Coraggio Consulting
Prince William Board of County Supervisors Meeting, Tuesday, March 4, 2025

Date: Tuesday, March 4, 2025
Place: Prince William County Board of County Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 10h 42m (video)
Official meeting video (Prince William County, Granicus): https://pwcgov.granicus.com/player/clip/3608
Official Board of County Supervisors page (Prince William County): https://www.pwcva.gov/department/board-county-supervisors

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-30. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

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[00:47:05] everyone we have to do it so they can hear in the back i guess they can hear that all right welcome to the two o'clock session um we are going to begin with a few moments of silence all right

[00:47:36] thank you all rise if you are able for the pledge of allegiance all right thank you very much just for as a matter of housekeeping um there are a couple revisions item 5c has been added to the agenda and item 15a um that is for wellington glenn technology park that was supposed to be

[00:48:12] heard in the 7 o'clock evening session, that has been deferred to April 1st. That has now been deferred to April 1st. For right now, we're going to move on to agenda item number three, and I'm just going to turn it over to Mr. Shorter, you know, for our, you know, before we accept, before our lovely Michelle, you know, Robel accepts this award. Absolutely. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board.

[00:48:37] Really excited to welcome Rich Ehrenbaum. If you will come up, Rich, to our board meeting today. Rich is a volunteer with the employer support of the Guard and Reserve for the state, and just really want to welcome Rich. He is here to present an award for employer, a patriotic employer, and I'm just really excited to turn it over to Rich to honor our team.

[00:49:06] So, go ahead. Great. Thank you, sir. As Mr. Shorter said, I'm Rich Erenbaum. I am a volunteer with Department of Defense Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve, ESGR. So ESGR is, like I said, a Department of Defense organization made up of volunteers from across the United States.

[00:49:23] Here in Virginia, we have about 30 or 40 active volunteers, always looking for more, so always recruiting. So if you'd like to be a part of that, please feel free to get in contact with me through the attorney's office. That's why I'm here today. But ESGR's main focus is to support the men and women of the Army Reserve and all the other six reserve components, as well as the employers who employ them.

[00:49:44] So we do that by educating and informing those reserve component service members as well as employers of reserve component service members about the USARA laws, Uniformed Services, Employment, and Reemployment Rights Act. So those are laws that govern basically when a reserve component service member goes away for a weekend of training or, in the case of one of your own, up to a year or maybe even longer of deployment and or mobilization.

[00:50:07] So we are happy to work on your behalf to understand those laws better. we do have trained ombudsman throughout the country and we have a great one here in northern virginia to assist you in any kind of issues you may have related to reserve component mobilization orders reintegrating that person back into your organization so that's one thing we do but the other thing we are and i'm happy to do is actually present awards on behalf of employer support of the guard and reserve and that's why i'm here today so in this case uh captain regal from the The United States Army Reserve nominated three of its supervisors here in the Prince William County Attorney's Office for Patriotic Employer Awards.

[00:50:45] So at this time, I would ask if Michelle, Kurt, and Allen could please step forward so we can recognize them. And as they step forward, I'm actually going to ask Captain Regal to say a few words on why he nominated these three individuals to receive these wonderful awards today.

[00:51:02] Thank you, Rich. Thank you, Chair Jefferson and members of the board. Michelle and Kurt have been fantastic supervisors and bosses, and have been very, very supportive of my Army Reserve career, BA weekends, being very flexible about the Monday after, knowing I'm going to be a little worn out, being very supportive of short notice ADOS orders, which I'm on now.

[00:51:27] So they've been fantastic supervisors, and I'm very, very grateful. I'm also grateful for the board for making Prince William a great place for reservists to work at, and specifically, Supervisor Angry, Supervisor Gordy, thank you for your mentorship and guidance in being supportive of my Army Reserve career as well.

[00:51:44] So thanks again, everyone, for your support. I really appreciate it. And thanks again, Michelle Hahn and Kurt. Madam Chair, members of the board, I want to thank Mr. Ehrenbaum, obviously Derek, and ESGR for this honor.

[00:52:01] We are so lucky to have Derek as a member of our office family. We are proud of him for his service to the country. We know how important service to the country is, to our office, to our family. to the board to this organization so i'm not quite sure why we're receiving the award because i think every employer should be doing what we're doing supporting him i appreciate the board's patient and patience and the organization's patience derek is gone for a year we're about a third of the way into it and not that we're counting down for him coming back but he's been working on some important things for the board so we appreciate appreciate your patience while he's gone we're

[00:52:39] looking forward to it. So we want to thank you so much. Thank you, ma'am. And without further ado, I would like to just read one of these and put everybody's name in here for us. From the Office of the Secretary of Defense, Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve recognizes Michelle, Kurt, and Allen, Prince William County Attorney's Office, as patriotic employers for contributing to national security and protecting liberty and freedom by supporting employee participation in America's National Guard and Reserve Force. And on a personal note, thank you so much for supporting and being supportive of Derek and anybody else you may have in your midst.

[00:53:10] Obviously, I feel you're a very military-friendly office and organization, and I know the board has some military folks on it, currently serving, prior to serving, and I appreciate their service as well and everybody's support of the military. So thank you so much, and here you go, Michelle.

[00:53:26] Thank you. Thank you so much.

[00:53:29] I think everyone on the board knows

[00:54:30] how awesome our legal team is, and it's nice for them to be recognized in this way. So with that, let's move on to item number four, approval of the minutes. Can I get a motion? So moved, Madam Chair. Second. All right, let's take a vote.

[00:54:50] All right, we're moving on to agenda item number five, accommodation and proclamations. We have three proclamations, one for Flood Awareness Week, another for National 311 Day, and the last for Developmental Disability Awareness Month.

[00:55:08] Can I get a motion? So moved, Madam Chair. Second. All right. Let's go ahead and take a vote. Vote unanimous. All right. The first one is for Flood

[00:55:46] Awareness Week. I feel like saying, come on down. All right. Flooding is the most common and costly natural disaster nationwide, but only 3% of Virginians have flood insurance. Prince William County is at risk every year for the damaging effects of flooding. The Virginia Department of Conservation and Recreation and Emergency Management have designated March 9th through 15th, 2025 is Virginia Flood Awareness Week, encouraging Virginians to learn about their

[00:56:21] flood risk and protect the life they've built with flood insurance. The Prince William County Office of Emergency Management, in collaboration with its whole community partners, is facilitating a variety of outreach activities throughout the month to encourage all residents and business owners to know their flood risk, purchase flood insurance, and turn around, don't drown when roads are flooded. The Prince William Board of County Supervisors recognizes that those who are prepared for emergencies recover faster and can help others who may also be infected, demonstrating a sense of community. The Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby proclaims March 9th

[00:56:59] through March 15th as Flood Awareness Week in Prince William County. All right, Mr. LaBelle, the floor is yours. Thank you, Madam Chair, Board of Supervisors. Mr. Schroeder, I'll be brief because you said it all. What I will reiterate, though, is it only takes a foot of water to move a car and that most of the deaths associated with flooding are actually people in their vehicles.

[00:57:28] And so we really encourage people. We do have all sorts of flooding here in Prince William County. And so please heed the warnings and please turn around and don't drown. I also really need to point out, obviously, we have our wonderful staff from emergency management. They're always my backup singers. But we also have Dave Maxwell from Public Works, and a lot of the remedial work that we're able to do through emergency management is done through the wonderful team at Public Works, and we can't thank them enough.

[00:57:54] Thank you.

[00:58:18] All right, we are on to item 5B, Rob Mancini.

[00:58:47] This is for National 311 Day. Thank you. Have the larger entourage.

[00:59:03] Prince William County 311 is a vital countywide service that connects constituents to local government resources, providing centralized access to handle requests for service and information about county resources, general requests for services, status updates, and enhancing community engagement.

[00:59:24] The Prince William County 311 system helps optimize government services, transparency, accountability, and efficiency by offering constituents a variety of technology options to engage with accounting, including a call center, 311 web portal, mobile application, chatbot assistance, and automated response capabilities.

[00:59:44] National 311 Day, observed annually on March 11th, raises awareness for this essential 311 service and encourages constituents to utilize 311 for government service requests, enabling Prince William County to optimize our service delivery.

[01:00:02] And Prince William 311 is actually scheduled to go live this spring. The Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby proclaims March 11th, 2025, is National 311 Day in Prince William County. Mr. Mancini, do you have a few words?

[01:00:19] Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. Rob Mancini, when IT rolls in here, we roll big or we don't roll at all. So you're a tough act to follow, Michelle. Same with you, Mr. LaBelle, Chief LaBelle. But I have some folks behind me here who are working very hard on delivering 311 to the county.

[01:00:38] They're on the IT team. We have seven other agencies who are our partners here, but IT gets to be here today to introduce some of the great people. I'm going to give you their names. Brian Coy, Telecom. Bruce Nicholson, PMO. Isabel DeVute, Performance Management.

[01:00:55] Sean Galagli, PMO. And none other than Rob Rollins for the Infrastructure Division. These are the folks building this system for you. And by the time we're done, Mr. Shorter, we're hoping we're a tough act to follow. Okay? All right. Thank you.

[01:01:07] Great. And finally, we have a proclamation for March 2025, Developmental Disability Awareness Month.

[01:02:11] Thank you. Developmental Disabilities Awareness Month is observed annually in March. It is a time to raise awareness about developmental disabilities, celebrate the achievement of individuals with these disabilities, and to advocate for their rights and needs.

[01:02:33] Developmental Disability Awareness Month provides the opportunity for all to recognize the tremendous value in potential people with developmental disabilities and to commit to their empowerment, integration, employment, and inclusion. People with developmental disabilities are valuable members of society and can gain greater independence and productivity through community programs in partnership with their families.

[01:02:58] The Prince William Board of County Supervisors is committed to empowering and supporting people with developmental disabilities to achieve self-determined lifestyles through community-based living arrangements, employment, and other individualized support services. Today, the Prince William Board of County Supervisors hereby recognizes the month of March 2025 as Developmental Disability Awareness Month and proclaims its continued commitment to the empowerment and full inclusion of these individuals in all aspects of community life.

[01:03:31] Thank you, Chair Jefferson, and to the members of the Board of County Supervisors, and Mr. Shorter. I'm the Division Manager for Developmental and Disability Services from Community Services.

[01:03:47] It's our parent agency. My name is Jacqueline Turner. I have with me Shakira Johnson and Elaine Wycliffe. They are newly moved up program managers. thank you all for the contributions to our team as we have grown over the years in an effort to serve people in our community and their families who have developmental disabilities. Many of you hear about autism but there are many other types of issues that we help people with connecting them to services. Some of you may have heard about the Department of Justice Settlement Agreement in Virginia and yay for the permanent injunction that has passed. However, the work for us

[01:04:25] continues as we try to meet all of those expectations. Our staff have a boatload of work, but they are focused on serving people well, helping them to get their needs met. We thank all of you for continued effort to support our program and for the needs of people in this community. We thank the residents of Prince William County who welcome them into their neighborhoods, who employ them in jobs, who include them in the community activities that we all participate in and value. So thank you for being good citizens.

[01:04:56] All right let's now move on to agenda item number six and that is the consent agenda. Before I begin

[01:05:58] is there anyone with anything they want to pull off? 6A madam chair. 6A anything else? All right with that I'd like to get a motion for 6B through 6L. Move for approval madam chair. Second. It has been moved and seconded. Any discussion? I see supervisor Franklin. Sure just want to highlight item 6d to authorize submission of a grant application for the national capital region

[01:06:35] transportation planning board fiscal year 2026 regional railway safety program this includes port potomac as well as indus drive neighborhood traffic calming projects this is something that's been brought up over the past several years to figure out how to mitigate some of the speeding that takes place in our neighborhoods and so this item requests preliminary engineering assistance to design recommended safety improvements to address primarily issues of speeding and cut-through traffic.

[01:07:02] So I just want to point that out for Woodbridge residents who have been talking about the NDIS access for a while now. So thank you. Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to make note of Item 6J. The county will be receiving land from STAC data centers for the parcels that are part of the Youth for Tomorrow development. This is not part of a rezoning application, but what I'm excited about is that this land will extend the Linear Park and the Broad Run Trail to our county-owned parcels along

[01:07:41] Route 28, and this will allow us now to be able to go on from Rollins-Ford Park all the way to Route 28 via this Linear Park and Greenway Trail. So I just wanted to make note of that. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[01:08:01] Item 6C and 6D. Just want to make note of the fact that 6C is to support the Route 1 at Southbridge and Dumfries for a pedestrian study there. It's been needed for quite some while and we're finally getting there.

[01:08:17] And then 6D is to support the many, the plethora of town halls we've had in reference to Forest Park um high school and what's needed there to protect our students and so um in support of both that is absolutely necessary for this grant all right thank you so very much let's go ahead and take a vote on these items unanimous all right let's move back on to 6a i believe mr supervisor rare

[01:08:53] did you have questions uh just a comment but i'll wait until after the motion all right would someone like to move for 6A? So moved, Madam Chair. All right. Discussion? Supervisor Rear?

[01:09:10] Thank you, Madam Chair. For those unaware, this is an agreement for the county to buy back half of a parcel that we sold in 2011. I've got a fairly long history of being in opposition to the county acting as a developer, particularly at innovation, and this deal is not a deal for me and not one I can support.

[01:09:31] We sold a five-acre property back in September of 2011 for a fraction over $1 million, almost $1.1 million, comes out to $217,800 an acre. The purchaser has developed half the property and now wants to sell us the other half back.

[01:09:53] But they want to sell us the other half back at $1.7 million dollars or six hundred and eighty six thousand dollars an acre three hundred and fifteen percent increase i've been assured that we will recover the money and selling it to somebody else in innovation but since the last sale i can find was a mere two years ago where we sold five point six acres for one point four million or two hundred and fifty nine thousand dollars an acre i'm not buying it uh i'm also not buying that this parcel is particularly valuable given its location and it's limited access and some other things including easements that have been put on it

[01:10:29] since we sold it so i will not be supporting 6a all right anyone else i don't see anyone in the queue so let's go ahead and take a vote motion passes six to two supervisors vega and we're voting nay all right thank you we are now on agenda item number seven that is public comment time oh no no one signed up oh so we are going to move from public comment time since no one has

[01:11:06] signed up we are going to go straight into item number six um this is public hearings i'm sorry eight guys it's the second monday please um so we are going into item um we're going into the public hearings and i'm going to do 8a and 8b together so this opens public hearings do we have anyone signed up in person do we have anyone signed up remotely okay sir on 8b yes sir you

[01:11:43] may go to the microphone and when you go there state your name the magisterial district where you live you don't have to give your home address again unless you want us to show it for dinner just and you have three minutes my name is roger kasmarski i'm on the hoa board sir come a little adjust the microphone because it's very hard to hear you sir okay my name is that better my name is roger kasmarski i'm on the hoa board for keswick estates which is on talon drive which

[01:12:18] is at the corner where they're putting in the new sonic or they're planning to put in the new sonic i was here for the special use permit meeting we are opposed to it in kazoo wick estates to put in a drive-through restaurant when we first moved in those were not authorized according to the paperwork we received and now there has been a special use permit that has received approval from the Planning Commission.

[01:12:53] We're still opposed to it. We do appreciate Ms. Bailey's office and the work they've done to finally get a light installed at Talon Drive in 234. The work is continuing. We'd certainly appreciate that. But this drive-thru at a location where it was not initially authorized, we bought our houses, We did other things that was not going to be any drive-throughs in that area.

[01:13:21] And now for that to become the primary use is something we definitely oppose to. And that's my comments. Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else in the audience who wants to speak to 8A or B?

[01:13:38] If not, and you said there's no one online, so I'll go ahead and close the public hearing. What we're going to do is, no, we didn't have anyone. We can go up and speak.

[01:13:57] All right, so I'm closing the public hearings for 8A and B. I would like to get a resolution for 8A. I'm sorry, would someone move 8A? So move. All right, any discussion on 8A?

[01:14:14] Supervisor Bailey? Yeah, B, okay. Supervisor Franklin? All right. So nothing for Supervisor. Did anyone want to speak? Did you want to speak on 8A? Okay, everyone's lining up for 8B.

[01:14:29] All right, let's go ahead and do 8A. Let's clear that out. Let's take a vote.

[01:14:44] All right, I would like, unless anyone has any questions for staff on AP, I'm going to do a motion, then we can have a discussion on the motion. So moved, Madam Chair. Second. All right, who's in the queue? I know Supervisor, ooh, Franklin got jumped in. Franklin and Bailey?

[01:15:01] Since you're a district, let's go. Thank you very much. Madam Chair, I just wanted to, there is going to be a, I want to call Alex up because there's going to be a slight change in the verbiage for the motion, if you could, please, Alex. So, good afternoon, Chair Jefferson, board members.

[01:15:20] My name is Alex Venegas from the planning office. And in consultation with Supervisor Bailey's office, the applicant, based on the feedback that we received from the community, the applicant agreed to add the condition to Sonic at Barracks Row.

[01:15:40] And the condition reads, in consultation with development services, the applicant agrees to submit a construction management plan to be approved by the Director of Development Services prior to site plan approval of this SUP. This addresses some of the concerns with construction traffic that would occur during the overall process.

[01:16:06] Yes. All right, Supervisor Franklin. I'm sorry, I thought you were finished. No, no, no. I just have one small comment. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, and to the audience, this is a 20-plus year project that we've been working on for quite some time, and I'm very thankful for the HOA president that came earlier today and your participation and discussions that we've had and your comments. Really appreciate that.

[01:16:38] And I also appreciate the owner and the developer being here today and participating in those same town halls that we've had and your adjustments that you've made and listening to the constituents. So I really appreciate that. And, Alex, I thank you for working with me to make sure once we've had those town halls that we have the correct verbiage based upon what the community requested.

[01:17:01] And so that's all I have, Madam Chair. I just wanted to have those comments and to say it's been a long time coming, and it's been not a very easy project, but a project that has been very supportive of the community. All right.

[01:17:17] Supervisor Franklin. I meet at this time. Yeah, sure. I just want to obviously acknowledge the residents that came out with concerns, but also want to maybe preemptively congratulate Supervisor Bailey on this development. When you look at this area, it's really a sign of kind of the redevelopment that's taking place.

[01:17:38] I think that's kind of coalescing with the eastern end of the county, particularly with the work that we're doing on Route 1. And the more that we bring some of these opportunities, particularly on the retail and commercial side, to the eastern end, I think the more that we can see that revitalization happening in real time.

[01:17:56] So I just want to point out how even though it's just a sonic, it's so important with regards to the revitalization efforts that are taking place. So I just wanted to kind of point that out, how important it is in the grand scheme of some of the development work we're doing on the eastern end. Supervisor Ware.

[01:18:12] Thank you, Madam Chair. Alex, I do have a question. Correct me if I'm wrong. Was there significant public comment at the Planning Commission public hearing on this? Yes, we discussed several of the items, and we did make some changes to the application to address some of those concerns.

[01:18:32] And we have the applicant here today as well that, you know. That's fine. I'm just saying there were a significant number of people who spoke in opposition for one reason or another at the Planning Commission meeting. There were people that spoke in favor as well as in opposition.

[01:18:46] Okay. Madam Chair, it seems like I keep repeating myself week after week after week with respect to the consent agenda, but I would suggest that if the Planning Commission is any indication, and it's not happening today, and I could give you any number of explanations as to why, perhaps everything's been taken care of, perhaps nobody's looking for it because it's not in the evening session, but an application that has had that much debate at the Planning Commission level, regardless of how the Planning Commission level, of how the Planning Commission votes.

[01:19:23] If there is serious resident concern with respect to the application at the time it goes for the Planning Commission, I'd prefer they didn't appear on the, essentially, the consolidated agenda so that everybody has an opportunity to say something at the regular time with a full presentation for what it's worth.

[01:19:39] And let me just click her application. Again, this was recommended for approval by the Planning Commission, correct, Mr. Venegas? Chair Jefferson, that's correct. It was unanimously passed by the Planning Commission. And I do understand the concerns, and I want to say for the gentleman who spoke out, I actually live near you. I am in the Potomac District. I know that intersection very well, and I understand the concerns. Change is hard. You know, having a commercial development close to your residence, you know, again, I understand the concerns. I think that this is a net positive, and I am hoping, and we will work with the developers to make sure to mitigate any concerns regarding this project.

[01:20:19] You know, you have my promise. Supervisor Bailey and I work very closely together. We're practically neighbors. I understand that this is going to be a big change for your community. And if you have any concerns, you know, I can have my chief of staff, someone from her office is in here, but I can have my chief come out and give you a card.

[01:20:37] And we can work with you as this goes on to mitigate any concerns that you have or any concerns that your community has. Because, again, I understand we are a growing county, and we will have some growing pains. But to the best of my ability, I would like to mitigate that. I don't know if you want to speak a second time, Supervisor Bailey.

[01:20:56] I do, Madam Chair, and I certainly appreciate your support and Supervisor Franklin's support in reference to this. One of my jobs as the county supervisor for the Potomac District is to shepherd things as projects are coming through and work with those that are in opposition and those that are positively supporting of projects.

[01:21:17] And certainly, if anybody knows anything about my leadership, it's not to ignore those that are in opposition. And so I certainly respect, and the gentleman knows that I do. Thank you for your wave. And you're never ignored, never ignored. And so one of the things that I am very conscious of, Madam Chair, and you know this, is the Potomac District is very different in that it's very old, and it just needs a little lift.

[01:21:44] And sometimes that lift, that change, as you said, Madam Chair, is not very comfortable. And so I certainly respect that. But I guarantee you the person that is owning, the company that is owning the Sonic is a community partner. And that's one of the things that we had to learn as we sit on the dais and support these projects or we don't support these projects.

[01:22:06] How are these entities that's coming into the community partnering with the community? And so I just wanted to give that comment, if I could, in terms of being a very positive shepherd of my district as it relates to those that are not in support of and those that are in support of.

[01:22:27] Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Angry. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to comment on this. Our single most important commission is our planning commission, our planning commissioners. And we appoint those folks to the commission. Now, that's probably debatable.

[01:22:44] the IAEA and all this other stuff but however my point is we appoint those folks so this came out of the planning commission 8-0 meaning they did their due diligence and heard these causes I'm simply going to say that I don't think it's at our level that we want to challenge their decision to then look further into an application I think if that's the case what we got to do is go back and talk to our commissioners and maybe if there's going to be concern concerns of a project then they don't approve them and they push it until they get it to a point where they feel it's ready but at this particular point i would say that that's exactly

[01:23:21] what they did they got it to a point where they felt it was ready for prime time being us and thus it's here so i think if we're going to um question what comes out of the planning commission then we should probably be talking to our commissioners and see if we think there's some things that they should be holding on to or before all that but i just i just don't want us to step on our other departments and commissions of folks that do this work for us to get it to us at this level so that we don't in turn question their abilities to do their roles that's all manager thanks thank you i am sorry sir um i know my chief of staff came in gave you her card you know we are going

[01:23:58] to take a vote move on but i'm happy to speak to you no we don't unfortunately this is the how the flow works but if you know you have a seat afterwards you know supervisor we'll turn back to you you know if there's time between our meetings i'll come and speak to you personally supervisor we are thank you madam chair to be clear this isn't an issue about the planning commission and what the planning commission's decision is this is a this is about providing the public the opportunity to have their voice at a public hearing that's advertised and has enough time and i would suggest that if there are you know a number of people that show up at the Planning Commission in opposition, they have the right to be heard before this board as well as

[01:24:35] the Planning Commission, and my only objection is to having things like this appear on the consolidated agenda where that opportunity does not exist unless we pull it off the consolidated agenda, have a presentation, and deal with it. But this is just being fair to the residents who may have a differing opinion from the Planning Commission and allowing them to have their voices be heard. All right, thank you. Supervisor, point noted. All right, let's go ahead

[01:25:03] take a vote. Unanimous. All right. Thank you so very much. We are now moving on to the county executive's time. Mr. Shorter, the floor is yours. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, members of the board. There were no directives last week, so nothing to report out in terms of directives open last week. Do want to mention that this week the Urban Land Institute will be visiting with a

[01:25:35] technical review or technical assistance panel. This is a TAP panel of experts to really look at Sudley Corridor. A very important panel of experts and a really wonderful opportunity for the county for everyone who may not be familiar with ULI and what a TAP is. They will look at economic development, transportation, housing, land use, and really give recommendations on ways to improve quality of life, to make sure that we are taking full advantage of the economic viability of the

[01:26:13] corridor. So just really want to thank planning. I want to thank our economic development and tourism team for doing all the work of getting them here. And certainly want to thank the board, Supervisor Gordy, for all the work that I'm sure you're going to do once we get those recommendations uh and super i'm sorry the entire board supervisor vega supervisor gordy supervisor weir and everyone else on the board who will certainly take advantage of the recommendations thank you for the reminder supervisor vega um so uh so look forward to to that work also want to

[01:26:49] remind that this week we have the state of the parks event so want to thank uh seth hindler voss and really the entire Parks and Recreation team. I've been to their event a few years now and know that he puts a lot of effort into making sure that we put our best foot forward for the community at that event.

[01:27:08] So looking forward to attending. It's at Forest Park High School on Thursday evening. And with that, Madam Chair, that is all for me. All right, thank you so much. We're going to turn it over to our award-winning county attorney. Thank you, Madam Chair. Earning, earning.

[01:27:24] Thank you. We don't win military, earn them. earning. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. With regards to 10A, we have no items for closed session this afternoon. And with regards to 10B, as you see in my memorandum to the board, the General Assembly, as it does from time to time, updates the Code of Virginia. So I am recommending the board adopt this resolution that will update your rules of procedure with regards to the electronic participation. And you will note that the Code of Virginia says that these have to be adopted annually, so even if the General Assembly doesn't amend it, we will be bringing these back to you annually.

[01:28:03] All right, thank you, Supervisor. Do you have a question or a comment? All right. Just to be clear, that's a change from this year's legislatures? No, sir, it was a change previously, and I looked. There were some bills in for this legislative session.

[01:28:20] They did not go through, so I think that unless, and the plan will be to bring this to you in July to see after the General Assembly. Okay. Thank you. All right, with that, can I get a motion? So move Madam Chair. Second. All right. Any discussion? All right. Let's keep this train going. Let's take a vote. All right. Thank you so very much. And I'm going to kick it back over

[01:28:55] to Mr. Shorter for our presentation for 11A. Very good. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, members of the board. We're going to have Katab Stan representing Public Works. This is consistent with the budget presentation on the 18th of February, one of our many budget work where we're going to have an opportunity to hear from Katab and the team. Monica's here as well to talk about our landfill operations. Really appreciate all the work that was done in terms of creativity around the recommendation. And I know that there have been certainly discussions

[01:29:32] since the presentation. So, Katab, with that, I will turn it over to you. Thank you. Thank you, Carrie Executive Director. Madam Chair, members of the board, good afternoon. Katab Shamuchi, Director of Public Works. As County Exec Shorter mentioned, I am joined also by our Assistant Director for Public Works Solid Waste, Monica Gorman. We're very happy and pleased to be coming before you to talk about our Solid Waste program, both in general and as it relates

[01:30:05] to the County Exec proposed budget for FY26. You know, Solid Waste, just like the rest of all of our divisions. They're dedicated for protecting the well-being and the safety of our community, preserving the environment, and enhancing the quality of life in the county. So with that, how do we do this at Solid Waste? Okay. We operate major facilities. We operate both the landfill and the campus facility. We

[01:30:41] provide services and programs to the public. We promote diversions and recycling. And the more we promote that, the more we take that out of the fill, the more we can preserve the life of our landfill. And we also collect household hazardous waste and e-waste collection. And we do that at the landfill. And recently for the past six months, we've done that under a pilot program also on the western side of the county. And I think we will continue to do that at least twice a year, once in the spring and once in the fall in the western side of the county.

[01:31:14] And thank you very much to OmniRide for allowing us, their parking lot, to be able to do that. And collect literacy control throughout the community. Now we have fully staffed three crews that do a great job. And I say they do a great job because I drive the roads and they look kind of nice.

[01:31:30] And I have not received any emails saying otherwise. Some metrics on our operation for the county landfill. And again, we're looking at FY24 since it's a completed year. We've received 366,000 tons of material at the landfill, and that's requiring a 433,000 transaction.

[01:31:53] At the campus facility, we've received 57,000 tons of organics and processed 118,000 transactions. And other recycling programs and other programs, we have 18 residential drop-off locations throughout the county. We, again, collect household hazardous waste, litter control, special collection events such as a dumpster day.

[01:32:17] And we just came out with our spring dumpster day schedule. And we will be working with your offices for the fall dumpster day as well. Service funded exclusively by solid waste. So all of these activities are funded through our solid waste enterprise fund.

[01:32:38] And the major revenues for that fund comes from two different sources. The primary solid waste fee for residential and commercial, as well as the facility tipping fee as trucks come to our facilities to dump their load. These funds need to cover different programs or all of these activities in here.

[01:32:59] The operation and contractual costs. And, you know, we've got staff at both the campus facility and at the landfill and in the office that covers that. And all the contracts that goes with that, you know, the recycling and other contracts within the fill and the compass. Heavy equipments.

[01:33:15] We purchase heavy equipments. We repair them. We replace them and we maintain them. And that needs to cover that as well. Capital projects. You know, landfill. When you hear capital projects, we do a lot of sales. We do a lot of capping. We do a lot of facilities within the landfill to allow that to happen.

[01:33:31] Scale houses and the like in administration buildings that we have to maintain and keep up. We also have a reserve sinking fund for future planned and unplanned expenditure. We need to have that fund because you never know what may come our way, what we need to cover, and what we need to complete that needs to be planned or unplanned with that fund.

[01:33:51] And meet state regulatory requirements for restricted funds. Two things, you know, every time we start a cell, that's really not a regulatory thing, that we could do that. The regulatory part of this would be capping that cell. So DEQ wants to make sure that we have enough funds to cover the capping once we start a sell up front so they don't have to get engaged and be the one doing that.

[01:34:11] So they need to make sure that we have that. So that is a restricted. And the other restricted is what budget calls amortization, which is the restriction that we keep every year to be able to maintain the landfill once it's all closed and done for many years after that.

[01:34:27] That's a requirement that we have to meet for DEQ. Request to open a landfill on Sunday, which is really the heart of this discussion for today. When I got appointed six months or nine months ago, I heard it from several board members that we need to look at Sunday.

[01:34:47] Solid Waste need to look at Sunday and see how we can reopen Sunday back to the public. So looking at this option here is leaving the schedule as is, which is currently open from six to six, five days a week with an additional nine hours on Saturday for a total of 69 hours.

[01:35:04] To add another nine to that, that takes it up to 78 hours. Now, we have a lot of concerns with that because as it currently stands, even Saturday requires overtime pay. And to add Sunday to it, it just becomes a costly effort, as well as it's a big, basically, pressure on our staffing to be able to manage that.

[01:35:25] The other option would be to add more staff. And looking at the scenario we've looked at, it's close to 14 staff members really to manage that in order to avoid the overtime. And by adding overtime hours to the current staff, then we are resulting in safety concerns.

[01:35:42] You know, everybody's focused on the landfill, on the work phase, operation, and then we start missing out on some safety. There's a lot of activities going on up there. Deferred maintenance, everybody's focusing again on the fill, and that will be missed. and regulatory compliance impacts, we don't want to be there.

[01:35:59] We don't want DEQ to be in the middle of this because that becomes an issue. Another major factor is employee retention. Employee retention is an important thing. Now, even with overtime, for a small period, I get it, for a very long stretch, it becomes a burden.

[01:36:16] You know, you're working holidays, you're working half of the weekends, it becomes really a big toll, and that really does impact retention, and we've seen that in the past. And Compass Facility, this is more for information. Compass Facility days and hours currently align with our landfill to avoid customer confusion.

[01:36:34] That's one thing. But there also, there's a seamless kind of a connection between the two because even in the Compass, we do have bins. And those bins get filled pretty quickly over the weekend and they need to be hauled over to the landfill and taken to the work face and compacted in place and all of that.

[01:36:51] So there's definitely a linkage between the two. Now, what we are recommending really to make this happen and to make this within the budget and the revenues that we have and allow Sunday to open would be to take the schedule from a 6 to 6 every day to a 7 to 4.

[01:37:11] Again, 6 to 6, and I want to highlight, 6 to 6 means 12 hours. There's just not a one shift that can do this. So we always end up with two shifts, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, and there's an overlap in the middle. And that overlap, you know, there are activities to be done, but there's only a number of equipments to be used.

[01:37:27] So there will be some inefficiency when we do this. With this option, your nine-hour shift can be done by one crew, by one shift for the entire day. So that's definitely a big saving and a big utilization of our labors. And that will eliminate the routine over time, which really preserve the budget and preserve the revenue that we have.

[01:37:50] minimized budgetary impact as a result of eliminating routine mandatory overtime. And we continue to maintain alignment between the landfill and the compass in terms of hours. We need six months for this because it does require an adjustment. It requires a change, both to our staffing as well as to the commercial haulers, as well as to the public to be aware of what the time of this.

[01:38:13] So that period can start at budget adoption. It doesn't have to wait until July 1 to start Because at that time, we know that we're moving forward with this, and we can start that process. What does this require?

[01:38:31] Our recommendation is to require one additional staff member, which is a scale house. Currently, we have seven. We need eight in order to make the shifting and the scheduling work. And we will use $225,000 for a differential pay. And again, all of that comes from the enterprise fund. Where schedule change, what will that change by adjusting that schedule?

[01:38:51] It will change the schedule for 45 employees that we have at the campus and the landfill. And reduction in open hours for commercial haulers. You know, we've been coordinating with them. And yes, we do have some concern, and we're working with them on that.

[01:39:07] But that's going to take three hours from your regular day, 6 to 6. Now we're going 7 to 4. And Sunday opening serves primarily residential. We know that. There's very few haulers that will be coming someday unless there's an emergency at a hospital or something where they have to send a truck or something.

[01:39:24] But usually it is for the public mainly. So when we say no revenue generation, we mean tipping. So this is just to give you a little bit of a comparison between our operation and neighboring jurisdictions.

[01:39:40] So currently we open from 6 to 6 with an 8 to 5 on Saturday and closed on Sunday. Total is 69 hours. What we're proposing is 7 to 4 for 7 days. A total of 63 hours. If you look at Loudoun, they're still closed on Sunday. And they have from 8 to 4 a total of 48 hours per week.

[01:40:00] And for Stafford, they split it between residential and commercial, but either one of them are still lower than the number of hours that we are offering, even with our recommendation. I have a slide at the end that says questions, but if you have any questions so far, you're free to ask if you want.

[01:40:23] I can go through it. I don't have a lot of slides left. No, we can go through the end. I'll take all questions at the end, but thank you. Great. Thank you. Okay, so another major project that we have in the landfill, and the landfill is about 1,000 and some acre property. the one of a 234. Currently, we're using a good 500, 600 acres of it south of the creek, Powell's Creek, and the rest of it will be north of the creek in what we call phase four.

[01:40:48] Now, we still have room in the phase three, and we're still working on it, but phase four will become an important project to really start looking at and tackling construction-wise in the upcoming years, and I will show you the schedule. But phase four is really planned right now we're estimated to take about 25,000, I mean 25 million cubic yards of waste once it's all complete and done. That life cycle and it all depends on how much material we're coming and how the adjustment and how much we're diverting and recycling, but we're estimating that to be

[01:41:22] about 25 to 27 years of lifespan, of life cycle for phase four. We have nine years left in phase three. So in total, we have about 34 to 36 years left in the landfill as an entire property. And we estimate approximately 200 million of investment in capital projects. That's not operation, not anything else. It's just capital projects within the landfill for the next 20 years. This slide just shows the next six years' expenditures for capital projects within the landfill.

[01:41:58] You see on FY26, there's really not a lot going on. We're doing the design and we're doing the permitting for phase four. Starting in FY27 and on, we're going into cells and liners. And until we get to FY30, FY30 is the year where we have to start breaking ground on phase four, which phase four is not just a cell and a cap. Phase four is basically a brand new landfill that's going to require a lot of infrastructure, a lot of roads in there, a lot of adjustment to scale houses and stuff. And that's a major project. We think that's going to be 29 million. And looking at the schedule, where we're at with three, that's when we think we're going to have to start that. And

[01:42:37] that's why we're working on the design and the permitting at this time. FY31, we have $20 million estimated to move trash that was kind of left without, before all the regulation and all the permitting, it was left without any liner. So there's about a million cubic yards of that material that sits under the two-ball field next to the entrance to the landfill.

[01:43:05] It's not a regulatory issue. It's not we're in compliance in terms of we're grandfathered because it happened way before then. However, we think it's the right thing to do being aware of the stewards of the environment. It's the right thing to do to move that to somewhere within a lined landfill cell within their property.

[01:43:23] Now, we had it for FY31, not because it's a necessity that we have to do it at that time. just the close proximity of that to a close liner, which makes construction a little more feasible than if we take it to phase four, which can be done. So we'll have to evaluate our budget and see where we stand. And at that time, we'll make a decision whether we do it at FY31 budget-wise or move it over to another year when we have more funds available to us. Enterprise fund forecast.

[01:43:56] We mentioned in the FY26 budget, we did not have any increases to the solid waste fee for this year. We believe that the revenues for this year equal or exceeds the expenditures planned in terms of capital projects.

[01:44:13] The operation is the same in any year, but for the capital projects. So I think we're doing fine. And FY27 and on, where I showed you we have about $73.9 million of investment for the next six years, we're definitely going to be looking at some adjustment there.

[01:44:29] Because historically, all the capital projects were sort of like, use the fund balance. But the fund balance was never really planned. It was never really forecasted. It was just whatever available, let's use it and build those cells and caps and all of that. We cannot do this anymore.

[01:44:44] You know, construction costs are becoming very expensive, and the fund balance is dwindling. So we'll have to look at ways to really maintain that. So we are thinking or proposing to increase the solid waste fee 2% to 4% for the next few years, starting in FY27.

[01:45:02] Now, I said the enterprise fund rather than the solid waste fee because, you know, there's a possibility of either that or the tipping. But that's something we will still have to go through and really review it and make recommendation to the board and make that decision at that time. We got one more slide.

[01:45:29] I will try to go to the slide before. Which one, this one? Okay. So I'll talk to the tutor for you. Any additional service?

[01:45:45] You know, we only have this much of revenues coming into the Solway. So any additional service that wasn't really planned in the operation would cost money. And at that time, we'll have to evaluate and see if additional revenues will be needed to cover that. If it's small enough, we will absorb HHW or something like that, one or two events we can.

[01:46:03] But if something more significant, we'll definitely have to evaluate that and make that decision at the time. So with that, that wraps up my presentation, and I'll be happy to take any questions as you can. And on it, I will join and leave it. All right. Thank you very much. Supervisor Vega.

[01:46:21] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Katab, for this presentation and for trying to find a solution to a problem that has been lingering for quite some time. While I appreciate the effort, I'll be frank with you, it doesn't cut it. everybody works for the most part and saying that the proposed hours between 7 a.m. and 4 p.m. are reasonable is not a reasonable is not a reasonable proposal in my opinion I've had this conversation in depth with the county executive and refresh my memory Katab prior to the pandemic which is when we started to see a change in the schedule in terms of the operations of the landfill

[01:46:59] what was historically the schedule for the for the landfill I think it's the same six to six yeah same hours as now with sunday opening but again both saturday and sunday to the pandemic yeah was the six to six which is the current schedule correct and eight to five on saturday and sunday so the last time that the that the solid waste management fee was was increased was when in 2003 correct the last time yes i think it's 23 24 24 24 okay so the point that i'm trying

[01:47:38] to make is is that we keep increasing the fee for services that taxpayers aren't really getting and that's the frustration that I get from folks in my district and actually from throughout the county um you know saying that we're going to close the landfill up at 4 p.m when realistically speaking people are still working because most people get out of work at five o'clock um is not a feasible proposal in my opinion and in your presentation you're talking about the potential of an increase that is proposed for FY27, again, I understand the challenges that we're having with the workforce, but at the end of the day, if the taxpayers of this county are paying for a

[01:48:14] service, they should get a service that's convenient and conducive to their schedule. And I've asked this several times, Mr. Shorter, in terms of it's clear that we don't have the manpower and that perhaps it's time for us to go and look at the private sector. And I've been told that we've tried and that that hasn't been successful.

[01:48:31] And so I would request, Madam Chair, that we get a report of some sorts that indicates what those efforts look like. Because I've had folks reach out to me saying that they'd be more than glad to provide those services that the county is not able to fulfill. I understand that we have challenges with hiring people.

[01:48:49] I understand that based on some proposals that were going on before this presentation was given to us, we've had some employees say that they will quit if they have to work on Sundays. But at the end of the day, when you're increasing every possible fee for the residents of this county and they're not getting a service or a schedule that is conducive to them, I find that unacceptable.

[01:49:09] And I think that there's more work that needs to be done. And I hope that my colleagues on the day is what agreed to that. I don't know, Mr. Shorter, what that report or conversation looks like in terms of us getting some help from the private sector. But, you know, I use myself as an example.

[01:49:26] You know, you do yard work throughout the day, on the weekends. There is no way that people are going to make it, you know, to the landfill in time before it closes. And so this is an issue that is personal to me. It's an issue that has caused a lot of heartache, if you will, or heartburn, whatever you want to call it, for the residents in my district.

[01:49:46] And I want a real solution for the residents of this county. Absolutely. Thank you very much, Supervisor Vega. Katab, I wonder if you could just talk a bit about what you found in the analysis of utilization.

[01:50:02] So who's using the landfill during the week versus who's using the landfill on the weekends, and then maybe go back to the slide benchmarking where we are with other jurisdictions. And then certainly, Supervisor Vega, happy to talk about what you might be interested in by way of additional analysis.

[01:50:22] Okay. So we have, again, this is for 24, we have percentages of usage of the landfill for certain hours. For residential, in the morning, it's definitely not a problem, though.

[01:50:40] We're talking about 2% of the people come to the landfill before 7 o'clock, and that's when we're going to open. But, yeah, there's a higher percentage in the afternoon, I would say about 15% of the numbers of the public comes to the landfill.

[01:50:58] However, we have Sunday closed, right? So this is not with Sunday opening. This is just currently right now. So, I mean, we think adjustments, some adjustments will be made to allow that to happen. Again, our hours, as kind of executive Shorter mentioned, is really no different than a lot of their dressing.

[01:51:19] Why doesn't it go there? It doesn't work because it's not on the PowerPoint. You need to use the mouse if you want to move to a different slide. No, that's okay. You got it. Okay, so this one here, right there. So, you know, again, you know, Loudoun is something similar to us. I didn't include Fairfax here really because Fairfax, first of all, is 1.2 million people.

[01:51:40] Additionally, Fairfax doesn't really have a landfill. They have a waste-to-energy kind of a facility or incinerator. But the jurisdictions that are around us that are similar in nature and size, you know, Loudoun's 400,000. We are close to 450, 470.

[01:51:56] So we're within the same range. And they're opening even an hour later than us. And they're managing. I mean, will it take an adjustment? Will it take a change? Definitely. And that's why we're coordinating with the haulers and we're coordinating.

[01:52:12] That's why we need the six months to allow that information to be absorbed by others. And, you know, adjustments in the future, will adjustments be able to be made? But potentially, if we think that that is not a schedule. So the whole idea is I cannot go per day more than nine hours with one shift.

[01:52:30] And we're trying to really have the most efficient possible way of handling the situation while absorbing the cost of going. You know, if I were to leave the schedule as is and add Sunday, we're looking at 14 staff. We've estimated that to be about $4.3 million additional expenditure on the enterprise fund.

[01:52:52] And that's something we really cannot manage without really increasing the solid waste fee significantly. So we're trying to manage within the money that we have and within the budget that we have and within the obligation and the responsibilities that we need to do. I apologize.

[01:53:12] Thank you. So I'm going to move on. I'm going to ask a couple questions, and I'm going to go on. I don't know, Supervisor, if you want to take your second round. I really appreciate the time that's put into this, and this has been something that we've heard. You know, certainly I use the landfill quite a bit, not just Sunday yard work, but doing deep cleaning, what have you, and I appreciate it, the Sunday hours.

[01:53:36] But I just had a couple questions. Looking at the 7 to 4, why go with the same hours? Is there, you know, a way that maybe on the weekends we can open a little later or maybe have shorter hours? I am concerned about the weekday schedule, though, because I am concerned about the commercial haulers.

[01:53:56] Right now with the 6 a.m., I don't know how often they're sending trucks over to the landfill, but I certainly know I do appreciate the efforts that they've taken to have the early morning service so that they're not on the road with the school buses, you know. So what have your conversations been like with the commercial haulers? We've talked to them. We've shared that with them.

[01:54:14] And, you know, they definitely have some adjustment to be made. They mentioned to us, you know, their routes and their setup based on these times. And then they'll have to adjust their routes to see how they're going to fit within that. We're working with them. They asked for data. We gave them all the data that we have from last year, how many trucks from different companies came in and stuff like that.

[01:54:34] And we're still continuing working with them. I mean, will they require an additional truck or two maybe to make that schedule? Potentially, because I've asked him a flat, straight question. I said, well, Loudoun has eight to four. How are you managing? You're operating in Loudoun.

[01:54:50] And so it's not really something that wasn't done around us. This is what it is. We have an extra hour. Yes, they currently have three more hours. But the idea is I can move hours up and down as long as I stay within that nine-hour shift. So I don't have to get into a double shifting for one day.

[01:55:06] And I respect that. But I do want to ask, you actually mentioned holidays. You know, which holidays is the landfill open? Because it was one of your slides. Yeah, pretty much all the holidays, right? Monica Gorman, she is my expert.

[01:55:25] Thank you. Hello, Monica Gorman, Assistant Director of Public Works for Solid Waste. Of the observed county holidays, the landfill is open the majority of them. So we're closed New Year's Day, Christmas Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Fourth of July.

[01:55:42] All right, thank you very much. I can appreciate the hours and that you're trying to keep it to one shift. I would like to, and I'm flexible with maybe having longer hours, Monday through Friday. And then on Saturdays, again, you know, I know you want to be mindful of not having too many shifts.

[01:56:00] You know, what would it look like if we had both Saturday and Sunday and perhaps, you know, an 8 to 12 or an 8 to 1? Because previously, when you guys were open on Sundays, I believe it was around 8 to 12. It was not an all-day shift, right? It was not all day.

[01:56:18] Yeah. All right. Thank you. I am going to go to Supervisor Ware. Thank you, Madam Chair. First off, I'm going to associate myself with everything Supervisor Vega said. But if you're going to tell me it's going to cost us $4 million to open on Sunday, on Sunday alone, outside of the current schedule, I want to see some figures on that.

[01:56:40] I don't want to hear a quotation without some background, some supporting documentation for it. I'm a little irritated. I mean, we raised a solid waste fee two years ago.

[01:56:56] We added a tip fee, which actually serves as a sort of hidden tax to everybody because that tip fee comes back to all the residents who are using a trash service. To my view, a lot of this comes as a result of your predecessor's operation in the landfill, which I wasn't happy with.

[01:57:17] And we don't have the capital fund that we probably should have had for some practices that are no longer in place. That being said, you know, we're talking about consistent increases for a service that people are getting less of. You know, as it's been noted, you know, the other counties may not have Sunday service, but we used to.

[01:57:36] Now, I can't speak to them before the pandemic, but if we had it and they didn't, I mean, this was a service that our residents became accustomed to. Will the haulers take advantage of Sunday? Who knows? I'm kind of curious how you've determined that this will have an impact on the revenue from commercial haulers.

[01:57:59] I mean, they're going to have the loads to dump anyway. So if we're recovering or if we're getting revenue based on the number of loads and a tip fee and their load number is not going to change, you know, absent going to some other county or some other facility, how are we going to be at risk of revenue loss?

[01:58:21] and maybe that is the case um but if it is i'd kind of like to know that um so i'm not real happy and then you know now we get this old ball field issue dropped on us um here's the thing if if the old ball field pile is currently within regulatory compliance um is there an environmental aspect of it that needs to be addressed and if not if we're just doing it to do it for for without any real

[01:58:57] um attributable benefit why would we drop 20 million dollars on it and then chew up a significant portion of uh of phase four i'm assuming because that's where it's going to have to go i'm going to need a whole lot more information on that and what the impact is and what the impact of not doing it is uh prior to my buying off on a 20 million dollar bill and that's it for the moment madam chair that was a lot were there questions in there were they rhetorical but i can i can just Just to add a little bit to the last one regarding the ball field and the battlefield, I've asked the same question.

[01:59:36] I came to public works 10 months ago and I said if we're meeting, why are we doing this? We're doing this because it doesn't meet regulation of today, right? So there's a reason why regulation of today became regulations, right?

[01:59:51] It's because they prevent that kind of water and the material that comes out of the landfill the ground plus the differential settlement at the entrance you know when you drive that the landfill and you go into the landfill that wasn't by design right you know it's not we're not trying to really create a hump this was a settlement because of the trash underneath it so that and also just the the thought of of trash seeping into the underground i mean we we don't we haven't really done testing to see that that's an an issue out there and we can do that and we will continue to do that but again this is something that we can talk about it's not it's really i'm not asking

[02:00:28] for it to be budget i'm just saying showing that it's an area that needs to be cleaned and it needs to be corrected and the board decide not to do that because we are definitely grandfathered in that area we don't have to do that but we'll have to have data behind it to support that madam chair if i mind i mean and i guess that's sort of the point why even put it up there until you've done the testing because if the testing comes back negative why would we do it i mean yeah i i get it you know we're not in compliance with current regulations uh but we're grandfathered you know my house probably isn't in isn't consistent with current building code but i'm

[02:01:07] not going to rebuild the bloody house um i mean there's a cost benefit analysis that needs to be done and it doesn't appear that that's been done at this point we'll do that madam chair So I just want to make sure that we take note.

[02:01:23] So, Katab, based on the analysis that the team did, 2% of the users during the weekday are residents. In the morning. In the morning and 15% in the afternoon. Currently, yes. Yes. So 98% of the users during the week, Monday through Friday, are commercial haulers.

[02:01:44] In the morning. In the morning. I was just giving you the percentage of the residential. You know, the percentage of the commercial, I have a separate set of information if you want that as well. Sure. Okay, for the commercials, 6% comes before 7, and 9% comes after 4.

[02:02:04] So thank you for that, and I wanted to make sure that that was sort of highlighted to really make sure that it was clear that the team, that these hours, this shift was not sort of random in terms of how the team recommended and why the team recommended this nine-hour shift versus a six-to-three or an eight-to-five.

[02:02:28] That said, if the board is interested in us coming back with additional recommendations, we're certainly happy to work the numbers and then bring, that is the intent of this work session, right, to bring back an analysis of what it will cost for that additional second shift.

[02:02:48] What we are hearing from the team is that there will need to be a second shift based on the way that the shift schedule is designed. Yeah, because even with the nine hours, folks arrive before and really leave after.

[02:03:05] So we say nine hours, but it's more like nine and a half hours. And then also, in terms of the weekend and the way that the weekends are designed, What we see often, and please feel free to kind of expound on this, is that on Saturday and Sunday, we are primarily not seeing commercial haulers.

[02:03:22] We're not seeing the routes for trash pickup being run by commercial haulers. That's when we primarily see our residential users. So if you could just talk a bit about that and why. I mean, there's still some commercial on Saturday. Sunday, of course, we've been closed, so we don't have, and talking to them from coordinating with them they usually do not have really uh operations on sunday unless there's an emergency unless they they were not able to pick up and i said that they may they may use that for like a hospital for something that's really with significance but they usually do not i mean

[02:03:56] that's their rest day as they say and i'll also add that uh katab you wade and the entire team you're having a active conversation with our haulers if you could talk a bit about about that and the fact that we will still continue to be open to suggestions from both the board and from the industry as we make a final recommendation?

[02:04:20] Sure. I mean, we've met, we've discussed, and I think Wade is trying to schedule a second meeting this week, hopefully, to really come after we gave them the data that we have because they've asked for the data to see how their routes are and hear them out. And if they come back with something that requires some tweaks, some adjustments, we'll definitely talk to the county exec and wait and see if that adjustments can make it. If we're able to handle it through the budget and without really increased to the fees, because we don't have any proposed increases to the fees for this year. Otherwise, we're going to have to come back with some numbers and say, you know, this is going to require additional staff.

[02:05:01] And really to find temporary staff or part-time staff for one day, it's not that easy. And again, the staff that we're hiring are really not later controlled. There are people that are very experienced. You know, they are heavy equipment operators. There are people that have certain certification and stuff like that. It's a safety, it's a work face that is really very dangerous up there. So you have to be really working with people that know exactly what they're doing.

[02:05:25] So, wait, Supervisor, you had something to say for Chris. Yeah, for the analysis portion. I'd also like to see the data from pre-pandemic operating hours, because what folks are saying is they want those hours right before COVID happened that's all people are asking for and so if we're talking about you know this this existing data that you're referencing Katab I'd like to see that I'd like to see you know the time frame and whatnot but I also think it's equally important to have data from you know operating hours pre-pandemic okay thank you and thank you supervisor Bodie for your patience no problem thank you madam chair thank you Katab for the presentation you're in your team

[02:06:01] for all the work you're doing I know you've been like you said you since the moment you sort of took on the interim role, and now that you're the full-on director, this has been, I'm sure, sort of top of mind for you. So I appreciate your efforts so far. Thank you very much. I'm only going to spend a little time on this before I actually go to other parts of your presentation and your proposed budget here.

[02:06:21] So that all said, I know that this will probably become a little bit even more prevalent now that, you know, a lot more people are returning to work, you know, for a full workday versus, you know, before last month, essentially, right?

[02:06:36] So again, 8 to 4, a lot of people aren't going to be home by 4 o'clock in the afternoon to utilize the landfill. So I'm hoping we can look at that piece of it too. Secondly, I would love to see if there's seasonal data because I know Supervisor Vega alluded to it, but especially during the summer months, a lot more people are doing like spring cleaning than their summer pickups.

[02:07:00] They clean their houses a lot more. They're usually out and about a lot more to do certain things. Have you looked at the seasonal usage and the data behind that? Not in the numbers I gave you. This is average for the entire year, but we have all of that. Okay, appreciate that. I see this as sort of a foundational step, sort of getting standard hours, but hopefully at some point sort of flexing and having various hours depending on the time of year, frankly, because, again, we want this to be – we understand that the hauler, sort of the weekday foundational usage of this, but also it's a public facility for our public residents, right?

[02:07:36] So to me, our ideal, hopefully, is to go to a place where we have hours that sort of jive with where people and when people are going to use it the most. So especially if we have seasonal hours, depending on times of the year, or just even select weekends that we know that people are going to be using the landfill on.

[02:07:51] You know, I can think of after the Fourth of July day weekend as one, Labor Day, those sort of key holidays that we know a lot of people generate a lot of trash over those days and our sort of keynote parts of the summer especially, it would be good to get data around those times too. And so that's all I had on this piece.

[02:08:07] I wanted to talk to you a little bit about a couple of your budget initiatives for this year. One is the landfill gas collection system modifications. Does this have any synergy with the natural gas pipeline project that's been in the works for the past couple of years?

[02:08:30] Yes, supervisor, body, members of the board, You are correct. We are building additional piping systems, but also that expansion is a result of the new phase three, so we're building new cells.

[02:08:48] So as we build new cells, we have to expand that gas collection system within each cell, and it's particularly important now because of the natural gas facility. Sure. I appreciate that. And I assume that, especially as we start talking about phase four, it'll then need to be looked at again and sort of upgrade at that point, too?

[02:09:08] Yes, that's correct. Okay. Appreciate that. And then another initiative that you have this year is have the equipment purchase, and I know that's coming from the Solid Waste Fund, is a general fund obligation. So two questions there. What is the life cycle like of these equipment pieces? So you have a track loader, a bulldozer, an excavator. What's the life cycle like for those?

[02:09:29] typically for a construction equipment i mean it's well maintained and stuff like that i would say five to seven years typically it's based on hours yes the usage of the equipment usually sure and then what do we do with the old ones when they're sort of at the end of life and we replace them we do surplus um equipment so we sell it and then we put that money back into the solid waste fund to offset equipment costs appreciate that and that's all i have madam chair thank you all right supervisor gordy thank you madam chair um

[02:10:08] Thank you, Katab, for this presentation. I do think, based on everything, I think more data would help us. I just want to just state that up front. But I do want to kind of shift to the Ballsford Road facility. You know, correct me if I'm wrong, the composting facility, is that still contracted out to a private entity?

[02:10:32] Yes. Okay, thank you. So the last few times I've been over there, I mean, it just, the composting continues to grow in terms of the mass of composting. Are we at any risk of that running out of space to continue to do what it's doing?

[02:10:50] Or is there enough leaving the site to manage what's coming in? I mean, we have an area, there's an area designated for that operation. They can't go beyond that without really getting permission from us. And so I'm hoping that they'll be selling that, they'll be getting rid of that, and knowing that that is their space, and they can't just encroach on our landfill.

[02:11:09] So they haven't, but right now there's still enough space for them to continue to accumulate the waste in order to continue the composting for a while. Okay. I'm just worried we're going to hit a wall, and at some point we're going to have to figure out what are we going to do with all this compost.

[02:11:30] We'll definitely take that comment and look at it. Okay. It's just trying to manage that going forward. In terms of, you know, on your second slide or first slide, you talk about promote diversion and recycling.

[02:11:46] Can you speak to the recycling program? How well are we doing as a county? You know, I hear things that, well, things will go to a recycling facility, but it ends up in the landfill anyway. What's the status?

[02:12:02] How are we doing? Is it making a difference? It definitely makes a difference. I mean, looking at the volume of material that went into the landfill in the past few years, it's going down, which tells me that some of that is being diverted, some of that is being recycled.

[02:12:18] Now, as they recycle, yes, there are residues that sometimes come back to us, and we have to put it in the fill. But is there improvement for that program in the future? I'm hoping so, and that's why we'll continue to promote that because definitely the more we take out of the landfill, the more area we have for waste for future years and stuff like that.

[02:12:40] So we will continue to promote that. It's doing better, but can it be better? Of course it can. And there was a few weeks ago we dealt with, I think, a grant to keep Prince William beautiful, and part of that program was recycling of styrofoam.

[02:12:57] education and and information and and again all we can do is just really educate and and you know the restaurants until there's a regulation all we can do just educate on on really that the benefit of trying to save that try to to remove that use cardboard and stuff like that because yeah yeah all right the um very good um yeah i just you know you know i try to do my part to recycle uh but you know there's still a lot of things that just go in the trash just because we're not recycling them and and um but it's good to know that the volume of trash going into the landfill is

[02:13:33] actually decreasing and i think that was that's also a useful data point for us um and it's something that we ought to be touting and that's a trend and our team and monica and her team are doing a great job making sure that we don't take out of out of county uh waste yeah and really making sure that the waste that comes to us is really trash because that's what we are regulated for. Yeah, and again, as I said the last time as you were walking out the door, thank you for also including Balls Ford Road facility as opening up on Sunday because that's certainly going to benefit a lot of the community in Western Prince William.

[02:14:09] Thank you, Supervisor. All right, thank you. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mostly the questions that I had mostly were what Supervisor Bodie was asking about the maintenance and the preservation as we're going through, you know, readjusting and looking at FTEs and that kind of thing.

[02:14:31] So I think you've answered those questions, but the maintenance is so important in terms of longevity for the site. But the other question that I had is when I looked at your schedule on page 8, my question, I'm sorry, page 8, is that it?

[02:14:54] Eighth? Eighth. Where you were comparing with Loudon and Stafford. Yeah, yeah. Is there another element that you can add, like, late evenings or into the evenings? Because as people go back to work, there might be opportunities they want to use the facility in the late evenings.

[02:15:15] How will that affect what you're trying to do? It's going to have to take a full analysis because, again, the way we were able to save on cost by adding Sunday was to have that one shift for one day.

[02:15:32] And so the more hours you add, even if you add one more hour, we're still going to have to look at maybe end up with two shifts with an overlap in between, which makes scheduling a little bit more difficult and costly. So that is really the only concern.

[02:15:47] So I have no problem if we could shift it from 7 to 8 and open until 5, so from 8 to 5. But then when I look at the numbers, that will take a significant percentage from commercial holders who are going to the field. you know and and their routes and i mean some of their concern is their routes and you know their stops and they have to calculate all of that you know by the minute when they're going to stop when they're going to go to a second route so if they're going to have to do two routes between the hours of seven and four they're going to have to adjust their routing and that's the additional time that we're asking for for them to see if other if other haulers or other trucks

[02:16:25] can accommodate that within those hours when they do when they take their trip because that trip maybe adjust so it still goes back to the data yes even if we get consultants in it goes back to the and a lot of that really was worked with a consultant so it wasn't like just me and monica no no i know yeah yeah but it's still it's the data that we really sure okay thank you thank you all right last call y'all no one else all right thank you so very much thank you very much appreciate this thank you for inviting us all right we're going to move on to agenda item 12

[02:17:01] agency time. Mr. Shorter. Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the board. So for 12A, we're asking the board's consideration for a zoning map amendment, initiating a zoning map amendment, and I believe Director Washington is going to start us out. Good afternoon, Madam Chair, members of the board, Tanya Washington, planning director with the planning office.

[02:17:28] We are here today for two items. The first is a request to initiate a zoning map amendment. This is DPA 2025-00014, Manassas Business Park in the Brentsville District. And Eric Griffiths from our long-range planning division is here for the presentation.

[02:17:48] Good afternoon, Chair Jefferson, Supervisors. Again, Eric Griffiths from the planning office. As Director Washington said, we are bringing this before you in response to a directive that you made last that the board made last year essentially to bring to before the board initiating a zoning map amendment to reclassify this area you see here on the left that is

[02:18:24] currently zoned planned business district to A1 agriculture and as far as some background on why this is being done again these four parcels were acquired by the American Battlefield Trust and three of the parcels they purchased in 2019 and they they were granted a gifted a fourth parcel there consists of about 152 acres this land is part of the area that is considered the bristow station kettle run battlefields that area is is basically on both sides of the norfolk and

[02:19:03] Southern Railroads that you see on the map here is battlefield land. And what the ABT wants to do is they want to place this property under a conservation easement. And the likely easement holder will be the Virginia Department of Historic Resources. And VDHR has requested that the property be unencumbered by proffers. And back in 2008, when it was zoned planned business district there was a number of proffers put into place in anticipation of a redevelopment that never

[02:19:39] happened. So reclassifying back to A1 will essentially provide the opportunity to remove those proffers and then move these easements forward. The map here is the existing land use map. You can see the area that we're talking about is parks and open space again conducive to an open space easement. That area is surrounded by I-3 industrial and C-Res. And again, the current

[02:20:11] county registered historic site is the current Bristow Station Battlefield Park. The two maps here is existing zoning and proposed zoning. On the left is the existing zoning. On the right is the planned zoning as you can see reclassifying back to A1 will make that area kind of consistent with surrounding zoning districts as well to the south and staff is recommending that the board initiate the zoning map amendment DPA 2025-14 Manassas Business Park for the following reasons

[02:20:51] the zoning map amendment will allow for the reclassification to A1 agriculture to remove the proffers as requested so that the property can be placed under a conservation or historic preservation easement uh this effort will be consistent with efforts to preserve more of portions additional portions of the bristow station and kettle run battlefields and the zoning map amendment is consistent with you know our general efforts for to protect uh prince William County's significant cultural resources and just as a reminder the initiation does not

[02:21:29] mean the board must approve the zoning map amendment after it is studied it just begins the process for that consideration and that's all I have for you thank you very much we'll take your questions now okay before we go on is there anything that I can't see it okay supervisor to Gordy. No, I just, uh, uh, thank you, madam vice chair. Uh, I want to, uh, I just want to thank the staff, uh, for working with American battlefield trust. Uh, you know, this has been

[02:22:03] a long time coming, a lot of work gone into getting, um, this, uh, these parcels, um, uh, protected, uh, given the historic actions that took place there. And, um, and I just wanted to say thank you for this. And, and we've got a few more of these coming in this area. And so this is the first and we look forward to preserving a lot more of this battlefield um and um as we go forward over the next few years so thank you all right i don't see anyone else in queue so i believe

[02:22:39] we can go ahead and take the vote oh we didn't have a motion i thought we had a motion so move madam second all right that's okay i still love you all right if there's no one else let's go ahead and take the vote vote unanimous all right thank you so very much mr shorter yep thank you Madam Chair, members of the Board, with Item 12B, we'll have Director Washington again to talk a bit about the Board, or asking for the Board's consideration in the award of a rotational contract for on-call planning services.

[02:23:21] Good afternoon again, Madam Chair, members of the Board, Tanya Washington, Planning Director with the Planning Office. We are here to request that the Board award rotational task order contracts for on-call planning consultant services for the planning office the planning office would like to establish as needed professional consulting services contracts for on-call planning consultant services for the planning office's projects the most recent set of rotational contracts for the

[02:23:57] planning office for on-call services expired in fy 22 due to ongoing planning office projects and board directives there is a need to secure a new set of on-call contracts to support our current and future projects. The county uses rotational task order contracts for architectural and engineering to perform design and consulting services on an as-needed basis. So I'm just going to talk a bit about the process that we undertook for this effort. The county advertised a request for proposals for on-call E&E services for the planning office in nine expertise areas,

[02:24:35] which I will detail in a moment, in July of last year. The objective of this RFP was to solicit proposals from a qualified pool of contractors for timely and efficient planning services, again, on an as-needed basis. The county established a competitive pool of consultants for nine areas of expertise to award up to three consultants per area of expertise. And then once these awards are awarded, we will then proceed on a task order basis for the individual projects.

[02:25:08] Each contract is written as a one-year contract with up to three one-year renewable options. And, you know, again, it's very helpful and very important for the planning office to have on-call consultants, to have a bench of on-call consultants because then we are able to move faster with procuring consultant services for the variety of the work that we do as opposed to having to do an individual procurement for each project.

[02:25:40] In terms of the fiscal impact, the cost of services will be determined as the project requirements become known and task orders are issued for a specific scope of work for specific projects. And the staff found that each of the selected firms calls proposals to have fair, reasonable, and competitive rates for compensation for the services described in the contracts.

[02:26:01] And the board has a legal authority to award the contracts. So the staff, we had a staff selection committee that reviewed proposals from 20 firms. and the following nine expertise areas. And one thing to note is that some firms submitted proposals for multiple expertise areas.

[02:26:20] We received 13 for community outreach, meeting facility, and event services, 14 for comprehensive planning and land use planning services, 8 for cultural resources management, 5 for development review, 7 for land use ordinances and regulatory tools, 1 for noise studies and review, 12 for planning studies and analysis, Eight for training for planning-related topics, and 12 for urban design, design guidelines, and landscape architecture services.

[02:26:55] And then our staff, once we reviewed the initial set of proposals, we came up with a, or our staff evaluation panel came up with a short list of firms that we then invited for interviews where they gave presentations. We had Q&A and then requested cost proposals prior to selecting the recommendations that we're bringing to the board in terms of the awards.

[02:27:18] Staff recommends the board award rotational task order contracts to 11 firms for on-call A&E services for planning office projects. The recommended firms per expertise area are under Community Outreach Meeting Facility and Events, Brick and Story and the Clearing Incorporated, for Comprehensive Planning and Land Use Planning, AECOM, Michael Baker, and Roadside and Harwell, under Cultural Resource Management Services, Meet and Hunt, and New South Associates,

[02:27:51] for development review, AECOM and WGI, under land use ordinances and regulatory tools, AECOM and Michael Baker International, under noise studies and review, Stantec Consulting Services, also under planning studies and analysis, Stantec, training for planning related topics, Michael Baker International, and then under urban design, design guidelines, and landscape architecture, Land Collective LLC, Michael Baker International, and Smith Group.

[02:28:25] So that concludes our presentation, but the one thing I did want to note is that we do have a number of different types of consulting services related to the wide variety of work that the planning office does. And it was very important for us to be able to have a bench of on-call consultants across multiple expertise areas.

[02:28:45] It's very important to be able to have consultants who have the specific types of skills and specialized experience and projects, depending upon the specific projects that we have. So I definitely would like to thank the staff who served on the evaluation panels, a combination of planning office staff, as well as some transportation, who did the legwork to review and conduct the evaluation of all of these proposals.

[02:29:15] And with that, we again ask the board to award these on-call consultant contracts, and I'm happy to answer any questions. All right, Supervisor Bailey. Wow, I was first in queue. I can't believe it. Tanya, thank you for your presentation.

[02:29:32] I am very excited about this because I just believe that it gives us a broader view, a broader vision as we're serving the community, the county. And so I think I know that the last contracts expired, what, about a year or two ago, but I think it's needed because we are growing.

[02:29:55] And so I think is this in tandem, and I think I know the answer, but I just want to make sure. This is in tandem also to add a stronger season arm to plans, but also to as we are hiring new staff as well.

[02:30:14] It's in tandem with that to make sure that we're given better quality, correct? Yes, that's correct. So one thing, and I believe from a previous board session, Supervisor Vega, I think you asked some questions about how we use consultants, if I recall correctly. And again, you know, this is intended, consultants are very important. They provide very specialized services that can help to augment the staff expertise that we have, as well as staff resources.

[02:30:44] And one thing I will note is that for a number of the projects that the planning office is tasked to do, for example, with new small area plans, with the zoning ordinance update, those are big projects. Even for a small area plan, from my experience, you will have one person in a division who is a project manager, but even within the department, you will have a team of people supporting that effort along with consultants who, again, are tasked to bring very specialized expertise to help to support projects.

[02:31:12] So they do work hand in hand. Our efforts, you know working with the board with the county executive to expand our staffing and again Very much appreciate the additional FTEs. We receive this fiscal year That helps to build out our staffing complement But we do still have a need for consulting services to assist us in being able to deliver the work that the board has asked us to do So that my second question is also how does this work in tandem with the other agencies because I know this was something that Our developmental services department said that they'd be working with you as well.

[02:31:50] So can you kind of describe that as well for us? Sure, certainly. I'll give an example actually of a recent project where we had consulting services and we worked with a team across multiple departments, and that was the Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance.

[02:32:06] We did have a consultant that did assess with developing the initial draft of the ordinance. But all throughout the entire project, at least since I've been involved in it over the last year, we had a team of representatives from multiple departments who met weekly throughout the entire project to develop that draft ordinance.

[02:32:25] So that is certainly something that I have experienced in other projects that I've worked on, where one department is still the lead, but because of the particular scope of that project, you will still need the assistance and participation of other departments in addition to the consultants.

[02:32:41] And the other thing I'd like to also note that's beneficial whenever a department through the county gets an on-call consultant bench is that that consulting services is available for other departments as well because it's the county that's actually awarding the contract.

[02:33:01] So that's something else, which is this, you know, our department through the county being able to have these consultants on board means that other departments, if they have a need for them, could also look to this list to see if they would like to use these services. Thank you.

[02:33:19] Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Tanya, for the presentation. I think everybody on this day is in chambers and watching at home knows how I feel about contractors. I think I've made that point very clear. can you please tell me how much was used um you said that the contracts that this needs to be renewed yes correct yes okay so how much was used last year on consultants i'd have to get that specific information to you do you have a ballpark the only project there were two projects i believe

[02:33:58] that we use consulting services for at least over the last year one was as part of the affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance, and then also for the Thoroughfare Historic District, Overlay District effort, we've been working with a consultant who's been working on the National Register and the State Landmarks nomination process.

[02:34:19] I think those are the only two. Do you have a price? Okay. I'd have to get back to you on how much we spent last year for the- I think he said he can answer it. Yes, he can answer it for the second project. Okay, okay. But for the first one, the Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance, we'd have to get back to you on that.

[02:34:37] Good afternoon, Eric Griffith's planning office. Since I'm the project manager for the thoroughfare, we retained a consultant for the National Register to prepare a National Register nomination for that.

[02:34:55] And that was about, I think it was about $22,000. And we recently have expanded the study scope to an additional, I think, by about an additional $4,000 to that.

[02:35:12] So it's about 20, right now, $27,000 for that. Okay. Okay, thank you for that. And so I guess I'm just a little concerned because in reading the staff report, so it's $2.5 million limit per project and a $10 million per year cap per contract.

[02:35:31] Why would we need such a large sum if, based on the previous year, it doesn't even come close to even being in the millions? Just give me one moment, please. Those maximums are basic limits or maximums that we include for, or that the county includes for all procurements.

[02:36:04] So it's not specific to the planning office or to our projects. It's across the board? Yes. Okay. And then I guess the last point I want to make, Mr. Shorter, you know, the work that we do in the planning office, it's repetitive work, right? We already knew similar to what the county attorney's office does, similar to what any department does.

[02:36:24] at some point I would like to see Prince William County hiring those subject matter experts so that we don't have to continue to waste thousands millions of dollars on contractors because again we already know the kind of work that we're going to do and having to rely and I get it sometimes it's going to be necessary but it seems like it's a reoccurring theme here in the county and I would like to see us having a strong workforce that already has those talented subject matter experts be a part, a permanent part of the county, if that makes sense.

[02:36:58] You know, I do have concerns. Those are my personal reservations. But, you know, you stating that the $2.5 million limit per project and the $10 million per year cap is across the board eases my concerns a little bit, but not really. But that's all I had, Madam Chair. Thank you.

[02:37:19] Supervisor Bode. Madam Chair, if I can, just want to make sure that I address Worley, give Director Washington, the opportunity to address the expertise that we do have in-house. I think what this provides is an opportunity to surge when we need to surge for specific directives and for activities that the board requests and that we need. But in terms of expertise, Director Washington, did you want to speak to this?

[02:37:47] Certainly. We have a lot of expertise, very experienced staff in the planning office, and that will continue to be the case, and that's what we look for when we do hiring. But again, I've worked on quite a number of planning projects, plans, planning initiatives, studies where consultants have been involved, and they are very useful for multiple purposes.

[02:38:09] In some cases, it is to surge when, frankly, to get certain projects done, particularly within a time frame, especially if it's a big, big project, it requires a lot of hands. And so having consultants to help with that work is a part of it. The other piece of it, too, is that As you noted, you know, we certainly want to have a lot of expertise in our staff.

[02:38:28] But there are times, depending upon a specific project, where we need expertise in a very specialized thing for a certain period of time, and that's it. And so that's when having an on-call bench of consultants is also helpful because you are going to them because they have very, very specialized expertise that you may not need all throughout the entire year.

[02:38:50] And then the other piece, too, that's also beneficial for us is that these are, you know, I'm familiar with a number of these consultants having worked on other projects. Not all of them, but quite a number of them. And a lot of these are national firms.

[02:39:07] They do projects throughout the entire country. And so they are actually bringing best practices from other projects that they've worked on similar to the ones that we're working on. So part of what we may be asking them is, you know, what are some best practices that you have applied or that you've learned in doing these types of projects that we could learn from that we could apply here?

[02:39:27] And thank you for that. I just want to be very clear. I never insinuated or intended to insinuate that we don't have talented subject matter experts in the planning office. The point that I'm trying to make is the fact that data centers are not going anywhere, right?

[02:39:43] And oftentimes I've been told that we have to go outside because of noise, because of this request, that request, because we don't have the in-house talent and or expertise. Considering the fact that we have a lieu of data center applications in the works, that's the point that I'm trying to make.

[02:40:01] There are areas where we can bring in that expertise that we're currently lacking that is forcing us to go outside and spend thousands, millions of dollars on consultants. I understand. Thank you. Thank you. If there's nothing else, then I'll go to Supervisor Bode.

[02:40:19] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ms. Washington, for the presentation, for bringing this to us. I noted that in the staff report, you're sort of setting this up to be each contracting is written as a one-year contract, up to three one-year renewable options.

[02:40:35] As you sort of build this out, knowing that the last time we had this kind of rotational set was 2022, it sounds like, are you starting to think of, you know, when is a good time to sort of begin to rotate people out? Are you just going to let them see how they go over three years and see what you're going to do?

[02:40:50] Are you starting to begin thinking strategically around that? Well, before I kind of get to that, in terms of what happens after the contracts are awarded, so within each expertise area, so for example, comprehensive planning and land use planning, whenever we have a new project that we would like to have a consultant on board there is a rotational process there so within the county's sort of procurement systems and operations we don't just say okay i'm going to pick this one you they go into their own rotation whichever one comes up first we decide is that the one that we think will be the best fit for

[02:41:26] this project if so we move forward if we think hey this other firm that's under the same expertise area may be a better fit for this, then there's a process that we can go through with the procurement office to then move on to that. So that's just to select a firm to work with just on specific projects. I think in terms of your question, you know, I'm really focused on, you know, getting the board support so that we can get consultants because we have multiple projects for which we would need consulting assistance for right now. So I'm not at the point of thinking about sort of the next iteration. I'm just you know eager for us to get these um get this assistance um in place so that we can continue to

[02:42:06] move forward with these projects i appreciate that and you sort of hit on my earlier concern without probably anticipating what you mentioned it that you know in most cases you have two or three to choose from my biggest concern i think is expertise areas six seven and eight where there's only one i think and currently so as you begin to build this argument looking to add some to those expertise fields or it's just because where they so rarely come up as issue areas that your office needs to to bring contractors on that you only need feel like you need one i think in an instance if we feel that we may need to look to other resources that would be a conversation we would

[02:42:42] have for us with the procurement office but certainly with regards to specific consultants you know i can tell you my staff can tell you i have a very high standard of what i expect from work quality not just from our staff but also from consultants and so if you know if there are any particular issues with consultants there's a whole process that the county has in order to manage that type of relationship to make sure that we can get the high quality work that we expect for the resources that the county is spending appreciate that and one final question and a comment so as supervisor vega noted that in the staff report says the tos are limited to 2.5

[02:43:22] million dollars for each project with a cap of 10 million per contract knowing that we're in budget season right now I didn't see an ask in the actual budget for this so we're talking about this I sort of was directly moving forward when were we looking at maybe funding this or how are we going to fund it if in the first year if we were going to go about funding this for you words so particular consulting services are built into the budgets for for projects that we have already requested funding for or are requesting funding for so for example we have $500,000 in our budget this fiscal year for the zoning ordinance update. So we that's the money

[02:43:56] that we would use the funding we would use to pay for consulting services. Similarly to the sustainability and resilience integration into the comprehensive plan. So the game plan is if we're requesting that the board provide funding for specific planning projects and initiatives that's the funding that we would use to pay for consultants. Appreciate that. My last sort of a comment as opposed to a question is again i appreciate this i understand super vegas sort of hesitancy and skepticism of more and more consultants and contracts and what have you i see this at least especially for your office is a net good um because for me practically as a

[02:44:32] supervisor the left the one of the biggest thing that that really uh one of my pet peeves is we issue directives in the past we get these things going and they sit on a shelf or we have small plans are as old as 2016 or the rural preservation. I can name tons of different initiatives that this board, either us, the previous board, even before that board has initiated that either started and stopped or got put on a shelf. And I know that part of that has always been that sort of manpower conversation and some other things as well. So I see this as a practical strategic way of you being able to make sure that you keep things moving on time and being responsive not

[02:45:11] only to us, but our residents, too, because I appreciate you have a specific area of expertise here for outreach and that kind of stuff to make sure that the public is well into these processes as well. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right.

[02:45:26] Supervisor Ware. Thank you, Madam Chair. I share Supervisor Vega's skepticism and many of Supervisor Votie's concerns, but, yeah, I can think of far more than just two contracts. I mean, noise, data center siting, that sort of thing.

[02:45:44] You know, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars and there are a variety of other ones. But I look at the list and I see the same old, same old consultants. And in many cases in the past, we've had issues with the results, the work product of those consultants, and I've had complaints.

[02:46:03] In fact, I can remember sitting on the Sustainability Commission and getting complaints that we weren't getting the A or the B team, but we were getting the C or the D team because that's where we slotted in at the amount of money we were willing to pay the contract. I'm worried that there's going to be a considerable expense tied to these.

[02:46:24] You know, we've got a variety of things coming up, and I get it. It's part of it. We'll allocate it, you know, on a case-by-case basis. But I can see this, you know, especially when you talk about zoning ordinance rewrite, small area plans. I can see these things rapidly adding up.

[02:46:41] But my real concern is this. If we're going to hire the consultants, are we actually going to listen to the report and the results that they deliver to us? Because that has not happened in the past. I mean, Supervisor Bode mentioned that we know of certain reports from one of those consultants that ended up in a pigeonhole for two years.

[02:47:00] Or that was changed because some board member told them to change it. And we're still fighting with the implications of, well, this came out on February 1st and this came out on February 24th. which one is valid, and how did they change between the two?

[02:47:17] So I'm not going to hang it up. I'm not going to vote no, but I'm skeptical, and I will be watching the contract costs. All right.

[02:47:33] I don't know if you have anything else or if you want to respond to that. Again, I think it's important to note that I've been here for a year now and certainly can't speak to what has happened in the past, but I have a lot of experience working with consultants on projects, And, again, my biggest focus is making sure that we get high-quality work from consultants.

[02:47:57] And so that is certainly something we would definitely be paying attention to. I definitely appreciate you sharing those concerns, and that's something we would be mindful of. But, again, I think, you know, for the planning office, you know, in terms of current contracts, we have no current consulting contracts.

[02:48:14] The consultants who have been working with us over the last year, those were from the previous contracts. So it's really important for us in terms of moving forward with the variety of projects and initiatives that the board has asked us to do to have this assistance.

[02:48:30] But we are very mindful of the concerns that have been expressed, and we will definitely keep that in mind as we, you know, continue to work on these efforts. Madam Chair, I guess that's kind of my point. I mean, we know, we know the public knows as a result of FOIA, a lot of people know.

[02:48:47] you know, there have been contracts issued with contractors whose contracts had expired. So new day, let's hope it's different than the past, but I think some of us are going to be skeptical until we actually see the change. All right. Thank you. Supervisor Bailey.

[02:49:08] I was just going to suggest what I appreciate so much about this item, Madam Chair, is that this is on call and we call these consultants in when we actually need them.

[02:49:25] So this is based on activity that the planning team is in need of, you know, sort of at the moment. So I certainly understand the concern, and I think we all hear it, and we will be monitoring closely as well. But I just wanted to remind the board that this item, as it is coming to you for consideration, as an on-call contract is one where it really is based on the planning staff's current activity and need.

[02:49:54] Thank you so much. I had two things. And certainly, I think that's why I'm excited about it, because it is on call and it's a bench that we can lean on in a time when we need it. And so I think we need to go back to that because of the growth that we're experiencing.

[02:50:15] But aside from that, my two questions are, number one, you have mentioned several times you've had experience in engaging in this way, and we certainly appreciate that. But I just would like for you to also speak to the experience that you've garnered since you've been here at Prince William County, because our needs are quite different from whence you come.

[02:50:42] Yes, yes, and that's very much the case. And what I was speaking to was really more sort of the client consultant sort of managing that relationship. But definitely, you know, over the time that I've been with the county, I definitely appreciate the uniqueness of Prince William County.

[02:51:00] Yes. To say the least, yes. I say that in a positive way. I receive it in a positive way. But that also means as we bring consultants on board, we also have to make sure that they understand the uniqueness of Prince William County. and make sure that we scope our projects in a way so that the services that we request will be responsive to the particular needs of this county.

[02:51:22] Thank you. And the other thing that I wanted to just mention in reference to what my colleague had mentioned about in reference to data centers and the needs that we've had in the past, number six is absolutely essential, noise studies and review, because as we do know, there are other opportunities with data centers in the hopper that we are currently working through.

[02:51:46] And so with that, I guess my question to that is that what we have learned and is that going to be, is that just a recommendation for that one entity or are there others that we may be able to explore in terms of the noise studies and review?

[02:52:05] Well, certainly if the board awards this contract, then we would have Stantec on board for noise studies and review. But if there is, if, you know, working through these cases, If the county identifies the need for additional consulting assistance, again, that's a conversation that we can have with the county executive and with the procurement office.

[02:52:25] And I say that, thank you, excuse me, Director Washington. I say that in reference to an element of trust and where we've come from in terms of just really understanding data centers and what is needed. I think that might, if the board approves this today, but there are other opportunities to have more data, more precise data as we go forward.

[02:52:50] Thank you. All right. I don't have any other questions. Madam Chair. Oh, Supervisor Bode. I'd like to move 12B forward. Second. All right. And thank you, Ms. Washington, for your presentation today.

[02:53:07] All right. Does anyone have any comments? Supervisor Bode? Thank you again, Ms. Washington, for the presentation. Like I said, I'm understanding all the concerns that have been expressed today. I'm very optimistic about this, frankly. Um, there's a lot of really, really cool things that your office is working on right now.

[02:53:26] A lot of it gets really nerdy. A lot of people don't even know what's going on. Um, but you know, things like form-based zoning, you know, the zoning tax amendments, all the things that your office is doing, the small area plans, it's all really important stuff, especially us sitting here at this dais, but also frankly, the future of the County. So I'm hoping this will give you guys the, the injection of jet fuel that you'll need to tackle all of it in the years to come.

[02:53:46] And it basically get you to a point where you're able to flex into new things that I know we've talked about in the past um so i'm really hopeful that this gets you to where you need to be so you're able to uh fully unlock the the potential of your your department thank you madam chair all right i don't see anyone else um i do just want to say i want to actually thank your staff very much so um for this weekend for the extra work that was done on wellington glenn which you know has now been deferred and i really want to highlight in particular alex venegas and while this is not part of the need for a consultant you know I have always told your team

[02:54:25] I know you guys work very hard and I support additional staffing but during recap I am going to formally make a request that you hire another staffer for current planning a senior staffer because I think that that is something that is urgently needed and again your staff y'all work very hard you have been understaffed for quite a while you came into a department when it was when I had bled talent, you have worked hard to turn things around, but I want to make sure that you have additional staffing, even more so than what is on our budget, because I recognize we are

[02:55:00] a growing county. We have put a lot on you and a lot on your department, so I just want to mention that. Thank you. We appreciate the support. All right, since there's no one else, let's go ahead and take a vote. Vote unanimous. All right, thank you so very much. We are moving on to supervisor's before we go around the dais um there is one resolution and that's the point nancy veards

[02:55:37] to the upper occoquan service authority can i get a motion so move that chair second all right let's go ahead and take a vote on that vote unanimous all right thank you very much i'm going to do things a little differently supervisor vega i'm gonna let you go first fantastic i have a notice of intent to appoint cheryl kenny to the ida uh her resume should be on file and that's all i have I hope everybody else is as quick as I am.

[02:56:11] Unfortunately, we won't be. Supervisor, I'm sorry, y'all. I'm going to take a lot of time. Supervisor Franklin. Hello. I have a few more items, but I'll make it very quick. On Wednesday, I hosted our annual Woodbridge District Black History event. Our topic that we focused on was black professionals working in public safety and the law.

[02:56:30] We were joined by U.S. District Judge Rossi Alston of the Eastern District of Virginia, Sheriff Glenn Hill, Lieutenant Asher Robinson of the Police Department, and our very own supervisor, Victor Angry. Great conversation. I will be sending a directive in the future just re-upping about us kind of preserving African-American history here in the county.

[02:56:52] We had a dynamic discussion. It was two hours long, which you think is long, but when you have a legend like Sheriff Hill and Judge Alston, you need more time to get these individuals in a room, put a video in front of them, and just let them tell their stories.

[02:57:07] So I'm going to re-up the directive for us to focus a little bit more on that so we can really get our history documented. So thank you to those who participated. Very wonderful discussion. You can also find the recording of the video on our Woodbridge District YouTube channel, apparently.

[02:57:26] On Thursday, February 27th, I also attended the Black History Month breakfast sponsored by Senators Kane and Warner along with Congressman Bobby Scott in Washington, D.C. and also later I attended the Prince William County Black History Month program at the Hilton Performing Arts Center.

[02:57:42] Thank you to the Black History Program Committee. Excellent event, always excellent, and had a very good time learning additional history that maybe didn't know before. So thank you to the county for that. Also, I was the keynote speaker at Freedom High School later that day for their Black History program where I spoke about my journey as a public servant and as an elective representative.

[02:58:06] So thank you to Freedom High School, Principal Smith, and their sponsor, Deanna Forbes, for that invitation. Yesterday, I toured the forensic lab from the Prince William County Police Department. One of the bigger things that we discussed was storage space for their videos as well as additional space for them to operate, period.

[02:58:28] So we had a very good discussion. If you didn't know, we have one of the few expertise forensic lab system in the entire region. They get called by other jurisdictions to help out, and they are also certified from the FBI and the CIA and Secret Service.

[02:58:48] So we have a very good team up there. There's only a few of them, but they are very good. Just very quickly, this week I'll be attending the Prince William Water Invitational at Unity Area High School, and I will also on March 15th be participating in the commemoration of the life of Patriot William Grayson I do this annually he was a Revolutionary War Patriot and one of our two U.S. Senators from Virginia and an active member of the Virginia Committee of Correspondence so I will be participating in that again this year on March 17th I will participate in the 60th anniversary celebration of the Woodbridge Women's Club and so we'll be again joined by them and on March 25th I will be hosting alongside Supervisor Bailey our Women's History Program at the Fralazzo Building

[02:59:27] We will be honoring several trailblazing women in our community and more information to come. I'll also be hosting an affordable housing roundtable on the 23rd. We'll send more information about that. And then we will be doing Dumpster Day on May 31st at Fred Lim Middle School. Also just want to point out Freedom High School girls basketball team, their season ended in the playoffs.

[02:59:47] But I want to highlight Coach Mia Lloyd, who received Coach of the Year, as well as Lonnie Johnson, who received Player of the Year. So very proud of Freedom High School, and we'll continue to support them. I have a couple of announcements. Parks and Recs, the conversion of two tent shelters to wooden shelters at Veterans Park is complete.

[03:00:08] Also, ADA-compliant parking space along Blackburn Road for access to the Neabsco Boardwalk received the asphalt surface course installation last week. People really do ask us about this and pay our attention, so thank you for that. And then also at the Neabsco Boardwalk, the kayak launch is now complete, and we are planning a ribbon cutting for those projects where we will send more information.

[03:00:31] And then lastly, the contractor will remove trees before the end of March at the Featherstone Wildlife Refuge Segment Construction Project. The boardwalk and bridge shop drawings have been reviewed and approved. So thank you to Parks and Recs and Transportation and others involved in those projects.

[03:00:48] And with that, I yield. All right. You get 33 seconds. All right. Mr. Gordy, Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yesterday, I had the pleasure of receiving a briefing and tour at the General Dynamics Progeny offices.

[03:01:06] Progeny was founded in Prince William County as a small business nearly 25 years ago, and today they now have over 300 high-paying jobs in Greater Prince William. They are currently expanding operations and building a third facility and will bring another 150 new jobs to the county in Greater Prince William this spring.

[03:01:27] So I want to congratulate the Progeny team on their tremendous success, and we look forward to their continued growth in support of our national defense. Very excited about tomorrow with the ULI TAP. I'm looking forward to getting started and seeing what the recommendations coming out of that program will be and working with my colleagues on that plan going forward.

[03:01:50] Yes, Supervisor Vega will be working with it. It will be a partnership. This week, past weekend, began the season of Ramadan for our Islamic neighbors, and I just want to wish them all an easy fast. This evening, three high school basketball teams from the Brentsville District will be playing in the state quarterfinals.

[03:02:10] The Patriot Boys, Brentsville Girls, and Gainesville Girls, and I want to wish them much success for victory tonight in their matchups. I also saw on the news that two Prince William County young men earned their Eagle Scout badge. Donovan Jimenez and Luke Brockenberry with the Dell City Scout Troop 1919.

[03:02:29] I want to congratulate these two young men for both earning and achieving such an honor, and they will be honored for this on March 12th at VFW Post 1503. I want to point this out because over the last couple of years, it's the VFWs, the firehouses, churches, and other organizations have stepped up to become sponsors for our scouting organizations i think covid kind of messed things up when they were working and sponsored by the school system um and so now that you know they've been able to land in other places and so really appreciate the community organizations for stepping up

[03:03:08] to support our scouts in prince william county and lastly i just want to note that today is Mardi Gras, otherwise known as Fat Tuesday, and that means tomorrow is Ash Wednesday in the beginning of the Lenten season, which will proceed until Easter Sunday on April the 20th. And to our county residents who will be participating in Lent, I pray your fast in remembrance of Jesus Christ's sacrifice draws you into closer relationship in both likeness and in personal relationship. I yield back, Madam Chair. Okay, we're not on the hill, y'all, but okay, all the

[03:03:44] healing supervisor angry i'm going to go to you next wow thanks um so congratulations to the county for putting on a great uh black history month program at the hilton performing arts that was really good performance um yeah now school elementary school career day great job there a lot of folks came out including the chair we had a great time with all of the kids so i thank you for inviting us great performance vfw just hosted their first women's small business expo great turnout filled the room uh so congratulations on a great um performance there and then just

[03:04:23] upcoming this saturday uh you know old old uh old town manassas their 25th annual saint patrick's day parade at manassas park so come on out and join us that kicks off at 11 o'clock thank you manager thank you for not yielding supervisor bode thank you madam chair um just a few things from me uh Wednesday of last week I got a chance to have my sort of annual meeting on the Occoquan Greenway with LRPRA um we we started doing this sort of yearly thing we meet at their clubhouse to talk about the the progress of the Greenway we had a lot of great things to share this year

[03:04:59] um you know we had the bridge put in uh two years ago we have two bridges coming in this year um substantial uh completion of very uh very large segments of the trail will be coming through in the next couple years. So really excited to see that project continue to move forward. Also had our monthly Metropolitan Washington Air Quality Committee meeting last week on Wednesday. Always happy to sit down with our regional colleagues to talk about air quality issues and what we're doing to keep moving the ball forward there. On the evening of the Wednesday, the 26th, I had a chance to pop over to Manassas Park City Hall for the Route 20 Innovative Intersection Design Public

[03:05:39] hearing. That is a VDOT-led project, but it's in consultation with our folks. I know Senator Danica Rome was there. Some other folks were there, other elected officials. A lot of obvious interests around 28. So always happy to talk to folks about what's going on down there and what we plan to do moving forward to help alleviate traffic issues in that corridor as well. On Thursday, I spent most of the day last week on the Hill, actually, in D.C. I went to the 2025 Commonwealth Black History Month events hosted by Senators Kane and Warner.

[03:06:15] Always a great time there. Then later on that day, I actually got a chance to speak on a panel that was hosted by the National Association for County, Community, and Economic Development. We talked a lot about the HOME program that was administered by the federal government and all the great things that localities are able to do with those funds and those programs.

[03:06:39] I know that we use a predominant amount of our funds for our first-time homebuyers program, but it's always great to learn throughout the country what other folks are doing with it. They're doing things like using it to layer with their affordable dwelling unit ordinances and their LIHTC programs and other funding mechanisms as another layer to get that gap financing done, so always great to share values and ideas around that.

[03:07:03] And I always enjoy sitting around with a bunch of housing nerds. So that was a great time just from that perspective as well. On Thursday night, I got to speak, speaking of scouts, at the Boy Scouts of America Weblos.

[03:07:19] That was actually three different scout troops I got a chance to talk to. Two of them were doing their citizenship badge. So that's the one where they have to talk to an elected official or a politician about what they're up to and whatnot. Another troop was there needed to talk to me about elections.

[03:07:36] Always great to talk to different scout troops. I will always say one of the best things I love about this job is getting a chance to talk to young people, hear their ideas, their vision, and the questions they ask. They always ask really, really great questions whenever I go.

[03:07:52] And their parents often jump into, especially when you start talking about taxes and transportation. So that's always a fun time. Last but not least, actually that might be it, but let me just make sure. Oh, yes, certainly last but not least, I popped on my feed the other day, but I noticed that our county executive has launched a new initiative called Shorter Talks.

[03:08:17] I thought he might talk about it during his county executive time, but he did not, so I'll give him the pleasure of talking about it at some point. It was a really great flagship first talk he had. um he spoke um about the crisis um crisis response system um and i'll let him share it another time but he interviewed heather baxter our behavioral health system program manager with community services and i i look forward to those little digestible bits of really talking to some of the best uh the best that our county has to offer looking forward to tuning in for some more

[03:08:53] thank you madam chair supervisor weir thank you madam chair i too will be at the sudley road corridor studies wednesday and thursday i believe um i think probably my office will be there too so if anybody wants any input on that um or feedback on that please give me a call i'm going to pass out to the board um a page out of the henrico county budget um you guys know i'm a budget nerd i look at a lot of other jurisdictions budget and we've been talking about decoupling the c and p tax for data centers well henrico was doing that with their nascent uh data center

[03:09:31] development. They're not getting very much money from the data centers this year, or they're not projecting very much. It's like $13.6 million. But they actually have a slide in their budget presentation, and it delineates how much of the data center money is coming in and how that's going to offset, and I can list these off, a personal property rate reduction and a real estate tax reduction for all the residents in the county, as well as a total tax relief of $18.3 million.

[03:10:01] food for thought for the finance department with respect to the delta between data center taxes and any lowering of the personal property tax and how that might be how the delta might be used to reduce the either the real estate tax or the personal property tax last thing i've got is without objection i do have one short directive and i've worked on with both county attorney and And the county exec is town residents are also county residents and pay county taxes.

[03:10:32] Without objection, I would like to direct staff to review the memorandum of agreement between the Prince William County Police Department and the incorporated towns of Prince William County regarding the use of the Mike Pennington Scenario-Based Training Center. I'd like staff to provide information regarding the use of the facility by the towns and an option to amend the agreement such that the county would absorb the facility use costs for the town as part of the police department's proposed budget.

[03:10:55] Staff should include in their consideration the terms and benefits of the county of all mutual aid agreements entered into between the Prince William County Police Department and the incorporated towns of Prince William County. The information should be provided to the board in a memorandum. The county attorney's office is directed to review county staff's information and recommendations for any legal issues.

[03:11:15] And that's all I've got. Thank you so very much. Vice Chair Bailey. Bob, it's my turn. Take that back. No, I'm just kidding. Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, good afternoon, everyone.

[03:11:31] I had a wonderful time on February 26th with the Dell City Elementary School Black History Month program where I had the fun with Mayor Wood, Derek Wood, with the kids, kindergarten to third grade.

[03:11:52] Imagine that. And then on February 26th, our Chair Jefferson's town hall, thank you for your invitation. It was very informative and very cozy, and I appreciate your support. And then on the 27th, at the Commonwealth Coffee for Black History Month with Senators Warner and Kane, that was equally exciting to share with my colleagues.

[03:12:20] It was a great time. They do it every year, and so I really, really appreciate that. Also on the 27th, congratulations to the Black History Month program for our county. I missed it, but congratulations. I heard it was fabulous. My staff attended.

[03:12:36] On the 27th for, okay, what is this? I'll have the opportunity to support Madam Chair at the annual Chamber Business Awards Dinner.

[03:12:51] It was fabulous. And congratulations to the Spring Hill Sweets Potomac Meals recipient who supported us with the Sohan Cup. And I really appreciate the partnership. We all appreciate the partnership. Then on the 28th, I sat with, again, Mayor Wood and Delegate Candy King and our own Dr. Latonya McDade, Superintendent of Schools, for a Black History Month program under the theme of Representation Matters.

[03:13:20] And we had an audience of high school juniors and seniors of about 300 young folk, and they had some great questions, and they were engaged. On the 28th, I had the opportunity of supporting Project Mental House, assisting living at the Tribute at the Glen here locally in your district, Kenny, and they had their annual fundraiser and gala, if you will.

[03:13:48] It was really a lot of fun being a board member emeritus. I really appreciate the work that they're doing for our senior citizens in the community. On the 1st of March, I attended the Innovate to Elevate Women's Conference that was provided by the Northern Virginia Black Chamber.

[03:14:09] It was excellent, it was well attended, and it was just engaging to see how our small businesses are serving from a regional perspective. As County Exec has mentioned, the State of the Parks address will happen on the 6th of March.

[03:14:28] I will be attending that, and it will be at the Forest Park High School in my district. I'm excited about that. And then on the 25th, I'm excited about participating with Supervisor Franklin for Women's History Month, as we always do since we've been in the office, so I really appreciate that.

[03:14:43] In closing, I'd like to provide a notice of intent for Mr. George T. Stewart, And I think you have his, okay, he got the resume for the Board of Equalization. And I just want to end with this. To all of those facing tough times right now, please know that you're not alone.

[03:15:01] Your Board of County Supervisors is right there with you. It's small acts of resilience, the moments of kindness, and the strength you may not be even realizing at this time. But we are right there with you. Know that this PWC Board is praying for you and supporting you.

[03:15:17] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you so much. Before I officially start my supervisor's time, we do have a little bit of board business we have to take care of, and that is setting our tax rates. As we all know, you know, we can always go lower, but we cannot go higher than what we set.

[03:15:35] So with that, and we're going to have a little bit of discussion around this, it is my desire to discuss raising the C&P tax rate and go with a higher rate for that. Personally, I would like to look at, have discussions with lowering the personal property tax rate.

[03:15:53] Personally, I recommend that the other taxes that we have, our property tax rate, our personal property tax rate, our fire levy, mosquito, and solid waste, you know, I would like to advertise those at the current rates. We can always go lower, and for some of them, I really would like to go lower after we have a thorough discussion.

[03:16:12] But I want to see if anyone had any questions, comments, and concerns, because today is the day. Supervisor Booty, and then we are. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I agree that what's been most flexible for us in the past is to advertise them high, and then at recap, see where we are with updated projections and go lower at that time.

[03:16:35] I would be comfortable with us raising the CMP for data centers specifically to 415. I would also like to note, when we've had the discussion, the data center tax, the C&P tax, has been decoupled from the car tax. So we can actually set different rates for them.

[03:16:53] Supervisor Ware? Thank you, Madam Chair. A couple of things. Yes, I'm in favor of decoupling the C&P. But like I just said, in the budget presentation from Henrico, they're sort of making plans with what to do with it and how to grant the tax relief.

[03:17:12] It's worth noting, though, that many jurisdictions haven't even received their budgets yet. I cannot go along with the proposed rate for real property in any event I've looked at the budget I've got some serious questions about the size of the budget the size of the transfer and I don't I think that absent setting the bar a little bit lower we're setting ourselves up to simply pass a significant

[03:17:45] tax increase on the residents, we can veil it or shroud it in any manner of, you know, explanations with we dropped the rate, we did this, we did that, but to the end of the day, it's the actual tax paid, so I cannot support the current rates, at least on the real estate tax.

[03:18:06] I could probably do it on everything else, but if you want to, you know, separate the question, divide the question, and do real estate tax separately, that's fine with me. Supervisor Gordy. Just a quick question.

[03:18:23] If we wanted to also consider reducing the meals tax, is that something that we also have to advertise? That's an ordinance. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Everyone disappeared for a second. Okay. Vega, was there someone else on cue?

[03:18:39] Because my screen had cleared. Real quick, I support what Supervisor Rears said. I'd like for us to break up the proposals and vote on those separately. All right. That's fair. We are going to be doing, I believe, what it is, a straw poll for today. Yes, so we're going to do a straw poll, again, just for advertising purposes.

[03:18:56] So really quickly, I'm going to go through. We're going to talk about property, car tech, C&P, fire, mosquito, solid waste. I'm actually going to heart C&P. Madam Chair, we're going to do a straw poll and then advertise? I thought we had to vote on that other than straw poll. It's got to be a recorded vote, correct?

[03:19:11] Does it have to be? To set the rate? We're advertising. To set the advertising? Yes, this is just for the advertised rate. I'd prefer a recorded vote. I don't, I'm going to look at, there is no, I'm going to, Madam County Attorney, do we need a recorded vote for, because I don't think we did this last year.

[03:19:31] Madam Chair, members of the board, the county executive needs direction from the board as to how to proceed with advertising the rates. It can be done by a recorded vote or it can be done by a straw vote. He just needs to be clear as to what the board's direction is as to how to advertise the rates.

[03:19:47] And then when it comes back for the public hearing, then the board has to take an adopted vote on that. So we're going to go ahead and just do a straw poll, and I'm going to, let's talk about C&P rate before we go down the list. Again, it's my recommendation, except for C&P, that we advertise the current rate. Does anyone have any suggestions for C&P to advertise?

[03:20:04] I know to bring us in line with other jurisdictions, I think that Loudon is at 415, and I think Fauquier is as well. I don't know. Supervisor Franklin? Sure. Just for clarification, I don't mind increasing C&P as it impacts data centers, but in separating it out, will it impact other businesses, other types of businesses?

[03:20:27] Because I still want to have that discussion at some point. Again, don't mind for data centers because they can afford it, but these other businesses are the ones, and I think we have like over 500 that will be impacted by the tax rate. So we really do need to figure out how we can help those businesses out who are not the mega businesses.

[03:20:48] And I'm certainly open to the discussion. You know, we could talk to you to get, you know, some additional, I'm sorry, did you have anything, Mr. Shorter, on that? I was only going to just suggest that we can, during the presentation on the revenue, in, what, two weeks, we can come back and have the discussion about the other businesses outside of data centers that might be impacted by, just to not derail the conversation that we're having today.

[03:21:14] I appreciate that. Supervisor Bailey? No, Manager, I think the county exec just answered my question. All right, thank you very much. So for C&P, again, I don't know if you had anything. Supervisor Bodie? All right, 415.

[03:21:31] All right, so I'm going to go down the line. Again, Stravo, just so we can give direction. Property tax, leaving it at its current rate. How do you stand on that, Supervisor Bailey? Yes. All right, I believe, Supervisor Weir, you're a no.

[03:21:47] Property. Bodie? Yes, we're talking about real estate property. Real estate, yes. Okay. Vega? No. Franklin?

[03:22:03] we're talking about property real property estate yes yes all right gordy so i just want to make sure so uh we're advertising the max rate which is the current rate yes which we can then push down yes sir i absolutely support pushing it down okay um in order to uh provide relief to our our our community but um so i just look forward to the discussion and and while i do not support the current rate you know um i can support advertising the current rate and then working it down from there all right and i support advertising the current rate so we will advertise the current

[03:22:38] rate for property the car tax that is the personal property tax the dreaded car tax which i just paid the other day because i got another car all right so supervisor bailey do you support advertising it as a current rate yes supervisor where no if we are going to um decouple from cmp um we are We're going to decouple from C&P, but supervisor Booty.

[03:23:11] And that's the current rate of 370? Yes, sir. Yes. All right. Supervisor Angry. Can I explain a little bit? But I'm going to say no because I'm for decoupling the car from the C&P. It's not for raising the C&P. I am for working out a way to lower car tax.

[03:23:29] And that is fine, but we're just going to, this is just advertisement purposes. All right, so, and then Supervisor Vega. No. Okay, and then Franklin? We are talking about the personal property, yes.

[03:23:45] I just call it personal property as it is the car tax. All right, and Supervisor Gordy. So do you guys have another rate you would like to advertise? I can come up with any number you want. Well, I mean, we've got to set a rate. We've got to, we've got to, we don't have another rate.

[03:24:03] So here, before. Until we get the delta of what the additional revenues from raising the C&P taxes, I don't think we could even have the discussion. So, and that's why I'm saying let's advertise what we are currently at. So, I'm sorry, Supervisor Angry is now a yes.

[03:24:20] Supervisor Gordy? Yes. All right, so we are going to go ahead and advertise the current rate for the car tax. C&P tax, $4.15 was put on the table. I don't know, we talked about what it was going to be.

[03:24:37] I don't know if anyone has any questions, Supervisor Vega? Okay, because you look like you're ready. I'm a yes. All right, Vega's at Vice Chair Bailey. C&P. Yeah, that's you. 4.15. How do you feel, C&P? Supervisor Weir. Supervisor Bodie. Angry. Vega. Yes. Franklin. Gordy. All right, we are going to advertise at $4.15 for C&P. Fire. This is for the current rate. I'm going to do fire mosquito solid waste. You know, I don't know if anyone wants to break any of these out. How do you feel, Supervisor? All right. Weir.

[03:25:17] as i said last week i still want to roll them into a one thing one thing no okay you are a no um booty angry vega no franklin gordy all right so we are going to advertise fire mosquito and solid waste at the current rates again we can all go down and i have a feeling and i've said this the car tax that is something i think that we should look at some kind of relief and we'll see what we can do with the residential tax rate as well because these are tough times for people

[03:25:53] and going into that i had the pleasure of speaking and attending congressman supermanian's town hall week thursday and that's something that came up you know we know i'm sorry did you have a quick question supervisor franklin no i would rather you go ahead um so i know we're going to talk about this uh moving forward but obviously we're doing a straw poll now i support the 415 again for data centers, but I'm assuming, and this may be for Michelle Robo or Atreid, we don't have the authority to separate out for C&P like other businesses outside of data.

[03:26:34] That's correct, as in we cannot separate out. That is correct. We can't single out businesses in any way when it comes to taxes, so I don't think we have the authority to do so, but Michelle, you want to?

[03:26:55] While you can adopt a separate rate for CMP, the data centers have the option to file under the other category. So if you set a higher rate for CMP, they could choose to file under the computer and peripheral in a business because they also meet that definition.

[03:27:13] Okay. All right. Thank you. I'm sorry. That's going to require Michelle. Michelle? Michelle? Back to the mic. Back to the mic. Thank you very much, ma'am. I just wanted to understand, you know, is there a way that we can prevent that? General Assembly legislative change.

[03:27:31] All right, that seems to be an answer for a lot of things. Supervisor, I'm sorry, did you have something? I was just going to add, Madam Chair, members of the board, the Virginia Code currently states that if property can be classified in two different categories, it has to be done in the lower one.

[03:27:48] And so the computers and peripherals for data centers could be in the regular or in the data center, and therefore you would have to adjust both if you want to hit that, and it would hit other businesses, their computer and peripheral. That is an important distinction, and I do think that when we have the discussions on this, it is worth clarifying, but again, do we need to, because we've set the rate, we've agreed for 415 for C&P, do we need to set another rate for other businesses, county attorney, no? No, we're good?

[03:28:24] Madam Chair, the rate would be for all computers and peripherals for all businesses. Yes. And then you can, as you've stated, you can come lower, you just can't go higher than what you set the rate at unless you do another public hearing. Supervisor, right, hold on.

[03:28:51] Supervisor Bailey. I think the county attorney just answered my question. We just voted to elevate it to 415. Advertise. Advertise. That's why I said elevate. I meant advertise. But we can go lower if we decide.

[03:29:10] Okay. Just clarity. And Mr. Schurter came to me. There are a couple other things that we need to advertise for. Stormwater and forest pests. We need to advertise the rates for those, I suggest. Again, leaving them as is. I'm going to go around. Supervisor Bailey.

[03:29:27] Supervisor Weir. Supervisor Brody. Aye. Supervisor Vega. Supervisor Franklin. Aye. Supervisor Gordy. Aye. All right. I agree. Sorry, what? Oh, Vic.

[03:29:43] Supervisor Angry. All right. I am so sorry. Good sir. So we are going to go ahead and advertise stormwater and forest pests as is. All right. I think we're all good before I go back.

[03:29:59] Madam County Attorney, do we have to advertise the other rates, inspections and such as well? Does that require a motion? Madam Chair. Mr. Shorter.

[03:30:15] The stormwater fee. I want to just maybe, Dave, have you come up to the podium. There's a 3% increase that we presented as part of the budget slides. I just want to make sure that we get that right. I apologize. Thank you.

[03:30:30] Yes, that is correct. The county executive's proposed budget is based on stormwater fee rates that represent basically a 3% increase compared to the current fiscal year and fiscal 25.

[03:30:49] The proposed budget also has smaller increases to, I believe, land development fees. That would be advertised as well. That is a complete schedule, excuse me, and yeah.

[03:31:06] Yeah, it would be helpful unless there are concerns for us to get more direction on all of the recommended, county executive recommended fee and the fee schedule. That way we are clear with what was presented.

[03:31:25] And now the fee schedule, the planning fee schedule, I believe, I did not recognize, I realized, you know, we have discussed the other fees or most of the other fees. That is something you're saying you need for, and is that something, because I don't know if everyone's had a chance to look at that. Do we need to do that tonight? I don't think so.

[03:31:43] We don't necessarily need the development fees. Dave, help me with this one. We typically do advertise the development fee schedules. That is not something the board necessarily has to take up tonight.

[03:31:58] That can be advertised later on, but you've given us good direction today. So then for the stormwater fee, that is a 3% increase, which means I'm going to go around the horn again. All right. So for the, I apologize for stormwater, that includes a 3% increase.

[03:32:16] Supervisor Bailey, are you? Supervisor Weir. Supervisor Bodie. Supervisor Angry. Supervisor Vega. Supervisor Franklin. Supervisor Gordy. I am a yes. So we will go with the stormwater fee with a 3% increase.

[03:32:32] And again, everything can go down. Anything else? All right. Thank you so very much. Sorry, Supervisor Bailey. So I think to Supervisor Weir's point, so again, having the board say based on the budget presentation that was provided, the fee schedule, so development services and others, I want to make sure that we get a record of the board saying, yes, we can move forward with that.

[03:33:07] All right. Based on, I apologize, Supervisor Bailey. Do you have a question related to that? I have a statement. Are the gentlemen? Are y'all done? Okay, thank you. I just wanted them to get that thought out because I knew it was relevant. But I just want, just for clarity, for public's sake, this is an advertisement only. This is not the final.

[03:33:31] This is an advertisement only. We are required to advertise. There's going to be a lot of horse trading, arm wrestling, mudslinging, cupcakes, I don't know. We're going to have a lot of discussions. thank you and i do want to make that clear we're going to have a lot of discussions what we set tonight may not be what we do i personally and i've said this last year like advertising at the highest rate to give us flexibility i see this as a place that it is our ceiling we can always go lower and i'm sorry supervisor shorter you had given language based on the budget i'm sorry

[03:34:07] supervisor i don't know if that's an insult or a compliment promotion to motion yeah i don't know I apologize, but I'm trying to do lifestyle, I mean, lifestyle change. All right. I'm sorry. County executive charter.

[03:34:23] Yes. So what we did last year, if I remember correctly, the board just indicated its comfort with the budget presentation and the fees associated and really gave a straw poll on that.

[03:34:39] So that way we can make sure that we are covered for all of the fees that were listed in the budget presentation. All right. Thank you so very much. Apologize for the insult. I don't know. Again. All right. So I'm just going to quickly do that to make sure we cover all of our bases.

[03:34:54] And next year I'm going to have a long laundry list. I don't feel like I went through it last year, but next year I'll have a long laundry list. I already notified my team. So based on the budget presentation as presented and the fees associated, are you comfortable with advertising?

[03:35:09] that's supervisor bailey yes supervisor we're supervisor bode supervisor angry supervisor vega supervisor franklin supervisor gordy all right i will say yes we good for real for real okay i think all right so now let's start the timer quickly um last week i was talking about the town hall from congressman um supermanium it was a great town hall one of the things that i spoke about was federal resources. And I made sure my team, thank you very much for making

[03:35:49] up a flyer, that we were able to hand out to people using the resources that we have put together, that our communication team has put together. Thank you, Supervisor Angry, for mentioning that. But we handed out that resource page. And one of the things that it made me think about is that there is a strong need for contingency planning. We don't know what's going to happen at the federal level. 12% approximately of our workforce are federal workers and that is a discussion we're going to need to have during budget season okay guys local government day if you have a middle schooler no middle schooler um local government day is an

[03:36:24] event that i'm hosting for kids six through grade six through eight it is on saturday march 15 at three o'clock and board chambers is really to introduce middle school kids because they're starting to kind of think about what do they want to do when they grow up introducing them to public service. Now, I have more fun things to discuss for us to arm wrestle over, and I do have a directive regarding the Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance. You know, I understand the importance to a community, you know, and I do think that this is something that should be shared in a timely manner. However, I think most of us, or hopefully all of us, would agree that we would rather move

[03:37:04] for it with this important ordinance under Virginia Code section 15.2-2304, which would provide greater flexibility for us to accomplish our goals. We all know that until Virginia Code is changed, we do not have the legal authority to proceed with that option. When we last discussed this issue, it was before we knew whether the General Assembly would approve legislation giving us that authority. Because there are so many variables and unknowns, When we last discussed this issue, the board determined to proceed with the draft ordinance pursuant to Virginia Code Section 15.2-2305.1.

[03:37:42] We now know that the General Assembly has passed legislation that would give us the authority to utilize 15.2-2304. We are closer to knowing whether we will gain this legal authority. This is such an important ordinance that I would like to make sure that we get it right and not spend time and effort by this board, the Planning Commission, county staff, and the community on an ordinance that we may end up changing or amending. We should know on April 2nd, when the General Assembly reconvenes for the veto session, whether we will have this authority. April 2nd is not that far off, just three weeks after the proposed Planning Commission public hearing. And I'm doing this

[03:38:21] because we do have a Planning Commission meeting next week, next Wednesday, and they're going to talk about this. And I would rather, honestly, that they hold off. And I have spoken with Delegate Henson about his bill. I appreciate the considerable time and effort that he has put into it. And, you know, we're actually taking a slot. They had 15 bills they could introduce this year.

[03:38:46] We're taking a slot. And I don't want us to go forth with something and necessarily change it with stream. You know, I just want to see where we are with his bill and other similar bills. So therefore, without objection, I would like for the county staff to temporarily pause action regarding zoning text amendment DPA 2022-0003, sorry, the Affordable Dwelling Unit Ordinance, AFDU, including a Planning Commission public hearing and report back to the board on its April 18th meeting regarding the legislation.

[03:39:25] At that time, the board can provide staff with further direction regarding the AFDU. Supervisor Vega. Thank you. For the sake of consistency, I'm going to abstain. We as a board had agreed that prior to issuing directives, we would email them to each other, that they'd be vetted through the county attorney and through the county executive.

[03:39:49] And while I do notice that a notification came in not too long ago about you sending it via email to the board, Again, for the sake of consistency, I don't find it appropriate. If we're going to adhere to our rules, we have to follow them. That's the reason why we established them. And so for those reasons, I'm going to be objecting.

[03:40:07] And I appreciate that. I would like everyone to know that the county attorney and the county executive have reviewed this, but I do appreciate that and I respect that. Supervisor Franklin. Sure, yeah, thank you for that. And I know you share the same support for affordable housing, certainly as I do.

[03:40:26] And obviously, you know, this is new to me as well in terms of the directive and would like to have more discussion around it. And so, you know, obviously I would rather not pause it, but could be open to, you know, deferring it so we can have a more robust discussion.

[03:40:44] But if we move forward with pausing, it's not something that I can support today. But again, would love to have this discussion kind of generally. And so I think this is a great time to do it, honestly, because I just want us to temporarily, you know, again, literally hit the pause button on what it is we're doing, see what the General Assembly does, see what the governor does, and at that time, you know, make a decision.

[03:41:10] Do we switch gears and go to 23 or 4, or do we continue with what we're doing? Again, I just want to make sure, because it is coming, and the reason I'm doing this, and I apologize, it's coming to the Planning Commission next week. and I don't know if I want them to have time or I don't want them to debate this or discuss this until we have further information. So that's where I'm operating coming from.

[03:41:34] Sure, and I would like to just say, you know, and you're aware of this, we've been working on this for years at this point, and I don't think that, I don't think there is a, it's bad to continue to work in tandem on this as we wait to see. I also just kind of have a general belief of not waiting on the General Assembly of the Governor or Congress, for that matter, because you never know what's going to happen.

[03:42:00] And so this is something that we've been working on for a while now. And to pause it, I think that there will be some unfortunate and unintended consequences of that, particularly as it relates to staff having the ability to continue to do the work that they've been doing literally for years now.

[03:42:20] I will also say that while the bill that the governor, that's on the governor's desk provides flexibility, you know, we still have parts of our ordinance that deals with incentives, deals with other things that I think we need to allow staff to continue to work on.

[03:42:39] So, again, I can't support moving forward with pausing it. But, again, we'll love to continue this conversation. All right, Supervisor Bode. Thank you, Madam Chair. And sort of my concern with this actually falls into both of the buckets that were just mentioned by both Suarez of Vega and Suarez of Franklin.

[03:43:00] One, it's a procedural issue. It's in our rules procedure. We're supposed to send it out well ahead of the board meeting so people have time to look at it. Understanding that you didn't have as much time. I see sending directives out, frankly, while we're sitting here at the dais, is an emergent nature.

[03:43:16] And to get from where you're sitting, you know, the fact that the planning commission is going to be talking about it next week is emergent. to me it's not um because to me i know there's a lot of folks that put a lot of work in this and a lot of advocates who've been talking about this for a long time deserve to at least hear it talked about at the planning commission level regardless of what happens uh at the general assembly and the governor level um as was said sort of alluded to in your directive but even before that i know when we talked about it we know the governor has until march 24th to sign the bill i don't think we would need to wait until a veto session because if the General Assembly signed frankly two different versions of the bill that does the same thing, both McPike's bill, which gives it to everyone,

[03:43:56] and Delegate Hintz's bill, which only gives it really to us and maybe one other locality, I don't see them as overriding something that he signs into law. But again, I'll go back to something that Franklin just said. Understanding that, yes, we've all talked about as a body that we eventually want to get 2304 and that we all support 2304 and the flexibility it gives.

[03:44:20] That also, frankly, concerns me because we go from a very narrow and prescriptive line of code to a very broad one, which could then take even longer to craft. And I don't want us to hold up the bus on at least what's been done already, understanding that in the future, yes, we could eventually get to 2304.

[03:44:41] It'll give us, at least to me, going forward with 2305.1 gives us an idea of where the Planning Commission's head is around affordable dwelling unit ordinances to begin with and also gives sort of a framework on a starting place for them to look at 2304 moving ahead.

[03:44:58] So again, just from my perspective on we will know within the next couple weeks on where the governor will sit with that and therefore whether or not we'll be given that access of code. Also, as Sir Franklin said, all the other incentives, the trust fund policy, everything else that we know is currently sort of being done sort of in tandem but also ultimately waiting for us to adopt the ordinance.

[03:45:18] I think that we've all been working with staff for a quite long time to get this to this point, and I don't think we should speak as positive any further. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor, Mayor. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to approach this from a different angle.

[03:45:36] I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a three-week pause so the governor can sign it, because if he signs it, then it's done, and 2304 is an option for us. But I think what also needs to be considered is the amount of time, effort, and political capital that many members of this board, perhaps even a majority of them, spent getting these bills before the General Assembly, both sides of the aisle.

[03:46:02] There were at least three bills to add us to 2304. I think a number of us expended significant capital both at the General Assembly level and even at the executive branch level. And I think that proceeding with 2305.1 prior to the governor having a chance to sign it, whether he signs it or not is somewhat irrelevant, but we should at least give him the time, sends the wrong message to the delegation because the message it sends to the delegation is we've wasted their time.

[03:46:31] We've wasted one of their slots, actually in this case three slots for legislation they could have otherwise carried. We asked them, we begged them to do it, and we'll look pretty foolish in their eyes, And if we ever need anything else from them in coming years or even next year, you know, our credibility is now at stake.

[03:46:50] And you can say it's not true, but it is. I'd bear a grudge if I were one of them, and we wasted all of their time. I mean, it's like, you know, we're already not exactly the favorite county in the General Assembly because of us not showing up for some things.

[03:47:09] But, I mean, I don't see the sense also in doing the ordinance twice. If the governor doesn't sign it and we proceed with 2305.1, great. Then we don't lose any effort. But if we decide to pursue 2304, I don't see the sense in doing 2305.1 and then going back and doing 2304 because you're going to have an intervening period where you're going to entitle people.

[03:47:35] And because of this prescriptive nature of 2305.1, and what we would have to do. I don't think three weeks is too much of an ask. Supervisor Vega? Thank you, Madam Chair.

[03:47:51] I just want to go on the record saying that after reading your directive, I'm not against the spirit of your directive. I understand, and further discussion in terms of what Supervisor Weir has just stated. I don't disagree with it. I do want to say that I was under the impression that we would have to vote to amend the rules of procedure, But because when we gave the request of giving notification, we never established a time frame.

[03:48:16] Therefore, we do not have to. So I don't have an objection to stand on. Therefore, I will retract my objection. I appreciate you. Supervisor Franklin McGordy. Yeah. I just want to keep the focus on housing.

[03:48:32] But I will just want to address some of Supervisor Weir's comments. we won't look like fools for those of us who have been working hand-in-hand with some of these delegates on other issues. They understand the position that Prince William County is in. They support at least some of the ones that you have referred to.

[03:48:53] They support us doing the work that we have to do on a local level. So I don't know what type of relationships you have, but the relationships that most of us have on this board guarantees that we will continue to have a good working relationship with our delegation. So let me just start with saying that.

[03:49:09] I'll also just say that, again, going back to this actual legislation, working in tandem alongside while we wait to see what the governor is going to do. And as a reminder, last year he did not sign. You know, there are a lot of political issues at play that could derail this from the governor signing.

[03:49:30] So there's no need, in my opinion, and I say this all diplomatically and respectfully, There's no need to pause the work while waiting to see what the governor is going to do. Now, to be fair to Supervisor Weir, he's been saying this all along, that we should pause work and wait to see what the General Assembly is going to do.

[03:49:48] Now we see that they've passed this. But, again, they've gotten this far before, and it didn't go forward. So I think we should allow staff to continue doing their work. You know, I've been very vocal in the past about them getting further along than where they are now.

[03:50:04] And so I wouldn't want to put a wrench in that. And it is true. The Planning Commission is holding a public hearing next week. And I think it's important for a public hearing to be held to hear what the public has to say about this very issue and about the potential for the ordinance.

[03:50:23] And so, again, just going back to I wish we could have talked about this a little bit more before now because I would have liked to have gotten to a place where maybe we didn't have to have this discussion. All right, Gordy, Bodie, and Angry. I appreciate the comments about Supervisor Weir and Supervisor Franklin, but I do want to bounce off what you just said.

[03:50:46] We need the governor to sign this bill. And any message we send him that we're moving forward without the bill is the wrong message to send. We need him to understand we need this bill. And if we're going to be putting together a letter and sending it to him to encourage him to sign this bill.

[03:51:07] and I would also offer Ian Lovejoy also put this bill in. There was a lot of partisan politics at play during the General Assembly, and there's some sensitivity to that right now. And so I personally don't want to send the governor, the one who's got this bill on his desk, and can either kill it or sign it or veto it and sign it. I don't want to send him the wrong message. I want him to know that we're serious about this. And I think if we send the message through our own behavior that we're just not going to move forward by ignoring 2304,

[03:51:44] but that we actually do want this and move forward with that necessity, and we're demonstrating that necessity, I think it sends a message to him, we need him to sign this bill. So while there are things I think we absolutely could be talking about, such as the Affordable Housing Trust Fund and what that looks like, how that's, and the rules set around that.

[03:52:11] But I think at the overarching affordable dwelling unit ordinance, I've been reluctant to support moving forward any step on 2305.1 because I've not heard anybody that supports it, whether in the development community, in the affordable housing community, or even on this dais.

[03:52:36] And so a lot of work has been done. A lot of people have said, hey, you need 2304. in all aspects of this discussion. And so I would certainly encourage us to send the strongest possible message to the governor that we need this bill. Thank you.

[03:52:55] Supervisor Angry. Madam Chair, look, instead of us going around on this, I think you've got some opposition to your directive. Do you want to just call for a struggle and get this out of the way? I was going to let Supervisor Bailey have something to say.

[03:53:11] She's the only one who hasn't spoken. And then I know that you're back in the queue, Supervisor Franklin, but, you know, you've had your two bites. You know, if we are not, if I don't have the votes, it's not worth taking the vote. But Supervisor Bailey, you haven't spoken after that, then I will make a decision.

[03:53:31] Thank you, Madam Chair, for your courtesy. One thing to my colleague's suggestion about letting the governor know that we're serious about this, I think, and to my colleague saying that, you know, how people perceive us on this board, I think the governor knows that we're a very serious board and we're intentional about everything that we do on this board.

[03:53:56] Whether we agree or not, we come with intentionality. That's the first thing. And we can send a collective letter with our signatures on it asking the governor to please pass this bill. It's the appropriate and professional thing to do. That's how we usually do business from this board.

[03:54:12] In the past, I'd like to continue that trend. The other thing is, when we talk about how important affordable housing is, we need to stop dancing with it. People want to live here, and they want to live in an affordable way. And the more we dance with it, the more time we're taking and not making sure that it moves forward.

[03:54:34] And so I certainly embrace and respect, Madam Chair, your intent. And I think that your intent in terms of the time frame, April 2, doesn't harm us at all. I mean, we've been doing extremely well with the passing and the supporting of the CRC, and we're in limbo now waiting for a waiver to make sure that this comes to fruition.

[03:54:58] It's the same thing in being in limbo waiting for 2304. And so though I respect the time frame and what we're trying to achieve here, I think we do no harm by doing things simultaneously, chewing gum and walking together at the same time.

[03:55:16] And I think in walking with the governor, what we can still achieve is by sending him a professional letter asking him to support us because of the level of respect that he does have for this county. So that's all I have to say, Madam Chair. Thank you. I know that you're in the queue, Supervisor Franklin, but you've had your, you know, with that, it sounds like this would be a forfar, so I'm just going to leave it alone.

[03:55:38] But I do appreciate the dialogue that we've had around this. And with that, I am done. We are done for now. Our next meeting is at 7 o'clock, where we're going to have lots of fun. I will see everyone then.

[03:55:55] Thank you so very much. As you can see, we also have a large number of speakers signed up. So we know that this is going to be a lengthy meeting. I ask that everyone have patience this evening.

[03:56:11] We look forward to hearing everyone who has come out to share your valuable input with the board. We know that you feel passionately about this application and that you're personally impacted and invested, whether in support or in opposition. But we also ask that you please focus on the application itself and the reasons why you either support or oppose it.

[03:56:34] We also ask that you please be respectful of others and their viewpoint. I would like to remind everyone that there will be no outbursts during the meeting, including in support or in opposition of what the speaker has said. I would also like to remind speakers that this is your opportunity to share information with the board.

[03:56:52] It is not an opportunity to ask speakers of the board, the county staff, or the applicant or other representatives. I know that many of you are familiar with our land use public hearings, so let me explain how it works.

[03:57:09] In a few minutes, I will ask the county staff for its presentation. After the county staff has completed its presentation, I will ask the applicant and their representatives to present. I'm actually going to flip that. I'm going to ask the applicant and then the county staff.

[03:57:26] So the applicant will come up, and then the county staff will come up. During these presentations, the board members may ask questions of the county staff and the applicant and their representatives. After the presentations are complete, I will open the public hearing. We will hear everyone who has signed up to speak, but you must remain here.

[03:57:45] When your number is called, your number is called. And this is your opportunity to share input about your input to the board. You are allowed three minutes per person, or up to five minutes if you are speaking on behalf of an organization, as defined by the rules, the board's rules of procedure.

[03:58:03] And that means only one person from an organization can speak. We cannot have multiple persons for saying that the representatives of an organization speak for five minutes. you will see up there you will speak in the back up there you will see a timer on the screen we also have a timer over here where we are tracking your time after all of the in-person and virtual speakers I will close the public hearing and then the board will discuss the matter I appreciate your patience and your cooperation we're gonna this is going to be a long night you know again

[03:58:37] I ask that everyone be respectful of different views and that we will not have any outbursts So with that, I don't know if the applicant is ready.

[03:58:58] Good evening, Madam Chair, Mr. Vice Chair, members of the board.

[03:59:29] Thank you so much for having us come in this evening to present on the Transformation Temple International Church. This is a long time coming. The application was filed back in 2019. So for many years, I've been working on the application and listening to staff's comments and the county's comments and citizens' comments as well to try to understand exactly what the issues are to address them as best as we possibly can.

[03:59:51] My name is Olan Simmons. I'm with Vanderpool, Frost, and Janine. I'm a language attorney. I'm joined today by Pastor Arthur, who's the head of the church. I'm also joined by several key professionals who've been working on this development with me for many, many years. I have Ron Schools from Schools in Townsend, our civil engineer.

[04:00:07] Vern Torney from Vector Company, our traffic engineer. Wayne Savage from Soils Inc., our septic engineer. And Ian Bomer from Soil Consultants Engineering, who's an environmental compliance professional. I'm also joined today by the Congregation of Transformation Temple International Church, who've been working and praying very diligently about this project and about their church.

[04:00:23] and they're looking forward to having a chance to tell you exactly why they love this church and why this is the right fit for our community. On behalf of the pastor and the church, I'm asking you to approve the special use permit that's before you today.

[04:00:44] Transformation Temple International Church is a Christian church in the Pentecostal tradition led by the Spirit of God and a belief in Jesus Christ. And I'm pointing that out because there have been some misstatements about the church's mission and about their religious standpoint, so I want to make that clear in terms of what they're doing in the church.

[04:01:01] The church was founded in Fairfax County in 2003. For 22 years, the church has been focused on providing quality church-based services to people in need. That means anyone in need, not just those who are members or attendees of the church, but anyone in the community who needs help. Over the years, the pastor noticed that most of the congregation lives in Prince William County.

[04:01:19] So in 2019, the church bought the property on Davis-Ford Road, and they've been looking for a place to worship there since then. The church currently has 120 members. The church has skilled professionals as part of the congregation, including physicians, lawyers, CPAs, nurses, federal workers, veterans, IT professionals, entrepreneurs, and so forth.

[04:01:40] The church services will be held Sundays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, with the majority of people visiting the site on Sundays. On Wednesdays, the church expects 15 to 20 people to attend by Zoom, and on Fridays, they expect 25 people to attend at that point in time. The church has agreed to – sorry, next one.

[04:01:59] The property is located in the A1 zoning district, and the property is about 4.3 acres. When the application was filed back in 2019, the long-range use was SRR, semi-rural residential, and it's been changed to ORPA in 2022. The site is about a mile and a half away from Prince William Parkway.

[04:02:18] This is a bird's-eye view of the property that shows the residential uses on all sides of the site. It's important to know that the churches nestled within residential communities are not unusual, especially in northern Virginia. This is St. Louis Nanceyton in the Smoketown community in Woodbridge.

[04:02:36] It has a special use permit for the church. It's also located in the A1 district, just like we are. There's the Church of Latter-day Saints off of Hoadley Road. It's in the A1 district as well. And there's also Park Valley Church. Interesting about Park Valley Church, you can see that there's some water bodies on the property.

[04:02:56] But the applicant was careful enough to work with the county to address the issues that were involved. And they're allowed to have a church on that site in spite of the water bodies. And that's also in the A1 district as well. In terms of existing non-residential uses, there's a church already on Davis Ford Road, along with the fire station and the police station as well.

[04:03:19] And so there's been some development on Davis Ford Road. So we will not be the only non-residential uses on that road. In terms of the elevations, if you're traveling west on Davis Ford Road, this is what you would see. And then if you're traveling east, this is what you would see.

[04:03:37] And what we try to do is we try to work with the county and the community to make sure we had a product and a look of the building that was complimentary of the area. This began as a building that was all white in color. We've made several adjustments to it to make it really blend in with the community a lot better.

[04:03:57] In terms of the site layout, this is our first submission. We had initially two buildings on the site. One was attached to the other. There was a church and then there was a fellowship hall gymnasium attached to that. It was over 28,000 square feet. The community did not like that idea. They were upset by the number of buildings on the site and by the size of the building itself.

[04:04:16] So we went and we did some reductions and scaled it back. We took out the fellowship hall, and we now just have the one church building on the site. It's about 18,000 square feet. There's a basement and a first floor in that building.

[04:04:35] In terms of the requirements, we are meeting the minimum lot size requirement. The maximum allowable lot coverage is 85%. Our lot coverage is 26.5%, so we're under that maximum lot coverage. the allowable height is 60 feet we are doing 35 feet so we're a lot shorter than what's allowed we have 104 parking spaces on the site the maximum allowable height for a sign is 10 feet but our sign is six feet and we do have our 30 foot buffers as well the floor plans here showed you what you would essentially find without a church building nothing's unusual on side it's a lobby

[04:05:15] restroom sanctuary sunday school classroom a kitchen for warming food only a fellowship space office spaces. This is our transportation plan. This is, as a result, several iterations of the plan that was worked on very carefully by Vern Torney and Ron School's engineer. It took us a while to get to this particular plan, but we have done a lot to put in right-turn lanes and left-turn lanes, left-turn lane taper and stack, right-turn lane taper, and this was reviewed by the county

[04:05:52] and the Virginia Department of Transportation. They've determined this plan to be acceptable and uh and so there's a lot of good work this is the auto turn analysis that we provided because there was some concern about emergency vehicles turning onto the site to be able to get on and off the site safely so we provided this slide as well there's some concern about um the curve on davis forward road people were concerned you wouldn't be able to see the church from that curve up there in this area so we had this schematic prepared to show you how much sight

[04:06:28] line there is from this bend here to the church, there's 1,000 feet that you can see very clearly before you make that turn. So there's no blind curve on Davis Road Road. There's a lot of room to be able to see. And then you can have officers parking here safely on the site to make sure people get on and off the site safely. We also have a condition to make sure that if there's any traffic issues that we have a shuttle service for overflow parking on the site. We have officers as well to help direct traffic as well. The counties looked at this and determined there's no weaknesses in

[04:07:08] terms of the transportation plan. We have existing tree buffers here. These are all tree-saved areas here on every side of the site. This is 40,000 square foot of tree-saved area. We also have landscaping at the entrance to the site. We have evergreen trees, deciduous trees, and shrubs.

[04:07:30] And then we have interior lot landscaping as well throughout the site in these areas. Here, here, here, here, here, and here. And these are revegetated areas where we'll be planting trees and whatnot. And we're exceeding the requirements for interior park lot landscaping, and we're the requirements for a tree canopy as well. In terms of signage and fencing, we have a six-foot sign, as I mentioned, with landscaping around it. The sign is externally lit, and this is the fence

[04:08:06] that will be put up to make sure our light doesn't bleed onto the neighboring property owner when we pull into the driveway area. In terms of stormwater management, this is our stormwater management system. This will be underground. Initially, the pond was back here in this area. The citizens doesn't like that very much. We moved it to an underground chamber area, and we have a schematic showing you what the proposal will be like. There's a 24-inch outfall pipe. There's a 16-inch pipe into the stormwater chamber. There's 42-inch stormwater chambers under the ground.

[04:08:44] So this is a preliminary sketch. This has been reviewed by soils engineer, and he has determined that it looks good and that it's going to work just fine. And this is a letter from the soils engineer who's looked at our plans and says it's going to meet the requirements of the county, DEQ, and EPA. And then we have a proffer to make sure that we are complying with BNPs, stormwater management BNPs, practices for treating stormwater quantity and quality during the site plan review process. And we're following all the laws. And this is a very similar proffer that was

[04:09:22] just adopted recently in 2024 where the applicant is going to be complying with the rules and taking care of things at the site plan phase, and this is another very similar one as well. In terms of water and sewer, we're connecting to the public water. Unfortunately, the sewer system is too far away, so we can't connect to that, but we do have approval from the Department of Health. The average daily flow for our type of product is 455 gallons. Our capacity can hold 651 gallons, so we are well above the average daily flow. And then we received the Department

[04:09:59] of Health approval for our system and they have said here that we're going to be compliant with the Virginia Code. We have four tanks on the site. We have a 5,000 gallon pump tank. We have three 1,500 gallon tanks as well. So it's 8,000 gallons that we're able to hold and we have a reserve area and a drain field area here and this has all been reviewed and approved by the Department of Health.

[04:10:28] We also have a proffer to put in low flow fixtures and restrooms and bathrooms and kitchen area we have a potluck style kitchen bring your own food no food preparation on the site we have a microwave and oven just for reheating purposes in terms of environmental we had a couple of studies with two phase one studies done which showed there was no environmental concerns on the site and then we had this study done as a project review where they looked at it and said

[04:11:03] there's no environmental concerns either on the site and there's an environmental resource area on the site but Julie Flanagan when she was here addressed it there's no RPA on the site but it's environmental resource, so I wanted to show you what she mentioned about that.

[04:12:08] steep slope road and then the dark shaded areas are what it's considered key on and those are only areas involving steep slopes with highly road disorders the reason that that was not a big issue for us in the environmental position is that um comprehensive where it talks about taking care of steep slopes with highly road disorders is it associated with a perennial stream or an intermittent stream and there were no perennial streams or intermittent streams on site and so There's not a plan of policy that points to that and says you must protect those.

[04:12:47] Is that helpful? It is helpful. Thank you. So because there's no perennial streams or intermittent streams, we're in good shape in terms of the environmental resources on the site. And lastly, I just want to show you that we're at sites very far from the Aquaman Reservoir.

[04:13:05] We're here. We're about two and a half miles away from the reservoir, which is up here in this area. And I understand that our site drains here first and then kind of goes up through all these other properties. So it's been said that we're going to be almost adjacent to the Alcorn Reservoir.

[04:13:21] We're nowhere close to it. We're very far away from it. So I'm going to stop there, and I'll take any questions that you have at the proper time, but I thank you for listening. I appreciate your attention. All right, thank you so much. Does anyone please jump in queue if any of the board members have questions?

[04:13:38] If not, all right. I've received many questions from constituents, and I would like to go through some of them. First of all, I want to talk about growth. You know, to clarify, will this church be in addition to the places of worship for Transformation Temple, or will it replace the spring for a location?

[04:14:00] I'm sorry, hold on. I'm asking questions from the applicant first. No, there's no growth. So at this point, we have 208 seats in the building. If the church does grow, the church's philosophy is to plant churches elsewhere. The church has planted churches in Fredericksburg and in Stafford County.

[04:14:20] So they're not looking to grow on this particular site. In other words, the idea is not to create a megachurch on this site. This is a small, local community church. They see it that way. The proffers only allow for 208 seats.

[04:14:36] So there's no desire to grow outside of that. There's no desire to add any additional buildings. And the proffers really capture what we can and can't do on the site from a development perspective. All right. Supervisor Rear.

[04:14:52] Thank you, Madam Chair. Oh, in what, 24 hours since I was playing? Yeah, yeah. Let's stick with that for a moment. So you've actually proffered a maximum of 208 seats in the Congregation Hall? I'm calling them proffers. They're the conditions, but you know what I mean.

[04:15:08] But, I mean, I had the same argument last night. Same misstatement. I'm a little concerned. I mean, at 104 parking spaces plus shuttle service, it sounds like you may go over 208. I don't know that we can enforce that. I'll tell you that we were going to put fewer parking spaces on the site.

[04:15:28] There was concern that we wouldn't have enough. So we did 104 to make sure we had enough. The shuttle service is just for the purpose of if there's an event that has a lot of parking and there's not enough spaces, we don't want people parking on Davis Road Road. That was to cure that issue.

[04:15:45] So that was a request from the citizens, from the residents. We thought it was a good idea because we want to make them feel secure We want to make sure the congregants are getting on off the site safely. So the shuttle service is just in case and only if necessary so that we can park at a school nearby and then shuttle people onto the site.

[04:16:06] One other thing, with respect to the road improvements, I know there's some areas. Are there going to be any takings or condemnations required to accommodate the third-party parcels to accommodate the transportation improvements? Well, we had to do a vacation, an abandonment of the roadway, a part of it.

[04:16:25] at the front part of the site because we didn't own that. It was VDOT. So that was abandoned, I think, back in 2020. We went through the whole process. And then after that was done, the church had to purchase it.

[04:16:41] So abandoned, then purchased. And so now we've got what we need in terms of parking and buildability. But there won't be any condemnation required on adjacent parcels? No. I should say also, the transportation issues and all the transportation designs that we're doing are being paid for by the church and no one else.

[04:17:02] I get that. That's been a concern for folks. My issue has always been it doesn't require a condemnation of somebody else's property. No, we're not doing any takes. You know where I'm at on that. No takes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[04:17:18] On this slide, too, where the services, that was one question that I had. I know Sunday service and Wednesday is probably Bible study. The Friday service, is that activities or just give me some understanding of what that might be?

[04:17:36] I think it's a Bible study. I'm going to have the pastor speak to that specifically. Okay. It's a very small group, though, as you can see, 25 people coming to the site. And then on Wednesdays from 7 to 8, that's actually a Zoom call where they have people just Zoom in. So they're almost coming to the site on Wednesdays.

[04:17:53] Okay. They'll be coming on Sundays and then on Fridays. And my reasoning for asking that is because of the travel and the traffic. And I noticed on one slide you had added a lane for going into the church.

[04:18:11] Yes, ma'am. Is that what I saw? Yeah. Let me scroll down a bit. So this was, I got to tell you, it didn't look this way when we started. It looked nothing like this. The reason why this was important is because we had to put a left turn lane in so we could get to the site safely because of how the road is shaped and how it's built.

[04:18:29] So, this is as a result of some really clever engineering and careful thought process with the county, with VDOT, and with our folks to make sure this works. And so, that's why you see the left turn lane here, right here, and then the stack lanes.

[04:18:46] So, you can stack about six or seven cars here as they're waiting to turn into the site. And then, you've got the right turn lanes also, and with the taper as well. So, these are all transportation conditions that we needed to do to make sure people got to the site safely.

[04:19:02] And I'll leave from the site safely. There's also a left-turn lane and a right-turn lane out of the site. So this is a left-turn lane here and a right-turn lane out of the site here. Okay. And then my last question, if I may, Madam Chair, is the presentation of the building and the height of the building.

[04:19:19] I don't think that was the original, the presentation of the building. Is that the original? Go back to that one there? No. Oh. Go forward. Oh, the look of the building?

[04:19:36] Yes. Oh, yes, ma'am. Yeah. The look of the building. Yes. Oh, this, yes. Right in there. That's correct. That's not what I saw originally. That was not the original design. It was all white. It stuck out. That's what I thought. Like a sore thumb in the community.

[04:19:53] The pastor was very thoughtful. He said, we don't want to do anything that's going to be disruptive. We want to blend in. We want to do something that makes sense, given the color of the buildings that are around us. There's a lot of brick in that neighborhood. There's a lot of natural colors. So they began to go back and reconfigure.

[04:20:09] They came up with a better looking, I think, product for where we are. So it went from this stark white structure to this structure that really looks nice. And if you look at it from Davis-Fort Road, it's a very nice-looking, high-quality structure. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[04:20:26] Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good evening, Noah. It's good to see you. Good evening. You too. In terms of your service on Sundays, is the church only planning for one service, or are there potential to go to multiple services on Sunday?

[04:20:45] At this point, I think the church is planning for just one service. Okay, but is there a potential that it could go to multiple services on Sundays? I don't think so. I've talked to the septic tank engineer, though. What he tells me is that if we did two services, that the tank could handle that kind of work going into it.

[04:21:05] Because you have people come to the site on Sundays. After that, no one's there. There's a small crowd on Fridays, but other than that, there's not a lot of activity. And I've shared with you, the church that I attended went to multiple services and outgrew their septic, and it created significant problems.

[04:21:24] So as you can understand, it was a problem for the church, mostly because they couldn't connect the sewer, so they had no choice but to move. And I would hate for this church to commit to a site that cannot sustain their growth just simply because I'd hate the church to lose its growth because of a septic tank.

[04:21:42] Been there, done that. So and then but I'm also, you know, in terms of transportation, if you've got one group leaving, one group coming in, that makes also for a significant challenge. So just trying to understand what the game plan is and and whether or not we fully mitigated for those potential for that potential growth in within the proffers and within the plans.

[04:22:07] I've got the guy here can answer all those questions in terms of septic. And he can come in now, he can come in later, whatever you prefer. But he's assured me that with the two services, the system can handle that. Okay. We can wait on that until later. Actually, I want to bring that person up because I also have questions, and I think a lot of us have questions.

[04:22:25] So if you can have your sex expert come forward. Sure. And I'm going to ask people in the audience, if you take a seat, if you could please keep it. I know there's a lot of movement in and out of the chambers.

[04:22:42] I'm also looking around. I just want to also let you know we cannot have standing in the chambers. So please no standing in the chambers. And I ask if you have a seat in the chambers, please realize there are a lot of people outside who would like to sit in it, but they're not in here. So be mindful of your in and out movement.

[04:22:59] All right. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for having me. Wayne Savage of Souls, Inc. So, yeah, the system is designed, you know, when you design churches and you design septic systems, it's based on the number of seats in the church. In this case, as, you know, Olawan discussed, it's 208 seats, and that's what we based our design on.

[04:23:20] Each seat is based on five gallons a day per seat, not necessarily per person, right? So it's a per seat use. How that works is, and I, this is just a, for instance, and for example, if every seat is filled up at one service, right, 208 people, all those people come into church, they all leave.

[04:23:42] Let's just assume conservative purposes, 50% of them go to the bathroom, right? I think we can all agree that not everyone goes to the bathroom when they're at the church, right? Most of them come in, they go to the service, and they leave. So let's just say 50% of them go in there, they use the restroom, they wash their hands. Low flow fixtures these days, you're talking about maybe a gallon, two max per user, okay?

[04:24:05] So of 100 people are using the restroom, they're using maybe 200 gallons for that service. Next service comes in, same thing, another 200 gallons. So now we're up to 400 gallons. So multiple things here. Number one, the entire system is designed for a max daily flow of 651 gallons a day with an average daily of 450.

[04:24:26] So we haven't even reached that average daily on two services on Sunday, and Sunday is our biggest day of flow. We've designed the system. The drain field is sized to handle 651 gallons a day. septic tanks themselves we have a 5 000 gallon tank being installed for flow equalization so what that does is we can basically store it's about so you don't get the whole 5 000 gallons because there's a pump in that there's some storage in the bottom you get about 4 000 gallons roughly of storage inside of that tank so it would take i don't know the math or i'll talk to have 10

[04:25:02] services of that many people to come in and use the system for that system to start having a problem in overflowing. And the purpose of the flow equalization tank, it is to equally disperse the flow throughout the week, since we don't have a lot of use Monday, Tuesday, a little bit of flow Wednesday, no flow Thursday, a little bit more on Friday and not much Saturday. So you have the opportunity for the system to play catch up, if you will, throughout the week. All right. Supervisor Bodie. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good evening, everyone. Thank you, Olan, for your presentation.

[04:25:40] Thank you, Mr. Savage, for being here. On that note, you kind of started to answer one of my first questions. When you talk about that average capacity, you're talking about essentially designing such that it's designing to carry that load on Sundays and the highest days and sort of just equally flow out throughout the rest of the week.

[04:25:58] It's my understanding, though, based on how this church currently operates, that they have a couple month-long events, frankly, throughout the year. So, for example, their fresh start, January 6th through 26th, they have evening service every night of the week.

[04:26:19] Spiritual emphasis, July, the entire month of July, July 1st through 30th, last year, same thing. How does that fit into those calculations? Yeah, so we planned for events to be held periodically. We did not necessarily plan for every January or every July because it's kind of impossible to do that because they're not happening all throughout the year.

[04:26:43] So we kind of take an average, if you will, to come up with the best design so that we can be conservative as possible to handle events that they might be having at the church. I don't have the exact numbers. I would assume those events are going to be small.

[04:27:00] They're not going to be as large as your Sunday service, right? They're probably going to have 20, maybe 30 people there. And they're probably going to be there for an hour or two at a time. So, again, same kind of thing. Those people are going to come in. They might use the restroom once. Let's just say all of them do. There's 30 people there. You're talking about 60 gallons of flow.

[04:27:16] Very small number in terms of the overall daily flow numbers that we have. And, again, because of that low flow on that day, the service from Sunday, which, again, we've overcompensated for even Sunday service. Not only do we have that 5,000-gallon tank, we've got a 1,500-gallon septic tank in front of it.

[04:27:36] Then it goes into that 5,000-gallon tank. That 5,000-gallon tank then feeds a MicroFast, which is a treatment unit. That's an integrated tank that has septic and treatment with it. That has a total capacity of, I think it's 1,500 gallons. Then it goes into a pump tank.

[04:27:55] I think our pump tank, and I'm speaking from memory. I don't have the plans in front of me, but I think it was another 1,500 gallons. In total tankage, we've got 10,000 gallons worth of tankage on site. So there's a lot of capacity built into this thing so that in the event they do have those specialized events, we can accommodate those flows.

[04:28:15] Sure. And my last question for now, Madam Chair, that sounds like it's a pretty complex system to maintain. Not at all. Really? No. So Sorrels Inc., we also have our sister company, Virginia Septic. So whether we maintain it or somebody else maintains it, it's actually pretty simple.

[04:28:33] It's actually an annual visit every year. And really the only things you're checking, you're checking the pumps, make sure they're functioning properly. The floats in there are functioning properly. The treatment system is doing what it's supposed to be doing. It has a blower unit. That blower unit has to be serviced every year. Typically every three to five years, the fan inside that has to be replaced.

[04:28:52] But generally speaking, it's a pretty simple thing. I mean, homeowners across, many homeowners in Prince William County and all the counties across the state have alternative systems. Similar to this one, this one has a lot more tanks to it. But other than that, it's pretty much all the same thing.

[04:29:08] And if a tank goes bad, you know, a tank gets a crack in it, leaks, what have you, you just either come in and you can repair the tank or you replace the tank. And then the drain field is there, and the drain field gets checked regularly every year as well. So everything is checked on an annual basis. It's required by the state. The state of Virginia, Prince William County requires that this alternative system be inspected and maintained on a yearly basis.

[04:29:30] A report has to be submitted, so on and so forth. The last one, Madam Chair. And looking at the topography, I appreciate that you popped up over here and Ninja brought up the slide. Looking at the topography and sort of where this is going to flow, knowing that there are residences adjacent to this parcel to basically the south and the west and knowing that there's wells there, how did you factor that into sort of how you designed the system?

[04:29:58] So there's required setbacks to all wells. It's, you know, 100 feet is the minimum, I guess is the maximum setback. um we're no we're not even 100 feet to a property line um so these wells are they meet code they meet state code and as far as setbacks go for wells um and that's that's all that's all that's looked at uh when it comes to septic thank you madam chair supervisor vega thank you madam chair um a lot of the questions that i had have have already been answered by my colleagues but let's just play devil's advocate here no pun intended um what if we have a scenario um where where it does overflow supervisor bode kind of mentioned it a little bit but you know you just referenced

[04:30:37] that it's not uncommon to have this type of system in place but hypothetical what if it does what what is the process to correcting an overflow situation so there's an alarm that goes off it's it's mounted with an audio visual alarm so you're going to hear a sound and you're going to see it so two things um these systems actually can be set up um and that might be a suggestion especially because it's a church when we get into the you know into actually getting this thing installed is we can set them up with Wi-Fi capability so that they can ring the service provider immediately.

[04:31:08] So when there is that problem, they can be notified immediately of that high-water situation. Now, that said, when it goes into high-water alarm, you've got some time. There's storage, there's a minimum of a quarter, and again, I don't have that even here, even on these plans that Oluon has, you can't ninja you again.

[04:31:27] there is at minimum quarter-day storage built into these tanks above that high water alarm flow. So when that high water alarm becomes activated, there is storage above that, which basically gives time for the provider to come out there, figure out what's going on. If we need to get it pumped, get it pumped, and then repair the situation that's in place.

[04:31:47] Thank you for that. And then in terms of cost, is this a more costly approach to trying to mitigate some of the concerns that have been raised by the community, or is it a cheaper cost? Cost was not really, I don't want to say it wasn't thought about, but cost really doesn't go into this.

[04:32:03] What goes into this is what's required by regulation. You know, they have a proposed use. They told us what that proposed use is. We asked them lots of questions in the design phase before we got this designed and permitted. And then from there, it's based on soils on site.

[04:32:19] It's based on use and flow and all of those factors go into it. And to some degree, the cost is really left out of the equation. It's really based on what's required. you for that and and this might be a question um for staff and and and if so i can wait um for them to answer but i know that a lot of the concerns that have been raised by the community stem from the current amount of services that they're having in the springfield location it's my understanding that there's been a condition that has been accreted upon by the church in terms of the number of services allowed for sundays yes i'll defer to staff on that one i think that's an olon question which i think he kind of addressed olon if you want to come back to the

[04:32:56] Thank you so much for that question. Yes, I spoke to the pastor about this particular issue. At this time, the church is prepared to conduct two services and to do a one-hour delay between services as to prevent any overflow in the traffic issues.

[04:33:23] That's all I have for now, Madam Chair. Thank you. I'll tell you, that's not currently in our proposed conditions. We're willing to put that in as we go forward. All right, so I appreciate all the questions. You answered a lot of questions, so I was going to let people go and come back.

[04:33:41] This is a question. How far is the drain field from another residence? Do you know how far it is between the nearest residence? Hold on. You can actually have a seat in the reserved if you want. I mean, you can get your steps in. I'm not going to stop you, but you can sit there.

[04:33:59] I do not have an exact measurement on that, several hundred feet at least, but I don't have a measurement on that per se. All right. I just want to ask about the alarm because you said you'll hear it and you can see it, and it gives time, you know, there's still space built in, it gives time to the provider.

[04:34:17] You mean the service provider, whoever they have a contract with to service this? Correct, yeah. So they're required to have an annual maintenance, it's an O&M maintenance agreement with a service provider. Again, whether that be our company or somebody else. So, yes, they would call them. Typically, whoever installs the system, they actually put a sticker right on the control panel, got their phone number, their contact information.

[04:34:37] Most of the time, that person, that's who they would contact. They'd walk out, they'd see the alarm. It has a silence button on the side. Typically, we'll go over, you know, either me as the designer or the installer will go over that system. Typically, with the pastor or the owner of the system, let them know a little bit about the system so they can understand how to function when things like that do happen.

[04:34:57] And typically, like I said, there's a silencer on the side. They'll hit that button just to kill the noise. I'm sure residents won't appreciate the noise. None of them do. When even a residence goes off, it's quite annoying. That's the purpose. And then they would call that person. I mean, you've kind of answered this, but I just, you know, what is the likelihood?

[04:35:16] How often do failures happen? I mean, there are conventional drain fields, which other than the treatment side of things, the reason for the treatment is because of limited space and because of the use that's being proposed, right? So that's the reason for all the treatment.

[04:35:31] Other than that, the drain field, the actual drain field itself is a traditional conventional drain field, which is kind of what is the best case scenario for drain field systems. There are drain fields in the ground that are 70 years old right now. So if they're well taken care of, if they're pumped frequently, this one has to be maintained properly.

[04:35:52] I mean, they can last 70 plus years or more. All right. Thank you for that. Supervisor Bailey? Thank you, Madam Chair. So I have two questions.

[04:36:08] One is the environmental, going back to the environmental piece. There were some wetlands, if I'm not mistaken, in the area that we looked at. How was that? How are we preserving that? I'll go back.

[04:36:33] So there are no wetlands at all on this site. Okay. There's no perennial streams. I couldn't remember. There's no intermittent streams. There's nothing there in terms of water on the site. What I talked about was the environmental resource area, which is not an RPA. It's an environmental resource area.

[04:36:49] The reason it's designated that way is because it has erodible soils on it. But Julia Flanagan said the only time that becomes a concern is when you have these types of soils in conjunction with the streams. Okay. We don't have that here, so. Okay, and that was the reason why I was asking that because that oftentimes is a concern when we're looking at different projects.

[04:37:09] And then the other thing that I wanted to ask was in your strategic plan, and this may be down the road, Has there been consideration for during services or if they're having programs to work with our local police departments in terms of the traffic flow?

[04:37:30] Yes. We actually put a condition in to have officers come out to help us with traffic flow. And we have designated an area for them as well to park their vehicles. Sorry.

[04:37:51] So this is the area where they would park here and then direct people onto and off of the site safely. And then we have a condition also to use officers to help us direct traffic as well.

[04:38:09] Of course, that's at the cost of the church. But I just wanted to make sure I couldn't remember if that was in the strategic plan as well. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. All right, Supervisor Vega. And along those lines, Olan, can you talk to me a little bit about the traffic concerns that have been raised by the community in terms of stacking, what the church has done in order to try to mitigate some of those concerns raised by the community?

[04:38:32] Yes. I'm going to bring in my traffic engineer, Vern Torney from Vetra. He's in the hallway. Come on down. The price is right. Good evening, Chair, members of the board. I'm Vern Torney, Vetra Company, Traffic.

[04:38:59] And the question was again? I was asking about stacking and what measures has the church taken to try to address some of these concerns? Well, first of all, even I did turn lane warrant analysis for both right and left turn lanes, and dedicated lanes were not warranted technically for either one.

[04:39:17] But as a safety measure, we've gone ahead and provided both a dedicated left turn lane as well as a right turn lane as well with a taper. So we've gone above and beyond what is technically required. And then talk to me a little bit about this S-shape road, I guess we can call it a road diet inside of the church lot and what that's going to do to try to alleviate some of the concerns of potential stacking on the main road.

[04:39:46] Well, on inbound traffic, of course, it provides extra storage for traffic coming into the site. Traffic can easily get off of Davis Ford Road via the two turn lanes that we're providing. And then once they get on the site, they have all sorts of room. Approximately 16 vehicles could be stacked on that roadway, plus available space in the parking area as well.

[04:40:08] On the outbound traffic, again, it provides stacking capability and storage for traffic coming out of the site. That way they can line up on that road, and then they can turn left or right on the Davis Ford Road as it's safe or as directed by the police officer at the intersection.

[04:40:23] So, to be clear, 16 vehicles inside of the church, not on Davis Ford. Exactly, yeah. And then walk us through a little bit about what that would look like. I know that my colleagues on the dais and people here and at home watching, We know what it's like to see whether the sheriff's office or the police department monitoring, you know, church traffic.

[04:40:45] I understand that there is some type of agreement in place that if there is a need, somebody from either agency will be hired to conduct traffic monitoring. Yeah, well, basically what they would do is they would allow traffic to enter the site as well as exit the site as safe conditions allow.

[04:41:03] The police officer is there to stop the through traffic on Davis Ford Road if he needs to, Or is there just to allow people or direct people to enter Davis Ford Road during the quite numerous gaps that would be available on a Sunday morning?

[04:41:19] Thank you. That's all I have for now, Madam Chair. All right. Supervisor Weir, then Bodie, then Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. Don't run so fast. Come back. Hold on. Hold on. You might be able to answer this.

[04:41:37] Given some recent changes at VDOT, How long ago did VDOT issue the approval for this particular plan, this SUP? When was your last set of comments from them? It's been a while.

[04:41:53] Define a while. Let me check with Ron Schools. He's in the hallway. Let me check with him. I'm not sure. Call your next witness. Good evening. I'm Ron School, civil engineer.

[04:42:22] The question is, how long has it been since VDOT has reviewed these and issued their last round of comments? Well, they took a look at airplanes probably in 2022, and then we sent them a traffic report in 2023 that they also reviewed.

[04:42:42] So your comments are from 2023? Yes. Under the previous engineer at the residency? Well, the reviews are done in Fairfax, not the... Oh, believe me, I am very well aware of where they're done. Okay. I'm going to have some concerns we'll address later.

[04:43:01] Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Boating. Appreciate it, Madam Chair. Traffic, gentlemen, don't walk too far away. So you said 16 cars within the site. How many stacked on the actual turn lane to turn left into the site?

[04:43:21] The capacity on the left turn lane is six or seven vehicles comfortably stacked on that left turn lane. The right turn lane really doesn't need much stacking because it's pretty much a free-flow situation. Traffic doesn't need to stack there. They just come into the site.

[04:43:38] and then the actual S-turn is wide enough to accommodate vehicles coming in and out at the same time? How wide is that? I can't read the... Ron? 24 feet. 24 feet. Okay. Two final questions for now.

[04:43:58] In talking with the fire department, the fire marshal, did you talk to them about entry of emergency vehicles onto the site and how I saw the exhibit that Olan showed earlier of coming in, But once they get in, was there any analysis of actually on the site, in the parking lot, an emergency vehicle maneuvering around the actual parking lot?

[04:44:23] We have our design, the way that we have the two lanes, one where they would go down, go around 36 feet of parking, and then come out the other side. So there's adequate means to turn there.

[04:44:42] Even when there's cars in the parking spaces? Yes. Yeah, because the travel waves are 22 feet wide, and then they use that 36 feet of the parking spaces to actually maneuver through. And last question on the traffic piece for now.

[04:45:01] Again, this is assuming the peak of this use is Sunday mornings, right? Again, I go back to these month-long services they advertised at their previous, at their other location, they would have throughout the month of January, throughout July.

[04:45:18] I understand they may not do that every year, but when these services start at 7, still knowing there are people still coming home through Clifton, through Fairfax, on weeknight after, weeknight around that time, did your analysis look at that at all?

[04:45:35] We did not specifically look at the Friday evening analysis, but I can go beyond that and tell you that on a Sunday morning, the peak hour of traffic is, according to national standards, the ITE trip generation manual. For this size church, it would be 114 vehicles coming into the site during the peak hour on a Sunday morning.

[04:45:57] Now, that equates to one vehicle every 32 seconds coming into the site. And if you go beyond that and take a peak of the peak, take a peak 15-minute period within that peak hour, then you're looking at roughly about 57 vehicles coming into the site.

[04:46:15] That, again, is about one vehicle every 32 seconds. And then it's about one vehicle every 16 seconds, but one vehicle every 32 seconds from each direction, assuming a 50-50 split. So you've got very few vehicles.

[04:46:31] I mean, you're looking at two vehicles in a minute. That's hardly any traffic at all. In fact, I went out there Sunday morning to do a peak of the peak 15-minute survey. There's virtually no traffic there. During a 32-minute segment, zero traffic on Davis Ford Road.

[04:46:49] A minute segment, you've got two or three vehicles on Davis Ford Road. Did you only go out there on Friday night or Sunday morning? Did you also go out there, like I said, during the week? No, we did not. Again, we did not do a Friday evening or a weekday analysis.

[04:47:05] Thank you. Simply because there's very little traffic associated with the church. Sure. All right, thank you. Before I go on to Supervisor Bailey, I just want to ask if you take pictures, please be careful about using flash. Some of us are light sensitive. We do notice that. I think we're a wonderfully good-looking group of people.

[04:47:22] But please be careful about using flash. All right, Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is just for clarity. I didn't hear any reporting on any archaeological burial sites there because a lot of times we have historical cemeteries.

[04:47:42] And so I just want to, for clarity, make sure that that is not the case. Yes, ma'am. We did two phase one assessments for the site, and nothing came back showing any burial sites, any natural habitats.

[04:47:59] There's no issues on the site regarding either of those things. So I think we're in good shape. And I appreciate that. Just asking that just for clarity. Yes. Because a lot of these projects that we do, there are cemeteries there, and we have no clue.

[04:48:15] Yes, ma'am. So thank you. Yes, ma'am. All right, Supervisor Angry. Hey, I guess I'll just jump in with one. How are you doing? Good. One thing I know about that road is it does get dark at night. And I know service is on a Sunday usually.

[04:48:32] I don't know if on the Fridays or Wednesdays or whatever else will be happening, but do you have any plans of lighting in front of the church along Davis Fort? I don't even know if that's something that Davis Fort would want because I know that road is a very rural road. It's a beautiful road to drive down, so I'm just curious.

[04:48:50] We were asked not to do that. We actually, the original idea had an electronic sign with lights. The community did not want that on the property. We took that into consideration. We took the electronic sign away from our plans. It's not a part of our plans at this point in time, so there's less light near the site.

[04:49:09] All right, thank you so very much. I am now going to call up our planning department, because no one else is in queue, so we're going to call up. Thank you so much. Thank you. Good evening, Chair Jefferson, Supervisors.

[04:49:34] My name is Alex Venegas with the planning office, and I will be presenting this case. With me tonight, I have Vanessa Watson, who was the case planner for this case, And we have several subject matter experts from the different review agencies with us here tonight.

[04:49:50] So this is a request to allow a special use permit, to allow a church to be built on this site. The property is located about approximately 1.5 miles from the intersection of Davis Ford Road and Prince William County Parkway.

[04:50:09] Planning Commission and staff is recommending approval. In the bigger context, so you can see everything down here is the county complex. So we also have the police station and fire station down here near the intersection of the parkway and Davis Ford Road.

[04:50:33] And this is the proposed site. And as you can see, this is the Occoquan up here. So the long-range land use classification is OCCO, ORPA, or Occoquan Reservoir Protection Area.

[04:50:52] And I created another slide so I can explain that in a little more detail. We also do have an environmental resource protection overlay in this area, which is just south of the property. And as you can see, most of the property on the other side of Davis Ford Road is A1, and then the majority of the property around the subject site is SR1, which is more dense than or has a higher density than the A1 sites.

[04:51:29] So we marked up this slide to show you all the improvements that the applicant has made. Again, their engineer went through the tapered lane coming into the facility as well as the taper when people are making a right-hand turn.

[04:51:53] We have this turn lane right up here, left-hand turn into the site. Again, this provides opportunities for stacking both on Davis Ford if it's needed as well as throughout this turn driveway that comes into the site as well as part of the parking lot.

[04:52:16] So I think that addresses the concern that a lot of individuals had. They're also providing a retaining wall. They're proposing the underground stormwater management system that will meet the DCSM requirements in Section 700.

[04:52:35] And then this is the area for the proposed septic drain field. And then this is the building, and then this area in here is going to consist of replanting. They did maintain the 30-foot buffer, perimeter buffer around the property, with the exception of the 10-foot buffer that they're providing.

[04:52:57] They did request a waiver for that to split it just due to the entrance that they have for their ingress and egress onto their property. The applicant did provide architectural renderings of what it would look like.

[04:53:18] They are using earth tones that are similar to some of the other properties along Davis Ford Road, like the police station. And also, it's in line with the character that we see in Lake Ridge, where you have the brick.

[04:53:37] But the earth tones of green and brown blended in better to the community. Originally, they had a white building, which staff had serious concerns with because we felt like that wouldn't fall in context with what the surrounding development is.

[04:53:59] They are requesting a monument sign, which meets our requirements. There's been several changes in the application. So originally, it's gone through a number of revisions. I believe we're at, what, eight submissions.

[04:54:17] That's pretty long for an SUP. And we've also gone through three case planners. The original one was Alex Stanley and then Maggie Costello, and now Vanessa has taken over this case. But there's been several revisions to the actual site plan as well as the building size.

[04:54:38] All right, wait, hold on. I'm sorry. Please silence your phone. Thank you. Ingress and egress to the property. They have provided, we had a lot of concern with previous, the previous submissions, because there was really no commitment to the septic drain field and their septic system.

[04:55:01] We really felt it was necessary for them to get, you know, approval from the health department, because if they didn't do that, then staff would have a hard time, you know, supporting this application.

[04:55:17] They are also providing an installation of turn lanes with tapers both west and east. And as you heard from the applicant, they did acquire additional right-of-way for this property. The applicant has agreed to the mitigation for the traffic concerns by hiring police and sheriff officers to help manage with the traffic flow on Sunday mornings and during special events if necessary.

[04:55:48] They previously mentioned soil issues are mitigated through the site plan and a review process, and then the underground stormwater facility, again, that will have to meet DCSM requirements as well as requirements to get their permit for that and its size accordingly, and as their subject matter expert attested, you know, that it's adequate.

[04:56:16] The thing with these septic systems, you know, someone asked about the failure rate. I tried to obtain how many septic systems have failed in this area. I haven't been able to get that information. But I do know as they start, as they age, when you have like a 30 or 40 year septic system in place, that's more likely to fail than a commercial one that's been, you know, that has the annual checkups.

[04:56:44] Since it's an alternative system, it does require those annual inspections. Most of the homeowners, including myself, I'm on septic. We have to pump it out every three years. But other than that, there's really no inspection.

[04:57:02] So, you know, you don't know until you identify the problem. And, you know, I've had my alarm go off before in the middle of the night. And, you know, that indicates you need to do something. So I think if they have that system where they could send a signal to whoever is responsible for it, I think that would really give us another level of comfort.

[04:57:30] So the Planning Commission recommended approval, and so is staff, for the following reason. This is permitted use in the A1, both in agricultural and SR5 semi-rural residential zoning districts with a special use permit.

[04:57:47] The applicant agreed to conditions committing to architectural renderings that blend in with the surrounding area. They capped it at a maximum height of 35 feet in the A1. They could technically go up to 60 feet.

[04:58:05] They received approval from the health department for their septic field. The nearest possible sewer connection is approximately 6,200 feet. When the original application came in, I had issues with that because I remember working on the Occoquan Forest water and sewer line so that we could decommission the old service authority facility for a better, you know, having a sewer line that could pump it and treat it to a more progressive facility.

[04:58:41] So when I found out that it was this far, then I felt like they had to get approval from the health department before they came back to us. And they mitigated the conditions for traffic concerns. So I want to go over real quick the Occoquan Reservoir Protection Area.

[04:59:05] If you remember, this was something that we added to the land use chapter. We worked with Kim Hosen. We worked with Martin Jeter. I don't know if he's here tonight.

[04:59:21] We did work with Supervisor Bode's office and Supervisor Vega's because both their district are located in the ORPA. So, you know, we felt with all the concerns about protecting our water supply that came up over the previous years, that this would be a good tool to start that process of protecting the Occoquan reservoir.

[04:59:44] So we did put parameters in there, and we identified this as areas that the density should be one dwelling unit per five acres, which is similar to the SRR, areas that had 25% or greater slopes or 15% greater slopes combined with soils that had limitations.

[05:00:07] And then primarily to protect public water supply sources, wetlands, and critical erodible shorelines and banks along the Occoquan. And so how we got here, this property is A1.

[05:00:25] So we go to the zoning ordinance. It's allowed as a special use permit in the A1 district. And then there's also general permit in uses in the agricultural and residential zoning district for religious institution with a special use permit.

[05:00:41] They do have some minimum lot size requirements, but also the maximum lot coverage allows them to go up to 85 percent because there was some concern. You know, I know that some people said, well, here it's 26 and in some of the residential areas, it's only 30 percent.

[05:00:57] But since it's a religious institution, there is a language in the zoning ordinance that allows the maximum lot coverage up to 85%. And then in addition to the ORPA, we also have what we call the Environmental Resource Protection Overlay.

[05:01:16] And as you can see, it does not run in this property. it doesn't run you know the or i'm sorry the erpo does not affect most of these properties but it does run to the south of the property and there is some to the north and to put it in context this is all the erpa po areas in that davis ford corridor so you can see there is a lot but it it doesn't run into the church property a lot of the properties that are already developed

[05:01:51] fall within that area so you know it's important that they maintain their septic systems and then the last thing I wanted to go over this is really hard to see but the contours but as you can see you know we talk about you know the slopes and you know when you look at the contour lines throughout this whole Davis Ford corridor there's a lot of steep slopes as the lines get closer together that indicates a steep slope you can see there's areas that you know there's the lines are

[05:02:26] pretty far apart these are areas that are good that don't have the steep slope and I think this property runs at 310 as you get to the elevation is 310 feet as you get next to Davis Ford Road and as you come down to the the lowest point on the property it's 280 and that's similar to most of these properties along the davis ford corridor with the exception of a few properties that uh don't have those steep slopes and that's all i really have i just wanted to cover those things because i knew there was a lot of questions we've been getting a lot of questions from the community

[05:03:03] we just wanted to make sure that they had an understanding you know of why we're here and and why staff is looking at this and recommending approval all right thank you so very much mr Vanegas I'm going to start with Supervisor Vega. Thank you Madam Chair. First off Alex thank you so much for the work that you and the team has put into this application. I know that I personally have gone back and forth with a lot of questions as the community raises them and you guys have been fantastic so thank you for that. Let me start off by asking you a little bit

[05:03:39] about undisturbed areas. Are there any areas that are going to be left undisturbed? So the majority of the project they so for the majority of the project it is going to be disturbed they do have limits of disturbance on their with their project but they do have some reforestation and this area here will be remain undisturbed this what this area as well so there are some areas that will not be impacted by the the development. I guess I should have been more specific in regards to the

[05:04:16] buffer area. Talk to me about that. Okay so the buffer area all this buffer area they're providing a 30 foot buffer area around the property the perimeter which is what we ask for so but we do have disturbance in the front and that's why they're requesting a waiver for that section because they don't have enough area to meet the 10 foot so they're they're splitting it and that's what they ask for in their waiver. The retainer wall, how tall is that going to be? I'm not sure.

[05:04:52] 18 feet at the highest. 18 feet at the highest. Okay. And then in terms of the view shed from the road, what are we talking about here? I don't know if I have a slide, but I think the applicant

[05:05:06] provided us. If I can pull it up really quick. Oops. No, sorry. There, here we go. Sorry, supervisor vega this is uh what it would see as the as you're coming into the entrance from davis

[05:05:40] ford uh this is uh one of the views and as you can see it's it's down uh so it really uh the view shed is i'm not going to say it won't be seen but it's uh minimal compared to if it was up even with the road so thank you i specifically specifically wanted to ask about that because i went personally to check out the site um i want to thank um the pastor for making himself available for me to walk the property. Earlier today, prior to our 2 p.m. session, we received three letters.

[05:06:13] One was from Prince William Water, Commonwealth of Virginia Department of Conservation and Recreation, and another one from Soil Consultants Engineering. Can you briefly summarize what these letters mean in regards to the application? Absolutely, Supervisor Vega. So we did receive a letter from the service authority because we had received some concern from the community that there wasn't adequate water supply in that line, that's pretty much why we asked the service authority to address that situation, which they did. They provided us. The next one was the-

[05:06:51] I'm sorry, Alex, just real quick. They addressed it, meaning exactly what? Is the church in compliance with what we've asked of them or- that there's enough capacity in the waterline to provide service to the church.

[05:07:08] The second one was the DCR. So we had a, you know, we had DCR reached out to us because several people in the community said that there were endangered species on the site, as well as pagonia, which is an endangered flower.

[05:07:32] So DCR did an evaluation, and they provided the applicant with a letter and provided us with a copy of that letter saying, that is not the case. And then the third letter was the stormwater management, which is this gentleman here.

[05:07:51] Thank you. Would you like him to come up to us? Sure. Okay. Good evening, Steve, members of the board. How can I help you? Answer lots of questions.

[05:08:07] In a nutshell, I had asked our county staff to summarize the letter that was sent to us. So since you're the representative of the organization that sent the letter, you're up to let us know what the letter is. I'm the drafter of the letter, in fact.

[05:08:23] We'll take it one more. When Mr. Arthur and Ulan Simmons reached out to us, they asked us as our company, Soil Consultant Engineering, to review the engineering plans and the specifications of what they have to be installed.

[05:08:41] We're based out of Manassas, and we operate in many of northern Virginia counties and Maryland's counties as well, and in D.C. So we've been operating construction, third-party inspections, and oversight, the company, for 65 years.

[05:08:59] And in fact, I've been a part of building churches in Prince William County and other adjacent counties. And this is probably the most standard engineering spec I'd ever seen. So it certainly seemed to meet VIPDES, the Virginia Department of Pollution Environmental Standards, the National Pollution, NEPDES, National Pollution Environmental Standards, EPA, DEQ, Prince William County, and schools is a pretty good civil engineering, and they've been operating for 40 years as well.

[05:09:33] So I asked my opinion of how it looked to me. the stormwater system seemed more than adequate to handle the amount of acreage of lost infiltration. So it's a nearly four acre and some change lot.

[05:09:51] The 18,000 square foot building, the amount of parking that will be there, that will stop the permeability of that water flow. I'm sure you guys are all very familiar with that. And that underground system should be more than adequate to meet all of those standards.

[05:10:08] Great, thank you. Yes, ma'am. Those are all my questions for now, Madam Chair. thank you supervisor where thank you madam chair alex yes sir my two least favorite phrases in all staff reports on balance which i don't see uh and will be handled at site plan um as you're as you're well aware i've got a number of technical issues with this but it seems like everything will be handled at site plan um it's my understanding of the final septic approval won't come until

[05:10:43] site plan um steep slopes will be mitigated at site plan storm water maintenance will be handled at site plan and i think you know what my issue here is if you look at the site you look at the topo and all of these things are going to be handled at site plan sitting below them at the bottom elevation is the undisturbed area between them and the other parcels and so you're going to have all of this activity all of this clearing 18 foot retaining wall which is going to require

[05:11:18] significant cut and fill i would suggest um which brings another issue of dump trucks in or dump trucks out i'm not sure how that's going to work um but i'm a bit concerned about you know you've got both steep slopes and erodible soils right there no you don't have an intermittent stream

[05:11:38] However, you do have a lower elevation beneath all of that activity where I, you know, given recent storms and recent incidents, you know, I'm kind of concerned that you could have that overwhelm that area, especially if the slopes are that steep at the bottom.

[05:12:01] The other thing that concerns me is, you know, we've had this circumstance before elsewhere in the county with slope failure, people's houses and decks being at risk, that sort of thing. It's bothersome, and then we've also had the alternative septic systems.

[05:12:20] I think everybody on this board should recall that we've had one that we had to bail out, a large for lack of a better term commercial grade for for a uh for a subdivision out there by uh effingham where we're now paying for the sewer and water because the alternative system failed um you know i'm not a big fan but i i just i don't know that we i'd like to see a lot of this cleared up and cleaned up before site plan personally uh because i've got some concerns with what the actual impact we're going to be or what changes will be made at site plan

[05:12:56] uh i'm far i'm getting i grow weary of the number of times that something gets approved by this board goes to site plan and then suddenly staff is issuing waiver after waiver after waiver that probably would not have been acceptable to the board but stand but is within the scope of staff's authority at the site plan stage so i've just got some serious concerns here and i i don't think you're going to be able to address it tonight i mean you can try um but i i'm worried understood

[05:13:33] i don't have a direct answer for that um but they did you know in the conditions uh they did commit to complying with all federal state county laws ordinances codes uh requirements policies and regulations and you know those are the the parameters that we have for all applications whether it occurs at site plan or if we address it in a condition but in most cases a lot of this does you're right it does get addressed at some and to that point you know if you get to site

[05:14:12] plan and something isn't feasible from an engineering standpoint because circumstances change or a another agency vdot comes to mind changes their rules or their inspection procedures and suddenly there is a dramatic change required to any number of things, the septic, the stormwater, the design of the sidewalk or the entrance feature.

[05:14:41] And I think I'll address that later. I'm a little leery given the topography and what's going to be required to make this work. Thank you. Supervisor Boddy. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[05:14:57] Alex, Vanessa, and the folks that came before you that have worked on this project over the last almost six years at this point, right? Thank you for all your hard work. I know this has been a long time coming. I know that in the grand scheme of things, working on a project that's on a four-acre parcel for five years is a long time.

[05:15:13] So I wanted to not let that go by without thanking you for all your hard work on this. Thank you for working with the applicant over these long iterations of this project. So a couple of things, as mentioned before, you're talking about areas that are, limits of disturbance include areas of both 15 to 25% slope and 25% slope.

[05:15:33] You know, I've driven in the last five years up and down Davis Ford during spring, summer, fall, winter, during storm where I probably shouldn't be on the road. And other times where it probably was dark, dark, dark, dark to a point that was made earlier about the conditions when there's no lights on this part of the road.

[05:15:55] How often have we seen, just in your recollection, either one of you, us work with a site that disconstrained with this type of steep slopes, and there not been any issues with erodible soils like this.

[05:16:11] We haven't had mudslides or anything like that happen, knowing with how much activity is going to be happening on this site. So from my perspective, I don't recall, I can't recall another case where we approved it where we had major issues like that.

[05:16:28] I don't know if anyone else that has worked on a land use case can recollect. I know that we've had a lot of church SUPs that, you know, that came in and had similar parameters, and they've been successful.

[05:16:46] The street I live on, Token Valley, has a small church that's been there since 1920. Sacred Heart is off of Purcell. You know, those are all in the semi-rural area. Some are bigger than this, and the one that's on my street is much smaller.

[05:17:02] But, you know, I think, you know, with, you know, getting the site plan approved, construction permits, the inspections, as well as, you know, maintenance of the facility, that a lot of that addresses potential issues.

[05:17:21] Again, you know, even like with the septic system, when you have someone checking it every year, that's a lot better than, you know, someone that owns a house that's checking it, you know, every three to five years when they get it pumped.

[05:17:37] So, you know, it sounds like there are some additional safeguards in place with the maintenance oversight, but there's no guarantee. Right, and why I say that, and thank you for that, Alex, because part of the reason why I'm concerned about this is it's sort of two things in 10 that we don't usually see together.

[05:17:56] We have steep slopes, but we also have no mature tree cover being preserved at all. So, you know, you're having a situation where especially when the heaviest of the construction is happening, you're having the paving of the parking lot, the construction of these very tall, sort of slopey-esque rank curb, all this stuff is happening.

[05:18:14] you're cutting away all the trees a lot of what would keep the soil in place is frankly no longer there and i just know of other parts of the county whether you're in the rural area the semi-rural areas where you have folks try as they best as they can put up those those fences they put even put sandbags things like that but we always see them overrun at some point we have extreme storms one of the things that they do for construction is the super silt fence that's something you know we can talk to the applicant if that's something they're willing to commit to, to, you know, minimize those types of things.

[05:18:52] You see that on sites where you do have the potential for erosion or like what Supervisor Weir had suggested that there's, you know, the concern with the construction and the retaining wall. So that's one thing we can talk to the applicant about is, you know, during the ENS to use super silt fence, and maybe some other parameters to protect.

[05:19:17] I appreciate that. And I have two final questions, well, one, actually, one final question, so I'm running out of time here. It was mentioned earlier that this was one of the most standard specs that you've seen.

[05:19:36] I'm talking to the gentleman that issued the letter earlier. And you've seen the good, the bad, the ugly. We've seen all sorts of different kinds of churches around the region and around the county. My question for you is, have you seen one that's sort of nestled in this kind of area, sort of landlocked by basically small lot residential properties and having sometimes wells backing up onto the property line of these sites?

[05:20:02] I've worked in a lot of the counties and in various projects from underground lateral drilling and road and transmission line construction and anything you can think of just about. There are types of controls that I've overseen the use for slopes that are greater than 60 degrees, which would make these almost look flat by comparison, and we had no washout or collapsed failures.

[05:20:27] It's called EC3. Slope stability essentially bolts into the ground, and it can keep things stable while the vegetative grasses grow in. Grassroots can actually keep the soil from eroding away within the same degree of margin of comparability to a tree in some cases even better since grass doesn't fall over but a tree eventually will so there are ways to stable up and secure this plan and some of those things that that i had seen is the 30 foot buffer around the site of vegetation is something that i don't always encounter in construction projects where uh essentially it's

[05:21:06] We'll just call it more minimalistic vegetation and planning. This had some decent amount of green spaces for the type of project planned, and I thought that was good. Not only does it have that preventative measure of slope failure, but that helps with the percolation of water into the ground, which helps take relief off of the storm system itself underneath the parking lot, filtration of the quality of the water before it hits the Occoquan Reservoir area

[05:21:38] All the way around, I thought those were sort of like that gold star standard, that above and beyond is what I was seeing in those plans that I don't always encounter. So that, to me, seemed like this would be a good site.

[05:21:58] It would more or less go without any of the problems that this committee is concerned with. Thank you. Anything else, sir? Supervisor Vega? Thank you, Madam Chair. Not really a question per se, but more so of a comment because I know we're all eager to hear from the community that has shown up and folks that want to speak.

[05:22:22] You know, I'm glad that we're talking about erosion. I know that at some point we're going to get, you know, talking about runoff and whatnot. But to, you know, put the church under a microscope and say that they're going to be responsible for some of those things when other projects that literally encroach on ORPA and have contributed to a lot of these issues that are being raised right now have been approved seems a little hypocritical.

[05:22:43] to me but we'll have that conversation a little bit later down the road all right thank you did you supervisor angry i'll just bring the one question the um 30 foot buffering around the property there's a slide up here that kind of um depicts that very well what is on the other side of of that um of the buffer uh the adjacent properties i i i i have to pull up a yeah specifically what i mean by that yeah okay forestry so okay i see a home one home here and there's an okay okay i just wanted to see yeah that's a good slide right there okay thanks

[05:23:22] all right thank you so very much i appreciate i don't know if there are any more questions for alex i don't see any so we are i am going to open public comment time but i'm going to get repeat some of my instructions because we have a large group of people here and a lot of you have never come before the board i am going to call you by numbers if you did not put down an address And on this page, I only have one person who did not put down an address or a magisterial district.

[05:23:59] So I will call you non-residents. Residents go first. Non-residents go second. I'm going to call everyone in groups of five. Know your number. When you get to the microphone, please state your name and the magisterial district where you live.

[05:24:17] If you're outside of the county, you can state where you live. But again, I'm asking you guys to wait and to allow our county residents to go first. and again it's very important that you speak directly into the microphone so that we can hear you and this is for the official record so we need to know who's coming up and who's saying what and then you get three minutes again on that screen you will have a timer only one person can speak for an organization that person can have up to five minutes but you must request it up front

[05:24:46] so with that I am going to call up numbers one through five all right I would like to get started

[05:25:30] So if you're leaving, if you're exiting, please, so that we can get started. All right, speaker number one. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Val Stanton.

[05:25:46] I live in the Occoquan District. I was raised in AME Church, baptized in AME Church. Both my children were baptized and are members of the Pohick Episcopal Church. When I started looking for a property to build a home here in Prince William County, I actually walked to this property.

[05:26:09] I hiked it, and I had a home plan, a build plan, and I was told that it would not support a 3,000-square-foot home. So that was in 2017, so I looked for a different piece of property.

[05:26:26] I ended up buying two, three lots in Malvern Chase, and the county required me to join two lots to put that 3,000-square-foot home. At the bottom of that driveway, I was required to put in a 13-inch pipe for drain storm runoff.

[05:26:48] Now, this property that I'm now living on is directly south of this land, of this parcel. I don't understand how it's not a stream because I was told that I had to put the 13-inch pipe for the stream. We have been discussing the slope of this property, which goes from 320 down to 280.

[05:27:14] The 280 part is to the south of the property, which is me behind this property. So all of this discussion on what's being fixed in the plan is going north from the church across Davis Ford and across the street.

[05:27:34] No one has talked about going south to where I'm at. The church is not exempt from zoning laws. It has to meet jurisdiction rules. It has to meet zoning limitations. It has to meet fire code.

[05:27:50] It has to meet municipal approval. The concerns that I have are traffic and parking concerns, safety, timely movement on Davis Ford Road, issues with the sewer and water supplies because an inadequate septic requirement and damage runoff is in my yard.

[05:28:11] No one else's. Mine. My well sits at the bottom of that creek. Any contamination comes to my yard. I'm opposed to the location of the church. and any other commercial use of that property. Thank you.

[05:28:28] Next speaker, please. Good evening, Madam Chair and members of the board. My name is Susan Sanders. I live in the Occoquan District on Davis Ford Road. I appreciate the opportunity tonight to share my strong objections to the approval of the special use permit submitted by the applicant.

[05:28:52] Approving the permit would not only set a concerning precedent, but would negatively impact our community and its well-being. Therefore, it is essential that you carefully consider the implications of this decision before proceeding. I purchased my home on Davis Ford Road 27 years ago because of the serene rural character.

[05:29:14] It is one of the last remaining stretches of this historic road in Prince William County. In my 27 years, I have had multiple issues with septic fields go wrong, and I do pump more than every five years.

[05:29:32] I also see the storm drainage at the top of my road overflow and come down our properties because we're on a slope, and you can just see it washing away, and we do have established vegetation. The applicants' intentions to transform this area into a bustling hub of activity pose a significant threat to our community's tranquility and safety.

[05:29:58] The increased traffic, potential vehicle dangers, and necessary road alterations will disrupt our peaceful and rural road. Compromise our property values and negatively impact the integrity of our neighborhoods. By voting no on this permit, you will honor the existing ORPA land usage protections and zoning requirements, safeguard sensitive environmental areas, and the vital Occoquan Reservoir, our water source for over 800,000 residents.

[05:30:32] Please join us in maintaining the charm and safety of our community. Your decision will make a lasting difference. i urge you to deny this permit and stand with us the community you represent thank you for considering the voices of your constituents thank you and i ask um there is a no standing by order of fire marshal unless you are in queue to speak unless i've called up your number i would ask that you please have a seat thank you so very much i'm going to let these people get settled

[05:31:06] before I... All right, sir. I am Jeff Singleton. I live on Davis Ford Road, and I am part of the Occoquan Magisterial District. I've been opposed to this from the first time I heard about it. I've attended every Planning Commission meeting, every MIDCO meeting, any meeting about this to stand up against it. It is not the fact that it's a church. It's a fact that it's anything. Everybody will worry about Arlupa. Arlupa is not a concern. I would stand right here and tell you no if you

[05:31:42] wanted to put a bar in that location. And I love a bar that I could walk home from, right? But if it was even a bar, I would say no, because it doesn't fit the character of the neighborhood. You know, every time the applicant talks, we hear them reference the police station, the fire station, and the church. However, what they fail to point out is as soon as you're past those, the character of Davis Ford Road changes. And you go from these commercial buildings to

[05:32:14] semi-rural, residential, and agricultural. This does not fit in with that. One thing I think Supervisor Bode brought it up real, someone brought it up very briefly, and that was construction traffic and duration of construction. I live a quarter mile from this property. These dump trucks are going to be going by my house. I'm going to hear them. I'm going to see them. My kids are

[05:32:48] going to be standing at a bus stop right on Davis Ford Road as this construction equipment drives by. I have seen countless accidents. We heard them talk about a line of sight.

[05:33:04] Line of sight, that's great if they're doing 20 miles an hour. If you live on Davis Ford, you know the average speed going down Davis Ford is probably closer to 55 or 60. People do not obey the speed limit. It's going to create a problem. I have seen accidents where someone died across the street from my house because they were doing in excess of 70 miles an hour, lost control, went off the road and hit a tree. And what's going to happen when you've got a police officer standing there in the road directing traffic or a line of cars in the row

[05:33:41] of what, eight cars, however many they said that could fit there, and they come around that curve and down that hill at 70 miles an hour and can't stop in time and hit a police officer or hit a standing cars in the road. There are many other properties in this county that would fit for this church. I wish them the best of luck finding a property. I just don't feel

[05:34:08] that Davis Ford is the appropriate property for them. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening board members. My name is Connie Brehane and I'm a resident of Occoquan District. I'm here to strongly urge you to reject special use permit for Davis Ford Road Project. I stand firmly with my neighbors of Davis Ford who will be most directly impacted by the decision made this evening. I hope you will stand with them as well. This is not just about one development. It's about

[05:34:47] the integrity and future of our community. Occoquan District's stated priorities are improving traffic safety, preserving open space, and addressing the need for more affordable housing. And might I add, voters never forget the promises that are made. To accomplish these goals, it is critical to protect areas that are currently zoned for residential use. Occoquan District is one of the most politically competitive district in the county and preserving the integrity of residential zone is essential to the well-being of the community. While I have no personal

[05:35:25] objections to the church or its mission, the location of this project is simply not suitable. The church has the right to exist and grow, but placing a large facility amid single-family home is incompatible with the surrounding environment. The residents of Davis 4 will bear the burden of this decision a decision long after churchgoers return to their homes after service. The long-term consequences for the neighborhood and its residents cannot be overlooked. At its core,

[05:35:59] this project is about land use and its consequences, not the church. Allowing a commercial facility like this one proposed would alter the very nature of this community in ways that are not in the best interest of the residents. For those of you on the board, you know what right looks like approving this special use permit is not the right decision it will fundamentally alter the character of the community in a way that negatively affect the lives of those who live on davis four road approval of this special use permit and residentially zoned areas undermines the ability to address the real need for housing in this in this county uh if if we are serious

[05:36:38] about providing more affordable housing we must protect areas that are zoned for residential use The final voices tonight should be those of homeowners of Davis Fort Road and whose lives and livelihoods are at stake. It is their decision, it is their concerns that should be given the utmost consideration.

[05:36:59] For all these reasons, I strongly urge the board to reject special use 2020-2019 for Davis Fort Road. And lastly, protecting residentially zoned areas is critical for maintaining character of our community, ensuring the well-being of our residents, and achieving housing goals in a sustainable and responsible way.

[05:37:20] Thank you for your time. Thank you. Before I have the next speaker, I would like to call up speakers number 6 through 10. So speakers number 6 through 10, please make your way to the microphone at the back.

[05:37:42] want a few of them to go so that we're not going to be disrupting you. All right, you may begin. My name is Steve Marsters. I am an adjacent landowner to the church property and I absolutely oppose this SUP. In addition to the significant impact to noise and traffic with cars lining up and stacked in these turn lanes and tapers in front of my house and potentially parking on our streets, the septic system, contrary to what the engineer has said tonight, is not sustainable

[05:38:19] for a couple of reasons. Based on what he told the planning commission in October, that it was designed to handle one 208-seat session. I specifically asked him on several conversations, well, what happens if they have two or more services the same day? He said at that time that would not handle it. So because the Planning Commission stated that there is no

[05:38:52] constraints on the usage of the facility, then they can, as they grow, they will just add more services. So I asked Mr. Savage about, well, how do they handle that? Do they just keep adding more septic tanks? And he says, no, because of the geographic available space on the property would not accommodate additional tanks.

[05:39:16] So again, in a short amount of time, it would overwhelm the system. I did a little research in a 2023 analysis by ChristianStandard.com, estimated a church of this size has a growth rate of about 13.5% per year, which would increase within four or five years to over 300 people at any given time.

[05:39:45] So this doesn't even bring in the issues with kitchen or adding additional activities such as weddings, funerals, conferences, or anything, because there is no limitation to how they use the facility.

[05:40:13] So in conclusion, the permit, Health Department permit, was awarded based on a minimum and incomplete set of data of what would happen in a very short amount of time once they build it and start using the facility.

[05:40:30] And the parcel of land could just not sustain a large and imposing facility like this. It seems like there could be the possibility of a mini Jiffy Lube Live right next to me and on Davis Ford Road, depending on how they use the facility.

[05:40:51] And, again, there's no holds barred on how they use facility. They say they don't. Thank you, sir. Okay, thank you for your time. Next speaker. Good evening, board members. My name is Paul May.

[05:41:08] I'm a resident in the Coles District. Can you speak up a little or just a microphone? During the course of my professional career over 49 years, I've participated in the development and construction of 104 churches throughout the Northern Virginia region.

[05:41:27] I cite those accomplishments as evidence that I have no aversion to the promotion of religious facilities. I was involved with a multitude of denominations spanning across the entire ecumenical spectrum. Based on my experience, this relatively small and environmentally sensitive site nestled in a semi-rural residential neighborhood would not have been considered an appropriate site for such an intense use.

[05:41:55] I'd like to expand on Mr. Simmons' comment earlier, citing St. Elizabeth Ann Seton as a similar setting. I was involved with both the interim and the permanent churches, and at that time the church site was bounded on two sides by completely undeveloped property.

[05:42:15] well in advance of the neighborhoods, and the Catholic Diocese of Arlington extended the water main and the sewer laterals to that site. By definition, the purpose of a place of assembly, a church, is to accommodate the gathering of large numbers of congregants from throughout the region.

[05:42:35] The proposed use is the antithesis of an environmental resource which fosters the habitat for a wide range of flora and fauna and provides the current residents' solitude, safety, and a peaceful setting that they have sought.

[05:42:51] One needs only to look to our neighbor, Fairfax County, on the opposite shore of the Occoquan Reservoir, to appreciate their wisdom and foresight in protecting an irreplaceable beauty and benefits of one of northern Virginia's scarce and ever-shrinking natural habitats.

[05:43:10] On the technical infrastructure, the supposition for the septic provisions, shown on the application indicate a septic field that is drastically undersized and is contrary to the discharge data for the applicant's existing facility, which is readily available from the Fairfax County Water Authority. I haven't seen such opposition from the impacted residents since the failure of the Disney America project in western Prince William County. The decision of the elected officials will be on display in maintaining the uninterrupted stewardship of

[05:43:48] the land. Once it's gone, it's gone. I ask for your support in denying the request based upon the inappropriate use of the land. There is an abundance of alternative sites available throughout Northern Virginia which would better accommodate the use. Thank you.

[05:44:08] Next speaker please. Hi, my name is Dr. Erica White and my husband and I built our dream home in Occoquan Forest five years ago, so my district is Occoquan. In addition to being a wife and a mom, I'm a research scientist at the Smithsonian Institution National Museum of Natural History.

[05:44:31] I'm a realtor. I'm an adjunct professor at the University of Miami and a substitute teacher here in Prince William County. I love my neighbors, the community, and the rural feel of the two-lane Davis Ford Road. Our backyard is on Davis Ford, and I do not want an additional one vehicle every 32 seconds in my backyard during peak travel hours.

[05:44:52] I strongly oppose this development in this location. This project is wholly inappropriate for this parcel of land and represents a fundamental failure of responsible land use planning, environmental protection, and community trust. Approving this project would set a dangerous precedent, disregarding zoning laws, compromising public safety, and inflicting lasting harm on the residents, the environment, and the overall character of the area.

[05:45:16] This project violates established land use policies, the parcels designed for low-density, semi-rural, residential use, and the planning staff originally recommended denial due to its conflicts with the long-range land use plan. The scale of this development is entirely incompatible with the surrounding community.

[05:45:36] At over 18,000 square feet, the facility is six to nine times larger than nearby homes, with a massive parking lot that will further disrupt the landscape. The environmental impact is alarming. The project would create huge amounts of impervious surfaces, endanger groundwater that supplies the Occoquan Reservoir, which serves 800,000 people, and require road alterations with mature tree cover, damage ORPA protections, and increase pollution.

[05:46:05] Public safety is another major issue. This development would dramatically increase traffic and travel hazards on an already overburdened semi-rural road. We all know what it is like to drive down Hoadley when the church lets out, and that is a multi-lane road.

[05:46:22] During the last big snow, traffic got screwed up quickly on the two-lane road, Davis Ford, and it took hours for people to get home, and the police had to come and turn people around and tell them not to use Davis Ford. My point is that it doesn't have to be snow to screw up traffic on a two-lane road.

[05:46:40] And to mirror what Jeff said, people are already speeding like crazy down that road. In fact, my husband and I were taking our daughter to school the other morning and some guy crossed the double yellow line right around us in front of Pam's house, which is right next door to this property. So I know that this is a lot and I only have 30 seconds, but I also want to touch briefly on Arlupa.

[05:46:57] Arlupa protects religious institutions. It does not grant automatic approval for any development simply because of a religious affiliation. Ultimately, any project must be compatible with its surrounding environment. The impacts of this development cannot be reasonably mitigated, just as would be true for any comparable project of this scale in this location.

[05:47:15] Arlupa does not override responsible land use policy, and local governments can and should reject developments that are simply not appropriate for a given site. Thank you. I'm going to ask, and I've said this, you know, I appreciate people have been quiet, no outbursts, but even the snapping, you know, I want to make sure that we get to everyone.

[05:47:33] So, next speaker. I'm Pam Marsters. I live on Alford Valley Lane, and I am the property owner living right next door to the proposed special permit facility.

[05:47:52] I am very concerned about safety and the traffic, and I'm really shocked that the traffic expert came on a Sunday and said, oh, there's no traffic. It's good. I live on Davis Ford Road, and I can guarantee you and would encourage anyone to hang out with me at my home that that traffic is not safe.

[05:48:18] It's a two-lane rural road, so the first thing they're going to do close to the church is add lanes, which will be backed up, and there'll be bottlenecks, and there's going to be problems. I think it's wonderful that they said that they're going to, you know, rent a school parking lot and bus participants in.

[05:48:43] But who is going to police that? Who will enforce that? Who do we call when that doesn't happen? And they're parked in front of my house, beside my house, all through my neighborhood where there are no sidewalks. If they park there, it's very dangerous.

[05:49:00] The only way they can get to the proposed facility is to cut through, trespass through my yard, or walk on the road. So I think you need to consider that, because we have no sidewalks, and it's a very big issue.

[05:49:23] You also talked about that there would only be two services, but there's all the bonus services. And there's the Friday night that doesn't start until 9 o'clock and goes to midnight. So, and like you said, weddings and funerals and baby showers and everything that people do at church, there's a lot of activities and a lot of folks.

[05:49:46] And that's a lot of traffic and a danger to the community. And no way, there's no checks and balances. You know, the church keeps saying, we'll do this and we'll do that. Who's going to police it? Who's going to enforce it? And quite frankly, I just don't see the trust.

[05:50:03] I'm also very concerned that this lot is very small, with a very bad terrain, and they are proposing to put a 35-foot, three-story, ginormous building, knock down all the trees, and disrupt the community with this huge building.

[05:50:29] And we've talked about the rain and the runoff, and that doesn't seem to be a problem when this is like a gully thing. You're not even thinking about the Occoquan Resource Protection Area, that this building is just a huge, ginormous building.

[05:50:47] Thank you very much. Oh, God, I'm not done? Oh, well. I'm sorry, next speaker. Serious septic problems. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And before you begin, sir, I want to call up 11 through 15. All right, you may go ahead.

[05:51:24] Thank you. Thank you. Hello, my name is Patrick White, and I reside in Occoquan Forest, which is directly off of Davis Ford Road. I am a lifelong resident of Prince William County. I am speaking tonight to express my opposition to the special use permit for the proposed development on Davis Ford Road.

[05:51:41] My wife and I chose Occoquan Forest as our home and place of raising our children because of its unique character within Prince William County. This is our sanctuary. As the information security officer for GDIT, I am dedicated to safeguarding our nation's critical infrastructure from cyber threats.

[05:51:58] However, I am also deeply committed to protecting the homes and neighborhoods of Prince William County. I urge you to consider the concerns of the residents of the Davis-Ford Road Corridor who overwhelmingly oppose this permit. We are the people who would be directly impacted by this development.

[05:52:16] Occoquan Forest is one of the last remaining rural residential areas in the region. And if this special use permit is approved, it would have a significant negative impact on both current residents and potential future residents. The proposed building does not align with the character of the surrounding area, as stated by the developer.

[05:52:33] There are no other buildings of this type in the residential area along Davis Ford Road. Following our most recent hearing on the special use permit, the pastor's service that Sunday addressed our actions as foolish. A few weeks later, when we met with Supervisor Bodie, the link to the YouTube video was shared in our virtual meeting to ensure his awareness of these comments.

[05:52:57] However, minutes later, the video was made private. This raises questions about their intentions and the presence of an individual on the Occoquan community call who was not a resident. Does this situation align with the previous statements regarding this project's desire to integrate into our community?

[05:53:14] Also, as Supervisor Bode brought up, there are month-long services. Where was this in their presentation? Where were the two services that were later mentioned that would occur on Sunday in the presentation? We would expect them to be forthcoming with their plans and not downplay the number of people visiting on their busiest day, yet over-engineer their septic to support a much higher number of people when they do have these planned bursts.

[05:53:40] Reading between the lines, they do plan to host much more than they've asked for here tonight, directly impacting us residents. I implore you to deny this permit and preserve the neighborhood as a residential area. Our homes and our community deserve your protection.

[05:53:56] Thank you for the time. Next speaker, please. Good evening, board members. Thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion. My name is Earl Cronin. I live on Single Oak Hill Court, just behind this building, not too far.

[05:54:16] I'm not quite as elegant as everybody else, and I don't have a lot of notes, and I guarantee I'm not going to talk real fast, but I do want to talk to the guy who wants that bar back there. I wouldn't mind getting together with him. There are so many things wrong with this project.

[05:54:34] You're going to hear them over and over again. Let them sink in. Hear them and hear them again and again and again, because they're not going to change. Nothing's different. The first time this went through the planning commission, it was disapproved, as it should be, as you should disapprove it. And it's not the first time that the board will disapprove a church in this area. How many of you are familiar with St. Margaret's?

[05:55:02] Anybody? No. You need to do some research. That was just not a half mile from here. St. Margaret's was refused, a white church, okay? It didn't fit. This doesn't fit. You've got a problem.

[05:55:22] You're trying to take a square peg and fit it in a round hole, okay? The folks that did their due diligence or didn't do their due diligence when they purchased that lot remind me of the movie with Harrison Ford and Raiders of the Ark and the chalice where the guy was going to drink the water from the chalice.

[05:55:47] Somebody did not choose wisely. They did not choose wisely. Don't penalize the people of that area, me, and the other residents, because these people didn't do their due diligence. You know, it's not my fault.

[05:56:06] If you're going to listen to the realtor, that's your fault, not mine. Now, I'm going to solve your problem. I'm going to make this all go away. Right up the road here, just up the road.

[05:56:22] In fact, you can walk out here and throw a rock and hit property that they could build that church on. The county needs to give them that piece of land next to the fire department that has all that wooded area that you can cut down, and they can have that.

[05:56:39] Work out a deal with the pastor. Take that property and give them that up there at the corner. Prime property for a church. There's your solution. I'll be available for lunch all day, all next week. All right, and I'm going to give you 23 seconds back because you've got a long night ahead of you.

[05:56:59] Next speaker, please. Good evening. My name is Kay Leahy, and I am a resident of the Occoquan District. I actually live in Crooked Creek right off of Davis Ford. I grew up in Prince William County.

[05:57:14] This is my home, and I decided to return as an adult. As a child, I loved traveling Davis Ford Road with its beautiful hills, its vast towering trees, and its glistening river. It was like an oasis, especially in the summer.

[05:57:31] The magic I experienced as a child did not fade when I grew up. My concern with this commercial development of this lot is that it could potentially give other commercial entities grounds to do the same in the future.

[05:57:48] Davis Ford would no longer be our beautiful wooded residential road. Such commercial growth would also result in additional traffic on our small two-lane residential road. Davis Ford residents already must contend every single day with the drivers using it to travel to D.C. and the area surrounding.

[05:58:09] It's important to note that the residents of Davis Ford Road and the surrounding community would feel this way about any commercial entity attempting to rezone the property. Whether it be a church, a grocery store, or a nail salon. We simply wish to keep our little residential road simply as that, residential.

[05:58:27] Members of the board, I implore you to consider the voices of your community, your community, our community, especially the residents of Davis Ford Road. See the over 1,400 names on the petition opposing this permit, and please vote to oppose that commercial development and any future development commercially on Davis Ford Road.

[05:58:53] Thank you so much. All right, I just want to be careful, move forward to the lady in the white, because the picture behind you was moving. All right, next speaker, please. Hi there, my name is Hina, I live in the Aquan Magisterial District.

[05:59:11] My eyesight must be really bad, because I cannot read any of your names on those things over there. But it is way past my bedtime, so I'm going to try to make this brief. But I've lived in Prince William County for 40 years, don't do the math. I've, we just moved to Davis Ford in 2007, and it is a nightmare to get up and down Davis Ford Road in the morning when you're trying to go down towards the Clifton Road, or in my case, you're going towards work in Manassas, and you're like, I'm never going to make it.

[05:59:38] This kind of construction that you're talking about, they were repaving the road, what was it, three years ago? You couldn't get anywhere. You got stuck. And I mean, sometimes you have a bathroom emergency, you're never going to get home. And what are you going to do? You know, you can't stop and knock on your neighbor's door. I guess I can now, because now everybody knows my name. But I mean, this is ridiculous. I mean, you're just talking about like years and years.

[06:00:00] I mean, this is an 18,000 square foot building. It's going to take my entire adult life to see it get built probably in the way that they want to. And I love God. I'm all about God. Yay, God. Amen for God. But God does not have to be in my backyard. You know, you can bring God wherever you go. Just get your holy book, put it in your car. You're good to go. But you don't need to build a massive church in our backyard where it's going to be completely inconvenient for everybody who lives there and somebody was saying about the snow my god have you guys uh you were saying that you were on the they're on snow my god it's like a ice rink out there and i know that we we treat it but you know you you're just asking for more accidents and i don't really want to see anybody

[06:00:40] getting carted out in black fatality bags if i don't have to so that's that's really i think i all I had to say. All right, thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening. I'm Anna Englehart Barfield. Please, I'm sorry, speak a little quick, adjust the microphone. And I live at 11652 Howitzer Lane. I'm in the Occoquan Magisterial District. What I'm most really disturbed this evening was when I saw the first speaker was Walt Stanton. She's the one that bought the property in 2000, tried to buy the property in 2007, the property we are talking about, to build a 3,000

[06:01:19] square foot house she was told it's hard to believe that the property was too big for the site that the lot only perked for a three-bedroom house that the top topography was too steep that the salts were erodible and that the environmental resource area made up nearly half of the parcel and so on and so on so when she was denied by the planning people she kept looking and bought the property right behind below it and now she on top of everything she will get literally all the shit

[06:01:55] that's flowing down from that property it could be storm water it's the regular runoff run off from impervious surfaces the parking surfaces everybody knows about that and of course when anything goes wrong with the septic tank which is supposed to be uh predicted this is not really what I wanted to say, but I was appalled when I heard about Mrs. Stanton. About Rolupa. Rolupa is not a law that gives religious institutions special rights. All it says is that religious

[06:02:30] institutions have to be treated on equal terms. That's exactly the law language. Equal terms, like any other assembly, club, organization, whatever. I don't know what the board is trying to do by constantly pointing out Rolupa or Rolupa.

[06:02:47] We need to do something about that. Well, you will get sued if you do that. It will not work. The neighbors are up in arms about it. We will not be discriminated against like Mrs. Stanton was. The traffic study, that was interesting to hear about that, von Werntoni.

[06:03:04] I used to work with him on the HOA in Cannon Bluff. He did the traffic study five years ago. V.Rules, you all know that, have changed since then. So what's the point telling us about this old traffic study? You want to convince us that there is not a traffic problem?

[06:03:25] We already luckily have heard from Supervisor Weyer. He has serious concerns. Supervisor Bodhi had some concerns. I was really pleased that at least some of you had some questions about it and some concerns about it.

[06:03:40] And I hope that you will listen to all the other residents that will show up here because we are emotional about it, what is going to happen, and it's not just because one person complained and was discriminated against. It's 1,400 people who are complaining.

[06:03:59] Next speaker, please. Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the board. My name is Kara Graham. I'm a resident of Prince William County, and I have lived on Davis Ford Road for 25 years. I'm here tonight to ask you to vote no to this special use permit.

[06:04:18] Special use permits are a privilege that our county extends to land use outside of its intended purpose. Churches are businesses. They're quasi-political based on how leadership's elected or appointed, but they're a business.

[06:04:35] So if you would say no to a convenience store, a retail store, a big box store, or any other type of commercial entity, then you should vote no to this special use permit all right before i call the next speaker

[06:04:52] i would like speakers 18 i'm sorry 16 through 20 to go to the back 16 through 20 so i'm going to speak fast i'm going to make some random valid points so please try to keep up speak into the mic just a little bit more i i'm going to speak fast i'm going to make some random valid points

[06:05:29] because of the arguments that were made um mrs vega miss vega i voted for you when i lived in woodbine woods and now i lived uh on davis ford road i was uh i moved to america dale boulevard i lived on holey right behind penn elementary i went to bevel middle school where i got all my jokes at the lunch table i went to osborne park i graduated third in my class i went to uva i graduated with an economics degree i bought my house on davis ford road right behind where they're going to build this on beachview creek drive right next to steve and first and foremost i want to god

[06:06:02] bless everybody here. I hope this finds you and the family well. It's not about God. It's about a building, a building that is going to be here. I love basketball. I would love an LA Fitness right here, right behind my house. But no, because this is residential. It hurts our community. It hurts our value. I would love a theater here. Theater doesn't work out. So apparently 85% of this four acre property is going to be used from me to where you are sitting is 40, 50 feet. So it's 30 feet of just grass here behind my house is 30 feet of property right next to steve and i have sod there

[06:06:37] and water rushes through sod is the most absorbent thing and water rushes through like a river okay i i'm i've lived here i moved here by five miles since coming to america it's not about god it's about the placement of it being here right now as you approach that corner there's wreaths there because somebody just died there because there's a straightaway and then the road literally turns 45 degrees and then another straightaway so now multiple times a week we're going to have police officers come and and and and and facilitate traffic when there's only perked for a three bedroom so like uh grandparents and and a grandchild or three people should be living there

[06:07:13] three bedrooms i perked for a four bedroom one time my my toilet was running at 10 o'clock when i went to sleep my toilet kept running at two o'clock my alarm went off my there's flooding in my house and my drain is going up it's going to happen i lived there for two years i just bought my home there i do not want this there because it does not match it does not fit there's just no way this should be a 10-0 vote like on my god there's so many points against this on hodley build a beautiful church there braddock road fairfax is smart they put all their churches on braddock road clifton is beautiful davis ford is beautiful you turn on to there it's gorgeous yes there's a

[06:07:50] church on the corner so put a church on the corner but from there to the bridge there is nothing it's a residential would you want a something a big building behind your house and your residential it's residential for us for us davis ford people okay this should be a 10-0 vote all right god bless you guys you guys bought in 2819 that means y'all made money sell this property to a family a small family to to build their small home and and take that profit and and put a down payment on your springfield house and make a new church this is crazy this should be a 10-0 vote your first instinct in the planning committee said no and then somebody something changed in October now

[06:08:26] we're saying yes now we're all here and now if it's denied they could come back here in two years we'll all be rejoined I love these neighbors we love each other it just doesn't fit here this is a 10-0 no way this can be permitted and then please sell please sell buy a sick property buy a big growing church don't fit it 85 percent thank you so very much I love the energy however Next speaker.

[06:08:52] Next speaker. And I want to repeat, when it is your time, I'm trying to be respectful and accommodate everyone. When it is your time to speak, speak. We have a time limit. Please honor that so other people will have a chance.

[06:09:10] You may go. My name is Edmund Andrews. I'm with the Occoquan District. I will first talk about ORPA non-residential floor area ratios. Can you bring the microphone a little closer? I will first talk about ORPA non-residential floor area ratios.

[06:09:29] for the proposed site. According to the staff report for the proposed building, the ORPA non-residential floor area ratio target is between 0 and 0.02. We could not find any references to what the calculated ratio is for the proposed building, but we can make an estimate as follows. To estimate the floor area ratio, we take the gross floor area of the building of 18.4 thousand square feet divided by the total lot size of four and a half acres, that is equivalent to 186,000 square feet,

[06:10:07] which results in an estimated floor area ratio value of 0.1. This is five times the maximum ORPA-targeted floor area ratio of 0.02 we mentioned above. The ratio estimate of 0.1 that the proposed site will have assumes a 100% buildable land space. If the actual buildable land space were less, say 75%, the rough average in Virginia, then the floor area ratio value would

[06:10:41] be larger by 6.6 times the ORPA target. At 50% of buildable land space, typical of non-flat parcels such as the proposed site, then the floor area ratio would be even higher at 10 times the ORPA target. Looking at it in a different way, for a building to meet the ORPA target in the proposed lot, assuming the 100% buildable land space, the maximum size of the building would have to be smaller than 3,700 square foot. At 75 percent buildable land, it would be smaller than 2,800

[06:11:18] square feet. And finally, at 50 percent buildable land, which is more reflective of the proposed site, it would have to be smaller than 1,850 square feet. Please note that these ORPA guidelines are specifically directed at non-resident sites. Next, I will address U.S. average church in capacity, and size. To better understand the proposed building size, a search on the internet reveals that in the U.S., the average capacity of a church is 200 people, and the average building

[06:11:51] size is 2,000 to 6,000 square feet. This would suggest that the proposed building at 18,000 plus square feet would be capable of supporting a vastly larger congregation than indicated in the proposal. For all these reasons, and for those that have been mentioned before, I oppose this project. Next speaker, please. Craig Westney, Occoquan District. So grateful to have a board of supervisors willing to support our county and our diverse communities and listen to our

[06:12:29] constituents of our communities in our interests. So thank you. This church project is a square peg in a round hole, as actually somebody stated earlier, from forcing a special use permitting process to squeezing a nearly 19,000 square foot building onto a four and a half acre property.

[06:12:50] Can it be done? Sure, it can be done. And we've had several architects, engineers, soil scientists, and experts tell us how it could be done. And as we all know, numbers and data can be manipulated to tell us anything we want and the positive outcomes we would like to see.

[06:13:08] The real question here is, should it be done? There are dozens of technical reasons, structurally, environmentally, water and sewer, and community, why it shouldn't be done. Staff even articulated the complexity of this project and the fact that it needed eight revisions over five years to get to the point where we are today, still discussing this project.

[06:13:32] And I'll also state in several points of the presentation the concern and statement, and I'll quote, at this time. And as you've heard several times, this project is so oversized for the community, the church community, which it says it'll represent.

[06:13:49] It is completely unfathomable why such a large building should consume 85% of this property. And we haven't spoken enough about community. A church should represent the community that it's part of. It should be supported by the community.

[06:14:07] It should be welcomed by the community. It should benefit the community. As I said, this church project is a square peg in a round hole because it's not part of the community. It's a church business looking to develop land in a location which is not technically suited for the proposed project.

[06:14:27] Hence, the special use project has to support a special use permit, but the church hasn't even reached out to talk to the community directly to integrate and discuss why this is the right spot for their church community.

[06:14:46] I asked the Board of Supervisors elected to protect the interest of our county and our communities, how does this project, by an outside entity, benefit a community that is clearly opposed to it?

[06:15:02] What financial benefit to the county is there, given that this is a tax-exempt church? Thank you for listening to the voices of the community who will be impacted by this project, and I ask that you vote no. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Yes, good evening, Chair Jefferson and Board of Supervisors. I'm Mary Lauren from Yates Ford Road, and I'm in the Coles District.

[06:15:33] After so many of your constituents and others who travel Davis Ford Road have objected to the proposed placement for this church, I cannot believe that this special use permit is again coming up for a public hearing and board vote tonight. It is very, very disheartening and vexing to have our supervisors encourage this church to locate on a residential lot among a settled community of homes where it will infringe on their right to enjoy a peaceful home. I am a taxpayer who have lived on Yates Ford Road and driven on Davis Ford Road for over 24 years, and I know many along the route who have lived here longer than me. Many are senior citizens.

[06:16:12] The homeowners adjacent to this site already are placing their lives in God's hands when they enter or exit their driveways, as I do when I exit and enter my lane because of the traffic on Yates Ford Road. I'm joining all of my neighbors who are petitioning the board to listen to us and vote no on this unsuitable use of 5451 Davis Ford Road. We are your constituents, and what is the point of having a public hearing if you're not hearing us and not concerned about our welfare?

[06:16:45] If two homes were built on this lot, there would likely be six vehicles. There would also be an assessment value of at least a million dollars. The transportation paragraph and the staff report does not address the real issue. Having someone directing traffic will only increase the danger here.

[06:17:05] According to VDOT records, the last traffic count on Davis Road Road was 2023. Because true traffic has now returned to the more than pre-pandemic levels, It is unconscionable to be considering approving the addition of 200-plus vehicle trips on the secondary road without a new count in traffic flow.

[06:17:26] If you vote yes for this myth, you are endangering my life and all of those who travel Davis Ford Road. You personally and the board should be held liable for any future accidents along this stretch of road. You are aware that not all of the traffic going to this church would come up from the parkway.

[06:17:43] It would be coming down from Yates Ford Road. We had a fatal crash at that intersection on April 15, 2024, and at least five other vehicular accidents last year. A flag person was killed at the northern blind corner and a motorcyclist at the southern blind corner from this site.

[06:18:02] There was also a property damaged on January 6, 2024. Just last week, I was three cars behind a school bus going south when it rounded the corner and turned into Alfred Valley Road. The vehicle behind me couldn't see the bus and had not slowed down and narrowly missed rear-ending me. On October 30th, 2024, there was a property damage accident north of River Heights.

[06:18:28] There will be vehicles along the road and pedestrians. Please vote no. Thank you. Next speaker. Madam Chairman and members of the board, good evening. Jack Kuyumjian, president of LOCA. I would like to ask for five minutes, if I could, as president. Thank you.

[06:18:49] sir. I just, I'm in the Occoquan Magisterial District as a resident. Transformation Temple International, formerly the International Central Gospel Church, began their outreach to Midco and Loka Pelt in about June of 2020, June, July, August. So Loka Pelt met August 6th with Pastor Sadiq Arthur and some of the principals of the church, and the first thing we did was when we

[06:19:26] looked at the site, we said, gee, you really need to be on public water and sewer. Now, this site has public water that they have, so this is good, and it's adequate, and that was confirmed by Prince William Water, but the sewer is a problematic issue. So the first instinct by the Pell Committee was, gee, we really want the church to locate in Prince William County. Now, that's an honest statement. The committee said, we want you here in Prince William County, but they turned the site

[06:20:04] the committee turned to was the Sullins site right on Minnieville Road because it has water and sewer parking actually the buildings are there well it turns out the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is there but they we were thinking they had excess capacity and but and we thought gee you should look at that and so but they didn't they they didn't buy the site on a contingency they put money down the realtor should have never done that to them and they put all their eggs in that basket and so

[06:20:40] One of the missives that we have from the former Pell Chairman, Tom Burrell, who was Pell Chairman for 23 years, he would say to us, he was in the military, he went to West Point, he was a straight arrow shooter.

[06:20:58] And he said, hey guys, if the Board of County Supervisors approves something that you see has a problem, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to say, oh gee, we should have worked with them? So he encouraged us to try to take an SUP that is designed to mitigate adverse impacts and try to work on them and massage them to see if we could get a solution.

[06:21:23] But I'll tell you, we've been on and off on this one. We had some, the church stopped at one point when we had some issues with the Planning Commission and to work on understanding that we'd only have one phase. Because when Reverend Arthur came to us, he had visions of sugar plums.

[06:21:43] He wanted to invite the community to use the facilities and all of that. But as we looked at it, we saw the safety on the road. Why wasn't this site developed? If you look at a 50,000-foot view of Davis-Ford Road, there's just homes on well and septic.

[06:22:03] The police station at the head of Davis-Ford Road toward the parkway and the church. They're on a public sewer down there. They don't have septic there. This site has septic, but it has all those Orpah challenges. It's got the topography, the highly erodible soils, the steep sloped areas, the clearing of the tree cover. And then so then what our concerns were, the two people that live at the bottom of the site, we don't want their septic systems to be

[06:22:40] overloaded by improper management of stormwater because we have sheet flow across Davis Ford Road. So we worked on traffic mitigation, waste management. We asked for a robust septic system, but we have stormwater that's really problematic. And we looked at that and said, we have more work to do on that to be comfortable with it. Actually, we've taken it from 2020 to the present time. Here we are, 2025, and we still have issues. So we're not comfortable with this

[06:23:20] going forward as an approval, and we see more work needing. But if you turn it down, we have a list of churches they can work with to locate in Prince William County. We'd love to sit down with Olan and Reverend Sadiq Arthur and talk about those choices as well. Thank you very much. I'm sorry that we worked as hard as we could on it. We love the congregation. We want them to be in Prince William County, but we have problems with the site. It's the site, not the people. People

[06:23:56] are great. It's the site. Thank you. So before I call up the next speaker, can 21 through 25 make their way to the back? 21 through 25. Good evening, Madam Chairman and members of the Board of Supervisors. I've been doing this for 52 years. I just figured out tonight, so this is not my first rodeo. I want to say, re-echo what Jack said, we want your congregation, a very impressive congregation to come to Prince William County because we know you can make us better than we

[06:24:36] are now. My concern is that we don't let you guys get screwed in the process. This is a high-risk project and there's a lot of things that could go wrong and you saw tonight how many things you could go wrong and what they did is they hid them all into site plan review. Well, when they tell you site plan, trust us, be very cautious because that's how they screw you. I'm just going to talk

[06:25:07] about some things for mitigation. One, we should have no sheet flow off of the site during a storm so that no storm gets off the site into the neighboring houses. There should be a trash fence at the bottom of the site to pick up all the trash that gets washed through every time there's the storm. The stormwater standard in the county is the 10-year stormwater, which we get every three days during the summertime. It's ridiculously low, and the state needs to unscrew

[06:25:42] that. What we do, what do we plan? You're going to need a plan on what you're going to do when a 50 or 100-year storm is predicted. Okay, one of the things that occurred to me that you could do was build a concrete block fence across the bottom of the property so that your parking lot It could be turned into a swimming pool temporarily.

[06:26:08] Remember, cars float. Have you seen it on TV time and time after time? If there's a big storm and you guys are all in the services, your cars are going to float right down that hill and into the Occoquan. And I want to know which one of the Board of Supervisors is going to go down there and haul them back out because they approve of this if they do.

[06:26:30] Sewer. I think you should have a contract with a pump company in case you do get to a high level watermark in the sewer storage areas. And so that if you get to the high watermark, you can say, this is the number we call, and they send a pump truck out to take the excess out.

[06:26:53] Traffic. There should be two lights installed on Davis Ward Road to stop traffic 500 meters on either side of your entrance. Finally, I'd like to suggest to the staff that you put addresses in the SUP permits in the agenda so we can do our own map studies.

[06:27:16] We don't have an address, so you can't go to Google Maps and find out what's going on and what we're doing to your neighbors. Thank you very much. God bless you. Welcome aboard or stand by for interesting times.

[06:27:31] Thank you, board, for listening to me. My name is Michael Dangerfield.

[06:27:47] I'm an Occoquan District resident and I'm living in the affected Davis Ford resident area and I've been living in this area for 27 years. I request you deny the special use permit for the International Central Gospel Church. This project is wrong for the community and violates all the policies established for land use in Prince William County. I just want to pass on what is I've ascertained in my interactions with the pastor and church members since 2019 when this proposal first came up through METCO and other meetings.

[06:28:17] They freely omit, using the Religious, Land Use, and Institutional Persons Act as a battering ram to force Prince William County officials to approve an application that should be denied based on the merits of not meeting the evidentiary thresholds required for approval.

[06:28:34] I've asked a team of engineers and environmental people who work for me at the Pentagon to review the application. They all state the site cannot support the proposed septic system. They fully endorse the original Prince William County planning documents, which state that it can barely support a three-bedroom perk versus the 18,416-square-foot church.

[06:28:58] To quote the original June 23, 23 Prince William County staff report, the proposed is larger and greater intensity than the residential uses in the surrounding area. In addition, environmental constraints containing steep soils and unsuitable soils exist on the site.

[06:29:14] Therefore, the staff is recommending the Planning Commission recommend denial at the Special Use Permit. It's very apparent that the documentation of the Prince William Planning Office and the Planning Commission immediately plundered this application to the supervisors for a decision rather than deny it based on the overwhelming evidence.

[06:29:34] They merely stayed approval with no change in the staff report other than based on a revised septic plan which was submitted by the applicant. However, the plan was not part of the report and it never presented to the planning commission in the meeting that occurred last year. This doesn't pass the common sense test.

[06:29:51] How can a system with users ranging from 50 to 20 per day, 7 days a week, process waste percolated on the site, or does it merely release untreated waste on the site, thus contaminating surrounding areas, groundwater, and the aquifers that we all rely on for our water?

[06:30:07] You've heard about the septic person. He gave some initial lowball estimates required of basically five gallons per seat. That's incorrect assumptions. He, again, did not address all the services they have.

[06:30:24] There are some wealth inside and outside Prince William County that the Religious Land Use and Institutional Personal Act prevents denying a land use application. The RIPA is very straightforward. It simply requires local, local governments apply the same standards of scrutiny to both religious and secular land uses.

[06:30:42] It requires the Board of Supervisors to apply the same standard of scrutiny to this religious applicant as it would to a secular applicant. It requires the Board to implement and enforce land use regulations on this project exactly as it would for a secular project. Thank you very much, sir. Your time is up.

[06:31:01] Good evening, Board. My name is Catherine Duncan, and I live in the Woodbridge District. I'm going to touch on an issue that we've touched on previously, but I want to reiterate a few points. Specifically, the Transformations Temple's proposed septic system.

[06:31:19] From our perspective, we do feel that the septic approval is invalid. When the Virginia Department of Health approved the proposed septic system, the applicant never provided its current facility usage. And this has been a point that's been brought up multiple times tonight. The concern is with regard to the actual usage.

[06:31:37] Currently, the facility usage data at the Springfield location, which is a commercial facility, highlights that more than 1,000 gallons per day is what needs to be accounted for. And therefore, it requires a separate permitting. The discrepancy is largely due to the fact that the applicant only requested approval for weekly services, which we've talked about.

[06:31:56] But in reality, they frequently use the building for other events. We've also talked about that on consecutive days. So definitely there's just concern with regard to the increasing use at this facility and in result at the increasing use of their septic system. The data clearly proves that the plan septic system that's been proposed isn't necessarily is inadequate for the use of this congregation, especially if it does continue to grow.

[06:32:23] We've also talked about that concern. So when this publicly available information was reported to the VDH by residents of the community, VDH explained that we can only issue a permit based on information provided by the owner and system designator at the time of permit issuance.

[06:32:40] So once again, we're getting back to the point that we feel like the permit initially was invalid when it was submitted or when it was approved. So from the VDH perspective, another official said the VDH's hands are tied at the moment. It's plainly dishonest to use the VDH approval as evidence that the septic plans are adequate.

[06:32:56] That approval was based on the applicant's intentional exclusion of vital facts that would have reversed the outcome. When VDH affirmed that the applicant's septic system would be adequate for their inaccurately predicted use, that did not change the fact that the PwC Division of Engineering and Planning clearly prohibited the applicant from using a septic system at all for its disposal of sewage waste, requiring them to use public water and sewer.

[06:33:20] This was explicitly stated by the professional engineer David Alguera in a memo on March 16, 2020, to the PwC Planning Office. He wrote the subject property is required to utilize public water and sewer to develop. In this same memo, he also acknowledged that the public sewer is 6,200 feet north of the property.

[06:33:38] The VDH approval that was based on inaccurate information has in turn been used as the sole justification for moves by other county officials, departments, agencies. Most importantly, the PwC planning staff. The planning staff should, on this deeply flawed VDH approval, as the only support for their recommendation to the Planning Commission to approve the SUP.

[06:33:56] It's the obligation of the board to look at all the relevant facts, not just rubber stamp a project. For these reasons, we strongly urge you to deny the SUP for the transformational temple. So thank you. Thank you very much.

[06:34:12] Next speaker, please. Good evening. Thank you for having this hearing tonight. My name is Sean Miller. I've been a resident of Prince William County of the last six years.

[06:34:29] I'm in the Occoquan District. My family and I live in Occoquan Forest in that neighborhood, which is composed of roughly 240 family homes. I'm also on the Occoquan HOA. I can tell you as an active person in that community, nearly everyone is concerned and strongly opposed to this special building permit.

[06:34:53] and against this disruptive 18,000 square foot development, one and a half miles down the road from our community. I have to travel Davis Ford Road every day to go to Fort Belvoir, where I work as a DOD civilian.

[06:35:10] I'm worried about the introduction of new traffic hazards, congestion, safety issues on this narrow rural road, especially as the father of a 17-year-old new driver. As a volunteer Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources instructor, I'm seriously concerned about drainage and additional stress on this watershed we all love.

[06:35:33] The church has purchased the land, and the special permit allows bending the rules that Val was required to follow when she wanted to buy that property and build her 3,000-square-foot home. Her house now will be impacted negatively by the erosion, the runoff, and the construction from the septic system problems that will happen and the well that she has just adjacent to it in the future.

[06:36:07] there should be no special exceptions. This permit is special in that it will open the floodgates for more special exceptions, changing our rural community for the worse. Please vote no. This permit should have never gotten this far. I also believe this should be a 10-0 vote in favor of the residents. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Ms. Maines, before you begin, if I could call the next

[06:36:45] group up, please. Group from number 26 to 30, if you could come in and get lined up. 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30. Thank you, Ms. B. Thank you. My name is Liesl Main, and my family has lived in Prince William County since 2010. Our property is just directly north of the Transformation Temple Church proposed site. We live on Wide Oak Court, which is in the Occoquan Oaks neighborhood.

[06:37:23] So that makes us the Occoquan Magisterial District. Our property and our home can be seen in your aerial photos, like in the staff report. And on our property is a creek that runs all year long.

[06:37:39] There's water in it all year long, and it goes directly down to the Occoquan. I'd like to speak today about two things, primarily about the traffic impact and the environmental impact. So the entrance for the proposed site for the church is just 842 feet from the entrance to our neighborhood.

[06:38:04] And according to the special use permit, the church is expecting to have the Sunday services, Wednesday, Friday services. But they're also expecting to have Easter, Christmas anniversaries, weddings, and funerals.

[06:38:20] I'm just reading from what they had written, along with those four special events that might last 20 days. And this is a lot of vehicle use. So, again, quoting from the documents there, they expect around 140 daily vehicle trips.

[06:38:41] And this surprises me. I don't understand the number. I went and double-checked my computer. It's on page 20 of that report. 579 vehicle trips on Sunday with an average of, and I'll quote, the applicant estimates the site will generate 251 vehicle trips per day.

[06:39:02] So I won't go with the 579 vehicle trips on Sunday because I don't understand the math if they only have 208 people. And even if you double that, that's, you know, let's not go with that one. We'll go with the smaller number. So if you take my neighborhood, which has 42 to 45 houses, that means that every person in a five-member household like mine will break out and leave the neighborhood, you know, to drive out onto Davis Ford Road.

[06:39:37] that's five extra trips per per household in in our neighborhood and i just wanted to like break that down with some real numbers this that's a lot of traffic that's that's going to leave on sunday and it like it says it's they're estimating 251 vehicle trips per per day so i don't understand why they wrote that i i'm just quoting from that document so i don't i guess i don't have time to talk about the environmental issues that i have with the property a lot of people have spoken that

[06:40:11] but i just wanted to thank you for listening to all of us who have concerns thank you next speaker please hello all my name is jessica householder i live in the occoquan district and i oppose this project just the mic a little closer because you're soft spoke if you're self-spoken i have my mic real close because sometimes we need a little extra is this good yes there we go okay so i'm jessica householder i live in the occoquan district and i oppose this project the unsuitable piece of property in question is far from the only location available to this church

[06:40:48] searches throughout this application process consistently revealed multiple appropriately sized commercial spaces for a congregation this large multiple available church facilities that they could immediately occupy and multiple parcels of land on the market that are already appropriately zoned and sized for a project like this. The applicant was informed by multiple individuals, community groups, and county officials of many suitable and available alternative options within Prince William County. If the applicant had pursued any of these options, they could have settled into a new location years ago. Many of these options would have cost them much less money,

[06:41:25] would not have come with any rezoning difficulties, and would have provided far more room for any expansion that they desire there's absolutely no need to squeeze this church into this unsuitable piece of property as our community has done during this entire process we respectfully urge the applicant to establish their church in any of the excellent excellent locations within our county rather than on a piece of land that a county official the county officials had already deemed unsuitable even for a single family home thank you so much for your time next speaker please

[06:41:56] Good evening. My name is D.T. Naylor. I live on Davis Ford Road in the Occoquan District. My family and I own and lived on Davis Ford Road directly across from this project site, which is located on Davis Ford Road.

[06:42:15] For more than 23 years, we have lived there, and I agree with the previous speakers who are against this project and will try to tailor my speech around what has already been said. You have heard or will hear from members of the church sharing their life-altering stories and what brought them to the church.

[06:42:32] These are all wonderful, heartwarming stories, but this church and the congregation are not location-specific, and this location does not affect its members. There are other sites, locations that the church could consider to be a better fit and accommodate the growth and expansion they are planning for the future.

[06:42:52] The churches that were cited, a reference in the beginning of this, are on larger lots. Let's see. The original plans report dated June 14th, 23, recommended denial and saying that it would have a negative impact on the community.

[06:43:15] Nothing has changed. And they said that, insisted that the public necessity, convenience, general welfare, and good zoning practice are served by recommending denial of this request. Nothing has changed. And I also concur with that denial.

[06:43:34] If there's police service at that, at the intersections with the church, where are the police cars parked? There's no shoulder, there's no place for them to go. They also said that the water, public water, said that there was adequate usage.

[06:43:54] That site would be the first customer on the line to Occoquan Forest. So that should affect Occoquan Forest pressure and water if it's all stopping there. So at the commission and in the water, the septic system, they testified that the public hearing, only one Sunday service, one Wednesday evening, and one Friday evening.

[06:44:30] And the septic system then was said that it's only good for one service on Sunday. Today is the first time we've heard of a change to their services on Sunday, which again means they plan on growing. There's not enough room on this site for growth.

[06:44:51] Again, this is going to set a permanent precedent for more commercial and non-residential projects on Davis-Ford Road. So I would like to ask you to vote to deny this SUP. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening.

[06:45:09] Rev. Michaelman, Occoquan District. Thanks for everyone for being here. I've never been to any of these meetings in my life. This is actually the first time. The reason why I'm here is because I know how important this is. As you've heard from everyone, residents, your constituents, are totally against this project.

[06:45:26] Therefore, everyone here should vote against it. It's obviously what people are talking about, the location of it. It's not for anything other than a residential home, a single-family home. And when people are saying, well, it's going to blend in with the community, it's going to stick out like a sore thumb.

[06:45:44] It's an 18,000-square-foot structure. The construction will take years. There will be probably 1,000 dump trucks coming in to haul away dirt. There's going to be a 20-foot retaining wall. So it's something not for this community. And I think that you should definitely vote, obviously, against this.

[06:46:03] And for the people who live very, very close to this possible, hopefully there's not going to be any construction site here, their properties are going to wind up like a swimming pool. And it's really going to negatively affect a lot of the neighbors here in the community, the homes, the home values.

[06:46:20] So I urge everyone here to vote against this project. Thank you for your time. All right, before the next speaker goes, I'd like to call up our next group, and that is 31 through 35. So if you are speakers 31 through 35, I don't, come on now.

[06:46:45] I have to say, come on, I know we've got more people. 31 through 35, coming once, twice. All right, go, sir. Great, thank you for the time. My name's Colin Wellborn. I'm a resident of Spring Lake Estates, which is off of River Forest.

[06:47:02] I want to start by saying I'm a Republican, my wife's a Democrat, and I voted for Kenny Bode. And the reason I did that is because you came to my door, you knocked, you talked, and you asked for my vote. And I didn't see that from anybody else who was running. And I'd like to think that those of you who are also on the board did the same to earn the votes of your constituents. I'm also a combat veteran. I'm a disabled veteran. I served for years in the special operations and intelligence community, going after our nation's hardest targets and planning missions of vital national interest. So as you look and prepare to vote for

[06:47:41] this, and I know many of you on the board are former military members, I want you to think, would you launch a mission based on bad data, bad outdated data? And that's a lot of what we've been seeing tonight. We've been seeing traffic studies from 2022-2023 while we were still in the height of COVID. We've been seeing data on traffic where the study was conducted on a Sunday and used to be comparable to current traffic on a weekday night during our commutes. How in the world could that be feasible and how could you trust that data? We also look at the fact that

[06:48:20] Just several years ago, a single-family home of 3,000 square feet was denied on this property. Yet here we are, six years later, and we're at the verge of possibly approving an 18,000-square-foot structure on that property. How does any of this make any sense?

[06:48:37] This location, this location just does not work for this property. And I think we've been reminded by that many times tonight by the audience. I also thought it was interesting that we were told that the colors of this building are very similar to those used in Lake Ridge.

[06:49:00] Well, I'm sure many of you drive through Lake Ridge every day, and Lake Ridge is very, very different from the Davis-Ford Corridor, an area I moved to to find peace and get away from things like my post-traumatic stress. And now I'm preparing to have to experience every day as I drive my daughter to daycare construction, traffic, And who knows what other problems may appear as we look at the septic fields, as we look at the erosion, things that we can't take back.

[06:49:32] So let us pause on this. Let us think about the new data that's coming to light. Let us look at the fact that we're looking at outdated data. Let us think about the fact that we've got signatures of over 1,400 people, and that's just from one district. If this vote happens, if you do say yes to the special use permit, then what are all your other constituents in your respective areas going to think?

[06:49:57] Because this could happen to them, and I would hate to see that. Thank you for your time, and have a great night. All right, next speakers, please. Good evening.

[06:50:15] My name is Ben Raskowski. I'm a resident of the Occoquan District, and I've lived on the Davis-Ford Road corridor for over 10 years now with my family. I've learned a lot about this project between the zoning board meeting a few months ago and tonight's discussion and the slideshow presentation at the beginning.

[06:50:33] I've seen it a couple times now. I'm learning new things about even my own community. surprised to learn that there's so much development on Davis-Ford Road already, when actually we realize and we understand the people who live there that the police station and the church and the fire station are way down at the bottom of Davis-Ford Road, two miles away from this proposed site, a totally different area. One thing I have not heard, one compelling reason why this special use permit should be voted on and moved forward. Not one compelling reason. I've heard a lot of reasons why it shouldn't be. A lot of reasons why it shouldn't pass. And I'd like to add one more

[06:51:11] reason tonight. That's my family's safety. My family lives on Davis Ford Road. Like I said, we travel up and down this corridor every day. We already see major traffic accidents, lethal, fatal traffic accidents at the top and bottom of Davis Ford Road. We know that a project like this will only add to the congestion, the confusion, the chaos along this corridor. This will add traffic accidents to our community. Anyone who looks up and down this road can see how utterly incompatible, utterly incompatible, a project like this would be on Davis Ford, and it will only get

[06:51:49] worse. I see that the applicants love their church. A church is designed to grow. You saw this for yourselves in the original plans of their parcel. They want this church to grow. The church is planning to grow and this lot is already incompatible as I said. This board will not be able to stop the growing hazards that will snowball with this project over time. This is why we have zoning regulations in the first place. It's why this parcel was zoned properly in the first place and why no one in this community supports this plan and why this special request should not pass

[06:52:23] tonight. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good evening. My name is Linda Cronin and I live off Davis Ford Road, and we've lived here for 25 years. I want to point out that I totally disagree with the church being built on this site. To start with, it's been a lot that has never been developed since 1983, when this whole area was actually first developed. So it's been empty.

[06:52:52] I also want to point out that a lot of people in this community have put a lot of time and effort into doing their research on the church and its proposals. We heard a lot when they first proposed that they didn't want to expand.

[06:53:09] Now we find out that not only do they want to expand, they're going to have a youth ministry, and that was in the planning that they didn't mention. A lot of the fact that they said they weren't going to expand and that they didn't have more than the regular church services was actually pointed out by Supervisor Bodie.

[06:53:28] and a lot of this came because the constituents have done their research. All of this is on their website, so none of this is not unknown. They also said that they only have a kitchen where they're going to do warming. They actually have a 1,000-square-foot kitchen planned, and my thought is what are they doing, feeding the 5,000?

[06:53:47] They said that the septic system, everybody's already spoken about, the traffic, everybody's already spoken about. And my last thought is, if you don't think the church doesn't want to expand on this site, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to share with you.

[06:54:08] Thank you. All right, before you speak, I'm going to call up the next group, and that is 36 to 40. If you are 36 to 40, please get in line so that you may speak.

[06:54:29] All right, sir, you may speak. Good evening. My name's Preston Holt. I live in the Occoquan District off of Occoquan Oaks Lane, just directly across from the proposed site for the special use permit.

[06:54:46] Thank you to the board and for everybody for being here and for the opportunity for your constituents to voice their concerns. So far you've heard unanimous concern for all the negative attributes that would go along with the special use project.

[06:55:02] You're going to continue to hear unanimous support against proposal of the special use permit. Every resident in this area has invested deeply their most valuable investment asset so they can live a certain quality of life in a serene setting. I think it's important to respect that.

[06:55:30] There's been very eloquent arguments addressing every area of concern. 18-foot retaining walls, The runoff, the sewage, simply put, this church is proposed to be the same size as the police station.

[06:55:51] I mean, it's, I just can't believe that we're even, that this has even gotten this far. Please support your constituents in our most valuable investments, and please oppose this special use permit. Thank you for your time. Next speaker, please.

[06:56:11] Hello, my name is Kyle Fritcher. I live on Occoquan Forest Drive, right off of Davis Ford Road. Me and my wife just purchased this place about a year ago, and the reason we purchased it is because of all the reasons everyone's been saying. It's a beautiful property, the neighborhoods are amazing, and a church would just stick out like a sore thumb.

[06:56:34] I could reiterate every problem that everyone's been saying about sewer, about location. It's just, it's nonsense. We're just reiterating the same things. Nobody wants it. It's just, it's the community. Everyone's been speaking. It's the community that doesn't want it.

[06:56:50] The people who live there don't want it. If a church is supposed to serve the community, what point is it if none of us are using it? You're just driving out the neighborhood. It's pointless. But, sorry, I'll try to find something to say that I wrote down.

[06:57:07] In the permit, it says it will add a historical marker, you know, and that supposedly will change everything and make it great and a part of the community. I don't think adding a historical marker or any of these things will change an 18,000 square foot church to make it seem like it belongs with the Bacon Race Cemetery right down the road.

[06:57:33] It doesn't belong. It's fine the way it is. And I understand that that sounds ignorant and unreceptive to change, but we want people to join the community. We love people, but it just doesn't make sense there, and the traffic hazard is too great. And when the church grows, like everyone says, the septic's going to be a problem.

[06:57:52] A mile away, they have to connect to the city sewer. But I believe I'll just keep rambling on. So thank you for your time. Next speaker, please. Hi, my name is Laura Miller.

[06:58:09] I live in Occoquan District off of Davis Board Road. I've been living in Prince William County for almost seven years. And my husband and I moved here because of the rural character and being so close to the Occoquan River and living in the forest, and we absolutely love it.

[06:58:27] I'm here to ask you to oppose the special use permit that you're considering tonight. I strongly oppose it for many reasons that have been articulated so nicely already. Primarily, I'm worried about the traffic.

[06:58:44] For those of us that have to commute into D.C. and through Fairfax, we already are in line down Davis Ford Road to get on Yates Ford Road to go through Clifton and when I think about a project for a church that you know I'm very pro church I want I want people to find a home here in Prince William County the whole purpose of having a church is to grow your family to grow your community and to spread the word and when you're starting on a spot that's too small already in no place to grow it just it breaks your heart

[06:59:21] because it's like you're going to have a lot of problems already expanding too far and you're going to be impacting the community. So I worry a lot about the traffic. I go through Clifton all the time. Yates Board Road is a nightmare. And I would hate for Davis Board Road to go from already being backed up when you're leaving the community, you're backed up in line trying to get out, to like mirroring that kind of traffic.

[06:59:49] I have a young driver that going down my family goes up and down Davis Ford Road probably four times every day more times recently it's not a safe road I'm a bicyclist I can't bike on that road at all there's no shoulder there's no there's blind turns rather the county paid for for bike lanes versus trying to squeeze an eight over 18,000 square feet that's a huge building that's the size of the fire station that's on davisford road close to where hoadley road meets davisford

[07:00:24] road that's just a huge building on the size of a residential lot it's it's just inappropriate for this purpose and i ask you to see it in your heart to please vote no for this special permit and then we can gather together as a community and find this church community a new home that would be that would work that would help them grow and help them assimilate into our community thank you very much next speaker please hello my name is dave ploger i live on

[07:01:03] oakhurst lane in the coles district i'm just one property away from the proposed development uh it's a incredibly beautiful area and i'm very interested in uh me and my wife are very interested in in protecting it and keeping the uh the tranquility and the beauty uh conserved I won't repeat what my neighbors already stated so clearly, but I want to add my voice in strong opposition. This development is not right for the location. It threatens our natural environment, sets a dangerous precedent, and goes against the various zoning protections that safeguard our

[07:01:39] community. I urge you to listen to the overwhelming concerns of the constituents of the community and hope that you please, please, please will vote no. Thank you. Next speaker, please.

[07:01:55] my name is mike aiken i live in riverview estates since 2012 it's been a dream to live here for all the reasons my neighbors have spoken about the main issue i want to talk about and i agree with everything in terms of environmental all that but the the main thing for me is the traffic problems this is a two-lane road which cannot be widened i live right by the bridge so i know very well there's no chance of widening this road another thing that's caught my attention tonight is the projections for the usage of this church. They have heard there's 200 parishioners, and there's really no intent to grow the church. Well, the church should grow. That's the purpose of the

[07:02:33] church, and I hope the church grows, but that's all the more reason why this area cannot accommodate it. Another thing that caught my eye was the daily worships in January, and the septic expert said that 20 to 30 people were projected for those. I'm wondering why the septic expert is the expert on how many people are attending so i'm kind of wondering i'm considering people's motivation in terms of what they're talking about in their presentations um the witness speaking on behalf of the construction project when questioned on the slope said it was the gold standard for a

[07:03:07] building site so again i questioned the motivation behind those opinions um in 2023 i know a 50 page analysis came by very deep came was presented very detailed why this shouldn't happen which was reversed the next year, and I haven't heard any reasons why that reversal was made. The words of the first woman who spoke, I hope you guys really listened to her. She couldn't get approved for 3,000 square foot, and now we're putting in 18,000 square foot here. This makes no sense to me, and I urge you to vote no. Thank you for your time. All right, before the next speaker, I'm

[07:03:45] going to call up our next group, and that is 41 through 45. If you have numbers 41 through 45, Please make your way to the back of the room so that you may speak. Just give me one minute or a couple seconds. Let's see.

[07:04:05] All right. I appreciate your patience. Go ahead. Steve Barfield, Occoquan Magisterial District. I'm a 23-year Air Force veteran, former municipal clerk.

[07:04:22] And before coming over here, I researched ways that the board could terminate public comment because I know it's going to be a long night. In that vein, I should say happy anniversary to the clerk, to the board. It's her anniversary, and she's going to spend the whole thing here, so my apologies.

[07:04:39] I'll keep it short. But you love us. All right, go on. That's not what she told me. I am not going to repeat, rehash everything that's already been said, or I think enough's been said already.

[07:04:54] But in my time as a municipal clerk, and as a parliamentarian, that you learn certain circumstances where if ever there was a time to lay something on the table it's a time like this when there's so many questions about in some circles there are ethical concerns about it others just factual and i would just recommend the board table this until uh another date thank you next speaker please good evening board my name is kevin grimes i live at the north end of davis ford off evans ford road i've been a prince william county resident for almost 40 years owned my house for

[07:05:32] 14 years and i frequent davis ford area aquan area all the time i'm not opposed at all to the church i'm opposed to a 18 000 square foot business being built and the precedent it will set for bringing new business in that area i bought my area because it's residential and i like it that way and i want it to stay that way that's all thank you next speaker please good evening chairwoman and supervisors my name is emron cotter i'm in the aquan district i actually live in the running creek community which is directly adjacent to where this development is going to go

[07:06:12] which it's sandwiched in between two subdivisions running creek and malvern chase and just so you know where i'm situated on the contour map that the planning staff has shown earlier i am one of four home four homes that is directly to the south of this development um the first speaker that spoke here tonight talked about how she was denied and where she ultimately ended up building had to put in a 13-inch pipe for that dry creek. Well, that dry creek actually runs along the side of my property and drains into a retention pond on the rear of my property. Amongst all the other concerns that I have, the primary concern is with the sheet flow, with the impervious surface,

[07:06:50] that massive facility that they're shoehorning onto a small site like that, with all that impervious surface. I was the first home that the builder put in in my community once they took it over from the previous builder that went belly up. I've watched as other homes were built around me by the developer. I am the lowest line of those four lots that is directly behind this property, the proposed property. And just from the development that's happened within my subdivision in the 13 years since I built over there back in 2011, I have constant issues with erosion and sheet flow, my yard getting washed out. It's a soggy mess. The builder is actually working to

[07:07:30] get out of the community, get their bond released. So I'm working with them and their partners to try to fix some of the issues there, the redoing swales and everything else. And then you have this massive proposed development. It's going to be directly to the north of me. My well is located at the northeast end of my property.

[07:07:47] It's on the property line between myself and Val, who spoke here first tonight. So I'm concerned about the erosion, all the work that they're going to be doing, all that cut and fill that they're going to be doing. Someone said 85% at least of that land was going to be cleared.

[07:08:05] If that septic were, God forbid, to fail, I am directly south of that site. It just doesn't work. It's the location. It has nothing to do with the church or anything else. And so that is the primary reason that I'm up here speaking about this.

[07:08:23] I am very concerned about that amongst all the other concerns that people have voiced. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening to the board. thank you very much for this time. My name is Kenyatta Worley. I also live in the Running Creek community, which is the neighborhood directly next to the parcel of land. My concern tonight, not to reiterate everything that's been stated, although very valid, is the noise.

[07:08:57] There's a church on Highway 1 in Cardinal Drive that's been in construction for roughly eight years. I make my living working from home. I'm on calls usually seven to eight hours a day, and my concern is about the construction noise that ensues if you guys approve this project.

[07:09:21] So as a voter, as a resident of this community, I implore you to oppose this special use permit. I ask that you think about the residents that actually live and work in this community, the safety concerns that's been raised, the environmental concerns that's been raised.

[07:09:41] And I ask you to vote in opposition and do the right thing. This parcel of land does not support an 18,000-foot structure. My home sits directly behind where this structure is being proposed to be built. Val, the very first speaker, is my neighbor. So it directly impacts us. It impacts our home values. I cannot imagine living and trying to work through years of construction.

[07:10:14] So again, I ask that you oppose this permit. Thank you for the time. All right, before I get to the next speaker, I wanted to call up the next group, and that is 46 through 50. If you are 46 through 50, please make your way to the microphone in the board chambers at the back of the room.

[07:10:35] that is 46 through 50 all right you may go ahead thank you hello my name is julie morris i'm an aqua in the aqua quan district and i live in aqua quan oaks directly across the street from the proposed site i vehemently oppose the issuance of this permit the information i'm presenting that is in the packets that you are receiving is directly from the current church website effective 2025 it is not conjecture nor what could happen it is actual current state

[07:11:10] Based on what is actually happening now at the existing location, it is reasonable and expected that moving to a new, larger, state-of-the-art facility will only increase the activities and number of people attending these activities. As such, as you have already heard, the septic is a huge concern and has impact on the environment.

[07:11:31] The project defies ORPA protections and threatens residents' water supply. The venue will cause hazmat conditions. According to the person designing the septic, it can only handle one service of 208 people per day. This alone should be reason to deny this permit.

[07:11:50] The church exceeds this on a routine basis as the examples I have provided you demonstrate. Prayer service Monday through Friday 7 p.m. Currently 9 and 11 o'clock service is on Sunday, 21 days nightly at 7 p.m.

[07:12:07] half-night prayers Fridays from 9 p.m. to 12 a.m., every Saturday for a month at 9 a.m., every night Monday through Friday from 7 to 9 p.m., Sunday 10 to 1 p.m. for 30 days. That will blow out the septic system alone.

[07:12:24] The vote you are making today is not just for the proposed number of 208 that they have submitted this application for. It will have lasting negative impact because once this is permitted, the growth and expansion, which is what they clearly intend, will not be stopped.

[07:12:42] A vote of yes will destroy this community and the lives of your current constituents that put you in place to protect their best interests. Despite what was said, they want a parish of over 500 people. They want to grow. They host events called Operation Multiply that is also in your packet.

[07:13:00] The land will not support the current congregation in a safe manner, more or less one with substantial growth. Their website states that the new facility will be worth millions. However, they will bring no revenue to this county. It is very thought-provoking how a church with a parish of 120 people, according to their own reporting, can fund a multi-million dollar project.

[07:13:23] That alone indicates that this project is funded by and intended to be much larger than what is being presented for approval. The original site plan clearly shows the intent of what will actually be. Changing a few key words after hearing opposition arguments is nothing but smoke and mirrors.

[07:13:41] It does not preclude the smart mind from understanding that modifications to words is strictly amassed to appease the opposition minds and appear to show concessions are being made in order to obtain approval. This is word trickery and disguise of actual intent and would be foolish to think otherwise.

[07:13:59] An 18,000-square-foot building will hold 3,000 ADA-compliant theater seats. You need that for 120 people? We kindly ask that you let common sense as well as rule of law prevail here.

[07:14:17] The land was designed and designated for a single-family home, and then it was determined that's not suitable. But yet, somehow, we're going to let six times that size prevail or be built. Vote the will of the people. Vote with integrity. and on behalf of your constituents please vote no to this permit thank you for your time madam chair esteemed members of the board my name is brian pain 22 years united states air force retired

[07:14:53] i live in the aquagon district i am against this variance i live on davis ford road and one of the three properties directly adjacent to the proposed build site what it was brought up before what's that little property on the right hand side right beside the building site that's my house now you know when we bought that house there was a vacant lot on both sides of us when the first of these lots was sold the community did not raise dissent on the house being built because that was what was supposed to go on the lot we welcomed our neighbors nobody's been protesting the other

[07:15:29] houses currently being built off davis ford road or the sale of vacant properties for other houses to be built that is what the properties are zoned for and that's the nature of the neighborhood every property along the davis ford corridor is zoned to allow these houses to be built what my neighbors my community and myself are objecting to is the 18 square foot structure 18 000 square foot structure and the 100 parking spaces that go with it being forced on a four acre site we're objecting to a permanent large sign on the side of the road where somebody's mailbox for a house

[07:16:03] should be we're objecting to the adding of medians and turning lanes to a rural road to accommodate the traffic the proposed facility will bring with over 700 acres of the davis ford road corridor still currently undeveloped. We object to the ingress of a non-housing facility that would provide precedence for further development, not within the current zoning. The lot was for one house and one family for a reason. That has not changed. This structure and its parking does not fit the character of the neighborhood and does not belong in the middle of a neighborhood.

[07:16:41] Please do not force this upon our neighborhood. Thank you for your time. Next speaker, please. Hi, my name is Kara Payne, and thank you for giving me the time to speak. I'm in the Aquagon district and I am in the property that is directly adjacent right next to the property. I am opposed to this church being built because as a young driver I barely know how to drive as it is but adding more to block my view to get out of my driveway makes it really hard to you know get

[07:17:15] to school and get to work and I think that adding a big place where is built for a home and not a church or a residential area is very bad for the community. I think that the environmental issues that everyone has brought up is a very big issue, especially as the hill in my backyard also leads back into erosion. I'm very against this idea of a residential area being built.

[07:17:47] Thank you for your time. Next speaker, please. Good evening, members of the board and all workers present here tonight so late. My name is Laura Hofler and I live right on Davis 4 Road and I have for the last eight years. Honestly, we would all rather be home tonight in our peaceful neighborhood, but something has happened. Someone applied for a permit to build something that should not be built in the first place there. You have heard all the reasons why already. This whole

[07:18:27] thing does not work. It is a location issue. I asked the board to see the great concern of our neighbors and the divisiveness and anger that this creates. It is not a secret that our neighborhood is highly organized, as you have already witnessed, and will continue to pursue every legal venue to stop this process. I would be, it would be much easier for everyone tonight

[07:18:57] to gracefully decline and move on. Thank you, everyone. Next speaker. My name is Greg Ayers, and I live in the Octagon District. I want to bring up three issues that I don't think have and adequately addressed. First of all, Davis Ford is a Virginia byway. Can you speak a little bit more into the mic? I can move there. Yeah, you can do that too. All right, thank you. Building the new turn lanes onto Davis Ford, it's going to be expensive to build, but it's also going to be

[07:19:33] expensive to maintain. The SUP does not commit the church to maintain those turn lanes. As a result, Those are going to be costs that are going to be transferred to Prince William County. That's unfair and inappropriate.

[07:19:50] Next, the proposed access to the property is a twisty-turny type of path. And putting ambulances, putting fire trucks that will obviously be needed to service the congregation onto that and roaring through a parking lot is going to be dangerous.

[07:20:10] and we need to take a look at that, and that whole piece needs to be revised and rethought. Finally, I want you to use your imagination for a bit. Suppose that you approve this SUP. Think about then the construction vehicles that are going to be on Davis Ford for probably about a year. The tractor trailers, the tractors, the haulers, the dump trucks that are going to block the Davis Ford access moving through. So what you're going to do is you're going to have people

[07:20:48] who traditionally transit that particular roadway not being able to get to work or get to grocery stores or get to recreations. So we need to make sure that in fact the church then pays for the police support for the entire construction period of the church and that needs to be for the the entire period to make sure that we have a safe passageway in in our roadway thank you all right

[07:21:24] before i allow the next speaker i wanted to go get up the next group and that is 51 through 55 so if you are in groups 51 through 55 please come into board chambers and get in line at the back front of the mic is that it 51 through 55 all right if we only have a couple people we all more come in more company all right ma'am you may go ahead and speak yes i'd like can you hear me

[07:21:59] okay yes we can thank you i'd like to speak for the hoa across the street the it's the Occoquan Oaks HOA section one and three. And so I'd like a couple extra minutes if I could. So then you will get five minutes. Thank you. I'm speaking to you as a contractor, a general contractor. I've done a lot of custom homes and commercial work. In fact, I built Mike Vanderpool's house. So that's an interesting project, isn't it? So I want to speak for the point there's three bedroom house that would be,

[07:22:35] was supposed to be put on that lot, would disturb about 5,000 square feet, and they are disrupting 122,000 square feet. So I thought that might be an interesting comparison to see how much disturbing is happening right there. So I'm worried about the watershed, which has not had a chance to see this situation yet. I've spoke to them recently, and there's many, many things that they're going to have to look at that's going to make this a very costly, imposing project for the church.

[07:23:13] I made some notes here, if you don't mind. I've worked with the county for probably 25 years on this ORPA situation, and they've been very protective of the water system, and they're still protecting it, and I'm hoping they will continue to protect it.

[07:23:32] No matter what they take away with the zoning, they still have to protect that water. Now, another general contractor that you might know in the area and myself have recently talked about the cost of this project. And separately, we both decided it's about $8 to $9 million.

[07:23:52] And the shock to me is that it's only going to cover and give service to 208 people. And I don't understand how they can afford to put such a huge investment in such a small situation.

[07:24:09] And also, one more thing, they're impacting 2,400 families, and plus maybe two or three per household. That's an awful lot of people to be painfully disrupted forever.

[07:24:25] So thank you for your time. I just want to quickly say the people who should be standing in the back are the ones who are slated to speak in the groups 51 through 55 and numbers before that. And so if you are, make sure you're in that group because I don't want to have people standing if they're not in queue to speak.

[07:24:42] All right. Thank you. Here we go. Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the board. My name is Heather Rice, and I'm a resident in the Occoquan District. I'm also a homeowner in the Hampton Grove development. I own one acre, and I'm also a veteran.

[07:24:59] And the whole purpose of me being here is because when I bought my property, I did take a lot of time within Prince William County to take a look at what I wanted to buy. I value my privacy.

[07:25:15] I value my peace, my security. I spent a lot of time and money in Prince William County in order to attain this. my neighbors also own at least one two or four acres of land and each of those have a single family home on it so anybody that has purchased along davis ford corridor has sought an environment away from traffic congestion as time goes on building development has increased and this

[07:25:51] plot is not designed for commercial development these are the challenges regarding the rains the draining that are already existing besides that there's little chance of the parishioners that are living and attending the church are living actually in the area of the church i don't know if anybody's ever done a survey to see who's actually in this area that's actually going to live here but that would have been helpful right now if there's if the building is being built

[07:26:26] we were going to have to also maintain the security of it have they even thought about the security and taking care of the the property itself the residents are going to be having to do the watching another thing too is churches just don't build themselves to not grow i do want to thank supervisor bode he did stand up to this before in november 2024 he said he he's voting a no on the project and pledged to communicate very strongly for very compelling reasons the

[07:27:01] reasons partly and probably most of it is the application is flawed number one the application didn't disclose accurate data regarding the actual current usage patterns and growth plans they didn't have a great septic system in place and there's still questions about it number two the project is really too large for a four acre parcel of land. 80% of that parcel is going to be buildings and parking and that's going to be in violation of Occoquan Reservoir Protection Area

[07:27:32] ORPA and also the Environmental Resource Area, yes, ERA protections. So the zoning is really questionable here. Number three, the project is really inappropriate for the low density residential community and it does not align to the semi-rural neighborhood regarding it i thank you for your time thank you for your service and please consider no thank you next speaker please hello my name is patrice householder i live 56 56 06 davis ford road so i am about eighth of a mile

[07:28:10] from the site um in talking with county officials we just keep hearing the repeated refrain the applicant has done everything we asked they have because the county has not asked them to do the one thing that would make this project appropriate turn it into a single family home and by the way it would have to be a single family home smaller than 3 000 square feet apparently since valstanton couldn't build one of those there the community has just made it perfectly clear from the first interaction with the applicant then until this project is the three-bedroom home that this land perks for it's not appropriate for the parcel of land for the neighborhood or for the road

[07:28:45] supervisor rhodi has joined with us to inform the applicant from the start that it's gonna it's likely to be denied because of the harm it poses to the residents of the Davis Ford, Bacon Race, and Yates Ford corridors because it's too large and because it's too intense for the lot. It's clear from Supervisor Bode's immediate reaction to discourage the client from continuing with the application that Prince William County also officially recognized the misfit from the beginning. Furthermore, Prince William County set the standard for review of the Transformation Temple Project when it determined in 2017 that a 3,000 square foot house was too large and too environmentally destructive for this parcel but now the extreme harm from this project

[07:29:24] should not devolve to the residents of this community because the applicant kept going regardless of consistent consistent community opposition pushback from community organizations and clear statements from supervisor bode that the project was inappropriate it's obviously impossible to know whether this applicant simply pushed ahead with you know over the objections and warnings or whether there were entities within the county government that Kind of strung them along a little bit with piecemeal to-do lists, leading them to believe that insignificant alterations would somehow make this project appropriate.

[07:29:57] In either case, the owners and residents of the 2,400 impacted properties along Davis Ford Road and Bacon Race and Yates Ford, those are not the people who should have to pay the terrible price for whatever happened and how this went along. By determining that a 3,000-square-foot home was inappropriate for the site, The county basically eliminated any possible grounds for turning around now and approving a project six times that size and leaving the community to suffer the harms, the resultant harms from that.

[07:30:26] Casting a yes vote for this project effectively informs residents of this community that you're willing to turn your backs on thousands of your constituents. The flagrant nature of that offense is brought into especially sharp relief by what happened, the disparity between the county's treatment of Val Stanton and its treatment of Transformation Temple.

[07:30:43] That's unacceptable. We will not be the sacrifice for either the county's lack of concern for its residents or for the applicant's refusal to take no for an answer from the community and from Supervisor Bodie. And we won't accept the unconscionable infliction of harm on us for blame that falls either with the applicant or with aspects of the county process.

[07:31:03] Fortunately, the Virginia State Supreme Court paved the way recently for us to challenge egregiously harmful land use approvals, and this would certainly qualify. Next speaker, please. Thank you. Good evening.

[07:31:19] My name is Daniel Jarl. I live on the Akwan Oaks Lane Road. I've lived there for about 10 years, and I oppose this permit. I'm not going to reiterate what everybody else has said so far, but I will bring up what the first speaker brought up. She was denied a 3,000-square-foot building, but now we're looking at an 18,000-foot square building.

[07:31:39] It doesn't make sense. Thank you. Next speaker. Hi, my name is Dr. Patty Bright. I'm a resident of the Akwan District. I work in environmental health, and I work very closely with a number of members of the Fairfax County Water Authority.

[07:31:55] And so I've had some discussions with them, and I find it very interesting that we haven't heard from them here, right? Have the board heard from them? Do we know what they're thinking? I can tell you what they're thinking. I asked why they haven't spoken up. They told me that their policies are not allowed to comment on individual projects.

[07:32:11] But I've spoken to each of those staff members individually, and they are strongly, strongly opposed. They are very concerned about the impacts on the watershed. The Occoquan Reservoir serves 1.2 million people with drinking water. The vast majority of those are in Prince William County.

[07:32:29] Fairfax County Water Authority staff, they don't have a dog in this fight, right? They're not worried about traffic. They're not worried about public safety. They're worried about the watershed, and I think we need to find out why. That's number one. Number two, I will tell you that after one of the earlier meetings, I was out in the parking lot. Pastor came out, and we started talking, and I said to him, you know, I'm really confused.

[07:32:48] why did you buy this property if you didn't think you could use it for if it wasn't so inappropriately? I said, you know, we invest in real estate. I would never buy a property that I didn't know or feel pretty certain I could use for that purpose that I intended. And he said to me, well, he's kind of shrugged his shoulders. Well, you know, we're a small community church, which is what his lawyer said earlier today. And, you know, we just figured we could, you know, we could sign a few papers and we could get that special use permit. Well, you know what? They're not a small community church. At first I thought, wow, these folks are really naive. They have developed 1150 churches in Europe, Canada, and the United States, and Africa.

[07:33:25] They aren't naive. They knew they had the lawyers, and they knew they had the money to push this through. Several days after I had that conversation with him, he gave a sermon. One of our neighbors found that sermon. It was online, and a number of us got an opportunity to look at it. I really wish I had downloaded it so I could have showed you a clip from that tonight, but unfortunately, once they found out that we found out about it, they took it down. During that sermon, as someone mentioned earlier, he called us sinners and fools. Yes, fools. If we thought we were going to stop

[07:33:56] this project. Fools if we believe in environmental protection. Fools if we believe that appropriate zoning should be adhered to. Fools if we believe in good governance and if we believe that our elected officials are going to support us. I hope that you will vote no and prove him wrong. Thank you all right before we go on to you sir let me call up our next group and that is 56 to 60

[07:34:26] if you have numbers 90 i'm sorry what 90 i'm sorry let me go ahead and call people i'm sorry if you are 56 through 60 please come to the back in the board chambers all right sir and if you've already spoken i'd appreciate if you have a seat if you have spoken or if you are not one of the I'd appreciate it if you have a seat.

[07:35:06] That's okay. You can get it. There's a seat right there. All right. You may go, sir. Thank you, board members. My name is Richard Bright. I'm in the Ockipon District. Speak up. I'm sorry. Your wife did an excellent job. She did. She is telling me.

[07:35:22] I'm challenging you now. Okay. Yes, she is telling me that I have to speak tonight. So I'm here to voice my opinion. I'm trying to liven it up a little bit here. Everybody's got valid points, and I don't want to reiterate them.

[07:35:39] What I'd like to say as an investor in properties in Prince William County, I've done residential and commercial real estate. And the realtors that we deal with, they say there are three things that you need to look for in these properties.

[07:36:00] And that's three things, whether it's real, whether it's commercial, or whether it's residential. And that is location, I think we know, location, and location. So location for residential is, part of it is being among similar properties and close to all the amenities that are like schools and shopping and such.

[07:36:28] So this corridor is perfect for residential. Now, when you think about commercial, I can't think of a reason why a commercial property would be there for location, location, or location.

[07:36:44] It is not close to traffic that they need, although we're talking about traffic in a residential, but it's not the kind of traffic that you want for commercial property. So why are they motivated to move there?

[07:37:04] I'm thinking it's the price of the property. So I think that's my two cents worth that's keeping me up late tonight. And thank you for your time. And I vehemently oppose this proposal.

[07:37:24] Next speaker, please. Good evening, Honorable Board of County Supervisors. My name is Nana, and I've lived and voted in the Coles Magisterial District for the past 18 years.

[07:37:40] The positive impact the church has had on me goes beyond spiritual to emotional to mental and professional. I joined the church as an ordinary member, and as a result of the impact the church has had on me, I've grown spiritually to be ordained as a minister of the gospel and currently a senior associate minister.

[07:37:57] The professional impact the church has had on me has enabled me to transition from being an employee with GDIT to owning my own accounting firm in Prince William County and to be an employer in Prince William County. As a member of this project's committee, I've been present in meetings with our prospective neighbors. We've listened, gone far above and beyond, and have incorporated their feedback we've received into our plans. In the course of this evening's public comments, you've heard opposing comments based on feelings and inaccurate information from the opposition, Such as we feel the intensity of use is too much for the lot size.

[07:38:37] We feel the building design isn't compatible with the community. We feel the land is susceptible to erosion. We feel traffic will be adversely affected. Honorable Board of County Supervisors, we have confidence in you that you make your decisions based on facts, not the feelings and inaccurate information the opposition has presented tonight.

[07:38:57] Honorable Board of County Supervisors, the facts are before you. The facts are on our side. No matter the opposing comments you hear, please remember, the county and state engineers have no reservations about our project. VDOT approves our plan, which negates traffic concerns.

[07:39:16] VDH approves our plan, which also nullifies the septic concerns. Please believe the experts. Believe the facts. You are in a very important seat to make a crucial decision tonight. Respectfully, you have heard from those with no qualification and expertise in certain fields of engineering, twisting the facts to suit their narrative.

[07:39:38] Those facts, those with facts must be listened to are the county engineers and engineers who have worked on this project. We've interviewed several engineers and we chose the best. Ron Schools has over 40 years of experience, Ton Verney over 40 years, Wayne Savage over 15 years, and our stormwater management engineer over 64 years.

[07:40:01] These are the aspects with the facts and the ones to listen to. Board of County Supervisors, when Transmission Temple is built on davis fort road which i'm prayerfully and joyfully looking forward to it'll be a place where christ will be preached souls will be saved and lives will be made better consider the future consider the lives that will be empowered through the name of jesus consider the difference the church can make in our county i humbly urge you to be on the side of those who helped make history for the lord jesus christ and our county and not on the side of those who helped stop history from being made. Please vote yes to approve. Thank you and God bless you. Next speaker, please.

[07:40:43] Good evening, respected board of supervisors. I'm Priscilla from Occoquan, a cybersecurity specialist who stands before you today, not just as a lead singer at Transformation Temple, but as a living testament to the transformative power of this church community. When I first worked through the doors of our church. I was struggling with personal challenges that seem insurmountable. But in this community, I found more than just a place of worship. I found a family.

[07:41:17] The love, support, and guidance I've received in my church have been nothing short of life-changing. Transformation Temple isn't just a building project for us. It is a dream to create a sanctuary where more people can experience the same life-altering support I've been blessed with.

[07:41:35] I want to talk to you about some of the benevolent activities our church precipitated in during the COVID-19 pandemic. I saw how our church supported community members who were out of work to the tune of $50,000. Our church donates to hurricane relief funds, and we make annual donations to several shelters through our Lend at Hand initiative.

[07:42:01] These are the types of good our church does. I have a personal experience. When my mom's home caught fire, the church sponsored a GoFundMe to raise funds to make it possible for me to travel thousands of miles away to support her and be with her.

[07:42:18] This shows that this is a church that is very mindful of its fellow citizens. Our pastor and the leadership, I can assure you, are so consensuous. They would not have continued with this project if they felt it was not going to work.

[07:42:34] The fact that they have led us this far shows that they believe in it and we also believe in it. I humbly ask for your support. I implore you to support this project because every week I witness miracles. I see lives being transformed, families being restored, and a community growing stronger.

[07:42:55] With your approval, we can expand our capacity to serve, to heal, and to uplift even more of our neighbors in need. Imagine the stories of transformation that will uphold in this new place. Stories like mine and countless others yet to be written.

[07:43:11] Your support wouldn't just be approving a permit. It will be helping build a place of transformation and open doors of hopes for so many. From the bottom of my heart, I ask you to please recommend approval for Transformation Temple. Thank you for your time and for considering this profound impact this decision could have on our community's future.

[07:43:35] Thank you and God bless you. Next speaker, please. Good evening. My name is Rita and I live here in Akokon. I'm a registered nurse. My family of five also live and vote here.

[07:43:51] My dad who served in the United States Army for over 25 years and fought in Iraq war and in Afghanistan for our beloved country, also live here in Akakuan. One of the values he has stored in me is, in life, when you see a group of people doing a good thing, you support them. You don't discourage them. Rather, you encourage them, especially when what they are doing is a godly thing, not illegal or immoral. Look at us, young professionals,

[07:44:30] law-abiding citizens, purposeful and God-fearing people who are working out our salvation with godly fear and reverence so we can make heaven. Don't discourage us, please encourage us.

[07:44:52] Hebrews 10.24 says, let us encourage those doing good. Therefore, we have met county requirements and board. Both the county staff and the planning commissioners have recommended approval. This is a good thing. It's a God thing. Please don't be hostile towards a God thing. Don't reject a godly

[07:45:23] mission. Support it and please vote yes. I leave you with my last scripture in Galatians 6 verse 10. With every opportunity that life presents to you to do good, such as this evening, seize the opportunity to show compassion and be kind, and yes, to do good.

[07:45:51] God bless you. Next speaker, please. Hello. Good evening. I'm Susanna. I live in Manassas in the Coast Magistral District. Can you adjust the mic? You're just a little hard to hear.

[07:46:07] Thank you. I am a cybersecurity engineer by profession. I want to begin by saying to everyone here that Jesus loves you. He was persecuted, crucified, and died on the cross to demonstrate his love for each and every one of us.

[07:46:25] I love the Lord. My heart breaks for how people who claim to be Christians will treat fellow Christians in Christ's church in such a way. It's a shame, but we know that with God all things are possible. I love my church.

[07:46:41] My children were Christians in this church. We followed the goodness of the Lord through this church. I have a college student right now as my daughter. I don't look at, yeah, my jeans. But my daughter went through this church, and now is in Virginia Tech.

[07:47:00] Brilliant. And this church has raised her as who she is right now, that she can stand tall in Virginia Tech, and everybody will know that, indeed, she's a Christian. And she walks, and that is a plurifigure. We've been hearing a lot about the environmental resource, and I would like to draw the attention of the board to the comment made by the retired arborist, Julie Flanagan.

[07:47:26] When she was questioned by the commissioner, Moses Ned, Julie told the planning committee on October 9, 2024, that the Department of Public Works has reviewed the church application and is satisfied with it.

[07:47:42] She continued and also mentioned that the environmental resource on the site, although the areas that has been combined of steep sloped with highly erodible soils occurring on the same time, it was not an issue for them.

[07:48:00] Because in that comprehensive plan, where is the talk that says that taking care of steep slopes with highly erodible soils is talked about in conjunction with the perennial streams or intermittent streams?

[07:48:17] Please hear what the reputable Arborist said. There is no perennial streams or intermittent streams on the site. And since the comprehensive plan has no policy that says you must protect the environmental resource when it is not associated with the perennial streams or intermittent streams, we did not see it as a big deal.

[07:48:43] Furthermore, it is really disgusting to hear that people will use cunning statement. Half the parcel of the land is an environmental resource area. The parcel is 4.3 acres, and the environmental resource area accounts for just a little over an acre.

[07:49:03] This is not half the parcel. To end with, I will say this. I teach in the children's ministry, and we've raised so many children. And even now, we have more children to raise. Thank you very much. Before the next speaker, I'm going to call up the next group.

[07:49:18] If you are 61 through 65, again, that is 61 through 65, please come into board chambers and line up at the back near the microphone. I just want to give people a little chance to get settled.

[07:49:40] 61 through 65. All right, sir, you may go. Good evening, honorable board of supervisors. My name is Reverend Clarence D. Roberts.

[07:49:57] I am a longtime resident, 25 years, of Prince William County. My family lives here, my children were rare here, and I have a deep commitment to this community. I do appreciate and respect the concerns raised and believe in an open dialogue.

[07:50:19] My goal tonight is to clarify, reassure, and demonstrate how this church will be an asset to this county, bringing lasting benefits to the residents. We've heard all manner of negativity, but let's look at the benefits of what a church will present to this community.

[07:50:42] The church is always and should always be a pillar of strength, not a source of division. A church is more than a building. There's a beacon of hope, service, and transformation. It strengthens families, nurtures moral values, provides a safe and uplifting space for all.

[07:51:04] Permit me to quote scripture Proverbs 11 and verse 11 says, At the blessings of the upright, a city is exalted. Empowerment temple will mentor youth, foster community engagement, and provide a foundation for stronger families.

[07:51:21] It will not impose beliefs, but will welcome and support people from all backgrounds. Additionally, this church is committed to addressing critical social needs through food assistance, youth mentorship, as was explained, leadership training, mental health and addiction recovery support, senior and veteran support.

[07:51:46] The church is not just about worship. It's about building lives, restoring hope, and uplifting the community. One of the earlier speakers said, there have been all manner of misinformation. Let's trust the experts, what they have said, and not what people feel or think.

[07:52:04] It is very important that we rely on facts, and we pray that you will rely on facts tonight to make the best judgment. In my final closing, a vision for hope, love, and lasting impact.

[07:52:20] The Empowerment Temple is committed to being a long-term partner in Prince William County. They will collaborate with local organizations and leaders to promote economic and social progress. They will listen, they will adapt, and be good neighbors to ensure the harmony in this community.

[07:52:39] We ask for your support, not just to build a church, but to build a stronger, more unified community. As I close in John 13, verse 34-35, the Bible says, It's a command, a new command I give you, that you love one another.

[07:52:56] Like a garden, when we plant seeds of faith, love, and service, we will reap a harvest of peace, prosperity, and unity. Let's build something that will bless generations to come. Thank you, and God bless you. Next speaker, please. Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the board, for the opportunity to speak.

[07:53:19] My name is Caitlin Starks, and I'm a resident in the Occoquan Forest neighborhood in the Occoquan District. I oppose this proposal for the special use permit, and I'll be brief because I agree with the numerous other safety, traffic, and environmental concerns that have already been raised.

[07:53:35] I moved here two years ago, and I quickly learned that this is a community that cares deeply about the well-being of its neighbors and its environment. I'm here tonight because my neighbors have all passionately expressed their opposition to this project with good reason and urged other neighbors to come and support and be here tonight and emphasize the importance of speaking out here today.

[07:53:59] After reading the analysis of the proposal myself, I share all of the previous speakers' concerns about the proposal's many inconsistencies with the comprehensive land use plan for this community and the project's incompatibility with the specific land in question.

[07:54:16] And as every other resident of the area immediately surrounding the land has asked you tonight, please reject this proposal. Thank you for your consideration. Next speaker, please. Hi, good evening.

[07:54:34] My name is Lauren Lockstamfer. I am also a member, a resident of the Occoquan Forest Association, and I'm a member of the Occoquan District. I am in opposition to this for all the reasons that everybody else has brought up tonight. We've had a number of, what, 58-plus speakers from the community that came up and spoke before I heard one person say they lived in the Occoquan District and actually supported this project.

[07:54:59] To me, that's a little bit surprising that we didn't hear anybody else that lives on Davis Ford, that lives bordering to this, that is supporting this project. More than 1,400 people signed a petition in opposition that live and are going to be impacted by this.

[07:55:16] That's significantly more than the number of members of this congregation. Please take the opinions and the feelings and the desires of your constituents into consideration tonight when you make your vote. Thank you.

[07:55:35] Next speaker. Good evening, Board of County Supervisors. My name is Kwasi Ademakon, and I am a principal cybersecurity engineer. My family of five and I live and vote-- Wait, real quickly, just to note to everyone, please state your magisterial district or where you generally live.

[07:55:54] Okay. My family of five and I live and vote in Gainesville, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak before you tonight. I stand here in strong support of the Special Use Permit for Transformation Temple International.

[07:56:10] Over the years, this church has been a pillar in our family, profoundly impacting just not only my life but my entire family. There has been a claim that this project constitutes an oversized development. However, according to the county's own codes, this is not the case.

[07:56:30] Let's look at the facts. Number one, the minimum lot size required by the county for this type of development is 2 acres. Our lot size is 4.3 acres, more than twice the required minimum. Number two, the lot coverage.

[07:56:47] The maximum allowable lot coverage for a project like this is 85% of the total lot size. However, our project will cover only 26.5% of the lot, far below the maximum permitted coverage. In fact, our lot coverage is less than 68% of what the county requires.

[07:57:08] Number three, the actual land use. Out of the 4.3 acres, we are utilizing only 1.12 acres, which is significantly less than what is permitted. In conclusion, I will say that the facts speak for themselves.

[07:57:25] This project is well within the county guidelines and does not constitute an oversized development. I sincerely appreciate your time and consideration, and I urge you to support this vision by approving the Special Use Permit for Transformation Temple International.

[07:57:43] thank you very much for your time and may the lord bless you all right before the next speaker i'm going to call up the next group um so 66 through 70 if you are numbers 66 through 70 please make your way to the back of the room inside the board chambers i would like to request five minutes as the representative of savedavisford.org that is hold on one second i want

[07:58:15] to get more people, but that is not an HOA or 501c3. I respect it, but is there anyone else from 66 to 70? All right, you may go. My name is Ben Householder. I live at 5606 Davis Ford Road in the Occoquan District. When the Virginia Department of Health approved Transformation Temple's proposed septic system, the applicant never provided its current facility usage data at the Springfield location, which is that of a commercial facility.

[07:58:48] More than 1,000 gallons per day and therefore requires separate permitting. When this publicly available information was reported to VDH by residents of this community, VDH explained that, quote, we can only issue a permit based on information provided by the owner and system designer at the time of permit issuance.

[07:59:07] As another official put it, quote, VDH's hands are tied at the moment. It is plainly dishonest to use this VDH approval as evidence that the septic plans are adequate. That approval was based on the applicant's intentional exclusion of vital facts that would have changed the outcome of that approval, and VDH officials approved the plan only because they are limited to the information provided by the applicant.

[07:59:32] In addition to that, I'd like to address a lot of the comments that have been made by supporters of the church. We appreciate how much they love their church. Most of us go to churches as well that we love equally, and we appreciate that desire to have a new church home. We actually even want them in our community.

[07:59:48] As many of the previous speakers have said, no one here doesn't want this church in our community, in our county. Some of the people speaking against this church might have even gone to the church if it was located in a location that doesn't actively damage them and their property. In fact, you know, like like many of the speakers have said already, we have actively introduced to them options for other places they could have moved in.

[08:00:12] We would have loved to have them be part of our community five years ago when they could have immediately moved into several much less expensive locations that other churches had vacated. There are vacant church buildings large enough for their organization where they could have moved in and become a part of our community and probably a beloved part of our community five years ago without any of this fighting being done.

[08:00:34] none of us would have opposed that. The problem is that this parcel is not suitable for this land. And given the refusal of this county government to allow Val, one of our neighbors, to build her home on this same piece of property, it is grossly hypocritical to allow this size of a facility on the exact same parcel of land that you decided was too small for a single family home. We're left with no other conclusion here than to assume that organizations with enough money can walk into this county and get exceptions to rules that are strictly enforced on the residents and voters

[08:01:09] of this county. We urge you to enforce your rules evenly and fairly. Enforce them the same on residents as you do on outside groups and churches who want to move in. Enforce them the same on people who bring money into this county and people who don't have money with which to influence this process. Thank you very much. Next speaker, please. Good evening, Madam Chair and the Prince William County Board of Supervisors. I am Nate Wilborn. I live in the Running Creek community off of David

[08:01:45] Ford Road. I'm a God-fearing man. This rejection, these rejections aren't about the church and it's not about its congregation. I'm the HOA president of Running Creek and many of the residents who spoke here earlier tonight are from Running Creek. The energetic speaker that was here earlier that had to be kicked out was from running creek so as you see the residents in our small 25 home

[08:02:19] community are troubled by are troubled by what's going on by the project and potential impacts of the of their lifelong investments which is which are their homes they feel critical systems will be impacted and affected with the temple's current capacity and its capacity to grow over

[08:02:46] time. The critical word is growth, and mostly all churches grow. Critical systems such as septic, sewage, water, and drainage. And the question is, will Prince William County have the capacity to monitor these systems during the growth of the church.

[08:03:18] I would hope that Prince William County would look closely and monitor the growth and potential of these critical systems that would change our way of life, as well as the potential growth of traffic congestion and safety concerns on David Ford Road.

[08:03:40] I sincerely request that you vote no on this special use project, and I thank you very much for your time. All right. Before the next speaker, I would like to call up 71 through 75. If you're number 71 through 75, please make your way to board chambers and stand at the back of the room in the microphone. And again, to everyone, state your name, magisterial district, or where you generally reside. We need that for the public record. All right, ma'am, you may speak.

[08:04:15] Thank you. My name is Judy Sweet, and I live almost directly across where the ingress egress will be for the church. I live in Occoquan Oaks. I also am the president of Citizens for Davis Ford Quality of Life and would request that the board permit me five minutes for speaking.

[08:04:37] That is for HOAs. I'm sorry. Oh, it's Occoquan Oaks HOA, but I'm not speaking on behalf of the HOA, but I'm president of Citizens for Davis Ford Quality. So it's three minutes. I'm sorry. There are some petitions that were brought here tonight that we have to provide you with.

[08:05:04] And on the front of each of the binders, you'll see a map that outlines the 18 communities that are being impacted by and also supported by the signatures that are in this book of petitions.

[08:05:21] This is the petition list that was, well, it was 1,450, but we have gotten even more since then that are not in the completed in with that book. but certainly can provide those to the board if need be.

[08:05:45] So along with these petitions, of course, we are asking that you deny this SUP. These particular petitions, these are all verified Prince William County residents, and they were brought together because the people wanted to show their commitment to and their communication of our vigorous and united opposition to the SUP provided and proposed tonight.

[08:06:16] These petitions were collected before midnight on Saturday, March 1st. So we've had another three days to add more to that list, as I said earlier. Additional petitions will continue to come in.

[08:06:32] We actually had gotten some as we came into the building this evening. And so there are a lot of people in the community that have continued to join the opposition to the construction of the 18,416-square-foot building on the four-acre lot of this entirely low-dood city residential corridor.

[08:06:51] These petitions represent, you know, the fact that we clearly and emphatically express our unified opposition to this project, as we have very much from the beginning. So we are asking that you all, as our representatives and those who can be the ones that will, you know, properly handle this project on behalf of us and the fact that we cannot sustain this project in this particular area of the county.

[08:07:29] As a mother of a police officer here, and also the mother of a fire department, you know, fire and rescue, this is really a concerning project for me personally because of the fact that, you know, within the paperwork, we see that the sheriff's department or the police department, law enforcement, will be called in to ask for monitoring traffic.

[08:07:58] This project is right where this 45-degree curve is. Thank you, ma'am. Next speaker, please. I'm sorry, next speaker. Hello, everyone. My name is Harriet Dixon, and I'm a member of Transformational Temple.

[08:08:20] Before I begin, I would like to say a huge thank you to the Board of County Supervisors for taking time to be here and being thorough with this process, as well as my church leadership and everyone here present. Transformational Temple, as I prefer to call my family, has been the cornerstone for many, many other military families in our congregation.

[08:08:41] I'm a military spouse with three young children, and my husband is constantly away due to the nature of his assignment. He gets to come home twice a year, two weeks maximum. Ten years ago, I just relocated from North Dakota to Prince William County because my husband was deployed to Afghanistan.

[08:09:01] I had visited many churches by one of the church family. I was invited to church by another member, and that is how I met my long-lost college friend, now turned sister, in our current church building. At the time, I was heavily pregnant with my first child. A high-risk pregnancy, no job.

[08:09:17] My husband was stationed in Afghanistan, couldn't come home. This friend and the family whom I reconnected with through the church has been my backbone in the constant absence of my husband. For God and country, my husband and I always say, my husband was permitted to be present for the birth.

[08:09:36] He arrived on Monday. Our son was born on a Thursday. By Sunday, he had to leave. I was left with a newborn that did not come with a manual. My support system, again, was within our church walls, my best friend, from giving me their car for hospital appointments and being present during and after my child was born.

[08:09:56] Her husband, also a church member, has a mentoring and coaching program through which they freely offered me the opportunity to be part of. Out of it, I now have a career in cybersecurity. The same can be said for many of our church members who also now have lucrative careers. All these great things happen within the walls of our church.

[08:10:14] My young children rely heavily of the family we have created within the walls of our church. I call Transformational Temple my family because within its walls, individuals with stories like mine exist. I would like to also add that research by the University of Nebraska in 2006, and by ResearchGate in 2024 concluded that the presence of a church in a neighborhood increases property values.

[08:10:37] Anyone who tells you otherwise is respectfully mistaken. There is no research and data that has revealed anything contrary to what I just said. This permit is not to build just a church, but a place to connect and change the lives of people.

[08:10:53] Because a strong family constitutes a great society. The benefits of supporting this application far away is the decision to not support it. I hope you vote in support of this good cause. Thank you, everyone. Before you go, please state where you generally reside, because I don't think you did that.

[08:11:10] Occoquan. Thank you so very much. Again, everyone, it's very important. This is for the public record. Do we, I know we have you, ma'am, are you also, okay, all right, thank you. So you may go. Good evening, Madam Chairman, honored members of the board.

[08:11:26] My name is Michael Houle, and I am a resident of Occoquan in the managerial district of Occoquan. Thanks for sticking with us tonight. I know it's been a long one. I'll keep my comments short. I didn't have anything prepared, but I just wanted to come as a member of the community to voice my opinion on the special use permit, a longtime listener, first time caller.

[08:11:49] When I ended my service in the Marine Corps, I decided to choose to live in Northern Virginia without anybody here, just a background in the military and understanding the opportunity existed in Northern Virginia. And I decided to stay because of that opportunity and my desire to be a member of this community. As I started to move further away from D.C. and further south than Virginia, one of the things that I looked for was peace and serenity. When I was younger,

[08:12:28] I was told to love God is to love the gifts that he has bestowed upon us, nature being one of those gifts that I've always appreciated the most. So when I was looking to put down roots and I convinced my girlfriend, who's now my wife, to move from Seattle to come out here and join me to live together and to start a family. We look for an area that had that peace and serenity. We were fortunate enough in some of the worst times to find real estate during COVID, this neighborhood of Davis Ford Road. We really have found a village, which we hope to raise our family in.

[08:13:07] I don't envy any of the positions that you have to balance progress with the preservation of peace and serenity that we have here in Prince William County. So I know it's not an easy decision. I think you've heard a lot of technical reasons why the approval of the special use permit is going to be a challenge.

[08:13:33] But I ask you to also think about your constituents who've created a village and find peace from their jobs, their commutes, and everything else that they have to deal with during their days to go back to a quiet residential community where they can find their own peace and their own relationship with God.

[08:13:51] Now, I hope the church and the congregation joins the rest of the church's temples and mosques here in the county and what they do for the community. And I honestly look forward, based on what they said here tonight, that they can be an excellent resource for the community.

[08:14:11] I just challenge whether their location and placement in a residential neighborhood is good for everybody. So, again, I empathize with the decision you have to make, but I feel that our community has an expectation of peace, and I don't look to see that challenge.

[08:14:35] Appreciate it. Thank you. All right, before the next speaker, I want to call. Now, I think I've called, but I want to make sure 71 through 75, and if I've called you guys, let's go with 76 to 80. Some of these speakers are dropping off.

[08:14:52] so if you are 71 to 75 let's see we don't have i'm just waiting to see i apologize i just want to see if anyone else is coming out all right i would also like to do so we don't have very many people 76 to 80 hi deirdre that's my pilates teacher one of them all right 76 through 80 all

[08:15:29] right ma'am you may speak good evening board of county supervisors my name is muriel i live in Occoquan, my new family of five and extended family of 15 leave and vote here. I'm here to express my strong support for my church building project. I have been a member of the church for 17 years. I've also been a member of the building committee and have been fortunate to know much about the land and this project. I've heard comments such as the church does not pay taxes

[08:16:08] and our presence will put unfair burden on taxpayers. I would like to correct that. For the record, we do not depend on taxpayers' money to operate. We love our church and love God so much that we give to his cause.

[08:16:29] So souls will be saved and lives will be transformed through the saving power of Jesus. Also, we pay thousands of dollars annually on property taxes on the land. Please do not give in to this misinformation that we do not pay taxes and will be a burden on taxpayer.

[08:16:53] That said, this is a great church that has a great pastor, great people, and a great building that will beautify Davis Ford Road. I beg of you, in the name of the Lord Jesus, to vote yes.

[08:17:11] Thank you for your time and consideration. God bless you. Next speaker, please. Good evening, board members, and thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Stephen Alcocorn.

[08:17:28] I proudly served in the United States Navy as a corpsman providing medical care and helping save lives both in the U.S. and while on deployment. That experience instilled in me a deep sense of service, compassion and commitment to the well-being of others, values that continue to shape my life, my involvement in our community.

[08:17:51] I now work for the Department of Defense as an information system security manager, and I'm here to express my support for my church building project. Transformation Temple Church has been an incredibly meaningful part of my life, offering not only a place of worship, but also a genuine sense of community and belonging.

[08:18:13] Through this unwavering support, opportunities for service, and commitment to spiritual growth, the church has profoundly shaped my faith journey. It stands as a source of hope, unity, and encouragement, touching the lives of many, including my own.

[08:18:30] I'm truly grateful for the positive influence it continues to have, inspiring me to grow, give back, and work in purpose. I understand there are concerns that, you know, the presence of the church on David Ford Road might endanger the lives of children boarding and exiting school buses.

[08:18:51] However, an important question arises, what school buses operate on Sunday mornings? The answer is clear, none. There is no scenario in which the church's presence would pose a risk to children's safety in this regard.

[08:19:07] On the contrary, the church's presence would enrich the lives of children by fostering a sense of reverence and spiritual grounding, positively influencing their hearts, minds, and spirits. Furthermore, this project will have no adverse effect on traffic.

[08:19:25] The Virginia Department of Transport has reviewed and supported our plan, as does the Prince William County Department of Transportation. With this in mind, we respectfully ask for your support and a yes vote to approve our application.

[08:19:42] We believe this will benefit the community and county as a whole, and we sincerely appreciate your thoughtful consideration. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Before I have you, I'm going to call up our next group. That is 81 through 85. If you are numbers 81 through 85, please make your way to board chambers in the back by the microphone.

[08:20:03] And as a reminder to everyone, state your name and where you generally reside. Good evening, members of the Board of County Supervisors. My name is Abby, a member of Transformation Temple International Church and a resident of the Okokwan District.

[08:20:20] I'm honored to speak today and appreciate your dedication to guiding our community toward positive change. I hold a B.S. in economics and have 11 years of experience in cybersecurity, specializing in information security management, risk management, advanced security practices, and ethical hacking.

[08:20:42] The church has positively impacted my life, inspiring me to give back to the community. I fully support our church's vision for this project. Honorable Supervisors, our church's activities will boost local businesses and contribute to the community's long-term economic growth.

[08:21:05] Our church will be a vital hub, enhancing community and individual well-being. In our meetings and outreach in the community, we've been told on several occasions, and I quote, we don't want you here. Issues of traffic, septic system, etc. are just being used as a decoy and an excuse. The main reason we are having opposition is because we may be told severally that we don't want you here. Well, in America, you don't get to deny a person, a business, or a religious

[08:21:42] institution their constitutional right because of their race or ethnicity or religious beliefs. Board of County Supervisors, I humbly submit to you that you vote yes to Transformation Temple International.

[08:22:02] Any other vote is respectfully trumping on our rights. Vote yes to God. Vote yes to Transformation Temple. I am encouraged by your attentiveness and I'm at ease that you will do what is lawful and godly to God and to his church.

[08:22:23] Thank you all and God bless you. Next speaker, please. Good evening, Madam Chair Jefferson, Vice Chair Bailey, and esteemed members of the board.

[08:22:39] Ladies and gentlemen, I am Elam, Manassas, Coast District. I am a registered nurse with a master's degree in health services administration, a compassionate nurse helping save lives and educating patients on how to stay healthy.

[08:22:57] I am here to express my unwavering support for my church, International Central Gospel Church, to construct Transformation Temple. I have been a member of the church for 15 years, and I have first witnessed the positive impact that the church had had on our community.

[08:23:18] ICGC is more than a place of worship. It is a cornerstone of our community that provides invaluable services to individuals and families. Under the leadership of our pastor, Dr. Sadiq Arthur, The church has consistently demonstrated a commitment to improving the lives of its congregants and the wide community through various outreach programs, educational initiatives, and support activities and support services.

[08:23:53] One of the most impactful programs offered by ICGC is the benevolent help that are offered to families who might otherwise be struggling financially. The church also runs scholarship for college students, of which two of my children have been beneficiaries.

[08:24:16] Additionally, the church offers counseling and support for those dealing with personal and family issues, ensuring that they have access to emotional, psychological, and spiritual support they need.

[08:24:31] There is an inclusive and compassionate atmosphere in our church. Madam Chair, I heard someone who was opposing our application says that, and I quote, the project would degrade water quality in streams, feeding the Ocoquan Reserve protection area, and harm groundwater recharge for residents relying on wells, unquote.

[08:24:59] I am happy to bring to your attention that the church's civil engineering disagrees. His research shows that runoff from the church has to travel nearly three miles before reaching the reservoir. Our project endangers nothing.

[08:25:16] The proposed construction aligns with current zoning laws and law use plans. We are building the church for God where lives can be transformed for the betterment of our community and nation. We kindly request the board's approver to enable us to serve the community through our new church facility.

[08:25:39] Thank you. Next speaker, please.

[08:25:50] Hello, Board of County Supervisors, and good evening to all. My name is Mel, and I have been a resident of Prince William County all my life. My Magisterial District is Brunsville. I am currently a freshman at a top 25 university as a Clark Scholar. My father is Dr. Sadek Arthur, senior pastor of Transformation Temple.

[08:26:09] I was born into the church, born again through my church. baptized through my church, learned the importance of honesty and service to humanity through my church, and I've seen the miracles and mysteries of God through my church. My life changed the moment I made the conscious decision to accept Christ and I am better for it, so my undying support for this building project can go without saying. Our First Amendment constitutional right states that we are entitled to freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Within the right to freedom of religion is freedom to practice anywhere, including the Aquacuan Magisterial District.

[08:26:39] Our form of practice is spreading the gospel and love of Jesus Christ, and we can do this through having our own place of worship that people can come to and that we can say we own and not rent. Eight years ago, our project was launched, and about five years ago, this application was made. In the scripture we use as motivation is Nehemiah 2.20. The God of heaven himself will prosper us, therefore we, his servants, will arise and build. We are just mere human beings whose lives were changed through the gospel of Jesus Christ and are doing our best to heed to his word and build his house. In America, freedom of religion and freedom to worship is enshrined in our laws.

[08:27:10] Our founders feared that a day like this will come where people's religious freedoms will be violated either by who they worship or how they look. That is what is being done to us here. The First Amendment protects us against what is happening here. The First Amendment prevents the government from interfering with a person's religious beliefs.

[08:27:26] Also, the Fourteenth Amendment extends the protections of the First Amendment to state and local governments. You are the local government, and the First Amendment prevents you from violating our rights to worship where we want. This is where we want to worship, and as long as we are not breaking any laws and have met every single code of the local government, The Constitution bars you from infringing on our right to freely build a house of worship.

[08:27:46] Our application has met county codes and laws. It is not the American way of life to infringe upon a people's rights and freedom to worship where they so desire. Since we've met county codes, and this is the land we desire to build and worship on, and since the Constitution protects this right of ours, you have to vote yes to affirm this right.

[08:28:02] Board of Supervisors, just as God said to Pharaoh, let my people go so they can be free to worship me, I also say to you, give us your approval so that we can be free to go and build Transformation Temple on Davis Ford Road and be free to worship our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ there. This matter is so near and dear to my heart that I left campus just to come and make my statement and thereafter return.

[08:28:23] My heart was so sad, and when I entered this room trying to respectfully get a seat and saw a gentleman, Shove, we could even say body check, my dad, Pastor Arthur, attempting to prevent him from getting a seat tonight. It was truly, truly disheartening, especially since we've come in peace to state our case.

[08:28:39] My generation is the future, and I know that now is the time for me to start using my voice to advocate for these matters of importance. Thank you for your time. And just quickly, I'm not sure if you mentioned, but you're Gainesville, correct? Brentsville. Brentsville. Okay, thank you. All right. Next speaker. Good evening, distinguished board of county supervisors.

[08:29:00] My name is Nadine, a federal systems auditor by profession who resides in the Nyapsco Magisterial District. I am here to speak in support of my church special use permit. I strongly know and believe that my church deserves this permit. We've worked hard, shown diligence, dedication to our vision, and demonstrated a never-given-up attitude.

[08:29:22] We believe we are called for this. Majority of our members are Prince William County residents. This is one of the reasons why we decided to move the church here. We live here, pay taxes here, and vote here. The scripture tells us in Lamentations 33 verse 35 to 36 that do not deny the justice that is due a person and do not subvert the approval that pertains to the cause of God.

[08:29:47] Board of County Supervisors, I humbly implore you by the mercies of God to not be the type of board that showed no reverence to God, that you subverted his course. By the mercies of God, please vote yes and approve this application. This is about God. It is not about man.

[08:30:05] This is about divinity. It is not about humanity. Please don't submit God's church and do not deny his church the justice we deserve. May your hearts, minds, and spirits be guided by Hebrews 10.31, which says, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[08:30:24] May God's blessings abound towards you and your descendants because you considered God in your hearts and did the right thing by voting to approve the application of God's church. Thank you for your time and consideration. All right, before the next speaker, I'm going to call up the next group of five.

[08:30:42] That is 91 through 95. If you are speakers 91 through 95, please come into the board chambers. Make your way to the back of the room by the microphone. 91 through 95. Give me another minute. I just want people to.

[08:31:01] All right. Thank you, everyone. Again, when you speak, your name and your magisterial district. Thank you. I have a few more people who are looking to leave. Good evening, Board of Supervisors. My name is.

[08:31:17] Hold on. I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. All right. Or actually, what you can do, because I don't want to have too many people standing up, if you feel that I've skipped a group, if you guys can come after the next group that I call, because I don't want to have too many people standing.

[08:31:42] Did I skip? 85 through 90. 85 through 90. I have gotten that, and I did have some people from that group. I also, I don't know if people were outside, but if you go ahead and just have a seat, I will call you guys.

[08:31:59] I just don't want to have too many people standing in the back congregating. who do you want up here? The group that I called is 91 through 95. I will go ahead and what group did you say? 85 or 86 through 90. All right. I will get you guys after this group. Go ahead.

[08:32:24] You may go ahead. Make sure that you speak clearly into the mic so that we can hear you and always state your name and the magisterial district where you generally reside. Okay. Good evening, Board of County Supervisors. My name is Grace and I am a veteran and a proud resident of Ocacon. I am here to express my full support for the Transformation Temple Project at 5451 Davis Ford Road. I have personally experienced the positive impact at this church in my life and witnessed its influence on the lives of many others. Life after the military service brings its own set of challenges, and finding a strong support system can make all the

[08:33:02] difference. This church has been a place of refuge, encouragement, and a spiritual renewal, offering a sense of community that extends well beyond its words. It is not merely a place of worship, but a foundation of hope, providing guidance, mentorship, and emotional support to individuals and families alike.

[08:33:20] The establishment of this new church will strengthen the fabric of our community, creating a space where people can grow in faith, find healing, and support one another. It will serve as a hub for outreach, mentorship, and transformational programs that uplift lives and instill values that benefit the entire community.

[08:33:40] I understand there have been concerns regarding the septic system. However, I want to emphasize the following facts. Engineers and experts have confirmed that the system is fully adequate. County engineers have endorsed it as a great system. State engineers have reviewed and approved the proposed septic system.

[08:33:58] The Virginia Department of Health has issued the permit for installation. These concerns have been thoroughly addressed and resolved. Both the county and application state agencies fully support this project, and the septic system is no longer a point of contention. This project is about more than just a building.

[08:34:16] It is about fulfilling God's purpose. It is a project rooted in faith, service, and community. And it should be embraced, not opposed. God is in it. We stand with it. I firmly believe this project will have a lasting positive impact and bring benefits to both current and future generations.

[08:34:35] I respectfully urge you to vote in favor of this project and allow it to serve and uplift our community for generations to come. Thank you for your time and consideration. Next speaker. Good evening, Board of Counties, Madam Chairperson and members in the auditorium and outside.

[08:35:00] My name is Roland Amala-Jareffo. I've been in the Coast District Manassas since 2017. two summers ago. My daughter graduated from Osmond High School, and oh, she's not in the bench runner, but I did vote for Ms. Vega, just to put that out there. I work as an assistant living administrator, an executive director. I attend a master's degree in healthcare administration, and I would reference why I'm saying this now, not to appease anybody. I'm here today to express my full support for my church building and the special use permit on Davis Ford Road.

[08:35:38] I want to touch on stormwater management. We fully are committed to installing the proper, as required by the county, of a 10-year system. But for some reason now, the goalpost has been shifting, asking us for 50 years.

[08:35:56] The reason why I highlighted my credentials in the beginning as administrator, in my experience since 2014, I've been part of developing senior living communities in Northern Virginia, Richmond, and now in Charlottesville, housing anywhere between 150 residents to 600 residents, 60 staff, 175 staff.

[08:36:20] And all of these buildings, just to also hint on the suspect system that's been talked about, these are buildings that house these residents seven days a week, 365. and our church is not even the size of this, and we have gone above and beyond what is required.

[08:36:40] There's a lot of feelings that has been said. I need you guys to look at facts. Just like my office, I deal with lives of our seniors, and my decisions every day is working with government agencies like Department of Social Service, APS, the health department, and I rely on their facts to make decisions, not feelings of families or my staff that I manage.

[08:37:03] So I implore this board to please take a look at that as we proceed tonight. I want to also talk about what my church would do to this community. It's going to be a pillar of support. We provide a safe space, we foster social cohesion, and we've been a good neighbor.

[08:37:23] We've gone, met with our neighbors, and we have talked to them. We have made adjustments just to be good neighbors. I'm getting emotional because there was a time when Christianity meant something. Even in the early history of the church, when the Romans were not certain about Christians, the fact that you were Christians, you were a good steward of society.

[08:37:45] And our pastor, our leadership, and our engineers have done and gone above and beyond to be good steward. And the neighbor that talked about the land, just to fact check that, we're the only organization that has purchased that land. It's never been sold to nobody.

[08:38:02] It's on record. You guys could look that up. So please vote and support our permit. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening. My name is Dr. Bright Fleckle, a professional psychologist, a resident of Woodbridge, and a member of Prince William County CSB board from my organization.

[08:38:30] Woodbridge is a home to me and my family. I raised my three children here. They attended middle school, high schools, before proceeding to college, and now adults in the community.

[08:38:48] God is real, and one of the things as humans we shouldn't do is to take him for granted. The church is a blessing to the community and to all of us.

[08:39:07] We are a Christ-loving church. We just want to build a church where we worship God. We are not the type of people that those opposing this godly project assume.

[08:39:26] Our focus, faith, and hope are built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. Our Lord faced opposition even when he was here on earth. But today, he is the hope of glory we are all enjoying.

[08:39:46] We are facing similar oppositions today as our Lord did. My honorable board members, The beginning of every good thing has obstacles and oppositions. However, after the hurdle of the obstacles and the oppositions are cleared, many are the beneficiaries of the very thing that was opposed.

[08:40:15] Finally, I want to humbly remind you, my board members, of the fact that you must consider the approval of this special use permit based on criteria. And the criteria are as follows.

[08:40:36] Satisfying the requirement of the planning office, which we have done and fulfilled. Two, meeting county codes. We are nothing less of that, as had been said by the engineers.

[08:40:52] And three, proposing to build according to law. We have done and satisfied all these conditions. We have crossed every T and dotted every I. What is left is for you, honorable members, to grant that approval so that we can move on to the next stage of our church building project.

[08:41:21] Please approve the permit, and God bless each and every one of you. Next speaker, please. Thank you. Good evening, County Board of Supervisors and fellow citizens.

[08:41:37] My name is Grace. I live in the Okokwan district. Okokwan is a home to me and my family. I am a registered nurse, BSN, and I also hold a bachelor's degree in education. I currently work with the Department of Medical Assistance through an MCO as a clinical case manager.

[08:41:59] I am a member of International Central Gospel Church. I am here this evening to express my support for my church's application for special use permits for our proposed church building on 5451 Davidsford Road. As a backdrop, Woodbridge has been a home for me and my family for several years.

[08:42:20] My children grew up here in the Occoquan, attended Woodbridge Middle School and Garfield Senior High School before moving on to various universities. I would like to add, we are all registered voters in this community and exercise our civic rights diligently.

[08:42:42] Board of County Supervisors, the impact my church has had on my life as an individual and my family's life and the community at large cannot be overemphasized. Those churches raising leaders, shaping visions, influencing society through Christ.

[08:43:00] Our church's presence in this community will help make lives better. I have heard some people say incorrectly that there is 100% community opposition to this project. I wish to correct that. There are many, many of my neighbors who know that this project is not about man, but God.

[08:43:20] There are families who live on the Davis Ford Road Corridor who support our project. During the first Zoom meeting, the representatives of my church had with Midgo, a neighbor on the Davis Ford Road Corridor said, and I quote, I would rather have a church close to my home than 7-Eleven, unquote.

[08:43:41] That is someone who supports our church. Two other neighbors expressed their support in the chat during the meeting and they were shut down, Feeling intimidated and fearing backlash from some of our neighbors, these supporters are afraid to step forward.

[08:43:58] However, they send us emails and direct messages on Facebook expressing their unwavering support to our project. Board of County Supervisors, what is important right now is not whether we have 100% community support or opposition, but the question should be, has the church met every county requirement?

[08:44:21] And the answer is resounding yes. Concluding, I would like to say that this is a very good course and should be supported. This is not about man, but God. It is about the opportunity for many to be led to Christ, the Savior and Lord of the world.

[08:44:38] Thank you so much for voting yes to our proposal. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening, everyone. My name is Obed, and I'm proud to call the Woodbridge my home. I work as a cybersecurity analyst, and for the past 14 years, I have been a dedicated member of our church and currently serving as a youth pastor.

[08:45:04] In this role, I strive to support and guide the young generation as they grow their faith in Christ Jesus. I am pleased to share that our application has never been denied. It has, however, been voted on once.

[08:45:22] In October 9, 2024, the Planning Commission recommended for its approval. Due to the high turnover in the Planning Office, our application has undergone review by about six different planners, each of whom provided valuable feedback that we have diligently incorporated into our plans.

[08:45:48] This process has required us to revise and resubmit our application. But we remain committed to seeing it through. I am happy to report that the Planning Office is recommending approval and the Planning Commission has also recommended approval.

[08:46:11] We believe that it is now time for the board to lend its approval as well. Every county agency, including the fire rescue, police, and transportation, has given their endorsement for our project.

[08:46:29] The final approval we seek to move forward comes from you, the board. We are confident that the establishment of our church will serve as a vital resource for our community, fostering unity, and support for all.

[08:46:49] For many years, our church has been a source of comfort. Is it time? I apologize, sir, but next speaker. Time. No, it wasn't time yet. Please. I'm sorry. okay so i'm going to manually put on my time i'm going to go ahead i'm just going to say two minutes

[08:47:28] all right one minute all right all right one minute thank you or are you fit are you do you have any more to say just about two sentences all right get those two sentences bro all right where was i so for many years our church has been a source of comfort and assistance to countless families. Being politicians, I'm sure each of you has faced a series of challenges

[08:48:01] over the years in your campaign for office. And by God's grace, you have consistently worked to serve our community. Today, it will be a tremendous blessing if you could extend that support to us by granting approval for a special use permit application. May God bless you all.

[08:48:24] amen all right next speaker i will also time it on my phone good evening my name is dr osari and i live in the coast magisteria district with my family i am a transportation engineer by profession and i currently consult for the federal highway administration i would like to thank the board of county supervisors for the opportunity to express my total support for the construction of an edifice for transformation temple as a transportation engineer i would like to focus my submission on the traffic impacts of this project on Davis Ford Road. To examine the traffic

[08:49:04] impacts of any project, the two key issues to keep an eye on are safety and mobility. But before I get to that, I would like to mention that I'm not a stranger to Davis Ford Road. I drive on it every other day when taking my daughter to school or my son to his speech appointment. As a matter of fact, I drove on it just yesterday. In terms of safety, I've heard a lot of speakers on the other side paint a very gloomy picture about the safety situation and liken that section of Davis Ford Road to a death trap.

[08:49:34] Yes, Davis Ford Road has some safety concerns, just like any other road facility. However, the death trap tag, which has been amplified by the opposition, is not supported by data. From available VDOT crash data, the section of Davis Ford Road within the immediate vicinity of this project has experienced two fatal or severe crashes within the past five years.

[08:49:56] The remaining five crashes within the same time period are minor in nature and mostly involve vehicle runoffs or rear-end crashes without any driver or pedestrian injury. Per Federal Highway Safety Guidance, these numbers do not support a high crash location. The current safety situation will not be exacerbated by this project because of the fewer number of vehicles that will be added to the traffic mix.

[08:50:18] If we were to double the annual average daily traffic on Davis Ford Road, then I would agree that it will impact safety. But we are not doing that. Per our projected additional traffic of 114 vehicles on Sundays, vehicle headways will be around 32 seconds, meaning one vehicle passes every 32 seconds.

[08:50:37] The only way additional vehicles will significantly affect safety is if it results in vehicle headways less than two seconds. Clearly, this project will not adversely affect safety. In addition, the presence of off-duty police officers to control traffic on Sundays will further lessen the crash risk.

[08:50:57] For mobility, the key question to ask is, will this project cause extreme traffic congestion on the roadway? Currently, the speed limit is 45 miles per hour and vehicles operate in free-flow conditions, especially on Sundays. Considering the relatively fewer number of additional vehicles that will be introduced in the traffic mix, the current traffic flow conditions should not be negatively impacted.

[08:51:16] In addition, the provision of stacking lanes and tapers will ensure that turning traffic do not cause congestion. In summary, the Transformation Temple project will not have any adverse impacts on the Davis-Ford Road. Therefore, I pray that you all vote yes for this project.

[08:51:34] Thank you and God bless you all. Next speaker, please. Honorable Board of County Supervisors, my name is Bert, live in Manassas Coal District.

[08:51:52] I am here to express my support for my church. I have been a member of the church for 10 years and I am one of the associate pastors. I migrated from a Francophone country to the greatest nation in the world, America. I came here speaking little English.

[08:52:09] This great country has offered me so many opportunities that I stand before you today as a licensed nurse practitioner and currently pursuing my PhD in nursing.

[08:52:26] The church has been a blessing to me because the messages that I have been preaching by our pastor keep inspiring me to not limit God and not limit myself. I took the step of faith and took the limit off, and that changed the story of my life.

[08:52:45] This is a church, a good church, that you should welcome to your community. I also want to correct the misinformation that this is a commercial building. This is not a commercial building. It is a church building. The United States Department of Commerce defined a commercial building as a place used for business purposes.

[08:53:07] Among the list of commercial buildings, a church is not listed. A church building, on the other hand, is a place of worship for a Christian congregation. There is a difference. A conventional building, because it is a place of business, attracts traffic during business hour.

[08:53:27] A church building only attracts traffic during times of worship. In our case, it is only on Sunday morning when there will be a few more cars driving on David Ford Road to the church. It is also on Sunday morning when there is practically no traffic.

[08:53:46] That is the time of our church service. Any argument that we will make traffic worse, with all due respect, it is not a valid argument. Let Deuteronomy 6.18 guide your heart and decision tonight. The verse says, do what is right, do what is good in God's sight, and you will live long.

[08:54:08] May God bless you all. Thank you. All right, before our next speaker, 86 to 90. 86 to 90. All right, you may speak.

[08:54:36] Good evening, everyone. I hope everyone is doing well. Please speak into the microphone. Sure. Yeah, move it up so we can hear you. And again, name and where you generally reside. My name is Merrim. I live and vote in the Brentsville District with my family of five.

[08:54:52] I'd like to start by acknowledging the Board of Supervisors in Attendance and expressing my gratitude for the opportunity to speak today in support of the SUP for My Church, Transformation Temple. I have called Prince William County home for the past 16 years. I went to Buckland Mills Elementary School, Ronald Reagan Middle School, and Battlefield High School.

[08:55:11] During those years, I actively volunteered, competed in track and field and volleyball at state championships, and participated in county and district honor choirs, all while excelling academically. I represented this county with pride and it's time to advocate for an institution near to my heart.

[08:55:28] I am pursuing a medical career, and my sense of purpose and drive to serve others was shaped in our house of worship. Proverbs 22, verse 6 says, train up a child in the way that he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it. I thank my parents for raising me in the church because it shaped me into who I am today.

[08:55:45] I have fond memories during my adolescent years, reading announcements on stage, delivering sermons during youth week, and leading praise and worship. Those early experiences taught me to overcome fear and exude confidence. The biblical value of compassion instilled in me guides my interactions with patients, peers, and everyone I meet. I'm confident that every member of our congregation would say the same. Anyone who enters our ministry leaves better than when they arrived. As an aspiring physician scientist who has conducted, presented, and published research, I have developed a passion for investigation. Research is performed for

[08:56:21] experts to issue their opinion, conclusion, and facts on problems. In the U.S., impossible is what we do best. My church hired and worked with reputable soil engineers, stormwater management engineers, civil engineers, traffic engineers, and independent engineers who have put their credibility and professional licenses on the line to endorse our plan and produce pristine plans and blueprints. The great prophet Isaiah asked in the Bible, whose report would you believe?

[08:56:51] Will you believe the reports of the experts or the statements of amateurs, the engineers or the non-engineers? Board of Supervisors, I implore you to believe the experts and side with them, side with the planning office, and side with the planning commissioners. Our project should be approved because it represents an investment into our community.

[08:57:10] Moreover, Jesus is here in every aspect of our ministry. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good evening, Board of County Supervisors. Hello, I'm Anne.

[08:57:26] I'm a resident of the Coles District. Both of my children go to school in Prince William County. I've been an active member of ICGC for over 16 years, and I'm wholeheartedly in support of our church's projects because I believe without any reservation whatsoever that our presence will have a very positive impact in the community.

[08:57:47] Change is often difficult because as humans, we are naturally wired to see comfort in familiarity and routine. This makes it difficult for people to step outside of their comfort zones to adapt to something new. The thought of change triggers anxiety and discomfort in people, so we understand how our prospective neighbors are feeling.

[08:58:10] Trust me, we totally understand. You've driven past Davis Ford Road for years, and all you've seen on our land is trees. However, as owners of the land, this is what we want to put on the land, a church building. It's change that's hard for you. We get it, but please understand and accept this change. It was John F. Kennedy who said, change is the law of life, and those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future. It was Charles Kettering who said,

[08:58:46] The world hates change, yet it's the only thing that has brought us progress. Change is good. Please embrace it. God's church is a symbol of spiritual light to the spirits of a neighborhood.

[08:59:03] Why would you resist spiritual light? We are simply a group of people who love people, Love the Lord Jesus Christ, and we want to spread his love and shine his light in this community and the world at large.

[08:59:19] We are family-oriented, friendly, and well-educated professionals. You will love our presence here because you will find us to be a loving and peaceful church group who are full of the light of God. I encourage the Board of County Supervisors to fully support our project and vote yes to approve the application of God's Church, because I believe that our presence would absolutely make a difference in the community.

[08:59:49] Thank you very much for your time, attention, and consideration. God bless you. I apologize. What is the magisterial district you're from? Coles. Okay. Yes. All right. Before we get to you, sir, I want to call up our next group, and that is 96 to 100. so if you are 96 to 100 please make your way to the back of the room inside of board chambers line up and speak let me give people a moment to move around get settled and that is 96 through

[09:00:19] 100 all right all right i thought i was going to be last nope speaking to the microphone want to make sure we hear you sure thing can you hear me now i can hear you okay great uh so uh county supervisors madam chair um i'll be brief i just want to touch name and district i'm sorry my name is siegfried obel doble for real i've lived at my house on davis ford for 35 years all right thank

[09:00:53] you okay um so yeah i'd like to expand on something that uh supervisor vega uh touched on and that's the water line um when we replaced the treatment plant with the water line we could have made that any size we wanted to, but we kept it small on purpose, and that was to avoid and discourage overdevelopment. And so we had given enough capacity for Occoquan Forest, and a little bit of extra for the Davis Ford Corridor, and that was for emergency use in case, you know,

[09:01:28] wells failed, and we had to tie into that. So the fact that you had to ask twice kind of tells me that the church is going to use up all that extra capacity. And that would then be a violation of the agreement we had between the Davis Ford Corridor, the county, the Water Authority, and Occoquan Forest.

[09:01:56] And so that kind of makes me think of the movie The Empire Strikes Back. And I'm thinking of the scene where Darth Vader is really leaning hard on Billy Dee Williams. He says, I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further.

[09:02:15] So please don't be Darth Vader. Vote no. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Hi, good evening. My name is Deidre Coppedge. I live in Occoquan District and have owned property in the county since 1984.

[09:02:34] I am a proud employee of the Prince William County Parks and Rec Department. I sincerely and very strongly urge the county board to not approve this project.

[09:02:50] For all of the reasons that have been spoken about, the traffic, and I have to drive that on Davis Ford often enough to know that the traffic is only going to get worse, especially if there are going to be this many people.

[09:03:11] that we found out just this evening that there will be other services besides Sunday. There will be multiple services during the week, during times that we didn't know about before. Additionally, the degradation to the environment, the runoff I was on the LOCA Civic Association Zoom call two days before the horrible storm that happened in North Carolina and Asheville so all of these

[09:03:51] plans that were made for 10 year 20 year and even 50 year storm damage have been wiped out and that will happen here too as the weather gets worse and worse with people cutting down more and more trees, the trees absorb water, etc. But I am also strongly against

[09:04:21] the incursion of church on government. Many of the members of the church have not spoken about how the church is going to actually affect their neighbors.

[09:04:42] And yes, people have feelings, and they have property and money and all kinds of relationships in their community. And I don't think that has been addressed by the members that have spoken this evening, the members of the church that have spoken this evening.

[09:05:02] It's a bit of a wanton disregard for what will happen to the people who own property adjacent to the proposed project. Additionally, nobody has said that they disregard or do not want the church as it is.

[09:05:23] Churches have their place. It just does not belong in this place. And for that reason, please, please do not approve this project. Thank you. Next speaker, please.

[09:05:41] I'm sorry, you're looking for Elmo? Do you use Elmo? The projector? Yes. Other way, maybe.

[09:06:02] Okay. Other way. Can you? Beautiful. Thank you. Virginia Seastrunk, Adequan District. I personally understand the congregation more than you think, and I admire the determination.

[09:06:25] Coming here after work, leaving young children at home, you're building a church. And 10 years ago, I stood in your shoes. We fought hard to build our church in Potomac among multimillion dollar houses, large lots. And like you, we believe that our neighbors did not understand our vision, especially that most of us are immigrants in the country.

[09:06:47] We prayed, believing that we were bringing God to the presence of this land. But, well, different. Unlike you, the location was appropriate. our church was on the road with fewer curves, more lanes, larger homes, and no reservoir, and we did not disturb much land. However, in the hindsight, with wisdom, I personally regret not considering more the impact of so many people going in and out of our building and to the

[09:07:21] community. I see pictures here with all of you that sing and you are vibrant and passionate. You have a congregation that's dancing and is supporting your faith. But did you ever think about the noise? This area is serene. All you can hear in here, it's birds. And this is what makes it special. You will host workshops and festivals and gathering to pay for the church

[09:07:59] and support yourself which is absolutely normal we do the same thing but i have five acres when i i'm not sure if you see very well but it's a printout when i host a party of 70 people prince william county asks me for a special permit you will not have to have a permit you're not only asking for a special permit to be in there but this is going to cover you every single time you bring experts in here and tell us everything is fine but they told us you know round up was

[09:08:35] fine too you know and you're painting us you're you're painting your pastor as being a person of faith but there are so many reports from your own congregation about his behavior about what he has done in the past there are many more than this one and you paint us as bad christians but we only ask you to choose one land that is just two miles down the road on the same on Davis Ford Road it is just one mile and a half sorry here and this is the land this is the land here and this

[09:09:15] is what you're choosing in here we just ask you to move a little bit further down the road and it's okay it's going to unite us as a community thank you next speaker please Thank you for this opportunity to voice my concerns on this project.

[09:09:40] My name is Sarah Kane, and I live in Occoquan Forest, five minutes away from this parcel. My family chose this area for its rural feel, and you would be letting your constituents down to approve this project. This area will suffer from such a large structure, and it will permanently change the rural residential life of Davis Ford.

[09:09:58] Traffic problems will increase in addition to environmental damages. Additionally, I am concerned about the light pollution at night. If they have large parking lots, will there be floodlights above them? This could also damage the quality of life around them. You've been asked by some of the Temple Congregation to ignore what the residents think and feel and just to listen to what their experts say.

[09:10:19] But this is our community they wish to join. There have been many other sites recommended which would better fit them. In conclusion, this site is not right for a building of this size. I urge you to vote no on the special use permit. All right. Before I get to you, Mr. Arthur, 101 through 103, if you can make your way into the board chambers.

[09:10:47] And if there's anyone else who has signed up to speak, who has a card, but missed your spot, please come in and line up at the back. All right, Mr. Arthur, the floor is yours. Please, may I have five minutes? Yes, you may.

[09:11:03] Thank you very much. So my name is Sadek Arthur, and good evening, Board of County Supervisors, and good evening to everyone. I am the pastor of this wonderful congregation. Some have to leave because they have younger children.

[09:11:21] They're a loving group of people. It's just a privilege and an honor to pastor them and to be their leader. I also want to acknowledge my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, that he will find me worthy to suffer for him. I was born a Muslim but whilst I was in my mother's womb he knew me that one day he has to separate me from my father's religion and convert me into Christianity. Didn't know that this was what was in for me. So Lord Jesus I thank you. It's a privilege definitely to serve you to know your word and to teach your people your word and it's even a greater honor that you find us a group

[09:11:58] of immigrants who came here simply for a living and that you will call us into your kingdom that we will be a people to build you a church. The Lord wants us to build him a church and he wants us to build it on 5441 Davis Ford Road. Definitely you would wonder that why that place? Why not any other place? I'll take a moment to address that. But firstly, I heard someone say that I have called them sinners or fools. Please, I wouldn't spend even an ounce of explanation on it. Sadiq Arthur

[09:12:30] would never say that and I don't speak like that so please don't consider that not only that I've been called several things I've been called that then someone pushed me trying to find a seat you know I have acted you know in a civil Christian way we've been also told I mean you were shown pictures and shown things you know of what what I don't even know what was shown there but Nonetheless, I will address any other person, but would simply say that this accusation of being called fools or sinners, I have never said. The sentence, this is the first time I'm even hearing

[09:13:09] the sinner's part. So things are being made up, and that is not true. We are being told that we will limit ourselves and cannot grow. May I please submit to you humbly that where we are now, there was a time where we grew we grew to over 600 I split the church into four and planted three satellite churches out of it and kept a quarter so a mega church is not my vision a mega church is not what I feel God called me to do but church planting is the call of my call so our vision is simply the establishment of model new testament Christians and churches so as long as I'm planting

[09:13:49] churches for the Lord Jesus Christ no matter how small it is whether it's a small size church medium size or what have you, I'm okay. So numbers is not my drive. So this is going to be a 208 seater building. We are 120 people now. Church history shows that when you move, you lose a percentage of the people because of proximity or distance to the new place. So definitely the numbers we have now, those that live far, definitely some will move on. But even should we bring all the 120 it's 208 seats we have about 80 people more to add to it and if we are growing a place

[09:14:26] i will plant satellite churches i've done it before some of the pastors that i raised planted churches for were here and i send them out didn't send them out empty-handed rented a place for them bought instruments for them so that they will have a place to worship this is what we stand for so don't be bothered about the growth aspect we are not a group of fools like we've been talked about that we have services every day in july yes we do and 21 days in january yes you we do but may i tell you most of them are on are virtually and the ones that we know will attract a lot of crowd we move

[09:15:04] them outside so like this past july we had our 30-day fasting and prayer the major activity is on Sunday morning. I knew that we were going to out, I mean, overcrowd the place. Sense and common sense told us that don't use the place. We went to Falls Church Marriott and used their conference room. Their whole month spent tens of thousands of dollars simply to gather there. So people are speaking. I see this group of people who are riffraffs, don't have common sense, can't think, won't obey the law, you know, please, we would. We do it where we are. We don't overcrowd the place

[09:15:42] and remove our services when we know it's a special service and we'll have crowd outside the building. And then lastly, you know, with the 20 seconds I have, I simply want to say this. I refuse to give up. Why? When I became a Christian, I was told I was crazy. When I told a good friend of mine, I'm going to marry my wife. She told me, he told me that's a bad choice. And that bad choice, I've been married with her for 24 years, and that person is working on their third marriage.

[09:16:09] So, I've been told crazy several times. This one I've been told also. But we're going to do it because the Lord wants a property on that place. Thank you. Next speaker, please. I'm used to removing my... And actually, before we get to you, ma'am, the non-resident speakers.

[09:16:28] I have seven people signed up as non-residents. If you can make your way to the back of the chambers and get in line to speak, And again, for everyone, I'm sorry, guys, I'm sorry.

[09:16:43] I want to be able to give instructions for people to hear me. And again, state your name, Magisterial District, or if you're outside of the county, where you are from. Thank you. Absolutely. Good morning. I'm Amanda. Excuse me. I live on River Heights Lane, just off of Davis Ford in the Occoquan District.

[09:17:05] I've mostly come up to reiterate what my neighbors and friends have already stated throughout the night, in that I oppose the project because I have concerns for all of the different variables that it will affect, including but not necessarily limited to the construction, erosion, the traffic.

[09:17:32] We already have a history of having problems on the road, as have been stated, especially with how dangerous of a turn that is. We've already had death at it, and now you want to put an officer in the road. That just doesn't seem fair to the officer to me.

[09:17:52] Regarding the environmental impact, I used to work for a stormwater management contractor, and those super silt fences that were mentioned way at the beginning of the evening, They really only work if they're properly installed and maintained throughout the construction, and that doesn't always go over well on major construction projects.

[09:18:19] Not to mention they're removed at the end of the construction project, so there would still be that after damage. I think the biggest thing for me, though, is going to be that approving the project at this location is going to open the door.

[09:18:39] It may seem like a small thing now. It may just seem like the one thing. But it's going to open a door for other things later that will then eventually pile up in all of it in terms of traffic, in terms of the environment, in terms of how the neighbors feel about it, in terms of all of it.

[09:18:57] Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good morning, Chair Jefferson and members of the board.

[09:19:13] I'm Martin Jeter. I live in the Aquan District, and I'm here representing the Mid-County Civic Association. I won't need the five minutes. It's late, and I'll be brief. We sent you a letter outlining our concerns with this project.

[09:19:30] So many people have spoken to these things already. I'm not going to go into detail and repeat all those. I don't want to keep you any longer. You don't have to be here. We've worked with Pastor Arthur and Olan, his representative, and other members of the church for five years now, a little over five years, actually.

[09:19:50] Had the first meeting with him up here at Panera before, I think it was before he even submitted to the county. And from the very beginning, we urged Pastor Arthur to find a more suitable place for his church. We really, the work he's doing is important.

[09:20:08] We respect the work he's doing. But this parcel was obviously not compatible with this kind of application. Others have also done the same thing. Supervisor Bode made recommendations. Loka Pelt, Dr. Jack, who was here earlier, has actually reached out and found some suitable parcels that may work.

[09:20:31] So everybody's been kind of on the same bandwagon to try to help them out. But they fixated on a parcel. And, yes, you can make this application work on this parcel. There's really no question about that. If you wanted to spend enough money and move enough dirt, you could put the Empire State Building on this parcel.

[09:20:49] I mean, there's engineering ways to make anything work. So we understand that. But the question is, is it a good idea? Is it a good idea for the community? Is it a good idea for the church? I believe Pastor Arthur when he says this church is never going to grow any more over 208 seats.

[09:21:07] I believe when he says that. But is it fair to restrict a church and say you can never gain one more person into your congregation? I don't think that's fair to the church. I don't think that's a good idea to limit it that much.

[09:21:24] And with this parcel, that's something that's necessary. So any church wants to do more for more people. I respect what the pastor just said, that they will build more churches, more satellite churches if they need to do that, and that's fine.

[09:21:41] But as I said, I'll be brief. The SCP process is designed to decide whether or not an application works on a given parcel. And I think it's clear, and it's clear from the beginning, that it does not work on this parcel. We're convinced there are better parcels that are available in Prince William County for them, and we urge them to find a better parcel.

[09:22:01] It's unfortunate you've been put in a position where you're between a church and a community, but you are in that position, and we urge you to recommend denial on this application. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Gedeff. And I think we have one more speaker to come before us, resident speaker.

[09:22:18] Thank you. Kyle Forche, Occoquan District. County board, it's late. I'll make it quick. I waited until the end. I wanted to hear from residents, also from practitioners, and I think these practitioners are great people. I want them to practice in Prince William County.

[09:22:46] 1,416 square feet on four acres is too much. As the gentleman just before me stated, you can move enough dirt to put the Empire State Building there, but that doesn't mean you should. I waited specifically for one reason. I wanted to know why. Why that parcel? Why not somewhere else?

[09:23:15] Nobody who has spoken this evening has answered that question for me. Therefore, I ask the board to please vote 10 to 0 and reject this permit. Thank you. Thank you, sir. And now for our non-resident speakers. Good evening, Board of County Supervisors. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Dr. Kimoy Pidgey, and I'm a member of Fulfillment Temple. I currently reside in Fairfax County. Can you tell us where you're from, please, ma'am? I currently reside in Fairfax

[09:23:53] County in the Mount Vernon Magisterial District. I hold a PhD in pharmacology and have worked as a professor at Virginia Commonwealth University and as an associate program director at the National Science Foundation. I support granting Transformation Temple special use permits.

[09:24:08] Being a part of the church community has been incredibly rewarding personally, spiritually, and professionally. For example, the sincere love and empathy I experienced more than a year ago when the group supported me after the devastating death of my cousin. I was encouraged, uplifted, brought back to life. They carried my entire family, stretching hundreds of miles. Board of County Supervisors, these are the people you will encounter at Transformation Temple, a people who exemplifies the greatest commandment, love God and love people, a love that extends into the community and to our neighbors. We are a faith-filled, vibrant, and loving church family. Families need a home,

[09:24:47] which 5451 Davis Ford Road, Woodbridge, Virginia, 22192 is to us. Our home unseen yet imagined, hoped for and envisioned. Transformation Temple is a place that welcomes everyone, diverse and inclusive of all cultures and backgrounds.

[09:25:04] We are committed and dedicated to God's work and ready to integrate into our new community. Over the years, a growing body of evidence has sought to understand the influences of faith-based organizations within their surrounding community. The general consensus is that the presence of a church communicates a sense of belonging, safety, stability, sacredness, and serenity, and increases property values.

[09:25:26] A Barna Research Group study found that 78% of U.S. adults view these organizations as positive for their community, while 20% see them negatively. Dr. Eric Thompson reported that homes within a one-mile radius of religious entities have 9% to 15% higher property values, with those closest being the most valuable.

[09:25:47] Collectively, the literature describes several benefits of having a church in the community. These include but are not limited to initiatives to engage directly with the community, opportunities for jobs and local business support, social assistance, being a hub with volunteers for community projects, and offering educational programs for youths and adults.

[09:26:08] Board of County Supervisors, we the people of Transformation Temple, we have listened to and acknowledged the concerns of the people of the Occoquan District in Prince William County. We have also responded sympathetically in all areas. we would like to honor our God with the same level of respect and execute his vision in complete obedience. I encourage you to support this project and recommend approval of the building permit for Transformation Temple. Thank you for your time. Next speaker. Good evening,

[09:26:44] Board of County Supervisors. My name is Abina. I live in the Fairfax County where the church is currently located in the Sully Magisterial District. I've been attending Fulfillment Temple since 2008 and has become my second home. I was in elementary school when my family first joined the church. The people I've met here have become my support system, cheerleaders, and role models. Having gone through the children's ministry, youth ministry, and now in the adult church where I serve in the media department, I can unequivocally say that the church has instilled great value in me that influences how I live my life. Our church has always emphasized the importance of faith, unity, and the pursuit of a higher purpose. Building Transformation Temple

[09:27:23] represents our commitment to fulfilling that higher purpose. This has been a passion project of ours for several years now our why as someone asked we've prayed for it given generously to it and now eager to have our vision realized our church strives for excellence in everything that we do we not only ensure that our church and the surrounding areas are well kept but we also actively engage in cleaning up and contributing to the broader community through service projects outreach and evangelism we continuously strive to give back and support the community in every way we can we want to make that positive impact in this community as well in our quest to making

[09:28:00] Occoquan District the new home of our beloved church. We are committed to maintaining excellence in everything we do. That is why we have made the necessary adjustments to our building plan, contracted the right experts, and gone through all the necessary procedures. We are not taking any concerns lightly or going through any shortcuts. I would like to reiterate the point of future expansion or overcrowding. We've had a number of previous large-scale events that were moved to more spacious and accommodating venues, such as the large conference rooms in Marriott Hotel and Falls Church and the Northern Virginia Community College campus.

[09:28:31] to ensure we will not go over any occupancy limits. This goes to show the type of church leadership that we have, and we operate in the same regard when it comes to our new building, ensuring we abide by all codes and regulations. I hope that you will consider our dedication and positive impact to vote yes.

[09:28:47] Thank you so much for your time. Next speaker, please. Good evening, Board of County Supervisors and fellow citizens. My name is Alex, and I'm a member whose family drives from Loudoun County to weekly services in Springfield.

[09:29:06] I'm an entrepreneur and a proud owner of a medical emergency transportation business, which has been providing services to Prince William County for the past decade. I'm a devoted child of God, a good husband to a loving wife, and a father to our four beautiful girls. I started attending this church in 2013, and it has been a tremendous blessing to my life, marriage, and family.

[09:29:28] The International Central Gospel Church provides me with the inspiration to dive deeper into the Word of God and discover a like-minded community. That is why I'm in full support of the church building project in Woodbridge since majority of my brothers and sisters in the Lord live here.

[09:29:44] At the International Sinner Gospel Church, my wife and I and our four beautiful children have been exposed to the blessings of a sound biblical teaching. At the church, we met some of our dearest friends in the world. This is a great church to have on Davis 4 Road. I would like to address the concern that our site's proximity to the Occoquan Reservoir Protection Area will result in a runoff that negatively impacts the reservoir.

[09:30:12] As demonstrated by our legal representation, runoff from our site would have to traverse nearly three miles to reach the protected area. I would like to emphasize this point. The runoff would have to travel three whole miles.

[09:30:29] This evidence clearly shows that it is misleading to claim that our site is directly on the protection area and will degrade the water quality of the reservoir. We are not directly on the Occoquan Reservoir Protection Area. It will not degrade the water quality and as has been alleged.

[09:30:48] It is important to remember that to allege means to assert without proof. There is no proof to support these allegations. The proof is that runoff from our site will travel nearly three miles, making it impossible for it to cause any degradation.

[09:31:05] We have fulfilled all county requirements and have received a recommendation for approval from each county agency. I respectfully request that you vote yes. Thank you for your time and consideration. God bless. Next speaker, please. Good morning.

[09:31:21] So my name is Eben Teddy Queno, a husband, a father, a veteran of the United States Navy, an attorney, a resident of White Plains, Maryland, and a member of this church. This morning, we've spoken a lot, so I'll just focus my support for approval on two key topics, misinformation and transformation.

[09:31:40] A quote by Carl Sandberg, a quote by a Dan professor in law school, remains relevant. If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell. Misinformation is just like pounding the table and yelling like hell.

[09:31:58] There's a tall list of misinformation that has plagued this permit, despite the various modifications accepted and concessions made. You probably have already heard a lot tonight, so I won't bore you with listing them. You've also heard the facts. The planning office saw through the misinformation and recommended approval.

[09:32:16] The planning commissioners saw through the misinformation and recommended approval. Let's face it, the group of people in this country who's every action, even if war-intentioned, will always be policed or opposed. So you have a daunting task ahead of you. A task not just to decide whether a place of worship is built, but a task to decide whether lives are transformed or not.

[09:32:36] And I appreciate you for taking on this task. I'll let you in on the transformational story that Pastor shared with me last week. This story is as old as time, so you've probably heard about it. And I'll let brevity be my guide and summarize it. It's about the story of Saul who later became poor in the Bible. Initially, Saul strongly opposed early Christianity.

[09:32:54] However, a profound experience led to his conversion, transforming him into one of Christianity's most influential figures. This demonstrates the power of transformation and potential for change. So, if you've heard the story of Paul before, and you believe in this transformational outcome, obey your hearts and approve this permit.

[09:33:14] If you've never heard about the story of Paul, open your hearts and approve this permit. If you've heard the story about Paul before, but you did not believe in this transformational outcome, no pressure. I invite you to let these four things be your guide. The merits of the application itself, any transformational story in your life that you believe in, a disregard for misinformation, and deference for the Planning Commission's recommendation for approval.

[09:33:37] Thank you so much for your time and consideration. I yield. All right. I thank you, everyone who has stayed and who has spoken. I know that this is very early. We're in, you know, three hours of the morning. We do not have any online speakers.

[09:33:55] So what I am going to ask for, if there is anyone in the audience who has not spoken, if you have not spoken during this public hearing, but you have something, I see folks, I don't know if y'all are running, and please, how many people do we have?

[09:34:10] Is that people lining up? If you can come in and take a seat, if you're in the atrium, if you can come in to the board chambers and have a seat, help me keep better track of folks.

[09:34:22] We still have quite a few seats over here, and I see some in the front.

[09:35:01] have we have quite a few seats open all right folks if people can kind of then i'm going to ask some of you to stand up um how many people i just want a show of hands who want to speak who have not had a chance to speak is there anyone raise your hand if you want to speak all right i'm going to say it's one last time because if no one raises their hand i'm going to close the um

[09:35:37] public hearing is there anyone who has not spoken who would like to speak raise your hand all right i do not see anyone so i am going to go ahead and close the public hearing The public hearing for item 15B is now closed.

[09:35:56] So with that, I would like to entertain a motion. Madam Chair. Yes. I move to approve the SUP with the conditions dated March 4th, 2025. Second. All right.

[09:36:12] I'm going to open this for discussion among members of the board. Please jump into queue if you have something you would like to speak on. All right. Supervisor Weir. Madam Chair. Is there an opportunity to ask questions before we get into the specifics?

[09:36:31] You want to ask questions again for the applicant? Based on some of the public comment. All right. I know Mr. Arthur is here. Is your attorney still here? Is your counsel still here? All right, Mr. Sim, come on down, bro. We do, I just want to reiterate, we do have an open motion that's been properly seconded.

[09:36:52] If you have questions for the applicant's attorney, go ahead and jump into queue. Supervisor, where I see you, I'll get back to you later. But if you have questions, you had a question? Okay. So, you know, Franklin could kind of preempt, so I'll get to Franklin, we are Bailey.

[09:37:12] These are questions for the applicant to clarify. Yeah, just very quickly. There was some discussion about a lot of mitigating factors that residents had concern about that were mitigated going north but not south.

[09:37:29] I was wondering if you can hit on that and then more specifically some of the soil issues for those that have properties behind the site. A number of them talked about issues with the erosion with regards to the soil. and then also if you can just highlight some of the conditions that that you're offering and and just so that we're clear on what those are okay with regard to the conditions what we're doing is we're offering to comply with the sup plan itself in other words what's on that plan will be what we're going to do nothing outside of that we're also proffering not to do anything other than

[09:38:06] church uses on the site we're proffering to deal with light pollution on the site and keep all the light onto the site we're proffering no noise mitigation as well we're proffering we have a number of profits that we're providing that address all the issues including transportation issues so a lot of what we talked was talked about during comment time I think we've addressed in the proffers including the

[09:38:33] special events we've no limited to four events we have proffered to yeah I think There's there's a whole list of them. I can't think of all right now, but sure and just to be clear Those considerations you're offering on your own outside. Exactly. That's right. Okay. Yes. Those are all volunteer proffers. Thank you Madam Chair members of the board just for clarification. Mr. Simmons

[09:39:07] You said earlier that there was a discussion that you might be voluntarily offering as a mitigation factor to limit the number of services That's correct. Is that what you're at your client is voluntarily? Yes That would be an additional condition that you're offering?

[09:39:23] That would be, yes. And that would therefore make Supervisor Bailey's motion of approving the SUP with the conditions dated today her motion? That's correct. Thank you, sir. That's correct. Thank you. Then, just very quickly, just going back to the soil and erosion issue, if you can just talk a little bit about that. I need to have the experts come up and talk about that issue.

[09:39:48] I'm sorry, do you have your experts? Are they still here? Yes, I'll bring them in. Okay. And, Mr. Summitt, you can have your team take a seat in the front row, so that way.

[09:40:16] We did proffered the architecture as well. We proffered the building height also. We proffered landscaping all throughout the site as well. Interior parking lot landscaping. The monument sign and size of the site, size of the sign itself. We proffered a historical marker as well.

[09:40:34] So there's a whole lot there. And do we yield, Supervisor Franklin? Can I? I'm Ron Schools. could i answer a question about erosion control yes sir um our site uh will have a stormwater management facility under the parking lot and that's where our water will discharge there is already an existing well-defined swale at that area there is a house not far behind us but they're

[09:41:10] about 30 feet up the hill from where this water will run and i think we have four or five hundred feet to go and then we hit the creek that's down there all of that is in an rpa so no houses around that was there any other questions for ens controls or mitigation i do not from okay i would just sit there wait because we have more people i see you in queue supervisor we're i know you had questions

[09:41:42] too thank you madam chair morning olon um do you have a square footage for the sanctuary congregation hall whatever you want to call it size of the building itself approximate square footage i can't hear yeah um i don't think there's any square footage for the floor plans that we have we just have the size of the building itself yeah just i just wanted to the size of the congregation

[09:42:10] hall or the sanctuary where the where the seating would be um let's see approximately i'm sorry i need my slides committed dimensions i'll do the math yeah there's some offices but it's a nine 1,000 square foot upstairs.

[09:42:38] I'll tell you, absolutely. You could step forward and step forward. Now are the... Do you want an applicant? In the staff report, yeah, it clearly states the sanctuary, the 208 seats is approximately 3,608 square feet.

[09:43:00] 3,608. Okay. Mr. Schools, as long as you're up, I could barely hear you a moment ago, but did I understand correctly that you'll discharge into the swale and then eventually it'll drain into the stream at the bottom of the property or on the other person's property?

[09:43:17] Not at the bottom of their property. That's somebody else's property. Five or 600 feet down the street. So you're going to point discharge into a swale, which will go into the creek. That's correct. Which is different than sheet flow. Well, I've got two issues with that. One, you're changing from sheet flow to point discharge, and we can argue all day about this, but that will create erosion in the channel.

[09:43:37] But if you're going to be discharging into the stream, then I don't want to hear anybody say the water's not going into the Occoquan. Because I've got water that goes into streams in Haymarket 24 miles away from here that ends up in the Occoquan. So the premise that water's not going to travel to the Occoquan is, quite frankly, a false.

[09:44:00] I think we had an exhibit that said we are two and a half miles from the... Two and a half miles is a hell of a lot shorter than 24. From the reservoir, to the reservoir. And I've got PFAS and salinity coming from the Gainesville district. You know, go to Manassas and look at Micron.

[09:44:20] Madam Chair, that's the two questions I have. There's 3,608. Was that what the number was? Yes. You can see it on the slide. It says sanctuary. 3,608. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. Bailey, you were in queue.

[09:44:35] I don't know if you still had a question. If not, I'll go on to that. Yeah. No, not a question. Just a brief comment. I just want to appreciate and thank all of the citizens that came out tonight, both the church and the residents. We really appreciate you hanging in there with us, all of you, and voicing your opinions and your care, because this is a very difficult decision, but I appreciate your time that you hung in there with us.

[09:45:02] That's all I wanted to say, Madam Chair. All right. Supervisor Vega. Thank you, Madam Chair. Alex, if you could please come up. There were some concerns raised about parking. Can you talk about the parking and where we're at in terms of spots?

[09:45:19] So I'm going to actually turn that over to George if you want to talk about the picture. George Phillips with Prince William County DOT. What was the specific question about parking? So that it wasn't adequate, it wasn't enough.

[09:45:35] And, again, these are stemming from comments made during public comment time. The DCSM requires one parking space per three seats. and they're providing I think one parking space they're providing one one parking space for two and I think they're doing that to to accommodate or allow for additional parking on site so that they then don't have to have people shuttled in I'm assuming so okay thank you for that and then the planning commission because there was also some allegation that that failed at the PC level What was the decision?

[09:46:11] So that is not correct. I have a list of things that, you know, people mentioned on both sides that weren't, you know, that needed correction. But one of them was the PC voted to approve the case. You are correct. Thank you for that. And then the situation with St. Margaret's Episcopal Church, that church is operating at past also, yes?

[09:46:32] Because that was also brought up. That is correct. I went back and looked, and it did, it was approved in 2012. Okay. I think that it would save us time, Alex, if you go down whatever your list.

[09:46:48] So if you could please. Yeah. So just really quick, we evaluate each application based on the use that will occur on the property. We don't look at other properties for the potential use. So that's one of the first things. We have subject matter experts, and in this case, it wasn't just county staff.

[09:47:08] We have people from the Commonwealth of Virginia, independent agencies, the authority looking at, you know, all this material, and, you know, they provided their comments. And at this point, everyone was fine with, you know, the application itself.

[09:47:27] Of course, with every application, you have some shortcomings. But there was a question about the – I'm glad Michelle handled that with the permitted uses. If we can – you know, if they commit to only doing so many services, I think that – and spread it out.

[09:47:45] I think they had 10 AM and 12 or something like that. I think that's helpful because that staggers out the services. So there was a question about parking, people parking on Davis Ford Road or in other neighborhood streets.

[09:48:02] There's a specific condition, 4C, that addresses that parking limitation. Let's see here. What else? So the traffic impact data, that is, you know, we obtained that from the subject matter experts.

[09:48:28] And they confirm that the data is correct. I heard someone say that there was too many trips or something like that. I'm sorry, I'm a little tired. Also, someone said that there was no address.

[09:48:43] Headrest was put in the resolution, the first page of the staff report, and in the presentation. So that needed to be corrected. The police station is 28,000 square feet. It's not 18,000. someone said it was the same side. The petition staff has not seen that. I know from the applicant we received petitions for 3215 petitions in favor of it, but we have not, staff has not had an opportunity to evaluate that and go through that, nor have we seen that one and had the opportunity

[09:49:17] to go through that and verify. That would take some time. Let's see what else. I think in general that's it, but, you know, they are limited to four special events, okay, so any of these events that people have been talking about, they're limited because that's not considered a service, so therefore, they're limited to four special events. They can get a, what we call a TAP, a temporary

[09:49:50] activity permit, but that's a limited time as well. It's not, you know, for a long period of time. Okay, that's all I can think of right now.

[09:50:07] Sorry. All right, so thank you very much. Stay there, obviously, because we have Supervisor Gordy. Thank you, Madam Chair. I do. So just going back to what you just said, so a TAP is usually for events that are taking place outside when you're creating noise and things like that.

[09:50:28] So the four events we're talking about are simply events that are on site but not inside the building. So we're not saying that other events cannot take place inside the building. We're not saying that they're limited to four events inside the building. And I say this because Arlupa specifically states we cannot limit the exercise of religion.

[09:50:54] So we may be taking this too far in terms of the proffers. And now I'm getting very concerned about how far this is going and what the limitations would be on their free exercise. And I just want to make sure that we're not limiting them in terms of their ability to hold events inside their building.

[09:51:18] Right. In the permitted uses, they say applications shall not include private school use or child daycare use, and no more than four special events shall occur per year, and those are limited to the weekend.

[09:51:37] Limited to the weekend, but that's outside or inside? It does not specify in the conditions, but it does say no amplified outdoor music shall be allowed, and provided music or other amplified sounds shall not be audible beyond the property lines.

[09:51:57] Okay. In the transportation piece, it talked about that they shall provide for these special events. If it exceeds, they would need to provide the mitigation, traffic mitigation, if it exceeds the parking lot capacity.

[09:52:19] So it would not, so in any special event, they wouldn't need it unless it's anticipated to exceed the parking lot capacity. I believe that's correct. Okay. And then just one clarifying on page four, environmental plan.

[09:52:37] The site does contain steep slopes and erodible and poor soils. The slopes are being mitigated by the building design and final layout to the extent possible. Are you telling me that is that a statement stating that there are some things that is just impossible to mitigate on this site?

[09:52:55] So what we're saying is that based on our evaluation, that there are some things that may not be, you know, might not be fully mitigated from that potential use.

[09:53:12] But the applicant did, you know, did commit to addressing those issues, you know, at site plan. We don't, you know, we can't, you know, we can't evaluate everything, you know, until we get the final site plan plans to make sure that everything's been addressed.

[09:53:31] Yeah, that's concerning. And then on the, for the, and Olan, if you could help me on this one, your stormwater management. So based upon the diagrams that I've seen, the stormwater retention facility is on one side of the building.

[09:53:52] That's right. And it looks like the roof flows to that side, so everything from the roof down, that parking lot will go into that facility. What about the parking lot on the other side? I think it's designed so it all flows into the facility. Okay. Is that right, Ron? That's correct.

[09:54:08] Okay. That parking lot actually rises as it comes back. There's a hill there, so it closed back towards Davis Ford Road, gets into the storm drain system there, and goes to the stormwater management area. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Supervisor Bode.

[09:54:27] Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to everyone who's hung out with us all night into the morning. A couple questions. Let's start along with your expert that was just here. Forget your name, sir. Sorry, it's late. So you mentioned earlier that some of that supervisor we were just asked earlier captures the flow, discharges it down the gully basically and out.

[09:54:58] Correct. That flow today is not sheet flow. There is a natural swale that is at the back corner of our site, and that swale continues until you get to that creek that's 500 or 600 feet away.

[09:55:15] and air flows will be reduced from the flows that are there now because of the stormwater management that we're employing. Okay, and remind me, this is up to a 10-year standard? Yes, that's correct. And I assume that you all have done the modeling necessarily to even looking at the fact that we've had more extreme weather.

[09:55:37] We do the modeling, you know, as part of the final site plan. A final site plan. Yes, and we can, and we adjust the size of the underground system in order to get that results that we're looking for. Did you look at permeable surfaces at all for the asphalt as part of the stormwater management system?

[09:55:59] No, for two reasons. One, our parking lot, the one that's on the east side, is at about 5% grade. So the water will run towards the bottom where it's captured in the catch basins and so forth and then directed to the underground system.

[09:56:20] because you really, the permeable pavement works best when you have soils that have high percolation rates and so forth. We don't have that, you know, we have it in our drain field area, but not over the whole site.

[09:56:39] Gotcha. And my last question on that note, we're talking about finished built environment state right now, right? Talk to me a little bit more about phasing of the clear cutting of the current site and how you're going to make sure that in clearing the site, especially of mature trees, we're not going to run into an issue with getting rid of all that mature trees and all that filtration and all the good sort of capture we have right now as they're going through construction.

[09:57:08] The activity, the way that I see the activity taking place is the first thing we would do is build the road that gets us up to Davis Ford Road and also do the Davis-Ford Road improvements first.

[09:57:25] Now, there will be material that has to come onto the site and brush and so forth. It will have to be hauled off the site. But the plan would be to have that road, that ramp, and the road improvements in place when that's ready to happen. So the road improvements would be the first thing to get done.

[09:57:44] Thank you. All right. Supervisor Angry. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just really two quick questions. One on the, there's some discussions about that monument sign. I asked you the question about lighting. You said there's no LED for the sign.

[09:58:02] Is this what that is, just the signage identifying the church itself? Exactly right. It's not back lit. There's no light inside the sign itself. It's lit externally. Okay. And then just the last question is there was a gentleman who spoke about his property being right next.

[09:58:20] I'm looking at a slide, and I know you showed one that showed more of an aerial with the homes on it. This says fencing, I think, on that one side. My question is, is that fencing, is that anything for that homeowner's viewshed?

[09:58:36] I mean, we've got a 30-foot buffer. Are you doing anything around that to try to help out that homeowner with any fencing or anything different over there? No, we've not provided fencing, you mean along here in this area here? Yeah, that's the home right here, right? That's it, yeah.

[09:58:52] Okay. We've done it to put a fence in here, see it along here. That's just to catch the light as we're driving onto the property so the light doesn't hit his house. It just hits the fence there. So that is a fence right there. Okay. That's what it looks like. And is there another, there was another house on the other side, correct?

[09:59:08] Yes, all the way over here. Oh, it's kind of far out. It's way over here, yeah. Okay. All right, thanks. I just have a quick question for Mr. Venegas. One of the speakers brought up that this project had eight revisions over five years.

[09:59:28] Sitting up here, we know we have a lot of projects that have had multiple revisions. I just want you to speak for a second, just mostly for the public to understand. That's not unusual, is it? I mean, like, we have had projects that have had multiple revisions. We have had projects that have had 17 revisions, and unfortunately, one of them might be coming back.

[09:59:47] Yes. So, we average about three to four submissions, but there are times when it's a case where you have to continue to negotiate with the applicant or there's additional considerations, like in this case with some of the environmental issues.

[10:00:13] We had to work, you know, more with the applicant to get it to where everyone felt comfortable with it. And so that, you know, this would be some five to six would normally be for an SUP this magnitude.

[10:00:30] And how willing was the applicant to work with you? So they were very willing to work with staff. Again, we've had three case planners that handled this case since 2019 until here today.

[10:00:48] So, they've been willing to, you know, review and see if they could address our concerns and our conditions. And to this point, they've addressed, you know, everything that we've asked for or the review agencies have asked for.

[10:01:06] All right. Thank you very much. does anyone else have any questions for staff i see you're still in there angry i assume i know our my system's been a little delayed so i don't see all right you're out you're out so we have an open motion that has been properly seconded um did you have a question supervisor weir for staff or are you ready for discussion all right everyone line up for discussion um supervisor weir first off i'm going to apologize my sinuses are killing me it's not that i'm angry or anything um this

[10:01:42] time anyway. About six hours ago I walked in here with a number of concerns and I'll be quite honest with you my concerns have deepened. A number of people have mentioned look at the data and that's pretty much what I do I look at the data and unfortunately as with many cases that come to us the data changes between the time that people visit our office or they go to the planning commission and they arrive here and tonight I've heard any number of different numbers with respect to the congregation in terms of size, a little over 100 and some, 200 and some, two services,

[10:02:21] which means 400. And the numbers keep getting scaled up, changed back, and it's come from both the applicant and the applicant's counsel. So you'll excuse me if I'm a little skeptical of the numbers that I'm hearing, and as a result of that, I'm a little skeptical of the numbers that were provided for the engineering services. If the numbers keep changing and, you know, we've even got now a condition to limit the number of services to two, if I recall correctly, when the applicant

[10:02:58] was in my office last week, there wasn't even the consideration of a second service. It was one service, so that's changed. With respect to the condition, yes, it's voluntarily offered by the applicant i don't know i'll leave the legal scholar at the end to determine this but i'm not sure we can even um enforce that even if we wanted to uh and then there's also the issue of the of the congregation which brings us to the alternative septic i've already mentioned my my issues with it and you know we've been told listen to the listen to the applicants experts well if they

[10:03:32] weren't given the proper number of potential users of the septic system uh or the potential number of services because when this was first brought to me it was one service on sunday one service on wednesday night one service on thursday night and now it's potentially multiple services on sunday services every night for 20 30 days uh i mean that dramatically changes the calculations for any number of things not just not just the um not just the septic um you know just a sort of

[10:04:05] Parallel to this was I believe with st. Catherine Drexel years ago where the same argument came up with respect to use of well and and septic I think they're still on septic, but now we're going to To sewer when they swore they weren't going to do it. So things change over time And then we get to the steep slope issue and my mr. Schools you've quite frankly you've made my concerns even greater I had an issue at first with the steep slope and the erodible soils at the bottom of the parcel.

[10:04:39] Now that I know that they drain into a stream and that you're going to be using an existing swale with point discharge, I'm even more concerned. I've got more questions now and more concerns now than when I walked in here six hours ago.

[10:04:58] Somebody's mentioned ORPA. I'm also concerned what this means to future applications that are in the ORPA, not just on Davis Ford but in other sections of the county.

[10:05:14] And then there's traffic issues. Again, if the numbers change, the traffic numbers change. The traffic measures or improvements change. And since information and belief, we haven't had a traffic review by VDOT in two years, I mean, there's been a lot changing in two years with VDOT.

[10:05:37] We have found that out the hard way on the board. In fact, I found out about a very hard way two weeks ago. So I'm not convinced that what they approved two years ago still holds true today.

[10:05:54] Now, I will argue on your behalf if this passes that, you know, they granted a ministerial approval and they need to live up to it. But I don't know how much sway that's going to have. Long and short of it, like I say, I've got more questions now and more concerns than when I walked in.

[10:06:11] And I feel like, you know, the goalposts have been moved with respect to impacts. So I'm afraid that given all those concerns and those changing numbers, I just can't support this tonight. Not in this format.

[10:06:28] All right. Thank you. Your time is up. Is there anyone else who wanted to speak? Supervisor Bode. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. First, wanted to say thank you for everyone who came out tonight on both sides of this. Wanted to thank Pastor Arthur and his congregation for coming to my office five years ago before COVID happened.

[10:06:49] Remember, you met with me in my office, I want to say maybe the second or third week I was in office officially. So I remember that conversation. We know that I told you I had a tough time ahead of you. And I'm going to say some things that I'm sure that people on both sides will be a little upset with at me for, but I want to remind folks sort of where the score stands.

[10:07:12] It's not my job as supervisor to just tell people when they come to my office, no, get out of here, get out of my sight, shut it down. That's what some people have asked me to do. It's also not my job to unfurl the red carpet and rubber stamp things just because everyone else has sort of signed off on it.

[10:07:29] It's my job to scrutinize and to protect my constituents to the best of my ability. But it's also my job to work with applicants as much as I can, so if we get to a point that even if I vote against it and it passes, we have the most mitigated project possible that I can say I did my best job to protect the residents of my district.

[10:07:50] That's where we are with this. I had concerns with the project from the beginning. We worked through a lot of the things I had concerns about, really loved the fact that staff got proactive with some of the things, reach out to the health department, what have you. I still have some concerns about certain touch points and timestamps of those reviews because I know that the first approval from the health department came before some of the things around the kitchen were even worked through, which gives me pause knowing that they signed off before some things were really set in stone before we got here, which to me undermines some of the good feelings I would have had about that otherwise.

[10:08:26] Overall, this applicant has done a lot to mitigate their impacts. I think everyone in here can acknowledge that. Now, everyone's going to disagree on if it's enough, right? Because ultimately, a lot of folks that have spoken tonight that are against this project will tell you it's not enough.

[10:08:45] Because ultimately, they feel in their heart of hearts with where they sit and what they've seen on their road for the last 20, 30 years, or even just two years in some cases, if you put anything here other than a three-bedroom house, it's going to be too much to add to this. Because frankly, that's what this area is occasioned around. That's what the road supports. That's why it's still a two-lane road in the comp plan. That's why we haven't done anything to blow open this road. And as far as I'm sitting here, we never will. At the same time, though, we also know that we're going to have constrained sites

[10:09:23] in Mid-County. Supervisor Vega and I have that luxurious pleasure of having Mid-County where we have lots that are little slivers to giant parcels of land and everything in between. We have constrained sites. We have sites that where there's no ER through them like this, where there is the whole site's bisected by perennial streams and things like that. That's just the nature of this miraculous thing that is called Mid-County in our county. That said though, I have to look at the facts i have but also the information that i got from the public and what i've been able to do

[10:09:58] with my own research i trust our experts but as was said before there's information that i have that i've researched that i've been given both through my own research and by folks who have looked at this that i have to consider alongside this again there are special events that i i know that with your congregation how you guys are doing in springfield it's rocking right great events that you guys do sometimes all month long at the beginning and the middle parts of the year.

[10:10:23] Unfortunately, that won't work nearly as well on a site like this in comparison to Springfield. There are all sorts of different things that's part of your free exercise that you are able to commit to your existing congregation that, again, won't work nearly as well on a secluded, semi-rural road that has two lanes to it and has these small lot singles all around it.

[10:10:51] I just feel like by picking this site, you're depriving yourself from living up to your full potential as a congregation. One of my constituents said that earlier. And so I have to look at what the impacts are if you try to live up to that full potential. And my concern is there's going to be issues with that septic system.

[10:11:12] There's going to be issues with runoff. There's going to be a lot of issues going downstream literally into people's front yards and their wells. It's going to be a cataclysm in the making because we know weather patterns are getting worse. We know that septic systems, many cases do eventually fail.

[10:11:27] And we know that when that happens, and it's happened in this county several times already, everyone has already had the damage done. We'd look around and find solutions to it. Do you want your second trance of time? Sure, if you don't mind. All right, Andre. And I don't want to support a project knowing that we're setting up a congregation that some of my constituents said it.

[10:11:49] We love your congregation. We want you to come to Prince William County. Heck, I would want you to come to the Occoquan District. But this site, to live up to your full potential, it just doesn't align, in my view. And my biggest concern, like I said, is that something happens with that septic system, or something happens with the soils, or something blows out that you can't foresee right now because you are looking at the horizon and God's vision for you, and we end up having to deal with it on the outflow of that, on the other side of that.

[10:12:20] And I would hate for you all, and frankly, I would even more hate for all the residents that live all around you to have to link arms with you to deal with a mess that we could have avoided by stopping this here and helping you find another site. So for that reason, I can't support this, and I'll be voting no.

[10:12:40] Thank you, Madam Chair. Supervisor Bailey. Thank you, Madam Chair. I said I wasn't really going to say anything, but I have to. I'm sorry, Bob. I know it's late, but I have to say this, and I'll say it quickly.

[10:12:55] I see this as, this is a hard decision, as I said earlier, but I see this as an opportunity, an opportunity for change, opportunity for communication, opportunity for growth in this section of our county.

[10:13:12] And what I mean by that is, right now where I live, I live in a house where the president of the Housing Association before me did not want the church that's in back of me to be built i attend that church that church is called first mom zion baptist church and i know you all know where that is that church is a church that serves the entire community in terms of food in terms of programs in terms of everything now

[10:13:46] that church was built in a place that was not conducive in 1992 to be built but now it serves the community. Now what am I saying to the residents and what am I saying to the church? I'm saying that this is an opportunity for y'all to come together and talk about this because I understand having your your home and not wanting certain things around it. I get that 100 percent but two things happen where I live. One, my house was built in Forest Park and two, my church was

[10:14:21] not wanted. So I just want that to resonate for a minute and I want to say that don't miss the opportunity because Prince William County is still a great place to live as an example of those young people that stood in the back and talked about how they're in college and they're still in college trying to get their education but they want to come back here they want to come back here and live in the community where their parents are or think about your children your children that have gone away and didn't come back but they always know that this is home so I just want you to have

[10:14:55] just to think about that for a minute, have it resonate, to just resonate. Or I think about the wonderful lady that says she lives in Mr. Vanderpool's house. I know who you are. It's a wonderful house. It's a wonderful house. And so don't lose that as Prince William County. Don't lose that as Prince William County. Now, a wonderful person in my life that I replaced in my seat that is now my friend told me, Andrea, and I say this tongue in cheek, don't mess with

[10:15:30] the churches because you want to go to heaven, okay? I do want to go to heaven, but I also want to serve this community, and I want to be a catalyst of change in this community with people that may not look like me, may not serve like me, but we can all serve each other. And so that's my sermon, and that's my prayer. And so I am going to be supporting the church, and I've received your emails and your text messages and I respect that, but I'm asking that you respect what I'm saying right now. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[10:16:05] Supervisor Franklin. Yes, thank you. Just want to thank everyone for coming out on both sides of this issue. Very enthusiastic discussions over the past several weeks, so I just want to thank everyone. I am going to be supporting this for a few reasons.

[10:16:24] As we've heard from staff this application has gone through several iterations and where we are now is with several things that address a lot of the community's concern reducing the building size having the architecture blend with the community the health department has approved permits for the drain field underground storm water system the installation of a turn lane to mitigate against traffic. Even when we talk about police on site to help with some of the Sunday traffic,

[10:17:01] quite frankly, that's pretty standard for a lot of churches already. The retaining wall, the fencing. And so the church and the county have been working really hard, I think, to address a lot of those concerns. And as mentioned, no application is ever perfect. If there were, would be actually concerned. But I will tell you that as Supervisor Bailey mentioned, I actually think that this is an opportunity for the community as well as the church to hopefully build a relationship. And I think it's one where the community should hold the church accountable

[10:17:37] and stop in and introduce yourselves and get involved and make sure that they're doing what they have agreed to. And then also for the church in making sure that they're providing those services to the community as well as I know you want to and you will. And also making sure that everyone is being good actors and being good neighbors and community members. It's easy to say no. That's the easy way out. But when you work on something and make these type of revisions that we've seen, I think is worth the shot. So I want to thank everyone for coming out and expressing

[10:18:13] their opinions. Not everyone's going to be happy. The difficult part of what we have to do is uh we we set our uh examples one way and we agree with one thing and it always ticks someone off on the other side so we never actually win um but i just want to say that this is an opportunity for everybody to come together uh and build one community uh and not have any type of animosity going into uh going into this discussion so hopefully i have no idea if this is going to pass or not but that will be my encouragement uh if it does so thank you thank Now, Supervisor Gordy, you're in, you're out.

[10:18:51] Do you have anything you want to say? If not, I'm going to go to Vega. Yeah, this is, again, thank you, everyone who came out tonight. I know it's late, and thank you for your commitment to our community. You know, I am a pastor.

[10:19:07] I have pastored churches. I have served as a youth minister. I have been in churches in Alaska and Louisiana, and I've been on the mission field. So I love what you guys are doing. i love your passion for jesus christ i love your passion for each other your love uh someone said love god love others that's on my ring right here that i made myself to remind myself that every day that that's what i have to do i have to love god and i have to love others um this is a land use

[10:19:42] case um and so we have to evaluate this based upon the the the set of circumstances that we have before us. But I will tell you, you know, if I were a pastor of a church and I were handed a church on this site and was told, you can't do this, you can't do that, you can only do this there, I'd be like, who in the world agreed to this? I'm immediately looking at these conditions and I'm saying, man, this is infringing upon the free exercise of religion, which has me very

[10:20:21] concerned that we may be having a set of documents here that are not defensible. And so I just, I'm concerned that we've, you know, we're trying to deal with the land as it is, and we're creating all these conditions and sacrifices and limitations to make this fit on dirt. And so for me, I'm just like, what are we really giving up here in terms of the cause of Christ? And so I'm struggling with

[10:21:00] this one because I think we've taken it way too far and I still don't think we've mitigated fully the downstream impacts. I do care about the environment. We have to be good stewards of the things that God has blessed us with and right now salinity is a major problem in the Occoquan. It affects our drinking water. PFAS is a major problem. We just had the soil and water or the Prince William water come in here and say if the land is more than three percent not impervial, then that's going to lead to increase in salinity. And that's what we have

[10:21:38] going on here. We're increasing the impervious surfaces very close to the Occoquan. And what do we do in parking lots in the summertime? We put salt on them. And here we are throwing more salt into the problem. And we don't have a solution to our drinking water. And that's why the ORPA was created, was to protect our drinking water. And so, again, I'm struggling with this. I appreciate everything that everyone's uh has had to say tonight i do agree the community's got to come together regardless of what happens here tonight you got to come together thank you madam chair

[10:22:17] supervisor vega then i will say something before we vote thank you madam chair first off uh thank you to the church thank you to members of the community and thank you to staff and to the representation on behalf of the applicant um you all on all sides of the issues uh the issue have been a great in terms of your advocacy trying to have your voice heard and I appreciate that I want to take my comments in a different direction because I think that education is important and oftentimes we fail to understand the process that we are looking at here right now

[10:22:55] and as a district supervisor it's my responsibility to view every land use application and judge it on its own merit. Every application has its challenges, but my job is to mitigate those challenges, to find a solution to those challenges, because I simply cannot vote no on something because I personally don't like it, and I simply cannot vote yes on something simply because staff is telling me to vote yes on it. I am a person that bases her decisions on the facts. I'm a law enforcement officer, so I love evidence. The more evidence I have, the merrier. I ask questions.

[10:23:32] One of the main reasons why I thanked Alex and the team was because I've asked dozens of questions to ensure that I have the proper information. As members of the community emailed us with their concerns, I asked those questions to county staff too, and of the applicant, because it's important.

[10:23:50] Information is important. Educating ourselves on this process is important. and oftentimes we get caught up in this way of thinking where because my neighbor told me this it must be true or because somebody in the church said this it must be true and i am left as a district supervisor and one member of this board composed of eight individuals because the county attorney and the county executive cannot vote um i i i am i am left you know with the task of you know blocking off you know all the noise and looking at what's been presented before me

[10:24:27] three weeks ago I had a lot of concerns you know we we had a conversation as a team and this is a very fluid process we got dozens of emails of people demanding to know how the supervisor was going to vote and I am never going to tell anybody how I'm going to vote until the day of because out of respect I owe it to each and every single one of you to listen to you and to listen to my colleagues and what else might transpire. And so I never once indicated how I was going to vote, but I did have concerns and those concerns, even as, as, as, as early as today

[10:25:04] with the three letters that we received, a lot of the concerns that I had have been put to ease. This project is not in my district, but I make it a priority to go into the district to see it for myself. I walked the property. I was there with Ron. I was there with the pastor and I saw it for myself, because it's important to do that. So at the end of the day, I am going to make my decision based on the facts, the evidence that has been presented. But I want to echo what my colleagues have stated up here. We are one Prince William County. We are one community. I don't believe

[10:25:43] that a single soul that came here today to speak for or against is a bad individual or has ill intentions towards anyone. We're passionate about what we believe in, and that's okay, that's your right and I encourage you to continue to be passionate to continue to engage your local government because that's the beauty of this country where we can voice our opinions maybe not agree but at the end of the day we come together and so I want to thank you all for coming here I want to thank you all for your emails for your phone calls because our phones were ringing off the hook yesterday and today I heard you loud and clear but I wanted to give you a different side of the coin if you will madam chair as to how as supervisors or rather I don't

[10:26:22] want to speak for anybody else but how I base my decisions when it comes to a land use matter so thank you everyone and madam chair thank you for the opportunity supervisor angry and then me yeah I you know I'll be brief I I didn't plan on speaking but I'm gonna uh definitely echo everything that supervisor Vega just said you know at the end of the day um we have a decision to make and there are no winners here regardless of how we make our decision someone's gonna like it someone else is not going to like it the issue becomes the facts and i will tell you that you've

[10:26:59] just heard earlier about our planning office and our planning director and what they do and how good they are you just heard earlier about how we have eight people assigned as our planning commissioners that have a job to do very independent of us they don't make decisions that we want they make decisions that they need to make at the application when they see it

[10:27:18] Then it comes to us. This doesn't happen here. All week, all month, I've known about this project. I've watched this project. I've talked to the applicants. I definitely receive all your emails. I even get in some text because I know a few of you and your phone calls. And so all of that matters to exactly what Supervisor Vega just said in finding out the right answers.

[10:27:41] one thing i cannot do folks is just simply say no so i have to make sure the issue is mitigating concerns and making sure with the application of a land use that has clearly been vetted through two channels what what else can we do and i need to hear something different tonight that maybe we could add to it that might have been missed so i just want to simply say the process of this It's a very delicate process, and it's not just taken lightly, and it's not something that, as I hear people say, oh, well, they've got money and they can do this, or you're in their pockets or whatever that is.

[10:28:21] None of that, folks. I mean, this is not an easy job, and I will tell you, as long as I'm thorough in the process, I feel good about my decision. I just want to let you know that because end of the day, this is not our first time going through a process like this, but we have to make a decision.

[10:28:39] And one thing I don't believe in is sending things down to a later day and bringing it back. Because one thing is going to happen. When we get to that again, it's going to be the same thing. We still got to make a decision. So thank you all for being here, listening to you all, heard you loud and clear the entire process.

[10:28:59] And so, yeah, I'm ready. Thanks, Madam Chair. All right. Thank you all. And, again, thank you everyone who has stayed here. Someone asked a question. What is the point of a public hearing if you are not hearing us? I want to say that I've heard all of you.

[10:29:16] I hear you. But I really want to speak to the residents, to the fear and the concern that I've heard. You have a lot of fear about your community changing. You have a lot of fear about the environmental impacts, about transportation.

[10:29:33] I hear you, and I hear that fear. I grew up in Roselle, Illinois, which is a part of unincorporated Cook County in Illinois. I was right on the border of Cook County and DuPage County. I lived in a semi-rural area. We only had one acre, but my neighbors, I think they had five acres next to us.

[10:29:51] They had a horse. There was also a horse farmer across the street from me. This was many years ago, so I don't remember if I was high school, junior high. It was a long, long, long, long, long time ago, over 30 years. But there was a church that came to my block. It was St. Mary's Sibian Church.

[10:30:09] It's Eastern Orthodox. And the road that I lived on, Larson Lane, is not Davis Ford Road. It's really a residential street. I remember neighbors had concern about the church, but the church came. And my neighborhood, I actually had a chance to go there.

[10:30:29] I haven't been there for so long because my parents left the area. But I went there in August, and I looked around what used to be my house and my neighbors' houses. area has changed. Not because of the church, not in spite of the church, but despite the church.

[10:30:49] The area grew and changed. The houses that are there are quite expensive. Because again, I've heard fears also when people are talking about their property values, what's going to happen there. I understand the fear. And I hope that some of the facts will alleviate the fear.

[10:31:08] but it does not seem like that is true. And I do want to say to the pastor, you know, you are a shepherd. You are a shepherd. But your flock is larger than your congregation.

[10:31:24] It is the community. And I am asking you to make sure that you are reaching out to the community. I know it is hard. I know that from what you've heard tonight, there are a lot of people who don't want a church in their neighborhood, in their backyard. But I'm going to ask you to look at the entire community as your congregation. I know you will be a good neighbor, but go above and beyond. Go above and beyond. Since everyone's kind of, well, not everyone, but a number of folks are

[10:31:59] quoting scripture. I have to say, the thing in the Bible, the one quote that most stands out to me is 1 Corinthians 16, 14. Let all that you do be done in love. Let all that you do be done in love. And so with that, Reverend, I ask you to please lead the community. Please be the bridge.

[10:32:29] There is a lot of fear in the community where you would like to locate your church. Please be the bridge and understand for the people in the community, the fear is real. The fear of the unknown is real. So I'm asking you to please, it's not that your congregation, your congregation isn't your only flock. It is the community. I will be supporting this, and this is a hard decision.

[10:32:59] I haven't been through this before. I ain't gonna lie. This is the toughest vote I've had to make. This is the toughest decision I've had to see, oversee. And for the residents, again, I hear you. I understand your fear, and I hope that your worst fears do not come to pass. We do not know what the future holds. We do not know what the future holds, and perhaps the church may actually be a blessing for your community let's be open let's be open to what the future holds and so with

[10:33:36] that i don't know if you were cleared from q or not supervisor angry i don't know if you had anything else you're clearing yourself from q let's go ahead let's go ahead and take our vote motion passes five to three supervisors bode weir and gordy voting nay all right and thank you very much to everyone who has come out we are i'm going to give everyone a chance who wants to leave A moment to exit.

[10:34:25] All right, folks, as you exit, I please ask that you show some decorum.

[10:35:10] I'm sorry, if you are exiting, I please ask, because we have a little bit more board business. If you're leaving for the night, I ask that you please leave. I've got a building, Mom.

[10:35:30] I'm done. I've already got an apartment. I don't know what you're waiting on. I'm not going to get it. And I know this was a late night.

[10:35:53] Thank you for everyone who stayed. But if we can, we have a little bit more board business.

[10:36:24] Thank you very much.

[10:36:51] We are moving on to agenda item number 16. And that is public comment time. And that is for people who want to speak about something that is not on the agenda. We have one person who has signed up, one whole person. Ayan Johnson, you stayed.

[10:37:10] Wow. You know how this works. Say your name, where you generally reside. You get three minutes. Oh, I like this. This is fun. And look, and I'm going to try to see. I'm aging myself. Let me make sure I can read my phone. I'm so sorry.

[10:37:27] This font is so small. Okay, let's do this. Oh, this is hilarious. All right. Good morning. My name is Ayan Johnson. I am from the Woodbridge District, and I continue to stand today as an advocate and reminder to select members of the Board of County Supervisors and individuals within Prince William County who would like for you to forget about a child affectionately known as Bumpy.

[10:37:52] I stand before you today on behalf of my family and countless others who've endured systematic injustice, families who may have not had the time, the resources, or the platform to advocate for themselves. Today, I'm here to demand truth. That's a different tone there. Demand truth, accountability, and decisive action. For too long, lies, slanders, and even fraud have prevailed in the interim. But I want to remind you, truth always comes to light. And I do appreciate Mr.

[10:38:23] Gordy there when you were speaking about your faith, because it's never about me getting here in front of the microphone for three minutes talking about myself. I always have to recognize my faith in God. Luke 8, 1 verse 7, pardon me, for nothing is secret that thou shall not be made manifest, neither anything hid that shall not be known and come abroad. I am here to tell you and will continue. No matter how long it takes, the truth will prevail. Lies may seem victorious at the time, which they have for my family for almost three years we've been on this journey, but they

[10:38:58] will crumble under the weight of accountability. That is why, again, I am here to demand accountability. My family has been subjected to profound injustice, but this is bigger than us. It's always been bigger than us. This is about foster children who are overlooked and families who are misrepresented. People who are treated as liabilities, Mr. Shorter, instead of treated as assets. We say the same thing. We are not a liability, Mr. Shorter. We are not a liability.

[10:39:27] Families like ours need to be valued because we are part of this community. I'm calling on each of you. This is no longer just a private meeting that we're going to have with Mr. Shorter and select members of the Department of Social Services because that didn't work. We didn't receive transparency then. I'm calling on each of you, the county executive, Mr. Shorter, the board of county supervisors, the county chair, the county attorney.

[10:39:49] We would love to have you there. We'll pick our best attorney as well. to meet with my family, to hear the truth directly from us, to go over emails, to go over redacted documents. You have the authority and responsibility to conduct a thorough investigation, an impartial investigation that has taken place, and look over the information that will be presented.

[10:40:10] You don't have to be dismissive. You don't have to be naive. Do not allow misinformation from employees within Prince William County Department of Social Services to blind you to the truth. Accountability starts with leadership, and we demand action. It starts with you, Mr. Shorter.

[10:40:27] The time for excuses is over. The time for action is now. We have the power, and you have the power, to ensure that justice and transparency has been served. I'm asking you to exercise your power with integrity. This is not about our family.

[10:40:42] It is about a systematic change, and it starts here with you. Thank you so very much. I'm sorry? Madam Chair. Oh, did you have a comment? No. No, so hold on. I know what you want to do. I just want to verify, do we have anyone? Can you keep him in line, Rebecca?

[10:40:59] Well, I know that's a lot. Hazard pay. We need her. All right. Do we have anyone in line? Move to adjourn. No, no, no. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Supervisor Angry has a quick update. Yeah, just real quick. This afternoon, about 4.30, between 4 and 4.30, we had an OmniRide bus.

[10:41:20] Completely burned up, actually, on the express lane coming south. Good news is it was a deadhead bus with no passengers. The driver is okay, but we did lose the bus. It was a tire that blew, and apparently it got caught up in the axle, caused that rubber friction, caught fire.

[10:41:37] He saw the smoke, pulled over, got out, but the flames took over the bus before the fire and rescue could get there. So we did lose the bus, but no one was injured. So I just want to make the board aware of that situation. Thank you, Madam Chair. Move to adjourn, second.

[10:41:52] All right, let's go ahead and call it a day. Wah, wah, wah. thank you yeah alex woo you need hazard pay you and rebecca

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