, what's our alternative source? You know, other than just simply treatment. And And so what do you see are some potential new sources of water within the area in case there is an issue where we need to either expand capacity or move away from a certain source because of pollutants that we can't manage?

[02:19:43] Yeah, so one thing I do like with some of these newer industry folks, they are actually reusing some of this water and they're being a bit more efficient, but they have to actually tap into our water at some point. So we have explored water reuse, Purple Pipe, they could use that as their source.

[02:20:06] We find right now, we can continue to explore it, we find right now that we are a water-rich region. Compared to these folks that are out west coast that are getting three inches of rain in a year, and you have to actually reuse it, you have no choice.

[02:20:21] So we are all for the newer ways to provide water, even the on-site reuse of wastewater. We definitely promote that. We haven't seen any proposals from any, let's say, data center or industry that wants to do that.

[02:20:39] The request usually is potable water. But like I said, we have ample water. But be careful, and based on your demand and what you're asking for, we have to really question it, like, yeah, can you consider some water reuse?

[02:20:54] Because we don't want to give you 50 million gallons a day for one facility. That wouldn't be practical. So to answer your question, we're for any other sources of water that they can use. And again, they would have to, and these may require facilities on their part that they have to construct and propose to us.

[02:21:13] Thank you. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. Real quick, during the past two state health board meetings that we've had, we've been briefed on some localities having water crises and not having an emergency management plan in place.

[02:21:29] and some folks in these areas have been left without water for up to a week. Do we have such a plan in place? And if so, how can we familiarize ourselves with it, you know, so that we can be ready if something similar were to happen here in Prince William?

[02:21:45] So, yes, the question is yes, and we can get that to you. We have a plan. We have interconnects with other jurisdictions. We can turn valves to get additional water. We're part of COG in regards to the Warn system. needing assistance like that.

[02:22:03] So the question is, yes, we have backup plans for that. We have real-time looks at our water system. We have storage in our water system already. In case something like that happens, if you think about a water main break and water is out for a while, we rely on storage for that customer, and then we produce more water and get more water from Fairfax.

[02:22:26] So, yes, I'm very confident. Actually, knock on wood, but very confident in potential, you know, response like that. We're more than prepared for that. All right, doesn't look like we have any other speakers, so thank you so very much.

[02:22:46] And we are ready for the part two. Good afternoon.

[02:23:02] I thought Calvin set me up very nicely. My name is Stanley Grant. I'm a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Virginia Tech and director of the Occoquan Watershed Monitoring Lab, which is located more or less down the street here.

[02:23:34] So here's an outline for my talk. I promised that I would prepare a script so I wouldn't be here for three hours talking, so a little bit more to the point. So for those not familiar with the lab, I want to begin by describing the laboratory I direct here in Manassas, the Virginia Tech's Occoquan Watershed Monitoring Lab.

[02:24:00] And then I want to provide a high-level overview of the Occoquan Reservoir and why we consider it a, quote-unquote, one-water system. Next, I will describe what I believe to be the defining challenge for water quality in the reservoir, that is, rapid growth of population and impervious surfaces in the watershed and its impact on water quality trends and streams training to the reservoir.

[02:24:22] And then I will end with a quick overview of several community-centered research initiatives the lab is leading, all aimed at ensuring the reservoir's long-term viability as a drinking water resource. Next slide. So let's begin with a quick overview of Virginia Tech's OWML, or Occoquan Watershed Monitoring Lab.

[02:24:45] The Occoquan Watershed Monitoring Laboratory, or OWML, is an innovative partnership between Virginia Tech's Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality, Fairfax Water, and other water supply, public water supply, water reclamation agencies, city and county governments, and private consulting firms in northern Virginia.

[02:25:05] Our mission is to develop and test cutting-edge transdisciplinary solutions to emerging water quality challenges using the Occoquan Reservoir in northern Virginia as our experimental testbed. Probably the most pertinent fact to the discussion today is that the lab has been collecting water quality data in the reservoir and its tributaries for nearly 50 years. This historical data provides a wealth of information upon which to build informed policy decisions about the watershed's future, really pertaining to many of the questions that I heard you ask after Calvin's talk. Next slide. So let's talk about why the reservoir in its watershed is called

[02:25:44] a one-water system. Next slide. The Occoquan Reservoir is a drinking water supply, as you know, for up to one million people in northern Virginia. It provides raw water for Fairfax Water's Griffith Drinking Water Treatment Plant, which is the blue dot in the lower right corner of the map there.

[02:26:01] This reservoir is one of the first and oldest one-water systems in the United States, by which mean the reservoir receives inflow from stream flow and urban runoff from its two major tributaries, that is the Occoquan River and Bull Run, shown there in the middle of the map, and treated sewage from the Upper Occoquan Service Authority, or UOSA for short, which is indicated by the blue dot in the middle of the map. Next slide. Stream flow and urban runoff enter the reservoir from the two main tributaries, the Bull Run and Occoquan River. The two sub-watersheds for these streams are shown here in dark and light brown, respectively.

[02:26:39] Next slide. The water from these two tributaries, which are shown as large yellow arrows, and smaller tributaries located around the reservoir, the smaller yellow arrows, constitute the bulk of water entering the reservoir on an annual basis.

[02:26:55] Next slide. Layered on top of this stream hydrology is a large drinking water system for nearly two million people. The drinking water comes from two major water treatment plants, which are the blue dots on this map. slide. The Corbelous drinking water treatment plant sources its raw water from the Potomac River and provides drinking water for homes and businesses in the northern and central portion of the watershed as indicated by the green area there in the map. The Griffith drinking water treatment plant sources its raw water from the Occoquan Reservoir and provides drinking water for homes and businesses to the south and east portions of the map for that orange area. Next

[02:27:34] slide. The drinking water from Corbelous flows through homes and businesses and ultimately down the drain into the sewage collection network that drains to the Upper Occoquan Service Authority, UOSA, which is shown by the red boundary there. Next slide. The sewage then flows through an underground pipe network, the sewage collection system, to the UOSA treatment plant in Centerville, which is the yellow dot, big yellow dot there. Next slide. That sewage undergoes extensive treatment, and the resulting reclaimed water is discharged to Bull Run, where it mixes with

[02:28:12] stream flow and urban runoff and ultimately flows to the reservoir. Next slide. Here is a summary of the inflows to the reservoir from various sources, including Bull Run, Occoquan River, UOSA, precipitation, and other sources including and monitored streams around the reservoir like Hoos Run and groundwater. Note that on an annual basis, the Occoquan River at 48 percent and Bull Run at 25 percent are the largest contributors of water to the reservoir, followed by other sources like groundwater at 20% and reclaimed water from UOSA at 6%. Precipitation on the reservoir surface

[02:28:50] constitutes a small fraction of the annual inflow around 1%. So most of the flow that is coming into the reservoir comes from the surrounding watersheds and to a lesser extent from UOSA's reclaimed water. Next slide. Here is a summary of the outflows from the reservoir. Fairfax Water's Griffith Water Treatment Plan accounts currently for about 12% annually of the outflow, but by far most of the outflows through the dam spillway and ultimately back to the Potomac River.

[02:29:21] Evaporation off the reservoir is relatively minor at around 1%. Next slide. Now I want to talk about what I see as the defining challenge to reservoir water quality, population growth, and imperviousness growth in the watershed. Next slide. The Ococon watershed is home to 574,000 people, which as of 2020 is a six-fold increase since the 1970s, and that number is projected to potentially reach 750,000 people by 2040. By comparison, just to kind of benchmark that, the initial recommendations

[02:29:57] when the Occoquan policy was formed back in the 70s to safeguard the reservoir's water quality called for restricting population in the watershed to 100,000 people. So we're close to almost, or we're approaching 10 times that number. Another challenge for managing water quality in the reservoir is that, as was indicated here a moment ago, the watershed encompasses six different political jurisdictions, including Prince William County, which accounts for 40% of the watershed area, Fauquier County for 36% of the area, Fairfax County, 17% of the area,

[02:30:34] Loudoun County, 5% of the area, City of Manassas, 2% of the area, and the City of Manassas Park, 0.4% of the area. So there's no one political jurisdiction who can basically wave a wand and and cause everything to happen in the watershed all at once.

[02:30:51] To give you a sense of how population has grown in the watershed, in the next couple of slides I will present how the population density in the watershed has changed over time, where each of the color polygons in this map represent what's called a transportation analysis zone, or TAS.

[02:31:08] So in 2005, this is what the population density across the watershed looked like for those different TASs, where light green are more rural areas and dark green are more densely populated urban areas. Next slide. As we move forward to 2020, you can see the population density spreading out, especially in the central and northern portions of the watershed.

[02:31:29] And you might move back and forth just a couple times to animate that so that it's clear. Oh, sorry. We seem to be advancing forward, not backwards.

[02:31:53] Yeah, maybe I can do it. Thank you. Yeah, so 2005, 2020. So you can see that density spreading out in the central core and in the north.

[02:32:10] And then the great thing about the TAS is they essentially are planning documents, and so we have estimates for population out to 2035. And so if we project what's going to happen in 2035, we can see it spreading even further. So basically just kind of like an amoeba growing in the central and northern portions of the watershed especially.

[02:32:31] Thank you. So next slide. This population growth is a concern because the way the watershed is currently growing, and I want to be careful about what I say here, there is a strong correlation between population density and the percent of the watershed covered in impervious surfaces, such as roads, parking lots, and rooftops.

[02:32:55] In particular, we note that there's a nonlinear relationship or what we might call tipping point for imperviousness between about 100 and 1,000 people per square mile, where under current growth policies, the imperviousness increases rapidly to 100%. I want you to kind of digest that.

[02:33:12] So this is the data from the watershed itself, the Occoquan watershed. It's not out of a textbook. This is actually from the watershed, showing essentially how population growth or population density correlates with that impervious surface in the watershed. It is important to stress that population growth can be managed, for example, using smart growth strategies in a way that would reduce the amount of imperviousness created with population growth.

[02:33:37] This graph just illustrates what we currently have, business-as-usual growth practices in the Occoquan watershed and how that results in increased imperviousness. Next slide. Next, we will explore what those population growth and impervious trends imply for stream and reservoir water quality.

[02:33:58] Next slide. For the past 50 years, the lab has been monitoring water quality at a set of stream stations in the Occoquan watershed. These streams drain very different subwatersheds ranging from highly rural to more urban. Imperviousness is illustrated here with color, where the color indicates when the imperviousness was added.

[02:34:18] For example, our stream station ST70 shown here drains a relatively rural area in Falk here and Prince William counties. That's the green boundary there, with an average impervious area of just 1.2%. Stream station ST25, another OWML station, drains a relatively rural area in Fauquier County with an average impervious area of 1.8%.

[02:34:42] Station ST60 drains a relatively rural area in Prince William and Loudoun Counties with an average impervious area of 2.8%. You can see we're just kind of working our way up that impervious fraction. Station ST10 drains the southwest portion of the watershed and has an average of 5.2% imperviousness.

[02:35:02] Next slide. ST30 drains an area upstream of Lake Manassas with an average of 7.1% imperviousness. Next slide. ST45 drains a portion of Prince William County and the cities of Manassas and Manassas Park with an average imperviousness of 18%.

[02:35:20] So we're really climbing to quite high numbers here. And then finally, Station ST50 on Cub Run drains portions of Fairfax County and Loudoun County with an average imperviousness of 30%. You can see Dulles Airport is kind of right at the upper boundary there of that watershed.

[02:35:37] Next slide. In this slide, I'm layering on the political jurisdictions onto the map that I just showed you, and you can see within Prince William County over the past 20 years, there's been significant increase in impervious cover north and south of Interstate 66 in Gainesville and surrounding communities.

[02:35:54] Next slide. Next, we look at how growth in population and imperviousness is translating to water qualities in the streams draining to the reservoir and the reservoir itself. Specifically, I've been asked to talk today about two types of pollutants you heard about, heard Calvin talk about, salt and the forever chemicals PFAS. Next slide. Let's start with salinity trends. What I'm showing here in this graph is stream salinity represented on the vertical axis of specific inductance

[02:36:30] measured at the seven stations operated by the lab over the past 10 years. So the same seven stations that I just showed you maps of. The main take home lesson is that stream salinity progressively increases as we move from left to right from low to high imperviousness or equivalently from low to high population density on the top axis. That is increasing impervious cover translates to more salts and streams due primarily to, as Calvin said, the wash off of de-icers and anti-icers that are applied to impervious surfaces in the winter. Next slide.

[02:37:05] What we find for this watershed is that threshold salinities, like the one shown in red here from one of the water quality managers in Fairfax County recommended this particular number, tend to be surpassed, that's the red line, tend to be surpassed when the imperviousness is greater than 3% or when the population density upstream is greater than 60 people per square mile, just as a kind of rule of thumb.

[02:37:32] We find a similar pattern when we look at sodium ion measurements in these streams over the past 10 years. So the previous slide was kind of bulk salinity, looking at stream-specific inductance. Here we're looking very specifically at sodium. Next slide.

[02:37:49] Here sodium ions are a concern, again, as Calvin pointed out, for water quality in the reservoir, both because of potential impacts on taste and also because sodium in drinking water can serve as a silent source of sodium, dietary sodium, which can be especially problematic for people on salt-restricted diets or elderly people. Next slide. And based on all of the monitoring data that we have today, flow and water quality data, here's a flow chart indicating or summarizing where sodium in the Occoquan reservoir is coming from on an annual basis. Note that 20% of the sodium in the reservoir is coming

[02:38:28] from reclaimed water, whereas you may recall from one of the earlier slides that only 6% of the water is coming from reclaimed water. That is, that reclaimed water is enriched in sodium. About 50% of the sodium in reclaimed water is from household sources. So if you want to know where that salt's coming from, look in the mirror. About half of that is dietary. So what we eat has salt.

[02:38:55] We excrete that ultimately, and it goes into the sewer system. While the other half is sodium-rich household products that ultimately go down the drain. And there's a real opportunity potentially for doing product switching, for example, to low-salt detergents. Next, we talk about PFAS.

[02:39:16] Specifically, I'm going to be focusing in on a particular PFAS compound, PFOA, which Calvin mentioned, which is showing up in concentrations in the finished drinking water from Griffith above the EPA's recent maximum contaminant level of four parts per trillion, or PPT.

[02:39:37] Next slide. Over the past year, under contract with Fairfax Water, the lab has been collecting samples throughout the watershed and analyzing them for PFAS by EPA Method 1633. Our monitoring approach includes both fixed sites where we sample every month and floating sites where we sample once, essentially where it's like a CSI.

[02:39:56] We're looking for potential sources in collaboration with Fairfax Water and the other jurisdictions. Here you can see in color the number of samples we've collected and analyzed for PFAS so far this year. The darker green circles correspond to fixed sites where we've sampled up to 11 times so far.

[02:40:15] The lab recently acquired the analytical equipment necessary to carry out these measurements, which are highly specialized, and the lab just hired a new faculty member, Professor Karen First, who is a leading expert in the topic area. So I think we'll have everything that we need in terms of both equipment and expertise. While these data are preliminary, what we're seeing is roughly consistent with the salinity story that I just told.

[02:40:43] That is, we're seeing higher PFOA concentrations in streams and portions of the watershed, particularly in the north, in Cub Run, where in previous cover and population densities are high. So if you want to first order the formula for how this works, population growth leads to more impervious cover, leads to higher salt concentrations in streams, and higher PFAS concentrations in streams.

[02:41:09] Next slide. Based on these data, here is a preliminary assessment of the sources of PFOA entering the Occoquan Reservoir. While both Bull Run and the Occoquan River are significant contributors at 22 and 31 percent, remember there's a lot of flow, so even very low concentrations of PFOA can result in a lot of mass. We're seeing that up to 39 percent or almost 40 percent of the PFOA mass entering the Occoquan Reservoir may be coming from UOSA's reclaimed water. Next slide. All of these data are serving

[02:41:46] as a starting point for a number of community-engaged initiatives aimed at developing equitable and cost-effective approaches for addressing water quality challenges in the Occoquan Reservoir both now and into the future. Next slide. The first one I would like to describe is funded with a planning grant from the National Science Foundation Civic Innovation Challenge Program. This is a two-stage program. The first stage, which is currently what we have at the lab, provides $75,000 for a planning grant to develop with the community a stage two pilot test for some cutting-edge technology, which in our case is an interactive water quality model for the

[02:42:25] reservoir that can be used to stimulate community discussions about the future of the system. And it helps, I think, to give you a little bit of context. So in the past, the way it would work is if there was a question about the reservoir and water quality in the reservoir, the lab or another consulting firm or some other entity would be commissioned to do a study, which for a fair amount of money and about a year later, you get an answer. You might have forgotten what the question was by the time you got the answer. The idea is that we're using cutting-edge technology to make that more or less instantaneous so you can get on a model on the website and start

[02:43:02] answering and asking, asking and answering your own questions in real time. So that's kind of the goal of this, this activity. In fact, next week we are running a set of four focus groups with different community organizations or individuals, including water utility managers and practitioners, Elected officials, in fact, you all should have received an invitation to participate, business interests, and environmental NGOs.

[02:43:27] This is all building to a proposal to the NSF, which will be due in February of 2025, for up to $1 million to pilot test the model in those four communities. We are hoping, through the focus group process, to ultimately receive a letter of support to the effect that, look, if you guys build this model for us, we'll actually use it.

[02:43:47] So that will help, obviously, demonstrate impact. Next slide. This is just a summary of the key criteria we need to satisfy in the pilot test proposal, including that the project has to be rapid. We can realistically implement, we have to be able to realistically implement the model in one year because this is a one-year pilot test, and it gives us the million dollars that has to be done in a year.

[02:44:11] It has to be local and co-created, which is what we're doing through the focus group process, and it has to be impactful. That is, this isn't a one-off that the community actually has. there's a chance that the community would actually adopt this, you know, and evolve it for kind of planning purposes going forward.

[02:44:31] Along similar lines, and you saw this on one of Calvin's slides perhaps, we just received word that a proposal we submitted was selected for funding by the Water Research Foundation. This project would also utilize the interactive model of the reservoir that I was just talking about that the lab has developed, specifically with the goal of identifying equitable and cost-effective solutions to meeting those EPA MCLs from PFAS we were talking about, while minimizing costs to ratepayers across the system.

[02:44:58] The participating counties and water utilities, including Prince William Water and Prince William County, are indicated on the slide here. And here's the basic idea. We'd like to investigate interventions across the watershed, including non-point source controls, pretreatment requirements in the sewer shed, as well as treatment upgrades at UOSA and Griffith, with the overall goal of meeting the EPA MCLs while minimizing the overall cost to the community, recognizing that we receive multiple bills for a homeowner, for example, from wastewater utility for wastewater services, for drinking water services, and so on.

[02:45:36] And so really what matters is minimizing the overall cost, not necessarily just sticking the problem to a single utility like Fairfax Water. Next slide. And here are my conclusions. Population and imperviousness are non-linearly correlated throughout the watershed, and specifically imperviousness increases rapidly for population densities greater than about 60 people per square mile. As imperviousness and population density increase, stream salinity also increases, as evidenced by trends in specific inductance, sodium ions, and chloride ions,

[02:46:15] so that I didn't show you that data here. Preliminary data suggests that the forever chemical PFOA is also higher in streams that drain densely populated areas. We also find that reclaimed water is a source of both salinity and PFOA in this one water system.

[02:46:32] And finally, that the Occoquan Watershed Monitoring Lab and its stakeholders are creating an interactive modeling tool to facilitate community-driven, equitable, and cost-effective approaches for sustainably managing water quality in the Occoquan Reservoir now and into the future. Thank you.

[02:46:47] All right. Thank you so very much for your presentation. I just want to see, we have Supervisor Franklin. Yeah, and I think some of this may be answered by Mr. Farr, and so I'll just kind of go through a number of things. I want to actually go back to start with the task force, actually. I think you all have been around since, what, January, so coming up on a year.

[02:47:16] Can you just talk about kind of the role that you all have played in some of these discussions so far in terms of which direction we should be going in in terms of recommendations around salinity and PFAS and what you think some of the recommended actions may be. You touched on some of them here and there, but just wanted to talk more so about the role of the task force and kind of the impact that you'll have on these discussions alongside legislators. Thank you, Supervisor Franklin. Don Panel with Prince William Water. I'll start. We kicked off the task force and And Wade Hugh is a great partner.

[02:47:52] We kicked that off initially really trying to tackle RPA concerns and property concerns around the reservoir. So the task force has been very successful in connecting the right people in Prince William County with Fairfax Water, with Prince William Water playing a role to make sure we understand roles and responsibilities around RPAs.

[02:48:12] We see great opportunity to leverage the collaboration that's there for salinity challenges, which are also environmental type challenges, I think we're going to need to pull in, as Calvin and Dr. Grant touched on, I think we're going to need to pull in different partners to deal with PFAS because there are different types of contributors to the PFAS issue. But I think the model works well. Yeah. And do you all plan to providing type of recommendations either to the county or even the General Assembly? Or is it more so bringing stakeholders together to kind of figure out how you all can mitigate internally within your own organizations?

[02:48:53] I think our to-do list right now is internal. I don't know. Certainly, I see opportunity going into next year for recommendations that maybe go outside of our internal control. Sure, that's helpful. Thank you. And then just more generally, I just want to talk about your thoughts on how do we kind of prevent intrusion of salt into the Occoquan Reservoir generally.

[02:49:17] You talked about some things, but obviously it's been a challenge. But our salt levels kind of go up and down depending on the season. So if you can just talk about generally how we can get into a mode of having them at the lowest levels consistently. Yeah, I'm stumped.

[02:49:39] I'm stumped because it's coming from us. It's coming from our VDOT. I can't necessarily say VDOT, stop using road salts, because that's a public safety hazard. So at least from the PFAS side, there's alternatives to some of these chemicals that may be safer.

[02:50:02] Right now, the use of salt is right now is management of it, being smart with it. But I ultimately think it will result in some of that and messaging best practices on our side, but also some more advanced treatment, quite honestly.

[02:50:19] When you're talking about drinking water, I can see that happening. I'm not sure what scale. That's where we're at right now. I mean, I can't think of anything else unless VDOT uses another alternative to road salts.

[02:50:35] Yep, and that's actually my next question around alternatives to salt. I know part of the challenge is salt is actually the most effective in getting rid of a lot of the ice that we see on the roads. There are some alternatives, but they're not as effective as salt.

[02:50:53] But just wondering what conversations you all have had with VDOT in the past around, you know, even if you use less effective measures, if you can use more of those less effective measures, do they eventually equal up to being as effective as the salt that VDOT is using?

[02:51:12] I know there's been some legislation around it that hasn't really moved forward, but just wondering your thoughts generally around that. Yeah, so I have Don chime in after I finish, but there are discussions about beet juice and brine. What I see with that, it still requires a level of salt usage, so you're not going to be able to just say, we're going to use beet juice everywhere.

[02:51:35] And then there's other alternatives that have been other places where they use sand. I don't find that to be as effective because if you don't put it on ice, it won't melt. So that's why I need to have this conversation with VDOT, which are trying to get on the schedule to get an idea.

[02:51:53] Hopefully they can have a better answer and say we're doing, since 10 years ago, we're doing this to manage it better. Sure, and I'll do my second round when appropriate. All right, Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. So as you're putting together and reviewing options for us, and based upon some of the analysis that you've already done, It seems that a 3% impervious, anything below that tends to better manage the challenges that we're facing.

[02:52:31] But as we get to more dense development and we get to more dense, above that 3% pervious is where we start to look at and see the greater source point pollutants into the water system. Well, I wish we would have had this conversation two years ago when we were working through our comprehensive plan because we could have helped, you know, as we start to look at, you know, we require a lot of asphalt and a lot of parking and a lot of things that require salt.

[02:53:06] It requires a lot of water runoff. And, you know, we've had a couple of cases recently where we've had applicants come in say we would rather have gravel than asphalt and so they they won that but they were in the rural area so which to me is actually preferable rather than having more asphalt on the ground um but you know are you looking at sort of those types of of solutions um and and and recommendations to help

[02:53:41] us better from a land use perspective and from a construction and and uh building perspective to try to help get at this from the source? Yeah, no, I think that's a brilliant question. And this was an issue that I felt, you know, is a little subtle, right? So if you look at the historical data, which is what I showed you, that 3% number is where you see that really rise and fast rise in imperviousness, but, and also water quality effects, right? But the fact is that that's given status quo growth policies, right?

[02:54:20] So there's absolutely ways, smart growth policies of, you know, adding population with minimizing runoff, with minimizing salt generation and so on. And so I think that that has to be part of the equation, right?

[02:54:37] Coming back to Supervisor Franklin, your question about, you mentioned, you know, the salinity levels kind of fluctuate in the Occoquan Reservoir. We actually know a little bit about that. So the way to think of it is that the de-icers on the impervious surfaces give these pulses, really high concentration pulses of sodium coming into the reservoir.

[02:54:59] So those peaks really are probably de-icer events during winter. And we can see them wash into the reservoir and then go into the drinking water treatment plant and actually go out to homes and businesses. So we can see that wash all the way through. But they're very, you know, relatively short, maybe a week or two long.

[02:55:15] You have enough of those, though, and it's like eating too much. Then you start building up salts in the system, which then kind of leach out over time. So we see that effect as well. The other thing that's going on is that UOSA's reclaimed water is discharging a steady stream of salt into the reservoir, right?

[02:55:36] And so that's kind of setting a baseline. And then that, in turn, depends on industrial inputs. We talked a little bit about Micron, and I guess there's some news around potentially growth of Micron, and that obviously has implications for the water quality here.

[02:55:58] And also, you know, 50% of that salt is coming from what we add. I don't think we're going to put the county on a diet, a salt-restricted diet, to protect the reservoir. I don't think that's realistic. But we can have a conversation around, you know, what kind of products we use.

[02:56:17] And there are some powdered detergents, for example, which have bulking agent. It doesn't serve any functional purpose. It just bulks up the detergent so it feels like you're buying more, I guess. And those tend to be things like sodium sulfate.

[02:56:32] So they tend to be very rich in sodium. So anyway, just kind of coming back to your question about fluctuations, we can actually kind of break it into pieces. And in the background, there's a geologic natural level, too. but we're so far above that it's kind of irrelevant if we went back 50 or 100 years ago there would be a kind of baseline level in this watershed as well madam chair i'd just like to point out that he answered her question so that's two and a half minutes from her next period

[02:57:03] supervisor franklin then bode sure yeah just uh very quickly um we talked about the costs being passed on to rate payers, but curious as to your thoughts, and this may be more of a discussion with the General Assembly or maybe even the feds, on how those increased costs can be passed on rather to industry rather than the rate payers. Now, obviously, we know that we do, as individuals, contribute to some of these discussions that we've been having, but obviously, industries

[02:57:40] contribute on a much greater, uh, level. Yeah, agreed. Um, I, um, able to, to meet with folks with the EPA regularly and there's no discussion of that. Uh, it's, uh, here's the mandate, get it done. And, uh, typically what happens is the point source folks are the ones on the hook for it and that's us. Um, so that is a conversation. Uh, I think the EPA, some of this stuff is driving some of these class action lawsuits you're seeing to try to recover some of this, uh, some

[02:58:15] the cost um as you know that it's not always uh you're not going to necessarily get all the costs from that sure um we got to i'm not sure the position of the new administration on that either you know uh we we assume that um i'm hearing discussion of less regulation deregulation in regards to the epa and could be to a point where funding is not going to be there and things of that nature these are all possibilities um but we have said this over and over that this is not a water utility issue, go after the sources.

[02:58:54] And it seems to get a lot of head nods, but not necessarily any action. Sure, and that's something for us to maybe advocate for when we're having discussions with members of our delegation. Just a couple of comments moving to the PFAS discussion.

[02:59:10] Obviously, this is a greater issue than Prince William County. This is a national issue. I will say Micron is working with the feds to kind of mitigate the impact that they've had over the years. the environment but you just mentioned we need better regs now the current administration has done a lot with regards to addressing PFAS but we have to go a lot further because I think part of the challenge is we're still learning a lot about PFAS particularly the inception of where PFAS is formed in the different products so I think we need to have a lot more discussions I

[02:59:45] think on the federal level with regards to how waste is broken down and how PFAS comes from that i'll also just say that more innovative technology is going to be required i think to have this discussion around pfos particularly with everyday products because we're learning each day a new product that contributes to pfos and these are everyday things when we talk about the fire department and the the suits that they wear to me that's very troubling and we should be having that discussion of how we can make them safer as they go out every day wearing these uniform several hours a day and essentially taking in what essentially are chemicals if we're being

[03:00:24] honest and so I know that this is a discussion that goes well beyond Prince William County but I appreciate what you all are doing to at least start to address kind of what we can do over the next 20 years or so to kind of mitigate the impact and I think lastly I just like to ask our county exec kind of what the discussion has been around salt generally and snow in the industry as I understand you've been part of some of those uh discussions so thank you sure uh well in a prior life i did fight snow but uh but we were we have been on a few calls in preparation for the winter

[03:01:00] season so in terms of winter preparedness i don't want to speak for vdot but the industry generally is certainly doing its best to pre-treat roads prior to inclement weather so that it decreases the amount of salt needed. I'll also say that there are some jurisdictions, VDOT included contracting to have equipment that uses, that disperses road salt and liquid, so brine and beet juice at the same time. So essentially making, yes, a mix of road salt and brine. So

[03:01:39] I think the, I say that to say that the industry is certainly doing its best to reduce the amount roll solid that it uses and i don't know that there are any uh current discussions happening statewide uh to to to push but i will say this is certainly top of mind for for vdot and we'll continue the conversation around how we could be supportive locally supervisor bodied and bade thank you madam chair uh thank you dr grant for the presentation good to see you again Welcome back to Chambers.

[03:02:17] I appreciate, as always, the detail you went into with the numbers and how the metrics are looking over time. I also appreciate that you sort of narrowing in on, to Suranda Gordy's point, what the corollary issues are in the environment, in the built environment, especially to what we're seeing as it pertains to salinity.

[03:02:39] So a couple questions, because you talked about imperviousness, you talked about density and what have you. Based on what you've seen, especially over time, has that changed when we looked at areas that are really already built up and redevelopment has occurred? So it's imperviousness that already exists, but the new structures are built or there's more density in an existing area that's already been dense?

[03:03:01] And are there strategies that we could maybe implement, especially in terms of revitalization and redevelopment strategy, where if we already have an area that's impervious that we know contributes towards this, Are there things and strategies we can implement that if we're going to be revitalizing or redeveloping an area at any way that we can look at to sort of, to the point, as I say, possible, curtail some of this increased salinity, increased PFOS, and these other things?

[03:03:27] Yeah, that's a really great question. I think that the answer, common sense would say absolutely right. If you do a great job at minimizing runoff generation, if you do a great job at treating the runoff that you generate before it gets into streams, that's got to help.

[03:03:47] I think the situation that we're in now is that we haven't seen that in the data yet. Sure. Right? And it may be because we haven't looked precisely enough yet. It may be that our historical data isn't granular enough yet to see that.

[03:04:05] effect. But I just want to really clarify that it makes a ton of sense to think carefully about how we manage stormwater runoff in particular. I mean, even the de-icer question, I mean, we run up against this, I think, false dichotomy of public safety versus water quality.

[03:04:25] I'd say it's a false dichotomy because the truth is, at the back end, how we handle the runoff from roads could be changed in such a way that we address we address it um you know so we we both have that public safety benefit but we also keep the salt out of the stream um without going into details there are lots of ideas out there so so i think it's really imagination it's it's probably policy um around you know development and so on um so so anyway absolutely that's the right way to go appreciate that and then a second question is as it actually gets to the point that you just

[03:05:02] made because yes i know as soon as our franklin sort of outlined um there is some movement maybe in the general assembly maybe looking at the the the ice the uh the salt on the roads vis-a-vis v dot but there's also frankly conversation around especially here in princeton county where most of our roads are state maintained how those are constructed how they may be retrofitted with the gutters being able to have better filtration built in i know that other parts of the country Other regions have more robust ways in which they help buffer their drains from, you know, sort of filtering through trash and other things and microplastics and things like that.

[03:05:41] So to your point, it's not an or, it's an and. It's a semicolon conversation of how can we make sure that we're continuing to do the things that are necessary from a public safety standpoint. So de-icing roads, having firefighters that have the equipment to protect them, having the products that we know help keep people safe from fires and other issues, but also looking at how we then look at our built environment and retrofit what we already have around that kind of issue.

[03:06:09] so my question there there's a question there my question is is there any once we get to the end especially with the task force and to the questions been asked a couple times are there any recommendations that we can take the state can take to look at those issues because frankly it's a comprehensive all belts suspenders all hands on deck kind of approach and will those kind of recommendations be available at the end yeah well i'm not i don't know the task anyway Anyway, I think that the potential is high for something like that.

[03:06:41] So I guess I would step back a bit and say that things are really changing in this system. I mean, if you go back 40 or 50 years ago when the Occoquan policy was developed, the real issue in the reservoir were nutrients.

[03:06:57] And so we had serious algal blooms and so forth. And then the sewer systems were all consolidated. We had eulosa, high-level treatment, and so on. And we really solved that problem for at least the past 30 years. And if you look at the historical data, it's still pretty good from a nutrient perspective.

[03:07:17] But then now we have this emergence of other things which are really related to the built environment. Other water quality problems which are emerging from the built environment. And that's emerging because the amount of the watershed, the fraction of the watershed that's covered in the built environment is getting bigger and bigger.

[03:07:36] So the effects of that are going to be large, too. And so I think the recommendations that have to come out are going to be looking at kind of a one-water approach. If you look at it holistically, what can we do in the sewer shed to minimize salt generation and PFAS production?

[03:07:55] Including, honestly, it's tricky having a major industry discharged to a wastewater treatment plant that then drains to a drinking water reservoir. That is an inherently tricky thing and needs very, very special attention, in my opinion.

[03:08:12] So you've got that conversation going on. You've got, you know, what's going on in terms of what people put down the drain going on. Then you have the built environment and how we handle stormwater runoff and recommendations around that, particularly for redevelopment or new growth.

[03:08:35] Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. let's continue that chain of thought because it goes back to where I started with the previous round of questions. If you're looking to reduce salinity and even PFOS, I'm assuming based on your sodium mass loading diagram, you know, you've got reclaimed water accounts for 20% of the sodium mass loading, correct? Right. And that's annually. Annually. I just wanted to kind of caveat that by saying that day to day, that's hugely variable depending on how much rain. And that's fine.

[03:09:08] But if we're looking at it on an annual basis, I'm assuming that the amount of water introduced into the reservoir from the reclaimed water is a tiny, minute fraction of that. Six percent.

[03:09:23] Coming from the Aquan. So that's six percent. What is the Aquan River and what is Bull Run, respectively? Roughly. So it's in the slide. I think it's 4027, something like that. No, I meant in terms of water volume. Water volume. Yeah, actually, we could go back and rather than me speculating, we could get that number directly, I think.

[03:09:53] Oh, I see. It's the beginning of it. Can we use the arrows? No, it seems to be disabled. You're in trouble if she's your technical expert. We're not joking.

[03:10:10] Like, kind of. Ah, okay. Okay, beautiful, beautiful. Okay, so. Isn't it beautiful? Yeah, exactly. You are beautiful. So, let's see if I can't get it to work.

[03:10:26] Oh, here we go. Yeah, so the number you were looking for is actually earlier on. Yep. Yeah, okay. So 6%? Here's the number. So Acaquon River is almost 50%, Bull Run's 25%, reclaimed water's 6%.

[03:10:44] So you're real bang for the buck because your reclaimed water has essentially a three... I know where you're going. It's two and a half times that of the Occoquan and twice more than that of Bull Run.

[03:11:06] So you're bang for the buck on a sodium recovery. Your focus needs to be on that 6% of the water. Yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking at problems like this, there's really two numbers that are important. One is the mass load, which I'm showing here, or the water volume.

[03:11:22] The other is the concentration, right? So Occoquan River is a lot of water. That's what I'm getting at. There's your concentration. Yeah, the Occoquan River is a lot of water, but it's a low concentration, so that leads to a high mass. Thus making it harder to address. The reclaimed water is sitting at around 60 milligrams per liter of sodium.

[03:11:42] Yeah. And so, absolutely, that's the target in terms of concentration. Is that your target for remediation? Well, you know, and there's some low-hanging fruit there. I would suggest it's more than low-hanging fruit, given the volume.

[03:12:02] Yeah. Yeah. So the question is, yes, I've talked to you, Osa. We have the county has two seats on the board. I have one of another board member. So I've had constant conversations about salinity and what you can do from a treatment standpoint. So actually can reduce that salinity from with the reclaimed water.

[03:12:22] So that has been a directive somewhat. So, again, PFAS addressing that. And then the close second is the salinity aspect. Yeah. And I don't mean to blame you. Actually, they add a tiny fraction of the salt, around 1% or so.

[03:12:41] They are the recipients of salt. - I was in, by no means, blaming UOSA. I was blaming the people upstream of UOSA. - Exactly, yeah, yeah. - Which, to my earlier comment.

[03:12:56] - All right, doesn't look like we have anyone else. Thank you so very much for this thorough presentation. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Thank you very much, Mr. Farr and Dr. Grant for the presentations. I also want to just give an acknowledgement and thank you to Wade Hugh who just did a lot of work to make sure that today was possible in terms of the two presentations coming.

[03:13:19] So thank you all very, very much. I want to now, Madam Chair, members of the board, if I can, invite Yolanda Green up to provide introduction to our panel from Dominion Energy. Yolanda Green has just been phenomenal to work with and a great point of contact and liaison.

[03:13:40] So with that, Ms. Green, I will turn the podium to you. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, to the members of the board and to the staff. I appreciate you as always. I am Yolanda Green, the External Affairs Representative for Dominion Energy, and you've had several topics you wanted to have addressed.

[03:14:03] I know a few of you have had the opportunity to come to visit some of our facilities and to speak to some of our folks, and you probably came back and shared that info. So I brought along with me, I have Bill Murray, who is the Senior Vice President of Corporate Affairs and Communications, along with policy.

[03:14:20] I have Greg Maffey, who is the Director of Electric Transmission and Engagement Permitting in Land. And then I also have Cedric Green, who is the Senior Vice President of Generation.

[03:14:36] So in that order, they will come up and speak to you for a few minutes and then take what questions that you have. Thank you so much. Click the right click.

[03:14:52] The wheel in the middle. Okay. Okay. All right. Good afternoon. So I'm going to move very quickly. We've been told to get this done in about 15 minutes, so we will move as quickly as we can.

[03:15:09] I apologize. One lesson of energy. There are no simple answers. And for that, I apologize in advance. One thing I thought I would actually do if I can successfully go back. I got the advice 18 years ago when I joined Dominion.

[03:15:24] If you don't understand the three parts of the business, nothing else makes sense. That's particularly relevant here because just driving over here, I passed through three different utility service territories. We play a role in all three of those areas, but it's a different role. So what are not shown on the slide are power plants.

[03:15:42] And yes, there are distributed energy resources, but the great majority of our power comes from a traditional central power plant of one type or another. It could be nuclear, it could be natural gas. In two years, it could be the largest wind farm in the United States, largest offshore wind farm, I hasten to add.

[03:15:59] But you generate power, you transmit it over long distances, and then you distribute it to individual homes and businesses. The role of a substation, with the exception of the types of customers you all have already been discussing in a couple of previous presentations, data centers, or for that matter, big factories, they're transmission connected so the voltage stays at a transmission level past the substation into the large customer.

[03:16:24] Generally what a substation does, a distribution substation, steps down the voltage so it can be distributed into individual homes and businesses. I'm going to show you a map in a minute, and I will talk about which of the three parts we do for which utility in this area. I will say the regulatory model, since you all were just under the water utility, talking about the role of federal government, the role of state government, the role of local government, it's a little different for the three parts of the business.

[03:16:49] Distribution is almost exclusively state regulated. Transmission is very much shared between the federal government and the state government. generation is largely state regulated albeit under the rubric of federal environmental standards particularly air quality standards but other types of environmental standards as well. So that all being said go to the next slide. I'm going to focus here on the map. I do think it's important to just give you the industry benchmark. I can feel Cedric cringing behind me because it's an average of an average of an average. A megawatt is a million watts. It's about 250 homes. So when

[03:17:27] you hear the term megawatt get thrown around, one megawatt, about 250 homes. The rule of thumb, it's not a precise number. It's not like calculating pie out to, you know, 20 digits, but it is a rule of thumb. When you see customers, the water utility does it better than electric utilities because they showed you people. When we do customers, we mean a home or business.

[03:17:50] So multiply by about two and a half to try to derive the number of people. And then rates, I think important to note on electric rates. All in, our rates are about 15% below the national average. That didn't start being true last night.

[03:18:05] Our rates have been consistently below the national average for 20 years. We'll be back a little 20 years, probably beyond that, but I've got reliable data for the last 20 years. That's something we're proud of. That's something we intend to keep. Let me talk about the map. Blue is your Dominion Energy customer, soup to nuts, and you get a bill from us.

[03:18:25] Blue is our retail customers, sometimes called the Dominion Load Serving Entity. If you hear the Dominion LSC, that's blue. Blue is growing very fast. Gold is growing faster. Gold are co-ops and municipal electrics.

[03:18:44] So in blue, we do everything. We do generation, transmission, distribution. Let's take the municipal electrics. We have two big municipal electrics we serve, several much smaller ones. the two big ones. One is right up the road, it's Manassas, the other is Harrisonburg. For those two municipal electrics, we do transmission and generation. We do not do distribution, but we do two of the three. For the electric cooperatives, we do only transmission for the electric cooperatives in our service territory. It is worth noting that in Virginia, there's often been a belief that

[03:19:19] there's two big utilities, there's Dominion, and we're certainly the biggest, and then American Electric Power's APCO subsidiary. It's been true for a long time that the electric cooperatives collectively are bigger than APCO and are the second biggest utility in Virginia. And for the first time in the last year or so, one electric cooperative is bigger than APCO by itself.

[03:19:40] And that's true now and is going to keep being true as far as the eye can see. So the electric cooperatives are the fastest growing sort of part of electric demand in Virginia. JLARC yesterday, you heard reference, public speaker made reference to the Joint Legislative Audit Review Commission study yesterday. They estimated about 60 percent of data center growth is in cooperative service territory, and not any one cooperative. Certainly there are three, and they went ahead and name-checked them, so I'll just relate what JLARC said.

[03:20:10] NOVAC, which I realize wraps right around our service area in this county, Rappahannock, and then Mecklenburg. Apologize. This slide, you can read for yourself. So I'll let this pass without comment.

[03:20:26] We just always like to show our role in the community. I'm going to spend just a minute on this slide. It's a complicated slide because you try to cram three slides into one for efficiency. So let's look over on the right side of the slide.

[03:20:43] I'm going to call that, I know it's not red and it's not quite orange, the bar on the top. So kind of the reddish orange bar, the burnt orange, let's call it. That is what we call the stakeholder plan. What is a stakeholder plan? We were asked to produce a plan for meeting demand over the next 15 years that has no natural gas.

[03:21:01] We are highly skeptical this plan would work. It works on paper, whether it would work in reality. What are the reasons for our skepticism? I'll just give you a couple quick examples. We don't think we can cite that much solar. We could buy the panels. We could spend the money. We don't think we can get that much solar.

[03:21:17] And to put that in perspective, 23,000 megawatts of solar is about a quarter million acres of land. So about five times the size of the District of Columbia. We also don't think we could import the amount of power that would be needed to keep the grid operating without building natural gas.

[03:21:33] And make no mistake, when you import power, you're importing natural gas for the most part. I should note here, everything I'm saying is about electrons. It's not about back office transactions where you might buy a renewable energy certificate or something of that nature. I'm talking about flow of electrons. All of this, I should note also, is from our integrated resource plan.

[03:21:52] It is a 15-year plan for serving projected load. With today's technology, today's public policy, it is a snapshot in time. It is not, I emphasize, not Soviet bloc central planning. There are NGOs that approach it like it is a command economy and that everything in this document sort of becomes true by being in the document.

[03:22:13] If the commission were to approve, say a corporation commission were to approve this document, it is not permission to build any single power plant or any single transmission line. we need to bring individual cases for those. I'll also note that one of the differences in types of utility, we're the only utility in the state that does a 15-year plan, the integrated resource plan. There's nothing magic about 15 years. 16 years ago, AARP was going around the country with a draft bill that required 20 years. At the time, we did 10 years, and so it landed at 15 years to the magic of public policy makers. There's nothing magic about 15 years. That's what we've

[03:22:48] been using? Whatever kind of resource you like, our plan shows a lot of it. Whatever kind of resource you don't like, our plan shows a lot of it. When you hear all of the above, that's what we feel we need to meet the demands of our customers. Importantly, when I show you these generation resources, an SMR acronym check, that's a small modular reactor. So small only in the sense it's smaller than a traditional nuclear unit doesn't mean it's small. 300 megawatts, that would be about the size of a small modular reactor is still a lot of energy.

[03:23:22] It's just small compared to what we've done traditionally. And I should also note, and Cedric will get into this in more detail, when we talk about natural gas generation, there's two types. We're proposing some of each. There's quick start natural gas, which runs only on the hottest or coldest days or when demand for other reasons is at a peak or when you have significant resources down for maintenance and it's unusually hot or cold.

[03:23:44] Think of one of those magic 95-degree Virginia Aprils where we would typically have a lot of stuff down for maintenance because it's usually not that hot, but it certainly can be whether it's in September. There's an old saying, never plan a September winding outdoors in Virginia because it will either be 20 or 95, each as equally possible.

[03:24:04] All of these resources are just for blue. They're just for our retail customers, just for blue and with the exception of Harrisonburg and Manassas. So those two municipal electrics and us, none of this is to serve demand in the cooperative area.

[03:24:20] Absolutely, we show transmission resources to serve demand, but we are not the power plant provider for the co-ops. There's a caveat on that, too. They own 11% of our North Anna nuclear station, all of them except NOVAC, I should say. Most of the co-ops are part of another type of co-op, Old Dominion Electric Cooperative.

[03:24:40] NOVAC dropped out of that some years ago. So the rest of the co-ops who are not NOVAC own 11% of North Anna, and I'm rounding, and they own half of the Clover Power Station. So that's our nexus in generation with the co-opters. That's all I have, and I'll be back to answer questions, and I'm going to yield to Greg to talk about transmission, and then we'll cover power generation.

[03:25:00] Thank you, Bill. Greg Matthew, nice to see all of you again. Happy to, of course, answer your questions after I go through this. As Bill talked about, on the generation side, they do 15-year plans. On the transmission side, we do yearly plans, year-over-year plans at five-year increments.

[03:25:21] That's on the reliability network. And so many of you have seen this graph before. Load forecast on the 2024 forecast, which comes out in December of each year, is showing a marked increase from just a couple years ago when PJM did this back in 2022.

[03:25:44] We're just showing incrementally how that forecast has changed each and every year. The main focus of this, as you guys all know, and what Bill talked about, is that load is growing. We're the fastest-growing utility in the country. But what I want to share with you is that the forecast, if you look at the red bubbles, is actually meeting the operational needs of our system, right?

[03:26:07] So in the last three years, each system has seen a summer peak, which means that it's the highest amount of demand on our system. In 2022, with winter storm Elliott, we saw both a winter peak and an all-time system peak.

[03:26:24] That means either winter or summer. And this summer alone, we saw the top six system-wide peaks happen in July. And the good news is that when we are thinking about the future, we also have to operate in the present, and not one person's lights flickered on July 16th when we hit a peak over 23,000 megawatts, which is a really important number because now that is the benchmark that each and every transmission line has to meet going forward because now we don't plan to the basic

[03:27:00] or the foundation. We have to plan to what we think is possible. And so PJM now uses the 23 as a peaking system, and that all reliability metrics have to meet that megawatt threshold. And so as we've talked about, and as Bill talked about the JLARC study yesterday, this has been sort of confirming what we've been talking about for a number of years now, which is the low demand is growing. The bar chart is showing the amount of requests that transmission gets from distribution companies, whether that's co-ops or Dominion Distribution.

[03:27:35] When the distribution company feels like they can't meet the load demand with the existing distribution network, they ask for transmission help. Hey, we need a new substation in X location. Usually that substation is a number of miles or maybe a couple hundred feet away from the existing transmission network, and then we need a new transmission line to serve that substation.

[03:27:54] So each one of those requests is for some sort of system upgrade to help the distribution company. Year-to-date, this was pulled back actually in October, so we had 63 requests this year.

[03:28:10] I think the last number I saw was closer to the 76 that we saw at the end of last year. But the interesting figure here is that although I think we're running a little bit less than the number of requests that we got last year, the megawatts requested are larger. All right. So that's an interesting number. What is also happening is that growth, although significant in NOVA, is not just held to NOVA any longer.

[03:28:33] It's moving down the 95 corridor, as we call north central Virginia, into Henrico, central Virginia of Chesterfield and Henrico. And then, of course, with Mecklenburg Co-op down in Mecklenburg, Southside is seeing a major increase in load as well.

[03:28:51] And this requires all sorts of network upgrades, especially when you're talking about a system in Mecklenburg where it was a different economy 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 5 years ago. Now it's a more digital economy, so it's moving from farming or furniture making to a much more dense industry that's using more power.

[03:29:13] With that comes system upgrades. So a lot of the conversations that we talk about with delivery point requests or meeting local load is regionally based or sort of very hyperlocal. But those requests for power aggregate to system needs. And so each year, PJM opens open solicitations to meet reliability needs in the future.

[03:29:40] So in this case, in 2024, they had what they call an open window. They look five years out, and actually this year they also look eight years out to say these are the reliability concerns that we see at that point based on the load forecast.

[03:29:57] And here are the number of potential violations that are going to occur in that year. Transmission owners and developers go and propose solutions to meet those needs. This year, Dominion partnered with utility partners in First Energy and AEP to have a robust, durable, long-lasting solution to address the many concerns that PJM was identifying.

[03:30:24] Namely, as you can imagine, Virginia, as sort of the epicenter of growth in PJM, a lot of load flow is coming into our system, and that's either overloading our lines or not being able to come into our service territory. So partnering with our neighboring utilities elsewhere was allowed to have a bigger and wholesale solution across PJM's footprint and not just Band-Aid solutions with each utility fighting against each other just to solve things in their zone.

[03:30:52] And so PJM is going through their review process right now. They've made one read of their selection, their recommendation. It'll go to in January for a second read, and it'll go to PJM's board for final approval in February. But the staff at PJM is recommending what you see here on the screen, which is adding a new voltage into the Dominion service territory at 765 kV.

[03:31:17] As you can see from AAP's service territory in Joshua Falls, near Lexington, comes up through Hanover and up through North Anna, up into Falk here. and then the orange is a 500 line that really sort of addresses that needs in the 95 corridor coming out of North Anna and then wraps around 95 again up until Falkir that's trying to move energy up to Northern Virginia but also serve the load growth that's happening in North Central this slide is important simply because I don't want to bore you with words but there's really three ways in which transmission is born I think this is sort of what you guys have asked

[03:31:56] before when it comes to cost allocations Network upgrades are really about generation. So new generation comes on the system. They add new electrons. The system acts differently with that new generation source. And so there's a number of network upgrades that will be needed to have that generator work fully.

[03:32:15] And so there's a bunch of transmission that is needed for new generation sources coming into the system. Then there's your traditional reliability projects that either come as baseline or supplemental. These are really important distinctions because baseline, which are the system hardening, the bulk electric system hardening projects, that is cost shared amongst PJM members.

[03:32:37] All right, so 50% is allocated to the utility zone, and the other 50% is allocated to the PJM members based on how the value of that transmission system, that transmission project to that local system. And then supplemental projects are really addressing local load issues that are 100% allocated to the transmission owner.

[03:32:59] So, for instance, we have a new substation needed in Prince William County to serve load. That is a supplemental project, and 100% of that cost is back on Dominion Service Territory. And then in Prince William, we have 24 projects sort of currently working in various stages.

[03:33:20] are in major projects are in active construction, but really the 24 projects are in various stages of planning. 15 are really being talked about publicly right now. The other nine are sort of in engineering, pre-engineering planning.

[03:33:36] But all these projects we've come to you before, they're in active public engagement, some of which have recently just gone to the state corporation for their review, and others are pending submittal to the SEC early next year. but we're going through the public engagement process right now to talk through.

[03:33:55] But with that, I'll probably answer more of your questions as you have them, but I'll yield my time to Cedric to talk about Possum Point and other generation. Thank you. Good afternoon. Thank you all for having us. Again, Cedric Green with Dominion Energy, pleased to be with you.

[03:34:12] So I want to talk a little bit about our power generation assets. Bill talked about the all-of-the-above approach that we have as a company. And here are just, you know, some examples.

[03:34:29] So, you know, we're really proud of our nuclear assets at Surrey and North Anna. We have recently, you know, worked with the NRC and extended the operating license at North Anna by 20 years this year, and then in 2021, extended the license by 20 years at Surrey.

[03:34:53] So now both stations are 80-year nuclear assets. So, again, we're proud of those assets, carbon-free generation. Having said that, you know, we continue to also look at our fossil unit.

[03:35:12] So I'll talk a little bit about our Possum Point station. But, you know, we we depend heavily on our on our natural gas combined cycle as well as simple cycle fleet, primarily because, one, the technology is is such that, you know, on days on days like today, there's not a lot of solar generation.

[03:35:38] if any solar generation or daylight to that. Our simple cycle and combined cycle units are designed one, two, for fast ramp rates. So all of a sudden there's cloud cover. Those engines will respond to ensure that we take care of our customers, we maintain the grid. This actually shows, this is actually a rendition of the Chesterfield Energy Reliability Center. So we've announced

[03:36:09] that, you know, we're looking to install four 250 megawatt combustion turbines at our Chesterfield facility. And so, you know, the air permitting application is underway. We'll be going to the State Corporation Commission probably around Q1 of next year for the CPCN filing. And, you know, more to come there in addition to that when you look at our integrated resource plan you'll also

[03:36:44] see that you know we're we're also looking at combined cycle you know assets natural gas assets in the future as well having said that you know our focus continues on on solar build you know we you know we're proud of the solar assets that we have and and we're going to continue to to build uh solar um and some projects just like the dullest uh solar and storage project we're looking for opportunities to build solar plus uh battery storage on the wind front um you

[03:37:22] know we're proud of the two pilot turbines that we have now in service actually went in service october of 2020 uh about 27 miles off the coast of virginia beach the two uh six megawatt uh turbines and Bill touched on the fact that that you know we are moving forward with the commercial coastal Virginia offshore wind project what we call sea bow which is 176 wind turbines rated at 14.7 megawatts each so again 2600 megawatts in capacity so again this

[03:38:02] this really just shows um the you know generation mix and uh let me shift now so let me talk a little bit about our possum point uh facility uh so you know one you know we're very proud of that of that facility one two uh possum point is a critical asset on our system right so they because One, because of its location there in Dumfries versus where the load center is here, Prince William County, Loudoun County, data center load growth.

[03:38:41] It is, you know, and work closely with Greg and the electric transmission team, they tell me often it is a critical node on our system, right? So, you know, we've been around since 1948. You know, we burned coal at that facility for years.

[03:39:00] number six fuel oil, number two fuel oil, and then we now use natural gas and diesel fuel, number two fuel oil, they're at the site. So as you see, we actually have two, really, we've got our simple cycle and combined cycle.

[03:39:20] The unit six, that is our combined cycle, what we call our base load unit there, rated at 573 megawatts. And then we also have six turbines, combustion turbines, 90 megawatts in total capacity there to what we call our smaller CTs, combustion turbines.

[03:39:46] So, again, this facility is so, so important to us. And one of the things I want to talk about, I mentioned, you know, continuing to make investments. So when, you know, as we look at the low growth that is in our service territory and much more to come, one of the things we're looking at moving forward with at Possum Point and at some of our other stations is we're trying to figure out how can we get more generation out of our existing assets, okay?

[03:40:22] Before I talk about this, just to give you an idea. So, you know, another valuable asset, you know, in this region for us is our Warren County facility, right? It is a large three-on-one combined cycle facility. We have done up rates at that facility already.

[03:40:42] We're getting about another 40 megawatts out of that facility by doing, and when I talk about this, by doing upgrades to our gas turbines. And it's paying off. Not too far from here, at our Remington facility, we have four simple cycle turbines there, Falkier County.

[03:41:05] We just wrapped up the last upgrade of the four turbines there. So where I'm going is, I'm focusing on Fossum Point, but we're looking at our other facilities. We've done the same thing at Ladysmith. We've upgraded those combustion turbines at Ladysmith down in, I guess, Caroline County.

[03:41:25] So to go back to Possum Point, we're taking a similar approach here. So we have worked with the original equipment manufacturer of our combustion turbines, and there are modifications that we can make to the compressor section of that turbine, the combustor, and the turbine itself to get an additional 10 megawatts of capacity out of each gas turbine.

[03:41:52] So 20 megawatts, we have two combustion turbines. And in addition to that, you know, as a result of those gas turbine improvements, you know, the way we're, one way we're getting that additional horsepower out of those engines is by increasing the heat input to those engines.

[03:42:14] That, because we're putting more heat into those engines, we're actually going to get more output out of our steam turbine as well. We're also, you know, separate from that, also looking to upgrade the steam turbine. You know, I'll talk a little bit about reliability.

[03:42:33] We're doing it for reliability reasons, but also this upgrade will give us more output. So we're looking at an additional 10 megawatts. So the main point I want to make here is we're making investments. The last bullet point, you know, again, you know, how do we leverage technology?

[03:42:53] Well, we have facilities now that have inlet air cooling, right? So, and what that means is on the hottest days, if you think about the way air is, if it's 95 degrees outside, the density of the air is much lower than when it's 50 degrees, right?

[03:43:14] So we have inlet chillers at a number of our stations, and what that allows us to do is on those hot days, We can actually reduce the temperature of the air from 95 degrees outside from 95 degrees to 50 degrees, right, which increases mass flow through the compressor, and we can get more megawatts.

[03:43:39] And so that's another project that is on our horizon. We're looking to install inlet air cooling at Possum Point to get more output out of that facility. Again, the point I want to drive here is we're making investments there, critical asset.

[03:43:57] I've talked about a number of these already. Bill talked about the small modular reactors. You know, when we have storage up here, I mentioned earlier about the, you know, Bill talked about the all of the above approach we have.

[03:44:15] We oftentimes talk about, you know, our battery storage projects, and, you know, we're proud of those. know we're we will be piloting some longer duration batteries at our Darby Town facility which is in the in the Richmond area but you know we're also the proud owners of of the largest battery in the world which is Bath County right Bath County is our pump storage facility it is rated at 3,000 megawatts so that

[03:44:47] is that is our largest battery and we're very proud of that of that asset all right thank you so that is the end of our presentation we would like to thank you and thank you for the time that you've spent with us to prep and be ready for this thank all of you for allowing us the opportunity to come and now it's open for questions thank you so i'm sending it back over to you thank you so much i'm chomping at the bit um you guys are fortunate enough to have come a day after the jay

[03:45:22] JLAC report. And I actually just have a couple questions, then I'll let my colleagues. Page 51 of the JLAC report. AEP Ohio is proposing a new fee structure in which data centers over a certain size must pay 80% of the energy that they anticipate they will need. You know, does Dominion plan to account, or how does Dominion plan to account for data centers' impact on infrastructure your cost? Because that's going to be a big issue for consumers, for your customers. Sure. I'll take the JLARC questions for two reasons. One, I was there yesterday, and two, 27 years ago, and about

[03:46:01] 60 pounds, I worked at JLARC. So I'm somewhat familiar with their, not this study, but with their process. So first, it's important to note, we are not brand new to the data center industry. Some other utilities, and not to pick an AEP Ohio, it's a newer thing. We've been serving data centers for more than 10 years so over time what we've done is had a variety of requirements put on data centers in terms of advanced payments to ensure that you don't end up with what you call in utility space stranded costs that is we built something for you and you didn't pay for it and

[03:46:37] for whatever reason you leave the system one of the findings jail our cat is as of right now when And they did the snapshot in time and came with a theme, data centers, what they're paying, and what they're using equate. Going forward, they said some changes will be needed.

[03:46:53] Now, I'm going to speak only here to the Dominion regulatory model because how the co-ops work is different, how the municipal electrics work is different. And I only know enough about them to be dangerous. So, in Dominion's case, we actually have an ideal regulatory framework to keep making the needed changes.

[03:47:08] AEP Ohio, like utilities in most states, files a rate case when they want to file a rate case. It usually means they want a rate increase. It would be an unusual world where your utility would say, hey, let's do a soup-to-nuts rate increase and you can cut our rates. We don't do it that way in Virginia. In Virginia, we file every two years for what's called a biennial review of our base rates.

[03:47:29] It's also where they don't just look at our costs and our expenses and say, what should your rates be? They also look at the allocation among customer classes. So that'll be the venue. So rather than one dramatic change at a moment in time, we've got an opportunity to make those changes every two years.

[03:47:45] So absolutely agree with JLARC that modification will be needed over time. That's not surprising. We've had a long record of dealing with that. And the right venue, I also hasten to add, JLARC did note cost allocation, highly technical, does not lend itself well to legislation, better fits the regulatory role at the commission.

[03:48:05] We've got an every two-year opportunity to do that. Got you. I was looking at your slides, and you guys were talking about SMRs, small nuclear reactors, and I feel like there's a reason why nuclear energy is declining in popularity, you know, and so I'm a little leery about SMRs.

[03:48:22] Are there any benefits that would, you know, outweigh, again, investing in more money into nuclear? So, Madam Chair, I would just respectfully say that in terms of sort of energy dialogue in the country, nuclear, whatever you views our nuclear is having in the moment, What are the advantages of nuclear power?

[03:48:41] Operates around the clock. A nuclear unit can run 18 months at a time until it needs to be refueled and then can run for another 18 months. Generation four of the small modular reactors, there are different types of small modular reactor technology. Some types of the technology can actually follow load, which is something a traditional nuclear unit cannot do.

[03:49:01] In other words, they can ramp up very quickly in the same fashion as natural gas. Nuclear units are carbon-free and they're emissions-free. There are no air quality emissions from a nuclear unit. So it is really the only absent states like the western states who have very large hydro, and I think even in the west it would be very unusual to get a large hydro project permitted anymore.

[03:49:26] Absent very large hydro, nuclear units are the only substantial source of around-the-clock carbon-free electricity. So that is their big policy advantage. The challenge has been construction costs. very clear variable costs that is to say there's a fuel they have a fuel component it's very small so your first kilowatt hour is your challenge after that you get very stable costs i'm going to leave you with a thought of why of our very first nuclear planet surrey in 1972 surrey one operated this time of year it went commercial at the end of 1972 surrey two it's 20 and it went

[03:50:04] commercial in the spring of 1973. We took some criticism at the time. Why are you doing nuclear? Oil's been cheap forever. Oil will always be cheap. Just do cheap oil. Why are you doing nuclear? At the time, nobody was thinking about carbon, or at least nobody in energy planning space was thinking about carbon. That fall, after the Yom Kippur War, oil prices doubled, then they tripled, and then they quadrupled. It's called the first oil shock. A number of units were converted from oil to coal they've been converted in the 50s in the 60s rather from

[03:50:37] coal to oil were converted back to coal uh to because of the oil price shock so it's baked in our corporate dna nuclear is part of the solution surrey and north and are two of the best values for our customers over the long term and in the case of that example even in the short term i'm out of my five minutes i want to turn to weir gordy and possibly come back thank you madam Chair, I'm going to start with Mr. Murray, and I'm going to start by reading a line out of the JLOC report, and it says, some planned data center campuses are expected to consume well over 1,000 megawatts once fully built out, which is more than the 950 megawatt generation capacity of the

[03:51:16] state's largest nuclear reactor. And I'm going to follow that up with a comment you made that I actually agree with. You made a distinction with respect to substations. A substation located on a data center site is for the data center. I would also note that the possum point generation capacity is less than the nuclear generation capacity, and that we have data center sites in this county that will require more generation than either one of those sites separately. Now, getting to your

[03:51:50] assertion with respect to the difference between a substation for a data center and a substation for regular use, that is the source of my greatest frustration and my constituents' greatest frustrations, because although you're willing to say that, your staff in public meetings is not. We get the constant dance, this transmission line is for reliability concerns.

[03:52:20] But if that transmission line is serving five substations that are solely being used to accommodate the data center industry, brand new data centers, how is that a reliability issue when the only thing it's serving is the data centers and it's not serving the surrounding neighborhoods or anything else. It's simply providing capacity to the full extent of that 235 kV line. So a couple things. What I said in my quick flyover is certain customers are transmission connected. That is to say you're not stepping the voltage down because they're at a

[03:52:57] transmission voltage. That's not to say that substation doesn't have other roles. Let me back up to your generation point first. The majority, as I understand it, and Yolanda and Greg are both much more expert on the range of data center projects that you're looking at here. The majority of the data center projects you're dealing with, we have nothing to do with generation.

[03:53:16] We are the transmission provider. We're not the generation provider. All of the generation resources I showed you are for those blue dots where Dominion is the retail provider. So I will defer to the co-ops on their generation planning. With transmission generally, think about we just had a couple, not so much here in Virginia, but nationally had a couple big hurricanes this summer and fall. And what you'll notice when you go through a big power outage, whether it's a hurricane, a derecho, or an ice storm, is your biggest progress in restoration happens that first night. And that sometimes

[03:53:51] causes frustration. Hey, you had 200,000 customers out, you restored 100,000 the first night, why can't you keep up that pace? Almost all of that occurs before any line worker has touched a single line and what it is is transmission switching in the office the more transmission solutions you have the more options you have to do switching and to keep serving customers and with that i'll ask greg if he's got anything he wants to add uh because he's our trans greg was next up on my list anyway because he can't ignore my phone call today or my text message

[03:54:26] so so uh supervisor we're the story remains the same is that substations and transmission is for reliability, whether that is at a local level or on a regional level when you're talking about 500 kV type lines. The reason being is that the distribution network has said that their capacity to reliably serve not just existing companies, but that new obligation to serve someone new has strained the distribution network. That is the sole reason why a new substation is needed.

[03:55:01] And usually that substation is off where the transmission system is, right? So that's why you get a two mile line or a six mile line or whatever the case may be. But that substation serves as a way to reduce the strain on the existing distribution network, allows distribution more operational flexibility to switch load around, but what it also does is adds needed injects from the transmission system to help manage the flows on the system. And so it's always reliability, whether there's benefits beyond that. Of course, there's always benefits

[03:55:39] beyond that. But when we talk about reliability, it's for the system at large that benefits all of our customers. There may be a driver because there's a single request for a large load that has outpaced what the distribution network can accommodate at that time. But I would argue that that differs from the reality of the situation on the ground. I'll take the Wellington Corridor, for example. You've got a new transmission line servicing five substations. Two of the substations serve one campus. They're taking the entirety of the 600 megawatts available. The other three are servicing other data centers solely and exclusively. So that transmission line and

[03:56:18] those five substations have nothing, and I mean nothing, to do with reliability for the surrounding area, for Prince William County in general, and for the consumers. It is solely built and done to service those those new load demands so don't talk to me about reliability this is a load demand solution not a reliability one and when you continue to give this reliability argument that's what drives me and my constituents crazy and i will defer all right supervisor gordy

[03:56:51] thank you madam chair um thank you guys for coming out um you know and thank you for hosting me at a couple of meetings down at both in Richmond to talk about strategies to how we're going to manage this growth. I'm just looking at the map here. There's 24 substations in my in my in the Brentsville district between route 28 and 66 and all of them are all but maybe three or four

[03:57:22] of them are for data on data center sites. So the the transmission requirements for all of this um are uh very challenging for our community as as you well know and so i appreciate the opportunity to discuss with you guys um a better approach a different approach to uh trying to address the the the demand uh by getting beyond just waiting on a load letter and then trying to

[03:57:59] figure how you get to there because if you the challenge we're having we literally we're looking at transmission lines, nearly crossing transmission lines. And so taking a more holistic approach is something that we must do given the concentration and the saturation of the demand within a very small area. Now on your page that you have in terms of Prince William County development, you talk about 24 projects that you currently have. What does all that include? Is that 24

[03:58:34] separate transmission projects or what does that include? So it's a range of things. So first and foremost, we look at our existing facilities to see if we can upgrade, as Cedric said, if we can upgrade those facilities to accommodate the load. In some cases, the line rating, how much carrying capacity that transmission line has matters on the technology that the conductor has used. So So even recently, if we rebuilt that line 15 years ago, maybe 20 years ago, newer technology allows us to use the same poles but just change out the wire.

[03:59:10] So some of those projects are simply that. Some of those projects are changing out substation equipment. Some of them are new substation and new transmission lines that are extending from the existing facilities, many of which we've talked about before.

[03:59:25] Right now, a lot of the projects are in the Innovation Park area where there was a saturation from the data center overlay district, which, again, if you go back, oh, gosh, 10 years ago, seven years ago, when the overlay was put in place, it did curb a lot of transmission growth and substation growth into the data center overlay district.

[03:59:48] Namely, we were able to keep a lot of that infrastructure within the Innovation Park area. But at the time, because I helped with some of those conversations, we said it's not going to be a forever or a panacea on infrastructure at large. At some point, the data center overlay district and especially Innovation Park is going to get oversaturated where it's going to need additional help from a reliability standpoint for managing reliability criteria, whether that's 300 megawatt rule or overloads or whatever the case may be.

[04:00:20] and we're going to have to bring new lines into that area, and sort of we've reached that point. New data centers have been approved. There's still interest in the market here, and since we have an obligation to serve, we have to figure out how best to do that.

[04:00:36] But it did stem infrastructure development for a number of years and kept it within the overlay. I think it's safe to say that that time has come where it needs help. Essentially, the overlay has sort of outlived its useful purpose because the infrastructure is no longer there.

[04:00:51] because we're let's just be honest is we're now pulling power from from um from noakesville we're pulling it from bent hill um in order to meet the demand that's in the in the overlay um so i think i think it's ran its course on how we could manage where the infrastructure goes i think uh given what's happening in northern virginia at large as well as in the county um yep i think there's going to be a lot more infrastructure needed to to to meet what's been approved um in terms of uh demand you you said you talked about 63 and uh uh basically load letters and but now the load

[04:01:30] is growing the load letters are shrinking but the numbers uh because now we're looking at 100 megawatt data centers um so based on where you are today the end once you get a receive a load letter what is the anticipated length of time required or that you anticipate actually meeting that demand at this point? Sure. So it's a great question because not all load letters that we received this year have the same in-service date. It's a good question. So they vary. Right now, we've let the industry know that it's going to take anywhere from four to seven years based on

[04:02:09] planning, public engagement, construction, permitting, soup to nuts. It's increased about 18 to 36 months, namely because of the density of what's happening in Virginia. We talked a lot about load growth, but also what's needing to be planned is all the generation that's happening in Virginia. We're the number one zone in PJM for renewables, and we have the number one amount of new generation spots in PJM. And so as that is making its way through their review process, the transmission system at whole is going to need to change. And so my organization has to do both.

[04:02:48] We serve load, but we also help Cedric and the generation folks deliver the megawatts. And so when you look at what's happening in Virginia, that dynamic on the system, not everything can be a priority. And so the length of some of this stuff needs to be paced down, and that's what we've said over the summer to the industry.

[04:03:08] It's situational. Some areas may see more of the four-year mark. Some may see the seven-year mark, but that's sort of the direction that we're headed in how we develop these projects moving forward. All right, so we're going to go on to Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[04:03:23] Just a few questions for me for this first round, and give me a second to bring them up. Are these for Cedric? They're going to move around a little bit, but I think that most of them are probably for Mr. Murray, so give me one second.

[04:03:43] If it doesn't violate your protocol, because my dad's still living, I'm just Bill. We've got the same name. He keeps Mr. for the time being. Bill, I appreciate that. So to go in a slightly different direction, as you're well aware, and the JLOC report talked about the ecosystem and sort of infused the fact that the BCA is obviously part of what needs to be sort of contemplated here, and knowing that a lot of these, especially the larger data center operators have corporate mandates for carbon neutrality,

[04:04:20] renewable energy, what have you. Just a quick question. This has been posed to you all in the past by our sustainability commission, so none of these questions should be new to you all. But if all data centers in Prince William County would seek contracts for zero carbon electricity by 2030, is it plausible for Dominion to bring enough new, beyond what you already have planned, zero carbon electricity online to meet the new demand?

[04:04:44] So let me back up. I was one of Dominion's two negotiators in the Clean Economy Act, so I'm pretty familiar with it. I am getting older, so that was almost five years ago. What I will say, the Clean Economy Act manages to a carbon-free grid by 2045 for Dominion with a notable caveat that if we feel an emitting unit, so a fossil unit, is needed for reliability when considering what's available on PJM, and I should mention here PJM, 13 state region, New Jersey to Chicago suburbs, down to our little part of North Carolina.

[04:05:19] If we feel it's needed, we can apply to our regulator and they say yes or no. A regulator in this case being the State Corporation Commission. I'm not aware of a 2030 standard. I should also hasten to add the Clean Economy Act applies to Dominion and it applies to APCO and that's it.

[04:05:36] So most of the data center growth you're seeing is in an area to which the Clean Economy Act does not apply. So that's just worth noting there. So there's different ways that people meet their carbon-free goals. You can do it as an electron transaction.

[04:05:55] So you can have, for example, on-site generation that is carbon-free and around the clock. Solar and wind are very valuable. We love solar. We're the plurality of solar in that 13-state region I just mentioned. We're very proud of that. We're a top ten state for solar now, in large part because of the maintenance efforts.

[04:06:14] Solar is not around the clock. So if you're talking about hourly matching, you would look at some type of around-the-clock carbon-free resource. And the only one I'm familiar with at any significant scale is nuclear. You may have read a couple months ago we did a memorandum of understanding with Amazon, one of the largest data center companies, to look at working together on deploying a small modular reactor.

[04:06:39] I hasten to add, those won't be available until the 2030s. So the other thing that some entities have done, and I'm just going to describe this without any kind of value judgment, what they've done is say, okay, we're going to buy on the market. So when you buy on the market, you're typically buying gas, and we're going to offset that with a renewable energy certificate.

[04:06:59] And it may be from a new resource or it may be from a longstanding resource like a hydro dam that was built in the 60s or 70s. So there's electron-level transactions, which is how I took your question, and then there's what I will call more the back-office accounting. Everything I showed you is kind of at the electron level.

[04:07:17] Appreciate that. And so also, neither the IRP nor the latest filing with the SEC contemplates a scenario in which data centers, to your point, those back-behind-the-scenes deals, those contracts, are sort of part of that.

[04:07:35] If there is such a large increase in the side contracts, the back-end contracts, the transactions where they then go and do the RECs behind the scenes and get those credits from somewhere else, how would that affect your resource plan in terms of your ability to meet the goals?

[04:07:52] That would come off the top. So we're not going to build something we don't need. We have some experience doing this, not for around-the-clock generation, but when we were in the early days of solar, to kind of prove out solar in Virginia and Cedric, know only enough to be dangerous. Stop me if I say anything wrong. Just kick me. We did a lot of ring-fenced solar, and that is to say we would sell solar whether to Oceana Naval Air Station or to the Navy. We would sell the output or to the Commonwealth of Virginia or individual private concerns, and basically it would be ring-fenced from other customers, and all the credits and

[04:08:30] debits would flow between us and that one customer. So we've got a lot of experience doing that. It worked well with solar it's certainly part of the answer and what i will say so i'm a nerd so i happen to know tokens and uh tolkien's birthday was november 2nd i love tolkien there is no one ring to rule them all in energy so everybody's a little right everything helps you've seen everything here from really big projects like our 2600 megawatt offshore wind project to up rates in the tens of megawatts we need it all we're interested in all of it I know I'm on time.

[04:09:02] You can go to your next, if you want to do another five minutes, let's go on Twitter. Sure. So I appreciate it, Madam Chair, because I'll just say this to your, I'll contrast your analogy here. You know, if we don't get this right, we'll become Mordor. And I don't want to become Mordor, right?

[04:09:17] Well said. We don't want to either. So that said, so I appreciate that. And I have concerns about you guys cutting off by the top, knowing that there's- We are, we're going to we're. Gotcha. Well, and I hasten to add, Supervisor, that when I say off the top, I mean for a new resource.

[04:09:34] In other words, you're both debiting and crediting at the same time. I'm not talking about in states that have deregulated, you have discussion of existing resources. That's not what I'm talking about. All right, Supervisor. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[04:09:50] I'll stay with Mr. Murray since he's already up there. Can you give me a sense of how or what the impact of purchase power agreements by large bulk users would be on the, well, two things. One, on cost allocations of transmission and other infrastructure costs, and two, how that impacts their ability to be green.

[04:10:17] Okay. So when I think of power purchase agreements, you may mean it in a different sense. The way I'm thinking of it, it's usually a transaction where you're buying a generation resource. Yeah. And so it'll all, as far as how it affects transmission, and if necessary, we'll yield back to Greg, it all depends on where you're buying it from.

[04:10:40] And I don't mean purporting here, where you're representing that you're buying it from. Yeah. And, again, whether you're doing an electron purchase or whether you're doing a back office transaction. Because a back office transaction, these renewable energy certificates, it's a perfectly legal, legitimate way to go about meeting sustainability goals.

[04:10:59] But that doesn't really involve transmission. It's a back office transaction. I'm not talking about the credits. I'm talking about the other one. So when you buy on the market, here would be my take on buying on the market. And I'll invite Cedric, who's a generation expert, to correct me here.

[04:11:15] He's also a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering. There is a finite amount of energy to buy on the market. By the market, I mean that PJM we referenced earlier. Thirteen states, three are probably what we call long on generation. Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania.

[04:11:32] West Virginia, Pennsylvania, that's probably sustainable Ohio. They have some data center demand there, particularly in the Columbus area. But those are the three states. So there is a finite amount of energy to import, whether the utility importing, the co-op import, whether Dominion importing, I should say, the cooperative importing, and as I understand, Novex generation, that's largely what they do.

[04:11:53] They've got a biomass plant near Danville, but mostly they buy on the market. To the extent an individual customer is buying on the market without creating a new power plan or some kind of, you know, behind-the-meter arrangement like what we were just discussing with Supervisor Bodie, you're not adding energy by buying on the market.

[04:12:12] You're simply reducing what's available for either us or the cooperative. The question is, with the payment for that, how does that impact the cost allocation of the infrastructure, or does it? Well, it doesn't, is the short answer. Okay. Okay. I'm kind of surprised.

[04:12:27] Well, on the generation side, so I should note, Virginia is unusual in that we are a fully regulated state with the notable exception that customers above five megawatts, which is substantially all data centers, are able to shop on the market if they choose to.

[04:12:44] Now, if they do that, they've got to stay out for five years. Okay. And we still need to be ready to serve them if they come back. And that was part of the JLARC report also, that it creates some risk for cost shifting other customers. I do have a question for Mr. Green. or two. You know, there's been a lot of talk about SMRs recently. My understanding is that at present, the max generation capacity of your typical SMR as planned is 300 megawatts. Now I'm hearing that they're not probably commercially viable until the mid-30s, which again, I have

[04:13:18] been saying for quite some time. If that is the case, and they're only going to generate 300 megawatts of power, what real value is that to Dominion when that's the equivalent of the supply to one substation, one distribution node. And if you're only doing it on a test basis or a trial basis, and you're doing it ostensibly with the military, I'll take Quantico as an example, and you're putting the SMR on the base and the power goes out, the people in the service area

[04:13:55] aren't going to see that. I'm assuming that Quantico is going to claim it all to keep base operations going. Could you comment on those two aspects? Yes. So I guess a couple of things, i guess kind of taking a step back um as relates to small modular reactors um there is there continues to be a lot of research on you know which which technology will become commercially viable but there is no commercially viable one presently that's right so so you know um so we are we're working with uh other vendors suppliers looking at uh you know light water uh technology

[04:14:32] other advanced reactor technology, and, you know, the industry as a whole is working to figure all that out. So, you know, we see it as a really good opportunity.

[04:14:49] You know, Bill mentioned earlier in his comments, one of the things we're well aware of is it is, you know, to make an investment like that, it is very capital intensive. And I guess that's kind of my point, because if it's only going to generate 300 megawatts, and I've got a 600 megawatt load from a data center that wants to use SMRs, not only do I have a data center 100 feet from somebody's residential house, then I've got two nuclear reactors 100 feet from their house.

[04:15:21] And I don't want to be on this board when that has to get approved. Well, and just, you know, for your awareness, we, as we kind of go down this path, you know, we see our North Anna site as, you know, I would say the number one site, if we move forward with SMRs, it will be actually there.

[04:15:43] One, because we've explored new nuclear there before, but a lot of the infrastructure to include, you know, transmission is there as well on site. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you. - Don't leave, Sandra, don't leave.

[04:15:59] Thank y'all for coming. Thank y'all for coming tonight. This is very interesting to help us to kind of work through some things. And to my wonderful resident, I'm glad that you're here. Thank you, Ms. Yolanda Green, yes. I'm glad that you spoke about Possum Point 'cause you know that's my baby.

[04:16:20] I inherited it, I'm so excited. But I got three questions. One is you talked about upgrades quite a bit, and I'm a Marine Corps wife, so I remember Cole Ash and Cole a lot from Quantico.

[04:16:39] So what are, and you gave some examples. When you talk about upgrades and leveraging technology, are we looking at, or can you say, no, are we looking at potentially similar upgrades at Possum Point that you cited in your presentation?

[04:17:00] Absolutely. So so we've actually gotten approval, you know, for, you know, from what we call our investment review committee, who kind of looks at looks at, you know, what we call these more mega projects, these more mega investments.

[04:17:17] And so, yes, so we are we are. So at Possum Point, General Electric GE is actually the original equipment manufacturer for the two combustion turbines that we have there. uh as well as the steam turbine so uh we have worked closely with um with ge and ge actually has uh an upright package designed specifically for those those two machines and and that's what we're moving forward on it is it is proven technology uh and and and so um and yes we've

[04:17:56] done it at other stations but it's proven technology so we are confident that one um you know we're going to get more output as i mentioned roughly about 10 additional megawatts out of each of those two combustion turbines that are there but one of the other benefits of this uh of this upgrade is uh um flexibility right so so um you know when i talked earlier about solar generation um you know one of the things that's really important for our gas turbines is is you know they've got to be able to adapt to you know when solar generation comes online or

[04:18:34] could be wind and so uh these upgrades will also give us or give us the ability to lower the turn down on an engine so if we have a day like today where it's overcast all of a sudden the clouds go away and we have a lot of solar generation on the system this this investment that we're making will also be able to turn down those those gas turbines lower staying in compliance uh uh emissions compliance uh for for nitrous oxide for carbon monoxide the the technology is proven so um so

[04:19:08] absolutely we're we're gonna make we're gonna make those investments the other the other one uh you know i mentioned the the steam turbine right so so we are we're working with a with another supplier and we're looking to do a retrofit of two sections of the steam turbine is actually a better design, so we're going to get more life out of the asset.

[04:19:36] But the stages, they actually add stages to the turbine so that it will do more work and produce more output. Output. So, Cedric, that won't, and I know we're talking high level and all that, But one of the things that I'm very sensitive to when we're talking this high-level stuff and how it's going to affect everything are my citizens.

[04:20:02] And keeping them informed and keeping them abreast of the changes and the updates and the leveraging that we're doing so they can feel comfortable as we go about doing this.

[04:20:17] And I know that's in the weeds a lot, but I'm just making that presentation to you, because it will be a change, and how you go about making that change will affect their lives as well, you know, logistically and physically, so just, yeah.

[04:20:39] Yes, thank you for that feedback, absolutely, I mean, we, you know, we're always open to sharing, you know, what we're doing, so, you know, if we have those opportunities, Yeah, because the transparency of that is very important as much as you can.

[04:21:00] We have some breaking news on that. Breaking news. Thank you for the opportunity. I had just had Friday a meeting for all the residents who lived on Possum Point, invited them all, as well as I invited people from the county. And we had people from the county.

[04:21:15] We had people from McPike's office on the phone. So several people came because I invited everybody to make sure that they understood because my neighbors had lots of questions, wanted to know what the white building was that was down the street to understand the water treatment facility and et cetera.

[04:21:32] So we did have quite a few. And then I had a couple of conversations while I was outside with some of the county because they want to more, want to come out to see it. So we are working on that. So thank you. No, thank you. And Cedric, I asked that question, so she would get up and give that answer to absolutely for our residents that are online.

[04:21:51] So the last thing that I... Hold on. We're going to, I'm so sorry. You're out of time. No, you might have to go a second round. That's okay. Go a second round. But what I want to say, I just want to do a quick time check. And this is a really important topic, particularly since the JLARC report came out just yesterday.

[04:22:09] I would like to take a quick vote to waive the rules so we can keep the discussion going. So moved. Second. All right. Do we just, you know, I think most of them. Bailey, how do you feel? Voice vote? All right.

[04:22:25] Weir? Voting? Yes. Angry? I say yay? Yeah, all right. So it is 6:15. We're going to continue the discussion going just a little bit longer. I would say maybe enough for everyone who really wants to get a third round in. Depending on time, we're going to do supervisor's time. Depending on time, we're going to have to move the closed meeting until after our public hearings, more than likely. So, all right. Thank you very much. I'm sorry. Who is next in queue is Supervisor

[04:22:58] Gordy. All right. Generation. A little bit of a transmission. So I'm just going to lay something out and you tell me where I'm wrong or kind of what you're seeing going into the future. So we have a challenge of transmission just simply due to sure proximity. You also have a problem of generation. Can't meet the demand based upon current generation. So we've got to grow both

[04:23:32] over time. With the concentration of data centers in this area, I've already been approached about, well, what about putting a gas power plant in western Prince William County? So for the people of western Prince William, that's now insult to injury, because not only do they now have to deal with the data centers, now they've got a power plant in their backyard. At the same time, based upon the comments earlier, data centers are looking at a seven-year potential wait, and they don't

[04:24:08] want to wait. So as we are already seeing, they're looking at trying to provide their own power solutions. And I anticipate that once SMRs do become commercially viable, they're going to be at the head of the line to buy them because I have more money. So then the question then becomes, if they're not hooking to the grid, who regulates? Who? I mean, no, I'm, let me lay this out. So,

[04:24:44] So, no, I am trying to anticipate future challenge. And so what I'm looking at is an industry that has more money than the government. They can buy their own power.

[04:25:01] They can cite their own power. They don't need you anymore. And at that point, who's on the hook for all the investments that had been made to facilitate it to that point?

[04:25:17] So as I'm looking at Western Prince William County in particular, what do you anticipate our future looking like? Let me start with your gas plant reference. And, Cedric, feel free.

[04:25:34] I don't claim to know everything going on at Dominion. I am on the Investment Review Committee. He referenced there is no secret Western Prince William natural gas plant that we are working on, among other reasons. No, I didn't say it was secret. Or secret or otherwise. I'm reasonably familiar with what we plan to do in the next 15 years, and certainly in a 15-year IRP, you don't fill in every project.

[04:25:58] An important thing in sighting a natural gas plant is you actually need to be able to get natural gas to fuel it, or it's not a very useful natural gas plant. And while I don't have Greg Workman, our head of fuels here, I don't think that if you were to look to sight a natural gas plant in Virginia, Western Prince William would be high on your list, both for gas supply reasons, but also Northern Virginia, as you all know better than I, always is right on the borderline of being a non-attainment area for nots.

[04:26:29] And that, again, would be something that would move against signing a plant there. So there is no natural gas plant in Western Prince William proposed by us. Can't speak for others. For nuclear plants, whether it's us, a data center concern, or someone else, if you want to build a power plant in Virginia, you need to file a certificate of public convenience and necessity.

[04:26:52] You need to be regulated by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. You need to site and operate that plant in accordance with a very exhaustive set of regulations. I think it is fair to say the nuclear business, we've been in that business since 1972, is not a friendly business to new entrants in terms of the regulatory climate.

[04:27:10] It is appropriately challenging for longstanding nuclear operators, and we like to think of ourselves as one of the best, if not the best, nuclear operators in the country. It is not something you just jump into because you've got a bunch of money. So we feel like we have a good site for our first test of modules.

[04:27:28] And go back to a question from Supervisor Weir earlier. If you build one or two small modular reactors in the United States or even in our service territory long term, that probably is not particularly material. We've talked about the small and small modular reactors. Modular is an important word because the whole problem of small modular reactors is rather than being custom-built like traditional reactors were in the 70s and 80s, they can be mass-produced.

[04:27:53] Now, what mass-produced is in the case of nuclear units is in the eye of the beholder. I'll use an example of naval destroyers. The Navy built or is going to build more than 80 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. Huge success. They built three Zumwalt-class destroyers. Huge failure.

[04:28:08] Neat ships, but so expensive on a per-unit basis. They had to take the guns out of the ship because they can't afford the shells at a million each. So the modular is a very important word there. Did I get all your questions? I just feel like we're living in a bubble right now in terms of we're anticipating everything based on what we've always known.

[04:28:33] But what we've always known is going to change, and it is changing. And so my concern is that while we're sort of whistling past the graveyard here, And that, you know, while we're arguing over and trying to figure out how in the world we're going to provide all this power to data, data is not going to wait on us.

[04:28:55] And so that becomes my concern in how we what's the next shoe to drop, because it seems like every six months there's a new shoe to drop with these guys.

[04:29:08] And so and then and then, you know, the balance between meeting the generation while trying to mitigate the impacts of transmission, which in very concentrated areas like my district is how, you know, the in looking at what's the most cost efficient means of delivering that power with the least amount of disruption to the residents.

[04:29:37] and so it's it's very much a balancing act it is very complex um and and and all i can say is thank you for keeping an open dialogue and an open door because i feel like we're going to have to have more of these conversations going forward so i can answer directly on the generation part of your question and then we'll yield to greg on the transfer the four to seven time year of time frame is primarily transmission planning driven. I have worked and so has Cedric on a lot of new power plants of various types. I am not familiar with one that no matter how much

[04:30:15] money you have, you can go ahead and say, you know, I don't want to wait four to seven years, I'm going to build my own power plant. It's going to take you longer than seven years if you start today to do that. And that's something, here again, it's a challenging circumstance and it should be decide a power plant we've got a lot of experience more than 100 years doing that if you're brand new to it it doesn't make it go faster all right thank you guys i'll just add that same conversation is happening at FERC and happening at at PGM uh so i'm not nuts you're

[04:30:50] i don't know about all that uh but but what i'll say is uh and maybe this because i live in the transmission world is reliability is key and providing value to our customers is on the utmost important are existing customers and future customers. And so the conversation around co-located load or behind the meter load, you also have to balance that out with Dominion Energy has 99.99% reliability. That means that there is virtually zero power outages that are happening in Virginia. I know we have power outages. I get it. But if you look at over a year aggregate,

[04:31:28] reliability is 99.9% of the time, and our rates are 15% lower than the national average. That only happens because you have a grid that has mass utility, and then you have a generation fleet that has the transmission network that allows you to have efficient and cost-effective means to wield that power.

[04:31:46] So that's how the network works now. It's sometimes funny to think what's old is new again is you go back at the turn of when electricity just became and the novelty of power plants, it used to be block by block, right?

[04:32:02] In New York City, it used to be block by block. And then someone had a great idea of like, hey, let's do mass plants with transmission and maybe we can get some efficiencies out of that. And that's the system that we have today. To go backwards is a conversation that's happening. I'll say that most likely, though, a lot of the conversation is usually that this co-located load will also be connected to the grid because at some point the generation has to go down for maintenance so it's not always going to be on and and so the transmission is the only way that you have that backup or that reliability that you need 24 hours a day all right um we're close to 6 30

[04:32:41] so everyone who has still has questions in the queue i'm going to let you say your piece and we're going to move on so are you good gordy you good all right we're going to go over to weir

[04:32:50] All right. Supervisor Bailey. Yeah. So real quick, Gordy does that technical stuff. I just do the basic. So my question is, and I'm not quite sure how to word it, but as we go forth, what opportunities are there for future energy storage? You know, what solutions are there for our county when it relates to efficiency land use? What does that look like?

[04:33:27] Thank you, Supervisor Bailey. So probably the first thing that comes to mind, again, very familiar with what's going on at Possum Point. We do see opportunities for, you know, battery storage.

[04:33:50] Well, it's, you know, the technology that's out there now that's commercially viable is the four-hour batteries, the lithium-ion batteries. And earlier in the conversation I mentioned, you know, we will be piloting some longer-duration batteries.

[04:34:05] But really right now it's the four-hour battery. And so we've talked a number of times about PJM. We're actually going through the Q process for potentially battery storage at the Possum Point site.

[04:34:23] You know, and we're looking at, you know, in the Q as much as 500 megawatts of battery storage, you know, there on site. So it's, you know, we're going through that process. But we do, you know, we do see that site as, again, you know, a great location.

[04:34:45] One, as I said, because of the Lowe Center. And, you know, as Bill mentioned, you know, it is in a non-attainment area. And so Nazi missions, all those sorts of things creates a challenge for us.

[04:35:02] So we're definitely exploring that, my team, as well as our business development group. Thank you, and thanks for coming. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right, I got Weir and Bodie. Madam Chair, I'll go quick, although I could do this for another couple of hours.

[04:35:19] Greg, can I ask you a couple of more questions real quick? You know, I'm looking at the JLARC report and I'm looking at the PJM reports, and they're both pretty consistent that over the next decade they're expecting a 2x load growth demand or load demand growth. Given the current stress on the transmission system, not even anticipating what's still in the pipeline in terms of applications, what is the likelihood of Dominion actually

[04:35:54] physically being able to address that transmission demand at that level in the next decade? Or are we looking at you having to tell the industry, oh, I'm sorry, it's not seven years, it's 14 years or 25 years or never? It's not without its challenges, but we have a lot of work to do.

[04:36:15] And that's what we do. We have a great transmission organization. We've been staffing up over the last two years. Can it be done? We've committed to making it happen. So our commitment to our customers, our commitment to our regulators, and our commitment to PJM when we put in for these projects is that we can get it done on time in the manner that we've said while limiting impacts along the way.

[04:36:42] If the load, the question is, if the load continues to grow as projected, what is the, do you have a projected timeline for supply? So the great thing about the forecast and how PGM redid the forecast between 2022 and 2023 is that we have a more accurate method of forecasting.

[04:37:04] If PGM kept with the old methodology, we wouldn't have had this line of sight into what was happening, right? So although the line graph is scary, it allows us to plan better. It allows generations to plan better. And we know that the load is materializing because we have those peak days.

[04:37:21] And so the commitment is there because we have the line of sight into it. Two real quick questions, again, for you. Please settle this once and for all. I have asked this question of you multiple times. You have been consistent in the answer, so I'll expect you to give me the same answer because Dominion has given it to me many times, but JLARC apparently has a different version of the answer.

[04:37:44] Who pays for a substation in the Dominion Service Territory? Does Dominion pay for it and pass the cost on it, and socialize the cost across the ratepayers, or does the end user? So as we've talked about this, a substation has broad utility, and so the allocation of that cost is by rate class to all of our customers.

[04:38:03] So it's socialized across the ratepayer base. Correct. Would you please tell that to JLARC? As Bill talked about, though, each cost of service, the generation, transmission, and distribution, has its own mechanism for recovering those costs. I get it, but there's a fundamental disconnect between you and JLARC.

[04:38:20] You're saying that, JLARC's saying that the data center pays for the substation as a capital cost. I haven't read that section in detail, so I'll have to go back to you on that. Yeah, it was repeated. In broad terms, what Bill talked about around the mechanism of paying costs up front to distribution for some of that work.

[04:38:40] I'm talking capital costs. And then the transmission side is that. One last question. How many masters can a 500 kV line serve? Because we've had this, I can remember Harrison Potter stating unequivocally, that line is tapped out, yet I keep seeing substation after substation after substation added to it in perpetuity.

[04:39:03] When does it run out? And so that's why we have projects to bolster the network. And so I think we've talked about some of the projects that came out of PJM's open window process last year, which adds a third 500 into NOVA. as well as taking two more 500s coming over the Potomac from Maryland.

[04:39:22] And then this open window, if everything gets approved as sort of anticipated, we'll have additional 500 coming up, as well as that new 765. I would simply note that your current projects tie into that same overtaxed line. So the additional lines that are coming in is supposed to resolve those.

[04:39:41] Then you need to make that part of your presentation. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Happy to do so. Supervisor Bodhi. Thank you, Madam Chair. Not sure who this goes to, so everyone be on standby. Corollary to that, I guess my question slash concern, Suraz Gordy has spoken to it, Suraz Rear has spoken to it, we're in a situation now where we have an industry, and frankly technology, not just faulting this industry in particular, but the demand that they serve,

[04:40:17] the fact that even five years ago, AI didn't exist in how we understand it now and how that's become a leading driver of the energy costs. We don't know what we don't know, to Supervisor Gordy's point earlier. How does the emergence of AI and, frankly, the evolving of AI, even over the last year, play into your forecasts here?

[04:40:42] So with AI, what I will say just in the interest of time, there's an advantage and a disadvantage. The disadvantage, bigger demand in general. Advantage, more flexibility on where you site it. Traditional data centers, non-AI data centers, for lack of a better way of saying it, have a strong latency requirement, need to be located near fiber, have, because of latency, a desire to be located near one another.

[04:41:08] That is much less of an issue with AI data centers. So you have more flexibility on where you site them in terms of locality, even in terms of region. And so that is an advantage. And then just an umbrella point I want to make for all of the questions that you all have had is, I've got here, you may think this is not a good IRP, that you would do the generation portfolio different.

[04:41:33] I hear, for example, varying degrees on nuclear, with which I respectfully disagree. We are an integrated utility. When the lights go out, there is, for our, for the blue dots, I'm talking here, one neck to choke, ours, as our president, Mr. Bain, who grew up on a farm, likes to say.

[04:41:49] In a deregulated state, and that is most of PJM, the plan is we're going to buy on the market. This is a lot better. We can have an informed discussion. We've had an informed discussion tonight. We can agree to disagree on the particular elements of plan. We have a plan.

[04:42:05] We have a long record. We've been serving data centers, again, not since last year, for over a decade. We've had a long history of, I'm going to use another headband phrase, you tell them, answering the bell. Winter Storm Elliott came. Utilities to our south dropped significant load.

[04:42:20] We didn't drop anybody. we answer the bell we provide reliable service at below the national average we've been doing that not just for a little bit we've been doing that for our whole history appreciate that and just one more question than the comment madam chair um so as we continue to talk about the nuances and difference between the recs and the ppas and these electron following deals versus the back room deals um and knowing that to the point earlier we're not the only game in town anymore And a back office.

[04:42:50] Back office. So one is a financial transaction, one is actual electrons. And what we're doing in the planning world, we deal in actual electrons. Electrons, right. Sorry, and to that point, as, again, new markets have emerged, you know, South Side, Central Virginia, what have you, are there other regions in Virginia or, frankly, broader in your service area They're looking at incentive packages to look at driving more of these folks towards the free, the renewable energy market,

[04:43:24] and doing more PPAs over RECs because, frankly, to the point earlier, RECs are great as sort of a feel-good thing, but if there's no new generation coming up and running, you're just basically borrowing generation from somewhere else. So I don't want to speak for the data center industry.

[04:43:41] I have been to enough conferences, as you might imagine, all of us do right many data center panels these days, usually with a utility person. The concept that is increasingly part of the commitment for technology customers or large customers generally, some are steel manufacturers, not just data centers, is a concept called additionality.

[04:43:59] In other words, we're adding something new that is carbon-free that wouldn't be here absent our financial commitment. And again, I'm talking about a regulated state. regulated states you get into i want to take a power plant that has been around a long time and i want to buy it that's not what's going on here in virginia sure and the last thing with my last 36 seconds and change madam chairs i appreciate the time gentlemen i really do i know you guys get grilled especially by the my seat mate to the left here um i will what what i'll say though is again at the end of the day this has been such a quickly evolving industry with so many additional demands, and to Zora Gordy's point earlier,

[04:44:38] we know that they have, your point on resources getting over those regulatory hurdles of getting a power plant up and running are there, but we also know that these folks pay massive amounts of money for consultants, for lawyers, for lobbies to change those dynamics. So I hope we're all eyes wide open in that dynamic too.

[04:44:56] I will just say that siting a power plant is a classic example of federalism because there is a federal, a state, and a local role, and you need to navigate all those. The integrated utility model is a proven way of doing that in a way that works for everybody. All right, thank you guys so very much.

[04:45:15] I appreciate you, Bill, Greg, Cedric, and Yolanda, even though you didn't get grilled, you know. You just introduced everyone. I mean, yeah, Bill's tall enough to camouflage her. But thank you guys so very much for taking our questions again, particularly after JLARC.

[04:45:32] We had a lot of questions, and this is a very important conversation. given Prince William County's, you know, the number of data centers that we have coming to our county and that have already been cited. So this is an important conversation, one that need to be had. One that need to be had.

[04:45:48] I see all guys are standing up and ready to go. So I salute you. You may leave. Don't say that, okay? To be continued. Thank you for your partnership and happy holidays. Thank you. I've got to go to my own meeting, so I've got to go. I was going to say, if you can hit the button to turn off the mics, all right?

[04:46:06] so it is yeah i know you come here and i'm giving instructions it is 6 40 uh or 6 39 6 40 we'll just go with that um i'm going to move supervisors time and close meeting until after um the public hearing so people have a chance to um catch a breath eat a little bit of something make some calls do what are we gonna do before the seven o'clock so i just want to let everyone know that

[04:46:29] i am making that change since this went over thank you so very much i mean because folks ain't listening. All right. It's important that everyone take a seat so that we can begin. This is not a me rule. This is a fire marshal rule. And we're about to get started. So everyone needs to have a seat because this is a fire marshal rule. So if you're still standing, you need to have a seat.

[04:47:09] I've banged the gavel. I'm going to bang it again. All right. Thank you. We are going to start.

[04:47:36] Hold on with. All right. We're going to start with 13A, which is a rezoning for Gibson Crossing. i am going to invite the applicant up thank you very much good evening my name is jessica pfeiffer with walsh koluchy lubali and walsh here on behalf of the applicant the franklin group

[04:48:14] here with me tonight is james noel with the franklin group um the franklin group is the contract purchaser of the property and the applicant for this rezoning also with me is bill pile our civil engineer with bowman's consulting michael young our traffic consultant with Bowman Consulting and Janelle Cameron.

[04:48:34] The property is located southeast from the intersection of Hoadley Road and Route 234 north of Colgan High School in the Coles Magisterial District. The property is approximately 8.7 acres, and the proposal is a rezoning to PMR Planned Mixed Residential for a maximum of 192 senior multifamily homes.

[04:48:55] The existing zoning is B2 Neighborhood Commercial in connection with the proffers associated with the Geisler property, which was approved in 2019. The comprehensive plan designation is MU-4, mixed use with a transect of 4, which is in line with the proposal. T-4 is 4 to 8 stories in height and 8 to 24 dwelling units per acre. This proposal is just under 22 dwelling units per acre. The applicants started this process more than three years ago when they worked through the comprehensive plan designation, which ultimately was a change

[04:49:33] that was made and incorporated into the comprehensive plan update, which was approved by the board in December 2022. The property was previously designated NC, Neighborhood Commercial, and SRR, Suburban Residential Rural. The board confirmed with the comprehensive plan update that this is what they want to see on the property. This is the Geisler property entitlement which permits a maximum of 12,900 square feet of shopping center and a nursing and convalescent care facility of a maximum of

[04:50:08] 200 beds and 73,500 square feet. The proposed rezoning is significantly less intense and less vehicle trips than this. This is our illustrative plan. The proposal is two buildings approximately four stories in height. Access is from Route 234 in the location that you see here. We have moved the access as far south as possible from the Route 234 Hoadley Road intersection, which is a positive to county transportation and VDOT. The applicant is proposing a number of amenities, which I will

[04:50:47] share with you. In terms of buffers and landscaping, a 20-foot highway corridor overlay district buffer is provided along Route 234, and then 30-foot buffers are provided on all sides except for one location, which I will walk you through. For parking, the property is over-parked to allow for visitors and minimal parking issues. No parking modification or reduction is needed, and in addition, the applicant has committed to a parking management plan. The applicant has proffered a minimum of 10% of the units will be affordable dwelling units. The applicant worked closely with

[04:51:24] staff on the layout before you this evening. This slide compares the layout included with the initial submission in May 2023 with the current layout. Staff provided comments suggesting more compact and slightly taller buildings to accommodate less impervious area, more and better located amenities, and more open space. The current plan is an 11.5 percent decrease in impervious from the original plan. This resulted in a better layout with a minimal increase in height, really only approximately six feet due to the design of the roof. These are our open space and amenities. What

[04:52:02] you see here is a grilling area, a gazebo and benches, with an existing stormwater management pond which will likely have some type of feature like a small mill or a fountain, a garden and grilling area, a half mile walking trail, and fitness stations. In terms of pedestrian connectivity, we're providing sidewalk along our Route 234 frontage and sidewalks in the fitness trail on site. In addition, we have worked with county transportation and committed to a monetary contribution for pedestrian facilities. There is a planned larger STARS study for the Route 234

[04:52:38] Hoadley Road intersection being done by VDOT with county transportation as the largest stakeholder. And that study will look at pedestrian facilities and improvements in the larger area. So it was the preference for the applicant to provide a monetary contribution to be used in connection with the recommendations of that study. We have also committed to work and continue coordination with Prince William County Schools on a possible connection to Colgan High School in the general

[04:53:10] location shown right there. For bicycle amenities, the applicant has committed to indoor and outdoor bike storage and amenities. Indoor amenities are in both buildings and outdoor bike racks are near the entrances for both buildings indoor amenities include fitness center game room and a resident club room this is the building and the associated building materials the building does have high

[04:53:47] quality building materials as you can see here the building was designed to feature materials that add to the depth color and overall fenestration and since the planning commission hearing The applicant has increased the amount of brick to a minimum of 35%. It was previously 15%.

[04:54:03] The materials are used in ways to provide both vertical and horizontal articulation. And the roof is unique with the pitch. Materials are asphalt, shingle, and metal, dormers, and gables. And that's why we say this building is more akin to a three-and-a-half-story building because that top floor is under roof.

[04:54:27] This is a trip generation comparison comparing the Geisler property, What is permitted on the property today with our proposal, there is a significant reduction in trips between the two. The reduction in trips are at the a.m. peak hour, the p.m. peak hour, and average weekday.

[04:54:46] Even though it was not required with this rezoning, the applicant did do a traffic impact analysis. They hired Bowman Consulting to scope, take counts, and prepare a TIA so that we could fully address transportation. applicant is proposing a right turn lane and taper at the entrance which will be a right in right out onto route 234 and as i mentioned previously we have moved the access as far south as possible to avoid conflicts with route 234 and the holy road intersection since the planning commission

[04:55:25] we have prepared a couple view shed renderings that i wanted to walk you through this first one shows gibson crossing from route 234 the building is more than 170 feet from route 234 and between the road and the building is a six foot sidewalk being constructed by the applicant a large power line easement a 20-foot highway corridor overlay district buffer parking and a travel way and as you can see here which is similar for colgan high school route 234 sits above where colgan high

[04:55:58] school is and will also sit above although less drastic sit above where gibson crossing buildings would be located and then this is a view shed rendering from the property to the east of gibson crossing we shared this with that property owner so that they could visualize the distance existing trees proposed landscaping and grade between their home and the proposed building the applicant and this property owner met and will continue conversations regarding the proposal moving forward we also prepared a view shed rendering from these two homes on hoadley road

[04:56:34] the first one circled here is 7819 hoadley road and from building to building the distance is approximately 245 feet in between the buildings are existing trees open space and a proposed 30 foot type b buffer this property owner asked if we could provide an eight foot privacy fence along the entire northern property line on the Gibson Crossing property, so on our property.

[04:57:02] And this has been included in the proffers, and you can see it here on this rendering. And this property line for context is approximately 1,100 feet long. This is the other home that we provided a viewshed rendering from on the north side of the property.

[04:57:21] From building to building, the distance is approximately 200 feet in this location. Between the home in this location and Gibson Crossing are existing trees, including vegetation on the old Hoadley Road roadbed, which is a long, skinny parcel in between the two that is now vegetation and open space and is also owned by this property owner.

[04:57:46] There is a boundary line adjustment in this area that was requested by this property owner and agreed to by the applicant. In this location, there is one area where the buffer on the Gibson Crossing property does need to be modified to 15 feet at the narrowest point.

[04:58:04] This modification does not encumber this property owner's boundary line adjustment and is acceptable to staff due to the unusual nature and the history of that boundary line adjustment. The buffer cannot be moved any closer to Gibson Crossing building because of the emergency access that is in this location.

[04:58:25] this has the appearance of open space as it is grasscrete which is acceptable for that emergency access this is the buffer modification area and this is from our design guidelines the applicant is only asking for this modification in this area right here that boundary line adjustment is this wedge piece that you see here which again in the widest portion of the boundary line adjustment results in a 15-foot buffer on the Gibson Crossing property. The applicant also offered to do additional plantings on that adjacent property owner's property. She does not

[04:59:04] wish to have any additional plantings, and that has been removed from the proffers. The applicant has worked with MIDCO on the comprehensive plan amendment, on the comprehensive plan update, and on the rezoning. We have met with them four times. The applicant has worked with the adjacent property owners on screening, landscaping, fencing, view sheds, and the boundary line adjustments that were previously agreed to by the Geisler property rezoning. And the applicant, as you can see from the changes in the layout from the original to the current, has worked

[04:59:40] extensively with staff. I am available for any questions. All right. Does anyone have any questions for the applicant? All right. I'm going to invite staff up now. Good evening, Members of the board, Scott Meyer and the planning office.

[05:00:15] I'm very familiar with the site because I did the Geisler property as well. So I have a whole decade of planning review on this parcel. But this is the previous Geisler site. It's now Gibson Crossing.

[05:00:32] And bottom line is there's been considerable reduction in the trips, over 2,200 per day. It is now an all-residential product. So, again, to recap, the request is to rezone the 8.74 acres from B2 to PMR, Plan Mixed Residential, for up to 192 age-restricted multifamily units.

[05:00:56] Just to point out here, this is the parcel. This piece here on the right is also a part of the parcel, but that's not included in this rezoning. Again, this is the old roadbed that Ms. Pfeiffer was talking about from before, But this is also, with that G-PIN, but the area being rezoned is just the contiguous 8.74 acres.

[05:01:20] Staff is recommending approval. With the latest comprehensive plan, this area was actually commercial and lower-density residential. With the new comprehensive plan, it's actually MEU-4. that's why we recommended and encouraged a higher height because there's also a proffered height limitation of 60 feet but in MU4 you can go up to actually eight stories so we felt that this was a reasonable trade-off we also get less impervious area there's two converging eight highway quarter overlay districts again you have holy road here and dumfries road here and thus

[05:01:58] That gives rise to the 20-foot HCOD buffer along the front that's being proposed right here, which is east of the power lines. This is the site that's shown right here. There will be two buildings, again, with amenities on the site.

[05:02:14] And this is a revised survey concurrent with this. There's also the boundary line adjustment, which was not implemented with the Geisler project because it was tied into implementation of the project. That was never built, but the applicant's representative is doing that concurrently.

[05:02:34] This is the boundary line adjustment, which is on the Eller property to the north. It's conveying, and also you have an area over here as well. So this is just showing, again, a closer look. There's the buffer modifications along the northern boundary.

[05:02:53] Staff OEs, our requirement is a 30-foot buffer. That is a weakness. We feel it's justifiable what we always want to have full buffers. But we feel like in this case, given the layout, we have to look at all sides of the application and all facets of it.

[05:03:09] But the buffer modifications on the north side, the 30-foot buffers on all other sides of the product of the project area. And you have the school site, Colgan High School to the south. This is, again, the gray is showing the boundary line adjustment area.

[05:03:26] This is the layout, which, you know, you've seen. There was a lot of debate over the quality of the design. This came up at Planning Commission. The applicant has responded with committing to a minimum of a 35% building facade to be more brick masonry.

[05:03:48] Also, you'll see a variety of building materials and fenestration with the windows and so forth. This is showing the boundary line adjustment. There also was a DCSM waiver for the turning lane going into the site.

[05:04:08] There was also an access management exception, which at the time when the staff report was published, it was not approved. We don't officially have that yet from VDOT, but VDOT has verbally expressed it. They were able to support it. we have transportation staff here that can clarify if needed and answer any questions Ms. Pfeiffer talked about the amenities on the site one of the issues that also came up at planning commission was the concern about well water contamination that was looked at the applicant did not make that change they're here to address the actual reasons why but it's

[05:04:43] going to be connected to public water and public sewer we feel that you know that was looked at and that was not ultimately needed staff is recommending approval planning commission recommended approval the applicant has responded with updates and we're supporting the application because it implements directly the mu mixed use community mixed use land designation it allows for a cohesive age-restricted residential community that's a big thing in the county we also look for affordability also affordable aspect with senior housing is a very positive

[05:05:23] feature of this there's a specific layout it also fulfills the demand for housing and it's consistent with the strategic plan and with that I'll be happy to answer any questions and again we have transportation staff here and the applicant as well thank you very much All right, quickly, Supervisor Franklin.

[05:05:40] Just a couple of questions. I know it's age-restricted. Is it income-restricted on any parts? Yes, yeah, it is through the proffers. Proffer, excuse me, number six, 10 units earning up to 80% AMI and 10 units earning up to 120% AMI.

[05:06:03] Sure, yeah, and the only reason I mention that is because I think it's good that we're doing more senior housing across the county, But we also need to just keep in mind that our seniors oftentimes are limited in income as well. And so making sure that we're truly doing affordable housing when it comes to our senior citizens also.

[05:06:23] Also, so the comp plan, I think this is in here. How is the comp plan designating this particular parcel? It's community mixed use. Okay, that's what the comp, okay. Correct. So we're essentially changing it to what it is. Yes. Perfect, thank you. You're welcome. I have a quick question. Maybe I should have asked the applicant, but because we are dealing with senior housing, is any of this ADA compliant? I'll let the applicant address it. Yes, it will be ADA

[05:06:58] compliant. That's an easy answer. Thank you. And I just want to verify because that's something we've talked about a little bit on the board, not just affordability, but making sure things are accessible. So all the units are ADA compliant or some or most? I think that what I'm hearing is it depends where within the building so some of the units might have a little bit more accessibility just depending on where they are these are elevator units so they are accessible from that respect and then they're all going to be ada compliant all right i appreciate it thank you so

[05:07:33] very much we don't have any other questions so i am going to open the public hearing for 13a i have three people signed up in person I have Betty Jean Eller Jason Hickman and Tim Nelson if y'all can make your way to the back and you're gonna have three minutes oh to the back sorry could someone Alex can you turn off the mic thank you so what we're gonna do and mr. Tim Nelson are you in the room all

[05:08:10] right you're right there by the mic so ma'am and everyone do you have three minutes to speak to state your name and where you generally reside good evening Madam Chair, members of the board, Jason Hickman of Compton and Dooling. I'm here as a representative for Ms. Eller. Ms. Eller owns three properties as was discussed. She's the northernmost landowner.

[05:08:34] She owns the properties on Hoadley Road. The issue that we have with this particular proposal has been narrowed. We did work with the applicant and resolved a number of issues that were of concern. The main issue that still remains has to do with something that's existed the entire time. This is not something that's new that just came up, but it has been in effect since the beginning. And in fact, with the predecessor development, it was an issue as well. It goes hand in hand with the boundary line adjustment. The boundary line adjustment was something to

[05:09:13] correct an issue in the title. That boundary line adjustment has now been submitted to the county and what has happened is the applicant is now using the boundary line adjustment to in effect be the buffer area. There is a buffer waiver request and the buffer waiver request is a waiver from 30 feet to 15 feet because the 15 feet that they need is the 15 feet in the boundary line adjustment.

[05:09:49] In effect, what we have is a situation where the boundary line adjustment effectively does nothing because in essence what it becomes is the buffer area that was required of the applicant to begin with.

[05:10:05] It's a matter of semantics, but the reality of the whole situation is Ms. Eller would have never agreed to allow her property to be part of the buffer and she's not now agreeing to have her property be part of the buffer.

[05:10:22] So the applicant instead has said, well, we'll just ask for a waiver and make it 15 feet instead of 30 feet. The problem with that is the requirement of 30 feet existed before any of the designs came out. It existed with the predecessor application, which also included the boundary line adjustment.

[05:10:44] So this is not something new. It is something that has existed all along. and could have been dealt with in such a manner that you wouldn't have had to have a buffer area request for waiver reduction from 30 feet to 15 feet.

[05:10:59] If you look at the staff report, it actually is detailed in the staff report specifically as an area of concern at page number 16 of the staff report. And specifically, it says, while the buffer modification is supported by staff, the full required buffers should always be provided for new development.

[05:11:24] This was new development, is new development, was in existence as an issue before this ever came to be before you, and should have been addressed previously without now being before you. I see my time is up, so I will stop talking. Thank you.

[05:11:43] Thank you so very much. I'd just like to say that if you were having a... Please speak into the microphone because we... I'm Betty Jean Eller. We cannot hear you. Oh, sorry. We want to hear you, but we cannot hear you. Grow any taller. Okay, there we go.

[05:12:00] I think that the code calls for a 30-feet buffer. We still cannot hear you, Jason. I'm making you work too now. I'm grateful it'll be in my mouth. Okay, just talk loudly. Okay, the code calls for a 30-feet buffer. I think I'm entitled to a 30-feet buffer.

[05:12:18] If you had this development next to you, you would want as much buffer as you could get. And I want what I'm entitled to. I want what the code calls for. I want 30-beat buffer. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am.

[05:12:37] Next speaker, Mr. Nelson. My name is Tim Nelson. I'm actually Betty Jean's neighbor. A couple of concerns I have.

[05:12:53] I don't think the information about this particular change from the Geisler to the Gibson has been advertised as much as the Geisler one. So the response here, us three, and I think there was one other gentleman, hasn't been as negative since the Geisler was changed over to the previous, from Geisler to the current one.

[05:13:28] Since I didn't get a lot of information from Medco, I went ahead and did a study for myself, and I did it on the Internet. I found 86 people who opposed this property change.

[05:13:48] That's a lot. And I've only did this for a week now, so I'm sure there's more to come. One thing I had seriously worried about was, since I live so close to the intersection of 234, I'm worried about the students coming from Colgan High School crossing 234 and Hoadley Road.

[05:14:17] I've seen them. There's been many at one time crossing the road, most of them headed down to the Taylor-Low Trailer Court. So I think that needs to be addressed. There's no crosswalk. There's nothing there.

[05:14:34] There's no lights for civilian crossing. There's no pathways that they can, you know, stay in. But I see that often. You know, there's 200 days of school.

[05:14:51] So times that, how many students are crossing that intersection? It's very dangerous. One thing on my property I want to bring up, which one of the gentleman designers told me was about, I was worried about my well.

[05:15:14] And they said that I could have Jennifer come up and show the map of the way the water drains and that my well will be fine.

[05:15:30] So I haven't seen that on any drawings. All I have is just word say. The last thing is, since I live on Hoodley Road, the rescue comes down my road repeatedly.

[05:15:48] I mean, every few hours, there's a rescue coming down. And if they had to get into this property, I'm not so sure. This was brought up in the Geisler that they could not get a emergency vehicle down there.

[05:16:05] Thank you. Thank you so very much. Ms. Madden, do we have anyone online? All right. So we do not have any other speakers. So thank you very much. I'm going to close the public hearing for 13A. I did want to see quickly if the applicant wanted to address the question about the buffers. Madam Chair, not just the buffers, if you could also talk about the

[05:16:34] well situation as well. Thank you. And just as confirmation that we got, the buildings will be ADA compliant, type A and B, and fall under UFAS. Oh, my presentation, please. I'm sorry.

[05:17:07] while they're doing that just to take one of the items that i heard which is um that it appeared that there was more um notice on the geisler property the geisler property was a little unique i did not work on that um rezoning it did take 10 years to get rezoned i do believe they went to the planning commission a number of times and possibly the board a number of times so i think that's a little bit of the difference there we've only been to the planning commission once and now

[05:17:39] the board. We did go to MIDCO four times starting in 2020 and the last time was in October and I believe we discussed it with them for about two hours. So I wanted to talk about these boundary line adjustment areas. As you can see here there's actually three of them. So bear with me as I explain each of these. The first one is located right here. It is this dark green one. That is

[05:18:14] we have found after doing extensive title research on this, it is what is known as an unintentional boundary overlap. So Geisler Property said for that dark green area that they would offer it to, at the time, the property owner of this right here, which was Mr. Kirk.

[05:18:37] That property has since changed ownership. It is now owned by the Lopez family. Mr. Lopez did attend the Planning Commission hearing and did want more information. We have met with him and I do not see him here tonight and he would like that piece of property. We do believe it is his based on the fact that it is an unintentional boundary overlap. Wait, hold on a second. I'm sorry. Thank you. The next piece of property is right here. It is this light green piece of property. We believe that that is also an unintentional boundary overlap and that it is

[05:19:15] actually miss eller's property um she did um do an adjustment making it hers without the consent of the owner um prior to this um hearing and we do need to fix that and do a quick claim so you'll see on our um plans that we need to quick claim that to fix the title on that but we do intend to give that to her and we do believe that that is hers based on our title review now the wedge that we've been talking about, we have found no evidence that the wedge is an unintentional

[05:19:52] boundary overlap or is her property. The Geisler property did commit to give that to her, and we want to honor that request and also give that to her. We submitted that boundary line adjustment prior to the Planning Commission hearing. In good faith, we wanted to give it to her before this board hearing, so she didn't have another instance like Geisler where they said they would give it to her at site plan. They never got to site plan and it was never given to her. We wanted to just do it now, do it up front, get that fixed. Unfortunately, she did not sign the development control application and the boundary line adjustment is just sitting at the county

[05:20:30] waiting for that document. So that wedge is adjacent to the old Hoadley Road bed right here, which she owns that you can see and then her home is on this property here and then she has two other homes on this property here. We do want to honor that but we do need that buffer modification in that location in order to be able to do that based on when we learned about that boundary line adjustment and the history of it in that it was not actually ever her land. The boundary line

[05:21:09] adjustment as staff said they always prefer to have the full 30 feet but because of what we have done and we worked with both the county arborist and the planning office to make sure that at the narrowest it is at least 15 feet and again it's a wedge so you can see that it very quickly gets pretty thin on our side we also offered additional plantings on her property which she said no thank you to when we have removed we offered the eight foot fence along the whole northern property line

[05:21:41] that would extend like this we have provided and offered via proffer additional and i'll show you what right here what i'm talking about foundation plantings so these plantings that you see right here we added to provide even more and then here you have that emergency grass crete access right here. You have that 15-foot buffer at the narrowest that quickly gets bigger, but it is not an encumbrance on her property. In no way is her property our buffer. We are just asking for a 15-foot

[05:22:20] waiver on our property in order to give that to her. I also wanted to mention just a few other things to make sure I get to everything. In terms of notice, county postcards, they were sent out when we submitted in 2023 before the planning commission and for the board and that is 500 feet um mr nelson said he saw something that 86 people opposed we had three people attend the planning commission hearing that was miss eller mr nelson and mr lopez we have since met with

[05:22:53] mr lopez and he is not here this evening and i don't think that i forgot anything but i am Available for questions. Supervisor. Oh, I did forget something. A sewer. The well.

[05:23:09] Well, sorry. So we did have, I apologize. I knew I was getting something. We did have an engineer whose specific specialty is wells. Scott Meyer did provide us with a proffer in terms of well monitoring from the Klein property.

[05:23:25] We took a look at that. We had an engineer tell us that based on the design of the site and how the site drains, groundwater drains away from Mr. Nelson's property. It does not drain to the north. It drains to the south towards Colgan and that there would be no concern for the wells on the other side of the property towards Hoadley Road. All right thank you. Now Supervisor Ware. Thank you Madam Chair. With respect to the wedge shape transfer was that a proper condition of the Geisler rezoning? The boundary line adjustment was. So if it was a condition of the Geisler property and you're

[05:24:05] redoing this and should have reviewed the proffers at the time. Was there a proffer analysis done and why wasn't that factored? If so, why wasn't that factored into the design phase so you would have designed this to fit a 30-foot buffer? I'll be honest, the boundary line adjustment proffer from the Geisler property was an extremely unusual proffer that committed to submitting a boundary line adjustment prior to approval of that rezoning and then recording it at site plan.

[05:24:37] We did not realize, and there's actually a county mapper error, and our surveyors had to dig into this. We had a meeting with both Scott and the county's GIS and surveyors to figure it out, but what you see on county mapper is not the correct boundary. So we had to then take that information, do a real deep dive into the correct boundary and figure that out. That was done, I believe, in spring 2024, and that's when we realized that the boundary line adjustment was in addition to what we were thinking it was. With all due respect, and this applies both to you and

[05:25:16] to staff, I would expect a full proper review and analysis when you're redoing a project like this, particularly one like the Geisler one that went on for almost a decade, and I remember that one, and as controversial as it was, and to not, and I'm going to take issue with staff after this meeting, but to not have a full analysis, proper analysis, Geisler to this that includes that is problematic to me, especially given the rather unusual nature of not just one but three boundary adjustments.

[05:25:52] I've never seen anything like this. And it just leads me to question the due diligence by both y'all and staff on this. Thank you. All right, thank you. I don't see any more speakers, any more comments.

[05:26:07] So thank you so very much. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not sure if staff wants to address both points that were made or no. I mean, you don't have to. I just want to see if you guys wanted to. Well, in terms of the banner line adjustment, we did, Supervisor Vega, have extensive coordination with our GIS folks.

[05:26:27] So, Geisler, we did the best that we thought was the meets and bounds, but there was a further, more detailed title research endeavor that was done with this project.

[05:26:44] So, what we're going to have at the end of this project is actually more accurate than what we currently have. Geisler was very convoluted in that. We were making certain assumptions, and when a surveyor gives us that information as staff, we take it that that is accurate and true.

[05:27:06] We did a deeper dive, and we realized that it was revised, and what we have is better than what we've had before. So, again, that was an existing condition. I had brought that to the applicant's attention during the review.

[05:27:23] There was a proper analysis, Supervisor Weir, but I guess I'm trying to explain this. Even though it was based on previous information, we realized through more rigorous review that it needed to be fixed, and it's being fixed now.

[05:27:44] Supervisor Weir. If that's the case, and you guys brought the issue to the applicant, and you guys are off the hook. Thank you, Scott. Okay. madam chair I would first off like to thank the applicant staff and to the residents that have been a part of this process it's been a few years it's been a long time coming as district supervisor I always look at land use through the lens of my constituents and the surrounding areas and some of the challenges that predate me even being in this seed it's no surprise that with Colgan high school coming that's presented a lot of challenges to this

[05:28:23] area sidewalks or the lack of better for lack of better words have always been an issue and to penalize a new applicant for a new project that they're trying to put forward for existing issues I find to be unfair although I do not ignore nor dismiss the concerns we're working as best as we can to address these concerns we're constantly working with the police department with the school to ensure that we figure something out with traffic to get it moving along with colgan but another thing that i want to highlight about this project is is that we always talk about and supervisor gordy talks a lot about this is building community right this is a project that

[05:29:01] has a lot of amenities that i am proud of amenities that i think that the residents that live in this apartment complex are going to be happy to have but also i look at making traffic worse county staff has already talked about how drastic of a reduction in daily car trips this proposal right now is going to be in the positive and also want to talk about the crowding issue in our schools um it is age-restricted it hits a lot of the boxes madam chair when it comes to what what it is that we're looking for in a project and I want to thank the applicant for always answering phone calls for concerns that I've raised and being agreeable to work through those concerns I know that this past the Planning Commission there were some

[05:29:39] concerns or ask that the PC made that have been complied with and MITCO also sent a letter in support of this project as well so for those reasons madam chair i would like to move rezoning 2024-0004 gibson crossing for approval for the following reasons the proposed rezoning to pmr as proffered is consistent with and directly implements the mu4 land use designation and the comprehensive plan as proffered the proposal will allow for the development of the property as a cohesive age-restricted plan residential community within an appropriate density

[05:30:13] range with a specific layout and building height limit quality design access improvements pedestrian safety provisions and on-site amenities the proposed development supports housing policy number two it promotes diverse mixed income housing communities throughout the county that addresses the demand for additional housing the demand for a variety of housing and the demand for affordable housing to meet the needs of residents at all income levels throughout all stages of life the proposal is in alignment with the county's 2021-2024 strategic plan goal number six sustainable growth which promotes a sustainable community with a variety of housing types densities

[05:30:49] and affordability to ensure a safe and livable environment for all residents second all right we're going to move on to discussion supervisor um did you have anything else you want to say all right supervisor bode then we are thank you madam chair um thank you sir azavega for all the you've done on this over the last few years. Generally speaking, I scratched my head when we put age-restricted near schools, but in this situation, it makes a lot of sense. Being the newer kid on the block of representing an area that abuts 234, I've gone up to speed on all the issues that have happened in this corridor, especially at that sort of nexus of Hoadley

[05:31:28] and 234. So there's a lot of challenges there. As soon as I said, it's really not up to this applicant to fix all of the existing pedestrian connectivity issues that already exist, would love at some point to have an easier way for the folks here to make it across, get up to Woodbine and some of the other amenities in this area. However, that's not where we are right now.

[05:31:46] Hoping that that STAR study and the other work that our transportation department is doing comes across and gets to some of those solutions, but we're not there right now. As Sue Raza Vega mentioned, the applicant and the representative have done a lot of work on maintaining and creating an amenity-centric community of choice for aging residents.

[05:32:08] I like to make sure that whenever we're looking at age-restricted, we make sure that as much as possible, folks can stay on the grounds that they're living in, right? We don't want them to have to leave to go get things, to even have fun, have recreational activities. So you've done a really good job of making sure that's done.

[05:32:23] So I appreciate you doing that, Surabaya. the last thing i'll say is um we have a lot of situations like this where we have really constrained parcels this is a great basically infill development and so there's a lot more unique challenges that we have around these types of parcels that we don't see in other parts of the county um so you have to kind of work and be creative as possible and i think that's been achieved here so again generally don't like to see age restricted near schools but it makes sense in this situation again i appreciate all the work the applicant and the district supervisors have done So I'll be supporting this.

[05:32:56] Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. I have an observation, but I want to preface it with a comment. I have nothing against this application. I'm going to vote in favor of it. Quite frankly, I believe it is a vast improvement over the angst-ridden Geisler proposal.

[05:33:14] But I do have an observation. It seems that, yet again, here we go, taking property that great effort and expense was put into rezoning to a commercial use and developing a commercial use plan for, and now we're changing it to residential.

[05:33:32] Happens time and again. In this particular instance, I find this far preferable to the Geisler property. I do, however, have issues with not the proposal, not the end result, but how we arrived here.

[05:33:51] Because yet again, there does not appear to be adequate analysis of existing proffers on a property with a development plan when a new one comes in. And far too often, we lose sight of what was previously proffered and what is currently proffered and what's the net net.

[05:34:12] And I think that's something that we need to address from a policy standpoint. But that being said, I like the project. I'm going to support it, Super Oswego. All right. We don't have any more speakers in the queue, so let's go ahead and move forward with the vote.

[05:34:29] Vote unanimous. All right. Thank you so very much. We are now going to move on to Agenda Item 13B, and that is the rezoning for Thomas Farm at Bristow Station.

[05:34:46] If the applicant can please come to the front for your presentation.

[05:35:11] Good evening, Chair Jefferson and members of the board.

[05:35:27] My name is Jonelle Cameron with Walsh, Colucci, Lubelai, and Walsh. Here tonight on behalf of the applicant, JR Real Estate Group for Thomas Farm at Bristow Station Rezoning. With me are representatives from JR Real Estate and its consultants, including the civil engineer team, the environmental consultants, and then our traffic consultant team.

[05:35:50] The property is located on Noakesville Road and is approximately 80.2852 acres in size. This here is New Bristow Village. Bristow Corner and Bristow Crossing are located here.

[05:36:05] Those were approved earlier this year. Avondale is located in this area in here. The property is currently zoned A1 Agricultural and comprehensively planned residential neighborhood T2. The property specifically allows for one to four dwelling units per acre.

[05:36:29] This slide here shows the residential neighborhood from the comprehensive plan. There are a couple of things I wanted to just point out to you all on this. Both single-family attached and single-family detached units are both considered principal units or principal uses or primary uses within the comprehensive plan.

[05:36:49] And affordable and workforce housing is encouraged countywide. As part of the housing chapter of the comprehensive plan, when looking at affordable housing, there are various incentives. One of those incentives speaks to, and it's the highlighted portion on the screen, a density increase above the top density range in the comprehensive plan.

[05:37:12] And it should be allowed to proportionate to twice the number of affordable units provided. So said differently, if an applicant provides 10% of the units as affordable, they can achieve a 20% increase above the top end of the density range that's recommended in the comprehensive plan.

[05:37:33] At the Planning Commission public hearing, the applicant proposed 350 units, which equated to 4.36 dwelling units per acre and included that density bonus that I talked about. After the Planning Commission public hearing, it was requested that the applicant reduce the number of units, and the applicant reduced the number of units to 340 units, which also included that density bonus, which was 4.23 dwelling units per acre.

[05:38:03] After the staff report was dispatched, the applicant was made aware that the density bonus would not be supported here and was specifically asked to reduce the density to be in line with the comprehensive plans one to four dwelling units per acre without taking advantage of that density bump.

[05:38:21] In order to do that, the applicant specifically removed townhouse units in this area in here and added a pump station in this area in here or a potential location for a pump station. The applicant has reduced the number of units to 320 units, which is a little less.

[05:38:42] It's 3.99, so it's four dwelling units per acre. The board, and it's also included on the county's website, received a revision of that to address that change. And specifically, as you see on your screen, this is an illustrative of the revised master zoning plan. The applicant included duplex units. So those units that had those townhome units, those were removed and eight duplex units were added. The applicant as part of this proposal is also providing six different housing types,

[05:39:16] which include large and small lot single family detached units, three types or sizes of single family attached units, and duplex units. For purposes of the zoning ordinance, the applicant is proposing type B reduced setback homes, type C village house, type E duplex units, and type F townhome units. The site was specifically designed for the larger lots to be located, and i'm going to try jessica's way and see if it works so to be located in this area in here

[05:39:49] which is on the perimeter of the site and then along this area in here also along the perimeter of the site and really how the site was designed is that the larger homes will be on the outside so they're similar to the size of new bristow village and then as you go interior to the site the site becomes more dense the applicant as part of this proposal is also providing 10 percent of the units as affordable, which is 32 units. 16 of those units will be made available to people earning up to 80% AMI, and 16 of those units will be made available to people earning up to 120%

[05:40:29] AMI. The applicant is providing a 100-foot buffer adjacent to the railroad track and a 50-foot buffer along Noakesville Road. The applicant is seeking a waiver to allow for the trail to be located within the buffer area. The applicant has also proffered a fence on the property line adjacent to New Bristow Village. There is an existing cemetery on the site, which is located in this area and here. That cemetery was discovered by the applicant during their due diligence period.

[05:41:04] The applicant has specifically delineated the cemetery. They actually did a genealogy report and provided that report to the family regarding those that are buried in that cemetery. They've proffered protective fencing and signage during construction near the cemetery, a permanent cemetery sign for the cemetery, and a permanent fence that is an ornamental fence or rod iron material fence around the perimeter of the cemetery.

[05:41:33] As part of the proposal, the applicant was also required to conduct a traffic impact study and look at the four intersections that you see on your screen. Intersections one, two, and four are existing intersections. and intersection three is the access point. With the traffic impact analysis, the county requires you to look and analyze the existing traffic, the future traffic without your development, but include background trips and a 2% growth rate, and then the future traffic with your development. For this specific project, the proposal did not reduce the grades or the levels

[05:42:11] of service. The applicant is providing dedicated left and right turn lanes into the site, and the applicant has proffered $75,000 in the event that a traffic signal in the future is warranted at the access. That traffic signal is not currently warranted today, and it's not currently warranted in the future with our trips, but this came up at the Planning Commission public hearing, so the applicant has and has agreed to proffer that amount this slide shows the transportation

[05:42:44] connectivity as part of the proposal the applicant increased the size of the access so it's two lanes in and two lanes out the applicant is showing various interpersonal connections as part of the property there's an interpersonal connection here to the savage estate there's an interpersonal connection shown here and there's an interpersonal connection shown here to new bristol village there's also an interpersonal connection that's shown to the county-owned property in this area in here the interpersonal connection to new bristol village is not supported by the

[05:43:21] new bristol village community they have a proffer that had a reservation for the interpersonal connection it was never dedicated to the county and county staff is requiring that the applicant provide that interpersonal connection. We have a specific proffer that says if the county does not acquire the right-of-way from New Bristow Village prior to the 200th unit, the applicant will provide a monetary contribution for the county to do that in the future. I will say that the applicant specifically designed their site, so that interpersonal connection is not required.

[05:43:57] We will not need that for SSAR, which is a VDOT standard, because the applicant designed the site to have it so the entranceway is four lane divided entranceway and we have the additional interparcel connections around the property. This slide shows the pedestrian connectivity so along as you see interior to the site along all of the main roads there is a sidewalk and then there is a trail that goes the perimeter trail that goes around the site. In addition to that perimeter

[05:44:32] trail this is the bristow battlefield station and the applicant has a specific proffer that they would construct a trail from our trail network which will have a public access on that trail to the existing trail that is within the battlefield the applicant has proffered that they would construct it if they do not get approval to construct that trail that they would provide the monetary contribution to the county for the county to be able to construct the trail. This slide shows the buffer and landscape plan. As previously mentioned, the

[05:45:10] applicant is providing a 100-foot buffer adjacent to the railroad, and that 100 feet is outside of the limits of clearing and grading, and the applicant is providing a 50-foot buffer along Route 28. A little over 30 percent of the site is proposed to be common open space, which is aligned with the zoning ordinance. There is a 25-foot undisturbed buffer area in this area in here around the cemetery, and the applicant is proposing supplemental plantings along Route 28

[05:45:43] in these areas in here, and in this area in here, supplemental plantings along this area in here, supplemental plantings in this area in here, and then supplemental plantings around the cemetery as well. In the next few slides, I will briefly review with you the amenities. There is a recreational court that is being proposed. It is part of the design guidelines, which are proffered. It's about 11,395 total square feet of recreational courts and amenities. There's a clubhouse with a pool.

[05:46:19] The clubhouse is about 4,700 square feet, and the pool area is about 3,800, a little over 3,800 hundred square feet and the pool was designed actually to increase so that it could be used for a competition style pool. The applicant is also proposing an outdoor amenity area that includes grills, a pavilion area, a central park, and then a Thomas Farm Civil War Memorial as part of the proposal which is shown in this area in here. The applicant engaged an archaeologist and worked

[05:46:56] with county staff to provide design elements and features that would pay tribute to the historical aspects of this part of the county. For example, Bristow Station Battlefield and also Thomas Family Memorial. Those features include replica cannons and cannonballs, scrub pines, and historical and or interpretive signs along the trail of both Bristow Station Battlefield and Thomas Family.

[05:47:21] This shows those images. And then there's a proposed family activity center, which includes additional recreational areas as part of the proposal. This slide shows renderings of the building elevations that are proposed in the design guidelines and in the next few slides I will show you all some 3D renderings of the site so this site shows the access in and out and one thing that was important about the access working with the county and VDOT is that the median is

[05:47:57] brought out further so that this access point is specifically for folks that are making that right in into the site and somebody coming down 28 couldn't cut straight across this is a rendering of the interior of the site so this shows those smaller lots and then the townhome units this is a rendering of the recreational area this is a rendering of the pool and clubhouse and that concludes my presentation with a positive staff report and recommendation of approval from the

[05:48:33] Planning Commission we also recommend that we also request that the board also recommend approval of this application and I can answer any questions that you all may have all right Supervisor Gordy do you have anything um thank you madam chair uh yeah um I'm wondering if we should just go ahead and have the staff present their report and then let's uh because I've got we've got some work to do uh so I'd rather hear from the staff and uh and then we can start tackling some of the specific issues that we need to address thank you all right then um i do have supervisor bode if you can hold

[05:49:09] or do you have that's fine i can hold all right thank you so much good evening chair jefferson supervisors my name is alex venegas from the planning office and i will be presenting this uh rezoning case to the board um we do have cobra here in the audience she's our the senior planner

[05:49:49] that was the case planner she did a wonderful job working with the applicant and negotiating so i did not update my slide presentation because it was sent with the board and i wanted the community to see what we submitted i i did create some supplemental slides i was up last night and most of the day today trying to verify all the changes and also to create a slideshow going over those specific changes so from the original presentation it was a request to rezone 80.28 uh

[05:50:28] acres from a1 to pmr planned mixed residential again the location is here along nooksville road to the north we have new bristow village and then we have the dean savage estate to the south and southeast staff is recommending approval again this property is in the long range land use it's rn2 residential neighborhood with a transect two that's one to four dwelling units per acre. The zoning, as you can see, is A1 for most of the properties, with the

[05:51:06] exception of New Brostow Village, which is PMR. And then we do have a parcel down here that is M1. So from the original presentation, this was the community amenity area. I'm not going to go through all this. I think Janelle did a good job. This was the layout that we received with the original application of the site layout before we receive the the changes and again these are the the transportation the the public streets as well as the private streets

[05:51:42] associated with the development these are the design guidelines that we received with the application and each one of the different unit types had a layout showing you the the setbacks to the property line minimum lot requirements associated with each one of the different housing types these are the last three of the housing types associated with the project and in here it tells you what the requirements are

[05:52:17] for the planned mixed residential and what they're proposing if there's a change or a waiver associated with that again staff is recommending approval the The proffers were updated for December 9th, and if you give me a minute, I'll go through those really quick.

[05:52:55] So I wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of the changes that were being proposed with this proffer statement. So primarily on page 2, they updated the language from substantial conformance to general conformance.

[05:53:17] Under proffer 2, they reduced the number of single-family attached units from 186 down to 158. That's that decrease in density, but they did request to allow for eight duplex units. Under proffer number four, they reduced the affordable dwelling units from 35 to 32, as well as the breakdown 16 units at the 80% AMI, 16 units at the 120.

[05:53:46] On page six, for the proffer six, for the design guidelines, Again, they switched the language from substantial conformance to general conformance, and then for proffer number 27, they added the waiver to allow the duplex and the modification associated with that to have the duplex as one of their unit types.

[05:54:13] So this is, if you look at what was provided to you, these are the changes that were made. As you can see, the date change from November 5th to December 9th, and then here's the general conformance the amount of units the amount of affordable dwelling units and then under the modifications again in order to get the duplex they had to add the type E from the zoning ordinance and then the associated modification associated with that so under the design guidelines I went through the entire design guidelines verified these were the changes that they made some of them

[05:54:52] are very simple and straightforward they updated the date to December 9th from the may 5th that appeared on the original design guidelines they updated the illustrative to reflect duplexes and they removed the townhomes they updated the street network illustrative to reflect the duplexes and also remove the townhomes so most of these things are consistent they also updated the open space network illustrative to reflect the duplex townhomes updated the perimeter walking trail updated the amenity plan illustrative added plan details for the

[05:55:29] type e duplex which we mentioned and added plan details for the duplex and move the picture from the community clubhouse updated the illustrative plan details to reflect duplexes and remove townhouses so it's pretty consistent through the design guidelines and this is an example they added this slide as I mentioned previously so that they have the type e which is duplex associated with the design guidelines they did add this duplex picture and move the the community clubhouse down to a different location for the master zoning plan they

[05:56:09] updated the co co numbers are the the respective types of plans so the first one was the cover page they updated that in c100 they updated the land bay plan tabulations there's a different number as well as exhibit and legend c200 site layout they updated the layout to include a pump station as well under c300 which is a landscape and buffer plan they updated the site open space tabulation table so they actually increased the open space the layout to include

[05:56:44] pump station uh c400 the transportation and utility plan uh they updated the layout and modified standard uh for the typical sections and then c600 amenity concept plan they modified the layout and the family activity area which these are examples of what was done so the land-based site tabulation was updated it now reflects a 3.99 dwelling unit per acre originally they were up

[05:57:15] at 4.36 i believe uh in the earlier uh iteration that the open space uh slightly increased up to 30.5 um and then these are some of the changes the primary changes are in this area where they removed townhomes and added the duplexes and let me just see if i can just um and then this this shows the change where they also added the pumps uh general location for the pump station um and And with that, you know, the staff has received a lot of feedback from the community.

[05:57:53] Some of their concerns were regarding density. The applicant has recently reduced the density, so now it's in alignment with the comprehensive plan. Also, we had a lot of feedback from the community regarding the inter-parcel connection. People in New Bristow Village have made it adamantly clear they don't want that.

[05:58:13] That is something that we are asking for through our transportation department, that's something standard, you have to have those. But we're open to discuss that with the board and we'll gladly take any questions. - All right, thank you.

[05:58:28] I'm gonna start with Supervisor Gordy. - Okay, so as folks can see, there's been a lot of changes. We've been working on this based on feedback from the community to try to make this a better plan for the community.

[05:58:46] I do want to start by saying that this parcel never underwent long-range land use plan analysis. It was added to the comp plan the night the board voted on it. That's not the way to do land use. We are at an RN2.

[05:59:03] That's what the comp plan says. I would have preferred to have seen something in a C-RES to create the transition between suburban and the agricultural areas. And let me just say this. Mr. Thomas, good to see you tonight. This is no reflection on you whatsoever.

[05:59:20] I love you guys. In fact, that's the saddest part of all this, is that you're leaving our community. I hope you're not going far, because I still want to see you. They are an institution in Noakesville, and so we need you there.

[05:59:38] So that's good to hear. That makes me very happy. So we've addressed the density, got it in alignment with the comp plan, with an RN2. As far as schools, you may have seen the announcement that the school board and the school system is working to come up with a plan to take this parcel and reassign it before people move into it away to a different school that has capacity other than the Noakesville school, which is over capacity.

[06:00:10] so before any house is built our intent is to have this resolved uh so that no child will have to be moved from one school to another um and we have our school board member erica trudenik here she happens to be my chief of staff as well so we get to work and talk about this every single day um all right um interparcel connector come on up um madam chair i would like to remove proper 24 that requires an interparcel connection to Walter Taylor Drive.

[06:00:45] And I would also like the applicant to add a waiver under the waivers and modifications section to add a waiver of section 32-250.72 of the zoning ordinance and section 601.01 and 601.06 of the DCSM requiring an interparcel connection to Walter Taylor Drive in New Bristow Village.

[06:01:10] Is the applicant willing to accept those two amendments to the proffer statement? The applicant is willing to accept those two amendments to the proffer statement, and we can make those amendments during public comment time if that's okay with you all. And we'll share that with the staff and also the county attorney to make sure she approves that.

[06:01:27] But the answer is yes. And so, again, Walter Taylor Drive, if you've been to it, it's really not – it's a neighborhood street. It is not a collector road. it cannot handle traffic coming in and out from a different neighborhood.

[06:01:44] And so the reason why I've agreed to general conformance on the MZP is because I want those two houses right there to get closer together to take out the easement. So it only becomes a 20-foot easement rather than a 50-foot easement.

[06:02:03] And the 20-foot easement would only be for the water and sewer connection. And then this way, it eliminates any option for an interparcel connector on this side of the fence. Now, I have been in contact with the New Bristow Village with Cameron Abbott.

[06:02:20] We will continue to work this from your side of the fence because that's something we're still going to have to do. But as far as what we can do tonight, this is as far as we can take it. So I appreciate the applicant willing to accept those amendments to the proper statement.

[06:02:38] Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you so much. I'm going to go over to Supervisor Weir. Alex, I've got some questions for you. If you could go to your presentation and the slide deck or part of the slide deck on the comp plan map, the comp plan map.

[06:03:10] Oh, the comp plan. As my time ticks away, I want my 26 seconds back. Okay, I think we've already established that the parcel with the RN2 was not on the advertised 2040 plan and was changed the night of the meeting.

[06:03:34] Is that correct? It was changed. Staff did not have the opportunity to fully evaluate it. So they did not vet that change prior to it being changed that night. With respect to the surrounding properties now designated POS that are currently zoned A1, is that a similar change made the night of the meeting?

[06:03:53] I believe so. I think the thought process was to get it. I don't care about the thought process. I'm saying you didn't have any analysis on the RN2, when somebody just designated private property with an A1 designation for an agricultural use as parks and open space that isn't parks and open space.

[06:04:10] Is that fair enough? I believe that's what transpired. Okay. Looking at the initial staff report, you've got proposals weaknesses, transition of density, and then in the paragraph before proposal strength, you talk about 4.24 units being incompatible.

[06:04:28] Given those two weaknesses, how can it be consistent with the long-range land use plan in general? Due to the fact that we knew affordable dwelling units were being provided as consistent with the housing chapter, that gives us that ability to...

[06:04:44] Which leads me to my next question. Is the density bonus contemplated in the COMP plan implemented in the zoning ordinance, emphasis on ordinance and plan? So it is in the comprehensive plan. It is not in the zoning ordinance. So the comprehensive plan is not implemented by the underlying zoning ordinance?

[06:05:04] In this case, no. as it is in many other cases. You received the revised package when? December 9th. What time? I think it was in the afternoon, like four-ish. December 9th being yesterday?

[06:05:20] That is correct. And I received it shortly thereafter and have been in meetings all day and have not had a chance to review this. Understanding that I guess you spent most of last night when you should have otherwise been enjoying your family or sleeping, reviewing a last-minute submission, just to comment on my part, you don't have to answer that.

[06:05:37] Does the revised submission address other things such as the transition of density? I'm assuming that hasn't changed. They did decrease the density, but the transition. Yeah, the transition does not.

[06:05:52] Okay, I'm assuming that in addition to the already proposed reduced setbacks, landscape areas, and smaller lot sizes, there are now even more? There are some areas, yes, that's correct. Additional waivers?

[06:06:08] They did request additional? There are additional. It's a rhetorical question. The answer is yes. I take it none of the wetland system that bisects the area has been preserved under the new submission? So the wetlands area ends prior to the development.

[06:06:30] Has the impact not been changed by the new submission? No, it has not. Same thing with the tree cover. Tree cover has not changed? Tree cover has not changed. They are still deficient? So, yes, based on the feedback that we got from environmental.

[06:06:47] Are they still requiring a waiver for the transportation for the taper in the front of the development? Yes. Is Proffer 17 still in this? I have to check that proffer. Give me a minute. Yes, it is.

[06:07:07] Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just top level, Cobra, thank you for your work on this. Alex, thank you for your work on this. In my time on the board the last five years, I've not seen someone go and actually add the changes to the proffers between what was already in dispatch and what came before us.

[06:07:28] So, Alex, thank you for all your work in getting that part of the presentation to us and out even in what's out there because that's a transparency issue. So I wanted to commend you on that before I asked my questions because I wanted to just thank folks who worked on this. Not sure if this is a question for you, Alex, or for Janelle, but can someone speak to the average income for those AMI units?

[06:07:53] We're safe. Yes. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen of the board. Safe Rahman, Managing Partner, JR Real Estate. So, Supervisor Bode, we have actually six different price points in this community. So the 80% AMI home will probably be around the $295 level.

[06:08:11] and then the 120 ami home will probably be in the 380 uh range and then they will step up from there going all the way up to a million dollars so essentially you have six price points for the different homes in the same community and we uh designed it as such so that you can actually have people buy a starter home and be able to step up in the same community thank you so much uh next question um janelle i think maybe you mentioned it the the uh increase in width of the entryway You said that that conforms to the sort of the safety concerns and the egress, ingress issues?

[06:08:48] Yes. And so initially when we submitted the application, it was only one lane in and one lane out. But in order to get more people in and out without requiring the access to New Bristow Village, the applicant widened that access point, ingress and egress, to make sure that if we would not need New Bristow Village, essentially.

[06:09:10] Appreciate that. And related, you know, the public safety staff looked at this, so there's no concern about the width of the streets or anything like that from a public safety perspective, correct? Yes. Last question for me. Looking at the traffic analysis, you mentioned it earlier, but I just wanted to highlight it.

[06:09:30] So currently, even with your development, VDOT has not warranted a new traffic light at the intersection. That's correct. Okay, but you are going to be contributing towards one, should one need to be happening in the future? Correct. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Vega.

[06:09:46] Thank you, Madam Chair. Jonel, you can sit down. I don't have a question for you yet. First of all, thank you to the applicant. Thank you to the community. We've received your emails. I think that we can say holistically we hear everybody.

[06:10:02] Now, what we do is what's going to be really important. This is one of those projects that I believe, with proper planning, we can make better and that there's still room for improvement with this project. This is why I say this. many of us have issues in our districts that we can really do nothing about i kind of highlighted some of the issues in my district with the first land use matter that was before this board at the beginning of this meeting but this is one of those projects that have done properly we can mitigate traffic concerns and we can mitigate overcrowding concerns while i appreciate supervisor gorty's

[06:10:38] you know changes and the applicant agreeing to those changes while though the idea of a plan is good in concept, we don't have an actual plan before us here today. You're working on it, is what he said, to make sure that no children are moved around. And I'm saying this because I see some heads moving. Is that what you said, Supervisor Gordy? Okay, thank you. And so, you know, it's not something that we say it's a done deal. And so while it may happen, there's also that opportunity that it may not happen. Now, my colleagues and some may think that because we have six different types of housing on this project that that might be a good thing for me it's a little alarming and

[06:11:17] this is why the reason why it's alarming is because at the end of the day the issue that we have here is density right and so while we play around and move things around at the end of the day you're going to add duplexes and add other typing housing types into the mix because in the end goal you still need those units right and this is why we have the issues that we're having and the concerns that are being raised by the community is, is that it is too dense. When I look at the staff report, Supervisor Weir, you literally said everything I needed to say, so I won't hash it all over again, but page 12, 13, 17, and 20, you highlight, but I want to make an emphasis on a weakness that's

[06:11:53] highlighted on page 12, and it's the transition of density. The subject site is surrounded by A1, which is agricultural property to the east, the west, and south, and to the north of Bristow village. We can sit here and argue all day long that in terms of density it mirrors the existing neighborhood but again let's not forget how we got here. This was added as a last minute by the previous board and county staff has already stated their position as to this parcel not being properly vetted and them doing their due diligence which is quite frankly needed and so when we think ahead you know this is an area again that with proper planning we can avoid the challenges that

[06:12:32] we've had in all of our districts as a result of poor planning it's a matter of time although it is not warranted there's a reason why monetary proffers are being offered for a traffic light because it's a matter of time we've heard supervisor gordy sit on this day is talk about the number of units that are in the works for this corridor so again it's a matter of time um i personally take issue also with the fact that we just got these proffers i i haven't had the time. I'll be honest, maybe you stayed up late last night. I haven't had the time to properly read and vet the new profits that have been added. And so I take issue with that because I like to do my

[06:13:09] due diligence and make sure that I'm coming into these meetings properly prepared, but with such a short notice, it makes it difficult. Now, Alex, in the area of plan consistency under the comp plans section, you have a no under environment. Why do we have a no under the section of environment?

[06:13:30] So there were, I think there was a few, um, one second, please. Um, so one, uh, for forest preservation, you know, 95% of the site was going to be cleared, um, or disturbed.

[06:13:47] Uh, there was some waivers for land, uh, escape buffer reductions. Uh, at the time, the, the open space was 24. Now we're at 30%. So that kind of goes away. And then the tree cover is not met through preservation of existing trees.

[06:14:05] So based on some of the changes, would you then switch the no, or does it remain a no? So I think it would be borderline. I would have to get input from environmental services. But since some of them went away, and my take on it, we'd probably reevaluate, and that might become a yes.

[06:14:28] Okay, but there's no way for us to find out before this meeting ends today. No. Okay, that's all I have for now, Madam Chair. All right, I don't have anyone else, so thank you so very much. I am now going to open the public hearing for 13B.

[06:14:46] Madam Chair. I'm sorry. Before we open the public hearing, I need to read a disclosure statement. Before the board holds a public hearing and votes on Agenda Item 13B involving the Thomas Farm at Bristow Station rezoning, I would like to make a voluntary disclosure.

[06:15:04] Gift Hampshire represents the estate of Dean Savage and is interested in this application. Mr. Hampshire is my legal counsel in a separate matter. I have consulted with the county attorney's office and they have advised me that I am not prohibited from participating in this matter and I am not required to make a declaration before I participate in it.

[06:15:21] However, I think voluntarily disclosing it best serves the board's interests, helps ensure transparency and fosters the public's trust in this board because I am able to participate in this matter fairly objectively and in the public's interest I will I will be participating in the board's discussion and vote on this matter thank you thank you so very much I am now going to open the public hearing for 13b they're checking to see if there's any additional signups what I'm going to do and a lot of you are new you haven't been to the board before so I'm going to call you up in groups of you know five and you'll go to the back

[06:15:58] speaker please make sure you're speaking into the microphone because can't always hear you so you're going to say your name and where you generally reside you know DeShondra Jefferson Potomac District I don't need your address unless you want me to show up at your house and I'll only do that if you make good desserts I don't eat chocolate just so you know so I'm going to start with Yvonne Odegaard, Kelly Boynton, Diana Ickfield, Stephen Osborne, and Brian Rodchick you can go to everyone

[06:16:35] go to the back all right ma'am you can begin all right thank you and good evening madam chair need you to speak louder into that microphone honey how is this yes now i can hear you thank you so much i this is new to me obviously i do thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight i want to make sure the board knows that i strongly oppose the thomas farms rezoning proposal

[06:17:10] Approving this expansion would nearly double the housing density compared to nearby communities, which range from 2.3 to 2.7 units per acre. The proposed 4 plus units per acre contradicts the rural to suburban transition outlined in the comprehensive plan and would overwhelm our already strained infrastructure.

[06:17:36] I do support the waiver to eliminate the inter-parcel connection. The traffic study failed to account for cumulative impacts, and those additional vehicles would make New Bristow Village a dangerous cut-through, jeopardizing the safety of residents and especially our children.

[06:17:57] I urge the board to prioritize community safety and sustainability by rejecting the Thomas Farms rezoning proposal. Thank you so much. All right, thank you. Next speaker. Good evening, board.

[06:18:15] I am Kelly Boynton. I am the vice president on the new Bristow Village HOA. Thank you for hearing us this evening. First of all, we would like to let you know, and we know you guys have all heard our disagreements, we do not want the Walter Taylor connector.

[06:18:32] It is a safety issue. Our roads are not the width. We literally have a shorter road span between curb to curb. VDOT does not own our sidewalks, we own our sidewalks. So that is not even included in our width in our neighborhoods.

[06:18:48] So please be aware of that. As you know from prior meetings and communication, residents and our attorneys, we object to this connector for various reasons. It puts our children at safety risk. Buses are not able to go down that street very well.

[06:19:04] And any of you, if you have ever seen our streets or seen the pictures and videos we have sent, you are aware of what it occurs. This interparcel connection is not necessary for Thomas Farm, the developer, and working with Supervisor Gordy.

[06:19:20] Neither one of us are in favor of this. The Thomas Farm master zoning clarifies the access can occur solely on the Noakesville Road. The developer has changed the plan, so this interparcel connection is not needed. The board has been working closely with Supervisor Gordy and the developer.

[06:19:36] we ask you please support Supervisor Gordery's motion to remove Profer 22 requiring all interparcel connection to Walter Taylor Drive, making sure that under the waivers in modification, the sections and added waivers of the sections 32, 250, 72 of the zoning ordinance and section 60101, 60106 of the DCSM requiring interparcel connections are approved.

[06:20:04] Please approve these waivers this evening, even if the board chooses to defer due to density issues and other concerns with planning, which we all agree are a very concerning issue in our western area. Please vote with Supervisor Gordy and help us stop this interparcel connector.

[06:20:24] Thank you. Thank you. Before I call the next person, I am sorry, but I'm going to ask everyone, if you're not slated to speak, to sit. This is a fire marshal thing. I've been banging this gavel because folks ain't been listening. all right let's go okay good afternoon or evening sorry can you hear me okay i'm diana eichfeld i also live in the brinceville district in new bristol village i also disagree with the rezoning of the thomas farm development and the cut through in through walter taylor as everyone has said it's not safe and i can tell you for our children our neighborhood is a very active community so there's

[06:21:03] people out all of the time. I personally run those roads every single day. And putting 700 more cars on those roads is not safe. Even if you get rid of the interpersonal connector, there's still a danger because I don't know if people are aware of how much foot and bike traffic are on the walkways in front of where you're going to build this development. Without a light, now people are taking their lives in their own hands of crossing these roads where you're having all this additional

[06:21:32] traffic it is not safe it needs to be reconsidered thank you thank you next speaker good evening steve osborne brinsville thank you board of supervisors for taking time to engage with us tonight the current design of thomas farm is too dense the redesign of their entrance should be sufficient to allow the residents to safely enter and exit their community the interparcel connection will burden neighborhood with vehicles foot traffic and upkeep the developer provided several realtors to speak in favor of this project at the planning meeting.

[06:22:09] Realtors are not concerned with the burdens placed on other neighborhoods, only the chance to enrich themselves from sales. More homes means greater chances for profit. The developer has another 80-acre park project further up Vent Hill, the village at Broad Run. The density plan there is significantly less, even though the acreage is the same as Thomas Farm.

[06:22:29] This alone should prove that density reduction is not an unreasonable request. The traffic impact analysis greatly understates the road use in our community. Our streets are 30 feet wide and usually have parked cars on both sides. Walter Taylor Road is heavily used for on-street parking and already requires yielding to oncoming traffic most of the time.

[06:22:48] Adding over 450 daily trips to the street would render the road unpassable for residents. Speeding, ignoring stop signs, and constant delivery vehicles are already a problem we face. Thomas Farms Density does not provide flexible parking options for their residents and guests. New Bristow Village should not have to provide overflow parking for short-sighted design choices.

[06:23:08] Myself and other neighbors choose to drive through our neighborhood to avoid getting on to 28 at problem intersections. This will likely be the same choice made by most of Thomas Farm residents if given the chance. The section of 28 in front of our community frequently is the scene of major accidents. The interparcel connector would also encourage increased foot traffic and easy access to amenities that Thomas Farm lacks.

[06:23:31] Their neighborhood plan shows a playground for the proposed 320 homes. Our neighborhood has four playgrounds, open space for less than double the number of houses. Their minimal space for kids to gather and play is already a travesty. Their proposed walking path so close to the railroad should be another cause for concern.

[06:23:48] Kids already explore the woods as it is. Our playgrounds receive a large number of visitors from outside of our community. Increased use means greater upkeep costs that are solely absorbed by the new Bristow Village residents and more contention for the use of our amenities. This interparcel connector is especially impactful for my family, as it will literally be in my backyard.

[06:24:08] Our HOA allows residents to have movable basketball hoops, and we would no longer have a place for our kids in our court to use theirs. The responsible action would be to require a density reduction and approved amenities for the Thomas Farm community.

[06:24:26] This would remove the need for the interconnection and provide a better experience for their residents. The interconnection is entirely a benefit to their neighborhood and a brutal detriment to ours. Protecting our neighborhood from abuse is why we are here tonight. approving the waiver of the interparcel connection is a step in the right direction thank you thank you before you go i'm so sorry and i didn't catch did you say where you're from your magisteria district i live in new bristol i know he does but i just want to make sure you say it for the record so all right thank you good sir before i get you i'm going to call up the next five folks

[06:24:57] i have mark um odgaard jeffrey morris susan burhouse and ross burhouse and actually jenny osborne too you can go on up all right you may go hi good evening my name is brian rodachek i'm a resident of brentsville district in new bristol village this is my daughter elaine she's getting up close and personal view of how our civics work my 13 year old couldn't be here because he's at

[06:25:34] wrestling practice tonight but i wanted you to see the face of new bristol village as we talk my my home is directly across from the clubhouse i live in the most pedestrian-centric area of our neighborhood and i can tell you during the summer time with kids coming in and out of the pool in and out of the tennis courts, basketball courts, fishing in the pond. It is a very, very high traffic area. That area right in front of my house, if this interparcel connection is approved, will become a throughway. And it is not safe. I see kids every day step off the curb without looking both ways. I see dogs get off their leash. This is just how communities work.

[06:26:14] I want to thank everyone for being here. Nobody does this because of the money. I think everybody feels a need to contribute to and see a better community for all of us. And I want to thank you. I had the opportunity to meet you, Mr. Gordy, in our clubhouse. I think you were still running.

[06:26:31] We talked about some of the unintended consequences, you know, downstream from some decisions that are made here. I think one of those ended up with a power line potentially being in your backyard. So, I mean, I just ask you to think about some of the unintended consequences that are potentially on the board with this connection. Our kids use our streets every day. They ride their bikes, they ride their scooters, they're all over our streets. They play basketball right up next to the street that will be a through way. They play soccer in every open

[06:27:07] field we have, running 700 more cars through our neighborhood. And by the way, it's about three streets that are going to see it. We stood and talked to the transportation folks, and the hour and a half that we talked to them. If this connection was there, there would have been 50 cars that went by. 90. Well, we talked a little longer than we, Jenny. And I want to thank them for coming out and talking to us. A month ago, we felt like we weren't being heard. That's why we're here. We want to be heard. There's unintended consequences of some of the decisions that are

[06:27:46] made, and it directly affects our children, and we are passionate about it, and we will fight it With everything that we have, we do not want this inter-parcel connection. So please support Mr. Gordy and do not allow this inter-parcel connection.

[06:28:04] Thank you so much. Next speaker. Hello, my name is Marco DeGuard. I'm a New Bristol Village resident. Good evening, members of the board. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

[06:28:19] I strongly oppose the Thomas Farm rezoning proposal and urge the board to approve the waiver for the inter-parcel connection into New Bristol Village. Route 28 is already overburdened with nearly 500 reported accidents since 2019, and my youngest son was one of those accidents just last year on 28 and Bristol Road.

[06:28:46] Adding thousands of daily vehicle trips will increase congestion and risk, especially without proper safety mitigations. The proposed interconnection will turn our quiet residential streets into a dangerous cut-through, engaging our children and families.

[06:29:04] This rezoning would drastically increase our housing density, undermining the intent of Thomas Farms' rural-suburban buffer and prioritize profit over responsible development in our community. We urge the board to reject the rezoning proposal until safety infrastructure and community concerns are addressed.

[06:29:24] Thank you. Next speaker, please. Hello, I'm Susan Burhouse, a resident of New Bristow Village in the Brunsville District. Although I've lived in the Brunsville District for over 20 years, interestingly, I've never been here before.

[06:29:43] I've never addressed this board before. Part of the reason why you haven't heard from me on this issue before tonight is because I feel that earlier in the process, I was misled. There were things said by the development interests, things said at meetings, there were communications strongly implying that our community didn't have to worry about an interparcel connection.

[06:30:03] You know, it implied that there would be a waiver to this interparcel connection requirement. We were told that we didn't have to worry, and so I didn't worry at that time, and my voice was effectively silenced then. I heard that there were even comments at earlier meetings, like the Planning Commission meeting, sort of observing that there was little opposition.

[06:30:24] I think clearly now you can see that that is not true, and we are here tonight asking you to hear our voices now and to approve the waiver for this interparcel connection requirement. As you've heard, the connection would funnel hundreds of extra cars through our streets every day, posing risks to children, to cyclists, to pedestrians.

[06:30:41] You've also heard our streets are simply not wide enough to accommodate this kind of traffic. I mean, they're substandard width. There are already many instances where it's difficult to navigate when there's cars coming from opposite directions on our narrow streets. When these streets were built, there's a sign sort of saying that there could be a future connection.

[06:31:00] But at that time, it was envisioned that there would be eight homes on that parcel using that connection, not hundreds of homes. The streets simply aren't able to handle that kind of traffic. Now, I don't oppose the idea of residential development. I certainly don't oppose the rights of the Thomas family to sell their property.

[06:31:20] But we need a development with a density that isn't hitting right up at the very tippy top of the extreme maximum. You know, we need a density that's in keeping with the transition to a more rural area and a density that doesn't require an inter-parcel connection.

[06:31:35] I think really the different sides of this issue are not very far apart. A slightly less dense development without an inter-parcel connection or a waiver to the current inter-parcel connection requirement really is a pretty easy solution that would allow both the Thomas Farms development and the new Bristol Village community to safely coexist.

[06:31:56] Thank you. Next speaker. Hello. I'm Ross Burhouse. I also live in New Bristow Village in the Brentsville District. Thank you, board. I'd like to speak. I ask you, please, to vote for the waiver to eliminate the interparcel connection from the proposed development.

[06:32:19] New Bristow Village roads were designed to a narrower historic village standard, and they do not have the width to accommodate the increased traffic that would result from the proposed interparcel connector. In addition to the safety concerns that have been discussed about outside vehicles passing through our residential streets, we were also told that the connection could result in curbside parking being prohibited along the affected streets, which would be an unacceptable impact to the homeowners who would not be able to park in front of their homes, and there are no other options for guest parking in the area.

[06:32:52] I'm not opposed to a housing development on the Thomas Farm property, but it needs to be of appropriate density for the location and not direct additional traffic into our neighborhood. So please do not vote for the rezoning with the interparcel connector in place.

[06:33:10] And that is what I'd say. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. My name is Jeffrey Morris. I'm a New Bristol Village and Brentsville District resident. Thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf of our community.

[06:33:26] We're here today united in opposition to the inter-parcel connection to New Bristow Village. We believe this project threatens our safety, strains our resources, and undermines the integrity of our neighborhood. The streets in New Bristow Village are designed to historic RL-2 standards and are far too narrow to accommodate the traffic from 300-plus additional homes.

[06:33:50] This will pose an unacceptable risk to children, pedestrians, and families who live in the area. The connection serves only to benefit Thomas Farm. The connection to Walter Taylor Drive will severely impact the residents that live on and around this street.

[06:34:06] As it stands now, nine residents that live on Walter Taylor can say they live on a quiet cul-de-sac. Currently, the residents on and around Walter Taylor Drive have street parking in both directions. Walter Taylor Drive is between 40 and 46 feet wide.

[06:34:25] Prince William County Transportation Department officials have already stated that they will take away all street parking on Walter Taylor Drive to accommodate the traffic that the 300-plus homes will bring. If this inter-parcel connection is allowed, the residents on Walter Taylor Drive will now have to say they live on a busy street with no parking.

[06:34:46] If the inter-parcel connection is allowed, the traffic coming in and out of Thomas Farm will be using Bristow Village Boulevard. The clubhouse, playground, tennis, and basketball courts are directly on this road. Many children play and ride their bikes in this area.

[06:35:02] Additional traffic will result in more chances for accidents. The developer's redesign of the main entrance meets county guidelines for all Thomas Farm traffic and connection is not needed. The VDOT mandates still exist for two egress points based on vehicle per day estimates, but waiver will help to limit options available for future connections.

[06:35:25] We are asking the county to vote to approve the waiver, removing the interparcel connection requirement, Remove proffer 24. If the county is not able to vote to approve the waiver, we ask them to defer this vote to allow better solutions and appropriate proffers to be worked out between all parties.

[06:35:43] Thank you. All right, before I have you speak, I'm going to call the next group so that they're in line. Gifford Hampshire, Anand Desai, Jeffrey Stevenson, Brooke Stevenson, and Kristen Buck.

[06:36:12] You may go ahead, ma'am. Hi, I'm Jenny Osborne in New Bristow Village. I am the one behind a lot of the emails. Speak into the mic. Hey there. Let me get it. All right. I'm a little tolerant, maybe.

[06:36:28] So Jenny Osborne, New Bristow Village. I'm behind a lot of the emails to you guys. I want to thank Gordy and Franklin and Madam Chair, as well as Bodie's staff that all connected with me and we had conversations. That was very helpful. Prince William Transportation met with us.

[06:36:46] I spoke with Prince William Planning. I had this great speech, but now after we've gone through all of this, I'm not quite sure what the what the motion needs to be what i'm afraid of is if we defer this vote we're going to lose that waiver that we've been fighting for right we've we've proven uh time and time again that we cannot have that traffic through new bristow and like we saw in the previous development that proffer might get lost that waiver might get lost if we start rezoning everything uh while i'm not in favor of the density i am more in favor of making sure that we protect that waiver so even

[06:37:19] if you push this project out if you could pass the motion to keep the waiver in place we can't afford to keep fighting it we've had attorneys we've had all of our free time like I've used PTO just to fight this we can't afford to keep fighting this for new developments and redraws I am dismayed that we waited until the last minute to add this waiver that we've been asking for since 2023 that's the reason we're here is we waited way too long to put this waiver in place and a lot of that has to do with how prince part of it has to do with how prince william county

[06:37:57] transportation implements the interpersonal connection no matter what data we showed in terms of traffic and road widths and safety and everything there is a never not interpersonal connection requirement and that is dangerous we are here because that implementation of that policy that doesn't include any mitigating factors is dangerous. We definitely need this inter-parcel connection waiver. We cannot afford to keep fighting it. I'm all for lower density.

[06:38:28] You guys have gotten all of my emails, but I don't want to risk changing the plan if we're going to lose our waiver. So please take that into consideration in how you vote. I truly appreciate all y'all's time. I think you guys can do a fabulous job. I am glad to hear we're paying attention to the density and this comprehensive plan. It is not just a, it's a plan that needs to be followed and it needs the ordinances to back it up. Our current ordinances do not match the comprehensive plan and allows for all this gray area and a bunch of upset people who don't

[06:39:04] know where to go. So I charge you guys with fixing the comprehensive plan, making it in line with everything and making the ordinances and please please push a waiver to protect New Bristow we have shown we have that case thank you so much for your time thank you hold on before I have Mr. I guess Gifford Hampshire are you if you're a Fairfax resident because I have a Fairfax on here I would ask that you let the Prince William do you live in Fairfax are you here madam chairman my office is in Fairfax and I represent the estate of Dean Savage that is the next door property okay

[06:39:36] Gotcha. I just wanted to be clear. Madam Chairman, my name is Gifford Hampshire. I'm with the law firm of Blanky Ship and Keith, and I represent the estate of Dean Savage. With me is Jay Norman from Norman Real Estate, who's also a representative. Speak up the mic a little better.

[06:39:55] With me is Jay Norman, who is also a representative of the estate of Dean Savage. Madam Chairman, it certainly seems to me, based upon what I've heard tonight, that this application is not ready for prime time. And it seems to be some pretty basic problems with the planning of this area including the estate of dean savage which as mr weir said was somehow planned parks and open space even though the county has not yet purchased it for parks and open space so the the theme i'd like to leave you with start and leave you with is this area is in flux and

[06:40:30] certainly the estate of dean savage could go either way it could be planned as a park or it be planned for something else similar to what's before you tonight. As opposed to what some of the residents have said, inter-parcel connectors in general, and I understand their concerns, in general inter-parcel connectors are good ideas because they allow for alternative flow from the public streets. Now certainly there needs to be adequate streets to handle them, but one of our asks tonight is that there be an inter-parcel connection with the estate of Dean Savage. You have seen a plan that shows an interparcel connector. However, it needs to be

[06:41:09] proffered. And you've heard tonight that the plan has gone from substantial conformance to general conformance. That's pretty bad because that leaves a lot of discretion with the zoning administrator and county staff to not have an interparcel connector. Similarly, we've also asked, our other ask is that there be an easement to the property of Dean Savage that would allow for utilities.

[06:41:31] And that has not been complied with by the applicant. It's prudent planning to have an easement that allows for connection of utilities. Our proposal has been that that easement be granted at the time of site plan. That allows for engineering. We've also asked, because this property is, as you see here, rural property, that there be a six-foot board-on-board fence that would protect it because the proposal plans for the elimination of the natural screening you see there, which is indigenous screening, which the county prefers over little evergreens, those evergreens and those trees, excuse me, they're mature trees, will be destroyed,

[06:42:12] and you're not going to replace them with anything substantial with a few evergreens pursuant to the buffering standards. So if that's going to happen, we certainly need a six-foot board and board fence, as opposed to the Bristow Village property to the north. This is a rural property. The county is even designated as parks and open space, And therefore, it needs to be protected.

[06:42:32] The limits of disturbance are right at the property line. And therefore, that's going to really negatively impact this property. But we also need the utility connection, and we also need the interparcel connection proffered, not just shown with general conformance on the GDP, but proffered, so that there's no discretion by staff or the zoning administrator later to ignore it.

[06:42:54] And those are our asks. We've asked the applicant to do that, and they have not honored that request. And we hope you will. Thank you. thank you next speaker please good evening board Anand Desai one of the new Bristow Village residents in Brentsville district I'm here with I'm here with my children Matthew Andrew and Jacob Desai we live right across from the pool and common shared common areas next to Brian here

[06:43:30] and so these would be just some of the dozens of children that would be endangered by the inter-parcel connector that we ask you to commit tonight to removing from this project, and also I ask that you have the project changed so that it's not teed up for an inter-parcel connector to New Bristow Village, and the parcel has adequate connectivity and accessibility in its own right by the docked standards. The inter-parcel connection would bring lots of traffic that,

[06:44:10] you know, bypassing busy, frankly overly busy Route 28 through the arteries that separate our houses from the common areas. That is, this mix of single-family houses on fairly small lots and townhomes that we have next to a shared common area is, I think, an excellent plan that the county should support it it's it makes efficient use of space efficient use of roads and decreases housing costs but that's not that's not sustainable and that's not something anybody

[06:44:45] can plan on committing to if it's going to be disrupted by cut through traffic from the next development down the line i also for the the general ambience of the region and considering this is an area that's more focused on open space than access to, say, the shared amenities of a more urban area. I'd ask that the density generally be decreased to what is contemplated by the range

[06:45:16] in the comprehensive plan. There is a lot of land available in the region that would serve the public interest, as well as each individual neighborhood by, say, being developed for denser residential rather than data centers.

[06:45:39] This is not the right place to do it. So please stick with what your comprehensive plan that staff has diligently planned envisions. Sustain confidence in our county and in our community's common areas and quality of life, and protect these guys by committing now to blocking the interpersonal connection, and I also ask that you reduce the density.

[06:46:10] Thank you. Thank you, and thank you for bringing those young residents. Next speaker, please.

[06:46:26] Hi, I'm Brooke Stevenson, and I vote no for connecting our neighborhoods for kids' safety.

[06:46:43] It's really dangerous for kids like me and my siblings to walk around and hang out with their friends while a lot of cars are passing by. I live next to the end point where the neighborhoods are going to be connected. And me walking my dog and going to school could be really dangerous for the probability of me being run over by a car.

[06:47:06] Thank you. Give it up to my daughter, Brooke Stevenson. All right, we're not supposed to clap, but it's cute, so I'm sorry.

[06:47:26] No, thank you for your time, and thank you for allowing me to come up to speak. My name is Jeffrey Stevenson. I am a resident of New Bristol Village. As everybody else has come up already said, you know, obviously New Bristol Village is against the interparcel connection, so I won't be the dead horse on that.

[06:47:43] Yes, I am against that, as my daughter has kind of stated here. But a couple things that I would like to add is Supervisor Vega, you kind of mentioned it earlier, and Supervisor Ware just stepped out. Also mentioned it, I mean, we don't have a long-range plan analysis that was conducted on this particular parcel.

[06:48:04] Another thing that's also missing is a build-out analysis of the county. The last time we've done one was 2021. So for the past three years, we haven't had a build-out analysis. So do we actually need these amount of homes in this area? There's other developments already ongoing.

[06:48:20] The application is already submitted. And we have no idea if we actually need the amount of homes that are coming across. Next thing I would like to also highlight is, yes, the developer or the applicant has put in work to lower the density as we can see they're putting in a waiver at the last minute these are things that we've been talking to the developer to the applicant about for months for over a year now and they're waiting to the very last minute to kind of push that through and say hey yes look we compromised we heard your voices and we're doing what you asked us to do at the very last minute

[06:48:55] making the job hard for you guys as well as the county to stay up last minute to try to modify or update their reports, and I think that's unsat there. They didn't do their due diligence, and now they're pushing that on to y'all to force this vote through, which I think is wrong.

[06:49:13] So please vote no for the Thomas Farm development. Please push for a lower-density property to do a proper transition from a 2.7 units per acre to either a 2.7 or lower and transition into the rural area as you should.

[06:49:34] Thank you. All right, next speaker, please. Thank you. Next speaker. Hi, good evening, Supervisors. My name is Kristen Buck with Reese Broome, and I am the attorney for New Bristow Village Homeowners Association. So we are here tonight, obviously, to voice our objection to the interparcel connection between Thomas Farm and New Bristow Village.

[06:49:59] The whole reason why this interparcel connection came to light and arose was because of the increased vehicle trips that are proposed to be generated from the Thomas Farm development. So based on the county's design and construction standards manual, if a development is going to generate more than 2,500 vehicle trips per day, then the development should have two access points to a state-maintained road. What was identified by the applicant and by the county was obviously Noakesville Road, but also Walter Taylor Road, which is a residential local street located within the New Bristow Village community.

[06:50:35] However, there is also a provision of the Design and Construction Standards Manual that allows for a waiver of that requirement for the two access points to state-maintained roads. And the applicant has met that threshold. In reviewing the agenda today, I did not see the justification set forth by the applicant when requesting this waiver before the board tonight.

[06:50:56] It's waiver 2025-00117. However, I would like to raise some of the justifications that the applicant provided to you. I also emailed these to you guys this morning. First, as constructed, which many of our people raised tonight, Walter Taylor's roads do not meet the current standards to accommodate the increased vehicle trips.

[06:51:21] When New Bristol Village was developed, it was developed with conditions, and that applicant also sought waivers from the design and construction standards manual. Our roads right now cannot accommodate more than 400 vehicle trips per day.

[06:51:36] And based on the transportation plan and conversations with transportation, we were advised that the increased number of vehicle trips through the inter-parcel connection will be 450 per day. That exceeds the number that our roads can currently accommodate as New Bristow Village exists today.

[06:51:57] And the biggest concern we have with this is we don't believe that this conforms with the comprehensive plan at all. specifically for housing policy that one of the guidelines and focus is to enhance existing communities. Obviously, having increased vehicle trips on roads that cannot accommodate it is not going to be enhancing or preserving New Bristow Village. Second, it does not address the concerns and the priority of safety for all modes of users, right? So increased traffic through our community is going to impact not just vehicular traffic, but also pedestrian. Second, this was noted earlier by the applicant, currently the county does not have a reserved right-of-way

[06:52:36] over the association's common area. So where Walter Taylor Road is anticipated to connect to Thomas Farm is over Parcel C, which is common area owned by the New Bristow Village Homeowners Association. There is no current reserved right-of-way and there's no easement right for the county. So in order to construct this inter-parcel connection, it would require the county to actually take the association's property and pay its just compensation.

[06:53:02] Third, I'm sorry, but we've hit time. Okay. Well, thank you so much, though. Thank you. I'm sorry. I thought I was allowed five minutes. You have to request it at the beginning, start of your speaking time. I think everyone here has said similar things that I did. Thank you. Well, thank you so much.

[06:53:19] We're now going to go to remote public comment time, so I'm going to turn it over to Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Madam, how many folks do we have online tonight? Nine. Okay. All right. So, Ms. Van, shall we begin? Yes, your first speaker is Susan Peterson.

[06:53:39] Hi there, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Please proceed, Ms. Peterson. Hi there. So I just want to reiterate, I'm a New Bristol Village resident, and I want to reiterate that I, along with my fellow neighbors, strongly oppose the rezoning of the Thomas Farm development and the interparcel connection.

[06:54:05] I think it's imperative that the vote, the board votes to approve the waiver for the interparcel connection and uh making sure that we don't have this interparcel connection coming through our neighborhood i think everyone has talked about all the reasons for that and i'm not gonna beat a dead horse here but i would like to say that this is the first time i've spoken at a meeting i've come to a couple of others but as somebody in the business community i am appalled and highly disturbed that so many changes were made to a proposal that was being submitted to the board and to the community really uh and it was accepted just over 24 hours ago and now we're

[06:54:43] supposed to be taking all of this in you know a lot of what we had planned to speak and say was based on the proposal that was out there previously before the last 24 hours uh so i just uh you know i i can see now how this uh this proposal was initially allowed to go through on you know, a late December day or night, I should say, initially. And it's just not the way we should be doing business. But again, I just want to state that I am one voice with my entire neighborhood that has spoken already that I am completely against the rezoning of this

[06:55:21] neighborhood next door to be so dense. And that tonight, we should definitely vote on at least the interparcel connection. If we're even if we're going to defer this because of the late submission and all of the other issues that were brought up thank you very much thank you miss peterson next speaker please your next speaker is rachel ellis good evening um rachel ellis gainsville district i am asking you to deny or defer to get the density down the density is too

[06:55:59] high it's not smart growth um to double density as we transition into our rural areas infrastructure the roads, the schools cannot support it. This application is basically triggering the school board to do redistricting. And it's just kind of, it's telling to me, I guess. The same developer is looking to develop more off the Vent Hill Road area, and you're setting a bad precedence

[06:56:37] by not requiring sufficient proffers for roads, schools, parks, emergency services. This community has been actively engaged for well over a year with this project. Listen to them. They want to be heard.

[06:56:53] That's exactly what one man said tonight. We want to be heard. You might be asking kind of like, why is a Gainesville district resident even concerned about this? And a lot of it has to do with the comp plan because this is what the comp plan is doing. It is bringing high-density housing into rural areas.

[06:57:11] And they're areas that do not have proper structure or infrastructure for roads, for schools. And it's a holistic view that the county needs to look at for quality of life of residents across the county when you guys are approving these high-density housing developments.

[06:57:31] My request is for you to deny it or defer it and get the density down, something that's more in line with as you're transitioning to the rural area. And that's all I got. Thank you. thank you so much next speaker please your next speaker is allison deckert hello my name is allison deckert i live in the brunsville district in new bristol village thank you for providing me with this opportunity to address my concerns tonight thomas farms as a whole concerns me due to density school crowding traffic on 28 and traffic through our neighborhood i propose i oppose part of me the thomas farms rezoning um and particularly the interpartial connection

[06:58:11] As mentioned by almost everyone, the roads in New Resto Village are very narrow. The most crowded streets are around and are on Walter Taylor Road. Not only is this a very crowded and narrow cul-de-sac, but it is also a short street. It's only about one-tenth of a mile. So the potential residents coming in and out of Thomas Farms would have to make an almost immediate turn onto another residential street within our neighborhood.

[06:58:35] And not just any residential street, but going by our clubhouse and our pools, a very pedestrian-heavy area. As a mom whose daughter crosses the street every day to get to the bus in the morning and the afternoon, the idea of a potential 700 cars being there while she's trying to cross the road are really scary.

[06:58:54] But especially just for pedestrians in general. If you're ever in our neighborhood, you are always going to see runners and walkers and, in the morning, small children. I am asking you to support the waiver proposed by Supervisor Gordy to remove the inter-parcel connector to New Bristow Village. I believe that Thomas Farm neighborhood does have potential, but at its current density and the potential connection to New Bristow Village, it needs to be removed.

[06:59:16] Thank you. It needs to be reviewed, pardon me. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Deckard. Next speaker, please. Your next speaker is Michael Windy. Thank you for allowing us to voice our concerns with Thomas Farms.

[06:59:32] My name is Mike Windy. I am a resident of New Bristow Village. my wife and i have three boys between the ages of nine and three my older two boys are constantly outside playing with not only their neighbor friends around our house but they have five cousins who also live in new bristol village in two separate homes between my sisters and brothers-in-law it wasn't long ago that two drunk drivers were racing through our neighborhood directly in front of my sister's house on new bristol village boulevard in the middle of the day and one of them slammed her into her parked car in the street totaling both vehicles luckily no one was injured including the driver but that main entryway road is already seeing dangerous

[07:00:09] traffic connecting new bristol village to thomas farms will increase daily daily traffic through our neighborhood by hundreds of cars per day my nine-year-old is getting very close to being old enough to ride his bike over to his cousin's house house within our neighborhood and that trip from my house to my sister's spans the entirety of new bristol village 700 additional cars through the neighborhood will greatly increase the amount of vehicles that he'll have to confront before safely making his way over to their homes. My house is on Iron Brigade, a street that represents the only entryway that allows full avoidance of traffic lights from our neighborhood to Route 28 until you reach the intersection of Target and Wawa. This plan will most definitely increase

[07:00:49] traffic all the way to my street for that very reason of avoiding stoplights on Route 28 if you're headed in that direction. Each winter we start seeing snow on the ground. There's always children sliding down the hill in front of my house across Fristow Station Battlefield. Those children often sled right out into the street beyond the bottom of the hill and as traffic already is where it requires somebody to be at the bottom of the hill to look both ways to make sure no cars are coming before the children sled down. Increasing traffic will greatly increase the risk that a child is hit by a car especially one that cannot stop or swerve as quickly on slick roads. So I ask the board to approve the waiver for the removal of Thomas

[07:01:28] Farm interparcel connector and lower the density of Thomas Farms as proposed today. I agree wholeheartedly with Supervisor Gordy, especially on narrowing the gap in the new Thomas Farms neighborhood directly across from Walter Taylor Road. There is no reason for that gap as presented today other than a future connection to our neighborhood and risk lives of our children.

[07:01:49] Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Windy. Next speaker, please. Your next speaker is Mayor Patel. Hi, good evening, everyone. Members of the board, I appreciate your time. My name is Mayor Patel, and I currently reside in the New Bristol Village neighborhood in the Brentsville District with my wife, two young daughters ages two and five, and my elderly in-laws. We live on General Kirkland Drive located towards the rear of the neighborhood which intersects at the corner of Walter Taylor Road which I am in support of the waiver to eliminate the inter-parcel connector. We moved

[07:02:28] to Bristol from Fairfax County this past year's life primarily drawn to tranquility, quietness, and safe environment. My father-in-law reported on multiple occasions when we moved in observing only seven cars traveling down General Kirkland Drive throughout the entire day, a stark contrast to where we previously lived. For those that know, we appreciate the sounds of the nearby train, the small airplanes that take off and land at Manassas Regional Airport, but the proposed development threatens that peaceful lifestyle for us. The development plan includes hundreds of new homes and an estimated 700-some additional vehicles traversing through New Bristol Village,

[07:03:06] which significantly impacts existing roadways and resident safety. This increase in traffic directly contradicts the reason that we personally chose Bristol, which was to escape the congestion and traffic concerns we experienced in Fairfax. And just to add, furthermore, many of the residents here are government employees, military personnel, federal contractors who rely heavily just on the broader on VRE, which I don't know if has been taken into consideration for the commute, the parking, but the added strain that that will cause. I appreciate and applaud the efforts of

[07:03:45] our HOA members in addressing this issue. I urge the Board of Supervisors to carefully consider the potential negative impacts of the development on our community, more so the inter-parcel connector. I do value the opportunity to speak on this platform and let my voice be heard. That in itself is a win. However, please don't let it fall on deaf ears. In the end, we strive to do what's best for our next generation, which is our children. I don't believe the quality of life and safety should be sacrificed for the convenience or profit. Thank you. Happy holidays and over.

[07:04:18] Thank you, Mr. Patel. Next speaker, please. Your next speaker is Andrea Davis. Good evening and thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. I am joined here by my three children, three of four, who range in age from eight to 12. I am a resident of New Bristow Village. I am specifically, and I know you said don't tell you where I lived, but I do live on Walter Taylor Road, and me and my family would be directly affected by the inter-parcel connection.

[07:04:54] Just to dovetail on what everyone has said this evening, you know, there are very serious concerns that we have based on the size of our road and its ability to handle the inter-parcel connection. As a mom and as a community member, you know, one thing I pride this neighborhood on is if anyone's dog gets out, that dog is reunited with its family.

[07:05:18] If anyone's kid is wandering, and we've had that happen, that kid is reunited with their family quickly. We look out for each other, and that's something that we love about this neighborhood. When you take two separate neighborhoods and you smush them together in an unsafe scenario, you know, I do have concerns that that community nature is going to be lost.

[07:05:42] You know, my kids do play at the basketball hoop that was referenced earlier this evening. Brooke, who very eloquently spoke, is our neighbor and we are so proud of her. We just hope that you will consider that we are also constituents here and that, you know, you do take into consideration that, you know, this would not be great for our families.

[07:06:03] And side note, I drive an expedition and the thought of backing out onto Walter Taylor Road in my expedition and not causing a traffic accident is terrifying. But, you know, we support development here, responsible development, long range planning that, you know, builds these interpersonal connectors, you know, make sure they're large enough to really handle it.

[07:06:24] I mean, we see the Braemar neighborhood with a large thoroughfare with lots of neighborhoods that are that are connected there is a way to do it there is a way to do it responsibly um but i do have to protect the interest of you know our neighborhood and my children um you know they they cross walter taylor daily to get to the bus stop um and i do i do hope um that there's you know some serious scrutiny given to this development um i'm a self-proclaimed city girl if i never had to mow lawn the rest of my life you know i'd be fine i'm not opposed to development

[07:06:56] but a lot of us moved out here as the previous speaker said for a more tranquil or more rural environment and we would just hope that you know that's taken into consideration as your constituents you know that our voices are heard as well thank you miss davis as a side note my wife also drives an expedition i have to drive that thing around and the backup camera is broken so i can only imagine trying to get through a narrow road with the expedition thank you for that though next speaker please your next speaker is wendy abbott good evening i'm wendy abbott i'm

[07:07:34] in new bristow village um i am going to beat the same drum that everybody else has built i've been beating um the interpersonal connection needs to have that waiver um the density of the thomas farm development is just too high to be going through our neighborhood we already have the new bristol village 500 i have a seven-year-old and a 10-year-old who play outside with brooke with

[07:08:04] the davis kids you it is a safety concern for our neighborhood we we already have issues with speeding somebody coming from another neighborhood trying to get to the main thoroughfare will unendoubtedly be speeding through our neighborhood so i i'm not opposed to development i do not fault the thomas family for wanting to sell their land i just want it done properly responsibly for our area that is all thank you miss abbott and miss fan by my account we have two folks left is that

[07:08:43] right that's correct next speaker please your next speaker is jessica grove good evening supervisors um my name is jessica grove and i live in the gainsville district um and not to reiterate what everybody else has said but i wish you would look at this holistically i think this this is not ready for prime time the changes that have been made um in the last 24 48 72 hours it's just it's too

[07:09:22] much um and how this land was just kind of snuck in or rolled in or whatever you whatever term you want to put into it for the comp plan i think was irresponsible and deceitful um so i would like this to be something where you look at this holistically for the county and putting in four plus houses per acre is it's just too dense for the location that it's on um i i don't think

[07:09:57] anybody has said that they are against um new homes being built or being developed and i think that's great i think we need it um i just think it's too dense and it's it's too easy for the developer to for the next piece of land to say well we had four houses on the last acre so last development we're just going to do five this time we're going to do six this time and it's just going to creep up and up and up and we're going to have a the city of noakesville is just or brentsville is just going to turn into another reston and it's just i wish you would look at this

[07:10:32] as preserving some rural space turning this into a livable community or somebody a place where people want to live. So, thank you very much. Thank you, Ms. Grove. Last speaker, please. Your last speaker is Elena Schlossberg. My name is Elena Schlossberg, and I live in the Gainesville District, and I would like five minutes, please, as the Executive Director for the Coalition to Protect Prince William. Sure thing, Ms. Schlossberg, please proceed. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[07:11:07] So, first of all, I want to congratulate the community that has turned out. You all have done a fantastic job. You have given reasons, explanations of why you are concerned about this development, your quality of life, safety. I haven't talked a lot about schools, but the fact that we are now using redistricting as opposed to proffers is of concern. So I think what you are experiencing is what happens when you have incompatible zoning. The Bristow Village was a result of the Noakesville sector plan, if memory serves me correctly. And there was concern then

[07:11:46] that this was going to trigger sprawl. And for 20 years, that did not happen until the adoption late night of the 2040 comp plan, which I remember well. I was very concerned about the last minute additions of what I considered something that would be akin to spot zoning.

[07:12:10] We have gone from looking at good planning practices, and we have sacrificed those for favors and for high-density development where it doesn't belong.

[07:12:29] I was there earlier today in Chambers, and I really appreciated Supervisor Angry wanting to fast track in some ways redevelopment in the Neabsco district because he wanted to improve opportunities and he wanted to have density where it belonged.

[07:12:50] And I appreciated that, which is shocking that we are here because we've gone from looking at smart growth models like redevelopment where it belongs, like high density housing where it's walkable, where you have appropriate road infrastructure, where you have bus transit.

[07:13:10] I remember that was a very important part of that conversation that Supervisor Bodie had with Supervisor Angry about why this was good development. None of that exists here. I also want to point out that I didn't hear all of it, but I did hear some of the presentation by the water presentation.

[07:13:30] And enough is not talked about the loss of open space being replaced by impervious surfaces. And it is clear that this parcel is going to trigger Thomas Farm.

[07:13:49] It's going to trigger more sprawl. Sprawl is bad. It requires more infrastructure dollars. It is a loss of open space. And once again, you're talking about rural spaces in Prince William County that we hold a very unique role in protecting the Aquapon Reservoir watershed.

[07:14:09] And the more watershed we lose in these bases that not only filter the surface water that run into the Aquapon Reservoir, but also afford the groundwater recharge. And we are not thinking about that. I loved it when Supervisor Vega talked about how land use is directly connected to our goals of climate change and reducing carbon emissions.

[07:14:35] We cannot afford to promote bad development. And this is just simply too dense. You hear this community talking that they cannot absorb this kind of development. And there was a reason why, because it was not intended to withstand this kind of traffic infrastructure from the Thomas farm.

[07:14:59] We went from a rural preservation study where we were looking at a transitional ribbon, which would have allowed, as opposed to one home per 10 acres, it would have allowed four homes per 10 acres.

[07:15:16] I think that was triple density, triple, quadruple density. And now you're talking about four homes per acre. We are not developing appropriately. We are not developing with infrastructure concerns in mind.

[07:15:35] And we certainly are not developing with the community in mind. So this development should absolutely be denied. It was adopted into the comp plan last minute with no oversight. It is way too dense. You need to listen to the community.

[07:15:51] We need to start having more opportunities besides either high-density housing and rural spaces where it doesn't belong or data centers for all. You can see that this is not – Prince William County deserves better, and I believe this board can do better.

[07:16:08] Thank you, and have a good night. Thank you, Ms. Lossberg. And thank you, Ms. Vann, as always, for your assistance. And back to you, Madam Chair. all right we have two people who accidentally signed up on public comment time who want to be a part of the public hearing so i'm going to call them up before we close out the public hearing mr allen thomas and mr scott jacobs and again you have three minutes say your name magisterial

[07:16:37] district good evening chair jefferson and members of the board thank you so much for having us this evening my name is scott jacobs and i reside in the brentsville district almost a lifer there It's really good to see the incredible passion that has come from the members of the New Brista Village neighborhood. I've lived in this area long enough to remember when your neighborhood

[07:17:11] looked much like Mr. Thomas's farm. That was over two decades ago. So how long is long enough is the question 20 years 40 years 60 years 80 years over 100 years this family has resided as good stewards of this land farming this land members of this community if it weren't for this

[07:17:43] amazing family Mr. Gordy nailed it this family is an institution of the Noakesville Bristow area If it weren't for this family, this Saturday, we would not have our Noakesville Christmas Parade. By the way, you're all encouraged and welcome to attend.

[07:18:01] It starts at 6 p.m. Mr. Thomas will be the one delivering you from your car in the parking lot so you can attend the parade. We would love to see. You would not. 4 p.m. 4 p.m. Thank you so much. The American flags that we so desperately love to see line our main street on the 4th of July Memorial Day, Veterans Day would not be possible without good people like the Thomas family. Noakesville Day, impossible. My hope is that future residents of this neighborhood are as passionate as you all

[07:18:39] were tonight. But how long is enough is the question. Professionally, I speak to you tonight as a 20-year licensed real estate professional in the local area, just right down the street from this property. I'm here to report to everybody tonight in the room that there is undoubtedly a housing crisis right now in Prince William County. Inventory is absolutely abysmal and forget about affordable housing. So the idea of having six different housing types at price points that

[07:19:15] might be below $300,000 certainly gets me excited. It gets me excited about those two teachers that I recently represented that fell in love a couple years ago in college and still cannot qualify to buy the cheapest home that we have on the western side of Prince William County. That's unacceptable.

[07:19:35] The idea of creating affordable dwelling units is something that should excite us all because at the end of the day, where do our first responders have to live and reside? They can no longer afford to live here amongst us. So when emergencies happen, how do they get here? So I stand in front of you guys this evening to say thank you for being here. Thank you for the passion. I hope that the future residents of this neighborhood, hopefully, if approved, will be as excited and passionate about where they live as you guys are today. Board, I know this is a tough and difficult

[07:20:13] decision, but how long is enough? Over one century, this family has waited to do something with their property. This is a farming family, and a farmer's last crop is their land. Please vote yes and pass this proposal. Thank you. Next speaker. My name is Alan Thomas. I'm I'm the guy that's selling this property.

[07:20:40] Speaking to the mic. Am I? Okay, yeah. Okay. What I'd like to, I kind of, I'm not real good at this, so I might have to read what it is that I have to say to you. And what it basically was, good evening to the Prince William Board of Supervisors.

[07:20:57] My name is Alan Thomas. My family and I have lived in the Brentsville District our entire lives, and thank you for letting me speak tonight. My sister and my nephew are here with me also. I also have one brother who still lives in the Noakesville area and plans to stay.

[07:21:13] Our farm has been in our family for over 100 years, as Scott has just said. It shows how much we care about farming and the people who live around us. We feel proud of our farm and want to take care of it for the future. And I believe that what's going on and happening here will take care of the farmland future going forward and helping the people that would like to live here and would like to afford to live here and do the things that they like going forward.

[07:21:47] A lot has changed around here. There are many more houses than when I was little. We didn't really want all the homes at the time, but that was over 20 years ago. But we knew that that's part of how things grow and change.

[07:22:03] So we've stayed good neighbors and understood this is how progress works. If we get the chance to rezone, it would follow the county's comprehensive plan and allow for smart, responsible land use. This could help our land grow in a way that's good for everyone, our family, our neighbors, and the environment, too.

[07:22:19] I believe rezoning our land could bring new jobs and businesses to the area, which would help to make the community stronger and keep it growing in the right way. Our family has been here for generations, and rezoning would help us keep our family's legacy alive.

[07:22:35] It's a way to honor the history of our farm while still making sure there's room for new things that can help our community. Lastly, a farmer's last crop is their land. We're not getting any younger, and farmers can't work forever. This rezoning would let us leave something behind that helps the community and honors all the hard work our family has done for over 100 years.

[07:22:57] We would really appreciate it if you could approve this rezoning so we can leave a lasting legacy in the community we love. Thank you. Thank you so much. so those are the last speakers we are now i am now going to close the public hearing for 13b i would like the applicant if you're able to um the estate of dean savage brought up the need for poppers i've heard i missed one of them but one of them was i think an inter um inter parcel connection i don't know if you miss cameron if you can address that and also you know we've talked about this you know we're moving into a parcel connector but if you can really clarify for the

[07:23:37] the audience because i want to make sure there is no confusion absolutely so um do you want me to start with dean savage yes well okay while they're pulling that up can i answer the other yes okay sorry so um specifically for the interpersonal connection for new bristow village um during public comment time the applicant provided revised proffers to both the county staff as well as the county attorney that removed proffer 24 and added a waiver

[07:24:08] of sections 302 to 50.72 of the zoning ordinance and 601.01 and 601.06 of the DCSM. We also need to add in 601.04 of the DCSM. And between the planning commission and the board, the applicant submitted their waiver specifically requiring that interpersonal connection to county transportation.

[07:24:34] it was conveyed that county transportation would not support that waiver so the only way for that waiver to be waived would be for the board to do that as part of the public hearing process which is why you did not see the applicant do that prior to the submission but the applicant did submit a waiver with justifications to county transportation county transportation reviewed that waiver it was conveyed to us that it wouldn't be supported by county transportation so it had to be done tonight at the board public hearing and then this is staff's presentation but if you all

[07:25:13] can sorry to make you dizzy we are showing so it's fine this will work just fine this is the dean savage estate here and this is from the mzp and the applicant is showing on the mzp that interparsal connection to the dean savage estate and it is shown on the mzp and it clearly states that reservation for that interpersonal connection so we do not believe that an additional proffer is needed because we're proffered to the mcp um we did convey that to mr hampshire um as part of

[07:25:49] that process all right thank you i don't know if anyone had any other quick questions before madam chair supervisor votey thank you madam chair and um miss cameron one thing that's been mentioned in in so the two main uh themes have been uh sort of visited by the community tonight has been the interparsal connection, which I think is number one on everyone's minds.

[07:26:10] I hear you on that. But number two is density. So could you talk about density, especially as it pertains to the context of New Bristow Village and the surrounding area? Yeah, absolutely. So New Bristow Village, when it was rezoned, it had several land bays. As a whole, it was 341 acres with three land bays.

[07:26:26] So land bay A was being dedicated to the park. Land bay B was residential, and it was about 188 acres. And land-based C was commercial, and it was about 22 acres. The overall density, including the park and that park dedication, was 1.5 dwelling units an acre.

[07:26:43] If you take the park out of that calculation and just do the residential alone, it was 2.76 acres. But the residential was developed in phases. So if you look at phase one, which is the phase that's closest to Thomas Farm, that phase one, that density is about 4.77 dwelling units an acre.

[07:27:06] And then as you got closer to Land Hall Road, that density decreased, and that's where you got to that commercial area. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. Thank you so very much. I think you may have a seat for now. Madam Chair. Did you have anything?

[07:27:21] to go back to the dean savage um there was also a discussion about utilities um and bringing it in but your utilities are coming in from the other side correct so water itself is coming down 28 and those water utilities will stop right about here those that will be in public right-of-way and so when the savage farm or dean savage estate if they decide to redevelop it whether it's a park or something else and they need that water connection that water connection they can connect

[07:27:56] via the public easement from 28 as far as the sewer connections we are working out a sewer agreement with new bristow village that would require a pump station that would come here so it is coming from the other side but that is going to be designed at site plan but there's not a guarantee that those utilities are going to all come down here. And from my perspective, I am not interested in expanding utilities, because all that does is open up the door for future development.

[07:28:29] So that is part of the reason why I am not keen on that concept of extending the easements into the Savage Estate, because it does open up the door for future development. And so, and as they say is the water service uh sprints william water said today growth pays for growth so whatever growth comes beyond that should be at the expense of the next developer not uh at the expense of this developer because this developer is already providing a lot of infrastructure to support sewage including a pump station in order to move it uphill into the connections there um on on dean

[07:29:08] Savage. I appreciate Mr. Nelson coming to meet with me and we are looking at options for that and I know that the you know the fact that that it is parks and open space in the comp plan and I know that there are conversations with organizations that are seeking to preserve that land for future posterity for because of the battlefield is significance to the battlefield.

[07:29:33] I won't go into that because there's a lot of negotiations going on, but this is not outside. This is not being forgotten about. This is not being overlooked. We are in conversations and look forward to having future conversations.

[07:29:50] Now, in relation to the buffers along the limits of clearing, is there a way to keep the trees right between the sidewalk or the pathway? and the property line to keep from removing those trees that are currently existing.

[07:30:14] Supervisor Gordy, the challenge we have right now is because of having to have sewer go a certain way. We're going to have to grade the site a certain way, so that's the reason for bringing it. We are open to planting more trees along that area.

[07:30:29] So what we did was originally the limits of clearing and those lots came all the way up to the property line. What we have done is we have pulled them back 20 feet. So essentially you have an 8-foot trail that's stone dust, and then you have 12 feet of planted area between our development and the Dean Savage estate.

[07:30:47] It's 12 feet of planted area and 8 feet of trail. So it's a 20-feet area. So we can commit to planting trees and plantings along that area as well as with New Bristow Village. We've also walked that area with New Bristow Village and offered to plant bare areas they have using their own landscape contractor that we would pay for.

[07:31:08] And then the fence that was part of the conversation as well. So we had told the Dean Savage Estate that we would be willing to look at a four-foot fence similar to what we're doing with New Bristow Village.

[07:31:24] That is still an offer that's there. I would prefer it not to be in a proffer. I would prefer it for us to have a conversation between us and them because there may be some future discussions about whether there are back and forth easements, for example. So it just gives us the ability to do that as we sort of talk about how we approach the discussions with them.

[07:31:46] But we are open. If you so choose for us to put a four-foot fence in, that's something we're willing to do. We're putting along the door. I'm not a fan of six-foot board on board because I have them, and I just tore them all down because they are maintenance nightmares. and i just want to correct safe so that it is sorry there's an eight foot trail here but from the edge of the trail to the property line it's 20 feet um and we confirm that with our civil engineer thank you you're welcome all right are there any more i don't think there are any more

[07:32:22] questions for the applicant oh so thank you very much and thank you everyone who's obviously come out for this um you know it's time to entertain a motion um i don't know supervisor gordy okay thank you madam chair um again i want to thank everyone who came out tonight and i thank the new bristow village for not just tonight but for all the engagements i think we had three meetings uh uh two broad meetings with the community and then uh some uh additional meetings and uh thank

[07:32:59] you for um your patience as we work through this i know uh thank you for coming out thank you for all the young people coming out tonight for being here that especially on a school night i don't know if the parents gave giving you the day off tomorrow night or tomorrow or not but thank you guys for being here um this started off on the wrong foot and and and i wish it would have started off on the right foot at the comp plan um it but it's something i inherited um when i was on the

[07:33:36] Planning Commission, this project was not before us. It was not included in what we reviewed. Had it been reviewed, just like I did with many other parcels, we had conversations about it. So we have literally had to do the long-range land use elements as we've gone through this process. We're building the cars, we're driving it. And unfortunately, we're going to be dealing with us on vent hill as well we've got to figure this out um and that's why i'm not anxious with

[07:34:12] moving cases there forward quickly either um because we got to get the long-range land use right we've got to figure out what fits um and that we're we're meeting all the needs of the community um and protecting the interest of the surrounding communities um the the um i do have commend uh the applicant from the beginning has been very uh willing to work with us i i do appreciate um because i do have a great affinity for the thomas family um you know for you uh

[07:34:48] creating a uh i don't want to call it a memorial but a because you're still here um a thing to commemorate your family and remember the history because we've not done that very well in prince William County. We have not remembered our history very well, but the Thomas family has made great contributions to our community for over 100 years, and that's something that we need to remember.

[07:35:12] And we set it in stone, and we say, this family was here. This is how they contributed to our community. This is the difference that we made. And so thank you for your willingness to do that. I wish I could say that this was a perfect plan. It's not a perfect plan. I wish it was less dense.

[07:35:33] but I also can count votes, and so I know where I am. I know where I stand. And so based on that, I move to approve REZ 2023-00031 Thomas Farm at Bristow Station, subject to the proffer statement dated December 10, 2024, which does include the waivers.

[07:35:57] And is there something else? Okay. In addition, I request that during the site plan process, applicant reduce the separation between the two single-family detached units near Walter Taylor Drive, and that engagement with the planning director on general conformance also be shared with the supervisor of records office. Second. All right, discussion. We're going to go to Supervisor Weir. Thank you, Madam Chair. You know I'm having a rough night when I'm in substantial

[07:36:33] agreement, not general agreement with Giff Hampshire. There is nothing about this application of this process that I like. And unlike Commissioner Supervisor Gordy, I did not find the applicant willing to accede to anything. You know, it's interesting. It's almost ironic.

[07:36:55] We have a built-out development on one side demanding the removal of an inter-parcel connector, and we have a parcel designated as parts to an open space demanding an inter-parcel connector. I've been warning this board since I first sat up here that this was coming. This is a legacy of the comp plan process or excuse me the comp plan fiasco and it's going to be repeated how this parcel was designated for RN2 is questionable and how the neighboring parcels

[07:37:32] were designated POS even more questionable and it's an issue across this county and particularly in the Gainesville area and I have noted this over and over and over again I think we're I think we're actually going to be deciding to review those POS designations where they essentially somebody in planning took a green paintbrush and painted thousands of acres in this county you know it's interesting this is all framed in terms of adu and when the applicant first came in they couldn't reduce the density because they couldn't make the adu work had to have that density bonus that density bonus is not provided in the zoning ordinance um you know what

[07:38:07] else isn't provided in the zoning ordinance the waivers of everything that's being waived here setbacks landscape areas smaller lot sizes that was all done initially to accommodate the density bonus. The density bonus is gone. We've reduced the units, but now we're asking for even more waivers. I question whether we can even waive the zoning ordinance. I know we can waive conditions in the GCSM, but I question the propriety of waiving ordinance requirements. Are we only going to pick and choose which section of the ordinance we're going to adhere to? Are we only going to

[07:38:45] pick winners and losers because this one got planned RN2 and the other guy got planned POS in the middle of the night with no staff input we're being asked to look at this in a vacuum in a silo this has implications down the road we are setting precedents here um you know it almost looks like we're making some um quite frankly some arbitrary decisions here and you've got you've got some inter-parcel conflicts that that i've got a real problem with and then you've got a lessening of the standard from substantial conformance to general conformance which gives

[07:39:23] the applicant even more leeway. It takes it out of our hands and lays it in staff's hand and the applicant's hand and the zoning administrator. This is not the way to do proper planning. I've already, you know, as the applicant is well aware, he's the only applicant that sticks to the ADU provisions that he's got where the provisions don't apply prior to construction. Everybody else seems to be willing to comply with doing it from occupancy. This applicant does not.

[07:39:55] I can't vote in favor of this. I don't think it's ready for primetime. I believe Mr. Hampshire was correct. It's not ready for primetime in a number of ways. And quite frankly, I don't like small amendments to come to the board in the form of essentially a motion at the desk the night of a meeting to have an application with this many pages dropped on us yesterday afternoon. I've been in board meetings all day. Most of you have. Nobody's had time to review it. I doubt staff has had adequate time to review it. I believe the county attorney's office hasn't had time to review it, and we still got the question of Profer 18 and whether it's even legally enforceable.

[07:40:35] So, Madam Chair, I would offer a substitute motion. I believe in order to give staff appropriate time, and that's all staff, not just planning, I believe transportation needs to look at it. Given their opposition to the interparcel connection removal, I'd be curious what their position on a new interparcel connection is, as well as wetlands, the county arborist, and everybody else, since everything is being waived in here, I would move to defer to a date certain January 21st. Madam Chair, I'm going to second his motion. All right. Supervisor Vega has seconded the motion. So that is what is on the floor. Just so that I am clear procedurally, do we, you know, should we take a vote or do we continue to debate the merits of this application

[07:41:14] on the subject? Okay. On the substitute motion. So I have a lot of people. I'm sorry. My screen went down okay okay hold on we're gonna but up my hit the wrong key so this is all right all right we're back all right so so we are going to be all gonna

[07:41:52] green yeah my screen it's not working all right so we're gonna have to get Steve we're gonna have to leave my somatic tissue no okay okay so I'm gonna be kind of tricky because, you know, I don't, Supervisor Gordy, I guess, do you have anything you want to say on this and to see I go down? So in terms of a deferral and what is to be achieved

[07:42:28] so that I understand what you're specifically seeking, can you please outline specific things that you want addressed in a deferral? I have not had time, given all the meetings that we've had today, quite frankly, all the other things I need to do to look at the new application and determine what impact, if any, and I suspect they don't have any impact in terms of reducing the number of reduced setbacks, reduced landscape areas, smaller lot sizes, you know, whether this is even less in accordance with the zoning ordinance than it was previously. You know, there are so many

[07:43:08] unknowns here. You know, does it impact the wetland impact? Does it increase the open space? Does it decrease the open space? It was already deficient on open space. Does it address the tree cover issues. There are any number of things that were raised in the staff report, and I don't know if these proffer changes and these site plan changes impact any of those. My suspicion is they make them worse. But I'd like to hear that from staff, and I'd like staff to have the opportunity to do an honest and decent review of the application, given the substantive nature of the changes, both to the site plan and the proffers, and then we still have to deal with proffer 18.

[07:43:48] All right. Supervisor Orte. So when you and I spoke last week, I shared with you the direction we were going on this case, and the intent was to reduce the density and that we were to eliminate the interparcel connector.

[07:44:07] The changes in the report and the proffers basically accomplished those two things. And so other than that, there were no other changes. The general conformance piece is something that is necessary for us to be able to move the houses into the easement of where the interparcel connector was going to take place.

[07:44:34] And so it is very specific. And then the only other issue for the general conformance, everything will remain the same except for working with the service authority to locate the sewer pump on the site. So I just want to make sure that, you know, from what is being accomplished with the changes, It is the reduction and the adding.

[07:44:58] I actually asked for a third type of housing, and we have six types of housing. And you've heard me say this. We have too few housing types in this county. And because of that, prices keep going up at a rate that people can't afford, and that's what's causing our affordable crisis is because in my district, we built out of the past 4,000 units that were approved in my district in the last decade, 90% of them were townhouses.

[07:45:29] So there is no market for housing other than townhouses in the Brentsville District right now. I think there's maybe one neighborhood off of 15 that has some single-family units in it that are new construction. Other than that, it's what color townhouse do you want?

[07:45:44] That's your choice. And so in order to address the affordable issue within the county, we've got to offer people options. And it doesn't mean we necessarily have to have ADUs to accomplish that. But what we have to do is affect the market and market forces by creating better supply that better meets the demand.

[07:46:05] And only having two housing types isn't going to accomplish that. And so that's why I specifically asked to add another housing type in order to accomplish this. And so we reduced, we eliminated 28 townhouses and got eight duplexes.

[07:46:23] And these eight duplexes are actually high-quality units that NVR builds. so they're actually very good-looking homes and so and then their location was in a in in proximity to new bristow village which moves the townhouses further away from from their community so um so in terms of the um the changes that we're looking at and that and the the waivers and the modifications if you want to speak to those directly related to the the housing um on that due to the changes to the housing types um we can speak to that and and better understand that

[07:47:02] and and and again and i will say i apologize to the board i've apologized the applicant i've apologized to our planning staff i've been talking to our planning staff for since our last meeting that this was coming uh we've been working on this um and and i wish i could have gotten ahead i have 65 planning cases in my district i know about not having time to look through things um And so, I mean, I go day in, I start at 8 o'clock in the morning and go to 5 o'clock and it's nothing but land use cases every single hour, sometimes two an hour, because that's how overwhelmed we are.

[07:47:40] And so trying to make sure that we can get these things right, sometimes a little challenging. And so, but we've dedicated the last two weeks to work on this. And so I take ownership of that, not the applicant. It's not on him. It's on me. And so I do apologize to my colleagues here.

[07:47:57] I apologize to the community. And I've learned big lessons through this, and we're going to do better going forward. And that's part of the reason why, for Ben Hill, we're coming up with plans about how we're going to accomplish this and do this in the right way instead of what we're dealing with tonight.

[07:48:20] And so, yeah, so I take full and complete ownership of that. If you would speak to the waivers and modifications related to the duplex units. Absolutely. Madam Chair, we've got a motion on the table and discussion is closed. I'd like to respond.

[07:48:36] I don't have an issue with the unit types. I don't. And with respect to general versus substantive, I would suggest that the conditions you laid upon the motion obviate the need for general so it can go back to substantive. I don't think there's any issue there.

[07:48:53] My issue isn't the type of units. My issue is non-compliance with the rest of the zoning ordinance, which was established to define what type of development, what type of standards we have. If we're just going to waive all standards in terms of affordable housing, which we're now saying we're not getting, but we're accomplishing through the unit type, nobody's asking him to change the unit type.

[07:49:20] It's just to provide the setbacks, the landscape buffers, and everything else that we require of everything else in the county. and i'll just lay one more thing and i'll shut up on this matter it does matter with respect to vin hill because tonight we're setting the precedent we said we do this tonight then we're going to have every developer down the road on every application whether it's on vin hill in occoquan in the coles district anywhere in this county going you did it that night why aren't we why aren't we accorded the same the same um what we're going to do is we're going to go down because again the screen is my screen is not we're going to go to

[07:49:59] supervisor Franklin and then Vega sure yes thank you and thank you supervisor Gordy for your comments sometimes these cases are more complicated than we like for them to be and sometimes quite frankly we have to be fluid when it comes to board matters so everything isn't always packaged up in a pretty box with a nice bow that's the work of the board sometimes we just have to get our hands dirty and do the hard work, sometimes on the day is day of. That's just the nature of the job sometimes, unfortunately. I can tell you I met with some people about some of the challenges,

[07:50:34] particularly the interparcel connection, reducing the density. I relate those concerns, I think, over the weekend back to Supervisor Gordy, and he, you know, informed me that those changes were in the works and hoping to be made. And so I feel that he has been working on this over the weekend and working to make sure that whoever at least reached out to him, he had answers. And so I do think that, you know, we've moved into a place where we've addressed the main concerns. Obviously

[07:51:09] it's not going to be a perfect project, but in terms of the major concerns around density and that connection supervisor gordy has worked with the applicant and the community to alleviate those concerns so i am not comfortable with a deferral this family has been waiting one one way or another in terms of which direction is going to move in and so i encourage my colleagues to just vote up and down either you support the project or you don't supervisor vega if you'd like to speak yes thank you madam chair i obviously second supervisor weir's motion for several reasons and I am pretty sure that the motion to defer is going to fail so I'll reserve

[07:51:47] my reasons for not supporting this project because I don't plan on supporting it but you know I'm going to hang my hat on you know the density because that's the underlying issue here and it's unfortunate that we're missing out on an opportunity an opportunity to actually make the project better I think that you all sitting here and those watching at home have heard speaker after speaker saying that they're not opposed to a development on this property it's just how we develop it right the the integrity the character the history of the thomas family and what they've done um and their contributions to the community to the county is not in question it's never been

[07:52:23] this is a land use matter and we have to see it for what it is a land use matter how is this going to negatively impact the area the schools transportation on top of everything else that we have to consider for the other projects that are coming to this area so madam chair for those reasons i second the motion and i will reserve the rest of my comments for the original motion supervisor angry let me just be real brief here um i think the gentleman that spoke said it best when bristow came in there was negative opposition for the same thing saying the exact same thing this board is saying it's too dense it's changing the rural area of the character the character of

[07:53:02] the area literally that corridor has changed and you know to mr thomas's credit to grow up here knowing that all of that was farmland, knowing that this county was all farmland. Like, we can thank the farmers for selling their land to do what we've done with Princeton County.

[07:53:19] Did we get it right all the time? No. But I'll tell you what, I bet there were people who said we never got Bristol right all the time. And Bristol now is here. You all love your community. Got it. But the same argument is literally like Groundhog Day. We do this round and round with developments.

[07:53:36] It's kind of a hard part. I'm going to say this here. Supervisor Gordy, thank you for the work you've done with everyone involved in this, in your constituents, your citizens, the developer, every piece of the way. I've spoken with you on this. I know you were close to even deferring it yourself. You were able to pull that out together, get everything in place you need.

[07:53:54] There is no such thing as this thing ever being a perfect process. The next land use we come in here with residential is going to be the same discussion. I am not in favor of deferring this. I think you put the work in for what you have right now and where we are. and it can only get better with time.

[07:54:10] And I will say this about 2024. That development right there in that quarter is absolutely beautiful. And the amenities and everything about it is exactly how we should be building in 2024 with the variety and creating communities that are actually a state-of-the-art community.

[07:54:25] So I'm not going to be supporting this. I'm looking forward to us getting back to the original motion. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. To go along with my colleagues, I'm going to reserve most of my comments for the initial motion. I will not be supporting the deferral, part of which is the district supervisor doesn't support the deferral.

[07:54:43] And I want to honor the amount of work he has done on this project, the amount of work that his planning has done on this project, the amount of the applicant has met with the community and done on this project. To say it's not ready for prime time, I just disagree with that. There's been a lot of work put in over a great many months, you know, a year plus on this project, and it is ready for prime time.

[07:55:02] Yes, there are tweaks at the end that folks would have liked to see earlier on. It's been explained why some of those tweaks weren't possible until we're sitting here at this dais and as supervisor franklin said it happens yes it's frustrating yes we'd like to have most of these projects everything lined up we just vote up and down and move on with our lives but the nature of us work the nature of the why we sit in these seats is to be able to have conversations like this from the dais the end to make sure it's as good as possible before it moves forward so i will not be supporting the motion to deferral thank you madam chair supervisor where you've spoken a couple times so i'm going to go to Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. I won't be supporting the deferral either, and I won't be because, Tommy, you have nothing to apologize

[07:55:41] for. You work hard like we all do. We don't all understand everything when it's lined out to us, and we have to work with staff, and we have to work with the clients, and we have to keep digging until we get it right. And so I think you've done an impeccable job in doing that.

[07:55:59] It's not perfect. You are a perfectionist, but you also are a man of integrity and so I will not be supporting the deferral because as the gentleman said that was the real estate agent we need housing and we are making and crafting policies and procedures so that we can get it as right as we possibly can to support and serve the community and respect the community and what I mean by that is everybody has a seat at the table everybody has a pot everybody has a voice and I appreciate and applaud those that came tonight to lend their voice

[07:56:33] so I'll offer my other comments when we go back to the original vote thank you all right I'm just going to say something real quick before we vote I mean again this is this process is messy and I've been getting on people about process a lot you know where I stand Supervisor Gordy on process but I do appreciate first of all I appreciate the community coming out and I appreciate you working with the community I appreciate you being responsive and I will also give credit the applicant for being responsive and for working with us through these last minute changes you know this is not typically the norm for these type of

[07:57:11] projects these things happen again and a lot of this came before my time but I also know that this was supposed to come to the board I believe last month it's already a month late you know and so I do want to keep the process moving I want to be respectful of that but we will continue a lot of this discussion the original motion so let's go ahead and take a vote yell a deferral on substitute motion motion

[07:57:45] fails two to six supervisors angry bailey bodey franklin gordy and chair jefferson voting name and so now we're back to original motion which is to approve this and so i'm sorry yes we are all grayed out oh here we back we're back all righty so this is this is the original motion Going back to the original rules, everyone gets two bites of the apple, five minutes each.

[07:58:15] Supervisor Vody. Thank you, Madam Chair. Rehash a little bit of what I just said. I wanted to thank Suraz Agordi for the work he's done to this, applicant, staff, and, of course, the community. I know that this is not easy, and I know that there's been a lot of talk about the inter-parcel connection.

[07:58:32] I'll just briefly talk to you about a conversation I had with Suraz Agordi yesterday, day before, something like that. Because I will tell you, that interpersonal connection going away originally worried me because I have a very similar community in my district where they only have one egress-ingress.

[07:58:48] It's a two-lane road, and right now they're having so many issues, especially with emergency vehicles and connections, it's locked up. But as I talked to Surazer Gordy, he explained what was going on. I know that, Ms. Osborne, you met with my staff. I see this as a much different situation. And, in fact, I think to think about the kids, which is what I always think about, we need to make sure that this interpersonal connection does not happen.

[07:59:09] So I support that 100%. So that's one. On number two, there's been a lot talked about around the zoning ordinance and how we're waiving things and what have you. Well, right now, our planning department is in the middle of a comprehensive review of the zoning ordinance to have it handshaped with the comp plan.

[07:59:26] Right now, yes, we're in this gray area. Things are going to get messy. But I will tell you that part of the reason why it's happening the way it is is because this applicant working with the supervisor in the community is trying to propose something to the point that Supervisor Gordy made to provide more types of housing that we don't normally see.

[07:59:42] He hit the nail on the head. Right now, you can only choose from maybe two to three different types of housing throughout the county in most cases. That does not provide for social mobility. It does not provide for generational wealth. It does not provide for the folks that maybe live in your neighborhood and eventually live in that neighborhood or vice versa because there's no continuum of housing to allow people to develop in their lives As they become more prosperous, grow their families, there's a place that can continue to stay in their own community just down the street that's a slightly larger lot or a slightly larger house.

[08:00:13] This provides that. There's also the talk about the density. And again, I get it. I know that what was contemplated before in the previous comp plan was a lot less dense than this. But the reason I had Ms. Cameron talk about the density is that, again, when you look at the greater context of what was developed as part of New Bristow Village, A lot of what this does is try to marry that but also be less dense on the outskirts where it matters most.

[08:00:38] We're trying to have a different type of footprint here where there allows to be public spaces in the middle of this for a community to gather, for the denser housing, for it to be walkable, but also acknowledge that as you get farther away from that core, there's less density to honor that piece.

[08:00:55] The last thing I'll say about it overall is, I think it was Mr. Jacobs that said it, we're in a housing crisis. We've been in a housing crisis for a couple decades now. It's only gotten worse. Deferring things, pushing things out, continuing to diminish and water down projects and what have you does not help us get ahead of our housing crisis.

[08:01:18] Yes, we do need to always honor and look at the impacts that we're doing to the community when we look at these projects. Agree 100%. traffic schools uh fire and rescue services all those things have to be brought to bear and accounted for by this board as we vote on this stuff but what often doesn't get said is the cost of inaction on projects like this the more and more folks have to be pushed out farther and farther because they can't afford to live in this county the teachers the firefighters the baristas all those folks that used to be able to afford to live here cannot anymore and again you talk about the children i don't want to live in the county where 10 20 years from now my children will not

[08:01:55] be able to afford to live here because we failed to act on these projects, because we failed to provide more housing options, because we failed to look at things in a balanced way. Just up the street, we have several shopping centers. So it's not like people have to drive miles and miles to get the amenities. There are amenities right here. And the supervisor Gordy's negotiations with the school board, he's addressing the school issue. Again, was not happy initially when I heard about the waiver being requested, but now I get it. And again, if there's needed to be more infrastructure in the future on this when it comes to traffic and transportation, there's

[08:02:32] going to be offerings there for that as well. So for all those reasons, I will be supporting this. And for all those reasons, I will continue to beat the drum that until we have attainable housing for all in this county, we need to keep fighting. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. I grow increasingly frustrated every time that I hear some of comments from my colleagues. You can't have it both ways. We have a housing crisis, we have an environmental crisis, we have an everything crisis, but there seem to be no real viable solutions for all of these crises that we're having. So which one is it, right? Yes, the area has changed. We acknowledge that. Nobody is opposed to change. Nobody on this day is opposed to growth. Nobody

[08:03:12] on this day is opposed to development. But it is up to us to make sure that we get it right. You know, somebody talked and said, you know, we keep doing this all the time. Well, perhaps the board should stop start voting differently or perhaps this board should start demanding more out of these projects so that we don't have the community you know meeting after meeting complaining about traffic complaining about overcrowding in our schools it's a problem and it continues to be a problem and I'm going to keep saying that this is actually a missed opportunity because this area right now is not bad but with approval of this project here tonight and with

[08:03:48] everything else that's coming down the pipe guess what it is going to be a nightmare when it comes to traffic. In peak hours, it already backs up. My children went to the Noakesville School, and they're now at Brentsville District High School. Want to talk to me about overcrowding issues? I'm happy to do so after this meeting ends. The fact that we're going to talk about something doesn't solve it. It's good. It's good that we're going to talk about it, but there are no viable solutions for the problems that this project is going to present for folks in this area. I don't know about you, but I don't like my children learning out of trailers, and it happens.

[08:04:21] there is no real plan with the school board or the school division as a matter of fact as to new schools in this area and so to say that it's in the works okay great great it may and it may not happen and I'm going to hang my head on the ladder because we've seen how this goes over and over and over again the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result we keep talking about these challenges but yet we keep approving and and voting the same way over and over again without addressing the challenges that have been plaguing this county for decades. For decades. So I'm going to go ahead and read the second portion of one of the weaknesses because I talk about density. The density of the project

[08:04:59] should align with the properties to the north and then transition down to a lower density as you approach the A1 agricultural property to create a more harmonious development pattern that is consistent with land use action in the land use chapter of the comp plan. I mean it's in the staff report. It says it right there. So density is a problem. I believe that we're missing out on a great opportunity to get the project right and to use it as an example of what happens when the applicant the community and the board comes together to put a project forward that we're all mostly all going to be proud of because the community has stated over and over again that they're not opposed to it and i get frustrated because i know the shenanigans that are played

[08:05:36] played behind closed scenes let's not sit here and fool ourselves okay maybe some of these changes could have happened way sooner but they don't and you all know for what reasons they don't And I'm tired of the games that are constantly being played. To the Thomas family, I reiterate, this has nothing to do with your character, your history, your contributions to this county.

[08:05:56] This is a land use matter. And it's unfortunate that you've been put in this position as owners of this land because of the way the processes were not respected and, in my opinion, violated before this new board came into power. Because it was done in the middle of the night without proper vetting by county staff, and here we are.

[08:06:14] so please and i mean it with with with the utmost of respect and with all of my heart do not take this personally because it has nothing to do with you and there are some people that will use you all as a bargaining chip to try to make their point but trust me when i tell you that you are respected you are valued by your neighbors and your peers and this is a land use matter therefore we look it through that lens madam chair i'm going to close out with saying that um uh the reduction setbacks and smaller lot sizes through various waivers and modifications is another major concern that I have and you know I really hope that that as a board we start to think

[08:06:49] about what we're doing when it comes to these land use matters in areas that I believe in this county we can still save and not jam up and not make worse because of poor planning and poor land use decisions. Supervisor Angry. Supervisor Gordy congratulations. Me too. Supervisor Bailey. Ditto no no you know thank you Tom for being on the Planning Commission and no one else

[08:07:28] has been I haven't been I can't speak for anybody else but that gives you a level of knowledge of how to navigate through issues like this and so I respect that thank you for that thank you to the Thomas's for being here tonight and to the nephew thank you he's young I know he's like what are we doing here. But you understand in another 50 years you'll understand. So thank you all for coming tonight. Thank you for the contributions that you've given to the community. And now you're respecting your legacy. And I honor that in you. Thank you to the community that came out and spoke

[08:08:08] to us and gave us your opinion and your voices about how you feel about your community. And I honor and i respect that as well um uh and that and for me that's worth its weight in gold because this is what we're supposed to be doing we're supposed to be talking to each other even when we disagree and i know we're going to walk out and there's going to be some sad faces maybe some happy faces maybe maybe not but this is what we're supposed to be doing as human beings and so i'm going to leave that there and then uh the next thing that i'm going to say is to the applicant

[08:08:41] um timing is everything i believe that you have uh done a lot of what you can do uh you don't have to not you don't have to negotiate with us and we don't have to vote for your project but you choose to negotiate with us and to talk to tom and so i thank you for that um and trying to explain how things are with how you're trying to set up your project we are not the subject matter experts out here up here and neither are you that's why we got the planning planning department so to the

[08:09:17] planning department thank you um for what you've done to make it as easy as possible for us to understand and spending time in our offices when we do have questions on the phone or in our offices to explain how we can make this process easier you do that when we ask questions it's our responsibility to read documents digest it so we can vote in an intelligent way and so with that i will be supporting the vote 100 because i understand legacy i do understand legacy it's what you do with legacy it's what you do for with legacy that will last so that's all i

[08:09:55] gotta say thank you supervisor franklin sure yes thank you i just want to thank the residents who reached out um and where we were able to have a conversation about some of the specifics and again being able to then uh work with supervisor gordy to address some of those issues um and really to get to a place where those two major issues we were able to resolve on the day is here so thank you supervisor gordy for your work and thank you to the residents who kind of pointed out those main issues one thing i do want us to keep in mind moving forward with regards to the adu and ami

[08:10:33] you know approving at 80 and higher really gets to your medium income which is important obviously. And there is a gap, as we can see, particularly for middle-income Americans that need as much support as others. But I also want us to be mindful on projects moving forward that we really need to come down on the AMI and really support affordable housing in its definition, right? And so when we talk about medium income, we're still not addressing, at least in my opinion,

[08:11:08] in a high enough regard affordable housing right and so when I think about affordable housing I think about the percentages being a lot lower than 80 percent so I just want us to keep in mind as we think about projects moving forward for us to legitimately be able to address the affordability discussion now what's helpful here I forgot who I think it was safe that mentioned the lowest price point is likely to be around 295. Mid price point will be around three to four, with the highest price point knocking at your higher levels. And so I do appreciate those ranges, because the 295

[08:11:46] would be a steal these days for something nice. But obviously, we're still dealing with somewhat of a housing bubble. And who knows what that will look like once that is burst. So thank you all for the work that you've done, this is very complicated. The housing economy that we're in right now nationally is very complicated. Even if you look at the housing from a global perspective, other countries are dealing with the same issue. As a matter of fact, there are some countries who can't actually provide enough people for the housing that they have. So that causes a totally separate issue. But I think this is important. We have to do the best that we can. I think that we have. So

[08:12:24] thank you supervisor thank you madam chair in the interest of time i'll just associate my comments with everything supervisor vega said and i mean everything um i can be called a lot of things one thing i won't deny being called is consistent and i've been consistent for years on this i was given a similar turd of a project i inherited it i had to polish that turd but you

[08:12:58] know something the density of that project is far less i have the same type mix of units you know what I didn't have to give up? I didn't have to give up open space. I didn't have to give back setbacks. I didn't have to give back landscape buffers. Everything that everybody else is getting in the county, they're not getting here. But I think we're setting ourselves up. We're discussing waiving an interparcel connector. We're talking about the adjoining parcels on the other side.

[08:13:34] And we seem to be prescribing what the use of Mr. Hampshire's client's property is. We don't want to extend a utility easement there because that would further development there. We don't, you why? Because somebody painted it POS instead of RN2? It's also funny that it's been said that, you know, members of this board will go along with the wishes of the district supervisor. I guess that only applies in terms of residential units, because it sure as hell doesn't apply with

[08:14:09] data centers. I can't remember the number, I can't count the number of substitute motions to approve a data center over the district supervisor's objections. Let me talk about, Supervisor Supervisor Franklin's right. We don't address 80% and less appropriately. In fact, we don't address it at all for the most part. And here's why. Because it doesn't involve housing units for sale

[08:14:45] that make these guys the best bang for their buck. You want to address under 80%? You know how you address that? You address that through apartments. If you're a barista making $13 an hour with no credit rating, no credit history, and no bank account, guess what? You're not eligible to buy a house. Nobody's going to approve you for a loan. You know what you're going to do? You're going to have to rent some place. I did. Last thing I'm going to say is this. At the end of the day,

[08:15:21] at some point in the near future, whether it's Mr. Hampshire's client or somebody else on Vent Hill, this is going to get thrown back in our face or the manner in which decisions with this were made or comp plan decisions were made on surrounding uses or other uses along the Vent Hill corridor or anywhere else where last-minute changes were made, we're going to hear about it.

[08:15:49] You know we're going to hear about it eventually is in court. And when they bring it to us here and they bring it to us in court, I'm going to say the four words that I have to say constantly and I hate. I told you so, and I'll leave it at that.

[08:16:06] All right, Supervisor Gordy, I'm going to speak before you go because I am assuming that you might be actually closing this out. We'll see. We haven't really had a good discussion on housing, which is kind of what's underpending this. You know, we have a lot of people throwing different things back and forth, but we really haven't had a good discussion on housing.

[08:16:28] And, you know, there are things I'm hearing that I do find very troubling. Everyone wants development, but they want a certain type of development, okay? They want a certain type of development. We have a housing shortage.

[08:16:43] We have a housing crisis, but we're not really addressing it, okay? We're not really addressing it in a meaningful way because, one, we're not having discussions. And people have fear of development. Yes, I understand. It does bring traffic. That's something we have to mitigate. You know, I appreciate your comment, Supervisor Vega.

[08:16:59] You don't like kids learning out of trailers. Neither do I. That's one of the reasons I've always said education is very important. Why I'm a big proponent of education funding and why we are going to talk about the CIP process next week when we meet with the school board. We have to have these discussions.

[08:17:16] You know, there is a need for housing at all income levels, not just affordable housing. But people get tired of hearing my story, but I keep telling it for a specific reason because I've lived this. When I was working on Capitol Hill, making $58,000 a year, sharing a one-bedroom apartment in the city of Alexandria with my son for two years, I did that so that I could afford to buy a place because it meant more stability than renting an apartment.

[08:17:44] When I had my own mortgage, I had more control of my destiny than when I was renting from someone else who could raise my rent with whatever percentage they wanted. You know, home ownership still is the American dream, and it is still a pathway to financial security in this country.

[08:18:05] We don't have enough housing. Now, we're talking about density. Density, you know, Supervisor Gordy, again, not a fan of the process, but I do appreciate you really working hard with the applicant. I do appreciate the community, you know, making your concerns clear to all of us on this dais so that they can be addressed.

[08:18:27] I'm afraid of us looking back in a few years, and I'm not afraid of us overbuilding, but thinking how we could have done projects better, because we do have a growing population. This metropolitan region is growing, but we also have people who are afraid of growth.

[08:18:48] We have people who are afraid of growth and what that looks like. I live in Montclair. I will tell you, on Van Beren and 234, you know, there was open space that I really didn't want to see develop, but you know what? It's been developed. there's a church on that corner, and I sometimes go to that church. You know, there's a shopping center there that I sometimes frequent, sometimes a little too much. But we are a growing county, and we are a growing community, and we should not be afraid of that. That is better than the alternative. That is much better, because the alternative is that you are stagnant or that you

[08:19:24] are dying. We have people that want to live in this community, and that, you know, that shows that we have come a long ways. I get people like living in a certain community and you get used to it. You get used to things being the same, but things do change and we cannot be afraid of change because change is not necessarily or inherently bad. Change is different. And when you stop embracing change, when you want things to be the same, when you want the status quo at all times,

[08:19:59] then you're afraid and you're afraid of life because there may be a new community that you guys are proud to live with. You know, there may be a new community next to you where your kids are going to have new best friends, where you're going to make new friends yourself. And my biggest thing is that we in this community, we in Prince William County are too afraid of change. We are too afraid to live and to see what happens next. Again, Supervisor Cordy, I do appreciate the work. You Now, I'm giving you a little bit of hard time in the process because it's fun.

[08:20:33] But I do appreciate that you have gotten concessions, that you have been responsive to your constituents, to the comments that you've received.

[08:20:49] You know, so I am voting in favor of it. And again, you know, talk isn't just talk. We have to get to a place where we all understand and decide how our county is going to grow collectively. That's where I stand. And that's why I'm very much a fan of having open dialogue and having open discussion.

[08:21:07] So with that, Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate everything my colleagues have said, and I do take all of it to heart. I do want to point out something, though. You know, I was moved into the Linton Hall corridor in the 2000s, and we were looking at 5,000 units being built per year.

[08:21:32] And the schools would only build a school once the other schools got overcrowded. We are changing the narrative. We are changing the narrative. And I'm, you know, yeah, it is a plan related to the schools, but it was a plan we've never had before.

[08:21:57] It was purely reactive. We are finally engaging the leadership and the school board to help come alongside us and help us work through this as a partner rather than a reaction.

[08:22:15] They're catching up, but we have been engaging with them since January. Since I got sworn in the office, we started meeting with the schools because I looked at the comp plan and I said, the one area that isn't part of the comp plan are schools, and we need them at the table.

[08:22:35] And they are joining us and helping us solve this, and I look forward to our conversation next week. But, you know, again, the challenge that we have before us, yes, we do need housing, but we've got to do it well.

[08:22:54] And we've got to be respectful of our neighbors and our communities. And that's my commitment. And that's what we've been working to achieve here. And so that's all I have to say now, Madam Chair, and just let's get to vote.

[08:23:15] Wait, real quick. Supervisor, you're in the queue. Is this your second or your third time? Madam Chair, I'll make it very, very brief. I wasn't going to raise this issue, but I will now since several have raised it. That is schools. I've been here long enough, and I've seen it all. West End, East End.

[08:23:33] Saw this in the early 2000s. My kids experienced it. The more we build in the West End, we've got thousands of unbuilt units, thousands of units coming down the pike, thousands of units that we're going to build or that we're going to approve, and we'll get built, and we'll get factored into the school division plans.

[08:23:54] you know what's going to happen exactly what happened in the 2000s the school division will have to focus all of their cip resources to build new schools in the west end new schools in the gainesville district new schools in the brentsville district perhaps one in coals you know what's not going to get built you know what's not going to get fixed you know what's not going to get remodeled for the third or fourth decade in a row are the schools on the east end bear that in mind every

[08:24:30] time they build a new elementary school or a new high school or a new middle school on the west end those resources those capital dollars that are in being invested in the west are not in being invested in the east and they have to be invested in the west because we're increasing the population at such a high rate it's a problem the board for generations has given lip service to and the school division has never paid proper attention to that's it madam chair supervisor body i hate to

[08:25:05] drag this out, but he just said something. No, I'm serious. I'm serious. It fails to acknowledge the work the school board has been doing and the superintendent has done in the last year to reprioritize how they do their CIP funding. It fails to acknowledge the fact that we had earlier this year, the school board pushed off the 14th high school because the projections were different than how it was originally done. To say that this somehow grounds hog day with the school system, we're going to do the same thing how we used to, is just countercurrent to what the school division is actually doing.

[08:25:41] Anyone that paces what the school board is doing right now, we have one in the audience, can tell you that they are changing the way they do these things. So for someone to say that because we're approving these projects out in the West, that the East is going to get shafted again, is not being upfront about the full picture of what the school division is doing.

[08:25:59] And as Supervisor Gordy just said, I will be glad and happy to have those conversations with the school board about us coming together that's why i've been advocating for years for us to restart that joint committee on capital the two boards ago had so we'd have more robust discussions but again i had to say it because they said it that you know somehow this would be groundhog day which is not a case not the case the school division has been doing excellent work looking at refurbishing old older schools believe me all of us have those older schools in our districts i think one of the oldest elementary schools in the region in my district is being rebuilt into the first net zero a school in the county so do not tell me that we're going to ignore the east thank you chair

[08:26:35] point of privilege we have supervisors time can we call the vote yeah that's what we're about to do i mean he's done it's time to vote motion passes six to two supervisors vega and we're voting nay all right thank you so very much we're now going to move on to item 14 which is public

[08:27:00] comment time um so so we are on to public comment time right now we only have one person who is

[08:28:21] signed up in person but i don't know if he's still here mr j norman if you're here mr j norman all right i don't think he is here any longer so do we have anyone signed up for in person i mean so remote all right so we do not have mr j norman here um we do not have anyone you know signed up remote so what we're going to have to go back to we have supervisors time and closed

[08:28:53] meeting. So I am going to start with supervisor's time. That's what I'm about to do. So we're going to do 11A through 11C. If I can get a motion. Second. All right. Is there any discussion?

[08:29:11] All right. Let's take a vote on the appointments. Motion passes unanimously. Supervisor Weir abstaining from vote. All right. So then we are going to start around the horn. And I'm going to start with you, Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just briefly, I'll just go real quick.

[08:29:38] Just congratulations to the ladies of Delta Sigma Theta and our own Margaret Franklin for your 40-year anniversary. Attended their celebration. It was beautiful. I really enjoyed our joint legislative breakfast that we had that included all delegations at all levels to talk about the school board budget, and it was wonderful. I want to thank Rob Mancini for bringing me out to his office and explaining to me how Mobius is working and how it's supporting our county and how they are growing and for me to see his new digs at Iron Mountain it was great

[08:30:15] and then to my colleague Kenny Bodie I think we had a fantastic housing matters town hall on the 3rd of December it we 45 people showed up I mean it was just wonderful and so Madam Chair to your comment about people don't understand about housing, that might be an opportunity for us to take it to the streets, as you would say, and help people understand a little bit more about housing and we appreciate IKEA for what they did for us with the technology and the food and everything. Wendy, shout out to you. My staff went to the holiday, Neabsco Holiday Walk and had a great time, took their kids.

[08:30:52] It was great. And then I had an opportunity to play Santa, Mrs. Santa Claus, with Jack and Jill, my husband and I, and that was great for the kids. We had a great time. And then to the Mutem Temple Masonry in our community, I went to their celebration on Saturday, and so they are doing great work in making sure that at Thanksgiving and Christmas, even during the year, they're serving our community.

[08:31:23] And then we attended the sixth anniversary brunch for the ARC this past weekend. It was great. And to the two ladies that were ordained at Ebenezer Baptist Church, Reverend Christine Brown and Reverend Lundy's wife, Jacqueline Lundy, were ordained.

[08:31:39] Congratulations to you. And then this evening, as I was working, I received an award from the Boys and Girls Club, a national service award. So thank you so much for acknowledging my work in the community. And then tomorrow I'll be attending our colleague, Councilwoman Pamela Sebesky.

[08:31:59] She's leaving the forest. So thank you for your work, Pam, and for your collaboration across the county with Manasseh City. And then lastly, I'd like to offer a directive for the Animal Advisory Board.

[08:32:17] One of the things that they are looking to do, and if you could just take this in, The directive is for staff to offer animal licensing, to issue a directive as of today, animal licensees, that we will charge them $30 for the next three years instead of $10 every year.

[08:32:39] This would be better for the constituents. And so the Animal Advisory Commission voted unanimously for this to be something that we brought forth, so I want to offer a directive to do so. And that's all I got, Madam Chair. thank you so much all right thank you all right supervisor we're and the resolution thank you madam chair actually have a couple of things tonight uh first i'd like to congratulate and thank volunteer prince william for distributing nearly 800 baskets to the manassas and woodbridge senior centers most of the seniors that received the christmas baskets are meals on wheels recipients

[08:33:15] in addition to regular members of the centers i'd also like to note that our holiday open house is this friday at five o'clock and yes the eggnog will be there i will also note that the town of of Haymarket Holiday and Christmas Bazaar starts at 2 p.m. on Saturday the 14th. I, too, have a directive that I've worked with both the chair and the CXO on, Madam Chair, without objection.

[08:33:38] I would like to direct county staff to draft a proposed ordinance and schedule a public hearing for the proposed January 21, 2025 meeting for the board to consider amending the noise ordinance, specifically County Code Section 14.14-4C. The proposed amendment will revise the allowable construction hours on weekday from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. to 9 p.m.

[08:34:01] It would also revise the allowable construction hours on Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays observed by the county government from 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. and from 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. If the board does not have a meeting on January 21, 2025, I'd like to direct county staff to schedule a public hearing for the next board meeting after that date at which public hearings are scheduled, and I would note that this would bring us into compliance with both Fairfax and loud oh two last things there I'm gonna give everybody some notice I'm gonna be bringing forth the resolution County staff is gonna give a

[08:34:37] presentation on the pedestrian bridge at Route 15 I'll be bringing forth a resolution at the next meeting to cancel and close out the design and advancement of the pedestrian bridge and to further a parking lot project at next to battlefield high school to accommodate additional capacity I'll send everybody copy of that out sometime in the next week maybe even tomorrow and then last but not least actually let me make sure that's last but not least yes oh no there is one more thing uh just anybody

[08:35:16] that's interested loudon county tomorrow night's having their 6 p.m public hearing on their legislative agenda as soon as they're done with that they're having a public hearing and discussion of the jlark study i would strongly suggest we do something similar in the near future which brings me to my last thing i'm not one to take shots at other jurisdictions publicly but i will tonight you know opening up the paper as some of you are aware given recent prtc discussions with respect to prince william county funding it appears that our esteemed colleague chair mckay in fairfax county

[08:35:54] has designs upon our motor vehicle fuels tax and other funds and wants to establish a regional tax so that we can pay for our share of WMATA, and specifically Metro. Well, for those of you that aren't aware, and those are members of the public, we don't have any motor fuels, vehicle fuels tax, or any funds associated with excesses.

[08:36:21] We've used our TOT, a lot of our recordation funds, and our general funds to support PRTC, VRE, OmniRide, that sort of thing. And I don't see us asking Orange County, Fauquier County, Culpepper, Warren, Frederick, and anybody else that rides VRE for money.

[08:36:38] So, Mr. McKay, pound sand, we're not giving you any money for Metro. Not unless you're going to give us the economic benefits that you derive from it. Thank you. Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to give a pause so we can punctuate what just happened there.

[08:36:59] But I appreciate your comments, Supervisor Weir. I will echo Supervisor Bailey. We had an excellent town hall last week. We had 45 people, so that counted, but all told when people, everyone sort of felt it, we had closer to 60.

[08:37:18] Yes. There were folks in IKEA that were eating, that were just sort of walking through, that saw our town hall and decided to take part. So I wanted to thank everyone who made that night a success. Our respective staffs in both the Potomac and the Occoquan offices, Wendy and her IKEA team, all the folks that participated, and frankly, the folks that told their stories, because that was a big part of it too, and really wanted to highlight the faces and the voices behind the housing challenge that we have in the county.

[08:37:45] We heard from a wide variety of folks. We had realtors there. We had developers there. We had workers who worked at IKEA there. We had folks who have lived in the county for 20 years. We have people who have lived in the county for less than one. We had the cross swath of the folks in our districts at that town hall.

[08:38:02] And millennials as well. Well, I'm a millennial, so I was of course with this there. But we had a really great successful town hall. Also wanted to shout out to Tanya Washington and her staff, Joni and her folks, and all the other county staff that helped out with that.

[08:38:17] They did an excellent job. And I'm glad that we were able to put that on. And I think there's more potential for us to bring that conversation to more parts of the county. So I wanted to highlight that. Looking ahead a little bit, this coming Saturday, the 14th, at Canine Gunner Dog Park, we're going to be doing photos with Santa.

[08:38:37] It'll be a fundraiser to support the dog park. But, you know, if you have the joint responsibilities, having furry friends, but also need to get your kids somewhere like I do to get pictures with Santa between now and the 25th, that's a great time to do both. It's really also a great opportunity to see the new ADA improvements that are going in at the dog park as well that Seth and his team have been working on for the last several months.

[08:39:04] So, again, 10 to 11 p.m. at Canine Gunner Dog Park, 13,000 Minnieville Road. The last thing I want to touch upon, and it was talked about quite a bit this afternoon, was the JLARC study. I know that not everyone has had a chance to look through it, including folks on the board.

[08:39:21] but i would really like in the coming meeting so next meeting and maybe early in january first have real conversation around amending and adding to our legislative agenda some of the recommendations from that jlark study especially as it pertains to giving us more authority to look at at issues around water noise and some of these other issues um you know a lot of folks have been hanging their hats on legislative action around that jlark study for quite some time i know that We've been waiting with Baited Beth around it, but we really need to get a handle on it.

[08:39:51] As many folks have said several times, we have found ourselves mired in the challenge that is the latest in the industry. I think it's time for us to be part of the solution. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Angry. Thank you, Madam Chair. So I know my colleagues are going to talk more about this, but I just want to thank them both because they have signature events.

[08:40:09] So I attended the Neabsco Boardwalk Lighting, Supervisor Franklin, and my Chair, we was out there doing this. We did both, matter of fact. But that, if you haven't done that boardwalk yet, which I haven't done the whole thing yet, I'm going to go back out to my family. The beginning of it is beautiful.

[08:40:25] I just haven't seen the end. So I know you're going to talk more, so I'll stop there on that. And then there's Supervisor Vega. If you haven't seen the Lucas School, which I didn't see before, but I did the narration on the Historic African American Trail, and she has a Christmas tree over there. I know you'll talk more about it, but beautiful area.

[08:40:42] The community is beautiful. I had a great time out there. Again, I had to cheer with me on that one, too. And so those are two great events. I want to thank them. I'm going to work on me a signature event because I don't have one in New York. Anyway, that's just that. I also want to thank the governor. Yesterday we did a ribbon cutting for American Red Cross Blood Donation, which is literally on Dale Boulevard in the Center Plaza.

[08:41:06] They've opened up this beautiful facility, which has a specific purpose. Not only does it give blood, but they do the platelets as well. And that's a two-hour process. I found I hadn't done that. I'm going to go do that one of these days. The governor came through, actually gave blood, actually made a commercial there to promote that center and encourage people to come down over the holiday season and give blood to those to save a life.

[08:41:31] So I would encourage the same that that facility is open right there on Dell Boulevard and Minnieville and the center plaza. You can't miss it. Some upcoming events. So tomorrow we're going to be doing a ribbon cutting for a new OmniRide route the front row of the warranty right now we know it's going to rain so we've moved this to the western facility in the hangar there so that's going to be just uh let me pull this to get you the time now so what time you need to be there that's going to be at 11 o'clock yes sir 11 o'clock tomorrow at the western facility we'll be doing that ribbon cutting um also i just want to get

[08:42:10] these out uh so i got a cog reception uh membership rewards dinner that's going to be tomorrow night That's up at the D.C. Water, and that's going to be at 3.30 up there in D.C. Also, let's get – so then Friday, MBTC, which is Northern Virginia Transportation Commission, PRTC and VRE are doing a legislative forum.

[08:42:39] That's going to be at George Mason University up in Fairfax in the Arlington area. We're going to have Senator Lucas down there as a guest on that. So if anybody's in that area, that's going to be from 830 to 11. You come on down and join that. And then also, I got one more one here that I'm kind of proud about.

[08:42:58] Oh, there we go. So Greg Washington, George Mason's president, he has his annual holiday reception. Greg and Nicole Washington, that's going to be at their home. Hopefully you got an invitation because you need that. So we'll be doing that Friday night.

[08:43:15] Yeah, you're going to need that invite. So if you don't have a diff, don't worry about that piece. And then there was one more thing I wanted to tell you all. And, well, I think I'll just stop right there, Madam Chair.

[08:43:32] Yeah, I'll stop right there. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right, we're going to go to Gordy. All right. So a couple things we had going on over the last week. On the 5th, we attended the Braemar Annual Meeting, and it was great to catch up with that community and get updated on things going on for that wonderful community.

[08:43:56] And then last night attended the Parks Foundation event in the Brentsville District, supporting their efforts to finish the pump track at Rollins Ford Park. It looks like we're only about $40,000 short of the goal, and so hopefully we will get that taken care of and see the pump track under construction at some point in 2025.

[08:44:17] As it was shared earlier this evening, I want to invite everyone out on Saturday, the 14th, at 4 p.m. for the Noakesville Christmas Parade. It's a great community event, and I know one of the churches has a live nativity being held there in town, and then just a lot of other fun activities for the families.

[08:44:41] I do have one directive without objection. I would like to direct county staff to provide to the Board of County Supervisors a report on the various boards and commissions outlining their actions for calendar year 2024 particularly the dates of their scheduled meetings whether a quorum was present and whether business was conducted additionally please include the number of boards and commission members as well as the number of county staff supporting each board and commission and the last thing i have to say is go navy beat army madam chair you got that wrong all right madam chair real quick on supervisor

[08:45:17] Gorady's directive um would you be okay with adding um to also make recommendations if one commission is not operating what the proper form of dissolving one would be yeah I mean that that's sort of I think looking at potential reform of our boards and commissions because we we have some that just aren't even meeting they're not meeting quorum people are showing up it's very I mean that happened to me on a commission it was very frustrating draft 35 minutes and then a meeting

[08:45:49] not take place with no forewarning. And so I think it's, you know, right now I'm interested in collecting the data to find out, you know, are they performing? And then at that point, determining and working with the board to find out whether or not either a board or commission needs, it needs to be consolidated with another one, whether there needs to be reform with that or eliminate it so i'm i'm flexible to whatever the approach is but i know we've got a lot of staff wasting time um you know wait you know working late hours to to support these things

[08:46:26] and then it not happening um as and and volunteers who aren't getting paid uh you know putting miles on cars and and uh and and if the things aren't meeting and they're not performing any real function for the county then let's let's uh make the decision to pull the band-aid off on it supervisor bode thank you madam chair um thank you for that directive uh suresa gordian in your addition suresa vega just wanted to remind folks that we did have an audit that was done i want to say one of the very first years our previous board was an office that got starred with that kind of work i know it took a back seat to getting that implementation phase because other audits became

[08:47:06] more emergent you know we uh coveted so we had to have the supper recipient monitoring other things But just wanted to highlight for you that we agreed with you back, you know, four, almost five years ago that we had audits beginning on that work and just didn't quite get to the finish line yet. So just want to say I approve, but there's work being done.

[08:47:23] Appreciate it. I'll say to that, while I wasn't here during that time, I do consider this an audit. I appreciate, Supervisor Gorda, you reaching out to let me know that this was coming. I did talk to staff. obviously it will take some time and where there are not where there are boards or commissions that are not functioning we will certainly note that in the report back to you and the rest of the board members all right now it's your turn supervisor franklin sure yes thank you on friday

[08:47:57] december 6 i made remarks and turnout for the holiday walk of lights at the neabsco boardwalk a beautiful display that was enjoyed by all the families that attended want to thank uh supervisor uh angry as well as uh chair jefferson uh for attending i was looking forward to actually turning the lights on but there was a five-year-old who was more excited than me so figure why not let her do it instead so that was pretty fun um and uh also this past we got the opportunity to attend um several community events including the uva community health holiday

[08:48:32] reception. We showed some level of support to the Freedom High School opening games as well as the Chamber of Commerce holiday gala. Also just wanted to give a shout out for those who helped to organize joint legislative breakfast with members of our General Assembly as well as our school board and pleasant surprise from incoming Congressman Eugene Vindman who stopped by to hear some of the legislative priorities that we have and so that was the first time that we've experienced a member of Congress or a Congress member elect come in so I thought that

[08:49:12] that was pretty cool to actually have them express interest so thank you to Congressman Vindman for attending. Some upcoming events Thursday I will be speaking at the Chamber of Commerce to their board of directors about the importance of affordable housing and the work that we've been doing over the past several years and what's to come in this particular area. So looking forward to doing that. On Friday, I will be hosting the 37th annual Woodbridge Senior

[08:49:45] Holiday Luncheon at the Woodbridge Senior Center. So looking forward to people attending. In the past we've had many people over a hundred people in attendance we've had elijah there i've been trying to recruit um uh chris to come because they love dancing with people and um and and they have a great time and this is really the highlight of some of their uh year and so hoping that we can get some some uh great volunteers out if you're interested in coming it is a public event please

[08:50:19] come by we need volunteers but looking forward to doing that 37 years in the making also mvtc will be hosting their joint legislative session on friday morning and then i will be attending supervisor weir's holiday party a because there will be eggnog and and b because he called me out at the last meeting for not attending last year so i will be there this friday in haymarket i'm looking forward to it and then on saturday we have the wreaths across america at quantico so i'm hoping people can come out to that and i think that's all i got so thank you all right supervisor

[08:50:58] vega thank you madam chair now i'm curious if our county executive is a good dancer we'll find out yes so on december 4th my on december 4th my staff and i had a wonderful time providing breakfast to the morning shift over at the adult detention center to my colleagues on the dais if you all haven't had the opportunity to take a tour or to engage folks over at the ADC I would highly recommend that you do they play a vital role here in this county and I know that they always feel appreciated when they see folks from the board show up also on the same day my staff and I went to boxes of basics and we donated jackets just want to put this out there that they're now

[08:51:38] accepting adult-sized clothing to donate to adult-sized children so if you have big sizes they take it now. On December 5th, I attended my health board meeting. I just want to put this on your radar. I am appointed by the governor to the state health board, so if there are any issues that you think might be important for me to address on our behalf, I'd be happy to do so. On December 7th, I had a great time with my baby. For those that don't know, my baby's 15. His name is Arian, and he went with me on Saturday morning to volunteer over at Boxes of Basics, and we had a wonderful time putting those boxes together again it's one thing when we

[08:52:15] hear right community partners I think they're one of our partners but if they're not on these organizations and of the like and what they do but it's a different story when you're actually there and you go hands-on and you're preparing a box for a child who might be in need and so it was a really neat experience to have not just personally but to be but to be able to share that with with my baby just don't tell him I'm calling him my baby because he gets embarrassed now that he's 15. Later that day, I held our annual Christmas tree lighting ceremony over in the Coles District. I too want to thank Chair Jefferson for showing up. I've been on the board for five years now, and it's just really neat to have a chair come around to all of these

[08:52:52] events, not just in my district, but to make the time, and I know that that day you were all over the place, and after you left, I had a handful of folks approach me and just say how cool it was that the chair of the board was in attendance um victor you're always a good time and thank you for showing up and for supporting um this event as well a special thank you to parks and recs i couldn't have done this event without their support and also a very very very special thank you to folks over at the office of historical preservation they do a tremendous job in helping us put this event together and i believe that every year it just gets better and better

[08:53:28] On December 9th, we had our groundbreaking ceremony over at Hellwig for that dome that you all supported. I think everybody supported it. So it's really cool that it's happening and it's coming. Later in the day, we went over to the Coles District Fire Station and we donated the toys that were donated throughout the two last months and at the event on Saturday for Toys for Tots.

[08:53:49] Later this week, I'm actually going to go to the airport after here. I'm flying to California for a summit against anti-Semitism. And on Saturday, I'll be joining some of my colleagues that mentioned their attendance to the Wreaths Across America event. Before I issue a directive, Madam Chair, I also just want to express my gratitude to folks in the district for their generosity.

[08:54:08] It doesn't matter what the situation may be, whether it's somebody's home catching on fire, somebody in need. The district really stands up, and an indication of that is the amount of support that folks give to all of these events throughout the year. So I'm very grateful and honored to be your representative here on this board.

[08:54:24] And I just want to thank you for your generosity and your kindness. And lastly, I'm going to issue this directive. The county attorney has seen it. Our county executive has seen it. The chair has seen it. And it's been worked on with our Department of Transportation. The Route 28 bypass project is a major regional transportation project being administered by Prince William County.

[08:54:41] The project has been under design and engineering for the past four years. While I acknowledge and appreciate all the planning, design, engineering, and community engagement that has occurred across multiple jurisdictions, I no longer have confidence the project is viable or maintains the necessary support to move forward.

[08:54:57] Therefore, and without objection, I would like official consideration of the project from my board colleagues and am directing the county executive to work with staff to draft a resolution to take formal action canceling and closing out the county's involvement in the Route 28 bypass project during a board meeting in December or as soon as possible.

[08:55:20] Madam Chair. Supervisor Franklin. Sure. So would the next step be for the resolution to come back? It would come back for discussion. okay because one thing that i think is still getting a little confusing and i know we've talked about this on the staff level is exactly what is fairfax asking for and maybe between now and then we can get some clarity on that before i wanted to um i believe the transportation you know um their transportation team has gone around and briefed everyone have you been briefed i have

[08:55:57] but there's a lot of back and forth between um what i'm hearing from our guys and what i'm hearing from others not in Prince William County madam chair I do see Rick out there but I'll be the first one to say that I'm happy to have further discussion discussion on this matter and let everybody know what is going on so yes that's the intent of the directive which is to bring the resolution forward and I guess on that day we're going to have discussion on the matter yes Rick okay yeah and then can I ask a quick question it's my understanding that back in the day this may have been even before we got on this board that there was some type of and ricky may

[08:56:35] be able to answer this some type of executive committee between the regions that has not met in several years about this because i feel like maybe that's part of where some of the disconnect is i may not be saying it or articulating it correctly but it's my understanding that there was some type of group of kind of some of the regional players that would meet monthly and that that hasn't happened in some time and then i feel like that's where some of the confusion is coming from many chair members of the board uh rick canazoles here director of transportation uh we've gone through uh many committees i'm not sure exactly which one we're talking about through

[08:57:14] this project we have gone through committees with studies and and uh with location uh studies as well as a design uh we have been meeting all the way up to the point where we had to kind of conclude the design portion of where we were to try to get acknowledgement and make sure that we could move forward with the project with all the partners involved yep yep and rick and i have talked but um again it may be worth coming back and having to share information all at once because again some of the information i'm getting is not the same or inconsistent i think it'd be

[08:57:50] great and one of the reasons i am you know would like to move forward because we do need to have an open and transparent discussion because there are a lot of conversations going on a lot of he said she said and i know that there are outside groups who have been pushing for this project for years that um are also sharing information so i definitely think that having an open discussion supervisor angry did you still want to say something i mean it's to the point you you're mentioning that uh someone came around to give presentations to offices uh yes rick and his team oh oh okay because i thought you were saying uh fairfax i'm not i didn't hear from fairfax but i You know, other than Rick and then really some of the, again, concepts in the street and rumors,

[08:58:29] yeah, it's a little bit too confusing for me. I would like to have an open discussion with the board as we have that discussion. Supervisor Bode. Yeah, not to rehash too much what's already been said. To me, also, since Route 28 and the bypass or widening or however that was, was a bond referendum project, I think it's our best interest to have a public discussion because the voters voted for it one way or another.

[08:58:52] so i think it's good that we talk about an open discussion as opposed to just you know behind the yeah madam chair um and i'm not sure if this is appropriate but maybe worth having mvta definitely at least here to be able to answer some of those questions i think at the appropriate time yes that is something you know i've spoken with rick and his team as well as the cxl so i'm sorry remember everyone we still have closed session i'm looking at you kenny because you're holding onto your computer bag but yes yeah so i just wanted you guys to think about that as

[08:59:22] Well, quick question. We only mention us and Fairfax. Are those the only concerns? Like, does Manassas have any census up in that area? Anything to do with? Madam Chair, members of the board, the City of Manassas and the City of Manassas Park are both partners in this project as well, and they have been informed.

[08:59:43] Okay, so I'd like to hear their views on it as well. So, I think that's it. Do you have anything else, Supervisor Vega? All right, then I'm going to quickly remind, and again, we are, we have closed session.

[08:59:59] I'm sorry, Kenny, the way you're holding on to your computer bag. All right, so like Supervisor Angry, I do not have a signature event, and I'm going to have to start looking for one. So what I'm going to quickly do is I have a notice of 10 to appoint the following individuals to boards, committees, and commissions.

[09:00:16] Travis S. Nembhardt to the Manassas Regional Airport Commission. Roger Harris is a licensed professional to the Advisory Plans Examiner Board. Kenneth Nixon is an alternate to the Board of Zoning Appeals, and Farron Morton to the Housing Board. And I have a quick directive that I would also like to read.

[09:00:36] Without objection, I would like to direct the county executive to provide the board with a comprehensive listing of all currently available park and recreation monetary contribution proffers, which the county has collected and have not already been budgeted and appropriated for a specific project, including rezoning application name slash number and year was approved, magisterial district, amount collected, amount currently available, and any restrictions on the use of the funds.

[09:01:01] This information should be provided to the board in a memo and our presentation at a future board meeting as staff deems appropriate. With that, also, Supervisor Vega, I am taking you up. I'm going to try to go to the ADC. because I want to make sure, again, that they are seen and heard.

[09:01:20] And with that, go Army, go Cowboys, and let's go to closed session.

[09:01:45] Yeah, I'm going to gavel. Sorry, I just beat me to gavel today. So I need a vote, or I'd like a motion to certify. So moved. Second. All right. Okay, let's take a vote.

[09:02:01] Got to zoom in. Okay. Supervisor Vega, are you working? Thank you. Vote unanimous.

[09:02:21] Bodie, you have to report out. Yes, Madam Chair. i move that we accept the following internal audit reports contract compliance capital projects budgeting data governance and american rescue plan act calendar year 2024 subrecipient monitoring report interim second all right let's vote vote unanimous all right and then supervisor bailey thank you ma'am chair i award i i move that we award the internal audit services contract to rsm

[09:02:55] U.S. LLP and authorize the chief financial officer slash director of the finance department to execute the contract. Second. All right, let's vote. Vote unanimous.

[09:03:13] Move to adjourn. Second. I was trying to give someone else an opportunity. No.

[09:03:28] Bailey and Bailey. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you. Vote unanimous.

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